Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black
Speaker 1: Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime. Welcome
Speaker 1: back Man, season two of All the Smoke. We got
Speaker 1: a real special guys, what's up with your Brodie with
Speaker 1: the virtual handshake? I'm gonna tell yall something that I
Speaker 1: never told no back. I want to All the Smoke.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to another edition of All the Smoke. Jack
Speaker 1: has been a minute since we got together. I'm happy
Speaker 1: to see you, my dog. Yeah, I see you don't
Speaker 1: really handshake. I know it's the pandemic, but how them Still,
Speaker 1: it was just how cool lamb at this moment that
Speaker 1: just seemed you know, yeah, just right. Got a weak
Speaker 1: code three yeah nineteen to know what you is? I'm
Speaker 1: s and one. Yeah, So we're good man. But we
Speaker 1: got a special guest today. Man. Uh, I can't explain
Speaker 1: what this dude meant to me and my journey right
Speaker 1: from the beginning. But we'll get into that obviously, But man,
Speaker 1: welcome Hall of Fame nominee Chris Webber, Big bro Man.
Speaker 1: Have the checkout Goustin Radio th night. Yeah, watch you hey,
Speaker 1: I'm glad to have I kind of call feelings that
Speaker 1: I ain't been invited on, so we've been I've been
Speaker 1: trying and you got the babies now too, So you
Speaker 1: know what that dad's like. What's the dad life been
Speaker 1: like during this pandemic. Obviously you get to spend more
Speaker 1: time with him, but tell us what you got to
Speaker 1: about to be four year old twins? Talk to us
Speaker 1: about that on the real This is besides going to work.
Speaker 1: It's the first time I've been around people in the year.
Speaker 1: That's all. I want to have a drink with you.
Speaker 1: I'm your first brother and hugged and what I'm saying
Speaker 1: for real, And so it's been you know, we've been
Speaker 1: to ourselves kind of, but it's been the livest moments,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I'm there with him. It's
Speaker 1: like I had no excuse not to be there, not
Speaker 1: to be engaged. So we're doing everything. I'm you know,
Speaker 1: I'm challenging them and my little girl know she's the
Speaker 1: strongest girl in the world. My I know, you know,
Speaker 1: he's the strongest boy in the world. We just just live,
Speaker 1: you know, just out there at the web state, out
Speaker 1: there living good. What's uh, what's one thing positive negative
Speaker 1: you took from I took being grateful. So for me,
Speaker 1: like you know, you know, your mind's always working thinking.
Speaker 1: I really like thought like, damn, my parents about to
Speaker 1: be married fifty years. I got kids, my brothers are cool,
Speaker 1: you know, all the stuff we pray for. Like I'm like,
Speaker 1: because you know, you just sit there and you take
Speaker 1: you take it all in from a minute, and usually
Speaker 1: you get really grateful when something great happened and things
Speaker 1: were going every day. I was just like, stay grateful.
Speaker 1: You your parents alive, the brothers here, no one's hurt.
Speaker 1: He got COVID, didn't matter, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So the one thing I took away is be grateful.
Speaker 1: And the other thing I took away is, you know,
Speaker 1: when it's time to hit the ground running, Matt, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get back to myself and get back to to
Speaker 1: working hard and living hard. You know I'm a little
Speaker 1: excited about that. Well, that's the one thing to me
Speaker 1: like taught you know, with obviously starting last year with
Speaker 1: Cobe and along down the line, just to trickle down
Speaker 1: effect of this negative ship. That's the one like you
Speaker 1: gotta live and and normally it takes bad stuff to
Speaker 1: make us realize how thankful and grateful we are, but
Speaker 1: I think we lived a whole year of that and
Speaker 1: it's on a whole nother level. It's been a crazy
Speaker 1: uh NBA running the bubble and then currently what is
Speaker 1: you know, what are your thoughts on the NBA. I
Speaker 1: mean you're commentating games now doing that, but thoughts on
Speaker 1: just the current state of the NBA, considering the pandemic
Speaker 1: we're in. You know, I didn't feel that, you know.
Speaker 1: I'm glad the fans enjoyed the All Star Game, you know,
Speaker 1: but I didn't understand the time and of that with
Speaker 1: everything that was going on. Um, I think the players
Speaker 1: right now, I get them a lot of credit. I
Speaker 1: don't know how to be able to to navigate with this.
Speaker 1: You know, when they were in the bubble, man, I
Speaker 1: was out there like eighty three days uh after the game,
Speaker 1: stag like's no place to go relax, no place to
Speaker 1: go hang out. I'm still with in the same hotel rooms,
Speaker 1: you know, just the hotel rooms. Mentally just in on you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I mean these young casts, I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: When I went to the bubble and saw how they
Speaker 1: handled it, and I was just commentating and I was
Speaker 1: getting in and out of there. I was like, I
Speaker 1: couldn't do it, And you know, so I think the
Speaker 1: league is in a good place with the players, and
Speaker 1: I hope that the game gets to be as beautiful
Speaker 1: as it as it always is. But I hope that
Speaker 1: it's less it's less specialists and more hoopers. You know,
Speaker 1: I just want to see that, not that the specialist.
Speaker 1: So I hope. I hope teams and analytics allow people
Speaker 1: to play that style instead of just standing in the
Speaker 1: corner play basket. But I agree with the way the
Speaker 1: game is up and down, free flow, and you were
Speaker 1: one of the early bigs to be you know, stretched forwards,
Speaker 1: passing forwards. How do you think your your style of
Speaker 1: play would fit in the current NBA. I love it
Speaker 1: play to day. When I played the big man, it
Speaker 1: couldn't even leave the three on two drill down to
Speaker 1: the sorry coaches man, Sorry coaches man. So yeah, I would.
Speaker 1: I would have love to play today, especially on the
Speaker 1: high post or the past or the handoff and cut
Speaker 1: things like that, especially when I could jump a little
Speaker 1: bit before. I would love it. So that's why I
Speaker 1: love watching Yokish and be you know, I love watching
Speaker 1: you know a lot of guys do their thing out there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love playing today. I love what you enjoy watching today.
Speaker 1: I like I like yokih I like him be when
Speaker 1: he going to work in the post. I love watching
Speaker 1: Simmons on the break when he has the ball hardened.
Speaker 1: Kyrie with their handles, you know, I you know, it's
Speaker 1: so funny getting of the season. So you know, I
Speaker 1: done a movie with Kyrie. I don't know him. I
Speaker 1: don't know if I ever talked to him on the phone,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I got respect for these guys,
Speaker 1: but I don't know them like that. So at the
Speaker 1: beginning of the season, I'm with him and Harden. I'm
Speaker 1: saying Hard and should get out of Houston. It's messed up.
Speaker 1: He has a black coach. But Steven Silas gonna be
Speaker 1: all right, man, did they hired the black coach just
Speaker 1: so I can give you the guilt of the black player?
Speaker 1: Like we do? You know what I'm saying. I'm like,
Speaker 1: Hard to get out of there, because at the end,
Speaker 1: we're gonna say you as a loser because you stayed
Speaker 1: with this team. I know a little about that, so
Speaker 1: I'm like, Hard is the call man. I don't know
Speaker 1: the time basketball players shouldn't do any this then Kyrie.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm like, he's incredible. I know he against
Speaker 1: the media and were on the media side now whatever,
Speaker 1: but I get it, you know, And I think if
Speaker 1: the media looked at different personalities like wrestling, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, like iron Chic, you know he over
Speaker 1: there in Nicolau Vocal even Russia. Like Kyrie gotta walk
Speaker 1: up stick and he don't talk use that, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like, don't don't make him like everybody else,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying that. So I remember getting
Speaker 1: the season saying, man, they're gonna be cold and have
Speaker 1: I remember just seeing the hate from the media to
Speaker 1: board and I was like, oh yeah, snap out of
Speaker 1: remember you remember that. You know everybody got there all
Speaker 1: terror motives with it. And it's funny. I said all
Speaker 1: that to say, now it's funny that everybody loves you know,
Speaker 1: Kyrie should be and hardened him going there getting assists
Speaker 1: like that. Don't surprise me. No one blame Dan Tony
Speaker 1: for the way hard and play. Nobody, nobody, nobody, Dan
Speaker 1: Tony wanted him to play that way. He would tell us,
Speaker 1: he would tell us like blame it on me and um,
Speaker 1: so for you know, players today, I love the young
Speaker 1: ones and I also love the oldham was just had
Speaker 1: to go find their way and still reinventing herself. And
Speaker 1: to me, Harden and Kyrie those my tooth, you know,
Speaker 1: two of my favorites to watch book or a lot
Speaker 1: of books, a lot of boys. I talked to Kyrie
Speaker 1: all the time, so you know, we all been misunderstood
Speaker 1: and that's just it. But when they're kind of playing basketball,
Speaker 1: you can't tell him that. Well, you guys to talk
Speaker 1: about you got a chance to play with Rod Strickland.
Speaker 1: Talk to me about the similarities you see between Kyrie
Speaker 1: and Rob because to me, Robert so underappreciated and respected.
Speaker 1: But obviously Kyrie gets his jest serve. He's, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the best players we've ever seen. Yeah, I know, yeah,
Speaker 1: and and this was dope. This is our job, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, our job is to keep that respect right here.
Speaker 1: But uh, to appreciate these young boys, but to let
Speaker 1: him know who came before, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: because they ain't just start with with these young boys.
Speaker 1: And I remember saying that people, Hey, why do you
Speaker 1: always say Rob strick Because I played with him, the
Speaker 1: coldest man never to make the All Star Game. You
Speaker 1: need no disrespect to Connley. Conley was the oldest I
Speaker 1: think of Connie ko. But if you like the best
Speaker 1: finishing under six fo yeah handles that you didn't even
Speaker 1: know how. He was driven and taped his fingers up.
Speaker 1: One of the greatest teammates you have. And you can't
Speaker 1: tell me that his father, Desert and Roger Strickland didn't
Speaker 1: have an influence on this game. Because this little stuff
Speaker 1: Kyrie do that I don't even I get excited in
Speaker 1: the game, and I'm like, I'm not even gonna explain
Speaker 1: that right now because y'all won't even get it. Like
Speaker 1: when he doesn't end and out scoop left hand and
Speaker 1: throws it up, that stuff that your brothers can't even
Speaker 1: do what they right hand. But Stack, you know what,
Speaker 1: you're right here. You you know how you can go
Speaker 1: this far with you're right with your left he might come,
Speaker 1: I mean, he go the same yeah he man, he he.
Speaker 1: He has to be the best left hand. He has
Speaker 1: to be the best off and finisher in the game.
Speaker 1: I don't even like saying the best, but I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't I can't even think of about it. No,
Speaker 1: you need the skilled talented, and that's too like I
Speaker 1: took because like Jack said, you know, Jack is is
Speaker 1: close to Kyrie, and I took kind of a different
Speaker 1: approach when I would hear some of the things he said,
Speaker 1: and that was my fault too. And I eventually hopefully
Speaker 1: get him on the show and sit down and talk
Speaker 1: to him, because to me, I just kind of wanted
Speaker 1: to have a plan with everything he was doing that
Speaker 1: I would outspoken against him, But then talking to Jack
Speaker 1: and getting more of an understanding for him, now I
Speaker 1: kind of see what it is. And like you said,
Speaker 1: like obviously playing against him and knowing Kyrie Irving the
Speaker 1: great basketball player, I don't know the man you know,
Speaker 1: and I think I think sometimes we forget that, like
Speaker 1: we had the same reputation, even you had the same
Speaker 1: reputation where they see a snippet of you and think
Speaker 1: they know who you are and it's the furthest thing
Speaker 1: from the truth. But I like it very honestly, And
Speaker 1: you don't have to play basketball to to have an opinion.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people, but I like it when
Speaker 1: we disagree because it's a point of reference. We come from,
Speaker 1: and I could be like, all right, I trust that.
Speaker 1: I trust him enough to let me think about the
Speaker 1: other side and you know what I'm saying instead of
Speaker 1: him just being here. So that's why I like our
Speaker 1: conversations or like him what we say about it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I was just saying more that off the course stuff
Speaker 1: I really don't ever even listen to with no player.
Speaker 1: I was just saying more with him, like he gonna ball,
Speaker 1: like he wouldn't leave Boston, like a bad teammate in Boston.
Speaker 1: Whatever you want to say all this, but he's not
Speaker 1: gonna do all that and not who you can't do
Speaker 1: all what you can say whatever you want, like Harden
Speaker 1: is not gonna say this team not good enough and
Speaker 1: then go there and they're trouble getting k D back
Speaker 1: and maybe picking up up Big to shure up that
Speaker 1: front line. I mean, I want right on anything I
Speaker 1: wanted to. I want five g dog. I told him.
Speaker 1: I told my little partner. I said, you know, I said,
Speaker 1: Blake fooling that Blake fooling y'all saying, no, man, lois
Speaker 1: his athletic not not as much athletic a believe as
Speaker 1: he had. I could call Alo other weaker lose out athletic.
Speaker 1: He can't lose. He can little tend interest and still
Speaker 1: have a third and still be he come back and
Speaker 1: talk and get a little smile. I'm like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a big pick up. I mean, Jack mentioned that that's
Speaker 1: gonna be a real big pick up for them. If
Speaker 1: you know, if his knees could stay what they need
Speaker 1: to be, that's gonna be a scary team. Man. Take
Speaker 1: us back to your upbringing, Detroit, the city, your childhood,
Speaker 1: and then going from where you grew up and played
Speaker 1: to a school like country day. So I grew up
Speaker 1: in Detroit. You know, my father, he's the smartest man.
Speaker 1: I know, he's the man um. But you know, he
Speaker 1: really grew up in the South. He really grew up
Speaker 1: on the plantation. He really grew up picking cotton, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And uh, he had a tough
Speaker 1: life and he came to Detroit to work in the
Speaker 1: auto factory. My mother, on the other hand, came from
Speaker 1: a tough life, but she had you know, it was
Speaker 1: a teacher and she was always going to school. That's
Speaker 1: all I remember, taking us like two classes, some little thing,
Speaker 1: giving us a piece of paper, right, playing on the floor.
Speaker 1: She in the class or my father the auto factory,
Speaker 1: and um, it was strict household, dog like it was. No,
Speaker 1: it was strict. I'm the oldest of five. You know.
Speaker 1: It was church every Wednesday, Bible class, church every Saturday.
Speaker 1: Well seven o'clock at night. That's um choir reheards for
Speaker 1: my mother's the choir director. You know how my son,
Speaker 1: so I got the same. I got some video dog
Speaker 1: on the show. I gotta say as a video. But yeah,
Speaker 1: small church, like thirty people and seven of them is
Speaker 1: my family. You know what I mean. You grew up
Speaker 1: in the hood like everybody else, and um, like three bedrooms,
Speaker 1: one bathroom. My brother used to pee on me. Shout out,
Speaker 1: shout out to shout out to Jason. You think he's
Speaker 1: some of your attorney in Atlanta, ladies, Yeah, if you
Speaker 1: think he's smooth, No, but he used to He used
Speaker 1: to pay on me so much. Dog. If we used
Speaker 1: to sleep together. I have a towel on the on
Speaker 1: the floor and I just picked the toller pick them up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I had to get to sleep, um man. I used
Speaker 1: to cut out posters and my whole room was filled
Speaker 1: with posters. Big Daddy Cane Dominique Wilkins, things like that. Man,
Speaker 1: I grew up in a great neighborhood, like fifty kids
Speaker 1: playing basketball outside, tackle on the tackling on the grass,
Speaker 1: you know, football in the middle of the street, and
Speaker 1: um My Popster just didn't play, man, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. He used to used to beat me down
Speaker 1: like if I was if I was wrong. You know,
Speaker 1: when I was younger and coming up, everybody in the
Speaker 1: neighborhood had respect for him. Dog dealers, hoopers, everybody, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And I get to eighth grade,
Speaker 1: ninth grade, I want to go play at this high school, Southwest,
Speaker 1: coldest killers ever went to Southwestern Anderson Hunt all these
Speaker 1: other players. It's a funny story. Get me back on
Speaker 1: in a minute. So, man, one day, I'm about thirty
Speaker 1: years on, I'm hooping walking the ball. Used to call
Speaker 1: it between your legs, and this dude come on with
Speaker 1: some beat up George beat up Jorgs and he's like,
Speaker 1: what's something, Like what's up? Man, He's like, yeah, Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan Cousin. I'm like, you ain't Michael Jordan Cousin with
Speaker 1: them shoes. Sean Leonard was moving in on the corner
Speaker 1: of the street. So this is like thirteen. So but
Speaker 1: Sean Lennard's here, you know what I'm saying, Like I'm
Speaker 1: around basketball Graates, you know what I mean. So Sean Lenard,
Speaker 1: Jayden Rose, Howard, Eisley, uh Quincy Bondes, a couple of
Speaker 1: other my brothers went to Southwest. So this is the
Speaker 1: high school I want to go to Stack Like Damet
Speaker 1: won the championship at seven or they had tried seven
Speaker 1: times and win the championship. Everybody else had been winning.
Speaker 1: You know, we want to Detroit to win. So I
Speaker 1: wanted to go to Southwestern Man and my AU coach
Speaker 1: came told us it was a test for the school.
Speaker 1: Mom's like, oh yeah, it's the test is free education
Speaker 1: over there, you know, take a test to go to school.
Speaker 1: And uh, I get in the split the whole AU team,
Speaker 1: half of us getting the half go half dog, and
Speaker 1: uh it was it was. It was tough because I
Speaker 1: wanted to go to Southwestern. I was from Detroit. At
Speaker 1: that moment, the story start being he not from Detroit
Speaker 1: going out here and not at thirteen years old. This
Speaker 1: is the biggest thing in the world. It ain't nothing
Speaker 1: else you could say to me. And it ain't nothing
Speaker 1: else you can say to me that that would hurt me,
Speaker 1: except I'm not from you, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So then they knew what to say at this time.
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm thirteen, I'm playing this. But the whole time,
Speaker 1: you know, looking back, it was a wonderful time, a
Speaker 1: long time. But it was like, Okay, I realized that
Speaker 1: that point would it meant to go to work in
Speaker 1: the darkness, like shut up, let them say what they're
Speaker 1: gonna say. I can't be like I am I am,
Speaker 1: I am that that ship don't mean nothing. You know
Speaker 1: what you're gonna do once you know, had that confrontation.
Speaker 1: So um at that time, I go this little high
Speaker 1: school and my pops, you know, you had a real
Speaker 1: good talk with me. So the first year I tried
Speaker 1: to flunk out. Yeah, I tried to flunk out with
Speaker 1: my mom. She was I finally finally accepted. And we
Speaker 1: had like four cats from my AU team go the
Speaker 1: country day with Mi Yapo, Cab darl and so were blessed.
Speaker 1: We want Class C championship. So now I'm talking in
Speaker 1: the paper like no other team is gone from Class
Speaker 1: UP and one you know, we got five hundred kids.
Speaker 1: I'm like, we're going to Class B. We win that championship,
Speaker 1: and then I'm like, let's go to Class A when
Speaker 1: we'll be playing against J everybody else and they don't
Speaker 1: let us do it. And that was really like my
Speaker 1: high school, man, Like just it was I wanted to
Speaker 1: go to this one high school and play there. I
Speaker 1: go to this other school. I got to wear a
Speaker 1: suit in the tie. I don't understand why my father
Speaker 1: is listening to this woman about sports. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, this this my mom. She don't even like sports,
Speaker 1: mom as you listen to it about what school to
Speaker 1: go to. And I thank them every day, man, because
Speaker 1: my popsy wan't my friend, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I ain't talked to him that year, like a whole
Speaker 1: year the stack, I ain't talking the whole school year.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't talk to me being the car like you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like you you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: you're my son, Like you're gonna do what I say,
Speaker 1: you know? And uh, it's just the biggest blessing of
Speaker 1: my life. Man, Like I'm a friends there for life.
Speaker 1: I realized, you know, certain stereotypes wasn't true about myself
Speaker 1: about other people. I've never been scared of nobody since
Speaker 1: them moments. You know you're going to kids and their
Speaker 1: dad your billionaire. You see, he unhappy at home. I
Speaker 1: don't want what you have, right, I'm happy with what
Speaker 1: I have. I do want some stuff though, I want
Speaker 1: the pool and stuff you got, but I don't want
Speaker 1: what you're having. So it was just a good lesson, man,
Speaker 1: but you know, making it shorter than it than it was,
Speaker 1: but it was. High school was the best and the
Speaker 1: worst thing at the same time for me. M mmmmm.
Speaker 1: When did you start receiving obviously you were able to
Speaker 1: win three championships, when did you start receiving that recognition
Speaker 1: as you end up being Mr Mr Basketball? But kind
Speaker 1: of on the map, whether just eighth grade, ninth grade,
Speaker 1: tenth grade. When when did you feel like you were
Speaker 1: on the map? For whom I felt like I was
Speaker 1: on the map? Probably when I went to like a
Speaker 1: night snore and you turning with something I played against,
Speaker 1: like Grant when I played against Grant Hill, Jamal Mashburn,
Speaker 1: something I've never seen before. He's the same size in
Speaker 1: the NBA as he was in name grade. You know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Hill, We've handled yeahs mash Org Hill.
Speaker 1: I said, what when were you talking about? Though? I
Speaker 1: was talking about Mashburn. He's the same height as he
Speaker 1: was there, Mashburn. Um he was cold, Sean Bradley. I'll
Speaker 1: see what happened to him. He was out there, so
Speaker 1: um yeah, prayers are for him. But all all those
Speaker 1: dudes were cold the time. But it's a funny story.
Speaker 1: So I go to this little school. This this this,
Speaker 1: this the best story. I gotta think. I go this
Speaker 1: little school and uh, little kids, and I'm in seventh
Speaker 1: grade and I'm like six three, six five or something,
Speaker 1: and I get like sixty three points in the game.
Speaker 1: I don't know nothing about basketball. I've just been whooping
Speaker 1: in the backyard. So it's hard to whoop in the backyard,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So in this game, I
Speaker 1: do this, and they called the news out the next
Speaker 1: day and and I go on the news and I've
Speaker 1: never been on TV or nothing before. I don't know
Speaker 1: what it is. I'm looking at the Floorida like, what
Speaker 1: college you want to go to? I'm like, Michigan State,
Speaker 1: this Magic Johnson. So at twelve years old, I remember
Speaker 1: that night coming on. I remember how the next day
Speaker 1: was different, you know what I'm saying. I remember family
Speaker 1: member came over and speaking to me and they say
Speaker 1: nothing to the to my brother's and then like you know,
Speaker 1: I just just just people, little stuff. And that practice
Speaker 1: led to me on the super Friends shout out to
Speaker 1: super Friends. That's the single camera shout out to the
Speaker 1: super Friends, the AU team back in the day. And
Speaker 1: so that got me to play with Jalen and them.
Speaker 1: And if I never would have did that interview, my
Speaker 1: father never would have tried to put me in basketball
Speaker 1: because he didn't even know I was hooping, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So you know, I think that's really
Speaker 1: to put me on the map in Michigan and say,
Speaker 1: you know, this kid could be all right. It gave
Speaker 1: me something to have expectations. I don't even know where
Speaker 1: I was at that time. Cheers, They snuck our little drinking.
Speaker 1: It is the first time I'm unable to have a drink. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, Jack Jack converted now, so I understand much
Speaker 1: respect one one time. Yes, it's been a years and
Speaker 1: not to drink, man, I'm not I believe it. One
Speaker 1: of the schools you took as serious candidates besides Michigan.
Speaker 1: When you say you started Michigan State, right, So I'm
Speaker 1: just good. Yes, we get the buck. Yeah, I'm bringing
Speaker 1: on when it comes. So Michigan State. I was at
Speaker 1: Michigan State. I was. I was in Michigan State, locked in,
Speaker 1: locked in coaches up to this day is one of
Speaker 1: you know, I got love for coaches. So I don't
Speaker 1: know him and I got love. Check this story out.
Speaker 1: So so I go. So I'm going to Michigan State.
Speaker 1: They got me. Now we could talk about a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of other things because your wan recruited. We been
Speaker 1: getting that. But Michigan State have me this early. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna sign late, go to a football So I go
Speaker 1: to Minnesota. My five visits of Minnesota because it's a
Speaker 1: black coach. Um, you would d because it's a black coach.
Speaker 1: And I want Detroit to know this is a place
Speaker 1: where all the young boys should come and it's it's
Speaker 1: a good place, dude, Michigan, Michigan State. So I'm at
Speaker 1: Michigan State. I'm telling him there sean rush, but he
Speaker 1: all time they score that I'm at Michigan State. That's
Speaker 1: the best visit. Magic and told me to come there.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't even know Magic ment A one
Speaker 1: time and he told me to come down coming. And
Speaker 1: so I go to Minnesota for a visit. Now Minnesota
Speaker 1: takes me on to a football game, and I'm thinking, like,
Speaker 1: y'all don't even know how to recruit. Why would you
Speaker 1: bring somebody that goes to Michigan football games to Minnesota? Y'all? Teams, sorry,
Speaker 1: y'are playing this whack as arena. Ain't nobody here like
Speaker 1: this is a hundred thousands, Like, don't do that? Take
Speaker 1: me somewhere, you know what I mean? Don't. So anyway,
Speaker 1: I go to games. On the way out, they're playing
Speaker 1: Michigan State. So on the way out, I'm just, you know,
Speaker 1: a little kid. I'm following the coach, and the coach
Speaker 1: takes me and I shake hands with somebody to sweet.
Speaker 1: Promise you if this is the sweet, like just the
Speaker 1: door to the sweet. I didn't step past this, So
Speaker 1: shake hand. Boom right anything cool again? Home? The n
Speaker 1: C A a call, like what y'all? So they called
Speaker 1: my coach and they know not to call me on
Speaker 1: my pops because it's been bullshit the whole time. So
Speaker 1: they said well, the fok, the athletic director of Michigan State,
Speaker 1: took a picture of you shaking the hand through a
Speaker 1: coke bottle. I was like, this can't be true. Coach
Speaker 1: is a car was like that's all he said. That's
Speaker 1: all he said, and he cried on the phone. It
Speaker 1: was over. That was a violation for the hand you shook.
Speaker 1: It don't even matter. Michigan State took the picture. You
Speaker 1: see what I'm saying, y'all ain't gonna force me. You're
Speaker 1: gonna force me to come? What you what you think
Speaker 1: that's gonna do. I think it's gonna make me come
Speaker 1: with you. You don't know enough about me, because I'll
Speaker 1: be on fire and be like if you put me out,
Speaker 1: I put myself back on fire and funk you up
Speaker 1: and then be like I'll handle I just got issues
Speaker 1: like that, right, So they did that. My father he
Speaker 1: already knew because he allowed me to pick where I
Speaker 1: was going, and it was just like, damn, I can't
Speaker 1: go to Michigan State. So it was because I went
Speaker 1: to a game in Minnesota. Michigan State told that I
Speaker 1: shook someone's hand, and like judge, judge, he cold before
Speaker 1: he passed me talked about it. You know, it is
Speaker 1: in his book, is all. We talked about it. But
Speaker 1: that's that's a really big reason why I didn't go
Speaker 1: to Michigan. You know what I'm saying. But Michigan was
Speaker 1: sorry to years before. They were terrible. They were good
Speaker 1: at eighty nine. We're talking ninety one. Now they weren't good.
Speaker 1: As one had been recruit Me and Juan had been
Speaker 1: cool since tim grade. Me and Jalen wanted to go
Speaker 1: to the same high school. So Juwan just kept recruiting
Speaker 1: as like, dog, I'm telling you this team, sorry, we
Speaker 1: could be good, man, we could get time, we could
Speaker 1: play with me. Can you can switch everything? That's all?
Speaker 1: He did the best job. He's like, you can switch everything? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So you know, Duke Man, that was Duke might have
Speaker 1: been my best visit, y'all. Really, dude, I know, I'm
Speaker 1: about to tell you why. Because grand Hill, Because grand
Speaker 1: Hill knew me. So grand Hill was like first they
Speaker 1: said they had no conditioning, no conditioning. I watched their
Speaker 1: practice in college. Everybody had conditions. They played like NBA style.
Speaker 1: They never got on the track. Then I went to
Speaker 1: one of the classes whatever. That was cool. But then
Speaker 1: Christian later him and grad said, man, if you come here,
Speaker 1: we know you you really donna want to go to
Speaker 1: school here. I said, what it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: you can take classes or whatever down the street at
Speaker 1: the Black College. They said, they took me to the college.
Speaker 1: They took me up there and it was man, it
Speaker 1: was like, you know, I'm old schools. It was like
Speaker 1: doing the ship like it was live. Man, I wanted
Speaker 1: to I'm talking about. Man, that was the best visit
Speaker 1: because it was a college right down the street. We
Speaker 1: had a good time. They were partying, like on the Monday.
Speaker 1: Like I was like this, you know, other colleges the
Speaker 1: other recruitse tried to yeah, not take you out, and
Speaker 1: they took you out to the best. But you can
Speaker 1: see that they really had a relationship with the Black College.
Speaker 1: Everybody like what up? And there was parties and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. And then just one more so my you
Speaker 1: would d visit. So I go on the trip, your
Speaker 1: d n um stay in the hotel downtown. It's just
Speaker 1: the regular hotel to Poncho train, you know, and I'm
Speaker 1: with KIV. Had to talk and blind drills. He was
Speaker 1: doing it. That's what I was talking about that. Uh,
Speaker 1: so I hear this so Church Brooke Birds rest in peace.
Speaker 1: He was a coach uh Northwestern and uh I go
Speaker 1: on this visit and it's just a regular trip. It's like, hey,
Speaker 1: here's the city and all that. It's just funny. He's like, man,
Speaker 1: thank you for coming. Man, I know you're not gonna
Speaker 1: come here, and thank you for coming to use this.
Speaker 1: He like, you stay at the hotel, you know your friends,
Speaker 1: you know, y'all could eat what you want the foods
Speaker 1: there and that's that was it. So I bring my
Speaker 1: friends up to the hotel. We're hanging out and know
Speaker 1: all I kept hearing is I'm like something that's just
Speaker 1: base coming from next door. Then kem go outside and
Speaker 1: we're just hoping somebody walk out or something. And somebody
Speaker 1: walk out. It's Luke Skywalker Warren Sap and I'm talking
Speaker 1: about this is like ninety three and just it was
Speaker 1: like I was wondering, did you indeed playing this? Because
Speaker 1: if they did, it was it was it was the job. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like it. I never seen it
Speaker 1: was a live concert in Luke's room. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, I I just I just never seen nothing,
Speaker 1: and I remember thinking like my mom and it was like,
Speaker 1: how was your trip? Baby? How was this? I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was good. You know, I don't think they never
Speaker 1: heard it to them and I can't even tell it
Speaker 1: like I want. But so those were the schools that
Speaker 1: you know that I looked at. So you end up
Speaker 1: in Michigan with the number one recruiting class, a lot
Speaker 1: of hype around your your team, but off not not necessary,
Speaker 1: off the core, but outside of playing. The style, the swag,
Speaker 1: the fashion, the cultural shift you guys brought to the
Speaker 1: game is something that will never to me. It can't
Speaker 1: be duplicated because, like I said, there's everything from here
Speaker 1: on out to me after it's kind of low key biting.
Speaker 1: So where did those thoughts and in ideas and how
Speaker 1: were you guys able to actually make it come to fruition?
Speaker 1: I mean, black socks, black shoes, baggy shorts, like that
Speaker 1: wasn't the style or that wasn't status quo, and you
Speaker 1: guys turned that all around the black bark co right.
Speaker 1: I had to get them. That was the first real
Speaker 1: pair of shoe, like expensive pair of shoes my mom
Speaker 1: ever bought me. And I wasn't bitches until my sock
Speaker 1: came out the bottom of What year was that, ninety four? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like junior high. Shout out to Jalen Rose too,
Speaker 1: Juwan Howard Ray Jackson, Jimmy King. Yeah, the Texas the
Speaker 1: textab boy was crazy, but I was having the ray
Speaker 1: to day. I mean, y'all, y'all, y'all really think different man, y'all, y'all,
Speaker 1: I love it, y'all think different man. Hey, that's the
Speaker 1: first one I called him too, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But it's just a blessing dog. All it was was
Speaker 1: everybody brought their ship with him from where they came.
Speaker 1: That's that's all it was. Joan Jowane shouldn't be alive, man,
Speaker 1: he was where he is Chicago. He should not be alive. Dog.
Speaker 1: That's why you see him smiling and so happy, and
Speaker 1: that's why you see hm about the killer coach. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean. He should not be here, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Those games were small to us, No,
Speaker 1: you know, no, not putting no ship on nothing. You know,
Speaker 1: the first a game I go to a point guard trip,
Speaker 1: you taking a point guard got killed the week before,
Speaker 1: you know, so we we we were in this state
Speaker 1: of mind, like can't reach eighteen. Nobody liked Detroit, c
Speaker 1: Ia put coke in Detroit. You know, all this stuff
Speaker 1: that you're thinking, man, and so being able to have
Speaker 1: someone like Jalen that I knew it was crazy serious
Speaker 1: because we knew that we already had to fight a
Speaker 1: narrative in Detroit. Ray and Jimmy coming from Texas they
Speaker 1: already felt the same way, and Juan from Chicago. So really,
Speaker 1: I remember the first time we all met each other.
Speaker 1: It was right in front of the dorms. I'd already
Speaker 1: met Jimmy because McDonald's and Juan and Jimmy, but with
Speaker 1: Ray and we started playing basketball. I went up to
Speaker 1: the seventh floor, turned the music on, and that's that's
Speaker 1: like the first and the last thing I remember, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, whether it's the time out, whether
Speaker 1: it's winning, whether it's this, whether it's somebody on that
Speaker 1: first because it was real like like like like how
Speaker 1: it's crazy to be sitting there with you after you know,
Speaker 1: as you know, I was saying, like it's really you
Speaker 1: can't even put in the words since seen really is.
Speaker 1: So when we're on there, we wearing long shorts. Is
Speaker 1: because we had cut off shorts, and when I grew up,
Speaker 1: you couldn't wear one tight because I mean, you ain't
Speaker 1: have money. If I could see your socks and you
Speaker 1: was high water, it wasn't because it was your style.
Speaker 1: Because that's all happened, right. So we grew up with
Speaker 1: all these little things and we was like, you know,
Speaker 1: we're wearing baggy shorts or you know Ray, Ray did
Speaker 1: the socks. He was in Texas, and the true story
Speaker 1: is Ray was pissed because he wasn't getting a lot
Speaker 1: of playing time. Yeah, Ray, you know, I been thinking
Speaker 1: about transferring and he came in with some Texas boys
Speaker 1: about to play rice. And you know how this when
Speaker 1: you go into somebody else town, you're gonna show your
Speaker 1: ass for them. And so Ray bring these black socks
Speaker 1: in and we're like, what's that. He like, I'm wearing these,
Speaker 1: and I was like, you ain't wearing them. I'm wearing
Speaker 1: Then we got to go back to the law, homeboy,
Speaker 1: and it's raised I did. We all we all were
Speaker 1: the black socks. And what was so one thing that
Speaker 1: was dope about the coach. Fisher pulled me to the
Speaker 1: side after we wanted and he was like you know,
Speaker 1: yeall like the black Shots were like yeah, we like
Speaker 1: the black Shots were, don'na keep wearing them. He was like,
Speaker 1: that's cool, except the only thing is only y'all five
Speaker 1: should win? What should everybody win? Right? Question? Coach? You
Speaker 1: you're right man? And that was like another moment of
Speaker 1: the second year, bringing us all together was like you're right,
Speaker 1: you know, because we were wrong about that. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm glad we did it that way truthfully to make
Speaker 1: a statement like the world don't love us, but come on, y'all,
Speaker 1: you know we can't keep this to ourselves. Family. So
Speaker 1: those those brothers, man, I was you know, thous were
Speaker 1: some of the realist that moment, that team, the Pistons
Speaker 1: team the end of my career, you know, our relationship
Speaker 1: and others in Sac. You know, those are the moments
Speaker 1: that I cherished, those kind of crazy memories that had
Speaker 1: nothing to do with being on the floor. Actual who
Speaker 1: you guys did you know accomplished so much in in
Speaker 1: such a short amount of time, you know, with all
Speaker 1: the accolades, big games, losses, Like you said, the time
Speaker 1: out is the one thing you take is at that
Speaker 1: moment right there, is that the one when you say,
Speaker 1: when you look back Chris Webber, Michigan, the five five,
Speaker 1: what's the one thing that you hang your hat out
Speaker 1: and stands out to you that it's just that that
Speaker 1: sums up that moment. Damn man, that was a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a lot. Yeah, I know, I don't think
Speaker 1: I could pick one. Yeah, that was a lot. I
Speaker 1: don't think I could. But you're putting a lot. You're
Speaker 1: putting with a loaded quuture. Yeah, it's a lot of music,
Speaker 1: personal situation. You're putting music. You're putting the whole culture
Speaker 1: just on y'all backs at that time, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Like, that was a lot, and it was
Speaker 1: to me, like I said, it was a smaller It
Speaker 1: was a two year window to be real with you,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, because he was too and
Speaker 1: done so to affect to have a lifelong effect on
Speaker 1: culture as a whole when it pertains to basketball, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. To have one of the greatest
Speaker 1: young teams in the history of the game. Um, unfortunately
Speaker 1: felt short two years in a row. But like I said,
Speaker 1: you guys did so much for the game and for culture.
Speaker 1: That's what was Is there any one thing that sticks
Speaker 1: out there is just that whole moment is what it is.
Speaker 1: I think it's the whole moment, man, because it's so
Speaker 1: many things you do now, Like the players are looking
Speaker 1: rob and with two tattoos and be like tattoos, but
Speaker 1: they don't realize that day it was like having a tattoo,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So it was the small
Speaker 1: things like at that time, man, I felt like the
Speaker 1: world was changed, like even with little things like um
Speaker 1: and Living Color was on TV. What I'm saying, little
Speaker 1: things like that. So I definitely want to take the credit.
Speaker 1: And we did it, but it was the energy of
Speaker 1: everybody at that time. Black people was coming up. He
Speaker 1: wasn't taking it no more. We saw all these other expressions,
Speaker 1: all these other things, Like I remember we won the
Speaker 1: game and we jumped on the scores table and did
Speaker 1: hip hop and ran had the whole crowd doing it. Right.
Speaker 1: I'm just doing it because I love hip hop and
Speaker 1: I want to feel like around. I want to I
Speaker 1: want to know how y'all do it. And I remember
Speaker 1: the criticism they came after, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like when I really think about it, man, dog, I
Speaker 1: was eighteen getting death threats, Dog, You know what I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm talking hand for having fun though you ain't letting
Speaker 1: these five black guys what these niggers up here doing
Speaker 1: like I'm talking about like it was crazy, you know,
Speaker 1: to the point where I'm worried. And now I got
Speaker 1: my voice from the coming sitting by my parents again,
Speaker 1: it's you know what I mean now, but it's a
Speaker 1: different time the web. Two. Not to cut you off
Speaker 1: because it's common now because social media, any coward has
Speaker 1: a voice, But back then they had to like, really,
Speaker 1: somehow get that ship. This is the early nineties, so
Speaker 1: it had to be like a handwritten letter. There was more,
Speaker 1: there was more hate behind it. Yeah yeah, and it
Speaker 1: makes you too, you know at that time. Now these
Speaker 1: are all good things because you can't have courage without fear.
Speaker 1: So so I'm not gonna act like nobody was a
Speaker 1: scar these times. But I really have to think our
Speaker 1: parents because your question, it's like, what what got it was?
Speaker 1: We were built for the hell I'm gonna cry about this.
Speaker 1: My father came from you know what I like, it's builtful,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. My mother she like when
Speaker 1: I went to Dukes, she like, um, yeah, you like that.
Speaker 1: You like architecture, right, so you like the architecture, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's like a black man designed all of the himn't
Speaker 1: getting no, you know, I mean like they are. We're
Speaker 1: ready for it, you know what I mean. That's why
Speaker 1: it doesn't surprise me j or TV now, it doesn't
Speaker 1: surprise me other things. So you know, I can't take
Speaker 1: one moment, I just take all of us. It did
Speaker 1: a lot for us, man, because growing up, we like,
Speaker 1: we watched y'all when we watched the Baby, because we
Speaker 1: felt like we were y'all, like these are five guys
Speaker 1: that's the best from the bottom, that's the best confidence
Speaker 1: and and and they're supporting each other. And another thing
Speaker 1: we talked about Big three. You can never duplicate the
Speaker 1: Fab five. We're talking about Big three right now they're
Speaker 1: talking about Big three teams. Why ain't nobody talking about
Speaker 1: the Fab five Because you can't duplicate that. It was
Speaker 1: y'all was meant to be the cornerstone and the culture
Speaker 1: at that time. Bro, you know what I mean, we
Speaker 1: appreciate it because it didn't a lot for us. I
Speaker 1: appreciate the fact you said that you saw yourself on us.
Speaker 1: I promise you that's why I used to be like
Speaker 1: at the game, I used had tears in my eyes.
Speaker 1: Our mom is watching the game, or you know, even commentating,
Speaker 1: like some of the reason and some of the ways
Speaker 1: I commentates on purpose because I know what they said
Speaker 1: about we cut our hair. We cut our hair. Dog.
Speaker 1: It's like my father always, you know, my father, my father.
Speaker 1: People think Joan, my father's Joan. There. My father looked
Speaker 1: like Mohammed and I led him Will Smith like all
Speaker 1: that he had the same army haircut and and we're like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna make you cut your hair, pretty boy. You
Speaker 1: know we go to the final four, you gotta cut
Speaker 1: his hair. Ball all of us cut out hair. And
Speaker 1: I remember the game. You know, my mother she just said,
Speaker 1: you know, I was messed up. You know they said
Speaker 1: y'all look like dougs. But she wanted me to hear that.
Speaker 1: And he's like, oh, you you want to see you
Speaker 1: want to see what this is on the court. And
Speaker 1: that's really show I asked today. So we were built
Speaker 1: for and we had a lot of people. So many
Speaker 1: people support us, man and give us that energy because
Speaker 1: it was a lot to carry. Maybe maybe not, you
Speaker 1: really don't remember, but I remember the love, especially for
Speaker 1: your age, though, that's a lot to have on your shoulders.
Speaker 1: I got the pictures my whole team six State championship
Speaker 1: old team hand because y'all did it. Yeah. Yeah, So
Speaker 1: obviously there's been talks. And since I feel like you're
Speaker 1: my big brother, I'm gonna go ahead and ask you
Speaker 1: that at the thirty thirty dot came out you weren't
Speaker 1: involved in it. Where did the Fab five situation gone wrong?
Speaker 1: And is it right it today? Yeah? So I don't
Speaker 1: think the fab fire situation ever went wrong? Okay, you know,
Speaker 1: like I said, I mean I talked to Time, right,
Speaker 1: so I don't know outside looking in. Yeah, I talked
Speaker 1: to Catch too much. You know, if if they if
Speaker 1: this was a lot, they'd be trying to text nine
Speaker 1: tuk up the interview. But I would say that, I
Speaker 1: would say that the deterioration of me and j Rose
Speaker 1: relationship could probably have an effect on every you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, and so I've always tried to be careful,
Speaker 1: but you're my brother, and this we're just gonna do it.
Speaker 1: I've tried to be careful of how to talk about
Speaker 1: my relationship because you don't understand I'm I'm the oldest
Speaker 1: of five. So my mother taught me a couple of things.
Speaker 1: If I'm fighting my brother in the street and the
Speaker 1: stranger try to break us up, beat the a and
Speaker 1: get back to fighting at like, how do you How
Speaker 1: the hell are you getting an offer? You know what
Speaker 1: I mean? When we love each other, we fight, So
Speaker 1: that's one thing. And then just it's not fair to
Speaker 1: say my side without someone they're saying that side. And
Speaker 1: I feel like the whole time it has been a
Speaker 1: negative coming at me. Like I felt like, damn at
Speaker 1: all people that hate me and all the white people
Speaker 1: all listen all that that's been trying to get me
Speaker 1: for years. You you you yeah, that ship hurt me
Speaker 1: to my court. Dog. I'm holding in tears right now,
Speaker 1: right but I'm not perfect. I'm not saying that. So
Speaker 1: this ain't no sides or nothing. It's just someone my
Speaker 1: brother's show telling you what happened. So with that, and
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a big brother, so I know how to
Speaker 1: get out the way. Matter of fact, I get out
Speaker 1: the way too much. So I just want people at
Speaker 1: the end of the day that the brothers to remember
Speaker 1: they don't love us. That's all. That's all I know.
Speaker 1: They don't love me, and you can be a good
Speaker 1: man knowing they don't love you know, my mother used
Speaker 1: to have a saying, you know, who are they to
Speaker 1: be equal to whatever that whatever that means a basketball
Speaker 1: player for forty years, just a businessman, who was he
Speaker 1: to be equal to? You know? We you know, you know,
Speaker 1: so you know I was, you know, I was. I
Speaker 1: think that me being like damn, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like things said you called time out on purpose things
Speaker 1: and it said like you lied in court like that?
Speaker 1: Would that would hurt any real one with knowing that
Speaker 1: you righteous, with knowing that you don't do nothing to
Speaker 1: especially to your brother in that form we like you said,
Speaker 1: we're not perfect, but in that form to initially hurt
Speaker 1: you as a brother, that showed her brow. And it's
Speaker 1: this song, uh stars, this is this is those songs,
Speaker 1: an old song in the seventies. I think in this
Speaker 1: Jian Jan this I don't know a name, but janis
Speaker 1: jopling Jane's iron. It's not jobbing. I know what we're
Speaker 1: talking about. I'm probably chopping this girl name. But she says, uh,
Speaker 1: how do you make amends without defending? Like if I
Speaker 1: say to you, you know, stock Man, you ain't never
Speaker 1: you don't you ever come back and come to the
Speaker 1: point you address it. At some point You're gonna have
Speaker 1: to be like, hey, dog, you know what happened, right,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, And I don't. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do that because I'm working on
Speaker 1: I've been working on forgetting this dog, because I want
Speaker 1: God to forgive me, you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 1: when it talks about forget sometimes sometimes like it just
Speaker 1: click with me. It ain't forget that many times. It's
Speaker 1: that might take that might that might be how many
Speaker 1: times you gotta forgive? You know what I mean? Because
Speaker 1: I could be late again today, like you have to
Speaker 1: forgive me again. You have to forgive me again, you know.
Speaker 1: And I want out forgive me. I want to forgive
Speaker 1: this for my brothers. I want you know and so
Speaker 1: but what I've learned is I can forgive you without
Speaker 1: fucking with you. I love you from a distance and
Speaker 1: I would tell you this. We're brothers, and I know
Speaker 1: it'll it'll I know you know again we're brothers, so
Speaker 1: you know, but I've never said nothing about it. And
Speaker 1: I'm just like you got the biggest media company in
Speaker 1: the world. Yo, biggest doc ever. I hope you're on
Speaker 1: the story. I hope you're on that because but but
Speaker 1: but that's to see me being laid back, trying to
Speaker 1: be cool and not saying nothing. That's God also saying like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you better quit running from confrontation and tell your story
Speaker 1: because you got a sun coming up. You're gonna let
Speaker 1: him think. That's what this. That's why I got the
Speaker 1: book and adopt and I'm gonna inspire some mother for
Speaker 1: kids because I'm gonna really show you what it's like.
Speaker 1: Like I'm not embarrassed to what my father came from. You.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't beat me without him right now to let
Speaker 1: him know like this this let's go. You know my
Speaker 1: mother too. So if that inspire somebody else through the
Speaker 1: pain I already had, now it's it's a lot of pain,
Speaker 1: but it's you already had it. It ain't like you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, So you might as well do
Speaker 1: something with it, you know, from it, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? So Yeah, I can't wait to like, you know,
Speaker 1: tell a couple of stories and things like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And we've been working on it for like dog, we're
Speaker 1: working on this for like eight years. Man, the book
Speaker 1: is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.
Speaker 1: I won't let nobody else write it. I got two
Speaker 1: great researchers. How I started writing the book, I had
Speaker 1: a stenographer coming to the house in Malibu sign a
Speaker 1: n D A Rotes and um spit, just emotional vomit.
Speaker 1: Then I would look and be like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: now let me go back and research. Then we would
Speaker 1: have a dot and we're going to now while Peters
Speaker 1: doing the dot. Okay, can I interview you after? Okay?
Speaker 1: Because it wasn't like I have to do it by myself,
Speaker 1: because I could follow this and so you know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's the toughest thing and and the best
Speaker 1: thing I've ever done, because you've got to own up
Speaker 1: as a man too again and ain't just oh this guy,
Speaker 1: this guy, I'm I'm more at far than anyone in
Speaker 1: this world. That's the way I started every problem, starting
Speaker 1: to things right here. Once you can be real with
Speaker 1: yourself and what people do. Understand when you're forgiving somebody,
Speaker 1: it's not for them, so you can let go and
Speaker 1: move on. I don't know, I might not be involved
Speaker 1: with you, but I mean I might not hate you
Speaker 1: and be around you, but I just know how to
Speaker 1: move on without you. And it's that simp and I
Speaker 1: love you from afar like doing. But the deeper thing
Speaker 1: than that is being able to forgive yourself, because like
Speaker 1: you said, we're not perfect, and that's the motherfucker. Forgiving
Speaker 1: yourself is a like to me because I'm doing a
Speaker 1: dot too, and I'm seeing a bunch of amazing mom
Speaker 1: getting chills talking about us, seeing a bunch of amazing
Speaker 1: memories photos of my mom when she was alive, her
Speaker 1: talking on the news for the ship happened to me,
Speaker 1: and just seeing all kinds of ship. But then thinking
Speaker 1: back on my past, like all the mishaps that have happened,
Speaker 1: like finding my part in it, and obviously it wasn't
Speaker 1: just me, but I played a part in it, and
Speaker 1: being able to forgive my part in the situation helps
Speaker 1: you forgive somebody else, because it's everything starts here, everything
Speaker 1: everything starts here. So to be able to forgive yourself,
Speaker 1: that's what I wanted now seeing how you kind of
Speaker 1: laid it out, how dope is it kind of like
Speaker 1: coming across that you forgot or seeing like great parts
Speaker 1: of your life, Like, damn, I forgot about that. You know,
Speaker 1: it's fun up about basketball sports. We've talked to let
Speaker 1: that ship go. Now, that's that's good. Everything has a
Speaker 1: flipped corn. Yeah, forty to night and let that ship
Speaker 1: you got in the game tomorrow. She but let it go, okay,
Speaker 1: because you know, when we could, we could keep being
Speaker 1: like all you know, got to the sweet six team,
Speaker 1: I can't celebrate. You got one night to celebrate, and
Speaker 1: I always say one night to sing. And so with that,
Speaker 1: I put a lot of memories in the back appreciate,
Speaker 1: not appreciating it, living in the moment, and truthfully, I
Speaker 1: wasn't appreciate it. But it was not not trying to
Speaker 1: appreciate it. It was I gotta keep living to get
Speaker 1: to a moment to collect these memories, to sit down
Speaker 1: and say thank you God, I appreciate It's like I
Speaker 1: gotta keep going, like because the minute I sit and
Speaker 1: appreciate it, you're gonna lose anything. It's gonna you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But but that's that's fear that you
Speaker 1: know we have. We have talked that about, you know,
Speaker 1: all that good stuff. So that's what I told you
Speaker 1: at the beginning. It's just been good, this ship. Being
Speaker 1: thankful dog Like, remember how crazy and all that you
Speaker 1: were like in high school? I think what was my
Speaker 1: mind like with the fire fire college high school? It
Speaker 1: was I was just thankful, man, grateful, like I have
Speaker 1: signed up for this everything. We've been through a few
Speaker 1: team and I'm like, what, that's it as hard as like,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So I just try to
Speaker 1: keep that focus because when you're grateful, yeah, more patience.
Speaker 1: You know, you're a little bit wise and you're more aware.
Speaker 1: You know, for me, you comment down a little bit.
Speaker 1: So yeah, man, that's that's it's been good. I appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Like I said, you don't talk, but like I said,
Speaker 1: me knowing you and seeing all this ship, I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's nah nah nah. But the world thinks what they
Speaker 1: see and it hurt though, Matt, because a lot of
Speaker 1: times you just gotta keep living. Yeah, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. But it's hard to just keep living and
Speaker 1: knowing this ship out there about you. Yeah, what about
Speaker 1: when somebody comes to you and be like, yeah, such
Speaker 1: a such he said, Now you don't even know you're
Speaker 1: marked off forever, even when we get back or whatever,
Speaker 1: because you know, so why we had college. Let me
Speaker 1: throw a name out that to you though, because y'all
Speaker 1: got a chance to play against somebody who raised me
Speaker 1: in the tournament. J Tyler remember that name. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: remember that. I remember as a kid man watching y'all
Speaker 1: play them. He was always always looking up to the
Speaker 1: Fat five. But y'all got a chance to play Texas
Speaker 1: in the tournament v. J Tyler point guard and take
Speaker 1: remember that dark skinning fast exactly. I'm like I was
Speaker 1: drafted around saying because he actually was left Philadelphia before
Speaker 1: y'all got traded there. Yeah, but he raised me, and
Speaker 1: I remember that's another moment in my life for thinking
Speaker 1: about him putting a chance to plaguage you'll in the time.
Speaker 1: It was a big moment bro By City. I hope
Speaker 1: we put it on d But you know, it's crazy
Speaker 1: when you say little ship like that. Like I said,
Speaker 1: there's so many moments for other people that they created
Speaker 1: just being them, like not even realizing like what the
Speaker 1: long term effect, or this is a big deal playing
Speaker 1: the Fast five, or I went up against Webb and
Speaker 1: blocked the shot, or he don't you know. I mean,
Speaker 1: like there's little moments like that obviously with all of us,
Speaker 1: but you know, the had of the career he had
Speaker 1: and and and be so impactful. It's it's like you
Speaker 1: leave a lasting impression on everyone you come in contact with,
Speaker 1: and only obviously there's gonna be some hate that comes
Speaker 1: with that, but there's a lot of admiration and love
Speaker 1: that come with it too. And unfortunately, I think it's
Speaker 1: a society we focus on the negativity too much and
Speaker 1: that's what gets most of the energy instead of just
Speaker 1: kind of really realizing, like like you said, thanking God
Speaker 1: for all this amazing ship right here. This allowed me
Speaker 1: to live the life I'm living after basketball and do
Speaker 1: what I want after basketball and raise a family and
Speaker 1: all this kind of ship. And I think too often
Speaker 1: like we don't get a chance to sit back and
Speaker 1: celebrate the great things we've been through and the joyous
Speaker 1: most we've been through, because it's always what's next show.
Speaker 1: I want to be on your on your sun shows.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. His sons came up in
Speaker 1: my wedding and stole the show. Ned in the pool.
Speaker 1: Yeah I'm dancing. I'm dancing on my wedding song and
Speaker 1: the floor. But everybody say, oh, not him and his wife.
Speaker 1: Literally the they were dancing and the twins come they
Speaker 1: were babies, babies. I'm crawling out on the floor. I
Speaker 1: don't know how they both got free at the same time.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, but see stuff like that, I'm an
Speaker 1: breaking neighbor wedding and just that's when that's like, this
Speaker 1: is who you're marry, you know what I mean, embarrassing
Speaker 1: in your pool, pete in your pool, everything, And you know,
Speaker 1: like I realized, like I'm definitely an introvert at times,
Speaker 1: and you know, we don't you know, what we do.
Speaker 1: So it ain't like I'm you know, a man scientists.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I'm not in there being
Speaker 1: an introvert like, oh I don't want It's not that
Speaker 1: it's if it's any love or somebody, I know, come on,
Speaker 1: let's let's get up. I just I just don't like flying. Well.
Speaker 1: You know what's weird is I had two experiences obviously
Speaker 1: one with you and you obvious, see I was you
Speaker 1: were in my life and still in my life, but
Speaker 1: seeing how you are as a person and how the
Speaker 1: world portrayed you, and then seeing how Kobe is as
Speaker 1: a person and seeing how the world portrays him, and
Speaker 1: I remember one time on the bus with Kobe, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: why don't you show the world this motherfucker is Like
Speaker 1: what you mean, it's like who you really are, just
Speaker 1: like I can't show the motherfucker you know, motherfucker's this,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And the same thing with you,
Speaker 1: like I said, one of your greatest things, but also
Speaker 1: you know your ability to kind of just I'll just
Speaker 1: get out the way, you know what I mean, I'll
Speaker 1: remove myself instead of being like, no, funk it, it
Speaker 1: didn't happen like that, you know what I mean. But
Speaker 1: he got me thinking like no, I know where, but
Speaker 1: I know the story that ship didn't happen like that.
Speaker 1: But it's just like if well, I'm not gonna say nothing,
Speaker 1: I'm listen and keep smoking, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But like you said it, to know how dope you
Speaker 1: are as a human and everything you've touched and how
Speaker 1: giving you are and all this kind of stuff, it
Speaker 1: as a friend of yours and kind of like a
Speaker 1: little brother, like it just naturally bothers me when ship
Speaker 1: floats out you that's negative and it's not true, but
Speaker 1: that keeps me living that keeps me living. Knowing y'all man,
Speaker 1: I ain't gonna lie. That's why I'm cool. You please
Speaker 1: people like that watching y'all show seeing because y'all defining
Speaker 1: it and breaking it. Like the worst, the worst time
Speaker 1: with my basketball life, Dog, wasn't the time that was
Speaker 1: with you in Philadelphia. I was. I was telling you
Speaker 1: before before the man that Philly round was tough to
Speaker 1: talk about you, Dog, Like, I get inspired because we
Speaker 1: all do things. But you're making it where you're from,
Speaker 1: You're doing this, You're going through what you're going through now.
Speaker 1: I'm never going through nothing like that, talking about being
Speaker 1: lonely working with the court system. So I'm praying for you.
Speaker 1: I've cried for you, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 1: so we that strength I'm telling you, like I take
Speaker 1: I take it from y'all. I still all good energy.
Speaker 1: I swear to y'all like, how y'all doing this? I'm like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: what you gonna do with you? Know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: So that inspired? But my we in Philly, man, and
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I really don't even know
Speaker 1: if you if you're really really I don't even know
Speaker 1: if you really understand that it's the worst time in
Speaker 1: my life. I get traded Sacramento. This was funny. I
Speaker 1: had a no trade clause. I'm gonna tell you I'm stuck.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm telling you. Like I don't like like
Speaker 1: Michigan State taking the picture. I'm not gonna come with me.
Speaker 1: So after all these years, I signed back with sacrament
Speaker 1: I want to be there. I could have been traded
Speaker 1: to the Lakers, could have gone this one. David Robinson
Speaker 1: had his back hurt, and there's gonna put Dave and
Speaker 1: have me start with him. This is what I was told.
Speaker 1: Pap was my assistant. Uh and going to State my
Speaker 1: rookie year. Yeah, we're in Dallas and we used to
Speaker 1: just we pumped like Dallas. We we only we wanted
Speaker 1: the Lakers, like we didn't even take that serious. They
Speaker 1: were great, but they weren't even close to them. Someone
Speaker 1: Dallas like the phone call from Jeff Peach and he's like, hey, Chris, Like, hey, no,
Speaker 1: GM has ever called me on my phone before at
Speaker 1: the beginning of a road trip to they let us
Speaker 1: pack for a long after here too. Remever, I forgot that.
Speaker 1: I forgot that. So I'll never forget because it's one
Speaker 1: of my favorite hotels. Um, yeah, man, we didn't move. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we didn't do the roof off that hotel. That was
Speaker 1: much weed as we didn't smoke it there that the
Speaker 1: Crescent and like Chris and this slick high put it
Speaker 1: on me. He goes fil definitily, really just really trying
Speaker 1: to trade for you. I said, what y'all said? He's like, well,
Speaker 1: you know we're interested whatever. I said, So, let me
Speaker 1: get this straight. You're the gym. You're calling me the
Speaker 1: guy that you beg to come here. And because I
Speaker 1: have a trade clause, you didn't call my agent because
Speaker 1: you know I get emotional and you you know who
Speaker 1: I am. He said yeah, I said, so you think
Speaker 1: I want to come back? Said no, I said, funk.
Speaker 1: Y'all hung up the phone, called Ai I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: I don't even know how I got his number. I
Speaker 1: don't even I don't even know. It had to be
Speaker 1: within five minutes. It had to literally be in five minutes.
Speaker 1: Made my agent or somebody called. It was like yeah,
Speaker 1: it's mom gonna cook for you this and that, and
Speaker 1: I was like I'm gone, Like it wouldn't even know
Speaker 1: other conversation. I was so hurt. If I had to
Speaker 1: do it all over again, I probably have said nine
Speaker 1: N I would have said, you know what, No, I'm good.
Speaker 1: But because I and what was so dope? Man? This
Speaker 1: was so dope. Bobby Jackson Vibby came in the room.
Speaker 1: We prayed, you know what I mean. Then I went
Speaker 1: out just drinks, not just and it was to me
Speaker 1: and magg get traded. We're in the hotel. The game
Speaker 1: is in three days against Sacramento. We get traded the
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Sacramento comes in places we were. Yeah, we were
Speaker 1: supposed to go. That was part of our road trip,
Speaker 1: was going to go to Philly on this road trip
Speaker 1: we had packed for so Dallas was just the first
Speaker 1: stop and we were there and I'm telling you, man,
Speaker 1: the Philly organization, actually there's some really good people because
Speaker 1: they still send me things like I've been there. I
Speaker 1: love them. That was the worst time ever. You practice
Speaker 1: in the college. You have to pay for park and
Speaker 1: pay to have your clothes. Wich's not things. You got it.
Speaker 1: But you're just like this is this is a team. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the team is so bad. I'm like, yeah, you've been
Speaker 1: doing this though, you know how now it's rest management.
Speaker 1: He got them. Hey, I call it half a head.
Speaker 1: He got them running. Uh yeah, he got them running sprints.
Speaker 1: Uh shoot around, Hey, Andre Iguardala lou Will. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, the NBA is not like this, y'all.
Speaker 1: It's it's terrible. I remember one practice, a coach tells Matt,
Speaker 1: Matt shoots a brick. Coach teller, Matt, don't you ever
Speaker 1: shoot the ball again? My line's cheeks cheeks, but go
Speaker 1: ahead and tell a story. But he said, don't you
Speaker 1: haven't shoot the ball again. And we're just like, no,
Speaker 1: that ain't cool. Man. Like everybody on this team, we
Speaker 1: were a card, like you shoot it. So when I
Speaker 1: had hired your shooting, come ever. But I wasn't playing
Speaker 1: like I was, and Webb kept me off the edge
Speaker 1: like I'm fine, I'm gonna play football basketball. I'm done.
Speaker 1: And he was the one that was inspired me. And man,
Speaker 1: you've got so many years ahead. E this isn't that.
Speaker 1: But go ahead, so he gets to shoot. Coach, you
Speaker 1: do all this, so make a long story short. Matt
Speaker 1: get traded. I mean mag get traded. I forgot who
Speaker 1: you want the Golden State, remember the Golden Staff and
Speaker 1: we're cheering for you. On the side, I'm cheering for, like,
Speaker 1: don't shooting that walk up three? Don't shooting that walk
Speaker 1: up three? How many three? Shoot? It was? It a
Speaker 1: record was talking the whole time and I hit I
Speaker 1: hit for like remember, and then drove up the sack
Speaker 1: after the game. He was having fun, but Mo Chief
Speaker 1: was talking the whole game and I ended up hitting
Speaker 1: for like eight. I hit like six or seven threes,
Speaker 1: and it was so vindicating because of that situation, Like
Speaker 1: this dude told me and pray it was a practice.
Speaker 1: Now I was wide open. I just missed a shot,
Speaker 1: and I literally had hired his shooting coach because I
Speaker 1: wasn't playing, So I wasn't a type of moe for
Speaker 1: this complaining. I was just working to hopefully get a shot,
Speaker 1: and he was so caught up and still trying to
Speaker 1: be cool and funny and not being a coach that like,
Speaker 1: I want to whip his I still don't funck Mo
Speaker 1: Cheeks to this day because of the his bit aasseness
Speaker 1: in philling is the reason why I think I belonged
Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame. Out of here. That was
Speaker 1: a tough time, man, Like I said, because what when
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to what you did in Sacramento, I guess,
Speaker 1: but it's that was just, Uh, that's like when we
Speaker 1: became family, you know what I mean, Like we're stuck
Speaker 1: in the in the phoenix, ho for the phoenix. That's
Speaker 1: definitely when I became your family because I love you
Speaker 1: him a young boy. I didn't know he was gonna
Speaker 1: get traded, and that was the worst season. I think
Speaker 1: I more than to have a drinker. I want to
Speaker 1: leave the league, you know what I mean. I told
Speaker 1: me I wasn't even know happy drinking. It was. I
Speaker 1: got the facts them all and it was crazy about
Speaker 1: all that is that the best time in my life? Dog.
Speaker 1: For the best times we had there, it was after
Speaker 1: we go to the game and your mom and my
Speaker 1: mom came in there and got drunk. Your mom and
Speaker 1: his mom two good times man. And uh it was
Speaker 1: right before you found out what she was doing. And
Speaker 1: we had some real talks like were you over there?
Speaker 1: We're not thinking of you when she's telling me about
Speaker 1: your childhood and telling me how she loved you and
Speaker 1: telling me you funny and hard head. And I was
Speaker 1: asking that did you get in trouble when he was
Speaker 1: a little she'd be like, yeah, he's mischievous. She told
Speaker 1: me about one party this dude had where she was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. She told me about what your papa did,
Speaker 1: but you were charging to get in the back yard
Speaker 1: and selling weed or something. And she was like, she
Speaker 1: was like, I realized how much he made. And I
Speaker 1: was like, you ever think he to the least? She
Speaker 1: was like, I thought he played football. He was always
Speaker 1: a hard worker. But me and her had some Me
Speaker 1: and her had some wonderful times. Man, And that's why
Speaker 1: you're real because of your parents, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: or the people that was with them to put it
Speaker 1: into it, but she she and our times there was
Speaker 1: the bright spot dog that. It was the same thing
Speaker 1: he caught a little bit at the we believe shi
Speaker 1: right before she died. It was the same thing. He said,
Speaker 1: you speak about his mom and found of my mom.
Speaker 1: She initially breaks down because you meet very few people
Speaker 1: in your life what they instantly affect you, Like you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. She affected all of the stuff
Speaker 1: like that. I'm messing that. I wish i'd know you
Speaker 1: was younger. You know, I thought so much my mom
Speaker 1: had to come be the yard duty at my school.
Speaker 1: Like that's how much it was. Just that's just what
Speaker 1: it was. But I could you imagine her too, raised
Speaker 1: in the black son, how strong she had to be
Speaker 1: right and know ithing we're adopted. She run understand on punk,
Speaker 1: you can't have kids like that. That's why I get
Speaker 1: strimmed from all that. Man, Just well, let's get back
Speaker 1: on track. Obviously, you did what you did at Michigan
Speaker 1: first picking the draft. You think you're going to play
Speaker 1: with shocking Orlando and you get traded for Penny. What's
Speaker 1: going through your head? I ain't never been to Callie.
Speaker 1: What's going on in Callie? Tim Hardaway there, Oh he
Speaker 1: got to cross over Chris Mullin. It's pretty billy. Oh
Speaker 1: I was billy. Yeah yeah, I was everyone. No time
Speaker 1: to be you know, there was no time to think
Speaker 1: about it be sad. It was live. It was Detroit.
Speaker 1: I one. It's so crazy to ride. I was on.
Speaker 1: I won three state championships, two in that arena and
Speaker 1: just called the timeline come off like the worst moment,
Speaker 1: you know, I go home and my mom dope story
Speaker 1: she has, uh just like two days I'm at home
Speaker 1: and um, you know down getting her food or cooking,
Speaker 1: getting spoiled. I love it whatever. And you know my
Speaker 1: father ain't saying that He's gonna let me, you know,
Speaker 1: get all my things. And so my mother comes in
Speaker 1: like um, she just lights and played the said time out.
Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, I'm on my car. Was like, why
Speaker 1: would you do that? She was like what but with
Speaker 1: the devil back guy, I meant that for good, We're
Speaker 1: gonna inspire some people were about to start to stay
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. She you know, teaching mom could do it.
Speaker 1: Oh mom can do something. She said it off and
Speaker 1: Detroit on this my baby car time. I wish your
Speaker 1: baby do. Tell him it's gonna be okay, Like it
Speaker 1: was just I would go speak it was. It was
Speaker 1: actually one of the best things ever to go give
Speaker 1: your pain to people and let them think they paid
Speaker 1: was nothing. You know what I mean. I know my
Speaker 1: paid for a minute to raise somebody's started just a
Speaker 1: thirty second yeah and so and made me feel good.
Speaker 1: So once I went home, you get down. You know
Speaker 1: a lot of people support you, Like I get a
Speaker 1: letter from President, you get a letter from like Jackie
Speaker 1: you the Cursey her shoes. You know, people loving you,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't much hate or at least I couldn't
Speaker 1: feel like because it was no social media. And then
Speaker 1: you know, being down, and then thirty days later when
Speaker 1: they announced my name on the stage picked up. It
Speaker 1: was the most nervous. I remember trying to be cool
Speaker 1: and holding the piece out. My hand was shaking, and
Speaker 1: I just remember being like, man, gods, you're great, right,
Speaker 1: It's just just a couple of weeks ago, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? And I promise you never never since
Speaker 1: that moment on stage, had I ever thought about the
Speaker 1: time out like you you know what I mean? Just yeah,
Speaker 1: I really I really wouldn't. I really wouldn't change anything,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But that moment that was
Speaker 1: that was that was the moment getting drafted it. So
Speaker 1: I was more geeked about. You know, I had a
Speaker 1: party that night. Everybody. I don't know how everybody at
Speaker 1: the party had Golden States had that was dope about
Speaker 1: the trade. The draft started. Seven wasn't those stories over?
Speaker 1: I don't know how they got all everybody had them on.
Speaker 1: Everybody had gonna say, that's that's the love. So what's
Speaker 1: your first taste of the band? Because we had a
Speaker 1: fucking blast out there. What was your first taste. It's
Speaker 1: a whole because people don't understand that she really been.
Speaker 1: The Bay is a whole different world in itself. The
Speaker 1: Bay is that the band is the West coast Detroit
Speaker 1: to be the Bay is the West coast shout out
Speaker 1: to forty and I'm like, I to I get to
Speaker 1: I just the Bay short for the uh rapid foote
Speaker 1: SA give me like I was. I just jumped into
Speaker 1: I was. I was part of the community, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So it welcomed you though, because that's
Speaker 1: how we were, like we jumped right in and they
Speaker 1: loved that. Now I love Oakland to this day, the
Speaker 1: Bay area and everything. So when I got to it
Speaker 1: was cool man. But we first practice Tim Hardaway tear
Speaker 1: his knee up. I had approtected me all this other stuff.
Speaker 1: So the year got started off slowly. But those were
Speaker 1: straight up the loudest fans that you know, Sacramento too,
Speaker 1: but that Bays. So you're in the league now, Um
Speaker 1: you had to his story or just something. That's one
Speaker 1: of the most amazing plays still to this day. When
Speaker 1: you went behind the back and dunked on Barkley, uh
Speaker 1: your rookie year. Take us back to that, because like
Speaker 1: we gotta definitely make sure we edit that and get
Speaker 1: the full range, like what was going through. I mean,
Speaker 1: Barkley probably some when you looked up to one of
Speaker 1: my favorite players at the time, you went behind the
Speaker 1: back and dunked on At the time, I did, Dave,
Speaker 1: that was mad because I wanted the Barkley's bark is
Speaker 1: my favorite player. He came to my high school. I
Speaker 1: met him. I was like when I saw him, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, the first NBA or professional sports player
Speaker 1: you see. When you see him, You're like, okay, you
Speaker 1: know I mean, I thought Barkley was like you signed
Speaker 1: them up? Yeah, yeah, I'm like, I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So I'm needing me my
Speaker 1: favorite player. I tried to dunk on people every time
Speaker 1: Spree get the outlet. I used to love playing with guys.
Speaker 1: I hate playing with point guards that wouldn't throw it up,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Spree would always throw it up,
Speaker 1: and my father, my father and all my boys up
Speaker 1: the game. So I flew everybody in because my father,
Speaker 1: you know, gonna be like, yeah, Barkley gonna get you tonight.
Speaker 1: That's all he kept saying, you know, putting it in
Speaker 1: my head, Barkley donna get you all my boys, So
Speaker 1: I don't even know. I used to always go behind
Speaker 1: the back, and Barkley told me he was trying to
Speaker 1: file me because I couldn't shoot free throws. So when
Speaker 1: I went behind the back and I got him, the
Speaker 1: first thing I do is look up to my pop
Speaker 1: because I popsed my hero, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like what now? Like who else you got for me
Speaker 1: to slay down here? You know? All my boys up there?
Speaker 1: He's oh, yeah, it was. It was yeah, man, that was.
Speaker 1: That was the best moment. And then Nike let us
Speaker 1: do a commercial freestyle. I mean we the commercial literally
Speaker 1: took fifteen minutes, you know what I'm saying. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was, I was. That was a good moment. So
Speaker 1: you end up winning Rookie of the Year? Your your
Speaker 1: your rookie year. Um, tell me what transpired that offseason,
Speaker 1: because I don't know if I've ever heard of a
Speaker 1: Rookie of the Year winning Rookie of the Year. And
Speaker 1: then so I thought I called Tom. I didn't go
Speaker 1: to none of my agents meetings, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I was like, so part of the reason why I
Speaker 1: didn't go play with Shocking, Orlando, he tells me, is
Speaker 1: because so after I called the time out, I was like,
Speaker 1: I got movie offers all this. I was like, I
Speaker 1: want nobody likeing me because I I'm about to go
Speaker 1: work out. So I didn't go to the where they're
Speaker 1: feeling blue chips, and every day after practice, Tenning was
Speaker 1: out there diamond blue chips. You know. Shock was like, man,
Speaker 1: I played with them. We was out there playing every day.
Speaker 1: You know, I went to got him so with So
Speaker 1: after that I wouldn't go do any interviews or I
Speaker 1: didn't interview agents. I just said whatever mom, Dad picked
Speaker 1: the agent. So I knew they were gonna, you know,
Speaker 1: interview when they went with Duffy and um uh shooting. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they were definitely a good one, but they broke up.
Speaker 1: So then I went with Bill Strick and this man
Speaker 1: foul Shot and Farel Show never been an agent. He
Speaker 1: was just a c p A. It's a smart cat
Speaker 1: and get a book. He read it all so a rookie.
Speaker 1: They say, Man, what we're gonna do is you're gonna
Speaker 1: sign the largest contract ever but we're gonna get you
Speaker 1: out after the first year. They said that it's a
Speaker 1: risk because if you get hurt, you have a whole
Speaker 1: guarantee because the option is yours is five years seventy
Speaker 1: five million at the time, you know, fifteen years seventy
Speaker 1: five million, so it's great guarantee. But you know we're
Speaker 1: really doing this so you can opt out. So I
Speaker 1: went Rookie of the Year after my contract. So I
Speaker 1: tell Shock all the time, thank you on him because
Speaker 1: I used to get it quietly. Just wait until Shock
Speaker 1: re up. I could time my time and right out
Speaker 1: to him. So a little bit of the beef what
Speaker 1: don Nelson had with me is because he felt I
Speaker 1: had too much control over money because I could, I
Speaker 1: could who Rookie of the Year this year? Anthonyette was
Speaker 1: just imagine if they could sign a new deal and
Speaker 1: get Steph money after one year. That ain't right, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So anyway, that's what it was.
Speaker 1: I opted out my contract. So when I opted out
Speaker 1: of my contract, he went to the owners and said, listen,
Speaker 1: it's this kid. I'm telling him him. You ain't supposed
Speaker 1: to be thinking like this. He's only thinking about the money.
Speaker 1: And you know, blah blah blah blah blah. And I
Speaker 1: wanted to go back to go and stay bad like
Speaker 1: my homies Mummy. I moved to where Molly lived because
Speaker 1: I wanted to follow everything he did. Spree. I mean,
Speaker 1: Billy O took me to buy my first car, Like
Speaker 1: I came home one time my life was out because
Speaker 1: I know I ain't know how to pay the bills.
Speaker 1: Billy had to show him. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So these are my brothers. I want to be there.
Speaker 1: I only played for the fat I'm thinking everything is
Speaker 1: gonna be like this, and then you know it was
Speaker 1: just the smear campaign. You know. I know y'all know
Speaker 1: love Nellie cool because we all have different I have
Speaker 1: a similar ship. So Nellie he did a lot for me.
Speaker 1: As far as I didn't see the game the way
Speaker 1: he did. I didn't know what was gonna turn it today.
Speaker 1: And he allowed them the hand of the ball and
Speaker 1: all that. But you know, when it comes to controlling
Speaker 1: things like that, he really he gets nervous and so
Speaker 1: he does things to fear do push people away. And
Speaker 1: so I told the owners. I told the owners, I
Speaker 1: was like, please, I want to play here. They was
Speaker 1: like no, and and then my my agent was like, man, quick,
Speaker 1: you know you're gonna sign someplace a one year deal now?
Speaker 1: And I was like okay, And my dumbass went to
Speaker 1: the worst team in the league to go play with Jawan.
Speaker 1: Juana didn't even know I was coming. Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: just like, where do you want to get drafted to?
Speaker 1: I'm going on. So that's how I got. It happened. Man,
Speaker 1: I hadn't opted out. You signed a one year deal
Speaker 1: with with the Bullets, so no more in the NBA
Speaker 1: can you sign a long term deal with the out
Speaker 1: after the first because of what my lawyer did. And
Speaker 1: you can no longer sign a one year deal because
Speaker 1: I signed to one of year deals with Washington trying
Speaker 1: to wait to get out. So you get to Washington,
Speaker 1: you got you one there, you got she there, you
Speaker 1: got strict there. She came the next year, the following year,
Speaker 1: right he was drafted. I mean that seems like a
Speaker 1: cool last team too. They should have covered together. Man.
Speaker 1: I loved chocolate. I loved it. I got into black
Speaker 1: art there. I got into politics somewhat there because it
Speaker 1: was the people you can just talk to. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't like you gotta be smart and I was
Speaker 1: just people you talked to and figure it out. So
Speaker 1: I love d C. I was always on you know,
Speaker 1: out of as season is that is that why he
Speaker 1: wrote that about Howard home covering. You know, we had
Speaker 1: a great time with there, man, but they just didn't
Speaker 1: believe in as we were young. We were a young team, man,
Speaker 1: if they were the kep for together. We lost to
Speaker 1: that Bulls team and seventy two wins Bulls team in
Speaker 1: three games by seven points in the playoffs. In one
Speaker 1: game they had to hit it at the last shot.
Speaker 1: Not that we're gonna be that good, but still that
Speaker 1: next year, yeah, they should the couples together. Yeah, touch on,
Speaker 1: because like I said, I think you guys have such
Speaker 1: a huge crossover your time with with with these music artists,
Speaker 1: you know, Big and Sees. I know you're close to
Speaker 1: see still Naas just wins a Grammy. Talk to us
Speaker 1: about that crossover between sports and music, because you were
Speaker 1: right in the mix during your time when you guys know,
Speaker 1: I mean, we all come from the same place, so
Speaker 1: we're gonna have the same things in common, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, And so growing up, you know, so
Speaker 1: I'm sixteen eighty nine and that's you got, you know,
Speaker 1: hip hops in this little bit of peak and so
Speaker 1: growing up, I remember me and Jay Rose used to
Speaker 1: right rips and class and passing back to each other.
Speaker 1: Everybody want to hoop, want to be a rapping vice versa.
Speaker 1: After I left college, Cage g from Naughty by Nature,
Speaker 1: shout out to KG. He's crazy sports fan and we
Speaker 1: were just cool. I would just go to his house
Speaker 1: in New Jersey every summer. Man I go to his
Speaker 1: house in New Jersey, shot out to his parents' family.
Speaker 1: It would just let me stay there. He had a studio.
Speaker 1: I mean I could stay there for days and no
Speaker 1: one come bother you or bother you, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. And then that time I learned how to
Speaker 1: make beats like he had John Ay, that group John
Speaker 1: in the basement, and I mean just watching them, like
Speaker 1: just make beats or you know, other groups are l
Speaker 1: all these other groups that he had, So making beats
Speaker 1: that just let me, like after games and ship come
Speaker 1: back and wind down. And then it just takes you
Speaker 1: to where you meet a couple of people that you
Speaker 1: like minded. You know, you have real relationship with him
Speaker 1: maybe you know, maybe they're hear some ships. So we
Speaker 1: now as it was just here's just somebody I admired
Speaker 1: from Afar. I love his rhymes. When we met, I
Speaker 1: was like, uh, you know, we're not gonna be cool
Speaker 1: because you know, you know, it's just not that type
Speaker 1: of party like going do your thing, I do mine.
Speaker 1: We became close and um, he was just hearing some
Speaker 1: beats and he was like, yo, put that on, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And for me it sounded cool.
Speaker 1: I'm being calm about it, but at that time, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's still one of the biggest accomplishes of my life
Speaker 1: to have a you know song blunt ashes and then
Speaker 1: have um surviving the times on this other album. So
Speaker 1: for me, somebody to make beats and listen to music
Speaker 1: all the time, grew up in Detroit with music is
Speaker 1: that it was. It was just dope being a part
Speaker 1: of it. So take me back to the because you
Speaker 1: were at you were up on stage at the was
Speaker 1: it the Source Awards with the with the East Coast
Speaker 1: West Coast Ship. That was a young ball head of
Speaker 1: you up there right with you and who else was
Speaker 1: up there was you. It's messed up too because I
Speaker 1: come on with Puffy and Safe right after should lay
Speaker 1: it down. So you want to be all the videos
Speaker 1: and I come on stack like I'm I come up,
Speaker 1: I'm wearing black, like I'm part of bad Boy. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know nobody, you know what I mean. But
Speaker 1: it was dope that night because big and was sitting
Speaker 1: right here, and you know he would you know at
Speaker 1: this time, passed back Chrystalal. It was just it was
Speaker 1: to me, it was it was the source of wars, right,
Speaker 1: source of wars, and it was right. It was like
Speaker 1: when Vince Carter was at the dunk contest, when Vince
Speaker 1: did the dunk in two thousand one, that's when it's
Speaker 1: like all the Woutane was sitting on one. Uh, all
Speaker 1: of the death Row was in the was in the middle.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's when death Row came out in the
Speaker 1: cages with you know Lady of Yeah. That's when m
Speaker 1: C eight, That's when DJ Quick was looking right at
Speaker 1: m C eight the whole time he was rapping because
Speaker 1: gen ain't you like, it was just beef. I mean,
Speaker 1: Mob Deep was beefing with uh, both Thugs and harm
Speaker 1: at that time. And I'm a fan, so I'm in
Speaker 1: the back. I'm just I'm just watching kind of oh
Speaker 1: it's kind of guns falling on the floor. Everybody got
Speaker 1: on bulletpool. It was so crazy because I'm thinking, like,
Speaker 1: who in the world at this happened? Like I didn't
Speaker 1: see one security guard, people doing the show, people just
Speaker 1: walking up, and it was the dopest show. I always
Speaker 1: go for my boys and be like, I don't know
Speaker 1: a hip hop show was dopening that? But yeah, he
Speaker 1: came out and that was the whole East Coast West
Speaker 1: Coast be Snoop, Snoop. Was hard for Snoop to do
Speaker 1: that there though, that was they Yeah, that ship was hard.
Speaker 1: I've been comed growing up West Coast. I'm strictly West Coast.
Speaker 1: The only I didn't listen to J at the time.
Speaker 1: The only East Coast person I listened to was was
Speaker 1: I wasn't It wasn't Moutangan. It was big, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. So to to see what the West
Speaker 1: Coast was taken out, that was like, oh ship And
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden you look back in the
Speaker 1: old film, was like, oh ship, that's web right there
Speaker 1: where they look like being in thanks That's what I
Speaker 1: was gimming from the East coast. Yeah, so from Washington. Uh,
Speaker 1: you get traded from MS Richmond. UM. Take us through
Speaker 1: that process of you know, feeling like again you you
Speaker 1: wanted to be somewhere. You wish they would have kept
Speaker 1: you together. You're starting to learn the business of basketball.
Speaker 1: Your shipped off the Sacramento I found out at the store.
Speaker 1: It was during the playoffs. I didn't even know you
Speaker 1: could be shipped off during the playoffs. They didn't call
Speaker 1: my agent and didn't uh didn't tell us it was
Speaker 1: it was they were trying to punish me and send
Speaker 1: me away to like purgatory. That's what I felt at
Speaker 1: the time. Sack was the only place in the league
Speaker 1: I had ever been where the coach let you drive
Speaker 1: to the game and drive home, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like everything. It was like, no, we're trying to get
Speaker 1: out of there as fast as you not because of
Speaker 1: the people, but because of the basketball environment. Like you
Speaker 1: don't know a lot about it. It's not much history,
Speaker 1: and so I didn't want to go to Sack. I
Speaker 1: thought it was the worst thing. I was questioning God.
Speaker 1: And then you know, it's good when you had good
Speaker 1: people in your life, but it's messed up too, because
Speaker 1: my mom she's just not oh yeah, this must be
Speaker 1: the place guy got for you, baby, for everybody. She
Speaker 1: was just so like mine, you don't know who didn't
Speaker 1: even argue about the same thing. But high school though,
Speaker 1: she always right, you know. So I'm on the plane, man,
Speaker 1: it's just a little lady next to me, and I'm
Speaker 1: over I'm looking out the window and all I see
Speaker 1: these fields and that's why I just thought, I'm obviously
Speaker 1: cry but I'm not crying. It's just tears. I'm like,
Speaker 1: looking at this laying it's just tears, and I'm thinking, like, man,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be the worst thing for me. And then,
Speaker 1: you know, after that first practice, I saw that man
Speaker 1: J Will. But my brother called me on wait to practice.
Speaker 1: He's like, you don't like, He's like, I got something
Speaker 1: fun you here, man, Just just listen, be open, be humble, like,
Speaker 1: don't fight it, you know. So I go to practice
Speaker 1: like I'm not gonna fight the first one, even though
Speaker 1: I get the practice three days later, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: come to the first one. But when I get there,
Speaker 1: I won't fight it. And then it comes to this
Speaker 1: loud mouth, Hey shot it. J Will just loud. It
Speaker 1: just loud, you know what I'm saying. I'm like, this
Speaker 1: guy man, and he come in the first thing, he's
Speaker 1: just he's dripping in the ball with the weights on
Speaker 1: his hands, you know what I mean. He's doing all
Speaker 1: that and he's just handling the rock. And then we
Speaker 1: get into the first play, the first three on two
Speaker 1: and he hit a dude on the other side, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, let me see what happened. We come
Speaker 1: back on the two on one. I'm like, oh, it's something, something,
Speaker 1: something different. Then we go outside. He's playing somebody from
Speaker 1: Florida hip hop that eight Main Street, but you got
Speaker 1: to know hip hopter this. I'm like, man, who is
Speaker 1: this kid? Man? And then man he became you know
Speaker 1: when I when I love playing with him. He you know,
Speaker 1: I love ja will remember. I mean, that's kind of
Speaker 1: when you came into my life from a standpoint of like,
Speaker 1: I'm a Lakers fan growing up, Fab five fan growing up,
Speaker 1: but then you came to Sacramento where I'm at him like,
Speaker 1: because Sacramento basketball was terrible up to that point, I'm like, damn,
Speaker 1: we gotta see Webb. And then damn we got we
Speaker 1: got Jake Will too, and then you got you know,
Speaker 1: you got Bobby Jackson, you got Christie like Page, you
Speaker 1: gotta start building a squad. I'm like, okay, they got
Speaker 1: something here. So how long do you feel like it
Speaker 1: took you guys to get that chemistry? Because you said
Speaker 1: once you stepped on for you saw it in Sleep
Speaker 1: with j Will. One one we played San Antonio the
Speaker 1: first game and I watched it for something a little
Speaker 1: while ago, and it was the first game everybody was on, like,
Speaker 1: I don't think it took that long. I remember delivering
Speaker 1: pieces with Jay Will. We made the playoffs for the
Speaker 1: first time in like ten eleven years, and it looked
Speaker 1: like a college game because people were camping out for
Speaker 1: the playoffs to do out there, and me and Jay
Speaker 1: took the pizzas there, you know. But but you right,
Speaker 1: it ain't it ain't much to do out there, but
Speaker 1: it is. And that's why I fell in love with Sacked,
Speaker 1: because I was like these first motherfuckers that accept oh
Speaker 1: they love you, they love and when they did that,
Speaker 1: but you know how to stack when somebody put there,
Speaker 1: you know, it's like, if you want to trick me,
Speaker 1: just act like you love me. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: that's the easiest way because I'm like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: what it is, sat, this is what it is, and
Speaker 1: y'all Coyle Bell's y'all we got signed, lady. This this
Speaker 1: what y'all want. This is y'all want. So I found
Speaker 1: the home man. Remember when you thought about leaving the
Speaker 1: want of the Moylan. They was ready to do anything
Speaker 1: for like we was the savior. You know, they came
Speaker 1: to Sacramento. It was it was for real. So you
Speaker 1: guys had some nice runs, um getting going. Obviously you know,
Speaker 1: face the Lakers, um lose and then get him in
Speaker 1: the Western Conference Finals. Seconds to that Western Conference Finals
Speaker 1: series because there was a lot of ship that went on,
Speaker 1: particularly Game six, and then you know they're going to
Speaker 1: win in Sweet New Jersey. To me, that was that
Speaker 1: was your guys championship. Yeah, you know, it's funny because
Speaker 1: I know we're gonna get a lot of flak from
Speaker 1: talking about this, but I just I want to say this.
Speaker 1: Everything i'm gonna say, I'm gonna saying stand by, But
Speaker 1: we didn't win the championship, so I'm not making that
Speaker 1: as excute. But we got cheated Game six, No question.
Speaker 1: It's just it's just no question. And people that say
Speaker 1: we didn't and don't watch the game. I don't even
Speaker 1: have time to talk to. I even said one time,
Speaker 1: coming down, the fix is in. Nobody played defense. Ful
Speaker 1: that you played defense next time? You know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: it wasn't It wasn't the same as it is today.
Speaker 1: Everybody loved them for today. It's a nice team playing,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? It wasn't the same. You
Speaker 1: could you could? You know. I've seen the podcast. I've
Speaker 1: gone down the rabbit holes. I'm not even gonna go
Speaker 1: there because I love the league and I do believe it.
Speaker 1: That was a one game by one bad guy probably
Speaker 1: or something like. I don't even really want to know
Speaker 1: truthfully what happened. So I don't want to know. But
Speaker 1: I remember the locker room after that game. I said
Speaker 1: to the team in my life, it's the first time
Speaker 1: I ever felt cheating in my life. And watching the game,
Speaker 1: I know what happened, and you know, you should have
Speaker 1: made our free those games seven. But I can't alive
Speaker 1: I was it was after game six. Ah, It's like
Speaker 1: they took my heart. Man. It was like I was like,
Speaker 1: if we can't like y'all see what it is. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, you guys were, you know, a tip away
Speaker 1: from going up three one. You know, mean you guys
Speaker 1: are about to go through up three one against Kobe
Speaker 1: and Shock's team, you know, I mean, and me and
Speaker 1: me and Cole talked about me and Shock talk about it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And they would say the
Speaker 1: exact same thing. E said, we should have won game seven.
Speaker 1: If you talked that win games seven? You know it's cold,
Speaker 1: you know you talked that, like all right, okay, and
Speaker 1: you're right right, but you know there's the But I
Speaker 1: like the st the play you guys brought to the league. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, Don Nelson was an innovator. We were talking
Speaker 1: about this before the show. But they have two passing
Speaker 1: bigs with the i Q and the vision that you
Speaker 1: and Bloody had and a bunch of shooters and a
Speaker 1: few playmakers around. You guys captivated basketball with your style
Speaker 1: of play. Uh what do you attribute that to? Buying in?
Speaker 1: You know, Coach Krel told me when I came to
Speaker 1: he was like, and Coach Krel a real one here,
Speaker 1: real when he would like bring you a beard back
Speaker 1: of the bus and be like, you're mad at the son. Chris.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, like you want to be on the post.
Speaker 1: Huh you want the ball. He's like, I need you
Speaker 1: to play this way. He's like, you make people better,
Speaker 1: continue to make people better. I was like, alright, coach,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And that's the thing. We
Speaker 1: had guys that could play. So it's easy to get
Speaker 1: a triple dum when you handed off the stack, Zack
Speaker 1: or you you know what I'm saying. So it's like,
Speaker 1: be selfish for yourself to make everybody else, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. And so I think it was all
Speaker 1: of us wanting to play. I think it was the work.
Speaker 1: I think I think it was do was like Doug
Speaker 1: Christie and Bobby Jackson, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: I think about how hard dog worked every day and practice,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I think about the spirit
Speaker 1: of our bench or how we were. So I think
Speaker 1: it was do we really care for each other and
Speaker 1: we wanted to win, and we knew that was the
Speaker 1: only way we could win it with big old Diesel
Speaker 1: when cob over there, you know, so, but you're right
Speaker 1: we were that. Yeah, we was killing we was killing
Speaker 1: New Jersey. Yeah, that's the best record in the league
Speaker 1: that year. How good would it like? One of the
Speaker 1: best teams ever period, one of the most dominant, one
Speaker 1: of the best teams ever, but one of the best
Speaker 1: coach teams ever. You ever have a coach talk to
Speaker 1: y'all and get y'all calm or work with you all
Speaker 1: mentally before a game. I have this film turn the
Speaker 1: Lights Off, Little Noises. We just sit here before we
Speaker 1: watch film, and it was awesome. Other ship, I mean,
Speaker 1: come on, I mean even if you look at like,
Speaker 1: you know, Shaq car the other this teammates, you know,
Speaker 1: but just how you know, and you've had to play
Speaker 1: that role. You know how tough of a role it
Speaker 1: is to do your job in the iss your type
Speaker 1: role or in the who else? Even Smoky Smoky sorry
Speaker 1: if I ever seen some Moki uh Smoky dancing after
Speaker 1: they wanted the championships anyway, So I want to play
Speaker 1: against Smoki. I want to come out of retirement just
Speaker 1: to go one on one with Sbaki. But that's just
Speaker 1: in my head. But they were stack. They want the
Speaker 1: best teams because from their bitch to everybody on the beach,
Speaker 1: they all knew they roll man, that's why they you know,
Speaker 1: ain't nobody go rog Ain't nobody try to get one
Speaker 1: for themselves, Rick Fox, ain't try to do nothing, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. So with that team, man, they
Speaker 1: they didn't want the toughest step to play because you
Speaker 1: got a double shot. And I don't care when nobody
Speaker 1: said cold, still was one of the coldest because he
Speaker 1: would check your best player, ain't come down again thirty
Speaker 1: after going over nineteen. Yeah, confidence the same, I can't
Speaker 1: take him off again. We I was on the team
Speaker 1: when they was on the way to a four pint
Speaker 1: and we stopped in in San Antonio end winn. The
Speaker 1: championship with that team was special, man, because I remember
Speaker 1: what Kobe was willing them back into the series by himself.
Speaker 1: You know, it's him that basically took shot out that year.
Speaker 1: But Kobe was just just willing themselves back into the
Speaker 1: game by himself. And I knew they was trying to
Speaker 1: get that for a championship, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: They was playing like it. But that team was one
Speaker 1: of the best teams I've ever seen. Yea, So we
Speaker 1: get you guys fall short and Sacramento, Um, we discussed
Speaker 1: earlier the trade to Philly, um and then after that
Speaker 1: you hit a few, you get a chance to go home.
Speaker 1: Talk to us about the Detroit situation before you hung
Speaker 1: it up. Best locker room I've been there. Who's in there?
Speaker 1: Who would remind us of the locker room? She Chauncey
Speaker 1: rep re tation mc dice, the campbell, Huh, it was
Speaker 1: the best team, man, just because we all were old.
Speaker 1: It just was no bullshit. There's no bullshit. It was
Speaker 1: out of practice, like for real. I got taped, so
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know. Freeze uh and in
Speaker 1: Vegas now has made him jump in the pool. So
Speaker 1: so we would bring our boys that like two on two.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about guys getting off work from the factory.
Speaker 1: I got two of them coming and ripped. Got to
Speaker 1: everybody got to, and we're betting on our boys to win.
Speaker 1: Videotaping it. Joe d they favorite player is sitting right
Speaker 1: here and watching them. We got somebody taking score in
Speaker 1: Sometimes you might just have somebody coming in the chin.
Speaker 1: So we get out of practice earlier every day because
Speaker 1: we got a bracket of our teams. Your boys playing.
Speaker 1: Freeze is playing with his with his girlfriend. She freeze
Speaker 1: fat freeze time Freeze used to be nice fat time
Speaker 1: and she's like, come on, man, we got this money.
Speaker 1: Come on, she smacked. You know. So now they ag't
Speaker 1: together no more. You know, they're fighting with this man.
Speaker 1: I used to be live man, bringing the hood and there,
Speaker 1: but that that was the best man. It was this
Speaker 1: great leadership, the best, you know. But we appreciate you.
Speaker 1: You trying to make a pit stop knowing, not knowing
Speaker 1: the full length, but you know the kind of the
Speaker 1: way that that that Nelly fuck you over your first run.
Speaker 1: You tried to come funk with us the year after
Speaker 1: we believe, and you know, we were so excited to
Speaker 1: get you, but then kind of seeing Nellie come back
Speaker 1: to being Nellie, and then that's the year I was
Speaker 1: thankful for Nellie. The first year. The second years, when
Speaker 1: my mom died and I didn't sign a long term deal.
Speaker 1: He wanted me to sign a three year deal, and
Speaker 1: I was just here and I can get more money,
Speaker 1: so I took the shorter term deal. So when I
Speaker 1: come back from just the craziness of my mom dying,
Speaker 1: this motherfucker pulls me outside outside of practice and tells
Speaker 1: me I'm glad you didn't take the long term deal.
Speaker 1: Your time is up here. And I'm like, after all
Speaker 1: the ship, all the ship you just saw after my
Speaker 1: mom just died, and he motherfucker' stuck to his word.
Speaker 1: I barely played the rest of the season right, scarily
Speaker 1: played the rest of the season. Bro So, I had
Speaker 1: so much admiration because he really gave me my first
Speaker 1: shot shot to really hoop. And then the following season
Speaker 1: we rolled on me. And I'm just like, damn, so
Speaker 1: I saw we were talking about it before, Like Jack
Speaker 1: has some good memories with him. He allowed Jack to
Speaker 1: do some things, but like your situation, my situation is
Speaker 1: kind of he fucked out like that too. So Nellie
Speaker 1: was like he was good at building, somebody is quick
Speaker 1: to burn it down. He didn't trust he you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no bad way about him. But y'all
Speaker 1: ever been on vacation, like and you're going to a
Speaker 1: certain part of the city, like another country, and it's
Speaker 1: like a bunch of dogs that haven't eating the things
Speaker 1: that you ever noticed. Like if you go like this
Speaker 1: to the dog, the dog, the dog is the starving
Speaker 1: for years and he won't get close to your hand.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, he hungry dog, and he
Speaker 1: won't trust you because probably people are smacking him shop.
Speaker 1: That's how I felt them. All I kept thinking was dog,
Speaker 1: if you knew, like how loyal? You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: I'm calling money? Like what time to go to practice?
Speaker 1: Like I wanted to be a disciple of all of
Speaker 1: these dudes, Like what's I don't even get what's the
Speaker 1: problem here? You know what I'm saying? And then he
Speaker 1: would come apologize, But then there many he apologized, say
Speaker 1: something negative in the paper, you know, because it suck me.
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait a minute, is it me? Is you?
Speaker 1: Then that's when I was like, you know what, everybody
Speaker 1: got their own bag, man, you got some bags? Carry
Speaker 1: your ship over there because I can't get but that
Speaker 1: don't I don't surprise, but I tell you this. I
Speaker 1: didn't necessary like the way I retired, but I appreciated
Speaker 1: y'all man, because all I kept thinking that Philly was man.
Speaker 1: If I was two years younger, playing with used to
Speaker 1: be in my mind like ay, I I can't even
Speaker 1: give you. I can't even give you what I what
Speaker 1: I wanted to give you, And I ain't realized I'm
Speaker 1: averaged the most with him as a teammate. That's stupid,
Speaker 1: because he the best I ever played with. So when
Speaker 1: I got there with y'all and I saw these young boys,
Speaker 1: y'all have just did that to uh the Dallas the
Speaker 1: year before him, Like, yeah, man, I could be here,
Speaker 1: I could be an old man. Yeah I had some
Speaker 1: good time to play a little thing, get a bunch
Speaker 1: of sists, but it ain't work out. But it was,
Speaker 1: you know, it was. It was cool for me talk
Speaker 1: real quick about AI because I don't think we got
Speaker 1: to see an on a day to day basis, how
Speaker 1: little he was, how beat up he was, but still
Speaker 1: how hard he was able to go night and night out,
Speaker 1: and the great person he was. Because that's another misconception,
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, I love that dude. Man, that's nothing
Speaker 1: over the pandemic. But probably two years before I started
Speaker 1: making sure with Cats, I said, I love you, like look,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Yeah, So he's somebody I
Speaker 1: need to do that too, because I don't think the
Speaker 1: world knew what he was taking on his shoulders, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, how he was helping people, um,
Speaker 1: how he was growing, and how he was the coldest
Speaker 1: the codes like they always talked about that practice practice
Speaker 1: comment that was like after his man and past, Like
Speaker 1: how did he get to that joke? Went after my
Speaker 1: man passed, I'm telling you practice don't mean nothing, practice
Speaker 1: practice and then y'all turn to a joke as if
Speaker 1: my man didn't die for that, you know. So the
Speaker 1: fact he just not going the fact he could be
Speaker 1: saying and cold, but again, I've never seen nobody what
Speaker 1: do you wait? One forty if that one forty going
Speaker 1: to the army. I remember we were watching him in
Speaker 1: Milwaukee play me. He was just laughing. I think he
Speaker 1: had like sixty or fifty eight to cool cold. You
Speaker 1: just asked me how I would play in the league today?
Speaker 1: How would he playing the league? Unbelievable. When y'all play
Speaker 1: in the league, you couldn't shoot a guard. Wasn't good,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like you know forty five,
Speaker 1: like now you use the average? Yeah? Average? Playing with him, man,
Speaker 1: playing with him, you know that was That's that's one
Speaker 1: of the highlights of my career, suiting it up with
Speaker 1: him every night, seeing how he just no matter what happened,
Speaker 1: he turned it on hard. He talked a Saturday the
Speaker 1: other I ain't talked to say it's weird ass in
Speaker 1: a minute. That was crazy love that kung fu karate ship.
Speaker 1: What did you stop putting your post career playing together?
Speaker 1: I just fell into it, bro, That's kind of how
Speaker 1: it happened. That's kind of how it happens. So you
Speaker 1: don't want to believe it's over. M I'm out there
Speaker 1: limping looking dumb on the court, fat you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, can't get into shape because your knee won't work.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. You don't want to let
Speaker 1: it go, so, you know, turner to call. I think
Speaker 1: it was good that I was going back from a
Speaker 1: a Turner and called. I knew ESPN it kind of wanted,
Speaker 1: but I didn't know where to fit in anything, and
Speaker 1: it just I thank god they called me because you know, now,
Speaker 1: once I got in there, I was like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is what I want to do. But before then, I really,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, I thought, truthfully, doll, I
Speaker 1: thought I was gonna move someplace like when my town
Speaker 1: is something I ain't never been, and get a big
Speaker 1: phone and just just check out and just check out.
Speaker 1: So I kind of did that happen. Yeah, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: glad that didn't happen. So what what was it? What
Speaker 1: was it like getting in there? Obviously what you know
Speaker 1: at the beginning you were able to work with with
Speaker 1: Charles and Kenny in in um Ernie. What was that
Speaker 1: experience like, because I mean, that's that's the show for
Speaker 1: as as Hoopers, that's the show we all pay attention to.
Speaker 1: So now you went from Hooping right to that show.
Speaker 1: I ain't gonna I haven't been out. You know. They
Speaker 1: say when we retired, we missed the locker room, not
Speaker 1: the game. That's the same thing. I get the locker
Speaker 1: room there. Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's it's it's a
Speaker 1: blessing man, something about just being thankful, like if you
Speaker 1: told me, okay, you can't make the league and you're
Speaker 1: gonna have to work at the train station. But when
Speaker 1: you get forward and you could go work and turn
Speaker 1: up all right, kind of signed up, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. So it's it's cool, man, It's all it is.
Speaker 1: It's about twelve screens like this in the back usually
Speaker 1: Chuck watching uh, Peter Griffin, Yeah, exactly, family guys something.
Speaker 1: We're watching all that, and you keep checking back on
Speaker 1: the games. People making fun of you. You're sitting at
Speaker 1: the table, somebody walked by, smacking the head tip your
Speaker 1: drink over, you get something to eat, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. It's it's just like if yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: like this right now, you know what I mean. It's
Speaker 1: all love, nothing personal. And so that's you know, that's
Speaker 1: that's really what you know. That was the best for
Speaker 1: me being on there. But I think when big fella come,
Speaker 1: you can't. You got a big shock on there. So
Speaker 1: then I understand, Okay, let's take advantage of doing these
Speaker 1: games and things like that. And so you know, once
Speaker 1: I didn't know stack what I wanted to do, but
Speaker 1: when I figured it out, and I try to tell
Speaker 1: a lot of young old players, because young players, I
Speaker 1: didn't try to make you feel guilty as athlete, like
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of players go broke or you
Speaker 1: know whatever. The horror stories are. Get ready for your
Speaker 1: career and now I'm gonna tell you that. But also
Speaker 1: when you get to the end of your career, you'll
Speaker 1: figure it out. I mean, you learned how to play basketball,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. They try to make it
Speaker 1: like basketball is it's a rebel, you know, it isn't
Speaker 1: smart that you don't have to work your way. When
Speaker 1: I got the time, I was a rookie, work my
Speaker 1: way from the bottom, take these licks, do what I
Speaker 1: gotta do, be frustrated and earn my spot. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is so hopefully a lot of young
Speaker 1: players out there just take notes on what they like
Speaker 1: to do. Just just take something what you like to do,
Speaker 1: and hopefully you know your life will give you the
Speaker 1: opportunity to be able to go in those areas. But yes,
Speaker 1: that I didn't know I came from. But that kind
Speaker 1: of ship's inspiring and and I don't think it's something
Speaker 1: Jack and I kind of realized too, obviously, like when
Speaker 1: we saw the transition of you doing like damn okay,
Speaker 1: well's gonna like the T and T And then we
Speaker 1: funk around and get a podcast right around, and it's
Speaker 1: a winning I don't know how to funk, y'all. Hey,
Speaker 1: I love it, Hey, I love it a matter fact,
Speaker 1: I think I want the world show that. Hey, I
Speaker 1: say that to you all too. I was laughing when
Speaker 1: he's said it, because I'm like episode, because we could
Speaker 1: do anything now, Like you talk about the balls and stuff,
Speaker 1: I'm meant my brother was a lawyer and all this
Speaker 1: he had braids. Hey, I made it easier for him
Speaker 1: at work, you know what I'm saying, Like all of this,
Speaker 1: Like I'm telling you that's why I'm stealing your energy now,
Speaker 1: like my young boys gotta show. But what's wanna talk
Speaker 1: to me about from the car now? I ain't even
Speaker 1: gonna call you know what I'm saying. So I love it. Dog,
Speaker 1: They're not gonna steal this joy but being successful because
Speaker 1: when it turns into is protection. Don't just have this?
Speaker 1: Is that? This is that you know? And I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: it's just it's just joyful to know. I didn't know.
Speaker 1: And when I y'all the show, I'm like, what's naming
Speaker 1: that show up? And smoke out? Said hell hanging who
Speaker 1: they so And to the people that believe me, shot
Speaker 1: shot it out because it takes whether it's diversity, whether
Speaker 1: it's getting your dream, whether it's including people you know
Speaker 1: whoever y'all pitched it too, or ever picture to y'all
Speaker 1: and believe that those those in the minds the outside
Speaker 1: the box. But like I said, they other people could
Speaker 1: see us like Okay, they're doing it. You're doing that
Speaker 1: Like there's there, there are options. Eddie Haskell, he used
Speaker 1: to just be sitting back watching, just just sitting back watching.
Speaker 1: You can tell he was soaking up for all that ship.
Speaker 1: I was talking about that on the way here. I
Speaker 1: said that that's just one thing about us. The best
Speaker 1: thing about men and him was we've both been team
Speaker 1: players our whole life, NBA, high school, We've always been
Speaker 1: team players. So with this, it comes from us being
Speaker 1: able to play our role. Let my brother leave, not follow.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, what I feeling like, I
Speaker 1: need to be in front. That's why we win. That's
Speaker 1: the only reason. Because anything he wants for me without
Speaker 1: me being in the building, anything want from himself, excuse me,
Speaker 1: without me being a building, I know he won't for me,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And that's that's that's the nuts.
Speaker 1: Jack came me up and let me know what, Just
Speaker 1: let me know we got to sign a contract. Just
Speaker 1: the black stuff we don't get to see because we
Speaker 1: only see this, that, this, that, this that. But like
Speaker 1: even the fact, like this motherfucker text me a twelve
Speaker 1: last talking about we got to show a twin tomorrow.
Speaker 1: If that's the way it should be right, no, little man,
Speaker 1: don't call my agent. Don't call my agent. Dog like,
Speaker 1: that's the ship. Didn't make me mad at you. Now
Speaker 1: if I don't answer the phone twice, I get it.
Speaker 1: Then you have to. But this is the strength I
Speaker 1: take out of it because I want my son to
Speaker 1: be like, no, we don't hate look at that. Get
Speaker 1: the show with that to your twins, an example for
Speaker 1: my twins. You know what I'm saying, So yeah, man,
Speaker 1: like it's it's just love seeing brothers do their thing
Speaker 1: athlete and activism. You're teaching the online online course. You've
Speaker 1: been on it, and let's say that he'd been on
Speaker 1: it more. But I was gonna say that to say, like,
Speaker 1: I know your mom is proud of that. Talk to
Speaker 1: us about what you're doing with Ed Moore house. She
Speaker 1: probably you know that she ain't give me the stamp yet.
Speaker 1: You know she's still like, yeah, let me see what's next.
Speaker 1: You mean, yeah, man, she uh, it's a blessing. So
Speaker 1: all I do, man, is I try to teach the
Speaker 1: youth today that it's a dope guy like Kappennick and
Speaker 1: what Lebron and them doing, and before them, it was
Speaker 1: Dr carloson and Dr Evers. That's all. That's that's all.
Speaker 1: I just want everybody to know that Will Rudolph she
Speaker 1: was nice and tracked, but she was better in tennis
Speaker 1: and could you imagine that they didn't let her play?
Speaker 1: Like let's you know history right. Lebron to me has
Speaker 1: done some of the most ever, Like I admired him
Speaker 1: off the court, damn the morning on the court. And
Speaker 1: what I want the kids to get is that this
Speaker 1: is where y'all gotta take it from. Don't compare him
Speaker 1: with what Kareem and Jim Brown in them then because
Speaker 1: they didn't have social media and they had one company
Speaker 1: said say something, Well, I'm gonna take all that. You know,
Speaker 1: they didn't have it. So I just wanted to be
Speaker 1: more of an appreciation. That's that's all. It is, just
Speaker 1: a study of protests. Was protests? Was the brothers cause righteous?
Speaker 1: What made them do it? Are they happy they stood
Speaker 1: the way they did? What they do it again? And
Speaker 1: really talking to him like so one class I really
Speaker 1: like is we talked about um kind of fair trade
Speaker 1: and fair trade when you think about it is because
Speaker 1: of Spencer Haywood. Spencer Haywood came out he was poor
Speaker 1: there was no term called hardship. So he came out
Speaker 1: of Mississippi. His mother was picking cotton when he was
Speaker 1: in the league, and so he gets suspended, all this
Speaker 1: other stuff. He takes his court case to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: If he didn't do that, it would have been a code,
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been a kg have been other players. So
Speaker 1: just to let them know, like you look at him
Speaker 1: as a basketball player again, because they try to dump
Speaker 1: down a lot of a lot of things because you're
Speaker 1: an athlete or your sport. And I just want to know.
Speaker 1: I know, I know you think it's about him coming
Speaker 1: out and getting out here early, but you really should
Speaker 1: see that because of what he did, players that came
Speaker 1: out early made thirty billion dollars. So we talked about
Speaker 1: the fear he had. You know, he comeing from Mississippi.
Speaker 1: Can't you know, do a lot of things other people
Speaker 1: could do. And he's gonna take this stand for everybody else,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So I just want us
Speaker 1: to appreciate everybody had to do something to get us
Speaker 1: all to this point. For some people that would be quiet.
Speaker 1: For some people who just study raised hell, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. And so with that, I'm just trying
Speaker 1: to make sure I bring up you know, men and
Speaker 1: when the athletes that have made an impact through protests
Speaker 1: and now you know, we talked about it, you know,
Speaker 1: and I thought it was dope knowing you were doing
Speaker 1: that and then seeing you know, all the ship he
Speaker 1: didn't on the front line. You know, I've kind of
Speaker 1: been in the activism space for him for the years,
Speaker 1: but to see you know, him be a part of,
Speaker 1: tellingly the biggest protests in the history of the you
Speaker 1: know what I mean that we've ever seen. No, I
Speaker 1: don't think you understanding because you know he's still in it.
Speaker 1: He can't steal in it, you know, I mean, but
Speaker 1: to be able to see that in it, and it
Speaker 1: just goes to show like it's we're supposed to be
Speaker 1: dumb athletes, I mean, but yet we're sparking like Tupacs
Speaker 1: that I might not change the world, but I guarantee
Speaker 1: I'll spark the mind that doesn't. That's our job to
Speaker 1: spark these minds. And I think that what we've been
Speaker 1: able to do off the court, you know, is special.
Speaker 1: You know. Accomplishing to be in the NBA, is you
Speaker 1: have a better chance to get instruct by lightning, and
Speaker 1: we all enjoyed that. But I'm saying, the impact we're
Speaker 1: able to make post career, to me is what's the
Speaker 1: most important. That's why we're not see and he hates
Speaker 1: you get our laugh because I know, I know your
Speaker 1: mom built for it. I don't even care, like they
Speaker 1: don't even know, like this this is a part of
Speaker 1: y'all see but you don't know where it comes from
Speaker 1: it When I say you stack, I don't know you
Speaker 1: as well, but I and following you and I know
Speaker 1: you you're doing some things and I know you know
Speaker 1: what you're doing, but when God using you, you don't know.
Speaker 1: You don't know what you're doing. You don't You're just
Speaker 1: going strong. You're strong, and that's all I need you
Speaker 1: to keep doing because from day one, the way you've
Speaker 1: handled this, I mean, you've inspired people that don't know
Speaker 1: nothing about who You made people come to me and
Speaker 1: hold me more accountable. You know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: that's that's the way I think it happens in the
Speaker 1: largest in my lifetime that I can think, especially because
Speaker 1: it is and it's gonna have a long lasting effect.
Speaker 1: And seeing you and his daughter or understanding what it's
Speaker 1: gonna do to someone thirty years later. Think about the
Speaker 1: documentary when they have to tell this story thirty fifty,
Speaker 1: a hundred years later of of what happened to make
Speaker 1: basketball stop? You know what I mean? So I thank you, dog,
Speaker 1: because because I know it getting lonely a time. I
Speaker 1: know you've got people around you, and I know all that.
Speaker 1: But I thank you, dog, and you're supposed to your
Speaker 1: bill for you. I appreciate it. And it goes back
Speaker 1: to what you said, like I don't know what I'm doing,
Speaker 1: but like you said, you're teaching people before us. I
Speaker 1: got to read no, Marcus Garbin, Marcus Garbin. I fell
Speaker 1: in love with him because a lot of the things
Speaker 1: that I think about, I'm getting answers from him on
Speaker 1: what he did and how to do it, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Like like you said, every everything that
Speaker 1: we're doing or try to go, we try to reach
Speaker 1: somebody's done it before. But but we need to understand
Speaker 1: what they did so we can continue to go forward
Speaker 1: and build off what they did, not just be obsolutely
Speaker 1: I'll put aside what they did because it's not it's
Speaker 1: not today, but it still matters because it's still relevant
Speaker 1: and people don't think. I said the other day Sean
Speaker 1: Connery was seventy six. He's two years old than wal
Speaker 1: Luther King. So when Luke King was King that killed.
Speaker 1: That wasn't that long ago. But you gotta make people
Speaker 1: understand stuff like that. Still in this position, keeping he's
Speaker 1: definitely twenty twenty one NBA Hall of Fame finalists. What
Speaker 1: is that? I want to read the list to you
Speaker 1: real quick before you tell me what it means. Your coach,
Speaker 1: Rick Adam and Paul Pierce, Chris Bosh, Michael Cooper, Ben Wallace,
Speaker 1: You're Loanda Griffin, Lauren Jackson, Tim Hardaway, Bill Russell as
Speaker 1: a coach. What does what does that mean? You know,
Speaker 1: coming from the inner city Detroit and in your journey,
Speaker 1: the ups, the downs, the in between. To me, it's
Speaker 1: about time. But when you hear it, what does it
Speaker 1: mean to you? Man? It was it was just me wow.
Speaker 1: You know, you know in my mind, you know, you
Speaker 1: feel like, okay, I should or all that I played
Speaker 1: against this guy. But in your mind you're just like, damn,
Speaker 1: I can't even believe it's you. You dreaming win championships,
Speaker 1: to shoot commercial you know, I dream to make the
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. You know what I'm saying. So it
Speaker 1: would uh man, that would that would that would definitely
Speaker 1: be honored. Man, that would definitely. It was dope to
Speaker 1: us because we did a live show at All Star
Speaker 1: last year and KG gets to talking and you were
Speaker 1: one of one of his main people. He looked up
Speaker 1: to you know what I mean and like to say,
Speaker 1: you don't really like you just told Jack, you don't
Speaker 1: realize what it is while you're in it, and once
Speaker 1: you kind of take a step back and you hear
Speaker 1: someone like you know, KG say you know I should
Speaker 1: I'm out of my game at the Sea where in
Speaker 1: me so much because he was my favorite NBA player
Speaker 1: during my time and you know me, so fuck you.
Speaker 1: I ain't working out right. It was different back there now.
Speaker 1: I saw him in Turning. I saw that T and
Speaker 1: T the first time after I retired from my game,
Speaker 1: A hug like, man, we're gonna hang out now, and
Speaker 1: I've been waiting. I've been wanting to hang out with
Speaker 1: you dog. You know what I'm saying, And that's yeah.
Speaker 1: So when you tell me that and knowing that you
Speaker 1: know that's just yeah, that's Dompe. But Uh, that's that's
Speaker 1: great when your favorites tell you that's real. Bit alright, man,
Speaker 1: quick hitters. Last five questions. First thing to come to mind,
Speaker 1: answer favorite teammate. Damn, that's how I know right here
Speaker 1: we had a man, we had we was I'm excited
Speaker 1: to be hard, but it's hard. And I don't just
Speaker 1: say because it's punk here, but it's hard not to
Speaker 1: be his friend, bro, because you know, you got somebody
Speaker 1: down with you when you're chilling and we just need
Speaker 1: to be on the bull of ship. Bro, what's up?
Speaker 1: I wish you're right? You're right. It was crazy that
Speaker 1: when I played with him, he was a young rider,
Speaker 1: so he was wilder and more cautious, you know. Same.
Speaker 1: You gotta understand, like I think that's for some people,
Speaker 1: funk up. I understand. I'm trying to make the league.
Speaker 1: I'm around, You're traveling with all stars in future Hall
Speaker 1: of Famer, so I can't do all. You can't do this.
Speaker 1: You don't get away with this. You can come and
Speaker 1: then to see him grow because the whole time, you know,
Speaker 1: you just know, Like I don't know if he was
Speaker 1: gonna coach or something, but I know I know how
Speaker 1: you'd be working. You know what I'm saying. I just
Speaker 1: know your mind was raising all the time. And you're right, man,
Speaker 1: like getting traded with him, letting him see me and
Speaker 1: my worst and seeing him and his worst. I remember
Speaker 1: when he got the tattoo. Believe because and it was
Speaker 1: because I was on my way. I had to believe
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So, yeah, man, he's you're You're a
Speaker 1: good dude. It's good too. It's good to have people
Speaker 1: like that means a lot. Uh toughest matchup KG defensively
Speaker 1: on me, offensively to stop tim or she if he
Speaker 1: was if she was gonna come at you all game,
Speaker 1: she she would take his foot off the gas because
Speaker 1: it wasn't about scoring him. It really wasn't about scoring
Speaker 1: the sheet. It really wasn't. That's so great. He might
Speaker 1: be the only player I've ever played with it wasn't
Speaker 1: about It wasn't about scoring. He they're talking about defense,
Speaker 1: and you know what I mean. But she, yeah, four guys,
Speaker 1: you gotta pick four guys. You're going to the black Top,
Speaker 1: not the NBA. You're gonna play on the black top
Speaker 1: in Detroit bottom bring it with you, be your homeboys.
Speaker 1: He could be four NBA players. He could be Christie
Speaker 1: because I need him. He gonna be the only one
Speaker 1: to play defense me. I can still lock him up
Speaker 1: right now, cam Coason, this is all up and smoke. Man,
Speaker 1: I gotta give us a shout out there as my
Speaker 1: point guard. Man, y'apom my two guards. I'm gonna go.
Speaker 1: Let me see yap my two guards only come down.
Speaker 1: None of these names, but yeah, Omar and Tonio Ragling
Speaker 1: and Quincy Bones. That's my phone left to the super friends.
Speaker 1: Maybe you have to go to the park. But man,
Speaker 1: I mean that was that. That was your guy. But
Speaker 1: to be able, like I said, to be able to
Speaker 1: move with this dude, and he was at the level
Speaker 1: I was just beginning to see everything he went through.
Speaker 1: But then to see keV too, like his biggest, biggest,
Speaker 1: biggest fucking supporter. You can ever imagine good bad in
Speaker 1: between Keva's there. But we had so much fun with
Speaker 1: him too, Like it was tough and philly, but we
Speaker 1: had a lot of fun. It was tough man. We
Speaker 1: would play mad Man for this and I had this
Speaker 1: naked down eight billion yeah, running back and then we
Speaker 1: started doing physical challenge that like you had to drink
Speaker 1: a whole bottle of in one drink. Or keV had
Speaker 1: to run up and down the hallway in our hotel,
Speaker 1: in our little building, butt naked with his socks a.
Speaker 1: So this nig is running down suicide. Who feeling that ship?
Speaker 1: I thought you feel it? Did? I remember? We made
Speaker 1: we made do drink a bucket of water. You had
Speaker 1: to go to the hospital. You had drink a bucket
Speaker 1: of water. And five They used to be on the
Speaker 1: challenge like it was no other No, yeah, thank god,
Speaker 1: there's no And there wasn't really too many cameras around
Speaker 1: back then because it was some ship. Yeah, uh five
Speaker 1: dinner guests that are alive. I'm gonna go Cicily Tyson,
Speaker 1: just because rutually on my mind with the book, we
Speaker 1: haven't heard her. I'm gonna go, uh wow, I knew you.
Speaker 1: I knew you was gonna like this question. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go like three great grandfathers, like somebody in my family,
Speaker 1: like we don't you know somebody that went through it
Speaker 1: all that could tell me, yeah, we're here, like a
Speaker 1: great great great great deep to your dad went through
Speaker 1: just that that far removed to get a great grandfather? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what did they go through. Um, yeah, it's hard because
Speaker 1: you don't want to be too corny. Or two you
Speaker 1: know those two you bring Bob Molly in nice. We
Speaker 1: need somebody with music. I'm gonna say those three. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go with your boy, Um, Marcus Garvey because I
Speaker 1: think they erased his history more than anyone else, because
Speaker 1: we don't even talk about until recently he had the
Speaker 1: largest parade out of New York. But just think about that.
Speaker 1: Then the cruise ship is gonna take people back, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean I would love to talk to him and
Speaker 1: then uh started his own currency too, Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: then then back then uh. And I'm gonna say just
Speaker 1: christ m nice. Hey, So go on, all right, last
Speaker 1: question and their answer you have to help us with
Speaker 1: their answer. Who you want to see on this show?
Speaker 1: On all the Smokes Dope, y'all have Tyson on it? No,
Speaker 1: we need him, we need it, and we need to
Speaker 1: go on his show too, because he burned. Let me
Speaker 1: tell you something heavy heavy, he burns it. He Uh.
Speaker 1: He want the smartest men I've ever met. You know
Speaker 1: why I want to talk to him because what I'm
Speaker 1: similar with him like and I ain't knocking people out here.
Speaker 1: But I do have nice with mine. But that ain't
Speaker 1: what we're saying is he weighs emotions on his sleep,
Speaker 1: like you know how I cry all the time, Like
Speaker 1: he'll do it right. And that's how I am. The
Speaker 1: ones that don't, just the ones that don't cry, just
Speaker 1: don't go places where they cry, Like I can't walk
Speaker 1: in the Church of our cry. Like it's it's the same.
Speaker 1: He's just Yeah, it's a different bravery. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: different And the number one ruled up and fighting. You
Speaker 1: never fight. You never fight somebody that's crying before the
Speaker 1: fight start. Yeah, that's that's how McCall knocked out Lenox
Speaker 1: Lewis or so you know. So. But I want you
Speaker 1: to have Tyson man because I'm in d C. It's
Speaker 1: a good story and uh, I'm in d C and
Speaker 1: this it's just it's terrible. It's a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: stories and stays and paper things going on. This is
Speaker 1: Mike Tyson dog on everything I love. I have a
Speaker 1: security camera out there and a friend of Oza Doria
Speaker 1: is bringing Mike to the crib. He's the champ. This
Speaker 1: this is when he suspended four no no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Ninety seven he's suspended and I'm in d
Speaker 1: c so in nineties seven, I think, and I'm in
Speaker 1: the crib and I'm going through it and Tyson knocking
Speaker 1: on my door, ringing the bell. I don't answer. You know,
Speaker 1: I come out. Twenty minutes later, he knocking on the door.
Speaker 1: He didn't sit down on the porch. Then he started
Speaker 1: talking like, I know you in there. I know you
Speaker 1: in there. You know what I'm saying. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: avoid it. You know what I mean. He's my favorite
Speaker 1: fighter in the world. But what am I gonna talk
Speaker 1: to you about right now? You don't even know me
Speaker 1: that right coming to the basement. Man, I keep a
Speaker 1: journal and I just wrote down when the smartest man
Speaker 1: I haven't met, I need this, And it was something like, man,
Speaker 1: I care about what people saying about you. He's like,
Speaker 1: I run this hill every day. He's like, the hill
Speaker 1: will never beat me. In my life. The hill doesn't move,
Speaker 1: but he can't beat me. You know, the hill don't
Speaker 1: even want to attack me. But the hill will never
Speaker 1: beat me. Whatever I put in my mind won't beat me,
Speaker 1: won't beat me, just like the hill can't beat you
Speaker 1: with nothing you do, you ain't gotta go to the hill,
Speaker 1: but in your mind, if you he'll beat you. And
Speaker 1: even just talking about man, just forgiving yourself hard work,
Speaker 1: keeping that grime in you and and understanding that I
Speaker 1: couldn't things in different places, but just not letting them
Speaker 1: overcome each other. And at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm like, why did you come over here?
Speaker 1: What is He was like, I just wanted to talk
Speaker 1: to you brother when he left. Remember, man hunted ground
Speaker 1: ever since. But I never asked for that, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. That's why with us, I know y'all do.
Speaker 1: That's why though I make sure i'd calling young boy.
Speaker 1: I don't even want to know what's going on butro
Speaker 1: but I know I know something. If they win today,
Speaker 1: you are hole, you know what I mean. I knew
Speaker 1: if you start being better, you a home, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So so I just like encouraging dudes
Speaker 1: because I've had people do that to me. Dog, it
Speaker 1: could be somebody at the gas station, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, we love y'all. Keep keep doing what
Speaker 1: you're doing, you know what I'm saying. I appreciate that,
Speaker 1: and I don't pay attention to the but they don't
Speaker 1: pay attention to the hey, so it's not like I
Speaker 1: listened to everything. I choose to take in man and
Speaker 1: him doing that for me at that time it was crazy.
Speaker 1: And then I went there to visit him when he
Speaker 1: was in jail for where he went through and all that,
Speaker 1: and I went so anyway, when I when I look
Speaker 1: at him and the jewels he dropped, because most people
Speaker 1: can drop book jewels. When you drop jewels on something
Speaker 1: in life that's a fact or or just how you're
Speaker 1: gonna get through it. Those two people I like being
Speaker 1: around people have been through something that's gonna help my
Speaker 1: soul out. And he's one of the people. Y'all gotta
Speaker 1: talk to him and make him standing right there and
Speaker 1: throw them punches at you like I'm I'm hearing six
Speaker 1: intes of punches. He started getting mad. He's like yeah,
Speaker 1: because you know when the world is gets He's like
Speaker 1: he's just doing and and I'm right hearing. I'm speaking
Speaker 1: if he let one slip him, Dad thinking I'm with
Speaker 1: the champ right now. You know what I mean? All
Speaker 1: these emotions, y'all, y'alling, y'alling, Mike, you gotta have an
Speaker 1: audience for that because I'm being in the front row. Now,
Speaker 1: last question, I forgot something, um, he and I have
Speaker 1: been advocating for. You were o G. You have a
Speaker 1: hundred million dollar cannabis fund right now you might speaking
Speaker 1: on that. Well, first of all, shout out to like
Speaker 1: uh John Sally, Shout out to Al Harrington, Shout out
Speaker 1: to all the brothers just been in this business, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, because it's not me versus anybody.
Speaker 1: Everybody shout out to you the Cliff, Yeah yeah, Cliff,
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Cliff. That's why he was in shape for
Speaker 1: so long he was you know. Um, So with this,
Speaker 1: I have a partner Jason Wild. He has a big
Speaker 1: imprint in cannabis community. So what really I wanted to
Speaker 1: do While I have my own brand is called Players
Speaker 1: Only and we have all this other great stuff, I
Speaker 1: wanted to help other people come into the business this
Speaker 1: and not just like with the cultivation cultivations costs like
Speaker 1: eight millions of you like, it ain't about that. It's
Speaker 1: about Hunt told a friend of mine day heard the
Speaker 1: girl should get together and start a bud tending uh
Speaker 1: service where you go to parties and blood. I don't know,
Speaker 1: y'all smart enough to figure it out. But let's make
Speaker 1: the business plan and this doing. How about other people
Speaker 1: that have been in the business so long, delivery bakeryes, Like, realistically,
Speaker 1: what do you want to do? What are you really
Speaker 1: to work for? What's your business plan? And we got
Speaker 1: you because we can use the infrastructure of all the
Speaker 1: large companies that we have, because a lot of times
Speaker 1: you get cold money like here you go stack, open
Speaker 1: up a rusturant something, but no one says, no, you
Speaker 1: need to do this, and just the mistake I ran into.
Speaker 1: So my thing is not to just create you know, cultivations,
Speaker 1: but everybody on every single line, to let there be
Speaker 1: a place for information. Let there be a place too long,
Speaker 1: Let there be a place to help. I mean, we're
Speaker 1: gonna do something in sacrament We're gonna do stuff with
Speaker 1: other things that you're in the community and if you
Speaker 1: need it, I'm with you anything in the community. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, we're just trying to I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: make money and help people. Man. Well, I mean it's dope,
Speaker 1: and I don't like you said, when you're in it,
Speaker 1: you don't really know. But the fact that you know
Speaker 1: a former NBA great has a hundred million dollar cannabis
Speaker 1: fund geared towards people to look like us, to help
Speaker 1: us get in this space because this space was obviously
Speaker 1: we were the most affected by it, but we're less
Speaker 1: than five percent representation in the space. So to have
Speaker 1: someone like you and like you said, cold money is
Speaker 1: most of the time wasted money, Like you're allowing infrastructure
Speaker 1: to where you know, I'm opening my facilities. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm opening my you know, we're giving you education, We're
Speaker 1: giving you a lot more than just handing you money,
Speaker 1: like we really want to see you in and and
Speaker 1: that's rare. And two people out there, I mean I
Speaker 1: called you or you called me the week before. We
Speaker 1: were talking and you mentioned something about of fun and
Speaker 1: I announced, that's why you got to keep people around,
Speaker 1: just that energy, you know. And we're gonna do a
Speaker 1: lot of work together. I mean, I want to work
Speaker 1: with other people, especially people I know that love their community.
Speaker 1: Else when I go back to Sack with or anybody
Speaker 1: with you or Texas because you know, one boy, Ray
Speaker 1: Jackson said you have to burn it down out there
Speaker 1: when you get it, you know what I mean. So yeah,
Speaker 1: and I just, uh, I think now is that we've
Speaker 1: made a lot of connections. We've let people see our
Speaker 1: work ethic and they could trust our work ethic. Like
Speaker 1: if y'all played in the league and can shoot free
Speaker 1: throws in front of thousands of people, do this. This
Speaker 1: ain't gonna be nothing for y'all. Right, you're gonna find
Speaker 1: who how to do it and learning right. And I'm
Speaker 1: just glad I have business partners that believe in me,
Speaker 1: because I'm about to do that in real estate. I'm
Speaker 1: about to do that other things because I just put
Speaker 1: it like this. I told one of my white partners,
Speaker 1: this ain't no um giveaway. Don't make it like it's
Speaker 1: no welfare because people work hard like my father. This
Speaker 1: ain't no fake stat This is unmind ground that y'all
Speaker 1: don't want to go to. Y're all scared to go
Speaker 1: to Steven Jackson neighborhood. So this we're digging in the
Speaker 1: ground there. You're scared to go there, and I'm in
Speaker 1: them the excavator. We got it. I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: afraid of my people, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 1: that's all it is. We're giving access to those that
Speaker 1: don't get it. That's all We're not got a nothing.
Speaker 1: God got them. They got themselves. That are hard workers.
Speaker 1: We're just saying, anybody want to come in this way,
Speaker 1: work hard, you got it, so you know. So I'm
Speaker 1: glad my partners understand that. Last question cannabis, cannabis and sports,
Speaker 1: the thoughts on it. It looks like UM hockey was
Speaker 1: first Major League baseball in the NFL, and the NBA
Speaker 1: is finally come around. Like I said, we've advocated for
Speaker 1: a long time. You know, I did a lot of
Speaker 1: dodging hoops to be able to do it while we played,
Speaker 1: and to find out that there's finally medical research backing
Speaker 1: up the reasons why we felt we needed it at
Speaker 1: that time. What is your thought, you know, being removed
Speaker 1: from the sport now but kind of finally seen them
Speaker 1: turn the corner from that aspect. Yeah, so I got
Speaker 1: suspended with twelve games or something. I think lost like
Speaker 1: a million or a couple because, uh after I had
Speaker 1: micro fracture surgery. No one had ever come back from it,
Speaker 1: and the doctors and Kylie was like, man, the stomach kurt,
Speaker 1: you got ulcers, you know, and you know you need
Speaker 1: to try this oil. You need to do this. So
Speaker 1: at that time, I did what I did and wrote
Speaker 1: the league a letter like you know you're not gonna
Speaker 1: have it. Beat it. I'm just sitting around here because
Speaker 1: I'm tired and running from man and this is what
Speaker 1: it is, my leg and so I think that they
Speaker 1: got to take I think the world is always laid
Speaker 1: on culture. Sports always laid on culture. Culture has been
Speaker 1: ahead of it, you know what I mean. Instead of
Speaker 1: not looking at it that wow, Matt smoking one after
Speaker 1: the game? You know. I talked to doctors and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Matt is providing itself. Sleep management instead of Matt blowing
Speaker 1: one after the game is okay, that's moved management, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. We really are so used to
Speaker 1: a lifestyle that is not normal that we don't give
Speaker 1: ourselves the love that we should. Like you think it's
Speaker 1: normal to go to get on the plane and to
Speaker 1: get to the spot of five in the morning, stay
Speaker 1: open a couple of hours, go to sleep in one hour,
Speaker 1: and then go to practice. That's what ain't real, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? And so yeah, a lot of it.
Speaker 1: You can't harm yourself if you don't do things right.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it is a true thing
Speaker 1: of self medication, and this has been around for thousands years,
Speaker 1: so they have to catch up and they usually will
Speaker 1: catch up when they figure out how they can't get
Speaker 1: their money out of it, not the yes, how they
Speaker 1: contacting and figured out well, man, Chris, We appreciate you man.
Speaker 1: I've been tracking you down for a long time. We
Speaker 1: finally got you here. Thank you for your time. Man.
Speaker 1: That's a wrap special guest Chris, where we appreciate your time.
Speaker 1: You can catch us on Showtime Basketball, YouTube and I
Speaker 1: Heart Platform Black Effects see how next week. This is
Speaker 1: all a Smoke A production of The Black Effect and
Speaker 1: Our Heart Radio in partnership with Showtime