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Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory, Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your

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Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic Patrick. Spring training

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Speaker 1: is right around the corner. We are recording this on

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Speaker 1: a Friday. This will go up over the weekend and

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Speaker 1: I'm heading out to Arizona on Tuesday. Sorry to make

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Speaker 1: everyone jealous that's sitting looking out their windows right now

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Speaker 1: with the snow yet again, more snow, but.

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Speaker 2: Baseball is here.

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Speaker 1: Spring training is about to start a great off season,

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Speaker 1: a fun off season for the Cubs, and I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, if we're going to talk about spring training storylines,

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Speaker 1: part of it is what more are they going to do?

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Speaker 1: And when I say that, I'm not talking about adding.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about are they going to, you know, extend

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Speaker 1: the window of this team or try and get one

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Speaker 1: of these young guys on an extension, whether it's Nico.

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Speaker 1: I think the two names that we can really zero

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Speaker 1: in on. There's there's others, and maybe they're surprised in there,

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Speaker 1: but the two names are Peak Row Armstrong and Nico Horner.

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Speaker 1: Two very different situations, but two guys that I think

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Speaker 1: both you and I and many people are going to

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Speaker 1: be like keeping our ears and eyes open. Is something

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Speaker 1: going on here? Can they get anything done here? Will

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Speaker 1: they try with Nico? I think we're we're pretty sure

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Speaker 1: they'll at least approach PCA. What will they do with Nico?

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Speaker 1: And can they get anything done with either of these players?

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Speaker 3: Certainly different contractual situations and very different personalities. But I

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Speaker 3: think if if you're a fan or even someone covering

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Speaker 3: the team, you've seen that they represent a lot of

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Speaker 3: like what the Cubs aspire.

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Speaker 4: To be and a lot of their best.

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Speaker 3: In terms of just competitiveness on field performance, how they

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Speaker 3: handle themselves off the field. They both seem to get

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Speaker 3: the Wrigleyville experience, and I think fans would be very

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Speaker 3: excited if both of them are extended. I think they

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Speaker 3: would be very perturbed if Nico was somehow traded, which

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Speaker 3: is not our operating assumption at all. That we fully

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Speaker 3: expect Neco to play out this final year with the Cubs.

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Speaker 3: It's just a matter of, you know, are you going

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Speaker 3: to keep building around Nico and we'll see what next

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Speaker 3: year's for agent class ultimately finally looks like.

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Speaker 4: But he's got to be at the top.

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Speaker 3: Of the list for all teams, and certainly in terms

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Speaker 3: of fit for the Cubs, he's probably either.

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Speaker 4: One or one A.

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Speaker 3: So do you try to get ahead of that and

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Speaker 3: take that distraction or uncertainty off the table. And there's

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Speaker 3: not much of a rush with Pete, but if both

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Speaker 3: sides want this to happen, and I think both sides

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Speaker 3: are at least open to the idea of seeing if

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Speaker 3: it could happen, like why not? And the price has

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Speaker 3: certainly gone up since the last time we know that

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Speaker 3: they had serious discussions. I'm not sure exactly what transpired

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Speaker 3: sort of you know, during last season, but around that

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Speaker 3: Tokyo series they exchange proposals, and this was before Pete

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Speaker 3: became an All star, you know, a first half MVP candidate.

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Speaker 3: You know, he's certainly shown flashes of what he can do,

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Speaker 3: and that's enormously valuable. And even like the you know,

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Speaker 3: ten percent outcome of Pete crow Arms Trump's career, it's

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Speaker 3: still like a highly productive, maybe like ten year big leaguer.

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Speaker 3: So when you're I don't know how they put a

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Speaker 3: number on this, I don't obviously don't know if it

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Speaker 3: will happen, but it's certainly worth exploring, and spring training

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Speaker 3: is the time.

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Speaker 4: To do that.

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Speaker 1: When when Jed Hoyer started building for this team, right,

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Speaker 1: I think the first piece is probably Dansby Swanson if

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Speaker 1: I'm remembering my timeline correctly here as far as you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously Nico was around before Dansby.

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Speaker 2: Halp was around before Dansby.

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Speaker 1: But I mean the idea of building a winning team

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Speaker 1: and bringing in Dansby Swanson was winners, guys that like

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Speaker 1: put in the work, dedicated, like good makeup, great makeup,

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Speaker 1: potential leaders, but also like when it comes to on

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Speaker 1: the field, it's defense, defense, defense, defense. It's what Jed

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Speaker 1: has been. Jed saw how they won in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: They had a great pitching staff, really great youth, lot

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Speaker 1: of offensive talent, but that was one of the best

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Speaker 1: defensive teams we've seen, and I think he wants that

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Speaker 1: he has built a great defense. Yet again, why not

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Speaker 1: keep that around. It's not easy to find players like

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Speaker 1: Nico Horner. I don't think he's it easily replaceable, especially

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Speaker 1: that defense. He is, if not the best, one of

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Speaker 1: the best defensive second basemen in baseball, and you pair

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Speaker 1: him with Peco Armstrong in center field and dance by

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Speaker 1: Swanson in shortstop. And that's how you build this like

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Speaker 1: elite backbone to your defense and everything kind of falls

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Speaker 1: in around it.

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Speaker 2: And you said it about the future free agent classes.

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Speaker 1: There's not that much talent out there and the system

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Speaker 1: isn't good enough to just say like, oh, we'll replace

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Speaker 1: go Horner. It makes a lot of sense to start talking.

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Speaker 1: Whether he wants to listen, I think he'll listen. Whether

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Speaker 1: they can come to a deal, that's another story. And

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Speaker 1: with Pete, you know, I think this is something that

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Speaker 1: you know, we'll see where the momentum goes. But I

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Speaker 1: do think like it has felt like this is something

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Speaker 1: that you know, both sides are just like there's no

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Speaker 1: animosity there, nothing bad happened last year.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of respect on going both ways.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I don't want to say it feels inevitable because

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Speaker 1: I don't, like there's not momentum there yet. But it

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel like something outlandish. It feels like it's very doable.

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Speaker 1: They just like what the financials?

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Speaker 2: Look, what is it? What are the comps now? Right?

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Speaker 1: I think that they were like Ezekiel Tovar and a

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Speaker 1: couple other names.

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Speaker 2: Last year.

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Speaker 1: I think it may be different now, how different Gorbyn

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Speaker 1: Carroll I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Gorbyn Carrol was like put together the full season.

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Speaker 1: This is still like, you know, we'll see where Pete is,

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Speaker 1: Like what what Pete? Where Pete values himself and where

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Speaker 1: the Cubs value Pete? Can they come together as something.

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Speaker 1: I just think it's it's like it has to be

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Speaker 1: something where like our antennas are up for until opening

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Speaker 1: day essentially, and maybe even like it drips into a

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Speaker 1: couple of days after opening day. I don't think this

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Speaker 1: is the type of thing that lingers deep into the season.

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Speaker 2: We'll we'll see, we'll see.

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Speaker 1: Where everyone is on this and where the players and

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Speaker 1: the agents in the front office are. But I think

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Speaker 1: it's a storyline that that's inevitable to be talked about

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Speaker 1: all all spring long.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think before Pete's breakout first half, Corbyn Carroll

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Speaker 3: was a comp you know, his agency is the same

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Speaker 3: agency that represents Pete. But yes, Carroll's resume, you know,

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Speaker 3: is stronger. But he also plays with the Diamondbacks. And

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Speaker 3: like if Corbyn Carroll walked down Michigan Avenue, would anyone

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Speaker 3: recognize him terrific player, but like Pete is the engine

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Speaker 3: that is going to drive the Wrigley Fields machine over

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Speaker 3: the next several years. And I go back to something

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Speaker 3: I think David Ross said sort of off handedly years ago,

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Speaker 3: like good everyday position players are hard to find. That's

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Speaker 3: why they make so much money. And whether it's Nico,

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Speaker 3: whether it's Pete, or even whether it's match out, we haven't.

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Speaker 3: He hasn't done it like for the full season, like

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Speaker 3: on both sides of the ball and into the playoffs yet.

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Speaker 3: But he's another lingering piece to this offseason. Will they

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Speaker 3: trade him? The Boston Red Sox are the team that

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Speaker 3: everyone keeps talking about. I don't know if they're the

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Speaker 3: only team or just the team that has the most

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Speaker 3: reporters covering them. But we talked about the previous episode

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Speaker 3: a lot of shared connections between these two front offices.

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Speaker 4: They're always talking and.

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Speaker 3: I guess the other component here of there isn't really

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Speaker 3: a finish line to the offseason, it seems like. And

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Speaker 3: while we don't expect a Cody Bellinger deal or a

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Speaker 3: Alex Bregman style offer being thrown out in February, there

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Speaker 3: are still lots of free agents out there, and I

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Speaker 3: think once you get to the Sloan Park Complex, you'll

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Speaker 3: be asking about this, We'll be sending texts about this

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Speaker 3: of like what else is out there? And the team

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Speaker 3: looks solid but still a little bit incomplete, whether it's

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Speaker 3: adding more pitching, another credible position player who may have

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Speaker 3: to come off the bench or fill multiple roles, like,

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Speaker 3: it still feels like there's something else out there for

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Speaker 3: the Cubs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the bench can be beefed up. Depth is always

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Speaker 1: an issue. You never can have enough depth. You're always

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Speaker 1: planning for something to go wrong and you have to

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Speaker 1: have a solution.

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Speaker 2: For that.

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Speaker 1: So I don't think they can stop thinking in that manner.

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Speaker 1: Not when you're at this point of your contention cycle.

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Speaker 1: It is all about what can go wrong and how

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Speaker 1: do we solve for that. Let's get ahead of it.

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Speaker 1: And I think they're thinking like that, and I think

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Speaker 1: you're right, it's not going to be. It doesn't feel

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Speaker 1: like other springs where it's like, man, there's this lingering,

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Speaker 1: huge name that that we're just going to have to

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Speaker 1: spend weeks following around and digging into. But it does

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Speaker 1: feel like there's more work to be done.

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Speaker 2: I don't think Jed Hoyer.

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Speaker 1: I don't think the message he's sending to his front

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Speaker 1: office is that like, Okay, time to relax, our job

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Speaker 1: is done. Let the players play that They're not at

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Speaker 1: that point of the offseason yet the guy that he

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Speaker 1: did bring in, I think it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: storyline all spring, the big name they brought it, maybe

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Speaker 1: all season. I found it fascinating last season how quickly

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Speaker 1: Justin Turner was kind of able to become like this

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Speaker 1: leader and like how the young players and you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it's encouraged by coaches, but I also think

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Speaker 1: it's just like there are certain guys that have this

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Speaker 1: natural ability where where guys gravitate to them, and I

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Speaker 1: think Turner did that last year. Now Turner didn't. Turner

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Speaker 1: was fine for what he was, for what they needed

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Speaker 1: him to be. He was supposed to hit lefties, and

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Speaker 1: he did that well enough. He wasn't an everyday player,

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Speaker 1: he was not the player he was at his peak

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Speaker 1: a lot more as expected of Alex Bregman on the field.

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Speaker 1: But I do think we may see and I think

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Speaker 1: it's something when you're in spring, when I'm in spring,

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Speaker 1: we're going to be watching how do the young players,

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Speaker 1: especially even veterans. How do the coaches beaver at, like

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Speaker 1: is Bregman going to be going out of his way,

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Speaker 1: like coming like watching other people's vps giving thoughts.

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Speaker 2: We may not see all of it.

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Speaker 1: Some of it will be done in the cage, some

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Speaker 1: of it will be like private moments and we'll hear

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Speaker 1: about it. But like, these are the types of things

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Speaker 1: that that you know, I think he was brought in for,

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Speaker 1: and like he obviously going to reiterate it. It's the

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Speaker 1: stuff on the field that he was brought in for,

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Speaker 1: that he was paid for. But it's all these it's

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Speaker 1: just going the extra mile to be a team leader

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Speaker 1: and to be a great teammate that is given him

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Speaker 1: this reputation, and it sounds like it's well deserved. I

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Speaker 1: think watching it in action is going to be fascinating.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think there's gonna be any sort of

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Speaker 3: like definitive like judgments about you know, bregman Is personality

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Speaker 3: or what. But it's always interesting, right you walk into

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Speaker 3: the clubhouse and it's like where is his lock who

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Speaker 3: has lockers around him? Is he at his locker during

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Speaker 3: the times when it's open to the media and who

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Speaker 3: is he chatting with during stretch? Who is he hitting

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Speaker 3: with during BP?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 3: What is the manager saying? What are the coaches observing? Like,

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Speaker 3: there's spring training for us. This is why we front

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Speaker 3: load our coverage, why we put a lot of our

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Speaker 3: travel resources into spring training, is because you can just

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Speaker 3: learn so much and you can do it in a

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Speaker 3: more relaxed, casual setting. Some of it is just you know,

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Speaker 3: shutting up and listening and watching what's going on. Other

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Speaker 3: times it's talking to various people throughout the organization. It's

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Speaker 3: not just counsel in the sort of controlled contained press settings.

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Speaker 3: It's talking to the guys behind the scenes. I mean

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Speaker 3: Jed Hoyer gave that anecdote at the Bregman presser of

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Speaker 3: supposedly Bregman's asking for to see these individual player plans

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Speaker 3: for hitters, and he wants to know what the organization's

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Speaker 3: hitting instructors are teaching to young players, and he wants

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Speaker 3: to know that so he can sort of be in

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Speaker 3: the loop and help out. Believe he's playing for Team

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Speaker 3: USA and the World Baseball Classic, right, So there's kind

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Speaker 3: of a balance there of him coming in and out

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Speaker 3: curious to see kind of how he splits his time

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Speaker 3: and how he makes his presence known. But look, we've

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Speaker 3: covered enough of these, Like the guy who signs the

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Speaker 3: big contract is the story in spring training, Like he is,

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Speaker 3: if not the number one story, he's like one A,

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Speaker 3: one B.

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Speaker 4: And he is a constant story.

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Speaker 3: And that this is our job is to get to

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Speaker 3: know him, how he fits into the broader picture and

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Speaker 3: like explain him as a character to our readers and listeners.

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Speaker 3: And that starts, you know, really from the first day

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Speaker 3: of spring training.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you you mentioned something there that I hadn't really

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Speaker 1: thought about that much in just realizing WBC will impact

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Speaker 1: some of this, Like I he's he's made it clear

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Speaker 1: that he doesn't want it to like he's going to

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Speaker 1: try and go out of his way to to to

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Speaker 1: still be around early in the morning and things like that.

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Speaker 1: But but at a certain point, he's he's will be gone,

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Speaker 1: Like he won't be in Arizona while his teammates are.

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Speaker 1: But there's a chunk of cubs that are going to

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Speaker 1: be gone. And Peter Armstrong, Jameson tie On h There's

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Speaker 1: there's a few others.

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Speaker 2: That that are escaping me at the moment.

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Speaker 1: But it's it's it's more than it's more than you know,

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Speaker 1: just one or two guys beyond that, beyond these you know,

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Speaker 1: like I guess the other new guy, big name new guys,

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Speaker 1: Edward Cabrera, but he falls into this category I think

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Speaker 1: of like they have a lot of pictures that we

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Speaker 1: just need to watch health wise, Like like I was like,

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Speaker 1: it's not just like Edward Cabrera. It's like a long

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Speaker 1: history of like random stuff, but especially like an elbow

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Speaker 1: of late, you have to pay attention, like is he

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Speaker 1: making his bullpen sessions? Is are they like going slowly

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Speaker 1: with him? Are they dragging anything out? But it's not

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Speaker 1: just him. Justin Steele is recovering from major surgery.

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Speaker 2: Showed him and Naga.

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Speaker 1: Look, he was apparently healthy at the end of the year,

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Speaker 1: but we don't know, Like I think we can say that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: his recovery from the hamstring didn't go exactly as they

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Speaker 1: wanted and he was never exactly how they wanted him.

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Speaker 2: To be.

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Speaker 1: When he came back, like it, he was fine, I

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Speaker 1: think health wise, But I think sometimes when these injuries happen,

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Speaker 1: especially for him, some that type of injury before maybe

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Speaker 1: not letting loose exactly like you wanted to maybe compensating

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Speaker 1: in some ways with his delivery. How where is he

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Speaker 1: right now, both mentally and physically, and how does he

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Speaker 1: look in spring training and how is he feeling and

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Speaker 1: what type of and how did he attack his off season?

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Speaker 1: You know, like it was a completely normal off season.

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Speaker 1: Was he training in any different ways all those types

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Speaker 1: of things. And then the other name I would mention

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Speaker 1: is Hunter Harvey because you know, we mentioned the last

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Speaker 1: episode they don't have a closer, like a no doubt closer.

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Speaker 1: I think Hunter Harvey has that ceiling that that's his potential.

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Speaker 1: He's the guy that has the stuff. I think he's

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Speaker 1: got a little experience there. If he's healthy and he

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Speaker 1: looks good and he's throwing, you know, like he we

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Speaker 1: know he can throw, it's a game changer for their bullpit.

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Speaker 1: It really like it really adds something unique. I can't

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Speaker 1: remember exactly how much he got, but he got a

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Speaker 1: good chunk of money, especially like for what maybe Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's what my guess was.

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Speaker 2: So we're probably right out there.

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Speaker 1: So like guys like he barely pitched and he got

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Speaker 1: six million dollars and it's because of the stuff. It's

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Speaker 1: because of the potential. You don't like if he if

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Speaker 1: he barely pitched and he threw ninety, nobody would like

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Speaker 1: he would not have he would have gotten be An Nrie.

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Speaker 1: He has this potential and he shows these flashes, and

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Speaker 1: if he's healthy, it really changes the dynamic of things.

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Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, it.

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Speaker 3: Comes, got great depth on paper, and they are going

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Speaker 3: to need it. I mean that's just kind of the

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Speaker 3: way baseball is now. But you can really go up

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Speaker 3: and down the depth chart and you don't have to

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Speaker 3: squint to see some of the the trouble spots there. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: Matthew Boyd was fantastic last year, kind of like a

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Speaker 3: legit cy Young Award contender for a long stretch, a

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Speaker 3: great clubhouse guy. Uh came through in the playoffs more

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Speaker 3: often than not. But he had a I mean he

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Speaker 3: had a huge gap kind of in his whatever that

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Speaker 3: was like early thirties there of.

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Speaker 4: Not pitching a whole lot.

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Speaker 3: And you know, he put up a ton of innings

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Speaker 3: last year to his credit, and I know he'll say

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Speaker 3: he trains for that. And you know another WBC guy,

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Speaker 3: am I correct for Team USA?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I forgot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure it comes. Officials will sort of be

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Speaker 3: holding their breath on that one. Jameson ty On pitching

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Speaker 3: for Team Canada, if I remember correctly, as well, a

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Speaker 3: guy we sort of just take for granted as just

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Speaker 3: a good, solid mid rotation pitcher, and he'll probably be

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Speaker 3: that again. But that doesn't it's not always how it works.

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Speaker 3: And I don't I think we'll ever quite get to

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Speaker 3: this place with showed Up because he's so professional and uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, really optimistic, but and the comes have been

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Speaker 3: great to him for his this phase of his career.

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Speaker 3: But I did wonder kind of how the partnership works here,

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Speaker 3: from going from like this guy was like show to

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Speaker 3: Mania Show today to using an open in front of him,

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Speaker 3: not using him in that elimination game in Milwaukee, declining

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Speaker 3: their option, putting the qualifying offer on him showed to

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Speaker 3: not getting that obvious can't refuse multi year deal out

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Speaker 3: there as a free agent, like, all of that is

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Speaker 3: sort of a new new history for him and different

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Speaker 3: data points in his relationship with the organization. I don't

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Speaker 3: think it's going to be some major conflict by any means,

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Speaker 3: but things that I think the ground has sort of

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Speaker 3: shifted a little bit. I'm curious to see how that

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Speaker 3: plays out. Maybe, as Counsel said, Showda is going to

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Speaker 3: be super motivated that he's had that chance to take

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Speaker 3: a step back and get some clarity about where things

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Speaker 3: went off. Maybe the Cubs will be more proactive and

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Speaker 3: maybe a little more observant, you know, with some of

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Speaker 3: the stuff that Shoedo kind of lost track of their

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Speaker 3: last season. But it's I think the Cubs are going

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Speaker 3: to have a really good starting pitching. I just don't

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Speaker 3: know exactly, like who will will kind of be on

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Speaker 3: their leader board by the end of September and exactly

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Speaker 3: the shape of their rotation, you know, how it's going

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Speaker 3: to kind of play out here.

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Speaker 4: I don't think they know either.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, and don't disagree. I mean, Justin Steele probably

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Speaker 1: won't get back till May. Maybe they'll push it back

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Speaker 1: even later. And I you know, I think that'd be smart.

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Speaker 1: Just be really patient with him. I'm sure he wants

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Speaker 1: to be there for opening Day. It's just not how

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Speaker 1: it is going to go.

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Speaker 2: Or how it should go.

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Speaker 1: Really like, you can't let this guy dictate those things

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Speaker 1: because you just want him for the most important part

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Speaker 1: of the season.

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Speaker 2: But yes, like, how how will it all fit together.

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Speaker 1: Who will be a part of that rotation by seasons

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Speaker 1: and uh, like how who stays healthy, who's effective?

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Speaker 2: Who are the best of the group.

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Speaker 1: I Like, nothing would really surprise me because it's a

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Speaker 1: you know, I've said, like I'm high on Horton and

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Speaker 1: if Carbrera is healthy, I'm high on him. But I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised if someone pops, someone else pops. If

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Speaker 1: James Adion has a great uh season. Uh, just a

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Speaker 1: really consistent guy who continues to work and try and

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Speaker 1: reinvent himself. He's he added that kick change last year

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Speaker 1: that proved really valuable for him and just you know,

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Speaker 1: they have guys like that that are I think what

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Speaker 1: you're saying about showed. It's almost like he's gonna come

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Speaker 1: in with a chip on his shoulder a little bit

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Speaker 1: and try and you know, prove that.

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Speaker 2: That second half was not who he is.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes when you have a player that that that's

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Speaker 1: refocused like that and and and kind of like, okay,

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Speaker 1: it kind of got kicked, you know, got got hit around,

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Speaker 1: got punched in the face, and like, okay, now he's

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Speaker 1: gonna bounce back. Let's see, let's see how it looks

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Speaker 1: curious to see that, just the pitching in general, how

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Speaker 1: it all shakes out, and I think spring will tell

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Speaker 1: us a lot. The spring the WBC is going to

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Speaker 1: be interesting too. Nobody loves their pitchers going to WBC.

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Speaker 1: They don't really like restricting them either. But you know,

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Speaker 1: the reality is the Cubs have a couple of guys,

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Speaker 1: and they're guys that they're gonna need from the start

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Speaker 1: of the season to be big parts.

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Speaker 2: Of the rotation. So we'll see how Ty and Boyd

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Speaker 2: come out of that.

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Speaker 1: I think those are the only starters going for the Cubs.

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Speaker 2: I could be wrong.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to keep track of all the WBC stuff

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Speaker 1: right now. It all just came out the other day.

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Speaker 1: All right, we will be back. I think next time

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Speaker 1: we'll talk to everyone. I will be in Arizona for

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Speaker 1: spring training. Spring training will have started, pitchers and catchers

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Speaker 1: will probably have talked to everyone, Jed Hoyer, Craig Council,

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Speaker 1: all that good stuff.

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Speaker 2: So we will come to you with a.

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Speaker 1: Report from out there and you know, being the full

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Speaker 1: swing of things for the next few months. Thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for listening, everyone. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe,

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Speaker 1: subscribe to Northside Territory YouTube channel and subscribe to the

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Speaker 1: Athletic where Patrick and I are on top of all

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Speaker 1: things Cubs. Thanks so much for listening everyone, Do

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Speaker 2: They Leader