1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday everyone. Last Saturday, we had kind of a 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: classics double feature, and we are doing that again today 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: as well. The Freedom Rides were happening about the same 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: time as the sit in movement of the nineteen sixties 5 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: that we talked about this week, and some of the 6 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,760 Speaker 1: same people were involved in both the Freedom Rides and 7 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: the sit ins. Sarah and Deblina did two episodes on 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: the Freedom Rides in the US since September eleven, and 9 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: they're a little bit shorter than our episodes typically are today, 10 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: so we are playing them both together, so enjoy. Welcome 11 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: to Stuff you missed in History Class, a production of 12 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, and welcome to 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Sarah Dowie and I'm Deblina Chalko Boarding 14 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: and you could be forgiven for thinking it's nineteen sixty 15 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: one again. With all of the big civil rights anniversaries 16 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: that have been in the news this year, fiftieth anniversaries, 17 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: that's so true, um, most notably the fiftieth anniversary of 18 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: the Freedom Rides this past May, when more than four 19 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: hundred people of all ages, male, female, black, white, different 20 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: religions from all over the country decided to challenge the 21 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: racial segregation of interstate buses, and the Freedom Rides have 22 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: been really well covered this year. There have been articles, 23 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: news stories, two reunions of writers, one in Jackson, Mississippi, 24 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: one in Chicago. I think that one was hosted by 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:34,040 Speaker 1: Oprah herself. There was a fantastic American Experienced documentary based 26 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: on the book on the Freedom Writers by Raymond Arsenal. 27 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: There have been op eds and reflections from the writers 28 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: in national papers. But we are not ones to let 29 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: the May anniversary of the Freedom Rides stop us from 30 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: doing a podcast on them in September, because September is 31 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: also a really important date for the Freedom Rides. It's 32 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: when change actually happened, when the Interstate Commerce Commission finally 33 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: ruled that the signs segregating whites and blacks at bus 34 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: and train facilities had to come down, and actually backed 35 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: up that ruling with a really hefty fine for offenders. 36 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: So that ruling validated the riders in their tactics, and 37 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: that's worth pointing out before we get into this two 38 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: part episode on the Freedom Rides, and before we get 39 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: into how the ride started, because even though today the 40 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 1: riders are clearly celebrated as civil rights heroes at the time. 41 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: What they were doing was extremely controversial, even within the 42 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: civil rights movement itself, so they didn't know what they 43 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: were what they were setting out to do. They just 44 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: knew they had to do it. But before we even 45 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: get to the rides themselves, our story really starts in 46 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: nineteen with a woman named Irene Morgan. Now everyone knows 47 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: Rosa Parks right and her refusal to give up her 48 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: bus seat in the nineteen fifties, but a decade earlier, 49 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: Morgan refused to give up her seat on a Greyhound 50 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: traveling through Virginia. And Morgan, who made World War Two 51 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,399 Speaker 1: bomber planes for a plant for a living, was coming 52 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: home to Baltimore after visiting her mother. So after refusing 53 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,679 Speaker 1: to move, she kicked the sheriff's deputy who tried to 54 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: take her off the bus, and later she said, quote, 55 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: I started to bite him, but he looked dirty, so 56 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: I couldn't bite him, So all I could do was 57 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: claw and tear his clothes. Yeah, and that and other 58 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: great quotes are from her New York Times obituary. But 59 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,639 Speaker 1: Morgan was arrested and went ahead paid that one hundred 60 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:33,519 Speaker 1: dollar fine for resisting arrest, but she refused to pay 61 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: the ten dollar fine for violating a Virginia law about 62 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: segregated seating, so it was off to court she went, 63 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: and eventually the n double a c p. Took up 64 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: her case and appealed to the Supreme Court, and in 65 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: ninety the court actually ruled in her favor in Morgan 66 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: versus Virginia and um just the gist of the ruling here, 67 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: seating arrangements for the different races in interstate motor travel 68 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: require a sing goal uniform rule to promote and protect 69 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: national travel. Sounds simple enough. Basically, you can't make African 70 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: Americans sit in the back of the bus and white 71 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: people sit in the front, and nobody should be giving 72 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: up their seat unless just to an old person or 73 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: something like that. So it sounds simple, but it wasn't 74 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: because Southern states continued to flaunt the law with segregated seating, 75 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: segregated waiting rooms, restrooms, water fountains. So eventually somebody decided 76 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: that they needed to do something and actually test out 77 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 1: this new law, and that was a group organized by 78 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: the Congress of Racial Equality or CORE and the Fellowship 79 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: of Reconciliation. They decided to test the new ruling by 80 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: staging the Journey of Reconciliation through the Upper South. The 81 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: Upper South. Yeah, and that's important here, especially when we 82 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: get into the later Freedom Rides where they head into 83 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: Alabama in Mississippi and and things get a lot different. 84 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: Back in nine seven, they knew that wasn't an option, right, 85 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: So basically this is how it worked. Eight black men 86 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: and eight white men would ride on interstate buses and 87 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: trains and see if Morgan versus Virginia was a law 88 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: in action or in name only. So there was a 89 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 1: catch though it would be non violent. Even if they 90 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: were faced with arrests or beatings, the writers would not react. 91 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: So while Morgan had been the inspiration for this, she 92 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: was obviously not their non violent role model, with her 93 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: attempted bites and all of that. I think that makes 94 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: Morgan such an interesting character in this whole thing too, 95 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: which is such a famous non violent movement that she 96 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: is the inspiration for it. But for that non violent inspiration, 97 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: leaders instead turned to Gandhi, and he actually was the 98 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: inspiration for Courts Founding back in nineteen two. But the 99 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,679 Speaker 1: Journey of Reconciliation, it sounds like it's gonna make waves. 100 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: It sounds like a big deal, but it really didn't 101 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: have that much of an impact. The writers did meet 102 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: with violence, three of them spent a month on a 103 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: North Carolina chain gang after violating segregation rules in Chapel Hill, 104 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: but the story wasn't really picked up by national media, 105 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: and folks just weren't that interested. So Arsenal writes that 106 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: the ride ultimately quote brought about little change and was 107 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: soon forgotten by all but a handful of non violent activists. 108 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: So a decade goes by, and then in nineteen sixty 109 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: some important things start to happen to inspire a new 110 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: wave of freedom rides. One of those things is that 111 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: JFK is elected president. Another is that Nashville sit ins 112 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: and segregation at city lunch counters there. And also the 113 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: Supreme Court issues another decision related to interstate travel. This 114 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: time it's a point in versus Virginia, which made any 115 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: racial segregation illegal in interstate commerce. And that's anything. So 116 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: not only should a black person be able to take 117 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: any seat on the bus, he should also be able 118 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: to use any waiting room, restroom, coffee counter, and so on. 119 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 1: All Right, so there's a new Supreme Court decision, and 120 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: this momentum going from the Nashville sit ins and Core 121 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: and its director James Farmer decide, let's test this new 122 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: ruling boy in versus Virginia. So this time, not only 123 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: would the new riders keep that direct action movement of 124 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: the sit ins going, they would help promote CORE too 125 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: on this national scale, since it was, after all, less 126 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: well known than the N double A c P or 127 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 1: SNICK or the S C l C. And that's something, 128 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: as we mentioned in the beginning, that this was kind 129 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: of controversial within the movement. That was something that added 130 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: to the ambivalence or sometimes outright hostility directed at the 131 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: initial ride by much of the movement um. But we've 132 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: got to give you a sense of how these initial 133 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: CORE riders were picked. Because they weren't just willy nilly 134 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: passengers on the bus. They all had to be trained, 135 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: they all had to come with recommendations even and again 136 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: they all kind of came from different sort of facets 137 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: of life. One member, James Peck, was from Manhattan and 138 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: he had participated in the nineteen forties Journey of Reconciliation, 139 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: so he had some experience with this. The others were 140 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: handpicked to maintain their non violent directive. So in addition 141 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: to having to get recommendations, as Sarah said, the youngest 142 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: of them also had to get parental permission. They also 143 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: underwent careful training to resist that violent impulse, but really 144 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: they only anticipated refusal of service and possibly maybe arrest. 145 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: You can see videos that of this training, and it's 146 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 1: pretty fascinating to watch and really uncomfortable because you know, 147 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 1: it is a simulated situation in these people actually all 148 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: know each other. Well, there's the man playing the antagonizer, 149 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: the woman playing the waitress, and it's it's strange to see. 150 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: But as you mentioned, they were from all different walks 151 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: of life. They were all ages, all professions, students, retirees, editors, 152 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: was a folk singer, and most were from the North 153 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: or the Midwest, with a few southern exceptions, including probably 154 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: the most famous rider, John Lewis, he was from Alabama. UM. 155 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: But that's something also to consider when we were mentioning 156 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: earlier about the hostility or ambivalence within the movement, that 157 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: these people were largely Northerners, were largely Midwesterners, and they 158 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: were coming into the South to to test these segregated 159 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: Jim Crow rules. So the first riders left May fourth, 160 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one. They were departing from Washington, d C. 161 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: And ultimately the final destination was going to be New Orleans, 162 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 1: which it's a bus ride that was going to take 163 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: a while, and they didn't really know what they would 164 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: encounter along the way. But the bus started out winding 165 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: its way through Virginia and North Carolina. There were thirteen riders. 166 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: They were taking Greyhound and Trailways buses, so two different lines, 167 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 1: just testing out the whole range of the system. And 168 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: at first they really saw what they expected. Stations would 169 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: sort of reluctantly break from their segregationists policies just while 170 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: the writers were there. So just go ahead and let 171 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: them sit in the black sitting room or the white 172 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: sitting room, whatever race. They weren't, let them use the 173 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: wrong restroom, whatever they were doing, and then just um 174 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: let them be, let them get on their bus and 175 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 1: move on through town, get out of their hair, and 176 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: presumably returned to business as usual, which was full on segregation. 177 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: But by Charlotte, North Carolina, that wasn't what was happening anymore. 178 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: People weren't just letting it slide until they were gone, 179 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: trouble started. There were arrests and beatings in rock Hill, 180 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: South Carolina, and by made their teenth be Writers finally 181 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 1: made it to Atlanta, where they had this little get 182 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: together sort of pause in the ride planned with Dr 183 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: Martin Luther King. Yeah, and they were really hoping that 184 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,719 Speaker 1: when they got there he would join in become a 185 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: freedom writer with them, but instead he took a very 186 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: different attitude. He warned them. He told them that he 187 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: had heard bad news coming out of Alabama and they 188 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: should seriously reconsider continuing on and even questioning the wisdom 189 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: of what they were doing in the first place, whether 190 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: this was really helping the movement. So this is pretty 191 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 1: discouraging news to hear it their Atlanta reception, and to 192 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: make matters worse, James Farmer, the leader of Core, gets 193 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: word that his father has died and has to pull 194 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: out for a few days to go home. Still though 195 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: May fourteen, Mother's Day, the leaderless Writer set off from 196 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 1: Atlanta to Birmingham, Alabama, on Greyhound and Trailways buses that 197 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: are leaving one hour apart, and sure enough, shortly after 198 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: crossing the Alabama state line, one of the buses runs 199 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 1: into trouble. The greyhound hits a crowd of about two 200 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: hundred men in Anniston. Yeah, and it's all been planned. 201 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,599 Speaker 1: A klansman lies down in front of the bus so 202 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: that the other members of the mob can slash the 203 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,839 Speaker 1: tires and the bus maneuver out of town, but it's 204 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: followed and hounded by a car. Then finally the tires 205 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: go flat. The driver gets out, checks them and walks away, 206 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 1: just leaves the people on the bus. And there's this 207 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: really harrowing scene in the documentary where passenger may Francis 208 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: Moultrie here someone shouting where is the gas? Where is 209 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: the gas? Yeah, I'd really recommend to that documentary for 210 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: seeing some of these freedom writers reflect on it and 211 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 1: and say what they heard and what they experienced. But 212 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: the mob attacks the bus then and throws a firebomb 213 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: in through the back window and then blocks the door 214 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: to prevent the people from getting off. And also keep 215 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: in mind there aren't just freedom writers on this bus. 216 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: They're regular passengers to who are just trying to get 217 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,599 Speaker 1: to Birmingham or wherever and are caught up in this. 218 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: Two things ultimately saved the riders and those unaffiliated bus passengers. 219 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: The fuel tank explodes, which makes the mob back away 220 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,760 Speaker 1: from the bus, and then highway patrolman finally arrived, but 221 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: not until the coughing, choking passengers who have just escaped 222 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: from the bus are beaten by the crowd. There's one 223 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: catch though with this, With this violent scene, photographs are 224 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: taken and it becomes a major news story and they 225 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: go worldwide, not just a national news story, becomes worldwide news, 226 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: something terrible happening in the United States. But meanwhile, that 227 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: second bus is still chugging on towards Birmingham. Yeah where. 228 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: Little did they know, the city's Commissioner of Public Safety, 229 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: Bull Connor, has made a deal with the KKK. The 230 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: deal is that when the bus comes to town, the 231 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: clan will get fifteen minutes without police interference to do 232 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: whatever they want to people in the bus, no arrests, 233 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: no trouble at all. And there's another catch to this too. 234 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,439 Speaker 1: The FBI had an informant and the clan, and he 235 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: knew the plan to attack the bus. J Edgar Hoover 236 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: didn't report the mob's plans to Attorney General Robert Kennedy. 237 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: The informant even participated when the mob attacked and beat 238 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: the writers as they came into the station, and we're 239 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: going to talk about that a little more in the 240 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: part two of this episode and and some of the 241 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: legal battles that ensued. But just like an Aniston, photographers 242 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: get pictures of this mob attacking the passengers coming from Atlanta, 243 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: and this news makes international headlines too. It's very disturbing 244 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: to people, and it's something that um, the federal administration 245 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: really can't ignore. So Jim Peck, who has been unofficially 246 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: in charge since James Farmer left, makes the call to 247 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: continue the ride from the hospital. He has been severely beaten. 248 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: And it's worth noting here too that a lot of 249 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: the white riders would be targeted initially sort of as 250 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: betrayers to their race by the mob. So Jim Peck 251 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: was really really bad off. Pictures of him are disturbing 252 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: to see, but he said that they felt quote they 253 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: must not surrender to violence. So let's not stop here. 254 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: There's a problem though, Like I mean, that's a very noble, 255 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: brave thing to do to try to continue the ride, 256 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: but there's a problem. None of the drivers out of 257 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: Birmingham are willing to take them. Nobody wants to risk it. 258 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: Nobody wants to risk being on a firebomb bus or 259 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: attacked by a mob and and dragged down with the 260 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: rest of them. Yeah, I mean, you can hardly blame them. 261 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: But they finally decide that the ride has to end. 262 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: They'll fly to New Orleans instead, but even that proves 263 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: to be quite difficult. The mob follows them, a bomb 264 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: threat is called in on their plane, and it seems 265 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: that they're stuck in Alabama and definitely can't get out 266 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: of the Birmingham airport. So, like we said, by this 267 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: point that Kennedy's really have to get involved with this 268 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: story all over the world's papers and the poor beaten 269 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: freedom writers stuck in the airport. They can't let things 270 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: get anywhere. So John Seigenthaler, who was the assistant to 271 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: Attorney General Robert Kennedy, arranges the rider's flight and escorts 272 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 1: them to New Orleans. They're they're met by state police 273 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: at the plane, who protect them but also curse them 274 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: as they walk to the terminal, and that ends the ride. 275 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: It's over. The Kennedys think that hopefully it's all over, 276 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: um they can get back to international pursuits, but it's 277 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: not because there is another wave setting out from Nashville. 278 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: The students in the Nashville Student Movement realized that they 279 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: couldn't let corps attempt and there end in violence. And 280 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: the leader of that movement, Diane Nash, who was a 281 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: student in the Nashville movement, told of Birmingham reverend quote, 282 00:16:54,280 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 1: if they stop us with violence, the movement is dead. Hello, 283 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Sarah Daddy and I'm 284 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: to Blean and Chuck reporting. And this September we are 285 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: commemorating the fiftieth anniversary of the Interstate Commerce Commissions ruling 286 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: that all interstate bus and train facilities in the US 287 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: had to pull down signs segregating whites and blacks. And 288 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,479 Speaker 1: it was the result of a summer long effort by 289 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: a group that called themselves the Freedom Writers to test 290 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: laws that were already on the books. But we're just 291 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: largely ignored through many Southern states. So picking up where 292 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 1: we left off, the original core writers have been badly beaten, traumatized, 293 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: and essentially evacuated out of Birmingham for New Orleans by 294 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: a special assistant to Attorney General Robert Kennedy. And it 295 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,920 Speaker 1: seems like at this time that the freedom Ride that 296 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: had started May fourth, nine sixty one in d C 297 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: was over at this point. Yeah, well and we should 298 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,959 Speaker 1: we should say too, Like, if you are a listener 299 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: who drops in on random podcast, it really is worth 300 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: going back and checking out that first episode because it 301 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: will help give you the context you need for this 302 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: one since it is a part two. But we left 303 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: it a real cliffhanger there. That was That was a 304 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: crucial moment there in New Orleans defeated. It seems the 305 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: Kennedy's feel that things are wrapped up to their satisfaction, 306 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: but then suddenly they get news out of Nashville that 307 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: things aren't over at all. Right. Students in Nashville, many 308 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: of them were veterans of the lunch counter sit ins, 309 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: though still in their teens in early twenties, they decided 310 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: that the ride could not end in violence. So, spearheaded 311 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: by Diane Nash, who was a Fisk student, many members 312 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: of the Nashville student movement decided to skip their finals 313 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: and go to Alabama. Get on a bus, and they 314 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: completely know what's at stake. This is the part that's 315 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: just crazy to me. They make their wills, these young kids, 316 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: and they board busses to Birmingham, nash who coordinates the 317 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: whole thing from home base in Nash. Bill basically tells 318 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: of Birmingham Pasture, We're coming, yeah, and I mean the 319 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: Wills is the really shocking part. But the leaving before 320 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: finals is a really big deal too, because a lot 321 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: of these kids are the first members of their family 322 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: to go to college. But they decide that continuing the 323 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: freedom rides, not letting non violence end in violence like this, 324 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: is more important. So this time, though, the makeup of 325 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: the riders is a little different from the first ride, 326 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: which was all staged by the group Core. It's still 327 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: a mix of black and white men and women, and 328 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: they're taking Greyhound and Trailways buss just like before, but 329 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: they're all quite young this time. There were middle aged folks, 330 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,120 Speaker 1: retired people last time. Most of them now though, are 331 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty. And there are also a lot more Southerners 332 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: in the group, so kids from Atlanta and Nashville, of course, Charleston, Tampa, 333 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: in addition to kids from other parts of the country 334 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: New York, Oklahoma, Illinois. It's it's kind of a more 335 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: diverse group in that sense. Strange thing happens when they 336 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,359 Speaker 1: get to Birmingham, though, when the first bus arrives, Commissioner 337 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: of Public Safety Bull Connor, who we mentioned in the 338 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: last podcast, he lets the regular passengers off, covers the 339 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: window with paper, and then holds the remaining people on board, 340 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: and finally, after they sweat it out in the may 341 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: heat for a while, they're let off and then they 342 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:25,239 Speaker 1: proceed to the white waiting area and they're arrested that night. 343 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: They're released from jail and put into cars, which is 344 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: very ominous, but they drive right to the state line 345 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: of Alabama and Tennessee and they're told by Connor to 346 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: get out and make their way back to Nashville. From there, 347 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: Tennessee State University student Katherine Burke's Brooks tells Connor that 348 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: we'll see you back in Birmingham by high noon. So 349 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: they're not about to be put down, no, and and 350 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 1: this is still a scary situation though, that they've just 351 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 1: been dropped off in the middle of nowhere, in the 352 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 1: middle of the night. They don't know if maybe there's 353 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: some vigilante group the Clan waiting for them on the 354 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: other side of the border. A bullet bull Connor is 355 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: just handing them off or what they're going to do, 356 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: so they hide. They find shelter with an older couple 357 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: and by the next day nash has arranged from Afar 358 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: a ride for them to get back to Birmingham, and 359 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 1: I don't think they make it by noon, but they 360 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,639 Speaker 1: do make it back the next day. But by the 361 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: time they're back in Birmingham, the Nashville Riders meet the 362 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: second wave of their group. They are just like last time, 363 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: different buses traveling into Alabama, but there's a problem. Besides 364 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: bull Connor in the threatening crowd, the bus drivers won't drive, 365 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: so the riders are stuck there again. They're stuck in Birmingham, 366 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: and we mentioned this in the last episode, individual bus 367 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: drivers refusing to drive because they were afraid they would 368 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: get their bus set on fire or be beaten or something, 369 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: but in this case it's the entire union refusing to drive, 370 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 1: so there's really no way out of town again, so 371 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: for the moment, it's looking kind of hopeless, but the 372 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: Kennedy administration finally pressure's Alabama's Governor John Patterson to promise 373 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: protection or else face having the National Guard called in, 374 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: and so Paterson agrees to provide state protection as the 375 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: writers continue their trip to Montgomery, Alabama. Yeah. We mentioned 376 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 1: this American Heritage documentary in the last episode, based on 377 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: Raymond Arsenal's book, and it really contains some great interviews 378 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 1: with former freedom writers. But it's worth watching, I think 379 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: just to see Katherine Burke's Brooks expression as she recalls 380 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: feeling relaxed enough to doze on the bus. It's kind 381 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: of an expression like what was I thinking, mixed with 382 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: total disappointment, a little sarcasm thrown in there. It's it's 383 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: a you should watch it just to see that. But 384 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: that feeling, that total relaxation, able to fall asleep on 385 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: the bus feeling, obviously doesn't last very long because in Montgomery, 386 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: the state protection drops off, and they're thinking, well, the 387 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: city police will pick up protection, but nobody ever comes, 388 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: so here the bus is just rolling into Montgomery with 389 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: no one around them. Yeah, and John Seagan Thaler, Robert 390 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 1: Kennedy's assistant, the man who had been negotiating with the 391 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: governor about providing state protection. He remembered thinking, quote, I 392 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: knew suddenly betrayal, disaster, I hope not death. So he's 393 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: scared too. At this point, a mob of more than 394 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,159 Speaker 1: two hundred weights at the Greyhound station for them, the 395 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: first target this time is the reporters and a cameraman, 396 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: because the mob has seen how quickly these pictures get out, 397 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: not just in the South, not just in the United States, 398 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: but all over the world, and they don't want that 399 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: to happen again. So for a sense of what this 400 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 1: would have been like for the reporters, Time reporter Calvin Trillin, 401 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 1: who took part in the rise as a journalist, recently 402 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: wrote in The New Yorker that he'd tell his friend, 403 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: a life photographer, quote, when we get in one of 404 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: those situations, At best, I don't know you. At worst, 405 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: I'm one of the people chasing you. Of course, the 406 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: writers were also very severely beaten. As a white writer, 407 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: Jim's work was quickly beaten, unconscious and kicked in the 408 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 1: face before going down. Though he remembered seeing men armed 409 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: with baseball bats, chains, hammers, and this is crazy, even 410 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 1: one guy with a pitchfork, so imagine that coming towards you. 411 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: Burke's Brooks remembers women shouting with babies in their arms. 412 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: It was a spectacle. In addition to this really violent scene, 413 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: and John Lewis, who had been part of the original 414 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: Core ride and had been actually attacked in South Carolina. 415 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: Was hit in the head with a wooden crate, and 416 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: William Barbie had somebody try to drive a steel rod 417 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 1: through his ear, and even Singing Dollar, who is the 418 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: direct representative to the President, was hit with a pipe 419 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: trying to help one of the female Freedom writers and 420 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: he was knocked unconscious. So finally the police arrived. They 421 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: broke up the crowd with tear gas. So the next 422 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 1: day May One sort of marks at turning point for 423 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: the Freedom rides. The riders and hundred supporters filled the 424 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,479 Speaker 1: First Baptist Church in Montgomery for a meeting, and by 425 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: this point Martin Luther King and the larger movement really 426 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: had to get involved in stand behind the riders, even though, 427 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: as we mentioned before, many were ambivalent about the ride 428 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: initially or even thought it would come out hurting the movement, 429 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: But after the violence that had had happened, they had 430 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: to all stand together and and support the ride, And 431 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: so Martin Luther King actually comes down to Montgomery to 432 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: meet up with everyone here at the church. Outside the church, though, 433 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: a mob of three thousand gathers and they're breaking windows, 434 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: threatening to burn down the church. The marshals that are 435 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: set into control the crowd are just random federal workers. 436 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: They dispersed tear gas with the wind blowing towards them 437 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: and end up having to run away. They just have 438 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: little patches on their sleeves, not even uniforms. So after 439 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,160 Speaker 1: that there's this night of phone calls. Martin lu Their 440 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: Kings on the phone with Robert Kennedy trying to get 441 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 1: them to do something. Robert Kennedy is on the phone 442 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: with Patterson trying to get him to act. Martin Luther 443 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: King even even gathers up a group of committed nonviolent 444 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: volunteers to leave the church and dissuade a group of 445 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: black cab drivers from using violence against the mom So 446 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 1: they're still trying to stick to their principle of non 447 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: violence here. It's the best way for them to hopefully 448 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: get out of this situation too. So finally the governor 449 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: puts the city under martial law, and people in the 450 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 1: church are free, you know, the crowd has broken up. 451 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: They're free to go, and the freedom writers are also 452 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: free to continue under the protection this time of the 453 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 1: Alabama National Guard. So they hit the road heading towards Mississippi, 454 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: and at the border, the Mississippi National Guard takes over 455 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: with commands to take the bus right on through to Jackson, 456 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: no stops, no trouble, and it kind of seems like 457 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: they're out of the frying pan into the fire here. 458 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: Because Mississippi was considered the most dangerous Southern state. You 459 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: can hear them talk about how as bad as Alabama 460 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: had had been for them, Mississippi seemed like there might 461 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: be worth the worst things waiting, And there were scary 462 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: signs right across the border. There were signs that said 463 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: things like quote prepare to meet Thy God. So it 464 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: looked like it was going to be as bad as 465 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: they thought it was going to be. But response that 466 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: they get there is quite different from Alabama's messy mob violence. 467 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: According to Trillan, the former Time reporter, Mississippi's Citizens Council 468 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: and State Sovereignty Commission wanted to avoid national news scandals 469 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: and presidential interference too, and the president an attorney general 470 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: wanted to avoid the violence and beatings on the national news, 471 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: so they made this compromise. Instead of mob violence, there 472 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 1: would be an organized, rapid police response. So what does 473 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: that mean? This basically means that the first writers from 474 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: trail Ways disembarked the bus, went to the whites waiting 475 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: room and were asked to leave politely, and after they refused, 476 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: they were arrested. And this happened again with the greyhound bus. 477 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: The charges against them are things like a breach of peace. Yeah, 478 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: so it's this very orderly, non violent, uh, comparatively calm. Yeah, 479 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: maybe even disturbingly calm. I don't know, after what they've 480 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: gone through. But from there they'd be quickly processed and 481 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: sent through court, put into the city jail, and then 482 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: eventually shipped off not just to any old prison, but 483 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: to the state penitentiary Parchment State Prison Farm, which was 484 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: one of the most notorious prisons in the country. Just 485 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 1: a little side note, even if you don't know about Parchment, 486 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: you've probably heard about it if you've listened really carefully 487 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: to blues or folk recordings, because in the nineteen thirties 488 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 1: Allen Lomax recorded singers and bluesmen for the Library of 489 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: Congress singing really sad songs about how hard life was 490 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: in Parchment. But the freedom writers didn't have the expected 491 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: reaction that all the authorities in Mississippi thought they would have. 492 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: They thought that they would just post bail, get out 493 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: and not got back. Yeah, get out of town. But 494 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: instead they take up the slogan jail no bail and 495 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: resolved to fill up the prison and clog up their system. 496 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 1: So busloads of them just keep coming through that summer, 497 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: even though on May Robert Kennedy petitioned the Interstate Commerce 498 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: Commission to prohibit segregation and interstate bus travel and pleaded 499 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: with the writers to take a cooling off period while 500 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,880 Speaker 1: the request was processed. So he was basically like, Okay, 501 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: we're trying to put this through, can you guys please 502 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: stop for a little while. He was encouraging them to 503 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: shift their attention to voter registration, you know, something something 504 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: to work on. Please let this go, but they were 505 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: completely unwilling to do that. They rejected the cooling off 506 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: period and instead the rides intensified. Ultimately, three hundred of 507 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: the four hundred and thirty six Freedom Writers ended up 508 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: at Parchment Prison, and finally, by September, the anniversary we 509 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: are commemorating year, the i c C issued the order 510 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: that all segregated signs would come down at interstate bus 511 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: and train terminals. Um, and we've got to talk about 512 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: the the effect of the rides and what people thought 513 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: at the time, since they were kind of unpopular at 514 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: the beginning, even within the movement. According to the New 515 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: Yorker article we mentioned earlier, in nineteen sixty one Gallop 516 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: poll showed that only one in four Americans approved of 517 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: the rides, But after the victory, it was clear that 518 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: they had accomplished something, They had been effective. Yeah, so 519 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: they saw that nonviolent activism could really work. According to 520 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: a Smithsonian article by Marion Smith Holmes the New York Times, 521 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: for example, which was formerly critical of the rides, they 522 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 1: admitted that the Freedom writers quote started the chain of 523 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: events which resulted in the New I c. C Order. 524 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: It also had the effect of empowering young student leaders 525 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: in the movement and of forcing ties between the Kennedy 526 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: administration and civil rights leaders. Exactly those late night phone 527 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: calls we were talking about, where Martin Luther king Is 528 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: is calling up the Kennedy's and all of these nineteen 529 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: year old twenty year olds who decide to leave school 530 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: during their exams and go out and do this. But 531 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: in addition to Raymond Arsenal's book and that American Experience 532 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: documentary that is inspired by it. There is just so 533 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: much on this story. It's a really it's a really 534 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,719 Speaker 1: great one if you want to do some research yourself 535 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: and get even deeper into it. Their countless interviews and 536 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: articles by former writers and politicians and journalists. And there's 537 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: a great photographic record too, And I wanted to just 538 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,479 Speaker 1: talk about that a little bit more because I think 539 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: it's so interesting. So there aren't just images of the 540 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,440 Speaker 1: violent beatings and the burning buses and the segregated waiting rooms, 541 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: those images that really went across international newspaper headlines. There 542 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: are also kind of more personal images too. So in 543 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: two thousand two, the Mississippi State Sovereignty Commission was forced 544 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: to open its archives after this lengthy, like multi decade 545 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: long lawsuit with the American Civil Liberties Union. And after that, 546 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,959 Speaker 1: three hundred mug shots of the freedom writers became available 547 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: for the first time, and an editor named Eric Etheridge 548 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 1: decided to he was really moved by all of these 549 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: photos of these people who have been arrested and kind 550 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: of have these defiant looks. Some of them are almost smiling, 551 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: some of them have clearly been roughed up, but he 552 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: decided to seek out the freedom writers that were photographed 553 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: and re photographed them, since they would of course all 554 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: be mature adults by that point, and he just cold 555 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: called them. He told Smithsonian that his quote best ice 556 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: breaker was, I have your mug shot from nineteen sixty one. 557 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: Have you ever seen it? It's a very cool story. 558 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: He got a lot of photos, made a book out 559 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: of it. And it is really interesting too to see 560 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: what these people went on to do the rest of 561 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: their lives after after doing something like this, maybe when 562 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: they're only nineteen years old. Yeah, I mean I have 563 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: to imagine that it was thrilling to call them and 564 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: maybe meet them. I mean, these people, no matter what 565 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: you think about their strategy, how they went about what 566 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: they did, they were uniquely brave people. Yeah, and to 567 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: find out how many of them were still involved in 568 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: activism or had continued work that seemed really fitting for 569 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: somebody who was a former freedom writer, somebody who would 570 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: go out and and do this. Thank you so much 571 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: for joining us today for this Saturday classic. If you 572 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: have heard any kind of email address or maybe a 573 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: Facebook you are l during the course of the episode, 574 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: that might be obsolete. It might be doubly obsolete because 575 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: we have changed our email address again. You can now 576 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 1: reach us at History podcast at i heart radio dot com, 577 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: and we're all over social media at missed in History, 578 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,120 Speaker 1: and you can subscribe to our show on Apple podcast Us, 579 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: Google Podcasts, the I heart Radio app, and wherever else 580 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class 581 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: is a production of I heart Radio's How Stuff Works. 582 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio visits, I heart 583 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 584 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:18,240 Speaker 1: favorite shows.