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Speaker 1: It's a Wednesday, so that means we're dropping something from

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Speaker 1: the Film Spotting archive for all of you to enjoy,

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Speaker 1: not just Film Spotting family members who can pick and

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Speaker 1: choose from anything in the archive. Opening this weekend. It's

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Speaker 1: a movie we're going to get to on next week's show,

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Speaker 1: The Drama with Zendeia and Robert Pattinson. Now that film

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Speaker 1: is about a couple that's about to get married. We thought,

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Speaker 1: why not share our top five movies about marriage. This

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Speaker 1: is a list Adam from twenty nineteen. I don't want

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Speaker 1: you to spoil anything, but looking back on the titles

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Speaker 1: before we share the episode, how do you feel about

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Speaker 1: your picks?

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Speaker 2: I feel great about it and it was a perfect

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Speaker 2: tie in at the time. Marriage Story. The Noah Baumbach

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Speaker 2: movie was the review that did instigate this top five

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Speaker 2: and I'm looking at the movies in front of us,

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Speaker 2: I think we both did well. This is how good

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Speaker 2: this top five is when you have as your number

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Speaker 2: five one of the movies I think I put on

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Speaker 2: my site and sound list is one of the ten

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Speaker 2: best films of all time, or or was at least

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Speaker 2: in the conversation. That's how much I love that film.

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Speaker 2: And we both had to sneak on pantheon entries, including

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Speaker 2: that number five film. Well, that tells you that it's

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Speaker 2: going to be pretty good. I even got a movie

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Speaker 2: in there that is so appropriate for this list, hence

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Speaker 2: it being my number four, but is a smaller movie

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Speaker 2: from a few years ago that probably not a lot

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Speaker 2: of people remember, Josh. And actually there's another one right

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Speaker 2: after it at number three that more people should know

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Speaker 2: and remember. And those are the kind of films we

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Speaker 2: like to highlight sometimes with these top fives and try

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Speaker 2: to make sure more people discover. So some big titles,

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Speaker 2: but some smaller films as well on these lists.

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned the pantheons, so if I'm looking at

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Speaker 1: this list again, we both chose movies that were already

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Speaker 1: in the pantheon, which isn't which is a no no

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Speaker 1: essentially right, is that supposed to be a no no?

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Speaker 2: I guess supposed to be in a special dispensation for

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Speaker 2: this is.

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Speaker 1: That what we did did we we didn't pay attention

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Speaker 1: to the rules, which who sometimes happens? I mean anyway,

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Speaker 1: we think these picks are valid. We hope you enjoy them.

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Speaker 1: From November twenty nineteen, The Top five movies about Marriage.

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Speaker 2: I was trying to be nice.

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Speaker 3: I like your friends.

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Speaker 2: I know, I'm a warm person.

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Speaker 4: I was.

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Speaker 1: I know I'm not one of those stiffs that you like.

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Speaker 4: They knows?

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Speaker 5: Is that it?

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Speaker 2: And General Rowlands and Peter Falk from John Can Savetti's

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Speaker 2: a Woman under the Influence from nineteen seventy four, helping

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Speaker 2: us transition into our top five. This week, Inspired by

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Speaker 2: Noah Boumback's marriage story, we are sharing our top five

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Speaker 2: movies about marriage, probably setting the tone there for this

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Speaker 2: list in our choices, movies where the marriage is rife

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Speaker 2: with conflict, and if it wasn't rife with conflict, then

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Speaker 2: it probably wouldn't be much of a story. Now, this

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Speaker 2: top five is one we have done in the past,

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Speaker 2: In fact, a very very long time ago. Episode twenty

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Speaker 2: eight of the show long before you join Josh. This

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Speaker 2: would have been in two thousand and five, the first

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Speaker 2: year of the show, and it was a tie in

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Speaker 2: with our review of Ingmar Bergman's latest at the time,

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Speaker 2: Sarah Band. It was a film that was basically a

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Speaker 2: sequel thirty years later, Yeah to Scenes from a Marriage,

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Speaker 2: a movie that definitely had a big influence on bound

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Speaker 2: Back and marriage story. And sometimes when I look back

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Speaker 2: on lists from that long ago, I can cringe a

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Speaker 2: little bit at some of my choices. I don't know

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Speaker 2: that there's too many top five lists that I feel

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Speaker 2: like I just completely failed, But occasionally one or two choices,

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Speaker 2: I think, Man, so many more movies I've seen now,

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Speaker 2: so much more experience, I'm so much wiser, I'd have

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Speaker 2: such a better list, And here I am getting a

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Speaker 2: chance to make right. Except I don't feel too embarrassed

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Speaker 2: at all.

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Speaker 1: Here are the choices.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so I had Kramer versus Kramer, Okay, Number

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Speaker 2: five definitely a movie about divorce. I had Husbands and Wives,

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Speaker 2: the Woody Allen film at number four, raising Arizona, the

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Speaker 2: Coene Brothers film.

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Speaker 1: Interesting.

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Speaker 2: I had number three. A Woman under the Influence was

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Speaker 2: my number two choice. That was one of the Cassavetti's

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Speaker 2: films I had seen before we did our recent marathon

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Speaker 2: on his work, And finally I had Bergmann Scenes from

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Speaker 2: a Marriage a number one. So I think easily those

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Speaker 2: first two Scenes from a Marriage and the Cassavetties need

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Speaker 2: to be considered in any list of the best movies

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Speaker 2: about marriage?

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Speaker 1: Are you setting those all aside?

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Speaker 2: So of course I'm setting those aside. I have five

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Speaker 2: new choices, and we'll see if in ten or twelve

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Speaker 2: years I regret these choices. I don't think I will, Josh,

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Speaker 2: but why don't you get it started?

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Speaker 1: All right?

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Speaker 6: So?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my first crack at this, and it was hard.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are so many good options here. I

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Speaker 1: think what distinguishes the five that ended up making my

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Speaker 1: list sort of the framework that helped me narrow it

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Speaker 1: down is that I have five films that, for me,

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Speaker 1: each reveal a certain truth, at least as I've experienced it,

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Speaker 1: about marriage. So each of these have either a moment

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Speaker 1: or just the whole cumulative effect is Oh, it gets this, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it gets it really right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I had it too. The way I phrased it

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Speaker 2: was what aspect or nuance of marriage does the movie offer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm looking for those truths. I'll probably talk

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Speaker 1: about those for each of these picks now because this

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Speaker 1: is such a rich topic. These are all great movies too,

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Speaker 1: so I think every movie on my list I've given

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Speaker 1: four out of four stars to so these are also

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Speaker 1: just on their surface, great films. At number five, well,

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Speaker 1: it turns out that master Indian filmmaker Satuget Ray we

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Speaker 1: did a twenty fourteen marathon on him. He made a

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Speaker 1: bunch of great movies in which marriage played a part.

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Speaker 1: On Twitter, when we asked for suggestions, Timothy Sudlichek suggested

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four's Sharrulata The Lonely Wife, which I love.

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Speaker 1: Greg f suggested nineteen sixty three's The Big City, which

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Speaker 1: I love even more. Both certainly count's marriage movies. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised if you go one of those directions, Adam.

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Speaker 1: But my choice for this list is Aphor Sansar, also

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Speaker 1: known as the World of Opu, and it's the final

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Speaker 1: installment in rayz Opoo trilogy. I am committing a violation here.

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Speaker 1: Let me just put this out there. I totally forgot

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Speaker 1: I'm throwing thinking about this list. That the entire trilogy

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Speaker 1: is in the pantheon, thus ineligible. So sorry, I realized

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Speaker 1: that too late, didn't have time to switch things out,

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Speaker 1: and just honestly just wanted to talk.

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Speaker 2: Again about I'm not sure how our relationship can handle.

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Speaker 1: I will accept my punishment. There is, though, this middle

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Speaker 1: section in Apur Sansar that is so exquisitely joyful and romantic,

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Speaker 1: and given all of the heaviness of marriage story and

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Speaker 1: a lot of these movies we're going to talk about,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted something like this to include on the list.

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Speaker 1: It alone almost erases all the heartache that we've otherwise

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Speaker 1: seen in the Opu trilogy up to this point, and

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Speaker 1: it does involve the first days of a young married couple.

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Speaker 1: So of who here is a young man played by

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Speaker 1: Sumitra Chatterjee and at the start of the film we

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Speaker 1: see him fall into this hastily arranged marriage to a

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Speaker 1: wealthy young woman named Aparna played by Charmila Tagore. So

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Speaker 1: after the wedding, they go back to his dumpy apartment

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Speaker 1: in Calcutta and there's a bit of a rough start

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Speaker 1: for a while, but they soon find themselves to be

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Speaker 1: perfectly matched and Ray captures this in just a lovely

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Speaker 1: montage of barebones domestic bliss. They're feeding each other, they're

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Speaker 1: fanning each other other, they barely are able to look

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Speaker 1: at anything other than each other. And so the truth

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Speaker 1: that Sansar gets about marriage is a good one and

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Speaker 1: a positive one. On your best days, it can feel

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Speaker 1: like you're the only two people in the world. And

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Speaker 1: romantic comedies try to capture that, but I can't think

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Speaker 1: of any that really get that feeling quite as well

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Speaker 1: as a poor Sansar. So that is my number five

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Speaker 1: violation or not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to this top five list first. You

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Speaker 2: pointed out your list in our slack over the weekend,

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Speaker 2: and I was very angry with you because you had

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Speaker 2: a couple choices that would have been strong contenders for me.

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Speaker 2: I hadn't started formulating my list yet, and I'd completely

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Speaker 2: forgotten about the Pantheon and just thought, how am I

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Speaker 2: going to do this list without the world of Opu.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's not just one of my favorite movies

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Speaker 2: about marriage, it's one of my favorite movies ever. But

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Speaker 2: I'm going to let you have it. And as you said,

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Speaker 2: it makes it easier when Rey made at least one

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Speaker 2: other masterpiece about marriage. We will get to that in

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Speaker 2: a little bit. I think I was in a similar

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Speaker 2: frame of mind as you, Josh, with my number five.

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Speaker 2: I wanted at least one film that was going to

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Speaker 2: be a little bit lighter, a little bit more joyful,

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Speaker 2: and my pick is The Thin Man from nineteen thirty four,

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Speaker 2: Nick and Nora Charles, the couple. It was part of

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Speaker 2: our Screwball Comedy marathon back in two thousand and six.

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Speaker 2: And it's funny because I had to do the setup

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Speaker 2: for Sam at the time for that review, and I

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Speaker 2: noted that it was a popular choice among listeners in

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Speaker 2: connection to the top five drinking movies we did on

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Speaker 2: episode eighty six. But it also would have been a

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Speaker 2: good candidate for Top five screen Duos, which we did

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Speaker 2: on episode twenty two. A case could even be made

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Speaker 2: that Nick Charles belong on the list we did on

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Speaker 2: episode thirty four, which was our top five Badasses, And

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Speaker 2: now I wonder, well, why can't I put Nora Charles

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Speaker 2: on the badass list? Doesn't have to be just Nick,

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Speaker 2: She's a badass herself. And finally, it could have been

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Speaker 2: on our Top five movies about marriage on episode twenty eight,

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Speaker 2: and I actually asked Sam how bad he felt about

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Speaker 2: having I seen this movie before forming all these lists.

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Speaker 2: It turned out we both were big fans of this film,

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Speaker 2: and this is my shot to revise history. I guess

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Speaker 2: I did focus for the rest of my picks on

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Speaker 2: movies that are about marriage, and this is a detective story.

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Speaker 2: But when you think about The Thin Man, do you

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Speaker 2: really think about the detective story, which is about a

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Speaker 2: missing inventor and this husband and wife team that almost

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Speaker 2: get killed trying to find him. No, you think about

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Speaker 2: the relationship. You think about Nick and Nora Charles, and

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Speaker 2: you think about them equally. And that's the key nuance

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Speaker 2: here was this notion of equality in a relationship, true equality,

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Speaker 2: and alchemy, that sense of chemistry, that intangible thing where

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Speaker 2: you have two people who come together and become true partners,

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Speaker 2: and of course they're partners in trying to solve this

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Speaker 2: case as well. But every other choice on my list, Josh,

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Speaker 2: you're going to see films that deal with the harsher

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Speaker 2: realities of even semi or mostly successful marriages, the complexities

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Speaker 2: of human relationships that also are personal contracts. And I

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Speaker 2: did want one that was just full blown fun, but

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Speaker 2: also showcased an ideal marriage, even if it's a full

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Speaker 2: blown fantasy, which I do think is what we get

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Speaker 2: here with William Powell and Myrna loy as Nick and Nora.

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Speaker 2: Two of my favorite lines from this film that get

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Speaker 2: at the core of what I love about their relationship

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Speaker 2: early in the film. I think it's maybe in that

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Speaker 2: opening scene. Nora shows up and says, how many drinks

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Speaker 2: have you had? And he says, this will make six martinis?

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Speaker 2: And she turns to the waiter and says, all right,

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Speaker 2: will you bring me five more martinis? Leo, line them

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Speaker 2: up right here. If that's what he's having, that's what

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Speaker 2: she's going to have, by God too. And then later

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Speaker 2: they're talking to a lieutenant who says, you've got a

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Speaker 2: pistol permit? Nick says no. He says, ever heard of

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Speaker 2: the soul of an act? And Nora says, Oh, that's

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Speaker 2: all right, we're married. I mean, that's that screwball comedy

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Speaker 2: banter that makes these films, and this in particular, such

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Speaker 2: a treat. I actually came across an article from September

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Speaker 2: twenty eleven in the National Post, the Canadian newspaper. I

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Speaker 2: don't know what the point of the article was, honestly,

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Speaker 2: even after reading it, but it was about Nick and

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Speaker 2: Nora Charles, and it was called Nick and Nora's Infinite Marriage.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not shocked at all to find, at least

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Speaker 2: according to this article, that people were so convinced fans

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Speaker 2: of these films were so convinced that William Powell and

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Speaker 2: Myrna Loy were really a couple, that they were sure

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Speaker 2: that they were married in real life, that they had

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Speaker 2: to be in a relationship with each other. And it

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Speaker 2: turns out, of course that it was a purely professional relationship.

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Speaker 2: So that's the reality. They weren't really a couple at all.

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Speaker 2: The movie gives us the fantasy version of marriage, and

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Speaker 2: that's what I love about the thin men.

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Speaker 3: Pretty goodl Yeah, she's a very nice type. You got types.

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Speaker 1: Only you do Lankeybernet's with wicked jaws. So it sounds

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Speaker 1: like those were our Sonny picks and it's time to

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Speaker 1: move into choppier waters. Yeah, number four, I have away

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Speaker 1: from her, and every year that I get older, the

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Speaker 1: more astonished I am at just the wisdom that Sarah

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Speaker 1: Polly showed in her writing directing debut. I think she

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Speaker 1: was aged twenty seven at this point, and it is

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Speaker 1: true she's adapting here a great short story by Alice Munro,

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Speaker 1: The Bear Came Over the Mountain, and she's also working

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Speaker 1: with two seasoned actors, Julie Christie and Gordon Pinset. But

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Speaker 1: still this is a film of deep knowingness from someone

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Speaker 1: who you would still think had a lot to experience.

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Speaker 1: Yet Christian Pinsett play a couple who's forty five year

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Speaker 1: marriage has settled into a comfortable and tender intimacy despite

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Speaker 1: certain troubles we learn about that they did endure in

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Speaker 1: the past. Then Fiona, the wife, begins to show symptoms

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Speaker 1: of Alzheimer's disease, and in addition just to the medical challenges,

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Speaker 1: these troubles also revisit in disturbing new ways and just

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Speaker 1: up end what the two of them thought was this

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Speaker 1: settled life that they had together. Now, this did make

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Speaker 1: my list of top five female directed debuts in November

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Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, So if you want to hear more on

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Speaker 1: the film itself, that's episode six fifty seven. But the

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Speaker 1: truth that this movie gets at for this list, and

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Speaker 1: again it's one that was corralled by a twenty something

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Speaker 1: who's working with great material and collaborators. The truth is

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Speaker 1: that marriage is never going to get easy. You're not

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Speaker 1: going to get to that point. It might, in fact

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Speaker 1: be the hardest thing you ever do. Yet part of

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Speaker 1: what it means to be married is to keep doing

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Speaker 1: that work all the way through to the end. Underneath

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Speaker 1: all the complications that away from her captures, there are

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Speaker 1: past betrayals, there's the disease, there's aging itself, it still

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Speaker 1: recognizes this truth. I think, especially near the end, after

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Speaker 1: Fiona has moved into a memory care facility and she

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Speaker 1: begins to drift further and further away from Grant, there's

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Speaker 1: a sequence where there's this one moment of awful but

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Speaker 1: at the same time sort of wonderful clarity.

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Speaker 3: You could have just driven away, just driven away with

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Speaker 3: lot of care in the world, and forsook me, forsooking me,

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Speaker 3: forsake not a chance.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure we played that clip before, but I

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Speaker 1: wish I hadn't, because it's really even more fitting for

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Speaker 1: this list, and it's always worth hearing Christy's delivery there

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Speaker 1: so away from her my number four, don't wait for

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Speaker 1: marriage to get easy. I don't know that day ever comes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a great pick. I love that film

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Speaker 2: and I love those performances. My number four, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: be very brief here because it's a film that, even

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Speaker 2: though it came out in twenty fourteen, I still feel

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Speaker 2: like not enough people have seen and to get into

303
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Speaker 2: the weeds too much on it would really ruin the experience.

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Speaker 2: And maybe after listening to this top five list, people

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Speaker 2: will be curious to check out this film. I think

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Speaker 2: it was the debut film from director Charlie McDowell, and

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Speaker 2: I know that I like this movie more than you did,

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Speaker 2: though I feel like you were favorable on a tip.

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Speaker 2: So I love what I love from Yeah, as I said.

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Speaker 2: Twenty fourteen, starring Mark Duplas and Elizabeth Moss as a

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Speaker 2: couple who are going through a rough patch. They're kind

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Speaker 2: of trying to recapture some of their past glory and

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Speaker 2: they're more passionate times, and they're seeing a therapist who's

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Speaker 2: played by Ted Danson, and he suggests they go to

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Speaker 2: this weekend get away and have some fun, hopefully and

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Speaker 2: maybe reignite this passion that has gone a little bit dormant.

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Speaker 2: And here's the truth, I'm really not going to say

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Speaker 2: more than that. That's the basic plot. That's all you

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Speaker 2: need to go going in. They go to the house

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Speaker 2: and some really strange things start to happen.

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Speaker 5: That was a little bit of a weird fight last night.

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Speaker 5: I know, I don't really understand what happened, but I

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Speaker 5: feel like maybe we just talk it up to like

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Speaker 5: some bad pot alcohol combo, put it behind us and

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Speaker 5: not let it ruin The trip read totally cool. That

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Speaker 5: being said, it was one.

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Speaker 1: Of the weirder fights we've had, Like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I know, crazy right.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I still don't fully understand whether you were

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Speaker 5: so drunk in stone that you thought we had sex,

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Speaker 5: or were you just making a joke.

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Speaker 2: And it backfired.

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Speaker 5: Honestly, I think it was just one of those things,

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Speaker 5: you know, one of those things.

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Speaker 2: And when you come out of that film. I said

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Speaker 2: this when we talked about it on the show. I

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Speaker 2: said it in my letterbox review at the time. If

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Speaker 2: you watch that film with your significant other, as I did,

339
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Speaker 2: whether you're married or not, if you've been together for

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Speaker 2: any amount of time, I imagine that the person you watch

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00:17:59,805 --> 00:18:01,725
Speaker 2: it with will turn to you, just as my wife did,

342
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Speaker 2: and say, Okay, so what's the best version of me.

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Speaker 2: They will ask that question or some form of that

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Speaker 2: question after seeing this film. And I could probably give

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00:18:14,685 --> 00:18:17,205
Speaker 2: you the advice to not take the bait and don't

346
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Speaker 2: answer that question. But if you want to have a

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Speaker 2: really I suppose honest and interesting conversation with your spouse,

348
00:18:23,045 --> 00:18:25,525
Speaker 2: you could try to answer that question. Because the truth there,

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Speaker 2: the fundamental truth there is no matter how happy your

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Speaker 2: marriage is, no matter how much you do genuinely love

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Speaker 2: that other person, there are going to be imperfections. There

352
00:18:36,765 --> 00:18:39,405
Speaker 2: are going to be quote unquote flaws. There are going

353
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Speaker 2: to be things that you probably wish you could change

354
00:18:42,845 --> 00:18:46,045
Speaker 2: about them. You may discover new ones as you go

355
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Speaker 2: through the marriage. And whether or not you ever feel

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Speaker 2: like those are things you need to bring out into

357
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Speaker 2: the open or those are things that are forced out

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Speaker 2: into the open, that's different for every couple. That might

359
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Speaker 2: be just a secret that you take to your grave.

360
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Speaker 2: But in this case, The One I Love, it's a

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Speaker 2: film that really forces you to not only I would say, Josh,

362
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Speaker 2: think about it in terms of your spouse, but think

363
00:19:08,125 --> 00:19:10,645
Speaker 2: about it I think the way Sarah did. Which if

364
00:19:10,725 --> 00:19:13,005
Speaker 2: you're really connecting with the material the way I did,

365
00:19:13,285 --> 00:19:16,245
Speaker 2: you're not going, Wow, what would I change about Sarah?

366
00:19:16,285 --> 00:19:19,484
Speaker 2: I'm going, what would Sarah change about me? What should

367
00:19:19,525 --> 00:19:21,485
Speaker 2: Sarah want to change about me? How do I need

368
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Speaker 2: to be better? So the one I love maybe a

369
00:19:24,205 --> 00:19:26,325
Speaker 2: little bit of a surprise choice here, But a movie

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Speaker 2: at least on this topic of marriage I found pretty profound.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, overall I didn't go for the movie, but I

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Speaker 1: did note that it gets out of truth very similar

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Speaker 1: to what you were just saying. Basically, the gap between

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Speaker 1: the spouse we want to be in the spouse we

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00:19:38,085 --> 00:19:40,925
Speaker 1: are that it can feel huge, right, So I do

376
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Speaker 1: think the movie touches on that for sure. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: we are up to number three. If marriage, as I

378
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Speaker 1: said with Away from Her is never going to get easy,

379
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Speaker 1: if it's going to be a series of ups and downs,

380
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Speaker 1: then the good ones are going to have to involve reconciliation.

381
00:19:55,445 --> 00:19:57,845
Speaker 1: And one of the most delightful movies about a married

382
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Speaker 1: couple making up is nineteen thirty seven's The Awful Truth.

383
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Speaker 1: This stars Carry Grant and Irene Done as Jerry and

384
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Speaker 1: Lucy Warrener, a husband and wife who, like the couple

385
00:20:07,765 --> 00:20:10,685
Speaker 1: we meet in Marriage Story, are in the process of divorce.

386
00:20:11,125 --> 00:20:13,205
Speaker 1: There are essentially two movies going on here. There's the

387
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Speaker 1: one where Lucy and Jerry are trying to find new

388
00:20:15,605 --> 00:20:21,405
Speaker 1: partners while simultaneously sabotaging each other's efforts at romance. And

389
00:20:21,445 --> 00:20:24,085
Speaker 1: then there's the one where Lucy and Jerry continue to

390
00:20:24,165 --> 00:20:28,805
Speaker 1: share glances, inside jokes, instinctual smiles before they remember they're

391
00:20:28,805 --> 00:20:31,165
Speaker 1: not supposed to be smiling at each other. Basically, no

392
00:20:31,205 --> 00:20:33,805
Speaker 1: matter who else is around, they're always the most compatible

393
00:20:33,845 --> 00:20:37,005
Speaker 1: couple in the room. Now, the director Leo McCarey, he

394
00:20:37,125 --> 00:20:40,285
Speaker 1: stages a really brilliant comic sequence near the end that

395
00:20:40,325 --> 00:20:42,645
Speaker 1: I wanted to highlight and why I wanted to put

396
00:20:42,645 --> 00:20:44,445
Speaker 1: this on the list. This is when Lucy and Jerry,

397
00:20:44,445 --> 00:20:46,965
Speaker 1: for these really convoluted plot reasons, they have to stay

398
00:20:47,005 --> 00:20:50,045
Speaker 1: in the same country house in adjoining rooms on the

399
00:20:50,205 --> 00:20:53,525
Speaker 1: night that their divorce will be finalized at midnight. Once

400
00:20:53,565 --> 00:20:56,005
Speaker 1: they're settled in their beds, the door between these two

401
00:20:56,085 --> 00:20:58,725
Speaker 1: rooms it keeps opening like the wind does it. And

402
00:20:58,765 --> 00:21:01,005
Speaker 1: then there's this cat All sorts of stuff comes into play,

403
00:21:01,045 --> 00:21:02,965
Speaker 1: and each time it happens, they have a clear sight

404
00:21:03,045 --> 00:21:05,165
Speaker 1: line of the other person just sitting there in their bed.

405
00:21:05,605 --> 00:21:07,845
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of comic business about this where

406
00:21:07,845 --> 00:21:11,005
Speaker 1: they try and fail to keep the door closed. Eventually

407
00:21:11,485 --> 00:21:14,765
Speaker 1: they just realize they're going to have to connect with

408
00:21:14,805 --> 00:21:17,645
Speaker 1: each other on some level, and this leads to here's

409
00:21:17,685 --> 00:21:21,845
Speaker 1: another speaking of thin man, great screwball exchange that hints

410
00:21:22,205 --> 00:21:23,125
Speaker 1: at reconciliation.

411
00:21:23,805 --> 00:21:28,565
Speaker 3: You're all confused, don't you, aren't you?

412
00:21:28,605 --> 00:21:32,045
Speaker 6: No, well it should because you're wrong about things being different,

413
00:21:32,045 --> 00:21:35,645
Speaker 6: because they're not the same. Things aren't different except in

414
00:21:35,645 --> 00:21:39,285
Speaker 6: a different way. You are still the same. Only I've

415
00:21:39,285 --> 00:21:43,285
Speaker 6: been a fool, but I'm not now so long as

416
00:21:43,285 --> 00:21:45,765
Speaker 6: I'm different, don't you think that, well, maybe things could

417
00:21:45,805 --> 00:21:49,565
Speaker 6: be the same again, only a little different. Huh you

418
00:21:49,645 --> 00:21:49,965
Speaker 6: mean that?

419
00:21:50,125 --> 00:21:53,605
Speaker 1: Jerry Vina del Mayer doing the screenplay there, she's adapting

420
00:21:53,605 --> 00:21:57,485
Speaker 1: a play by Arthur Richmond, And basically the simple truth

421
00:21:57,525 --> 00:22:01,245
Speaker 1: here marriage means making up in a way. Marriage doesn't

422
00:22:01,245 --> 00:22:05,165
Speaker 1: become a marriage until you've you know, hit brokenness of

423
00:22:05,205 --> 00:22:08,605
Speaker 1: some kind and have, by some grace, been able to

424
00:22:08,605 --> 00:22:11,005
Speaker 1: make it to the other side. I think the awful

425
00:22:11,085 --> 00:22:16,285
Speaker 1: truth is this great farce about somewhat begrudgingly making it

426
00:22:16,325 --> 00:22:20,685
Speaker 1: to the other side, and these two being surprised to

427
00:22:20,685 --> 00:22:25,325
Speaker 1: find themselves there, but also just really sort of overjoyed

428
00:22:25,405 --> 00:22:26,845
Speaker 1: with it as well, So I guess you could see

429
00:22:26,845 --> 00:22:28,165
Speaker 1: this as a positive pick for sure.

430
00:22:28,245 --> 00:22:31,245
Speaker 2: Yeah, no good pick. A movie that was also part

431
00:22:31,285 --> 00:22:33,965
Speaker 2: of our Screwball Comedy Marathon back in two thousand and six.

432
00:22:34,245 --> 00:22:37,005
Speaker 2: My number three choice would be a great pairing with

433
00:22:37,245 --> 00:22:41,165
Speaker 2: your number four. You talk about a couple that hopes

434
00:22:41,405 --> 00:22:45,725
Speaker 2: or imagines that they are absolutely in that settling part

435
00:22:45,805 --> 00:22:48,885
Speaker 2: of their marriage, where their life is what it is

436
00:22:49,085 --> 00:22:52,845
Speaker 2: and it is joyful enough, and they believe there is

437
00:22:52,885 --> 00:22:55,925
Speaker 2: a firm foundation and that foundation gets rocked a little

438
00:22:55,925 --> 00:22:57,925
Speaker 2: bit by a revelation. It's the movie that was my

439
00:22:58,005 --> 00:23:01,605
Speaker 2: number three film of twenty fifteen, Andrew Haig's forty five Years,

440
00:23:02,285 --> 00:23:04,565
Speaker 2: and I'm sure this was discussed by people who talked

441
00:23:04,565 --> 00:23:06,725
Speaker 2: about the movie at the time. It's fascinating to see

442
00:23:06,725 --> 00:23:09,125
Speaker 2: this for what it was, which was a follow up

443
00:23:09,165 --> 00:23:11,245
Speaker 2: to his debut film, a movie we liked a lot

444
00:23:11,325 --> 00:23:14,805
Speaker 2: called Weekend, which was about two gay men who meet

445
00:23:14,885 --> 00:23:17,965
Speaker 2: and have this kind of fling in this connection and

446
00:23:18,005 --> 00:23:20,445
Speaker 2: then they go their separate ways. It's a relationship that

447
00:23:20,485 --> 00:23:23,045
Speaker 2: never gets to have a history, at least a history

448
00:23:23,045 --> 00:23:25,245
Speaker 2: that we're going to see. And then we come to

449
00:23:25,245 --> 00:23:27,845
Speaker 2: forty five years a movie that is all about that

450
00:23:28,005 --> 00:23:32,645
Speaker 2: history and the truth. For me that it really showcases

451
00:23:33,125 --> 00:23:36,405
Speaker 2: is the way a marriage can have that kind of

452
00:23:36,565 --> 00:23:40,245
Speaker 2: quiet comfort the two people can have together, but they're

453
00:23:40,325 --> 00:23:45,965
Speaker 2: being some cracks and cracks that can potentially develop into fractures.

454
00:23:45,965 --> 00:23:48,245
Speaker 2: And it's not by accident that I use words like

455
00:23:48,405 --> 00:23:53,245
Speaker 2: crack and fracture, because that's kind of integral to the plot.

456
00:23:53,285 --> 00:23:56,485
Speaker 2: You've got Charlotte ramplaying and Tom Courtney as the husband

457
00:23:56,845 --> 00:23:59,125
Speaker 2: and wife, and they are supposed to be celebrating their

458
00:23:59,125 --> 00:24:03,725
Speaker 2: forty fifth wedding anniversary when a letter arrives that says

459
00:24:03,765 --> 00:24:06,445
Speaker 2: a body has been found from his past from over

460
00:24:06,485 --> 00:24:09,085
Speaker 2: forty five years ago, the woman that he was madly

461
00:24:09,125 --> 00:24:12,725
Speaker 2: in love with before he met his wife, Kate, and

462
00:24:13,045 --> 00:24:17,445
Speaker 2: they were on a trip together, hiking somewhere and she

463
00:24:17,645 --> 00:24:23,245
Speaker 2: fell between a glacier and obviously her body was never found.

464
00:24:23,605 --> 00:24:26,605
Speaker 2: They have now recovered it, and just that body. It's

465
00:24:26,605 --> 00:24:29,325
Speaker 2: almost honestly like a ghost story in a way, where

466
00:24:29,325 --> 00:24:32,245
Speaker 2: now this body comes up and hurts them right and

467
00:24:32,445 --> 00:24:35,805
Speaker 2: they have to relive and revisit some choices that were

468
00:24:35,845 --> 00:24:38,885
Speaker 2: made before they even knew each other, and then things

469
00:24:38,885 --> 00:24:42,445
Speaker 2: that are sort of kept secret throughout their marriage. There

470
00:24:42,445 --> 00:24:45,365
Speaker 2: are a number of devastating scenes in this movie. At

471
00:24:45,405 --> 00:24:47,405
Speaker 2: our End of the Year Rap party, I talked about

472
00:24:47,605 --> 00:24:50,045
Speaker 2: a slideshow scene in the Attic that I thought was

473
00:24:50,205 --> 00:24:52,445
Speaker 2: a Scene of the Year candidate, a music moment from

474
00:24:52,485 --> 00:24:55,325
Speaker 2: the end of the film. Hey takes a very subtle

475
00:24:55,365 --> 00:24:58,525
Speaker 2: approach here. It's a two hander. It's these two people

476
00:24:58,805 --> 00:25:00,685
Speaker 2: doing a lot of talking, and doing a lot of

477
00:25:00,685 --> 00:25:04,325
Speaker 2: talking within the space of this home that they have

478
00:25:04,445 --> 00:25:06,605
Speaker 2: made together. You get a lot of kind of simple,

479
00:25:06,765 --> 00:25:09,565
Speaker 2: longer takes lingering with this couple. But there is josh

480
00:25:09,685 --> 00:25:13,005
Speaker 2: one cut in it that really floors me. It's when

481
00:25:13,005 --> 00:25:15,925
Speaker 2: they're in the living room. They're sitting down separate parts

482
00:25:15,925 --> 00:25:18,925
Speaker 2: of the room and she's reading and he comes and

483
00:25:19,005 --> 00:25:21,525
Speaker 2: kind of curiously sits down right next to her, and

484
00:25:21,565 --> 00:25:25,205
Speaker 2: Tom Courtney looks at her very hard for a second,

485
00:25:25,245 --> 00:25:28,245
Speaker 2: and she says, what is it? And he clearly has

486
00:25:28,245 --> 00:25:32,165
Speaker 2: something to say, and he says that he doesn't. And

487
00:25:32,205 --> 00:25:34,285
Speaker 2: then you hear his voice, even though his mouth isn't moving.

488
00:25:34,285 --> 00:25:36,325
Speaker 2: You hear his voice say there's something I want to

489
00:25:36,365 --> 00:25:40,165
Speaker 2: tell you. And we're seeing them in profile. He's clearly

490
00:25:40,205 --> 00:25:42,244
Speaker 2: not talking. We hear that voice. It turns out that

491
00:25:42,285 --> 00:25:45,365
Speaker 2: we then cut to another angle, and that audio is

492
00:25:45,445 --> 00:25:50,525
Speaker 2: just a bridge to him finally starting to say whatever

493
00:25:50,565 --> 00:25:52,205
Speaker 2: it is he had to say. You don't know in

494
00:25:52,245 --> 00:25:54,645
Speaker 2: that moment how much time has actually passed. Have they

495
00:25:54,685 --> 00:25:57,725
Speaker 2: been sitting there for ten seconds together, or ten minutes

496
00:25:58,405 --> 00:26:01,885
Speaker 2: or an hour? You really don't know how long it

497
00:26:01,925 --> 00:26:04,165
Speaker 2: took him to kind of build up the courage to

498
00:26:04,245 --> 00:26:06,285
Speaker 2: finally say what he has to say.

499
00:26:06,645 --> 00:26:07,845
Speaker 5: That's something I want to tell you.

500
00:26:08,405 --> 00:26:14,085
Speaker 6: Okay, you know, I feel sure I've told you before,

501
00:26:14,165 --> 00:26:17,325
Speaker 6: but it was a long time ago, so I could

502
00:26:17,325 --> 00:26:24,965
Speaker 6: be wrong. Okay, go on, Yeah, I was her next

503
00:26:24,965 --> 00:26:25,325
Speaker 6: of kin?

504
00:26:26,125 --> 00:26:26,885
Speaker 3: What do you mean.

505
00:26:28,325 --> 00:26:31,325
Speaker 6: Officially I was her next of kin?

506
00:26:31,445 --> 00:26:34,605
Speaker 3: I'm sure, I but I think I remember her husband

507
00:26:34,885 --> 00:26:36,445
Speaker 3: being another woman's next of kin.

508
00:26:38,365 --> 00:26:40,285
Speaker 6: Why why?

509
00:26:40,365 --> 00:26:42,205
Speaker 3: What? Why were you her next of kin?

510
00:26:43,125 --> 00:26:44,765
Speaker 2: Because they thought we were married?

511
00:26:45,405 --> 00:26:47,965
Speaker 3: Who did the authorities? People?

512
00:26:48,605 --> 00:26:51,045
Speaker 6: What made them think that we told them we.

513
00:26:50,885 --> 00:26:55,285
Speaker 2: Were There's something about that really efficient use of ellipses

514
00:26:55,285 --> 00:26:58,205
Speaker 2: there that seems so appropriate to the film, which, as

515
00:26:58,365 --> 00:27:00,965
Speaker 2: I said, is about the past encroaching on the present

516
00:27:01,045 --> 00:27:05,325
Speaker 2: and possibly affecting their future. And another true moment there

517
00:27:05,325 --> 00:27:09,045
Speaker 2: in any relationship, there being some secret there being something

518
00:27:09,085 --> 00:27:11,605
Speaker 2: that one person doesn't want to tell the other person

519
00:27:11,645 --> 00:27:15,005
Speaker 2: but knows they really have to, and they don't want

520
00:27:15,045 --> 00:27:17,325
Speaker 2: to do it under the guise of wanting to protect

521
00:27:17,365 --> 00:27:20,925
Speaker 2: her when really selfishly you're protecting yourself, which is why

522
00:27:21,085 --> 00:27:23,525
Speaker 2: he's doing there, I think. And these are the type

523
00:27:23,565 --> 00:27:27,725
Speaker 2: of dramas that are playing out in households everywhere, every

524
00:27:27,805 --> 00:27:29,365
Speaker 2: day and will forever.

525
00:27:29,725 --> 00:27:32,045
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, that would make a really great pairing

526
00:27:32,085 --> 00:27:34,725
Speaker 1: with away from her, just the way it recognizes this

527
00:27:34,805 --> 00:27:38,045
Speaker 1: sort of tranquil domesticity should never be taken for granted.

528
00:27:38,685 --> 00:27:42,205
Speaker 1: That's maybe when those cracks start to turn into fault

529
00:27:42,205 --> 00:27:46,405
Speaker 1: lines or something bigger. Okay, I'm at number two on

530
00:27:46,445 --> 00:27:48,405
Speaker 1: my list. I won't spend a lot of time on

531
00:27:48,405 --> 00:27:51,045
Speaker 1: this because I did go with Eyes Wide Shut, which

532
00:27:51,085 --> 00:27:53,125
Speaker 1: we just spent so much time talking about as part

533
00:27:53,165 --> 00:27:56,485
Speaker 1: of our nine from ninety nine series. I wouldn't say

534
00:27:56,485 --> 00:27:59,765
Speaker 1: this movie is anti marriage, but it's in a lot

535
00:27:59,765 --> 00:28:02,285
Speaker 1: of ways it's pro marriage, but it's certainly the movie

536
00:28:02,325 --> 00:28:05,845
Speaker 1: that's honest about the difficulties of marriage and the reality

537
00:28:05,885 --> 00:28:09,205
Speaker 1: that marriages fail for all sorts of reasons, that sometimes

538
00:28:09,285 --> 00:28:12,325
Speaker 1: the right call might be the hard one of deciding

539
00:28:12,325 --> 00:28:15,205
Speaker 1: not to stay together the couple here, of course, Bill

540
00:28:15,245 --> 00:28:18,005
Speaker 1: and Alice, Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman. They really find themselves

541
00:28:18,085 --> 00:28:20,645
Speaker 1: at this point early on in the film. It's the

542
00:28:21,205 --> 00:28:23,245
Speaker 1: kicks off the entire rest of the movie, this late

543
00:28:23,325 --> 00:28:26,205
Speaker 1: night conversation that threatens to peel away some of the

544
00:28:26,245 --> 00:28:29,045
Speaker 1: masks that they've been wearing for each other. So this

545
00:28:29,205 --> 00:28:31,405
Speaker 1: is you know, they're at this point, well before Bill

546
00:28:31,445 --> 00:28:33,685
Speaker 1: throws a fit and decides to go sneak into a

547
00:28:33,725 --> 00:28:37,645
Speaker 1: creepy sex party, they have some issues. Fair to say, now,

548
00:28:37,685 --> 00:28:41,245
Speaker 1: you might point out that after all this craziness, Bill

549
00:28:41,245 --> 00:28:43,965
Speaker 1: and Alice still seem to be moving themselves towards some

550
00:28:44,005 --> 00:28:46,085
Speaker 1: sort of reconciliation by the end of the film. I

551
00:28:46,085 --> 00:28:49,365
Speaker 1: think that's true. But as I noted in our review,

552
00:28:49,525 --> 00:28:51,565
Speaker 1: and we did spend a lot of time talking about

553
00:28:51,565 --> 00:28:55,085
Speaker 1: marriage in that review, it's worth noting if listeners haven't

554
00:28:55,165 --> 00:28:57,525
Speaker 1: checked that out yet. But as I noted, there is

555
00:28:57,565 --> 00:28:59,085
Speaker 1: that they've still got a lot of work to do

556
00:28:59,845 --> 00:29:02,365
Speaker 1: at that toy store. In that final scene when they

557
00:29:02,405 --> 00:29:06,165
Speaker 1: get home, the reality is they might not make it.

558
00:29:06,445 --> 00:29:09,525
Speaker 1: I mean, my instinct coming out of eyes wide shut

559
00:29:09,565 --> 00:29:12,725
Speaker 1: is who you know you breathe a sigh of relief.

560
00:29:12,805 --> 00:29:15,885
Speaker 1: But the more you think about it and realize what

561
00:29:15,965 --> 00:29:18,325
Speaker 1: they have ahead of them and where they're at, I

562
00:29:18,325 --> 00:29:20,445
Speaker 1: mean that this is a downer pick in a lot

563
00:29:20,445 --> 00:29:22,285
Speaker 1: of ways because the truth is that you might not

564
00:29:22,525 --> 00:29:26,445
Speaker 1: make it. It's just see, it's just a sad reality.

565
00:29:26,525 --> 00:29:29,205
Speaker 2: I totally get that reading or suggesting that it could

566
00:29:29,205 --> 00:29:31,165
Speaker 2: be read that way, and I see it so much

567
00:29:31,165 --> 00:29:34,605
Speaker 2: more hopeful. I see it as they finally comes through it.

568
00:29:34,925 --> 00:29:36,805
Speaker 2: They finally come through it, and now that they have

569
00:29:36,885 --> 00:29:41,925
Speaker 2: been forced to confront reality, actual reality, the honesty of

570
00:29:42,765 --> 00:29:46,725
Speaker 2: each person's viewpoint and I suppose mindset of their marriage,

571
00:29:46,805 --> 00:29:48,405
Speaker 2: I think it's going to lead them to better things.

572
00:29:48,485 --> 00:29:51,645
Speaker 1: That's my hope. They're definitely in a better place for sure,

573
00:29:52,125 --> 00:29:53,045
Speaker 1: still got a ways to go.

574
00:29:53,325 --> 00:29:57,605
Speaker 2: Yeah, So my number two does go back to Saturate Ray.

575
00:29:57,805 --> 00:30:00,525
Speaker 2: You mentioned the film It Is the Big City from

576
00:30:00,845 --> 00:30:04,685
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three. I love this film. What a great filmmaker,

577
00:30:04,845 --> 00:30:08,325
Speaker 2: and the truth of marriage that we're seeing explored here,

578
00:30:08,365 --> 00:30:11,285
Speaker 2: I think is what can happen, the upheaval and the

579
00:30:11,285 --> 00:30:14,045
Speaker 2: angst that can happen when you have a marriage that's

580
00:30:14,085 --> 00:30:20,325
Speaker 2: in transition, when one partner decides to break from their

581
00:30:20,725 --> 00:30:24,245
Speaker 2: a signed role in the relationship and all the drama

582
00:30:24,405 --> 00:30:28,085
Speaker 2: that can unfold from that. This film stars Madabie Mukherjee

583
00:30:28,805 --> 00:30:33,165
Speaker 2: as Arati and her husband Subrata is played by Aneil Chatterjee.

584
00:30:33,605 --> 00:30:36,765
Speaker 2: And we talked about this a lot during our marathon

585
00:30:37,005 --> 00:30:42,085
Speaker 2: and this review. The movie forces us to think about

586
00:30:42,125 --> 00:30:45,205
Speaker 2: what her role, what Aretti's role is as a woman

587
00:30:45,685 --> 00:30:50,085
Speaker 2: in their household, within their marriage. She's a wife, she's

588
00:30:50,165 --> 00:30:52,965
Speaker 2: a mother, she's a daughter in law, she's a sister

589
00:30:53,045 --> 00:30:55,485
Speaker 2: in law. She's a housekeeper, she's a cook, she's a nurse.

590
00:30:55,685 --> 00:30:58,965
Speaker 2: She's all of these things. And we see the toll

591
00:30:59,125 --> 00:31:01,325
Speaker 2: that all of those roles take on her, and they

592
00:31:01,325 --> 00:31:05,325
Speaker 2: all have prescribed actions and needs that come with it.

593
00:31:05,725 --> 00:31:10,565
Speaker 2: And because of his struggles, her husband not making the

594
00:31:10,605 --> 00:31:13,685
Speaker 2: money that he should and they're having trouble making ends meet,

595
00:31:14,285 --> 00:31:17,765
Speaker 2: she discovers that she could work outside the home, that

596
00:31:17,885 --> 00:31:21,725
Speaker 2: she could go make some money as well, and she

597
00:31:21,845 --> 00:31:23,725
Speaker 2: does that. She goes to work as a saleswoman and

598
00:31:23,765 --> 00:31:26,325
Speaker 2: actually has some success. So now we see her take

599
00:31:26,365 --> 00:31:29,005
Speaker 2: on new roles as an employee, as a coworker, as

600
00:31:29,045 --> 00:31:32,045
Speaker 2: a friend, and actually a supervisor. And the big one

601
00:31:32,085 --> 00:31:35,765
Speaker 2: that causes so much trouble at home as the breadwinner,

602
00:31:35,765 --> 00:31:38,565
Speaker 2: and she's trying to navigate all these while also navigating

603
00:31:38,605 --> 00:31:41,325
Speaker 2: all those other roles. She can't just abandon them. And

604
00:31:41,405 --> 00:31:44,685
Speaker 2: these new ones don't have the history, the decades and

605
00:31:44,805 --> 00:31:50,285
Speaker 2: centuries of history that tell you what type of housewife

606
00:31:50,325 --> 00:31:53,005
Speaker 2: you're supposed to be in this culture, what type of

607
00:31:53,085 --> 00:31:55,965
Speaker 2: housekeeper or daughter in law you're supposed to be. She's

608
00:31:56,005 --> 00:31:59,565
Speaker 2: making all this up as she goes, which is both

609
00:32:00,005 --> 00:32:02,285
Speaker 2: what makes it so thrilling and what makes it so hard.

610
00:32:02,285 --> 00:32:05,485
Speaker 2: I mentioned she becomes the breadwinner. There's a scene where

611
00:32:05,565 --> 00:32:09,485
Speaker 2: she tells her husband that she's gotten a raise, and

612
00:32:09,605 --> 00:32:12,365
Speaker 2: at least the English translation that we get on screen

613
00:32:12,445 --> 00:32:15,885
Speaker 2: in the subtitles is great. The wife comes home a hero.

614
00:32:16,365 --> 00:32:18,805
Speaker 2: The husband's a zero. That's how he feels. He feels

615
00:32:18,845 --> 00:32:23,125
Speaker 2: completely worthless now because of her new role, and she's

616
00:32:23,205 --> 00:32:26,405
Speaker 2: enjoying her work. She is successful, and she's being useful

617
00:32:26,445 --> 00:32:28,725
Speaker 2: to the family and she loves that, and his kind

618
00:32:28,725 --> 00:32:32,245
Speaker 2: of self pity and despondency really does hurt her. And

619
00:32:32,565 --> 00:32:34,885
Speaker 2: there are a couple of scenes, Josh, that I know

620
00:32:34,965 --> 00:32:37,565
Speaker 2: you remember well from this movie that really get to

621
00:32:37,605 --> 00:32:39,845
Speaker 2: the heart of this, And it's a fairly early one

622
00:32:39,885 --> 00:32:42,085
Speaker 2: after coming home from the job, and she's just kind

623
00:32:42,085 --> 00:32:45,005
Speaker 2: of recounting her routine, the details of the job very

624
00:32:45,005 --> 00:32:49,285
Speaker 2: casually to her husband, and she says, you wouldn't recognize

625
00:32:49,325 --> 00:32:52,685
Speaker 2: me on the job, and that piques his interest, and

626
00:32:52,725 --> 00:32:55,605
Speaker 2: he says, what about at home? Would I recognize you

627
00:32:55,685 --> 00:33:00,365
Speaker 2: at home? And Mukherjee just what a performance? Yeah, very slyly,

628
00:33:00,525 --> 00:33:05,885
Speaker 2: almost sensually, slowly approaches him, enters the frame that's just

629
00:33:05,965 --> 00:33:09,805
Speaker 2: on his face, sharing that very close space with him.

630
00:33:09,965 --> 00:33:13,605
Speaker 2: It's a very intimate exchange and very close to him,

631
00:33:13,725 --> 00:33:17,045
Speaker 2: very quietly says you don't recognize me, and she brings

632
00:33:17,125 --> 00:33:19,445
Speaker 2: up the mole on her face that of course he knows.

633
00:33:19,685 --> 00:33:23,125
Speaker 2: And when he says that it feels all familiar, she

634
00:33:23,205 --> 00:33:25,405
Speaker 2: points out that she's still the same housewife. She does

635
00:33:25,485 --> 00:33:28,965
Speaker 2: reassure him here in that moment. Now, later when he's

636
00:33:29,005 --> 00:33:32,325
Speaker 2: found the lipstick that she has put on to go

637
00:33:32,445 --> 00:33:35,485
Speaker 2: out on her job as a saleswoman, something she's never

638
00:33:35,725 --> 00:33:39,245
Speaker 2: used before, he gets a jab in at her. He

639
00:33:39,245 --> 00:33:41,125
Speaker 2: doesn't even look at her as she's heading out the door.

640
00:33:41,165 --> 00:33:42,965
Speaker 2: He says, you're not going to put on your lipstick,

641
00:33:43,645 --> 00:33:46,485
Speaker 2: and this moment is so good. She throws the lipstick

642
00:33:46,485 --> 00:33:48,725
Speaker 2: out the window, she doesn't need it, and she says,

643
00:33:48,805 --> 00:33:52,005
Speaker 2: listen to me, do what you like, but please don't

644
00:33:52,005 --> 00:33:56,765
Speaker 2: misunderstand me, darling. So it's at once sensitive, it's a

645
00:33:56,805 --> 00:34:00,765
Speaker 2: plea to him, but it's emphatic and also defiant at

646
00:34:00,765 --> 00:34:03,405
Speaker 2: the same time. It's an order. It's her telling her husband,

647
00:34:03,765 --> 00:34:06,525
Speaker 2: don't misunderstand me. You can think what you want, but

648
00:34:06,685 --> 00:34:10,485
Speaker 2: don't ever question my feelings for you or my loyalty

649
00:34:10,525 --> 00:34:13,965
Speaker 2: to you and this family. Basically, don't ever do that again.

650
00:34:14,085 --> 00:34:16,964
Speaker 2: It's what she says to her husband. Here and rewatching

651
00:34:16,965 --> 00:34:19,485
Speaker 2: scenes from this It's available on the Criterion Channel. I

652
00:34:19,485 --> 00:34:21,685
Speaker 2: almost didn't stop. I almost didn't get this list done

653
00:34:21,725 --> 00:34:24,404
Speaker 2: just because I started rewatching the Big City. It's that good.

654
00:34:24,605 --> 00:34:27,085
Speaker 1: Yeah, that scene with a lipstick was my choice for

655
00:34:27,125 --> 00:34:29,725
Speaker 1: a most moving moment in the marathon, and I just

656
00:34:29,765 --> 00:34:32,645
Speaker 1: can't recommend that marathon highly enough. If we have relatively

657
00:34:32,685 --> 00:34:35,045
Speaker 1: new listeners who didn't have a chance to go through

658
00:34:35,085 --> 00:34:37,245
Speaker 1: those films with us, I think we probably both assumed

659
00:34:37,285 --> 00:34:40,365
Speaker 1: we were going to encounter a masterpiece with the Opou trilogy,

660
00:34:40,605 --> 00:34:42,525
Speaker 1: but we saw, you know, the Big City. I would

661
00:34:42,565 --> 00:34:45,605
Speaker 1: consider another one, and really almost every film in it

662
00:34:45,765 --> 00:34:49,485
Speaker 1: was just unbelievable. So I'm glad that we have two

663
00:34:49,525 --> 00:34:51,325
Speaker 1: ray I think it's very appropriate to have two ray

664
00:34:51,365 --> 00:34:54,805
Speaker 1: picks for this list. I'm at my number one, which

665
00:34:55,125 --> 00:34:58,765
Speaker 1: is Sunrise A Song of Two Humans. I'm going to

666
00:34:58,925 --> 00:35:02,565
Speaker 1: end with the best film to my mind on my list.

667
00:35:02,565 --> 00:35:04,765
Speaker 1: I mean, this one is on my list of the

668
00:35:04,765 --> 00:35:07,245
Speaker 1: best of all time, and it probably holds the simplest

669
00:35:07,245 --> 00:35:08,765
Speaker 1: truth for me. Date night.

670
00:35:09,005 --> 00:35:10,924
Speaker 2: You may want to kill your wife at some point

671
00:35:11,245 --> 00:35:12,085
Speaker 2: out where you're going.

672
00:35:12,325 --> 00:35:15,325
Speaker 1: Date night is always a good idea. Adam always a

673
00:35:15,365 --> 00:35:18,844
Speaker 1: good idea. This is F. W. Murnow's nineteen twenty seven

674
00:35:18,925 --> 00:35:22,205
Speaker 1: silent masterpiece, and yeah, it begins with a portrait of

675
00:35:22,285 --> 00:35:25,005
Speaker 1: marriage that's probably darker than Eyes Wide Shot. I would

676
00:35:25,045 --> 00:35:29,325
Speaker 1: say we have country man Georgie O'Brien persuaded by a

677
00:35:29,325 --> 00:35:32,525
Speaker 1: seductive city woman to murder his wife played by Oscar

678
00:35:32,565 --> 00:35:36,445
Speaker 1: winner Janet Gaynor spoiler alert. At the last minute, his

679
00:35:36,525 --> 00:35:39,605
Speaker 1: conscience gets the better of him. Rather than throw her

680
00:35:39,765 --> 00:35:42,325
Speaker 1: over the boat therein, he paddles across the lake to

681
00:35:42,405 --> 00:35:45,924
Speaker 1: the city, where his wife understandably flees, and then comes

682
00:35:45,925 --> 00:35:49,725
Speaker 1: the movie's miracle. After finding his wife again, he repeatedly

683
00:35:49,765 --> 00:35:52,765
Speaker 1: pleads for forgiveness as they walk around the city together.

684
00:35:53,285 --> 00:35:56,805
Speaker 1: Ever so slowly, she gives him another chance. There's this

685
00:35:56,885 --> 00:35:59,405
Speaker 1: point where they are walking together. They stop at a

686
00:35:59,485 --> 00:36:02,565
Speaker 1: church and they watch a wedding that's taking place, and

687
00:36:02,605 --> 00:36:06,245
Speaker 1: this causes the husband to tearfully renew his vows, and

688
00:36:06,365 --> 00:36:10,165
Speaker 1: Rnaw stages the sequence so brilliantly because he shifts things

689
00:36:10,245 --> 00:36:14,365
Speaker 1: so that the marriage ceremony taking place suddenly becomes their ceremony.

690
00:36:14,445 --> 00:36:14,605
Speaker 6: Right.

691
00:36:14,685 --> 00:36:17,845
Speaker 1: They emerge from the church just as the bells are ringing,

692
00:36:17,925 --> 00:36:21,005
Speaker 1: for example, And then what follows is this second honeymoon,

693
00:36:21,045 --> 00:36:23,125
Speaker 1: and essentially in the city as the husband and wife,

694
00:36:23,165 --> 00:36:26,565
Speaker 1: they celebrate their reunion by having their photograph taken, they

695
00:36:26,645 --> 00:36:29,404
Speaker 1: dance at a fair, and Urnow captures all of this

696
00:36:29,445 --> 00:36:32,404
Speaker 1: with a camera that's just radically free for its time.

697
00:36:32,445 --> 00:36:34,485
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really astonishing when you think about it

698
00:36:34,525 --> 00:36:39,485
Speaker 1: in the historical context. So, yeah, don't wait for attempted

699
00:36:39,565 --> 00:36:41,005
Speaker 1: murder to get you out of the house at them.

700
00:36:41,485 --> 00:36:43,125
Speaker 1: Go on a date night just for the heck of it.

701
00:36:44,125 --> 00:36:46,205
Speaker 1: Sunrise my number one movie about marriage.

702
00:36:46,205 --> 00:36:49,605
Speaker 2: It's an amazing film and it's one that I was

703
00:36:49,725 --> 00:36:52,125
Speaker 2: telling my wife was your number one as we were

704
00:36:52,205 --> 00:36:55,765
Speaker 2: driving home from marriage story, and she asked me what

705
00:36:55,805 --> 00:36:58,525
Speaker 2: it was about, and I gave her the synopsis to

706
00:36:58,565 --> 00:37:01,445
Speaker 2: my best friend, and she thinks you're a crazy person.

707
00:37:01,445 --> 00:37:03,525
Speaker 1: Did she get in touch with Debbie immediately? Like, are

708
00:37:03,525 --> 00:37:04,005
Speaker 1: you okay?

709
00:37:04,285 --> 00:37:09,085
Speaker 2: Maybe? All right? My number one? You had to know

710
00:37:09,165 --> 00:37:12,645
Speaker 2: it was coming. And here's my great indiscretion, Josh. I

711
00:37:12,725 --> 00:37:15,485
Speaker 2: was so ready to pounce on you. I was going

712
00:37:15,565 --> 00:37:17,645
Speaker 2: to pull out the whole Lebowski. This is not nom

713
00:37:17,765 --> 00:37:20,445
Speaker 2: There are rules. You can't be breaking the rules by

714
00:37:20,485 --> 00:37:24,525
Speaker 2: going with your movies for your list, even though I

715
00:37:24,685 --> 00:37:28,245
Speaker 2: was the last person to do it completely unintentionally, but

716
00:37:28,365 --> 00:37:30,205
Speaker 2: I put Apocalypse an how or something in the top

717
00:37:30,245 --> 00:37:32,805
Speaker 2: five forgetting it was in the pantheon maybe last year, right,

718
00:37:32,885 --> 00:37:36,325
Speaker 2: so I couldn't really give you grief without being a

719
00:37:36,325 --> 00:37:38,845
Speaker 2: total hypocrite. And then guess what I go and do.

720
00:37:39,565 --> 00:37:42,005
Speaker 2: I discover an hour or two before we sit down

721
00:37:42,045 --> 00:37:45,165
Speaker 2: to record that my Number one, of course, is also

722
00:37:45,245 --> 00:37:45,965
Speaker 2: in the pantheon.

723
00:37:46,205 --> 00:37:47,845
Speaker 1: You know, it would be great if we had on

724
00:37:47,885 --> 00:37:52,485
Speaker 1: our website a page list listed the movies. Yeah, this

725
00:37:52,565 --> 00:37:53,045
Speaker 1: should do that.

726
00:37:53,125 --> 00:37:53,565
Speaker 3: Let's do that.

727
00:37:53,645 --> 00:37:56,645
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do that we're morons is the lesson here.

728
00:37:56,925 --> 00:37:59,525
Speaker 2: But you know what, I'm gonna stand by it because

729
00:37:59,565 --> 00:38:03,245
Speaker 2: any list that's about the best movies about marriage needs

730
00:38:04,125 --> 00:38:06,285
Speaker 2: the world of OPU on it, and I think it

731
00:38:06,365 --> 00:38:08,925
Speaker 2: needs Before Midnight the third film, and link Later is

732
00:38:08,965 --> 00:38:11,765
Speaker 2: Before trilogy another trilogy. There you go, Josh. All three

733
00:38:11,805 --> 00:38:14,645
Speaker 2: of the films from each trilogy are in our pantheon.

734
00:38:14,765 --> 00:38:17,205
Speaker 2: And if you follow film Spotting on Twitter, or maybe

735
00:38:17,205 --> 00:38:20,325
Speaker 2: even if you don't, you may know that my Ethan

736
00:38:20,365 --> 00:38:25,085
Speaker 2: Hawk tweet a quote from my interview with him last

737
00:38:25,125 --> 00:38:28,045
Speaker 2: year for the movie Blaze You're Famous. They went viral.

738
00:38:28,205 --> 00:38:31,165
Speaker 2: It went you know, I'm not bragging, but it semi

739
00:38:31,245 --> 00:38:35,125
Speaker 2: viral anyway, big numbers for a film Spotting tweet, let's say.

740
00:38:35,205 --> 00:38:37,765
Speaker 2: And it was all about his great bit of wisdom

741
00:38:37,765 --> 00:38:40,404
Speaker 2: about how dads shouldn't be worried about their daughter's sexuality

742
00:38:40,445 --> 00:38:43,005
Speaker 2: and don't be the dad with the shotgun, let them

743
00:38:43,045 --> 00:38:45,445
Speaker 2: be their own shotgun and let them make mistakes. It

744
00:38:45,485 --> 00:38:48,405
Speaker 2: was great stuff. And the context of that answer, though,

745
00:38:48,845 --> 00:38:51,645
Speaker 2: was really just a kind of dumb question for me

746
00:38:51,765 --> 00:38:54,365
Speaker 2: about whether or not my daughter Sophie, who was fourteen

747
00:38:54,405 --> 00:38:58,444
Speaker 2: at the time, was ready to watch before Sunrise. And

748
00:38:59,085 --> 00:39:02,165
Speaker 2: since that time, since I interview Sophie has seen Before Sunrise.

749
00:39:02,285 --> 00:39:04,964
Speaker 2: She's seen it a lot. She's obsessed with the movie, Josh,

750
00:39:05,045 --> 00:39:07,765
Speaker 2: as you know, and she's so enamored with it that

751
00:39:08,325 --> 00:39:11,525
Speaker 2: she's not sure she wants to watch even before Sunset.

752
00:39:11,845 --> 00:39:14,685
Speaker 2: She knows its reputation, she knows people like me love it,

753
00:39:15,605 --> 00:39:18,725
Speaker 2: maybe even love it more than Sunrise, which she can't comprehend.

754
00:39:19,085 --> 00:39:22,964
Speaker 2: But her attitude is before Sunrise is perfect, Why mess

755
00:39:23,005 --> 00:39:25,325
Speaker 2: with it? I don't want to know what happens to them.

756
00:39:25,445 --> 00:39:27,245
Speaker 2: I think that's probably how a lot of us felt

757
00:39:27,445 --> 00:39:30,725
Speaker 2: until we saw Sunset and then we thought, okay, well,

758
00:39:30,765 --> 00:39:35,005
Speaker 2: somehow that movie's perfect too. So she's resistant. I've always said,

759
00:39:35,325 --> 00:39:37,404
Speaker 2: you know, it's only a matter of time, we're going

760
00:39:37,445 --> 00:39:39,325
Speaker 2: to watch it. You have to see it. But you

761
00:39:39,365 --> 00:39:41,325
Speaker 2: know what, I haven't decided. What's always been in the

762
00:39:41,365 --> 00:39:44,405
Speaker 2: back of my mind, whether or not I'm going to

763
00:39:44,445 --> 00:39:46,725
Speaker 2: have her watch before midnight. Yeah, whether or not that's

764
00:39:46,765 --> 00:39:47,285
Speaker 2: going to follow.

765
00:39:47,365 --> 00:39:48,525
Speaker 1: I don't know if you should do it to her,

766
00:39:48,565 --> 00:39:50,005
Speaker 1: not because it's a bad film, no.

767
00:39:50,045 --> 00:39:51,885
Speaker 2: Exactly, or whether or not we're both just going to

768
00:39:51,925 --> 00:39:54,685
Speaker 2: live in denial about it actually being a trilogy. There

769
00:39:54,725 --> 00:39:58,685
Speaker 2: isn't a third film here, Sophie. It is more adult. Sure,

770
00:39:58,765 --> 00:40:00,645
Speaker 2: I could argue that as a fifteen year old, maybe

771
00:40:00,645 --> 00:40:03,325
Speaker 2: she's not ready for it. It's harsher, it's more cynical.

772
00:40:03,605 --> 00:40:06,485
Speaker 2: But mainly I think I'm just protecting her from seeing

773
00:40:06,525 --> 00:40:10,485
Speaker 2: what happens to Jesse and Selene, from letting her see

774
00:40:10,605 --> 00:40:14,245
Speaker 2: what can happen to love, as instructive as it may

775
00:40:14,365 --> 00:40:17,005
Speaker 2: actually be. I started this top five with the fantasy

776
00:40:17,365 --> 00:40:20,125
Speaker 2: the Thin Man, and I think we come down here

777
00:40:20,165 --> 00:40:23,245
Speaker 2: with the book end of the reality of Before Midnight.

778
00:40:23,805 --> 00:40:27,205
Speaker 4: Oh you know something, You're just like the little girls

779
00:40:27,205 --> 00:40:29,685
Speaker 4: and everybody else. You want to live inside some fairy tale.

780
00:40:29,765 --> 00:40:32,045
Speaker 4: All right. I'm just trying to make things better here,

781
00:40:32,405 --> 00:40:34,405
Speaker 4: all right. I tell you that I love you unconditionally.

782
00:40:34,405 --> 00:40:36,085
Speaker 4: I tell you that you're beautiful. I tell you that

783
00:40:36,125 --> 00:40:41,085
Speaker 4: your ass looks great when you're eighty. H I'm trying

784
00:40:41,125 --> 00:40:44,885
Speaker 4: to make you laugh, okay. I put up with plenty

785
00:40:45,005 --> 00:40:48,565
Speaker 4: of yours. And if you think I'm just some dog

786
00:40:48,725 --> 00:40:51,805
Speaker 4: is going to keep coming back, then you're wrong. But

787
00:40:51,885 --> 00:40:55,885
Speaker 4: if you want true love, then this is it. This

788
00:40:56,085 --> 00:40:58,765
Speaker 4: is real life. It's not perfect, but it's real and

789
00:40:58,805 --> 00:41:01,045
Speaker 4: if you can't see it, then you're blind, all right,

790
00:41:01,005 --> 00:41:01,844
Speaker 4: if I give up.

791
00:41:02,605 --> 00:41:05,165
Speaker 2: The key there from the end of Before Midnight is

792
00:41:05,245 --> 00:41:08,484
Speaker 2: Jesse saying true love in pointing out that true love

793
00:41:08,965 --> 00:41:12,085
Speaker 2: is not necessarily what we think of as the fantasy

794
00:41:12,405 --> 00:41:16,245
Speaker 2: or the story book version. It's not perfect. The fundamental

795
00:41:16,325 --> 00:41:20,765
Speaker 2: nature of true love is that it's imperfect and it's hard.

796
00:41:21,325 --> 00:41:24,365
Speaker 2: And I did find a great article. Aoscott, great critic

797
00:41:24,365 --> 00:41:26,525
Speaker 2: from the New York Times, of course, wrote an article

798
00:41:27,045 --> 00:41:29,765
Speaker 2: after this movie came out where he tied it into

799
00:41:29,805 --> 00:41:33,205
Speaker 2: a few other movies, including Amore the Michael Hanekell and

800
00:41:33,445 --> 00:41:37,005
Speaker 2: the headline of the article was marriage the job. And

801
00:41:37,045 --> 00:41:39,885
Speaker 2: he said this, the flirtation that began eighteen years before

802
00:41:39,885 --> 00:41:42,364
Speaker 2: on a train to Vienna and resumed in Paris, a

803
00:41:42,365 --> 00:41:45,645
Speaker 2: prickly and contentious meaning of minds and hearts, has hardened

804
00:41:45,725 --> 00:41:49,165
Speaker 2: into a power struggle, and the negotiation of power is

805
00:41:49,165 --> 00:41:53,365
Speaker 2: what gives substance to modern marriage stories, whether comic or dramatic.

806
00:41:54,045 --> 00:41:57,485
Speaker 2: I do think that's the fundamental truth here, that any relationship,

807
00:41:57,565 --> 00:42:01,005
Speaker 2: certainly a marriage, is on some level about power, whether

808
00:42:01,365 --> 00:42:03,285
Speaker 2: you mean it to or not. Certainly, not in kind

809
00:42:03,285 --> 00:42:07,525
Speaker 2: of the corporate takeover sense of it. But it's a negotiation.

810
00:42:08,405 --> 00:42:10,884
Speaker 2: Someone in a relationship is going to.

811
00:42:10,885 --> 00:42:11,605
Speaker 4: Have to give.

812
00:42:11,805 --> 00:42:13,285
Speaker 2: And this is what we see in marriage story. You

813
00:42:13,285 --> 00:42:15,925
Speaker 2: talked about it with Nichole's character saying she got smaller.

814
00:42:16,245 --> 00:42:19,045
Speaker 2: Someone else is going to potentially or at times going

815
00:42:19,085 --> 00:42:22,645
Speaker 2: to have to thrive for the relationship to work, and

816
00:42:22,725 --> 00:42:25,205
Speaker 2: someone is going to have to sacrifice. They're going to

817
00:42:25,245 --> 00:42:27,725
Speaker 2: have to give just a little bit of themselves. And

818
00:42:27,765 --> 00:42:31,565
Speaker 2: that's that's the work of marriage. That's the trick ultimately

819
00:42:31,565 --> 00:42:34,725
Speaker 2: of marriage that before midnight, after certainly a lot of

820
00:42:34,765 --> 00:42:38,805
Speaker 2: contentiousness and a lot of prickliness, eventually does come around

821
00:42:38,805 --> 00:42:39,645
Speaker 2: to well.

822
00:42:39,725 --> 00:42:41,725
Speaker 1: Ask for the question whether or not Sophie should watch it,

823
00:42:41,765 --> 00:42:43,485
Speaker 1: You're just gonna have to get in touch with your

824
00:42:43,685 --> 00:42:47,725
Speaker 1: personal doctor, Spock give give ethan Hawk Paul, text him

825
00:42:48,045 --> 00:42:48,925
Speaker 1: and see if he thinks she.

826
00:42:48,925 --> 00:42:50,925
Speaker 2: Should watch it or I know he'll say, of course,

827
00:42:51,005 --> 00:42:53,805
Speaker 2: Well there you go. Stop protecting hers just me being

828
00:42:53,805 --> 00:42:56,245
Speaker 2: one of the dads protecting my daughter's innocence. She needs

829
00:42:56,285 --> 00:42:57,565
Speaker 2: to see what the world's really like.

830
00:42:57,645 --> 00:43:00,245
Speaker 1: You have your answer. Okay, if we're a meeting.

831
00:42:59,965 --> 00:43:01,725
Speaker 4: For the first time to down a train, would you.

832
00:43:01,725 --> 00:43:03,485
Speaker 6: Stop talking to me, would you ask me to get

833
00:43:03,525 --> 00:43:04,285
Speaker 6: up the train with you?

834
00:43:04,405 --> 00:43:08,205
Speaker 2: Of course, Josh and I have between us a combined

835
00:43:08,205 --> 00:43:11,525
Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty seven years of marriage, so that

836
00:43:12,285 --> 00:43:15,805
Speaker 2: top five would have been a very good one.

837
00:43:16,125 --> 00:43:19,364
Speaker 1: That's an exaggeration, but you hold enough. You didn't really

838
00:43:19,365 --> 00:43:20,965
Speaker 1: need to exaggerate to shock people.

839
00:43:21,005 --> 00:43:25,485
Speaker 2: Well, I know, I know that was an enjoyable top

840
00:43:25,525 --> 00:43:28,005
Speaker 2: five for us. Hopefully it was for you as well.

841
00:43:28,045 --> 00:43:30,085
Speaker 2: And yes, if you're a Film Spotting Family member, you

842
00:43:30,125 --> 00:43:32,445
Speaker 2: can dip into the archive and listen to top fives

843
00:43:32,525 --> 00:43:35,725
Speaker 2: like that anytime you would like. It's one of the benefits,

844
00:43:35,725 --> 00:43:39,365
Speaker 2: along with bonus shows, a weekly newsletter, early access to

845
00:43:39,445 --> 00:43:43,404
Speaker 2: events being part of the Early Access to Events being

846
00:43:43,445 --> 00:43:45,765
Speaker 2: part of the Film Spotting Family discord, and a lot

847
00:43:45,805 --> 00:43:49,245
Speaker 2: more to join. Check out the info at Filmspotting Family

848
00:43:49,525 --> 00:43:51,045
Speaker 2: dot com. Thanks for listening.

849
00:43:51,285 --> 00:43:58,165
Speaker 5: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore, but fine,