1 00:00:15,264 --> 00:00:25,424 Speaker 1: Pushkin. This week's story of the Week is Aj Jacobs 2 00:00:25,504 --> 00:00:29,344 Speaker 1: and his story Party Like It's seventeen eighty nine, My 3 00:00:29,544 --> 00:00:36,824 Speaker 1: weird and enlightening month living strictly by the constitution. Back 4 00:00:36,864 --> 00:00:39,664 Speaker 1: in the late nineteen nineties, I had this tremendous idea. 5 00:00:39,904 --> 00:00:43,184 Speaker 1: More importantly, I had an expense account. So I invited 6 00:00:43,264 --> 00:00:47,224 Speaker 1: this group of journalists to an overpriced restaurant in Midtown Manhattan. 7 00:00:47,384 --> 00:00:50,224 Speaker 1: And these were journalists who wrote first person stories in 8 00:00:50,304 --> 00:00:54,784 Speaker 1: which they did incredibly stupid things just for attention my people. 9 00:00:55,304 --> 00:00:59,024 Speaker 1: I called it the Stunt Journalist Association. One of the 10 00:00:59,064 --> 00:01:01,904 Speaker 1: members was Aj Jacobs, who would go on to be 11 00:01:02,264 --> 00:01:05,784 Speaker 1: the most successful stunt journalist of our time. AJ was 12 00:01:05,864 --> 00:01:09,584 Speaker 1: brave in ways that honestly I couldn't imagine. While I 13 00:01:09,624 --> 00:01:13,064 Speaker 1: was earning my first boy Scout badge at age thirty six, 14 00:01:13,664 --> 00:01:17,144 Speaker 1: AJ wrote an article called I Think You're Fat, in 15 00:01:17,224 --> 00:01:20,864 Speaker 1: which he embraced the practice of radical honesty. In another one, 16 00:01:21,024 --> 00:01:24,424 Speaker 1: he outsourced his entire life to an assistant in India 17 00:01:24,504 --> 00:01:27,464 Speaker 1: who read his kids his bedtime stories and argued with 18 00:01:27,464 --> 00:01:30,424 Speaker 1: his wife for him. So I wasn't all surprised when 19 00:01:30,464 --> 00:01:34,064 Speaker 1: Aj decided to live as strictly as possible, according to 20 00:01:34,104 --> 00:01:45,464 Speaker 1: the rules of the US Constitution. Writing his hard who's 21 00:01:45,504 --> 00:01:48,904 Speaker 1: got that kind of time when you're already busy trying 22 00:01:48,904 --> 00:01:51,704 Speaker 1: to be john Stein until it turns on a mic 23 00:01:52,064 --> 00:01:55,384 Speaker 1: made it twiddles a knob because a journalist Rand has 24 00:01:55,424 --> 00:02:00,384 Speaker 1: got in that jewel job puditories, single story. Just listen 25 00:02:00,464 --> 00:02:07,744 Speaker 1: to smart people speaking conversation. Filming information is a story up. 26 00:02:19,464 --> 00:02:23,264 Speaker 1: Aj Jacobs, the nicest man in journalism. Thank you for 27 00:02:23,304 --> 00:02:26,704 Speaker 1: being on this podcast. Are you kidding? Thank you? Joel? 28 00:02:26,744 --> 00:02:28,584 Speaker 1: Oh my god, of course you would say that that's 29 00:02:28,744 --> 00:02:32,544 Speaker 1: very AJ. Okay. So you've lived according to the rules 30 00:02:32,584 --> 00:02:34,744 Speaker 1: of the Bible. Now you're going to live according to 31 00:02:34,784 --> 00:02:38,664 Speaker 1: the rules of the Constitution. Now what gave you this idea? 32 00:02:38,904 --> 00:02:42,544 Speaker 1: I had actually had this idea for a long time 33 00:02:42,824 --> 00:02:45,144 Speaker 1: because I did the book Living by the Rules of 34 00:02:45,224 --> 00:02:48,544 Speaker 1: the Bible, which was very similar. It was sort of 35 00:02:49,104 --> 00:02:54,304 Speaker 1: taking literalism to the extreme and showing it's You grew 36 00:02:54,304 --> 00:02:58,944 Speaker 1: a beard that was incredible looking. You went to the park. 37 00:02:58,984 --> 00:03:00,544 Speaker 1: I remember, I love this book. You went to the 38 00:03:00,544 --> 00:03:03,704 Speaker 1: park and stone someone. I did small stones though I 39 00:03:03,744 --> 00:03:06,664 Speaker 1: didn't actually you know, yeah, you whipped out a little bit, 40 00:03:06,704 --> 00:03:11,104 Speaker 1: but still right, and it says you should not wear 41 00:03:11,184 --> 00:03:14,424 Speaker 1: clothes of two different kinds of fabrics. That's in Leviticus, 42 00:03:14,544 --> 00:03:16,744 Speaker 1: so I had to get rid of my polycotton blends. 43 00:03:17,064 --> 00:03:20,984 Speaker 1: So I'd always thought that the similar approach could work 44 00:03:20,984 --> 00:03:26,264 Speaker 1: with the Constitution because it's same debate about originalism following 45 00:03:26,264 --> 00:03:31,864 Speaker 1: the literal words of the original founders versus this living constitution, 46 00:03:31,904 --> 00:03:35,264 Speaker 1: the evolving meaning, and people have a religious kind of 47 00:03:35,304 --> 00:03:38,144 Speaker 1: feeling about that document. People talk about it in very 48 00:03:38,464 --> 00:03:43,304 Speaker 1: reverential tones. Absolutely, it's sacred, sacred, that's the word. Yeah. 49 00:03:43,984 --> 00:03:47,624 Speaker 1: There are two main ways to interpret the Constitution. There's originalism, 50 00:03:47,704 --> 00:03:49,664 Speaker 1: where you just stick to what the words on the 51 00:03:49,664 --> 00:03:54,824 Speaker 1: page mean. Generally, conservatives prefer this kind of just following 52 00:03:54,944 --> 00:03:58,504 Speaker 1: orders style. Liberals, with their desperate need to embrace the 53 00:03:58,504 --> 00:04:03,064 Speaker 1: newest trends, prefer a style called pragmatism. That's where you 54 00:04:03,104 --> 00:04:06,424 Speaker 1: figure out how the idea behind the words can be 55 00:04:06,464 --> 00:04:10,224 Speaker 1: applied to issues that didn't exist back now. For instance, 56 00:04:10,264 --> 00:04:13,024 Speaker 1: the freeze in the Constitution, which is my favorite, which 57 00:04:13,104 --> 00:04:15,984 Speaker 1: is the fact that Congress can grant letters of mark 58 00:04:16,144 --> 00:04:20,024 Speaker 1: and reprisal, which literally means they can pay pirates to 59 00:04:20,064 --> 00:04:22,904 Speaker 1: fight for them, has been used today to mean that 60 00:04:22,904 --> 00:04:26,544 Speaker 1: the government can hire hackers to attack cyber criminals. What 61 00:04:26,664 --> 00:04:29,184 Speaker 1: made you finally decide to do this? Yeah, I never 62 00:04:29,224 --> 00:04:31,824 Speaker 1: really had the passion to pursue it. And then came 63 00:04:31,864 --> 00:04:35,344 Speaker 1: this last Supreme Court term and that scared me. That 64 00:04:35,544 --> 00:04:39,824 Speaker 1: freaked me out because they really went hard on originalism 65 00:04:39,864 --> 00:04:44,024 Speaker 1: in a scary way, and they overturned rov Wade. As 66 00:04:44,064 --> 00:04:48,704 Speaker 1: it is, I'm learning so much on this podcast. It's 67 00:04:48,704 --> 00:04:52,944 Speaker 1: a news show too. Oh my god. That's but it 68 00:04:53,064 --> 00:04:55,704 Speaker 1: also you know, the gun rights, it also affected the 69 00:04:55,824 --> 00:04:59,744 Speaker 1: environmental end ways that we can get into. Their originalism 70 00:04:59,824 --> 00:05:03,624 Speaker 1: is having a huge impact on millions of lives, and 71 00:05:03,664 --> 00:05:06,744 Speaker 1: I thought, okay, maybe I should What's the first amendment 72 00:05:06,744 --> 00:05:09,384 Speaker 1: you take on In the article? It opens with a 73 00:05:09,464 --> 00:05:14,624 Speaker 1: scene of me carrying my seventeen ninety five musket around 74 00:05:14,864 --> 00:05:18,504 Speaker 1: New York City, which was a weird experience. Okay, so 75 00:05:18,584 --> 00:05:20,784 Speaker 1: this is the first thing that you tackle, is the 76 00:05:20,824 --> 00:05:24,064 Speaker 1: second Amendment, which is the right to bear arms? Right? 77 00:05:24,304 --> 00:05:27,784 Speaker 1: So yes, and in my view, if you are truly 78 00:05:27,824 --> 00:05:33,704 Speaker 1: an originalist, then you should follow what the original meaning 79 00:05:33,824 --> 00:05:39,224 Speaker 1: of bearing arms was in seventeen ninety one. And so 80 00:05:39,664 --> 00:05:42,944 Speaker 1: I thought, I got to get myself a musket. I 81 00:05:42,984 --> 00:05:45,464 Speaker 1: could have gotten a fake musket, but I wanted a 82 00:05:45,544 --> 00:05:50,344 Speaker 1: real musket. Bought it online Anti Firearms dot Com in Texas. 83 00:05:51,104 --> 00:05:54,144 Speaker 1: You know, I said, does this work? And they said yes, 84 00:05:54,344 --> 00:05:58,264 Speaker 1: but we strongly recommend you do not use it. And 85 00:05:58,384 --> 00:06:01,904 Speaker 1: I said, well why not? And they said, well it 86 00:06:01,984 --> 00:06:05,384 Speaker 1: might lead to a catastrophic failure. Oh. I said that 87 00:06:05,944 --> 00:06:08,944 Speaker 1: that doesn't sound good. It just means, they explained, it 88 00:06:09,064 --> 00:06:11,584 Speaker 1: blows up in my face. Is it literally two hundred 89 00:06:11,664 --> 00:06:14,384 Speaker 1: years older? It's a replica now it's real, it's seventeen 90 00:06:14,544 --> 00:06:18,224 Speaker 1: ninety five like it was used. Yeah, it was expensive. 91 00:06:18,424 --> 00:06:21,224 Speaker 1: It was like two thousand dollars. You walk around New 92 00:06:21,304 --> 00:06:24,664 Speaker 1: York City and for reasons that I have to do 93 00:06:24,664 --> 00:06:27,184 Speaker 1: with your own personal psychology, you put on the full 94 00:06:27,744 --> 00:06:32,064 Speaker 1: revolutionary work carp right like you've got. I did. I did. 95 00:06:32,104 --> 00:06:34,864 Speaker 1: I had the tricorn hat I had. It was actually 96 00:06:34,904 --> 00:06:38,624 Speaker 1: it was a Hamilton costume that I got online. And 97 00:06:38,664 --> 00:06:41,464 Speaker 1: it was hilarious to see the reaction. I mean, because 98 00:06:41,584 --> 00:06:44,864 Speaker 1: I spent some time in Times Square and I was 99 00:06:44,904 --> 00:06:47,904 Speaker 1: just one of like two hundred people who were dressed up, 100 00:06:47,944 --> 00:06:50,504 Speaker 1: and you know, a spider man came up to me. 101 00:06:50,544 --> 00:06:53,504 Speaker 1: And did like a little fist bump and was yeah, 102 00:06:53,584 --> 00:06:56,104 Speaker 1: and he was like arm Matie, and I'm like, I'm 103 00:06:56,144 --> 00:06:58,224 Speaker 1: not a pirate, I'm a founding father and he's like 104 00:06:58,504 --> 00:07:02,104 Speaker 1: arm mate. But the reaction was it was very mixed. 105 00:07:02,104 --> 00:07:04,704 Speaker 1: You know. Some people were like, Oh, that's that's amazing, 106 00:07:04,784 --> 00:07:07,944 Speaker 1: that's so cool, and then there were people who were 107 00:07:08,024 --> 00:07:10,384 Speaker 1: like what the hell, you know, get what are you doing. 108 00:07:11,144 --> 00:07:13,784 Speaker 1: It did come in handy because I went into a 109 00:07:13,824 --> 00:07:16,104 Speaker 1: coffee shop and the guy in front of me in 110 00:07:16,184 --> 00:07:19,184 Speaker 1: line was like, you go ahead. So it does have 111 00:07:19,264 --> 00:07:22,704 Speaker 1: its advantages. You carry around a gun and it makes 112 00:07:22,704 --> 00:07:26,104 Speaker 1: people uncomfortable. Yeah, but it was weird the way it 113 00:07:26,104 --> 00:07:29,824 Speaker 1: affected me. When I was carrying it around. I actually 114 00:07:29,864 --> 00:07:33,144 Speaker 1: had this like surge of power, like I'm carrying a gun. 115 00:07:33,304 --> 00:07:37,704 Speaker 1: I am really pat which was like very bizarre and unsettling. 116 00:07:38,264 --> 00:07:41,144 Speaker 1: Then you took on the First Amendment, I did, but 117 00:07:41,224 --> 00:07:42,984 Speaker 1: you did it in a way that I'd never thought 118 00:07:43,024 --> 00:07:46,504 Speaker 1: about before, which is you looked at what free speech 119 00:07:46,544 --> 00:07:50,824 Speaker 1: meant back in seventeen eighty nine. Right, So I decided 120 00:07:50,944 --> 00:07:53,584 Speaker 1: I would only follow the First Amendment, my right to 121 00:07:53,624 --> 00:07:57,784 Speaker 1: free speech as they did it in seventeen eighty nine, 122 00:07:57,824 --> 00:08:01,984 Speaker 1: so I bought some parchment, and did you buy actual parchment? No, 123 00:08:02,144 --> 00:08:06,984 Speaker 1: it's more yellow yellow. It's not actual pig skin, that's right. 124 00:08:07,264 --> 00:08:10,584 Speaker 1: You know a lot about parchment. Yeah, it's actual skin 125 00:08:10,664 --> 00:08:14,144 Speaker 1: that's been stretched really thin, right, right, So that was 126 00:08:14,224 --> 00:08:17,824 Speaker 1: not But I did. I did buy a real feather 127 00:08:17,944 --> 00:08:21,664 Speaker 1: pen and real ink, and I wrote. I wrote my tweets. 128 00:08:21,824 --> 00:08:25,064 Speaker 1: So I sort of copied my tweets onto the parchment 129 00:08:25,104 --> 00:08:28,024 Speaker 1: paper and I handed them out in times square and 130 00:08:28,144 --> 00:08:31,144 Speaker 1: it was very you know, I got again a mixed reaction. 131 00:08:31,224 --> 00:08:34,784 Speaker 1: A lot of people avoided iconduct. And so there's a 132 00:08:34,824 --> 00:08:38,824 Speaker 1: guy in a tricornered hat with a musket right handing 133 00:08:38,864 --> 00:08:41,784 Speaker 1: these pieces of paper out to people. I would think 134 00:08:41,824 --> 00:08:43,824 Speaker 1: that most people would avoid you. There was I would 135 00:08:43,824 --> 00:08:47,744 Speaker 1: say sixty seventy percent avoidance. That's not bad. Well, yeah, 136 00:08:47,984 --> 00:08:50,384 Speaker 1: I was happy with you know, there were the people 137 00:08:50,424 --> 00:08:53,384 Speaker 1: who responded. A lot of them were tourists who didn't 138 00:08:53,424 --> 00:08:56,784 Speaker 1: speak English, who thought that they were getting something for free. Yeah, 139 00:08:56,824 --> 00:08:59,264 Speaker 1: well they were, they were getting my tweets. Yeah. But 140 00:08:59,344 --> 00:09:02,104 Speaker 1: I will say the other part of the First Amendment 141 00:09:02,104 --> 00:09:07,464 Speaker 1: I found perhaps even more interesting, which was that I 142 00:09:07,544 --> 00:09:10,624 Speaker 1: read a couple of books out the First Amendment as 143 00:09:10,664 --> 00:09:14,104 Speaker 1: it was seen then, and it was much more restrictive, 144 00:09:14,464 --> 00:09:18,384 Speaker 1: like we had blasphemy laws in some states. There is 145 00:09:18,424 --> 00:09:20,944 Speaker 1: someone put in jail for blasphemy I think in the 146 00:09:21,744 --> 00:09:25,664 Speaker 1: eighteen twenties, maybe even eighteen thirty so for blasphemy in 147 00:09:25,704 --> 00:09:29,744 Speaker 1: the United States, which is insane. And also they were 148 00:09:29,824 --> 00:09:34,904 Speaker 1: much more restrictive about criticizing the government. So you then said, well, 149 00:09:34,944 --> 00:09:37,584 Speaker 1: you can't just say whatever you want. Clearly in seventeen 150 00:09:37,624 --> 00:09:40,384 Speaker 1: eighty nine, the First Amendment didn't give us the right 151 00:09:40,424 --> 00:09:42,464 Speaker 1: to say whatever we wanted. So then you impose those 152 00:09:42,584 --> 00:09:44,984 Speaker 1: rules on your own family. I did. I told my 153 00:09:45,064 --> 00:09:49,624 Speaker 1: kids they could not say, you know, a blaspheme, they 154 00:09:49,664 --> 00:09:52,304 Speaker 1: couldn't say God damn. And I also went on Twitter. 155 00:09:52,384 --> 00:09:55,784 Speaker 1: I started a Twitter account as called original Dude seventeen 156 00:09:55,824 --> 00:10:00,944 Speaker 1: eighty nine, and I would scold people who were making 157 00:10:01,064 --> 00:10:04,824 Speaker 1: seditious comments on both sides. So someone who was saying, 158 00:10:04,944 --> 00:10:07,824 Speaker 1: you know, Biden as a traitor, I would say, under 159 00:10:07,864 --> 00:10:10,864 Speaker 1: the original meaning of the First Amendment, this is seditious, 160 00:10:10,864 --> 00:10:14,864 Speaker 1: please remove. And what would people say in return? They 161 00:10:14,784 --> 00:10:20,824 Speaker 1: either either ignored me or I got one um lmao. 162 00:10:21,904 --> 00:10:25,664 Speaker 1: Whatever dude was. The was the response, they did not 163 00:10:25,744 --> 00:10:28,664 Speaker 1: take me seriously, which is a shame. And then to 164 00:10:28,824 --> 00:10:32,304 Speaker 1: punish your child for blasphemy. You bought a pillory, right. 165 00:10:32,344 --> 00:10:37,464 Speaker 1: A pillary is that wooden contraption where you put your 166 00:10:37,624 --> 00:10:39,624 Speaker 1: arms in and you put your head in and you're 167 00:10:39,664 --> 00:10:43,824 Speaker 1: locked in and people will throw things at you or tickle. 168 00:10:44,064 --> 00:10:47,184 Speaker 1: If you read the history of pillary, is that right? Yeah, 169 00:10:47,264 --> 00:10:54,144 Speaker 1: tickling was part of the nishment. It's like a double fetish. Wow, 170 00:10:55,144 --> 00:10:58,024 Speaker 1: it's great. Well, that's the thing. When I googled it, 171 00:10:58,144 --> 00:11:00,704 Speaker 1: like I want to buy a pillary, I found a 172 00:11:00,744 --> 00:11:03,064 Speaker 1: lot of websites that, as I say in the article, 173 00:11:03,064 --> 00:11:07,864 Speaker 1: would not have passed the obscenity laws of the seventeen eighties. 174 00:11:08,784 --> 00:11:11,744 Speaker 1: But there I was able to find one. Well, but 175 00:11:11,864 --> 00:11:13,704 Speaker 1: if you had bought, if you had gone to like 176 00:11:13,704 --> 00:11:15,944 Speaker 1: an S and M site and bought a pillory, they're 177 00:11:15,984 --> 00:11:19,024 Speaker 1: also not cheap by a zume. No, No, it's true. 178 00:11:19,064 --> 00:11:21,344 Speaker 1: They were a few hundred and I didn't have it. 179 00:11:22,624 --> 00:11:24,944 Speaker 1: And I did learn a lot about the difference between 180 00:11:25,024 --> 00:11:28,064 Speaker 1: stocks and pillary. I think, oh, what is the difference? 181 00:11:28,184 --> 00:11:31,984 Speaker 1: I think stocks the legs have holes for legs as well, 182 00:11:33,184 --> 00:11:36,664 Speaker 1: but they had all sorts of horrible punishment. I mean 183 00:11:36,704 --> 00:11:38,504 Speaker 1: it goes along. If you want to save money, your 184 00:11:38,504 --> 00:11:41,904 Speaker 1: pillory instead of stock, right, it is a more efficient 185 00:11:41,944 --> 00:11:44,024 Speaker 1: way if you don't have the wood. So the pillory 186 00:11:44,064 --> 00:11:47,184 Speaker 1: thing is also the eighth Amendment says there that there 187 00:11:47,224 --> 00:11:51,904 Speaker 1: can't be any cruel and unusual punishment. Right, Excessive bail 188 00:11:52,104 --> 00:11:57,024 Speaker 1: shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel 189 00:11:57,104 --> 00:12:00,504 Speaker 1: and unusual punishments inflicted. So the eighth Amendment says you 190 00:12:00,544 --> 00:12:03,544 Speaker 1: cannot commit cruel and unusual punishment. Right, the things were 191 00:12:03,544 --> 00:12:06,264 Speaker 1: cruel and unusual. I mean death penalty, no big deal, 192 00:12:06,344 --> 00:12:10,184 Speaker 1: pillorying stocks, no big deal, tickling people apparently, no big 193 00:12:10,224 --> 00:12:16,304 Speaker 1: deal exactly, And that is used by originalists because at 194 00:12:16,344 --> 00:12:19,744 Speaker 1: the time of the signing of those amendments, the death 195 00:12:19,784 --> 00:12:22,904 Speaker 1: penalty was perfectly fine. What was the hardest, or like, 196 00:12:23,264 --> 00:12:27,144 Speaker 1: the most uncomfortable amendment to follow? Well, the awkward ones 197 00:12:27,224 --> 00:12:30,024 Speaker 1: were that, and there was another awkward one because of course, 198 00:12:30,184 --> 00:12:33,384 Speaker 1: the people who wrote the Constitution were incredibly sexist, so 199 00:12:33,424 --> 00:12:36,504 Speaker 1: I had to deal with sexism and that was that 200 00:12:36,584 --> 00:12:39,904 Speaker 1: made me sweat and Scalia would argued this. Anton and 201 00:12:39,944 --> 00:12:43,984 Speaker 1: Scalia said that the fourteenth Amendment, which guarantees equal protection 202 00:12:44,064 --> 00:12:48,104 Speaker 1: does not apply to gender. It was it applied to 203 00:12:48,824 --> 00:12:52,584 Speaker 1: black people. That's written before women get the vote, so right, 204 00:12:52,624 --> 00:12:55,424 Speaker 1: it's before women get the vote. But it also doesn't 205 00:12:55,424 --> 00:13:00,384 Speaker 1: apply to their careers. So women at the time there 206 00:13:00,384 --> 00:13:04,344 Speaker 1: were a lot of laws. Women could not sign contracts 207 00:13:04,664 --> 00:13:08,104 Speaker 1: in some states. There were a lot of careers they 208 00:13:08,144 --> 00:13:11,184 Speaker 1: couldn't do. Women in Michigan, I remember they couldn't be 209 00:13:11,344 --> 00:13:15,144 Speaker 1: bartenders unless their husband was a bartender. You know. I 210 00:13:15,304 --> 00:13:19,144 Speaker 1: figured that I should at least try to live by this. 211 00:13:19,344 --> 00:13:22,584 Speaker 1: The one that made me sweat was that many states 212 00:13:22,584 --> 00:13:25,904 Speaker 1: would not allow women to be lawyers. And the lawyer 213 00:13:25,944 --> 00:13:28,984 Speaker 1: who does my books is a woman. So I wrote 214 00:13:29,024 --> 00:13:33,624 Speaker 1: her a note like, you know, nothing personal, but during 215 00:13:33,624 --> 00:13:37,544 Speaker 1: this experiment, I cannot deal with you on legal matters, 216 00:13:38,144 --> 00:13:41,744 Speaker 1: but I'll deal with any male colleagues of yours. And 217 00:13:41,944 --> 00:13:44,624 Speaker 1: I felt like such a dick sending it. And then 218 00:13:44,664 --> 00:13:48,704 Speaker 1: she didn't respond for like two days, and I was like, oh, 219 00:13:49,024 --> 00:13:53,624 Speaker 1: damn it, like did this really? That was this horrible 220 00:13:53,624 --> 00:13:56,264 Speaker 1: thing to do? And then like she's like, oh that 221 00:13:56,384 --> 00:13:58,944 Speaker 1: was funny. I got it, so but for those two 222 00:13:59,024 --> 00:14:02,744 Speaker 1: days it was really unpleasant. Did that give you empathy 223 00:14:02,784 --> 00:14:04,984 Speaker 1: for Mike Pence, who has to send out that email 224 00:14:05,064 --> 00:14:09,904 Speaker 1: like five times a day I have. I have a 225 00:14:09,944 --> 00:14:12,904 Speaker 1: lot of trouble having empathy. Well, then, of course he 226 00:14:12,984 --> 00:14:16,984 Speaker 1: saved our country, so you know, I don't know so anyway, yes, 227 00:14:17,144 --> 00:14:20,704 Speaker 1: so if you if you take a true originalist interpretation, 228 00:14:20,904 --> 00:14:27,304 Speaker 1: then then interracial marriages is not guaranteed. And my sister 229 00:14:27,664 --> 00:14:31,784 Speaker 1: is married to a man who is um part Indigenous 230 00:14:32,064 --> 00:14:36,704 Speaker 1: and part Latino from Peru. So I called her and 231 00:14:36,824 --> 00:14:39,744 Speaker 1: it was one of the most awkward conversations. How do 232 00:14:39,784 --> 00:14:44,304 Speaker 1: you start that one? Well, I said, she's always supportive 233 00:14:44,344 --> 00:14:46,504 Speaker 1: of my writing career, so I kind of pitched it 234 00:14:46,584 --> 00:14:48,824 Speaker 1: that way, Like I know, I always start with I'm 235 00:14:48,864 --> 00:14:52,624 Speaker 1: working on an article, right, I didn't say like, I 236 00:14:52,664 --> 00:14:56,144 Speaker 1: didn't say like I disapprove of your marriage. I was like, 237 00:14:56,664 --> 00:14:59,784 Speaker 1: for this article to prove my point. I think that 238 00:15:00,064 --> 00:15:03,824 Speaker 1: your marriage would not be legal in many states. And 239 00:15:03,864 --> 00:15:07,944 Speaker 1: then I paused and there is awkward silence, and she said, well, 240 00:15:08,024 --> 00:15:09,824 Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you. I'll give you 241 00:15:09,864 --> 00:15:13,264 Speaker 1: back the wine glasses that you gave me for my wedding. 242 00:15:13,304 --> 00:15:16,224 Speaker 1: How's that? And I was like that sounds good, and 243 00:15:16,944 --> 00:15:18,784 Speaker 1: she's like, all right, I'll send it and she's then 244 00:15:18,824 --> 00:15:20,704 Speaker 1: she's like, why am I sending them? Like, if you 245 00:15:20,784 --> 00:15:23,424 Speaker 1: want to do this horrible thing, you pick them up, 246 00:15:23,984 --> 00:15:27,784 Speaker 1: and I never did pick them up. Is there anything 247 00:15:27,824 --> 00:15:31,264 Speaker 1: in the original Constitution that says that when your sister 248 00:15:31,344 --> 00:15:33,304 Speaker 1: gets married you have to buy them a nice gift, 249 00:15:33,304 --> 00:15:39,624 Speaker 1: and not just wineglasses. They were nice wine glasses your sister. 250 00:15:40,224 --> 00:15:43,824 Speaker 1: Don't be like, AJ, buy something nice for your sister's wedding, 251 00:15:44,344 --> 00:15:47,184 Speaker 1: perhaps something you're about to hear about from our sponsors. 252 00:15:54,264 --> 00:15:57,744 Speaker 1: Living according to the Constitution isn't easy, and not just 253 00:15:57,784 --> 00:16:00,944 Speaker 1: because it requires reading the thing. It's because, unlike the Bible, 254 00:16:01,224 --> 00:16:04,424 Speaker 1: the Constitution isn't a set of rules for what Americans 255 00:16:04,544 --> 00:16:08,904 Speaker 1: can do. There's no thou shalt play football despite concussions. 256 00:16:09,704 --> 00:16:12,104 Speaker 1: The Constitution is a set of rules for what the 257 00:16:12,304 --> 00:16:16,264 Speaker 1: government should do. After the obvious rules that do directly 258 00:16:16,304 --> 00:16:20,304 Speaker 1: affect people, free speech, and guns, ij had to dig 259 00:16:20,344 --> 00:16:24,984 Speaker 1: a lot deeper. He found Section eight, clause eighteen, which 260 00:16:25,024 --> 00:16:29,784 Speaker 1: says that only Congress can make laws, which if read literally, 261 00:16:30,144 --> 00:16:33,304 Speaker 1: could change a lot of how we do things. So 262 00:16:33,344 --> 00:16:37,704 Speaker 1: when the EPA or the FDA makes regulations, they argue 263 00:16:37,824 --> 00:16:41,424 Speaker 1: these are actually laws, and this is not good so 264 00:16:42,144 --> 00:16:46,664 Speaker 1: in a totally originalist world, the FDA and EPA would 265 00:16:46,664 --> 00:16:50,784 Speaker 1: have practically no power. Yeah, So I thought, if I 266 00:16:50,824 --> 00:16:52,304 Speaker 1: were going to live in this world, I could not 267 00:16:52,464 --> 00:16:56,784 Speaker 1: trust what came out of my task because there would 268 00:16:56,784 --> 00:17:01,344 Speaker 1: be no clean water legislation. So I got water out 269 00:17:01,384 --> 00:17:04,704 Speaker 1: of the pond at Central Park, and I like used 270 00:17:04,784 --> 00:17:08,304 Speaker 1: a life straw. Yeah, I didn't use a lifestyle but 271 00:17:09,384 --> 00:17:12,144 Speaker 1: the same idea. Yeah. I filtered the water from the 272 00:17:12,544 --> 00:17:17,144 Speaker 1: pondit Central Park, which was crazy, like it is literally 273 00:17:17,384 --> 00:17:21,184 Speaker 1: like fluorescent green because their algal blooms in there. So 274 00:17:21,544 --> 00:17:25,144 Speaker 1: I literally had like half a sip and I was 275 00:17:25,184 --> 00:17:29,904 Speaker 1: still up all night worrying that I had, But I 276 00:17:29,944 --> 00:17:32,024 Speaker 1: felt I had to. You decided to live by the 277 00:17:32,064 --> 00:17:34,304 Speaker 1: Third Amendment, which is so short, I'm just going to 278 00:17:34,384 --> 00:17:37,824 Speaker 1: read the whole thing. No soldiers shall, in time of 279 00:17:37,864 --> 00:17:40,904 Speaker 1: peace be quartered in any house without the consent of 280 00:17:40,944 --> 00:17:44,104 Speaker 1: the owner, nor in time of war, but in a 281 00:17:44,144 --> 00:17:47,784 Speaker 1: manner to be prescribed by law. It just basically meant 282 00:17:47,824 --> 00:17:50,664 Speaker 1: soldiers can't come and demand to live in your house. 283 00:17:51,184 --> 00:17:56,584 Speaker 1: So I thought I wanted to experience that by offering 284 00:17:56,944 --> 00:18:00,784 Speaker 1: to quarter troops in my apartment in New York, but 285 00:18:00,984 --> 00:18:03,984 Speaker 1: only if I gave consent, like I would have to 286 00:18:04,024 --> 00:18:06,624 Speaker 1: have an interview and see if they were cool and 287 00:18:06,664 --> 00:18:10,384 Speaker 1: then give the consent. So I put several ads on 288 00:18:10,464 --> 00:18:14,264 Speaker 1: Craigslist saying free apartment in a free room in the 289 00:18:14,984 --> 00:18:18,624 Speaker 1: upper West Side apartment if you're in the military, and 290 00:18:18,744 --> 00:18:22,224 Speaker 1: I thought I might be flooded. I was, but I 291 00:18:22,264 --> 00:18:23,864 Speaker 1: don't know, I might have been on the wrong part 292 00:18:23,864 --> 00:18:26,504 Speaker 1: of Craig. I only got one response was from an 293 00:18:26,624 --> 00:18:32,024 Speaker 1: architecture student from South America who was not in an 294 00:18:32,144 --> 00:18:35,544 Speaker 1: army as far as I could tell, so she did 295 00:18:35,584 --> 00:18:39,144 Speaker 1: not get quartered. There's actually someone showed me there is 296 00:18:39,184 --> 00:18:42,584 Speaker 1: a I think it's a TikTok channel or which is 297 00:18:42,624 --> 00:18:46,864 Speaker 1: obsessed with the Third Amendment, the quartering of troops. It's 298 00:18:46,864 --> 00:18:50,784 Speaker 1: sort of I think it's a parody of Second Amendment obsessives. 299 00:18:51,064 --> 00:18:56,304 Speaker 1: So they're all like they like to like offer quarters 300 00:18:56,504 --> 00:18:58,144 Speaker 1: and then be like, oh, you want to stay in 301 00:18:58,224 --> 00:19:01,944 Speaker 1: my house, No, you can't stay at my house, And 302 00:19:02,064 --> 00:19:04,264 Speaker 1: that's the whole stick. I feel like there's a similar 303 00:19:04,304 --> 00:19:08,064 Speaker 1: thing with the Bible and the Constitution where people will 304 00:19:08,144 --> 00:19:10,744 Speaker 1: fight for the death and argue about it but haven't 305 00:19:10,784 --> 00:19:14,024 Speaker 1: actually read it. Yeah. I agree, first of all, it's 306 00:19:14,064 --> 00:19:16,784 Speaker 1: not very long, so people should read it. And much 307 00:19:16,824 --> 00:19:20,064 Speaker 1: like the Bible, the Constitution, people quote it kind of 308 00:19:20,104 --> 00:19:23,264 Speaker 1: the same way, like it's Article six, section two, like 309 00:19:23,304 --> 00:19:25,624 Speaker 1: it has those kind of of the coal in. It 310 00:19:25,704 --> 00:19:28,464 Speaker 1: just feels publical to me the way people use it. Well, 311 00:19:28,504 --> 00:19:32,424 Speaker 1: what I realized studying this too, is how contingent the 312 00:19:32,464 --> 00:19:36,384 Speaker 1: Constitution was. Like it is not etston Stone. It could 313 00:19:36,424 --> 00:19:40,064 Speaker 1: have gone a thousand different ways depending on who happened 314 00:19:40,064 --> 00:19:43,024 Speaker 1: to be drunk that day and had a hangover and 315 00:19:43,064 --> 00:19:47,944 Speaker 1: missed the convention, and so thinking that this is so 316 00:19:47,984 --> 00:19:50,264 Speaker 1: sacred and it's the only way it could have been, 317 00:19:50,424 --> 00:19:53,264 Speaker 1: and that we can't change it. And there is an 318 00:19:53,344 --> 00:19:56,584 Speaker 1: argument a lot of people on the left make, which 319 00:19:56,624 --> 00:19:59,744 Speaker 1: I kind of buy, is that the that the founding 320 00:19:59,744 --> 00:20:02,904 Speaker 1: fathers would not have been originalists, they would have changed 321 00:20:03,304 --> 00:20:07,424 Speaker 1: the Constitution. And they did change the Constitution, so let's 322 00:20:07,464 --> 00:20:10,984 Speaker 1: not treat it with quite such kid gloves. Actually, this 323 00:20:11,224 --> 00:20:13,224 Speaker 1: is a tweet that I liked that I think sums 324 00:20:13,304 --> 00:20:18,784 Speaker 1: up my philosophy. It said Governor Morris, who wrote a 325 00:20:18,784 --> 00:20:20,944 Speaker 1: lot of like he did the final draft. He's known 326 00:20:20,984 --> 00:20:25,784 Speaker 1: as the penman of the Constitution. Governor Morris died of 327 00:20:25,824 --> 00:20:31,104 Speaker 1: an infection after inserting a whalebone into his penis. I 328 00:20:31,144 --> 00:20:34,064 Speaker 1: think we can edit the document that was the tweet 329 00:20:34,464 --> 00:20:40,984 Speaker 1: meaning these people were not sophisticated in all areas. And 330 00:20:41,024 --> 00:20:43,544 Speaker 1: I looked it up. He did he had a urinary 331 00:20:43,584 --> 00:20:46,584 Speaker 1: tract infection and he thought he would cure it by 332 00:20:46,704 --> 00:20:50,824 Speaker 1: inserting a whalebone right in there. And that story sounds 333 00:20:50,864 --> 00:20:54,984 Speaker 1: like bullshit. That sounds clear to me. Hold on, he 334 00:20:55,024 --> 00:20:57,264 Speaker 1: couldn't get it up and he made up this year 335 00:20:57,624 --> 00:21:02,064 Speaker 1: infection story because a whalebone is a very specific thing, right, 336 00:21:02,184 --> 00:21:04,904 Speaker 1: It does seem weird that he's not cranberry juice. It's 337 00:21:04,944 --> 00:21:08,584 Speaker 1: a whalebone. It's like the biggest animal ever to live 338 00:21:08,624 --> 00:21:11,944 Speaker 1: on the earth, their bone in your penis. I'm not 339 00:21:12,024 --> 00:21:15,024 Speaker 1: going to speculate. I'm speculating right here, but yeah, please 340 00:21:15,104 --> 00:21:18,704 Speaker 1: go ahead. All I know is I think that was 341 00:21:18,744 --> 00:21:21,864 Speaker 1: a very good way to say. You know, this was 342 00:21:21,904 --> 00:21:24,384 Speaker 1: seventeen eighty nine. Well that's what you proved. People are 343 00:21:24,424 --> 00:21:28,384 Speaker 1: living under very different circumstances and picturing a very different 344 00:21:28,424 --> 00:21:31,424 Speaker 1: world when they're writing this thing, and so we have 345 00:21:31,504 --> 00:21:34,144 Speaker 1: to do a little bit of interpretation to bring people 346 00:21:34,264 --> 00:21:38,464 Speaker 1: up to where we are. Now and that's very contentious obviously, right. Well, 347 00:21:38,464 --> 00:21:40,864 Speaker 1: one of the historians I read so I think he 348 00:21:41,024 --> 00:21:43,104 Speaker 1: used the phrase that you know it was a foreign 349 00:21:43,144 --> 00:21:46,024 Speaker 1: country in seventeen eighty nine. Yeah, the past is a 350 00:21:46,064 --> 00:21:50,024 Speaker 1: foreign country. Yeah, and it is shocking just how different 351 00:21:50,104 --> 00:21:53,984 Speaker 1: it was. Well, it is always a pleasure to talk 352 00:21:54,024 --> 00:21:56,144 Speaker 1: to you and a pleasure to read your stories. This 353 00:21:56,184 --> 00:21:57,744 Speaker 1: was so fun and I hope you do turn this 354 00:21:57,744 --> 00:22:02,864 Speaker 1: into a book. Thanks Joel. If aj had come to 355 00:22:02,904 --> 00:22:05,384 Speaker 1: me for advice, which he should have as a member 356 00:22:05,424 --> 00:22:08,504 Speaker 1: of the Stunt Journalist Association, I would have told to 357 00:22:08,544 --> 00:22:11,864 Speaker 1: focus on the First Amendment, not the parts of the 358 00:22:11,904 --> 00:22:14,984 Speaker 1: First Amendment that everyone knows, like freedom of speech and religion. 359 00:22:15,944 --> 00:22:19,104 Speaker 1: The First Amendments only forty five words long, but the 360 00:22:19,264 --> 00:22:24,064 Speaker 1: final nine words give Americans this awesome right, and it's 361 00:22:24,064 --> 00:22:28,424 Speaker 1: the right to quote petition the government for a redress 362 00:22:28,544 --> 00:22:31,544 Speaker 1: of grievances. They don't say that you have to have 363 00:22:31,664 --> 00:22:35,664 Speaker 1: grievances with the government. You can petition the government about 364 00:22:35,704 --> 00:22:38,104 Speaker 1: any grievance. And I have a lot of grievances I 365 00:22:38,104 --> 00:22:42,024 Speaker 1: want addressed. First of all, the metaverse, it's just not 366 00:22:42,064 --> 00:22:45,064 Speaker 1: going to happen. Stop bothering me. About it. Second, I 367 00:22:45,184 --> 00:22:48,264 Speaker 1: get way too many texts. The government should be able 368 00:22:48,304 --> 00:22:51,144 Speaker 1: to stop people from sending me the first stupid thought 369 00:22:51,144 --> 00:22:55,064 Speaker 1: that enters their heads. Oh. Also, the producer of this 370 00:22:55,104 --> 00:22:59,584 Speaker 1: podcast cuts a lot of my jokes, like last week 371 00:22:59,704 --> 00:23:02,384 Speaker 1: I had one about the Holocaust, and as a Jew, 372 00:23:02,624 --> 00:23:04,824 Speaker 1: I think I have the right to make a Holocaust joke. 373 00:23:05,184 --> 00:23:09,304 Speaker 1: Especially at the end of the show. What's next for 374 00:23:09,464 --> 00:23:13,344 Speaker 1: joel Stein. Maybe he'll take a nap poke around online. 375 00:23:14,264 --> 00:23:17,904 Speaker 1: Our show today was produced by Kate mcculiffe and nishaven Cut. 376 00:23:18,104 --> 00:23:22,384 Speaker 1: It was edited by Robert Smith. Our engineer is Amanda 377 00:23:22,424 --> 00:23:27,264 Speaker 1: kay Wag and our executive producer is Katherine Siradol. And 378 00:23:27,304 --> 00:23:30,184 Speaker 1: our theme song was written and performed by Jonathan Colton. 379 00:23:30,584 --> 00:23:33,184 Speaker 1: And a special thanks to my voice coach Bicky Merrick 380 00:23:33,424 --> 00:23:37,824 Speaker 1: and my consulting producer Laurence Elasnick. To find more Pushkin podcast, 381 00:23:38,224 --> 00:23:42,104 Speaker 1: listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 382 00:23:42,104 --> 00:23:45,424 Speaker 1: listen to your podcasts. I'm Joel Stein, and this is 383 00:23:45,424 --> 00:23:48,304 Speaker 1: the story of the week. I write a column for 384 00:23:48,544 --> 00:23:51,704 Speaker 1: Mental Floss called The Bad Old Days, and it's all 385 00:23:51,744 --> 00:23:57,464 Speaker 1: about how horrible the past was, how like sexist and 386 00:23:57,544 --> 00:24:02,704 Speaker 1: violent and Smellie, Smellie, that's exactly right. It was the 387 00:24:02,784 --> 00:24:04,904 Speaker 1: past day. Every time I see a movie and someone 388 00:24:04,944 --> 00:24:07,104 Speaker 1: gets a time machine and they start turning the dial 389 00:24:07,184 --> 00:24:09,064 Speaker 1: to the past, I just want to grab their hand 390 00:24:09,064 --> 00:24:10,824 Speaker 1: on the push it the other way. That would be 391 00:24:10,864 --> 00:24:13,304 Speaker 1: interesting if they like got out of the time machine 392 00:24:13,344 --> 00:24:16,264 Speaker 1: and their first remark would probably be, oh my god, 393 00:24:17,424 --> 00:24:20,744 Speaker 1: I'm gonna vomit. Yeah, that would be more realistic.