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Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Think back, just for

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Speaker 1: a moment, think back to a time before you ever

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Speaker 1: knew death. Now, remember that moment in your life when

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Speaker 1: death first visited you. Maybe you were at a bedside

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Speaker 1: watching over a family member, or maybe you received a

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Speaker 1: phone call. It's something that marks you. I still remember

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Speaker 1: the first time it happened with me and an aunt

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Speaker 1: that I loved very very much, and she died as

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Speaker 1: a result of a car accident, and it's my earliest memory,

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Speaker 1: true earliest memory of death. But just imagine for a moment,

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Speaker 1: your young child, your mother is your world. You've got

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Speaker 1: a baby's sister, and you've been brought home, been brought

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Speaker 1: home to that place that you've always known peace. You're

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Speaker 1: nine years old. Your toys are there, your room is there.

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Speaker 1: Everything that defines you as a family is kind of

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Speaker 1: in that environment. And the person that has just killed

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Speaker 1: your mother makes you kneel before her body to bear

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Speaker 1: witness to all that remains. Today on Bodybacks, we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about one of the darker cases that I've

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Speaker 1: come across, and we're going to talk about a mother

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Speaker 1: who tried to make a family. You know, a very

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Speaker 1: fractured environment.

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Speaker 2: Lavina Armstrong's attempt to leave her marriage ended in violence.

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Speaker 2: Husband Gary Green stabbed his wife multiple times with two

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Speaker 2: different knives. When Armstead was dead, Green grabbed his six

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Speaker 2: year old stepdaughter, Jasmine Montgomery, and bound her hands together

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Speaker 2: behind her back with duck tape. Montgomery then drowned the

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Speaker 2: girl in the bathtub. Green showered in the same tub, dressed,

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Speaker 2: and went to pick up his two step sons from church.

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Speaker 2: Back at the house, the older boy was stabbed in

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Speaker 2: the stomach. The younger boy was able to talk Green

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Speaker 2: out of killing them, but not before Green forced them

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Speaker 2: to look at the dead bodies of their mother and

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Speaker 2: little sister.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybags, Dave. We

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Speaker 1: talk about death on the show. That's what we do.

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Speaker 1: I hate to be so morose because of our relationship

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Speaker 1: that we have. I know how much you love your mama.

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Speaker 1: I love my mama. I've talked about having been the

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Speaker 1: child of a single mother, and you look at your

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Speaker 1: mother and she holds up the world that you live in.

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Speaker 1: She is that foundation, she's your at less. Essentially, potentially,

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Speaker 1: in my case, the man in my family's life walked

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Speaker 1: out there. I can't imagine the depths of sorrow and horror.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine that that the small child experienced when

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Speaker 1: he saw his mother and his little sister lating dead

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Speaker 1: on that floor in that house, and this monster standing

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Speaker 1: right over his shoulder.

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Speaker 3: It just makes you shudder to think of what people

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Speaker 3: are capable of. Gary Green was married to Levita Armstead.

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Speaker 3: She has three children. Jerome Armstead is twelve, Jared Armstead

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Speaker 3: is nine, Jasmine Montgomery is six, and Levita had decided

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Speaker 3: it was time to annul the marriage based on what

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Speaker 3: we know. There was more than just physical abuse, psychological abuse,

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Speaker 3: and we know that Gary Green was not psychologically healthy.

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Speaker 3: Not throwing that in there as an excuse for what

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Speaker 3: took place, merely pointing it out to the level of

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Speaker 3: hell that he put his wife, Levita, and the children Jerome,

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Speaker 3: Jarrett and Jasmine on a daily basis. They had to

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Speaker 3: be walking on Hl's Joe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I got to tell you, Gary Green, when you

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Speaker 1: see this guy, the first term that comes to mind

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Speaker 1: for me is ogre. He is a big, hulking mass.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he is a big man and you look

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Speaker 1: at him and you think, how easy is it to

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Speaker 1: just maybe intimidate for somebody like him, a grown man,

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Speaker 1: how much more so this woman that he's into a

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Speaker 1: marriage with, that he's supposed to be her protector, right,

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Speaker 1: And then these babies. You think about them, and how

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Speaker 1: intimidating is this. Many of us have been on the

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Speaker 1: receiving end of verbal abuse and physical abuse and that

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Speaker 1: sort of thing over the years, and you see somebody,

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Speaker 1: this hulking person that is able to do this, this

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Speaker 1: life that they led. You're right to say this. I

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Speaker 1: think that it was probably a hellish existence.

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Speaker 3: Well, we know that there were two letters written by

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Speaker 3: Levita Armstead explaining to Gary Green why she wanted to

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Speaker 3: do what she wanted to do with regard to her

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Speaker 3: family and protecting everybody. And in those letters she wrote,

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Speaker 3: and I'm trying to she said. She told him, I

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Speaker 3: love you, but I have to do what's best for me.

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Speaker 3: And hers was this tone of love, of caring about

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Speaker 3: she was caring about his feelings and how he thought.

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Speaker 3: And he wrote a letter to her and when you

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Speaker 3: read it, it's not love, it's anger. It's a rambling

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Speaker 3: expression that he believed Armstead and her children were involved

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Speaker 3: in some kind of plot against him. He also laid

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Speaker 3: out exactly what he planned to do to his wife,

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Speaker 3: Levita and those three children. What he was going to

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Speaker 3: do was end it all and then take his own life.

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Speaker 1: Joe. Yeah, and one of the most dangerous times to

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Speaker 1: be around someone that has this level of discord in

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Speaker 1: their life, has this potential for anger. And you hear

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Speaker 1: this a lot. You know, I've worked a lot of

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Speaker 1: suicides over the course of my career, and you begin

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Speaker 1: to kind of develop a kind of a standard profile

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Speaker 1: when it comes to this. There's one thing for somebody

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Speaker 1: to maybe think about what the world would be like

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Speaker 1: without them. Then you've got another level where they might

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Speaker 1: make a comment, well, I'm just going to take my life.

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Speaker 1: Then you've got this kind of third phase that they

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Speaker 1: go into where now they have planned in a case

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Speaker 1: like this, where you've got a planned or at least

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Speaker 1: it's intimated that there is a plan in place for

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Speaker 1: a murder suicide, and they begin to specifically explain how

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Speaker 1: they're going to go about doing this. That means that

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Speaker 1: in the front end of their mind they are actually

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Speaker 1: formulating that and that's when it gets dangerous. And this

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Speaker 1: is what psychiatrists and psychologists actually refer to as suicidal

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Speaker 1: ideation and homicidal ideation. And you add this other component

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Speaker 1: to it that's called vocalization. You can kind of understand

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Speaker 1: what that means. So not only you thinking it now,

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Speaker 1: you're saying that this intimidating thing in little kids like this.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but when I was a

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Speaker 1: little kid, I didn't think about the end of things.

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Speaker 1: Everything seemed like it was going to go on forever

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Speaker 1: and ever. You know, now that I've gotten a little

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Speaker 1: bit longer in the tooth in my life, you know

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Speaker 1: that there is a terminus that's approaching all of us.

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Speaker 1: You don't think that way when you're a little kid.

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Speaker 1: And so if he ever threatened these kids with that,

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Speaker 1: it may have been more abstract. They may have just thought, well,

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Speaker 1: he's going to hurt us, you know, he's going to

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Speaker 1: hit us, or he's going to yell at us again,

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Speaker 1: or maybe he's going to hurt mama again. But at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, it wasn't this monster that

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Speaker 1: killed himself, but he reigned hell down on his family

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Speaker 1: and brought two lives to an end. A combination of

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Speaker 1: sharp force injuries, which means any injury that is generated

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Speaker 1: with an edged weapon. We think about knives, meat cleavers, axes,

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Speaker 1: and machete. If it has an edge on it that

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Speaker 1: can generate a sharp force injury, it could be your

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Speaker 1: grandpa's pocket knife that's been passed down for generations. I've

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Speaker 1: had homicides committed with pocket knives. But you've got a

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Speaker 1: combination of that and Dave. In this particular case, we've

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Speaker 1: also got the added element of homicidal drowning. That's something

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Speaker 1: that you don't commonly come across because it requires so

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Speaker 1: much exertion. It requires so much effort on the part

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Speaker 1: of the perpetrator. And like I said, this guy is

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Speaker 1: so big, and when you're talking about kids, when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about say a woman that might be physically weaker

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Speaker 1: than him, it can be pulled off, but it's not

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Speaker 1: going to be pulled off without some kind of fight.

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Speaker 3: I want to point a couple things out very quickly here. One,

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Speaker 3: Levita and Green had not been married very long. It'd

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Speaker 3: only been a matter of months. And that's why the

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Speaker 3: term annulment is used. Is not thrown around in a

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Speaker 3: silly way. It is an annulment, meaning that married long

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Speaker 3: enough to do the divorce she had already seen enough

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Speaker 3: in a very short period of time that she wanted

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Speaker 3: it over for the safety of herself but her children

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Speaker 3: more than anything else. Also, when the act took place,

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Speaker 3: the boys were at church and Levita and Jasmine were

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Speaker 3: at home with Green. Then he goes to the church

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Speaker 3: and picks up the boys and brings them back. Joe,

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Speaker 3: I mean, what kind of person.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's one of the things that you begin

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Speaker 1: to think about. It's one thing when you have and

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Speaker 1: I've worked these cases where you'll have sharp force injuries,

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Speaker 1: for instance, and the person comes running out of the

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Speaker 1: home and there's some kind of fevered mental state and

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Speaker 1: they're screaming in their blood covered. That's not what happened here, Dave.

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Speaker 1: This is kind of and calculated, isn't it. And that

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Speaker 1: adds the level because Levita has sustained multiple stab wounds,

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Speaker 1: the number is astronomical. In addition to that, there is

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Speaker 1: water involved. So you've got blood and water because these victims,

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Speaker 1: the little girl in particular, has been drowned Jasmine, So

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Speaker 1: you've got blood that is potentially covering this fellow, and

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Speaker 1: then you've got bathwater that has splashed all over him.

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Speaker 1: He would be covered from head to toe. So from

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Speaker 1: an evidentiary standpoint, when you begin to think if he

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Speaker 1: has calculated this out in his brain where he wants

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Speaker 1: to pull this thing off and perpetrate it, well, he's

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Speaker 1: got the mama and her daughter separated from the two boys, right,

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Speaker 1: so he's not gonna have to deal with a larger

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Speaker 1: group of people. The boys are at church during that

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Speaker 1: period of time. He has taken this opportunity to perpetrate

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Speaker 1: this horrible crime on Levita, and in addition of that, Jasmine.

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Speaker 1: Well it's a mess, It's an absolute mess. So what

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Speaker 1: does he have to do before he goes and picks

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Speaker 1: up these boys?

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Speaker 3: Can we back up a minute, Joe, because I'm all right,

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Speaker 3: we know that he's got two and he has to

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Speaker 3: control the entire situation. Six year olds are fast. Six

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Speaker 3: year old girls are really fast. And I was looking

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Speaker 3: at this trying to figure out how did he do this?

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Speaker 3: How was he able to be this? He didn't have

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Speaker 3: LaVita tied down in the bed and just start stabbing away.

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Speaker 3: They were in a fight, and I wondered the whole

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Speaker 3: time what was going on with Jasmine? That Jasmine had

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Speaker 3: duct tape, her hands were duct tape behind her back.

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Speaker 3: We know he's brandishing the weapon and threatening. I'm wondering

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Speaker 3: if he made Jasmine witness what he was doing to

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Speaker 3: her mother, because what he did to her mother was

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Speaker 3: multiple I don't know how many times. And I wondered

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Speaker 3: they were in this fight because Levita actually was able

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Speaker 3: to stab Gary Green twice during their fight. He broke

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Speaker 3: a knife on her and had to get another one.

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Speaker 3: This was not some I've already got her down and

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Speaker 3: I'm stabbing.

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Speaker 1: This was a fight. Yes, It's not some kind of

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Speaker 1: stealthy attack, and that goes through the viciousness of it.

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Speaker 3: LaVita was trying to save not just her life, but

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Speaker 3: think about it. She knows her daughters are here, and

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Speaker 3: she knows the boys at some point they're going to

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Speaker 3: come home. Now we know that he had to have

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Speaker 3: killed LaVita first based on this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he would have had to. He would have attacked her.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if the little girl may have been

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Speaker 1: in another room when all of this initiated. But here's

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Speaker 1: the thing. We know that he killed her, the mother, Levita,

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Speaker 1: and did he actually make Jasmine sit there through this

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Speaker 1: event and bear witness to what he was doing to

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Speaker 1: the mother perhaps, but as you rightly stated, we've got

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Speaker 1: multiple edged weapons that are involved in this where he's

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Speaker 1: been stabbed, so he's leak blood. And then you take

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Speaker 1: that and you compare it to the injuries that Levita

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Speaker 1: has sustained. And I'll look, man, I'll go ahead. What

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Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you is that this number I'm

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Speaker 1: about to tell you is going to be shocking. Levita

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Speaker 1: was stabbed thirty times, Dave thirty. Just let that sink

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Speaker 1: in and anybody in the sound of my voice, think

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Speaker 1: about what it would take to hold a knife and

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Speaker 1: almost like a sewing machine, an old fashioned sewing machine,

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Speaker 1: drop that knife thirty times into somebody the will that

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Speaker 1: it takes to do that, because you know you're passing

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Speaker 1: through multiple layers of tissue when you're doing this. And

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Speaker 1: so she's been injured grievously. And the one thing that

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Speaker 1: we know about stab ones is that they generate a

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Speaker 1: tremendous amount of blood. Copious. We use that term quite

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Speaker 1: a bit. When you go on to a scene where

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Speaker 1: there has been a stabbing event, those scenes are the bloodiest.

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Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of it has to

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Speaker 1: do with your compromising the structural integrity of the circulatory system.

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Speaker 1: And so you're opening up these large, gaping injuries, and

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Speaker 1: they're not all going to be the same because some

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Speaker 1: of these can be what are referred to as classic

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Speaker 1: stab wounds, while others will be referred to as incized wounds.

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Speaker 1: For instance, like our teeth, our frontal teeth are referred

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Speaker 1: to as incisors. And it goes back to an original

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Speaker 1: definition of bladed. So are edged, so they're used for cutting,

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Speaker 1: and so insized wound means that if you in size

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Speaker 1: an area, just like surgery, that means you're taking the

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Speaker 1: edge of the weapon and drawing it across the skin.

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Speaker 1: So it's always the rule of thumb for us is

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Speaker 1: that insized wounds are longer than deep, and then stab

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Speaker 1: wounds are deeper than long, and so you're going to

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Speaker 1: go deeper into the tissue with a stab wound. Say,

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Speaker 1: if you stab someone in the chest and withdraw the NYE.

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Speaker 1: Now you may or may not hit a major organ,

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Speaker 1: that's possible, but you are going to hit some kind

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Speaker 1: of vessel structure that's in there, whether it's an artery

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Speaker 1: or a vein. Maybe sometimes you'll clip both of them

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Speaker 1: along the way. Along the track, because stab wins have tracks,

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Speaker 1: just like bullets have tracks, So you're going to damage

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Speaker 1: that tissue in there, and the scene would just be

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Speaker 1: covered in blood. And that's what's so fascinating that after

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Speaker 1: he had perpetrated this crime, if this child is restrained,

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Speaker 1: or if he restrained her in order to get her

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Speaker 1: to the bathtub, he would have just been covered in

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Speaker 1: her mother's blood. So not only does is she disoriented

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Speaker 1: because there would have been a lot of screaming, there

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Speaker 1: would have been a lot of banging, there would have

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Speaker 1: been a lot of carrying on. Her terror level is rising.

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Speaker 1: Now she's got duct tape over her mouth, and she's

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Speaker 1: already shallow breathing already the only way she can breathe

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Speaker 1: is through her nose. He doesn't want her to scream,

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Speaker 1: and she's born witness to this, and he is just

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Speaker 1: covered in blood. So he grabs her and when he does,

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Speaker 1: he's got water in the bathtub and he begins to

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Speaker 1: submerge Jasmine. And the last thing that she has seen, Dave,

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Speaker 1: is this image for her of her mother splayed out

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Speaker 1: in that house with blood. You can just imagine maybe

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Speaker 1: the last words coming out of her mouth is don't

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Speaker 1: hurt my baby. Maybe she calls out her name Jasmine,

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Speaker 1: because mom has no idea what's going to happen. She

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Speaker 1: doesn't live to tell the tale, and she knows in

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Speaker 1: her mind. Trust me, mamas know where their kids are.

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Speaker 1: She knows that her babies or her other two babies

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Speaker 1: are at church. She's thinking, what's he going to do?

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Speaker 1: No wonder. She fought like a tiger in the midst

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Speaker 1: of this because she knew this horrible event was taking place,

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Speaker 1: and she is that last line of defense.

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Speaker 3: Dave.

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Speaker 1: If he even attempted to wash his hands off in

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Speaker 1: any way when he's grabbing Jasmine, which I doubt that

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Speaker 1: he would have, and even though she would have been

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Speaker 1: in the bathtub, there's still going to be transfer of

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Speaker 1: her own mother's blood to her in some way. That's

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Speaker 1: the thing about death. Everywhere death is present, there will

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Speaker 1: be a trace left behind. One of the most terrific

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Speaker 1: aspects to this family being completely destroyed is that when

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Speaker 1: the forensic pathologist, doctor Meredith Lawn, was examining Jasmine's body

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Speaker 1: that autopsy, she made note of the fact that she

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Speaker 1: saw the Jasmin's ankles Jasmine's wrist were bound with duct

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Speaker 1: tape imagine that if you will, you're six years old

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Speaker 1: and you're restrained to the point where you can't move.

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Speaker 1: In kind of this little final note, she looks at

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Speaker 1: Jazz's little cheek on the left side and there is

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Speaker 1: adhesive that has been left behind by duct tape. We

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Speaker 1: can appreciate this because lots of us have used duct

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Speaker 1: tape over the years. You know that when you peel

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Speaker 1: it back, there is that residue that remains. And she

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Speaker 1: probably would have seen some blood. That is Levita's blood.

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Speaker 1: The blood of this child's mother would have been on

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Speaker 1: the body in some form, maybe minute, but it would

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Speaker 1: have been there. As she's conducting this examination, she's taking

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Speaker 1: a look at Jasmine and her broken little body there,

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Speaker 1: and she's noting that there are fatiki little blood vessels

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Speaker 1: have burst in her eyes and overlined the thiamus, which

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Speaker 1: is an organ that is situated beneath the breastbone in

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Speaker 1: the body, and as we get older, it kind of

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Speaker 1: decreases in size. But in a little child like Jasmine,

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Speaker 1: very dominiont of six years old, when her little chest

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Speaker 1: would have been opened up at autopsy, that thyamus would

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Speaker 1: have been very visible and it was covered with petiki

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Speaker 1: as well. There were petiki all over the long stay,

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Speaker 1: over the epiclottis, which is that flap that kind of

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Speaker 1: covers the windpipe if you will. They were everywhere, and

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Speaker 1: that means that's this child struggle Dave in the wake

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Speaker 1: of what had just happened.

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Speaker 3: Joe, I'm looking at both of these the victims here

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Speaker 3: with Levita and Jasmine. Now we have Lavida stabbed thirty times.

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Speaker 3: Now did that number come from Gary Green saying I

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Speaker 3: stabbed her thirty times? Were they counted? And then the

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Speaker 3: second part here when it comes to Jasmine asphyxiated and drowned?

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Speaker 3: All right, So how do we know how is it

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Speaker 3: possible for somebody to be stabbed thirty times in the

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Speaker 3: case of Levita and not one of those stab wounds

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Speaker 3: actually be fatal? And how is it possible to determine

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Speaker 3: was Jasmine asphyxiated or drowned or was it a combination

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Speaker 3: of both.

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Speaker 1: It's an excellent question, and I'm so glad you asked that,

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Speaker 1: because it confusing, because this is a layer case. I

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Speaker 1: know I always fall back to gunshot wounds. There's a

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Speaker 1: simplicity in gunshot wounds. Okay, some people would argue that

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Speaker 1: I'm Morgan, You're out of your mind. But there's a

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00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 1: simplicity to gunshot ones. But when you look at just

339
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,119
Speaker 1: stab wounds alone, or let's say sharp force injury wounds,

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Speaker 1: there is a real complicating factor. Every time you stab someone,

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Speaker 1: there's no guarantee you're going to strike a critical area.

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Speaker 1: You can pass an eye through interstitial tissue that is

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Speaker 1: just maybe subkey fat. You'll have these superficial wounds in

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Speaker 1: the arms, in the hands, maybe lateral chest, maybe even

345
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Speaker 1: the neck that are not necessarily fatal. But you've got

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Speaker 1: this combination of all these. And the trick is when

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Speaker 1: you're examining at autopsy the body of someone that has

348
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Speaker 1: been stabbed. First off, you have to clean the body

349
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Speaker 1: very very thoroughly externally. You document it in its pristine state,

350
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Speaker 1: where you have blood crusted clothing. You've got these injuries

351
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Speaker 1: that are crusted with blood, but you're not truly going

352
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 1: to be able to appreciate the injuries, so you have

353
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Speaker 1: to clean it very very thoroughly and then go back

354
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Speaker 1: one by one and try to count the number of wounds,

355
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Speaker 1: and you have to orient them anatomically. You have to

356
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Speaker 1: stay there's a stab woond to the apex of the

357
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,480
Speaker 1: left shoulder, or there is a stab woone that's more

358
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Speaker 1: medial than it is lateral relative to the left shoulder blade,

359
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,199
Speaker 1: and you have to do anatomical measurements. That's all of

360
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 1: the external stuff. And then one of the other things

361
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:34,920
Speaker 1: that you're going to be looking for is you begin

362
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,399
Speaker 1: to get into the dissection, is do any of these

363
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Speaker 1: stab wounds or let me say it this way, how

364
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,000
Speaker 1: many of these stab wounds actually have hemorrhage? Because I

365
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Speaker 1: know a lot of folks are probably thinking, well, every

366
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 1: stab wound would have hemorrhage. No, it wouldn't because if

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00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 1: stab winds have occurred post mortem, you're not going to

368
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 1: have hemorrhage in those areas. So it's important to try

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Speaker 1: to determine where the most hemorrhage is and what organ

370
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 1: systems are affected. I mean, you've got a stab women

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Speaker 1: that's going into the lung, for instance, there's a high

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Speaker 1: probability that that's going to be lethal. If you've got

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Speaker 1: multiple of them, that probability increases the heart, the neck,

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Speaker 1: any of the vessels in the neck, that sort of thing,

375
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Speaker 1: and there'll be a lot of bruising associated with this. Too,

376
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Speaker 1: because you know this, when you stab someone, this is

377
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Speaker 1: not just merely an action that is solely involving that

378
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: edged weapon passing through the tissue. It involves a kind

379
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Speaker 1: of a slamming down or an insertion, a forceful insertion

380
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: of this blade. So if the person is still alive,

381
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: you can get word referred to as hilt bruises that

382
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: surround actually the insized area where that area around the

383
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 1: injury itself has hemorrhage. This is one on one combat,

384
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Speaker 1: Let's face it, Dave, You'll have bruises all over the

385
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Speaker 1: body many times because people are being punched and pummeled

386
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Speaker 1: and kicked in addition to being stabbed. So it's they're very,

387
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 1: very complex, these stab woond cases.

388
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 3: Are they not overlapping? I mean, are they not interconnected?

389
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Speaker 3: I'm just picturing if you're stabbing that there's going to

390
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 3: be a general area where the stab wounds are going

391
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 3: to be. Yeah, I'm just kind of picturing a circle

392
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Speaker 3: in just these whole stab because it's all happening so fast,

393
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Speaker 3: and I'm thinking, aren't some of these going to blur together?

394
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 3: Or one ends here, the other one starts here, but

395
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 3: then they intersect here? And how do you separate, because

396
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 3: that's the goal here at autops he has to figure

397
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 3: out exactly what happened. But how long would it take

398
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 3: you if none of the actual stab wounds inny and

399
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 3: of themselves is fatal. How long does it take for

400
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 3: somebody to bleed to death?

401
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: Well, again that's depended upon which vessels are clipped. And

402
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 1: many times, and this is one part that's really horrific.

403
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: Many times you can have multiple stab wounds and you're

404
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: not going to be bleeding externally. Imagine that. Guess where

405
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: the blood is going, and particularly if you have stab

406
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: wounds to the chest, well, it's filling the chest. I've

407
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: participated in an autopsy before man where we've had individuals

408
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 1: that have been stabbed in the heart and the lungs

409
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: and they lived, but the entire time they're living, it's

410
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 1: not much much of a life. They're bleeding out internally.

411
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: So there is this pressure that is building in what's

412
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: referred to as the plural spaces around the lungs, and

413
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 1: the lungs are essentially their ability to expand is being

414
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 1: compromised greatly. Not to mention, there's probably a stab wound

415
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: to one of them. So it's even further complicated by that,

416
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,719
Speaker 1: and all the while the chest cavity is filling up

417
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: with blood. That's one of the reasons when people are

418
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,400
Speaker 1: shot in the chest and stabbed, when they get them

419
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: to the emergency room, there will be a little incision

420
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: that is made in between the ribs and there will

421
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: be a drain that is inserted in there. And what

422
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 1: are they doing, Well, they're draining blood out of the

423
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 1: chest because you've got what's referred to as plurally fusion,

424
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: and it literally begins, you know, people say it drowns

425
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: the lungs. It's really a pressure event that's complicating the

426
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: lungs ability to expand and refill with air. So they

427
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: have to relieve that pressure and to get them into

428
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: surgery so they can close that area. And this is

429
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: how complicated it is. If you want the person to survive,

430
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: you've also got to hang units of blood on them

431
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: because they've lost blood. It's a real race against the clock.

432
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 1: In this particular case, we know.

433
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 3: That Levita is stabbed thirty times or more, she's bleeding out,

434
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 3: she's dying, and Gary Green then moves on to his stepdaughter,

435
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 3: six year old Jasmine, and we know based on duct

436
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 3: tape with her hands behind her back. We know this.

437
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 3: We also know, as we mentioned earlier, asphyxiated and drowned.

438
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 3: And my question really, I don't know how far to

439
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,959
Speaker 3: go with this, but I'm thinking, was he trying to

440
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 3: strangle her first? Was he trying, you know, putting his

441
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 3: hands on around her neck and then sticking here underwater

442
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 3: or was it simultaneous. Can you figure that out?

443
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can figure it out. I know one thing

444
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 1: that kind of popped in mind for me when I

445
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: was reading the physician's autopsy report. The cause of death

446
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: is actually going to be hypoxia, which is a lack

447
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: of oxygen, and you can create that event into one

448
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: of two ways. You can either be drowned. There's other ways,

449
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: but in this case, there's one of two ways. You

450
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: can either drown or you can inhibit their ability to

451
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,239
Speaker 1: breathe outside of water. You can cover their airway, you

452
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: can compress their neck maybe with your hands or ligature.

453
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: So I think that you've got this going on both levels. However,

454
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: she was producing and this is noted by the physician

455
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 1: that's doing the examination. She's producing this kind of pink

456
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: froth that's coming from her nose and her mouth, and

457
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: many times we see that associated with drowning, and you

458
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 1: see it with drug odes too, But you'll get this.

459
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: We call it frothy, admitous cone that's coming out of

460
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: the mouth and it will rise up, and it's really

461
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,679
Speaker 1: kind of this strange event that occurs. I've been present.

462
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: Started my career in New Orleans, so I had a

463
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: lot of water related deaths, drownings, and when you pull

464
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: the body out of the water, many times, all of

465
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: a sudden, when you're laying the deceased on their back,

466
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: this cone begins to appear out of their nose in

467
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,239
Speaker 1: their mouth and it's bubbling. People will think about the

468
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: head of a poorly poored beer they showed on television,

469
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 1: you know where you have beer, and it's this glorious thing.

470
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: They say, you know, you don't want this gigantic head

471
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: of white froth on the beer. It's like that only

472
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: in the case of a drowning victim. And in some

473
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: poisonings and some ods it'll be pink tinged. And that's

474
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: that hemorrhagic event that's going on in the lungs. The

475
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: lungs are screaming, they're crying out for air and it's

476
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: just it's not on the way. So this thing presents

477
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: as well, and she makes note of that. The physician

478
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: does in addition to the petikii and the or those

479
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 1: little blood vessels that are bursting. And many times this

480
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: is happening as a result of just the strain of

481
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: this lack of oxygenation. You're struggling for air in some way,

482
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: the airways being compromised. And you see it a lot

483
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: in strangulations, where you have these little pinprick hemorrhages that

484
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: are taking place in the eyes. It's one of the

485
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: things that we'd look for in cases of strangulation, and

486
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 1: you'll see those presenting and it's quite striking. When you

487
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: observe them and you make note of it, you know

488
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: that there's something has gone on relative to the airway

489
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: being compromised.

490
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 3: According to the autopsy report on Jasmine, she had a

491
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 3: hemorrhage on her brain. And I'm trying to figure out

492
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 3: how that could happen in the bathtub, assuming that's where

493
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 3: she died, Assuming that he put her in the tub

494
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 3: and was trying to drown her in chokery asphyxiator, how

495
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 3: does she end up with a hemorrhage on her brain.

496
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: Well, there's a fight that's going on. She's got little

497
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: scrapes and scratches that are covering her body. Oh and

498
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: by the way, in addition to the duct tape, there

499
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: was a telephone cord that had been tied in a

500
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: knot around her ankles as well.

501
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 3: I forgot to mention that that actually matters when you

502
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 3: think about it. It wasn't why she didn't run. It's

503
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,239
Speaker 3: because she was tied up. Her legs were tied up

504
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 3: so she couldn't run.

505
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: No, she couldn't. There's no way and why you would

506
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: have to restrain a six year old to that point.

507
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: You've got her contained in this specific area.

508
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 3: He has destroyed Levita, he has destroyed Jasmine. He actually

509
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 3: takes a shower where he killed Jasmine. In that same

510
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 3: shower tub, he washes himself off, gets dressed, and goes

511
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 3: to church, picks up the boys, and comes home. Now,

512
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 3: to give you an idea, when they walk in the house,

513
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 3: Levita is in the bedroom with the You know how

514
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 3: a master bedroom has a master bath. Well, that's where

515
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 3: the murder of Levita and Jasmine took place, was in

516
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 3: the bathroom master bedroom and that door is locked. When

517
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 3: Gary Green left, he locked that door. So when the

518
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 3: boys come home, they are told that their mother wanted

519
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 3: him to take them someplace else. He tells Jerome go

520
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 3: take a bath or shower, and so he goes in there.

521
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 3: They don't know that Levita and Jasmine are dead at

522
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 3: this moment, and so Jerome goes to the bath and

523
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 3: to shower, and he hears screaming coming from outside. He

524
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 3: gets out of the tub and that's when he finds

525
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 3: out that Jarrett has been stabbed and Gary Green is

526
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 3: holding a knife to his throat and threatening both boys, saying,

527
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 3: you know he's going to kill them both. These two boys,

528
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 3: nine and twelve years old are able to convince this

529
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 3: monster who has just killed his wife and his stepdaughter,

530
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 3: these little boys are able to convince him to spare

531
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 3: their lives. Don't kill us. We're too young to die.

532
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, too young to die. What kind of fortitude does

533
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: that take in that moment? What level of bravery?

534
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 3: And I should mention that he actually the boys don't

535
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,719
Speaker 3: know what has happened to their mom and sister at

536
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 3: that point, and we're too young to die. Gary says, Okay,

537
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 3: you're not going to die today. By the way, I

538
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 3: need you to go back here to your mother's room.

539
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 3: He unlocks, the door opens up, and that's when the

540
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 3: boys see their mom and their sister. They see mom

541
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 3: in the bedroom, they see the sister on the floor

542
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 3: of the bathroom, and that's when.

543
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: They see the devastation.

544
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 3: They testified to this at trial.

545
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: The destruction of this precious family actually took place in

546
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 1: September two thousand and nine, and it's been since that

547
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: time that gear Green has roughly been incarcerated and has

548
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: been sitting on death row in Huntsville, Texas. That is

549
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: until March seventh, twenty twenty three, when gear Green died

550
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: by the lethal injection at seven o seven pm. I'm

551
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: Josephcott Morgan and this is body Backs