WEBVTT - Trump vs. the UN

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>Every September, global leaders gather at the headquarters of the

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<v Speaker 2>United Nations to discuss and debate the world's toughest issues.

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<v Speaker 1>There's eighty nine heads of state, five vice presidents, one

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<v Speaker 1>crown Prince, and forty three heads of government.

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<v Speaker 2>Magdalena del Vialler covers the UN for Bloomberg, and she

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<v Speaker 2>says the eighty year old institution is at a critical juncture.

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<v Speaker 2>The United States, which is responsible for about twenty percent

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<v Speaker 2>of the UN's annual budget, hasn't paid its dues in months,

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<v Speaker 2>and President Trump says the organization is bloated and isn't

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<v Speaker 2>living up to its potential. That was the backdrop to

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<v Speaker 2>Trump's arrival to the General Assembly on Tuesday.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think things kind of started to go

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<v Speaker 1>wrong from almost the second he walked through.

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<v Speaker 2>The door, Magdalena says. The President and First Lady got

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<v Speaker 2>out of their limo, walked inside, and then stepped onto an.

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<v Speaker 1>Escalator and then all of a sudden it stopped. They

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<v Speaker 1>both were confused, and then they all had to walk up,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of awkwardly, up this escalator.

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<v Speaker 2>In a statement, a UN spokesperson said the escalators built

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<v Speaker 2>in safety mechanism had been activated. The Secret Service says

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<v Speaker 2>it's also investigating. Well after that, there was another problem.

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<v Speaker 2>When Trump reached the podium in the General Assembly Hall,

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<v Speaker 2>the teleprompter wasn't working.

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<v Speaker 3>I can only say that whoever's operating this teleprompter is

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<v Speaker 3>in big trouble.

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<v Speaker 2>Trump went on to deliver a speech that lasted almost

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<v Speaker 2>an hour, detailing a lot of what he views as

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<v Speaker 2>the major accomplishments of his second term. The president also

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<v Speaker 2>trained his sites on the UN itself. What's the purpose

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<v Speaker 2>of the United Nations? He asked.

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<v Speaker 3>For the most part, at least for now, all they

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<v Speaker 3>seemed to do is write a really strongly worded letter

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<v Speaker 3>and then never follow that letter up. It's empty words,

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<v Speaker 3>and empty words don't solve war.

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<v Speaker 2>Trump turned that awkward start to his speech into a

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<v Speaker 2>punchline and a metaphor.

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<v Speaker 1>These are the.

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<v Speaker 4>Two things I got from the United Nations.

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<v Speaker 3>A bad escalator and a bad teleprompter, Thank you very much.

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<v Speaker 2>Trump's criticism of the UN raises the question of what

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<v Speaker 2>the organization will look like in the future without the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of engagement and investment the US has provided for decades.

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<v Speaker 2>Antonio Guterrez, the UN Secretary General, told me the organization

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<v Speaker 2>is facing some hard choices.

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<v Speaker 4>We shrink, we reduce what we're doing.

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<v Speaker 5>The problem is that those peace keepers, that many of

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<v Speaker 5>them are in places where there's no piece to keep

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<v Speaker 5>with terrorist groups, with groups, they are sometimes the last

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<v Speaker 5>resort for the protection of civilians, and those.

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<v Speaker 4>Are the ones that will suffer.

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<v Speaker 5>So the UN can move on, but the people that

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<v Speaker 5>we support will suffer.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm David Gera and this is the big take from

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<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg News today. On the show, the United Nations at

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<v Speaker 2>a tipping point as the United States withholds money and support.

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<v Speaker 2>It raises questions about the role the UN plays on

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<v Speaker 2>the world stage. Since the United Nations was founded in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen forty five in the aftermath of the Second World War,

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<v Speaker 2>it's depended on funding from the United States, but the

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<v Speaker 2>country's unpaid obligations to the UN are now more than

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<v Speaker 2>three billion dollars. So when I sat down with UN

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<v Speaker 2>Secretary General Antonio Guterrez last week, I asked him can

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<v Speaker 2>the UN survive without US support?

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<v Speaker 5>We are having some massive cuts. The agencies have responded

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<v Speaker 5>in humanitarian aid and the Development Corporation, which means that

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<v Speaker 5>they reduce stuff, they shrunk their operations. So the UN

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<v Speaker 5>moves on, but of course the people impected by the

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<v Speaker 5>cuts suffer, which means less food distributed, less vaccines distributed,

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<v Speaker 5>less HIVH treatment distributed. So obviously the impact is not

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<v Speaker 5>in the end. The impact is in those that benefit

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<v Speaker 5>from the action of our humanitarian development agencies. On the

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<v Speaker 5>other hand, we have the assessed contributions, which means the

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<v Speaker 5>mandatory contributions that already red by member states for the

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<v Speaker 5>Secretariat and for the peacekeeping operations, and there are cuts

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<v Speaker 5>announced and cuts that probably will take place in the future.

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<v Speaker 5>We have been doing enough measures in the implementation.

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<v Speaker 4>Of this year's budget to be able to.

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<v Speaker 5>Move ahead, and we are preparing, if necessary, a series

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<v Speaker 5>of emergency measures to drastically reduce our peacekeeping operations.

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<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg's Magdalena Dovia says many people were hoping President Trump

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<v Speaker 2>would provide more information about the future sure of US

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<v Speaker 2>funding in his speech on Tuesday, but he didn't get

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<v Speaker 2>into specifics.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's not just because the US isn't paying. A

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<v Speaker 1>lot of countries aren't paying or they're paying late, and

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<v Speaker 1>so it's really hard for them to decide kind of

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<v Speaker 1>what they're going to fund, and the Secretary General has

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<v Speaker 1>made some proposals, but with so many different countries, with

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<v Speaker 1>so many different priorities, it's hard for them all to agree.

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<v Speaker 1>So even if the SG says, okay, we should combine

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<v Speaker 1>these two entities and fire this many people, for a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of these decisions, all the countries have to agree,

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<v Speaker 1>and so the bureaucracy could possibly get in the way

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<v Speaker 1>of making some hard cuts so.

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<v Speaker 2>That these countries who haven't paid what they've said they

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<v Speaker 2>would pay or they're supposed to pay. How would you

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<v Speaker 2>describe the current state of the UN how's it operating

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<v Speaker 2>without that financial scream.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I don't know if it's related, but it

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<v Speaker 1>could be that the escalator in the telefronter didn't work

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<v Speaker 1>because they can't afford it. I know, no, we are

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<v Speaker 1>very much discussing here, but in the past they have

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<v Speaker 1>had to shut down escalators at certain hours to save money.

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<v Speaker 1>They turned off the air conditioning again, I think during

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<v Speaker 1>the weekend or like. They've had to make some decisions

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<v Speaker 1>like that about just the day to day. I think

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<v Speaker 1>some of the elevators sometimes didn't run things like that,

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<v Speaker 1>but more broadly, I think it means that if these

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<v Speaker 1>countries continue to not pay a lot of programs might

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<v Speaker 1>just disappear. Something that's really at risk is the UN's

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<v Speaker 1>peacekeeping missions. The UN is going to cut about thirteen

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<v Speaker 1>percent of its workforce and about eleven percent of its funding,

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<v Speaker 1>and these missions are kind of the last resort for

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of countries. I mean, every institution that I've

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<v Speaker 1>talked to at the UN has this new motto where

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<v Speaker 1>they say they have to do less with less, So

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<v Speaker 1>I think everyone's trying to do that. More broadly, the

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<v Speaker 1>UN is moving a lot of its projects to places

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<v Speaker 1>where it's less expensive to live, so maybe instead of

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<v Speaker 1>New York and Geneva, they're going to Kenya or to Germany.

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<v Speaker 1>But there's also this push to make things more efficient

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<v Speaker 1>and to actually, instead of doing less with leus to

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<v Speaker 1>maybe try to do more with less. But obviously very

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<v Speaker 1>very difficult.

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<v Speaker 2>We're living in this moment when global power dynamics are

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<v Speaker 2>shifting so rapidly. There are several major conflicts unfolding all

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<v Speaker 2>around the world. I spoke with the UN Secretary General

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<v Speaker 2>on Friday, and Antonio Guterres told me we're now entering

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<v Speaker 2>into a multipolar world.

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<v Speaker 5>This is no longer a bipolar moons, This is no

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<v Speaker 5>longer a unipolar world. This is at the present moment

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<v Speaker 5>the chaotic worlds but moving into a multi polar world.

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<v Speaker 5>And we need to build the multilateral institutions of the future.

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<v Speaker 5>That's why we are informing the UN. And let's not

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<v Speaker 5>forget there was multipolarity in Europe before the First World

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<v Speaker 5>War in the absence of multilateral institutions.

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<v Speaker 4>The result was, well.

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<v Speaker 2>It does seem like this is just the kind of

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<v Speaker 2>moment the UN was created eighty years ago to address.

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<v Speaker 1>A couple months ago, I spoke to someone and kind

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<v Speaker 1>of brought up the same question and his answer was, well,

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<v Speaker 1>we haven't had a Third World War yet, so the

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<v Speaker 1>UN is still working. But yeah, I mean, we have

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<v Speaker 1>the conflict between Israel and God, we had Russia and Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 1>There was actually a Security Council meeting called on by

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<v Speaker 1>Estonia to defend their own airspace, and now NATO is

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<v Speaker 1>saying that they're going to really defend their countries if

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<v Speaker 1>Russia flies over them. So there's also tension with Iran

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<v Speaker 1>right now. They're kind of in a very tight spot

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<v Speaker 1>where they have a week left to maybe come up

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<v Speaker 1>with a deal before the UN brings back sanctions on Iran.

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<v Speaker 1>But as long as we don't start World War three,

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<v Speaker 1>some experts say that the UN is working.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to go back to President Trump's speech, and

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<v Speaker 2>I wonder if you could draw a contrast between the

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<v Speaker 2>speech that he delivered in twenty twenty five and the

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<v Speaker 2>first speech he delivered eight years ago, help us understand

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<v Speaker 2>just how different the world is today than it was

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<v Speaker 2>eight years ago. I mean, President Trump had this ambition

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of reorder the global order. There were those

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<v Speaker 2>who didn't take him seriously before. He has been successful

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<v Speaker 2>in kind of pushing for or making a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the changes that he said he would back then.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's exactly right. I think eight years ago

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<v Speaker 1>people didn't take him as seriously. I think world leaders

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<v Speaker 1>of thought he was a bit of a joke. And

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<v Speaker 1>now he's here and he is not a joke. They're

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<v Speaker 1>taking him seriously. They're making sure to get in his

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<v Speaker 1>good grace. Is because they know he can and will

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<v Speaker 1>make their lives difficult if he wants to.

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<v Speaker 2>You hear the President's skepticism of the UN as it

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<v Speaker 2>exists today, and I'm curious how that affects the way

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<v Speaker 2>other Member states look at the US's role in the UN.

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<v Speaker 2>As you talk to people there, other diplomats, what do

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<v Speaker 2>they say just about the level of power influence that

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<v Speaker 2>the US has today.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think one of the hardest things for a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the Members states is the reality that no

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<v Speaker 1>other country can really step up to take the US's place.

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<v Speaker 1>There is a lot of speculation that China might step

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<v Speaker 1>up and have more influence in the UN or a

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<v Speaker 1>different country, but the magnitude of the US's influence and

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<v Speaker 1>just I mean the sheer scope of the money they contributed,

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<v Speaker 1>no one can match that. So sure, some countries might

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<v Speaker 1>try here and there, but I mean, I think it's unmatchable.

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<v Speaker 2>Without the full backing of the US. How much can

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<v Speaker 2>the UN do to promote peace and security around the world,

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<v Speaker 2>That's next. One common criticism of the United Nations is

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<v Speaker 2>that when it comes to resolving conflict, one of its

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<v Speaker 2>main roles, it's ineffective. The UN Security Council has the

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<v Speaker 2>big and important role of maintaining security and peace around

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<v Speaker 2>the world, but it's often deadlocked, frozen, blocked from moving

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<v Speaker 2>forward because the Council's five permanent members. China, France, Russia,

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<v Speaker 2>the United Kingdom and the US have all powerful vetos

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<v Speaker 2>and often the countries can't agree. I ask Secretary General

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<v Speaker 2>Guterrez how the broader institution can continue to operate when

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<v Speaker 2>this central body is unable to do its job effectively.

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<v Speaker 4>T N is much more than this Security Council.

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<v Speaker 5>We are by far the main distributors a mimitarian aid

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<v Speaker 5>in the world. We are in the front line of

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<v Speaker 5>climate action, so we are involved in lots of activities

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<v Speaker 5>of all kinds to the benefit of the people around

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<v Speaker 5>the world.

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<v Speaker 4>We have a problem, yes, in the core area of

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<v Speaker 4>our activity, which is peace and security.

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<v Speaker 5>We depend on a Security Council that today has a

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<v Speaker 5>problem of legitimacy because it doesn't correspond anymore to the

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<v Speaker 5>world of today. When we were talking about multipolarity, where

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<v Speaker 5>is the multipolarity in the Security Council? Clearly not and

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<v Speaker 5>it has a problem with efficiency and that is a

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<v Speaker 5>serious restriction for our activity. But usually say, when we

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<v Speaker 5>do not have a dog, we hunt with a cat.

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<v Speaker 4>But we hunt.

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<v Speaker 2>On Tuesday, the Security Council had separate three hour meetings

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<v Speaker 2>on Gaza and Ukraine.

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<v Speaker 1>There are a lot of conversations about these conflicts, and

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<v Speaker 1>then I do think in the background there's that sense.

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<v Speaker 1>So do we need the UN for this or not?

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<v Speaker 2>The question of Palestinian statehood is of course front and

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<v Speaker 2>center at this gathering, Canada, the UK, and Australia announcing

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<v Speaker 2>they now recognize Palestinian statehood. What is your sense of

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<v Speaker 2>the significance of them doing that and how is that

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<v Speaker 2>reverberating around the UN this week.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's pretty clear, and everyone has said that

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<v Speaker 1>it's mostly symbolic. I mean, in the long run, I

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<v Speaker 1>know that Macrone said he's hoping to have embassies and

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<v Speaker 1>to have more solid things that represent that France recognize

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<v Speaker 1>as Palestine as a state, and I'm sure other countries

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<v Speaker 1>are working on that as well, But for now, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>in the short term it is mostly just ideological, which

0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.679
<v Speaker 1>some countries think is good because it's going to put

0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.840
<v Speaker 1>pressure on Israel. Someone I spoke to yesterday actually said

0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:59.600
<v Speaker 1>it might be counterproductive because the pressure on Israel might

0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:03.800
<v Speaker 1>actually be a motivation for them to really bring down

0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:07.240
<v Speaker 1>the hammer harder than before because they feel more threatened.

0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:09.880
<v Speaker 1>So I mean, I guess we'll see what happened.

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<v Speaker 2>Another point of tension at this year's General Assembly is immigration.

0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.600
<v Speaker 2>In his Tuesday remarks, Trump called on other UN member

0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.079
<v Speaker 2>countries to clamp down on border security.

0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.160
<v Speaker 3>It's time to end the failed experiment of open borders.

0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:24.120
<v Speaker 4>You have to end it now.

0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:27.160
<v Speaker 3>Let's see. I can tell you I'm really good at

0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.600
<v Speaker 3>this stuff. Your countries are going to hell.

0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.800
<v Speaker 2>Trump has pressured the UN to change its protocols for

0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:34.800
<v Speaker 2>asylum seekers.

0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.320
<v Speaker 1>Basically, the UN has had this long standing rule for

0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.920
<v Speaker 1>how asylum should work, and the Trump administration they want,

0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.480
<v Speaker 1>I think, to have the countries that people arrive to

0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:48.320
<v Speaker 1>make more of the decisions rather than the people. They

0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.400
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't be able to decide which country to go to.

0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:53.120
<v Speaker 1>They should just like, you know, if you make it

0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.040
<v Speaker 1>to one place, then that's where you're stuck. You can't

0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:58.080
<v Speaker 1>suddenly decide to go somewhere else. I think Trump also

0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.120
<v Speaker 1>wants to propose that the host country can get to

0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:04.920
<v Speaker 1>decide when the asylum seeker can go back, Like they

0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.200
<v Speaker 1>can assess how the other country's doing, and if the

0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.319
<v Speaker 1>host country decides that it's okay, then the person can

0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.720
<v Speaker 1>be sent back. So they definitely want to make a.

0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.439
<v Speaker 2>Lot of changes in light of what we've discussed. I

0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.720
<v Speaker 2>think the trajectory of the UN doesn't sound like it's

0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:21.400
<v Speaker 2>on a great path. What are your sources say about

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<v Speaker 2>where the organization is headed.

0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.080
<v Speaker 1>This is not the first year, and I don't think

0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:28.320
<v Speaker 1>it'll be the last year where people say that the

0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.440
<v Speaker 1>United Nations is in the crisis. I mean, I think

0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.160
<v Speaker 1>ever since it was founded, people have criticized it. People

0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:38.200
<v Speaker 1>have thought that it's going to fail, and it hasn't.

0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.520
<v Speaker 1>And a lot of the sources I've spoken to, I mean,

0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.680
<v Speaker 1>when you know, there was the crisis in Iran and

0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.120
<v Speaker 1>things like that, we're saying, yeah, the UN can't really

0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:51.120
<v Speaker 1>mitigate every single little fight between two countries. They just

0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.880
<v Speaker 1>have to make sure the big picture stays okay. And

0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.800
<v Speaker 1>so yeah, I think. I mean, someone was saying, we're

0:14:57.800 --> 0:14:59.480
<v Speaker 1>going to be here next year again, and we're going

0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.120
<v Speaker 1>to be one if we're going to be here the

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<v Speaker 1>year after that, but we probably will. Like, I don't

0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:07.880
<v Speaker 1>think the UN is going anywhere, even though people every

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.360
<v Speaker 1>year think it might be its last year.

0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.920
<v Speaker 2>This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gura.

0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.440
<v Speaker 2>To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.760
<v Speaker 2>to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at bloomberg

0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:29.520
<v Speaker 2>dot com. Slash Podcast offer thanks for listening. We'll be

0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:30.120
<v Speaker 2>back tomorrow.