1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: On this episode of the News World. During an interrogation in Afghanistan, 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: when asked how long the jahadis intended to fight, a 3 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: Taliban commander uttered the words, if it takes a thousand years. 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: This chilling statement illustrates both how terrorists at this level 5 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: operate and the generational approach they take when it comes 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: to bringing destruction to the world. The West is facing 7 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: a determined enemy with a fundamentally different worldview. In his 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: new book, If it Takes a Thousand Years From Al 9 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: Khayeda to Hamas, how the Jahadas think and how to 10 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 1: defeat them, Former Army Captain Jesse Petrilla provides unique insight 11 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: into the Jahada's mind, featuring interviews with Taliban and Al 12 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: Khalida members just after their capture, interviews with international journalists 13 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: and professors, warnings from Europelo politicians, as well as experiences 14 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: from his travels throughout the London world. I am really 15 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: pleased to welcome my guest, Former Army Captain Jesse Patrolla. 16 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: He served as a civilian advisor to the US Department 17 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: of State and he was a liaison officer in the 18 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 1: Army to the Afghan Secret Police, facilitating the interrogations. However, 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: four hundred captured Taliban and Al Kaeda members. Jesse, Welcome 20 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: and thank you for joining me on neutral. 21 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, mister speaker. 22 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: Let's start with your own career. Talk about when you 23 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: joined the army and worked your way up to captain. 24 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 3: Sure, my interest in the jihadist movement really started after 25 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 3: September eleventh. I turned eighteen actually that year, just a 26 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 3: few months prior to the attacks, and so my entire 27 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 3: adult life and my generation really was shaped by that moment. 28 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 3: We really felt that there was a real threat out 29 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 3: there and very few people, I should say, understood the threat. 30 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 3: And so I embarked on a journey to research the 31 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 3: mindset of our enemies and who would do such a thing, 32 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 3: and spent a decade prior to going to Afghanistan in 33 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 3: twenty twelve. It was really the culmination of a decade 34 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 3: of research on the mindset of our enemies that really 35 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 3: came together there where I joined the military after farting around. 36 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 2: For several years. 37 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 3: I mean, most kids are pretty lost, and I was 38 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 3: no exception really what I was given that opportunity. I 39 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 3: was at the detention facility in Parwan there which was 40 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,079 Speaker 3: where we kept several thousand of the highest level of Taliban, 41 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 3: al Qaeda and other terrorist detainees. As I mentioned, I 42 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 3: had been researching this previously, so I had this list 43 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 3: of questions. I actually already wrote most of the book, 44 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 3: or so I thought on the subject, and I went 45 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 3: into the cells. I had all access badge. I took 46 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 3: full advantage of it, sat down with senior Taliban members 47 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 3: and said. 48 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 2: Hey, what makes you tick? Why do you do this? 49 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 2: How did you get started. 50 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 3: I would go back to my shipping container home and 51 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 3: write down everything I learned that day, so it was 52 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 3: very firsthand. 53 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 2: I used their words. 54 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 3: The book is filled with first hand accounts of how 55 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 3: the Taliban, how the Jihatis in general, think, and how 56 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 3: they tick. The more that I would learn, the more 57 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 3: eye opening it would be, because it's just such a 58 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,839 Speaker 3: fundamentally different mindset than what people in the West are 59 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 3: used to. It's a very long term thinking. Those words 60 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 3: the title of the book, if it takes a thousand years, 61 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 3: were told to me by a captured Taliban commander where 62 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 3: I asked him. I said, hey, look, we've got you caught. 63 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 3: How long are you going to keep fighting us? And 64 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 3: he said you have me in a cage, but my 65 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 3: children will fight you, and their children will fight you. 66 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 3: If it takes a thousand years, we will win. I 67 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 3: would say the number one if I had to summarize 68 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 3: how they operate, That sums it up. They fight these 69 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 3: generational wars, whereas Americans and those in the West typically 70 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 3: it's rare to even get us to think a couple 71 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 3: years out, let alone a thousand years. Americans typically think 72 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 3: two to four years at a time at most, because 73 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 3: that's our re election cycle. So our politicians are looking 74 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 3: at their next election and thinking, Okay, what can I 75 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 3: do for the next two to four years and leave 76 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 3: a legacy and get re elected. Whereas our enemies don't 77 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 3: think like that. They just focus on the next generation. 78 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 3: And that's where we've got to change our mind. 79 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: Even though they're determined to defeat us. At a personality level, 80 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: you make the point that they're very different from say 81 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: prisoners you'd find in an American prison. Their interpersonal attitude, 82 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: their skills are very very different. What was it like 83 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: talking to them directly? 84 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 3: That was one of the biggest surprises, if not the biggest, 85 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 3: participating in these interrogations, and there were over four hundred 86 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 3: of them that I sat in on that I was 87 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 3: directly talking to these folks. 88 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 2: You would go in there and they would say, hello, 89 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 2: mister Jesse, how are you? 90 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 3: Just very genuinely warm seeming. And the takeaway from that 91 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 3: that I got was it really isn't personal. 92 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: They don't want you dead, they don't want me dead. 93 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 3: They want all of us to submit or die. It's 94 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:32,119 Speaker 3: a much more macro, longer term thinking. They're really looking 95 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 3: at our kids, their kids as well. They're trying to 96 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 3: indoctrinate and get to the next generation. There's just this 97 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 3: slow chipping away strategy. If you go to San Quentin 98 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 3: or one of the other prisons that we've got in America. 99 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 3: I mean, these are tough folks that don't have the 100 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 3: best inner personal skills. But it was very scary and 101 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 3: to a person that's untrained, they would think that this 102 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 3: is legitimate. Whereas these people, they'd easily have given the 103 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 3: opportunity to just slit your throat without even thinking about it. 104 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 3: I mean, they don't. I don't respect life like we do. 105 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 3: It's a completely different mindset. I'll give you a couple examples. 106 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 3: One of the Taliban commanders that I talked to the 107 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 3: way that it works. 108 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: You're not pouring water over their ends. 109 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 3: Saying tell us what you know like in the movies, 110 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 3: you're drinking tea with them. You're their friend. In fact, 111 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 3: the first chapter of the book is called Tea with 112 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 3: the Taliban. And one of the guys that I was 113 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 3: talking to you start out, you say, hey, tell me 114 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,679 Speaker 3: about your family. And he said, just very nonchalantly, he said, 115 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,559 Speaker 3: I have nine kids. I had ten, but my daughter 116 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,679 Speaker 3: dishonored the family. So I killed her, just like taking 117 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 3: out the trash, just a normal everyday thing. 118 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: And what was scary about that? 119 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 3: It was so cold how he said it, just so nonchalantly. 120 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 3: And I would hear similar stuff again and again, and 121 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 3: it goes so much deeper than just one individual action. 122 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 3: It's a cultural thing. If he had not killed his daughter, 123 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 3: his life might be in danger in that culture, where 124 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 3: his friends and family would say, what's wrong with you? 125 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 3: Why didn't you kill your daughter? She dishonored the family? 126 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,239 Speaker 3: Are you without honor? And you can see that even 127 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 3: played out in the West. There was the case in 128 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 3: Texas of Yaser Sayad, who was on America's Most Wanted 129 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 3: If you recall that that was about ten or fifteen 130 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 3: years ago. 131 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:12,679 Speaker 2: He made the most wanted list. 132 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 3: That was the taxi driver that killed his two daughters, 133 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 3: Sarah and Amina Sayad. And he was on the run 134 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 3: for over a decade. And what happened when they finally 135 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 3: caught him, it was just because a neighbor saw him 136 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 3: over the fence. He was essentially living out in the open. 137 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 3: They arrested and convicted his own son, his brother, and 138 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 3: there were other members of the community that had helped 139 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 3: him along the way, and it just shows that they 140 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 3: thought he did the right thing. He murdered his two 141 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 3: daughters because they had non Muslim boyfriends. They refused to. 142 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 2: Wear a he job. It was a very clear honor killing. 143 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 3: And so this goes so much deeper than just a 144 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 3: criminal element. It really is a cultural element. These are 145 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 3: fundamentally different cultures that jihad has come from. Another example 146 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 3: I'll give in Afghanistan, there's a tribe called the Neuri 147 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 3: standing to be the equivalent of a city council member 148 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 3: in a Nuristani tribe, there. 149 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 2: Are three prerequisites. 150 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 3: You have to be a good orator, and you have 151 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 3: to host the entire village at a banquet ten times, 152 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 3: all right, and you have to kill five rival tribe members. 153 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 3: I mean, I was a city council member in another 154 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 3: life in southern California, and I'm glad I didn't have 155 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 3: to murder five people in the town next door to 156 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 3: get my seat. But this is a very normal thing 157 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 3: in that part of the world, and so it's very 158 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 3: much intertwined. It's not so much of a religious thing. 159 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 3: It's intertwined as well with tribalism because Islam grew out 160 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 3: of these tribes, and these tribes grew up for the 161 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 3: last fourteen hundred years, they evolved with Islam. It's very intertwined, 162 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 3: this tribal culture. So you see a lot of crossover 163 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 3: when it comes to respect for life or lack thereof. 164 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 3: There was a kid that was brought in that was 165 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 3: caught with a suicide vest and thankfully they disarmed it. 166 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 3: It was probably about fifteen years old, but a lot 167 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 3: of these guys, they don't know how old they are. 168 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 3: That's another thing. It's a very timeless society. And he 169 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 3: comes in, he looks very young. And I told the 170 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 3: Afghan that I was working with that was part of 171 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 3: the prosecution team. 172 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 2: Wow, this guy looks so young. 173 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 3: That's just so sad, like a teenager putting on a 174 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 3: suicide vest going to kill himself. He said, that's not 175 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 3: the youngest. And I said, what's the youngest suicide bomber 176 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 3: you've ever caught? He said six years old. And so 177 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 3: you think about it, it's like somebody strapped a bomb 178 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 3: on a six year old. And this is the ideology 179 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 3: that we're up against. And this is not somebody that 180 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 3: you can sit down and sign a peace treaty with. 181 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 3: It's not something it's not a government that you can 182 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 3: negotiate with and have them surrender and have a nice 183 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 3: ceremony and be done with it. The jihadis adhere to 184 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 3: this very sick belief that just does not value life. 185 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 3: It's an absolutely fundamentally different viewpoint than our own. 186 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: One of the things I found fascinating in your book, 187 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: you actually encountered detainees who had lived in the US, 188 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: some of whom had actually grown up in the US. 189 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: To what extent did they just sort of reject American 190 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: culture and revert what what's going on in their heads? 191 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 2: That was one of the scarier realizations or discoveries there. 192 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 3: One guy that I told him I needed him to 193 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 3: sign a document. I go up to him and I said, well, 194 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 3: I got to wait for a translator, and he says, 195 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 3: I don't need a translator, just very clearly, no accent. 196 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 3: And then I said, wait, you so you speak English? 197 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 3: He said yeah, I speak it fine. And where are 198 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 3: you from? 199 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 2: And he said, Ohio. 200 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 3: What would stop him from doing jihadis activity at them 201 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 3: all of America or something. I mean, it's really scary 202 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 3: and it shows that immigration reform we need common sense 203 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 3: policies that protect America from this. It's not so much 204 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 3: about defeating the jihatas it's about protecting what we've got. 205 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 3: And you have folks that come here. He came here 206 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 3: as a small kid. We've got to look at realistically, 207 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 3: where are their allegiances. It's very tricky. I mean, we 208 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:14,319 Speaker 3: haven't really dealt with this in the first couple hundred 209 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 3: years of our existence as a nation because it's intertwined 210 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 3: with a religion. But you can see where these people 211 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 3: are coming from and the cultures that are from there, 212 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 3: and unfortunately, there's this fallacy of cultural relativism, as I 213 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 3: call it, where people think that all cultures are equal, 214 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 3: and the reality is that cultures, like some of the 215 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 3: examples I just gave are certainly not equal to Western 216 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 3: Judeo Christian values that our nation is built upon, because 217 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 3: even if somebody isn't religious, if they grow up in 218 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 3: this culture, they are still adhering by our laws are 219 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 3: largely based off of Judeo Christian values that is our culture. 220 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 3: But this is just so counter and we can look 221 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 3: at Europe to see the problems that a more or 222 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 3: less open immigration system has created, and we need to 223 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 3: start addressing it. And thankfully this is starting to come out. 224 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 3: We need to look at what policies will force assimilation 225 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 3: that out of all of the solutions, that's the number one. 226 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 3: We need to find ways to promote patriotism in our schools, 227 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 3: to promote Jenao Christian values in our youth, because we're 228 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 3: failing this next generation. You have kids, and it's both 229 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 3: immigrant and natural born as well, children that do not 230 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: feel allegiance to our country. And it's not just the 231 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 3: Taliban fighter that decided as a teenager to go fight 232 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 3: in Afghanistan and leave Ohio. You have kids that are 233 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 3: born and raised here that have nothing to do with 234 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 3: those cultures that are marching with the queers for Palestine. 235 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 3: Banners and completely ignorant and misinformed. Over the last few decades, unfortunately, 236 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 3: the left has been attacking institutions that promote patriotism, that 237 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 3: promote assimilation. You have, like the Boy Scouts, for example, has. 238 00:12:58,160 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 2: Been completely neutered. 239 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 3: They're trying to take the Pledge of Allegiance out of schools, 240 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 3: all these different things, and then they filled the universities 241 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 3: with these whack job professors that are giving children a 242 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 3: terrible education. I think we have completely failed to educate 243 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 3: the next generation about our enemies. And that was no 244 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 3: more evident than when we saw the pro Hamas protests 245 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 3: on colleges. There was a survey that was actually done 246 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 3: that was reported by NBC, conducted by a group called 247 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 3: Generation Lab. It showed one out of eight college students 248 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 3: in the weeks after the Hamas attack outright supported it. 249 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 3: There was another survey they did a few months later 250 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,959 Speaker 3: that it had increased. It was one out of four 251 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 3: actually supported, one out of four on American college campuses. 252 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 3: And they just are completely ignorant to what kind of 253 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 3: people they're supporting. I mean, if they think that they 254 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 3: support women's rights or. 255 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 2: What have you. 256 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 3: I mean, they're very ignorant on the subject. So if 257 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 3: you're listening to this, you're probably already aware. But the 258 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 3: question I would ask the listeners to ask themselves is 259 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 3: are your children or grandchildren aware of the threats that 260 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 3: we are facing from not just the jihadist enemies, but 261 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 3: others as well. So, I mean, what's worse if we 262 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 3: have isolated terrorist attacks or a generation of children that 263 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 3: are turned into pro jihatas zombies that we see on 264 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 3: these campuses, that would open the doors for our enemies. 265 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 3: So I would recommend get them books on this subject, 266 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 3: talk to them. There's a great book called If It 267 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 3: Takes a Thousand Years available on Amazon that I would recommend. 268 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 3: It's a good read, easy for a teenager to read 269 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 3: or a young adult. But this is an ideological war, 270 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 3: and they have our children in their sights. It's not 271 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 3: something that is going to slip by them. I mean, 272 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 3: they're very much focused on the next generation. In fact, 273 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 3: on their own. That's the primary way that jihadist recruit 274 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 3: is getting to kids. Does the Jihad seem attractive to 275 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 3: join as an adult? It's a lot easier to get 276 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 3: to a kid, And let's face it, a kid's brain 277 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 3: is mush until they reach maybe twenty five. 278 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you one question about the Taliban. 279 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: The great deal of Afghanistan has to be understood as 280 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: tribal rather than religious. The tribal ties are very, very, 281 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: very deep to what a cent in that sense is 282 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: the talibana geographically defined threat, whereas Al Khalida, for example, 283 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: is by definition a global threat. 284 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 2: Taliban is kind of a misnomer. 285 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 3: I think, even though it is technically it's an organization, 286 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 3: it does have leadership, they don't really look at themselves 287 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 3: like that. They're really the students of the madrasa. And 288 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 3: so in the Pasto language, talib singular means student, Taliban 289 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 3: means students. These are the students of the Islamic schools. 290 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 3: And out of the four hundred interrogations or so that 291 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 3: I participated in, I don't recall a single one that 292 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 3: did not go through these Islamic madrasas. And so their 293 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 3: primary focus is on educating kids to this fundamentalist ideology. 294 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 3: How they recruit, that's how they grow. It's not just 295 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 3: specifically focused on that region. Their allies around the world. 296 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 3: They all operate in roughly the same way that jihadis 297 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 3: really share two commonalities all the groups, whether it's the Taliban, 298 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 3: al Qaeda, Hakani, what have you. Their number one goal 299 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 3: is to establish a global Islamic caliphate, which is a 300 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 3: government under Sharia Islamic law. They only split the world 301 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 3: into two parts. They call it Dar al Islam, which 302 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 3: is the land of Islam, and Dar al Harb the 303 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 3: land of war, and so it's one or the other. 304 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 3: Dar al Islam is the land that's been conquered that's 305 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 3: under Sharia law, Daryl Harb being where they're trying to conquer. 306 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,239 Speaker 3: And that's the ideology that the Taliban, that these students 307 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 3: of the Islamic schools are taught to believe. And so 308 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 3: the second commonality is that they all have this long 309 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 3: term emphasis on indoctrinating the next generation, and so that 310 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 3: is shared by all of them. I think are saving 311 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 3: grace is that they are split into this tribal mindset. 312 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,719 Speaker 3: Humans are wired that way. We have the republican tribe, 313 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 3: we have the democrat tribe. We have all these different groups, 314 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:10,919 Speaker 3: and even within that, we have different groups that we 315 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 3: get into and that's just how we're wired as a species. 316 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 3: But they take it to the extreme and the Islamic 317 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 3: world is so fractured, and it's really our saving grace. 318 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 3: I mean, the fact that they're so disjointed that they're 319 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 3: all fighting each other. I mean, I think the conflicts 320 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 3: that we face are not against governments of the Middle East, 321 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 3: but the Variousjihattist factions, and so heaven forbid, there'd be 322 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 3: a month's raider that would unite the clans north of 323 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 3: the Wall and get all the tribes together, because we'd 324 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 3: be in a lot of trouble. Those tribal differences where 325 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 3: they fight each other, whether it's Sunni tribe or Shia tribe, 326 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 3: or or the Palestinian tribe or all these other so 327 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 3: called tribes that have started that stuff seems to come first. 328 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 3: Their hatred of each other is deeper than their hatred 329 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 3: of the West. And it's wild to see it play out. 330 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 3: I mean, I saw it there where we would have 331 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 3: to separate detainees that were from different tribes because they 332 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 3: would kill each other on site. Pashtune would see a 333 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 3: hazarda and be at his neck, and it's just like, okay, 334 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 3: it's very different. I remember even in more western Islamic nations. 335 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 3: I remember my first trip to the Middle East was 336 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 3: to Jordan and driving along the desert Highway there. I 337 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 3: wanted to stop at some of the different villages that 338 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 3: look neat. I wanted to go get something to eat, 339 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 3: and the taxi driver said, no, we can't stop there. 340 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 2: We're not part of the tribe. You can't go there. 341 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 2: You'll get killed. 342 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 3: It's crazy, And I'm just thinking, it's like, Okay, that's 343 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 3: a little different than where I grew up. 344 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 2: I mean, imagine driving to New York and being like, 345 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 2: we can't stop in Jersey City. We're not part of 346 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 2: the tribe. So it's very, very different, that's for sure. 347 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,879 Speaker 1: Now, when you were done in Afghanishan, you went on 348 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: and toured a large part of the Islamic world. What 349 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: did that teach you? 350 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 3: The biggest takeaway, as I alluded to earlier, is it's 351 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 3: really not personal. A lot of these cultures were very warm, 352 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 3: very welcoming, especially from the Arab world. It's very different. 353 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 3: In visiting Islamic nations throughout the world and studying their history, 354 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 3: I realized what works in that part of the world, 355 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 3: because you do have so many of these different tribes 356 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 3: or tribal mindsets that are all at each other's throat. 357 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 3: It's the only things that work. The only forms of 358 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 3: government that works is a dictator, unfortunately, and so you 359 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 3: see the most stable places in the Islamic world were 360 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 3: led by a king, by some kind of a strong man, 361 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 3: and this is true throughout recent history. You look at 362 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 3: Kamal auto Turk, I think is the best example that 363 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 3: these people need an auto turk to keep them in line. 364 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 3: And that's where our foreign policy, I think failed to 365 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 3: understand just what a different mindset we're up against. I'm 366 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,880 Speaker 3: guilty of in two thousand and four of going along 367 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 3: with it when President Bush was saying democracy is on 368 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 3: the march, and you remember that. 369 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, this is great. We're going to 370 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 2: free them and they're gonna love us. This is great. 371 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 2: And it really fails to take into account all these 372 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 2: differences and. 373 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 3: Where they're at culturally. In the Federalist papers they mentioned, 374 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 3: you know, even Plato alluded to this as well and 375 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 3: some of the older writings that for a democracy to work, 376 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 3: a culture has to have reached that level of thought 377 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 3: to handle it, and these cultures, certainly most of them. 378 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 2: Have not yet and it takes time. 379 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 3: I mean, I remember one of the Taliban guy as 380 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 3: one of the fighters was brought in and the interrogator 381 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 3: came out laughing. You said, you never believe what just happened. 382 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 3: This guy I was taking notes during the interrogation and 383 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 3: he stopped me in the middle. This is the interrogator speaking, 384 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 3: he said. He stopped me in the middle of the 385 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 3: interrogation and said, through the translator, what's that stick in 386 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 3: your hand? 387 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 2: He had never seen a pen before in his life. 388 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 3: And these are the people that were trying to teach 389 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 3: Western democratic republican style governance. 390 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 2: He didn't know what a. 391 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 3: Pen was, never seen one. Granted this was thirteen years ago. 392 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 3: So the big game changer, though, I think in that. 393 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 2: Part of the world is the Internet. 394 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 3: Now that guy that doesn't know what a pen was 395 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 3: probably has a smartphone in his hand, and much of 396 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,879 Speaker 3: the Middle East is getting connected. They're seeing there's another way. 397 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 3: I think that's causing a lot of the unrest. It 398 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 3: certainly sparks the Arab spring with social media, it will 399 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 3: shake out. I think over the next few generations. I 400 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 3: am optimistic that you will have huge swaths of the 401 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 3: Islamic world that will be going through a reformation. And 402 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 3: it's already happening they don't like what they're seeing. So 403 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 3: I'm optimistic. I think it's a game changer. But again, 404 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 3: you can look at history, recent history, very recent every 405 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 3: time that open elections have been held in that part 406 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 3: of the world, that jihadis always find a way to 407 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 3: seize power, even if they're not in the majority. 408 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 2: It happened in Libya. 409 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 3: You could see in Egypt when we sold Hosnimabarak down 410 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 3: the river. 411 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 2: They held an open. 412 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 3: Election, the Muslim Brotherhood took charge Tunisia where the Arab 413 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 3: spring started. Kaza Is another examples. Gave them the vote, 414 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 3: and who do they vote for. They voted for Hamas 415 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 3: and so you can see the Auto Turk's reforms being 416 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 3: unwound in Turkey where they're now becoming more and more 417 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 3: of an Islamist state. And so anytime there's open elections, 418 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 3: they vote for what they know. They vote for Sharia, 419 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 3: and it's something that will take generations to get away from. 420 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 3: And it's not up to us. That's the thing is, 421 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 3: it's really not up to us. But it should be 422 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 3: reflected in our foreign policy that we understand that because 423 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 3: we've made that mistake twice now where we knock out 424 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 3: a secular dictatorship, and it's actually more than twice because 425 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 3: through other foreign policy missteps where we knock out secular 426 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,959 Speaker 3: dictators and then they replace it with Islamist governments, and 427 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 3: we fail to understand that a strong man is what's 428 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 3: needed in these parts of the world. 429 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: From that standpoint, though, I'm watching what is happening in 430 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: Turkey and it's frankly very sobering to see what was 431 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: probably the most methodical effort to get to a post 432 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: religious Islamic country may outa Turk just gradually being peeled 433 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: back by ord to one who clearly is moving towards 434 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: an Islamis state. 435 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 2: Would you agree with them absolutely? Is? 436 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 3: I mean, it's really disappointing to see before our eyes 437 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:39,360 Speaker 3: that happen. It's unfortunately not a surprise when you understand 438 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 3: who these people are and how aggressive they are. Just 439 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 3: to give you an example of how they seized power 440 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 3: in Egypt, this was just undermined Mubarik. 441 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 2: There. 442 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 3: They do the same things. They're very aggressive in Turkey 443 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 3: as well. Whenever their elections. There was a priest that 444 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 3: I talked to. He organized a bus of Christians from 445 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 3: a village to vote in one of the referendums and 446 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 3: the bus shows up and the Muslim Brotherhood there is 447 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,960 Speaker 3: the largest Islamist movement in the country. They have made 448 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,200 Speaker 3: themselves easily recognizable. They grow a beard, they mark themselves 449 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 3: on their forehead so they know who. 450 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 2: Each other is. 451 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 3: And what happened is they were standing out in front 452 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 3: of many of the polling places with knives and just 453 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 3: threatening anybody who didn't have a bruise on their forehead 454 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 3: and didn't have a beard. And this bus shows up 455 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 3: to vote. Guys with knives came out, the beard had 456 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 3: bruised Muslim Brotherhood members and they said no, turn the 457 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 3: bus around, and none of those people from that village 458 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 3: got to vote. That is how they intimidate, that's how 459 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 3: they operate, and it doesn't even need to be the 460 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,239 Speaker 3: majority of a country to do that. And so we 461 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 3: need to understand that. I mean, that's why it's so 462 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 3: important to support these secular leaders that are the strong 463 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 3: men in these types of nations, because if we don't, 464 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 3: if we say, yeah, let's give them some democratic reforms 465 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 3: or undermine the leadership, we see the results. 466 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 2: I mean, you can look at Syria. 467 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:03,719 Speaker 3: I mean you can look at what they did when 468 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 3: they toppled as odd. We're sure he was a brutal, 469 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 3: wicked dictator, but the alternative now we have the former 470 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 3: head of ices now in charge. I was talking to 471 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 3: somebody just this morning about that, where they would say, no, 472 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 3: what happened to isis didn't iis go away? And it's like, well, no, 473 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 3: they just trim their beards and put on a suit 474 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 3: and change their plans. 475 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 2: It's the same thing. 476 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 3: They realized that drowning people in cages and setting them 477 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 3: on fire wasn't winning the hearts and minds, so they 478 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 3: decided to think a little bit more long term and strategically, 479 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 3: and that's what they do. They're fighting these long term 480 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 3: battles and that's why we need to be educated on it. 481 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about what you see happening on 482 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: campuses and the scale of organization and money that's going 483 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: into things like the Muslim Student Association that now is 484 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: all across the country. 485 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 2: Right. 486 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it really comes down to parents being involved. 487 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 3: We're in a country that is the product of affluence. 488 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 3: We've had a pretty affluent country for the last entry. 489 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 3: There really hasn't been a lot of hardships since World 490 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 3: War Two and so you have kids that are searching 491 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 3: for purpose. I think we have a purpose problem in 492 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 3: this country. We had a purpose problem after World We're 493 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 3: two as well, where you had the Baby Boomers came 494 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 3: in one of the best times, just after one of 495 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 3: the worst times. The previous generation, the Greatest generation, they 496 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 3: lived through the Great Depression. 497 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 2: They felt purposeful. 498 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 3: I mean, they were plowing the fields, working in the factories, 499 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 3: trying to figure out how to eat, and they had 500 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 3: to go storm the beaches of Normandy. 501 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 2: They had real threats that they had to face. 502 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 3: And then what happened is the Baby Boomers came and 503 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 3: it was great economy. I mean, there were sure individual hardships, 504 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 3: but overall life was pretty easy and it's been pretty 505 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 3: easy since then. 506 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 2: So they lacked purpose. 507 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 3: There were some legitimate causes like the Civil Rights Act 508 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 3: and others that they got behind and passed. But then 509 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 3: so many of them got into teaching. They started having 510 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 3: their own or view that it's like, Okay, now they're 511 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 3: searching for something to do, and they're grabbing these purposes 512 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,959 Speaker 3: that they really don't know much about. Some of them 513 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 3: aren't that big of an issue. I mean, you look 514 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 3: at the transgender causes and other things that they're pushing 515 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,199 Speaker 3: that it's like, Okay, they're just looking for something someone 516 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 3: to champion, whether or not they even care about the 517 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 3: individual cause. And so if you look at these protests 518 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 3: on the college campuses or on not just college campuses, 519 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,199 Speaker 3: but protests everywhere that are in favor of Palestinians or 520 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 3: what have you, or over as I say, prohamas people 521 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 3: under twenty five and people over sixty five. 522 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 2: There isn't a whole lot in between. 523 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 3: And I think part of that, of course, is attributed 524 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 3: to the fact that when you're in your working age 525 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:42,199 Speaker 3: of life, you're busy. 526 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 2: But a lot of it I think has to do 527 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 2: with nine to eleven. 528 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 3: I mentioned I was eighteen when nine to eleven happened. 529 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 3: My generation, a lot of us went, and we went overseas, 530 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 3: we joined the military, and if even if we didn't, 531 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 3: we felt that there was a real thread out there, 532 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 3: and it kicked the can down the road a little bit. 533 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 3: But this next generation, though, they're searching, they're very much 534 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 3: searching for purpose. If you're searching for purpose and finding 535 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 3: it in in different groups like Black Lives Matter or 536 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 3: LGBTQ rights or what have you, it might be misguided 537 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,440 Speaker 3: and a few people might do stupid things, but you're 538 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 3: not going to march off a cliff supporting those things. 539 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 3: But supporting hamas you will. This is a real threat 540 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 3: to the West. The Jihadis are a threat. It's a 541 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 3: very long term threat, and if you want to open 542 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,439 Speaker 3: the door for these guys, it's going to have a 543 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,959 Speaker 3: very negative impact on Western civilization. And so for them 544 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 3: to be getting behind this issue, it's suicidal, it really is. 545 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 3: Dennis Brager actually wrote the blurb for my book and 546 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 3: the opening thing, and he called the Jihadis the monsters 547 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 3: of our time, and that's just it. These really are monsters. 548 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 3: And I tell my kids the monsters are not real, 549 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 3: but it's a lie. These are the monsters of our time, 550 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 3: and the children need to understand that. 551 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: To what extent do you think there's a genuine danger 552 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: that we are going to lose the internal ability to 553 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 1: oppose those these kind of moves. 554 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 3: I think we need to understand that these students that 555 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 3: are protesting on college campuses are the future voters of America. 556 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 3: These are our future presidents, these are our future senators, 557 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 3: our future members of Congress, and if we don't do 558 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 3: something in the next thirty or forty years as they're 559 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 3: taking over, they will enact disastrous policies that will have 560 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 3: incredible long term consequences. 561 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 2: You could look at. 562 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 3: Europe as the example of what some of these policies did. 563 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 3: They had this open immigration, they perpetuated it with this 564 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 3: generous welfare system that enabled these welfare reliant slums. And 565 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 3: I mean, the surest way to make sure that people 566 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 3: don't assimilate is to throw money at them and build 567 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 3: a bureaucracy of helpers whose jobs depend on these people 568 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 3: staying as part of the system. And so you see 569 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 3: the same types of demands from AOC and others that 570 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 3: are pushing for similar terrible policies, and you have young 571 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 3: people getting behind it without knowing the consequences, and so 572 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 3: it is a legitimate threat. I have full confidence, though, 573 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 3: if it gets too far, that Americans will step up 574 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 3: and right it. Unfortunately, I think that it might get 575 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 3: worse before or will get worse before it gets better. 576 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 3: But there are an awful lot of people yourself included 577 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 3: myself that if you served in any elected position, if 578 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 3: you served in law enforcement, if you join the military, 579 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 3: you swore an oath to defend the Constitution, and there 580 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 3: are an awful lot of us who have, and I 581 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 3: have full faith in the American people, especially now that 582 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 3: the Internet is more or less open through X and 583 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 3: other means, that they'll see what's going on. 584 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 2: They're not going to like it, and they'll right the wrong. 585 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 3: But I don't know what changes unless it gets really bad, 586 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 3: because you've seen that classic saying we're hard times creates 587 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 3: strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times creates 588 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 3: weak men, and weak men create hard times. So we 589 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 3: are in the last glory there right now, and I 590 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 3: don't see how things get better without this next generation 591 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 3: feeling some kind of hardship. Because those people that storm 592 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 3: the beaches of Normandy, that lived through the Great Depression, 593 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 3: they're the ones that put a man on the moon. 594 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 3: They built the Interstates, they invented the internet. Al Gore 595 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 3: did not invent the Internet, but they did, they worked, 596 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 3: and they persevered, and I think it really takes that 597 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 3: hardship to find purpose and to really have a reckoning, 598 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 3: And unfortunately that's. 599 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 2: Where we're heading. 600 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 3: Buy silver, learn how to grow your own crops and 601 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 3: be able to weather the storm, and teach your kids 602 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 3: the values that are so important to keeping this nation free. 603 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: Well to thank you for joining me, because in a sense, 604 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 1: your new book, If it Takes a Thousand Years from 605 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: Al Khalida to almas how the Jahadas think and how 606 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,479 Speaker 1: to defeat them. In a way, you are part of 607 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 1: the wake up call and you are laying out for 608 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: the American people how great the danger is and what 609 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: we're going to have to do. It is available now 610 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: on Amazon and in bookstores everywhere, and I want to 611 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: really thank you for helping us and being part of 612 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: this podcast. 613 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much, mister speaker. 614 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 3: I think it's important that we remember we're not fighting 615 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 3: against the Jihadiss, We're fighting for America. We're fighting for freedom, 616 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 3: and that's what it's all about. It's about preserving what 617 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 3: we've got. 618 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,479 Speaker 4: Thank you to my guest, Jesse Patrol. 619 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: You can get a link to buy his new book, 620 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: If it Takes a Thousand Years on our show page 621 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: at newtworld dot com. Newtworld is produced by Ginglishree sixty 622 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,959 Speaker 1: and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Slow. Our researcher 623 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was created 624 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: by Steve Penley Special thanks to the. 625 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 4: Team at ginglishree sixty. 626 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: If you've been enjoying Newsworld, I hope you'll go to 627 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,959 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars and 628 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: give us a review so others can learn what it's 629 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld consign up for 630 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: my three freeweekly columns at ginglishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. 631 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 4: I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.