1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Brusso from Bloomberg Radio. 2 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 1: Elon Musk is the chief twit and that's about all 3 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: we definitely know about his takeover of Twitter. Musk took 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 1: on his new role with a gag, walking into the 5 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: company San Francisco headquarters holding a sink, then taking some 6 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: serious action, firing most of the leadership, the CEO, the CFO, 7 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: and the general council, and taking the time to tweet 8 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: a baseless conspiracy theory about the attack on Paul Pelosi 9 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: which has since been deleted. All his actions leaving more 10 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,159 Speaker 1: questions than answers, and taking the time to tweet a 11 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: baseless conspiracy theory. Is this a done, done deal? Is 12 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 1: that there are no turning back? This is it? He 13 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: owns Twitter? Oh, this is a done deal all right. 14 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: One of the things that is absolutely the case when 15 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: you've got a public company that gets bought out, once 16 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: those shareholders get paid aid, which they have, there's kind 17 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: of no way to get the toothpaste back in the tube. 18 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: So you know that some other kinds of deals, maybe 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: with a private company, there there might be ways to 20 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: have some remedy or maybe even reversing the thing afterwards. 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: But this thing is absolutely a done deal. That doesn't 22 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: mean it's going to be free from controversy over the 23 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: next few weeks two months, But there's no way to 24 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: put this toothpaste back in the tube. It seems like 25 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: he's approaching this in a rather chaotic way. Yeah, I mean, 26 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: you've got a figure that it's sort of ironic that 27 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: someone who owns a spaceship company seems to be building 28 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: this spaceship as he's flying it. And it just has 29 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: not been a coherent plan that he laid out ahead 30 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: of time at the time that he signed up this deal, 31 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: certainly not during the summer because he was essentially trying 32 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: to sabotage the deal, so he didn't really have a plan. 33 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: And then finally, when you know, it became pretty apparent 34 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: that he was going to have to come back and 35 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: close the deal on the original terms, you know, he 36 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: started kind of reson erecting a couple of the I 37 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: don't know, sort of embryonic thoughts that he had, but 38 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: no one really knew knew exactly what his plans were. 39 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: And I'm not really even sure Mr Musk had a 40 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: complete idea of what the plans were and that creates 41 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: a big problem, particularly when you're taking over a company 42 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: that has thousands of employees, has an ongoing business, and 43 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: is looking to the new leader for a transition plan. 44 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: The transition plan thus far has seemed a little bit chaotic, 45 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: as has Mr Musk's own comportment on the platform. You know, 46 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: on on the one hand, acknowledging that you know, he 47 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: doesn't want the company to turn into a free for 48 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: all healthscape right on postings, but on the other hand, 49 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,239 Speaker 1: retweeting a you know, completely non credible source that had 50 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: been debunked in the past about you know what appears 51 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: to be a completely unsubstantiated story on Mr Pelosi's unfortunate attack. 52 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: So I think it's given a lot of people whiplash 53 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: not knowing exactly what to expect. And that's not just 54 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 1: you know, who are sort of the public watching this, 55 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: and not just the employees at Twitter. Clearly they're experiencing it. 56 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: But you know, you've got to figure also, if you're 57 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: one of the people that lent money into this deal, 58 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,519 Speaker 1: one of the banks to lend money in these deals, 59 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 1: or you know, one of the folks who has invested 60 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: alongside Mr Musk, do you kind of have to wonder 61 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: exactly how he's going to pull this rabbit out of 62 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: the hat. Thus far, albeit only on seventy two hours 63 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:31,239 Speaker 1: worth of records, things don't look all that under control. Obviously, 64 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: he tweeted he is the chief twit is he going 65 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: to be the CEO? Is that clear? Is he going 66 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: to run the company? At present? That appears to be 67 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: exactly the case. There's a larger issue of, uh, you know, 68 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: being a CEO of a bunch of different companies that 69 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: can at the very least be a draw on your attention. 70 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: And so I think this has always been a big 71 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: concern that Tesla and SpaceX about whether Mr Musk's attention 72 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: is appropriately to wound to those companies, you know, Twitter, 73 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: quite frankly to you know, undertake this transition at this 74 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: latest stage, I don't see how he can avoid putting 75 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: a lot of his attention into this company right now. 76 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: At some point, probably will make sense for him to 77 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: have a CEO that he can delegate a lot of 78 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: power to. But you know, even if he found that 79 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: CEO today, he'd probably be sort of a person behind 80 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: the curtain and a lot of those calls anyway, So 81 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: functionally I don't see a way to avoid him acting 82 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: as CEO at least over the next couple of months 83 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 1: to put in place whatever plan that has not fully 84 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: been disclosed yet that he has for you know, turning 85 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: this company into more of a revenue positive company, which 86 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: he's going to have to do even more urgently than 87 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: the previous board did, because this is a company that 88 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: has a lot more debt now that it has to service. 89 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: As you mentioned, he said that he doesn't want it 90 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: to become a free for all hell scape, but he 91 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: paints himself as a free speech absolutist. I'm not sure 92 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: that that's necessarily the case, but does it seem inevitable 93 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: that he's going to loosen content moderation. Well, it certainly 94 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: seems that he has represented himself as someone who is 95 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: not going to be as mealy mouthed or sensitive about 96 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: content moderation as were his precursors at Twitter. On the 97 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: other side of the coin, however, he's never run a 98 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: social media platform, and you know, I think we sort 99 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: of saw Twitter get to where it got largely by 100 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: dint of a theories of very very public problems and 101 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:42,359 Speaker 1: controversies involving incendiary content being posted on the site, and 102 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: so you know, it's conceivable that he's going to march 103 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: in saying I'm a free speech absolutist and then start 104 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: taking off various exceptions to free speech absolutism and end 105 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: up pretty much in the same position that the Twitter 106 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: board was on content moderation before he got there. Now 107 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: that remains to be seen. My guesses for optics alone, 108 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to put exactly into place what what 109 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: Twitter had before he was there. But you know, he's 110 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: already gotten a fairly strong message across the bow from 111 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: advertisers that unless he makes sure that the most incendiary 112 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: type of content stays off the platform, they're going to 113 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 1: pull the plug. And you know, quite frankly, that's currently 114 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: the most lucrative source of revenue that Twitter has. You know, 115 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: it may be able to pivot to various types of 116 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: licensing fees and user fees and membership fees, but that's 117 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: not where they are right now. Most of their money 118 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: comes in from advertisers, and those advertisers, I think are 119 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: one of these constituencies sitting on the sideline trying to 120 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: figure out whether he's actually going to be able to 121 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: put a body around this rocket before it makes it 122 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: into space. His taking the company private. How does that 123 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: affect regulation of Twitter. Well, remember, just about any other 124 00:06:54,279 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: piece of regulation that would be present for a large 125 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: communications platform would still applied to to Twitter. The thing 126 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: that it takes it out of is the purview of 127 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: the SEC to require mandated periodic disclosures of its financial conditions, 128 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: its plans, its strategies, and so forth. And so a 129 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: lot of times when companies are taking private, part of 130 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: the reason they're taking private is that they want to 131 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: you know, they want to adjust those strategies, they want 132 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: to adjust those financial metrics in ways that aren't going 133 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: to be patently observable for everyone, including their own competitors. 134 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: So that's going to be you know, a significant part 135 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: of Twitter falling off the radar screen. But that doesn't 136 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: mean that other regulators, state regulators, federal regulators, the SEC, 137 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: for example, wouldn't necessarily have some ability to oversee what's 138 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: happening on the platform. It's just that these mandatory disclosure 139 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: requirements and you know, various types of of other securities 140 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: regulations are now no longer going to apply to Twitter 141 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: because it's not a publicly traded company, the EU is 142 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: going to have the Digital Services Act, and an EU 143 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: commissioner tweeted in Europe, the bird will fly by our rules. 144 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: Because Elon Muska twittered the bird is free, the Twitter bird. 145 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: Um fair warning to him that Twitter in Europe is 146 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: going to be different. Yeah, you know, free as a 147 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: relative term. And I guess on some level of the 148 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: EU has been doing a little version of flipping the 149 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: bird as as it were, and so so, you know, 150 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: I think it's a reminder that just because you're a 151 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: privately traded company does not mean that the other elements 152 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: of state regulation don't apply to you, particularly when it 153 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:38,079 Speaker 1: pertains to a communication for him, and particularly in venues 154 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: like the European Union that you know, don't have constitutional 155 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: restrictions on impairments of free speech. Right. The commitment in 156 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 1: the US, to the extent that there there is one 157 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: towards free speech is also constitutionalized here, and so that 158 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: kind of gives a little bit longer of a leash 159 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: to someone who is a self proclaimed absolutist when it 160 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: comes to issues regarding free speech, not so much in Europe. 161 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: And so to the extent that Mr Musk aspires for 162 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: this to be a global platform, which he clearly does, 163 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: and which it clearly is already fumbing his nose that 164 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: these other forms of content regulation would be a version 165 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 1: of stepping, you know, kind of on a different type 166 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: of land mine than one that he's become used to 167 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: it at some of these other companies. One thing he's 168 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: done is that he's going to actually, with an idea 169 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: from Facebook, Twitter is going to get a content moderation council. 170 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: Has it really done anything in Facebook? I think that's arguable, 171 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: where whether it's done anything or not, it's certainly has 172 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: has created for Facebook the optics that they want to 173 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: you know, call in the you know, quote unquote experts 174 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 1: as to what constitutes reasonable and permissible content restriction. And 175 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: there's another question about, you know, who's gonna be on 176 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: that committee. Are they going to have any real power 177 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: to the extent that he decides to ignore them, Do 178 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: they have any recourse themselves? How does that dovetail uh, 179 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: you know, proclamation that the site is going to be, 180 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: you know, more of a free speech absolutist sort of site. 181 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: I think a lot of those things remain to be seen, 182 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: and it's it's certainly conceivable given what he's disclosed already 183 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: that Yeah, he'll he'll set up a panel and they 184 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: will meet periodically with you know, danishes and pretty good 185 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: coffee to discuss various types of phenomena, will issue reports 186 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: on extremely high quality carbon fiber paper that will then 187 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,439 Speaker 1: you know, basically you know, be ignored. So we'll see 188 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: how that plays out. I think it's really, you know, 189 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: an overture to try to signal to outsiders, and it's 190 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 1: a sensible one to say, Look, we are going to 191 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: try to be self aware about what happens with our 192 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: content moderation policies, and I'm not going to just be 193 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: making calls on the fly. I'm going to have this 194 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: council of sage advisers to advise me. But you know, 195 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: look the proofs in the pudding, and we'll have to 196 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: see what that council looks like, how it's staffed, and 197 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: what real authority has given. And none of that has 198 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: been made clear to anyone as far as I know. 199 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: I think what a lot of people are concerned about, 200 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: at least on the left, is the return of for example, 201 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, musks made any decisions. I know that Kanye 202 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: West YEA was permitted back on the side, But then 203 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: Musk said that was a decision that was made before 204 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: he took control. So have any decisions been made about 205 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: whether Trump is back well, I think the that's still unclear. 206 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: And for the record, Yea was actually only had been 207 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: in a restricted zone in his account, It wasn't completely 208 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: kicked off the site, and it had all of this 209 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: action had happened before Mr Musk closed the deal. Whether 210 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 1: Mr Trump is allowed back onto the side or not 211 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 1: is I think it's going to be a tough call. 212 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 1: On the one hand, you know, to the extent that 213 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,599 Speaker 1: Musk himself says this is a site that's going to 214 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: be committed to free speech in an open marketplace of ideas, 215 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: it's hard to, you know, to say that and then 216 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: at the same time say we're gonna maintaining this ban 217 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 1: against the former president of the United States. On the 218 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: other hand, there's a reason that Donald Trump got kicked 219 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: off Twitter, and that's for posting what appeared to be 220 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: fallacious and incendiary content on on Twitter and doing it repeatedly. 221 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: And so there's a kind of attention that I think 222 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: has probably presented itself, if it hasn't already, it will 223 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: soon that you know, the social media space already has 224 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 1: been divided. Right when Mr Trump got kicked off Twitter, 225 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: he end up creating his own social media platform that 226 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: he is now a substantial owner of and probably wants 227 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: to attract more of an audience too. So, you know, Parlor, 228 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: which you know, Kanye Yette West has said he wants 229 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: to purchase. Parlor is another sort of right leaning social 230 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: media platforms. So the space itself had already begun to 231 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: fracture along ideological lines, and it's conceivable that trying to 232 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: pull back in and already fractured right wing that you know, 233 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: some of still on Twitter, some are not, is going 234 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: to cause wide scale ild affections on the other side 235 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: of the of the ideological spectrum that's right now, a 236 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: relatively loyal audience might even be willing to pay money 237 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: to stay on the site, but not to the extent 238 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: that the site ends up, you know, starting to become 239 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: a marketplace that that particular group of sort of more 240 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: left leaning maybe some centrist folks finds objectionable. They can 241 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 1: you know, pretty easily decide that they're going to jump 242 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: off and onto something else. They do give up something Obviously, 243 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: there are you know, a lot of people who are 244 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: on Twitter have spent years trying to cultivate a following, 245 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: and that type of a network externality is a hard 246 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 1: thing to replicate, but it's not unbreakable either, And you know, 247 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: a sufficiently extreme movement in a way that causes people 248 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: to really have second guessings and misgivings about Twitter, no doubt, 249 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: could catalyze a decision to migrate, you know, to linked 250 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: In or Facebook or any number of other alternatives. So 251 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: this is a kind of a difficult balance. It seems 252 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 1: to me that Mr Musk is going to have to 253 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: navigate how much can he turn this company and this 254 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: platform into a non judgmental and permissive platform, but by 255 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: the same token, not lose this big segment of audience 256 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: that is, essentially the audience has gotten left behind as 257 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: Parlor and true Social have essentially, you know, formed and 258 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: tried to attract some of the audience. I should also 259 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: note that because those other entities themselves, you know, are 260 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: now relatively established, though their audiences and their footprint are small, 261 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: they're gonna want to hold onto those folks as well. 262 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: So how easy it's going to be to reclaim that 263 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: territory still remains to be seen. In line with bringing 264 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: money to the platform, he wants to take away the 265 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: blue badges of verified users if they don't pay for 266 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: the site's new subscription service, Twitter Blue. I think that's 267 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: one of the things they're trying to experiment with, is, 268 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: you know, how strong are these network effects in which 269 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: people who been you know, cultivating on online following have 270 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: become verified users? How much are they willing to pay 271 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 1: to maintain that status. Obviously, once you become prohibitively expensive, 272 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: everyone decides now I'm either going to dump the blue 273 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: badge status or I'm going to move to a different platform. 274 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: And once the blue badges are being charged for it 275 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: may well be that the nature of their status changes. 276 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: Maybe at some point it's no longer the folks who 277 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: are the big influencers, but the folks that are willing 278 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: to pay the most for it. At that point, why 279 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: should anyone necessarily pay any particular attention to someone because 280 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: they have a blue badge? So this is a look, 281 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: It's it's one area where you know, he probably should 282 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: be thinking a little bit about can I monetize the 283 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: folks that are likely to be the most loyal users 284 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: of Twitter and the Blue Badge folks are in fact 285 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: the folks that have some of the largest networks on 286 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: Twitter right now, So it's not a crazy idea to 287 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: try to figure out is it possible to monetize that 288 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: in some way? And it could in fact be some 289 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: sort of a monthly subscription and price. But once that 290 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: gets too high, it not only becomes hard to afford, 291 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: but it becomes almost like a personal affront to the 292 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: nature of how these Blue Badges got built up to 293 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: begin with, and that could hasten the departure on a 294 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: pretty wide scale basis. But this is definitely a delicate 295 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: operation and I think it can backfire relatively quickly if 296 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: you don't proceed with you know, appropriate caution. Is there 297 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: a time limit for how long they have to turn 298 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: things around? But yes and no, I guess. On the 299 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: one hand, you know, Elon Musk substantially owns this company, 300 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: and he's still the richest person in the world, so 301 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: you know, if they run out of money, maybe he 302 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: can you know, cough up a little bit more and 303 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: and convince some of his friends and colleagues to cough 304 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: up more. I mean, on their hand, their patients is 305 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: not going to be infinite to the extent that it 306 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: doesn't look like this company is actually doing anything more 307 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: than sort of viraling a current altitude or maybe even 308 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: falling in altitude. They're not going to be too anxious 309 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: to kick in more money. And in addition, they're not 310 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: really sitting on a treasure trove of cash to absorb 311 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 1: losses that they are likely to have to incur while 312 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 1: they're experimenting with different ways to alter and expand and 313 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,959 Speaker 1: monetize the platform. Although Twitter had a decent amount of 314 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: cash on hand, you know, almost six billion dollars on hand, 315 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: a lot of that apparently went into the closing of 316 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 1: the transaction, largely to pay off the pre existing debt 317 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: that Twitter had, so their cash margins, their margin of 318 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: error is actually quite thin before they would have to 319 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 1: go back to someone to help provide them with additional capital. 320 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: I think that makes the timeline a little uncomfortably short 321 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: for Mr Musk, unless you know, he's basically just willing 322 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: to provide that capital himself, and he might be, but 323 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: it's certainly more painful than it would have been five 324 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: or six months ago, with Tesla now trading at far 325 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: lower values and most of his wealth is tied up 326 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: in his paper ownership of Tesla stock. Thanks Eric, that's 327 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 1: Columbia Law School professor Eric Talley. Hoblicans have won a 328 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: ruling on mail in ballots in Pennsylvania, a state where 329 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: a close race could determine control of the Senate. In 330 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: a unanimous decision, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court has ordered officials 331 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: not to count votes from mail in or absentee ballots 332 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: with the wrong date marked on the envelope. But the 333 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: court split on the question of whether that state law 334 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: provision violates the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four. 335 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: Joining me is elections law expert Richard Brofald, a professor 336 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: at Columbia Law School. Rich wasn't this same issue before 337 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: the courts in Pennsylvania before election? This issue has been 338 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: in and out of the Pennsylvania Federal State Course the 339 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: less several years, and previously the state courts and the 340 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: Third Circuit had argued that this requirement that ballots be 341 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: dated if this doesn't affect question of the ballots have 342 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: to be end by the deadline. This is not any 343 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: effort to change the deadline. It's just that the state 344 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: law requires that the ballot bee saw but in a 345 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: security envelope and the outside the envelope be dated with 346 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: the Third Circuit of feals with The Third Circuit ruled 347 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: in an earlier case dealing with the state election that 348 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: they would have to count ballots even if the date 349 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: was missing or improper, so long as the ballots had 350 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: received on time, because the fact that the ballot was 351 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: not data was not material to the voters qualifications. In 352 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: the words, if the ballot has been received on time, 353 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: why does it matter whether it's dated or not. The 354 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: state law does require the dating, but part of the 355 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,719 Speaker 1: federal voting rights law says that you shouldn't deny anybody 356 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 1: the right to vote for an error or omission on 357 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: anything relating to elections if it's not material to determining 358 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 1: their qualifications and omitting to vot. A date on something 359 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: when the thing is still come in by the deadline, 360 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: the Third Circuit ruled was not material. Those Republican Party 361 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: tried to seek review of that in the Supreme Court 362 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: quite wanted ultimately vacating the decision as moot was opposed 363 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: to leading it in place, and so in a way, 364 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: the previous Rital Court decision had no precedential effect, so 365 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: the Pennsylvania Supreme Court had to decide this. The Pennsylvania 366 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: Supreme Court came to the opposite decision from the Third 367 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,880 Speaker 1: Circuit and then deadlock three to three on the question 368 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: involving the Civil Rights Act. So the state Secretary of 369 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: State adopted a guidance for the county board saying you 370 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: have to accept them even if they're not dated, if 371 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: they have arrived on time, and so the Republican Party 372 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: soon apparently there's a procedure in the Pennsylvania system allowing 373 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: sue directly in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court. Pennsylvania Supreme Court 374 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,879 Speaker 1: held that the guidance violated the state statute which requires 375 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 1: that ballots be dated. But where the court divided evenly 376 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: three to three is on the question whether that state 377 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: law was itself in violation of the federal Voting Rights Law, 378 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: which makes it illegal to refuse to count the ballot 379 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: if any error or omission on it is not material 380 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: to the voters qualification to vote, And the argument is 381 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: that if the ballots actually turned him on time, the 382 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: lack of a date on it isn't really material to 383 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: whether the voto was a properasity voter that was the 384 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: issue that the Pennsylvana Supreme Court divided on free three. 385 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: Can this decision be appealed? I think they have to 386 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: start in a whole new case, because you can't appeal 387 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: a state Supreme court decision of the third got to 388 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: bring a new lawsuit, and it's probably too late for that. 389 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: This will likely result in more Democratic leaning votes being 390 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: tossed out because so far over nine hundred thousand mail 391 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: ballots have been returned in Pennsylvania, and of those, over 392 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 1: seventy have come from voters registered as Democrats. Why did 393 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: Democrats vote by mail so much more than Republicans. It 394 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: used to be the case that there was no difference 395 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: in voter usage, and indeed, I think there was some 396 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: evidence that do you go back twenty years, Republicans used 397 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,280 Speaker 1: absentee voting more than Democrats, and these Democrats then were 398 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,239 Speaker 1: suspicious that the votes wouldn't be counted. And also early on, 399 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: especially in states that did not have the automatic right 400 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: to get an absentute ballot, it was mostly used by 401 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: people who were either ill errapts from the state and 402 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: maybe on business and so attend has belean a little 403 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 1: bit Republican or at least be neutral. They're starting really 404 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: with the election, and Trump's demonization of absentee voting has 405 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: led all Republicans to generally demonize absentee voting and has 406 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: led them to adopt laws that make it harder absentee 407 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: vote and has led them to bring challenges to situations 408 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: in which absente voting is being used. So basically, the 409 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: Republican Party, which previously was either equally supportive or just 410 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: indifferent absentee voting, has at the federal and state level, 411 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 1: has basically, whether it's through litigation or through legislative change, 412 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: turned against it. And so I think Republican voters are 413 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: consequently have begun to turn against it. Another thing that 414 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: former President Trump vilified and Republicans seemed to be as 415 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: well is drop boxes. Exactly. So, we had the situation 416 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: in Arizona where there were armed men wearing flack jackets 417 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: guarding these drop boxes, and there were incidents of harassing people. 418 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: They're taking photos of them, the photos are being publish 419 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: and a judge second time around, the first time he 420 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: didn't block it. Second time around, he did block them. 421 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: So to tell us about that, it's exactly as you say, um, 422 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: so drop boxes have been around for some time to 423 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: do a drop boxes as they secure special box created 424 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: by the local elections board. Some of them are just 425 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: outside the elections board that are available when the board 426 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 1: is closed you know, at night, or more convenient for 427 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: people who are driving by. Some of them are put 428 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: in satellite locations to make it more accessible to people 429 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: throughout a county. They've been around for some time, but 430 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 1: they were used rather heavily because in the COVID circumstances 431 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: many more people were using absentee ballots and also because 432 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,479 Speaker 1: of a desire to discourage people from coming into polling places, 433 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: because of the desire to you know, to keep people 434 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: apart during COVID. Drop boxes are an enormous convenience and 435 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 1: make it easier for people who want to cast an 436 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: absentee ballot and don't trust the postal service to get 437 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: their ballots securely returned. But again as part of the 438 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,239 Speaker 1: general hostility to abs and devoting Republicans have become very 439 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: hostile to drop boxes and are convinced somehow that they're 440 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: being used to deposit fraudulent ballots. They're all particularly in 441 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,640 Speaker 1: hostile to video that some people might be dropping off 442 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: more than one ballot, such as a husband might be 443 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 1: dropping off the spouse's ballot, or a parent might be 444 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: dropping off their adult child's ballot, or an adult might 445 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: be dropping off a parent's ballot. And so, yes, so 446 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: there are these sort of vigilantes now being organized to 447 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: show up outside ballot box locations and are engaging in 448 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: various degrees of harrisment, sometimes outright harrisman, you know, calling 449 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: and yelling at people, sometimes more subtle standing around with 450 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: guns and body armor, or taking pictures of people and 451 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: taking pictures of their license plates and then posting them 452 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: on websites with the suggestion that these people are some 453 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 1: committing voter fraud. And so you had a long list 454 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,400 Speaker 1: of witnesses testifying to the harrisment that they endured, which 455 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: led this judge, who I should point out was a 456 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: judge that was nominated by President Trump, to conclude that yes, 457 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: there is really harrisment going on, to orders to stop, 458 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 1: and also to order them to stop posting people's pictures 459 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: on on social media, and to also point out that 460 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: it is not necessarily illegal to drop off to return 461 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,400 Speaker 1: more than one ballot. Some states to prohibit organizations from 462 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: returning the ballots of floors, numbers of people. Just about 463 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: all states that restrict sort of a group return of 464 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: ballots permit people to return ballots for a family member, 465 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: somebody who shares a household, for a caregiver to return 466 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: the ballot for the person who's they're giving care to, 467 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: and sort of just to make it clear on their 468 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: websites that that kind of return of NEPs developer someone 469 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,199 Speaker 1: else is totally legal. Thanks so much, rich That's Professor 470 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: Richard Fault of Columbia Law School, And that's it for 471 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: this edition of The Bloomberg Law Show. Remember you can 472 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: always get the latest legal news on our Bloomberg Law Podcast. 473 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: You can find them on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and at 474 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: www dot Bloomberg dot com, slash podcast, slash Law, And 475 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: remember to tune into The Bloomberg Law Show every week 476 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: night at ten BM Wall Street Time. I'm June Grossow, 477 00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: and you're listening to Bloomberg