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Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of the Giants Subtle Podcast. Folks,

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Speaker 1: wanted to make sure with this episode that you're subscribed

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Speaker 1: to Draft Season, our draft podcast. I know we've got

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Speaker 1: a lot of questions about that on our various podcasts here,

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Speaker 1: including Big Blue Kickoff Live, and just wanted to make

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Speaker 1: sure you know that Draft Season is our draft podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's every week all year long. Tony Pauline and I,

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Speaker 1: along with some guests talk NFL drafts, so I wanted

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Speaker 1: to make sure everyone on the Giants Little podcast feed

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Speaker 1: was aware of it. Here is this week's episode. Make

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Speaker 1: sure you go find Draft Season subscribe on your favorite

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Speaker 1: podcast platform just search for Draft Season or find it

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Speaker 1: on the Giants app or at giants dot com slash podcast.

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Speaker 1: This week on Draft Season, we rank our defensive backs,

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Speaker 1: talk about underclassmen being available now for college All Star games,

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Speaker 1: and some of the big matchups that happened this past

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Speaker 1: week in college football. Here's this week's episode with myself,

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Speaker 1: Tony Pauline, and our guest Trevor Sikima. Now officially open.

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Speaker 1: This is Draft Season and John Schmel Tony Pauline back

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Speaker 1: with you, and we're happy to be joined by a

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Speaker 1: special guest this week Trevor Sikima. You know him from

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Speaker 1: our coverage here on the Giant Subtle podcast. Does a

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Speaker 1: great job covering the draft for Pro Football Focus. You

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Speaker 1: can find them on the NFL Stock Exchange podcast and

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Speaker 1: the PFF NFL podcast. Trev, I know this is kind

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Speaker 1: of a tough time of year. We were kind of

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Speaker 1: in depth NFL and college. Do you have the energy

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Speaker 1: for another two months or so of this?

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Speaker 2: Of course I do.

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Speaker 3: This is what it's all about, baby, This is the

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Speaker 3: this is the holiday grind, if you will, that time

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Speaker 3: that you get right past Halloween and then all the

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Speaker 3: way through the New Years. Man, you're just pedaled to

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Speaker 3: the metal trying to take in as much information as

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Speaker 3: you can get those final rechecks before you get into

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Speaker 3: all star seasons.

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Speaker 2: So it's a beautiful time of year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we all got a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: holiday gift this past week the NFL announcing that underclassmen

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Speaker 1: that are not graduating, so true junior as red, short, softwares,

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Speaker 1: you name it, any college player be that's eligible for

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Speaker 1: the draft can now attend these college All star games. Tony,

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Speaker 1: let's start with you. I know you're in contact with

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Speaker 1: a lot of agents, scouts, teams. How does this impact

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Speaker 1: the process? How many of these juniors even want to

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Speaker 1: go to these games that are going to be high picks.

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Speaker 1: How do you think this changes what that atmosphere is

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Speaker 1: going to be like in January for the Shrine Bowl

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Speaker 1: and the Senior Bowl.

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Speaker 4: I think what's gonna happen is, first of all, you

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Speaker 4: know a little bit of visual in his history. If

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Speaker 4: you will, it will give you a minute or two.

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Speaker 4: You go back to like nineteen ninety three, whenever it

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Speaker 4: was a guy by the name of Dave T. Thomas

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Speaker 4: who was a very eccentric personality.

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Speaker 1: He founder of Wendy's. No.

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Speaker 4: He actually used to do the draft guides for the

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Speaker 4: NFL Draft back in the day when they were like

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Speaker 4: a six inch stick. Anyway, he ran the Hula Bowl

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Speaker 4: when the Hula Bawl was actually in Honolulu, Hawaiian played

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Speaker 4: at the Aloha Bowl, and in nineteen ninety three he

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Speaker 4: was the first one to start to invite underclassmen to

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Speaker 4: the Hula Bowl. And back then the NFL was so

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Speaker 4: adverse against our underclassmen entering the NFL Draft. They didn't

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Speaker 4: want to seem like they were advocating it. So when

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Speaker 4: Dave D. Thomas started inviting the underclassman to the Hula

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Speaker 4: Bowl right around nineteen ninety three, NFL teams didn't go

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Speaker 4: into the game, they didn't go to practices, they send

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Speaker 4: no representatives, which I'm sure a lot of the scouts

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Speaker 4: were very upset. Get a nice week's vacation in Hawaiian

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Speaker 4: is hula ball. And then twenty years later, you know,

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Speaker 4: Jim Nagy started where he would allow four year juniors

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Speaker 4: or academic seniors to play in the Senior Ball. And

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Speaker 4: here we are ten years after that, and now all

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Speaker 4: underclassmen or any underclassman that declares themselves eligible for the

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Speaker 4: draft is now allowed to play in the Senior Bowl,

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Speaker 4: the Shrine Game, the Hula Bawl, which is now played

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Speaker 4: in Florida. We're down one game because the NFLPA Game

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Speaker 4: was canceled. I don't think it's going to affect it

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Speaker 4: that much. You've got to remember the initial invitation is

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Speaker 4: the first tier invitations for the Senior Bowl and Shrine

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Speaker 4: Bowl have already gone out. Those second tier invitations are

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Speaker 4: going to go out in December, and the underclassmen have

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Speaker 4: until January fifteenth to make their decision as to whether

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Speaker 4: or not they're going to enter the draft. So I

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Speaker 4: think what will happen is you're probably gonna have about

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Speaker 4: a half a dozen or so spots that Jim Nagy

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Speaker 4: and Eric Galco jimagib Is try Senior Bowl and Eric

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Speaker 4: Gaalaco of the Shrine Bowl save for the juniors. And

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Speaker 4: what will happen is the top juniors are not gonna,

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Speaker 4: you know, go to those games because the top juniors

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Speaker 4: are going to be first round picks, and first round

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Speaker 4: picks rarely playing those games the Senior Bowl these days,

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Speaker 4: which is a shame. What you may have, what may

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Speaker 4: happen is those invitations will go out to juniors at

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Speaker 4: certain positions offensive tackle, cornerback, play positions like that, and

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Speaker 4: if those juniors don't accept those invitations, you'll then have

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Speaker 4: third tier seniors who are invited to the game. So

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Speaker 4: I mean most of those, most of the roster. And

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Speaker 4: if you remember, John, we spoke with Jim Nagi last

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Speaker 4: year the past couple of years and he talked about

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Speaker 4: how with the NIL with the sixth year of of

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Speaker 4: eligibility being given, sometimes it's tough to fill that roster.

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Speaker 4: So now you know you've got to have most of

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Speaker 4: that roster in place, and you may not you know

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Speaker 4: which underclassmen are yet to declare. I mean guys that

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Speaker 4: are gonna be outside the top seventy five.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and try for guys like us who don't get

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Speaker 1: to go to college practices and stuff. Obviously, the NFL

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Speaker 1: teams to get close to books with these guys. Anyone

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Speaker 1: that we can just get eyes on in person at

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Speaker 1: these games is gonna be beneficial and it's gonna frankly

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Speaker 1: push more talent at least starting next year with since

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Speaker 1: the invitations draft this year, maybe not so much this year,

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Speaker 1: it'll push more talent down down the line a little

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Speaker 1: bit where now the Shrine Bowl is maybe gonna get

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Speaker 1: fifteen guys that otherwise would have been at the Senior Bowl.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, you know, first and foremost, it feels

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Speaker 3: like it's a it feels like it's a.

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Speaker 2: Media and a hype decision.

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Speaker 3: Anyways, Like we're seeing the NFL and just NFL media

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Speaker 3: really want to monetize both of the top two games.

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Speaker 2: I would say the Senior Bowl and the Shrine Bowl

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Speaker 2: for shocking.

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Speaker 3: They're wanting to get more people to watch the coverage,

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Speaker 3: not just to the game itself, but during the practices

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Speaker 3: and you could see, like on the NFL network they've

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Speaker 3: been pushing over the last couple of years, like football

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Speaker 3: is three sixty five, and so this to me is

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Speaker 3: a big movement towards that where if you I agree

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Speaker 3: with Tony, like, I don't know how many juniors they're

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Speaker 3: getting this year because of the process, but like in

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Speaker 3: future years, maybe it's a little different. Right, Baker Mayfield

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Speaker 3: went to the Senior Bowl, Josh Allen went to the

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Speaker 3: Senior Bowl. So you never know, some of these huge

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Speaker 3: name players might end up going that are juniors, and

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Speaker 3: that only gets more people interested in gets more people

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Speaker 3: to watch the shows and the coverage and all that

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Speaker 3: kinds of stuff. And so that's kind of why I

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Speaker 3: felt like the move was made, because they're trying to

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Speaker 3: just make it more of a national notable time of

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Speaker 3: the year for the football calendar.

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Speaker 2: But you know, I can't help but think, you know.

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Speaker 3: I wonder about guys like like Tyson Major. Right, Tyson

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Speaker 3: Beagen goes to the Senior Bowl. Good chance nobody would

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Speaker 3: have even known who Tyson Beagent was throughout the entire

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Speaker 3: draft process had he not gone to the Senior Bowl. Well,

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Speaker 3: if true underclassmen are allowed to go to the game

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Speaker 3: and you're trying to get as much hype and notoriety

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Speaker 3: as the game that you possibly can, maybe guy like

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Speaker 3: Tyson Bage doesn't get an invite, you know. I think

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Speaker 3: about like Tarik Wooland as well, you know, and it's

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Speaker 3: like he's a he ended up being a fifth round pick,

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Speaker 3: but he really showed his stuff for the Senior Bowl.

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Speaker 2: Does a guy like that get invited?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 1: Another guy?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And so I just I think of those players as like,

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Speaker 3: even if we're only getting a handful of true underclassmen

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Speaker 3: that come in, there, are there those true like draft gems.

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Speaker 2: Do we get less of those?

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Speaker 3: And I'm not saying that that's like good or bad

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Speaker 3: for the game or anything. It's just something that now

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Speaker 3: with the pool of players a lot more vast, and

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Speaker 3: with some more notable names now qualifying to play at

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Speaker 3: these events, you're naturally going to want to invite the

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Speaker 3: guys that are going to get people to come to

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Speaker 3: the game, gonna get people to want to watch. And

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Speaker 3: I wonder how it affects some of those like last

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Speaker 3: invite players if you will.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, the interesting thing is does the Senior

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Speaker 4: both still call itself the ce Ball because a reward

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Speaker 4: for seniors, you know, academic seniors when they was there,

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Speaker 4: And you're right, I mean, you know, it'll be interesting

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Speaker 4: because you know, as we all know, going to Senior Bowl,

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Speaker 4: there's always an SEC sort of flavor there. So does

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Speaker 4: nag start to invite some of the SEC underclassmen who

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Speaker 4: have declared, you know, are are ready to play. So

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Speaker 4: that'll be an interesting thing to see. But I don't

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Speaker 4: like the decision personally because I think especially with the

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Speaker 4: C Ball, it's you know, as Trevor was saying, it's

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Speaker 4: a reward for these guys who have stuck out, who

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Speaker 4: have finished their eligibility, we're ready to go to the

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Speaker 4: next level. It'll be interesting. I don't think it's really

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Speaker 4: going to it's not going to have a major impact,

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Speaker 4: but yeah, you're going to have those those fringe, you know,

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Speaker 4: second tier, third tier seniors that could lose out those

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Speaker 4: final spots because underclassmen are getting those positions.

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Speaker 1: It was a very busy weekend in college football. Let's

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Speaker 1: go there, trav. I'll let you lead off here. Pick

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Speaker 1: out one game that you want to touch on that

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Speaker 1: maybe some of the guys that may have stuck out

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Speaker 1: to you this week that you thought a game was

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Speaker 1: particularly consequential.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so from this pass game not not one that's

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Speaker 2: coming up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah past week.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, let me let me, let me check.

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Speaker 3: I gotta I gotta remind myself of some of the

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Speaker 3: big games because I can't forget what oh oh. I

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Speaker 3: have to start with Jaden Daniels. I have to start

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Speaker 3: with the LSU quarterback, Jaden and Daniels because of what

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Speaker 3: he did against my Florida Gators. I made sure to

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Speaker 3: pay attention to that one, and it wasn't pretty.

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Speaker 2: But Jayden's been awesome, man.

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Speaker 3: I mean, even going back to his time at Arizona State.

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Speaker 3: You've got what he did at Arizona State, where he

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Speaker 3: felt like he was just basically like a big armed

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Speaker 3: but more of a running quarterback. Like a lot of

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Speaker 3: people weren't really taking his pocket presence very seriously when

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Speaker 3: he was at Arizona State. He goes over to LSU

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Speaker 3: and last year I definitely took notice, and I don't

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Speaker 3: know a lot about the people did as well. How

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Speaker 3: low the turnover wheth he plays were for him, he

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Speaker 3: was making sure.

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Speaker 2: I need to take care of this ball a lot more,

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Speaker 2: and you could tell he worked on that last year.

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Speaker 2: This year he's.

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Speaker 3: Taking those fundamental skills that he was able to hone

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Speaker 3: in on the year before, and now we're seeing crazy

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Speaker 3: passing numbers, I mean, the big time throws away up

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Speaker 3: for him, the yards and rushing. This guy, to me,

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Speaker 3: should be the front runner for the Heisman right now.

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Speaker 3: And because of that, I think he's putting his name frillly.

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Speaker 3: You know that this conversation for QB three in this

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Speaker 3: class because a lot of people, Yeah, it's Drake Man

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Speaker 3: and Caleb Williams at the very top, but there's a

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Speaker 3: handful of other names Shidora Sanders, Bon Knicks, Michael Pennix,

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Speaker 3: JJ McCarthy, Jaden Daniels is putting his name within that

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Speaker 3: conversation to be potentially that third quarterback off the board.

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Speaker 3: So that is the game to me that definitely stood

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Speaker 3: out because of just the overall offensive potential this guy

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Speaker 3: brings to the table and he put it on display

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Speaker 3: this past weekend.

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Speaker 1: And Tony, I know you you've talked a lot about

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Speaker 1: the LS wide receivers and how they're going to be

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Speaker 1: impacted by Daniels Trevor mentioned it, Daniels I think has

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Speaker 1: I know, he is the most twenty plus yard plays

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Speaker 1: in all of college football. I think he almost has

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Speaker 1: twenty more than a guy like the next best guy

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Speaker 1: in Penis and Caleb Williams. And we're seeing now not

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Speaker 1: just neighbors, now his other wide receiver and Thomas is

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Speaker 1: making some big plays too out there.

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Speaker 4: Well. As you talked about last week, I think the

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Speaker 4: thing with Jade Daniels is he's becoming more and more

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Speaker 4: of a quarterback, you know, just more and more of

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Speaker 4: a passer, not a thrower, making good decisions protecting the football.

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Speaker 4: You know, there has been a lot of inconsistency in

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Speaker 4: his game previous to this. You know, you look at

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Speaker 4: the twenty twenty two film. You know, beginning of the season,

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Speaker 4: you're wondering what's going on. Then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 4: he pulls it together. At the end of the season,

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Speaker 4: they beat Alabama in double overtime. He makes some great decisions.

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Speaker 4: He made some great decisions in the game prior to this.

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Speaker 4: To this is the pass one. Let's see how he

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Speaker 4: got how we he does this? The season ends, the

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Speaker 4: hours pointing up and you know it's ironic. We're talking

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Speaker 4: about the Senior Ball and the Shrine game because Jaden

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Speaker 4: Daniels is the kind of guy that, as I've said

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Speaker 4: time and time again, the Senior Bowl is a king

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Speaker 4: maker at the quarterback position. We can go through the

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Speaker 4: history and see guys who came in his fringe first

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Speaker 4: round picks, you know, day two picks and just vaulted

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Speaker 4: up draft boards. That is the sort of situation with

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Speaker 4: a sort of opportunity that I would expect Jayden Daniels

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Speaker 4: to have come the end of January. If he continues well,

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Speaker 4: you probably get the invitation anyway. You want to see

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Speaker 4: him continue to play at this high level and protect

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Speaker 4: the football and continue to make good decisions. I watched it,

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Speaker 4: you know, the Penn State Michigan game was a very

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Speaker 4: interesting game for a variety of reasons. You know what's

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Speaker 4: starting with Jim hartball being unable to even be in

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Speaker 4: the stadium. But I thought the offensive lines in that

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Speaker 4: game really played incredibly well. Is accident of Michigan. Trevor

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Speaker 4: Keegan of Michigan played exceptionally well. Drake Nugent, the center,

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Speaker 4: the transfer from Stanford who no one talks about, though

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Speaker 4: he played exceptionally well against the very good Penn State front.

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Speaker 4: I think when you look at the Penn State offensive line,

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Speaker 4: you know, we know Ficiano sal Warmley, but Hunter Norzad,

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Speaker 4: the transfer from Cornell who's been there for two years,

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Speaker 4: so he played really really well, neutralized Chris Jenkins most

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Speaker 4: of the game. Chris Jenkins really was a non factor

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Speaker 4: because the Hunter norris Ad really liked the offensive line

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Speaker 4: played both sides. And that Penn State Michigan game.

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Speaker 1: You know, Trevor's funny we were all excited, Starker interrupting that, Oh,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna see JJ McCarthy against this really good defense.

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Speaker 1: See what he does. They throws it eight times. I mean,

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Speaker 1: come a high. You got that out of that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Unfortunately that was we didn't really learn anything from

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Speaker 3: JJ McCarthy that day. I thought it was much more

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Speaker 3: of a game where, like Tony said, I think both

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Speaker 3: of the offensive lines have been played really well. To me,

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Speaker 3: that was Forshano's best game, and he kind of needed

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Speaker 3: it because we've talked all year long. I feel like

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Speaker 3: going into the season it was like, man, yes, Olivashano

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Speaker 3: one of the best smoothest pass protectors that we've seen

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Speaker 3: in a long time. But the strength aspect of his game,

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Speaker 3: he wasn't this people mover. And for his size, you

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Speaker 3: would think that he would be a little bit more

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Speaker 3: effective in run blocking and the strength portion of his

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Speaker 3: game the point of attack, and we really had not

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Speaker 3: seen that. In fact, when Penn State played against Ohio State,

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Speaker 3: the couple of times that he got got.

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Speaker 2: If you will, it was JT.

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Speaker 3: Twoey Moloau just hitting the long arm and just bull

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Speaker 3: rushing him, you know, just straight back into the pocket

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Speaker 3: of of Drew Aller. And so that was a game

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Speaker 3: where you went, man, okay, this would have been a

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Speaker 3: good test for your strength, and he really didn't show

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Speaker 3: up for it. I felt like this past weekend against

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Speaker 3: Michigan he showed a lot more of that. He played

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Speaker 3: with the nasty streak. I don't know if somebody did

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Speaker 3: the John Henderson pregame slap of the face to him

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Speaker 3: before he went out there or what it was, but

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Speaker 3: whatever it is, they need to do that more often,

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Speaker 3: because I thought that he played with a fire this

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Speaker 3: past weekend.

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Speaker 2: So it was Fashano's best game.

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Speaker 1: Too, Tony. I know Yosa had an eye in the

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Speaker 1: Miami Florida State game this weekend.

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Speaker 4: Right, it was a good game. It was an excellent game.

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Speaker 4: And you know, Leonard Taylor played very well. He didn't

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Speaker 4: have eye popping numbers. But when you watch Leonard Taylor,

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Speaker 4: the defensive lineman from Miami, very explosive, very athletic, incredibly quick,

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Speaker 4: penetrates the gaps, can change the direction. He's gotta get

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Speaker 4: a little bit bigger, you gotta get a little bit stronger.

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Speaker 4: I think he's probably going to enter the draft, even

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Speaker 4: though he's gonna need to add both to his frame.

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Speaker 4: But there's a lot to like there with Leonard Taylor.

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Speaker 4: I don't see him as a first round pick as

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Speaker 4: a lot of people are talking about. You can see

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Speaker 4: the explosion, you can see the underlying ability to be

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Speaker 4: a big time player if he continues to develop and

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Speaker 4: just physically matures.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you.

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Speaker 3: I don't really know if there's gonna be another first

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Speaker 3: round pick interior defensive lineman outside of Gerson Newton from Illinois.

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Speaker 3: I feel like if you would have asked me at

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Speaker 3: the beginning of the season, who has that chance to

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Speaker 3: be another interior defensive lineman, I would have told you

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Speaker 3: Leonard Taylor. Just because the pass rush grade the year

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Speaker 3: before and the pass rush win percentage, I mean, all

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Speaker 3: those numbers are really high and you can see it.

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Speaker 3: I mean Tony mentions it. He moves so well for

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Speaker 3: a player who plays on the interior, and you see

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Speaker 3: a lot of that in his pass rush. But when

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Speaker 3: it comes to run defense, he's a little undisciplined. He

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Speaker 3: can get out of his gaps, he can kind of

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Speaker 3: get pushed around, like the offensive line can kind of

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Speaker 3: manipulate him in certain ways where he's totally running himself

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Speaker 3: out of the play and it's really hurting his team

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Speaker 3: as at Florida State was able to exploit a couple of.

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Speaker 2: Times in that game.

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Speaker 3: So a lot of talent with Taylor, But I agree,

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Speaker 3: I don't think that he is first as much potential

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Speaker 3: as he has. I don't know if he's the finished

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Speaker 3: product enough that you would need to see to take him.

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Speaker 2: Maybe back into the first round, just because his pass

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Speaker 2: rushing is so alluring.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it's probably something that he's going to be

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Speaker 3: more of a priority Day two.

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Speaker 1: Pick right, stick it on the game real quick? Where

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Speaker 1: are you on? Keon Coleman And a lot of people

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Speaker 1: have him as wide receiver too. Tony and I are

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Speaker 1: not as high on him as some other people are.

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Speaker 1: I don't see that separation skill I much perform Elik Neighbors.

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Speaker 1: For example, where are you on Keon Coleman. He'd a

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Speaker 1: pretty quiet game against Mammy, just four catchap.

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Speaker 2: I like Keon Coleman.

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Speaker 3: He's got some of the best big moments at the

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Speaker 3: receiver position that we've seen over the course of this season.

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Speaker 3: But there's no doubt about it. The consistent production certainly

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Speaker 3: favors Malik Neighbors Romo Dunze from Washington, and I have

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Speaker 3: both of those guys ahead of Coleman. I've got Coleman

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Speaker 3: as wide receiver four for me right now, and I

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Speaker 3: think a lot of people talk about that group after

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Speaker 3: Marvin Harrison Junior, and to me, the next guy on

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Speaker 3: that list is very easily Molite Neighbors. To me, I

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Speaker 3: think that just the way that that dude moves is

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Speaker 3: so different. You may you mentioned this separation that sometimes

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Speaker 3: is eluding Coleman's game. For as great as he is

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Speaker 3: as an athlete, he I think he brings a lot

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Speaker 3: of top tier athleticism At six foot three, two hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifteen pounds to the catch point. We've seen that

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Speaker 3: time and time again. But it's the separation before you

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Speaker 3: get the ball that I think both o'doonsay and certainly

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Speaker 3: Malik Neighbors are better at. That is just such a

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Speaker 3: valuable translatable skill to the next level. So still have

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Speaker 3: Coleman in my top five wide receivers, but he would

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Speaker 3: be wide receiver four for me behind those two guys,

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Speaker 3: and then of course Marvin Harrison Junior too.

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Speaker 1: And I want to throw Franklin from Oregon into the

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Speaker 1: mix two. By the way. That guy has speed and size,

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Speaker 1: and I think this is gonna be a really deep

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Speaker 1: wide receiver class. Tony, one of the game you want

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Speaker 1: to touch on and then I'll go to the other

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Speaker 1: PAC twelve game with you, Trevor Utah Washington, Tony, what

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Speaker 1: kind of jumped out to you there? Every week it

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Speaker 1: seems like Washington puts up forty on somebody. It's amazing,

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Speaker 1: you know, I know this is not.

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Speaker 4: Gonna be a popular thought, but just the inconsistency of

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Speaker 4: Michael Pennix. I mean, he came through for him, and

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Speaker 4: you know we're talking Washington won the game, but at

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Speaker 4: one point in time, you know, he's thrown for less

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Speaker 4: than fifty passes. There's just a streakiness to Michael Pennock's game.

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Speaker 4: Great story, great vertical pass, a great deep arm, makes

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Speaker 4: some huge throws, but there's just a streakiness and an

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Speaker 4: inconsistency within games that really concern me about Michael Pennis.

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Speaker 4: And again you talk about Jayden downs, Well, Daniels seemed

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Speaker 4: to kind of figure that out and be productive for

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Speaker 4: all four quarters. Penix disappears. That is a major concern.

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Speaker 4: I know there's a lot of love for him. People

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Speaker 4: watch the highlights, people watch the big plays down the

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Speaker 4: field to mc millan at doonesay, there's just that up

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Speaker 4: and down within the four quarters of the game with

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Speaker 4: Penix that kind of concerns me. He won, they're still

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Speaker 4: on the hunt for the national title. I mean, people

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Speaker 4: are still gonna be talking about Pennix, but I think

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Speaker 4: there's a lot there to be ironed out for Michael Pennix. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Pennix, he like you said, he's got some of the

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Speaker 3: best top tier throws of any quarterback in college football.

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Speaker 3: But ball placement is definitely something that has grown into

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Speaker 3: an issue with him as the season has gone on,

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Speaker 3: especially when you talk about him in that QB three conversation,

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Speaker 3: and you know, I find myself believing in Penix because

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Speaker 3: when I watch him in some of the ball placement

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Speaker 3: issues that he has, both his throwing motion and his

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Speaker 3: footwork is not as clean as it can be right now.

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Speaker 3: And so I sometimes I convince myself that, Okay, well,

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Speaker 3: if you marry that up a little more, does the

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Speaker 3: ball placement get better? But sometimes touch is just something

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Speaker 3: that's tough to teach. Sometimes touch is impossible to teach

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Speaker 3: for certain quarterbacks, and for Penis, he is a flamethrower

435
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,720
Speaker 3: type of quarterback. You know, when he is throwing fastball,

436
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,960
Speaker 3: it's a lot like JJ McCarthy is right now. When

437
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,240
Speaker 3: JJ McCarthy and Michael Pennox are throwing fastball, when they're

438
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 3: throwing gas, those dudes can really put the football in

439
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,720
Speaker 3: a beautiful spot. But when you've got to put a

440
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 3: certain amount of touch onto it, I think that's when

441
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,760
Speaker 3: both of those guys struggle a little bit. And so, yeah,

442
00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,919
Speaker 3: Penix has some incredibly big throws, but the insistencies and

443
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,880
Speaker 3: of course the injury history as well as well as

444
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 3: his age are going to.

445
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 2: Be something that a lot of people talk about throughout

446
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:06,640
Speaker 2: this season, and.

447
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,280
Speaker 1: Trev, I'm gonna go to the other PAC twelve game

448
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 1: that started. A lot of people in the East Coast

449
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,679
Speaker 1: probably didn't watch it because the game started around ten

450
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 1: thirty at night. I got through about three and a

451
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,480
Speaker 1: half quarters and I passed out of my couch. I

452
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 1: watched the rest of it the next day. But again

453
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 1: USC outmatched from a team perspective by Oregon obviously just

454
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,400
Speaker 1: a much better team, much more talented, and Caleb Williams

455
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 1: is just nineteen to thirty four. He had a bad

456
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,440
Speaker 1: fumble in the game, had to try to play hero ball,

457
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,440
Speaker 1: but again it's because he has to play hero ball

458
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 1: for his team to have a chance. And there were

459
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,720
Speaker 1: still some plays in that game at a structure throws

460
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 1: on the move down the field where you're, oh my gosh,

461
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,040
Speaker 1: like there is no other person in the world that's

462
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 1: probably not named Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes that can

463
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,159
Speaker 1: make those type of athletic throws on the move with

464
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 1: touch accurately down the field to receivers on the move.

465
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,160
Speaker 1: And I just can't get away from those plays when

466
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,239
Speaker 1: I try to have that top two quarterback conversation in

467
00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 1: my head.

468
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:00,919
Speaker 2: No, and you're right he is.

469
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 3: He is so supremely talented, but there's no question about it.

470
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 3: He's just he's got to get better within structure, like

471
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 3: the wow stuff. It's incredible. He does things that nobody

472
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,959
Speaker 3: else in this quarterback class can and in fact, there

473
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 3: are very few quarterbacks, I think, on the planet who

474
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,359
Speaker 3: can do what Kayleb william does does. But you know,

475
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 3: I was watching a clip that somebody had posted on

476
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 3: social media actually early today, and it was a beautiful

477
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,439
Speaker 3: Kleb William's throw to the sideline where he hit it

478
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 3: pinpoint accurately, absolutely perfect, over the shoulder, right over the defender.

479
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:32,919
Speaker 3: It was within the pocket, it was within the first

480
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,400
Speaker 3: two and a half seconds i think three seconds maybe

481
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 3: of the snap, and you go, wow, look at that,

482
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 3: and then you kind of watch it more and more

483
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 3: because it was from the all twenty two angle and

484
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 3: the feet just stopped moving, you know, like he's the

485
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:51,000
Speaker 3: footwork just absolutely stops. His upper body mechanics are overcoming him,

486
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 3: not moving his feet, and yet the ball still went

487
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 3: exactly where it needed to go, exactly when it needed

488
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 3: to go there. And so it is what makes Kleb

489
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 3: Williams the most fascinating and frustrating prospect in this entire

490
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 3: class because his gifts are better than any player that's

491
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 3: going to be in this class. But it's just it's

492
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 3: so worrisome because there's not a lot of people who

493
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,479
Speaker 3: do it like he does, including in the NFL. And

494
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 3: I think that that is both his biggest, you know

495
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 3: attraction and also his biggest attractor is there are just

496
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 3: not many exacts because a lot of people have tried, right,

497
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,600
Speaker 3: A lot of people try to do what Caleb Williams

498
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 3: has been able to do at USC at the NFL

499
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 3: level and it does not work. So when you can

500
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 3: only name one or two players who play that kind

501
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 3: of style and actually make it work, of course you're

502
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,359
Speaker 3: talking about the top tier guys, but I think people

503
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,120
Speaker 3: also have to think about the players that he did

504
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 3: not work out at and that's you know what every

505
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 3: team is going to have to go through this offseason.

506
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, Tony, you've been through this. You've been doing

507
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: as much longer than Trevor and I put me in it,

508
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,360
Speaker 1: put us in the shoes of these NFL scouts. Are

509
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: they just going to look at the tools and say

510
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 1: we get him with our coaches we'll fix some of that.

511
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: We'll fix the footwork, we'll fix the ball pertend and

512
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 1: some of that stuff. And they're gonna say, we see

513
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 1: the high end stuff and we can fix the rest.

514
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: How do you think the league will view him? You know,

515
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: because remember is not much different When Patrick Mahomes was

516
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 1: a Texas tech, he was a mess. Like he was,

517
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: he was a legitimate mess and and you read fixed them.

518
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 1: And now we see maybe the guy that couldn't end

519
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 1: up being a top three quarterback in the history of

520
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: the league. So how do you think the scouts will

521
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,679
Speaker 1: will view Williams and kind of that lens.

522
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 4: Well, it's not going to be one one one opinion

523
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 4: fits all. It's not gonna be one size fits all.

524
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 4: But I'll go back to, you know, talk about Patrick Mahomes.

525
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,200
Speaker 4: I remember when Philip Rivers was at the Senior Ball

526
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 4: and I'm standing behind a couple of New York Giants

527
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 4: scouts and Philip Rivers had a hideous delivery and it

528
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 4: was the ugliest thing in the world. And the Giant

529
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,880
Speaker 4: scouts said, you know what, you may not like the delivery,

530
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 4: but look at the end result. And the end result

531
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 4: was precise accuracy, putting the ball where only his receiver

532
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 4: can make the reception. So sometimes you know, you may try.

533
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 4: If you try and change some things, you may ruin

534
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 4: the quarterback. I think there's gonna be I think there

535
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 4: will be some people who try and work on some

536
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 4: of the some of the mechanics, some of the fundamentals.

537
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 4: But there'll be able to say, say, look this this kid,

538
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,719
Speaker 4: since he was a freshman, since he took over at

539
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 4: Oklahoma as a true freshman, has been doing this and

540
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 4: doing it incredibly well. And now you're usc where he's

541
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 4: basically carrying that team that offense on the shoulders. I

542
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 4: think the people go out there and just say, hey,

543
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 4: let them play. Well, maybe we'll fix a few things.

544
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:26,959
Speaker 4: I don't think it's going to be a big overall.

545
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 4: I think what's going to happen is, you know, as

546
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 4: we get closer to the draft, people are going to

547
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 4: you know, use this as a talking point to talk

548
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 4: down about Caleb Williams, and there will be some teams

549
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 4: that don't like his mechanics. But again, you know, I

550
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,639
Speaker 4: go back to that store Phill rivers. It was a

551
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 4: hideous throwing motion. But the end result is what matters,

552
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 4: and the end result was the ball was consistently put

553
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 4: in a place where only his receiver can make the reception.

554
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: It's November and I'm already tired about the discussion. To

555
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 1: be honest with you, which which is a problem is

556
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: we got five months before the draft, so we'll see

557
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 1: where this winds up. All right, we came here to

558
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: do cornerback rankings and defensive back stuff. We had so

559
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 1: much other stuff to talk about. Great conversation, Let's get

560
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: to corners, Tony. Let's start with the two guys on

561
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 1: top of your rankings, two Alabama players, Kooley McKinstry and

562
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 1: Terry on Arnold. And you know, I watched mcinstrey in

563
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 1: the offseason. I was impressed. I had a I figured

564
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: first round pick. Gotta be honest, Terry on Arnold's not

565
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: that far off from him. I love his physicality, He tackles,

566
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: he doesn't let guys run by him. Why are these

567
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: two guys your top guys? How much of separating them?

568
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: And what do you like about him? Well?

569
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 4: Mcissrey is my number one guy. I mean, he's physical,

570
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 4: he's spicety, he does a great job making plays with

571
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 4: his back to the ball. Consistently doesn't have too many

572
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 4: mental lapses. Arnold, I think, has really really stepped it

573
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 4: up this year. I think Arnold's has benefited from the

574
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,880
Speaker 4: fact that teams usually don't like to throw mcissy's way,

575
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 4: they throw his in his direction, so he gets to

576
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 4: make plays on the ball. And he's doing a great

577
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 4: job of it. And you know, Arnold's not talked about

578
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 4: too much in Twitter draft world, but you talk to scouts,

579
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 4: you talk to people in the league decision make watch them,

580
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 4: and they absolutely love this guy. I think, I don't

581
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 4: know he's going to be a first round pick. I

582
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 4: have him as a second round right now. I do

583
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 4: think mckissry is right now the number one corner I

584
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 4: think he's going to be a first round pick. He

585
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 4: could be an early first round selection because of the

586
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,719
Speaker 4: importance of the position, and cornerbacks always go much earlier

587
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 4: than it originally anticipated. I have not heard whether Arnold's

588
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 4: going to enter the draft. Alabama usually loses a lot

589
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 4: of underclassmen. Mcki history is a little bit longer than Arnold,

590
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 4: is a little bit bigger than an a little bit

591
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 4: more physical. But they both have excellent ball skills, so

592
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 4: they've got good ball skills for where they are in

593
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 4: their career. They both have terrific upside, and they come

594
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 4: from a program that has consistently put good cornerbacks into

595
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 4: the NFL.

596
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 2: I think both.

597
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 3: I think both these players are fantastic. And Arnold wasn't

598
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 3: really on my radar going into the year just because

599
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 3: of how inexperienced he was at that point, so I

600
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 3: didn't know if we were talking about a guy who

601
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 3: was going to go out in the draft this past year.

602
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 3: Definitely watch McKinstry, and I like McKinstry a lot. I mean,

603
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 3: he's just got the thing that I love about kool

604
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 3: Aid mckinsrey is certainly he plays for Alabama's defensive scheme,

605
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 3: which asks you to do You've got to be a

606
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 3: smart corner, you really do. Like there's a lot of

607
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 3: different principles that you got to understand, a lot of

608
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: man match stuff that you've got to understand. But also

609
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 3: a Saban defense will require you to play press coverage

610
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 3: a decent amount. And for kool Aid McKinstry, he has

611
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 3: played in press more than half of his coverage snaps

612
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 3: in his career, which is a big deal. This guy

613
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: is so comfortable playing with his back to the ball,

614
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 3: and we all talk about Okay, there's a lot of

615
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 3: defensive coordinators that love to get aggressive. And in order

616
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 3: to get aggressive, and when I say that, I mean,

617
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 3: of course sending extra players on the blitz, getting more

618
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 3: pressure on the pocket. You've got to be able to

619
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 3: play man coverage. And the best way to do that

620
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 3: is to play press man.

621
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: Right.

622
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: You don't give any guys any space, be able to

623
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 3: keep up with them for the at least three seconds

624
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 3: down the field. You can only do that if you

625
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 3: were very comfortable playing with your back to the ball,

626
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 3: because some corners are not. Some corners panic. Can You

627
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 3: see a lot of those guys who may have man

628
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 3: coverage skills, but if they're uncomfortable with their back to

629
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 3: the ball, if they're uncomfortable reading the eyes or the

630
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 3: hands of the body language of the receiver, you see

631
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 3: a lot of penalties. You see a lot of allowed receptions,

632
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 3: things like that. McKinstry is not that way. He's so

633
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: calm when he is playing press coverage and with his

634
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:18,960
Speaker 3: back to the ball, he's got a ton of forcing

635
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 3: completions because of it. He's got a very low completion

636
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 3: percentage allowed overall. Arnold to me, the reason why I

637
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 3: think you're going to see people start to say they

638
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 3: maybe like Arnold more than McKinstry, But it's because Arnold

639
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 3: has a little bit more of that quick twitch athleticism

640
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 3: and people believe that he has more of a ballhawking

641
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 3: nature to him, where mckinstrey, to me, is just this

642
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 3: shutdown corner type where you tell him, Okay, go guard

643
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 3: their best receiver today and don't let him catch the ball.

644
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: You might not get an interception, but you're gonna get

645
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 3: a handful of passes.

646
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 2: Defendant.

647
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 3: For Arnold, he might be more of an interception type

648
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 3: of a player, but I do think that it's a

649
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 3: little bit of a sacrifice. I think he's also going

650
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 3: to allow more receptions than a guy like Wholey mcintrey

651
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 3: would be. So these are two very talented corners. I

652
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 3: agree with Tony. I think that they're both top fifty

653
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 3: worthy for sure, but I would agree I've got McKinstry

654
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 3: above Arnold at this point.

655
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: And they've actually started using Arnold in the slot a

656
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: little bit the last few weeks too. They've used them inside,

657
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: so that's a little versatility. While mcinchreey's pretty much been

658
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: there outside right cornerback pretty much for the majority of

659
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: the year. Third guy on your list Tony is Nate

660
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 1: Winggins out of Clemson, and watching him the last couple

661
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: of days, I think pure coverage wise and movement skill wise,

662
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: he might actually be my favorite corner in this group.

663
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: He's long, he's slender, he changes directions extremely well, and

664
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: you just don't everything looks everything looks so smooth when

665
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: he's running. He just never seems strained out there to.

666
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 4: Make physical it. Does a great job covering receivers on

667
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 4: crushing patterns, works to get his head back around to

668
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 4: track the pass in the air, will just physically beat

669
00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 4: down opponents to defense. Rose relatively talented Clemson back the

670
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 4: secondary as it usually is right now. I've got him

671
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 4: as the second round Joe. I thought he played well

672
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty two. I think he's playing even better

673
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 4: this year. A guy who again the arrow is pointing

674
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 4: north on him. I like his upside with guys like

675
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 4: a third year juniors, a third year sophomore, even fourth

676
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 4: year juniors at the cornerback position in the secondary. You

677
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 4: want to see what they run in the forty. The

678
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 4: testing numbers are relatively important for these guys, but Wiggins

679
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 4: continually answers the call. He's been a good player for

680
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 4: a couple of seasons now with Clemson.

681
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mentioned mckinsrey being a player that you could say, hey,

682
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 3: go guard the other team's wide receiver.

683
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 2: But John, I agree with you.

684
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 3: I think if there is a player in this class

685
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 3: that you would have the most confidence in saying that's

686
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 3: their number one wide receiver, don't let him catch the football,

687
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 3: it's probably Nate Wiggins. Even for as much as I

688
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 3: like mckinstrey, because Wiggins has a little bit more length

689
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 3: to him, He's got a little bit more twitch to him.

690
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 3: I think that he struggled to play with strength in

691
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 3: run defense and a little bit at the catch point.

692
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 3: Not as much as the catchpoint, but certainly in run

693
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: defense last year. Since he has come back from injury

694
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 3: this year, I feel like he is playing even stronger,

695
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 3: Like he is clearly not backing down from those physical

696
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 3: press coverage assignments where he is right at the line

697
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 3: of scrimmage, he's trying to get in guys faces during

698
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 3: the contact window. He is more He's more aggressive when

699
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 3: it comes to that that contact at the catch point.

700
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 3: As well, and he's got great ball skills. He had

701
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 3: three dropped interceptions last year, which would have bumped his

702
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 3: numbers up to I think four or five interceptions along

703
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 3: with double digit forcing completions. So this is a player

704
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 3: that there's no question about it, John, if you want

705
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 3: to have him at cornerback one. I don't think a

706
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 3: lot of people are gonna fight you on it because

707
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 3: I imagine when it's all said and done, I think

708
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 3: I to Tony's point, I think the Wiggins is gonna

709
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 3: test pretty well. I think he's gonna test pretty athletically.

710
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 3: And once that happens as well, you're gonna see a

711
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 3: lot of people say, and maybe even myself and say, Okay,

712
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 3: this is the guy that you probably want to take

713
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 3: the highest pick on. So you're gonna hear him in

714
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 3: the CV one conversation over the next couple of months.

715
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: For sure, Tony, Kaitlyn King is your fourth corner. I

716
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: watched him in the offseason. I loved what I saw

717
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: on his tape last year. I thought he was athletic.

718
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: I thought he was physically got down hill. I thought

719
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: I was a pure athlete. He was wonderful. Then I

720
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: put on his tape from this year and and I'm

721
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: gonna pull one of Trevor's PFF numbers one forced in

722
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: completion all year, and that is not because they're not

723
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: throwing at Kayln King. He's been targeted a ton and

724
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,959
Speaker 1: he just frankly, guys are open on him a lot.

725
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: And I thought he was a potential first round pick

726
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,479
Speaker 1: coming into the and now I have him as maybe

727
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: an early third rounder. To be quite honest with.

728
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 4: You, Yeah, I never had it as a first round.

729
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 4: It got hammered by Marvin Harrison. I mean, he's got

730
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 4: schooled by Marvin Harrison when Penn State played Ohiose.

731
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,239
Speaker 1: And it wasn't just Marvin Harrison. The other receivers got

732
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: him to in that game.

733
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 4: And the thing is, you know, as Trevor and I

734
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 4: were talking about before, you want those cornerbacks who can

735
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 4: make plays with the back to their back to the ball.

736
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 4: Kayln King seems to shrug. He does a lot of

737
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 4: face guarding, He's very slow getting his head back around

738
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 4: the track to pass in the air, doesn't do a

739
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 4: good job positioning himself against opponents to make plays when

740
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 4: the balls in the air. As they texted you before,

741
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 4: I think that Kaylen King in the outside world is overrated.

742
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 4: Where I think is his teammate Johnny Dixon, the other cornerback,

743
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 4: is actually underrated. I don't think he's going to be

744
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 4: an early big Johnny Dixon, but I think he's played

745
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 4: exceptionally well. I think there were high expectations, probably too

746
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 4: high expectations for Kaylin King, which he was never going

747
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 4: to meet this year because he was never that type

748
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 4: of cornerback at least to me.

749
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, King has really struggled this year. There's no

750
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 2: doubt about it.

751
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 4: Now.

752
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 3: The cornerback position is very cyclical, right, I mean I

753
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 3: think of guys even at the NFL level, like AJ Terrell.

754
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 2: AJ Terrell had an.

755
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 3: Unbelievable season, believe it was his rookie year in the NFL,

756
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 3: and then that sophomore year. I mean it was just

757
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: off a cliff. I mean his gray is the production

758
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 3: against him, the catches allowed, and you go, wow, Jack

759
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 3: hide here. Now AJ Trell is back to playing really

760
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 3: good ball. So that could certainly just be the case

761
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 3: with corner because it's a difficult position to play.

762
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 2: But you look at last.

763
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 3: Year twenty twenty two, Kayln King had a ninety three

764
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 3: point seven coverage grade in just single coverage in our system,

765
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 3: which to earn a elite coverage grade anyways is very,

766
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 3: very difficult. This dude had a ninety three point seven

767
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 3: just in single coverage situations. I'm lining up against the

768
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 3: receiver and I'm not letting him catch the football. This

769
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 3: year forty two point seven, like off a cliff, a

770
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 3: full fifty coverage grade points lower this year than it

771
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 3: was last year. You mentioned the lack of all production

772
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 3: as well. I had a lot of high hopes for

773
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 3: this guy because he moved so same here well last year,

774
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 3: and it's just like he just does not have the

775
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 3: confidence to be able to do that. I agree, he

776
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 3: looks very hesitant and uncomfortable with his back to the ball.

777
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 3: I mean, Marvin Harrison Junior got across his face with

778
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 3: ease to the point where this guy was like stumbling

779
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 3: and coverage against him. And Marvin Harrison Junior is the

780
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 3: best receiver in college football, but like, you gotta do

781
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 3: better than that. You know, if you're gonna be a

782
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 3: first round projected corner, you gotta be a lot better

783
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,399
Speaker 3: than that. You got to take your reps against him

784
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 3: as well, and he just absolutely did not, so I'm

785
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 3: I currently have King I think still in my top

786
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 3: five of corners, but I got a bad feeling that

787
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:21,760
Speaker 3: when I go over my final rechecks when the regular

788
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 3: season is over, I'm not so sure he's going to

789
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 3: make it into my top fives.

790
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: All right, Tony, let's go to the next two guys

791
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: on your list. You like Josh knew That a TCU,

792
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: a guy that has not done a lot of attention,

793
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 1: and Kamari Lassiter out of Georgia.

794
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Newton's well like the scouting community, He's

795
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 4: a guy who came into the season with second round grades,

796
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 4: consistent second round grades. He's a good corner guy. Not

797
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 4: the biggest guy in the world. He's not going to

798
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 4: measure six foot tall, but he's fast, he plays smart football.

799
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 4: He does a decent job making plays with his back

800
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 4: to the ball. Lasted. I think he's just another real

801
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 4: good cornerback that's going to come out of Georgia. He's

802
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 4: got excellent size, he's physical, he's very explosive, really mixes

803
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 4: it up with the receivers throughout the out very well.

804
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 4: I think he's got a high upside. I think Lasster

805
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,280
Speaker 4: is a guy who probably has better upside than Newton

806
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 4: when you compare the two, but Newton's a little bit

807
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 4: more polished at this point.

808
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: I worry about last change the direction a little bit

809
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: Trev Sometimes if he's like in a string line on

810
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: the perimeter, he's good. I've seen some guys put some

811
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: double moves on him and there's been some problems with those.

812
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, no doubt, And I think that was a question

813
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 3: for last year kind of going into the season, is

814
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 3: you know, what are you going to be now that

815
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 3: like you're the guy, right? I mean Kiely Ringo for

816
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 3: as much as okay he was, he only ended up

817
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 3: being a fourth round pick, but we talked about Keey

818
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 3: Ringo as CB one with George and n s scheme,

819
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 3: so then it was now it was lasser like he

820
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 3: was the guy in the secondary to really command a

821
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 3: lot of wide receiver won attention.

822
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 2: So I think that he has done well.

823
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 3: But he is somebody to me that wins, not that

824
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 3: he's not a good athlete, but he wins more with

825
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 3: the strength part of his game, Like he is a

826
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,919
Speaker 3: fearless type of a player. He will disrupt the catch point,

827
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 3: he will come up and run defense. If you want

828
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 3: a good game to watch. To be able to see that,

829
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 3: go watch the early game against South Carolina that he

830
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 3: had in the season. He's lined up against Xavier Lagett

831
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 3: from South Carolina a lot, and that dude is six

832
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 3: foot three to two hundred and twenty seven pounds and

833
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 3: he is just a crazy athlete for his size. And

834
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 3: yet you see a guy like Lassiter play pretty fearless

835
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 3: against him. And in fact, there were a couple of

836
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 3: players where there are a couple jump balls where they

837
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 3: just throw it up to Lagat and last year's all

838
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 3: in his face and made a couple of incompletions out

839
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 3: of it. So to me, over testing is gonna be

840
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 3: huge for last year. Like if he can really hit

841
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 3: some benchmarks and testing, he can, I think he can

842
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 3: be a first round corner, but I feel as though

843
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 3: it's more going to be him being a second round guy.

844
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 3: He still had really solid a corner from that Georgia lineage.

845
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 2: Like like Tony was mentioned.

846
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 1: All right, Tony, I want to jump on a couple

847
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: other guys. You have third round grades on Denzel Bark

848
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: from Ohio State, who he's kind of the opposite of

849
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: Kaitlin King. For me, I did not like his tape

850
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: last year. I thought he got better towards the end

851
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 1: of last season, but I think he's really carried that

852
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 1: over this year and I think he's played really, really well.

853
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna rise a little bit here as

854
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: we move forward. And I'm a big fan of Cooper

855
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: de John out of Iowa. I think he's a good goal,

856
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: good ball production, good special teams player. Obviously turn guy.

857
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: I like both those players an awful lot.

858
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 4: Jon I mean just an amazing athlete. I mean an

859
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 4: incredible athlete who has come up big as both the

860
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 4: return specialists and cornerback this year at this past season

861
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 4: for Iowa. I think he still needs a little bit

862
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 4: of work on his ball skills as far as making

863
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 4: plays with his back to the ball. Burke is being consistent.

864
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 4: I mean Burke never really stood out to me as

865
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 4: someone who was great, but he's been very consistent throughout

866
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 4: his Ohio State career. And as we you know, we

867
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 4: talked about with Alabama, Ohio State is consistently putting solid

868
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 4: corners into the NFL and into the NFL Draft. I

869
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 4: think there's a lot to like with Burke. I think Dijon,

870
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 4: if he really irons out his gamp. He's got tremendous

871
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 4: upside just based on his athleticism alone, his size, his speed.

872
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 4: I mean, he's got big time potential. He's got that upside,

873
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 4: but he's got a bit of growing to do with

874
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 4: the position.

875
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, dijon Is.

876
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 3: I mean he is such a good football player, man.

877
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,280
Speaker 3: I you know, he plays outside corner right now for Iowa,

878
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 3: But like Tony mentioned, he's a little uncomfortable with his

879
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 3: back to the ball.

880
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 2: They don't ask him to play that a lot.

881
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 3: He's a Their scheme is very off coverage, cover three

882
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 3: type of a scheme, and so you don't really get

883
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 3: to see and that's kind of disappointing. Because dejan Is

884
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 3: is six foot one, two hundred and seven pounds. You go,

885
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 3: all right, you got the measurables to play press coverage,

886
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 3: like go up and be physical with guys of the

887
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 3: line scrimmage. And I also think he's a good enough

888
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 3: athlete to be able to do it. Iowa just doesn't

889
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 3: ask him to do it a ton now. I think

890
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 3: that for as great of a straight line athlete as

891
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 3: he is, sometimes it takes him a little longer to

892
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 3: get up to that top speed just because he is

893
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 3: a bigger player. But I can't help but wonder what

894
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 3: Cooper Dejon would be in the Antoine Winfield junior role

895
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 3: where he gets to play a free safety and be

896
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 3: a ballhawking, instinctual free safety like we have seen him

897
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 3: be in off coverage at Iowa, but then also allow

898
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 3: him to be a slot defender, come down to be

899
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 3: a slot defender like Antoine Winfield Junior does against bigger

900
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 3: guys against tight ends. You know these teams that will

901
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 3: play their tight ends a lot in the slot. So

902
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 3: it's kind of a projected role because he does not

903
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 3: play there right now. He plays that outside cornerback spot.

904
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 3: But he is just such a good athlete. I have

905
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 3: a hard time thinking that a player of his caliber

906
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: is getting out of the second round because of everything

907
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 3: that you would be able to do with him on

908
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:16,359
Speaker 3: the back end.

909
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: You have thoughts on Burke, travor real Quick.

910
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that Burke. I agree with you, John.

911
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 3: I watched Burke last year and it was not my

912
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 3: favorite watch. I'll say I think his true freshman season

913
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 3: he played decent in the amount that he was able

914
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 3: to go out there, and then last season it was

915
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:33,240
Speaker 3: a struggle.

916
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 4: Now.

917
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: I think he was beat up a little bit, and.

918
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 3: So I kind of was like, Okay, injuries could go

919
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 3: into this. Because he did get better as the year

920
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 3: went on in twenty twenty two. This year, he just

921
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 3: looks more confident, he looks more comfortable. I don't think

922
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 3: he's a first round type of a corner, but he

923
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 3: is somebody who I think could be a starting caliber

924
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 3: corner at the NFL level. A CB two is CB three,

925
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 3: something like that. I do think that he has that ability,

926
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 3: and this has been his best year so far, and.

927
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: The consistency has been key. Like Tony said, all right.

928
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: I'll give both you guys a chance to bring up

929
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,479
Speaker 1: any other cornerback prospect you want that really has jumped

930
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:05,919
Speaker 1: out to you. One or two guys, tub, why don't

931
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: you go first?

932
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 3: Okay, so a man, only one or two guys. I've

933
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 3: watched so many corners and I like him.

934
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 2: I'll shout out TJ. Tampa from Iowa State.

935
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 3: This dude, you talk about bigger corner, six foot two,

936
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,880
Speaker 3: two hundred and five pounds. He's got the length, but

937
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 3: he's also got that confidence. He moves pretty damn well

938
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:26,399
Speaker 3: for a player of his size. You know, naturally, when

939
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 3: you'll watch a corner that is a bigger size, sometimes

940
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 3: you go, oh, he doesn't move nearly as well. Well, okay,

941
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 3: are you comparing a six foot two guys moving skills

942
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 3: to a five foot nine to five foot ten, because

943
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 3: there's difference. They just physically have less body to move,

944
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,360
Speaker 3: to flip the hips to move, and that is important

945
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 3: for playing corner. But I think for his size, it's

946
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 3: important to remember Tampa is athletic enough, and I think

947
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 3: he's got great ball skills too. So those long arms

948
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 3: that he has, you know, it is it's kind of

949
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 3: like that Tyreek Wooland thing. He's not the athlete that

950
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 3: Tyrek Woolan is, but he's one of those players where, man,

951
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 3: he's got those long vines to him. Where that ball's

952
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 3: anywhere near him, he's gonna be able to contest it

953
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 3: because he can get his arms up in there.

954
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 2: So Iowa states TJ. Tampa.

955
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 4: If you like.

956
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 3: Longer length corners, he's gonna be a guy that you

957
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 3: like in his class.

958
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 4: How about you, ton Well, two guys, and the first

959
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 4: one is he doesn't jump off the charts. He jumps

960
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 4: off the film and off the screen of me at times.

961
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 4: That would be Max Melton of Rutgers. And you don't

962
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 4: know what you get with Max Melton. Two years ago

963
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 4: when he's a sophomore, he looked like, Wow, this guy's

964
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 4: gonna be a first round pick. Did not play well

965
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty two, he's up and down. I mean,

966
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 4: he's got great measurable He's gonna be about six foot

967
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 4: two over two hundred pounds. He's more athletic than his

968
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 4: older brother Bo Melton. If you remember how he tested

969
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 4: at the Combine a few years ago. He's just got

970
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 4: so much upside and so much great potential, which he

971
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 4: shows on occasion. So Max Melton is going to be

972
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 4: a guy that's going to be interesting to watch through

973
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 4: the process. He may be a guy that's drafted overdrafted

974
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 4: much goes much earlier, and people think because of those measurables,

975
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 4: because of the size, because of the athleticism and what

976
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 4: he's done in the past. I gotta mention, I'm glad

977
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 4: to see he's finally rounding back into shape. As Tyke

978
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 4: Smith of Georgia started off at West Virginia transferred to Georgia,

979
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 4: was a phenomenal cornerback when he was at West Virginia,

980
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 4: came to Georgia, got injured, missed a lot of playing

981
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 4: time in the past two seasons, starting to get it

982
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 4: back to where he was when he had that great

983
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 4: season that at the West Virginia's got four interceptions this year,

984
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 4: thirty one tackles. He's gonna be a late round pick,

985
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 4: but he's a guy who before his injury, really showed

986
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 4: top one hundred potential.

987
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: Greg Before we get to the safety, what's your overall

988
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: take on the dB class cornerback, safety, Compare the quality,

989
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: the depth top go through the gamut for both those spots.

990
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: This class compared to maybe classes the last few years

991
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: that fans are familiar with.

992
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a really good class. I think

993
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 3: this and just overall, I think a lot of the

994
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,320
Speaker 3: premium positions quarterback, offensive tackle, edge rusher, and then corner

995
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 3: as well.

996
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 2: You can throw that in there. They're pretty strong in

997
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 2: this year's class.

998
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 3: So you might have, you know, some people who say,

999
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 3: like I got you know, two first.

1000
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 2: Round grades onners.

1001
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 3: But even if you do, there's probably a lot of

1002
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 3: names that you have littered around your your day two range.

1003
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 3: But I think you'll also start to talk to people

1004
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 3: who maybe like four corners, five corners potentially in the

1005
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 3: first round, and so like, the talent is there, it's

1006
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 3: just kind of the beauty is in the eye of

1007
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,000
Speaker 3: the beholder. And then for the safety class, you know,

1008
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 3: I don't know if there's this surefire, gotta have them

1009
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 3: safety that's going to be really coveted within the top twenty,

1010
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 3: but I know we'll get to some names coming up.

1011
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 3: I think there's a handful of safeties that can certainly

1012
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 3: be starters at the NFL level, and we don't always

1013
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 3: get that every single year. So there's at least traits

1014
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 3: and players to bet on in both categories. So it

1015
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 3: would make for at least a really exciting year for

1016
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 3: people to follow and get to know these names as

1017
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 3: they see where they end up getting drafted.

1018
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: All right, so let's go to safety, Tony. You don't

1019
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: have a first or second round grade on a safety yet, No,

1020
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 1: not yet, And.

1021
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 4: I mean I think that's because of what a college

1022
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 4: game is being played. I mean, a lot of your

1023
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 4: safeties are now playing linebacker. They're undersized the basically linebackers,

1024
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 4: and a lot of with so many three and four

1025
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 4: receiver sets, you got more corners on the field, then

1026
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 4: you do safety, so the position is really never developed

1027
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 4: on the college level. Then it's rejection on Sunday.

1028
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: Who are the top guys on your list? Who do

1029
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: you like?

1030
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 4: I like both of the Miami Florida kids. James Williams,

1031
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 4: who is an oversized safety. Actually he may end up

1032
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 4: playing a linebacker in the NFL. He's big, he's physical,

1033
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 4: he's got excellent range and his team rate. Cameron Kitchens

1034
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 4: who really probably has better ball skills, a little bit

1035
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 4: more sideline to sideline, a guy who's a little bit

1036
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 4: better over the slot receiver. But again, both of these

1037
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 4: guys I think are late Day two selections lay at

1038
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 4: the next level, but they're not your prototypical in my opinion,

1039
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 4: complete safety, no rangey, free safety, no guy that's going

1040
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,439
Speaker 4: to be consistently no Brian Branches, if you will. From

1041
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 4: what we saw on this past.

1042
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 3: Draft, man, James Williams is bill like a light defensive end.

1043
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 3: He's like six foot five, two hundred and twenty pounds

1044
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,959
Speaker 3: out there. So you talk about box safetyes, guys playing

1045
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 3: more at the linebacker level. He is somebody who you know,

1046
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 3: I kind of want that from him, but I come

1047
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 3: away every time I feel like I watch him. There

1048
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 3: are times when he will be really physical, like if

1049
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,439
Speaker 3: a receiver comes over the middle, or if he's lined

1050
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,399
Speaker 3: up with a running back. Sometimes if I even seen

1051
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 3: this on, like hits on the quarterback, he.

1052
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 2: Will blast you.

1053
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 3: He's got the power of the athleticism to be able

1054
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 3: to do that. But there are other times where you

1055
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 3: know he's got to do the dirty work, kind of

1056
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 3: take it on a block like a pulling guard or

1057
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 3: something like that, where I don't see that pop, Like

1058
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 3: I don't see that strength, And it's like, man, I

1059
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 3: think that I would think more highly of you as

1060
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 3: a box defender, as a box safety because he also

1061
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 3: plays in the slot too. I I would think more

1062
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 3: highly of him if I felt like I.

1063
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 2: Got that strength every down. But I don't.

1064
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:41,959
Speaker 3: And you know, there are even a couple of times

1065
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 3: in his past game that I was watching against Florida State,

1066
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 3: it's like, man, you had the ball carrier almost like

1067
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 3: lined up, you had the right pursuit angle, you had

1068
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 3: him right there. You just kind of didn't decide to

1069
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 3: go all in on the tackle the way that I

1070
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 3: felt like you should have. So he is a very

1071
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 3: talented player frustrating one for me, though, like cam Kinchins

1072
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 3: a lot more. I'm comfortably I have Kitchens higher than

1073
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 3: Williams because Kinchins does have that versatility where he could

1074
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,760
Speaker 3: play free safety for you, he could play strong safety,

1075
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 3: he could play in the slot. He does have some

1076
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 3: free safety ability. I think I'm a little higher on

1077
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 3: his range potential than it sounds like Tony is what

1078
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 3: I need. What I would love to see from Kinchins

1079
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:24,439
Speaker 3: more is even better anticipation because there are times when

1080
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 3: and I understand, like I'm watching it on the film,

1081
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 3: so it's different when you're going through it in real time.

1082
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 2: But there are so many instances where I.

1083
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 3: Go, if you just saw that just a split second,

1084
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,240
Speaker 3: sooner you're making a play on the ball, you're getting

1085
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 3: an interception, or you're making a play when the ball

1086
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 3: gets there and you're probably dislodging it for no catches.

1087
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 3: So he to me has so many He's made a

1088
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 3: lot of great plays. I'm not saying that he hasn't

1089
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,839
Speaker 3: made great plays, but he also, on top of that,

1090
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,479
Speaker 3: has so many almost great plays that that makes me think, hey,

1091
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 3: more experience from this guy, you get him a really

1092
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 3: good secondary coach, Well, you be talking about somebody who's

1093
00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:57,799
Speaker 3: going to be a difference maker.

1094
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: Is Kinchin's your top safety in the class?

1095
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,280
Speaker 3: Strew, Yeah, I've still got Kinches is my top safety.

1096
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 3: I can't wait to see how he tests because there

1097
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 3: are sometimes when I watch him go sideline the sideline,

1098
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 3: I go, Okay, you opened it up there a little bit,

1099
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 3: you got you got some deep speed to you. But

1100
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 3: then there are other times when I'm like, man, I

1101
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 3: thought you I thought you would have had that. I

1102
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 3: thought I thought I could have seen you make an

1103
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 3: impact on the ball on that play.

1104
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: So how he tests athletically, I.

1105
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 3: Think it's going to be huge, because, like Tony mentioned,

1106
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 3: there's not a ton of guys that you feel great

1107
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 3: about when it comes to that center fielder single high athleticism.

1108
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 3: There's one that I think that we'll talk about that

1109
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 3: I'm not worried about, but everybody else is kind of

1110
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 3: a question mark until we get to the combine.

1111
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 1: Tony, you have seven other safeties with third round grades here,

1112
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 1: So I'm just going to leave the table over, But

1113
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: which which one of these guys do you really want

1114
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: to feature? And you would talk about that that you

1115
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 1: really think you're interesting hit as many of them as

1116
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 1: you want.

1117
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 4: Well, let's go with Trevor. I want to hear that

1118
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,360
Speaker 4: one guy that he's really excited to talk about ticket Trevor.

1119
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 3: I think that Kylen Bullock, the safety from USC, is

1120
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 3: the only one that I'm not really worried about at

1121
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 3: all when it comes to a free safety role. Now,

1122
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 3: he is rail thin and he's so he's got to

1123
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 3: gain weight and he's got a game strength. He's got

1124
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 3: to play a lot better because in run defense, his numbers,

1125
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 3: he's got too many misstackles. The run defense grades over

1126
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 3: the last couple of years are way lower than you

1127
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 3: need to be for a safety type of a player.

1128
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 3: To take the word literally, but there are so many

1129
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 3: instances where he's going opposite Hash all the way to

1130
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 3: the sideline to make an impact on the ball where

1131
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 3: you just go, WHOA, Okay, this guy's got legit range

1132
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 3: to him. So the athletic ability is not something that

1133
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 3: I'm worried about with Bullock, but I am worried about

1134
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 3: does he make too many mistakes tackling in run defense

1135
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 3: to even get on the field the way that you

1136
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 3: would want him to be to get to play those

1137
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 3: single high situations.

1138
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:46,919
Speaker 2: So he's the one guy that I'm not really worried

1139
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 2: about at all when it.

1140
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 3: Comes to the athleticism, but it's not a perfect prospect

1141
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 3: in terms of rounding out his entire game.

1142
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: And he was the third guy on Tony's list. By

1143
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: the way, Tony very athletic.

1144
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 4: I think he's got some ability to play over the

1145
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 4: slot receiver on occasion. Decent ball skills, as Trevor was

1146
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 4: pointing out, you know, great speed, great range, but you know, unpolished.

1147
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 4: I like Jayden Hicks of Washington State, same same conference,

1148
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:13,399
Speaker 4: a much bigger guy, very explosive, very quick. It really

1149
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,280
Speaker 4: shows the ability to blow up the ball handler. Decent

1150
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,919
Speaker 4: ball skills facing the action. Tyler Newban, guy who went

1151
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 4: back for a second senior season where he could have

1152
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 4: entered last year's draft. This past aprils draft, I should say,

1153
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 4: you know a guy who's very good in all areas

1154
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 4: but doesn't stand out in any single aspect. I think

1155
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 4: he's more Tyler Newman. I don't know if he's a

1156
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,919
Speaker 4: sideline to sideline safety as opposed to a downhill guy.

1157
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,399
Speaker 4: Guy that you're gonna play in the zone system, and

1158
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 4: that's Andrew mccooba of Clemson. He's got decent traits, but again,

1159
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 4: you know, not your prototypical, not your complete safety. Mccuba Again,

1160
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 4: is he a sideline to sideline guy? I don't think so. Again,

1161
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 4: I think he's better facing the action, more in his

1162
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,920
Speaker 4: zone system, downhill type of safety.

1163
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 3: I love that you that you shouted out Jayden Hicks.

1164
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 3: He was one of my favorite surprises that I had

1165
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,120
Speaker 3: during summer scout. Again, I was doing a little background

1166
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 3: information on I'm reading some stories and I read a

1167
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 3: quote from him where his freshman season at Washington State

1168
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 3: he played I don't want to sound too harsh here,

1169
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 3: but like he played so poorly and not impactfully. Like

1170
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 3: he even says in the interview, I doubted whether or

1171
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 3: not I could play at the Pac twelve level. He's like,

1172
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 3: I didn't even know if I was talented enough to

1173
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 3: play at this level. But I think that didn't turn

1174
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 3: into more self doubt. It turned into motivation for him.

1175
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 3: And that sophomore season in twenty twenty two, you saw

1176
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 3: him not only be a much better playmaker, but a

1177
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:41,839
Speaker 3: much better anticipator and communicator. He's yelling things out. It's

1178
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 3: just a very young player. To the rest of his defense.

1179
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 3: You can tell that he was anticipating where the ball

1180
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,719
Speaker 3: was going. That has only continued in this year. So

1181
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 3: really smart football player. I love the shout out there, mccouba.

1182
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,880
Speaker 3: I kind of feel the same way that you do.

1183
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 3: Is more of a downhill guy, Nuban. I like Newman

1184
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 3: a good amount, but I do feel as though he

1185
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 3: needs to be in primarily a two deep safety system.

1186
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,399
Speaker 3: Like I know that he has played single high free

1187
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 3: safety before because he can anticipate really well. That works

1188
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 3: at the Big ten college level. I don't think he's

1189
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 3: that type of athlete to be able to play those

1190
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 3: roles consistently at the NFL level. But he is smart,

1191
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 3: he anticipates well, he's got good ball skills, and I

1192
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 3: think he's a reliable downhill defender.

1193
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:26,360
Speaker 2: So I agree with you on the role there.

1194
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 3: I think that he's got to be more of a

1195
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 3: two safety system more than a like Cover three. We're

1196
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:33,800
Speaker 3: playing a lot of single high free safety stuff. I

1197
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 3: don't think he necessarily wanted to do that.

1198
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 1: All right, final thing for you, Turev, We've we've got

1199
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: a little over here, a lot of stuff to talk about.

1200
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 1: Just give me one or two other safeties that you

1201
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: really like that they don't have to be your early picks.

1202
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 1: They could be later picks. Guys that you've kind of

1203
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 1: watched that you're like, all right, this guy's got a

1204
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: little something that I really like.

1205
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I'll throw out two really quick. Rod Moore

1206
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 3: from Michigan I liked a decent amount going into the season.

1207
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 3: He missed a good amount of time going into the year,

1208
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 3: so we've really got to see him warm up. We've

1209
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,359
Speaker 3: got some really big game for Michigan to play, I think,

1210
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 3: throughout the stretch of the season, so he has a

1211
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 3: chance to kind of climb the safety room. And then

1212
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 3: somebody that I kind of got on recently is is.

1213
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 2: Billy Bowman junior from Oklahoma.

1214
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 3: I think he's a little boomer bust right now, but

1215
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:14,759
Speaker 3: he is one of those playmakers on the back end

1216
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:18,600
Speaker 3: where if he's been given the room in coverage, he's

1217
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 3: been pretty impactful or at least has a handful of

1218
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 3: plays that he's getting interceptions or he's cutting off a

1219
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 3: route making a big hit on a tight end like

1220
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 3: he did to Jitavian Sanders in that Texas game. And

1221
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 3: so he's just to me he's got that playmaker's mentality.

1222
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 3: It's not totally consistent right now, and you need to

1223
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 3: see a little bit more of it. But I love

1224
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 3: the way that he sees the game, and so he's

1225
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 3: still making mistakes, but I just love that playmaker mentality

1226
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:41,919
Speaker 3: that he has.

1227
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: Tony, I'll give you the final award. You can do

1228
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: safeties or anything else you want to get off your

1229
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: chest before we take it.

1230
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give you one guy, one safety. Malik Mustafa

1231
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:51,279
Speaker 4: of Wake for Us. This is a guy who when

1232
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 4: I watched him, I watch the twenty twenty two film,

1233
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,879
Speaker 4: everyone talks about the cornerback Carson. This was a guy

1234
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:00,080
Speaker 4: that was constantly around the ball, making plays against the

1235
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 4: past stuff in the run five six pounds. Has got

1236
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,760
Speaker 4: great instincts. I mean, the guy knows what's gonna happen

1237
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:11,520
Speaker 4: before it even happens, doesn't have any mental letdowns on

1238
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 4: the field. You know, when we had Ruce Feldman on

1239
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 4: one of the first shows of the season, he said

1240
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 4: that Mustafa is going to test through the roofs. I

1241
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 4: think through the roof I think Mustafa is going to

1242
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 4: be a guy who's going to be underdrafted. And then

1243
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,959
Speaker 4: during the twenty twenty four season. People are gonna wonder

1244
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 4: why this guy was in the top forty five selection.

1245
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 1: All right, Trevor, tell the folks when think you'll find

1246
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 1: all the stuff you're doing.

1247
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 3: Uh NFL Stocky Change. You shouted out the NFL Stocky

1248
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 3: Change podcast. We're not only audio, but we're also on

1249
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 3: video on YouTube as well for anybody that takes in

1250
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:44,320
Speaker 3: a lot of their content and video format.

1251
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:45,800
Speaker 2: And then of course PFF dot com.

1252
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 3: We've got the big board that we're updating all the time,

1253
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 3: and if you want to make the mock drafts, of

1254
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 3: course the mock draft simulator that we have there, so

1255
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 3: just keep checking back in on that one and we're

1256
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:55,839
Speaker 3: adding names to it all the time so you guys

1257
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 3: can have as much fun on the mock as possible.

1258
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 1: Tony tried this a lot of fun boys, happy scouting,

1259
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: rest of the way.

1260
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 2: Appreciate it for Trevor.

1261
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: For Tony, I'm Josh Broum. Thanks for being with us

1262
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: on draft season. We'll see you next time. Everybody