1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Oh, Man, Matt, this is one of those episodes where 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: our predictions turned out to be correct. How come are correct? 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: Predictions are never about happy stuff. I mean, this will 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: be a very different show if that were the case. Um. Yeah. 5 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: In this case, we looked at a thing called Sesame 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: Credit and it's a social credit score. It's a social 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: credit system that exists in in China, and we we 8 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: saw a slippery slope. I think, as we often describe, 9 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: we saw it and man if we didn't ride down 10 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: that thing. Yeah, agreed. So what you're going to hear 11 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: about today is, um, it's an older episode. It's when 12 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: we're classics. This is our first on air encounter with 13 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: a credit system that is not necessarily financially based. If 14 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 1: you live in the West, you're familiar with the great 15 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: racket of credit scores, and almost everybody you know has 16 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: had a not great experience with the big three credit companies. 17 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: Uh that it's a system that has a lot of 18 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: problems but is arguably necessary. The government of China extended 19 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: this to the idea of a kind of credit rating 20 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: for your status as a citizen in that country, and 21 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: as we recorded this episode, the Sesame credit system as 22 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: it was being called at the time, was opt in 23 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: at this point. Uh, there's nothing officially like that in 24 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: the US. Officially, we just uh we police ourselves via 25 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: social pressure on social media. But it is weird to 26 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: think about it the way you're talking about credit been. 27 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: You know, it's not like the credit system here in 28 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: the US is opt in. You're just a part of it. 29 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: As soon as you wanna, you know, do things and 30 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: buy things and have things. In the West, you have 31 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: to have a credit score. You get one, they kind 32 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: of just assign it to you. And uh, I don't know. 33 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just waiting for that to officially happen 34 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: here in the US. It feels very soon. What are 35 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: we talking about. You're you're about to You're about to 36 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: see from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history 37 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: is riddled with unexplained defense. You can turn back now 38 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, 39 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 40 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: name is no the Hout, my name is bog You 41 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: or you This is stuff they don't want you to know. Uh, 42 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: did you guys ever see the video or the films, 43 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: saw any of that franchise I did the first one. 44 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: I'm aware of it. I never I never saw it. Huh, 45 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: but I didn't. I know, you didn't see saw. I 46 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: didn't see Saw. No, I did not. I have not yet. Um. 47 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 1: But the antagonist in there is, if I recall correctly, 48 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: he's always saying, let's play a game, or would you 49 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: like to play a game or something like that. Is 50 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: that correct? Well, people have taken his idea and just 51 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: ran with it. Aside from the torture party. They liked 52 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: everything but the torture. And we'll start today's podcast with 53 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: the basic concept, a pretty neat one that all three 54 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: of us and here in the podcast studio and you 55 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: um out in whatever your neck of the global Woods 56 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: is have probably encountered. And that is gamification. This is 57 00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: a fun idea. I happened to personally like it for 58 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: certain things. This is when you're making some activity. Let's 59 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: say you're at the gym and you're running. We're just 60 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: running somewhere, uh, and you've got something in your arm 61 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: that's tracking the your arm movements. Here your steps. That's gamifying. 62 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: If you you know, I'm trying to get a certain 63 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: number of steps in a day, or it's gonna give 64 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: me some kind of reward if I achieve that number, right, 65 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: and it could be something as um you know, as 66 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: immaterial as just points are on a pinball machine contests, 67 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: but then you had a high score, you know, or 68 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: as it can app to quit smoking. Now they might 69 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: be financial to sites. We'll not to imagine if you 70 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: taking to the next level and then do a thing 71 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: like zombie Zombies Run. There's that app that takes the 72 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: that step counting thing and trying to keep up a 73 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: pace and introduces zombies into the equation where you're, you know, 74 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: running away from virtual zombies. So that's fine, I mean, 75 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: you can take it as far as you want to go. 76 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: Let's not forget how you know, Nantic sort of tricked 77 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: a bunch of nerds into, you know, gamifying their exercise 78 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: unbeknownst to them with the Pokemon. You that's just those Pokemon. 79 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 1: You're gonna get some steps then you gotta at those eggs, right, 80 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: gamifying your GPS. So, according to the University of Pennsylvania, 81 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: and here's a pretty good basic definition here, gamification is 82 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: the application of game elements and digital game design techniques 83 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: to non game problems like we said, you know, exercise 84 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:30,919 Speaker 1: self improvement, financial management. There's pretty compelling data that gamification 85 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: ups individual engagement, by which we mean like sustained participation 86 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: in several different areas. To sum it all up and 87 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: and our our pal and erstwhile guest host Jonathan Strickland 88 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: as as a pretty good episode about this on Tech Stuff, 89 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: which we recommend. Uh. To sum it up, gamification is 90 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: messing with your brain. It's it's affecting your rewards centers. 91 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: Our brains don't necessarily differentiate between a useful reward and 92 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: the feeling of being rewarded achievement unlocked exactly, achievement unlocked. 93 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: And so this provides several things. There's an emotional relevance 94 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: to learning, because it turns out our brains are better 95 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: remembering stories. We remember things if we have if we 96 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: feel like they matter emotionally, if we can fit it 97 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: into kind of a narrative, then there's a sort of 98 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: a beginning, middle, and end. That end being your goal. 99 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: It's just much easier to uh, sort of internalize and 100 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: sort of become a character in the story, so to speak. Yeah, 101 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: and when you are able to kind of cram yourself 102 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: into this narrative and earn those achievements, get to that endpoint. 103 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: What it does is it triggers dopamine receptors and it 104 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: creates this reward system with positive associations with learning. So 105 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: it's kind of a win win, right. Yeah, it feel 106 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: good and good things happen for you. Yeah. And that's 107 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 1: not the only chemical that will be involved there all 108 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: me all these other feel good chemicals, two very important 109 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: ones being you know, serotonin of course, and endorphins. Well, 110 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: this is you know, this is why I have to 111 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: level up. I always have to level up, no matter 112 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: what time it is. It doesn't matter if it's three 113 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: in the morning, got to get that next level because 114 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: it's important. And you, probably of the three of us, 115 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: have the most experience. You're probably the best gamer that well, 116 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to offend you be Are you what 117 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: one might describe as a level grinder? Oh? I am 118 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: such a grinder for levels, for any kind of upgrades. 119 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: You know, if I've got a character, got to upgrade 120 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: it to the max. And there's been a lot of 121 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: research put into gamification of these of these various different aspects. 122 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: You know, how how do we make it um? How 123 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: do we make people feel like they are having fun 124 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: when they are accomplishing either something that benefits them or 125 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: benefits us, whoever they might be in this case. And 126 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: now for something completely different, well kind of China. So 127 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: China has uh, let's talk about the relationship between the 128 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: government and the people. One of the biggest concerns historically 129 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: for any state level actor, which could be anything from 130 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: you know, Normandy back in the day to UH to 131 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 1: ancient commet civilization right um to Mesoamerican civilizations. One of 132 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: the primary challenges or things that the state infrastructure needs 133 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: to address is how to maintain stability. And stability ultimately 134 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: means the security, safety, and acquiescence of the people to 135 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: being governed. The relationship between the government and the people 136 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: in the country of China has had um. It's definitely 137 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: ups and downs. And it's no secret that the ruling 138 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: party of China where its asciduously to maintain stability across 139 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: a very diverse population. China has a lot of the 140 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: ingredients that historically speaking have been signs of a brewing revolution, 141 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: and we can walk through a few of them right now. Yeah, 142 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: not to mention that it is a massive population. Uh, 143 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: it's it's also a population of young, unmarried males largely 144 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: and this is due to the gender ratio skew that 145 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: we've seen, because of the cultural practices, the one child policy, 146 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: of growing cynicism over corruption in the government because more 147 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: and more people, as the Internet has come around, are 148 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: finding out about it. And you could say that about 149 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: in most countries. Oh yeah, there's accelerating inequality. Again, sounds 150 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: familiar to a U. S. Citizen sitting here in this 151 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,719 Speaker 1: podcast studio. Not to mention all the different regions that 152 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: are basically at odds with one another to bat western provinces, 153 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: the persecution of various ethnic minorities. It is a hotbed 154 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: of negativity in that country a lot of times, because yeah, 155 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: it's definitely a hot bed of tension. And just to 156 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: put this in global perspective, the estimated population of China 157 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: and was one point three nine billion. Yeah, that's uh, 158 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: that's almost of the world's population. So of the world's 159 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: people live here. Huge divides two between the people that 160 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: live in the urban areas and then work in various 161 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: they're obviously financial type jobs, also factory type jobs. Within 162 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: there are more rural agrarian workers that live way way 163 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: outside the city where they just do not have access 164 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: to the same infrastructure as folks living in the city do. Right, 165 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: And so China's approach to this situation, to maintaining stability 166 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: is multidimensional, and that means they maintain a few things 167 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: that we we are all familiar with, like police, yeah, 168 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: jail's prisons. You gotta have a place to put the 169 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: people who do the wrong things. They also have paid 170 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: informants who who go around to get information about other 171 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: people who do bad things, which isn't surprising considering what 172 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: a stronghold the government has on pretty much any form 173 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: of outside information. And they have their you know, state 174 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: sponsored news agency, not in the same as the BBC, 175 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: but much more of a comes directly from the government, 176 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: you know, always entirely accurate, let's say, right, and compensation 177 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: for deaths or tracking these dissident groups, and a dissident being, 178 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: like as an old pointed out, can be widely defined 179 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 1: UH informal security forces or goons. This is constantly occurring, 180 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: and the government pours a lot of scratch into this. Uh. 181 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: Just in two thousand eleven, for instance, the expense on 182 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 1: national defense was six hundred and one point one five 183 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: six billion one, or for people who want a dollar 184 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: for perspective, ninety point six billion US dollars. That's the 185 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: claimed number. And I think that sounds kind of inflationary. 186 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: But but in contrast, uh, the expense on stability maintenance 187 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: is six hundred and twenty four point four to one billion, 188 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 1: which means that this government is spending more on at 189 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: least two thousand eleven spending more on internal stability than 190 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: on external stuff force projection. And this is all I know, 191 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: it sounds billifying, but almost every country has some sort 192 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: of thing like this. You know, countries happily jails paid informants. 193 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:55,079 Speaker 1: This is this is just constantly happening. And it's not 194 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: all um negative or fear of consequence type stuff too. 195 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: There are positive things, carrots rather than sticks. Well, yeah, 196 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:06,719 Speaker 1: you can rally your entire population, well most of your 197 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: population against some shared threat that we all see existentially 198 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 1: or for real, let's see an historically antagonistic country one nearby, 199 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: like Japan that is in conflict with a lot of 200 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: the time. Um. They can also provide propaganda to rally 201 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: the population for China's historic regional importance, global ascendency. So 202 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: the enforcing the idea like we are all one entity, 203 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: We're all part of this one collective thing. There's no 204 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: need for us to try to break that or dissent 205 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: or go into factions. And perhaps one of the final 206 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: carrots rather than sticks, is the the assurance of widespread 207 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: economic improvement, continual economic growth. Essentially the argument this government 208 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: is worth keeping around, you know, even if I'm not 209 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: particularly happy about one thing or another, because it is 210 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,679 Speaker 1: good for me financially. But in addition to consistently using 211 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: these long established methods, which are again common throughout the world, 212 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: China is not the bad guy here. China has embraced 213 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: cutting edge technologies. Yeah, they're they're using vast internal surveillance online, 214 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: like looking at all of the Internet activity in the 215 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: country that they can possibly see, looking at or listening 216 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: to telephone calls using the metadata a lot of the 217 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: same things that again we do in the US, just 218 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 1: because that's my personal frame of reference. Um. They're also 219 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: restricting access to information via this thing called the Great Firewall. 220 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: It's referred to as the Great Firewall. It's the restriction 221 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: of of Google search terms. Right, anything that you search online, 222 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: you're not going to find certain things Tenament Square massacre 223 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: comes into Well, there's there's another thing that's interesting. As 224 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: a side note, one of my old professors I used 225 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: to love talking about this where I think we've mentioned 226 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: the Great Firewall in this show before, but every so often, 227 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: if you're using the Internet without a proxy or something 228 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: in the country, then the Internet police will pop up, 229 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: not because you're doing anything wrong, just remind you that 230 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: they're here for your safety, you know, so that you 231 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: just hit a malicious website. And the thing it was 232 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: always interesting to my professor was that their eyes were blue. 233 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: I don't know why he brought that up, because it 234 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: is like a fun little animated avatar like Clippy. It 235 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 1: kind of is. I don't know if it's animated. It 236 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: might be now at this point. But as Steve Jobs 237 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: like to say, there's one more thing, but first a 238 00:15:44,160 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: word from responsible. Here's where it gets crazy. Enter sesame credit. 239 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: So the Chinese government has decided to take all of 240 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: these things into account, how how important internal stability is 241 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: within their country, and they've partnered with private industry to 242 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: gamify essentially obedience among its citizens for for the state. 243 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: So this could be possibly a very dangerous enterprise it's 244 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: it's a social credit system. Um, I guess kind of 245 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: like a credit score. But critics are already alleging that 246 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: it's affiliated more so with obedience than with pocketbooks. It's 247 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: called Sesame Credit. Yeah, it's being constructed for the Chinese 248 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: government by an outfit called AUNT Financial Services Group, which 249 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: is associated with Ali Baba. And if you haven't heard 250 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: of Ali Baba, you almost certainly, um, you almost certainly 251 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: will soon. And it is the world's largest retailer as 252 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: of April of It's very much like Amazon to me 253 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: in the way I've sewed it. Yeah, and anti financial. 254 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: This is a bit dry, but this is very important 255 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: for you to know, especially if you plan on living 256 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: in this country in the next few years. And Financial 257 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: operates what's called the alie Pay payment platform. So ali 258 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: pay is a third party platform and it doesn't charge 259 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: transaction fees. It's partnered with MasterCard, Visa, all all the 260 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 1: big hitters financially in ali pay handled almost half of 261 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: the online traffic online payment market of China. That's half 262 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: of of the world's population, right, at least the internet 263 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 1: active right. And so this means that Sesame Credit is 264 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,959 Speaker 1: able to pull data from these online purchases or transactions, 265 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: it can go to AUNT Financial and and it can 266 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: go into Sesame credit. They can the the concerns here 267 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: are pretty much already apparent. But we do have you know, 268 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: we do have word from the official spokespersons or spoke 269 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: people for for Sesame Credit who say, um, essentially, what 270 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: this does is only associated with that that it will 271 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: not pull from social media platforms, and we have a 272 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: quote about that too. So, according to spokesperson Miranda Checks, 273 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: Sesame Credit tracks quote financial and consumption activities of users, 274 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: but materials published on social media platforms do not affect 275 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: our users personal Sesame credit score. So essentially, will we'll 276 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: see every We'll see every time that Bend buys the 277 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: next um, I don't know, gallon of blood or whatever, 278 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: but but we won't track how many pictures he posts 279 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: of him with right. The thing is, opponents remain skeptical 280 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: of this claim. And here's why it's dangerous. Do you 281 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: guys want to do a hypothetical thing? Oh god, yeah, 282 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: that's my favorite thing to do. They scare me. Well, yeah, 283 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: because you're the example of this one. Okay, let's say 284 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: let's say that you are let's let's give him a 285 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: different name. Can I be droken if it please your 286 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: green lighting it, then I say you are drogan officially. 287 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: So Drogen is a pretty stand up citizen. Right. You're 288 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: not politically involved. I mean you could describe yourself pretty easily. Yeah, 289 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 1: I'm not really politically involved. You guys know that I 290 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: don't like to stick my nose in those kind of 291 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: places because I feel like it's not my place. I'll 292 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: just you know, I'll go out to eat, grab a 293 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: drink with friends, but not, you know, not too often 294 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: because I like to save money. Um, I don't know. 295 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: I buy all the things that I that I do 296 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: for my hobbies, like I like to I'm a skater. 297 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: You don't know that I love to skate. Yeah, I 298 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: like to run and hikes, so I buy little things 299 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: like that. I've had a solid job for a while. 300 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: I'm married, I've got a kid on the way. You know. 301 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: Um you should see you should see my Ali Baba account. 302 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: I've got so much baby stuff on there. Uh, it's 303 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: pretty insane. I'm a little worried about that. But but 304 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 1: it's good. I'm a good citizen. Right. But let's say 305 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: sesame credit does take social media in the account. If 306 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: that's the case, then when Drogan posts a link to 307 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: a censored news site, it could affect his sesame credit score. Furthermore, 308 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: you needed more dangerously. It may not matter how good 309 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,719 Speaker 1: is depending on the people he's friends with and social media, 310 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: but the activities of your friends on social media can 311 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: have an impact on your score as well. So, um, 312 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: your score can actually dip below a certain threshold, and 313 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: when that happens, your life can get significantly more difficult. 314 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: What do you mean, maybe the Internet slows down and 315 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: get throttled a little bit. Uh, might be tougher to 316 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: get alone, It might be harder to start a small 317 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: business that you wanted to do. That's gonna be a problem. 318 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: And then your application to various government agencies might get denied. 319 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 1: Really so, so going through bureaucracy gets more difficult, which way, 320 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: as we know, I mean, in a country of that size, 321 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: is already probably not an easy task. So things like moving, 322 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: applying for travel visas, so on. You know, that means 323 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: that there is a system that relies on social pressure, UM, 324 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: but is introducing these incentives to the public to self 325 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: monitor as people want to take advantage of having this 326 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 1: good sesame credit score and then avoid the consequences of 327 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: having a crappy one. So maybe, um, maybe drog in 328 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 1: drog In takes a hit to his sessame credit score 329 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: and his wife comes in and says, what happened because 330 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: she can see my sess of my sesame credit score, 331 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: I can see hers. Maybe we have a joint credit score. 332 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: Sesame credit score knows, but it's it is for sure 333 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: that your activity with the person you probably spend the 334 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: most time with would meet noted and affect it. Let's 335 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: speak of notes, it is important to note that at 336 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: this point sesame credit has not um not rolled out 337 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,440 Speaker 1: any penalties for low score, and official sources state it 338 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: will not include penalties for low score. And right at 339 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: this point, let's let's just stop and like, what what 340 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: do you guys think of this? This this idea of um, 341 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: this idea of of a state rate rated agency. It 342 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 1: feels like something out of like ur to me. You know, 343 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: it really feels like the kind of thing that on 344 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: the surface might feel. But the deeper you get into it, 345 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: the more you realize that you're kind of being duped 346 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 1: into allowing the government to have even more control over 347 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: your life than they already do. So what if, for instance, 348 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: what if, for instance, Drogan wants to start a small 349 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: business and he knows that if he gets his number 350 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: up to a certain threshold, he will be able to 351 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: get alone much easier, much more easily, So he reports 352 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: one of his neighbors for something which may be true, 353 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,479 Speaker 1: maybe not, and then that participation makes him more of 354 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 1: a model citizen, more of a trustworthy citizen, and then boom, 355 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: his score goes up with with the possibility is there. 356 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: The spokespeople for Sesame Credit have said explicitly that they're 357 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: not checking social media and that this is an opt 358 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: in system, but it is possible to incentivize essentially um 359 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: a play s where people instead of reacting out of fear, 360 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: are reacting because they see themselves bettering themselves. They see 361 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: it is bettering themselves. I know this might sound sort 362 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: of paranoid on our parts, and this this thing, this 363 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,719 Speaker 1: news has been around for a few years. But there's 364 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 1: one other there's one other fact that really gives some 365 00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:26,199 Speaker 1: sand to our concerns here and we'll get to it 366 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: right after a word from our sponsor, and we're back. 367 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: Here is the troubling fact about sesame credit. That gives 368 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: a little more credence I think to the speculation around 369 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 1: the world about it. It's opt in for now, at 370 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: least until when it becomes mandatory for every citizen of 371 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: the country. Yeah, so I'm trying to imagine it happening 372 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: in the United States. Um, the let's say the federal 373 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: government creates their version of sesame credit. It's called okay, okay, no, no, 374 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: But I'm being serious something something as well, something more transparent, 375 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: because there's they're also pretty compelling arguments that the alphabet 376 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: agencies take credit score and social um connections on Facebook 377 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: into account. Ye know, they do a full linked in 378 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: on that sucker, and and and I'm trying to imagine 379 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: opting into something like that and going, yes, I want 380 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: to see how good of a citizen I am, and 381 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: I want to be a better citizen and do all 382 00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: the right things for that. I feel like this country. 383 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: This is huge generalization, but I feel like the individuals 384 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,640 Speaker 1: in this country believe in individualism so much that that 385 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 1: may not be attractive. I don't know. And that's complete 386 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: speculation and from my own personal view. But on the 387 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: flip side of that, though, not to generally over generalized, 388 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: but it does feel like that the culture in China 389 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: has much more of a focus on collectivism versus individualism, 390 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: So I could see how something like this would take 391 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: off without having to be mandatory. Yeah, and there's also 392 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 1: one party, right, So in the US, as the federal 393 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: government changes hands from one party to the next to 394 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 1: the next, how does that change from what I like 395 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: these say changes hands. Yeah, that's the same hand going 396 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: into a different puppet. Right, But that's a that's a 397 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: good point. So, yeah, these things happen by degree. Right. 398 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,400 Speaker 1: Facebook didn't come out and say, let us do these 399 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: horrific things to you or to your concept of privacy. 400 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 1: They just said, hey you can you can hang out 401 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: with your friends from college online. Create artificial scarcity, artificial 402 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: um sense of exclusivity. So they're very they're very smart 403 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: things happening here because one, it's opt in, which means 404 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: the original group will be self selecting people who want 405 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: to and want to have as sessame credit score. Want 406 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 1: it to be high. I want people to know about it, 407 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 1: and perhaps me even compete to achieve a better score. 408 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: And then if those people are seeing you know, doing 409 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: quote unquote better in life and society. Then having a 410 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 1: credit score assessame credit score, will you know, probably become 411 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: more desirable. And who's to say that the government doesn't 412 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: take one of these cases and turn it into like 413 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 1: a poster kind of station where they're like, hey, look 414 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: at this family here. They went full bore on the 415 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: sesame credit you know, models they got, Yeah, and now 416 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: they're thriving. Don't you want to be like this family? 417 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I just I don't know. And how will 418 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: it affect how it will affect younger people who are 419 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: in the dating phase of life. Came for a looking 420 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: for some kind of spouse, whether that's you know, a 421 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: husband or a wife. Uh. And then they also said 422 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 1: they also said, recording to a BBC article, that the 423 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: company does not hide that it judges the types of 424 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: products shoppers buy online. So someone who plays video games 425 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 1: for ten hours a day would be considered idle, someone 426 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: who frequently buys diapers would be considered probably a parent 427 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: who was, on balance more likely to have a sense 428 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: of responsibility that comes from li ying Yong Sesamese, direct 429 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: technology director. Yeah, and this this idea that it's so 430 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: much more granular with those though, you know what I 431 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: mean like, I mean, like these categories that we're talking 432 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: about now are very broad. But as we know with 433 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: the way even our data is used, um and mind, 434 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: I think of the possibilities of all of the specifics 435 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: you can find out about somebody with unfettered access to 436 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: their feed that they're streamed everything that they're putting online. Yeah, 437 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: which diapers did they buy and at what time exactly. 438 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: Privacy is not endangered. Privacy is extinct already for the 439 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,239 Speaker 1: vast um the vast majority of people who live in 440 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: developing or develops nations. Privacy, I submit to you as 441 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: one of the new currencies of the very well to 442 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: do right, the people you don't see in pictures, the 443 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: people who are in name and who's who and so 444 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: and so, and very soon water will be one of 445 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: those things. No, I hope not. I hope water will 446 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: be on all the time. You know, we're Is it sustainable? 447 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: That's a good question, mean before a different day. It 448 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: makes me think of what's going on now with the 449 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: water and Rio de Janeiro secrept for the Olympics, right, 450 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: and watch out for dead bodies floating. So this this 451 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: brings us to something else, like the technology. Technology is 452 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: inherently disruptive, right, there's this whole um. If there was 453 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: a pantheon for the circle of society, then technology would 454 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: receiva the destroyer because it fundamentally changes roles of people, 455 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 1: institute tuitions, and fundamentally changes timelines. In this case, we're 456 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: seeing technology change the role of monitoring. If it's full 457 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: potential again they say sesame credit says that it's just 458 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: to do this will be mandatory later. But it's full 459 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: potential is crystal clear. It's paving the way for the 460 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: people of a country to become the police of a country. Yeah. Yeah, 461 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: it could subvert the old paradigm of state stability through 462 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: fear of consequence to a new paradigm of desire for reward. 463 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: And you know that. The other thing is like, is 464 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: that necessarily bad if people are there just to follow laws? Right? 465 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: If people have social pressure, that's saying hey, don't um 466 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: you know, hey, hey stop hey, Druggon's brother in law, 467 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: stop stealing all those fiats. Right, you're messing up my 468 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: assess me credit score. And I really like who knows 469 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: my kid to get into a good school? Like when 470 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: when other when we hold other people hostage for things, 471 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: or other people hold us hostage for things. That becomes 472 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: a powerful and uh, probably more cost effective means of 473 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: controlling people. It's I think the concern is that it's 474 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: bad if there's a it's bad if there's a bad government. 475 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 1: Right that says it says we're in turning everybody of 476 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: you know, Korean descent, or we're we're in turning everybody 477 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: in Tibet, which probably would never ever happen, yeah, or 478 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: just you know, allowing any kind of abuses, just outright 479 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: allowing any kind of abuse in any country that would 480 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: allow that that had this kind of system on, it 481 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: would be dangerous. It reminds me of a David Egger's 482 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: book called The Circle that I've mentioned before. There is 483 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: a version of the Internet that exists in this novel 484 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: where you can no longer be anonymous on the Internet anymore, 485 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: and that in and of itself creates this democratization of 486 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,239 Speaker 1: the Internet where you know, if you're not willing to 487 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: stand behind your trolling and you know, have your name 488 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: and i D number visible to everyone, then you're not 489 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: gonna do it right. So it eliminates a lot of 490 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: the negative aspects of the Internet, but it also like 491 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: you are tied to this account for life, you know, 492 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 1: and I could just see an escalation of this being 493 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: like this is your social currency, this is your identification. Everything, 494 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 1: your record, your permanent record, anything that happens in your 495 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: life is stored in this account. And it's all kind 496 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: of tied to information technology. So it follows you around 497 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: and you can never escape it short of like wiping, 498 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: you know, doing like a Mr. Robot style hack, you know, 499 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: and just totally annihilating the record. It's a digital shadow 500 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 1: and it follows you. Yeah, when you combine that technology 501 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: with surveillance technology, you get something that's extremely close to 502 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: a digital version of version of our concept of God 503 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: that knows everything you've done, or Santa Claus. Maybe he 504 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: knows everything that you're doing when you're na eying, when 505 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: you're nice, he sees you when you're sleeping, when you're awake. 506 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: That's a creed, Yeah, I mean really, that's I mean 507 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: that these are these are excellent points. They call it 508 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: God View with Uber, you know, they have like a 509 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: view where they can see everybody that's on the grid 510 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: and Uber they call it God View, And that's like 511 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: a that's a tech term for any kind of platform 512 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: that has users where you can view everyone where they 513 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: are geo raphidally at any time. Take a thing like 514 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: this where not only maybe Spotify has a gazillion users 515 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: or whatever, but this is literally everyone. So there could 516 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: also be let's we talked about some of the cons. 517 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about some pros, just to give 518 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: at least a fair thing, so it's not I comple condemnation. 519 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: One of the pros, for instance, could be the ability 520 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: to see a problem brewing before it does. And I 521 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:17,040 Speaker 1: don't mean necessarily like a dissent, but to see the 522 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: thing that's doing is it's it's giving a wider view, 523 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: it's giving that uber god mode, right, But is it 524 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: explaining why something happens if people are maybe there are 525 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,720 Speaker 1: people who are purchasing less of some at some frequency, right, 526 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: and they're concentrated in this one region in this area, 527 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: Well maybe they're purchasing less stuff overall and that drops 528 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: their sesame credit score. But the reason they're doing that 529 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: is because the factory in the area that everybody worked 530 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 1: at closed or is closing and has been laying off workers. 531 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,320 Speaker 1: And this is something maybe that the larger scale government 532 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: would not have been aware of in enough time to help, right, 533 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 1: Or maybe there's a maybe there's something that changes with disaster. 534 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,919 Speaker 1: The thing is the world is so dynamic and it's 535 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: difficult to imagine a system nimble enough to accurately represent 536 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 1: that without you know, breaking millions of eggs to make 537 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: an omelet. That may be an abomination. And the issue 538 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: with this, in my mind is that we must always 539 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: be cautious of hard cells. This is entirely my opinion. 540 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: But usually when someone has an act now thing and 541 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: say here, do this, you have twenty four hours. You 542 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 1: do this, you have fam three minutes. And again, one 543 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,959 Speaker 1: worrying thing about this is that it is a hard sell. 544 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 1: It is inevitable currently it is an opt in, but 545 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: it is mandatory within the near, very near future. To 546 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: two thousand twenty may sound or like a long way away, 547 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: or look like that on paper, but it's I mean 548 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: much much faster. That might feel. I could have sworn 549 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: the stock market just crashed a little while ago, but 550 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 1: that that was almost ten years ago. As William Faulkner said, 551 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: the past isn't even over right, I'm paraphrasing. But with 552 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 1: this it may be inevitable. Another question, you know, is 553 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: the US already doing this? Is the European Union already 554 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: doing something like this but much less transparent? And if so, 555 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 1: should we applaud a country that is at least putting 556 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: out a beta, Yeah, having a modicum of transparency? And 557 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 1: what does this what does this lead to in the future? 558 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: Does this mean that will be the end of what exists? 559 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: Is free speech in this country? Does this mean that 560 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: free speech in the country in which we reside is 561 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: already you know, monitored? Of course, granted, free speech never 562 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,320 Speaker 1: was meant to mean speech without consequence, and we've always 563 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,720 Speaker 1: been monitors since we've been able to communicate online. Yeah, 564 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: that's that's true as well. So we would like to 565 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: hear your thoughts on this. What what do you think 566 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: is this? Is this actually going to happen? Is sesame credit? 567 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 1: What is Sesame credits credit score? Here? Is it trustworthy 568 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: enough that it will not for ideological or dare we 569 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: say moral reasons begin to also vacuum in social media data? 570 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: Will it be will it be just a motivating factor 571 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: for people to work out more and and like gamify 572 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,400 Speaker 1: the way that's smaller, smaller scale apps have done or 573 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:37,360 Speaker 1: is it something different? Is it when it becomes mandatory 574 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 1: in what will it My question is what will it 575 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: be in? You know what I mean, what will it 576 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: be in? You know? I just thought about ben before 577 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: we get to how to send your questions for that stuff. 578 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: Is that it doesn't even really matter if sesame Credit 579 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,720 Speaker 1: itself is tracking all that stuff and putting it together, 580 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: because some third party can just take the data which exists, 581 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,880 Speaker 1: especially if they're you know, sess Me Credits selling it 582 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 1: like many other social media companies do, selling that data 583 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: they collect to third parties. You can just combine it 584 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: all and then have another company that's essentially like a 585 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 1: social blade or something that's just collating all the data. Ultimately, 586 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: it may not matter if someone even if they say, okay, mandatory, 587 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,399 Speaker 1: that's kind of crazy. We understand how that would make 588 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: us seem disingenuous or less trustworthy than we actually are. 589 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: It will always be opt in right the same way 590 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: that Facebook is. But there's a problem of saturation that 591 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: occurs because if you have never signed up for Facebook 592 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,000 Speaker 1: and all of your friends have and they have sent 593 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:49,120 Speaker 1: you an email right, then Facebook knows there's someone who 594 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: has your email address. It may not know as much 595 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: about you as they want to, but they probably already 596 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 1: know more than you wish. You may have heard stories 597 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: before people who found that there was a dumb Facebook 598 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,799 Speaker 1: account a digital parking space waiting for them and they 599 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 1: had never logged in. This could be the same kind 600 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,399 Speaker 1: of problem. After a certain threshold, if there are enough 601 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: people that are in this kind of situation, then there 602 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: will be connections that are unintentional. Right, and that is 603 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: not a conspiracy theory. That is a real thing that 604 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,560 Speaker 1: can happen with any sort of social network, right, especially 605 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: if the people in the social network interact in person, 606 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 1: go places with their cell phones, right, take pictures in 607 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 1: different places while you were at the party with three 608 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: different friends who are unconnected somehow, but they all end 609 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: up play Pokemon Go or whatever the equivalent of a 610 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,759 Speaker 1: GPS game is with facial recognition as part of the thing. 611 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 1: You know, then this this is all happening live. This 612 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: is a live fire, this is this is uh, you 613 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 1: guys know. I'm hesitant to cover ongoing events. This is 614 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: just an up coming things. So there's a huge disclaimer, like, 615 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: it may not who knows it may it may not happen. 616 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,479 Speaker 1: It may just just collapse on itself and become vapor wearer. 617 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that you refer to it as 618 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,839 Speaker 1: a beta test, because I mean, that's exactly what it is. 619 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: But it's a very unusual beta test for sure. So 620 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,160 Speaker 1: what do you think, folks? Do you think this is 621 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: on balance a good thing a bad thing? As one 622 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,279 Speaker 1: of our coworkers, as Scott Benjamin Is, want to say, 623 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: are you for it or again it it does it? 624 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: And uh we we'd like to hear your opinion and 625 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,760 Speaker 1: why and if you if you feel like sesame credit 626 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: has been vilified because of the potential for misuse. Uh we, 627 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: we'd like to hear a good defense of this. You know, 628 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,359 Speaker 1: it would it would make not just us, but many 629 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: of our listeners and many of the other folks around 630 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,839 Speaker 1: the world ecstatic to know that this was all alarmism 631 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: and panic. We're not saying it's happening now, We're saying 632 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: that it's possible, and we may well be being a 633 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: little bit alarmist and panicky to be fair. Also, I 634 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, I just this is the kind 635 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: of thing that sort of like catnip, you know, for 636 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 1: getting the brain kind of twirling around, like, what is 637 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: the worst case scenario, What is the most nefarious way 638 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 1: this potentially well meaning program could just spiral out of 639 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:26,919 Speaker 1: control into the depths of black mirror Farenheit fifty one territory. 640 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: It is that kind of thing to me, But doesn't 641 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 1: necessarily mean it has to go there, right, Yeah, it 642 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean it has to go there. I mean 643 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 1: they're like, if you're probably going to go there? I was, 644 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: I was gonna say the worst analogies, like, just because 645 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: a car hits a poll and burst into flame, doesn't 646 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: mean that people are going to be injured if they're 647 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,760 Speaker 1: in it. It means they probably will be and chances 648 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: are they're going to be incinerated. You know, that's a 649 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 1: very that's a very unfair comparison for me to make. 650 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,080 Speaker 1: I'm not implying that this is a car accident, but 651 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:02,440 Speaker 1: it is interesting. It does show, you know, it shows 652 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:08,319 Speaker 1: this increasingly um increasingly profound role the technology is playing here. 653 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,879 Speaker 1: Uh So we would like to hear from you. Let 654 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 1: us know what you think. You can find us on 655 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 1: Facebook and Twitter, because we do have a Facebook page 656 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 1: and it probably knows way too much about what kind 657 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,399 Speaker 1: of pizza the three of us like. You can find 658 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 1: us there we are Conspiracy Stuff and also find us 659 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 1: on Instagram where we are Conspiracy Stuff Show, where you 660 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,520 Speaker 1: can see my brand new Space Camp T shirt sent 661 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: to us by listener Paula H. Because she took pity 662 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:37,800 Speaker 1: on me because I had never been to Space Camp. 663 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 1: It had been a dream of mine ever since I 664 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: was a little Nickelodeon loving child watching Double Dare and 665 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 1: seeing that as the grand prize, the end all be 666 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,640 Speaker 1: all of my childhood dreams dashed while she put them 667 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 1: back together, picked up the pieces, healed my child like soul. 668 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:59,520 Speaker 1: And thank you. You are appreciate that was that was 669 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:05,360 Speaker 1: a genuine and joy and u uh appreciation that you 670 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: saw there on this this bearded face. So thank you, 671 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,799 Speaker 1: Paula H. Yeah, they and you know what the NAT 672 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,680 Speaker 1: and I owe you a thank you for that as well, 673 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: because uh Knowl's enthusiasm was palpable everybody's day. I was out, 674 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,360 Speaker 1: I was out of the office somewhere and you texted 675 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,319 Speaker 1: me and so I just like immediately poohed back into 676 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 1: that circle to see the shirt. That Again, listeners are 677 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: the most important part of our show, and every time 678 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,840 Speaker 1: we say that. We like to demonstrate that with a 679 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: little thing we call shot ut Corner. Our first shoutout 680 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,200 Speaker 1: today goes to Jonathan West, who wrote to us on Twitter. 681 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,120 Speaker 1: He let us know about the Panama Papers movie that's 682 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 1: coming to Netflix. I'm excited about that. That was a 683 00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,479 Speaker 1: great episode in my opinion. Guys don't mean to tute 684 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,080 Speaker 1: our own horn, but I enjoyed that episode because okay, man, 685 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 1: give give a little horn too. Well. It gave a 686 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:03,800 Speaker 1: real window into a world that we kind of knew 687 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 1: was there. We did know was happening, but we got 688 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: to see the details. Um, let's see it's it's written 689 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,320 Speaker 1: by It's a book that was written by investigative journalist 690 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:20,919 Speaker 1: Frederick ober Meyer and Bastion ober Meyer. Interesting similar last 691 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,879 Speaker 1: names there, Um, but yeah, thank you Jonathan West. We're 692 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,279 Speaker 1: definitely going to be checking that out. Next, we have 693 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:32,760 Speaker 1: one from Rick Comstock via Facebook. Are manufacturers paint robots? Um? Quote? 694 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,319 Speaker 1: My robots have no AI, which I believe is a 695 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: good thing. But they can see. They can see colors, 696 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,440 Speaker 1: and they can see when something is near to them 697 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,799 Speaker 1: and how close someone is to them. I find my 698 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 1: job extremely interesting watching the advancements that happened at my company. 699 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 1: But I'm also glad they are taught by a teach pendent. 700 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 1: A teach pendent I don't know this term, and also 701 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,080 Speaker 1: that they are creating a lot of jobs in the field. Uh, 702 00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,440 Speaker 1: teach pendents are really interesting. I had to look them up. 703 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:04,160 Speaker 1: It's how you teach a robot to do things right. 704 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,360 Speaker 1: So inputs, you give robot certain inputs, kind of if ands, 705 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:12,279 Speaker 1: those kind of things, and it learns by what you 706 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,480 Speaker 1: what you tell to do. That's what the sequence of if. 707 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,920 Speaker 1: Then yeah, it's not learning. Is that how they teach 708 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 1: those robots on the radio how to wrap? Yep, you 709 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 1: are so proud of that joke. Makes me happy, But 710 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,440 Speaker 1: I probably got that wrong about teach pendance. Right to us, 711 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,280 Speaker 1: teach us about teach pendance. Yes, and our next shout 712 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,759 Speaker 1: out comes from Kali Lipkey, who says, I just found 713 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: your podcast while on a four hour road trip. Now 714 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: I listen at work. I've been really disappointed that you 715 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,200 Speaker 1: don't have an episode on Benghazi. Would love to hear 716 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: one on that that be the part of the attack 717 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: on the us uh US and facilities there the embassy. 718 00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:59,560 Speaker 1: I don't know that that could be a rough one, 719 00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:01,480 Speaker 1: but we can at least look into it see if 720 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,080 Speaker 1: there's something worth our time. Sure, what do you know 721 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:07,080 Speaker 1: about it? What did Hilldog know about it? What did yes? 722 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:11,480 Speaker 1: The okay, yes, the allegations of the emails right that 723 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:16,800 Speaker 1: we're released by wicked leaks regarding uh, the Hillary Clinton's 724 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,920 Speaker 1: campaign or Hillary Clinton's activities while serving as Secretary of 725 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:25,560 Speaker 1: State under the Obama administration. Yeah, response times too when 726 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,839 Speaker 1: everything was going down. There's a lot of stuff there. 727 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,400 Speaker 1: It's been this whole thing is he has been taken 728 00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,280 Speaker 1: up by the right side of the U. S. Government 729 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,680 Speaker 1: as like an attack. So I don't know, it might 730 00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,239 Speaker 1: be a little too sensitive, right yet. You know, I 731 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,440 Speaker 1: have not been as educated on that one as I 732 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,799 Speaker 1: should be. So I'll look into that and learn more, 733 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,840 Speaker 1: and uh, who knows what we'll find if we dig 734 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,920 Speaker 1: deep enough. Thank you so much writing CALLI. That concludes 735 00:46:55,000 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 1: our gosh, but that does not conclude this stuff they 736 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,239 Speaker 1: don't want you to know, I mean in this episode. Yes, 737 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,000 Speaker 1: this is clearly the end of the episode. You can 738 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 1: check out You can check out some other stuff we've 739 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:13,600 Speaker 1: done about international relations, about um disruptive rules of technology 740 00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,120 Speaker 1: by visiting our website stuff they Don't Want You to 741 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,400 Speaker 1: Know dot com. And that's the end of this classic episode. 742 00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:24,320 Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, 743 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:26,759 Speaker 1: you can get into contact with us in a number 744 00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,759 Speaker 1: of different ways. One of the best is to give 745 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,400 Speaker 1: us a call. Our number is one eight three three 746 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,480 Speaker 1: st d w y t K. If you don't want 747 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:36,399 Speaker 1: to do that, you can send us a good old 748 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:41,600 Speaker 1: fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heeart radio dot com. 749 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:43,880 Speaker 1: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production 750 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 751 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 752 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:51,400 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.