WEBVTT - The Karol Markowicz Show: Exploring Blue Anon Conspiracy Theories with David Harsanyi 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:09.240 Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio, 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:12.440 and welcome to the new time slot. The Carol Markowitz 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:15.920 Show is now airing Wednesdays and Fridays, so you can 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.040 get my non political podcast this show, The Carol mark 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.880 Wooz Show on Wednesdays and Fridays, and then normally the 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:26.400 political podcast I co host with Mary Katherine Ham every 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:30.000 Tuesday and Thursday. Only day you don't get me is Mondays. 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:34.600 So after the last two weeks of talking about fostering 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.640 likability in your kids and helping them make and coordinate 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.920 friendships and their teens, one listener writes in that I'm 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.960 overthinking it. Hi, Carol, love the show and your perspective, 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:50.400 but you're overthinking it regarding kids. They're going to be 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:52.840 who they are no matter what tips you give them 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:56.120 to be more likable. Kids don't listen to their parents, 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.920 especially when they are teenagers. I mean, yes, of course 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:04.520 that's true. I remember very well instantly discarding the advice 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:08.440 my parents would give me. That's why it's important to 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:13.440 start young, but also model the behavior. Don't tell long 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:18.680 winded stories yourself, be personable, be funny, let your kids 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:21.000 see you with your friends and show them what that 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:25.399 interaction should look like. My kids hear us cracking jokes 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:27.520 with our friends, and they see us make plans with 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:31.760 our friends, sometimes spontaneous, sometimes weeks in advance. But I 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:34.479 don't think that they'll just pick it up by osmosis. 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.800 And so we've had a lot of conversations, starting quite young, 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.880 about how to make friends, how to maintain friendships. A 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:46.479 lot of times kids need stuff pointed out to them 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:51.080 so they can see how it works. This conversation started, 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.560 like I said, two episodes ago, with a listener writing 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:58.400 in that their daughter is a teenager and has friends, 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:01.840 but never seems to see them outside of school and 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.560 doesn't know how to coordinate plans. I don't think that's 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:07.920 a crazy thing to teach your kids. I think that 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:12.519 they might not necessarily know how to coordinate their own 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.880 plans after years of you making the plans for them. 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:18.760 I mean, yes, you can't make play dates for them 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.840 when they're in high school, but it's not crazy to 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:25.200 give them the strategy for how to make plans. And 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.560 then last episode, we talked likability and whether you can 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:32.280 help your kids be more likable to others. I say yes, 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:35.359 I think people can change, and they can adjust their 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:39.520 personality to be better. Yes, it's true, we're not more 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:43.160 and perfect. I was a very shy kid, and then 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.880 I was a teenager who talked too much, and I 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:48.600 had to get over both of those challenges, and I 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:51.920 like to think that maybe I did. Although if I 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.120 told the teenager who talked too much that I now 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:57.640 have two podcasts, she probably would have said that sounds 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.200 about right. I get the argument that we don't want 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.440 to be helicopter parents to our kids, and I assure 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.600 you I'm the furthest thing from that, as anyone who 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:10.560 has ever watched my kids run free can attest. But 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:13.560 that doesn't mean we can't guide our kids, and it 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:15.919 doesn't mean we can't tell them the things and their 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.799 personalities that they maybe need to improve to attract more 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.120 people to their orbit. We've swung too far in the 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:27.120 opposite direction if that scene is overstepping. We know our 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:30.680 own kids, We know the amazing parts of their personalities 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:35.840 and the less amazing parts. Well they listen, we'll see. 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:38.080 I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, or anything 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.760 I talk about on the show. Drop me an email. 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:44.400 Carol Maarkowitz Show at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening. 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:48.000 Coming up next an interview with David Harsani join us 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.920 after the break, but first, with daylight savings behind US 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:55.760 crime rates tend to rise. You've heard us talk about 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:59.840 the Saber home defense launchers, the ultimate choice for protecting 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.520 what matters. But did you know that Saber also offers 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.680 a full line of on the go pepper sprays, gels 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:11.880 and stun guns backed by Saber's maximum strength guarantee. They're 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:15.200 the number one pepper spray brand trusted by law enforcement, 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:19.279 and that's what my daughter carries too. November is Running 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.200 Safety Month. 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Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.800 My guest today is David Hersani, senior writer at the 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.640 Washington Examiner and the author of the new book The 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:23.719 Rise of Bluing on how the Democrats became a party 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:25.400 of conspiracy theorists. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:27.160 Hi, David's so nice to have you on. 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:29.920 It's nice to be on. Thanks for having me so. 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:33.000 I am super excited about your book, which I have here. 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.159 I haven't read it yet, I just got it. 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:38.279 Tell us a little bit about it. 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:43.440 Well, I'm sure you know and you've heard that the 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.920 common perception, or the common case the media makes is 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:49.960 that the right wing is far more perceptible, far more 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:54.720 inclined to believe conspiracy theory is disinformation, misinformation and spread them. 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.919 But the more I thought about it, not just in 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:00.840 recent times, but historically speaking, the more I realized that 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.360 that wasn't actually true. Now, I'm not saying right wingers 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:07.479 aren't conspiracy theories. Sometimes we certainly are. But I think 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:11.400 that the left wing conspiracies are much more dangerous and 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.839 embedded in the argument they're making in a lot of ways, 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:19.240 and it's not just conspiracy theories. It's like paranoia and 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:23.960 more dangerous because it's laundered through media institutions, culture. You 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:28.520 have experts, you know, who were supposed to trust, who 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:31.440 spread these things, so it's a lot more difficult to 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.280 dislodge or just debunk and stuff like that. 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:35.960 So that's the basic idea of the book. 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.800 Yeah, what was the trigger for you, Like, which conspiracy 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:41.839 theory for you was like, Oh, that's it, I'm writing 0:06:41.839 --> 0:06:42.480 a book on this. 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:44.520 I don't know how if it worked like that, but 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:48.440 I think the Russia collusion conspiracy frightened me, and that 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.400 frightened me. But I thought was the biggest, most successful 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.160 conspiracy theory maybe in the history of the world as 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:58.160 far as the political conspiracy theory goes. It consumed us 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:02.400 for years. It shut down the ability of the White 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:06.279 House to govern, in Congress to govern, and infected all 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:09.640 kinds of people and I think changed everything. And then 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:13.600 when COVID came, I think that finally was broke the 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.560 fever and we don't trust anyone anymore. 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:18.120 So I'm not sure. 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:20.040 That they ever be able to get away with something 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:22.960 like that again, right, that was gonna be My next 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:25.840 question is, could something like that happen again? 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:29.400 We're about to head into a second Trump term. I 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.320 can't imagine a lot of people haven't gotten over it, right. 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.000 I mean Bill Maher, who was considered sort of a 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:39.400 voice of sanity on the left, still believes Russian collusion happened. 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:43.680 He said it just recently. So could something of this 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:44.280 happen again? 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.280 I think because of the margin of victory, it's going 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:48.520 to be a little more difficult to pull something like 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:49.160 that off. 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:50.560 It could happen again. 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.240 I don't think it's going to happen tomorrow or in 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.960 the next few years, because we are so people aren't. 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:59.400 As this election probably proved, we don't really listen to 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:01.440 mass media anymore in any serious way. 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:02.800 I don't think we take them seriously. 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:07.600 And it's not good because in a free country you 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.880 need a media who you know, that's watching over people 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.640 in power. So even if Donald Trump did something wrong, 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.240 I don't think anyone would believe it, you know, and 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:20.840 that's not good really for us at all. Right, So yeah, 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:24.960 I mean, you know, just think about this cycle. Everyone, 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:27.280 the whole media was kind of consumed with the idea 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:30.920 that Hitler was coming and that fascism was a problem, 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:34.240 which is also just paranoia. You know, it's a style 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:39.880 of paranoia in politics that makes people kind of act 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:41.800 very hysterical and stupid. 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.800 Yeah, why did they need the Russian collusion? Like for 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:48.599 I don't understand, like you could just hate him, just 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:50.599 hate him regularly. Why does he have to be a 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.920 Russian spy? You know, I never quite got that. It 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.400 was like he's so hateable in so many different ways, like, 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:00.720 just just hate him regular They won't let us hate 0:09:00.800 --> 0:09:05.079 him because they're so insane that I'm constantly you find. 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:06.600 Your you know, there was a skit about this. Yeah, 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:10.480 you're constantly have to defend a guy. Yeah, I don't. 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:14.319 I just think they wanted to delegitimize his presidency. I 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:16.240 mean that's another part of my book. You know, we 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:19.559 we that stupid term election denier, where if you question 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.559 anything you're in an election. To go back to two thousand, 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:24.840 there's not a Democrat alive who's going to tell you 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.120 that Bush actually won that election, even though there have 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.320 been independent recounts of Florida and all that. Even in 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.880 two thousand and four, they were almost every major Democrat 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.719 had gotten involved in talking about dive bold machine or 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:38.199 I remember. 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:38.559 That very well. 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:41.760 Ohio, Hio was stolen from them in two thousand and 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.000 four Dia Bold machines. 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.360 And then twenty sixteen they didn't accept that election as legitimate. 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:49.240 So it's not as if they just. 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:52.600 Began doing this, right. Yeah. 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:56.120 I mean there are writers who I started with, you know, 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:57.679 at the same time I did, who are on the 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:01.359 left who had never until maybe today, accepted a Republican 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:05.000 presidential victory. So they're just as much election deniers as 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:05.600 anyone else. 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:07.720 Yeah, how did you get into writing? 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:11.840 Well, my dad, you know, he's defected from Hungary my 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:16.319 mom as well, and he was really anti communists and 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:18.960 really big on history and all that. 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:20.320 We had books all over the place. 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:24.440 So I just always enjoyed that and just not a 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.840 very serious young person, I guess, and writing always seemed 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.600 like an easy and fun thing to do, so I 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:33.880 just kind of fell into sports writing first, is what 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:34.960 my first jobs were. 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:36.600 I did start writing. 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:39.800 Politics until after nine to eleven, so I don't know, 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:42.560 I never really thought of doing anything else. 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:48.280 What do you consider your beat now at the Examiner, Like, 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:49.520 what do you like to write about. 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:51.120 I feel like I you. 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:54.880 Know, I often get into I'm very into the culture, right. 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:57.240 The culture topics do it for me much more than 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:58.480 straight politics. 0:10:58.240 --> 0:10:59.520 Which I still do occasionally. 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.920 But you know, definitely lean into some some beats more 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:05.080 than others. 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:07.400 I mean, if they let me, I would sit here 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:09.640 and write about obscure records from the seventies. 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.440 But they don't let me do that. Uh no, not now. 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:14.280 I'm not sure many people would be interested in that 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:14.839 to you. 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:17.000 Pitched a column on that, because I feel like that 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:18.520 actually would be very popular. 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:21.640 I used to write the Happy war or occasionally write 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.080 the Happy Warrior column in the National Review, and I 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:26.280 would send them columns about stuff like that, and I'm 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:29.000 always like, I can't believe they're letting me publish lists, 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.040 you know, and they would. I would write the weirdest columns, 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:35.160 but I think it's a no. I do get passionate 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:37.520 about certain things. So if I'm writing, I like what 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.640 I do. I'm very lucky. So I just my beat 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:42.720 is anything. No one really tells me what to write, 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.199 and I generally write about what's going on in politics. 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.480 I try to be a contrarian on some issues. I 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:50.839 don't feel like I'm being a contrarian, but people seem 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:53.480 to think I'm doing it on purpose. I don't know. Ye, 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:55.280 I don't know if that's my instinct. Like I was 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.720 telling Molly Hemingway, who we both know, you know today 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.320 that when a large group of people are really happy 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.200 like they are today, I have I get very uncomfortable 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:06.960 and restless and want to I want to steal some 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:11.559 of their joy. Yeah, and I like to spark that 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:13.720 kind of conversation. You know, That's what I try to 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:14.200 do at least. 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:15.360 Yeah, I feel. 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.000 Like I agree with you a lot, So I don't know. 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:19.720 You're gonna have to work harder. 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.800 Yeah, someone is doing it. You know, no one agrees 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:26.520 with me anywhere. I probably wouldn't have a career right right. 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:28.880 I'm trying to think if there's anything big I disagreed 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.319 with you on, and I don't think so. So you're 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.079 going to have to really try hard on that contrarian streak. 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.960 I'm going to really pay attentions, and when you're passionate 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.360 about something, I'm going to I'm going to jump into 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:41.360 your mensions and I'm just going to go the other way. 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:41.880 Yeah. 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:43.040 Yes, that's excellent. 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.800 So what would you tell your sixteen year old self, Like, 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.920 any advice that you would offer young David Harsani. 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.800 Yeah, stop smoking up and acting like a lunatic. Start 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:55.160 getting serious about your life. 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.839 Don't look at him, sixteen year old. Those those are 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:01.560 the you know, you're supposed to do that kind. 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:02.280 Of fine years. 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:07.760 Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, yeah, I just wish I 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:09.880 would have been a little more serious about the world, 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:12.920 because it's good to get an early start. But yeah, 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:14.840 you have to enjoy those years, and you should just 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:20.480 do it. But don't do drugs. All little drugs, not 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:22.400 too great stuff, not too many. 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:24.920 Right, So what do you worry about? 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.360 What were those things that you think you should have 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:28.520 been taking more seriously? 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.800 Well, honestly, what I worry about the only I am 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:33.880 not very worried. I mean I'm not a person who 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:35.760 like worries very much. I mean, I have a general 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.640 worry about the future of the country. I just feel 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:40.440 like there's not much I can do about that. I 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:42.719 have my little space there and I make arguments. So 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.680 so I just really worry about my own kids and hope, 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:47.240 you know, and I hope that the world is a 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.720 good you know, that they find fulfillment in this world 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:51.880 and happiness and all that, and that the country is 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.439 still the same country that I grew up in general, 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:56.160 and you know, so I do worry about that. 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.480 Yeah, how do you keep kids off the blue and 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:00.520 on stuff? 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:05.160 It's tough because the I didn't have the Internet growing up, 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:08.680 you know, And I think that the Internet fuels that 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.360 a bit, because a bunch of people who have crazy 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.000 ideas can get together and kind of. 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:16.000 Reinforce the craziness. So I worry about that a little. 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:18.480 But also I like the Internet because it lets us 0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:23.000 debunk crazy things as well. Where you know, how do 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.440 I keep the kids off? Well, my kids are pretty old. 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:25.760 I can't. 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:27.920 They don't even They don't listen to me anymore or 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.440 tell me what they're up to. Yeah, so I just 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.480 hope that twenty one and twenty three. 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:36.400 Soon are they're going to read your book. 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.760 I doubt it. They're not very interested in politics, thankfully, Yeah. 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:43.640 Thankfully, my kids read the acknowledgments in my book because 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:44.560 I mentioned them. 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.520 But that was It's funny that you mentioned the acknowledgements 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:50.360 because they're so They're like the hardest thing for me 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.400 to write, because I know I'm going to forget someone. 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:54.640 So I used to used to be I used to 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:56.920 have like four pages of them. But now when in 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.600 the opposite direction, I'm just like all my friends and 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:00.720 this I don't have to worries. 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:01.640 You got to keep it short. 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:05.000 Yeah, yeah, Well, my co author of Bethany Mendel, like 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:07.880 my joke at the time was like, she's she thanked 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:11.120 everybody she'd ever met in her acknowledgements, and I just 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:14.360 couldn't possibly do that. So I only thank like my 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.320 family and like a few friends that like maybe really 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.760 helped me with the book or had some role in 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.120 my professional life, not just like yeah, every friend I've 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.520 ever had, Yeah, she really ruined it for me. 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:26.920 You could go either way on that. 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:31.120 More coming up with David. 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So other than Russiagate, what other 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:58.160 blue and on conspiracy theories are out there? 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:02.000 Well, there was a book in the sixty about the 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.640 paranoid style of politics that at the time certain fringes 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:07.480 of the Republican Party were involved in. Even though I 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.120 think it's a terrible book, but anyway, my view is 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:11.439 that it's. 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:14.880 By Hofsted or I think was his name. It's called 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.600 the Paradois style of politics. 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.720 Yeah, and it was about sort of Birchers and Goldwater 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:23.959 and all this stuff. I think it's very misleading, but 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.760 but he was right about certain current politics that take hold, 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:29.800 and I think that is happening on the left. I'll 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.639 give you an example, and it's an insidious thing, really, 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:35.359 is the idea that black people are not allowed to vote, 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.880 that there's voter suppression when it is easier to vote 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.240 today than it's ever been for anyone. Right, you've convinced 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:43.680 people that they have no agency. I'll give you another example, 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:47.399 that white cops are hunting black young men across this 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:48.280 country and killing them. 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:49.360 This sort of. 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:54.000 Thing is pernicious and false. And I'm not saying there 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:56.000 are under racists. Of course there are racists out there, 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:58.240 but the idea that the whole country is stacked against 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.960 you and won't let you achieve anything, I think is 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.480 a dangerous kind of paranoia. There's the whole anti Semitism 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.640 and Jewish stuff that's going on on the left now, 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:09.520 which is embedded in leftism forever, and you know happens 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.840 on the right too, But that's driven by a lot 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:16.800 of paranoia about Jewish power and money and a bunch 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.760 of ignorant people who know nothing about history or Israel. 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:22.760 So there are a lot of strands of it. I 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:23.880 mean I go through them in the book. 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:26.120 Yeah, how do you fight back against them? 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:26.760 Difficult? 0:18:26.800 --> 0:18:30.080 I mean you try to make rational arguments, but when 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:34.080 people are irrational, they're not typically open to hearing that. 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.160 A lot of it is driven by emotion and by. 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.879 Yes or start to crack through emotion. It's like, you know, 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:44.720 there's no reason there. You can't argue it out, it's 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:45.080 just the. 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.359 Exactly that's how you feel. Yeah, so a lot of that. 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:50.639 So what do we do, David Te'll give us the solution. 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:52.200 I'm sure there's one in the book. 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.000 The Thing that People Ivor in is my sixth book, 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.439 and every book everyone's like, you never offer or a solution. 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.400 Really, they make you off most of the time. 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:02.680 No, they did. 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:05.080 So there's a very short chapter at the end of 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:05.880 the book. 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.480 I don't know, this might be, this might work, try this. 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:12.200 Yeah, I just think you don't have to act. There's 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:13.919 a thing now with a lot of people who like 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.119 Trump where they're like the left did all these terrible things, 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:18.880 we need to do all these terrible things. 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:21.800 Also to show them. I think that's not a. 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.800 Winning formula, and I don't think it's the way people 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.360 should act. Now they'll call me a cuck or whatever. 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:28.879 I don't know if I agree with you. 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.359 I think that there's got to be some repercussions, like 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.480 the whole cancel culture thing, where people, you know, the 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.800 left comes for their enemies and cancels whoever they want. Like, yeah, 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:41.760 I think we should cancel them back. I think, you know, 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.280 just the idea is that lessons need lessons need to 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:45.680 be taught. 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:49.280 M So I don't know. I yeah, okay, we found 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:50.240 a point of disagreement. 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:52.440 There we go, there we go. Yeah, I should write 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.639 a column on this. I don't actually disagree with that 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:56.680 part of it. I'm not a big I've never big 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.320 a big critic of cancel culture. I gotta be honest. 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:02.200 I'm not saying that it's good. I think people should 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:05.479 be heard. I believe in those principles, But the idea 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:09.000 that someone should be teaching in a university and teaching 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:12.280