1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,600
Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

2
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,400
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Coast to Coast AM.

3
00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,559
Speaker 3: I am Lisagar and my fabulous guest is doctor Reef

4
00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:15,280
Speaker 3: Kharim and where he is a humanistic psychiatrist. After a

5
00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,880
Speaker 3: great story of how he basically got into and interested

6
00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:25,320
Speaker 3: in these psychology Reef, I'm just so curious because you

7
00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:26,800
Speaker 3: were obviously.

8
00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,520
Speaker 2: Voluntold that you needed to go to medical school.

9
00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,760
Speaker 3: But where did you find You had to find an

10
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,919
Speaker 3: interest in it within yourself in order to keep going on.

11
00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,800
Speaker 3: So you were talking about these why people do the

12
00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,360
Speaker 3: things they do corrective experiences? Why do we go after

13
00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:49,960
Speaker 3: this same bad relationship or the sabotaging patterns and these things?

14
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,040
Speaker 3: What part of our brain keeps us in those toxic

15
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,400
Speaker 3: expressions of ourselves?

16
00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:02,280
Speaker 4: What that so when we look at how we become us?

17
00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,600
Speaker 4: So we come into this world with some level, like

18
00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,240
Speaker 4: you know, I've got a little four year old, right

19
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:10,200
Speaker 4: and I look at him and he's so cute, and

20
00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:12,759
Speaker 4: you know, he's so they're so cute at that age,

21
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:17,280
Speaker 4: but they he comes in and I'm a big energy believer. Yeah,

22
00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,040
Speaker 4: I believe that when you're when you're assessing somebody, you

23
00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:26,040
Speaker 4: look at them from. In my world, it's biological, psychological, social,

24
00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,920
Speaker 4: and spiritual. Those are the four elements in which how

25
00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,440
Speaker 4: you view somebody. And you can look at you can

26
00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,640
Speaker 4: look at anybody that way. Like let's say you're on

27
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:36,560
Speaker 4: a date with somebody, maybe not a first date, but

28
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,640
Speaker 4: as you get to know somebody over time, uh, you

29
00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,160
Speaker 4: can see what you know, what what's their makeup on

30
00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,640
Speaker 4: a biological perspective of psychological, as social, and a spiritual.

31
00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,120
Speaker 4: And when we look at how we become us, we

32
00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,800
Speaker 4: come in with some kind of generational or ancestral history

33
00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,800
Speaker 4: that could be a trauma history, that could be you know,

34
00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,480
Speaker 4: there's there's some there's some cultures that are more erotic,

35
00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,600
Speaker 4: there's some cultures that are more likely to potentially have

36
00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:08,160
Speaker 4: some level of personality issues or more genetic predispositions in

37
00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,880
Speaker 4: that ethnicity or in that community or that culture for

38
00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,360
Speaker 4: certain psychological issues or medical issues. There's some you know,

39
00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,240
Speaker 4: ancestral carryover that comes in. Then you're going to have

40
00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,720
Speaker 4: your that's mixed in with your own kind of persona

41
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,119
Speaker 4: energetic persona of you as a little.

42
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:27,960
Speaker 5: As a little baby.

43
00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:33,120
Speaker 4: And and that's what makes like my son or little kids.

44
00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:34,600
Speaker 5: It's what makes them who they are.

45
00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,160
Speaker 4: They have their own personality, and they also have that

46
00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:42,440
Speaker 4: that genetic that genetic history, and that ancestral history, and

47
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,440
Speaker 4: it's like a mixture of all of that. And so

48
00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:49,200
Speaker 4: that's who they would potentially be if they in my mind,

49
00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,240
Speaker 4: if they if they grew up to be whoever they

50
00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,200
Speaker 4: were destined to be. There's going to be some innate

51
00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,480
Speaker 4: skills that they have. They can just do certain things

52
00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,680
Speaker 4: better than others. There's going to be this innate curiosity

53
00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,519
Speaker 4: that they have. There's going to be all this kind

54
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:09,960
Speaker 4: of innate energy call it, call it a soulful expression

55
00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,080
Speaker 4: that they will carry with them, this kind of energetic

56
00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,720
Speaker 4: I call it like your soulful madness. It's your it's

57
00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:24,839
Speaker 4: your energetic expression. The problem is parents and caregivers they

58
00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,840
Speaker 4: don't know what that energy is.

59
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:27,840
Speaker 5: They can't.

60
00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,440
Speaker 4: It's not like a kid comes with an instruction manual

61
00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,040
Speaker 4: and says, oh, well, this kid's destined to be the president. Well,

62
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,280
Speaker 4: this kid's maybe going to do this, or this kid's

63
00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:37,320
Speaker 4: really interested in that.

64
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,840
Speaker 5: The parents and caregivers don't know.

65
00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,640
Speaker 4: So some of them do their best and raise the

66
00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,560
Speaker 4: kid with what they think that kid should have some

67
00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:54,720
Speaker 4: of them impart their own dreams, their own views of

68
00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,240
Speaker 4: the world and good or bad, their own self limitations

69
00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,560
Speaker 4: that parents may have they put on the kid, their

70
00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,760
Speaker 4: own fear. And you know, we have this whole field

71
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,720
Speaker 4: called attachment attachment science, and it's whether you might have

72
00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,080
Speaker 4: had an insecure attachment attachment with your caregivers, but it's

73
00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,920
Speaker 4: also what the caregivers are passing on to you. They

74
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,839
Speaker 4: might be passing on confidence and an openness, they might

75
00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,919
Speaker 4: be passing on fear, they might be passing on all

76
00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,320
Speaker 4: sorts of things. And you know, I feel like my

77
00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:34,120
Speaker 4: job as a parent now is have some hard boundaries

78
00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:35,919
Speaker 4: that hey, I don't want you to do this.

79
00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:37,599
Speaker 5: I don't want you to jump off the roof because

80
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:38,159
Speaker 5: you're four.

81
00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:40,960
Speaker 4: I don't I don't want you to, you know, do

82
00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,400
Speaker 4: do anything crazy here. But I do want to help

83
00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,839
Speaker 4: you explore what you're good at, what you're curious about.

84
00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,120
Speaker 5: I don't want to negate that.

85
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,840
Speaker 4: I want to kind of roll with it, but at

86
00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,360
Speaker 4: the same time have some heart outs when things are

87
00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,080
Speaker 4: getting like really out of control.

88
00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 5: So then so well, go ahead.

89
00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:58,800
Speaker 3: I want to ask you a little bit about that

90
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:02,160
Speaker 3: generational history, the cultural I'm just going to back up

91
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,240
Speaker 3: for a second because that's fascinating to me. So you

92
00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,840
Speaker 3: come in with and I mean, can you come in

93
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,640
Speaker 3: with hereditary trauma.

94
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,680
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, if you look up, if you look up

95
00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,680
Speaker 4: some research on generational trauma, it's legit. Wow, Like there

96
00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:22,039
Speaker 4: are some cultures that Okay, let's say something happened to

97
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,560
Speaker 4: your community, Like you know, I know some people that

98
00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:30,200
Speaker 4: they are Native American and they've had some really rough

99
00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,200
Speaker 4: times as Native Americans in the past, and there's this

100
00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,719
Speaker 4: a culturation aspect to it. Maybe there's a mental health

101
00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,760
Speaker 4: thing that came from it, Maybe there was an addiction

102
00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,599
Speaker 4: history that comes from it. Maybe there's a trauma in

103
00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:44,760
Speaker 4: some other way history. You look at some people that

104
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,520
Speaker 4: are survivors of the Holocaust, you look at people that

105
00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,920
Speaker 4: have survived lavery.

106
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:51,480
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean about.

107
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,960
Speaker 4: Slavery exactly, really challenging times.

108
00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,760
Speaker 5: That doesn't get erased from the DNA.

109
00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,840
Speaker 2: Like to to the DNA scientifically.

110
00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,960
Speaker 4: Well, what happens is like there's there's something called neuroadaptation.

111
00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:13,120
Speaker 4: And you see neuroadaptation with trauma, you see neuroadaptation with addiction,

112
00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,120
Speaker 4: you see it with obesity.

113
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,040
Speaker 5: There's there's I don't want them.

114
00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,120
Speaker 4: You know, there's dinorphan, There's there's a number of other

115
00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,120
Speaker 4: like peptides that change and what ends up happening like

116
00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,560
Speaker 4: in the in the in addiction, for instance, what you

117
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:37,520
Speaker 4: feel as a bad day is way more dysphoric after

118
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,840
Speaker 4: you've had some level of neuroadaptation. So let's say I'll

119
00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,360
Speaker 4: use addiction first, then I'll get into trauma. Like let's

120
00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:50,320
Speaker 4: say somebody is pre wired. There's a genetic vulnerability. There's

121
00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:55,680
Speaker 4: two two having an addiction problem. They get exposed to

122
00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,520
Speaker 4: the stimulus, they get exposed to the drug, whatever that

123
00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,280
Speaker 4: drug is, and the method or delivery system that happens

124
00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:07,080
Speaker 4: and they start to you know, have a disorganized use

125
00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,600
Speaker 4: where that you starts to either build or they have

126
00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,600
Speaker 4: some level of tolerance, or they start they start getting

127
00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,040
Speaker 4: into trouble with it at some point. If they were

128
00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:21,880
Speaker 4: not specifically vulnerable from an ancestral perspective or genetic perspective

129
00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:26,560
Speaker 4: growing up, perhaps it would just be a drug problem

130
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:33,200
Speaker 4: that would be hard to kick, but more able, more

131
00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:39,600
Speaker 4: tolerable to kick. Because dysphoria feels like dysphoria, negativity feels

132
00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,400
Speaker 4: like negativity, and the good feels like the good. They

133
00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,120
Speaker 4: have like a normative level of what feels bad and

134
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,720
Speaker 4: what feels good. If you have a neuroadaptation, that then

135
00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:53,600
Speaker 4: occurs and you've shifted something in your brain. What was

136
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:59,520
Speaker 4: normally like an average day feels like a bad day.

137
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,520
Speaker 2: Makes more times worse for probably one hundred yes, and.

138
00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,480
Speaker 4: What becomes a bad day feels like your worst day ever.

139
00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:10,240
Speaker 2: Huh huh.

140
00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:14,800
Speaker 3: So this genetic vulnerability really exacerbates. So you get exposures

141
00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,920
Speaker 3: the first thing which everyone's going to get. I mean,

142
00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,560
Speaker 3: it could be cigarettes, it could be eating disorders, it

143
00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:20,520
Speaker 3: could be exposure to.

144
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,119
Speaker 2: All of it. It's all out there.

145
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,840
Speaker 3: And then there's a disorganized use where it's an uncontrolled,

146
00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:31,520
Speaker 3: vulnerable use and then the normal brain can kick it

147
00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,200
Speaker 3: with some intervention, but you can't, and it's a thousand

148
00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,480
Speaker 3: times magnified. If you have this genetic vulnerability, what then,

149
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:41,560
Speaker 3: what do you do then?

150
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,400
Speaker 5: So and again I'll talk about addiction. Now I'll talk

151
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:46,960
Speaker 5: about trauma.

152
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:53,000
Speaker 4: In the the world where there's been neuroadaptation, it is

153
00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:58,040
Speaker 4: much much harder to kick a drug habit, an alcohol habit,

154
00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,880
Speaker 4: a behavioral habit like a gam disorder disorder gambling, or

155
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,400
Speaker 4: or sex, you know, sex addiction. I used to run

156
00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,160
Speaker 4: a treatment center and we had many people that had

157
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 4: behavioral issues that came in, you know, behavioral disorders, and

158
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,200
Speaker 4: it just becomes so much harder because think about it,

159
00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,480
Speaker 4: for a person that doesn't have an addiction at all,

160
00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,800
Speaker 4: you get hooked on alcohol, or you get hooked on

161
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,360
Speaker 4: gambling or on shopping, or on sex or whatever, and

162
00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,920
Speaker 4: it's really hard because you have a psychological connection to it.

163
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,360
Speaker 4: You have a physiological connection to it. But as you said,

164
00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,560
Speaker 4: with the right intervention, with the right help, with the

165
00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,960
Speaker 4: right mindset, with the right whatever, it takes the right

166
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,680
Speaker 4: spiritual shift, because you might feel spiritually bankrupt and you

167
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,280
Speaker 4: want to shift that. With that right shift, you can

168
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,839
Speaker 4: and the right help, you can kick that. But how

169
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,080
Speaker 4: much harder is it to kick it when you don't

170
00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,400
Speaker 4: have an absence of that behavior, and absence of that

171
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,640
Speaker 4: drug and absence of that alcohol creates your worst day ever.

172
00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:01,719
Speaker 4: You're gonna go back to it, and they're gonna be like,

173
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,680
Speaker 4: I can't do this. You go, you go fifteen minutes

174
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,880
Speaker 4: feeling your worstayever and you're like, hell, no, I'm not

175
00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,840
Speaker 4: doing this anymore nowhere, no way, I'm going back to it.

176
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:11,560
Speaker 5: I'm gonna take it.

177
00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,320
Speaker 4: I'm gonna do what I'm gonna engage in this thing,

178
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,959
Speaker 4: and it's so much harder now. Now take it from

179
00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,400
Speaker 4: the perspective of trauma. There's been some trauma that you've

180
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,200
Speaker 4: had in your childhood, that you had with your parents,

181
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,360
Speaker 4: that you had growing up, that you had in college,

182
00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,400
Speaker 4: or that was carried over to you where you're you're.

183
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 5: Fearful of something, of something happening.

184
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,720
Speaker 4: It's just it's almost like implanted early on from just

185
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,240
Speaker 4: your culture, and it's just like a culture thing. Now

186
00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,720
Speaker 4: you you start going through life and you develop some

187
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,520
Speaker 4: type of neuroadaptation because of it, and you you have

188
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:49,320
Speaker 4: more fear in your adult life. You're more neurotic in

189
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,440
Speaker 4: your adult life. You limit yourself in your adult life. No,

190
00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,240
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna take that job. I'm not I'm not

191
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,200
Speaker 4: gonna take that risk. You become risk averse. There's things

192
00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,679
Speaker 4: you really want but you don't go for it. There's

193
00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,240
Speaker 4: and you start to look at your as I mentioned

194
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,720
Speaker 4: the term self concept, you start looking at your self concept,

195
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:13,320
Speaker 4: especially with unprocessed trauma, unhealed trauma, you start looking at

196
00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,480
Speaker 4: your life and you're like, yeah, that's not for me

197
00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:17,880
Speaker 4: that dream's not going to happen.

198
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,439
Speaker 5: I'm not able to do that.

199
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,720
Speaker 2: I don't feel deserving to write.

200
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it plays deservedness, It plays into your self worth,

201
00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,240
Speaker 4: it plays into all of it, right.

202
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,520
Speaker 3: I mean, it's interesting as a treatment center that you

203
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,319
Speaker 3: break it down like that because you have so much

204
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,680
Speaker 3: more compassion, because you understand that this person is predisposed

205
00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:43,319
Speaker 3: that they almost cannot help it genetically to reverse or

206
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,120
Speaker 3: what is it called when you revert back to relapse,

207
00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,240
Speaker 3: and that they really literally cannot help themselves. And if

208
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:56,400
Speaker 3: somebody was concerned enough to get them to the treatment center,

209
00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,160
Speaker 3: or that they were aware enough to get to a

210
00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,920
Speaker 3: treatment center, that's great that you actually had that distinction

211
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,040
Speaker 3: and that awareness. I mean, did did that ever occur

212
00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,559
Speaker 3: to people like you know that, like a Robin Williams

213
00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,120
Speaker 3: or like a Michael Jackson that had access to so

214
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,079
Speaker 3: much out there? Did they ever have this level of

215
00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:21,080
Speaker 3: understanding that you would get from just going to a

216
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:25,079
Speaker 3: treatment center they had such concierge style medicine.

217
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,320
Speaker 5: Well, it really depends who you spoke to.

218
00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,720
Speaker 4: I've worked and not just in addiction, like in mental health,

219
00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:38,400
Speaker 4: in personal development, in optimizing the mind and the brain, in.

220
00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,240
Speaker 4: You know, I use a quote I could, I could,

221
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,520
Speaker 4: I could prescribe you a medication, but expanding your mind

222
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:46,640
Speaker 4: is way more effective.

223
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,840
Speaker 5: I mean, that's the quote that I live by.

224
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,400
Speaker 4: And I live by that because I want to expand

225
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,520
Speaker 4: your mind. I want you to be able to see

226
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,000
Speaker 4: beyond your current circumstances.

227
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:00,319
Speaker 5: You know, we get stuck in this state.

228
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,719
Speaker 4: I'll get neuroscience is for a second, but we get

229
00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,880
Speaker 4: stuck in the state of cognitive rigidity, and we're not

230
00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:11,959
Speaker 4: able to, you know, form new neuronal communication networks and

231
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 4: spontaneous ideas and think of ways out of our current

232
00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,240
Speaker 4: problems are old problems, let alone our future problems, because

233
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:20,120
Speaker 4: we're just not able to.

234
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,360
Speaker 5: We're on shutdown. We're unstuck. We're stuck.

235
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:29,079
Speaker 4: So when you know, I had this big epiphany where

236
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,920
Speaker 4: I was running this really high end treatment center. I

237
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:36,640
Speaker 4: was treating everybody from celebrities to scholarship people where they

238
00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,520
Speaker 4: were almost basically homeless, and I was working with all

239
00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,960
Speaker 4: different types of people because their brains are similar let alone.

240
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,600
Speaker 4: You know, their outfits might be different, but their brains

241
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:46,200
Speaker 4: are similar.

242
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,160
Speaker 5: And I was helping a lot of people.

243
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:54,760
Speaker 4: But I'm like, I really saw something that was missing

244
00:13:55,160 --> 00:14:00,480
Speaker 4: from traditional treatment and from just traditional just the people

245
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,480
Speaker 4: look at mental health the way they were framing mental health.

246
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,000
Speaker 5: And it really started to bother me.

247
00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,360
Speaker 4: And I started to see all these people that maybe

248
00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,040
Speaker 4: they didn't have a full on mental health diagnosis, they

249
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:19,920
Speaker 4: weren't diagnosable, but there was like this undercurrent of feeling uninspired, unexpressed,

250
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,200
Speaker 4: and unrealized, and it was like a large, large amount

251
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:25,000
Speaker 4: of people.

252
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:26,400
Speaker 5: And it was growing.

253
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:33,200
Speaker 4: And the more that our technology was expanding our ability,

254
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,120
Speaker 4: you know, just everything from cell phones to social media

255
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,520
Speaker 4: comparison to AI to you just name the next thing, robotics,

256
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,360
Speaker 4: blah blah blah, our minds are not able to keep up.

257
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:46,520
Speaker 4: And what ends up happening is we're getting more and

258
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,360
Speaker 4: more overstimulated. And that overstimulation is one of the reasons

259
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:55,080
Speaker 4: we're landing in this level of cognitive rigidity and validation

260
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 4: seeking and conformity seeking and like group think and anger

261
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:05,000
Speaker 4: and fear and polarizing. All of that stuff is not random.

262
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,880
Speaker 4: It's not like we're just oh, it's twenty twenty five.

263
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,800
Speaker 4: We're more people are feeling more victimized, people are more angry,

264
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:13,000
Speaker 4: people are more polarized.

265
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,200
Speaker 5: Look at our politics. No, it's not just because of that.

266
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,880
Speaker 4: It's it's because of the nature of our minds and

267
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:24,200
Speaker 4: what's happening to our minds with this current.

268
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:24,640
Speaker 5: Culture we're in.

269
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:29,640
Speaker 4: Our current culture is toxic to our ability to find

270
00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,680
Speaker 4: meaning and be more cognitively flexible. And I saw that,

271
00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,360
Speaker 4: and I saw it coming, and I said, I am

272
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:38,840
Speaker 4: going to leave.

273
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:40,120
Speaker 5: This was my big epiphany.

274
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 4: I'm going to leave everything that was keeping me seeing

275
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:51,120
Speaker 4: people one on one, the academic life that I was leading,

276
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,320
Speaker 4: and the you know, one on one treatment center. We

277
00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,680
Speaker 4: would have like multiple people there, but it was a

278
00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:58,560
Speaker 4: smaller number.

279
00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,600
Speaker 5: And I'm going to go, you know, shout from the

280
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 5: roofline on meds, pocess.

281
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:08,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, talk about what's happening to our culture in a

282
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:08,880
Speaker 4: much bigger way.

283
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,160
Speaker 3: Yes, because especially, I mean, people are just getting more angry.

284
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:17,480
Speaker 3: They snap easier because of the pressures on people these days,

285
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,000
Speaker 3: with of course the overstimulation, like you're talking about, there's

286
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:27,440
Speaker 3: never a downtime. There's an addiction to media, to social media.

287
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,960
Speaker 3: Talk about addictions. That is a dopamine addiction. I mean

288
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:37,240
Speaker 3: it's a straight up chemical addiction, and people get overwhelmed

289
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,320
Speaker 3: completely and of course then you add in not enough

290
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,000
Speaker 3: and not worthy and then familial pressure like you had,

291
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 3: and it just makes people absolutely lose it these days.

292
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,560
Speaker 3: Try to go out in a freeway. I mean, I

293
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,000
Speaker 3: know you live in a Los Angeles right, Yeah, hasn't.

294
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:54,880
Speaker 2: It got in insane?

295
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,560
Speaker 3: The freeway is not like I mean, they're bad enough,

296
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,160
Speaker 3: but then you have these random people going hundreds of

297
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,240
Speaker 3: miles an hour in weaving in and out of traffic,

298
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,919
Speaker 3: And it's happening more and more and more on our

299
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,000
Speaker 3: freeways that you can barely even move on right now.

300
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,120
Speaker 2: And I know it's happening across the country too.

301
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,439
Speaker 3: So this I love that you're doing this one on

302
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,040
Speaker 3: many approach because there's a bigger epidemic happening right now

303
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,359
Speaker 3: and it's called mental health. I wouldn't call it mental

304
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,120
Speaker 3: illness because I want to call it something positive. It's

305
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:31,080
Speaker 3: got to be mental health, and we're seeing it. Talk

306
00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:35,440
Speaker 3: therapy isn't necessarily the solution in my opinion.

307
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,680
Speaker 2: I think it's. Well, I'd love to know what you think.

308
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:40,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm curious, what's your take?

309
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,280
Speaker 4: If you don't think it's necessarily talk therapy, what do

310
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,639
Speaker 4: you think? What do you think is your experience as

311
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,280
Speaker 4: your friends or people you've seen in perstural healing.

312
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,000
Speaker 3: I think it goes back to that cultural trauma that

313
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,600
Speaker 3: you were talking about earlier. I mean, things like plant

314
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,240
Speaker 3: medicine can get you to those places where you access

315
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:04,000
Speaker 3: parts of the the psyche that can get you underneath

316
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,800
Speaker 3: the cultural trauma.

317
00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,640
Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

318
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,920
Speaker 1: one am Eastern, and go to Coast to coastam dot

319
00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 1: com for more