Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording
Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters
Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives.
Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The
Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure
Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I
Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season.
Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and
Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find
Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt
Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the
Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality,
Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl
Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Hello, Hello, Maltain Glovell. Here this year
Speaker 1: on Revisionist History, we're tackling more ambitious stories than ever,
Speaker 1: from how to fix education to what Americans get completely
Speaker 1: wrong about guns. We're debating with teenagers handing out awards
Speaker 1: and hunting for the perfect medical raccoon. This is, after all,
Speaker 1: a podcast about you overlooked and misunderstood. Find revisionist history
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Hello, this is Laverne Cox. I'm an actress,
Speaker 1: producer and host of The Laverne Cox Shack. Do you
Speaker 1: like your tea with lemon or honey? History making Broadway
Speaker 1: performer Alex Newell. When I sing the Holy Girl shows Up,
Speaker 1: that's my ministry and I know that well about me.
Speaker 1: That's the tea honey. Whoever it is, you can bet
Speaker 1: we get into it, my guest and I we go
Speaker 1: there every single time. I can't help it. Listen to
Speaker 1: The Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcast. This is the Pike
Speaker 1: to Massacre Return to Pike County Season two finale, What's Next?
Speaker 1: I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie's Studios with
Speaker 1: Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. For the finale of season two,
Speaker 1: we wanted to devote some time to answering listener questions.
Speaker 1: This season. You've really helped lead us down some interesting
Speaker 1: and unexpected roads. We culled through a bunch of submissions
Speaker 1: and picked out a few questions that we felt needed
Speaker 1: to be discussed. We also invited a group of our
Speaker 1: regular contributors to join reporters James Pilcher and Angette Levy,
Speaker 1: as well as forensics expert Joseph Morgan. Welcome to the finale.
Speaker 1: It's been quite a surprising season. It's been a shocking season,
Speaker 1: I think, yeah. I mean we started with a crazy
Speaker 1: turn of events, and now as we're learning more about
Speaker 1: the accused and the victims themselves, there's never a moment
Speaker 1: where I'm not surprised by this case and what happened.
Speaker 1: And I think as we learned more and as these
Speaker 1: trials start to happen, I think that's only going to continue.
Speaker 1: That is the thing that I think I loved most
Speaker 1: about this season is some of the unexpected turns that
Speaker 1: we took. Really, this show sort of unfolded real time, obviously,
Speaker 1: starting with the initial plea with Jake Wagner, but then
Speaker 1: also we've done a couple of stories that were guided
Speaker 1: by listeners that we dug into to really look at
Speaker 1: the area. We really spent a lot of time this
Speaker 1: week digging into questions that we've been following along the
Speaker 1: way over the course of both seasons. The three top
Speaker 1: things we got were, what are the details of what
Speaker 1: happened in Alaska? Where is Jake's wife Elizabeth? And who
Speaker 1: is the informant? And those questions drive each of us
Speaker 1: every day, and we do not know the answers, and
Speaker 1: we and journalists and experts have been digging, and the
Speaker 1: answers thus far have been impossible to come by, but
Speaker 1: that will not remain the case forever. We had a
Speaker 1: conversation today with two people that hopefully we can report
Speaker 1: back on that is mind blowing. And you know, that's
Speaker 1: a little bit of a piece of the puzzle. Right
Speaker 1: as we produce this podcast, as we produce anything, there
Speaker 1: are certain conversations that happen on the record, There are
Speaker 1: certain that happened off the record. Obviously, legally speaking, we
Speaker 1: have to have perfect releases in order for us to
Speaker 1: air certain pieces of information, you know, gossip, conjecture, things
Speaker 1: that are a matter of non fact, are not usable
Speaker 1: and because of the gag order at this exact second,
Speaker 1: it's maddening because we get to speak to certain people
Speaker 1: and we're not able to share that information. Mike from Asheville,
Speaker 1: North Carolina wrote, why did you guys do all these
Speaker 1: break off episodes like the Michael Moran story and the
Speaker 1: Curtis Francis story. Listeners wrote into us and gave us
Speaker 1: a heads up to be looking into these stories deeper,
Speaker 1: which was fascinating because truthfully, I don't know that we
Speaker 1: would have gone down that path had Listeners not reached
Speaker 1: out and alerted us to other stories that were happening
Speaker 1: in the area, which really does speak to the totality
Speaker 1: of crime in a really specific pocket of the country.
Speaker 1: They definitely spoke to this theme of injustice in the community,
Speaker 1: and I mean, these were happening in the rodent's backyard,
Speaker 1: and so to not mention them would feel like we
Speaker 1: were not telling the complete story of this community. And
Speaker 1: like the road in case, the Curtis Francis case is
Speaker 1: so complicated and so tragic, and the benefit of having
Speaker 1: a season two is really being able to explore some
Speaker 1: of these stories more. In the same way we were
Speaker 1: able to expand on the Rodents story at the Gilly story.
Speaker 1: We were able to do that with Curtis Francis, which
Speaker 1: is an honor to be able to do that. And
Speaker 1: so my question to you, James, so you report extensively
Speaker 1: on Michael Moran, why was that story important to you?
Speaker 1: And how, if it all, does it relate back to
Speaker 1: the road in case? As I said in the episode,
Speaker 1: and I still feel this that I feel I owe
Speaker 1: these women the truth that you know, there's was a
Speaker 1: part of me looking at it from my male, white
Speaker 1: privileged perspective that this stuff didn't really happen. You know,
Speaker 1: I had no idea, so I almost didn't believe it
Speaker 1: at first, and so when I found out it was true,
Speaker 1: it became like almost a mission of mine to say,
Speaker 1: you know what, more people need to know about this
Speaker 1: kind of thing. So that's for the Moran story specifically,
Speaker 1: and sex trafficking. I've done subsequent stories about sex trafficking
Speaker 1: in the numbers, state by state. So yeah, that's been
Speaker 1: a major focus of mine since I started reporting this story.
Speaker 1: As a legal disclaimer, we should note that Michael Moran
Speaker 1: has been arrested on charges including human trafficking and promoting prostitution.
Speaker 1: He has pleaded not guilty to all charges and denied
Speaker 1: any ties to sex trafficking. He's currently awaiting trial. How
Speaker 1: it relates back, you know, I wouldn't say that. You know,
Speaker 1: there's not a direct correlation between the Wagner's and Michael
Speaker 1: Moran or the Rodents and Michael Moran. I think it
Speaker 1: just gets to this aspect of rural America that most
Speaker 1: people don't see, and that law enforcement in that part
Speaker 1: of the country and these parts of the country just
Speaker 1: isn't equipped to handle these multifaceted, in depth, complicated investigations.
Speaker 1: And you guys covered it when you covered the Hopper
Speaker 1: Road episode. I completely admire what Jodie Barr did with
Speaker 1: the Hopper Roads story and how even if they don't
Speaker 1: get a conviction, at least people have an understanding of
Speaker 1: what might have happened. Out to Jodie Barr for what
Speaker 1: he did in that story, because he really did. He
Speaker 1: changed people's lives, you know exactly. You know. I saw
Speaker 1: something today. I won't name the publication, but there's a
Speaker 1: story out there saying that true crime is booming and whatever.
Speaker 1: But it is nothing more than a love letter to
Speaker 1: law enforcement. And I want to write the author and said,
Speaker 1: have you listened to any of this? Have you listened
Speaker 1: to some of the stuff that you guys have done
Speaker 1: and some other of my colleagues have done. No, this
Speaker 1: is about unsolved. Why isn't this mystery solved? So I
Speaker 1: completely You know, there are people who think, oh, true
Speaker 1: crime is nothing more than making the cops look good. Well, no,
Speaker 1: I completely disagree with that. It's as much about holding
Speaker 1: the cops accountable as it is about telling the stories
Speaker 1: of the victims. And by the way things go away
Speaker 1: in the night, if nobody's talking about something, it just
Speaker 1: gets swept under the rug. And likely when you take
Speaker 1: a closer look, which we get the benefit of doing
Speaker 1: in a podcast of again the totality of the abuse
Speaker 1: of power, or a real look at how things are
Speaker 1: being covered and are they being covered enough? And are
Speaker 1: these cases being highlighted enough? You know, oftentimes listen, investigators
Speaker 1: are investigating as much as they can and as fast
Speaker 1: as they can. We get the benefit of being a
Speaker 1: little bit courtside and taking even a closer look, with
Speaker 1: the benefit of tons of time in The hope really
Speaker 1: always is to hopefully move the needle to either move
Speaker 1: a case forward and or to make sure it doesn't
Speaker 1: happen again. Zach from Wilmington, Delaware asked have there been
Speaker 1: efforts to reach back out to the Wagner family members
Speaker 1: whatever happened to Deray, the Wagner relative from season one.
Speaker 1: We've spoken to Deray numerous times since the hearing. She
Speaker 1: was one of our first phone calls, and it is
Speaker 1: obviously very raw for her. I mean, she spent, as
Speaker 1: listeners know, a lot of time proclaiming her family's innocence,
Speaker 1: and Deray I think is heartbroken, and that is the
Speaker 1: only way to put it. And she declined to participate
Speaker 1: this season because I think she is not sure how
Speaker 1: to feel and how even if she was sure how
Speaker 1: to feel, how to even explain that to the masses.
Speaker 1: Could you imagine anything more horrifying? Of course, we defend
Speaker 1: our families, and my understanding was I'm not sure if
Speaker 1: Deray had directly spoken to Jake, but I know that
Speaker 1: Jake was giving the impression to at least his grandmother
Speaker 1: that he was innocent, and so they were shocked that
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, he's in the courtroom saying the
Speaker 1: opposite of that, So you know what I spoke to
Speaker 1: Dry the day of the hearing. She was confused. She thought,
Speaker 1: did someone put him up to this? Is he not
Speaker 1: in the right frame of mind. She wasn't sure what
Speaker 1: was going on because this was not the person that
Speaker 1: she had known for his entire life. So my question, Anginette,
Speaker 1: is what has your experience been reaching out to the
Speaker 1: Wagner family members if you have, well, I've only really
Speaker 1: reached out to the lawyer's Billy Wagner's lawyer got back
Speaker 1: to me very politely and just you know, said that
Speaker 1: anytime there's a crime with multiple defendants, you know that
Speaker 1: one of them may or may not, So you don't
Speaker 1: see that there's always that chance and they're going to
Speaker 1: look at the case that type of thing. I didn't
Speaker 1: really reach out to Frederica or anything like that. Anytime
Speaker 1: I've done that, it's not been fruitful. So I just
Speaker 1: didn't see any point I've reached after in the past,
Speaker 1: and she doesn't say anything. Frederica Wagner had been very
Speaker 1: vocal and speaking to the press, and as of today,
Speaker 1: she has not said one thing publicly about her family
Speaker 1: since Jake has played out. So I'm curious what's going
Speaker 1: on with her personally and also what the implications will
Speaker 1: be in the upcoming trials. Same with Rita Joe Nukam,
Speaker 1: Angela's mother. I'm personally fascinated by the grandmothers. Frederica seems
Speaker 1: to be a complicated person. I mean, Frederica, as we know,
Speaker 1: is a staple in the community in terms of her
Speaker 1: presence with real estate and businesses. I just think about
Speaker 1: the ripple effects of the crime and how it's going
Speaker 1: to affect Pike County for years to come. Angie from
Speaker 1: Carl's Bad New Mexico wants to know how covering this story,
Speaker 1: how has it affected you personally or professionally. I would say,
Speaker 1: I think it makes me think about trust, certainly about
Speaker 1: who you have in your life and the relationships you have,
Speaker 1: Because whether it's Jake and Hannah Roden's relationship or it's
Speaker 1: now Jake Wagner and the rest of his family, I
Speaker 1: think it is a little bit be careful who you trust. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is one of those real cases of the boogeyman
Speaker 1: is not out there, it's in your circle. And not
Speaker 1: only in your circle. These were people that were really
Speaker 1: close friends, the Wagners, and the Rodents. We know we're
Speaker 1: extremely tight, way more than was earlier reported. So I
Speaker 1: think for all of us, that's been the nauseating element here.
Speaker 1: That's been the part that you can't kind of shake,
Speaker 1: where you think you'd have a sixth sense about it,
Speaker 1: or you would meet somebody and you would know they're
Speaker 1: bad news, they're going to bring very bad things to
Speaker 1: our family. Yet that wasn't the case at all. They
Speaker 1: were at the same wedding, hugging and chummy and you know,
Speaker 1: really shared beautiful times together. So at what point does
Speaker 1: that tip over? I think has been a real fascination
Speaker 1: of ours. And then I'd oppose the same thing to you, Joseph.
Speaker 1: Let me just say in two thy sixteen, I've been
Speaker 1: you know, kind of neck deep and covering crime for
Speaker 1: a while now on a lot of networks and whatnot,
Speaker 1: really big cases, and there there were a lot of
Speaker 1: big cases in twenty sixteen. But I have to confess
Speaker 1: when the road In case hit, I was actually covering
Speaker 1: it with HLN and Nancy Grace and we've gone on
Speaker 1: to you know, to talk about it. Nancy and I
Speaker 1: have extensively on air and particularly at that time, and
Speaker 1: one of the things that struck me about it being
Speaker 1: a guy that comes from these rural routes like I do,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of country mouse comes a big city
Speaker 1: kind of thing. I've never seen or heard of anything
Speaker 1: like that in my entire life. I was just amazed.
Speaker 1: And then when you go out to those locations, you
Speaker 1: get out and you look at this property and I
Speaker 1: don't know the word, I'd say emptiness, but there's a
Speaker 1: vacancy to it. And you know that you get out
Speaker 1: there and you see what may have been there and
Speaker 1: it's no longer there Isn't that really really something that
Speaker 1: kind of resonates with you, you know how how it
Speaker 1: leaves this this huge scar throughout that community. You know,
Speaker 1: this this vacancy. But yet it's it's haunted. It's haunted.
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm not saying that in a sense of,
Speaker 1: you know, some kind of ghost tale or something. I'm
Speaker 1: saying it's a haunted place in this sense. This is
Speaker 1: a kind of event that years from now, kids are
Speaker 1: going to be sitting around campfires, you know, fifty years
Speaker 1: from now, and they're going to be saying, hey, you
Speaker 1: want to hear a ghost story. You want to hear
Speaker 1: about the worst thing that ever happened. And so right
Speaker 1: now it's a very urgent thing. We're waiting on trials
Speaker 1: and all that sort of thing. But then it leaps
Speaker 1: over and into into the mythology of a place, and
Speaker 1: that's going to happen. That will happen, and this will
Speaker 1: be something that will be rememberable. We're going to take
Speaker 1: a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. Oh.
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The
Speaker 1: Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.
Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and
Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted and to the point she
Speaker 1: went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes
Speaker 1: the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob,
Speaker 1: us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him
Speaker 1: to pay for his crime. He needed to be put
Speaker 1: to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw
Speaker 1: him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call
Speaker 1: him and I would say, I know you killed my sister.
Speaker 1: I will always is hound you and haunt you. You
Speaker 1: can listen to the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. LA's reputation not so great.
Speaker 1: People from LA will have a very superficial, nice conversation
Speaker 1: with you, and they won't lift a finger to help
Speaker 1: you to people represent vapidity, stops that like oh the
Speaker 1: best calls like oh shoot leave. As someone born and
Speaker 1: raised here, I can tell you there's much more to
Speaker 1: LA than this. My name is James Kim, and I'm
Speaker 1: the creator of a new anthology fiction podcast, call You
Speaker 1: Feeling This. It's ten different stories about La and the
Speaker 1: real people who make up this city. What did you
Speaker 1: listen to my message? We're just trying to get bought.
Speaker 1: I think I was just freaking out because I'm scared
Speaker 1: by connecting with each other. I'm going to be a father.
Speaker 1: Ye Are you Feeling This? A fiction pod cast mixtape
Speaker 1: about love. Listen to it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcast. She's a Hollywood Western.
Speaker 1: She's Jack Harrouac, but in a nap dress with braids.
Speaker 1: She is one of the most important American children's authors
Speaker 1: of the twentieth century. She's the basis for its television show,
Speaker 1: still watched around the world. Somebody somewhere is watching A
Speaker 1: Little as the Birth. She's been called a hero, a racist,
Speaker 1: a feminist, and a propagandist. I think the harm is
Speaker 1: too great because it's just one more thing that Native
Speaker 1: children have to endure. She is Laura Ingles Wilder, author
Speaker 1: of the book series Little House on the Prairie. As
Speaker 1: a kid, I idolized Laura, and last summer I went
Speaker 1: on the road in search of the real Laura. We're
Speaker 1: literally on the prairie. What I found was a complicated
Speaker 1: person alongside the complicated country she represents. I'm Glennis McNicol
Speaker 1: in This is Wilder. Listen to Wilder on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and
Speaker 1: welcome to Bad Manners. This is the podcast that takes
Speaker 1: you inside Britain's stately homes and tells all the tales
Speaker 1: the guide books don't. My name is Tom Horton and
Speaker 1: I'll be your host. Britain is riddled with the big houses,
Speaker 1: from crumbling castles, massive mansions and stately piles. Bigger than
Speaker 1: Buckingham Palace. As a comedian, I'm not really bothered about
Speaker 1: the facts and figures. I just want the juicy stuff.
Speaker 1: So I'm on a mission to find out the frightening,
Speaker 1: filthy and downright jaw dropping stories of these stately homes
Speaker 1: and the people in them. This podcast ventures deep inside
Speaker 1: some of Britain's most incredible and outrageous buildings to spill
Speaker 1: the tea on the scandalous, scary, shocking, and hilarious tales.
Speaker 1: So if you want to get historically horrid, royally raucous
Speaker 1: and down some dirty look though that, listen to Bad
Speaker 1: Manners on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Anginette. Has covering this case had an
Speaker 1: impact on any way you report now or has it
Speaker 1: affected you personally or professionally. I think that's hard to answer.
Speaker 1: I think you know, some stories change the way you
Speaker 1: report or make you look at things differently. You know.
Speaker 1: I kind of approached this like I approached any story.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to know the truth and figure out
Speaker 1: what happened and try to help you know, if we
Speaker 1: could bring some light to what happened. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: it was very sad to me. I mean, I it
Speaker 1: was just it's just awful when you would watch the
Speaker 1: family and go individuals and stuff like that, and you
Speaker 1: would see what they we're going through. And there were
Speaker 1: sometimes where I felt like the family wasn't treated very
Speaker 1: well by some media. You know. I feel like I
Speaker 1: tried to always treat them, the family, the Roden family,
Speaker 1: with kindness, as I do everybody on a story with
Speaker 1: unless they're you know, like a politician and then you
Speaker 1: chase them these straight or whatever. But I just feel
Speaker 1: like it maybe gave me a greater appreciation for the
Speaker 1: loss that people really suffer, just because of the children
Speaker 1: involved in this, of course, but just you know, just
Speaker 1: the senseless This was like truly you hear people say,
Speaker 1: well it was senseless, Well, and all killings are pretty
Speaker 1: much senseless, but this was really really on another level,
Speaker 1: and so I think the humanity just talking to Leonard
Speaker 1: Manly and seeing the pain that it brought him and
Speaker 1: his family, and seeing Geneva Roden, and you could just
Speaker 1: see the pain on her face when she would come
Speaker 1: to court, just dutifully coming to court. You know, there's
Speaker 1: no elevator out there at the Pike County courthouse, she
Speaker 1: have to like walk up the stairs each time with
Speaker 1: her cane, and she has a bad foot, And in
Speaker 1: telling this story, just really so try to focus the
Speaker 1: best you can on the loss, or at least bring
Speaker 1: that through in the storytelling. I feel like I just
Speaker 1: I learned something from every story I cover and it
Speaker 1: probably changes me, you know in some ways, you know,
Speaker 1: you learn and e Bold, I know a couple of
Speaker 1: you are parents, and it sounds so cliche, but it's
Speaker 1: so true, Like even you know, when I have my
Speaker 1: mind in this case particularly, it really makes you grateful
Speaker 1: for what you have, knowing what can be lost like that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I would agree with you one hundred percent
Speaker 1: on that. And I feel for those kids. Obviously I
Speaker 1: don't know any of these children, but just the thought
Speaker 1: of children growing up not knowing their parents now because
Speaker 1: of this that's going to happen. I try to keep
Speaker 1: my emotions separate, but it's hard. You know, sometimes you
Speaker 1: come home and you look at your own children and
Speaker 1: you just think, God, what would happen if my child
Speaker 1: was less because of that? And you try to really
Speaker 1: put yourself in that plenty, and it's just I can't
Speaker 1: even imagine. I just hope this kid are going to
Speaker 1: grow up and be okay. You know, we get up
Speaker 1: in the morning every day and think about people who
Speaker 1: we've never met, and think about families who we never
Speaker 1: will outside of the interviews that we have the benefit
Speaker 1: of doing. And I can speak for all of us
Speaker 1: to say, if you speak to a person, whether it's
Speaker 1: on a phone or on a zoom or eye to
Speaker 1: eye in the same room, and their entire family has
Speaker 1: been slaughtered, and they can sit before us and tell
Speaker 1: their tale and have the wherewithal and the composure to
Speaker 1: be able to push on in their world. Certainly we
Speaker 1: can tell their stories, and we also can push on
Speaker 1: in our world. And I think that's very inspiring in
Speaker 1: a way. We've been wildly inspired by this case in
Speaker 1: ways I can quite describe. The Rodent family has become
Speaker 1: a piece of our DNA. Do we know for sure
Speaker 1: George's trial will be next and do we know what
Speaker 1: the order is yet? All we know is that George's
Speaker 1: trial is the only one who's been scheduled. They might
Speaker 1: schedule Mom and Dad earlier than that. They could still
Speaker 1: do that. They very well could still do that, But
Speaker 1: as of right now, the only one we know of
Speaker 1: is next spring, we're going to have a trial unless
Speaker 1: there's a plea deal. These prosecutors have been dealing with
Speaker 1: this case for years, so I assume they've got some
Speaker 1: type of game plan, or they think they know who
Speaker 1: could go next, or who they want to potentially offer
Speaker 1: something too next. I mean, I'm sure they have a plan.
Speaker 1: I don't know that they have a plan. I'm just
Speaker 1: kind of surmising, you know, I'm sure they've thought about
Speaker 1: this over the years. I think it's so compelling to
Speaker 1: better understand how one trial will influence the other. It
Speaker 1: is unusual to have four now trials of family members
Speaker 1: back to back, so a man in one trial of
Speaker 1: course impacts the other, and the bombs that come along
Speaker 1: with that, particularly Jake Wadner facing off for the first time,
Speaker 1: as now stipulated in his plea agreement, that he will
Speaker 1: testify against his own mother, his own brother, his own father,
Speaker 1: is mind blowing. There's no way this can play out
Speaker 1: in any universe that is not shocking. If they are
Speaker 1: turning on each other, that is a piece of the
Speaker 1: equation that we really never thought would happen until Jake
Speaker 1: appeared at that hearing. How do you throw your son
Speaker 1: under the bus, And how does your son throw his
Speaker 1: own mother under the legal bus. That is a legal mess,
Speaker 1: and I'm so curious to see how it plays out.
Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back
Speaker 1: in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting
Speaker 1: a podcast ask called The girl Friends. Back in the
Speaker 1: nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated
Speaker 1: the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages,
Speaker 1: he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He
Speaker 1: was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't.
Speaker 1: He shouted into the point that she went unconscious. Bob
Speaker 1: could lie about anything, but only takes the one time
Speaker 1: when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends
Speaker 1: know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay
Speaker 1: for his crime. He needed to be put to justice.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now,
Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I
Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will
Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to
Speaker 1: The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Ella's reputation not so great. People
Speaker 1: from out I will have a very superficial, nice conversation
Speaker 1: with you, and I won't lift a finger to help you.
Speaker 1: To La, people represent vapidity, stops that like oh, the best,
Speaker 1: calls like ah Shoot. As someone born and raised here,
Speaker 1: I can tell you there's much more to La than this.
Speaker 1: My name is James Kim and I'm the creator of
Speaker 1: a new anthology fiction podcast called You Feeling This. It's
Speaker 1: ten different stories about La and the real people who
Speaker 1: make up this city. What did you listen to my message?
Speaker 1: Who were just trying to get bought? I think I
Speaker 1: was just freaking out because I'm scared by connecting with
Speaker 1: each other. I'm going to be a father. Are You
Speaker 1: Feeling This? A fiction podcast mixtape about love. Listen to
Speaker 1: it on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: get your podcast. Hello and welcome to Bad Manners. This
Speaker 1: is the podcast that takes you inside Britain's stately homes
Speaker 1: and tells all the tales the guide books don't. My
Speaker 1: name is Tom Burton and I'll be your host. Britain
Speaker 1: is riddled with the big houses, from crumbling castles, massive
Speaker 1: mansions and stately piles bigger than Buckingham Palace. As a comedian,
Speaker 1: I'm not really bothered about the facts and figures. I
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Speaker 1: stories of these stately homes and the people in them.
Speaker 1: This podcast ventures deep inside some of Britain's most incredible
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Speaker 1: Royally raucus and Downton dirty, look no further. Listen to
Speaker 1: Bad Manners on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Colleen from Aspen, Colorado asked, what
Speaker 1: do you think is going to be the end result
Speaker 1: of the case when all is said and done? Are
Speaker 1: there going to be any more surprises? I would predict
Speaker 1: at this point they're all found guilty, and I think
Speaker 1: there's probably no plea deal and we're going to see
Speaker 1: these trials happen one after the other, starting with George.
Speaker 1: I think it'll be starting with Angela Wagner and George
Speaker 1: will follow and Angela's trial will set the stage for
Speaker 1: the remaining two. If Jake is lying, Is that a
Speaker 1: possibility to anybody that Jake is lying? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, if what they said is true over that
Speaker 1: ten to eighteen hour confession, if that's indeed you know
Speaker 1: the story, and he said it was all true, and
Speaker 1: he led them the murder weapons and the vehicle used,
Speaker 1: that's some pretty compelling evidence. So you know, there may
Speaker 1: be another domino or two to fall, and maybe there
Speaker 1: will be somebody that fix it out and says, now
Speaker 1: I'm going to roll the dice, can go to trial.
Speaker 1: I said it before they're either, you know, with Jake's deal,
Speaker 1: that's parent leaves off the table. So you either plead
Speaker 1: guilty and get life in prison, or you roll the
Speaker 1: dice and get convicted and get life in prison, or
Speaker 1: you roll the dice and get a hung jury. So
Speaker 1: but kind of how I look at it, James, will
Speaker 1: there be any more surprises? Well, I think it depends
Speaker 1: on your definition of surprise. Jake pleading guilty a few
Speaker 1: months ago that was a surprise. At this point with
Speaker 1: that on the table, I don't think anything would be surprising.
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think someone deciding to stick it out
Speaker 1: to say yeah, I'm going to go to trial would
Speaker 1: be surprising, or pleading out would be surprising. I think
Speaker 1: it's going to depend on how hard and which we
Speaker 1: link the prosecutors decide to push on where they see
Speaker 1: the weak links, if they see a week link, I mean,
Speaker 1: they're all being kept in separate prisons, and they're all
Speaker 1: being kept with separate counsel. Now those counsel can talk
Speaker 1: to each other, but the Wagoners can't. So I don't
Speaker 1: know at this point. Nothing surprised would surprised me in
Speaker 1: this case anymore apart from they went to trial and
Speaker 1: got a not guilty verdict, that would be a shocker.
Speaker 1: A really really sincere thanks for your time, information, passion,
Speaker 1: all of it really on behalf of Katie Studios. Just
Speaker 1: thank you to the listeners. You know, we hit number
Speaker 1: one in all categories because people kept tuning in and
Speaker 1: as we talked about, led us in the right direction
Speaker 1: in terms of other things to be discussing and unpacking.
Speaker 1: So thank you. As we bring season two to a close,
Speaker 1: one piece of the puzzle has been solved. Jake Wagner
Speaker 1: changed his leaded guilty and said he was responsible for
Speaker 1: five of the eight Rodent family member deaths. What plead
Speaker 1: you wished to hit her? In JELF seven Your Heart.
Speaker 1: Jake Wagner faces life behind bars and has disclosed details
Speaker 1: of the plot to kill the Rodent family to authorities.
Speaker 1: He told us letters to discover some evidence that had
Speaker 1: yet to be recovered, specifically the weapons that were used
Speaker 1: in these offenses. He's also implicated his family and the
Speaker 1: Gruesome murders. Billy Wagner, Angela Wagner, and George Wagner the
Speaker 1: Fourth all still face charges, including aggravated murder. Jake Wagner
Speaker 1: has actually agreed to testify against his mother, his father,
Speaker 1: and his older brother, while Angela, Billy, and George Wagner
Speaker 1: continue to maintain their innocence. Questions remain. Angela Wagner was
Speaker 1: a suspected master mind if the conspiracy to kill eight
Speaker 1: members of the Rodent and Gillie family. Prosecutors say the
Speaker 1: Wagners lived an insular life focused on control of children
Speaker 1: and the young women who entered their lives. But with
Speaker 1: judgment day for Accu's brother, George Wagner the Fourth just
Speaker 1: around the corner, George Wagner's trial date has been said
Speaker 1: for April fourth, twenty two. What will happen in the
Speaker 1: meantime is anyone's guests. Will there be another plea deal?
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see where this case goes from here.
Speaker 1: Now they have someone who is cooperating, they have someone
Speaker 1: who can give them specific evidence. What exactly is Jake
Speaker 1: going to say in the stand. It's going to be
Speaker 1: interesting to watch what happens with a few Could grandmother
Speaker 1: Rita Nucam make an appearance on the witness stand. Nucom
Speaker 1: is a notary, and prosecutors say she forged guardianship documents
Speaker 1: three weeks before the Rodents were murdered. The fine details
Speaker 1: of this plea agreement are under sealed with the court,
Speaker 1: so it's still a question about whether or not Newcome
Speaker 1: will be required to testify at the trials, or will
Speaker 1: grandmother freder Rico Wagner end up back in court. The
Speaker 1: seventy seven year old Wagner faced two felony charges, obstructing
Speaker 1: justice and perjury. I've never lied about anything. I was innocent.
Speaker 1: They had no evidence against me. She can be charged
Speaker 1: again in this case later. Perhaps most importantly, will the victims,
Speaker 1: families finally see closure in the case. Our family will
Speaker 1: never stop trying to bring whoever did this to justice.
Speaker 1: One thing is for sure, There's much more on the
Speaker 1: horizon in this case just keeps on coming. I still
Speaker 1: wonder if there was much more to this that we
Speaker 1: don't know, and what would drive someone to do what
Speaker 1: happened here. There's still to me a whole lot of
Speaker 1: un answer questions here. More on that next season, but
Speaker 1: check in next week when we'll be bringing you a
Speaker 1: special bonus episode before the Break. For more information on
Speaker 1: the case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked and Massacre Returned to Pike
Speaker 1: County is executive produced by Stephanie Lydecker and me Courtney Armstrong.
Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional
Speaker 1: producing by Jeff Shane, Andrew Becker and Chris Graves. The
Speaker 1: Piked and Massacre Returned to Pike County is a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting
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Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband.
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Speaker 1: You can listen to The girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app,
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Speaker 1: maltoin Globo. Here. This year on Revisionist History, we're tackling
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