WEBVTT - Rooftop w/ Neal Baer 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.000 Of the law and order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable. 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:06.800 We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:07.640 vicious felonies. 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:10.200 These episodes are based on. These are our stories. 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:31.840 Done done, Hello, and welcome to That's Messed Up NSVU podcast. 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.680 I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger. 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.440 And every week we talk about an episode of SVU, 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:39.839 the true crime it's based on. And then we have 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:44.600 a guest from the episode, and now we gab, we 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:47.559 catch up, we chit chat. Obviously, the top of my 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:52.040 mind is Melissa McCarthy outside of a Wiener Schnitzel getting 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:53.920 hawks from murshahrt. 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:57.400 Rallying, rallying support for mrsha Hard today. I didn't even 0:00:57.440 --> 0:00:58.320 know they were friends. 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:01.640 This is like a whole new level of select friendship 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:02.520 I needed to know about. 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:04.760 And we need to get Melissa on the on SVU. 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:07.440 Yes, if they're good friends, why hasn't she been on 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:08.160 sv yet? 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:08.760 I don't know. 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:10.440 That's a really great question because I feel like a 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:11.920 lot of her good friends have been on it. 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:14.959 Get her on it, she would be an amazing criminal. Yes, 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.760 she's never gotten Hillary Swank on it either. Yeah, but 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:21.000 I think Hillary doesn't want to do it. Hillary doesn't work. 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:22.160 When was the last time she worked? 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.039 No, But Melissa McCarthy is that perfect example of like 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.000 this sweet goofball and like it would be so funny 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.000 to see her as like a killer or like a 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:31.360 psycho mom or something. 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.440 We've seen her as a criminal, but in a chill way. Yeah, 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.800 in that forgery movie, I've watched it on a plane. 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:40.200 Can you ever forgive me? Which I love? Which are 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:41.960 our friend's sister directed? 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.240 Really? Yeah, Emily Hiller's sister directed that. I didn't know 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.640 she directed that one. She is busy. Yeah. You know 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:50.120 what is cool? All those Emmy. 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.680 Nominations came out, and I know so many people nominated 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:53.040 for Emmy. 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:57.559 No, I'm just like, what am I not in Hollywood? 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:02.200 I just can'ot believe there's so many talented friends everywhere. 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.080 Yeah, congratulations to all of our pals who've been nominated 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.200 for Emmys. I want Nicole Bayer to win an Emmy. 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.680 It just means RuPaul won't get an Emmy. But RuPaul 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:12.760 has so many Emmys, So just give Nicole Bayer a 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:16.400 fucking Emmy. If you're in the Academy listening and RuPaul 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.120 would be happy for Nicole. I don't think RuPaul would 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.120 be like, fuck that bitch, let's sliter through. I think 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:23.639 you would be like, hell yeah, my. 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.400 Girl, Yeah exactly because that video you posted of her 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:29.240 in the wheelchair with a boot on her leg being 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:32.600 wheeled around wipe out was that deserves an Emmy and 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:34.000 it's I. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:34.920 Took many of those. 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.000 I took like four of those on different days and 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:38.960 was like, I'm going to make these into a montage 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:40.280 for you, and I just never did it. 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.080 Oh, that would be too tough. But yeah, Bowen Yang 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.520 is that iceberg. He's got to win being the iceberg 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:48.399 from Titanic. 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:50.160 That's that's goo. Yeah. 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:53.600 There's like also, yeah, people are nominated for like little 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.520 categories that like you know, performing in a short or 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:58.239 like in other stuff too. It's just a lot of 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:02.000 people that are in our enter and secondary circles. 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:04.400 Yeah, maybe I can get myself oh and Hacks her 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.480 favorite show, but maybe I can get to an after party. 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:08.880 That'll be the goal. 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:12.400 A comic last night at my show was like safe space, 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:13.880 and I was like sure, because you know, I love 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:15.919 to talk shit. She was like, I don't like Hacks 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:16.840 and I was like, I can't. 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.240 Talk to you about this. I'm sorry, Like, Hacks is 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:20.720 basically to me a perfect show. 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.720 Wait, you can bleep her? Who was it? Bleep the name? 0:03:23.840 --> 0:03:25.280 Let's do who was it? 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:25.480 Well? 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:27.440 It was I don't know if you know her. 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:28.800 I do know her, but I thought it was going 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:30.400 to be our good friend Blair. And I was like, 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:32.040 do I have to stop speaking to Blair? 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:32.120 No? 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.880 No, I don't think Blair would have a hot take 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:39.720 on Hacks to be how but yeah, she was like, 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:40.320 can we like? 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.040 And I think she thought I was going to be like, yes, 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:43.560 I hate it too, and I was like, oh, I 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:45.640 really can't. I like loved it so much, and I 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:47.480 was very public about how much I love it. So 0:03:47.560 --> 0:03:50.080 I really can't like talk shit with you right now. 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.760 But I wanted to really quickly shout out to the 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:57.120 dozens and dozens of listeners who contacted us about their 0:03:57.200 --> 0:04:01.680 pop rock fellatio experiences. I would say nine out of 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:03.920 ten of you did not enjoy. 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:04.800 It at all. I heard. 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.320 We got a lot of stories about pop rocks getting 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.119 stuck in pea holes. We got stories about guys saying 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:13.440 it's about like sandpaper on their junk, a couple girls 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.680 were like it made it taste better, or like he 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:18.600 kind of liked it. A couple of people said they 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.440 had a good time with it, but not very many. 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.080 Most people thought it was a bad endeavor. 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.400 Yeah, I don't Yeah, I don't want it's yeah, I 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:27.520 don't get it, honestly. 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:29.720 Like somebody also wrote that you have to get fresh 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:31.960 pop rocks, like you can't get stale ones, Like you 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.000 have to check and make sure that they're really fresh. 0:04:34.160 --> 0:04:37.080 So how do you check anyone's plint? I don't know. 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:39.440 It's like I think you can kind of tell, maybe 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:41.880 by shaking the package if they like are loose and 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.400 they're shaken up, that they're that they're from, like they're 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:45.520 not stuck together. 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:47.600 You know what I mean. I don't know. I'm literally 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:48.600 spitballing here. 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:49.040 I don't know. 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:51.479 I don't know if I've mentioned this on the pod before, 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:55.080 but I remember there were rumors that a girl gave 0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.679 a blowjob and got bubble gum stuck in the guy's pubes. 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:01.960 And it was I was a young age where I 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.680 was like shocked that anyone's even sucking a dick and 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.359 so but I remember being like, oh, I guess they're cool. 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:10.920 Yeah that sounds like a something about Mary type of 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:11.960 thing that would happen. 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.480 Well, yeah, there was so. I mean, childhood rumors are wild. 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:17.560 There was one guy my football team. Everyone said he 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.000 fucked a dog, and I was just like, yep, John 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:20.599 fucked a dog. 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:20.960 That's that. 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.040 There was one girl where they're like, yeah an orchestra, 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:29.280 she had pubes in her braces, and it's like, really, 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.600 I don't know, just yeah, rumors are crazy, but yeah, 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:33.000 I was. 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:36.200 Everybody was. I love our audience is very. 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:37.960 Like open, and everybody was just like, okay, here's what 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:40.560 happened when I suck my boyfriend's dick. Like everybody was 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:41.800 just very open telling us. 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:45.000 What's up in the DMS. And I think it's it's 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:46.760 a no for me on the Pop Rocks BJ. 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.120 But I do remember for some reason, this is a 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:51.800 vivid memory of mine from a cosmo I read when 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:53.400 I was in high school. But it said to like 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.320 put hair ties around dix and I was like, this 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:58.440 is you don't need accessories. 0:05:58.960 --> 0:05:59.440 Yeah. 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.000 I was just like they're like, take the scrunch you 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.279 off your head, tie it on a dick, and I'm like, 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.960 adults are crazy. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:10.359 Adults are crazy. I mean, this is stuck with me 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.320 now for what eighteen years, Like, I can't Cosmo was 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:15.640 like so fun to read when you were like thirteen, 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:16.560 Like it was so. 0:06:17.000 --> 0:06:19.600 Like, if you're a grown up reading Cosmo, you need 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.440 you need professional help, you need an intervention. 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:25.640 Cosmo is for children. Yeah, you know what I. 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.480 Started reading after like would I was like maybe fourteen fifteen. 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:29.720 If i'd be like on a flight or something, I 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:32.479 would starting some No, I would get maxim. I actually 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:33.920 thought that the articles were really funny. 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:38.120 Mmmm yeah. Vanity Fair to me, is that the king 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:40.839 of well, that's the adult you know. I'm a subscriber. 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.000 One day, maybe I'll get a New Yorker. And this 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:45.960 is the thing with the New Yorker. I start an 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.320 article and then I'm like, I'll finish this later. Never 0:06:48.360 --> 0:06:50.919 finish it later. Yeah, so I know, like the first 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.480 four paragraphs of every New Yorker article that's geared towards me. 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.159 And then I just I can't. 0:06:56.440 --> 0:06:59.400 Well, Vanity Fair and New Yorker both will do sometimes 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:03.120 like really good long ass expose's about crimes, like they 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.760 will do like really I remember reading about Amanda Knox. 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:07.280 I think in Vanity fair. 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:09.840 Like a lot of I've read about a lot of 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.480 like kind of more obscure murders that maybe happen like 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:16.560 abroad in those publications, and they're fun. I always like 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.120 when like there's a sort of a crimey one in 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:19.880 one of those. 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.480 Yeah, there's a new crimeing Netflix show, but I think 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:24.640 it's dubbed. 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:27.440 And uh oh and in Sami about Brazil. Yeah, and 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:31.000 what is it when the letters when it's letters. 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.480 Oh, subtitles, Yeah, I don't want it. No, well, listen, 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.559 it's not. I started, I started watching it. They dubbed 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:38.480 the whole thing, so, which is other people's voices are 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:39.240 speaking English. 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.920 Okay, Okay, I can handle that. I don't think I 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:43.360 had it with subtitles on. I don't think. 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:45.400 I think, well, because I love a doc where the 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:46.880 killer goes yeah I killed him. 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:48.960 Yeah, but this is why, you know, I like. 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:51.120 But it's kind of interesting like that we don't have 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.040 that much dubbing in the US, like and so it 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:54.680 feels like because like English. 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.080 Is so you know, the main language in a lot. 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:00.440 Of places, and like it's it's like they're are they 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:02.880 are like voice actors. Like there's a woman that's acting 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:04.760 as this woman who killed her husband, you know, and 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.640 she's like he called me this, like he tried to 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:09.520 take my daughter away. And it's just interests, like an 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.280 interesting I don't know, like to dub for a documentary 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:14.720 and not like you know what I mean, not for 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:16.160 movies or like fiction. 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.320 It's interesting what I did instead of watch that. 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:23.600 As I watched, I would say, forty episodes of Manifest. 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:26.800 Oh, yes, that's your new thing. Yeah, And I watched 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:28.800 This is Pop. I watch that. 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:33.320 It's like every episode's about a different story about pop music. 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.439 And the one that I was telling care about this 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:37.400 is the one that I'm the most obsessed with is 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.400 the one about Sweden. It's episode three, and it's all 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:43.640 about that record label, Max Martin, Dennis Pops and like 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.400 all the Swedish hit makers up until now, Like I 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:49.840 didn't realize that the Swedes were still doing all the 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.600 Demilevado songs, all the like this is America that song, 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:56.640 like that's a Swedish guy with long hair. And so 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.480 they just talk about why Sweden is so awesome and 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:03.720 the English so they said, like with Eurovision and everything, 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:07.600 English is the main language and the reason the Swedish 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:09.520 do such a good job with pop music. There's lots 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.720 of theories. Is they have they don't know English that well. 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.480 They do, but it's pared down and that's why the 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.800 songs are so universal because it's the simplicity. 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.920 Of the language where it's so cool. 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:23.000 Yeah, they pair it all down because hit Me Baby 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.480 one more Time was gonna be hit me Up. It's 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.760 about a phone call, but it didn't fit in the music. 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.440 Like to them, music comes first. They write the music 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.480 and then fill in the words, and so hit me Baby, 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:36.560 which we were like she wants to get slapped and 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:39.480 it wasn't It was about like hit me up, like 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.680 call me Yeah. So they just talk about like language 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.680 is interesting and that's why all of them have worldwide hits. 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.320 It's like simple language that everyone in the world can understand. 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:50.800 That's so yeah. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:52.720 I mean, if you think of like Ace of Bass, 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.480 I mean I loved all that they're Swedish. 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.080 Ace of Bassis part of the documentary. Of course, I 0:09:58.120 --> 0:09:59.120 was a huge as of Bass. 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:00.760 I used to calls you one undred in New York 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:02.160 when I was in eighth grade all the time and 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:03.120 ask them to play the sign. 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:07.480 I used to like, I mean, as a recent immigrant 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:11.559 Ace of Bass was everything like that was our families 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:15.280 everything like I had a VHS Ace of baits like 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:19.560 the nine Oh amazing. But they also they say the 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.920 Swedes are so good because they like to show how good. 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:23.880 They are, not talk about it. 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.640 And I'm like, I don't relate, but they're just like, 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:28.080 we like to get work done. 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:29.320 We're not supposed to brag. 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:31.240 No one's I did write a quote down one of 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.920 the guys was goes, it's unbecoming the brag, especially when 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:35.720 you don't have to. 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:37.439 And I was like, that's a good one. That's a 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.280 good quote. Yeah. But Manifest, let me know. I haven't 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:44.679 finished it. But it's a soap opera but with magical powers. 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:46.880 There's like sci fi in it. 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:51.560 It's sci fi, it's fortune telling, it's mysticism, it's families, 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:52.440 it's the government. 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.880 Don't bring it up to Jared. We're already watching Evil. 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:57.360 I can't get another show like that. 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:00.120 And I don't think he would like it because it's 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:02.640 too campy. I don't think Jara would be like this 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:04.719 doesn't make sense, like he wouldn't. 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:07.760 It wouldn't be linear to hand wow, I spot on 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:12.520 impression of mine, right, he would be mad. 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.520 I know you would be mad because like at one episode, 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:17.880 it's like, it's the government, the government's after us, and 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.800 our kid has cancer. Next episode, the kid doesn't have cancer, 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.520 never mentioned again, and the government's taking a break, like 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.320 and suddenly tarot cards are king. 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:32.280 It's very very strange. That's really funny. 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:35.280 But one of the characters that is is in the NYPD. 0:11:35.800 --> 0:11:39.880 So, oh, okay, maybe they'll be a crossover Manifest Is 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:40.520 it on NBC? 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:42.520 You're watching it on Netflix? I know, but is it 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.560 an NBC show? I don't think so, is it. 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:48.360 I'm just saying When it is, then there's more chance 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.680 of across. Marishka shows up on Manifest. One of the 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.040 Manifest people shows up at the sixteenth Precinct. 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:57.319 Manifest ended. Oh it ended, okay, So this is like. 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.680 My imposter thing where I'm like, I need another season 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:01.200 and they're this ended eight years ago. 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:03.760 I kind of love that Netflix gives shows like that, 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:05.640 like a sort of second wave of fans. 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:08.480 I think that's cool. Oh and let's shout out. 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.080 I didn't start watching it yet, but our friend Ashling 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:15.440 I saw biboards all across LA of her show, which 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:16.760 I think is one of the best shows I've ever 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:20.319 seen in my life, and season two is getting critically acclaimed. Yeah. 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:21.800 Her show is called This Way Up. 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:26.480 It's on Hulu here in the States, and it's on Jeez, 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.200 it's in your She's Irish, so I know we have 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:31.800 Irish listeners. It's on where you guys are in the UK. 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:33.959 I just don't know what the channel is, but follow 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.680 her Instagram as we miss be and she's so great. 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.000 I loved the first season so excited for the second season. 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.880 She canceled on hanging out with me in New York 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:44.800 once so she could finish something for the second season. 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.760 So make it worth make it worth me getting stood up. Okay, 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:49.720 just watch it. It's great, Lisa. 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:52.400 I need to save you from getting hounded online that 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.600 Hillary Swank did just start in a Netflix TV show. 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.520 She was in like two seasons. It's called Away. She 0:12:57.600 --> 0:12:59.400 was also just in a movie, so she is working. 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:01.720 I'm saving you for getting today. 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:07.040 I'm not against Hilluis Swang Swank, Army, rise up, Lisa. 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.040 The last time I saw Hillary Swank working was in 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:12.760 the Comedians and Cars getting coffee with Julia Louis Dreyfus 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:15.280 and they're driving around and Hillary Swank was trying to 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.040 get a parking spot and they accidentally ran into her. 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:22.959 That's the last time I saw her. Well, she's back, baby, 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:25.160 She's on Netflix in a show we've never heard of. Ye, 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.600 congrats to her. Let's get started. We've got a great 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:33.520 episode today. All right. 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:38.600 I'm so excited to go back into the past a 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:42.920 little bit and do this episode, which is it's called 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.920 Rooftop and it is from season three, episode four, so 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:49.199 we're the original three seasons. 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:52.720 October nineteenth, two thousand and one. This air to this episode. 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:54.280 Sometimes I just like to say the date so we 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.840 can place ourselves in the time period, so very early aughts. 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.400 Hosts nine to eleven only a month out. 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:03.520 Yeah, a month after nine to eleven. Great, I didn't 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.079 even think about that. Yes, I don't know why I 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.120 didn't think about that. I don't always think of everything 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:10.240 in context to nine to eleven, but yes, that is 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:10.800 very close. 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.640 Well, you know, my favorite tweet of all time is 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.800 someone going that they were in college and someone asked, 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.560 what's the biggest defining moment of the two thousands, and 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:22.200 he's like, thank god, I didn't raise my hand. I 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.080 was going to say Britney spears and it was nine 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:28.640 to eleven and I will share it every time I 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.960 see it. And yeah, nine to eleven was huge. 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:38.040 Yeah, I mean Britney's pretty huge too, and she keeps enduring. Okay, 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:42.320 so we open this episode on a couple making out 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:43.080 on a rooftop. 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:44.680 She looks very young. 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:47.760 He's like, come over here, there's a better view in 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:49.680 this part of the building. So like they're moving around 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:51.600 this little rooftop to try to like make out with 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:52.440 the hottest. 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:53.160 Background I don't really know. 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.440 And then they hear a door open their footsteps. It's 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.080 Stabler and Benson. They're to bust up this makeout session 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:00.800 and the guy and they go little. The girl's like, 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.640 who's that and he's like, oh, it's the Sex Police, 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:05.880 and you know that is one of my favorite nicknames 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:09.480 for the sv crew. This guy's name is Leon, and 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.360 Stabler really has it out for him. Stabler reveals that 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:14.200 Leon has only been out of prison for two weeks 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:17.760 and his quote already back at it. So we kind 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:19.200 of find out that this guy's got a thing for 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.480 underage girls. This girl is fourteen, and they were definitely 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.000 about to have sex, and then Stabler reveals that Leon 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:28.160 is HIV positive, which you are definitely not allowed to 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.400 disclose other people's HIV status. But we all know how 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:35.400 Stabler feels about rules, and that is going to come 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:36.880 up a lot more times in this episode, so we 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.200 can have a conversation about how unethical that is. But 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:41.320 that is what happens, and that takes us out of 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:45.960 the cold open into the credits, and now at the precinct, 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.280 Elliott is sitting down face to face with Leon, asking like, 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.440 how many little girls have you done since you got out? 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.040 Leon's not here for Stabler trying to send him back 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:56.760 to the joint, so he's just like, I was going 0:15:56.840 --> 0:15:57.480 to use protection. 0:15:57.520 --> 0:15:58.680 I don't know what you're talking about. I'm going to 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:00.920 wait for my attorney to get here so he lawyers up. 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.160 We find out that Leon was in jail for five 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.120 years for a sex act with an underage girl, because 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.680 Stabler finally got someone to. 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.320 Testify that they had sex. 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:16.120 Because I think he's had many many victims of underage girls, 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:19.480 but only one was able to testify and do a 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:22.360 bring forth real charges, so he did five years. Right 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:24.880 at this moment in the episode, our girl, Samantha Howard 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.040 Corbin aka Corbyn Miller's name pops up in the credit, 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.440 so she was a consulting producer on this episode. 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.200 Just a counted, just a fun little thing. 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:37.200 I noticed a pre married I guess Samantha Howard Corbyn. 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:40.200 Cabot is like, well, you can't arrest this guy based 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.360 on something he might have done. And the show deals 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.600 with this a few other times, like down the road 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.720 of Like remember there's that episode where the guy has 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:51.640 like a full kill room based in his basement of 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:56.160 his apartment and he says he's like, I fantasize about 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:58.040 killing children, but I've never done it, and it's like 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:00.840 thought crime, Like can you arrest people for things that 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.720 they are like about to do or might do? So 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:06.000 that's kind of what's going on here. Cabots like, you 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:10.080 don't really have any anything, and Stabler is like, well, 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:12.879 you can get him on a tempted rate because of 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.440 the girl's underage and reckless endangerment because of his AHIV status, 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.600 and Cabot's like, listen, I might be able to do 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:21.400 something here. I might have a little trick up my sleeve, 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.400 but I need Huang and I need you to get 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.680 him all the prison records and medical history over to 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:28.400 to Huang so we can see if. 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:28.880 It will work. 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:33.200 This guy's rap sheet, Leon started at seven years old. 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:35.520 He had eleven arrests by the time he was thirteen, 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:37.800 and like no one stops to ever be like, hmm, 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:40.760 think Leon might have had a traumatic upbringing, Like do 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:42.560 you think this might be part of the problem, Like 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:45.920 your rap sheet starting at seven is like that's no accident, 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:51.480 Like something's going on, you know. So meanwhile, Craigan tells Elliott, 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:53.520 I'm not going to let you just follow every purple 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:57.320 around who might reoffend, And Elliott goes, this guy's penis 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:58.960 is a deadly weapon, and he's got a thing for 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.440 young girls. He's not wrong, but I think you're also 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:04.200 not allowed as a cop to just go around telling 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:08.080 everyone HIV status and also sort of stalking this guy. 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.760 And it's also dangerous to zone in on someone because 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.040 you miss out on other clues or people, like you 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:19.000 can't just be like that's my guy, Like that's not. 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.359 The police work. Yeah, for sure. 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.879 Now Cabbot is walking and talking to executive Ada stan Valani, 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.600 who is a recurring character played by the lovely Ron Liebman. 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:32.919 I love this actor. He has passed away and he 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.160 was married to icon Jessica Walter, who also passed away 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.080 this year. Love them as a little couple together, they've 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:43.119 both been on his view. We find out that Cabot's 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:46.240 plan is to use a mental hygiene law that could 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:49.560 Civilly commit Leon as a danger to society, but that 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.560 would set a precedent, so it's kind of a long 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:54.280 shot at the precinct. 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:54.679 Finn. 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.119 You know, season three Finn is very different from season 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.960 twenty two Finn. He's evolved a lot, and he is 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:03.000 sort of defending statutory rapists, like, oh, what are we 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:04.959 supposed to check their birth certificates? 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:07.600 Like whatever? Like girls are looking old these days, Like 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:09.879 I don't know, it's just not true. Like that's the 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.640 whole thing, Like the girls looking old. It's like, nah, 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:13.560 I see teens. 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.200 Now I see people in college, and I'm like, who 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:17.400 are these fourth graders? 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:17.920 Right? 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.280 Like it is so obvious to me. And now I 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:22.080 even laugh at like how I used to use a 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.240 fake ID to go to bars and clubs. It's like 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:28.159 I was clearly a child, you know, everyone must have 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:28.680 known it. 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.120 Like and guys are like she was wearing a tube top. 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:33.320 Kids don't have tube tops, Like I don't know. 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.119 Like guys judge by like what they're wearing or how 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:37.119 much makeup they have on for like how old they are, 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:38.720 and it's like, no, you can pretty much tell. 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:41.240 It's like you want to fuck a kid, Sorry, you're 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:44.400 a rapists, Like there's no confusion. 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.920 I just feel like teens very much look like children. Yeah. 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.040 So now Cabat and Huang arrive on the scene. 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:52.760 Huang's like, I think I can make a case that 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:56.000 Leon has anti social personality disorder. He knows what he's 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.239 doing is wrong, and he doesn't care. And uh, you know, 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:01.960 most people that he says with HIV like act more, 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.480 you know, sort of respectful of the society around them, 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:07.760 and they disclose and they behave more carefully, and this 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.000 guy's just not doing that. We find out that he 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:14.600 contracted HIV from drugs from shooting a heroin. I think 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:19.719 in the judge's chambers, Cabbot and Leon's lawyers are fighting 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.320 it out, like they're like, you can't commit this man 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:26.000 based on something that he might have done. And he 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:28.200 had condoms and he was going to have he was 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:30.960 going to have protected sex and Cabot's like, no, he's 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.600 a danger. He expresses his narcissism and anger by having 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:37.920 sex with powerless underage girls and not disclosing his HIV status. 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:40.320 That's actually what Huang says, but that's Cabot's argument. 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:44.600 And how amazing, Like I forget how excited like to 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.439 have Stephanie Marsh and bed Wong together is nice, and 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:50.280 now that we know that they're friends and yeah, keep 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:54.080 in touch, it's like so exciting to see them together totally. 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:56.840 I love, like, I love imagining that once they cut, 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:58.760 like yell cut, they're like, want to get brunch later, 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.720 like they're just friends and yeah, the judge says, you 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.080 got to prove that he was going to have unprotected sex, 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:06.359 so I don't know how they're polanning to do that. 0:21:06.880 --> 0:21:09.479 But then a rape case comes into the precinct and 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.240 Elliott thinks it matches Leon's mo, so he'll take it. 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:14.919 Olivia is like, Elliott, I have all this paperwork to do. 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:16.480 I don't know what this is, like an episode where 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:18.639 Olivia like can't be involved because she's there, but she 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:19.960 doesn't really do anything. 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:22.760 And we didn't mention this is Pixie Pixie Maurice. 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.439 Oh yes, this is Pixie. I think the almost she 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:29.600 almost got fired for it cut and Finn volunteers to 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:31.359 go with. So a lot of this episode is like 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:33.119 Stabler and Finn working together. 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.440 In the hospital, we meet this poor tea girl. 0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:38.600 This girl's a really great actress because I feel so 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.480 sad for she's like telling about her attack, like through tears, 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:43.960 like she's really really like it's really heartbreaking. 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:47.159 And there's something with like when an eye is covered 0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:51.160 with a bandage, it like escalates the oh no, yes 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:53.560 so much it makes it all worse. 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.440 Yeah, you're right, and Ipatri really ups the ante. 0:21:56.880 --> 0:21:59.200 So she says she met this guy down the block 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:01.520 from where she lives. He said he was a promoter 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:03.439 and could help her get a wrap audition, that his 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:05.960 name was Andre, that he took her to a real restaurant, 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.360 walked her home, then brought her up to the rooftop 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:10.639 started to kiss her and when she said stop, he 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:12.720 slapped her and pulled a knife on her and raped her. 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:15.840 And he said that he was quote the love machine 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:17.639 and was going to make her into a woman. And 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:20.600 Elliot's like, I've heard that love machine line before, Ding ding, 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:23.360 ding My encyclopedic memory for cases that go back into 0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:26.280 the early nineties. So Elliott remembers that this case from 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:29.000 nineteen ninety three where the purpse said that, and he 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:31.679 contacted the victim and the victim has aids. 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:34.359 So in his mind, this is Leon. 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:38.080 This is like something Leon's done, even though I've heard 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:40.280 no proof so far in this episode that Leon's done 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:44.520 anything violent to coerce these women into like to rape 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:47.199 these women's He is statutorily raping them because they are 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:49.919 under age, but they are all like consenting even though 0:22:49.920 --> 0:22:51.360 they're not allowed to consent. You know what I'm saying, 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:53.800 is this like sticky language. I'm just saying he has 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:56.080 not pulled a knife, he has not used violent force. 0:22:56.240 --> 0:22:59.520 Well, that's where the discussion in the argument comes in. 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.840 Where if you have a disease like this and you 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:06.800 unknowing like you do not tell people. It's like what 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:10.000 Stabler said, it's a penis with a deadly weapon, So 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:14.280 are you using it? So that is violence purposely? Try 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:18.920 like injecting someone with HIV is violence? 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:19.120 No? 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:21.960 No, absolutely, What I'm saying is the ems of these 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:24.960 crimes where this guy pulled a knife is not matching 0:23:25.000 --> 0:23:25.200 to me. 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:27.680 That doesn't match Leon. Leon's never pulled a knife or 0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:28.000 a gun. 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:31.400 He just sweet talks these teenagers and then yes, has 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:34.280 sex with them and has HIV, which is horrible, but 0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:37.120 it's just to me, it's not totally matching emos. So anyway, 0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:43.119 Finn and Stabler are staking out Leon's place. Finn confides 0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:46.439 that he doesn't relate that this is like his neighborhood. 0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:49.000 He grew up ten blocks from here, ground zero for 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:52.359 the sixty eight riots, like he lives in Harlem and 0:23:52.400 --> 0:23:55.359 this he grew up in Harlem, excuse me. And he 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:57.359 doesn't like that somebody is like out there making his 0:23:57.359 --> 0:23:59.320 neighborhood more dangerous for young girls. 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:02.040 And I do have to add that iced tease ponytails 0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:02.959 in full fluff. 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:05.480 This is full fluffin full. 0:24:05.680 --> 0:24:08.760 Yeah, his ponytail is trying to get an Emmy for 0:24:08.800 --> 0:24:13.320 Best Supporting Actor here. So Leon rolls up with a 0:24:13.359 --> 0:24:17.080 seventeen year old girl once again, Stabler like pushes them 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:19.800 off against the car, starts to arrest him, and discloses 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:22.080 his HIV status to the seventeen year old girl, and 0:24:22.119 --> 0:24:24.240 she's like, what the fuck, Like she didn't know, so 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:29.040 she pieces out and then they have the nineteen ninety 0:24:29.040 --> 0:24:31.280 three victim come in to do a lineup. She can't 0:24:31.280 --> 0:24:33.240 I D him. It's been you know, at this point, 0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:36.040 seven or eight years. She can't id the guy. And 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:37.840 then they bring in the poor girl from the hospital 0:24:37.840 --> 0:24:40.000 with the ipatch. She's in a wheelchair. She can't I 0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:41.960 D him either, and she's like crying again. I thought 0:24:42.000 --> 0:24:44.480 this girl was such a good actress. That's in my notes. 0:24:44.520 --> 0:24:47.240 She is an amazing actress. Yeah, let's see if she's. 0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:50.400 She's like maybe once my eye gets better, I can see. 0:24:50.520 --> 0:24:54.280 Like it's so sad, so like, I just hate when 0:24:54.520 --> 0:24:56.520 they have to do lineups and they feel like they're 0:24:56.560 --> 0:24:59.000 failing by not being able to point out their attacker, 0:24:59.000 --> 0:24:59.480 because it's. 0:24:59.400 --> 0:25:02.520 When really the cops are failing by not having the 0:25:02.600 --> 0:25:05.080 right person in the light yet maybe right, Sorry, if 0:25:05.119 --> 0:25:06.640 I want ahead of Scotch. 0:25:06.880 --> 0:25:10.119 No, no, totally. So they have to cut Lee on loose. 0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:13.680 So now at two of this episode is where things 0:25:13.720 --> 0:25:16.639 fucking amp up. Now we're at a crime scene and 0:25:16.680 --> 0:25:20.439 a girl has been tossed from a rooftop on fire, 0:25:20.840 --> 0:25:24.879 like so horrific. Her name is Aisha Thompson. She's fourteen. 0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:27.840 The saving grace. I guess is that she was dead 0:25:27.880 --> 0:25:30.840 before he lit her on fire. I mean, he this 0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:34.520 person who killed her, uh, strangled her after she performed 0:25:34.600 --> 0:25:37.600 oral sex on him. And then suddenly this guy like 0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:40.280 bursts into the crime scene. He's hysterical and upset. His 0:25:40.400 --> 0:25:43.000 name is Rodney and this is his sister. Finn knows 0:25:43.080 --> 0:25:44.879 him from the neighborhood. He says he was up all 0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:47.640 night looking for her. She'd just been accepted to Stuyvesant. 0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:50.800 She was going to be somebody, and Rodney's like, what 0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:52.960 are you doing to solve my sister's murder? So like 0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:55.320 already you're getting this thing where Rodney's just like get 0:25:55.320 --> 0:25:57.880 on it, like fix it, you know, figure out who 0:25:57.880 --> 0:26:01.840 did this. Finn and Stabler they go talk to this 0:26:02.920 --> 0:26:07.640 corporation council I think, or you know, whoever covered Leon's 0:26:07.680 --> 0:26:10.200 cases when he was a juvenile, and the guy tells 0:26:10.280 --> 0:26:12.720 him that Leon always seemed like a serial killer in 0:26:12.760 --> 0:26:15.320 the making to him, that he tortured and killed pets, 0:26:15.760 --> 0:26:18.439 he torched the treatment facility that he was staying in 0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:21.280 at one point, and that nine of his eleven callers 0:26:21.320 --> 0:26:25.679 are for Arson. So again that's interesting, but none of 0:26:25.680 --> 0:26:28.040 that matches what he's doing now. He's like, we haven't 0:26:28.040 --> 0:26:30.840 seen him, like he hasn't like pulled weapons or done 0:26:30.880 --> 0:26:35.080 anything that seems like physically violent, aside from of course, 0:26:35.200 --> 0:26:38.760 infecting his young victims with HIV, which is horrible. At 0:26:38.800 --> 0:26:41.800 the precinct, Huang says that Arson makes two out of 0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:46.000 three for the triad of sociopathy, which apparently is killing animals, 0:26:46.000 --> 0:26:49.159 setting fires, and the third is, according to Munch, bedwetting, 0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:53.679 which means I was one out of three on the 0:26:53.720 --> 0:26:56.480 tryoud of sociopathy because I wet the bed for a while. 0:26:56.560 --> 0:26:56.720 Guy. 0:26:56.960 --> 0:26:59.920 What It also really makes these killers seem less threatening 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:02.280 knowing that they're all pissing the bed too, you know. 0:27:05.000 --> 0:27:08.960 So Drue, Yes, I have obviously not into setting fires 0:27:08.960 --> 0:27:10.920 and have never harmed an animal, so I guess I'm 0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:12.360 not going to pass that test. 0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:16.280 Huong suggests that the cops. 0:27:15.920 --> 0:27:18.960 Following him might have set Leon off, and that's what 0:27:19.400 --> 0:27:24.160 like escalated him to murder, and Stabler's like no, no, no, no, no, 0:27:24.280 --> 0:27:25.520 like you can't blame. 0:27:25.280 --> 0:27:27.560 Us for this, like he's getting all mad and pissy. 0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:31.280 Well I also love because bd Wong response to that, 0:27:31.320 --> 0:27:34.600 and he's like, I'm profiling not accusing. Yeah, you know, 0:27:34.880 --> 0:27:38.000 like it's not about you, Stablery, can you believe that? 0:27:39.000 --> 0:27:41.320 He's like, I'm just saying my facts and doing my 0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:44.679 job and it's not always about what's going on with you. 0:27:45.560 --> 0:27:49.080 Finn and Stabler go talk to Leon's mom. She's initially 0:27:49.160 --> 0:27:51.600 like kind of like pissy at them, like, you guys 0:27:51.640 --> 0:27:52.960 are going to try to put my son in jail 0:27:52.960 --> 0:27:54.359 for no reason. And they're like, we just caught him 0:27:54.359 --> 0:27:56.879 with another teenager. So, and she's like, I don't know 0:27:56.880 --> 0:27:58.800 why he is the way he is. I tried to 0:27:58.880 --> 0:28:02.119 raise him right. And she's a legend. Actually she's an 0:28:02.200 --> 0:28:05.520 SVU legend. Yeah, she was in she's been in a 0:28:05.520 --> 0:28:09.080 few episodes, but she was in the episode this latest 0:28:09.119 --> 0:28:12.320 season where she was the judge that put away that 0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:17.159 bad NYC government official. She's the one that like is 0:28:17.160 --> 0:28:19.400 like the rules can play both sides, bitch. 0:28:19.520 --> 0:28:21.000 Adrian Lennox her name is. 0:28:21.000 --> 0:28:24.000 Adrian was yes, and she was the one that was like, 0:28:24.040 --> 0:28:25.840 even though this is what the law calls. 0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:27.600 For, I'm giving you a worse punishment. 0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:30.080 Basically because he did that to the boy that raped 0:28:30.119 --> 0:28:33.240 He was like, actually, I don't believe it. You're off 0:28:33.520 --> 0:28:36.840 And so she has like she's iconic, and she's like, hey, babe, 0:28:36.880 --> 0:28:39.000 it actually works both ways, and I don't like their 0:28:39.000 --> 0:28:40.200 sentence and I'm going to make it worse. 0:28:40.240 --> 0:28:42.960 How do you like them? Yes? Yes, yes, this is 0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:44.520 Wentworth Miller episode two. 0:28:44.720 --> 0:28:47.400 Yeah, so it's cool that she was in season three 0:28:47.600 --> 0:28:51.560 and season fucking twenty two, so it's really it's cool. 0:28:51.640 --> 0:28:53.000 They love to bring people back. 0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:56.960 The mom thinks that her son might be shooting dope 0:28:57.000 --> 0:28:59.360 again and said that the cops were because the cops 0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:01.600 were dogging him and he couldn't handle going back to prison. 0:29:02.040 --> 0:29:04.440 So Finn and Stabler are like, let's go check out 0:29:04.440 --> 0:29:07.600 the rooftop because we know Leon loves rooftops. Finn talks 0:29:07.600 --> 0:29:10.360 about how instead of vacations to Aruba back in the day, 0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:12.920 they would go to a roofa which was like how 0:29:12.960 --> 0:29:15.320 they would probably like lie out in the sun or whatever. 0:29:15.480 --> 0:29:19.000 In Harlem was just go on the roof and they 0:29:19.120 --> 0:29:22.520 up there. Unfortunately, they find Leon dead from an od 0:29:23.960 --> 0:29:27.800 like just up on the rooftop. And while there are 0:29:27.840 --> 0:29:30.320 discovering his body, they get a call about another body. 0:29:30.360 --> 0:29:33.880 This is another girl, another teenage girl, raped, killed, beaten 0:29:33.920 --> 0:29:37.160 with a brick and Melinda Warner is there the Emmy 0:29:37.280 --> 0:29:40.280 and she's like, this couldn't have been Leon. This girl 0:29:40.320 --> 0:29:42.920 was killed this morning and Leon died last night. So 0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:46.200 Stabler immediately is like, fuck, I was going down the 0:29:46.200 --> 0:29:49.880 wrong road and now these two girls are dead. One 0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:54.400 girl extremely like, you know, badly beaten, and you know 0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:56.640 it's like stable, Maybe if you weren't such a one 0:29:56.680 --> 0:30:01.160 track mind person, you could check out a couple different leads. 0:30:01.840 --> 0:30:03.400 I was about to be like, how do you just 0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:05.920 keep making the same mistakes over and over? But then 0:30:05.960 --> 0:30:07.840 I remembered I do that all the time, So what 0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:10.760 are you gonna do? Yeah, my stakes are just lower. 0:30:12.840 --> 0:30:13.240 Leon. 0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:17.320 Leon's mom is at the precinct and she's like, yeah, 0:30:17.360 --> 0:30:19.480 maybe you didn't kill my son, but you two, you 0:30:19.520 --> 0:30:21.600 all cops love to stick together. 0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:21.680 Don't you. 0:30:21.760 --> 0:30:24.280 She has kind of like a great final scene, and 0:30:24.360 --> 0:30:29.520 then they id the latest victim. All these victims are black, young, 0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:32.920 good students, have never been in trouble. So that basically 0:30:33.040 --> 0:30:36.960 leads Huang to conclude that this part must be well educated, attractive, 0:30:36.960 --> 0:30:39.600 and seem trustworthy, because these aren't girls that are like, yeah, 0:30:39.720 --> 0:30:41.960 let's go like do drugs or hang out. 0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:43.520 These are like good, good girls. 0:30:43.280 --> 0:30:45.160 So like why are they going off with this person? 0:30:46.040 --> 0:30:50.200 In further profiling this perp, Huang says, any challenge to 0:30:50.240 --> 0:30:53.560 his sense of control would set him off like these, 0:30:53.840 --> 0:30:56.320 Like even hearing the word no is what could just 0:30:56.360 --> 0:30:58.000 totally cause him to flip a switch. 0:30:58.440 --> 0:31:02.040 And this is an important scene because I feel that 0:31:02.520 --> 0:31:05.600 is a discussion we have even today where guys are 0:31:05.640 --> 0:31:07.720 like just say no, Just say if you don't like 0:31:07.880 --> 0:31:10.800 a guy hitting on you, just say stop. Yeah, it's 0:31:10.880 --> 0:31:14.040 like no, it's actually quite dangerous. Yeah, this, so this 0:31:14.160 --> 0:31:15.760 is like a very important scene. 0:31:15.760 --> 0:31:19.160 I think, yes, absolutely, And this is an interesting thing 0:31:19.200 --> 0:31:21.280 that I didn't really think about, but is so true 0:31:21.280 --> 0:31:23.840 if you look at like a lot of serial killers 0:31:24.000 --> 0:31:26.200 or like guys that you find out about that have 0:31:26.360 --> 0:31:30.520 wives or girlfriends like that, Guys like this, Hon says, 0:31:30.600 --> 0:31:33.800 usually have a submissive wife or girlfriend. Like I have 0:31:33.840 --> 0:31:36.520 a joke about Ted Bundy having a girlfriend the entire 0:31:36.600 --> 0:31:39.240 time they were dating, and like she was like a 0:31:39.440 --> 0:31:41.400 more of a submissive woman and she just wanted a 0:31:42.200 --> 0:31:43.640 father for her child. 0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:45.640 So she was like the perfect part. 0:31:45.680 --> 0:31:47.600 Like he never did anything to her, he never hurt her, 0:31:47.680 --> 0:31:50.240 he never did anything like violent to her, and he 0:31:50.400 --> 0:31:53.120 was the most violent serial killer. So it's interesting to 0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:55.200 me that a lot of these guys keep a wife 0:31:55.240 --> 0:31:58.360 or girlfriend around, maybe for appearances, maybe for alibis. I mean, 0:31:58.360 --> 0:32:02.440 who knows, because yeah, I think a lot of people think, oh, 0:32:02.480 --> 0:32:04.560 it's the single, creepy guy that's doing it, not the 0:32:04.600 --> 0:32:07.080 guy that has a girlfriend with a kid or whatever. 0:32:07.160 --> 0:32:09.560 You know, Like that kind of gives you what did 0:32:09.600 --> 0:32:12.280 we just we just talked about like the butcher baker 0:32:12.320 --> 0:32:14.440 from Alaska, Like no one thought about him because he 0:32:14.480 --> 0:32:16.479 was like a baker that had a wife and two kids. 0:32:16.560 --> 0:32:20.479 You know, like people definitely think that a family, kids, 0:32:20.520 --> 0:32:24.560 a wife, whatever kind of precludes you from being a 0:32:24.640 --> 0:32:26.920 killer or a psychopath, and it certainly does not. 0:32:27.680 --> 0:32:30.600 So Rodney shows up in. 0:32:30.600 --> 0:32:33.400 The precinct and he's very pissed that they still don't 0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:38.320 have the sister's killer. And then another girl is found, 0:32:38.360 --> 0:32:40.880 so this is the third murdered girl that they are 0:32:40.920 --> 0:32:42.960 finding in this episode, which is great, and it's all 0:32:43.000 --> 0:32:46.080 on rooftops and the super at. 0:32:46.000 --> 0:32:48.200 The building is like very sad. He's like, I really 0:32:48.200 --> 0:32:50.400 tried to keep the building safe, like this girl was 0:32:50.440 --> 0:32:53.880 such a good girl. And then they speak to this 0:32:54.000 --> 0:32:56.520 victim's mother and she's like, I sent my daughter to 0:32:56.680 --> 0:32:59.360 the corner store for milk and bread. And then when 0:32:59.400 --> 0:33:02.280 they go to the corner the store, Clark remembers a 0:33:02.320 --> 0:33:04.480 guy coming in behind her and saying that they knew 0:33:04.480 --> 0:33:05.440 each other. They were chit. 0:33:05.400 --> 0:33:08.120 Chatting, laughing it up, and that they left together. So 0:33:08.760 --> 0:33:12.760 that gives the cops something to go on, and uh, basically, 0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:16.280 the super puts it together with the description of the victim, like, oh, 0:33:16.280 --> 0:33:18.480 this looks like a guy in my building, Malik Harris, 0:33:18.520 --> 0:33:20.760 who has recently shaved his head and his beard, and 0:33:20.880 --> 0:33:23.960 that matches the description. So they go up to Malik's 0:33:23.960 --> 0:33:26.560 apartment and they're like, are you Malie Harris And he's 0:33:26.560 --> 0:33:30.040 like yeah, but professionally, I'm known as King, So red Flag, 0:33:30.280 --> 0:33:31.640 you're in the Kingdom. 0:33:31.680 --> 0:33:36.040 For those Sex in the City heads here, Malik Harris 0:33:36.240 --> 0:33:38.959 is in one of the most cringe worthy episodes of 0:33:38.960 --> 0:33:39.680 Sex and the City. 0:33:39.680 --> 0:33:41.680 But when Samantha dates. 0:33:41.320 --> 0:33:45.480 A black man, this is the black man that she dates. Yes, 0:33:45.640 --> 0:33:50.400 he is like the music producer, yeah, and like he 0:33:50.760 --> 0:33:53.040 has a sister, a Dina, who owns like a cool 0:33:53.120 --> 0:33:56.320 Southern fusion restaurant, and she doesn't want them dating, but 0:33:56.880 --> 0:34:00.640 they're like, Samantha just does so many embarrassing things. 0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:06.240 But he is a hot guy and he fucks Samantha. 0:34:06.040 --> 0:34:09.440 So yeah, he is very hot. So not man in 0:34:09.440 --> 0:34:11.719 this episode, not hot in this episode. 0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:15.279 No. So when they walk into his apartment, he has 0:34:15.320 --> 0:34:16.759 a girlfriend who's kind of like, who is that? 0:34:16.880 --> 0:34:18.480 He's like, no one that concerns you. 0:34:18.560 --> 0:34:21.080 Like, he's extremely rude to his girlfriend and like screams 0:34:21.120 --> 0:34:22.920 at her in front of the cops multiple times. So 0:34:22.960 --> 0:34:25.759 I think that's like red flags. We just talked about 0:34:25.840 --> 0:34:28.680 having a submissive wife or girlfriend. 0:34:28.840 --> 0:34:32.520 Well yeah, he says, you may now dialogue, Like right, 0:34:33.000 --> 0:34:37.600 I can't even imagine someone saying that in my vicinity. 0:34:37.440 --> 0:34:39.080 And the cops definitely pick up on that and they 0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:39.480 fuck with it. 0:34:39.680 --> 0:34:42.080 There would be an SVU episode based on my crime 0:34:42.200 --> 0:34:43.200 if someone said that. 0:34:43.600 --> 0:34:46.759 He told me I could dialogue, so I murdered him. 0:34:47.320 --> 0:34:50.440 He admits that he saw the girl. Yeah, she's in 0:34:50.440 --> 0:34:51.799 my lives, in my building. I saw her at the 0:34:51.800 --> 0:34:53.600 corner store. I walked her home. She shouldn't be out 0:34:53.600 --> 0:34:56.560 that late, and then his to give an alibi, he 0:34:56.600 --> 0:34:58.960 says to his girlfriend, now you may dialogue, and she 0:34:59.040 --> 0:35:02.839 alibies him now. When they're walking out of the building too, 0:35:03.080 --> 0:35:05.840 Munch and Finn are like, you may now dialogue. 0:35:05.880 --> 0:35:07.799 They're like talking shit about him as they walk out 0:35:07.840 --> 0:35:08.640 of the building. So I'm glad. 0:35:08.640 --> 0:35:10.520 The cops are also like, this is not an okay 0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:13.200 way to talk to a woman. And then Rodney, the 0:35:13.239 --> 0:35:17.120 brother of Aisha, rolls up with a big group of people, 0:35:17.320 --> 0:35:19.799 being like, these cops don't care what happens to like 0:35:19.840 --> 0:35:23.960 people in this neighborhood. I see diffuses a situation perfectly. 0:35:24.120 --> 0:35:26.560 He's like, I don't care. I'm standing right here trying 0:35:26.560 --> 0:35:28.520 to find out who did it. Why don't you talk 0:35:28.520 --> 0:35:31.319 to the media that doesn't cover the murders of three 0:35:31.320 --> 0:35:34.319 black girls in this neighborhood, you know, like, and so 0:35:34.480 --> 0:35:35.839 he tries to get Rodney to chill. 0:35:35.880 --> 0:35:37.480 He's like, I'm out here trying to help you. 0:35:38.239 --> 0:35:40.480 Well, not only does he stick them onto the media, 0:35:40.600 --> 0:35:43.840 he also says, but does anyone have information to help? 0:35:43.880 --> 0:35:44.920 And everyone's silent. 0:35:45.200 --> 0:35:50.239 Yeah, And that's also very deliberate improving, Like you know, 0:35:50.560 --> 0:35:52.560 I mean, the cops make it hard for a community 0:35:52.560 --> 0:35:54.480 to want to work with them, but like, yeah, you 0:35:54.560 --> 0:35:55.080 also have. 0:35:55.080 --> 0:35:56.839 To like snitch, you know what I mean. 0:35:57.480 --> 0:36:01.520 So now Malik is their number one suspect and they're 0:36:01.560 --> 0:36:03.400 looking into him, and it turns out he was in 0:36:03.440 --> 0:36:05.640 a car accident, so he was off the grid for 0:36:05.719 --> 0:36:08.440 three years recovering, like basically learning how to walk again. 0:36:08.480 --> 0:36:11.040 His legs were shattered apparently, and then he was living 0:36:11.040 --> 0:36:13.279 with his sister in Detroit. So they're like, okay, let's 0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:16.359 contract Detroit and see if there's like other victims that 0:36:16.400 --> 0:36:19.840 match this m O in Detroit, and Craigan tries to 0:36:19.880 --> 0:36:22.920 like drag Finn for bad mouthing the media, and Finn's like, 0:36:23.040 --> 0:36:26.080 white victims get more attention, and he's like, I hear you. 0:36:26.160 --> 0:36:27.719 I see where you're coming from. And he's like, no, 0:36:27.840 --> 0:36:29.799 you don't. You're not black and you're not from the hood. 0:36:30.360 --> 0:36:33.040 Two great points. Nothing I would ever accuse Craig enough 0:36:33.120 --> 0:36:36.680 being a black or from the hood. So Finn goes 0:36:36.719 --> 0:36:38.560 to meet one of his informants and he's like, I 0:36:38.600 --> 0:36:41.160 heard you're looking to jam up King. He's kind of 0:36:41.160 --> 0:36:43.560 bullshit in the rap game. He doesn't really have the goods. 0:36:43.600 --> 0:36:45.279 He just uses it to pick up women. And he 0:36:45.320 --> 0:36:48.280 buys his dope and coke from one of my corner boys. 0:36:48.680 --> 0:36:50.960 So it turns out King is a kept man, like 0:36:51.000 --> 0:36:53.480 he smooth talks ladies into paying for his lifestyle. 0:36:53.560 --> 0:36:54.799 So who knows, maybe that woman that. 0:36:54.880 --> 0:36:58.520 He asked to dialogue is paying for everything for him, 0:36:58.520 --> 0:37:01.279 because it doesn't sound like he's this rap mogul that 0:37:01.320 --> 0:37:04.880 he claims to be. Finn tells Cabot what's up, and 0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:07.120 he's like, search his house for drugs and then anything 0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:10.640 else they find there is just gravy. So then they 0:37:10.680 --> 0:37:12.600 obviously do that, and then they head to the studio 0:37:12.760 --> 0:37:15.479 where this girl is like laying down some rap track 0:37:15.560 --> 0:37:17.840 and he's sort of like the guy behind the glass, 0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:20.520 like bopping to the beat. And then in the studio 0:37:20.560 --> 0:37:22.440 they arrest him in front of everybody, and everyone's like 0:37:22.440 --> 0:37:22.920 what's going on? 0:37:23.000 --> 0:37:25.319 And the woman is terrible at rapping. She is like 0:37:25.360 --> 0:37:27.239 a real housewife trying to put out an album, you 0:37:27.280 --> 0:37:27.759 know what I mean. 0:37:27.880 --> 0:37:29.839 Like they did that on purpose. They were like, who 0:37:29.880 --> 0:37:32.000 wants to come in and just lay down really flat 0:37:32.040 --> 0:37:35.440 bars that are not good? Like that's what happened. 0:37:36.040 --> 0:37:39.439 So at the Medical Examiner's office tomorrow, Tuoney is there 0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:43.240 Melinda Warner, and we learned something very interesting. She goes 0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:46.960 to get a DNA swab from Malik, and he says, oh, 0:37:46.960 --> 0:37:50.240 that's against my religion. I'm a Jehovah's witness, and Melinda 0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:52.520 says him, even mentioning that means I can't take the 0:37:52.560 --> 0:37:54.879 sample at all, Like there's no coercion, there's no way 0:37:54.880 --> 0:37:55.520 to get the sample. 0:37:55.719 --> 0:37:59.520 And how did Jehovah's witnesses know about DNA testing? 0:37:59.600 --> 0:38:02.520 What is how is this a rule? I have no idea. 0:38:02.640 --> 0:38:04.840 I had never heard of that before, but I'm sure 0:38:04.920 --> 0:38:07.759 this show is so well researched that it's true. And 0:38:07.800 --> 0:38:09.879 it seems like something this guy would do, Like we're 0:38:09.880 --> 0:38:13.160 getting the idea of how like how manipulative and sort 0:38:13.160 --> 0:38:17.000 of like study this guy is at like hot, yeah, 0:38:17.000 --> 0:38:19.920 and diabolical at like hiding his tracks so like he 0:38:19.960 --> 0:38:22.920 knew knows immediately, Oh, you're trying to take my da. 0:38:22.920 --> 0:38:24.880 I mean she's up to his mouth with the cotton 0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:26.520 swab when he says, oh, by the way, I'm a 0:38:26.560 --> 0:38:28.600 Jehovah's witness, like he never said that before. 0:38:28.680 --> 0:38:31.720 You know, Jehovah's witness don't give blood or receive blood. 0:38:31.719 --> 0:38:32.920 They don't believe in transfusions. 0:38:32.960 --> 0:38:35.560 Okay, so probably like taking material out of someone's body 0:38:35.600 --> 0:38:37.280 for testing is like illegal. 0:38:37.320 --> 0:38:39.279 So in their illegal in their church. 0:38:39.480 --> 0:38:42.879 So he also flirts with Melinda and is like, yo, 0:38:42.960 --> 0:38:44.880 she is choice, and I'm like, you know what, you are, 0:38:44.920 --> 0:38:47.680 a disgusting killer, but you're right tomorrow. 0:38:47.719 --> 0:38:49.120 Tuney is hot, and I don't know. 0:38:49.040 --> 0:38:51.280 Why she doesn't get hit on more often by these 0:38:51.440 --> 0:38:55.040 creeps so or why there's never like a romance with 0:38:55.080 --> 0:38:59.759 her in one of the cops. She's hot. Outside the detectives, 0:39:00.160 --> 0:39:03.959 Munch and Finn are putting Malik into a car, into 0:39:04.000 --> 0:39:06.799 the cop car and they sort of Finn pushes his 0:39:06.840 --> 0:39:09.640 head so that his glasses fall off, his sunglasses and 0:39:09.680 --> 0:39:11.919 he's like, those frames are from Italy. It's like, okay, 0:39:11.960 --> 0:39:15.239 your girlfriend bought them for you. And Finn goes to 0:39:15.239 --> 0:39:17.799 pick them up and crushes them clearly on purpose, and 0:39:17.920 --> 0:39:21.760 is like offers to replace them. So then sneaky, sneaky, 0:39:21.920 --> 0:39:24.360 they get the DNA off of his glasses and guess what, 0:39:24.520 --> 0:39:27.560 his DNA matches all six murders and eight rapes. 0:39:28.239 --> 0:39:32.240 So this guy is a serial rapist and murderer. 0:39:32.520 --> 0:39:36.120 So now they're in a sort of chambers meeting with 0:39:36.160 --> 0:39:38.759 a judge trying to argue about getting the DNA in 0:39:39.320 --> 0:39:42.160 and Cabot argues that it's the same as coffee cups 0:39:42.239 --> 0:39:44.319 or soda cans, the way that the cops always like 0:39:44.440 --> 0:39:48.359 use deception to get fingerprints or DNA from people, they 0:39:48.400 --> 0:39:50.680 did in this case. And the lawyer argues that Finn 0:39:50.719 --> 0:39:53.040 assaulted Malik and stole his glasses. It was not a 0:39:53.080 --> 0:39:55.319 discarded object the way that a coffee cup or a 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:56.120 soda cam would be. 0:39:56.520 --> 0:39:58.719 So the judge says, yeah, you guys forced him. He 0:39:58.719 --> 0:39:59.279 didn't give up. 0:39:59.280 --> 0:40:01.920 His glasses is out, and then they say they have 0:40:01.960 --> 0:40:03.880 to drop the charges because the DNA is like the 0:40:03.920 --> 0:40:07.280 smoking guns, so this is pretty bad news. In court, 0:40:07.680 --> 0:40:11.400 Cabot asks for remand, and the judge she's one of these, 0:40:11.719 --> 0:40:12.879 she's the classic redhead judge. 0:40:12.880 --> 0:40:15.200 We've talked about her before. The judge is like, I 0:40:15.239 --> 0:40:17.399 know what you're doing, Cabot. You screwed up your murder case. 0:40:17.440 --> 0:40:18.960 Now you want me to do your dirty work for you. 0:40:19.080 --> 0:40:20.719 Not going to happen. So she sets the bail at 0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:23.319 two thousand dollars. Not a problem for this guy. 0:40:24.040 --> 0:40:27.840 So he's smirking, and then suddenly Rodney jumps out of 0:40:27.880 --> 0:40:32.319 the galley, attacks Malik and and Malik bites Rodney on 0:40:32.360 --> 0:40:35.040 the arm. Now they have his DNA for real, and 0:40:35.080 --> 0:40:38.279 they arrest him again, and Cabot is like, this is 0:40:38.320 --> 0:40:40.440 all a little bit too perfect, and she thinks Finn 0:40:40.440 --> 0:40:42.200 set the whole thing up, and he's like, do you 0:40:42.200 --> 0:40:43.520 really want me to tell you if I did, and 0:40:43.560 --> 0:40:46.120 she's like, not really. So it's kind of a fun 0:40:46.120 --> 0:40:49.120 little moment with those two. She thinks he definitely gave 0:40:49.440 --> 0:40:52.120 Rodney the idea for the attack and the bite, which 0:40:52.120 --> 0:40:56.440 he did. So when Malik's lawyer agrees it was a setup, 0:40:56.680 --> 0:40:59.600 Cabot's like, oh, we made your client bite somebody. 0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:01.279 We couldn't have done that. 0:41:01.719 --> 0:41:06.040 So Saylor enters with Malik's DNA match to five homicides 0:41:06.080 --> 0:41:08.279 and four rapes in Detroit during the time he. 0:41:08.280 --> 0:41:11.400 Was living there with his sister. So this guy's like, 0:41:11.440 --> 0:41:13.400 he knows he's caught, and he goes, I want a deal, 0:41:13.640 --> 0:41:16.959 and Finn goes, how about right before we execute you. 0:41:16.920 --> 0:41:21.080 I bring you your last meal. He's fucked and that's it, 0:41:21.360 --> 0:41:25.520 and that's dick wolf baby. So they end up like 0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:28.360 it's kind of an interesting episode because you start with 0:41:28.400 --> 0:41:30.440 this guy who is not a good guy, who is 0:41:30.920 --> 0:41:33.520 hooking up with underage girls and possibly infecting them with 0:41:33.640 --> 0:41:36.000 HIV just because he sort of wants to get his 0:41:36.080 --> 0:41:39.040 rocks off without protection and you know, doesn't care about 0:41:39.120 --> 0:41:42.200 other people's well being. But then it leads us to 0:41:42.239 --> 0:41:46.600 this way more I don't know, more heinous, but additionally. 0:41:46.239 --> 0:41:51.799 Definitely more heinous. Yeah, I think burning is ups the sure. 0:41:51.760 --> 0:41:53.719 Sure, but I mean you murder somebody quickly, or you 0:41:53.719 --> 0:41:55.319 give them a disease that was going to kill them 0:41:55.320 --> 0:41:55.680 over time. 0:41:55.760 --> 0:41:56.799 I mean they're both pretty many. 0:41:56.880 --> 0:41:59.840 Well, I mean that's the whole There's like this cases 0:41:59.880 --> 0:42:01.920 of very complex and we'll obviously get it into it, 0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:03.919 but HIV is not. 0:42:03.840 --> 0:42:05.239 A death sentence right now. 0:42:05.360 --> 0:42:07.560 Yes, yes, I think maybe in two thousand and one, 0:42:07.600 --> 0:42:10.680 the idea was more it was coming, yes in the nineties. 0:42:10.719 --> 0:42:14.480 But was the idea because of media and biases or 0:42:14.560 --> 0:42:18.080 based on science, because even science it was not you know. 0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:21.600 So we'll obviously get into the complexities of this case. 0:42:21.840 --> 0:42:38.360 So stick around, babies, Okay, So welcome back. 0:42:38.920 --> 0:42:40.320 There's actually two cases. 0:42:40.880 --> 0:42:42.880 The first one in the more media one is the 0:42:42.920 --> 0:42:46.960 case of Nashan Williams, and that is a nineteen ninety 0:42:47.000 --> 0:42:49.279 seven case of a nineteen year old black man who 0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:51.759 was accused of having sex with younger women while he 0:42:51.840 --> 0:42:52.920 was HIV positive. 0:42:53.000 --> 0:42:56.520 You can substitute sex for rape. Do not come for me. 0:42:57.880 --> 0:43:01.840 But the smaller moment that we will talk about is 0:43:01.880 --> 0:43:05.960 the courtroom assault. So this like when Rodney jumps and 0:43:06.000 --> 0:43:08.120 there's a bite and all of that, and that DNA 0:43:08.200 --> 0:43:11.760 being used to convict someone that comes from the headlines baby, 0:43:12.480 --> 0:43:14.480 So I'll just touch on that before we get into 0:43:14.480 --> 0:43:19.480 the Nashan Williams case. And basically this happened in Springfield, Massachusetts, 0:43:19.480 --> 0:43:22.000 but there's so many Springfields and it was really I 0:43:22.080 --> 0:43:25.400 like all the all the newspapers were like the Springfield Daily. 0:43:25.440 --> 0:43:28.600 I'm like, what state are you fucking? Yeah? There was 0:43:28.840 --> 0:43:29.640 you know, It's crazy. 0:43:29.680 --> 0:43:31.680 When I was a kid and I watched The Simpsons, 0:43:31.680 --> 0:43:34.000 I was always like, where is Springfield? Like I was 0:43:34.040 --> 0:43:36.319 always obsessed with knowing where Springfield was. And then I 0:43:36.760 --> 0:43:39.280 for some reason, because Springfield is the capital of Illinois, 0:43:39.400 --> 0:43:41.200 right it is, Yes, I was. 0:43:41.160 --> 0:43:42.120 Like, it's Illinois. 0:43:42.280 --> 0:43:44.840 The Simpsons is absolutely in Illinois. For some reason, that 0:43:44.920 --> 0:43:47.160 was just like in my head. But I've been to Springfield, 0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:50.759 Massachusetts many many times. It's twenty minutes from where I 0:43:50.800 --> 0:43:51.400 went to college. 0:43:51.440 --> 0:43:52.480 I'm assuming you know this. 0:43:52.600 --> 0:43:55.160 They picked Springfield on purpose, so no one knows where 0:43:55.160 --> 0:43:55.719 any it is. 0:43:55.880 --> 0:43:58.319 Okay, yes, yes. In my eleven year old brain, I 0:43:58.400 --> 0:43:59.799 was like, it's Illinois because that's where the. 0:43:59.800 --> 0:44:04.520 Cap But Matt Groni is from like the Portland area, 0:44:04.560 --> 0:44:06.279 And if you do go to Portland, a lot of 0:44:06.320 --> 0:44:11.840 the streets are like Flanders and like so the streets 0:44:11.880 --> 0:44:15.279 in Portland are a lot of characters of the Simpsons. 0:44:15.400 --> 0:44:17.640 So that's really fun. Okay, cool, very. 0:44:17.520 --> 0:44:19.960 Fun to walk around Portland and see that for me 0:44:20.200 --> 0:44:21.160 Crabapple Drive. 0:44:21.560 --> 0:44:23.400 Yeah. 0:44:23.560 --> 0:44:26.480 So, Alfred Gaynor is a serial killer and rapist who 0:44:26.520 --> 0:44:29.359 is active between nineteen ninety five and nineteen ninety eight, 0:44:29.400 --> 0:44:31.520 and he is serving life in prison, and he is 0:44:31.880 --> 0:44:36.480 especially heinous and so fucking awful like so many victims, 0:44:36.520 --> 0:44:39.160 he seems brutal. I wonder if there's like a fuller 0:44:39.200 --> 0:44:41.839 episode based on him. I don't know much about him, 0:44:41.880 --> 0:44:45.480 but I was like, fuck, this guy's bad. So on 0:44:45.520 --> 0:44:48.120 April thirtieth and nineteen ninety eight, during one of the 0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:51.640 court hearings, Gaynor was attacked by the son of one 0:44:51.640 --> 0:44:55.920 of his victims. So Eric Downs assaulted Gainor and it 0:44:56.000 --> 0:44:58.560 was wild, so he like burst into the gallery, he 0:44:58.600 --> 0:45:02.080 repeatedly punched Gaynor, climbed on his back, knocked into the floor, 0:45:02.480 --> 0:45:04.719 then picked up a chair and smashed it on top 0:45:04.800 --> 0:45:08.000 of Gainer. And then a woman grabbed Downs and was 0:45:08.040 --> 0:45:11.120 defending Gaynor, and we found out that's Gainer a sister, Kathy, 0:45:11.200 --> 0:45:13.080 and there was a third person involved. So it was 0:45:13.120 --> 0:45:17.880 like a full on courtroom scuffle and Eric was charged 0:45:17.880 --> 0:45:21.080 with assaultan contempt of court. I couldn't find his sentencing. 0:45:21.080 --> 0:45:23.920 Hopefully it was minimal and as a result of the 0:45:24.040 --> 0:45:27.719 DNA and fingerprint evidence from the attack, prosecutors were able 0:45:27.760 --> 0:45:31.480 to prove that the accused had indeed killed Rosemary Downs, 0:45:32.400 --> 0:45:36.080 Eric Downs, his mother, and three other people. So in 0:45:36.160 --> 0:45:38.879 May two thousand, Gainers found guilty and received a life 0:45:38.920 --> 0:45:41.960 sentence with no possibility of parole. But he never has 0:45:42.000 --> 0:45:46.120 admitted his guilt. So that's just a little tidbit. 0:45:46.160 --> 0:45:46.919 It's like when we. 0:45:46.840 --> 0:45:49.360 Talked about like Craig Pye or like it's like I 0:45:49.440 --> 0:45:52.719 just don't get when like they've got the evidence, man 0:45:52.920 --> 0:45:56.120 like you did it, Like I just don't. Never admitting 0:45:56.160 --> 0:45:58.719 guilt is like, so you're locked in a prison in 0:45:58.760 --> 0:45:59.359 your own mind. 0:45:59.400 --> 0:46:04.840 I feel like, yeah, So back to the Nashaun Williams case. 0:46:05.800 --> 0:46:09.439 So this is very in line with like Leon where 0:46:09.440 --> 0:46:12.360 he was like this wild, bad kid from the jump. 0:46:12.440 --> 0:46:14.799 But it's because he had a very tough life and 0:46:15.440 --> 0:46:17.960 it sucks that and that's why the police saying and 0:46:18.000 --> 0:46:19.839 that's why everyone's so mad at how the world works, 0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:22.399 because instead of just like helping people from a young 0:46:22.400 --> 0:46:25.360 age thrive, they put them in jail and make money. 0:46:25.920 --> 0:46:28.560 So it is really fucked up. But his mother was 0:46:28.640 --> 0:46:31.600 dependent on drugs. There was no father figure, and he 0:46:31.719 --> 0:46:35.320 was put into special education classes in Brooklyn public schools 0:46:35.400 --> 0:46:38.000 and nobody can pinpoint when he actually like dropped out, 0:46:38.120 --> 0:46:40.839 so he drops out of school. No one even knows 0:46:40.880 --> 0:46:42.640 when or how, so you can see that there was 0:46:42.760 --> 0:46:45.279 not much like guidance in his life in any way. 0:46:45.760 --> 0:46:48.840 There was nearly a dozen investigations of his mother conducted 0:46:48.840 --> 0:46:51.400 by the Child Welfare Agency from nineteen eighty one to 0:46:51.480 --> 0:46:55.759 nineteen eighty six, so like she like the government knew 0:46:55.800 --> 0:46:57.520 that she was not doing a good job, and his 0:46:57.600 --> 0:47:01.880 sisters were placed in other homes helped out, but no 0:47:01.920 --> 0:47:04.759 one really helped him, and he caused a lot of 0:47:04.800 --> 0:47:08.799 problems in the neighborhood. He beat an elderly man who 0:47:08.840 --> 0:47:11.680 regularly like would give him pocket change when he was 0:47:11.719 --> 0:47:14.800 a kid, Like he had kind of like no loyalty 0:47:14.840 --> 0:47:17.279 or morals or anything to anybody. And he beat the 0:47:17.320 --> 0:47:19.880 old man up who would like throw him cat like 0:47:20.000 --> 0:47:22.680 money once in a while. And then he went from 0:47:22.680 --> 0:47:26.280 like broken home to thievery to gangs to crack dens 0:47:26.360 --> 0:47:29.560 and just it's just kind of like the criminal pipeline, 0:47:29.680 --> 0:47:34.440 so to speak. Kind and then he ended up shooting 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:37.919 a store clerk that he talked with regularly. So this guy, 0:47:38.000 --> 0:47:41.040 Colin Lawrence, was the owner of a store on No 0:47:41.160 --> 0:47:44.120 Strand Avenue. And this case was interesting to read about 0:47:44.120 --> 0:47:47.279 two because I lived a year in Crown Heights and 0:47:47.480 --> 0:47:50.359 he's around Eastern Parkway and so all of. 0:47:50.320 --> 0:47:51.880 These streets are very familiar to me. 0:47:52.000 --> 0:47:54.040 And they mentioned the Albany Projects and that was across 0:47:54.080 --> 0:47:58.279 the street from my home. So I felt like very 0:47:58.920 --> 0:48:00.799 a part not a part of the story, but I 0:48:00.920 --> 0:48:04.480 you know, I like when I covered the case from Skochie, 0:48:04.480 --> 0:48:06.960 there's just something when you can relate to what's happening. 0:48:07.719 --> 0:48:09.960 So Colin Lawrence is the owner of the store on 0:48:10.000 --> 0:48:13.560 No Strin Avenue and he used to give like naseean 0:48:13.960 --> 0:48:16.319 dollars on the weekends so he can go have fun. 0:48:16.400 --> 0:48:18.839 And he used to talk about the Knicks like they 0:48:18.880 --> 0:48:21.359 were part of the community. And in nineteen ninety three, 0:48:21.400 --> 0:48:23.279 he entered the store with a gun and shot him 0:48:23.880 --> 0:48:25.759 but in his hand. 0:48:25.800 --> 0:48:26.360 He's fine. 0:48:26.400 --> 0:48:28.719 He lived, and he ended up not pressing charges at all, 0:48:28.760 --> 0:48:31.040 and he's just lucky to be alive. And he had 0:48:31.040 --> 0:48:33.000 a quote where he was like, yeah, have someone you 0:48:33.080 --> 0:48:35.000 know comes into rob you know they're willing to kill 0:48:35.040 --> 0:48:38.520 you because they're fucking desperate, like they have nothing to 0:48:38.600 --> 0:48:42.080 lose if you know who the person is. And so 0:48:42.120 --> 0:48:44.359 he had a robbery conviction at fifteen. He also had 0:48:44.400 --> 0:48:46.680 a murder charge at seventeen, but he only sort of 0:48:47.040 --> 0:48:49.840 served a year of it because he was acquitted of 0:48:49.880 --> 0:48:50.360 the killing. 0:48:51.200 --> 0:48:53.040 So wow, that's kind of wild. 0:48:53.560 --> 0:48:55.919 In all, he amassed eight arrests and at least three 0:48:55.960 --> 0:49:00.600 convictions through his life, and detectives from the seventy seventh 0:49:00.800 --> 0:49:03.960 Precinct said he was very hated and that people were 0:49:04.000 --> 0:49:07.200 eager to give him up and offer incriminating information about him. 0:49:07.239 --> 0:49:10.239 He had no friends, Like, not only did people hate him, 0:49:10.400 --> 0:49:12.480 but then they were also scared of him, so they 0:49:12.480 --> 0:49:14.600 were committed to wanting to get him off the streets, 0:49:14.960 --> 0:49:17.520 so they were willing to work with the police because 0:49:17.560 --> 0:49:19.440 they're like, we hate this guy, like. 0:49:19.560 --> 0:49:21.279 Please block him up. 0:49:22.280 --> 0:49:24.879 The lawyer that works with him on the nineteen ninety 0:49:24.920 --> 0:49:28.000 four murder charge that he was found not like where 0:49:28.000 --> 0:49:31.080 he was found out guilty said, and all the time 0:49:31.120 --> 0:49:34.120 I represented him, no family called me, nobody came to 0:49:34.120 --> 0:49:37.440 the trial on his behalf, like nobody, nothing cared. And 0:49:37.480 --> 0:49:40.520 when they reversed the thing, he got up, never said 0:49:40.520 --> 0:49:43.360 thank you, left, talked to nobody, Like he was really 0:49:43.520 --> 0:49:46.279 a loner. Once he left jail in nineteen ninety five, 0:49:46.320 --> 0:49:49.320 he moved to Jamestown, New York, which is wild because 0:49:49.440 --> 0:49:51.320 my best friend is from there, and I've been to 0:49:51.440 --> 0:49:55.040 Jamestown many times, so it's like, hold up, We're in 0:49:55.080 --> 0:49:58.480 Crown Heights and Jamestown, how do I know everything? And 0:49:58.560 --> 0:50:01.239 there he partied with very young girls and he would 0:50:01.280 --> 0:50:05.319 cook for them and take them shopping in Buffalo or Eerie, Pennsylvania, 0:50:05.360 --> 0:50:08.520 where our friend's husband CJ is from. Like this is 0:50:08.719 --> 0:50:11.280 a wild to connect the dots of all of our friends. 0:50:11.760 --> 0:50:14.080 But yeah, like that's the whole thing with like these 0:50:14.120 --> 0:50:16.520 grown men that prey on young women. It's like, yeah, 0:50:16.640 --> 0:50:20.239 going to a real restaurant, like from the episode. Yeah, 0:50:20.280 --> 0:50:24.080 like buying something like in Buffalo is a big deal, 0:50:24.239 --> 0:50:26.640 and it wouldn't be to someone their age. So he 0:50:26.680 --> 0:50:29.160 would go back and forth from Jamestown to Brooklyn from 0:50:29.239 --> 0:50:31.320 nineteen ninety five to nineteen ninety seven. 0:50:31.600 --> 0:50:33.040 Yeah, that's a really good point, Lisa. 0:50:33.080 --> 0:50:34.879 If you're a guy and you're like, I can't tell 0:50:34.920 --> 0:50:37.040 how old these girls are, if they're excited that you're 0:50:37.080 --> 0:50:38.960 taking them for like a meal or like to buy 0:50:39.000 --> 0:50:41.120 them a tank top, like they're teenagers. 0:50:41.480 --> 0:50:43.160 Yeah, yeah, they're too young. 0:50:44.160 --> 0:50:48.520 And then neighbors and acquaintances said that like sex was 0:50:48.560 --> 0:50:51.200 one of the most constant things in his life and 0:50:51.320 --> 0:50:54.200 that he was always having sex in public places or 0:50:54.320 --> 0:50:57.920 there was miserable circumstances involved, or he was bartering sex 0:50:57.960 --> 0:51:00.919 for drugs constantly. He was a drug dealer, He sold 0:51:01.000 --> 0:51:03.880 drugs and was a drug user. And so as we 0:51:03.960 --> 0:51:06.640 know with like HIV and IT, you know, like needles 0:51:06.680 --> 0:51:11.879 and sharing of those things also contribute to passing the virus. 0:51:12.320 --> 0:51:14.719 Like the crime that he became very known for is 0:51:15.040 --> 0:51:17.560 we were crimes against young women and the spread of 0:51:17.719 --> 0:51:21.360 HIV and AIDS that must might have infected dozens of people. 0:51:21.800 --> 0:51:25.520 It is really wild that, like there was this surge 0:51:25.840 --> 0:51:28.640 of HIV cases and it all can be tracked back 0:51:28.680 --> 0:51:34.719 to one man, Like that is very wild. So the 0:51:34.760 --> 0:51:38.000 New York Times there's like fourteen or so articles spanning 0:51:38.239 --> 0:51:41.279 a decade and more of time like this was a 0:51:41.400 --> 0:51:45.799 very sensationalized case, and like a fifteen and seventeen year 0:51:45.840 --> 0:51:48.360 old at the time of this article in October nineteen 0:51:48.400 --> 0:51:52.600 ninety seven said that he that like three friends all 0:51:52.640 --> 0:51:56.080 tested positive for HIV after having sex with him, So 0:51:56.160 --> 0:52:01.480 he was just like truly out there spreading HIV. And 0:52:01.560 --> 0:52:04.320 it's hard to pinpoint how many people he truly infected 0:52:04.360 --> 0:52:09.360 and were affected by this. So Chautago County authorities believed 0:52:09.360 --> 0:52:12.160 he infected ten or more people with HIV, and they 0:52:12.200 --> 0:52:15.760 were young girls, like around sixteen and as young as twelve, 0:52:16.760 --> 0:52:19.440 Like junior high teachers were like, yeah, he was always 0:52:19.480 --> 0:52:22.600 coming around, and of course, like I mentioned, with the drugs, 0:52:22.600 --> 0:52:24.319 it was like an even wider net. So it's like 0:52:24.400 --> 0:52:27.279 he's shopped like going to junior highs looking for young 0:52:27.320 --> 0:52:30.480 girls to prey on, and then like drugs too, So 0:52:30.600 --> 0:52:32.840 it's just like a lot of HIV could have been happening. 0:52:33.360 --> 0:52:35.600 So all the numbers kept growing and there's like a 0:52:35.640 --> 0:52:37.000 lot of discrepancies in it. 0:52:37.080 --> 0:52:39.319 So like in the start, there was like twenty eight. 0:52:39.280 --> 0:52:41.560 People that he had had sex with, and then county 0:52:41.640 --> 0:52:43.720 health officials said it was a total of one hundred 0:52:43.760 --> 0:52:46.359 and ten people identified that I'd had sex with him, 0:52:46.680 --> 0:52:49.480 and then he also gave nineteen more names, and like 0:52:49.520 --> 0:52:51.440 that's the thing. He was very giving and was like 0:52:51.480 --> 0:52:56.120 giving constant information and names of people and like, yeah, 0:52:56.120 --> 0:52:59.000 one of the girls was thirteen years old who contracted 0:52:59.160 --> 0:53:03.279 HIV from having statutory rape with him. 0:53:03.360 --> 0:53:05.560 I mean, the language of this is very, very hard. 0:53:06.239 --> 0:53:08.719 And then he admitted that he had sex with two 0:53:08.760 --> 0:53:12.440 hundred to three hundred women. Two of William's children in 0:53:12.520 --> 0:53:17.359 Chautauqua County were born with HIV no and then many 0:53:17.400 --> 0:53:20.319 of the women that were infected continued to have unprotected 0:53:20.400 --> 0:53:24.160 sex even after their diagnosis with other people that also 0:53:24.200 --> 0:53:25.080 spread the disease. 0:53:25.160 --> 0:53:27.799 So it was like he was the center of just. 0:53:27.719 --> 0:53:30.399 Like all the spikes in Chautaquoa County and in New 0:53:30.440 --> 0:53:34.920 York City of HIV. And then the media like really 0:53:34.960 --> 0:53:38.120 went wild and it was really sensationalized and they called 0:53:38.160 --> 0:53:41.239 him an AIDS monster and AIDS predator, and it was 0:53:41.320 --> 0:53:44.080 just like, you know, a lot of the press were 0:53:44.120 --> 0:53:47.480 super ignorant about HIV and racheal prejudice and then this 0:53:47.719 --> 0:53:51.960 is where so it also raises questions of anonymity. 0:53:51.400 --> 0:53:54.160 For those we talked about this who test positive. Like 0:53:54.200 --> 0:53:54.799 it used to. 0:53:54.719 --> 0:53:57.520 Be believed if names weren't kept secret, it would deter 0:53:57.640 --> 0:54:00.400 people from getting tested because of the stigma they would 0:54:00.480 --> 0:54:03.920 get so like it was hush hush, But that doesn't 0:54:03.920 --> 0:54:07.319 help track and stop the spread. So you know, when 0:54:07.320 --> 0:54:10.400 we're talking about Stabler like spreading all the gossip around, 0:54:10.440 --> 0:54:12.719 it's like they also need to know the names of 0:54:12.760 --> 0:54:15.160 people so they can help track it and help stop 0:54:15.200 --> 0:54:18.960 the spread, so that anonymity helps people get tested. 0:54:19.120 --> 0:54:22.759 It's just like very it's it's just very complicated. 0:54:22.800 --> 0:54:25.360 And if there wasn't the stigma of HIV and AIDS, 0:54:25.360 --> 0:54:27.319 this could have been treated in such a better way. 0:54:27.400 --> 0:54:29.719 But like if someone found out you were gay or 0:54:29.719 --> 0:54:33.040 something that could affect your life negatively, and so it's 0:54:33.120 --> 0:54:36.719 just like really complicated. And because of William's case, New 0:54:36.800 --> 0:54:39.960 York passed the law that mandated doctors and laboratories to 0:54:40.040 --> 0:54:43.600 report the names of individuals who test positive for HIV. 0:54:44.440 --> 0:54:47.200 Doctors are mandated to report the names of any known 0:54:47.239 --> 0:54:50.680 partners to the New York State Department of Health. Partners 0:54:50.719 --> 0:54:53.880 may be notified without permission of the patient, but the 0:54:53.960 --> 0:54:58.080 patient must be informed that their partners will be notified. Yeah, 0:54:58.080 --> 0:55:00.359 it's kind of like the contact tracing that they were 0:55:00.360 --> 0:55:02.400 trying to do with COVID a little bit. It's like 0:55:02.440 --> 0:55:05.200 if you had it, they were like, people were trying 0:55:05.239 --> 0:55:06.799 to contact you to be like, who have you been 0:55:06.840 --> 0:55:09.840 near to sort of get just reminding me of a 0:55:09.840 --> 0:55:10.440 little bit of that. 0:55:10.480 --> 0:55:10.719 The guy. 0:55:10.800 --> 0:55:12.759 Yeah, and I was on a set where we all 0:55:12.760 --> 0:55:16.480 had to wear little contract tracer things on us, and 0:55:16.560 --> 0:55:19.040 so if anyone were to test positive, they can track 0:55:19.080 --> 0:55:21.040 who we spent the most amount of time talking about. 0:55:21.400 --> 0:55:24.240 Oh interesting. Yeah. 0:55:24.280 --> 0:55:27.319 He did plead guilty to charges of statutory rape and 0:55:27.360 --> 0:55:31.160 two counts of reckless endangerment for knowingly infecting two girls 0:55:31.200 --> 0:55:32.160 with the virus. 0:55:32.480 --> 0:55:33.680 He pled guilty in. 0:55:33.719 --> 0:55:36.440 Nineteen ninety nine and was sentenced to two prison terms 0:55:36.440 --> 0:55:39.680 of two to six years for statutory rape and another 0:55:39.800 --> 0:55:42.719 term of two to six years for reckless endangerment to 0:55:42.800 --> 0:55:45.680 start after the first terms were served that should have 0:55:45.800 --> 0:55:49.439 lasted for twelve years or until April thirteenth to twenty ten. 0:55:49.880 --> 0:55:52.680 He has completed those sentences, and then this is where 0:55:52.719 --> 0:55:56.080 it gets really fucked up, because it's not like you 0:55:56.120 --> 0:55:58.360 want to be on this guy's side, but what just 0:55:58.400 --> 0:56:02.239 went down is really mess stub So he has now 0:56:02.360 --> 0:56:06.000 served a decade longer than his original maximum sentence with 0:56:06.120 --> 0:56:10.720 no release state insight. And so now we're getting into 0:56:10.760 --> 0:56:14.680 like my sources that are from organizations that are trying 0:56:14.719 --> 0:56:16.080 to help. 0:56:15.960 --> 0:56:18.280 Him get out of being incarcerated. 0:56:18.680 --> 0:56:20.719 So I'm sure they're biased in some way, and we 0:56:20.719 --> 0:56:23.000 can all make our own decisions on how we feel 0:56:23.040 --> 0:56:26.399 about this. So in two thousand and seven, New York 0:56:26.440 --> 0:56:29.360 passed a law that allows the state to prevent the 0:56:29.400 --> 0:56:32.879 release of a very small percentage of convicted sex offenders 0:56:33.160 --> 0:56:36.040 who have had a mental abnormality and are unable to 0:56:36.080 --> 0:56:38.920 control themselves in the future. And this was done by 0:56:38.960 --> 0:56:40.839 the Elliot Spitzer administration. 0:56:41.480 --> 0:56:43.440 This is sort of like in the episode with this 0:56:43.520 --> 0:56:45.920 hygiene law that the mental hygiene law. 0:56:45.800 --> 0:56:49.320 One hundred percent one hundred percent, And so the Attorney 0:56:49.360 --> 0:56:53.680 General at the time was Cuomo uh and so Cuomo 0:56:54.040 --> 0:56:57.640 insists that Nashan's HIV status has nothing to do with 0:56:57.719 --> 0:57:01.160 his confinement, but HIV was referred to more than one 0:57:01.200 --> 0:57:05.200 thousand times during his civil commitment trial, and his HIV 0:57:05.360 --> 0:57:09.160 status was a central part of the case. So April ninth, 0:57:09.239 --> 0:57:12.280 twenty ten, four days before the end of Nashon's sentence, 0:57:12.440 --> 0:57:15.719 that New York Attorney General Cuomo filed an application to 0:57:15.719 --> 0:57:19.480 have him indefinitely civilly committed. So days before he was 0:57:19.520 --> 0:57:23.320 about to be released from prison, Cuomo filed a petition 0:57:23.440 --> 0:57:27.200 av Williams confined indefinitely at Central New York Psychiatric Center 0:57:27.200 --> 0:57:31.000 in Marcy, New York as a dangerous sex offender. If 0:57:31.080 --> 0:57:33.680 Nashan had been reckless and killed someone, even with the 0:57:33.720 --> 0:57:37.000 maximum sentence for reckless homicide, he would be free. 0:57:37.920 --> 0:57:39.880 This is basically the first time in New York. 0:57:39.720 --> 0:57:43.560 That someone has been committed like this based largely on 0:57:43.800 --> 0:57:47.280 HIV status. Wow, and it could be in the country too. 0:57:47.360 --> 0:57:49.320 They can't really define it. But it's like that's what 0:57:49.400 --> 0:57:51.720 I'm talking about with the science, where it's like you 0:57:52.040 --> 0:57:55.000 are making someone be in prison for the rest of 0:57:55.040 --> 0:57:58.240 their life because they have HIV, even though if he's 0:57:58.240 --> 0:58:00.040 on his meds and his viral load is life, so 0:58:00.200 --> 0:58:02.120 he can he will not pass it. 0:58:02.160 --> 0:58:03.400 And also he has. 0:58:03.520 --> 0:58:06.840 Committed his sentence, but maybe he is someone that can't 0:58:06.840 --> 0:58:07.360 be trusted. 0:58:07.360 --> 0:58:10.040 It it's just like really difficult. 0:58:10.400 --> 0:58:13.680 So, according to court documents, Williams failed to complete sex 0:58:13.680 --> 0:58:16.960 defender treatment and had a poor prison disciplinary record before 0:58:17.000 --> 0:58:21.920 two thousand and six. He has an antisocial personality disorder, psychopathy, 0:58:22.040 --> 0:58:26.160 and sexual preoccupation. He's now forty four years old, and 0:58:26.240 --> 0:58:29.920 so there's just a lot of fucked up shit. So 0:58:29.960 --> 0:58:32.560 they say that sometimes they don't give him his medications 0:58:32.560 --> 0:58:35.120 and like don't let him see infectious disease doctors and 0:58:35.160 --> 0:58:38.120 they fuck with his medical care. But when he is 0:58:38.160 --> 0:58:40.720 on all that care, it's like really impossible for him 0:58:40.720 --> 0:58:42.880 to transmit the virus because, like I said, the viral 0:58:42.920 --> 0:58:46.000 load is low, and it's just like an added fucked 0:58:46.040 --> 0:58:48.120 up because New York had campaigns to help end the 0:58:48.160 --> 0:58:50.360 stigma of HIV and that you can live a normal 0:58:50.400 --> 0:58:53.120 life while also saying that having AIDS makes you dangerous 0:58:53.120 --> 0:58:56.000 and you need to be locked up forever, right, And 0:58:56.040 --> 0:58:57.640 so he is still locked up, and there's a lot 0:58:57.680 --> 0:59:00.640 of people that are trying to get him out of this, 0:59:00.840 --> 0:59:05.760 like indefinite hold forever. But then it's like, if you 0:59:05.840 --> 0:59:08.320 let him out, will he go back to his old ways? 0:59:08.360 --> 0:59:10.600 Will he complete stuff? Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. 0:59:10.640 --> 0:59:13.480 I'm like to play Devil's advocate, Like this guy had 0:59:13.560 --> 0:59:16.040 no just he had no regard for people. In all 0:59:16.040 --> 0:59:18.120 these years, he could have been wearing condoms and now 0:59:18.120 --> 0:59:19.920 I know there's prep and there's all these ways you 0:59:19.960 --> 0:59:22.600 can keep your viral load and basically have it a 0:59:22.680 --> 0:59:26.040 non transmittable But would you trust this man to do 0:59:26.080 --> 0:59:29.520 that since he doesn't seem to have I think that's 0:59:29.520 --> 0:59:31.960 where the anti social personality thing comes in, is like 0:59:32.000 --> 0:59:34.120 you don't care about other people in society, is what 0:59:34.160 --> 0:59:35.400 they think they're saying about. 0:59:35.640 --> 0:59:39.320 Yeah, so if that's the case, but then his initial 0:59:39.360 --> 0:59:41.360 sentence should have been more. But he was nineteen when 0:59:41.360 --> 0:59:43.800 this happened and he's now forty four years old. 0:59:44.240 --> 0:59:46.800 Yeah, I'd be interested to hear what he has to say, 0:59:46.920 --> 0:59:49.520 Like does he other interviews with him or anything or not. 0:59:49.520 --> 0:59:53.400 Really not anything new or current. Yeah, Like I'd like 0:59:53.440 --> 0:59:55.200 want to talk to him now and be like, what 0:59:55.240 --> 0:59:57.960 are your feelings like would you you know, like would you. 0:59:58.440 --> 1:00:01.520 Yeah, like you know, it's really tough because when I 1:00:01.560 --> 1:00:03.400 hear this, I think it's fucked up and he should 1:00:03.400 --> 1:00:08.040 be released. To me, it's like when we read about 1:00:08.040 --> 1:00:10.760 like Julianni and Cuomo and all these people and what 1:00:10.800 --> 1:00:12.320 they did in their past, so it was all for 1:00:12.360 --> 1:00:15.400 their political careers, Like in no way in hell do 1:00:15.440 --> 1:00:18.840 I think Cuomo cared about anybody but himself and making 1:00:18.880 --> 1:00:21.840 precedent for himself for his political career. So to me, 1:00:22.000 --> 1:00:26.280 I just don't trust his motivation for doing this. I 1:00:26.360 --> 1:00:30.520 also think it is based fully on him having HIV 1:00:31.440 --> 1:00:35.240 and obviously, like I talked about earlier when we talked 1:00:35.240 --> 1:00:37.240 about that episode, that it is fucked up knowingly having 1:00:37.400 --> 1:00:40.760 HIV and like infecting people and like doing that. But 1:00:41.800 --> 1:00:44.520 are we saying that anyone with HIV should be locked 1:00:44.520 --> 1:00:49.720 away indefinitely forever, like and that they're morely worse than 1:00:49.800 --> 1:00:53.560 other people? Like No, No, you're saying it's a slippery slope, 1:00:53.560 --> 1:00:56.040 because I mean, I don't think they're talking about locking 1:00:56.120 --> 1:00:58.280 up somebody who has HIV and then has like a 1:00:58.320 --> 1:01:01.960 wanton disregard for other people people in their sexual activity, 1:01:02.040 --> 1:01:05.920 I guess for sure. But like if he if he 1:01:06.000 --> 1:01:09.600 recklessly killed someone, he would be out of prison, no problem. 1:01:10.280 --> 1:01:12.600 Yeah, so he is being held because of his HIV. 1:01:12.640 --> 1:01:16.640 So I think he's being held based on his likelihood 1:01:16.640 --> 1:01:19.800 of reoffending, which is a slippery slope. And it's like, yeah, 1:01:19.840 --> 1:01:21.920 you can't charge people for something that they like haven't 1:01:21.920 --> 1:01:24.160 done yet. He's served his time for what he's done, 1:01:24.520 --> 1:01:26.960 and now you're basically punishing for something that he hasn't 1:01:26.960 --> 1:01:28.440 done yet, but you think he will. 1:01:28.200 --> 1:01:30.919 Do because I don't know, like there's like halfway house 1:01:30.960 --> 1:01:35.360 situations or like impatient or there's like ways too that 1:01:35.440 --> 1:01:37.080 he has to go to a parole person or he 1:01:37.080 --> 1:01:41.000 can have a stabler follow his ass Like I don't I. 1:01:40.920 --> 1:01:42.800 Don't really know, but. 1:01:44.720 --> 1:01:50.360 It feels fucked up that Cuomo can just enact this 1:01:50.600 --> 1:01:53.920 and keep someone confined for the rest of their life. 1:01:54.600 --> 1:01:57.160 And it's just him. There's like not even any cases 1:01:57.360 --> 1:01:59.560 like this. There's very very easy. 1:01:59.720 --> 1:02:02.000 I think maybe there's been more since or something, but 1:02:02.080 --> 1:02:03.920 like it was the first of its kind to be 1:02:04.120 --> 1:02:08.240 like someone to be held indefinitely, because what we're saying 1:02:08.280 --> 1:02:11.360 is that we trust our leaders and we don't, right, 1:02:11.440 --> 1:02:13.080 So it's like if we're giving the power to that, 1:02:13.120 --> 1:02:15.080 like that's the whole thing it's power to the people. 1:02:15.120 --> 1:02:17.240 Like that's the whole point of this country. It's like 1:02:17.280 --> 1:02:20.120 a jury of your peers and a jury of his 1:02:20.240 --> 1:02:23.440 peers gave him the maximum sentence that he could have 1:02:23.560 --> 1:02:26.840 and he served that. And to just have some governor 1:02:26.920 --> 1:02:29.800 who was an attorney general who wants to be a 1:02:29.800 --> 1:02:37.040 political powerhouse, who we now know as like a fucking creep, yeah, 1:02:37.080 --> 1:02:42.640 and has committed weird crimes within his offices, and so 1:02:42.840 --> 1:02:46.919 it's like this fucking creep can lock up other people indefinitely. 1:02:47.480 --> 1:02:50.160 Like Cuomo's a shady character, you know, Like and all 1:02:50.240 --> 1:02:51.920 this stuff came out and all of a sudden, New 1:02:52.000 --> 1:02:55.360 York's open and weed's legal. Like he is playing a 1:02:55.360 --> 1:02:58.720 selfish game. Most politicians are. So it's just like I 1:02:58.760 --> 1:03:01.880 don't trust them. If it was a board of psychologists, 1:03:02.080 --> 1:03:06.360 if it was a board of social workers and scientists 1:03:06.360 --> 1:03:08.920 and doctors and they all came together and had a 1:03:08.960 --> 1:03:12.920 hearing and decided this guy is unsafe, that's fine. 1:03:12.920 --> 1:03:15.200 But to just have this dude, it's like fucked up. 1:03:15.640 --> 1:03:16.560 I think he's popped up. 1:03:17.400 --> 1:03:21.560 Well, it's definitely complicated, but you did find a resource 1:03:21.560 --> 1:03:22.760 that we're going to recommend later. 1:03:22.840 --> 1:03:23.680 During Sister peg. 1:03:23.720 --> 1:03:26.920 That looks really interesting if people want to sort of 1:03:27.240 --> 1:03:28.320 get more in depth than that. 1:03:28.880 --> 1:03:30.160 Yeah, So that's that. 1:03:30.840 --> 1:03:35.400 Yeah, And now let's talk to our guest, who I 1:03:35.400 --> 1:03:37.640 think you guys are going to be really excited about. 1:03:45.000 --> 1:03:47.400 Okay, our Camro. 1:03:49.400 --> 1:03:54.680 Returning guest, our first ever returning guest. We by popular 1:03:54.720 --> 1:03:58.840 demand have brought him back. He is a amazing show 1:03:58.920 --> 1:04:02.840 runner around executive. He show ran on Order SVU from 1:04:02.880 --> 1:04:05.840 seasons two to twelve and he's an icon. We are 1:04:06.000 --> 1:04:08.960 so excited to ask him a bunch of questions that 1:04:09.000 --> 1:04:09.959 you guys sent us. 1:04:10.440 --> 1:04:12.919 So check out our interview with mister Neil Bayer. 1:04:13.720 --> 1:04:17.760 Since we've last spoken to you, Christopher Maloney's ass has 1:04:17.800 --> 1:04:20.120 become a cultural touch point. 1:04:21.280 --> 1:04:22.560 What was that GQ or. 1:04:22.560 --> 1:04:28.160 Something interview mag that was like back in the days 1:04:28.160 --> 1:04:28.840 of OZ. 1:04:30.040 --> 1:04:33.160 That's like twenty Let's see, when I started on SVU 1:04:33.200 --> 1:04:36.320 in two thousand, Chris was on OZ and he was 1:04:36.360 --> 1:04:40.400 going back and forth like he'd shoot OZ on the weekend. Wow, 1:04:40.600 --> 1:04:43.600 that's twenty one years ago. So has his ass changed 1:04:43.600 --> 1:04:44.439 in twenty one years? 1:04:44.480 --> 1:04:44.920 I don't know. 1:04:47.080 --> 1:04:51.120 In rooftop there's kind of a classic SVU moment we 1:04:51.160 --> 1:04:54.680 would say where you know iced Tea purposely knocks down 1:04:54.920 --> 1:04:57.640 the purpse glasses and then gets to use them for DNA. 1:04:58.200 --> 1:05:00.960 And we were wondering what your favorite kind of SVU 1:05:01.040 --> 1:05:02.520 classic moments like that are. 1:05:02.960 --> 1:05:05.560 Oh, you mean like the straw trying to get people 1:05:05.560 --> 1:05:06.520 to drink soda. 1:05:07.080 --> 1:05:10.360 Yeah, I mean it's like, like I love that. Every 1:05:10.360 --> 1:05:12.640 time there's like a can, I'm like, don't drink. 1:05:13.080 --> 1:05:19.720 But pizza, you know, you know, giving them like salty, Hey, 1:05:19.800 --> 1:05:21.880 here's some chips. I think we did that, and it's 1:05:22.000 --> 1:05:26.360 like get them all like you know, parch so that 1:05:26.360 --> 1:05:30.600 they'll want something to drink, and then going through trash 1:05:31.120 --> 1:05:34.240 and we've done we did that, you know, so there's always. 1:05:33.920 --> 1:05:36.560 Like how do you get get somebody to spit at you? 1:05:37.160 --> 1:05:41.040 I mean it's like I think we did that in Rooftop. 1:05:41.280 --> 1:05:43.640 You know, they set it up so that ice well 1:05:43.840 --> 1:05:46.360 iced Tea sort of sets up the brother of this 1:05:46.520 --> 1:05:47.919 victim to attack the. 1:05:47.840 --> 1:05:50.800 Guy so that he bites him. And then when we 1:05:50.800 --> 1:05:52.960 were doing our research, there is kind of a famous 1:05:53.000 --> 1:05:55.400 case of this happening. Did you guys know about that? 1:05:55.560 --> 1:05:56.840 Was that like incorporated? 1:05:57.520 --> 1:05:57.800 Yes? 1:05:58.360 --> 1:06:02.400 Yes, because we're always we had and I presume they 1:06:02.440 --> 1:06:02.880 still do that. 1:06:02.960 --> 1:06:03.440 I don't know. 1:06:03.680 --> 1:06:07.840 We had a full time researcher, so literally just every 1:06:07.880 --> 1:06:08.840 day getting. 1:06:08.520 --> 1:06:11.800 New stuff, Like do you remember we did an episode about. 1:06:11.560 --> 1:06:16.120 A guy two different versions of this and two different episodes. 1:06:16.160 --> 1:06:20.280 A guy was a suspect and he gave his DNA 1:06:20.440 --> 1:06:22.040 his blood and it didn't match. 1:06:22.760 --> 1:06:25.120 Oh yeah, we discussed this episode with. 1:06:25.160 --> 1:06:27.080 The two with two that's what. 1:06:28.120 --> 1:06:28.720 Yeah. 1:06:28.760 --> 1:06:31.560 Yeah, so I read that story and I said, well, 1:06:31.600 --> 1:06:32.440 we've got to do that. 1:06:32.880 --> 1:06:37.720 So that tube guy was really like bizarre. And then the. 1:06:37.720 --> 1:06:39.960 Other version of it, in a sense was I remember 1:06:40.000 --> 1:06:44.240 talking to Michelle Fizikas and Tara Butters about this and saying, you, guys, 1:06:44.320 --> 1:06:47.120 this would be a really interesting episode where a guy 1:06:47.320 --> 1:06:49.919 gives his blood and he's not a match, but they 1:06:50.120 --> 1:06:51.000 know he's the perp. 1:06:51.040 --> 1:06:53.000 And the answer was he'd had. 1:06:52.880 --> 1:06:56.280 A bone mirror transplant, right because he had had cant 1:06:56.360 --> 1:06:59.040 he had had leukemia, and so his blood is not 1:06:59.160 --> 1:07:04.160 going to match his his uh saliva or other other things, 1:07:04.200 --> 1:07:07.160 so that's how you know. And then of course the 1:07:07.200 --> 1:07:10.560 famous one with the you know based on doctor Money. 1:07:11.640 --> 1:07:13.920 Where you don't know which they're. 1:07:13.720 --> 1:07:17.680 Identical twins at birth even though one had a botched 1:07:17.720 --> 1:07:22.840 circumcision and so you don't get their their DNA matches. 1:07:23.400 --> 1:07:25.960 We just did that one because the fans that was 1:07:26.000 --> 1:07:29.280 our most requested identity was like our most requested episode. 1:07:29.320 --> 1:07:32.120 So funny story is I have these friends who are 1:07:32.160 --> 1:07:37.280 twins in La the Inton twins, Edmund and Gary. 1:07:37.720 --> 1:07:40.680 And they looked really familiar to me when I met them, 1:07:40.720 --> 1:07:41.160 like at a. 1:07:41.120 --> 1:07:43.160 Dinner and I said, you guys look really familiar and 1:07:43.160 --> 1:07:45.800 I'm like really, and I said, you know, you try 1:07:45.800 --> 1:07:47.840 to figure out, like where did I meet you? It 1:07:47.840 --> 1:07:55.240 turned out they auditioned for the twins. 1:07:55.160 --> 1:07:58.040 So yeah, I was wondering in terms of like the 1:07:58.120 --> 1:08:02.680 victims injuries, is that like makeup and here is that direction? 1:08:03.000 --> 1:08:05.200 Is that like come off your notes? And how do 1:08:05.240 --> 1:08:07.640 you decide what they're going to look like? 1:08:09.240 --> 1:08:12.040 So it's a collaborative effort. 1:08:12.080 --> 1:08:15.440 We have what's called a constant meeting that we do 1:08:15.600 --> 1:08:18.599 right after the script comes out, and the director has 1:08:18.760 --> 1:08:22.040 seven or eight days of prep. So they prep for 1:08:22.360 --> 1:08:26.360 seven days and then they shoot for eight nine days, 1:08:26.479 --> 1:08:27.920 sometimes a little bit more. 1:08:27.800 --> 1:08:29.360 Depending on what the episode is. 1:08:29.880 --> 1:08:33.080 And sometimes we do what's called crossboarding, or we'll shoot 1:08:33.080 --> 1:08:34.280 two episodes. 1:08:33.800 --> 1:08:35.280 At once or tandeming. 1:08:35.800 --> 1:08:38.000 So we did that's how we did so many episodes 1:08:38.040 --> 1:08:41.040 some years is that we'd have Ice and Belzer doing 1:08:41.120 --> 1:08:43.120 a scene. We'd have mrsch and Chris doing a scene, 1:08:43.160 --> 1:08:46.160 then Rushtan Bellser doing a scene and Chris and Ice 1:08:46.200 --> 1:08:48.880 doing a scene, and we'd be shooting two episodes at once, 1:08:49.439 --> 1:08:52.360 so we have more more shows that season. I don't 1:08:52.400 --> 1:08:55.599 think they do that anymore. It was really hard to do, 1:08:55.640 --> 1:08:56.559 but it was fun. 1:08:56.960 --> 1:08:57.400 And so. 1:08:59.320 --> 1:09:02.719 In terms of makeup, all of these things are discussed 1:09:02.720 --> 1:09:06.599 in the concept meeting, so everybody is there, every department head, 1:09:06.680 --> 1:09:10.479 So the director, the directing producer so during my time 1:09:10.880 --> 1:09:15.280 the eleven years was Ted Kotcheff, the line producer, David 1:09:15.320 --> 1:09:18.840 de Clerk, Gail Barringer, so they're in charge of the budget, 1:09:18.880 --> 1:09:25.880 the locations person Trisha Aldessik, and then hair, makeup and wardrobe. 1:09:25.920 --> 1:09:30.080 And so when we have certain elements like a look. 1:09:29.920 --> 1:09:34.559 Of someone that would need like prosthetics or things like that, 1:09:35.479 --> 1:09:40.800 we would have sidebar conversations after we had read through 1:09:40.840 --> 1:09:45.000 the script with all of the department heads to really talk. 1:09:45.360 --> 1:09:49.200 In particular, like when we when Stephanie left the show 1:09:49.280 --> 1:09:53.000 the first time because she got blown up, we had 1:09:53.040 --> 1:09:55.679 a lot of conversation that had to blow up the car, 1:09:56.320 --> 1:10:01.439 and then I knew we had planned that it was 1:10:01.760 --> 1:10:05.800 she was put into witness protection, but you know, we 1:10:05.840 --> 1:10:08.599 didn't want to give that away right away because we thought, 1:10:08.640 --> 1:10:11.080 you know, Stephanie might want to come back, you know, 1:10:11.120 --> 1:10:13.280 and they all keep coming back over and over. 1:10:13.680 --> 1:10:15.720 You know, tomorrow Tindi comes back, and you. 1:10:15.680 --> 1:10:19.120 Know, they all they all come back, so unless they're 1:10:19.240 --> 1:10:23.960 killed like Mike Doyle's character, you know, when Stucky, when 1:10:23.960 --> 1:10:25.680 Stucky killed him, you know, we had to have a 1:10:25.720 --> 1:10:28.599 sidebar for that, like you know, the blood and all that. 1:10:28.800 --> 1:10:31.240 Sort of stuff when we stabbed him. Are we killed 1:10:31.280 --> 1:10:32.840 Sister Peg? I love si. 1:10:33.280 --> 1:10:35.240 Oh when you killed Sister Peg? 1:10:35.439 --> 1:10:39.880 Well, wildly, that's one of our friend's girlfriends. He texted me, going, 1:10:40.000 --> 1:10:42.960 my girlfriend's the one that like Stabler shot. I'm like, 1:10:43.000 --> 1:10:48.160 are you kidding me? You're dating Royalty. Speaking of bringing 1:10:48.160 --> 1:10:51.920 people back, they recently just did like Born Psychopath and 1:10:51.960 --> 1:10:55.400 they did ten years later. Is there any episodes during 1:10:55.439 --> 1:10:58.320 your time that you would love to see a continuation on? 1:10:59.240 --> 1:11:02.040 There are so many, Like in terms of when you 1:11:02.080 --> 1:11:04.200 do a show that's not really in the sort of 1:11:04.240 --> 1:11:07.400 full consciousness of the audience like we did the first 1:11:07.439 --> 1:11:11.800 show about giving a. 1:11:10.960 --> 1:11:17.600 Trans teenager hormone blockers, and so that was with Aisha Hines. 1:11:17.200 --> 1:11:19.680 That episode, I remember she played the principal. 1:11:21.040 --> 1:11:23.920 I'd like to see what happened like with that kid, 1:11:25.120 --> 1:11:27.479 because that was not even talked about. 1:11:27.560 --> 1:11:29.680 Because I'm a pediatrician, I knew about it. 1:11:30.200 --> 1:11:32.640 But you know, a good example would be from a 1:11:32.640 --> 1:11:36.400 different show where when I did ER, I worked with 1:11:36.439 --> 1:11:40.200 Gloria Rubin, who was on SPU of course as an 1:11:40.240 --> 1:11:42.679 attorney US attorney. 1:11:43.320 --> 1:11:45.120 She did like the story. 1:11:45.200 --> 1:11:47.679 She did a story, a really good one about sex 1:11:47.720 --> 1:11:53.439 trafficking kids in the US. So I asked John Wells 1:11:53.600 --> 1:11:58.120 on ER if you would bring Gloria back in year fourteen, 1:11:58.200 --> 1:12:01.920 the year before ER ended. She left in year five 1:12:02.000 --> 1:12:04.360 I think of R and he did, and he showed 1:12:04.360 --> 1:12:08.160 her as a physician, a physician assistant who was doing well. 1:12:08.600 --> 1:12:11.760 She had HI she was HIV positive, but she was 1:12:11.800 --> 1:12:12.599 taking medication. 1:12:12.760 --> 1:12:14.439 She was living a full, in active life. 1:12:14.520 --> 1:12:17.000 And people love seeing that, they love seeing that sort 1:12:17.000 --> 1:12:20.400 of positive side. So it'd be interesting, you know, to 1:12:20.439 --> 1:12:22.880 bring you know, if they could bring Belzer back or 1:12:22.880 --> 1:12:25.880 something too. You know, we brought we brought on his 1:12:26.160 --> 1:12:33.519 wife from homicide Carol Kine psychon in an episode because 1:12:33.560 --> 1:12:34.599 you know, I just think it's fun. 1:12:34.640 --> 1:12:35.360 So that's kind of. 1:12:35.360 --> 1:12:40.160 An illustration of that where we brought someone back in 1:12:40.200 --> 1:12:45.479 a sense from another show. Because Belser's character much had 1:12:45.520 --> 1:12:47.080 this continuat line. 1:12:46.880 --> 1:12:51.479 Through many different shows, and so we were able to 1:12:51.479 --> 1:12:52.519 do that we brought back. 1:12:52.880 --> 1:12:57.600 For instance, we brought Marlee Matlin back because Belzer loved. 1:12:57.280 --> 1:12:57.920 Working with her. 1:12:57.960 --> 1:13:00.760 She was nominated for an Emmy for her, so we 1:13:00.840 --> 1:13:03.080 brought her back, and so we would do that. 1:13:03.280 --> 1:13:05.599 Marcia day Harden, we love, so we brought her back. 1:13:05.800 --> 1:13:09.400 Yeah, we but for the Marley Maitland. So there are 1:13:09.479 --> 1:13:11.880 characters you could tell really at a bond. So that 1:13:12.160 --> 1:13:15.639 was written or did you see their vibe on set 1:13:15.760 --> 1:13:16.800 or it was just both. 1:13:16.720 --> 1:13:20.240 Saw on the vibe. No plan to have Marlee twice. 1:13:20.600 --> 1:13:23.880 But Richard loved working with her and he was like, wow, 1:13:23.920 --> 1:13:26.880 I just really you just said it. I vibed with 1:13:26.920 --> 1:13:29.040 her that we just said we got to bring it 1:13:29.120 --> 1:13:30.559 back and we'll make it really sad. 1:13:31.479 --> 1:13:34.799 We have a bunch of these questions from our audience 1:13:34.800 --> 1:13:36.320 and we can just ask them to you and if 1:13:36.320 --> 1:13:38.800 you want to just pass, just say pass or not 1:13:38.880 --> 1:13:39.519 doesn't make. 1:13:39.400 --> 1:13:40.559 Sense or whatever. 1:13:42.360 --> 1:13:44.759 So so one person asked, what is the biggest medical 1:13:44.800 --> 1:13:46.760 inconsistency in SVU. 1:13:47.280 --> 1:13:49.200 That the DNA comes back so quickly. 1:13:49.600 --> 1:13:51.840 Yeah, that's an easy one. 1:13:51.880 --> 1:13:57.120 I mean because with Mike Doyle's character and Tamartine's character, 1:13:57.200 --> 1:13:57.879 they were. 1:13:57.680 --> 1:13:58.960 Like so quick. 1:13:59.439 --> 1:14:01.920 But but I don't think that we made stuff up. 1:14:02.400 --> 1:14:05.960 We were using the best technology that existed at the time. 1:14:06.240 --> 1:14:07.760 I think I mentioned this before that. 1:14:08.320 --> 1:14:14.840 SBU is really an amazing historical assessment of what's available. 1:14:15.160 --> 1:14:18.280 And the show kept using new techniques. 1:14:18.320 --> 1:14:21.000 So when I started, they had blackboards and then went 1:14:21.040 --> 1:14:24.240 to dry erase boards, and then we went to cell phones, 1:14:24.280 --> 1:14:26.679 and we went to GPS, and then we were taking 1:14:27.600 --> 1:14:31.240 iPads out to the scene, and so that kept refreshing 1:14:31.560 --> 1:14:33.880 the show in a way because we had new technology 1:14:33.960 --> 1:14:34.960 that moved us forward. 1:14:35.040 --> 1:14:39.920 But technology is a lot quicker. You get responses more quickly. 1:14:40.400 --> 1:14:43.280 You see this in Rooftop Too, where Stabler finds this 1:14:43.640 --> 1:14:45.720 remembers this line from an old case and he's like, 1:14:45.760 --> 1:14:48.360 this is from before we were really doing DNA testing. 1:14:48.560 --> 1:14:50.880 So and now it's like a few years later and 1:14:50.920 --> 1:14:52.920 it's like, Okay, let's put the DNA in the system. 1:14:53.080 --> 1:14:55.960 So interesting. Yeah, you're right, it is a little bit 1:14:56.040 --> 1:14:59.639 not like a time capsule, but yeah, like a historical document. 1:15:00.680 --> 1:15:03.800 Yeah, a document. Yeah. 1:15:04.080 --> 1:15:07.440 So did you ever have to change an episode last minute? 1:15:08.240 --> 1:15:10.400 Before I came on the show, there was an episode 1:15:10.400 --> 1:15:14.280 that I'll only remember. It was called Taken and Rishka 1:15:14.320 --> 1:15:16.720 has like a pacifier around her neck and a lot 1:15:16.720 --> 1:15:17.120 of glitter. 1:15:18.040 --> 1:15:19.920 Oh yeah, she's like in a raver over that. 1:15:20.360 --> 1:15:25.160 So so the show turned out to be like twelve 1:15:25.160 --> 1:15:27.880 minutes too short. It was just like and it was 1:15:29.080 --> 1:15:31.920 kind of in this infraim period where there was no showrunner, 1:15:31.920 --> 1:15:34.280 and then I came on and we had to figure 1:15:34.280 --> 1:15:36.880 out how we couldn't just throw it out and so 1:15:37.479 --> 1:15:40.080 and you know, Dick has Dick Wolf has sort of 1:15:40.400 --> 1:15:43.320 very specific ideas of how he wants things to go, 1:15:43.439 --> 1:15:49.320 like no flashbacks, no, you know, speaking directly into the camera, 1:15:49.439 --> 1:15:51.920 all of these rules. I said, well, you know, I 1:15:51.960 --> 1:15:55.240 have an idea. He goes, do whatever you want. So 1:15:56.320 --> 1:16:01.000 we shot for literally around the clock all night long 1:16:01.080 --> 1:16:03.320 to get it done. And we have these it's the 1:16:03.320 --> 1:16:05.639 only time I think you'll see it. We have these 1:16:05.720 --> 1:16:11.160 interviews with each of our characters, Marishka, Benson, Stabler, Munch, 1:16:11.640 --> 1:16:18.400 Finn Craigan and they're like being interviewed. It's all interwoven 1:16:18.880 --> 1:16:23.559 into the show because we didn't have the money to 1:16:23.640 --> 1:16:26.760 go back out and shoot, reshoot, you know, and start over. 1:16:26.840 --> 1:16:30.559 Of course it's really expensive, so we just did these 1:16:30.640 --> 1:16:34.639 like strange talking to the camera interviews. 1:16:34.680 --> 1:16:37.599 It weren't it was it was Dick Mattens. 1:16:37.680 --> 1:16:41.599 No, he was like, oh that's great. It's like it's like, 1:16:41.960 --> 1:16:43.360 whatever it takes, do it. 1:16:44.960 --> 1:16:48.760 So what was the most controversial ending to an episode? 1:16:49.600 --> 1:16:52.000 The one with Shannon Sossiman and Billy Campbell. 1:16:53.040 --> 1:16:54.760 Oh, actually that was. 1:16:56.320 --> 1:17:00.960 Insane and it was like we find the defendant and 1:17:00.960 --> 1:17:04.000 then people are did something happened in my television? 1:17:04.680 --> 1:17:06.920 I know, you're like, my DV hour is broken? 1:17:07.200 --> 1:17:10.160 And is no, you got to figure out what you 1:17:10.240 --> 1:17:11.120 think this is why? 1:17:11.600 --> 1:17:15.479 You know this is obviously before me too, But it 1:17:15.560 --> 1:17:18.040 was you know, we wrote it so. 1:17:17.920 --> 1:17:22.000 That both you you would believe or disbelieve. 1:17:21.479 --> 1:17:25.960 Both of them, right, So that really pissed off a 1:17:26.000 --> 1:17:26.559 lot of people. 1:17:27.479 --> 1:17:29.880 I think just because you have us years and years 1:17:29.920 --> 1:17:32.400 with everything getting wrapped up in a bow on these episodes, 1:17:32.439 --> 1:17:34.320 even if it's a bad bow, Like even if you're 1:17:34.360 --> 1:17:36.439 like Oh my god, that's horrific or that's not what 1:17:36.479 --> 1:17:38.799 I wanted to happen, Like you always know what happens, 1:17:38.800 --> 1:17:40.680 and that's the first episode where you're like, I have 1:17:40.720 --> 1:17:41.760 to think for myself. 1:17:41.960 --> 1:17:42.120 No. 1:17:42.760 --> 1:17:45.439 Yeah, and it's like so maybe I'll maybe they'll come 1:17:45.479 --> 1:17:49.839 back and Billy Camp will be uh, you know, arrested 1:17:49.880 --> 1:17:52.680 again for doing the same thing, and you'll figure it out. 1:17:52.760 --> 1:17:55.360 You could actually kind of go back to that story 1:17:56.000 --> 1:17:58.920 and see what happened and whether or not he had 1:17:58.960 --> 1:18:04.320 ether there, you know, people coming out and saying that 1:18:04.400 --> 1:18:05.799 he had done something similar. 1:18:06.120 --> 1:18:09.120 You could do that right, and then you could give 1:18:09.280 --> 1:18:10.479 you could tie a boat on it. 1:18:11.680 --> 1:18:14.240 Are there any episodes you look back on and you're like, 1:18:14.880 --> 1:18:18.000 with now societal norms like changing that you kind of 1:18:18.040 --> 1:18:20.600 cringe out or you wish you could change or adapt. 1:18:22.280 --> 1:18:23.280 That's an audience question. 1:18:23.360 --> 1:18:27.160 Yeah, not really, I mean because some of its time. 1:18:27.240 --> 1:18:30.640 And so you know when we talked about should we 1:18:30.680 --> 1:18:33.960 have made Stabler as aggressive though that was his character, 1:18:36.360 --> 1:18:40.720 So that came up a lot during you know, the 1:18:40.760 --> 1:18:44.599 whole conversation about police and so that was something that 1:18:44.840 --> 1:18:47.519 you know, they're thinking about a lot on Blown Over 1:18:47.680 --> 1:18:50.960 Organized Chrome Now and they're actually addressing that with his character. 1:18:51.080 --> 1:18:55.800 So so there's that. But in terms of something that feels, 1:18:56.320 --> 1:18:58.200 you know, I think I would do more sort of 1:18:58.280 --> 1:19:04.479 rooftop like show was probably more exploration of the racial bias, 1:19:04.640 --> 1:19:11.200 racial inequities, if you know, we had we had on 1:19:11.240 --> 1:19:15.439 our show more female writers than male writers for most 1:19:15.479 --> 1:19:16.920 of the seasons. 1:19:16.479 --> 1:19:17.880 That I ran the show. 1:19:18.760 --> 1:19:21.360 So I think that that was a really that perspective 1:19:22.240 --> 1:19:24.280 was really welcome and a good thing. 1:19:24.880 --> 1:19:26.280 And you know, we had. 1:19:28.280 --> 1:19:32.080 African American writer, female writer Julia McCrary who wrote the 1:19:32.080 --> 1:19:36.639 most intense episodes. She wrote the ludicrous episodes and all 1:19:36.680 --> 1:19:41.760 of the really intense shows. You know, the writers had 1:19:41.880 --> 1:19:45.000 kind of specialties of intensity or more humor, or. 1:19:44.960 --> 1:19:47.240 More sort of. 1:19:46.840 --> 1:19:50.599 Family kind of things, So I would assign things different 1:19:50.680 --> 1:19:55.840 stories based on that the writer's personalities often as well. 1:19:57.240 --> 1:19:59.880 Have you ever been sued or had any legal action 1:20:00.160 --> 1:20:03.360 threatened from like a ripped from the headline situation where 1:20:03.439 --> 1:20:07.519 someone came after you, guys, or was mad not you, 1:20:07.600 --> 1:20:08.040 Neil Bear? 1:20:08.120 --> 1:20:08.960 Obviously No. 1:20:11.120 --> 1:20:15.160 We had one incident that I'll say is that it 1:20:15.240 --> 1:20:16.400 had to do with the show. 1:20:16.640 --> 1:20:17.120 The view. 1:20:17.920 --> 1:20:21.880 Okay, oh okay, I'm like writing this down to do 1:20:21.920 --> 1:20:23.280 you know an episode this is. 1:20:24.040 --> 1:20:26.559 Okay, We'll leave it at that. A lot of our 1:20:26.680 --> 1:20:29.960 questions have to do with everybody being obsessed with Obviously, 1:20:29.960 --> 1:20:33.240 Benson and Stable are getting back together. The tension between 1:20:33.280 --> 1:20:35.120 them is back in the news kind of because of 1:20:35.920 --> 1:20:38.759 organized crime, and you know now his wife has passed 1:20:38.760 --> 1:20:39.360 and everything. 1:20:40.600 --> 1:20:43.240 In your twelve years on the show or eleven years 1:20:43.280 --> 1:20:45.640 on the show, were you ever tempted to make an 1:20:45.640 --> 1:20:48.200 Olivia sorry Benson Stabler romance happen. 1:20:48.800 --> 1:20:53.000 No, but I gave everybody what they wanted when we 1:20:53.080 --> 1:20:54.080 put Mush in. 1:20:54.080 --> 1:20:59.919 Her bron pennies and Belonging in his underwear, very famous 1:21:00.479 --> 1:21:06.880 hide the monkey in the ball wildlife, So that was 1:21:06.960 --> 1:21:11.320 like what everybody wanted wildlife. Yes, everybody wanted to happen, 1:21:11.360 --> 1:21:13.639 So that was purposely written that way. 1:21:14.960 --> 1:21:17.160 There's another question from a listener that I actually never 1:21:17.160 --> 1:21:19.800 thought of it that I wonder if you have any 1:21:20.240 --> 1:21:23.679 info on, Like somebody asked, what precautions are taken when 1:21:23.760 --> 1:21:27.400 child actors have to do like these intense scenes about abuse. 1:21:28.320 --> 1:21:29.439 It's a really good question. 1:21:30.720 --> 1:21:33.559 One of another favorite episode is the one I think 1:21:33.560 --> 1:21:36.360 this has been listed like in the top ten SPUs 1:21:37.000 --> 1:21:39.639 and Judy wrote this one. This is about the girl 1:21:40.200 --> 1:21:43.480 thinks with Aiden Quinn, phenomenal actor place. 1:21:43.560 --> 1:21:46.920 Oh yes, phenomenal, the girl that has the perfect pitch. 1:21:47.040 --> 1:21:48.320 She has Williams syndrome. 1:21:48.600 --> 1:21:52.920 Yeah, yeah, so that's you know, she has a genetic 1:21:53.360 --> 1:21:56.400 syndrome where she kind of repeats what she hears. 1:21:56.520 --> 1:21:57.799 And it was really interesting. 1:21:58.240 --> 1:22:01.280 I think there's a lot of conversation with the director 1:22:01.479 --> 1:22:03.800 and the parents because the parents are on the set 1:22:04.000 --> 1:22:08.400 and protecting I know. I remember we were doing a 1:22:08.439 --> 1:22:12.559 scene on the Er with Michael Michelle who did that. 1:22:12.840 --> 1:22:14.200 Another is the. 1:22:14.160 --> 1:22:18.599 Judmcreating another the one where Blair Underwood what burns her? 1:22:20.280 --> 1:22:24.160 Eric Lasaul directed that episode. Michael was on Er and 1:22:24.360 --> 1:22:27.280 I remember a little girl asking her some question about 1:22:27.760 --> 1:22:31.639 something about because she has she somebody's talking about something sexual. 1:22:31.680 --> 1:22:33.360 And I remember Michael Michelle. 1:22:33.120 --> 1:22:36.120 Saying, honey, you're gonna have to ask your mother about that. 1:22:35.640 --> 1:22:39.320 But that but for a scene like an. 1:22:39.280 --> 1:22:46.639 SBU, we've had, you know, we've had kids parents say 1:22:46.760 --> 1:22:49.519 they won't let their kids do scenes, which is their 1:22:49.840 --> 1:22:51.840 right to do, and we want to make sure that 1:22:51.840 --> 1:22:55.679 the kids feel comfortable and all of that. So there's 1:22:55.720 --> 1:22:59.280 a lot of conversation with the director particularly and the 1:22:59.400 --> 1:23:01.880 parents because parents are on the set and you know, 1:23:01.920 --> 1:23:05.639 the kid, she's work only a small amount. And also 1:23:06.000 --> 1:23:09.040 we have to be very careful of what we do 1:23:09.840 --> 1:23:13.519 so that we don't traumatize the kid. So right, So 1:23:13.920 --> 1:23:20.400 oftentimes we'll cast someone who is older than that age 1:23:21.160 --> 1:23:24.880 as another way around that, because we really it's not 1:23:25.000 --> 1:23:28.559 about like getting the best performance from some seven year old. 1:23:28.600 --> 1:23:30.920 It's like maybe we need to have somebody who's older. 1:23:31.120 --> 1:23:33.040 Maybe we have to write it a little bit differently 1:23:33.680 --> 1:23:36.200 so that it's not traumatizing to the kid. 1:23:36.240 --> 1:23:37.000 We don't want to do that. 1:23:37.760 --> 1:23:39.800 Well, a new You told us last time we spoke 1:23:39.840 --> 1:23:42.080 to you that you know, a lot of the episodes 1:23:42.120 --> 1:23:43.920 came from you know, you reading sort of like a 1:23:43.960 --> 1:23:46.280 medical journal or an article about some. 1:23:46.240 --> 1:23:49.200 New thing and you know, finding out about cases. 1:23:49.400 --> 1:23:52.000 So has there been anything that you've read about since 1:23:52.040 --> 1:23:53.840 you left the show that you're like, this would make 1:23:53.880 --> 1:23:54.680 a great best for you. 1:23:55.160 --> 1:23:55.360 Yeah. 1:23:55.400 --> 1:23:58.240 And I actually told Peter Jenkeski and I don't know 1:23:58.280 --> 1:24:00.720 you'll know if they did this or not, but I 1:24:00.800 --> 1:24:06.839 heard about a rapist who was suing to have custody 1:24:06.960 --> 1:24:08.400 drunk custody of the child. 1:24:08.680 --> 1:24:10.680 Yes, they did do that. 1:24:11.160 --> 1:24:11.360 Yeah. 1:24:11.400 --> 1:24:12.320 And I called Peter and. 1:24:12.280 --> 1:24:14.559 I said, you got to do this because I can't 1:24:14.560 --> 1:24:17.120 believe we didn't do this. But and now they've passed 1:24:17.160 --> 1:24:23.479 laws that you can't Yeah. Wow, Like whoa, It was like, 1:24:24.400 --> 1:24:29.360 that's so I certainly that was the one story that 1:24:29.479 --> 1:24:31.360 really got me like, oh my gosh, that would have 1:24:31.400 --> 1:24:35.280 made an incredible SVU. But I but I went to 1:24:35.280 --> 1:24:38.000 Peter and I called him, said, hey, you guys should 1:24:38.000 --> 1:24:39.280 do this, and here's the story. 1:24:39.040 --> 1:24:43.920 Iran, especially with like Benson's character, having her background that 1:24:44.000 --> 1:24:46.840 she has, Like, you know, if your father had wanted 1:24:47.120 --> 1:24:49.559 to sue for custody of you, would that appear exactly? 1:24:49.760 --> 1:24:53.559 So you could just see what, yeah, where that would go? 1:24:54.000 --> 1:24:54.120 Right? 1:24:54.200 --> 1:24:57.080 That would like, you know, an intense episode. 1:24:57.400 --> 1:24:59.840 I forgot. Do you still watch the show ever? Do 1:24:59.880 --> 1:25:01.280 you catch it here and there or not? 1:25:01.360 --> 1:25:04.800 Really? No, I haven't. I decided when I left ER. 1:25:05.080 --> 1:25:08.080 I did ER the first seven years and I thought, 1:25:08.400 --> 1:25:12.599 you know, it was so wonderful. I got to work 1:25:12.640 --> 1:25:17.839 with amazing actors and the same with SVU for eleven 1:25:18.400 --> 1:25:22.439 and so I just wish from the best, but I just. 1:25:22.479 --> 1:25:23.960 Move on to another show. 1:25:24.080 --> 1:25:26.839 So then I did a gift A man with Patrick Wilson, 1:25:26.840 --> 1:25:28.080 but that was only on for years. 1:25:28.080 --> 1:25:29.439 There's nothing else to watch it. 1:25:29.640 --> 1:25:32.160 And I did Under the Dome and that was three 1:25:32.240 --> 1:25:35.760 years and done, so there's nothing else to watch. And 1:25:35.800 --> 1:25:37.920 then I did Designate It, but I did the end 1:25:37.960 --> 1:25:42.120 of Designated. So I did watch the first two years 1:25:42.160 --> 1:25:45.639 of Designated because I'd never been in a position where 1:25:46.280 --> 1:25:50.160 I was taking well, I take that back, Sbu. I 1:25:50.160 --> 1:25:52.839 did watch the first season. I had watched the pilot 1:25:52.880 --> 1:25:54.680 and a few of them because Murska had been on 1:25:54.920 --> 1:25:56.480 R and were very close. 1:25:56.600 --> 1:25:58.840 And so I wanted to see what was going on. 1:25:59.400 --> 1:26:01.320 But I didn't have any idea I was going to 1:26:01.320 --> 1:26:05.400 be on SVU, so I didn't watch all of season one. 1:26:05.760 --> 1:26:09.200 But seasons thirteen through twenty two are a mystery to you. 1:26:09.400 --> 1:26:11.080 Well, I wonder if we could even ask it, So, 1:26:11.680 --> 1:26:15.160 without seeing the show for this long, how would you like? 1:26:15.240 --> 1:26:17.080 Can you even answer? How would you end it? How 1:26:17.120 --> 1:26:18.679 do you see SVU atver ending? 1:26:19.479 --> 1:26:26.599 Well, I mean that's the obvious, though you know there. 1:26:26.439 --> 1:26:29.240 Has to be some twist I would imagine to get there, 1:26:29.840 --> 1:26:32.840 but it'd be interesting to bring as many people back 1:26:32.880 --> 1:26:34.960 as possible as well. 1:26:35.400 --> 1:26:38.760 So we were wondering has anyone ever been. Have you 1:26:38.760 --> 1:26:41.760 ever written a character off the show other than for 1:26:41.880 --> 1:26:44.200 contractual reasons, like you ever just been like we got 1:26:44.240 --> 1:26:45.320 to write this person off. 1:26:45.640 --> 1:26:49.640 Yeah, not for contractual reasons, but just for storytelling. So 1:26:49.880 --> 1:26:55.000 the answer would be I called the wonderful actor Christine Lottie. 1:26:55.920 --> 1:26:57.559 And I said, we have I love you, I have 1:26:57.560 --> 1:26:59.479 another episode for you. It's that great. 1:27:00.200 --> 1:27:02.800 And she was so good on the show, and I said, 1:27:03.320 --> 1:27:05.799 and we're going to do something that I think you've. 1:27:05.640 --> 1:27:09.120 Never done before as an actor. And she's like, uh. 1:27:08.960 --> 1:27:13.240 Oh, what is that, Christine? And she goes, You're going 1:27:13.280 --> 1:27:16.880 to kill me? And I said yes, and she's like, 1:27:16.960 --> 1:27:18.679 you know, and I said, I was kind of looking 1:27:18.720 --> 1:27:20.639 and thinking about all of your work and I don't 1:27:20.680 --> 1:27:24.240 recall you ever being killed. You've done tough stuff, you know, 1:27:24.439 --> 1:27:28.240 and beautiful, beautiful film she did called Housekeeping, which if 1:27:28.240 --> 1:27:30.479 you haven't seen, is amazing based on the. 1:27:32.400 --> 1:27:37.120 Novel. She's just incredibly good in it. And so I said, yeah, 1:27:37.200 --> 1:27:37.720 we're going to. 1:27:37.720 --> 1:27:39.960 Kill you because we have Debra messing on and this 1:27:40.080 --> 1:27:42.880 whole kind of thing going on, and we just want 1:27:42.920 --> 1:27:45.840 this like the emotionality of it, and you've had this 1:27:45.920 --> 1:27:49.439 kind of relationship with Benson that stirred up issues about 1:27:49.439 --> 1:27:54.479 her mother. So she has this intense emotionality with your character. 1:27:55.040 --> 1:27:58.680 So that was a character. And also Mike Doyle, it 1:27:58.760 --> 1:27:59.880 was like, yeah. 1:27:59.600 --> 1:28:01.479 You know, and then the New York Times did an 1:28:01.560 --> 1:28:05.040 article about how many times he'd been killed off on shows. 1:28:05.400 --> 1:28:07.639 And then I just saw him in this movie called 1:28:07.680 --> 1:28:10.519 The Invitation where he gets murdered pretty badly as well. 1:28:11.000 --> 1:28:11.880 I love that movie. 1:28:12.080 --> 1:28:15.080 You know that happens to Mike, but he's wonderful actor. 1:28:15.160 --> 1:28:16.960 So and Stucky. 1:28:18.080 --> 1:28:19.599 He's the most hated character. 1:28:19.760 --> 1:28:24.519 I mean, William Lewis obviously so scary, but people hate Stucky. 1:28:24.600 --> 1:28:28.680 Yeah, he really irks people. Yeah. 1:28:28.720 --> 1:28:31.360 Well you mentioned Deborah Messing, which you know like her 1:28:31.520 --> 1:28:34.559 and marishkar are really good friends. Are there any cases 1:28:34.600 --> 1:28:36.200 where one of the main actors is like, can we 1:28:36.280 --> 1:28:37.120 just have my friend on? 1:28:37.160 --> 1:28:38.160 Like I want Deborah on? 1:28:38.640 --> 1:28:44.120 Yeah? Cool, Maria Hello? Oh whoa Yeah, fantastic episode. Oh 1:28:44.200 --> 1:28:45.240 my god, with the guy. 1:28:45.520 --> 1:28:48.360 With Calvin, that whole that was how we first started 1:28:48.400 --> 1:28:49.879 the Benson motherhood journey. 1:28:50.280 --> 1:28:53.200 And the guy who played her horrible father was from 1:28:53.280 --> 1:28:54.240 Full Metal Jacket. 1:28:54.479 --> 1:28:56.639 He was the sergeant in Full Metal Jacket. 1:28:56.920 --> 1:29:00.439 So Maria and mursh are very very close friends, and 1:29:00.479 --> 1:29:03.360 so we said, we got to get Maria on and 1:29:03.439 --> 1:29:05.760 do something really intense, and so we did. 1:29:06.360 --> 1:29:10.000 Is right, what are you working on now before we 1:29:10.120 --> 1:29:10.519 all go? 1:29:12.040 --> 1:29:13.559 I have a show that's going to be on, but 1:29:13.640 --> 1:29:15.000 I can't say what it is. 1:29:15.439 --> 1:29:17.040 Okay, okay, it's going to be on. 1:29:18.360 --> 1:29:20.160 I can't even say it's going to be on. I 1:29:20.160 --> 1:29:23.000 have an unscripted show that's going to be on in 1:29:23.040 --> 1:29:25.840 the fall. Really, so well, would you talk about it 1:29:25.880 --> 1:29:27.679 and it's on? It's going to be fun. 1:29:28.720 --> 1:29:30.880 I can't come back on when you're doing. You do 1:29:30.960 --> 1:29:38.320 that and tell us about it, and I would love it. Wow. 1:29:38.600 --> 1:29:41.679 Neil Bear, the legend, the man the meth, the legend 1:29:41.680 --> 1:29:46.680 that was so great, the Barriers of great Scoop. Yes, always, 1:29:46.840 --> 1:29:49.200 he always has great info for us. 1:29:49.280 --> 1:29:51.080 Just to bragge all of you, we did get a 1:29:51.120 --> 1:29:53.920 few off the record statements from him so. 1:29:53.800 --> 1:29:55.920 That we weren't allowed to put on the pod. Unfortunately 1:29:55.960 --> 1:30:00.920 we can't share, but know that he spilled some tea maybe. 1:30:01.320 --> 1:30:03.360 And if you guys are interested, we have one little 1:30:03.360 --> 1:30:05.760 extra tidbit on our Instagram. If you're not following us 1:30:05.760 --> 1:30:07.840 on Instagram, get over to That's messed Up pod on 1:30:07.880 --> 1:30:11.360 Instagram so that you can hear one last piece of 1:30:11.360 --> 1:30:14.400 scoop from Neil. But let's jump into our post mortem 1:30:14.439 --> 1:30:18.600 for Rooftop. What did we learn? What a dark episode? 1:30:18.720 --> 1:30:21.600 I mean, if a man tells you that you can dialogue, 1:30:21.680 --> 1:30:23.280 now it's time to walk out the door. 1:30:24.080 --> 1:30:25.160 It's time to leave. 1:30:25.479 --> 1:30:27.800 I was gonna say, if you really need evidence in 1:30:27.840 --> 1:30:31.120 a case, just hop on over and bite somebody. 1:30:31.520 --> 1:30:36.400 Yeah, you know, get their skin in your teeth. Yeah. 1:30:36.439 --> 1:30:38.800 From now on, now we know how to get DNA, Like, 1:30:38.960 --> 1:30:41.519 start a fight, get their DNA all over you, and 1:30:41.560 --> 1:30:44.400 go straight to a medical examiner. 1:30:44.680 --> 1:30:45.280 And I guess. 1:30:45.360 --> 1:30:48.240 Also, another thing we've learned is that if you don't 1:30:48.240 --> 1:30:50.080 want your DNA taken, you can just say you're a 1:30:50.120 --> 1:30:51.280 Jehovah's witness. 1:30:51.600 --> 1:30:54.080 Yep, that's you know, a lot of DNA evidence, I 1:30:54.120 --> 1:30:57.719 mean lessons. Yeah, why do I seem like I feel 1:30:57.720 --> 1:31:03.120 like I'm drunk but I'm not. I don't know. Also, 1:31:03.280 --> 1:31:07.160 racism sucks. Police suck, Yeah, suck. 1:31:07.520 --> 1:31:12.559 The government sucks. So that's something I'll say. 1:31:12.720 --> 1:31:15.280 It does feel like after watching this episode, though, it does, 1:31:15.439 --> 1:31:17.599 it does feel like we've come like a long way 1:31:17.640 --> 1:31:20.439 in terms of like stigma against AIDS. You know, like 1:31:20.720 --> 1:31:22.760 I feel like now more people accept that AIDS is 1:31:22.800 --> 1:31:24.600 not a death sentence. It's not like the kind of 1:31:24.600 --> 1:31:27.439 thing where you like shun people that have it. I mean, 1:31:27.479 --> 1:31:30.120 I have friends with HIV. Like, it's just not a 1:31:30.200 --> 1:31:33.280 thing that you need to you know, shy away from 1:31:33.360 --> 1:31:35.839 talking about or you know, no, it's. 1:31:35.720 --> 1:31:38.479 Really a john. I mean, most of this country is 1:31:38.479 --> 1:31:42.120 an embarrassment stain. But the way this country and Reagan 1:31:42.160 --> 1:31:44.120 and everyone handled. 1:31:43.640 --> 1:31:46.880 AIDS is so fucked up. 1:31:47.280 --> 1:31:50.000 Yeah, and it's really not even talked about how much 1:31:50.000 --> 1:31:52.040 of a fuck up that was, and how many people 1:31:52.840 --> 1:31:56.120 we like friendly but Woods talks about this and more. 1:31:55.960 --> 1:31:57.439 People that are smarter and no more. 1:31:57.520 --> 1:32:00.000 But it's like we truly lost the generation of people 1:32:00.320 --> 1:32:03.639 mm hmm. And that's what's happening now where people are like, ah, fuck, 1:32:04.400 --> 1:32:06.920 there's not enough job people want to sit on unemployment. 1:32:07.200 --> 1:32:09.760 Why is there a shortage of employees? And it's like 1:32:10.280 --> 1:32:12.200 I didn't think about this, but the Internet told me 1:32:12.720 --> 1:32:16.160 six hundred thousand people died gonna create some shortages, you 1:32:16.200 --> 1:32:16.760 know what I mean. 1:32:16.920 --> 1:32:19.439 Like people are so selfish. 1:32:18.840 --> 1:32:21.240 And self centered that it's like we haven't even thought about, 1:32:21.280 --> 1:32:24.080 like the reason there might be a shortage of certain 1:32:24.200 --> 1:32:28.880 jobs is because people fucking died. Yeah, you know, we 1:32:29.040 --> 1:32:32.760 just ignore it and like the whole aids like so 1:32:32.760 --> 1:32:38.080 so many talented, incredible people died and it's fucked up. 1:32:38.080 --> 1:32:41.120 It's like the Holocaust. It's like we lost generations of people. 1:32:41.479 --> 1:32:44.160 Yeah, and I just speaking of the Emmys, what we 1:32:44.160 --> 1:32:47.920 were talking about earlier, very nominated the show pose like 1:32:48.000 --> 1:32:50.280 they really jump dive into that and you really get 1:32:50.280 --> 1:32:52.519 a sense of like how devastating it was in the 1:32:52.560 --> 1:32:53.519 eighties and nineties. 1:32:53.640 --> 1:32:56.360 Like yeah, and then everyone is like shading you. Doctors 1:32:56.400 --> 1:32:58.519 probably don't want to work on you, No whe understands it. 1:32:58.560 --> 1:33:02.559 You're treated like shit. It's it's just like devastating. You're 1:33:02.600 --> 1:33:06.200 like dying of a disease and no one cares, and 1:33:06.200 --> 1:33:08.040 then they blame you for it and think you're like 1:33:08.240 --> 1:33:09.599 a demon because you have it. 1:33:10.280 --> 1:33:12.320 Yeah. I don't know if that's what I got from 1:33:12.320 --> 1:33:13.040 this episode. 1:33:14.880 --> 1:33:17.320 No, I was just noticing that, like, you know, that 1:33:17.439 --> 1:33:20.160 episode just seems like a little bit like dated almost 1:33:20.240 --> 1:33:22.920 in the way that they like talk about HIV and like, 1:33:23.000 --> 1:33:25.599 you know, what we learned from this Nashan Williams case 1:33:25.640 --> 1:33:28.559 and everything. It's just it's like, it feels like we've 1:33:28.680 --> 1:33:32.559 made some strides. I don't think it's totally non discriminated against, 1:33:32.560 --> 1:33:34.280 but you know, I think we've made some strides. 1:33:35.640 --> 1:33:35.840 Well. 1:33:35.840 --> 1:33:38.639 That leads us kind of perfectly right into what would 1:33:38.680 --> 1:33:39.320 Sister Peg do? 1:33:39.439 --> 1:33:40.040 This week? 1:33:40.240 --> 1:33:43.160 This is our weekly segment where we highlight an institution 1:33:43.400 --> 1:33:46.439 or an organization that you can get more information from 1:33:46.600 --> 1:33:51.360 or donate to. And today we are highlighting the Black 1:33:51.400 --> 1:33:57.040 AIDS Institute. It's Blackaids dot Org and the Black Aids Institute. 1:33:57.120 --> 1:33:58.559 They also go by Bai So. 1:33:58.640 --> 1:34:01.479 Bai's mission is to stop the AIDS epidemic in black 1:34:01.479 --> 1:34:05.000 communities by engaging and mobilizing Black institutions and individuals to 1:34:05.000 --> 1:34:09.400 confront HIV. SO and another what was Sister Peg resource? 1:34:09.479 --> 1:34:12.360 We have two for for you this week. There is 1:34:12.439 --> 1:34:14.160 a book if you're interested in learning more about the 1:34:14.200 --> 1:34:16.880 Nashaun Williams case. There is a book called Notorious HIV 1:34:17.120 --> 1:34:21.320 The Media Spectacle of Nashaun Williams by Thomas Chevery and 1:34:21.360 --> 1:34:25.280 that is available wherever books are sold, mostly Amazon, if 1:34:25.320 --> 1:34:28.599 you like and if you're interested in learning more about 1:34:28.600 --> 1:34:29.839 the Nashaw Williams case. 1:34:30.040 --> 1:34:30.800 And join us. 1:34:30.880 --> 1:34:34.320 Next week, we will be covering the episode Peak That's 1:34:34.479 --> 1:34:42.840 p i q u e Wild Season two, Episode twenty Hulu, Peacock, 1:34:43.479 --> 1:34:48.360 the Library, all that Jazz. So enjoy watching, do your 1:34:48.360 --> 1:34:50.200 homework and we'll see you next week. 1:34:50.680 --> 1:35:01.400 Bye bye. That's Messed Up is an Exactly Right production. 1:35:01.640 --> 1:35:03.519 If you have compliments you'd like to give us or 1:35:03.560 --> 1:35:05.719 episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email 1:35:05.760 --> 1:35:08.200 at That's Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com. 1:35:08.240 --> 1:35:10.920 Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod 1:35:11.000 --> 1:35:13.599 and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us 1:35:13.600 --> 1:35:15.760 personally at Karaklank. 1:35:15.280 --> 1:35:16.360 And at glitter Cheese. 1:35:16.720 --> 1:35:19.439 As always, please see our show notes for sources and 1:35:19.520 --> 1:35:20.200 more information. 1:35:20.560 --> 1:35:25.240 Thank you so much to SBU superfan and our incredible producer, 1:35:25.439 --> 1:35:27.000 Hannah Kyle Kraton. 1:35:26.840 --> 1:35:29.919 And to our sound engineer and personal hero Anali Snilson, 1:35:30.080 --> 1:35:30.519 and to. 1:35:30.560 --> 1:35:34.120 Henry Kaperski for our theme song, to Carly Jean Andrews 1:35:34.120 --> 1:35:34.920 for our artwork. 1:35:35.160 --> 1:35:39.439 Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, 1:35:39.479 --> 1:35:41.200 and everybody at Exactly Right Media. 1:35:41.320 --> 1:35:43.639 Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on. 1:35:43.640 --> 1:35:47.640 Apple Podcasts, Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. 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