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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent coverage.

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Speaker 3: That is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: Let's get to the show. Let's move over to Michigan.

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Speaker 2: And we've been holding this story and there's been some

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Speaker 2: interesting developments actually also where you've seen some Muslim and

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Speaker 2: Arab leaders in Michigan come out and explicitly endorsed Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: You've also seen obviously movement away from the Democratic Party

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Speaker 2: there and it could be a significant effect in the

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Speaker 2: overall Michigan vote because of the Israel Gaza war and

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Speaker 2: Kamala Harris's support for Israel. Here, President Obama took to

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Speaker 2: the stump last night to lecture Muslim Americans about why

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Speaker 2: they should vote for Democrats and for Kamala Harris.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a listen. If you're a.

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Speaker 4: Muslim American and and and you're upset about what's happening

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Speaker 4: in the Middle East? Why why, why would you put

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Speaker 4: your faith in somebody who passed a Muslim band, and

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Speaker 4: and and and repeatedly suggested that somehow you weren't part

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Speaker 4: of our American community. It if you're an African American

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Speaker 4: or Latino, if you're you're from Puerto Rico, and and

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Speaker 4: and you see somebody who whose values seemed to indicate

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Speaker 4: that you're not part of their equation. How do you

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Speaker 4: think it's okay? How how can you tell yourself it's

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Speaker 4: okay as long as our side wins.

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Speaker 2: More lecturing, pandering and uh, hectoring from the Obamas, How

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Speaker 2: will it work out?

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Speaker 1: This doesn't land poorly with I mean, he's basically saying like, look,

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Speaker 1: if you think that you're part of their club, you're not.

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Speaker 1: And they may want your vote right now, but like

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Speaker 1: you know, post election day, you're going to once again

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Speaker 1: not be in the club because we can hear what

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Speaker 1: they're saying about you now and what they've said about

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Speaker 1: you in the past, et cetera. I think Bertie Sanders,

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Speaker 1: he put on a video, what did he say? He

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Speaker 1: made the case. He was like, listen, I get this

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Speaker 1: question all the time about how you can vote for

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris when she supports He doesn't say genocide. I

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Speaker 1: think he says like Israel's Warren Gazer or something like that,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, listen, I'm with you. I also really,

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Speaker 1: you know, disagree with the direction. And he lays on

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Speaker 1: a couple things. Number one, he believes that that Kamala

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Speaker 1: Harris and Joe Biden will be more moveable on the issue.

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Speaker 1: I think there's something to that. I mean the Trump coalition.

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Speaker 1: There's like he is not going to care what college

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Speaker 1: students have to say on the issue. They're not part

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Speaker 1: of his coalition. There is no part of his coalition

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Speaker 1: in significant numbers. That is as to the direction in Israel,

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Speaker 1: Phoebe wants him to win. He's said, you know, he's

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Speaker 1: complained about Biden from the Rights saying he hasn't given

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Speaker 1: Bebe carte blanche enough. So Bernie makes the case that

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Speaker 1: you know, you're going to have more of a chance,

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Speaker 1: even on this issue to move Kamala Harris than you

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Speaker 1: are to move Donald Trump. And then he says this

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Speaker 1: is not to you know, dismiss how important these atrocities

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Speaker 1: are and how much people care about it. But you know,

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Speaker 1: there are another set of issues too, where it's very

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Speaker 1: clear he talks about climate change, he talks about women's rights.

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Speaker 1: I probably talks about economics. I can't remember specifically, on

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Speaker 1: which Kamala Harris is clearly superior. So you know, I

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Speaker 1: get it, I see you. I agree with you in

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Speaker 1: many senses, but this is the path to go down.

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Speaker 1: So that was the case that he's making to me.

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Speaker 1: The takeaway both from Obama's comments here and Bernie Sanders comments,

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Speaker 1: and you know, some of the pastorings from the Democratic Party,

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris I think had some Muslim leaders up on

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Speaker 1: stage with her that were endorsing her in the state

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Speaker 1: of Michigan, is they recognize that this is an issue.

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Speaker 1: And I think they recognize Bernie Sanders comments in particular.

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Speaker 1: Obam is part of what I object to is that

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Speaker 1: he just flip frames it around like this is only

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Speaker 1: an issue for Muslim Americans, which is like, actually, no,

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Speaker 1: it's an issue for a vast swath of your coalition,

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Speaker 1: young people, non white people. Yes, Arab Americans, yes, Muslim

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Speaker 1: Americans too, But you don't have to have a direct

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Speaker 1: like familial or cultural connect to the conflict to care

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Speaker 1: about a genocide being perpetrated with your dollars in and

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Speaker 1: your name. So I sort of object to that framing.

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Speaker 1: But you know, they clearly recognize this is a weak

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Speaker 1: spot for them. They clearly recognize they're having trouble bringing

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Speaker 1: some of their coalition home in the final days because

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Speaker 1: of this one issue. And I think the Harris campaign

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Speaker 1: just fundamentally miscalculated how much of a problem this was

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Speaker 1: for them. On you know, you can't feel like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm supporting the good guys when you see what they're supporting.

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Speaker 1: And so while very few people say this is like

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Speaker 1: their number one issue, it does paint a bigger picture

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Speaker 1: of number one, you care more about this than you

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Speaker 1: do about me, and number two, you're not what you

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Speaker 1: claim you are. Like you say that Donald Trump is

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Speaker 1: the fascist and we got to stop the bad guy,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. And I agree with you, But

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Speaker 1: how can I see you as a white knight when

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Speaker 1: I see what you're enabling in Goalsa?

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Speaker 3: I just see.

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Speaker 2: Look, the direct quote is you know what xs Trump

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Speaker 2: is worse and that pragmatism in what is obviously deeply

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Speaker 2: emotional and I mean, look, let's restrict it purely he's

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Speaker 2: talking about Mostlim Americans in Michigan and specifically like Dearborn

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Speaker 2: and others where you may literally have people who have

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Speaker 2: lost family members.

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Speaker 3: Pragmatism is not wanting to hear right now. That's why

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Speaker 3: I saw it.

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Speaker 2: Very much as kind of hectoring, lecturing, well, the other

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Speaker 2: side is worse.

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Speaker 3: I think that works on abortion.

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Speaker 2: I think that works on that economy, On a family's

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Speaker 2: member's death, I don't think so. You know, that is

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Speaker 2: where just straight up not voting or voting for punishments purposes.

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Speaker 2: That's where things can get very different. And you see

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Speaker 2: some of this too with the Muslim support now for

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump. We saw this at one of his more

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Speaker 2: recent rallies in Michigan. Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 5: Good afternoon, Michigan Anders. As the President said, we just

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Speaker 5: had a positive meeting with President Trump. We as Muslims,

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Speaker 5: stand with President Trump because he promises peace. He promises peace,

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Speaker 5: not war. We are supporting Donald Trump because he promised

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Speaker 5: and war in the Middle East and Ukraine. The bloodshed

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Speaker 5: has to stop all over the world, and I think

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Speaker 5: this man can make that happen.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's basically Hail Mary you know, from these

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Speaker 2: Muslim leaders and actually can consistently and throughout Michigan through

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Speaker 2: these rallies and others. He keeps bringing up the Cheney

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Speaker 2: family and he's like, she is running with somebody who's

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Speaker 2: responsible for more deaths of Muslim ortant.

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Speaker 3: You know, their family.

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Speaker 2: Dictaney, I guess is responsible for more Muslim deaths and

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Speaker 2: any American politician in all of history. So how can

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Speaker 2: you support someone like our Now, look, you can make

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Speaker 2: the pragmatis argument, well Trump is more pro Israel and

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Speaker 2: all of this, but it does seem as if this

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Speaker 2: is cutting through. We saw what the semaphore pole Arab

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Speaker 2: Americans supporting Trump by one point margin, basically a tie

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Speaker 2: with a group that voted two three times you know

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Speaker 2: for Biden versus Trump. So clearly something is going on.

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Speaker 2: I think it really comes down to like a hail Mary.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like I remember when Trump I was twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 2: he was talking to black voters.

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Speaker 3: He's like, what the hell do you have to lose?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 3: I mean that's basically how it feels. Clearly it's landing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what listen, I can say which is true, that

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Speaker 1: is performative and cynical, which it is. And we'll show

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Speaker 1: you some of the comments from the you know, Madison

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Speaker 1: Square Garden rally that proved the point. But if you're

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Speaker 1: the Democratic Party and you've managed to lose the Arab

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Speaker 1: American Muslim American vote to the Muslim band, people like

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Speaker 1: that's unbelievable. That's honestly unbelievable. In fact, let's go in

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Speaker 1: queue up. This is D six. This is Rudy Giuliani

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Speaker 1: at the Madison Square Garden rally, framing all Palestinians from

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Speaker 1: the age of two years old as being terrorists, which,

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Speaker 1: by the way, you know, it's consistent with language. Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump has used the term Palestinian as a flur to

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Speaker 1: describe various people, including Chuck Schumer. But you know this

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Speaker 1: is this is the party, this is the representative of

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Speaker 1: the party that you were losing the Arab American vote to.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to this.

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Speaker 6: And the Palestinians are taught to tell us at two

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Speaker 6: years old, they won't let a Palestinian in Jordan, they

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Speaker 6: will let a Palestinian in Egypt. And Harris wants to

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Speaker 6: bring them to you.

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Speaker 3: They may have good people.

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Speaker 6: I'm sorry, I don't take a risk with people that

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Speaker 6: are taught to kill Americans at two.

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Speaker 3: I'm on the side of Israel. You're on the side

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Speaker 3: of Israel.

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Speaker 6: Donald Trump's on the side of Israel, and they're on

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Speaker 6: the side.

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Speaker 3: Of the terrorists.

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Speaker 1: Of course, an incredible thing to say.

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Speaker 3: Get me set you out of two thousand and three.

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Speaker 1: How many yeah, true? How many two year old Palestinians

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Speaker 1: are laying dead in the rubble right now as we speak.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, this is this is the party that you're

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Speaker 1: losing the Muslim vote to the Arab American vote to

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Speaker 1: in particular like that is extraordinary. I can also point out,

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Speaker 1: as I have before, I do think that Trump is

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Speaker 1: worse on the issue. I think because of his coalition.

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Speaker 1: I think because of his you know, past record in office.

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Speaker 1: I think because of the money that he takes from

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Speaker 1: Miriam Maddilson. I think because of his own words. He

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Speaker 1: was out there encouraging Israel to bomb Around's nuclear sites

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Speaker 1: and really spark World War three. I can tell you

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Speaker 1: all of this, but I also have to say very

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Speaker 1: clearly it is a manifest and obvious and blatant Democratic

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Speaker 1: Party failure that has led to it even being a

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Speaker 1: question that you would support, you know, the party that

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Speaker 1: this is their messaging at their big closing Madison Square Garden.

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Speaker 2: Rau as I said yesterday, the Trump coalition is a

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Speaker 2: big tent for grievance and that is basically what holds

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Speaker 2: the entire thing together. I mean, that's why it logically

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Speaker 2: makes sense to have an RFK junior at Tulsea Gabbert,

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Speaker 2: a Tom Cotton, a Mike Pompeo, all within the same thing.

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Speaker 2: And now these Muslim leaders, it is basically a hail Mary.

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Speaker 2: The current system is not working and there has been

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Speaker 2: I mean, the other reason why I kind of get it,

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Speaker 2: and maybe even in terms of them trying to leverage

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Speaker 2: it is just the disrespect that they have been treated with.

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Speaker 2: So for example, let's put what is it, D two

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Speaker 2: please up on the screen. You had this Muslim community

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Speaker 2: leader who was literally ejected from a Kamala Harris rally

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Speaker 2: in Troit.

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Speaker 3: What was that?

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Speaker 2: It was on October twenty fifth, just some couple of

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Speaker 2: days ago. He attended the invite only event. It was

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Speaker 2: in Royal Oak, Michigan, excited to hear from Harris Liz Cheney.

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Speaker 2: He went through security checkpoints, sat down on his seat

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Speaker 2: was answering emails. Ten minutes later, staffers from the Harris

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Speaker 2: campaign came to his seat and asked him to step

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Speaker 2: to the back. He was asked to leave the venue,

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Speaker 2: told by authorities if he didn't leave that he would

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Speaker 2: be arrested. So he was literally invited then kicked out.

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Speaker 2: They assumed, I guess that he was going to be

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Speaker 2: either asking a critical question or was going to speak

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Speaker 2: out against both Gaza and or Liz Chang.

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Speaker 1: No racially profiled him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they were like, oh, there was an Arab dude here.

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Speaker 1: Got to get out of a protester.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, what kind of bullshit you know? Can you?

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Speaker 7: Then?

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Speaker 2: That's kind of what I mean I talked about with

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Speaker 2: the Latino thing earlier. When you have that level of

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Speaker 2: like rhetoric on one level and then action on another,

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Speaker 2: some people just want to burn it all down. That's

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Speaker 2: what I think a lot of this Trump support is now.

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Speaker 2: Ro Kanna has been trying to clean this up. We

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Speaker 2: can put the one up on the screen. D three, please,

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Speaker 2: he said, I invited doctor Ganim for a delicious Yemeny meal.

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Speaker 3: It does look delicious.

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Speaker 2: Let him know that he is absolutely welcoming the Democratic

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Speaker 2: Party and he never should have been removed from the

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Speaker 2: Harris event.

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Speaker 3: But you know, the row on janitorial duty is just

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Speaker 3: not going to cut it.

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Speaker 2: It's just not And you know I talked about Dearborn.

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Speaker 2: Let's put that one next.

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Speaker 3: Please. Here you have Abdullah Hamoud.

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Speaker 2: He's the mayor of Deborn, Michigan, and he says Dearborn

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Speaker 2: specifically said he is not endorsing. I am not here

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Speaker 2: to endorse any single candidate. He said people should vote

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Speaker 2: their conscience, and he said we cannot condone any present

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Speaker 2: that uplifts, any administration that bombs every school, decimating children

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Speaker 2: to smithereens. That is the message we have and those

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Speaker 2: are the values we will take with us through November.

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Speaker 2: So if you put Stein vote plus Trump vote there together,

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Speaker 2: you're looking for a real upset. And you know, I mean,

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Speaker 2: in a certain sense, I understand it. I understand it

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Speaker 2: as much as I understand Latino support or any of

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Speaker 2: the other I talked about the MAGA rally and as

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Speaker 2: gene like what it really it's about to screw you,

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Speaker 2: fuck you, you know, basically to higher institutions. And there's

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Speaker 2: no reason why Arab Americans and Muslim Americans would not

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Speaker 2: feel the same way as people in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 3: Wis Conciner mission.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I I'm the message there from the

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Speaker 1: dear born mayor who we've had on this program a

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Speaker 1: number of times, and it has been a thoughtful and

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Speaker 1: open minded critic I think from the beginning, like, how

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Speaker 1: can you tell people that they have to or coerce

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Speaker 1: them into voting when they see what's going on. So

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Speaker 1: you know, the thing we put up briefly was Rokanna saying,

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Speaker 1: I'll look at these cynical billboards tying layers and listen,

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Speaker 1: that's not cynical.

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Speaker 3: It's true.

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Speaker 1: You are campaigning with her like, so you know they're

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Speaker 1: running around together doing joint town halls. You yourselves are

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Speaker 1: trying to tie them together. Now you recognize that it's

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Speaker 1: opened up an area of exploitation from the Trump campaign, like,

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Speaker 1: of course they're going to walk through that when you know, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's cynical, sure, but it's also totally predictable. And the

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Speaker 1: possibility that you opened up directly for them to be

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Speaker 1: able to say.

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Speaker 2: Let's move on to Elon Musk, let's gohead and put

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Speaker 2: this up there on the screen. We brought you previously

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Speaker 2: the story of one million dollar checks being handed out

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Speaker 2: at these events every single day until election day by

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Speaker 2: Elon Musk. You now have the Philadelphia DA Larry Krasner.

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Speaker 2: Those of you might remember him from some of the

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Speaker 2: previous consternations around SOROSDA or whatever. He survived election there,

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Speaker 2: but he is now suing to halt the one million

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Speaker 2: dollar giveaway that was after Josh Shapiro, the governor of

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Speaker 2: the state, said that law enforcement should look into it.

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Speaker 2: The suit filed in Philadelphia Common Police Court first legal

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Speaker 2: action there, and what it comes down to is it

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Speaker 2: grants Krasner, the prosecutor, the opportunity to basically investigate, to

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Speaker 2: quote take on Musk and to block this one million

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Speaker 2: dollar type giveaway. The thing is, though, is that currently

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Speaker 2: they said that they have already committed to extending this

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Speaker 2: through election on November five, they're claiming that this must

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Speaker 2: be stopped immediately. The background of it is twofold. One

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Speaker 2: is that they're basically alleging it's an illegal lottery scheme

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Speaker 2: to influence the election. So people should go watch maybe

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Speaker 2: our previous segment on this, But it all comes down

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Speaker 2: to whether vote it's illegal lottery and two if it

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Speaker 2: is a coercion to register to votes, because the current

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Speaker 2: statute of the US Criminal Code says it is blatantly

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Speaker 2: illegal to pay people to register them for vote. He

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Speaker 2: is claiming, well, you have to be registered to vote

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Speaker 2: to be able to sign this petition.

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Speaker 3: This petition is.

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Speaker 2: In favor of what is the first Amendment or free

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Speaker 2: speech or I think whatever, first and second amendment.

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Speaker 3: Okay, fine, So if it was just that, then okay.

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Speaker 2: But because of the preconditions for being able to sign

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Speaker 2: the petition, you have effectively created a new lottery scheme

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Speaker 2: to get around voter registration. Is an actually interesting case

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Speaker 2: in terms of how these laws should be applied and

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Speaker 2: the actual interpretation. It's somewhere in the gray area as

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Speaker 2: I understand it.

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Speaker 1: I don't yeah, I don't know. I think at the

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Speaker 1: federal level it's actually more clear because there is a

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Speaker 1: federal election law prohibition on inducing people to register using money,

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Speaker 1: favors whatever, and I mean election lawyers seem to feel

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Speaker 1: like this pretty clearly meets that standard definition. Who knows

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Speaker 1: how it gets, you know, litigated. The catch here for

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Speaker 1: Krasner is that he has to operate on Pennsylvania state law,

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Speaker 1: which does not have a prohibition against inducing people to

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Speaker 1: register to vote. So that's why he's using the like

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Speaker 1: you're running an illegal lottery and not following the rules,

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Speaker 1: like only the state can run lottery number one, number two.

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Speaker 1: You're not even following like the legal requirements for running

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Speaker 1: a lottery.

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Speaker 3: So that's the.

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Speaker 1: Direction he's going in with this lawsuit. So we'll see where,

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Speaker 1: you know, where this goes and if it has any

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Speaker 1: impact the I know, when we looked at the federal law,

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Speaker 1: the punishment was like a ten thousand dollars find. Yeah, surely, well,

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Speaker 1: it's not gonna be sweating that.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't really matter.

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Speaker 1: Not gonna be sweating that too much. Yeah, we've been

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Speaker 1: wanting to talk though a little bit about So Elon

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Speaker 1: is running a significant part of the ground game for Trump,

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Speaker 1: the field operation you know that goes and knots on

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Speaker 1: doors and tries to turn out voters early, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, and tracks them how much are they supporting

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Speaker 1: Trump or are they on the other team side, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. So the sort of like classic field canvassing operation,

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Speaker 1: A lot of that has fallen too. Elon Musk's super pack,

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Speaker 1: specifically in the state of Pennsylvania. Guardian has been digging

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Speaker 1: into the reality of the situation, the FKC of this situation,

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Speaker 1: and they had previously were ported to put this up

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Speaker 1: on the screen that counterpoints cover this briefly that they

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Speaker 1: are appear to be getting a lot of quote unquote

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Speaker 1: fraudulent door knocks, meaning that they're paying canvassers to go

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Speaker 1: out and knock doors for the Trump campaign, and that

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Speaker 1: actually almost always runs into problems because these are not

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Speaker 1: people who are true believers. They're just they're trying to

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Speaker 1: get a paycheck, and there are lots of ways that

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Speaker 1: you can cheat and make it seem like you're knocking

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Speaker 1: on those doors, but really you're just filling in your

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Speaker 1: app like, yeah, I totally talked to Mary Smith and

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Speaker 1: she's on team Trump, and don't worry, she voted already,

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Speaker 1: even though you're just sitting at home in your living

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Speaker 1: room or standing on the street or whatever. Because I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you guys have ever gone out canvassing,

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Speaker 1: but it is a little bit like it's you know,

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Speaker 1: it takes a certain personality right to go and knock

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Speaker 1: on a stranger's door, and like prosblytize because I'm about Canada.

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Speaker 2: If they're on your side, I mean, look, I don't

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Speaker 2: know about you. For me, I just stare at my

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Speaker 2: ring camera until somebody leaves, regardless to whether it's politics.

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Speaker 1: Nobody tells them my door where I live, Please don't knock.

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Speaker 1: I live in all of nowhere.

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Speaker 2: I should if I really had the strength, I would

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Speaker 2: put the no solicitors sign up, which but that's a

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Speaker 2: whole other level of Karen.

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Speaker 3: You don't want to go there.

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Speaker 1: So in any case, already indications that some twenty five

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Speaker 1: percent roughly of the door knocks that are being you know,

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Speaker 1: conducted on behalf of you on super pac are probably fraudulent.

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Speaker 1: And now we've got new documentation. Put this up on

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Speaker 1: the screen. Guardian got their hands on a video that

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Speaker 1: is meant to show other canvassers four Musks Superpack how

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Speaker 1: to cheat, specifically using like GPS spoofing, and this went

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Speaker 1: out to hundreds of canvassers like listen, here's how you

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Speaker 1: do it. You pull up the map, you pull up

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Speaker 1: this app, you click on the house. Then it thinks

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Speaker 1: that you're in the place. Because obviously these canvassing operations

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Speaker 1: they are aware of the fact that people like to

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Speaker 1: cheat on this and not actually go and knock on

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Speaker 1: the doors, so they put in place mechanisms like GPS

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Speaker 1: tracking to try to make sure you're actually knocking on

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Speaker 1: the doors that you say that you're knocking on. And

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Speaker 1: this is a video how to guide of how to

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Speaker 1: get around that. We don't know how widely it was disseminated,

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Speaker 1: how many people were using these tricks, etc. But another

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Speaker 1: indication that perhaps the door knocks are not happening in

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Speaker 1: the way that the Trump people would like them to

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Speaker 1: be happening. It's funny in the video they have a

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Speaker 1: quote from and they say, okay, so here's the part

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Speaker 1: the matter. You click the house you want to do

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Speaker 1: not home for about five houses, so you click the

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Speaker 1: not home shit left literature bo boom, and then you

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Speaker 1: want to put a survey in. This is the survey.

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Speaker 1: You click available for survey. This is what I do.

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Speaker 1: I clicked definitely yes, Donald Trump, early vote no and survey.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty much that simple. So they're telling you not

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Speaker 1: only how to do the GPS boothing, but then also

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Speaker 1: how to fake the data in a way that doesn't

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Speaker 1: flag that you're fraudulently mentoring this.

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Speaker 2: This is the problem with outsourcing the ground game, actually,

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Speaker 2: and that's going to be the biggest one.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I'm surprised by the decision from them because I know

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Speaker 2: a lot of people who worked at the R and

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Speaker 2: C over the years, and one of the things that

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Speaker 2: they were always so proud of was the pre eminence

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Speaker 2: of their ground game, of investment in their technology of

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Speaker 2: door knocking. This was a big story in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: What happened in twenty twenty is a Trump campaign. The

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Speaker 2: RNC had a joint fund, so it basically was a

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Speaker 2: joint operation and they invested a lot in technology. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: door knocking was less during COVID, but this time by

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Speaker 2: outsourcing it to Elon. This also demonstrates the problem with

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Speaker 2: the pay to play model of basically paying people to

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Speaker 2: canvas because if you think about it too, you know,

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Speaker 2: canvassers you got to be.

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Speaker 3: Pretty bought it. It's a shitty job.

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Speaker 2: And then yeah, you can pay them to do it,

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Speaker 2: but that leads to even if you knock on your

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Speaker 2: door and there's not enthusiasm, you're not engaging with them,

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Speaker 2: sure it's going to be a lot less likely to

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Speaker 2: come out, and then you've got people who are just

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Speaker 2: in this for a free paycheck, you know, basically out there.

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Speaker 3: This is classic in every election.

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Speaker 2: There's just people, you know, like seasonal workers who are

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Speaker 2: just always out there looking for a buck of like, oh,

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Speaker 2: you want me to go handout signs? Cool, you know,

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Speaker 2: ten dollars an hour, easy money. And so I think

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Speaker 2: you could see some of that there. But if you

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Speaker 2: do see a Pennsylvania loss, this could certainly come I mean,

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Speaker 2: especially within the margin, this would be a big problem.

437
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 3: And this would be a lesson for elections.

438
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 2: Do not outsource this stuff outside of your control because

439
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 2: you know, even with the super pack, because of the

440
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 2: way that the laws work, you can't talk to each

441
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 2: other directly, you can't cross off you know, your own numbers,

442
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,120
Speaker 2: like you have a lot less institutional ability to see

443
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 2: where you're at there in PA. This presumes that any

444
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 2: of the stuff actually matters, which I still remain skeptical.

445
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, whether.

446
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,159
Speaker 1: This is one of those stories wanted to cover just

447
00:21:58,160 --> 00:21:59,840
Speaker 1: to put a pin in it. If at the end

448
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 1: of the Trump people don't turn out their people at

449
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: the same level, because we do know and Weigel confirmed

450
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,400
Speaker 1: this for us too. He was on the ground door

451
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 1: knocking with Democrats in Wisconsin. He said, the Trump side

452
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,000
Speaker 1: has a much less organized operation. The Democrats are much

453
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: more organized in terms of their field canvassing turn out.

454
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,439
Speaker 1: You know, field organizers claimate can move the election result

455
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,160
Speaker 1: by a couple of points. So, you know, if that's

456
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,120
Speaker 1: if that's the story post election day, then we may

457
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 1: look back at this and say, like, oh, this was

458
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: more of a problem for the Trump people. Then maybe

459
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: it seemed at the time, and perhaps don't outsource a

460
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 1: key function of the campaign. Then again, to your point,

461
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 1: it's not like the Trump campaign has ever taken canvassing

462
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 1: all that seriously, and they've done pretty well in the

463
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 1: past exactly.

464
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:44,959
Speaker 3: So that's right.

465
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 2: I always come, you know, these political consultants. They want

466
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 2: to convince you that the swing state ads matter. They

467
00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 2: want to say ground game.

468
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 3: I don't. I'm not sure I buy it anymore.

469
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 2: I think in the nationalization, the celebritization of politics, I

470
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 2: think it's all just you know, a to the national media,

471
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,359
Speaker 2: the vibe. You know, things that could like, for example,

472
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 2: if Kamala loses the election, how much of it is

473
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:09,280
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris, how much of it is just Joe Biden

474
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, You know, I mean probably a huge part.

475
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 2: Was there anything you could really do? Probably not same

476
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 2: with terms of Trump. Maybe the election was cooked on

477
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 2: the day of January seventh, right for Donald Trump, certainly

478
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 2: box could. Let's move on to a Washington Post. Let's

479
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 2: put this up there on the score. We had to

480
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 2: put this.

481
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 3: This is this. I'm more relish in this, folks. Let's

482
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 3: put this up there on the screen.

483
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 2: Over two hundred thousand subscribers have canceled their Washington Post

484
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: subscription after Jeff Bezos blocked a Kamala Harris endorsement. Now,

485
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 2: for context, there are roughly two point five million subscribers

486
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 2: at the Washington Post. That means about eight to ten

487
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 2: percent of those people have now canceled. Keep in mind,

488
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 2: this two hundred thousand figure was as of yesterday. Almost

489
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: certainly even more and people are going to pile on

490
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 2: after this news came out. But more importantly, you should

491
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 2: know that the Post boasted about netting only four thousand

492
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 2: new subscribers to the Washington Post in just the last

493
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 2: calendar year, meaning what is that fifty times?

494
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 3: Am I doing that?

495
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 8: Math?

496
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 3: Is it five hundred times? In terms of the big.

497
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 2: Versus the people that they gained, and he was already

498
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 2: losing one hundred million a year operating the paper.

499
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 3: So yeah, And you know, I've seen people out there

500
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 3: be like, well, this just shows people don't want unbiased

501
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 3: news and ba bl I'm like, okay, listen, I'm not

502
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 3: disagreeing with you.

503
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 2: But at the same time, they sold bound copies of

504
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,879
Speaker 2: the Mother Report. They put democracy dyes in darkness on

505
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 2: their freaking subhead masththead. They sold the tote bag New

506
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 2: Yorker vision to everybody here in Washington about standing up

507
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 2: to Donald Trump, about being the heart of the resistance.

508
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 2: They hired Robert Kagan, they hired Jennifer Ruby that can

509
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 2: go on forever at Max boot, all these other folks

510
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 2: to give them columns to build them up. They were

511
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 2: the beating heart of Russiagate. They were the beating heart

512
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: of resistance. So when you sell that vision to people,

513
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 2: how can you blame them for canceling. I'm not mad

514
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: at these libs for canceling, because look, nobody subscribed to

515
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 2: the Post for news. Okay, nobody. It's not the best newspaper,

516
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: hasn't been for a long time. They do it for

517
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 2: the vibe, and so when you explicitly turn that on

518
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 2: a dime, yeah, you should cancel it. I'm gonna defend

519
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: all these resistance liberals.

520
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 1: I subscribe to the Washing Post for yes, okay, all right.

521
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean I feel bad. I've got beyond Jeff.

522
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 3: I have a lot of people, I have a lot

523
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: of friends who actually work there.

524
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 2: So I feel bad saying this because frankly they're probably

525
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: in jeopardy now.

526
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 3: But you know, at a pure media level, this.

527
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: Is also the problem with having a freaking fickle billionaire

528
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: owner at the top end point.

529
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 3: That's how it goes on.

530
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 1: If you think, if you genuinely think Jeff Bezos made

531
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: this move a week before election day out of his principles,

532
00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: which is what he's biased coverage like I of bridge

533
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: to sell you, that is not what's going on here.

534
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: He obviously, recognizing what a massive catastrophe this is for

535
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: the paper and how much damage has been done, he

536
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: scrambled and put together his own op ed which ran

537
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 1: in his own paper, where he clearly you know, has

538
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 1: a lot of influence and directs coverage, and he claims,

539
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: I think preposterously that this had nothing to do with

540
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,439
Speaker 1: his own massive corporate interests, both at Amazon and at

541
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 1: Blue Origin, both of which get huge federal government contracts.

542
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: Blue Origin, I believe. I think it was Blue Origin

543
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: last time around was punished by Trump. You know, he's

544
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: looking at the landscape as like Trump could win and

545
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: I don't want my shit to be canceled. Was it

546
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: Amazon the cloud that's cloud contract.

547
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: It's kind of complicated because yes, Trump did seek to

548
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 2: punish them, but also Amazon was not the best bidder

549
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 2: in that contract. So I actually looked a lot into this.

550
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 2: It is a big problem because we're talking about ten

551
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 2: billion dollars. Whether it's on between Microsoft and Amazon, I

552
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: don't think other of them should have got it actually,

553
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 2: because it just was more like big tech like basically

554
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: stopsody from the federal government. But yeah, Trump tried to

555
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 2: intervene against Amazons.

556
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 3: Yes, they ended up succesfully suing a court though, so

557
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 3: it's not like it didn't work.

558
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 1: But he's looking the landscape. He wants to hedge his bets,

559
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: and he says, oh, it was just it was just

560
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: an accident that the Blue Origin executives met with Trump

561
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 1: literally that same day.

562
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, he claimed he had no idea. I mean,

563
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 3: maybe he didn't.

564
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 2: But what's funny is that it doesn't even matter if

565
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 2: he didn't because he still has a direct financial interest

566
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 2: in that happening.

567
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 3: Right.

568
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,719
Speaker 1: So, and you're going to tell me that you really

569
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: came to this rock solid, bedrock principle a week before election.

570
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't believe that just purely out.

571
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: Of disinterested, you know, ideology that you're in favor. Come on.

572
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 1: Derek Thompson was tweeting about this. He was like, anytime

573
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: someone's you know, newfound principle happens to align with their

574
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: own personal financial self interest, you should probably be pretty

575
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: skeptical of that. But we can put Jeff's ap ed

576
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: up on the screen and like I said, some of

577
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: this is really wild. But he says, I wish we'd

578
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: made the change earlier than we did, in a moment

579
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: further from the election, the emotions around it. That was

580
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: inadequate planning, not some intentional strategy. He also says, when

581
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: it comes to the appearance of conflict, I am not

582
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: an ideal owner of the post. Oh you think every

583
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: day somewhere some Amazon executive or Blue Origin executive or

584
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: someone from the other philanthropies and companies. I owner invest

585
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 1: in is meeting with government officials. Yeah, that's the problem.

586
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 1: I once wrote that the Post is a complexifier for me.

587
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: It is, but it turns out I'm also a complexifier

588
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: for the Post. So really the real victim in all

589
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: of the soccer.

590
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 3: Is actually it's actually Bezos.

591
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 2: In the words of Charlie Munger, show me the incentive

592
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 2: and I'll show you the outcome. And look, if you

593
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: read through this op ed, it's bullshit. I mean, Jeff

594
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 2: Bezos bought the Post in twenty twenty three. He has

595
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 2: invested probably over half a billion dollars into the enterprise

596
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 2: and it loses money. Now, the main reason why I

597
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 2: don't believe him, like you just said with the Derek

598
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 2: Thompson thing, is he was perfectly fine whenever it was

599
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 2: democracy dies in the darkness.

600
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 3: And they were making a lot of money.

601
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: But also when it seems to possibly clash with his

602
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 2: own massive one hundred billion or two hundred billion dollar

603
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: wealth or whatever it is, now it's worth maybe taking

604
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: that hit there to make sure that the stock price

605
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 2: and other financial incentives over here don't How exactly did

606
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 2: these principles not flare up when you were literally the

607
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 2: home of Russia Gate. Like, spare me, that's that's exactly

608
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 2: how I feel. You gave a one hundred million dollars

609
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 2: to the Obama Foundation. You're giving these genius grants to

610
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: Van Jones and all that. When it was very popular

611
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 2: and safe to be a Democrat. Now, whenever you're looking

612
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 2: at it differently and perhaps that there is a democratic

613
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 2: move for antitrust, now you're changing your position. But whenever

614
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: big business the Democratic Party was there, you were happily.

615
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 3: Many people don't know this. He owns the largest house.

616
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: Here in Washington, DC, and it was for one specific

617
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 2: purpose to hold salon parties, to go to the gridiron,

618
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: and specifically to become like the gathering place for the

619
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 2: Washington elite where Republicans and Democrats are often seen coming

620
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: in and out for dinner. What do you think you

621
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 2: think that's for social reasons? Like, come on, this is

622
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 2: the tale as old as time.

623
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's always been this way.

624
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, absolutely, And you know, basically, Bernie was right

625
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: when he said it's a problem that this guy owns

626
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: the Post. It impacts their coverage, it's a conflict of interest,

627
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: It is all of those things. And you know, I

628
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: think it's really precious if you're someone out there who

629
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: thinks this billionaire oligarc with a raft of federal government

630
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: contracts is really just taking a principled stand. At this

631
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: point in favor of not making endorsement, we had one

632
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: other quick media story we wanted to sneak in here,

633
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: even though it's already a long show and I still

634
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,239
Speaker 1: have a monologue to do. But obviously Donald Trump went

635
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: on with Joe Rogan. Rogan in that interview we showed you,

636
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: Trump brought up Kammlin. Rogan kind defended her and was like, no,

637
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: I still want to have a conversation with her, Like

638
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: I'm still hoping that may happen. He tweeted this out

639
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: as an update. He says, for the record, the Harris

640
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: campaign has not passed on doing the podcast. They offered

641
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: a date for Tuesday, but I would have had to

642
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: travel to her. They only wanted to do an hour.

643
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: I strongly feel the best way to do it is

644
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: in the studio in Austin. My sincere wish is to

645
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: just have a nice conversation, get to know her as

646
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: a human being. I really hope we can make it happen.

647
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: What's your reaction, Soccer.

648
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 3: Well, twofold.

649
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: I get him wanting to do it in the studio

650
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: in Austin, but with this close to the election, it

651
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 2: may not be possible, and it would be worth in

652
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: my opinion, compromising a little bit on that. In terms

653
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 2: of time, Trump went for three hours. I think that's

654
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 2: great if Harris could do it, but you know, he

655
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 2: did have Bernie Sanders on. I looked what was it

656
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: wasn't in only an hour, so there is press.

657
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, for only.

658
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: An shorter political interview.

659
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: I mean it does show a sign of weakness. If

660
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 2: they only want to do an hour, I think they

661
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 2: should just do the three and just eat it. I

662
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: mean I looked at her schedules. She's got five interviews today, right,

663
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: so it's probably worth you know, I would say that

664
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: this one interview is worth three. Whatever local television news hits.

665
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: They're obviously nervous. They want to cover their basis. That

666
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: said Joe in his after action report on a fight

667
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: Companion was asked about common He was like, if they

668
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: want preconditions and they don't want to bring up policy,

669
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: that's fine. I'm interested in talking to her as a

670
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 2: human being. Now, I actually I think it's worth meditating

671
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 2: on this, and maybe you tell me. I was talking

672
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: with one of my friends. I'm actually not interested in

673
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 2: politicians as a human being.

674
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 3: I have read. I'm serious. Let me lay up my case.

675
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: I kind of agree here.

676
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: So my political heroes were terrible people, absolutely awful. LBJ,

677
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 2: who I believe is the single most effective politician of

678
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 2: all time, rampantly cheated on his wife, was a virulent

679
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 2: personal racist, often denigrated his female staff to the point

680
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: of tears, took a shit, and forced his aids to

681
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: transcribe his notes.

682
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,959
Speaker 3: That's a bad person. John F. Kennedy.

683
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,239
Speaker 2: I mean, go read about a nineteen year old girl

684
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 2: who was White House intern and what she alleges happened

685
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 2: with him. And that's one girl out of probably hundreds.

686
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 2: FDR humiliated Eleanor Roosevelt by sleeping with his secretary, refusing

687
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 2: to fire her, and he died with her, not with

688
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 2: his own wife.

689
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 3: Didn't care. I mean, I could go on for Teddy Roosevelt.

690
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 2: He loses his wife and his mom on the same

691
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: day that his child is born, takes his daughter, parks

692
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 2: it with his sister and says, hey, good luck, I'm

693
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 2: going to South Dakota for three years.

694
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 3: A lot of these people, they're not good people.

695
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 2: Now, I don't really care about that on one level,

696
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: because they did a lot of good for the country.

697
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 2: So how does it affect my life? How does it

698
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: affect the you know, the trajectory of the country. Does

699
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: it matter if FDR or sorry LBJ was a frequent

700
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 2: N word user, if he passedes Still Rights Act. If

701
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 2: you're a black person, I would leave that up to you.

702
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 2: And that's kind of my point is like, I don't

703
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 2: think that the psychology of what it takes to be

704
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 2: president or to even get to the level of Kamma

705
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: or Trump produces.

706
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 3: Quote unquote good people. I also don't care about that.

707
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 2: So that's where there's a little bit of a flaw

708
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 2: in terms of, like I want to see who they

709
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 2: are as people. I'm like, I don't. I'm not all

710
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: that interested in who you are as people, as a

711
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 2: voter or as a citizen. I want to know what

712
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 2: you're gonna do for me. And maybe that's a very

713
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 2: cynical people often say Indian immigrant way of looking at it,

714
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 2: But I mean, I've just read too much. I mean,

715
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 2: for example, Barack Obama, if you read Michelle Obama's memoirs

716
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 2: and his He openly admits that Michelle never wanted him

717
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 2: to run for Congress for Senate. Specifically, he filed without

718
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 2: really telling her. She is furious to the point of

719
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 2: thinking about divorcing him, miserable for eight years in the

720
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: White House.

721
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm gonna ask you, I can't imagine treating

722
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 3: my wife that way. Ever, if she told me I

723
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 3: don't want to do this, it's over. It doesn't matter.

724
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 2: Imagine yourself in a marriage, as a family unit, treating

725
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 2: your spouse that way with your own ambition. I mean,

726
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 2: I think that's sick and honestly gross, but that's kind

727
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 2: of what it takes to suffer through all of this.

728
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 2: So that's just a long way of saying, like, I

729
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 2: don't care who.

730
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 3: These people are. The more I know, the worst that

731
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 3: it gets.

732
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: I guess we'll take a moderate path on this, because,

733
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: like you know, with Kamala in particular, there's this really

734
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 1: very open, continued open question of like what makes you

735
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 1: like what? Because it translates into I don't think the

736
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: personal and the public are totally separate, because it translates

737
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: into is there something core here that you're going to

738
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,919
Speaker 1: fight for you know, And so that's why I think

739
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,240
Speaker 1: there is something to be learned, something to be gained

740
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: with regard to specifically. At this point, I don't even

741
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: think that there's much benefit for Kamala Harris to go

742
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: on Rogan's pod like at des late in the game.

743
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,919
Speaker 1: His audience is overwhelmingly pro Trump. They have a they

744
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: are clips, They are happy, but they're happy with the

745
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 1: meta narrative that's in place right now, which is like

746
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: Trump had his like Carnival of bracest at Madison Square

747
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: Garden and you know, that's kind of they're happy to

748
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: close on that note, it would be too close to

749
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 1: election day if there was some screw up from her,

750
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: which we should all be very like, like, that's very possible,

751
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: you know, that she would have a moment that was

752
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: really bad for her, So they'd be too close to

753
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 1: election day to clean that up. It would shift the

754
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: narrative into you know, potentially more fraud or risky territory.

755
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: And so if she had done it earlier on, I

756
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: think it could have made some sense. But as I

757
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: said to you previously when we were talking about the

758
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: roguan Trump, and are you like she already did her

759
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: go in the lions Den thing with Brett Baer, She

760
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: already proved some level of like I can go into

761
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: a space that's someone hostile and I can hold my own.

762
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: So I'm just not sure how much there is to

763
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: be gained from an appearance, and it does have significant

764
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 1: risk at this point. So I understand why they're kind

765
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: of like, Eh, maybe this isn't worth making it happen.

766
00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 3: I think here's why I think it's worth it.

767
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,720
Speaker 2: Why not would be a challenge coming in after Trump,

768
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 2: It would be a position of strength. It would also

769
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 2: I mean, especially if Joe literally said, if they don't

770
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 2: want to talk about policy, then that's fine.

771
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 3: I mean, she's going to be.

772
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 1: Honest with you. She does the worst when she gets

773
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 1: asked like you know, personal, like what's your biggest mistakes?

774
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 7: Like that?

775
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: She actually I think she'd be better off if she's like,

776
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: I only want to talk about policy.

777
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 2: Look, they claim a lot of stuff. They claim she's

778
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,439
Speaker 2: in the Formula one. I'm like, okay, you know, I'll

779
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 2: hear you out. You know, they claim I was listening

780
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: to her with Shannon Sharp. She seems like a diet

781
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 2: you know, she seems like, well acquainted with food and diet. Right,

782
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 2: she said she eats this, She leves to cook. Omlet

783
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 2: likes to cook every morning. She says that she works out.

784
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: Rogan is a workout freak, and he knows a lot

785
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 2: about foods. I'd be curious to hear about the morning room.

786
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 2: I can see why some normal people and all that

787
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 2: would be into that, But I guess my general heuristic

788
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 2: is these people you have to understand what the psychology

789
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 2: it is to spend your life on the road, to

790
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 2: sleep in different hotel rooms, to literally have the idolatry

791
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 2: and the ego to think that you can have the

792
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 2: supreme power of mankind in your hands, and to give

793
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 2: up everything else in your life to get to that position.

794
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 2: I don't think people quite understand it. And we're not

795
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 2: talking about just four years. It takes a Kamala Harris,

796
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 2: how old is she's sixty? Right, She's been a professional

797
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 2: politician for thirty five years. That means you don't have

798
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 2: a personal life. Every single thing that you do is

799
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 2: literally revolves around getting to this position, about getting up

800
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 2: the next rung. I mean, even with Trump, it's like,

801
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 2: you know, even whether he's mar A Lago he's working. Right,

802
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 2: when you're having dinner, you're always having dinner with people

803
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 2: who are in the business. You need to be born

804
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 2: for this, and like it takes a very it takes

805
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 2: a type of personality which most people would not actually like,

806
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 2: you know, in terms of in terms of relatability, like

807
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 2: with George W. Bush, like the whole, Like I want

808
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 2: to have a beer with him. I'm like, well, how

809
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 2: did that work out? Yeah, it doesn't work out well.

810
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 1: It makes me think of Bernie Sanders and his absolute

811
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: aversion to talking about amuse.

812
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

813
00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,240
Speaker 1: You know, I famously with the New York Times editorial

814
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: Board's like you know, yeah, yeah, okay, And jam Aids

815
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,439
Speaker 1: always won his campaign. I always wanted to talk about

816
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: his biography. He's like, right, and who he is in

817
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: his back where I like these, you know, is uh

818
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: Jewish upbringing and hard scrub working class all this stuff,

819
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 1: and he's just like, no, I want to talk about policy.

820
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: I want to talk about millions and millionaires and billionaires

821
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: of what we're going to do in medicare for all.

822
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: And you are not going to get me off of that.

823
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 1: So respect, yeah, I respect. That is obviously not the

824
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: way so there you go.

825
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:32,760
Speaker 3: I would like it to work that yeah, but people

826
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 3: delude themselves. You know.

827
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: The Obamas literally had a love movie made about him.

828
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 2: That doesn't sound like a love story to me what

829
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 2: I just laid out.

830
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 4: You know.

831
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 2: The Clinton, I mean, that's a whole other level in

832
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 2: terms of boy I mean, okay, So Jimmy Carter probably

833
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: our nicest president, right if you read his memoir.

834
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 3: I'm sorry I'm going off on this, but this is

835
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 3: something I think about.

836
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: If you read Jimmy Carter's memoir, he decides to quit

837
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 2: his naval career. He's living in Hawaii with his wife.

838
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 2: His wife loves why she hates planes Georgia. His wife,

839
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: his dad dies, and he has an opportunity to go

840
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 2: and take over his dad's job.

841
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 3: You know what he does.

842
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 2: He resigns from the navy and he tells her, Hey, Rosalind,

843
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 2: we're moving back to planes. She's humiliated, she's weeping, and

844
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 2: he's like, that's just how it's going to be.

845
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 1: Didn't she like not talk to him for months or

846
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 1: something else?

847
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's who these people are. They're narcissists. They're crazy.

848
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 3: Can you imagine acting like that in a marriage. But

849
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 3: that's who they are. I feel like that's also just a.

850
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: Different time too.

851
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 3: Well that's just makes you. But I claim there is.

852
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 1: Some of that of like, you know, the man is

853
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,399
Speaker 1: a provider, like we do. I'm the captain of the ship. Right,

854
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 1: we do what I say we're going to do.

855
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 3: And it was nineteen fifty five. You think all husbands

856
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 3: were acting like that in nineteen fifty five? Now?

857
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, Bristol, what are you taking a look at?

858
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: Well? Lost in the melee of comments about whale psychologists

859
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: and jokes about Puerto Rico being literal trash was a

860
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 1: comment Trump made in his Big Rogan interview, reaffirming an

861
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: economic program that is nothing short of radical. Insane might

862
00:40:58,640 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: be a better word for it.

863
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 9: Take a look, did you just float out the idea

864
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 9: of getting rid of income taxes and replacing it with tariffs?

865
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 1: Well, okay, we're serious about that?

866
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 8: How yeah? Sure? But why not? Because we ready our

867
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 8: country was the richest in the relatively in the eighteen

868
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 8: eighties and eighteen nineties. A president who was assassinated named McKinley.

869
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 8: He was the tariff king. He spoke beautifully of tariffs.

870
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 8: His language was really beautiful. We will not allow the

871
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,399
Speaker 8: enemy to come in and take our jobs, and take

872
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 8: our factories, and take our workers, and take our families.

873
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 1: So this is far from the first time Trump has

874
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: floated this particular economic program. You might be familiar with

875
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: him waxing poetic about how tariff's most beautiful word and

876
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: how fantastic Gilded Age President William McKinley was. Ironically McKinley's

877
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 1: Spanish American Wars what led to Puerto Rico's acquisition as

878
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:55,760
Speaker 1: US territory. But I digress. Now, I know It's somewhat

879
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: folly to take all of Trump's utterances totally seriously. He

880
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: promised everyone on healthcare, after all, and here we are

881
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: all still waiting. But between Trump, his main funder Elon,

882
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 1: and a host of new right influencers, we can discern

883
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: that lines of a true ideological agenda that is equal

884
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: parts radical and regressive. What's more, in my opinion, we

885
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 1: should be evaluating presdential connundors based on their stated plans.

886
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 1: After all, what else can we really go on? And

887
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: the idea of eliminating the income tax entirely and replacing

888
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 1: it with tariffs is quite a plan. Now, the impact

889
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: a session approach is pretty obvious across the board. Terraffs

890
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: will make prices on all imported goods skyrocketing prices on

891
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: everything from bananas and gas to electronics and housing, they

892
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 1: will all go up. The inflationary spiral will also likely

893
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: trigger additional price gouging by corporations using the excuse of

894
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: inflation to further jack up prices. This is exactly what

895
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: we saw during the post COVID inflation spike. Now, the

896
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 1: shift from income tax to tariffs to fund the government

897
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: would also be wildly regressive, meaning that the horst among

898
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: us will pay the most in taxes as a percent

899
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 1: of their income, and the richest will pay the very least.

900
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: After all, the poor pay vastly more of their income

901
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,359
Speaker 1: on things like groceries, gas, and other consumer items than

902
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: the rich, to for whom these expenses are comparatively trivial.

903
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: In fact, a core reason for the creation of the

904
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: income tax was in order to combat Gilded Age inequality

905
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 1: and to be able to tax the rich. Ecal Americans

906
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,439
Speaker 1: of course, continue to share to this day. There's also

907
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: a very obvious practical problem with this policy, which is

908
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: that it would be impossible to impose a tariff large

909
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: enough to make up the loss of the income tax.

910
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 1: Tariffs represent just two percent of the current federal government budget.

911
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: The other ninety eight percent is largely income taxes and

912
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: payroll taxes. We currently import roughly three trillion dollars of

913
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: goods every year, but the federal budget is six point

914
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 1: seventy five trillion dollars. So even if you put one

915
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 1: hundred percent tariff on every imported good, you would still

916
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: not raise even enough a revenue to fund half of

917
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 1: the federal governments spenditures. Not to mention that applying terraffs

918
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:04,919
Speaker 1: will lead to a reduction in foreign trade, which will

919
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: further reduce the amount of tariff revenue, creating a doom's

920
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 1: viral for the federal government's budget. Now, I don't know

921
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 1: if Trump knows or cares about this basic math, but

922
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,479
Speaker 1: I do know for the billionaire anarcho capitalist aligned set

923
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,880
Speaker 1: that is backing his campaign, people like Elon Musk, people

924
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: like Peter Teele, the fact that relying on tariffs instead

925
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: of income tax would require dismantling most of the federal

926
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:33,280
Speaker 1: government is a feature, not a bug. In fact, maybe

927
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 1: even more significant than Trump's utterances on the campaign trail

928
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: are Elon's. He is, after all, Trump's biggest funder, He's

929
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: running substantial parts of his campaign, He's running an entire

930
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 1: tech company on Trump's behalf, and has been promised a

931
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: powerful government wide role with which he could drive his

932
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: own ideological ends. He and Peter Teele were also influential

933
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: in getting their ally jd vance on the presidential ticket

934
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: to further their influence in the administration. So what is

935
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,439
Speaker 1: it exactly that Elon wants. Well, in part, he wants

936
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 1: to bolster his own bottom line since he already is

937
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 1: one of the federal government's largest contractors. He also wants

938
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: his various legal regulatory issues with the federal government to disappear.

939
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: But from an ideological perspective, we know he, like others

940
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 1: in the libertarian tech elites, that is a fan of

941
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: Argentina's anarcho capitalist president Javier Malay. Now you can catch

942
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: glimpses of Elon's ideological goals when he talks about how

943
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: many government agencies he wants to abolish. When he asserts

944
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,720
Speaker 1: that he wants to cut two trillion dollars from the budget,

945
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 1: which is more than the entire federal government discretionary budget,

946
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: also when he describes all government spending as inherently bad,

947
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: and when he says that Americans will have to go

948
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: through temporary hardship to deliver his imagined libertarian utopia. Now,

949
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of Elon fans pay too

950
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: much attention exactly what Elon says. They just think he's

951
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,879
Speaker 1: like cool, smart, based or whatever. But it is worth

952
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 1: listening carefully to such a powerful individual.

953
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 9: But we set up those Yes, how much do you

954
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 9: think we can rip out of this wasted six point

955
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,280
Speaker 9: five trillion dollars harvest Biden budget?

956
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 7: Well, I think we could do at least two trillion.

957
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, two trillion.

958
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 7: I mean, at the end of the day, you're being taxed.

959
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 3: You're being taxed.

960
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 7: All government spending is taxation. So whether it's it's direct

961
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 7: taxation or old govern spending, it either becomes inflation or

962
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 7: it's as direct taxation. Your money is being wasted, and

963
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 7: the Apartment of Government Divisioncy.

964
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:34,440
Speaker 4: Is going to fix that.

965
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 10: We have to reduce spending to look within our means.

966
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 10: And yeah, that necessarily bolths some temporary hardship, but it

967
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,320
Speaker 10: will ensure long term prosperity.

968
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: So these comments are all in line with that anarcho

969
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,720
Speaker 1: capitalist dream of dismantling government effectively letting corporations run wild,

970
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 1: as detailed by Sam Butler over at Drop Side. Elon

971
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 1: has also ominously incorporated a new company, officially making him

972
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 1: the CEO of quote United States of America, Inc. Now,

973
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: if you want to see how well this libertarian dream

974
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: goes in reality, you might take a gander at Argentina,

975
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: where Javier Malay is doing his best to put radical

976
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: anti government pro corporate policies into place. In this new

977
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: laissez fair paradise, poverty has skyrocketed to over fifty percent.

978
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: Over three point four million Argentinians have been pushed into

979
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: poverty in this year alone. Pensions are frozen, social safety

980
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: netslash soup Kitchen's cut, and all public works projects have

981
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: been stopped. The type of global institutions that routinely imposed

982
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 1: economic shock therapy on poor countries are celebrating this self

983
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: imposed shock therapy. But, judging by Malay's popularity knows Dive,

984
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: the people of Argentina are somewhat less impressed.

985
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 3: Now.

986
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 1: Some in the JD Vance Teel David Zachs tech world

987
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: are also influenced by the ideas of new right intellectual

988
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: Curtis Jarvin, who argues for a complete dissolution of the

989
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 1: federal government, an abandonment of democracy at all, in favor

990
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: of a patchwork of corporate fifdoms. In his imaginings, these

991
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: fightctims would be run by a CEO king with total control.

992
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: See how Trump might find that idea somewhat appealing. You

993
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,399
Speaker 1: would lose your status as a citizen, but instead you'd

994
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,279
Speaker 1: have the rights of a customer, namely the right to

995
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: complain impotently to customer service and to depart for a

996
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,400
Speaker 1: different corporate victom if you are still unhappy, assuming that

997
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: is that another locale is willing to permit your immigration. Now,

998
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: I know this all sounds kind of insane, but it's

999
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: somewhat closer to reality than you might actually think. Special

1000
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: economic zones have proliferated around the world by the thousands,

1001
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,720
Speaker 1: where the needs of corporations are in fact king. In addition,

1002
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,240
Speaker 1: dozens of four profit charter cities have already been launched,

1003
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 1: largely in developing countries, and many with the backing of

1004
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 1: jd Vance's main benefactor, Peter Teel. What's more, Trump's shift

1005
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: on cryptocurrency a key ideological commitment for Elon and the

1006
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 1: tech libertarians. Is also a crucial indicator that Trump is

1007
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 1: bending more to their will than the reverse. After all,

1008
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: they have a fully formed ideology and that is a

1009
00:48:57,560 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: powerful weapon. Trump, on the other hand, has an ee

1010
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: go and some reactionary instincts, and is also very easily manipulated.

1011
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: Now it might seem like Trump's old school protectionism is

1012
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 1: an odd fit for these anarcho capitalist types, but the

1013
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,280
Speaker 1: zero income tax policy, which was wholly absent from previous

1014
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: Trump runs, is what helps make this alliance work and

1015
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: helps it make some sense. And in the presidency of

1016
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: William McKinley they can find a sort of shared imagined

1017
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:28,759
Speaker 1: utopian vision. As Jeffrey Kabaservis, a historian of Republicanism, told

1018
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,320
Speaker 1: The New Republic, the GFP has formed a cult around McKinley,

1019
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: largely because he was the last pre progressive Republican president.

1020
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: Time was when conservatives love Theodore Roosevelt, but many now

1021
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: think of him as a big government warmonger. Rightly or wrongly,

1022
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: McKinley in this light appears as the last standard bearer

1023
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: of Republicanism's lost Eden, when government was comparatively tiny gets

1024
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: strong enough to make the country a great power. So

1025
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: in McKinley, Trump gets his tariffs and the ain Ran

1026
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: set gets their dismantled pre new de Ill federal government

1027
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: an ideal landscape for the will of corporate CEOs to

1028
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: trump the will of the people. Trump also seems to

1029
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 1: find McKinley appealing because he was assassinated in office of fate. Trump,

1030
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 1: of course himself darely escaped. Interestingly, though, McKinley's final speech

1031
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: was an effort to explain why he wanted to roll

1032
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 1: back some of the tariffs that he himself had previously championed.

1033
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: The period of exclusiveness, he said, is past. The expansion

1034
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 1: of our trade and commerce is the pressing problem. Commercial

1035
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 1: wars are unprofitable. A policy of good will and friendly

1036
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: trade relations will prevent reprisals. Reciprocity treaties are in harmony

1037
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 1: with the spirit of the times. Measures of retaliation are not. If, perchance,

1038
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 1: some of our tariffs are no longer needed for revenue

1039
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: or to encourage and protect our industries at home, why

1040
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 1: should they not be employed to extend and promote our

1041
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:50,800
Speaker 1: markets abroad. Sounds like a regular neoliberal there. In other words,

1042
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 1: by nineteen oh one, America had already soured on the

1043
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,839
Speaker 1: economic program, which it helped to fuel the wild inequality

1044
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 1: of the Gilded Age, pushing forward towards a progressive tax

1045
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: system and ultimately the New Deal, programs that redefine the

1046
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,439
Speaker 1: federal government's relationship to the masses. Of course, it should

1047
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:09,920
Speaker 1: surprise no one that today's robber barons are anxious to

1048
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,760
Speaker 1: turn back the clock all the way to that era.

1049
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 1: Remains to be seen how successful they might be in

1050
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: implementing their vision, but I wouldn't underestimate them either. Billionaires

1051
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: have more or less had their way with America for decades,

1052
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: and it's kind of hard to see that changing anytime soon.

1053
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: So so I'm very curious for your takeover, and if you

1054
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 1: want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a

1055
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.