1 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast feature and conversations 2 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: with industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. 3 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: I'm Cynthia Lyttleton, co editor in chief of Variety. RUSS 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: and I sat down on February fifth, just a few 5 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: days before the industry begins its latest round of collective 6 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 1: bargaining on February ninth. For a change, the Director's Guild 7 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: of America will not be the first in to negotiate 8 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: terms with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers. 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: That role falls to SAG after this year. Hollander, in 10 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: a very wide ranging interview, explains why the DGA is 11 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: not up first this time, and he addresses all of 12 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: the major issues that will be on the table this year. 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: From It's very clear that Hollywood is fighting wars on 14 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: many fronts. The health plans that cover most of the 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: creative community are weighed down by what RUSS calls raging 16 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: healthcare inflation. At the same time, the expansion of tools 17 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: and content creation is creating vexing issues around copyright protection 18 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: and creative consent. And then there's the wave of consolidation 19 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: amongst studios and the sharp downturn in TV and film 20 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: production jobs in the US, let alone in southern California. 21 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: It's very clear from the interview that drop is the 22 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: most pressing concern for the DGA, and why Hollander describes 23 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: the guild's number one priority this time around as jobs, jobs, jobs. 24 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: In all, it's a great conversation. Hollander is not afraid 25 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: to address all of the major issues swirling around the guild. 26 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 1: He's worked for the DJA for more than twenty five years, 27 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: and he's had the top job since twenty seventeen. Russ Hollander, 28 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,559 Speaker 1: National Executive Director of the Director's Guild of America, thank 29 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: you so much for having me in this stunning conference 30 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: room with an incredible view of the West Hollywood Hills. 31 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 2: That's how pleasure to have you here. Cynthia, thank you 32 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 2: for inviting me to be on the podcast. I look 33 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: forward to the conversation. 34 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 3: It's a truly fraught time for the entertainment business. You 35 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 3: can literally feel the winds of change around us, and 36 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 3: there's no shortage of everything from media M and A 37 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 3: to disruptive technologies to we're seeing the massive swings in 38 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 3: consumer behavior and how people interact with movies and TV shows. 39 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 3: So a lot going on, but your big focus in 40 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 3: the next couple of months is going to be on 41 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 3: the next round of union contract negotiations with the Alliance 42 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 3: of Motion Picture and Television Producers. And it's interesting because 43 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 3: the DGA has a very long established reputation of really 44 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 3: going in early, talking to the AMPTP, getting the key 45 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 3: issues on the table, and very often coming to an 46 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 3: agreement well before there's any time pressure of TikTok. Obviously, 47 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 3: other unions to often take a different tack, but the 48 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 3: DGA has always had this very considered process, and this 49 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 3: time around, unusually in recent memory, the DGA is not 50 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 3: going to be the first in to sit with the AMPTP. 51 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 3: That will be SAG after it, and that happens on Monday, 52 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 3: February ninth. So as we sit here on Thursday, February fifth, 53 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 3: from a purely logistics and strategic standpoint, how do you 54 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 3: think that will affect the deal that the DGA winds 55 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 3: up with. 56 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 2: I read a lot of stuff about our negotiations and 57 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 2: our approach to negotiations, so I'd like to take the 58 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 2: opportunity to clarify when we make the decisions and how 59 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 2: we make the decision when to go. But first I 60 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: want to start with that it's actually not true that 61 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 2: we are always the first union to go. I've been 62 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: with the guild since two thousand and one. We've had 63 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: eight rounds of negotiations leading up to this one. The 64 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 2: detail only went first three times in those eight rounds. 65 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 3: I stand correct. 66 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: We do have a philosophy of looking to try to 67 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: maximize our leverage and negotiations, and so we do an 68 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 2: assessment over the value of doing an early negotiation versus 69 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 2: negotiation negotiating closer to the deadline of our contract, where 70 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 2: the studios are willing to provide a premium for the 71 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: benefit of getting an early agreement in labor stability, it 72 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 2: makes sense to go first piece It helps us achieve 73 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 2: things that we might not otherwise be able achieve due 74 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 2: to that premium. When that premium is not there, we 75 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 2: go later in the cycle. We also coordinate with which 76 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 2: is something people forget about, but we're constantly in coordination 77 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: and speaking to our sister guilds. We talk to SAG 78 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 2: after we talk to the Writers Guild. We invite them 79 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 2: in early on to have a discussion over the order 80 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 2: and timing of negotiations and all this is done in 81 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 2: that vein, and we also talk to the producers. We 82 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 2: talked to the AMPTP president in this case, Greg, but 83 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: we also talk to the other people at the companies 84 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 2: and then we make an assessment about what is best 85 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 2: to go with respect for our sister guilds and unions. 86 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: And so this round, it turns out that SAG is 87 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: going first, that they start on Monday. I've spoke to 88 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 2: Duncan yesterday. We're here to support them and wish them 89 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: the best they can do in their negotiations. It's very 90 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 2: important for us to see them and the writers succeed 91 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: in negotiations. We'll be there to support them. I'll be 92 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 2: there in a first day, and when the Writer's Guild 93 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 2: comes up, we'll do that then. But in the end, 94 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: I think the order of negotiations is based upon strategic 95 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 2: decisions and what my focus is going to be to 96 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 2: negotiate the best agreement that I can. And I'm extremely 97 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 2: confident that the end of the day, we're going to 98 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: walk out of that room at the AMPTP with a 99 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 2: contract that the negotiating committee, the board, the membership are 100 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: proud of. 101 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 3: In your discussions this year with the sibling guilds. Was 102 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 3: that a negotiation or did the timing kind of fall organically? 103 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: It's more of sharing information with each other when we 104 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 2: each make our independent decisions. And the way it worked 105 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 2: out this year was say going early or first. I 106 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: don't know if you consider this early, but being the 107 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 2: first union and the writers are in what I would 108 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 2: consider that traditional window and us being later in the cycle. 109 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,239 Speaker 3: And let me just ask you very bluntly, obviously, twenty 110 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 3: twenty three was extremely difficult. The town was on strike 111 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 3: for almost seven months. There was no doubt there was 112 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 3: strain between the WJA and sag Aftra which did go 113 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 3: out for many months, and the DGA, which did not. 114 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 3: How are the relations right now between the three guild We. 115 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 2: Have always worked closely with them and coordinated with them. 116 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 2: It was a very tumultuous period the last negotiation, but 117 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 2: going to it, I'm proud of what we achieved. We 118 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: went in to that negotiation in twenty twenty three dealing 119 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 2: with some very specific issues, and when I look back 120 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 2: at that what we negotiated, we got the largest way 121 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 2: to increase that any entertainment union had seen in decades. 122 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: We achieved what was one of our primary goals and 123 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 2: dealing with the foreign residual for programs made for SPAT, 124 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 2: by increasing that residual by seventy six percent. I mean, 125 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 2: just stop and think about what a seventy six percent 126 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 2: increase in anything is. We dealt with AI, which had 127 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: come up as we were negotiating, and we were the 128 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 2: first union, not only in the entertainment industry, but any 129 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 2: union anywhere to get to negotiate the provisions that dealt 130 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: with AI and respected and protected our jobs and importantly 131 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: for our creative rights negotiations. We did a tremendous job 132 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 2: in improving the director's participation in post production, in getting 133 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: them more involved creatively into finished product, among other things. 134 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 2: And so I look back at that and that was 135 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: something that I think was a great achievement, something that 136 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: we're proud of, something we intend to build on all 137 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 2: of this. Our goal is to get the best agreement 138 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: we can to support our sister gills and unions and 139 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 2: getting the best agreements that they can get, and they 140 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 2: do the same for us, and that's what we expect 141 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:12,559 Speaker 2: to happen this round. 142 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 3: As you prepare to sit down in May, what are 143 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 3: the top priorities for you this time around. 144 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: We have a pretty clear focus this time. Number one 145 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 2: priority is jobs. I might say number one, two, and 146 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 2: three priorities of jobs, but I'll just say jobs, jobs, 147 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 2: Jobs is number one priority. Healthcare is a big priority, 148 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 2: building upon what we did last time with AI is 149 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 2: a significant priority, and we always have a number of 150 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 2: residual issues that we'd have to address. So that's in 151 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 2: terms of the big topics what we're focusing on. 152 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 3: What are you hearing from your members about the jobs 153 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,719 Speaker 3: picture in going into twenty twenty six here versus what 154 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 3: it was and you know end of twenty two, going 155 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 3: into twenty twenty three when you were last having those negotiations. 156 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 2: The job's picture is very, very troubling. You know, I 157 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: was trying to think of other words, but whatever it is, 158 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 2: it's a real problem. As you know, we track and 159 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 2: have enormous amounts of data. Our research department is extremely busy. 160 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 2: We buy a lot of data. And what we're seeing 161 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 2: is and I'll start with twenty twenty four. In twenty 162 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 2: twenty four, there was a worldwide drop in the production 163 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 2: of television shows by about thirty five to forty percent 164 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 2: from twenty twenty two, feature films were down about eight 165 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 2: to twelve percent. The preliminary data we have for twenty 166 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 2: twenty five is that the television data is even worse 167 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 2: than twenty twenty four. Features have recovered a little bit. 168 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: That is one of the things and why I said jobs, jobs, jobs, 169 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 2: We need to address that, and it's not just a 170 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 2: collective marketing issue, it's also legislative issue. One of the 171 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 2: things that we're focusing on is international production. And to 172 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 2: be clear, we're talk when we're talking about international production 173 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 2: with talking about US base projects that shoot outside the 174 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 2: United States to take advantage of tax and centives from 175 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 2: foreign company countries. 176 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 3: Everybody's on a plane to London, Australia, somewhere in Europe. 177 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 2: But this isn't a new problem, you know. That's one 178 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,239 Speaker 2: of the things I think that it's getting a mistaken 179 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 2: is we were dealing with this at the turn of 180 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 2: the century. We were lobbying in Congress, and I think 181 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: you're probably aware of it. We were in lobbying Congress 182 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 2: for federal tax incentives. It resulted in Section one eighty one, 183 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 2: which provided some help, but not nearly the help that 184 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 2: we needed in the industry and We've been watching this 185 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 2: go on for the past twenty years. Our data is 186 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 2: that production is down throughout the world. It's just down 187 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 2: more in the United States. But given the reduction in 188 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: the United States, every job that we lose is it 189 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 2: takes on more significance. So we've been working at the 190 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 2: state and federal level to try to address the issue there. 191 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 2: We had a great victory in California, working together with 192 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 2: all of the other unions, largely led by Rereka Ryan, 193 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 2: who is Associate National Executive Director here and serves as 194 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: the president of the Entertainment Union coalition, worked in partnerships 195 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 2: with SAEG, after with the Writers Guild, the IA, the Teamsters, Laborers, 196 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 2: Musicians and managed to increase the incentive in California to 197 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 2: seven hundred and fifty million dollars. 198 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 3: The state's incentive packaging. 199 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 2: Similarly, in New York, Neil Dudich, who's also an associate 200 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 2: National executive Director, worked with a coalition of unions there 201 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 2: to improve the New York state incentive, and we're working 202 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 2: in the same coalition at unions on a federal basis. 203 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 2: This started before the election to try to get a 204 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: federal tax incentive passed because we realize that with what's 205 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 2: going on outside the United States that if we could 206 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 2: get a federal tax incentive that's stackable on state incentives, 207 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,719 Speaker 2: then the US becomes far more if in a lot 208 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 2: of that work comes home. 209 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 3: And you think that would really change the margins in 210 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 3: terms of the volume of activity that is going outside 211 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 3: of the US. 212 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 2: I think it would be a complete game changer. They're 213 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 2: chasing incentives, they would rather at companies. I think mostly 214 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 2: would rather shoot here. They just need to level that 215 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 2: playing field. And we're also finding not just on the incentive, 216 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 2: we have currency exchange rate differences and other things, but 217 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,079 Speaker 2: it would make a huge difference to get death federal 218 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:29,119 Speaker 2: incentive pasted. 219 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 3: In the process of getting California's sweetened package last year, 220 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 3: or you must have had conversations with Gavin Newsom about 221 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 3: the crux of the issue. Do you think that Gavin 222 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 3: Usom and Sacramento understand the nuance and the urgency right now? 223 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 2: I think they do. 224 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 3: Adam Shift, California's Senator, has legislation right now pending in 225 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 3: the Senate for a federal tax incentive. Given this Congress, 226 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 3: I don't think a lot of people are holding their 227 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 3: breath what do you think are the purely political hurdles 228 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 3: to getting that to have any kind of traction in 229 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 3: the next year or two. 230 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: Well, well, it has to be a bipartisan effort. We 231 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 2: have to be able to convince the Republicans that this 232 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 2: is an important industry and they need to support that 233 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 2: industry as much as the Democrats. In the past, it 234 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 2: was sometimes we would find more support on the Republican 235 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 2: side than the Democratic side. Just speaks of the views 236 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 2: of tax incentives. But I think things are complicated now 237 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 2: with what's going on in the country. But we need 238 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 2: to get a bipartisan bill. We're gonna have to get 239 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 2: people who have the presidents here to tell him this 240 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 2: is an important thing to sign. I don't expect it 241 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 2: to happen overnight, don't realistically think it happens this session. 242 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 2: But we have to keep pushing on it and eventually 243 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 2: this will become a reality. 244 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 3: Have you ever communicated with Trump directly on this issue? 245 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 3: I have you talked with John Voyd and the group 246 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 3: that was put together. You know, pretty soon after Trump 247 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 3: took office, he appointed some people to say we need 248 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 3: to look at that. For all the noise that surrounds 249 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 3: Washington right now. There were a lot of people in 250 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 3: Hollywood that said, hey, at least somebody's saying this is 251 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 3: really important and we need to look at it. 252 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 2: I think the last point it made in that question 253 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: is really important. Take a step back. When was the 254 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 2: last time that we were having at the federal government 255 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 2: level a true discussion over whether or not to support 256 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: film and television production. And having an incentive that this 257 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 2: is being discussed at that level is in itself a victory. 258 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 2: Now we have to use that and we have to 259 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 2: build momentum to get something past that helps the industry. 260 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 2: And just going back to the beginning of your question, Yeah, 261 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 2: we met. We met extensively with John Voyd and his team. 262 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 2: We have open dialogue with them. Some of the things 263 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 2: they have presented were things that we have talked to 264 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: them at length about. Some things they suggested we weren't 265 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 2: so lukewarm on, but that's a back and forth. But 266 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 2: we have a very open dialogue with them and communicate 267 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: regularly with him and his people. 268 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 3: Do you have any idea where that's fans? Is there 269 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 3: any real movement there? 270 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 2: Every time we hear this movement, we end up getting 271 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 2: some sort of social media posts from the President about tariffs. 272 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 2: So I think we got ways to go, but we're 273 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 2: not going to stop fighting. 274 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 3: I can hear the urgency. I know DJA really does 275 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 3: invest in a lot of great industry data. We all 276 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 3: know that there was a peak TV. You know, call 277 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 3: it ten years, twelve years, there was a peak TV 278 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 3: boom where there was just an incredible amount of investment 279 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 3: in content as companies were trying to build new streaming platforms. 280 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 3: If you look at the long term data, if you 281 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 3: go back fifteen years, is the volume still significantly down? 282 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 3: I know that's hard to answer in a context of 283 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 3: so many more platforms have emerged, But is there anything 284 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 3: in the long term data that shows that we had 285 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 3: a spike and then we had a boom and bust 286 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 3: kind of thing. 287 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 2: We were seeing a gradual build up and now measurement 288 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 2: I should stop and say that the way we measure 289 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 2: production is by the episodes of telelevision, because that's the 290 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 2: measure of employment. 291 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 3: I've read many a DGA annual report and survey. 292 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 2: For sure, it was a difference that we had with 293 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 2: some of the other data that was being put out 294 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 2: on peaked television, because if you look at the number 295 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 2: of series that were being made that peaked after the 296 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 2: number of episodes peaked, and what we saw was a 297 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 2: build up through twenty sixteen, And in twenty sixteen was 298 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 2: when the largest number of television episodes were being made, 299 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 2: and we were seeing a very very slight decline, like 300 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 2: small single digits year over year until the pandemic. It 301 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 2: dropped in the pandemic, and then it shot right back 302 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 2: up to where it would have been on that slow 303 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 2: decline after the pandemic until the strikes, and we haven't 304 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 2: seen a recovery after the strikes. That's what we've seen 305 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 2: the big drop. 306 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 3: What is the role that can be done through collective bargainings? 307 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 3: Are there elements to the contract that can be put 308 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 3: in there to incentivize and keep more production in the 309 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 3: US if not Los Angeles. 310 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 2: There are a number of things that we're going to 311 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 2: be looking at in collective marketing. Some of those I 312 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: think we should wait so that we could give them 313 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 2: to the AMPTP first, But there are things that we 314 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 2: can do in collective marketing that will definitely impact jobs 315 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 2: for our members, and we're looking at different creative ways 316 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 2: to do that. 317 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 3: In the big picture, going into the twenty twenty three negotiations, 318 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 3: it was difficult. There was still recovering from COVID. Now 319 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 3: three years later, you've got two major studios, there's a 320 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 3: lot of m and a consolidation is underway at times 321 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 3: when the industry is just an incredible flux. I would 322 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 3: imagine that really complicates labor contract negotiations. 323 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,479 Speaker 2: I don't think there as connected as you're making them sound. 324 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 2: We're very concerned about media consolidation and what potentially will 325 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 2: happen with Wantner Brothers Discovery, and that is something that 326 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 2: we've been talking to Netflix about. We've also been talking 327 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 2: to Paramount Sky. We've had lots of conversations with regulators 328 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 2: and representatives in Congress on the appropriate committees, and we're 329 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 2: doing a lot of due diligence there. We start any 330 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,959 Speaker 2: conversation on media consolidation is when you lose a buyer, 331 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 2: that's bad. When two companies combine, it almost always results 332 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 2: in less employment. So we start from a premise and 333 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 2: we would prefer not to see media consolidation, But then 334 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 2: you have to get more pragmatic and you have to 335 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 2: look at the company that's being purchased and what happens 336 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 2: to that company as a standalone company, and there are a 337 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 2: lot of people who talk about whether or not warn 338 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 2: a Brother's Discovery can survive on its own. That has 339 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 2: to be a factor in any discussion. And then you 340 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 2: have to look at who's purchasing it and what commitments 341 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 2: they're willing to make, what assurance they're doing, and analyze 342 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: that with respect to employment. That's the process we're going through, 343 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 2: and I don't guide a lot of our decision making. 344 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:00,719 Speaker 2: I think the biggest impact of an uncollectible is you 345 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 2: have people from all of those companies in the room 346 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 2: right and they don't necessarily know who they're going to 347 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 2: report to shortly after the negotiations, and I think that 348 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 2: creates a dynamic because not all the companies have the 349 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 2: same point of view. They come into the room much 350 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 2: like we do, where we have a number of different groups, 351 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 2: all of whom want certain things in our negotiation. They 352 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 2: of those things and one of the things that we 353 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 2: have to do on our side is distill them down 354 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 2: to a common set of proposals. It's something that Greg 355 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 2: has to do with the companies, but I think they're 356 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 2: essentially separate processes. We know this is going on and 357 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 2: it'll mean that if jobs are shrinking, there are other 358 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 2: things that become important that we have to pay attention to, 359 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 2: and we can look of things to impact how many 360 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 2: jobs are going to have. But I think they really 361 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,479 Speaker 2: do participate largely on separate trucks. 362 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 3: Does the DGA have a point of view on who 363 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 3: would be a better shepherd for Warner Brothers, for Netflix 364 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 3: versus paramounts guidance. 365 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: We're still going through our process there and we're speaking 366 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,960 Speaker 2: to the companies asking them very specific questions about their 367 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 2: play ons. After we have that in position. After we 368 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 2: have that information, will analyze it, assess it, and then 369 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 2: will be in a position. But right now we're not 370 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 2: taking a position yet. 371 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 3: Let's talk about AI because it's definitely a very hot 372 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 3: topic of conversation these days. How is the AI protections 373 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 3: that you achieved in twenty twenty three, how do you 374 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 3: think those have played out in an environment where the 375 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 3: AI tools and the capabilities are just galloping forward almost 376 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 3: every month? And then any insight you can give us 377 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 3: into what you think are important to achieve this time around. 378 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 2: I'm going to start by going back to Tommy Shlami 379 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 2: quoting Wiyen Kretzky when Tommy was chairing negotiations, he said, 380 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 2: is we want to skate to it? And you quoted 381 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 2: Gretsky gave Gretzky credit. We want to skate to where 382 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 2: the puck is going, not where it is. In twenty 383 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 2: twenty three A there was a lot of discussion about AI, 384 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 2: but it really wasn't being utilized in film and television production. 385 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 2: It wasn't ready to be utilized. So we were looking 386 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 2: at what are we doing to future proof ourselves as 387 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 2: this comes, and that focus was really about job guarantees, 388 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 2: our contracts and I don't know if you've looked through them, 389 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 2: but our contracts lay out the enumerated duties of directors, 390 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 2: uniproduction managers, assistant directors, associate directors, stage manager's in detail. 391 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 3: In twenty minute increments. 392 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,159 Speaker 4: The books may be a little thick, and so what 393 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 4: was important to us was making sure that we also 394 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 4: expanded that not just the enumerated responsibilities, but the other 395 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 4: job functions that historically would traditionally performed at members would 396 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 4: continue to be performed by people, and that AI was. 397 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 2: Not a person. 398 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 5: That was a tremendous gain for us, all right, And 399 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 5: so what was important to us was making sure that 400 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 5: those responsibilities and we also expanded that not just the 401 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 5: enumerated response abilities, but the other job functions that historically 402 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 5: which traditionally performed at members would continue to be performed 403 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 5: by people and that AI was not a person. That 404 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 5: was a tremendous gain for us. 405 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,960 Speaker 3: All right, it sounds simple as to your point, that 406 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 3: was an. 407 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 2: Achievement exactly, and we have to renew that the side 408 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 2: letter expires, we have to renew that side letter. The 409 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 2: other things that we gained in that we're having ongoing 410 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 2: conversations and dialogues with the companies so we could learn 411 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 2: more about what their plans are with AI and how 412 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 2: they intend to roll that out. And so we've been 413 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 2: doing that for the past two and a half years. 414 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 2: So now we have a much better sense of where 415 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 2: the companies are as well as talking to some of 416 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 2: the AI platforms and getting demonstrations on what canning cannot 417 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 2: be done. So now we're looking at how AI is 418 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 2: now being implemented and we're looking at it us how 419 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 2: do we build U pun the job protections to protect 420 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 2: the role of the directors and the directorial team members creatively. 421 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 2: In addition, to protecting their jobs when these tools are 422 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,479 Speaker 2: being used, and so we're focusing a lot on that 423 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,640 Speaker 2: right now. We're also looking at what we built into 424 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 2: the agreement, the notion that we would we'd have to 425 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 2: have further discussions on consent and compensation. Disney just entered 426 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 2: into a deal with Soura licensed characters to Soora. From 427 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 2: our point of view, the fact that the AI companies 428 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 2: a licensing material is to us good. It shows they 429 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 2: can license material, and then the question is how we 430 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 2: get compensated when the studios licensing it to the AI companies. 431 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 2: So we're going to need to address those issues and 432 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 2: then to further things on a creative rights issue. Is 433 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 2: what we're seeing happening with using AI on library on 434 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 2: old films and TV shows where they're using AI to 435 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 2: change or enhanced change, mutilate, different choose different words, and 436 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 2: they have all different tools depending upon what they apple. 437 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 2: Wele depending on what they're doing and making sure that 438 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 2: the directors involved in those decisions. We have a full 439 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 2: plate in the area and some of it will be 440 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 2: done through negotiations and some of it will be addressed 441 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 2: continuing these conversations and others we may have to look 442 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 2: at in legislation or in litigation. 443 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 3: Let me ask you for specific on consent and using 444 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 3: the Disney Sora deal as an example, that was all 445 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 3: about animated characters that are not associated with the visionage 446 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 3: of an actor or something. But if there's a piece 447 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 3: of material that is available for use in the Sora 448 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 3: licensing agreement that Disney set with open AI, and it's 449 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 3: five seconds that is clearly from a movie that was 450 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 3: directed by a DGA member, are you saying that for 451 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 3: the use of that, for the use of people putting 452 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 3: that on TikTok and wanting to make something else out 453 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 3: of that, that Disney should pay some sort of compensation 454 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 3: to the director that directed that sequence that is now 455 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 3: being adapted through Generative AI. 456 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 2: I would break it down more broadly than that. I 457 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 2: think we have to have conversations both about training and output, 458 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 2: and you don't. I don't want to pre judge those conversations, 459 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 2: but I think we have to look at both angles. 460 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 3: Did Disney give you any kind of heads up? Did 461 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 3: they have a conversation with you before they announced the 462 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 3: big licensing agreement? 463 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 2: We were given advanced notice. 464 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 3: Have there been any incidents or occasions in the last 465 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 3: three years since you had the AI protections now baked 466 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 3: into the contract, where the guild has gone had to 467 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 3: go to a studio and say, hey, you are violating 468 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 3: these terms. 469 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 2: It hasn't come up so much under the basic agreement. 470 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 2: We had an issue with the commercial agreement on a 471 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 2: project that was produced entirely AI project and coverage of that, 472 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 2: and we were able to prevail in that dispute. The 473 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 2: studios we have some things floating out there, but I 474 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 2: think those are things that we need to talk to 475 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 2: them directly about and wouldn't be appropriate to get into 476 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 2: it here first. 477 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 3: Of course, generative AI is so new and so evolving 478 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 3: right now. But DGA members have had experience with AI 479 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 3: in post production in visual effects. Is there anything that 480 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 3: your members have learned or experienced with that has been 481 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 3: helpful in guiding what kind of parameters should be put 482 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 3: on generative AI tools. 483 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 2: I'm so glad you asked the question because at the 484 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 2: last opportunity for something I should have said earlier when 485 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 2: AI first came up with. This industry has evolved many 486 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 2: many times, from you know, from sarting out with silent 487 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 2: films to talkies to the creation of you know the VCR. 488 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 2: Each one of those technologies seemed extremely frightening when they 489 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 2: came in, and each one of those things turned out 490 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 2: to be put If they're put in the hands of 491 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 2: creative people, they will to take those technological changes, adapt 492 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 2: and move the industry forward. The real question that comes 493 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 2: up with AI is really who's going to be controlling 494 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 2: its use And if it's being used as a tool 495 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 2: of the creative people to enhance filmmaking, that is a 496 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 2: positive thing. If it is being used by being counters 497 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 2: to cut jobs and cut costs, that's a negative thing. 498 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 2: And so a lot of this is going to play 499 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 2: out over time and how AI is utilized in filmmaking. 500 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 2: But if it's viewed as a technology to help that's 501 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 2: something that should be looked at positively. If it's used 502 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 2: as a way to control and cut jobs, then it's 503 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 2: a negative and that's really going to be what plays 504 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 2: out over the next few years. 505 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,919 Speaker 3: Let's talk about Christopher Nolan. He's a new element to 506 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 3: the conversation this year as president of the DGA, the 507 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 3: most highly regarded, the biggest direct or brand name, or 508 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 3: certainly one of them we have out there. Does that 509 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 3: does that have an impact in the negotiating room. 510 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 2: It's I think it absolutely affects everything that we do. 511 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 2: It follows again, I'll say that long line. I when 512 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 2: you talk about past presidents Billy Wilder, George Sidney, Frank Capra, 513 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 2: this union has been led by working directors and the 514 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 2: directors who were at the top of the. 515 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 3: Field, including Leslie Linka Glotter a terrific television directory presence. 516 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 2: If you look at the last three presidents, they were 517 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 2: incredible television directors and Leslie when you know she was 518 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 2: working the entire time, she did two mini series while 519 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 2: she was president of the DJA, same Paris Barkley, Tommy Shlami. 520 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 2: It's part of the DNA of the guild, and it's 521 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 2: having the top directors who were the most involved, most 522 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 2: sought after directors speaking on behalf of their fellow directors 523 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 2: and directorial team members. You know, dropping the team members 524 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 2: too often. But so much of our guild is the below, 525 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 2: is the the ads, the upms, the associate directors, in 526 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 2: the stage managers. They're critically important. Having Chris at the helm, 527 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 2: both literally and figuratively, is fantastic. He's completely engaged, has 528 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 2: a tremendous mastery of what's going on in the industry 529 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 2: and with the guild. So it's a pleasure to work 530 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 2: with him, and he certainly helps us in very important ways. 531 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 3: Let me ask you about the health plan, because it's 532 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 3: well understood that all three guilds that they are in 533 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 3: difficult shape, like that the health plans are losing money 534 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 3: for the DGA. How are you how do you hope 535 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 3: to address that. 536 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 2: Well, we're going to trust it through negotiations primarily. But 537 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 2: let me stop by talking about what's going on because 538 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 2: this isn't something that's unique to the DGA, it's not 539 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 2: unique to the entertainment unions. Our country is in the 540 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 2: midst midst of a national healthcare crisis. We had just 541 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 2: witnessed the longest shutdown in the government's history, principally overfunding 542 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 2: healthcare benefits. Our plan is in relative shape, in very 543 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 2: good shape. We still have many months of reserves. We 544 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,520 Speaker 2: are the best funded plan in the industry. We provide 545 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 2: among the best benefits of not the best benefits in 546 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 2: the industry. Those things are really important to us. It's 547 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 2: important town members, but we're not immune to what's going 548 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 2: on in the nation and the healthcare crisis is impacting us. 549 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 2: We're seeing raging health care inflation, we're seeing a growing 550 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 2: retiring population, and we're seeing changes from employment patterns that 551 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 2: are putting further stress on the plan. Right, the fewer 552 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 2: episodes also does not help. Yeah, and the number of 553 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 2: episodes that a director will get. And in our health plan, 554 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 2: it's a robinhood plan. The high earners are subsidized in 555 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 2: the lower earners. As those high earners are working fewer episodes, 556 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 2: some of them fall into being subsidized as opposed to 557 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: the subsidize. So those who create issues for us, the 558 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 2: trustees of the plan, because the health plan is a 559 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 2: separately run entity with the board of trustees. Half are 560 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 2: appointed by the DJA, half are appointed by the AMPTP, 561 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 2: we approve some modest changes in benefits. We did that 562 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 2: because we've always tried to take care of and do 563 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 2: what is responsible. But at this point it's the We 564 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 2: think it's the employer's responsibility to step up. One of 565 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 2: the things that I believe is getting lost in this 566 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 2: conversation is that when you're dealing with a multi employer plan, 567 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 2: that is very different from a single employer health plan. 568 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 2: In a single employer health plan. If health care costs 569 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 2: go up, the employer's costs go up. Now that maybe 570 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 2: they pass some of them on to the employees, but 571 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 2: their health care costs go up. In a multi employer 572 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 2: plan like ours, the employers are making of funding the 573 00:31:55,400 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 2: plan based upon a percent of income. One percent has 574 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 2: been relatively flat for the past decade. So while we're 575 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 2: seeing raging inflation, the employer's healthcare costs are largely flat. 576 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 3: Let me ask you about the Greg Hessinger of it all. 577 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 3: This would be the first time in some years, about 578 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 3: fifteen years, that there's a new person at the table. 579 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 3: Carol Lombardini, who was with the organization for a long time. 580 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 3: Greg Hessinger, who was a former executive director of SAG 581 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 3: is now when the AMPTP president's post. How do you 582 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 3: think that's going to impact the discussions. 583 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 2: I think the person's less important than the entities. I mean, 584 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 2: we're negotiating against the AMPTP. We have individuals from every 585 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 2: studio with their reporting in their structure. Greg's working for them. 586 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 2: Greg has a lot of experience and he has a 587 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 2: different personality certainly than Carol. You know, he's worked both 588 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 2: on the union side and the employer's side, and he 589 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 2: had his own law firm work for other firms representing Matt. 590 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 2: He's a skilled negotiator, and at least from my experience 591 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 2: with the GREG, I think he's going to come with 592 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 2: a very business like attitude. He's going to try to 593 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 2: be a problem solva, but ultimately he's doing a job 594 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 2: that he was hired to do, which is to negotiate 595 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,959 Speaker 2: best agreement that he can get for the Studios Negotiating 596 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 2: Committee chaired by John Affnett and vice chaired by Karen Gaviolia. 597 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 2: With me, you can go in and where a job 598 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 2: is to negotiate the best agreement that we can for 599 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 2: the our members, and we're going to approach it professionally. 600 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 2: They'll appropriate professionally, and I think that it may the 601 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 2: tone and the personality will change because of the people 602 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 2: who are sitting at the table, but the elephant negotiations 603 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 2: are largely the same. 604 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 3: In twenty twenty three, one of the many things that 605 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 3: was unusual and different about twenty twenty three is it 606 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 3: really did break that the long run of pattern bargaining, 607 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 3: setting a template that would be adapted for each individual guild. 608 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 3: Do you think there will be less similarity in the 609 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 3: terms and the types of issues that the AMPTP is 610 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 3: really willing to give on, to have that give and take, 611 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 3: or do you think it might skew back toward more 612 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,919 Speaker 3: like sort of pattern bargaining of old. 613 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 2: There are common issues that the unions share, and in 614 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 2: those common issues, one negotiation impacts the next negotiation. And 615 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 2: even in twenty twenty three, if you look at what 616 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 2: our contract was and you compare essential elements in those areas, 617 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 2: it's very similar across the line to what happened with 618 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 2: other unions. But there are lots of issues that are 619 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 2: not common. Sayeg AFTRA has a large number of issues 620 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 2: that would never even come close to anything that we 621 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 2: would ever addressed. Same with the writer's guilt. And so 622 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 2: it's a combination of focusing and negotiating on as you 623 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 2: negotiating what I would call industry issues and issues that 624 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 2: are unique to your own union. The industry issues clearly 625 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 2: have an impact on each other. Sometimes that's good, sometimes 626 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 2: that's bad, and that's where the conversation between us and 627 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 2: seg after and the write is guilt is so important 628 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 2: to see if we have a common approach and common 629 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 2: priorities on those issues, but we all have very unique 630 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 2: issues ourselves, So it all depends on the negotiation. Every 631 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 2: negotiation cycle has its own personality. Every negotiation has its 632 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 2: own personality, and sometimes there are issues that are dominated 633 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,280 Speaker 2: by industry issues. Sometimes they're dominated by union specific issues, 634 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 2: and that just plays out differently from negotiation to negotiation. 635 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 3: Is there anything super specific to directors and maybe even 636 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 3: you know people the unit production managers are associated direct 637 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,280 Speaker 3: We've talked about the big picture issues. Is there anything 638 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 3: small but meaningful to an important constituency that you're looking 639 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 3: at this time? 640 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 2: If you look at our lass negotiation, I think if 641 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 2: you looked at the director's role in post productions, a 642 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 2: perfect example of that having the vision right, having the 643 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 2: TV directors getting that second edit where they could collaborate 644 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 2: with the executive producers on the show and really be 645 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 2: involved more creatively in the final product was tremendous and 646 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 2: it was a uniquely director driven issue. We also had 647 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 2: an issue in the last negotiation that affected our upms 648 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,720 Speaker 2: and associate directors where they were working on reduced rates 649 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 2: in the first and second season of the series. That 650 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,000 Speaker 2: provision went in a contract many years ago to try 651 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 2: to discourage work from going to Canada that if you 652 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 2: got brakes on your first and second year, you would 653 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 2: start these series and you would make it up into third, fourth, 654 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,800 Speaker 2: fifth seasons and so on. That worked in a network model, 655 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 2: but that was being applied to s fad shows which 656 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,439 Speaker 2: were only having one or two years, and it made 657 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 2: no sense. So we eliminated that for our eighties and upms. 658 00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 2: Again very very important to them sniffing it monetary gain, 659 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 2: but very unique to associate directors. Associate I mean unit 660 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 2: production managers and assistant directors. So yeah, and we have 661 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 2: a series, I mean, it's easy to talk about the past. 662 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 2: Of course, we have many of those for this negotiation. 663 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 3: Also, in addition to the labor talk, starting on Monday, 664 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 3: the DGA is about to give out some of its 665 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,719 Speaker 3: coveted medallions that you're hosting the DGA Awards. That must 666 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 3: be an all hands on deck thing for the guild, 667 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 3: will it is. 668 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 2: It's more work than you could possibly imagine, and for 669 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 2: some odd reason, historically we do that mostly in house, 670 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 2: so it is our communications department and our operations department 671 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 2: that's really leading this. It's a fantastic night. We need 672 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,799 Speaker 2: a night to escape and celebrate the wonderful work that's 673 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 2: being done by the creative community to entertain people all 674 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,240 Speaker 2: over the world. Appreciate the conversation and hope you enjoyed 675 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 2: the eyal Worshow. 676 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. 677 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,600 Speaker 3: Be sure to leave us a review at the podcast 678 00:37:58,680 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 3: platform of your choice. 679 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 1: We love to hear from listeners. 680 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 3: Please go to Variety dot com and sign up for 681 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 3: the free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't forget to 682 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 3: tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business.