1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 2: Guess what mango was that? 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: Well? 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 2: All right, well, I know you're a huge Katy Perry fan. 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 3: Right, Well not really. 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 2: Well, you're at least familiar with the twenty seventeen songs 8 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 2: she did with Migos called Bone Appetite, right like big One. No, real, 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 2: this is it. We may need to do a different episode. 10 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: That's fine. I know it's no firework. But the whole 11 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 2: song is basically this extended metaphor. You didn't know she 12 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: was into this, right, extended metaphors where Katy Perry is 13 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:41,159 Speaker 2: describing herself as a delicious meal in lots of creative ways, 14 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 2: and at one point in the song, she says, I'm 15 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,840 Speaker 2: a five star Michelin, a five star Micheline Mengo. 16 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: Five stars is really confident. 17 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 2: No, it's not confident. It's ridiculous because the Micheline star 18 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 2: rating only goes up to three stars. And poor Katy 19 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 2: Perry actually didn't realize that sousicians don't fact check their songs. 20 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 2: I know, it's very very disappointing. 21 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: So wait, well, why does Michelin only use three stars 22 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: and not like five or ten. 23 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 2: Well, the Michelin Star system is full of all kinds 24 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 2: of arbitrary, opaque, and frankly mystifying rules, and it's kind 25 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: of its whole thing. That's why they do this, and 26 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: that's what we're getting into in this episode. 27 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: Or in the words of Katy Perry Bone Petite. 28 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 3: I knew you were a big fan. 29 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Part Time Genius. I'm will and as always, 30 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 2: I'm here with my good friend Mango, and somewhere behind 31 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: that big booth is our pal Dylan, who I think 32 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: is trolling us because he's decorated that booth with all 33 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: these posters of the see I think I see the 34 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: Pillsbury dough Boy, the Staypuff marshmallow Man, even that character 35 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: from what was it, Big Hero six, Big Hero six? 36 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,959 Speaker 1: Pretty It is definitely trolling us because he's got every 37 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 1: other white puffy character from pop culture except the Michelin Man. Also, 38 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: where did he get so many Pilsburg Dobles. 39 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 2: He's impressive. He's very into like the you know, finding 40 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 2: the sales. 41 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's probably where he really goes all out. 42 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 2: Well, I'm really excited to be doing this show together, 43 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:27,920 Speaker 2: but I'm curious what made you think to do this 44 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 2: episode on Michelin Stars. 45 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: So I watched this Bradley Cooper movie on a flight. 46 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 3: It's called Burnt. 47 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: You've seen it, And there's this whole thing where they're 48 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: talking about how to spot these like elite reviewers from 49 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: Michelin whatever, and they come in pairs and order in 50 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: specific ways, and I kind of want to see how 51 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: much of. 52 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 2: That was true. So that was part of it. 53 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: Plus, I know your parents are foodies and they used 54 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: to have all those menus on their porch from restaurants. 55 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 2: I willed it. 56 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just thought it to be a fun topic. 57 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited to dive in. So why don't we 58 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 2: go back to the beginning just to think about where 59 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: the name comes from. So basically, we're going way back 60 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 2: to eighteen eighty nine and Michelin started out as a 61 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 2: tire manufacturing company, which I think a lot of people know, 62 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 2: but it was the brothers Andre and Eduard Michelin, and 63 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 2: they took over their grandfather's struggling manufacturing business and they 64 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: started producing tires and they were really clever, so they 65 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 2: pat into this removable pneumatic bike tire. They invented the 66 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: first automobile tire, and they even made rubber train. 67 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: Tires, tires for trains. 68 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 2: That's supposedly why the Paris Metro used to be so quiet. 69 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 2: I'd never heard of this before, but just then, looking 70 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: to this, it's pretty neat and it doesn't screech like 71 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 2: New York's. But anyway, in eighteen eighty nine, Michelin debuts 72 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 2: their puffy mascot, the Michelin Man. Way back in eighteen 73 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: eighty nine. 74 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, as Dylan pointed out, looks a whole lot like 75 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: the stay Puffed guy from Ghostbusters. 76 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 2: Yep, except he's not made of marshmallows. He's actually made 77 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 2: of tires. And apparently Michelin tires used to be white. 78 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 2: And one day Eduard looked at this pile of tires 79 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: and he was like, hey, Andre, if that pile of 80 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: tires had arms, it will look like a man. So yeah, 81 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 2: that's that's how this stuff comes to life. 82 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess anything's a mascot if you 83 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 1: put arms on it. 84 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: And they had this kind of funny concept for it. 85 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: They named their tire man Bibindam because that comes from 86 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 2: the Latin phrase nunc s bibindum which means now is 87 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 2: the time to drink. Because in these earliest ads, if 88 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: you look at them, he's actually holding up this goblet 89 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 2: of nails and broken glass, because the whole concept was 90 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: they wanted to show that michelin tires were unfazed by 91 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: obstacles on the road. 92 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: So in this super weird scenario, he's drinking nails and 93 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: broken glass. 94 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 2: Yes, the tire man, that's what it is. 95 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: Okay, So Michelin man is like this well fed, indestructible 96 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 1: bon Vivonne, the kind of guy who can eatn drink 97 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: all day and night and just keep going. 98 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 2: It's such as it's impressive. Yeah, it's a very French 99 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: illustration of longevity. So anyway, in nineteen hundred, Michelin begins 100 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 2: publishing these free travel guides to France and eventually they 101 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 2: make guides for other parts of Europe. And it's a 102 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: pretty smart play because Michelin's basically acting like tourism pioneers, 103 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 2: so they're encouraging ordinary people to take longer and longer 104 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,280 Speaker 2: road trips. As you know, of course, helps boost hire sales, 105 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 2: and from the beginning of these tourism road trip guys 106 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 2: included restaurant recommendations. 107 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: So I guess these early French travelers weren't like eating 108 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: handfuls of Twizzlers or beef jerky on they. 109 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: Really missing out, really really missing out. And Michelin was 110 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: smart about their review system too. The reviews were always 111 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 2: conducted anonymously, and so this gave Micheline this extra layer 112 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 2: of credibility with customers. They weren't just handing out good 113 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: reviews to friends. Then you fast forward to nineteen twenty 114 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 2: six when the stars first began appearing. So this is 115 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: a quarter of a century later, but at that time 116 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 2: they're all awarded to restaurants in France, and so initially 117 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 2: they were just starred and non starred restaurants. But then 118 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 2: in the nineteen thirties, Michelin created the three star system 119 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: that remains in place today. 120 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 1: So there's no real reason that's three stars. 121 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 2: They just kind of decided that. I mean, they're French, 122 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 2: so they have to do something. It's a little different. 123 00:05:58,080 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever been to a Michelin 124 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 2: star restaurant, Mango a one or two or I got 125 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: a three Mango. 126 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: Listen, Milo's a three star restaurant. 127 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 2: The fast food burger joint. I think it was two stars, 128 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: and still they started putting that extra nub of meat 129 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 2: on the paddy. It's just a little bonus nub, and 130 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 2: then that got them to three. No, actually I don't 131 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 2: think they have any stars mego. 132 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: So I think what's funny about the whole Michelin Star 133 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: thing is how vague the distinctions are between sort of 134 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 1: the one, two and three star establishments. 135 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 2: What do you mean by that? 136 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: So apparently one Michelin Star is award to restaurants using 137 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: top quality ingredients, where dishes with these distinct flavors are 138 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: prepared to a consistently high standard. 139 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: Yeah that sounds good. 140 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it totally sounds good. And then two Michelin Stars 141 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: are awarded when the personality and talent of the chef 142 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: are evident in these expertly crafted dishes and their food 143 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: is refined and inspired. 144 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 2: M hm also sounds good, m H. 145 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: And three Michelin Stars, the highest award, is given for 146 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: the superlative cooking of chefs at the peak of their profession. 147 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 1: The cooking is to an art form, and some of 148 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: their dishes are destined to become classics. 149 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,559 Speaker 2: That also sounds good. Mengo like system that's the things. 150 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 1: They all sound good, I mean, and they also kind 151 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: of sound the same, right, like like one star is good, 152 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: two stars is more good, and three stars is just 153 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: like more and more good. 154 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: Seriously, it's good. 155 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, So how do you eat a meal and decide 156 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: that the food is refined and inspired versus you know, 157 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: a meal that's an art form, right? How do they 158 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: even make these judgments? 159 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad you asked that, mango. 160 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like I set you off. 161 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: So the judging is done by anonymous Michelin inspectors, all 162 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: of whom work full time and have prior restaurant and 163 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: hospitality experience. Multiple inspectors dine at a restaurant under consideration 164 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 2: and then they talk about these ratings together, so it's 165 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 2: not just one person that's passing judgment on a place 166 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: after a single meal. Inspectors visit multiple times for different 167 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 2: meals with the goal of experiencing the full range of 168 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 2: the menu. So it's a really thorough process. And Michigan 169 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 2: claims there is quote no seqk mathematical formula and that 170 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 2: decor degree of formality, type of cuisine, like all of 171 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 2: that that they really don't matter, of course, there are 172 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 2: five specific criteria the judges used to award stars. So 173 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 2: here they are. The first is quality of the ingredients, 174 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: The second is the harmony of flavors. Then you have 175 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: the mastery of culinary techniques. Fourth is the personality of 176 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 2: the chef is expressed through their cuisine. And then the 177 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 2: fifth is consistency of the above but across the entire 178 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 2: menu and over time. And it's worth mentioning there's also 179 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 2: this thing called the bib Gourmand designation and it's given 180 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 2: to the most affordable restaurants that offer high value for 181 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 2: the money. And I have wondered this before, because you'll 182 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: notice this in cities. Sometimes it'll be like a diner 183 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: or something like that that'll end up with a Michelin Star. 184 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 2: I do think that's pretty cool to think they think 185 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: about it this way. But all of this judging has 186 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 2: done completely anonymously, and that just actually seems crazy to me, Like, 187 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 2: I don't understand how these inspectors could keep their identity 188 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 2: a secret if they're hopping around to all the world's 189 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: best restaurants multiple times a year. 190 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's exactly the part I wanted to dig into. 191 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: So why don't we tackle that after a break sounds good. 192 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: Welcome back to part time Genius, where we're talking about 193 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 2: Michelin stars and why chefs are so darn thirsty for them. So, Magel, 194 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,719 Speaker 2: I think you were just about to tell us how 195 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: the food criticism at Michelin works. 196 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: That's right. So in two thousand and nine, The New 197 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 1: Yorker published this profile of a New York inspector and 198 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: it's super fun and cloak and dagger. The inspector's pseudonym 199 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: was Maxine, and the first really interesting thing is that 200 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: she said, most Michelin executives don't even know who the 201 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 1: inspectors are. 202 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 2: Oh wow. 203 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: In fact, inspectors are told to keep their work secret 204 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: from their friends and even from their parents. 205 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,719 Speaker 2: I have to be honest, I don't think I could 206 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 2: keep that secret from my parents. 207 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I feel like Bill and Paulette would 208 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: definitely be dining with you and bringing everyone boxes of 209 00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 1: fancy leftovers. But Maxine revealed that she ate restaurant meals 210 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: about two hundred days per year, dinner and lunch, and 211 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: almost always alone, because inspectors really can't risk being identified 212 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: through conversations at the table. 213 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 2: I love eating out, and I love eating out at 214 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 2: good restaurants, but two hundred days a year I have to, 215 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 2: and especially like by yourself most of the time. That 216 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 2: kind of seems like torture. 217 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: I know. It's almost like work travel, Like as a kid, 218 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: you think it's going to be so exciting, like on 219 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: the road in hotels and stuff, and then you do 220 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 1: it for a few months and it kind of loses 221 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: the charm. But at Michelin, the system is almost set 222 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: up like this secret service. So Maxine said when she 223 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 1: was being considered for the job, she had to eat 224 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: several meals under supervision of inspectors who operated like spies. 225 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: And this is her quote. You never know the name 226 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: of the person you're meeting, You never know where their 227 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: meeting until right before, so they call you up and 228 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: say meet me at the corner of XYZ and xyz. 229 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 2: So dramatic, like you kind of forget for a second 230 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 2: we're talking about food, like it seems like a national 231 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,839 Speaker 2: security thing, but it's really like who has the best 232 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 2: pork belly. 233 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, And aspiring inspectors also have to attend a secret 234 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: Michelin training course in France and then they have to 235 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: complete all this additional still anonymous training in another country, 236 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: and then they do a three to six month still 237 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: very anonymous apprenticeship with a more senior inspector. So another 238 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: anonymous inspector from a twenty seventeen Food and Wine article 239 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: did shed a little bit of light on what happens here. 240 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: He said, we always order three courses, an appetizer and 241 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: entree and dessert, and we try to pick items that 242 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: are the best representation of the menu concept or chef's talents. 243 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: But of course, despite Michelin's best efforts, in December two 244 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: thousand and three, there was this big tell all. 245 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 2: I was hoping you would get to a tell all. 246 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, you kind of have to hope for it. So 247 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: this book comes out from this inspector in Pascal Remy, 248 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: who was fired after revealing that he'd kept a diary 249 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: of his career, and he planned to publish this book. 250 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: And so the book is called The Inspector Sits Down 251 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: at the Table, and it was published in France in 252 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,559 Speaker 1: April two thousand and four, and it caused a huge stir. 253 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: One journalist from France called it a storm and a 254 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: saucepan A storm. 255 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 2: I kind of love that. 256 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great, right, it's also a good description of Ruby. 257 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: But Remy alleged some pretty wild stuff in this book, 258 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: all of which Michelin disputes. He said that despite publishing 259 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 1: new guides with updated ratings every year, Michelin didn't actually 260 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: visit or revisit every restaurant annually, which is a huge 261 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: scandal right in part because there aren't enough inspectors. Remy 262 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: wrote that there were only five inspectors in all of 263 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: France as of two thousand and three when he was writing, 264 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,719 Speaker 1: which is not nearly enough to cover the country's ten 265 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: thousand restaurants. He also said there's some three star restaurants 266 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: which were secretly deemed untouchable, so like, under no circumstance 267 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: could they lose their talpeting. Even though Remi claimed more 268 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: than a third of the guide's three star rated establishments 269 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: didn't actually meet the three star criteria. 270 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:09,719 Speaker 2: I feel like that's a really bad look for a 271 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 2: rating system that's supposed to be, you know, super objective 272 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 2: and impartial for this whole history of its existence. But 273 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 2: when you have something like a Michelin star that sought 274 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 2: after and means so much to these restaurants, there's definitely 275 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 2: going to be some fallout from this. 276 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: So what are you thinking about right now? 277 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 2: Well, for example, obviously, getting a Michelin star can catapult 278 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 2: a restaurant into fame in many cases bring these huge profits. 279 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 2: But losing a star, and I had not really thought 280 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 2: about this before, but it can bring just the opposite 281 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 2: of that effect. So Thornton's at the Fitzwilliam Hotel, a 282 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 2: high end Dublin restaurant, lost its Michelin star back in 283 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, and it maintained this star for two decades, 284 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 2: and when it did, profits dropped by seventy six percent 285 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 2: by the end of twenty sixteen. Yeah, and actually the 286 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: place ended up having to close after that. And as 287 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 2: the chef, Kevin Thornton told The Irish Independent, losing the 288 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 2: star felt like quote getting stabbed in the heart. I mean, 289 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 2: it means so much to these people. In fact, one chef, 290 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 2: Bernard Lazeau, was so terrified of losing his three Micheline 291 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 2: stars that it may have actually contributed to his two 292 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 2: thousand and three suicide. 293 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: That's really terrible. 294 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. I mean he'd been running this 295 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: Burgundy restaurant called Lecouteur, where he had actually gotten a 296 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 2: third Michelin Star in nineteen ninety one, but in two 297 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 2: thousand and three, this French newspaper Le Figaro published this 298 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 2: rumor and claimed that he was slated to lose his 299 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 2: third star, and his widow told The Observer that the 300 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: rumor had a real impact on her husband because he 301 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:46,359 Speaker 2: feared that losing a star would have these devastating financial consequences. 302 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 2: But one of the saddest parts of the story is 303 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 2: after his death, the two thousand and three Michelin Guide 304 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 2: gave the restaurant its usual three stars. That is so sad, 305 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 2: it really is. But it's not just losing a star 306 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 2: that can have negative consequences for a restaurant. Even getting 307 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: a star can throw a place into turmoil. So it's 308 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 2: an example of that. After being listed in the twenty 309 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 2: sixteen Hong Kong Guide, there was this dessert shop called 310 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 2: Kai Kai Dessert that was forced to move because its 311 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 2: landlord got greedy and thinking that it would bring this 312 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 2: new spike in business, he raised the rent by one 313 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty percent, which is awful. Yeah, and the 314 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 2: owners did get lucky though there was this loyal customer 315 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 2: that offered them rent in a nearby space at a 316 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 2: rent that he could afford. But the Michelin Star branding 317 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 2: can be especially tough on small establishments that don't have 318 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 2: the capital or the capacity to meet this sudden demand 319 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 2: that comes with a rating. Like seventy two year old Jafi, 320 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 2: who earned a Michelin Star in twenty seventeen for her 321 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: cooking at an open air street food restaurant in Bangkok. 322 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 2: So the award made her this overnight celebrity, which is great, 323 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: but she was one of only seventeen chefs in Thailand 324 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 2: with a star, and a few months later she actually 325 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 2: told a reporter she wanted to give the star back. 326 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: Can you actually give a starback? 327 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 2: Not really? But if I explain that her restaurant's vibes 328 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 2: had been super relaxed before and the star had basically 329 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 2: turned it into chaos, I actually feel like I've experienced 330 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 2: this before at restaurants when they seem so good and 331 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 2: suddenly they gained this notoriety and that experience has just 332 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:24,359 Speaker 2: changed totally. So the award made her this overnight celebrity. 333 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 2: She was the only person cooking, so suddenly there was 334 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 2: this increase in traffic, and it meant she no longer 335 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 2: had time to take breaks or chat with her diners 336 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 2: that were there, and her servers were overwhelmed from the 337 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 2: stress and just worry that neighbors on their street were 338 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: going to get angry because of the crowds and the noise. 339 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 2: But the worst part was that Jay Fi had all 340 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: these tax inspectors that started showing up seemingly because they 341 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 2: thought she must be making more money than she had reported, 342 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 2: and they kept trying to look through her books. 343 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: So it is Jay the only chef who's tried to 344 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: give these starsback. 345 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 2: Have you heard more? Not even close. So there's this 346 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: South Korean chef oh Ya Kwan got an Italian eatery 347 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 2: called Restaurante O, and it received a Michelin star in 348 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. It was a guide to soul dining there 349 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 2: and O claims that as soon as he learned this, 350 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 2: he contacted Michelin and asked to be removed, but it 351 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: unfortunately didn't work for him, and his restaurant appeared again 352 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen with a star. 353 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 1: So, I mean, I guess there's another way, right, he 354 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: could just try to lower the quality of the food 355 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: theirs out, But I mean, I guess that's not anything 356 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: any self respecting chef wants to do well. 357 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 2: In the twenty nineteen edition, oh actually did lose the star, 358 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 2: but he still appeared in the guide, at which point 359 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 2: he actually sued Michelin, not for the demotion, but for 360 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 2: including his restaurant at all. There was this CNN interview 361 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 2: that he did and he explained that the guide's methodology 362 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 2: was part of the problem. It's the cruelest test in 363 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 2: the world, he says. It forces the chefs to work 364 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 2: around a year waiting for a test, and they don't 365 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 2: know when and it's coming. I mean, I do love 366 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 2: that there's this rating system to help guide me as 367 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 2: this outsider, especially in cities that I don't know. 368 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,439 Speaker 1: But you can see how it's hard on chefs. And 369 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 1: also there have been strange stories that make you question 370 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: the objectivity and fairness of the organization, like apparently Michelin 371 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: inspectors are supposed to visit a restaurant several times before 372 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: they raid it, but in two thousand and five, for 373 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: the first time in history, Michelin was actually forced to 374 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: recall one of its guides. The two thousand and five 375 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: guide covering Belgium, the Netherlands in Luxembourg, was pulled after 376 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: fifty thousand copies had already been published, and the reason 377 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 1: was that this Belgian restaurant, the Austin Queen, had been 378 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: given that bib Gorman designation, you know, the one for 379 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: like great cheap food, but the restaurant hadn't actually opened 380 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: yet loops. So you know, there's also this issue of 381 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: investors in the Michelin Guide. The whole thing is a 382 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: really expensive enterprise, and so like you're talking about these 383 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: big tabs from fine dining restaurants plus printing up the 384 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: actual guide. So some Michelin guides are the result of 385 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: investments from the countries themselves. Michelin guides to Thailand and 386 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: Singapore and Hong Kong are actually backed in part by 387 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: payments from the local tourism boards, which totally makes sense, 388 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: but the sums are pretty impressive. Like Thailand paid supposedly 389 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: four point four million dollars to be paid out over 390 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: the course of five years to fund like multiple editions 391 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: of the Michelin Thailand Guide. 392 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 2: That is a lot of money. 393 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, and corporate sponsors can get involved too, like to 394 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: launch the Hong Kong Guide in two thousand and eight, 395 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: Michelin got funding from several brands, including Evian Espresso, Robert 396 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: Parker Wine Advocate, which Michelin owns a stake in, And 397 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: while the details are kind of scarce, it kind of 398 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: makes it hard to verify if government or corporate money 399 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: is influencing Michelin Stars and if they are, what extent 400 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,119 Speaker 1: are they actually having their influence met? 401 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 2: I mean, I have to guess this is not zero. 402 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the website Eater connected some of the 403 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: dots for Michelin Singapore g and so there's this Resorts 404 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: World Sentosa and they acted as a title sponsor the 405 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: guide and hosted this invitation only gala for the launch 406 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: of the twenty sixteen Singapore Stars Guide and after that 407 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: for the resort's restaurants also happened to snag seven of 408 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: those coveted Stars. 409 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 2: So, I mean, it could be a coincidence. Probably not. 410 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: There's also been an issue with Michelin and greenwashing. So 411 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty, Michelin added a new designation to the 412 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: Stars and the bib Gourmond and they call it the 413 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: Green Star. Supposedly it honors quote restaurants that are role 414 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: models when it comes to sustainable astronomy. 415 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 2: So what exactly does that mean. 416 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it sounds great, but it's pretty unclear 417 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,200 Speaker 1: what it actually indicates. So there's this chef Chris Polisi 418 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,120 Speaker 1: who wrote in this deleted blog now that the Green 419 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: Star review process consisted of one brief call to his restaurant. 420 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: There wasn't an in person audit or a detailed questionnaire, 421 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: and as he put it, there wasn't even quote a 422 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: critical question of any type. And then there's this other chef, 423 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: Matt Orlando, who agreed, and he told Wired there was 424 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: absolutely no fact checking during his Green Star review. I 425 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,639 Speaker 1: could have said anything and it would have qualified me 426 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: for the ward. 427 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 2: I'm just shocked by this. 428 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: So Michelin says, our teams rely both on their field work, 429 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: i e. On the experience of eating in that restaurant, 430 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 1: as well as in depth research and conversations with restaurant 431 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: tours regarding their eco responsible practices. So that's their defense. 432 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 2: I actually didn't think we could get more vague than 433 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 2: refined and inspired versus elevated to an art form, But 434 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 2: here we are. Mago. 435 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a pattern, but the near total secrecy around 436 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: this review process, especially the process by which stars are 437 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: given and taken away means it's kind of impossible to 438 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: know if Michelin is being fair or what other factors, 439 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: whether that's money or connections or sponsorship, is actually playing 440 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: a role. And for diners and chefs, you really don't 441 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: know if the reviews are done by people familiar with 442 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:00,120 Speaker 1: local cuisines. 443 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 2: Right right, actually on that local cuisine tip. It's worth 444 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 2: noting that even though in recent years Michelin has expanded 445 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 2: coverage beyond Europe and European cooking, some have definitely criticized 446 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 2: it for retaining an overly European lens that South Korea 447 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 2: and chef oh Ya Kwan, the guy who wanted to 448 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 2: give his starback you remember him, said that the entire 449 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 2: Soul Guide was suspect and quote a sad joke since 450 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 2: it only included one hundred and seventy of the city's restaurants. 451 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 2: So writing in Vogue Korea, one food writer explained, the 452 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 2: only people who really care about having the Michelin Guide 453 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,719 Speaker 2: in Seoul are those who are obsessed with Soul's international status. 454 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 2: Like they're obsessed with impressing Western elites. They aren't confident 455 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 2: that Soul can stand on its own as a restaurant capital. 456 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: So is there Michelin on other continents? 457 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 2: Well? So far, Michelin's presence in South and Latin America 458 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 2: is pretty new and rather limited. And it doesn't seem 459 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 2: aware that Africa exists just yet. Somebody should tell them 460 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 2: about Africa. 461 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 1: I also noticed that you didn't mention Antarctica. 462 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 2: It's a real snub, to be honest with you. But 463 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 2: the research station near this one ice dome supposedly has 464 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 2: just the most amazing papoosas. 465 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: So they're missing out. Well before we sign off, maybe. 466 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 2: We do a quick backup. 467 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: Absolutely, how about we start with the world's most remote 468 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: Michelin star restaurant. This two star restaurant called Cox in Elimanok, 469 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: a tiny settlement on Disco Bay in Greenland. The town 470 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,959 Speaker 1: has a population of fifty six, but the restaurant's staff 471 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: has brought that up to eighty eight now and today. 472 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: It's accessible by boat in the fall and summer, but 473 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: in the winter and spring, when icebergs clogged the bay, 474 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: you can only get there by helicopter. 475 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 2: Wow, And so what can you get there? 476 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: There's a tasting menu that includes more than twenty courses 477 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: and it costs about four hundred and seventy dollars or 478 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: thirty two hundred Danish kroner, which I. 479 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 2: Know you didn't have to do that conversion. Yeah, I knew. 480 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: The food is all locally sourced, and you get dishes 481 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: like raw whale skin marinated in currant leaf oil, musk 482 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: ox broth, reindeer tartar with moss and fermented mushroom comfort food, 483 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: and tarmiguan with black currant salsa. 484 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, well, speaking of one of Michelin's cheapest restaurants. 485 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 2: Back in two thousand and nine, the dim sum restaurant 486 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: Tim ho Wan opened in Hong Kong and set the 487 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 2: world on fire, and within just a year it received 488 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 2: a Michelin Star, becoming the world's most inexpensive Michelin starred restaurant. 489 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 2: But almost as quickly it expanded beyond its humble roots, 490 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 2: and today Tim Howan is a multi national chain with 491 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 2: locations in twelve countries, including two where you live in 492 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 2: New York City, which is maybe the best way of 493 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,960 Speaker 2: dealing with the headache of getting a star anyway. Tim 494 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 2: Howan Hong Kong no longer has a Michelin Star, but 495 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 2: it does have the BIB gourmand as a nation. 496 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was actually reading about another one of these 497 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: cheap eats. The Michelin twenty sixteen guide for Singapore, which 498 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: was their inaugural guide there, gave this star to a 499 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: street food hawker for the first time. The person's name 500 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: was Leo Fan and the restaurant is Hong Kong Seya 501 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: Sauce Chicken, Rice and Noodle, and it also claimed to 502 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: be the most inexpensive Michelin Star restaurant for a while. 503 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: It's famous sey sauce chicken dish cost about two dollars. 504 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: But just like your chef, Tim Howan quickly used that 505 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 1: star to open up a slew of franchises. 506 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, not surprising. So I know we talked about all 507 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 2: these chefs trying to give back their stars, but there 508 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 2: are plenty who lose stars and desperately want them back, 509 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 2: including the French chef Mark Verrat. So in twenty nineteen, 510 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 2: Verat lost this lawsuit he brought against Michelin after the 511 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 2: guide demoted his restaurant from three stars down to two. 512 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 2: And the thing is he wasn't actually asking for the 513 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 2: star to be reinstated, but he was trying to get 514 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 2: Michelin to provide the names and resumes of the inspectors 515 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 2: who graded him, as well as proof that they had 516 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 2: in fact eaten at his restaurant. And for their part, 517 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 2: Michelin refused, saying they had to protect their inspector's and anonymity, 518 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 2: but that the demotion was based on one detail. Verat 519 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 2: used English Cheddar in his soioux flet, I mean just 520 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 2: a big mistake, choose mistake. So for his part, Verrot 521 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 2: insisted that he had never done any such thing, and 522 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,959 Speaker 2: in fact, he showed the court a video of the 523 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 2: soufflet's preparation. It used two French cheeses, Beaufort and Roblachan, 524 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 2: and Verat told CNN, I'm ready to accept losing a star, 525 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 2: but they have to tell me why. In my opinion, 526 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 2: they are incompetent. Do you realize they mixed up Roblachan 527 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 2: and Cheddar. I mean, my god, can you imagine this? 528 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 2: So the court ruled against Verat, saying there was no 529 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 2: proof that he and his business had suffered any damage 530 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 2: from the demotion, and to be fair, it does feel 531 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 2: like if you've got the sophisticated palette of a Michelin chef, 532 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 2: it is hard to mix up cheddar and robleish on 533 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 2: which is this soft, squishy cheese that kind of looks 534 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 2: like brie or Beaufort, which is basically a type of griere. 535 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 2: And I feel like this is probably a conspiracy that 536 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 2: we can investigate in a different episode cheese controversies. 537 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: Well, I really like that last fact, and I think 538 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to give you today's trophy. 539 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 2: Oh that's so kind of you. All right, I'm going 540 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 2: to place this on Dylan's desk for all of those 541 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 2: pills very dope boys to admire. That's it for today's 542 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 2: Part Time Genius. If you like the show, make sure 543 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,199 Speaker 2: to tell every single person you know, seriously, every single person, 544 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 2: but thank you for listening. 545 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius is a production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. 546 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: This show is hosted by Will Pearson and Ni mongaish 547 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: heatique and research by our goodpal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's 548 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,840 Speaker 1: episode was engineered and produced by the wonderful Dylan Fagan 549 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: with support from Tyler Klang. The show is executive produced 550 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: for iHeart by Katrina Norvell and Ali Perry, with social 551 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,479 Speaker 1: media support from Sasha Gay trustee Dara Potts and Viny Shorey. 552 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 553 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.