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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I've Never told you production of

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Speaker 2: iHeart Radio, and we are back with another classic. I

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Speaker 2: think it is October now, I mean, who knows when

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Speaker 2: you're listening to it, but I think it's October when

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Speaker 2: it comes out, which means we're going to be releasing

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Speaker 2: some of our classic spooky content.

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Speaker 3: And this one I loved. This one was a really

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Speaker 3: good one.

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Speaker 2: We did about women who are writing horror, who have

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Speaker 2: been writing horror. And one of the reasons I love

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Speaker 2: it is because at the end we had a list

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Speaker 2: of recommendations and we've read some of those books now

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Speaker 2: for our book club.

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Speaker 3: But also I love it because we did a dramatic reading.

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Speaker 3: We are so good at this.

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Speaker 2: I really enjoyed it, though, I mean perhaps obviously it's

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Speaker 2: like right up my alley, but I really really enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: And as always, listeners, if you have like a clue

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Speaker 2: into anything in the public domain that we could do

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Speaker 2: like that, we really enjoy doing it, So just let

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Speaker 2: us know, just let us yes, But in the meantime,

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Speaker 2: please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Anny and Samantha,

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Speaker 2: and welcome to Steph. I never told your production of iHeartRadio, Samantha.

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Speaker 2: You know what the scariest thing you've ever read is?

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Speaker 1: You know what? I used to scare the hell out

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Speaker 1: of myself with the scary stories in the dark. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, I would. I would read all the

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Speaker 1: stories and then not sleep for days. But yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: My old roommate and I, Katie she in college, we

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Speaker 2: were like the sweetest, dorkiest nerds and during October we

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Speaker 2: would light our little Jacqueline and like the little Baby

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Speaker 2: one and we would take turns reading those to each other.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you read it that loud. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I can the imagination alone, like for me to see

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Speaker 1: in my head because one of some of the stories,

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Speaker 1: like the ribbon around her next story, really figuring out

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Speaker 1: the which stories, always freaking out the banchee banchee. Oh

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Speaker 1: my goodness, I was petrified. That obviously still resonates with me.

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Speaker 1: And I know there was a movie. Have you seen

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Speaker 1: the movie for it?

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Speaker 3: I have seen the movie.

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Speaker 1: Is it worth it? Uh?

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Speaker 3: It depends on what your level of worth it is.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to rule in a great, great memory

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Speaker 1: and great book though I don't.

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Speaker 2: Think it would do that. But it's definitely kind. It

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Speaker 2: didn't scare me at all. I was also very very

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Speaker 2: drug drink responsibly when I saw it in theaters and

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Speaker 2: I had to rewatch it because I was like, maybe

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Speaker 2: I just wasn't in the right place, and I was like, no,

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Speaker 2: the story didn't really make sense to me. But I mean,

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Speaker 2: if you have the option and it's streaming anywhere, I'd

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Speaker 2: say go for it.

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Speaker 3: I don't think it'll ruin it for you.

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Speaker 1: What is it something that you've read that's super scary.

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Speaker 2: I was very very scared by pet Cemetery by Stephen King.

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Speaker 2: I remember reading it and just like lying awake and

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Speaker 2: not really sure why I was so scared. And I

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Speaker 2: think that's what he does really well, is he just

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Speaker 2: sets like a atmospheric tone and you can't really pinpoint

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Speaker 2: why you're so scared. But actually, the scariest thing I

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Speaker 2: ever read, and this is so so me as a

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Speaker 2: Silent Hill fan fiction that like, to this day I

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Speaker 2: think of it and.

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Speaker 3: I just my mind is like, don't even think about it.

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Speaker 3: Oh no, it scared me so bad.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing. Yep, all right, now, I've never I've.

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Speaker 2: Never even read a Silent Hill fan fiction since really, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it scared me. Yeah, have you ever written anything like horror?

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Speaker 1: No? I am more like so my if I were

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Speaker 1: to write anything, my genre would be a little more

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Speaker 1: like Southern Gothic tragic type of thing and so not

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Speaker 1: necessarily scary.

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Speaker 2: Oh, we are talking a lot about Gothic today.

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Speaker 1: I love gothic stuff for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you typically why you think scary? I know you

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Speaker 1: do the really sad stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's my go to is sad. Yeah, but I

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Speaker 2: have written. I wrote a book called Silence, and it

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Speaker 2: was I mean, it was pretty typical, like it was

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Speaker 2: about a therapist who's like through her sessions realizing something's

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Speaker 2: very wrong in this town. And then recently I wrote

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Speaker 2: there's a new podcast coming out called Thirteen Days of Halloween,

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Speaker 2: and I wrote thirteen stories because I'm an overt or

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Speaker 2: a masochist.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. They only chose one. I was only

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Speaker 3: supposed to do one.

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Speaker 1: Say did they say write one? And then you wrote

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Speaker 1: thirteen and sent them all to them?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they were like, Okay, this is great, but

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Speaker 2: we have a lot of stuff to go through, so

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Speaker 2: rank them.

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Speaker 1: Annie, any Annie, You're an editor's nightmare.

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Speaker 3: I know, I know, believe me. Do I know that?

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Speaker 3: So look out for that. It should be interesting. Again.

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Speaker 1: My story is called red VELVIDI Yes it's a good one.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, today we were talking about women in horror

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Speaker 2: writing horror because yes, it is October and I just

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Speaker 2: love things that are scary and I'm always ready to

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Speaker 2: talk about these things. And disclaimer for we're gonna give

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Speaker 2: a lot of examples in this episode, but we have

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Speaker 2: not read them all. We have not read all the

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Speaker 2: examples we're gonna cite, and cannot speak for their depiction

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Speaker 2: of women, race, queer, ableism, all that intersexual stuff. Also,

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Speaker 2: we are focusing largely on horror written in the Western world,

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Speaker 2: but I would absolutely love to come back and do

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Speaker 2: another one looking at horror in different places.

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Speaker 3: In women writing horror, I.

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Speaker 1: Bet it'd be so interesting. The legends that they have

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Speaker 1: and the kind of like the folklore that's behind those legends.

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Speaker 1: I would love to hear about that me too. It's

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Speaker 1: like things like agin, Oh my goodness, that's very stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And if any listeners has anything we should pursue

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Speaker 2: in that area, or any examples to share with us,

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Speaker 2: oh my gosh, please send them in.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and just to put this in there we

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Speaker 1: are for our monthly reading. Just to go ahead and

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Speaker 1: let everybody get a heads up reading The Bloody Chamber.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, which is by a female horror writer.

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Speaker 3: Who is it, Angela Carter?

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Speaker 1: You always like Alicia Watts. Nope, give me our new name.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we were reading The Bloody Chamber by Angela Carter,

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Speaker 1: which is an older horror story. So if you want

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Speaker 1: to pick that up and join us, just to let

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's pretty short. Neither of us have read

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Speaker 2: it before, so we're going to go on this journey together.

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Speaker 2: Who knows what it will be like. It was recommended

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Speaker 2: to me by actually past host Kristen Caroline mentioned it

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Speaker 2: in one of their episodes, so I'm excited to check

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Speaker 2: it out. But in the meantime, all right, let's talk

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Speaker 2: about women in horror fiction and what exactly is horror fiction.

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Speaker 2: It turns out that that's sort of a difficult thing

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Speaker 2: to pin down. Some people say it's more of an emotion,

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Speaker 2: more of a feeling, than a definition. One of the

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Speaker 2: founders of the Horror Writers Association, Robert McCammon, tried to

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Speaker 2: define it in nineteen eighty six, though with this, horror

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Speaker 2: fiction can be a guide through a nightmare world entered

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Speaker 2: freely and by the reader's own will. And since horror

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Speaker 2: can be many many things that go in many many directions,

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Speaker 2: that guided nightmare ride can sho educate, illuminate, threaten, shriek,

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Speaker 2: and whisper before it lets the readers loose.

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Speaker 1: We I like that, And as we've talked about time

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Speaker 1: and time again, horror is often a reflection of what

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Speaker 1: we fear on a societal level. And because we are

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Speaker 1: so afraid of women and women's bodies, as we recently

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Speaker 1: talked about, women are definitely tied to the genre. It

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Speaker 1: makes sense that women authors have been pioneers and writing

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Speaker 1: horror fiction. Despite this, many of the authors that get

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Speaker 1: lifted up as the best in horror are, of course men.

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Speaker 1: And if you look at horror anthologies, out of fifteen stories,

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Speaker 1: maybe one to three are written by women, which is

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Speaker 1: so unfortunate if any of them are at.

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Speaker 2: All, right, And I think if you ask the average

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Speaker 2: person to name three authors who are writing horror, they

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Speaker 2: would probably all be men.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. The top ones in my head, for

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Speaker 1: sure come up as men.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And many of the accounts of women writing in horror

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Speaker 2: describe not only having difficulty getting published, but this layer

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Speaker 2: of over analysis when it comes to subtext, both from

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Speaker 2: the reader and the writer.

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Speaker 3: A woman can't just write horror. It has to have

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Speaker 3: some hidden man hating.

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Speaker 2: Theme, even if that's not there, like, that's fine if

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Speaker 2: it is, but people just assume. And therefore it's like

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Speaker 2: women's literature as opposed to horror. And not only that,

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Speaker 2: there's this question of what kind of woman would write horror.

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Speaker 2: Women describe being judged as weird or disturbed if they

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Speaker 2: were writing horror, whereas male authors would be viewed as

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Speaker 2: cool or brave, like bucking the system, and these judgments

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Speaker 2: following them to job interviews. At least one account said

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Speaker 2: she an interviewer had found that she'd written this horror

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Speaker 2: story and there was definitely already this layer of well

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Speaker 2: I don't know about this woman.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Horror stories or stories mean to bring a sense

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Speaker 1: of fear. I've been told for as long as people

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Speaker 1: have been telling stories, and those are the best stories,

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Speaker 1: the ones that kind of become legends. And a lot

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Speaker 1: of these first horror stories weren't told for fun necessarily,

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Speaker 1: but as of course cautionary tales don't go alone in

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Speaker 1: the dark, or you might get eaten. They may also

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Speaker 1: feature a creature, witches or ghosts to explain things that

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Speaker 1: people don't understand at that time. Do people understand those

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Speaker 1: things at this time? Do we really understand creature witches were?

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Speaker 2: Well, no, it's just sort of like, you know, like bansheese.

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Speaker 2: They think was that sound coming from swamps? Or maybe

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Speaker 2: it was a screech owl? Yeah, but of course it's

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Speaker 2: bancheese now that too. Though to be fair, I do

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Speaker 2: assume ghost first almost always.

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Speaker 1: As you know, Samantha, I think you're correct. We're definitely haunted.

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Speaker 1: These stories make up a great deal of our foundational

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Speaker 1: folk stories, which again we would love to hear the

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Speaker 1: international levels because I can't imagine like how it transitions

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Speaker 1: from culture to culture. And ancient Greek tales told of witches, vampires,

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Speaker 1: and monsters, yes, and so did religious texts, which we

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Speaker 1: know maybe more like demons and such.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: One of my favorite things I've ever learned is that

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Speaker 2: almost every culture has a vampire legend, and almost everyone,

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Speaker 2: I think, in everyone except for one vampires don't like garlic.

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Speaker 2: And all these stories came separately, like originated in separate

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Speaker 2: places at separate times.

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Speaker 1: Fascinating h.

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Speaker 2: Horror for horrors or curiosity's sake, emerged in Western literature

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Speaker 2: in the eighteenth century with the Gothic novel seventeen sixty

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Speaker 2: four novel The Castle Otranto by Horace Walpole often gets

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Speaker 2: the credit for cementing the genre's legitimacy. So maybe not

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Speaker 2: the first book or the first short story, but the

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Speaker 2: first one people were like, oh, this is a.

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Speaker 3: Book and it deserves respect.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, and France we see the rise

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Speaker 2: of Roman noir, black novels and German shutter novels, which

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Speaker 2: I love. And women have been writing horror since the

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Speaker 2: very beginning, but they haven't always gotten the attention or

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Speaker 2: the credit. And we'll get into that and some famous

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Speaker 2: historical examples after we take a quick break for word

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Speaker 2: from our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: And we're back.

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Speaker 3: Thank you sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's get into history. Historically, a lot of

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Speaker 1: horror written by women has been lost to time and

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Speaker 1: not preserved in the same way mel works were, of course,

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Speaker 1: and many of these works were not discovered until long

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Speaker 1: after the author's death, usually when a male writer of

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Speaker 1: acclaim highlights the story some of these authors are believed

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Speaker 1: have literally starved to death. However, it was not all

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Speaker 1: doom and gloom. A lot of women succeeded in the

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Speaker 1: realm of writing horror, particularly gothic horror, as the genre

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Speaker 1: emerged in gang popularity.

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Speaker 2: And this popularity was only possible due to the introduction

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Speaker 2: of new technologies that allowed for the printing of cheap

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Speaker 2: magazines and newspapers. To distribute these stories to a wider

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Speaker 2: audience and to fill these pages required a lot of stories,

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Speaker 2: and in the early days, women were largely the ones

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Speaker 2: providing these stories. It was an appealing career path for

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Speaker 2: women who didn't have a lot of opportunities at the time.

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Speaker 2: Though the world of publishing was largely dominated by men,

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Speaker 2: women could still get works published by writing under a

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Speaker 2: gender neutral or masculine sounding pen name, or anonymously or

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Speaker 2: with a missus so people knew you had.

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Speaker 3: A husband to keep you in line. You weren't such

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Speaker 3: a big threat.

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Speaker 2: And not to say that some women didn't do those things.

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Speaker 2: It was just easier to get published by doing those things.

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Speaker 2: Not only that, strict genres weren't so much a thing yet,

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Speaker 2: so there was a lot of freedom to try all

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Speaker 2: kinds of stories, like you could write a horror story

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Speaker 2: one day and a romantic story the other day, and

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Speaker 2: nobody really questioned, oh, you should stick to your line.

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Speaker 3: And these women did.

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Speaker 2: Even within the horror genre ghosts where wells, vampires, banshees,

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Speaker 2: cosmicd mad scientists, dark dread inducing stories, Several of the

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Speaker 2: horror stories written by women from this time did include

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Speaker 2: feminine themes womanhood, social and class movements, feminism, domesticity, motherhood, children, childlessness,

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Speaker 2: and the self worth of childless women. All this stuff

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Speaker 2: in these early horror stories. Examples include What Was the

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Speaker 2: Matter by Elizabeth Stuart Phelps, The Dream Baby by Olivia

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Speaker 2: Howard Dunbar, The Giant Wistaria by Charlotte Perkins Gilman, The

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Speaker 2: Wind in the Rosebush by Mary Wilkins Freeman, Twilight by

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Speaker 2: Marjorie Bowen, Transmigration by Dora Sigerson Shorter, and so so,

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Speaker 2: so many more. A lot of these are in the

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Speaker 2: public domain, by the way, if you'd like to go

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Speaker 2: check them out. At this time, most horror stories were

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Speaker 2: written by women. The Gothic genre owes its existence to women,

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Speaker 2: and the audience was primarily women too. In the early

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Speaker 2: days of its existence, Gothic horror was dismissed as essentially

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Speaker 2: chick lit, which still problematic to dismiss chick lit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, neither is good. Neither is good. So many of

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Speaker 1: these women were able to support a family and fairly

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Speaker 1: quickly by writing, especially in the wake of a loss

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Speaker 1: of a husband who previously provided support. Anne Radcliffe, who

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Speaker 1: wrote primarily gothic fiction, was a top paid author in

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Speaker 1: the seventeen nineties. Her most famous work was a supernatural

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Speaker 1: tale following a female protagonist in a castle called The

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Speaker 1: Mysteries of Udolpho. Some consider this the first bestseller, which

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Speaker 1: maybe that should be on our list. Most of her

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Speaker 1: works did focus on dynamic, interesting female characters, which of

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Speaker 1: course was a rarity for the time, which even is

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Speaker 1: a rarity to this day. For some unknown reason, she

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Speaker 1: stopped writing at the age of thirty two, and there's

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Speaker 1: several probably untrue stories around her life and death, which

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Speaker 1: is even better like I'm like how do you not

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Speaker 1: love that? Like?

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Speaker 3: Or of mystery around her.

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Speaker 1: So from see you in y Brooklyn quote. Little was

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Speaker 1: or is known about Radcliffe's life, so not surprisingly apocryphal

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Speaker 1: story sprang.

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Speaker 3: Up about her.

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Speaker 1: It was reported that she had gone mad as a

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Speaker 1: result of our dreadful imagination and been confined to an asylum.

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Speaker 1: That she had been captured as a spy in Paris,

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Speaker 1: or that she ate rare por chop before retiring to

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Speaker 1: stimulate nightmares for her novels, and several times she was

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Speaker 1: falsely removed to be dead.

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Speaker 3: Sounds like a fascinating woman.

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Speaker 1: I mean, why have we not talked about her? We

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Speaker 1: talked about Emily Dickinson all the time with her pasts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to know why did people think she.

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Speaker 3: Was a spy in Paris?

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Speaker 1: That is such a stretch from eating raw pork.

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Speaker 2: To have nightmares. And I also just love dreadful imagination.

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Speaker 2: That's so good.

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Speaker 1: It's so good.

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Speaker 2: But okay, no history of women writing horror would be

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Speaker 2: complete without mentioning Mary Shelley. In eighteen eighteen, Shelley published Frankenstein,

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Speaker 2: a novel that continues to influence our pop culture to

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Speaker 2: this day.

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Speaker 3: I was thinking about this.

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Speaker 2: It had such a huge impact, you still, like, I

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Speaker 2: still hear it mentioned, like just recently I heard it

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Speaker 2: on a like late night talk show, And then I

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Speaker 2: was thinking about Darth Vader in because of Forset in

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Speaker 2: Revenge of the Sith and how when he comes to life.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's like Rankenstein.

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Speaker 1: Yeah it's still and it's still a popular costume. Like

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Speaker 1: it has lived for sure. Oh yeah, it loves on

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Speaker 1: that one.

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Speaker 2: Shelley was eighteen when she wrote this, and allegedly she

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Speaker 2: wrote it in response to Lord Byron's ghost story challenge.

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Speaker 2: So this is kind of a legendary tale in itself

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Speaker 2: that after Rain kept Byron and Shelley inside with three

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Speaker 2: other vacationing friends, they told each other ghost stories, and

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Speaker 2: then Byron was like, I challenge all of the to

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Speaker 2: write a scarier ghost story than these, and she and

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Speaker 2: one other person did. The fact that this was written

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Speaker 2: by a woman did cause surprise is no one, I'm

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Speaker 2: sure a fair share of controversy in its day. The

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Speaker 2: British Critics eighteen eighteen review of the book claimed quote,

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Speaker 2: if our authoress can forget the gentleness of her sex,

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Speaker 2: it is no reason why we should, and we shall

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Speaker 2: therefore dismiss the novel without further comments.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, excellently, said Samantha, so verbose you are still The

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Speaker 2: book was successful and earned her the nickname the Mother

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Speaker 2: of Horror, which is an excellent nickname. Many consider this

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Speaker 2: the first science fiction novel, an epic pseudoscience tale about

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Speaker 2: a monster destroying its creator.

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Speaker 3: That fateful rainy.

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Speaker 2: Day, by the way, also allegedly led to Paul Dory's

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Speaker 2: The Vampire or the Vampire perhaps in eighteen nineteen, and

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Speaker 2: the nineteen eighty six movie Gothic. And there's also the

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Speaker 2: movie Mary Shelley. Rulu keeps telling me I should watch?

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Speaker 1: Is that the one with Julia Roberts.

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Speaker 2: There's probably more than one, this one. I think this

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Speaker 2: one has Ellie Fanning.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, there's one recently.

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Speaker 3: It's like twenty thirteen. Oh wow, look at that.

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Speaker 1: And I think al Pacino, No, no, no, al Pacino

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Speaker 1: Robert de Niro is one of them. Two wow girl, Okay, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So in the nineteenth century, Irish writer Charlotte Riddle turned

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Speaker 1: out several short stories and novella's, primarily about ghosts and

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Speaker 1: haunted house. Originally she published under masculine pen names like S. G.

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Speaker 1: Trafford and RVM Sparling, and she was quite prolific and

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Speaker 1: popular at the time, and she started writing as a

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Speaker 1: means to support her mother, which is even better.

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Speaker 2: And we have Marie Correlli. She was the top paid

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Speaker 2: author in the eighteen nineties. Writing was one avenue that

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Speaker 2: women could receive pay equal to men's, particularly if their

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Speaker 2: pen name was again anonymous or allowed people in some

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Speaker 2: way to believe that they were men. Two women who

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Speaker 2: turned to writing out of dire financial need later became

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Speaker 2: someone the most well known of the time, Charlotte Perkins

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Speaker 2: Gilman and Francis Hodgson Burnett.

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Speaker 1: And we can't forget two of my favorites, Emily and

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Speaker 1: Charlotte Bronte, who wrote Weathering Heights and Jane Eyre and

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Speaker 1: yes read both of them. Jane are is probably my

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Speaker 1: favorite on top on the other hand, but it's delightful

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Speaker 1: and our classic examples of the Gothic pieces from this

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Speaker 1: period and very haunting.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, lots of atmosphere, so.

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Speaker 1: Much atmosphere, how many with names like Hathecliffe come on

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Speaker 1: and fire, so many fires. But anyway, people were really

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Speaker 1: concerned about women reading this material. I think it was

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Speaker 1: mentioned in the fan fiction two parter right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they were worried that it was giving us

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Speaker 2: emotions of.

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Speaker 1: So many emotions. Jane Austin's eighteen seventeen worked Northhangar Abbey

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Speaker 1: mockd women's love of these books. I will say there

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Speaker 1: was this weird rival against the Bronte sisters at Austin.

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Speaker 1: There was because I love both of them, all of them.

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Speaker 1: I love all of them. But she did mock the

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Speaker 1: love of these books, with protagonist Katherine Morland imagining all

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Speaker 1: sorts of monsters thanks to reading too many horrid books

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Speaker 1: and giving to her feminine curiosity. The idea slowly to

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Speaker 1: call that women were way too fragile for horror and gothic,

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Speaker 1: of course, and a genre that had once been perceived

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Speaker 1: as feminine was masculinized. The anxiety wasn't confined to women

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Speaker 1: reading it, but to women writing it, as a lot

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Speaker 1: of the themes consciously or not reflected anxiety around the

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Speaker 1: patriarchy and were feminists in nature Oh no, yeah, oh.

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Speaker 3: No, indeed.

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Speaker 2: And there was also a layer of oh, you poor thing,

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Speaker 2: like you're silly enough that you'll believe this, Yes, you're

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Speaker 2: not smart enough to know that this is in reality.

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Speaker 2: The link between feminism and horror strengthened by the end

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Speaker 2: of the eighteenth century, and women writers use their stories

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Speaker 2: to critique society and push for social change, particularly around

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Speaker 2: issues like motherhood, health, and hysteria. Despite the plethora of

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Speaker 2: examples of women's short stories, Gothic novels written by men

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Speaker 2: are what we remember from this period.

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Speaker 3: I had a really hard time.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, there are plenty of examples, but when I went

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Speaker 2: to just a page that was highlighting I'd say probably

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Speaker 2: one hundred, almost all of them were men, no joke.

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Speaker 3: There are several reasons why this could be.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps novels receive more respect and attention than short stories,

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Speaker 2: perhaps because these stories dealt with women's and social issues,

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Speaker 2: and thus we're categorized as women's writing instead of Gothic

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Speaker 2: our heart, which again is a problem that remains to

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Speaker 2: this day. But the point is women were there at

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Speaker 2: the very beginning, and they were writing most of us,

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Speaker 2: and then until society was like, nope, that's not ladylike and.

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Speaker 3: Men should do it.

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Speaker 2: And now it's a respected genre because men are doing

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Speaker 2: it and should be paid more for it. Right, yep, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: Well that's about our history. But we do have some

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Speaker 2: more modern day examples we wanted to share with you.

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Speaker 2: But first we have one more quick break for a

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Speaker 2: word from our sponsor, and we're back.

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Speaker 3: Thank you sponsor.

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Speaker 2: So Unfortunately, in our more modern times, there are still

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Speaker 2: more men writing horror than women, but there are women

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Speaker 2: producing some amazing stuff, and this is slowly changing that

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Speaker 2: it's not super weird that women are writing horror, And

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Speaker 2: we thought we'd leave you with a few examples if

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Speaker 2: you want to check them out, starting with Shirley Jackson,

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Speaker 2: who wrote things like The Haunting of Hill House, which

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Speaker 2: I know a lot of you probably familiar with the

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Speaker 2: Netflix show, Daphne du Maurier, whose works were adapted into

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Speaker 2: films twelve times, including several by Hitchcock, like The Birds

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Speaker 2: and Nicholas Roeggs Don't Look Now, which we mentioned in

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Speaker 2: our which is episode about hocus Pocus and the Witches.

440
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,960
Speaker 2: Joyce Carol Oates, a Pulitzerprise wedding author who has written

441
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 2: over one hundred books.

442
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 1: Right, of course, Octavia Butler, who you love?

443
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love Octavia Butler. Yes, it's one of the

444
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: few times woll no, that's not true at all. I

445
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 2: was going to say, it's one of the few times

446
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 2: that in assign book became one of my favorite books.

447
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 2: I've actually generally liked every book I've been assigned to read,

448
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,160
Speaker 2: but I was assigned to read some of her books

449
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 2: in college, her science fiction books, and I loved them

450
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 2: and I still love them to this day.

451
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And she has a lot of horror in

452
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: her science fiction, which I do feel like go hand

453
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: in hand oftentimes. And she frequently addressed the horrors of

454
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 1: systemic racism in her work, which is awesome as needs

455
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: to be aweso an Anami author. Things like The Body

456
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,239
Speaker 1: and now You're one of us Lisa Tuttle, which, by

457
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: the way, I thought you were saying Lisa Turtle, and

458
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: I was really caught up and slayed by the bill anyway,

459
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: Lisa Tuttle and eighties horror fiction writer who also wrote

460
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: Encyclopedia of Infeminism, Yeah, which we might need to read.

461
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. Then there's Linda Addison, who in two thousand and

462
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 2: one became the first black woman to be awarded the

463
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 2: Bram Stoker Award for her work Consumed Reduced to Beautiful

464
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 2: Gray Ashes, And in twenty seventeen, the Horror Writers Association

465
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 2: shows her for their Lifetime Achievement Award, which is in

466
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 2: the horror world that's like the tough Yeah.

467
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Also, I'm just gonna put out.

468
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 2: There, I tried to get to the bottom of I

469
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 2: don't know, have you heard the rumor that branch Stoker

470
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: didn't really write Dracula but a woman did?

471
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: Yes, actually did.

472
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 2: I tried to get to the bottom of that, and

473
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 2: I could not find the answer. But we are aware

474
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 2: of it.

475
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: Right. There's also like the rumor, well not the rumor

476
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 1: that yes, he did write it, but because it was

477
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: legend and had already been there, that there were other

478
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: rights that he took from.

479
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 3: Right, right, right, very r right. Yeah, we mentioned it.

480
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that feels like centuries ago in our serial

481
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 2: Killer episode because we talked about kind of the inspiration

482
00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: around right, and there was a woman behind that, right, but.

483
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:01,479
Speaker 3: Anyway, Uh.

484
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: There's also Karma Karmen Maria Machado, author of Her Body

485
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: and other Parties. And then there's Tanana Reevedo, who, on

486
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 2: top of writing horror, also teaches classes on it, including

487
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: a UCLA class called the Sunken Place, Racism Survival and

488
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 2: Black Horror ascidic.

489
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,959
Speaker 3: We need her on the show, sounds awesome.

490
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 2: And then there's Helen Oyaami, author of things like White

491
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 2: Is for Witching and Icarus Girl.

492
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: Right, and I guess we should put in there. Anne

493
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: Rice because yes, she did write many of the vampire series. Yeah,

494
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: and she's one of the probably more popular ones because

495
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: of those vampire series. As you know, Tomkus and Brad

496
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: Pitt comes together to suce Kristen Steward. I don't remember.

497
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:48,959
Speaker 3: Kirsten Dunst.

498
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: Oh whatever. See, there's so many vampire movies and I

499
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: love vampire genres. Please don't hate me. So but yeah,

500
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: Kristin Dunce there it is, and her young self. But yeah,

501
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 1: so we have to put her in there because she

502
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: did she definitely create a whole level of sexy, sexy vampire.

503
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,879
Speaker 1: Well no, I mean, vampire has always been sexualized, but

504
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: in this level when you have iconic stars like Tom

505
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: Cruise and Brad Pitt playing the main characters, you can't help.

506
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: But notice right, no, okay, I stop.

507
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 2: Now, I've never read an Anna Rice book, but I would.

508
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 2: I mean, I would definitely say she would be one

509
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 2: of the first that if you were trying to list

510
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 2: popular horror writers people would think of her at first woman,

511
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 2: I would say a lot of times. And she did

512
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 2: do a lot to popularize specifically, Yeah, vampire horror.

513
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: That's the whole series.

514
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: Yep, for all the older examples we mentioned, most, if

515
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 2: not all, of them, are featured in the book Weird

516
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 2: Women Classics Supernatural Fiction by Groundbreaking Female Writers eighteen fifty

517
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 2: two to nineteen twenty three by Leslie s.

518
00:27:58,760 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 3: Klinger and Lisa Morton.

519
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,479
Speaker 2: So you can go check that out too, And I'm

520
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: so happy.

521
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 3: I feel like I have a whole repertoire books I

522
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 3: want to check out.

523
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: No, yeah, for sure. I know. When we were talking

524
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: again about our monthly eating, You're like, I have a

525
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 1: whole list. I think we should read one of these.

526
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, cool, cool, cool, let's do this.

527
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I was reading the the synopsis for a

528
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: lot of these, and everyone I.

529
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: Was like, ooh ooh, I think that was good and original.

530
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 3: For sure, I gotta do it. I gotta do it.

531
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And for this one, since it is October,

532
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 2: we thought we would close out.

533
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 3: With a reading.

534
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: Oh, any what have been done to us?

535
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 3: A dramatic reading?

536
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: Oh, it's a dramatic Okay, here we go. Yeah, so

537
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: we are going to read from Mary Shelley's Rankenstein. So

538
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 1: go ahead and light your candle, sit in the dark,

539
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: and here we go. So how we start? Yes, it

540
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: was on a dreary night of November that beheld the

541
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: accomplishments my toils. With an anxiety that almost amounted to agony.

542
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 1: I collected the instruments of life around me, that I

543
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: might infuse a spark of being into the lifeless thing

544
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: that lay at my feet. It was already one in

545
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: the morning. The rain pattered dismally against the panes, and

546
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 1: my candle was nearly burnt out, when by the glimmer

547
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: of the half extinguished light, I saw the dull yellow

548
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: eye of the creature open. It breathed hard, and a

549
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: convulsive motion agitated its limbs.

550
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 2: How can I describe my emotions at this catastrophe, or

551
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: how delineate the wretch whom with such infinite pains and

552
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,479
Speaker 2: care I had endeavored to form. His limbs were in proportion,

553
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 2: and I had selected his features as beautiful, beautiful, great God.

554
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 2: His yellow skin scarcely covered the work of muscles and

555
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: arteries beneath. His hair was of illustrious black and flowing,

556
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 2: his teeth of a pearly whiteness. But these luxuriances only

557
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 2: formed a more horrid contrast with his watery eyes that

558
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 2: seemed almost of the same color as the dun white

559
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: sockets in which they were set, his shriveled complexion and

560
00:29:58,760 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: straight black lips.

561
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: The different accidents of life are not so changeable as

562
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: the feelings of human nature. I had worked hard for

563
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: nearly two years for the sole purpose of infusing life

564
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: into an inanimate body. For this I had deprived myself

565
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: of rust and health. I had desired it with an

566
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: artword that far exceeded moderation. But now that I had finished,

567
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: the beauty of the dream vanished and breathless, horror and

568
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: disgust filled my heart. Unable to endure the aspect of

569
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: the beating I had created, I rushed out of the

570
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 1: room and continued a long time traversing my bedchamber, unable

571
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: to compose my mind to sleep. At length, lassitude succeeded

572
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: to the tumult I had buried endured, and I threw

573
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: myself on the bed in my clothes, endeavoring to seek

574
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: a few moments of forgetfulness.

575
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 3: But it was in vain.

576
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 2: I slept, indeed, but I was disturbed by the wildest dreams.

577
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 2: I thought I saw Elizabeth in the bloom of health,

578
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: walking in the streets of Ingolstadt, delighted and surprised, I

579
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: embraced her, but as I imprinted the first kiss on

580
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 2: her lips, they became livid with the hue of death.

581
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: Her features appeared to change, and I thought that I

582
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 2: had held the corpse of my dead mother in my arms.

583
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: A stroud enveloped her form, and I saw graveworms crawling

584
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: in the folds of the flannel. I started from my

585
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: sleep with horror. A cold dew covered my forehead. My

586
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 2: teeth chattered, and every limb became convulsed. When by the

587
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: dim and yellow light of the moon, as it forced

588
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 2: its way through the window shutters, I beheld the wretch,

589
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 2: the miserable monster whom I had created. He held up

590
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 2: the curtain of the bed, and his eyes, if eyes

591
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 2: they may be called, were fixed on me. His jaws

592
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 2: opened and he muttered some and articulate sounds, while a

593
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 2: grin wrinkled his cheeks. He might have spoken, but I

594
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 2: did not hear. One hand was stretched out seemingly to

595
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 2: detain me, but I escaped and rushed downstairs. I took

596
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 2: refuge in the courtyard belonging to the house which I inhabited,

597
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: where I remained during the rest of the night, walking

598
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: up and down in the greatest agitation, listening attentively, catching

599
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 2: and fearing each sound as if it were to announce

600
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 2: the approach of the demonaical corpse to which I had

601
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 2: so miserably given life.

602
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: Oh, no mortal could support the horror of that countenance.

603
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: A mummy again, and dude with animation, it could not

604
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: be so hideous as that wretch I had gazed on

605
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: him while unfinished. He was ugly then, But when these

606
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: muscles and joints were rendered capable of motion, it became

607
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: a thing such as even Dante could not have conceived.

608
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: I passed the night wretchedly. Sometimes I poll speak so

609
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 2: quickly and hardly that I felt the palpitation of every artery.

610
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 2: At others I nearly sank to the ground through languor

611
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 2: and extreme weakness. Mingled with this horror, I felt the

612
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 2: bitterness of disappointment. Dreams that had been my food and

613
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 2: pleasant rest for so long a space were now become

614
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: a hell to me. And the change was so rapid,

615
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: the overthrow so complete. Finn plas Pla Samantha.

616
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: I remember reading this in my ninth or tenth grade

617
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 1: AP English class, and loving, loving, because we did literature. Yeah,

618
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: European literature as r EP English class I think, and

619
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: I loved this book and loved everything about this book

620
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: because it was so different. Don't get me wrong, I

621
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: still love Jane Austin, I still love the Bronte Sisters,

622
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: but this one was unique in itself. It was so Yeah,

623
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: it was so small, it was a short read, but

624
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: it was perfect.

625
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 2: I like how it's structured too, with different like there's

626
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 2: letters being written to different people and the point of

627
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: view switches. And yes, this is in the public domain,

628
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: so if you would like to read it, you absolutely can,

629
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 2: and we hope that that gave you a little taste

630
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: of something spooky for the season. If you have any

631
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: horror book suggestions or short stories or whatever, please send

632
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 2: them our way. Our email is Stuffidia Mom Stuff at

633
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 2: iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Instagram at

634
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 2: Stepmom Never Told You, are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.

635
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: Thanks as always to our super producer Andrew Howard.

636
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: Happy Halloween, and.

637
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 3: Thanks to you for listening. Steph.

638
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: I've Never Told You is a protection of iHeartRadio. For

639
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

640
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Yeah,