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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time.

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Speaker 3: Listen.

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Speaker 2: We made it to Tuesday, Tuesday the twenty ninth, and

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Speaker 2: we have a stacked night of headlines. First up, it's

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Speaker 2: interesting update in the Epstein case. It turns out Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: the President, says that he and his relationship with Epstein

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Speaker 2: is over and has been for years because Epstein was

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Speaker 2: stealing women from his Marlaga spa. Whatever that means. So

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Speaker 2: we'll be unpacking that later in the show. That relationship

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Speaker 2: apparently has been severed and was many years ago. Also,

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Speaker 2: we're going to be talking later in the week about

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Speaker 2: some of this Coburger new developments as well. I think

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Speaker 2: Body and Courtney specifically tomorrow, so make sure you're staying

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Speaker 2: with us. And then also we have a very special

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Speaker 2: licensed therapist, our very own Jessica Kaplan, is going to

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Speaker 2: be talking to us today about how we can kind

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Speaker 2: of keep ourselves a little bit safe in the world

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Speaker 2: and also how we're absorbing all of this true crime

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Speaker 2: content in a way that is helping and not making

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Speaker 2: us all crazy. And listen, there's been a tragedy, of

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Speaker 2: course in New York City. I know you all have

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Speaker 2: been following it, so we want to unpack that as

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Speaker 2: well and do so as cleanly and ethically and keep

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Speaker 2: the spirits up as possible. So body, I know you

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Speaker 2: are first up, And before we go any further, I'm

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Speaker 2: Stephanie Leidecker and a head of Katie Studios, where we

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Speaker 2: make true crime podcasts and documentaries and I get to

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Speaker 2: be here every night with Courtney Armstrong and Body move in.

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Speaker 2: And the best part about that is we get to

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Speaker 2: do that with you. So keep jumping in joining the

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Speaker 2: conversation eight eight eight three one. Please. You could also

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Speaker 2: just leave us a message if for some reason you

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Speaker 2: get the voicemail, and then we'll play it on the show.

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Speaker 2: Or you can also leave a talkback. Download the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 2: It's free top right hand corner. You press a button,

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Speaker 2: leave a little voice memo and boom, you're on the show.

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Speaker 3: Or you could always hit us up on our socials.

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Speaker 2: I know this sounds like a lot of options, but

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Speaker 2: you guys have really been taking good advantage and we

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Speaker 2: really are getting them and it means the world. At

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Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight's show for TikTok or Instagram, or at

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Speaker 2: True Crime.

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Speaker 3: Tonight on Facebook. So listen.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of moving pieces this evening, and we

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Speaker 2: really want you to join the conversation.

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Speaker 3: So welcome. I'm also a little sneezy.

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Speaker 2: I'm suddenly a little allergic to the tsunami that might

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Speaker 2: be approaching. I don't know, so if I seem a

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Speaker 2: little snight sinusy and stuffed up, I promise it'll be temporary. Body,

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Speaker 2: Where should we start? I know this is a terrible

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Speaker 2: tale happening out a New York. I think we're gonna

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Speaker 2: start with a.

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Speaker 3: Couple of talkbacks if that's okay, So can we get it? Bringham?

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Speaker 4: Hi, It's Centthia from Canada. In regards to the Epstein list,

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Speaker 4: I think a list actually does exist, because what's blackmail

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Speaker 4: without a list and other information and documents like pictures

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Speaker 4: and videos that he probably has somewhere. But I do

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Speaker 4: think there's a list out there and the US government

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Speaker 4: is not releasing the information.

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Speaker 3: But that's okay. We'll eventually find out that's right, Ah, Cynthia,

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Speaker 3: we love hearing from me, I know we do all

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Speaker 3: from us and Stephanie, that's kind of gone to your

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Speaker 3: main theory and all this right, like there's this was

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Speaker 3: all done for blackmail purposes?

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Speaker 2: Is that only because we were told that, right? So

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Speaker 2: it's not like an idea that I concocted. But many

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Speaker 2: many years ago when Epstein in This Island all came

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Speaker 2: to light, we had started that following this very closely,

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Speaker 2: early early on, and frankly got a little spooked. And

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Speaker 2: part of that was because allegedly there was all this

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Speaker 2: videotape and we've seen photographs of people, investigators, et cetera,

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Speaker 2: leaving this island that Jeffrey Eppstein not only owned but

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Speaker 2: allegedly ran a sex trafficking operation out of maybe luring

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Speaker 2: very powerful people to the island that had cameras everywhere,

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Speaker 2: and if there were, say an underage girl or even

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Speaker 2: an adult aged woman who was there and incompromising positions,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't a good look for some very significant names.

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Speaker 2: So all along we've been hearing that this list will

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Speaker 2: get revealed, this list will get revealed, and you know,

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Speaker 2: as you guys have been following in the last couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks that kind of changed. And now we're hearing

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Speaker 2: that President Trump is saying, look, he had a bad

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Speaker 2: fallout with Epstein and that was many, many years ago,

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Speaker 2: and that he's not overly paying attention to this, but

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Speaker 2: part of the reason that they air quotes broke up

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Speaker 2: their friendship, which was apparently very very close, so much

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Speaker 2: so that Trump and Epstein attended Trump in Milania's wedding.

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Speaker 2: But again, that's probably a very large wedding. This is

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Speaker 2: not political sneaking. For myself, this is really not political

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure there's a pox on every side

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Speaker 2: of this story, which is mutual distruction, mutual destruction. I

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Speaker 2: think we're all sort of galvanizing in spirit because of that,

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Speaker 2: Like I don't know who to trust or what's.

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Speaker 3: Right and what's wrong.

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Speaker 2: But as of you know, this evening, as we're going

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Speaker 2: to air, Trump is saying publicly on Air Force one

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Speaker 2: that you know, basically that Epstein stole girls from him.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what stealing means.

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Speaker 2: Is that meaning that he was stealing them as employees

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Speaker 2: from his mar Alagos spa or quite literally stealing them

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Speaker 2: and trafficking them. I don't know what that means entirely.

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Speaker 2: If you have an opinion, please jump in and join us.

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Speaker 2: We'd love to hear from you. And that basically that's

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Speaker 2: the reason that their relationship severed. Keep in mind, probably

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Speaker 2: completely unconnected, but the main loudest victim Virginia Duffrey, who

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Speaker 2: really was at the forefront of cracking open this Epstein case.

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Speaker 2: She was also profiled in the many documentaries, including Filthy Rich,

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Speaker 2: the one on Netflix that we had the director on.

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Speaker 2: She took her own life back in April of twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty five, so we're talking just a few months ago,

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Speaker 2: so very res oarriage and story was that she met Epstein,

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Speaker 2: who essentially lured her from a Trump spa at sixteen

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Speaker 2: years old or something very very young.

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Speaker 3: So that lines up with what Trump really does track.

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Speaker 5: Yes, and in this was also this was in the

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Speaker 5: twenty sixteen deposition that Virginia gave and she said that, yeah, indeed,

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Speaker 5: she was working at mar A Lago was a summer

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Speaker 5: of two thousand.

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Speaker 3: She was just sixteen years old.

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Speaker 5: And when you asked before Stephanie about was Epstein luring

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Speaker 5: in what capacity? All President Trump said to reporters on airport.

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Speaker 5: One was yes, he was. He was asked, are they

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Speaker 5: hired away these young women? And Trump responded the answer

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Speaker 5: is yes they were, and yeah.

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Speaker 3: And were they underage?

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Speaker 2: And again not to discriminate against adult aged women who

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Speaker 2: are also sexually assaulted and trafficked and discriminated against. I

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Speaker 2: don't you know, there's no real distinction there, But you know,

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Speaker 2: he did say underage specifically. So I think this is

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Speaker 2: an evolving story that we'll be following closely, obviously, and

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Speaker 2: if anybody has an opinion, we're so curious to hear

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Speaker 2: it because I find it all really confusing.

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Speaker 3: I did too, and I don't know who to trust either,

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Speaker 3: and it's kind of scary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's a scary place to be true,

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Speaker 2: which is why I'm so grateful that we have licensed

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Speaker 2: therapist Jessica Kaplan upon us.

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Speaker 3: I know, I'm excited to keep her heaving. I need

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Speaker 3: some therapy after that. How long do we have I need?

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Speaker 2: If anybody needs therapy, feel free to call in unrelated

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Speaker 2: or related, you know, keep it clean, keep it safe.

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Speaker 3: But you're in treasured hands.

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Speaker 2: And I think the idea for this is, how do

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Speaker 2: we start ongoing conversations about the crime community and you know,

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Speaker 2: keeping our own mental health in check as we talk

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Speaker 2: about some of these really hard things. And having Jessica

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Speaker 2: Kaplan as an available source for us on a regular

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Speaker 2: basis is sort of the best case scenario.

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Speaker 3: I've just held her hostage. Whether she likes it or.

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Speaker 2: Not, Yes, absolutely, she'll not an agreement emotionally speaking.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, more on this absolutely, and listen anyone, as

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Speaker 5: Stephanie said, who does want to join, whether it's on

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Speaker 5: Epstein or crime and its impact on us in general.

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Speaker 5: It would be a great night to call. We're at

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Speaker 5: eight to eight three one Crime and now body, I

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Speaker 5: think you're going to give us an update on yesterday's

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Speaker 5: absolutely tragic shootings.

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Speaker 3: Right there were two and it's really I mean it's

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Speaker 3: really sad. So a gunman opened fire at a midtown

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Speaker 3: Manhattan skyscraper housing the NFL headquarters, killing four individuals, including

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Speaker 3: an NYPD officer, before fatally shooting himself. I think we

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Speaker 3: all saw the photo of that man walking down Midtown

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Speaker 3: Manhattan with this big rifle kind of at his side,

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Speaker 3: just being like, how does this happen? Like? How does

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Speaker 3: he just walk down the street in New York City?

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Speaker 3: I don't know. It's very very upsetting.

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Speaker 5: So, and it's a big to get to the building.

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Speaker 5: It's like a very long way to walk. It's a

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Speaker 5: very large pavement in front of it. So it's like you.

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Speaker 3: Can park in front of the building and just walk in. Right,

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Speaker 3: this is New York City. This is not an easily

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Speaker 3: traversible area. So, and he traveled in crowded. His name,

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Speaker 3: the shooter's name is twenty seven years old. His name

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Speaker 3: is Shane Timura, and he's from Las Vegas. He traveled

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Speaker 3: from Las Vegas to Manhattan and he entered the three

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Speaker 3: forty five Park Avenue. I mean this is right in

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Speaker 3: the heart of it all, armed with an ar style

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Speaker 3: rifle and opened fire on victims in the lobby level

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Speaker 3: and then took the elevator to the thirty third floor

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Speaker 3: or before turning the weapon on himself. Apparently he took

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Speaker 3: the wrong elevator and that's where how he ended up

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Speaker 3: in the wrong part of the building. He was supposed

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Speaker 3: to be targeting the NFL headquarters. He reportedly is there

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Speaker 3: was a note that he suffered from CTE in blaming

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Speaker 3: the league for his mental decline. So that's some sort

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Speaker 3: of traumatic brain injury, right, the CTE. So the gunman again,

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Speaker 3: he's from Vegas. He left a three page handwritten note

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Speaker 3: claiming he suffered from the CTE blames the NFL for

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Speaker 3: like suppressing his issues. The NFL is located at three

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Speaker 3: forty five Park Avenue, and it's believed to be the

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Speaker 3: intended target. However, he just he went to the wrong floor.

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Speaker 5: Wow, I mean, just completely arbitrary. This lost life. And

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Speaker 5: Mayor Eric Adams and the governor have called for stronger

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Speaker 5: nationwide gun control of Yeah, and the NFL, by the way,

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Speaker 5: has increased security, has advised its employees to work from home,

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Speaker 5: and offered grief counseling to those in need.

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Speaker 3: And there would be many in need. Run so good.

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Speaker 3: Have you seen the Aaron Hernandez? Have you heard the story?

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Speaker 3: So good? Yeah, such a good one.

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Speaker 2: And also he suffered from you know, so many concussions there.

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Speaker 2: Maybe there's something tangential there. So Shane to Muraw. He

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Speaker 2: grew up in LA. He played high school football in

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Speaker 2: southern California. Former teammates and coaches were like really surprised

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Speaker 2: to learn he was a suspect, claiming he never showed

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Speaker 2: any sign of aggression or even violence. Also, he was

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Speaker 2: never formally diagnosed with any kind of CTE or traumatic

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Speaker 2: brain injury. He had a documented mental health history, though,

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Speaker 2: so it's possible that he had these these mental health

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Speaker 2: problems completely unrelated to his football right unrelated, And he

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Speaker 2: never played for the NFL, So I don't know why

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Speaker 2: he would be blaming NFL for suppressing these injuries.

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Speaker 3: But here we are. He entered the bill carrying this rifle.

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Speaker 3: He opened fire. Some of the victims. I think it's

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Speaker 3: important that we know their names. Yes, de dural Islam.

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Speaker 3: He was thirty six and he was an off duty

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Speaker 3: NYPD officer, father of two with another child on the way.

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Speaker 3: I mean, can't get any sadder than that.

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Speaker 6: No.

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Speaker 3: Al land Etinay, she's forty six, an unarmed security guard

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Speaker 3: in the building. Father. He father of two. Wesley Leapanter

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Speaker 3: forty three, a Blackstone senior marketing managing director, wife and

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Speaker 3: mother and Rudin employee. The name has not been released,

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Speaker 3: so it's somebody that wants to remain They want to

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Speaker 3: keep their identity private. This ar style MR rifle, which

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Speaker 3: he legally purchased in the state of Nevada. I live

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Speaker 3: in Nevada. I know how easy it is to get

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Speaker 3: weapons here. It's literally like a seven minute wait I

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Speaker 3: have is that right? Yeah? Wow, it's minutes. It's seven minutes.

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Speaker 3: You fill out the computer on your background. You know,

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Speaker 3: you're all your social security, your name, You're done. Well, listen.

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Speaker 5: We'll continuing following this as more information comes out, and

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Speaker 5: when we come back we will be joined by licensed

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Speaker 5: therapists Jessica Kaplan. We will be learning how to stay

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Speaker 5: safe and stay informed and more headlines later.

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Speaker 3: Keep it here at True Crime Tonight. We are talking

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Speaker 3: true crime all the time.

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Speaker 2: We have a special guest, a real beloved friend of

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Speaker 2: Kat and family of KT, but also one of the

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Speaker 2: smartest women I know, licensed therapists, Jessica Kaplan. And you know,

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Speaker 2: part of our discussion has always been how do we

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Speaker 2: consume this stuff on a regular basis like we all do,

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Speaker 2: and you know, we want to because I think it's

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Speaker 2: a super important and to be able to look at

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Speaker 2: these high stakes cases in hindsight and hopefully glean something

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Speaker 2: important from them, maybe to keep ourselves safer or things

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Speaker 2: to look out for in the world.

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Speaker 3: And look, it's easier.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes to see it in other lives, and it is

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Speaker 2: in our own So we want to make sure that

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Speaker 2: we're also like getting some real takeaway because these conversations

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Speaker 2: are so nuanced and changing and the world is kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, a little extra nuts, seemingly right now,

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Speaker 2: and on the heels of say, the Idaho student murders,

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Speaker 2: where it just was so horribly senseless, you know, as

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Speaker 2: murder is obviously, and now we're talking about you know,

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Speaker 2: more shooters even just today, and you know, how do

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Speaker 2: we sort of organize that in our heads? And I

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Speaker 2: know there's nobody better than Jessica to tell us about this.

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Speaker 3: So welcome to the show. Jess Thank you so so much.

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Speaker 7: I'm so happy to be here. Yeah, that's really really

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Speaker 7: nice to be here with you all. This is a

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Speaker 7: really a very important subject that deserves this kind of attention.

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Speaker 7: So I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And like this, the first you know, baseline would be,

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Speaker 2: you know, we're all consuming true crime like now, it's

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Speaker 2: like a genre, right, and like we take that sort

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Speaker 2: of seriously in that it's not like we're like, ooh,

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Speaker 2: love to talk about murder and death. You know, it's like, wow,

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Speaker 2: these are really extreme cases that when they're boiled down.

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Speaker 2: You know, we're all experiencing versions of you know, making

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Speaker 2: a different life for ourselves, or taking a risk, or

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Speaker 2: something's controlling it.

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Speaker 3: How do we trust our spidey sense?

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Speaker 2: And I think, you know, collectively, not just women, women

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Speaker 2: and men, but you know a lot of women.

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Speaker 3: You know, what are the rules these days?

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Speaker 2: And how do we process some of this content, you know,

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Speaker 2: safely for ourselves and you know, ethically as we're discussing them,

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Speaker 2: because we don't want to be certuitous, right, yeah, yes.

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Speaker 7: Well, I think a jumping off point would be to

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Speaker 7: spend a minute talking about what draws most people to

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Speaker 7: true crime, because I think that it's very natural for

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Speaker 7: us to have a tendency toward just being curious about

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Speaker 7: human behavior, and when something happens outside the norm and

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Speaker 7: it has something to do with the darker side of

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Speaker 7: human nature, people become fascinated by that. And I also

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Speaker 7: think there's an appeal around the problem solving aspect of

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Speaker 7: it too, you know, especially for unsolved murder cases, it's

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Speaker 7: appealing to a lot of people to follow a case,

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Speaker 7: and like you would do with any mystery that draws

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Speaker 7: people in, it's a puzzle to solve and I think

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Speaker 7: people find that engrossing and stimulating. Not to mention just

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Speaker 7: the idea of morbid fascination with these kinds of cases

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Speaker 7: and murders. I think that's a part of just natural

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Speaker 7: human beingsture that we have some fascination with some of

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Speaker 7: the morbidity of these cases. But I think especially for women,

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Speaker 7: I think we all know at this point that the

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Speaker 7: majority of true crime followers and fans are mostly women,

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Speaker 7: and I think there's the draw there, generally speaking, is

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Speaker 7: that women are the more vulnerable gender, and they are

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Speaker 7: the more oppressed gender, and I think that when they

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Speaker 7: are watching these true crime cases, they start to get

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Speaker 7: a sense of what they need to be doing to

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Speaker 7: protect themselves, learning about warning signs, the way the minds

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Speaker 7: of these criminals work, where it actually gives women a

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Speaker 7: sense of security and safety, to almost feel like they're

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Speaker 7: being educated in a way on what dangers are. And

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Speaker 7: I know I've talked to a few clients of mine

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Speaker 7: who really enjoy true crime, and some of them say

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Speaker 7: that they will put on a true crime documentary to

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Speaker 7: fall asleep at night, guilty and comforting to yes, exactly.

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Speaker 7: So it goes back to that feeling of if I

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Speaker 7: consume as much information as possible about what happened to

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Speaker 7: these other people and can get inside the mind of

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Speaker 7: the perpetrator, and I can understand warning signs and different

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Speaker 7: strategies to keeping myself safe, then I will be safe.

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Speaker 7: And so there's there's comfort and safety in that for

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Speaker 7: a lot.

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Speaker 3: So it's almost like a control thing too, a little

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Speaker 3: bit is that.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely, yes, it gives them. It gives them a

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Speaker 7: sense of being able to control the situation. And there

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Speaker 7: are a lot of positives to following true crime stories.

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Speaker 7: Like I said, it helps with education around how to

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Speaker 7: keep one safe. You know, you're you're not only are

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Speaker 7: you learning like valuable lessons about personal safety, but you're

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Speaker 7: figuring out what you need to do to avoid certain

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Speaker 7: dangerous situations. I even remember, you know, probably decades ago

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Speaker 7: now one OPRAH had on a private investigator who spoke

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Speaker 7: about the importance of always trying to leave the scene

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Speaker 7: of the crime and anytime you're being told to stay,

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Speaker 7: get in the trunk of the car, you know, come

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Speaker 7: away with me in to this room that you always

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Speaker 7: final life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Run run, run, scream, scream, scream, Yeah, that's what you go. Advice,

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Speaker 2: you know, part close to the exit or the entrance.

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Speaker 2: These are basic things. Carry your keys in your hand

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Speaker 2: as a varapin.

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Speaker 5: Even I swear I think we were small children watching

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Speaker 5: the same Oprah because I also remember the takeaways and

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Speaker 5: it was including if someone is shooting at you, literally

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Speaker 5: run in a zigzag. It is harder to hit a

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Speaker 5: moving target.

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Speaker 3: So there are there's like real basic concepts.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and to your point Stephanie before about like paying

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Speaker 7: attention to your spidey senses. This is another example is

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Speaker 7: when you start to feel like you're in danger, pay

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Speaker 7: attention and act.

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Speaker 3: So listen to listen to your body, listen to those

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Speaker 3: instincts that we have inside of us. Right, this is

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Speaker 3: your correctingman, and iHeartRadio. I'mbody move in here with Courtney

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Speaker 3: Armstrong and Stephanie Leidigger and we are so lucky to

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Speaker 3: be joined by miss doctor Kaplin. I should say miss

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Speaker 3: what a Oh my goodness, Kathlin.

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Speaker 7: I'm a licensed therapist is my title? No, my clients

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Speaker 7: call me doctores even though technically it's like a McNair

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Speaker 7: and I take it as a compliment.

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Speaker 3: Well take it as one. Yes, if you want to

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Speaker 3: weigh in and give us a call, because listen, this

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Speaker 3: is like a conversation. I always talk about why are

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Speaker 3: women so interested in true crime? Yeah, because when you

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Speaker 3: go to crime con it's all women, it's just women

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Speaker 3: after women. Give us a call eighty eight thirty one

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Speaker 3: crime or hit us on the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio

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Speaker 3: app and we have a talkback right now.

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Speaker 8: Hear the does learning about true crime and hearing a

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Speaker 8: lot of true crime stories make you guys feel more

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Speaker 8: anxious in your day to day life or more educated

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Speaker 8: and prepared?

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Speaker 3: Such a great question and so on point thinking.

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Speaker 2: For myself, I definitely feel less anxious, and I can

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Speaker 2: say working in true crime has brought me a lot

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Speaker 2: of peace and ease.

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Speaker 3: And I know that sounds wildly nuts.

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Speaker 2: That's why Jessica Kaplan is going to it's like a

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Speaker 2: flame by screwy brain.

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Speaker 3: But no, for me, I feel like I know the

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Speaker 3: worst of the worst that can happen. And because I

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Speaker 3: feel like I know the worst thing that can happen,

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Speaker 3: I'm prepared for it. Yeah, exactly, I don't know it,

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Speaker 3: and I kind of like more outloading trauma. I don't

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Speaker 3: know true.

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Speaker 5: No, And there are some keys like you were saying

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Speaker 5: Jessica about also figuring things out. There's a settling thing

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Speaker 5: of like, Okay, this is how this one piece of history,

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Speaker 5: call it was put together. Okay, I can understand that

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Speaker 5: and move on. So there is a part of that

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Speaker 5: as well.

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Speaker 3: I think, yeah, and.

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Speaker 7: I think what you're saying around so, I think different

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Speaker 7: people have different responses to following true crime or any

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Speaker 7: kind of tragedy in the media. I think for some

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Speaker 7: people it definitely reduces anxiety. And the way their anxiety

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Speaker 7: operates is it's a signal. It's like a little alarm

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Speaker 7: bell that goes off that they need to be paying

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Speaker 7: attention to something they need to prepare for, something that

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Speaker 7: they're not totally prepared for, and the anxiety is just

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Speaker 7: a little messenger rising up and letting you know that

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Speaker 7: you need to do so. So paying attention to the

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Speaker 7: clues and the information coming from these true crime cases

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Speaker 7: can help women mostly feel knowledgeable, prepared, so that they

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Speaker 7: feel like they can keep themselves safe in those situations,

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Speaker 7: and it reduces their anxiety. I think there are other

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Speaker 7: people who find their anxiety ramping up as a result

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Speaker 7: of consuming too much true crime are really just world

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Speaker 7: news in general. I mean we can really tie the

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Speaker 7: two together. And so you just one needs to just

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Speaker 7: pay attention to how they're feeling after they've consumed some

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Speaker 7: kind of true crime information or global tragedy, you know,

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Speaker 7: news events. You know, are you having trouble sleeping? Are

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Speaker 7: you eating less? Do you feel exhausted and drained after

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Speaker 7: you've consisted normal day media. I know for most of

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Speaker 7: us now right, it's true, it is true, but it

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Speaker 7: can lead to like hypervigilant paranoia. So it's important to

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Speaker 7: be staying on top of and having an awareness of

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Speaker 7: how you're feeling. And if you're starting to experience any

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Speaker 7: of these symptoms, that is a sign that you need

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Speaker 7: to be managing your consumption of these news stories in

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Speaker 7: a different way. It doesn't mean you have to completely

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Speaker 7: eliminate it, but you need to set boundaries with yourself

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Speaker 7: around your usage. You know, taking breaks, grounding yourself after

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Speaker 7: you've consumed something that is disturbing, you know, exercise, eating, rate,

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Speaker 7: sleeping while breathing, exercises, meditation. All of those things are important.

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Speaker 3: All those are really important facts that we we need

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Speaker 3: to consider ourselves as to crank content creative as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and tonight we have a very special guest, licensed

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Speaker 2: therapist Jessica Kaplan is here to kind of unpack with

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Speaker 2: us this bigger question about how do we digest all

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Speaker 2: this dark content safely for our own health and also

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Speaker 2: what its are we scratching by absorbing so much of

436
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 2: it and kind of what does it say frankly about

437
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 2: us and also the stories that we're covering.

438
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 3: So we want to hear from you.

439
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 2: Make sure you jump in join the convo eight eight

440
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 2: eight three one crime. You could also hit us up

441
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: on our socials at True Crime Tonight's show on Instagram

442
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 2: and TikTok or at True Crime Tonight on Facebook and

443
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 2: also the talkback. So if you just download the iHeartRadio app,

444
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 2: it's free top right hand corner, push a button and boom.

445
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 2: You were on the show sharing your opinion, and we

446
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 2: really want to hear them because this is heavy stuff,

447
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: you know, coming up off of the Brian Coburger trial,

448
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 2: for example, where or non trial, I should say, when

449
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: there's a man who really murdered for people without any

450
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 2: known connection, how do we make sense of that? Or

451
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 2: what we're seeing just in midtown Manhattan today where somebody

452
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 2: who has you know, a concussion or two who maybe

453
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 2: has an issue with the NFL, takes a rifle into

454
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 2: a midtown skyrise and just murders people. Listen and again, also,

455
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 2: and I've learned this from Jessica Kaplan, these are rare instances.

456
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 2: So just to make sure we like underscore that exclamation

457
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 2: point where we're looking at these very strange, scary, big

458
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,479
Speaker 2: cases to really glean some things that we can all

459
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 2: apply to our regular life. So I did hear a

460
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 2: quote that it is more in this again Scott Bond,

461
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,679
Speaker 2: who is a serial killer expert. He has said that

462
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 2: it is more likely to die from a vending machine

463
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 2: falling on you than you are at the hands of

464
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 2: a serial killer. So yes, we are talking about massacres

465
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 2: and loan shooters and active shooters and these very big things,

466
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,239
Speaker 2: but in reality, those are rare events. And you know,

467
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 2: I don't want to you know, we don't want to

468
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 2: perpetuate like constant chaos anyway, So jump and join the convo.

469
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: I promise to bring it back to jess after this talkback.

470
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 2: Let's go to that.

471
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 3: First.

472
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 6: Hey, ladies, I love your guys' show, and I just

473
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 6: want to say you guys do such a great job

474
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 6: at delivering the cases in such a respectful and factual manner.

475
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 5: Can you kind of.

476
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 6: Unpack love bombing and what we can look out for

477
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 6: in partners so that we don't get love bombed ourselves?

478
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 6: Thank you, guys?

479
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 3: What a gage rate? A question? And I think such

480
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 3: a great question for professionals. That's awesome. I love being

481
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 3: loved bonds, It's my favorit. Yeah. Do you know what

482
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 3: is kind of exciting because it's a lot of attention

483
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 3: that Listen, I'm the person that doesn't get any attention.

484
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 3: Like that is not true now, I know romantically, I know,

485
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 3: I mean, like, I just I don't so like when

486
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 3: I'm getting love bombed. It doesn't happen very often. But

487
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 3: when it has happened, I've been I've fallen victim to it.

488
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 3: Who hasn't it feels you know good?

489
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 4: Yeah?

490
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 3: Because it feels good. And then and then I'm like,

491
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 3: oh wait a minute, that's a red flag. So what

492
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 3: do you if in your professional advice? What is love bombing?

493
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 3: What does it look like? What's an example?

494
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 5: Sure?

495
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 7: So to start, I want to just jump off of

496
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 7: what you were just saying about how it feels good,

497
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 7: and it's important to note that generally speaking, our spidy

498
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 7: senses actually are activated when we are being love bombed,

499
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 7: because it usually does feel like an inappropriate amount of

500
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 7: attention and affection being the stowed on us at such

501
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 7: an early stage of a relationship that for most people

502
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 7: they feel that it's something strange. Our intuition is telling

503
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 7: them this is a lot for how little we still

504
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 7: know about each other. And it's important to keep in

505
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 7: mind that the love and attention and affection that a

506
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 7: person is bestowing on you at early stages in the

507
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 7: relationship is not genuine. It's a strategy. It's a manipulation

508
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 7: tactic because the goal of the love bomber is to

509
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 7: establish intense attachment as quickly as possible so that they

510
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 7: can then start their control tactics. At the end of

511
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 7: the day, it is all about control, and often times

512
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 7: the love bombers have narcissistic traits or they are abusers

513
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 7: that want to create a power dynamic where they start

514
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 7: to make the partner feel dependent on them, attached to them,

515
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 7: and they start to isolate them all the other abusive

516
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 7: coertive symptoms start to show up. So I try to

517
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 7: really encourage my email clients that when it is an

518
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 7: early stage of relationship and they start to experience these

519
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 7: examples of love bombing. So maybe it's lavish, expensive gifts

520
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 7: very early in the relationship, fancy dinners, wanting to take

521
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 7: you traveling to you know, beautiful places, expensive hotels starting,

522
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 7: I mean even.

523
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 3: Simply like texting all day, like yeah, constant times.

524
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 2: Like we're hearing cases of people who get don't be

525
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 2: done the texts. It's like the dentist, for example, It's like,

526
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 2: who has three hundred texts in a day. But again,

527
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 2: if you're feeling lonesome or maybe not totally alignment with

528
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 2: your best self and somebody's texting you four hundred times

529
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 2: in a day, that.

530
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 3: Telling you how great you are, they are with you,

531
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 3: they've never felt like this before. You know, those kinds

532
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 3: of things are warning signs of love bombing.

533
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 6: Ye.

534
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 7: Yes, And to your point, Stephanie, I think that the

535
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 7: women who are susceptible to this and are vulnerable to

536
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 7: this are women who have not had secure attachment in

537
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 7: their their childhood relationships, their caregiving relationships, so they're they're

538
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 7: usually insecurely attached people and they are looking to be

539
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 7: validated by someone and to finally be seen as worthy

540
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 7: by somebody, and so they're the most susceptible to love

541
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 7: the thing me.

542
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 3: It happened to all of us.

543
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 2: Who hasn't I'm sure every single person male or female

544
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 2: listening has had a hint of this.

545
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 3: Right.

546
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 2: By the way, if you have a story you want

547
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 2: to share, please call us eight eight eighty three to

548
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 2: one crime. But also don't feel ashamed if you've you know,

549
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 2: found yourself a little in over your head, because you know,

550
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 2: it is like a serotonin kick. I would assume if

551
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: someone's telling you how perfect you are, beautiful you are,

552
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: or how destined this is in record time, you know, listen,

553
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 2: there's probably exceptions to that rule, but as a rule,

554
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: you know, relationships take you know, a moment to get

555
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: to know one another. And it is a manipulation tactic

556
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 2: that you say that so clearly, jess it makes perfect sense.

557
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, Jessica on when you had said that,

558
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 5: it's It can often be narcissists who are doing the

559
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 5: love bombing is part of sort of the that love

560
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 5: bombing that you reciprocated, because once someone has showered you

561
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 5: with so much adoration, it can be a lot easier

562
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 5: to fall for that persons, you know, who thinks you

563
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 5: are so wonderful as like, ah, they see me for

564
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 5: how perfect I am and now they two in my eyes?

565
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 3: Is there any of that?

566
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 7: Yes? And I think that a narcissist is looking to

567
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 7: be the one calling the shots in the relationship. That's

568
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 7: their top priority is to be the only voice in

569
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 7: the relationship, and so.

570
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 3: Isolate you from other people too, right, yes, yes.

571
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 7: Right, And so in the love bombing stage, they are

572
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 7: preparing you to They're they're creating that that power differential.

573
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 7: They're preparing you to lose any established boundaries that you

574
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 7: might have for yourself in your autonomy in the relationship

575
00:33:54,720 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 7: and to you know, sort of like those rose colored glasses. Yeah,

576
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 7: for all of us in a new relationship, it's that

577
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 7: honeymoon phase and we all experience as normal as natural. Eventually, though,

578
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 7: the relationship starts to settle down, the rose colored glasses

579
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 7: come off, and hopefully there's something of substance there that

580
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 7: keeps the relationship going beyond the honeymoon phase. Then you know,

581
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 7: the narcissist who is love bombing is rushing through that

582
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 7: phase because he wants to be in a position of

583
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 7: power as quickly as possible, and if he can get

584
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 7: her to kind of see everything through those roast colored glasses.

585
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 7: He starts to isolate her, pulster away from family, She

586
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 7: starts to lose her her boundary making and the relationship.

587
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 7: She starts to believe him to be the person who

588
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 7: knows best, knows her best, knows what is best for her.

589
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 7: And suddenly now he is the one in control, which

590
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 7: is how narcissists operate, is by controlling others. That sort

591
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 7: of what's referred to as the narcissistic supply and whatever

592
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 7: capacities that he can gain control over his partner, that is,

593
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 7: that's what that's like his oxygen.

594
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what's activating him, you know, like you know,

595
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: he's activating in others this place of vulnerability and dependence maybe,

596
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 2: but it's activating a sense of power probably in the

597
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 2: love Bomber.

598
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 3: We actually have a quick talk back too. We can

599
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: go too.

600
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 9: Hey, y'all, it's Stephanie again.

601
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 8: I love y'all for real.

602
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 9: Skis sorry anyways, just timing in on the grooming topic.

603
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,919
Speaker 9: What do y'all think about using the term coercive conditioning

604
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 9: super vierious to hear what your thoughts are on this. Also,

605
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 9: just want to let y'all know the show is awesome.

606
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 9: I love everything about it and each.

607
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 3: One of y'all.

608
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 9: Also, I've listened to y'all seven days a week.

609
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 5: That could.

610
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 3: That is the sweetest. We love you, right, I remember her,

611
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 3: I absolutely remember her. Yeah, we love coersive conditioning. That's

612
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 3: a so what we've been trying to do for those

613
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 3: who don't know, we're trying to come up for a

614
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 3: separate term for grooming on adults, adults who are capable

615
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 3: able minded. I'm not sure how to say it, so

616
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 3: forgive me if I'm saying it wrong.

617
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 5: Is one thing we can kind of area baseline that's perfect.

618
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 3: So this coercive conditioning that's actually pretty good. That's a

619
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 3: really actually a good one.

620
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 2: And we're joined by our very special licensed therapist, Jessica Kaplan,

621
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:44,919
Speaker 2: who's keeping all of our heads on and she's going

622
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 2: to be coming back regularly, we're hoping for once a week,

623
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 2: whether she knows it or not. So if you have

624
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 2: some questions for Jessica Kaplan, please call us, leave us messages,

625
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 2: or you could also find her at Jessica Kaplan at

626
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 2: therapy dot com.

627
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 3: Very common catchy great Jessica Jessica kaplantherapy dot com. Did

628
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 3: I say, Jessica, you said at like an emailsress the

629
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 3: music that's my favorite KIDSA Kathlinthapy dot com at the club?

630
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 2: Yes, so okay, question Courtney, I know you had a

631
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 2: burning one for Jessica.

632
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 5: I do have a burning question. So prime is so pervasive.

633
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 5: You know, even in schools there are as as young

634
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 5: as kindergarten. There are you know, drills of what to

635
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 5: do if someone comes to intrude your school. How do

636
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 5: you talk to kids or teens who are either overhearing

637
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,440
Speaker 5: stuff or ask you questions?

638
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 3: What is the process?

639
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,919
Speaker 7: I love this question. It's so incredibly important to talk

640
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 7: about this and to have an understanding of the best

641
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 7: way to approach these subjects with children. Obviously, it's it's

642
00:37:54,840 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 7: age dependent. Let's start with the younger kids, not teenagers,

643
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,439
Speaker 7: so let's just say school age children. I think it's

644
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 7: important to let the children's questions lead the discussion. If

645
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 7: they're asking the question, it means they're ready for the answer.

646
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 7: That does not mean that you give all of the

647
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 7: disturbing details in your answer. You keep it short and

648
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 7: sweet and direct, and you know, you know your own kid,

649
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 7: so you also haven't a general understanding of, you know,

650
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 7: their emotional maturity. But I tend to answer the question directly,

651
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 7: just one or two or three sentences, and wait. If

652
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 7: they ask a follow up question, it means they're ready

653
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 7: for more information, and you answer that specific question and wait.

654
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 7: If they don't have a follow up question, that means

655
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 7: they've gotten all the information that they're ready to hear,

656
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 7: and you stop the conversation there. And I think that's

657
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 7: just a general way to handle the school aged questions.

658
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 7: I think for teenagers it's a little different because they

659
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:21,919
Speaker 7: are more emotionally mature. They're seeing so much through social media,

660
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 7: they have access to all the gory details of all

661
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 7: of these cases, and so I think with teenagers it's

662
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 7: more about having a conversation asking them how they're feeling

663
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 7: about it. Do they have questions, helping them develop critical

664
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 7: thinking skills around the media that they're consuming. I mean,

665
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 7: by the way, this isn't just for teens, this is

666
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 7: for adults as well, Like thinking about where the information

667
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 7: is coming from, what the news outlet is. Is it

668
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 7: a falacious news out lit or something more balanced and

669
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 7: neutral and respected and to ask questions about are we

670
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 7: hearing about facts or are these just people's opinions? You know,

671
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 7: get helping them develop some of those critical thinking questions

672
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,760
Speaker 7: is really important. And then you also help them figure

673
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 7: out how to step boundaries for themselves.

674
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 3: So good jess.

675
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,359
Speaker 2: Listen, Jessica Kaplin, first off, crazy for you.

676
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 3: We love you.

677
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for your time and giving us a

678
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 2: straight She's going to be back next week. This is

679
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 2: true crime tonight. We're talking true crime all the time,

680
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 2: and a special thanks to jess Kaplan for joining us

681
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 2: for the first hour. If you've missed any of the

682
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 2: show so far, zero stress, you can catch it right

683
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 2: after as a podcast, and also please jump in eight

684
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 2: eight eight three one prime. We want to hear your

685
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 2: comments and some of your thoughts on the topics. We've

686
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 2: been discussing lots of heating up on the Epstein front,

687
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 2: so we will be tracking that, probably more on that tomorrow,

688
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 2: but it does seem like it's heating up, so that

689
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 2: has new developments. And also this dopey dentist, the dentist

690
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 2: in Colorado who has been accused of murdering his wife,

691
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 2: mother of six, with tear drops. The kind Eye drops,

692
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 2: I should say, which is you know, insane and las

693
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 2: cyanide cyanide you know, laced tear drops, a little slow Paine,

694
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 2: little desk, this guy and how do we keep ourselves

695
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 2: you know safe Jess, and then also some headlines.

696
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 3: So before we even go further, let's start with a talkback.

697
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 10: Hey, Stephanie, Body and Courtney. This is Chelsea from Anchorage, Alaska,

698
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 10: and I just wanted to say that I absolutely love

699
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 10: you ladies. I was so excited when I found this

700
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 10: podcast because I listened to and Idaho podcasts and I

701
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 10: absolutely love listening to you all. While I don't want

702
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 10: to turn this into anything political, because I think we

703
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 10: all kind of need a break from politics, I do

704
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 10: want to make a comment about something I mentioned last

705
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 10: night about mental health, and what I really wanted to

706
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 10: say is that if anyone is listening and they feel

707
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 10: like they're struggling and they're scared to reach out to somebody,

708
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 10: don't be It's hard depending on what your situation is,

709
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 10: but keep reaching out. Someone will reach back, and someone

710
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 10: will help you because at the end of the day,

711
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 10: it's never worth your life or someone else's life, and

712
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 10: things can and will get better as long as you're

713
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 10: willing to put in the work and continue fighting and

714
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 10: being the strong person that you can be. Anyways, thanks

715
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,040
Speaker 10: ladies as of all that you do. Can't wait to

716
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 10: continue listening.

717
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 3: It's like she knew what we needed to hear, Chelsea.

718
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 2: Unbelievable. Thank you so much for the talk back. And

719
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 2: by the way, we all want to make that no

720
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 2: one's alone. We have each other and if you can

721
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 2: hear our voices, you're you know, in hug distance emotionally speaking.

722
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 2: Come on, so you know we can kind of trudge

723
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 2: through just about anything and this is a safe zone.

724
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 2: So please, you know, share your thoughts, share your feelings,

725
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 2: you know, hit us up. We know we'll keep things

726
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 2: either confidential or what have you. But you're not alone,

727
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 2: is the bottom line.

728
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 5: That was so beautiful and well said, and I just yeah,

729
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 5: I was.

730
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 3: I'm really touched.

731
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,879
Speaker 5: And keep reaching out is such a great message because

732
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 5: we really all need to So thank you for your

733
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 5: voicemail very very much.

734
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 3: Yes, so we have some headlines, Courtney, was that right?

735
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 5: We have headlines, Yes, we do. So start with a

736
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 5: little cryptocurrency.

737
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 3: So yeah, bros. Yeah, So the.

738
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 5: Two cryptocurrency investors, they're accused of kidnapping and torturing an

739
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 5: Italian man. This happened in a luxury Soho townhouse. So

740
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 5: they were granted a million dollar bail in. They're each

741
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 5: under strict conditions that including bands on paying in crypto,

742
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 5: which is kind of interesting as a.

743
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 3: I've never heard of a clause like that. Actually, yeah,

744
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 3: that's interesting even though it so you can buy stuff

745
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 3: with crypto, you can certain vendors, you can produce your

746
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 3: wallet and you know, scan a QR code and pay

747
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 3: with like bitcoin or ethereum or whatever, doge coin, whatever

748
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 3: is out there, you can pay with it. And they're

749
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 3: apparently banned from paying with crypto.

750
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 6: Is that?

751
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yes, that I have never heard of that clause never.

752
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 5: No, I haven't haven't either. Is it a good thing?

753
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:38,399
Speaker 5: Probably in their.

754
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,239
Speaker 3: Case, they're probably because they need to freeze their assets, right,

755
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 3: I'm guessing. I think it's a good guess.

756
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 5: We'll probably listen as things as things continue to go,

757
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 5: we'll definitely follow them as they unfold. But this happened

758
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 5: in early May, so we talked about this. Actually not

759
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 5: for a while because there hasn't been court movement, but

760
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 5: back early May, there was an Italian cryptocurrency man who

761
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 5: allegedly was lured to this townhouse very very fancy a

762
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 5: ton of cash every month, and it was by these

763
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 5: two crypto bros.

764
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 3: And he was tortured.

765
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 5: It was approximately over seventeen days, and it was all

766
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 5: in an effort to get his bitcoin password for goodness sakes,

767
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 5: and Body thankfully schooled us on a lot of bitcoin

768
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 5: in and out. What the prosecutor's allege is that abuse

769
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 5: involved electroshocks, pistol whipping, chainsaw wounds, burning water, borning, and

770
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 5: threat against Yeah, like.

771
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 2: Re bordering this guy over his cryptocurrency. It's unimaginable all

772
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 2: of these things.

773
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 5: It's kind of like they sat there and just for

774
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 5: seventeen days, you know, thought of every scary movie they'd

775
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 5: seen since middle school and said, let's try this one

776
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 5: and that one.

777
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 3: And what be saw some of the videos? Remember the

778
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 3: videos released, Yes.

779
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 5: And I want you to explain them, Body, but for

780
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 5: people to keep in their head. The defenses arguing that

781
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 5: it was a consensual hazing. It all happened during a

782
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 5: party like environment, and this guy.

783
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 2: Was in It might have started that way, you know,

784
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 2: considered it might have started as a like lighthearted you know, thing,

785
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,240
Speaker 2: and it definitely turned not so light hearted.

786
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 3: Well, in the video, they're kind of lounging around and he's,

787
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:24,439
Speaker 3: you know, the victim is like kind of like laying

788
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 3: on the couch, but the other guy that's laying, you know,

789
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 3: on the other side of the couch has got a knife,

790
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 3: so it doesn't really necessarily seem all that cozy cozy.

791
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 3: And in some of the videos he's being he's nude

792
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 3: and he's on the floor on all fours being walked

793
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 3: like a dog. I don't know, listen, it didn't I.

794
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:50,399
Speaker 2: Could like the worst party ever if this party, yeah,

795
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 2: thanks anyway, cut me out.

796
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 5: Humiliation and like you said, with a knife, if someone

797
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 5: with a knife says smile, you're gonna go ahead and smile.

798
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 5: By the way, I did a little fact checked, and

799
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 5: the bail was set with the stipulation and the cryptocurrency

800
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 5: was prohibited due to concerns over tracing.

801
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 3: So yes, it was. So that's the thing that the

802
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 3: blockchain is very transparent. It's a transparent ledger, that's what

803
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 3: blockchain is. But you would be able to trace it,

804
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 3: but you're not going to know who the end receiver is.

805
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 3: It's just a it's just an address. It doesn't really

806
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 3: tell you who it is, so that makes sense. That

807
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 3: makes sense to me.

808
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 2: That is wild, and I guess it doesn't totally make

809
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 2: sense to me. I'm embarrassed to admit I don't have

810
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 2: any cryptocurrency, nor do I know much about bitcoins. It

811
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,960
Speaker 2: always sounds a little extreme, but basically it's not traceable,

812
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 2: so therefore people are investing into it so they don't

813
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,240
Speaker 2: have to pay taxes or be held to any federal

814
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 2: or state laws as you would with regular cash.

815
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 3: I assume, right, yeah, and you know, well, and not

816
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 3: only that, but you know, it's growth, it's investment right now,

817
00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 3: by you buy a coin at one penny, and then

818
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 3: you buy a lot of them, and then it goes

819
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 3: up to two pennies and you've just helped your money.

820
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 3: Just don't cash money at home.

821
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 2: That's why a lot of drug dealers allegedly use, allegedly

822
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 2: allegedly allegedly drug muling. You know, cryptocurrency is kind of

823
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 2: one of the big ticket pieces of that therefore hard

824
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 2: to crack.

825
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 5: Right, Cryptocurrency like like big honks of physics. My mind

826
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 5: is just not made to hold them. Even though you've

827
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 5: described it ten times body, it's we're very smart.

828
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 2: Don't underestimate our ability to count coins, and you are smart.

829
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 3: You're listening to True Crime tonight where we talk true

830
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 3: crime all the time. I'm body moving and I'm here

831
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 3: with Stephanie Leidecker and Courtney Armstrong and we're kind of

832
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 3: going over today's top headlines and true crime. If you

833
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 3: want to weigh in, give us a call at eighty

834
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,879
Speaker 3: to eight thirty one Crime or use the talk back

835
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 3: feature on the iHeartRadio app. And I'm going to get

836
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 3: into the Dope Dentist today, Body tell us. All right,

837
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 3: So the dope Dentist. The closing arguments began today, right,

838
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 3: so let me pull up my little notepad here. Just

839
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 3: for the clarity.

840
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,800
Speaker 2: It doesn't appear that the dopey dentist himself his defense

841
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 2: not so dissimilarly to puff Daddy in his recent trial.

842
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,919
Speaker 3: As well, he didn't call any.

843
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 2: Aniriens witnesses like it was like the defense had no

844
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 2: nothing to say in exchange nothing, which is a tactic.

845
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:28,960
Speaker 3: Right, it's a tactic. It could show a sign of confidence,

846
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,240
Speaker 3: right m hm. So today was closing arguments and jury

847
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 3: deliberations started. They deliberated for four hours already, which I'm surprised.

848
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,439
Speaker 3: I thought he would be like, I'm too, I'll be yes,

849
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 3: I truly am Yeah. So he the dope dentist James Craig.

850
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 3: He stands accused of fatally poisoning his wife, Angela forty

851
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 3: three years old. She passed away. She is also the

852
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 3: mother of his six children, and he used cyanide and

853
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 3: eye drops to do so. He put like cyanide drop

854
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 3: in her milkshakes in the morning, her protein shakes in

855
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 3: the morning, you know, like she's going to go for

856
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 3: a walk. He gives her like a workout shake. She

857
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 3: drinks it. Now she's poison assignment.

858
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:08,959
Speaker 6: Good.

859
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,799
Speaker 3: So, prosecution argued in their closing arguments that you know,

860
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,160
Speaker 3: James Craig allegedly wanted out of this marriage, but didn't

861
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 3: want a divorce due to financial reasons. They were already

862
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 3: he was already spending what thousands of dollars on his

863
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 3: sugar babies, right because he met a lot of his

864
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 3: affairs on these sugar daddy websites and his public image.

865
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 3: You know, he's a he's a dentist. Those you know,

866
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 3: he's got a good reputation. These are you know, bad,

867
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 3: bad optics to get to get a divorce, especially you

868
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 3: know in his his faith. He's a later day saying

869
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 3: it's it's optically you know better to stay married. So

870
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,440
Speaker 3: they're saying that was the motive. They're saying the evidence,

871
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,240
Speaker 3: they have all these searches like how to make murder

872
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 3: look like a heart attack, and there are so many

873
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 3: examples of these searches. I would be on the show

874
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 3: until the end of time reading them all.

875
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 2: It's under believable how many times he had I mean excessive,

876
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 2: I mean being once or twice when your wife is

877
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 2: now dead, it would be suspicious, let alone.

878
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 3: Right right. And then of course also he he offered

879
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:18,760
Speaker 3: like three different versions of what happened. First, he said

880
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,920
Speaker 3: that she committed suicide. Remember he said she's unstable and

881
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 3: she's been wanting to commit suicide. Then he said that

882
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 3: he helped her and she set him up. So now

883
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 3: he's blaming her for setting him up. And they argued

884
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 3: that this consistency shows that there were This inconsistency shows

885
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 3: that he's lying because the truth doesn't change. Right now,

886
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 3: the defense is saying it was a broken marriage, it

887
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 3: wasn't murder. The defense said James was not a bad

888
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 3: husband or was a bad husband but not a murderer.

889
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 3: The marriage was troubled but loving. There was no financial

890
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 3: incentive to kill her. The insurance was mutual, bills were paid,

891
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 3: and the home was owned outright, So their argument is

892
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 3: there was no financial burden on the family. So one

893
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 3: of the motives that the prosecution is using is invalid.

894
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 3: They're saying that Angela's mental health in her journals. Again,

895
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:11,879
Speaker 3: we covered some of her journals yesterday on the show

896
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 3: Yesterday You miss it, you can download the podcast and

897
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 3: listen to that, And nowhere in the journals does it

898
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 3: say that she's suicidal in any way. So I'm not

899
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:21,919
Speaker 3: sure what their argument is there.

900
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 2: Well, it's probably depressing when you have six children's husband

901
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 2: is gallivanting with a million different people at the same time,

902
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 2: and she's aware of it, and he's like hiding under

903
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 2: faith like he is a devoted Mormon. I'm pretty confident

904
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:38,720
Speaker 2: that is not something that they holed up with great esteem,

905
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 2: as you you know, betraying your wife trying to kill

906
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 2: her multiple times. Then didn't he use that as an

907
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 2: excuse that he wanted he was so worried how sad

908
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 2: she would be if he took his own life that

909
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,919
Speaker 2: he figured he'd kill her first. I mean, this guy

910
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 2: has a real narrative in his mind and an ability

911
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 2: to to make himself feel okay.

912
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 3: So the other thing that they're saying is that there

913
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 3: was a flawed investigation that the defense is claiming that

914
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 3: it was biased. The medical examiner allegedly made assumptions based

915
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 3: on limited info and nobody could prove to them how

916
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 3: or when Angela invested this substance. So they're really putting

917
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 3: all the blame on Angela, which I don't really know

918
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 3: if is a really good defense strategy. I would love

919
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 3: to maybe ask Jared Farantino, who right, what he thinks

920
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 3: of that strategy. But yeah, keep it, you know, keep lists.

921
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 3: We're going to keep talking about this. We're going to

922
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 3: find out what happens after the jury is decided, and

923
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:39,800
Speaker 3: stick around and listen.

924
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 2: It's our favorite thing. We're doing talkback Tuesday, So we're

925
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 2: going to be a little wild and we're going to

926
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 2: do a little talkback roulette, which is basically Sam and

927
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 2: Adam in the control room are going to just tee

928
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:55,240
Speaker 2: us up with some talk ups or talkbacks from you guys.

929
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 3: And we haven't heard these, by the way, go ahead, guys,

930
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 3: you go surprise. Sam and Adam are picking these. We

931
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:02,839
Speaker 3: have no idea what they are. I'm like, I'm kind

932
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 3: of nervous, but I'm also listen. Tah has not here,

933
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 3: our producers not here, So we are like Lord of

934
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 3: the Flies right now in Oscar.

935
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 2: Is hopefully listening in the car right now. So if

936
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 2: you want to join us too, feel free to call.

937
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 2: But yeah, we are running the asylum.

938
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 3: The animals run the zoo, and so we kind of

939
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 3: want to have fun with us. We want to go

940
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 3: all together. What do we have, guys, let's throw one

941
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 3: at us all right?

942
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 8: Hey, True crime and True crime friends, it's April again.

943
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,839
Speaker 8: Thanks for the shout out before on the dentist Mike.

944
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 8: Question on the coburger case is what do all those

945
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 8: findes go to? Inquiring minds want to know, and I'm

946
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 8: kind of offended that the family's only got five thousand.

947
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 8: Can you enlighten us a little bit more on where

948
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 8: those funds go and fines and penalties and things. Thanks,

949
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 8: love you guys.

950
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 2: That's such a great question. And I don't think we act,

951
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 2: you know, maybe tomorrow whenever. Jarrett Farantino is on. We

952
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 2: can ask him because Hi, April, that's a great question.

953
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 2: And it's so because it's really like a thousand per murder. Yeah,

954
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 2: it ended up being like two hundred and fifty grand.

955
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 3: But who paid that?

956
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 2: Like his parents who have been through enough and have

957
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 2: had to file bankruptcy in the past, Like that's that

958
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:16,279
Speaker 2: doesn't seem fair.

959
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 3: He's an adult. We're not on the hook for that.

960
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 3: He's an adult. They're not on the hook. I can't

961
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 3: imagine we're gonna have to ask We're gonna have to

962
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 3: ask your Yeah, I don't know, but the job.

963
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 5: I'm just looking up a little bit of our notes

964
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:31,799
Speaker 5: and yeah, the judge find it is coburger. So where

965
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 5: this money is supposed to come from, I don't know,

966
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 5: but yeah, fifty thousand per victim, as well as a

967
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 5: civil penalty of five thousand dollars for each victim.

968
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,640
Speaker 3: So and then ten thousand I think for the burglary charge.

969
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 3: I think something I like the pay per.

970
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,359
Speaker 2: View idea where he has to, you know, answer America's

971
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 2: questions strapped up to a lie detector test for cash,

972
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 2: and that money goes to the victims.

973
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 3: I'd be okay if it was strapped to an electric chair.

974
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:00,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and then he I say answer, and

975
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I think we're onto something here, April,

976
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 2: keep it coming.

977
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 3: Answer. We're going to put a pin in that. April.

978
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 3: I hate, I hate that we don't have the answer

979
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 3: because I love to have the answers to everything. But

980
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 3: I don't know the answer to this question. So we're

981
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 3: going to put a pin in that. I hope you

982
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 3: don't mind, and ask Jarrett next time he's on, and

983
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 3: I think he's coming on soon, so we will. We

984
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 3: will ask what do they have next? With one gentlemen.

985
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 11: Hi guys, my name is Renee. I live in southern

986
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 11: California and absolutely love your show. I was listening about

987
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 11: the delay Maxwell situation and I just don't understand why

988
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 11: all of the said and she's giving up this information.

989
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 11: Shouldn't she have given this up when she was going

990
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:46,319
Speaker 11: to trial? And curious minds would like to know, thank you.

991
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,760
Speaker 3: That's a great questions, give me way out.

992
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,719
Speaker 5: I think that's why now. I think I think she

993
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 5: and her attorneys they see a potential opening, and you know,

994
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 5: in this moment, she wants immunity in order to give

995
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,280
Speaker 5: more of this information up and to your first question

996
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 5: of shouldn't she have come clean? Yeah, as a good human,

997
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 5: I agree with that.

998
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, I get this is the confusing part

999
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 2: that is sort of the unanswerable riddle here. But if

1000
00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 2: the person in charge, which in this case happens to

1001
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 2: be President Trump, if he's has his former lawyer who's

1002
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 2: the second in command at the DOJ, doing the questioning

1003
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 2: to Geleen Maxwell to get these said names from her

1004
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 2: in exchange for immunity. I don't know, something piece of

1005
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 2: that doesn't seem completely on the up and up, just

1006
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 2: on its nose. I'm not making the suggestion that it

1007
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 2: isn't on the up and up, and yeah, why didn't

1008
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 2: she give those up earlier? And by the way, on

1009
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 2: the flip of that, this is not again not political,

1010
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 2: because I have to assume if the previous Democrats had,

1011
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 2: you know, information that Trump was involved in this in

1012
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 2: some way, chances are they would have aired that dirty

1013
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 2: laundry too as soon as they had it. Or is

1014
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 2: it just too steeped in everybody's messy pockets that I

1015
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 2: don't trust any of it.

1016
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 3: I don't trust any of it. I really don't know.

1017
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:15,360
Speaker 5: And I actually feel like no information will be forthcoming

1018
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 5: because what Guleaene Maxwell and her representation, they only offer

1019
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 5: to testify again before Congress with major, major conditions. You know,

1020
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 5: it's immunity, it's delaying timing before she agreed to appear,

1021
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 5: and she insists at her deposition, for example, not take

1022
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,320
Speaker 5: place in the prison where she is. She demands the

1023
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 5: questions in advance to avoid surprises. She max Gleen Maxwell

1024
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 5: wants Congress to schedule her testimony only after there's been

1025
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 5: a resolution of her Supreme Court appeal and any upcoming

1026
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 5: habeas petition. So the Oversight so those are all her

1027
00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 5: large stipulations, and the Oversight Committee they have rejected granting

1028
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 5: immunity or clemency as a condition for her cooperation.

1029
00:59:05,360 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 2: Throw away the key key. She is a convicted sex offender.

1030
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:15,200
Speaker 2: She has done really unspeakable things. There's a certain place

1031
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 2: in you know where for a woman who would allow

1032
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 2: young women or any woman of any age. I don't

1033
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 2: care if it's one hundred and fifty year old woman

1034
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 2: to lure her into a circumstance that is unsafe. I mean,

1035
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 2: it's really it's this is tough stuff and we should

1036
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 2: not overlook that. Because she's going to toss out some

1037
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 2: sexy names.

1038
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1039
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 3: So instead of a talkback for the next one, I

1040
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 3: kind of wanted to read a DM. We got it.

1041
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 3: That's a oh yeah, can I can I? And by

1042
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:47,560
Speaker 3: the way, Oscar is listening. So we are in trouble.

1043
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 2: Okay, we are always We love you, Oscar.

1044
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 3: Okay. So here is a here, here's a DM that

1045
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 3: we got on X. Question. Coburger was charged with burglary.

1046
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:04,919
Speaker 3: Did he take something? Why not breaking? And entering? Why

1047
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 3: not breaking because the door was unlocked? Question mark. So

1048
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,959
Speaker 3: that's a really good question. And in Idaho, I looked

1049
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 3: up the statute when all this happened, and we risk

1050
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 3: the charge question. Yeah, I'm curious, and I looked up

1051
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 3: the so next to the charging document there's like the

1052
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:23,520
Speaker 3: number like the breaking violation Idaho statute three forty one

1053
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 3: whatever it was. And I looked it up at the time,

1054
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 3: and in Idaho, entering a domicile that you are not

1055
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 3: supposed to be in is automatic burglary. So it's just

1056
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:35,080
Speaker 3: a standard charge. He didn't take anything, he's not being

1057
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 3: charged with taking anything, but entering a building that you're

1058
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 3: not supposed.

1059
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 2: To be in is automatic burglary. Interesting as opposed to

1060
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 2: that being it's pretty simple exactly.

1061
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 3: Yep.

1062
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:47,480
Speaker 5: And it doesn't have to be because I might have

1063
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,439
Speaker 5: been looking at other statutes because what I had done

1064
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 5: in some supercursory research a while ago, said that burglary

1065
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 5: is a charge. It involves entering with the intent to

1066
01:00:57,920 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 5: commit a crime. You don't, Yes, And that's the important place.

1067
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 5: With the intent to commit a felony out, Yes, that

1068
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 5: is the important piece.

1069
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 3: I actually left that on. Wait can I hear that

1070
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 3: once more?

1071
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 2: Because I think this is what Riley was teaching us

1072
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 2: about earlier today. So if I walk, if somebody goes

1073
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 2: into a building that they know they're not supposed to

1074
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:19,120
Speaker 2: be in with the intent to commit a felony or

1075
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 2: first of all, would never happen here in the studio

1076
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 2: because Yogi or Propy would never allow.

1077
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 3: That's right, getting the front door. He doesn't like the way.

1078
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 2: Interesting point now that Yogi has spoken, Listen, they do say.

1079
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:36,400
Speaker 2: One of the best distractors against a home invasion or

1080
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 2: an intruder attack is a small dog.

1081
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 3: Just putting it out there.

1082
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:42,400
Speaker 2: A small dog because they can be a little bit

1083
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 2: wild and hard to maintain, hard to catch, and hard

1084
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 2: I can testify to that.

1085
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 3: I can testify to that. Yeah, you an opinion. He

1086
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 3: does not like anybody Yogi's keeping it.

1087
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 2: Bring it Yogi. So all that to be said, interesting question. Yeah,

1088
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:00,080
Speaker 2: it's a very very.

1089
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 3: With the intent. But here's the thing you guys today,

1090
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 3: this is kind of related. Today the Idaho Statesman, which

1091
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 3: is like kind of the paper one of the main

1092
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 3: newspapers and news organizations in Idaho that's been covering this case,

1093
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 3: and they had a panel today of a bunch of

1094
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 3: their journalists. It was really interesting. It's on their YouTube,

1095
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 3: the Idaho Statesman, and one of the journalists mentioned that

1096
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 3: he spoke with Bill Thompson, who is the prosecutor in

1097
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 3: the coburger case. And if you remember, like last week,

1098
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 3: I was like, what's the one thing we want to know?

1099
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:34,600
Speaker 3: And one of the things that I had mentioned that

1100
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 3: I wanted to know was whose IDs were in the

1101
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 3: glove in the box and in his bedroom in Pennsylvania.

1102
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 3: And we know, we got we got the answer. It

1103
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 3: is two women, two women in Pennsylvania mm hm. And

1104
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 3: these IDs were in a glove inside a glove inside

1105
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:59,919
Speaker 3: a box in his bedroom in Pennsylvania and they took

1106
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,880
Speaker 3: them right. So The reason I'm bringing this up is

1107
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 3: we're talking about Burglary. So one of the women, you guys,

1108
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 3: he worked with when he was a security guard, a

1109
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:14,760
Speaker 3: part time spirity guard at Pleasant Valley School District in Pennsylvania.

1110
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 3: You know, he worked there from he went to school. Yeah,

1111
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 3: before he actually made the move to be for he

1112
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 3: made the PhD. So this one, they the prosecution reached

1113
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 3: out to these two women and were like, hey, your

1114
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:30,240
Speaker 3: IDs were in this glove in Brian Coberger's and they

1115
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:35,040
Speaker 3: were shocked. They had no idea how Brian Coburger got

1116
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:39,200
Speaker 3: a hold of their ideas or even they were horrified.

1117
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 3: So I don't know if he broke into their home

1118
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 3: and like spied on them when they were sleeping, I

1119
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:48,280
Speaker 3: have no idea, or maybe their locker at school. I'm

1120
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:52,160
Speaker 3: not sure, but he had their jaw dropping.

1121
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you've been asking about this question. One of

1122
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 2: a brush with you know, with menace and violence. That

1123
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 2: was like, thank goodness that they were, you know, not

1124
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 2: harmed in any way. Courtney, Remember not to be tangential.

1125
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 2: I promise I'll be brief. But do you remember the

1126
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:12,480
Speaker 2: person that we were interviewing. She was so good, she

1127
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 2: had basically been asleep with her boyfriend in her home

1128
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 2: and they had a big dog, and apparently in the

1129
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 2: night an intruder went by her window that she was

1130
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:27,600
Speaker 2: sleeping with her boyfriend at the time, right under, went

1131
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 2: right by the window and went upstairs and violently assaulted

1132
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 2: the woman above her. And when she woke up, it

1133
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 2: was like there was police everywhere. The dog had found

1134
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 2: the watch of the perpetrator in his mouth, Like basically

1135
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:44,400
Speaker 2: the perpetrator had been in her house.

1136
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you know, Yoga would never do that.

1137
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 3: Unbelievable Yogi would like bark and then like hop in

1138
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 3: his lap like I need I need.

1139
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 2: That dogredible Yogi close your ears.

1140
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,320
Speaker 3: I think you would do real Oh well, oh my gosh.

1141
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 5: But no, that wasn't an absolutely incredible, incredible story that

1142
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 5: yeah the dog stop.

1143
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, so these and then we also learned today

1144
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:13,920
Speaker 3: from the Idaho Statesman, page one to eighteen, that was

1145
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 3: underlined Bill Thompson couldn't even remember it. So because Bill

1146
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 3: Thompson couldn't remember what it was, I don't think it

1147
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:25,240
Speaker 3: really had any evidentiary value. So I don't know that

1148
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 3: we'll ever find out what book he underlined couldn't tell us,

1149
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 3: so wow.

1150
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 5: Well there you have it. Listen, keep it here. We

1151
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:39,040
Speaker 5: have many more talkbacks, so we are listening and replying

1152
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 5: to you, and if you want to join the conversation,

1153
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:43,760
Speaker 5: give us a call eight at eight three one crime,

1154
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 5: Keep it here, True Crime tonight. We are talking true

1155
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 5: crime all the time.

1156
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 2: And we are playing a little I guess talkback Roulette

1157
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:04,960
Speaker 2: is what we're affectionately calling it in honor of talkback Tuesdays.

1158
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:08,959
Speaker 2: So which one should we go to next? Adam, you're up,

1159
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:10,080
Speaker 2: you decide.

1160
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 5: I think. Adam said, we have a bunch regarding the college,

1161
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 5: the Idaho College murder case, so that's I know, that's

1162
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 5: the pool we're pulling from.

1163
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 3: Okayes meeting.

1164
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 13: What rattled me is that he's just so stow it.

1165
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:31,840
Speaker 13: He's just so un emotional. And my question would be

1166
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 13: does he feel anything? I wouldn't ask it in an

1167
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:39,640
Speaker 13: accusatory way to put him on a defensive. I'm just literally,

1168
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 13: honestly curious. Does he have emotions, does he feel anything?

1169
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 13: Has he ever feel anything? Has he ever asked for

1170
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 13: help with therapy growing up? And that would be my

1171
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 13: one question for BK and FBK and I love you all,

1172
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 13: you're doing wonderful work things by.

1173
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 3: That's right, f b K. So I can tell you

1174
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 3: one thing he does feel rage the wounds of the victim.

1175
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 3: Tell us that the medical examiner on of Spokane, Washington

1176
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 3: mentioned that whoever did this did it with great intention

1177
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 3: and a lot of force, and he.

1178
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:20,919
Speaker 2: Was obviously very emotionally dysregulated. There have been a lot

1179
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 2: of reports though, just based on his ultimate demeanor being

1180
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 2: so right, what's the word, like, he's kind of valid, right,

1181
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 2: he gives that this space nothing and I guess that's

1182
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 2: a sign of psychopathy. And you know, it does sort

1183
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 2: of seem like there must be some underlying mental health

1184
01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 2: issues that maybe were unchecked or otherwise.

1185
01:07:39,960 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 3: Listen, he has a really nice family. His sister's a therapist.

1186
01:07:42,760 --> 01:07:44,960
Speaker 2: You know, we have you know, heard about this before

1187
01:07:45,040 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 2: that his older sister was frankly fired from her job

1188
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 2: for no reason for anything she did, but just by

1189
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:55,919
Speaker 2: association to him by name. And you know, his mother

1190
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 2: was very beloved in the community and worked at the

1191
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 2: school and you know, put her heart on her sleeve

1192
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 2: when there was you know, I think she wrote like

1193
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 2: an open letter to she wrote a couple yeah, in

1194
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 2: response to an active shooter or you know, just kind.

1195
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:11,880
Speaker 3: Of all day she wrote about you've all dae and

1196
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:14,520
Speaker 3: then Bundy being executed.

1197
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a really that's a little bit

1198
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:19,960
Speaker 2: like the Midtown shooter even today, Like this is a

1199
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 2: brain to study, I suppose, And again we don't want

1200
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,839
Speaker 2: to make excuses for him, but he does.

1201
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 3: Have this wicked affect. Yeah, he really does an absent affect.

1202
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:33,680
Speaker 3: And you know, we shouldn't forget either that he was

1203
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:37,800
Speaker 3: diagnosed with autism, and though I think that could be

1204
01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:41,679
Speaker 3: also at play as far as his emotional dysregulation, because

1205
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:44,040
Speaker 3: you know, I'm just saying, like we have to also

1206
01:08:44,120 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 3: consider that on top of you know, the psychopathy that

1207
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:50,680
Speaker 3: he's got. You know, it could also be just be

1208
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,200
Speaker 3: at play, right, Like that makes me so mad too,

1209
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 3: because we all you know, no, of course, just because

1210
01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 3: if you have autism, that doesn't make you a mass

1211
01:08:58,400 --> 01:08:59,799
Speaker 3: kill us right, In.

1212
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 2: Fact, you know, quite the opposite. So you know, I

1213
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:04,799
Speaker 2: always hated that defense, in that strategy.

1214
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:07,080
Speaker 3: I don't think it was a defense. But here's the thing.

1215
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:09,680
Speaker 3: I think they mentioned the autism in the motions pre

1216
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 3: trial because they wanted the jury to understand if he

1217
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:18,960
Speaker 3: was looking weird like and I'm using air quotes weird

1218
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:22,760
Speaker 3: and not outside the norms, outside the social norm Yes,

1219
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 3: thank you. They wanted the jury not to judge him

1220
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:28,040
Speaker 3: for that. I think it was fair to do that. Yeah,

1221
01:09:28,080 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 3: that's true. I think I mean fair to do that.

1222
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:33,639
Speaker 2: And also remember when he was young, he also had

1223
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:36,200
Speaker 2: that post on social media. I believe it was his

1224
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:38,720
Speaker 2: even on Facebook, and we can pull it up where

1225
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 2: he basically said he felt nothing.

1226
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:45,280
Speaker 3: That was true for about his visual snow of course,

1227
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 3: and he talked about you know that he was lacking feelings.

1228
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:52,759
Speaker 3: But again, I'm going to go back. Rage is a feeling?

1229
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:57,640
Speaker 3: Is rage of feeling? I guess? Yeah, obviously rights to

1230
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 3: a feeling or is it actually a feeling? I don't know.

1231
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 3: But anger is an emotion, right like women cry, men

1232
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 3: get angry, right like, it's an emotion. I can get

1233
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:09,560
Speaker 3: angry too, and men can cry. If you want to

1234
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 3: see some rage, Adams looking at us with some rage.

1235
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:17,200
Speaker 3: Right now, Adam and Sam are looking at us with

1236
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,680
Speaker 3: some rage. You're listening to True Crime tonight where we

1237
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 3: talk true crime all the time. I'm body moving and

1238
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 3: I'm here with Stephanieleidecker and Courtney Armstrong and we're responding

1239
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 3: to your talkbacks and dms. If you want to weigh in,

1240
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:30,759
Speaker 3: give us a call at eighty eight thirty one Crime

1241
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,120
Speaker 3: or send us a talkback and we're going to go

1242
01:10:33,160 --> 01:10:34,360
Speaker 3: to another talkback right now.

1243
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 12: I love hey guys.

1244
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 6: I just want to get your thoughts and opinions on

1245
01:10:38,720 --> 01:10:41,360
Speaker 6: finding being able to hear from the surviving roommates.

1246
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:46,799
Speaker 3: Thank you. That was hard. I for myself, and I'm

1247
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 3: only speaking for myself as a true crime content creator.

1248
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:50,759
Speaker 3: Never went after the roommates.

1249
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:51,360
Speaker 8: Never.

1250
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,320
Speaker 2: We actually never want after the opposite. Like I thought

1251
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:56,760
Speaker 2: it was such a pylon would break these.

1252
01:10:56,800 --> 01:11:00,000
Speaker 3: I mean, you're listen, they're nineteen, they're drunk, they don't

1253
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 3: want to get in trouble. But you know all these

1254
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:04,960
Speaker 3: bodycam footages have been released, you know of all the

1255
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:07,680
Speaker 3: cops going to the house for these noise complaints, that

1256
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,599
Speaker 3: they were going there several times. The last thing these

1257
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:14,800
Speaker 3: young girls want is to bring trouble to the house, right,

1258
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:18,639
Speaker 3: like right, But not because you think your roommates are murdered.

1259
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:20,240
Speaker 2: Do you think you're you know, one of them is

1260
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:22,360
Speaker 2: like having a hookup or there's been some sort of

1261
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:23,719
Speaker 2: like drunken ninety.

1262
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 3: They were scared, don't want to get a noise disturbance.

1263
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 3: They were scared enough to run to the room and

1264
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:30,559
Speaker 3: you know, be texting each other like what's going on,

1265
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 3: what's going on? But at the same time, they're literally young.

1266
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 3: They're nineteen. Dylan was nineteen at the time, and she's

1267
01:11:38,479 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 3: been drinking, like I just, I never went after the room,

1268
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:44,680
Speaker 3: So it was I just I was so proud of

1269
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 3: Dylan Mortenson for kids standing up and speaking her truth

1270
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 3: and telling Brian Koberger how he basically destroyed her college

1271
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:55,840
Speaker 3: experience and killed her best friends. Yeah, I was so

1272
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 3: proud of her and Bethany Emily. Emily spoke for about

1273
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 3: at the trial, and I thought she did a wonderful

1274
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 3: job because Emily also was traumatized. I just, I was

1275
01:12:06,200 --> 01:12:09,680
Speaker 3: so so grateful that they were able to speak their

1276
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:10,760
Speaker 3: truth too.

1277
01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:13,679
Speaker 5: And I just, yeah, you said, how did you feel?

1278
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:17,800
Speaker 5: I felt very sad, and I just primarily was just

1279
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 5: I'm sending them wishes that maybe it is finally some

1280
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 5: small small bit of peace and moving forward that they

1281
01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:29,280
Speaker 5: will not have for them the trial looming over their head,

1282
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:31,840
Speaker 5: which had been many, many, many more years of their

1283
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:35,639
Speaker 5: lives waiting to have to take the stand in one

1284
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:38,639
Speaker 5: capacity or another, and that they only had to share

1285
01:12:38,760 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 5: the only things they had to say.

1286
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:42,599
Speaker 3: And I wish them peace. That's it. Speaking of wishing

1287
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 3: peace too.

1288
01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 2: The door dash driver that got a lot of play

1289
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:52,000
Speaker 2: prior to Coburger's confession. You'll remember, suddenly this footage of

1290
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 2: the door dash driver who had been anonymous prior who

1291
01:12:56,000 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 2: apparently delivered the meal to Xana and eat than just

1292
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 2: before the murders. You know, we had always heard about

1293
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:06,080
Speaker 2: this door dash driver, but then there was tape that

1294
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:08,880
Speaker 2: was leaked and blah blah bah, and suddenly this woman,

1295
01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:11,640
Speaker 2: in a very tough moment in her life, you know,

1296
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 2: confesses to police like, hey, I'm the door dash driver.

1297
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:20,000
Speaker 2: And man, people piled on online and gave her a

1298
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 2: lot of slack and she was a real hero also,

1299
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:28,559
Speaker 2: and somebody who really dodged death. And I'm just grateful

1300
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:32,600
Speaker 2: that the roommates survived, you know, God willing, and thankfully

1301
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 2: the DoorDash driver who literally you know, saw Coburger right

1302
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:39,599
Speaker 2: in front of the house and allegedly walk right past her.

1303
01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 2: That you know, thank God, she's safe too, and we

1304
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:44,719
Speaker 2: all have to be a little more compassionate with people.

1305
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 2: I mean, the pylon for the roommates in those early

1306
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:50,320
Speaker 2: days was pretty unmeasurable.

1307
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 3: I would the cops. No, you don't know what. You

1308
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 3: don't know what when you're feeling.

1309
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 2: That situation exactly exactly. They might not have even had

1310
01:13:58,000 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 2: their phone on them. You know, you just don't think

1311
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:02,840
Speaker 2: these certain terms. So that's why we have to talk

1312
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 2: about it, so we know kind of what we would do,

1313
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:07,639
Speaker 2: and then we can trouble shape that stuff. So yeah,

1314
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 2: compassion First. I get very enraged by the subject. Can't

1315
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:12,000
Speaker 2: you tell rage is an emotion?

1316
01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:15,599
Speaker 3: What do we have an ex Hi?

1317
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:21,680
Speaker 14: Everyone, This is Jessica Crocker from Newfoundland, Canada, who just

1318
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:27,839
Speaker 14: was looking at YouTube and stumbled upon a body language

1319
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:31,360
Speaker 14: expert that was analyzing.

1320
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:32,800
Speaker 3: The case body language.

1321
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 14: So I think it would be interesting if you had

1322
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:36,720
Speaker 14: somebody on to discuss those men.

1323
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 2: I'm in that's the greatest, great idea. We should do

1324
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 2: that for next week. I know a body expert, body

1325
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:47,200
Speaker 2: language expert.

1326
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:51,320
Speaker 3: If you want to know something about me, just ask

1327
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 3: did you ever ready chose that body expert? Body?

1328
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 5: Oh?

1329
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:58,760
Speaker 3: What you guys are done?

1330
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:00,600
Speaker 5: Okay, I've never said it on the show, but I

1331
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 5: say to my house no pity laughs, yeah.

1332
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 3: Adam, listen, Adam is laughing. Okay, okay, Adam, Yeah, laughter

1333
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:10,559
Speaker 3: and emotion. No, but that is a good question. I mean,

1334
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:13,680
Speaker 3: that's a good idea suggestion. Yeah, let's do that. I

1335
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:15,439
Speaker 3: don't know, let's do that next week.

1336
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:17,599
Speaker 2: You know, by the way, if you could email us

1337
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:19,760
Speaker 2: that expert that you were enjoying on YouTube, we can

1338
01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:21,160
Speaker 2: reach out to them directly as well.

1339
01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:24,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. Definitely, what have we got next, Adam, We got

1340
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:25,960
Speaker 3: time for one more? I think. Hi.

1341
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:30,759
Speaker 15: I'm Emberly from Phoenix, Arizona, and I love the show

1342
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:37,800
Speaker 15: I was calling in regard to the Idaho student murders. Obviously,

1343
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:42,160
Speaker 15: all of us can agree that this was incredibly tragic

1344
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:46,400
Speaker 15: and senseless, senseless. But the thought that I just had

1345
01:15:46,479 --> 01:15:50,679
Speaker 15: pop in my mind after being and hearing and reading

1346
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:54,880
Speaker 15: some of the details since everything has been unsealed, is

1347
01:15:55,040 --> 01:16:01,760
Speaker 15: that Ethan was passed out drunk, well Xanna was being attacked.

1348
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:06,719
Speaker 15: Doesn't that just go to show you that Ethan didn't

1349
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 15: even need to be attacked, that he was not a threat.

1350
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:14,080
Speaker 15: Brian Coberger could have just walked out of there with

1351
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 15: Ethan alive but passed out, and then possibly they would

1352
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:20,800
Speaker 15: have had a suspect in him.

1353
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:21,240
Speaker 3: Yep.

1354
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:23,960
Speaker 2: It's such a good point, and it must be so

1355
01:16:24,120 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 2: hard to have. I mean, it's so hard for any

1356
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 2: of the families, but you know, for the Shapen family,

1357
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:30,839
Speaker 2: that's really.

1358
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 3: Brutal collateral damage. It's such a scary theory, right at

1359
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:38,400
Speaker 3: least try we learned. We learned that Ethan, you know,

1360
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 3: was asleep in bed, was not a threat. He was

1361
01:16:43,160 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 3: literally sleeping on his stomach. He was not a threat.

1362
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:49,439
Speaker 3: There was no reason. Well there's no reason for any

1363
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 3: of it obviously, so like that. That's because you don't

1364
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 3: have to even pre qualify that. It's just it's just

1365
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:58,720
Speaker 3: senseless brutality. And you know, the more I try to

1366
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:03,400
Speaker 3: understand they the more questions I keep I end up.

1367
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 2: With, you know, yeah, and fifty times he stabbed Xana

1368
01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:10,200
Speaker 2: and you know, trigger alert fifty times.

1369
01:17:10,240 --> 01:17:13,840
Speaker 3: I mean, it's unbelievable. And he didn't he didn't need

1370
01:17:14,120 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 3: to her point though. Ethan was not, for for all

1371
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:20,360
Speaker 3: we know, was not even awake.

1372
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:20,920
Speaker 11: Yeah.

1373
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:24,240
Speaker 3: God, you know, God willing, you know, you can hope

1374
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:26,360
Speaker 3: for that a little bit, I know, like I really do,

1375
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:30,920
Speaker 3: poor Ethan and his ports, like his brother and sister like,

1376
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 3: oh my god, he's triplet. Ethan's triplet a triplet, Yeah,

1377
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:38,679
Speaker 3: the grace of Station. Anything about Brian Coberger behind bars?

1378
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 3: Is he having a lovely adjustment to the big leagues

1379
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:43,559
Speaker 3: or it's been.

1380
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 2: Kind of quiet. I haven't heard any reports. Well, maybe

1381
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:50,879
Speaker 2: we will eventually. Right now, I hope he's just hating life.

1382
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 2: We've been doing this talkback roulette and it's such a joy,

1383
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 2: so we want to do this every Tuesday, so keep

1384
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:59,360
Speaker 2: them coming. I think it's becoming our favorite thing, and

1385
01:17:59,400 --> 01:18:00,959
Speaker 2: it actually have one right now.

1386
01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:04,519
Speaker 12: Hi body, this is producer Ava and I decided to

1387
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:07,200
Speaker 12: watch Don't f with Katz and I had a question

1388
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 12: that I'm sure other people want to know, So I'm

1389
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:14,519
Speaker 12: curious how that experience, both just doing the investigation and

1390
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:19,040
Speaker 12: also the making of the Netflix documentary. What lessons did

1391
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:21,880
Speaker 12: you take or are there any impacts that it had

1392
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:24,479
Speaker 12: on you that inform how you do the show and

1393
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 12: how you talk about the cases that we cover here.

1394
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:28,799
Speaker 3: Thank you, She's so clever.

1395
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:30,400
Speaker 5: That's an onion of a question.

1396
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:30,840
Speaker 12: I love.

1397
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:36,320
Speaker 3: I need like ten minutes to answer that because it

1398
01:18:36,479 --> 01:18:41,519
Speaker 3: literally affected me in every way you can imagine. It

1399
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:46,400
Speaker 3: affected my love lifefect. It affected my work, It affected,

1400
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 3: you know what, the opportunity obviously in a positive way,

1401
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 3: the opportunities I have now, like I would never have

1402
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:56,040
Speaker 3: the opportunity to do something like this show had not

1403
01:18:56,200 --> 01:18:59,519
Speaker 3: that happened. But you know what, it it negatively affected

1404
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:02,360
Speaker 3: my personal life in many, many, many ways.

1405
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:05,519
Speaker 5: I was gonna say, you only because you opened the

1406
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 5: door with that at first, when you were talking about

1407
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:09,479
Speaker 5: your personal life and work.

1408
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 3: Infected No, corrected yourself. It infected me, No, one hundred

1409
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:19,680
Speaker 3: percent infected me because like when the show came out,

1410
01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:23,040
Speaker 3: I was getting a lot of attention, and I was single,

1411
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:27,880
Speaker 3: and I was getting like romantic attention, and all the

1412
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:30,240
Speaker 3: people that were showing me interest thought I had money.

1413
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 3: They thought I had because I was on an fil show.

1414
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:36,639
Speaker 3: And so now I'm just like, you know, I don't

1415
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:39,880
Speaker 3: trust anybody like I, you know, and I'm you know, anyway,

1416
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:42,880
Speaker 3: it totally negatively affected me in that way, but it

1417
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:46,840
Speaker 3: positively affected me, you know, having these kinds of opportunities

1418
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,800
Speaker 3: and folks, and you know, talking to you Eva, and

1419
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 3: you know, I never would have had these opportunities otherwise.

1420
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:54,760
Speaker 3: And you got in India in the ends, Yeah, right, Yeah,

1421
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 3: I met Indian like all those people, and I probably

1422
01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:00,479
Speaker 3: never would have met those people had it not happened,

1423
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 3: but you know it it it definitely affected me and

1424
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:06,360
Speaker 3: I still have those those issues sometimes. I wonder if

1425
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:08,439
Speaker 3: people want to be my friend or if they want

1426
01:20:08,479 --> 01:20:09,479
Speaker 3: to be Bobby move In's front.

1427
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 2: Oh you're a friend, Whe're your friend. Yeah, that's a

1428
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:17,320
Speaker 2: really interesting touch point. And remember too, for document you know, documentaries,

1429
01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:19,280
Speaker 2: people don't make money on you know, really, why do

1430
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:21,960
Speaker 2: you get paid as a standard? You know, they're really

1431
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:24,519
Speaker 2: doing it for the awareness and to be able to

1432
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 2: get the word out.

1433
01:20:25,479 --> 01:20:29,840
Speaker 3: So that can be such a misthought people. How much

1434
01:20:29,880 --> 01:20:30,240
Speaker 3: did you.

1435
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:32,360
Speaker 2: Make for a donut with cats? I'm like nothing, Yeah,

1436
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:34,760
Speaker 2: nothing for And that's like, you know, that's not why

1437
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 2: you do it. You do it because it's important stuff.

1438
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:40,479
Speaker 2: And you know, you really have to love what you're

1439
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:43,759
Speaker 2: talking about because there's not like a big pash prize

1440
01:20:44,520 --> 01:20:45,600
Speaker 2: in the ends.

1441
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 3: Right and you know it was. But as far as

1442
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:52,400
Speaker 3: the investigation go, it helped me learn what's important and

1443
01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:56,160
Speaker 3: what's noise. Yep, you know. And the thing is, though

1444
01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:58,160
Speaker 3: I learned all that, but I still go through all

1445
01:20:58,160 --> 01:21:01,240
Speaker 3: the noise just to find that important tidbit. Who does

1446
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:06,280
Speaker 3: I know? I obsess over details, ask my discord. I

1447
01:21:06,479 --> 01:21:12,160
Speaker 3: obsess over the smallest details. Today I obsessed. There's bodycam

1448
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 3: footage been released from by Brian Coberger's traffic stop weer

1449
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:18,800
Speaker 3: in August, and I'm obsessing about the location where he

1450
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:21,520
Speaker 3: was driving, what time it was. I mean, I'm obsessing

1451
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:23,280
Speaker 3: over this.

1452
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:32,679
Speaker 5: Mages, the thes, and the I'm so happy I'm.

1453
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 3: Still is what it boils down to. I'm still welcome

1454
01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:39,439
Speaker 3: to the club. We all you're not a low That

1455
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:42,240
Speaker 3: was a great question. Yeah, I could. I could talk

1456
01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:43,200
Speaker 3: about that for a long time.

1457
01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:49,240
Speaker 2: And also, if you have those more of these talkbacks,

1458
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 2: make sure you keep them coming. I know I feel

1459
01:21:51,080 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 2: like I'm on a broken record here, but just to

1460
01:21:53,280 --> 01:21:55,759
Speaker 2: like set the standard eight eight eight three one crime.

1461
01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:58,559
Speaker 2: You can leave us a message after hours, or leave

1462
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:01,080
Speaker 2: us a talk back on the iHeart radio app, or

1463
01:22:01,160 --> 01:22:02,480
Speaker 2: hit us up on our socials.

1464
01:22:03,040 --> 01:22:03,960
Speaker 3: Obviously, we will be.

1465
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:07,080
Speaker 2: Back tomorrow, and this has been an extraordinary night and

1466
01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:10,160
Speaker 2: we're so grateful for it. So you guys enjoy the

1467
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 2: rest of your night, Stay safe. True Crime Tonight