Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties,
Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big
Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they
Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. Wherever
Speaker 1: you are in the world, it is so great to
Speaker 1: have you here, back for another episode as we break
Speaker 1: down the Psychology of Your Twenties. It is December, which
Speaker 1: means it is the guest season of the podcast, and
Speaker 1: today we're bringing on someone who has actually been here before,
Speaker 1: who I'm actually a massive fan of. I would say
Speaker 1: we're friends, she can say, she can confirm all tonight,
Speaker 1: but I feel like, if you don't know who list
Speaker 1: is and her podcast, date yourself instead, what are you doing?
Speaker 1: She is incredible, She is amazing, and she is here
Speaker 1: today to talk about how we can stop getting attached
Speaker 1: so quickly. Liz, thank you so much for coming on again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for having me again. I'm so excited,
Speaker 2: and I know it's the most cozy time of year
Speaker 2: and everyone's getting prepared for the holidays. I'm very excited
Speaker 2: to be here. I'm also very jealous that it's actually
Speaker 2: summer where you are and freezing cold where I am.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, but by the time I'm by the
Speaker 1: time this is released, I will be where you are
Speaker 1: as well, so we can suffer together in the New
Speaker 1: York winter.
Speaker 2: Yes, but New York is absolutely amazing during the holiday season,
Speaker 2: so I'm really excited for you to come.
Speaker 1: I am as well. I feel like I'm hoping for
Speaker 1: a white Christmas fingers crossed. We will see what it brings.
Speaker 1: But I feel like, if you're listening to this and
Speaker 1: you have not listened to the first episode we did together,
Speaker 1: which was like back at the start of the year,
Speaker 1: pause and go and listen to that first.
Speaker 3: Because it is very, very good.
Speaker 1: But do you want to tell people kind of what
Speaker 1: you do the basis for your show, because I feel
Speaker 1: like for those of the listeners who are if you
Speaker 1: are single right now, if you are someone who is
Speaker 1: trying to date in your twenties or your thirties or beyond,
Speaker 1: who is struggling with self worth, with actually investing in
Speaker 1: yourself and investing in the right people, what do you
Speaker 1: talk about on your show?
Speaker 2: List I talk about all things self love, healing. If
Speaker 2: you're going through a breakup, if you're going through a
Speaker 2: hard time. The reason I created the date Yourself Instead
Speaker 2: movement was to really just put the focus back on yourself,
Speaker 2: especially if you are coming out of a breakup, you
Speaker 2: can often lose yourself or forget who you were before
Speaker 2: you met that person. And it was inspired by my
Speaker 2: own breakup, and a lot of the messaging is just
Speaker 2: centered around knowing yourself, knowing your worth, stepping into your power.
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm really excited to talk about this
Speaker 2: particular topic today, all about attachment, because it ties in
Speaker 2: perfectly to pretty much everything I talk about.
Speaker 3: Also, I feel like a lot of our episodes overlap.
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially the dating episodes, because I think that when
Speaker 1: we talk about attachment in our twenties, it is really
Speaker 1: at the root of a lot of the I would say,
Speaker 1: like love conundrums that we come across, right, the fact
Speaker 1: that there are some of us out there, like the
Speaker 1: hopeless romantics, the sentimental, the sensitive, who, no matter how
Speaker 1: hard we try, get attached way too quickly to another person,
Speaker 1: project this whole like fantasy onto this individual that we
Speaker 1: might not even know yet. You know, when I was single,
Speaker 1: I remember like going on like one or two dates
Speaker 1: with someone and being like yeah, so like wedding will
Speaker 1: probably be in June, you know, for summer, and like
Speaker 1: hopefully he's okay if we call our kids this. And
Speaker 1: I don't think that it helps you, Like, I don't
Speaker 1: think it helps you. I don't think it helps the relationship.
Speaker 1: It makes you so much more invested and more likely
Speaker 1: to be hurt early on, and it doesn't really let
Speaker 1: the relationship develop. But I think that we can know
Speaker 1: all of these things about us, right, Like we can
Speaker 1: understand that this is our patent, this is our habit
Speaker 1: and relationships, this is part of who we are to
Speaker 1: get attached and not really know what to do about it.
Speaker 1: So why do you think that we get attached too quickly?
Speaker 1: Like what are some of the major reasons that you've identified?
Speaker 2: You know, I'm the type of person who used to
Speaker 2: get so overly attached and I knew I was getting
Speaker 2: attached to the wrong person all the time, but it
Speaker 2: was really out of fear. And I talk about this
Speaker 2: a lot, like when you are alone and you really
Speaker 2: miss having someone in your life and you miss having
Speaker 2: a partner, and then you meet someone new that has
Speaker 2: some slight potential. You kind of grasp onto it because
Speaker 2: you're like, oh my god, you know, we like the
Speaker 2: same foods and we had a lot in common on
Speaker 2: the first date, and maybe this could go somewhere, and
Speaker 2: we fantasize and project this fantasy onto that person with
Speaker 2: out really knowing anything about them. If we're coming from
Speaker 2: a place of fear that we're going to be alone forever,
Speaker 2: I think it's out of you're operating out of fear essentially,
Speaker 2: when you laugh yourself onto someone that you don't even
Speaker 2: know that well, or maybe you know you've only been
Speaker 2: on a couple of dates, and you're like, this is
Speaker 2: the one, when in reality, I mean, sometimes they can
Speaker 2: be the one, sometimes it can work out, but oftentimes
Speaker 2: I just remember getting myself into a lot of situations,
Speaker 2: and even a situation I came out of recently where
Speaker 2: I saw bits and pieces of potential, and just because
Speaker 2: I'm alone and I wasn't really seeing anyone else, I
Speaker 2: latched onto this idea of them that wasn't even real.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people can relate to that.
Speaker 1: It's like the fantasy bonding, right, You're not falling in
Speaker 1: love with who this person is in reality, you're falling
Speaker 1: in love with a version of them that you've created
Speaker 1: in your head that you are that is like the
Speaker 1: perfect person for you, right, especially like when you said,
Speaker 1: you're operating from a place of fear where a lot
Speaker 1: of us have this intrinsic I think intrinsic anxiety and
Speaker 1: worry that we will be alone forever. And maybe part
Speaker 1: of preventing yourself from getting attached so quickly is understanding
Speaker 1: that that might not actually be the worst thing in
Speaker 1: the world. You know, it's not a death. Like not
Speaker 1: finding someone before thirty or before forty or before fifty
Speaker 1: does not mean that your life will not have meaning,
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you can't still be a very content
Speaker 1: and happy person. Do you think that that's also part
Speaker 1: of the fear, like the fear that to not have
Speaker 1: a partner means that your life is kind of wasted
Speaker 1: or that you're missing out on something.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: I think the feeling of love, if you've gotten a
Speaker 2: taste of it before, it's something that we're constantly chasing
Speaker 2: because that high, like when you're first getting to know
Speaker 2: someone and it actually starts working. If you've been in
Speaker 2: love before, I think it's easy to want that again
Speaker 2: and again and kind of you know, search for it
Speaker 2: and look for it again and again, and you know,
Speaker 2: I think that's a part of the process of everything.
Speaker 2: Like I think there's no shame in trying to like
Speaker 2: seek out those good feelings and seek out those emotions
Speaker 2: that could make you want to feel like you're in
Speaker 2: love again. But at the same time, yeah, I think
Speaker 2: it often comes, like love comes and anything comes in life,
Speaker 2: when you're most grounded in your own frame and you're
Speaker 2: focused on yourself and you become more magnetic when you're
Speaker 2: just centered and you're not actively trying to seek all
Speaker 2: of these things. And that's why when we were talking
Speaker 2: about before, like when you met your boyfriend, it's like
Speaker 2: when you aren't really looking for it and you kind
Speaker 2: of least expect it, but at the same time, you're
Speaker 2: open to opportunity. Like it's not completely closing yourself off
Speaker 2: from anything. It's just kind of going with the flow
Speaker 2: and trusting the process. And that's why I always say, like,
Speaker 2: trust the process and I have that tattoo because it's
Speaker 2: kind of like a way to not keep that resistance
Speaker 2: and you know, if you're wanting something too badly, it's
Speaker 2: almost blocking you from actually finding the right person. And
Speaker 2: when you attach yourself to people that aren't good for
Speaker 2: you, you're often kind of blocking what could actually be good
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 1: I one hundred percent agree with that one hundred percent
Speaker 1: because I think that when you are when you are
Speaker 1: overlooking parts of someone that you know are not good
Speaker 1: for you just because you want connection, just because you
Speaker 1: want intimacy, what you're really doing is kind of abandoning
Speaker 1: yourself for the for someone else's gain. Right, you're abandoning
Speaker 1: yourself and putting up with someone else's behavior that you
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't tolerate from the love of your life. I
Speaker 1: saw this thing the other day that was like, the
Speaker 1: love of your life would not treat you the way
Speaker 1: that you're being treated, So stop confusing I think attachment
Speaker 1: with love or with actual connection. And also, when when
Speaker 1: you're able to identify exactly what you want, exactly who
Speaker 1: you are, there is this confidence to you that means
Speaker 1: that you will suddenly attract so many people who are
Speaker 1: much better options, and people will actually be able to
Speaker 1: know you as who you are. And I think knowing
Speaker 1: yourself for who you are means that that unconditional love
Speaker 1: that we expect from others is going to be true, right,
Speaker 1: It's not going to be based on a fantasy they
Speaker 1: have a view either or a fantasy that you have
Speaker 1: of them, because you're really like centered and grounded in
Speaker 1: your own reality and in what in your own expectations
Speaker 1: and in your own sensive self.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: And I think it's easier said than done, too, because
Speaker 2: there's a lot of times where you know, I create
Speaker 2: these boundaries for myself, and I create really high standards
Speaker 2: for myself in my head. And sometimes if you just
Speaker 2: tell yourself, yeah, like I'm not going to tolerate this,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to tolerate that, it's not really that
Speaker 2: effective because words are words.
Speaker 3: You really have to feel it and believe it.
Speaker 2: You know, you really have to be in a place
Speaker 2: in your life where you're actually grounded and you actually
Speaker 2: have worked on yourself a lot and healed so many
Speaker 2: parts of yourself that you know that you will not
Speaker 2: settle for.
Speaker 3: Anything less than what you deserve.
Speaker 2: And I was humbled recently from a situation where you know,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to talk about this on my own
Speaker 2: podcast at some point, but like.
Speaker 3: I'll say it on here.
Speaker 2: Also, I was in a situation recently where I got
Speaker 2: attached to this idea of the potential of what something
Speaker 2: could be with a person that kept convincing me that
Speaker 2: he was going to change, and anytime I would bring
Speaker 2: something up, you know, I would see bits and pieces
Speaker 2: of potential where he was treating me right at certain points,
Speaker 2: and he was doing and saying the right things at
Speaker 2: certain points, but there were so many other problems and
Speaker 2: I would overlook it because I got attached to the fantasy.
Speaker 2: And it's such a common thing because when you want
Speaker 2: to see the good in people and when you want
Speaker 2: love and you are a loving person, it's easy to
Speaker 2: latch on and there's no shame in it, but it
Speaker 2: just it's there to teach you a valuable lesson about,
Speaker 2: you know, really putting all that energy into yourself versus
Speaker 2: externally throwing it at someone else that doesn't deserve it.
Speaker 2: And I think I learned that through a lot of
Speaker 2: my situationships and relationships in general.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but you get to like a good point
Speaker 1: where it's like these relationships are not a waste, right,
Speaker 1: Like they are teaching you something. I used to be
Speaker 1: like every person who breaks my heart, every person where
Speaker 1: it doesn't work, is just one step closer to someone
Speaker 1: who will. And if you poured all of that love
Speaker 1: and all of that energy and that intimacy and that
Speaker 1: time into the wrong person, imagine how amazing it's gonna
Speaker 1: be when when it's with the right person. Like, imagine
Speaker 1: how like it's just gonna be. It's and I know
Speaker 1: this to be true, Like it's insane, and it's the
Speaker 1: best feeling when the love that you've always shown people
Speaker 1: that's never been reciprocated is finally reciprocated and you realize
Speaker 1: what true attachment and true connection and true can patibility
Speaker 1: actually feels like, rather than getting caught up in the
Speaker 1: intensity in the fantasy, in like the anxiety of pursuing
Speaker 1: someone who doesn't want you back. Because I also think
Speaker 1: that sometimes we confuse a lot of that anxiety with
Speaker 1: excitement and with chemistry. I don't know if you do this,
Speaker 1: but I think that it's just they feel very similar
Speaker 1: in our bodies, and so we confuse the sensations and
Speaker 1: that creates this very instantaneous attachment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think my rule now with my
Speaker 2: emotions is if I'm at all uncomfortable, anxious and worried,
Speaker 2: within the first few dates. It's a hard no, like
Speaker 2: your gut will tell you almost instantly if it's not
Speaker 2: gonna work, and well, at least for me, I truly
Speaker 2: believe that. And I did this survey on my Instagram
Speaker 2: a while ago that was asking people who were in
Speaker 2: serious relationships or married how they knew their person was
Speaker 2: the one and they weren't just getting, you know, attached
Speaker 2: to some random person. And almost every response said I
Speaker 2: felt a sense of peace and calm like I had
Speaker 2: never experienced before, where I felt safe, my nervous system
Speaker 2: felt at peace and at ease, and it was something
Speaker 2: that I didn't know existed. And I was like shocked,
Speaker 2: like so many people had the same answer, and I
Speaker 2: was really thinking about I'm like, I don't know if
Speaker 2: I've ever actually experienced that, and that's something that I'm
Speaker 2: looking forward to now, because we tend to get attached
Speaker 2: to people that make us anxious, especially if we're anxious
Speaker 2: attached people like I'm an I have anxious attachment style.
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but I'm an anxious attached person.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of easier to spot when something's not
Speaker 2: working for me early on now and I know that
Speaker 2: I need to detach myself and remove from the situation quickly.
Speaker 1: Hmm, that's actually such a good point, Like I'm gonna say,
Speaker 1: I feel I feel that way now where everyone used
Speaker 1: to always say to me love is meant to be easy,
Speaker 1: and it's meant to be calm, and it's meant to
Speaker 1: be peaceful. And I was like, that sounds really boring.
Speaker 1: I really honestly thought that. I was like, that sounds boring.
Speaker 1: I'm used to like the spark. I'm used to like
Speaker 1: this intense passion that is so self destructive and will
Speaker 1: burn out your relationship. And I think sometimes we meet
Speaker 1: those people right who could be the one who could
Speaker 1: really fulfill us, but we sabotage the relationship because we
Speaker 1: have gotten so used to this pattern of people who
Speaker 1: have made us feel a certain way that we don't
Speaker 1: really trust our first impression. We see someone as boring,
Speaker 1: we might see someone as not really our type because
Speaker 1: we are expecting this like firework of feelings, when really
Speaker 1: what you should be looking for is the person who,
Speaker 1: of course you have so much fun with and who
Speaker 1: sees you and who you're excited by, but who also
Speaker 1: at the end the day, does not leave you questioning
Speaker 1: whether they actually want to be with you, and if
Speaker 1: you were to, like, it's the you should not be
Speaker 1: sitting there being like does this person actually like me?
Speaker 1: The moment that you are asking yourself that question, a
Speaker 1: the answer is no. Be The second part of that
Speaker 1: is you need to run, like you need to cut
Speaker 1: that person out because I think that, like, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you've had that experience, but I'm like, that
Speaker 1: is not a good sign for the start of a relationship.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Well, the experience I just recently went through
Speaker 2: with someone, it was dragged out for five.
Speaker 3: Full months and five months five months of my time.
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, a lot of the time I wasn't
Speaker 2: physically together with him, like we live in different countries.
Speaker 2: I barely saw him throughout those five months. But it
Speaker 2: was a lot of texting, communication, whatever. And it's still energy.
Speaker 2: You know, it's still your time, and it's still your
Speaker 2: feelings at play, and it's still your emotions. So you know,
Speaker 2: I always say like, your time and your energy towards
Speaker 2: someone is your currency, and it's really true, because I
Speaker 2: started getting a little too invested and I would try
Speaker 2: to make shit work all the time with him where
Speaker 2: it was like I was like, okay, you know, I'm here,
Speaker 2: you're there, what's going on?
Speaker 3: Like, do you want to talk? Whatever?
Speaker 2: And he would just always find a way to make
Speaker 2: it difficult, right, and then once I pulled back, he
Speaker 2: would try to get me reattached.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It was one of those games where it was like
Speaker 2: I would kind of detach myself and remove and say,
Speaker 2: you know what, f this, I'm out and he would
Speaker 2: be like, oh, no, talk to me. I want to
Speaker 2: talk through it, what's going on, and manipulate me back
Speaker 2: into the situation. I think that's why a lot of
Speaker 2: people hold on, and that's why I'm bringing it up
Speaker 2: right now because maybe it could help someone like. You know,
Speaker 2: people will find a way to keep you holding on
Speaker 2: even if they don't want you, and it has to
Speaker 2: be up to you to cut the court and walk away.
Speaker 2: And eventually I did, and I cut the cord and
Speaker 2: I said, you know, this is my life, this is
Speaker 2: my feelings, this is like, you know, my energy and
Speaker 2: my time, and if you're not valuing that and you're
Speaker 2: playing this game with me where you just want me around,
Speaker 2: but you're not actually going to see any sort of
Speaker 2: future with me, what the hell am I doing?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: So I think a lot of people could probably relate
Speaker 2: to that situation because people will want you to be
Speaker 2: attached to them. People will want you to hold onto them,
Speaker 2: and they'll feed you this idea that maybe it could work,
Speaker 2: and it's so relatable, and you know, even someone who
Speaker 2: has a dating podcast like I literally talk about this
Speaker 2: and give advice about this. It is easier said than
Speaker 2: done when you're in a situation where there's a connection,
Speaker 2: so you know, but you learn from it and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I feel like it's made me even better and stronger,
Speaker 2: and I'm like happy, and it's all good. But it's
Speaker 2: a it's very common.
Speaker 1: It's this thing right where it's not that that person
Speaker 1: didn't know what he had. He was very aware of
Speaker 1: what he had. That is why he was constantly trying
Speaker 1: to bring you back in. Maybe he was obsessed with
Speaker 1: the chase that made him feel like it was worth it.
Speaker 1: He knew what he had, he just didn't know how
Speaker 1: to He didn't know what to do with it, and
Speaker 1: he didn't want to He didn't want to treat you
Speaker 1: in the way that you deserved, right. I think that
Speaker 1: sometimes when we encounter these people who aren't willing to commit,
Speaker 1: or who act in the way that this man was acting.
Speaker 1: Trash man, that's such terrible behavior. But when we meet
Speaker 1: people who act in that way, we think that for
Speaker 1: them to fully want us would be the biggest, biggest
Speaker 1: sign to us that we are worth something. And so
Speaker 1: it's not just about attachment. It's also about our sense
Speaker 1: of self esteem, and it's about our sense of self
Speaker 1: value and our sense of value as a person, where
Speaker 1: we think, okay, well, if this person doesn't want me,
Speaker 1: if this person isn't willing to treat me the way
Speaker 1: that I deserve, what does that say about me? And
Speaker 1: so you become obsessed with almost winning them over or
Speaker 1: proving to them that they should change or they should
Speaker 1: treat you differently, because that kind of journey, that kind
Speaker 1: of convincing is a proxy for you trying to convince
Speaker 1: yourself that you have value. If this person believes it,
Speaker 1: you can finally believe it. And there are people out
Speaker 1: there who unfortunately understand that and understand that they can
Speaker 1: have that impact on people and who use it. And
Speaker 1: I think I know that you and I are both
Speaker 1: very like romantic and sensitive people. I think that's like
Speaker 1: a brilliant, brilliant thing. But do you think that also
Speaker 1: is one of the reasons why people get attached a
Speaker 1: little bit too quickly.
Speaker 2: I think if you're a very loving person and you're
Speaker 2: very vulnerable, and you're sensitive as a person, and you know,
Speaker 2: a lot of women.
Speaker 3: Are, I.
Speaker 2: Mean a lot of people are. I'm not going to
Speaker 2: just pin it on women. A lot of people in
Speaker 2: general are. But I think for me, I'm just speaking
Speaker 2: from my experience. I think I have a hard, you know, shell, maybe,
Speaker 2: but I'm really soft and I try to give people
Speaker 2: as many chances as I can because I just, you know,
Speaker 2: and you're the same way. Probably you just want to
Speaker 2: see the good in people because we're good people. And
Speaker 2: a lot of people are like that, where they're good
Speaker 2: people and they want to believe that the other person
Speaker 2: on the other end of their situationship or relationship is
Speaker 2: the same way.
Speaker 3: That they are. But that's really not often the case.
Speaker 2: You know, when you're in a situation where you're latching
Speaker 2: onto someone and they know what they have and they're
Speaker 2: not able to value it, but they still want to
Speaker 2: keep you around. I think it's easy for sensitive people
Speaker 2: who love very deeply to get taken advantage of I do, unfortunately.
Speaker 2: But I also think, as you mentioned earlier about you know,
Speaker 2: knowing your worth and having a really good self concept
Speaker 2: of yourself, that's the key to attracting better people into
Speaker 2: your life. And I think a lot of why we
Speaker 2: attach ourselves to people is also related to low self esteem.
Speaker 2: And I'm not gonna lie. I tend to get insecure,
Speaker 2: especially when it comes to love. I tend to nitpick
Speaker 2: myself internally, and that's something I'm working on now, and
Speaker 2: it's something I've been working on for a while where
Speaker 2: I want to wake up every day feeling so insanely
Speaker 2: confident that I know one hundred percent what I have
Speaker 2: to offer all the time. But there's a lot of
Speaker 2: people in my past who have chiseled away at that
Speaker 2: version of me that I want to be. So if
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, I'm amazing, I'm beautiful, I'm the best.
Speaker 3: I've had a lot of guys try to like break that.
Speaker 2: Down, and because I'm sensitive and I let them in,
Speaker 2: it's affected me, you know, where they say, oh, you know,
Speaker 2: go put on makeup, or like I've had guys tell
Speaker 2: me that or like sorry, I'm not like laughing because
Speaker 2: it's fun. I'm laughing because it's absolutely insane, or like
Speaker 2: shock yeah, or like you know, I've had guys coming
Speaker 2: on my weight before, like I don't know why, they
Speaker 2: just have and I'm like, okay, this is making me uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: Or I've had guys tell me I'm not worth a
Speaker 2: certain you know, amount of money, or like if they
Speaker 2: take me out, they expect me to pay for everything,
Speaker 2: things like that, where it's made me feel like garbage
Speaker 2: because I'm like, okay, am I not worth like a
Speaker 2: five dollar coffee? So you know, it's just about learning
Speaker 2: how to build yourself up again and have that like unbreakable,
Speaker 2: unshakable self confidence, and then you'll probably attract better people
Speaker 2: into your life.
Speaker 1: I also think that those experiences, right, it's so hard
Speaker 1: when it's so unfair. It's not just hard, it's unfair
Speaker 1: when you have to undo the damage that someone else
Speaker 1: has done, when someone has like come into your heart,
Speaker 1: come into your so come into your life, and then
Speaker 1: like I'm going to make a mess of this just
Speaker 1: for fun, Like I'm going to chisel down this person's confidence.
Speaker 1: I think because they understand that, then you're more reliant
Speaker 1: on them for your confidence, so they have more control
Speaker 1: of you. Maybe they don't realize it, maybe you don't
Speaker 1: realize it, but I think that I've seen that in
Speaker 1: my own life so many times, and it's just it
Speaker 1: is unfair to be like, Okay, well, now this experience
Speaker 1: is a part of me, and it's not something that
Speaker 1: I'm I'm ever going to forget. It's not something that
Speaker 1: I'm not going to think of of time to time.
Speaker 1: But I do think that your point of like, you
Speaker 1: need to become almost like this, You need to become
Speaker 1: this like impenetrable kind of fortress of like self love
Speaker 1: and self worth and confidence where you're like, your opinion
Speaker 1: of me, how you choose to treat me, has absolutely
Speaker 1: nothing to do with who I am, because when you
Speaker 1: think about it, there are millions of people out there
Speaker 1: who sometimes we don't we don't give them a chance,
Speaker 1: or we just haven't met them yet, who would treat
Speaker 1: you amazingly. It's this like it's this metaphor of like,
Speaker 1: your worth stays the same, it's just how much someone
Speaker 1: else values it and what kind of price you're willing
Speaker 1: to take. Like I saw this analogy that was like
Speaker 1: a bottle of water. You know, at the grocery store
Speaker 1: is like is a dollar a bottle of water at
Speaker 1: Like the airport is like six dollars, Like a bottle
Speaker 1: of water, Like a concert is like twelve dollars. Like
Speaker 1: the water remains the same, Like it's the same product.
Speaker 1: But it's where you're valued. It's where there is demand
Speaker 1: for the kind of person that you are. And I
Speaker 1: think some part of us, when we have gone through
Speaker 1: a lot of dating experiences where we have been rejected,
Speaker 1: shut down, we have fallen into this pattern of looking
Speaker 1: for the same kind of people, we really forget that
Speaker 1: and we forget that there are actually so many people
Speaker 1: out there who would value us with who we are.
Speaker 1: So what are some of the signs of someone who
Speaker 1: is worth emotionally attaching to, who is worth that effort
Speaker 1: and who you think is like I know with this
Speaker 1: whole episode is like how to not get attached too quickly?
Speaker 1: Sometimes though there are people who you have a gut
Speaker 1: instinct to write for you like, what are some of
Speaker 1: the distinctions do you think between the people you should
Speaker 1: absolutely avoid in the people who you should kind of
Speaker 1: be willing to be more vulnerable with.
Speaker 2: Ooh, I think someone who understands your emotions early on,
Speaker 2: you don't have to explain yourself. It's just easy, you know,
Speaker 2: it just flows the communication that is there. They understand
Speaker 2: who you are and what you're about early on in
Speaker 2: the relationship where they can, you know, kind of understand
Speaker 2: your needs and respect them and respect your boundaries. I
Speaker 2: think respect and having a mutual respect early on for
Speaker 2: one another is such a green flag. And you know, consistency,
Speaker 2: I think a really big thing for me personally. What
Speaker 2: I've seen and the people that I've ended up in
Speaker 2: serious relationships with is they were always consistent. They knew
Speaker 2: exactly what they wanted, and they were like, it's you,
Speaker 2: you know, it's you. You're the one, and I want
Speaker 2: to date you. And everyone deserves that. Everyone deserves that
Speaker 2: feeling of being wanted. And there's nothing wrong with wanting
Speaker 2: that feeling of being wanted. But you know, I think
Speaker 2: we often try to convince ourselves out of things that
Speaker 2: we try to convince ourselves of things that are maybe
Speaker 2: not necessarily good for us.
Speaker 3: We try to.
Speaker 2: Justify why things can change all the time, and we
Speaker 2: try to make up stories in our head and fantasize like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe once he's done with work. You know,
Speaker 2: he said, works busy for the next two months, maybe
Speaker 2: things will get better after that. Or you know, I've
Speaker 2: heard that excuse many times. Oh, I'm busy with work,
Speaker 2: and you know, I'm not really looking for a relationship
Speaker 2: at this time, but I will be. It's a very
Speaker 2: common excuse or like you know, just things like that
Speaker 2: where no one's making excuses about wanting to be with
Speaker 2: you or see you. Someone who can make a plan
Speaker 2: and want to see you and want to be around you,
Speaker 2: because if you like someone, you're going to want to
Speaker 2: spend time with them. That's just a natural human instinct.
Speaker 2: Those are all green flags me where I'm like, yes, okay,
Speaker 2: you want to see me, you want to talk to me,
Speaker 2: Everything feels emotionally safe, huge, huge for me at least,
Speaker 2: indicators that it's moving in the right direction.
Speaker 1: What about you, Well, I actually was listening to that
Speaker 1: being like, yeah, I completely agree one hundred percent. On
Speaker 1: the one other one I would say, which I think
Speaker 1: actually links to what you were talking about, is they
Speaker 1: don't just want you on their terms, because I think
Speaker 1: that that example that you gave of, oh, works really busy.
Speaker 1: I don't want to date you, but also yeah, please
Speaker 1: come over five nights a week and like, come and
Speaker 1: hang out with me. It's like that is them giving.
Speaker 1: That is then basically being like I want you on
Speaker 1: my terms. I want you when it's convenient for me.
Speaker 1: I don't care about you, I don't care about what
Speaker 1: you need from me. Yeah, it's like it's so common,
Speaker 1: I think, especially like in guys who are like twenty,
Speaker 1: like early thirties, where I get it right, like it's
Speaker 1: not it might not be a huge priority for them,
Speaker 1: but there are people out there who it would be
Speaker 1: a priority. Who's seeing you would be a priority, who
Speaker 1: spending time with you would be a priority, And it
Speaker 1: wouldn't just be based on like what their schedule looks like,
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't just be based on like how their
Speaker 1: life is going right now. They would make space for
Speaker 1: you to be there. And then I also think the
Speaker 1: other thing is being really clear about the future.
Speaker 3: There is no like, oh yeah.
Speaker 1: Ambiguity around the fact that you are in their future
Speaker 1: with them, So then being like oh, you know, and
Speaker 1: even as small as being like, oh, next week, we
Speaker 1: should go to this museum or I really want to
Speaker 1: go to this restaurant we should go, or being like
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna go. Yeah, Like hey, like you know, Christmas,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go see my parents, Like what are you
Speaker 1: doing for Christmas? Like there is a sense of like
Speaker 1: continuity there, it's not any And I think that's really important,
Speaker 1: especially if you are someone who is anxious, because you're
Speaker 1: not constantly trying to anticipate when the relationship is going
Speaker 1: to end.
Speaker 3: This person, Oh my god, I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they have like it's true right, Like they
Speaker 1: have enough respect for you to make you feel comfortable
Speaker 1: that the relationship is going somewhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: Like I remember when I got into my last relationship.
Speaker 2: I was shocked by how forward and how much effort
Speaker 2: he was making. And I was like, wait, this is normal,
Speaker 2: Like this is what normal is. I don't have to
Speaker 2: decipher what he's trying to say and question if he
Speaker 2: likes me. He was literally from the He was like
Speaker 2: I want to hang out with you, I want to
Speaker 2: take you to dinner, I want to see you. And
Speaker 2: he was constantly following up about plans and making an
Speaker 2: effort so like so many times, and I was the
Speaker 2: one blowing him off. You know, like I was the
Speaker 2: one saying I'm busy, I have plans because I was scared.
Speaker 2: I was like, what is this like? Is this man
Speaker 2: mentally stable? Like I thought he was the problem at
Speaker 2: first because I had never experienced what it's like to
Speaker 2: actually be wanted in a healthy way, which is crazy
Speaker 2: to think about. I mean I did have other boyfriends
Speaker 2: before that were pretty straightforward, but there was a little
Speaker 2: more effort involved. But with him, it was just it
Speaker 2: was so forward and it was so easy. And I
Speaker 2: learned so much from that relationship because he always knew
Speaker 2: what he wanted and it was it was like too easy.
Speaker 2: It was it just felt so good. And I remember
Speaker 2: he would always include me and his plans. He would
Speaker 2: always make me a part of his life. He would say,
Speaker 2: do you want to meet my friends? Do you want
Speaker 2: to come to my party that I'm having with the
Speaker 2: people that I know?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: He always made me a part of his circle from
Speaker 2: the beginning, and that's how I knew it was different.
Speaker 2: I knew it was different right away because I was like,
Speaker 2: he wants me to meet his friends on day two, Like,
Speaker 2: what's happening right now? I think a lot of people
Speaker 2: I want to say men. Some people get like annoyed,
Speaker 2: like saying like men and women whatever. But I really
Speaker 2: do believe, like if we're talking from a male perspective,
Speaker 2: they kind of know instantly if they want to be
Speaker 2: with you, and maybe that's not the best you know.
Speaker 2: I obviously I know it doesn't apply to every relationship,
Speaker 2: because every relationship has a different course.
Speaker 3: But I truly believe.
Speaker 2: For the most part, a man kind of knows what
Speaker 2: he wants within the first couple of dates.
Speaker 1: I also think that men in particular do not face
Speaker 1: the same societal pressure that women do to settle. So
Speaker 1: I think that that's something that we can take, right,
Speaker 1: It's something that we can take from them. That's why
Speaker 1: they know instantly. That's why they know whether they like
Speaker 1: someone or not, is because they are not also to navigate. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm like, they're also not trying to navigate, like the
Speaker 1: sense of like, oh, you know, better find someone by thirty,
Speaker 1: like my biological clock is ticking, or I don't want
Speaker 1: to be a spinster, or I don't want to end
Speaker 1: up alone, or all my friends are in relationships. Like
Speaker 1: women have been so indoctrinated by society and have learnt
Speaker 1: so much about how they deserve to be treated from
Speaker 1: like almost a deficit mindset where the thing that you
Speaker 1: need most is a relationship, whereas for men, the thing
Speaker 1: that they need most is like career success or like
Speaker 1: financial stability. And as much as we think that like
Speaker 1: that has changed, there is still that is still very
Speaker 1: implicit in how we are raised. It's very implicit in
Speaker 1: the world we see around us. So I think that's
Speaker 1: why men are so much so much better able to
Speaker 1: make those kind of judgment calls. Also, I love that
Speaker 1: he like introduced you to his friends. I always say,
Speaker 1: they should be treating you the way that you want
Speaker 1: to be treating them, right, So if you're someone who
Speaker 1: is like I really want you to meet my friends
Speaker 1: and they're not doing that, there is an imbalance there.
Speaker 1: Like that's also a very easy way to say it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I hadn't really thought too deeply into it.
Speaker 2: And like I remember when I first, you know, started
Speaker 2: hanging out with him, he was just so inclusive, like
Speaker 2: he just made me feel wanted and appreciated, and.
Speaker 3: He wanted to show me off. That was it.
Speaker 2: It was like he wanted to put me on a
Speaker 2: pedestal and say, look, at her, this is the person
Speaker 2: I'm with, And I had never had that before. I
Speaker 2: had never really had someone that was so proud to
Speaker 2: be next to me. And I think that's what it
Speaker 2: taught me, is like there are people out there that
Speaker 2: will be so proud to show you off and be
Speaker 2: next to you and be like, this is the person
Speaker 2: I'm with, Like I'm so proud to be dating them.
Speaker 2: And I always felt that sense of like I was
Speaker 2: proud to be dating him also, you know, it was
Speaker 2: like a mutual exchange of like.
Speaker 3: We were both proud to be each other's partners.
Speaker 2: And I think that's such a good feeling because you're like,
Speaker 2: I love the qualities that you have, and I'm not
Speaker 2: embarrassed to be out in public with you because there's
Speaker 2: been people that have treated me badly, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: if I run into someone I know and they know
Speaker 2: what's going on with this situationship, it's like that it
Speaker 2: makes me look bad because I'm like tolerating someone that
Speaker 2: you know, won't commit to me or whatever. And my
Speaker 2: friends know if they see me out, they're gonna shit
Speaker 2: on me for being with this person, you know. But
Speaker 2: with him, I remember I was like I want the
Speaker 2: people in my life to know how amazing he is.
Speaker 2: And I think he, you know, he felt the same
Speaker 2: way about me. So it ended up being a really
Speaker 2: good relationship, but it also set the standard. So now
Speaker 2: it's like, that's what I want times one hundred, Like,
Speaker 2: if I'm gonna get married to someone, my husband better
Speaker 2: be shouting my name from the rooftops in New York City.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know minimum you know that's saying in friends
Speaker 1: when Monica gets engaged and she's like, I'm engaged. I
Speaker 1: want my husband to be doing that, pleased and thank you,
Speaker 1: like you have a prize. So I feel like, if
Speaker 1: that's like the gold standard, our tendency to get attached
Speaker 1: too quickly we've already identified is not helping us in
Speaker 1: this because it's not a allowing you to see yeah,
Speaker 1: you're not seeing things clearly. Sometimes it ends up sabotaging
Speaker 1: the relationship where you like put undue pressure not on
Speaker 1: the other person, but on you as a couple, you
Speaker 1: as a pair, way too early before like it's ready
Speaker 1: to hold that kind of responsibility. So what are some
Speaker 1: of the ways that we can kind of slow down
Speaker 1: the attachment process, take things slowly, take our time and
Speaker 1: really listen to our gut instinct.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it comes down to what we were
Speaker 2: talking about earlier is really grounding yourself and being in
Speaker 2: your own frame and knowing that you know you should
Speaker 2: not be settling just because you're alone. And that's a
Speaker 2: big thing that a lot of people, as you just
Speaker 2: said that really blew my mind earlier, the point you
Speaker 2: made about how men have this society, they don't have
Speaker 2: the societal pressure that women do to settle because there
Speaker 2: you know, it's like the clock is ticking for women.
Speaker 2: That's like a whole thing that I guess we see
Speaker 2: advertised everywhere nowadays, and I think there's so much truth
Speaker 2: to that, and I think just putting everything into perspective
Speaker 2: and understanding that it's so much worse to rush and
Speaker 2: dive deep dive into someone that's not good for you
Speaker 2: and latch onto someone that's not good for you and
Speaker 2: then get attached to something that's not going anywhere. It's
Speaker 2: so much worse in the long term, and really thinking
Speaker 2: about it from like pulling yourself out of it and
Speaker 2: looking like from a bird's eye view in a way
Speaker 2: and just saying, okay, like, how is this going to
Speaker 2: help me in the long term. If you don't think
Speaker 2: it is, and you think it's not going to go anywhere,
Speaker 2: it's better to wait, and it's better to focus on
Speaker 2: yourself and direct all that energy inwards. And I think
Speaker 2: like the ways I've done that is you know, I
Speaker 2: mean this might sound cliche, but actually though, I meditate
Speaker 2: every single day, and I tell myself self love affirmations
Speaker 2: almost every single day. And I'm very big on self
Speaker 2: concept because your self concept plays into everything, and it
Speaker 2: especially plays into your relationships and people. People mirror to
Speaker 2: you where you're at in your life right and people
Speaker 2: mirror to you how you feel about yourself. And I
Speaker 2: think unpacking those feelings of insecurity that you have when
Speaker 2: you're latched onto someone that isn't good for you and
Speaker 2: kind of healing that is the step you need to
Speaker 2: take in order to not get attached and actually meet
Speaker 2: the right person. And that's something I'm working through right
Speaker 2: now because I still have my own healing to do too,
Speaker 2: Like I'm looking for someone that's going to be the
Speaker 2: long term, like the endgame, and I still have stuff
Speaker 2: that I'm healing, which is like settling just because you
Speaker 2: know someone treats you nice temporarily and takes you to dinner. Like,
Speaker 2: that's not a reason why you should latch onto them.
Speaker 2: That is the bare minimum. It doesn't mean that that's
Speaker 2: your soulmate, right Like, but you could have these blinders
Speaker 2: on when you're alone for a while, which I empathize,
Speaker 2: you know, I empathize when people are like alone for
Speaker 2: a long time. You kind of have these like delusional
Speaker 2: goggles on sometimes and you gotta you gotta rip the
Speaker 2: goggles off.
Speaker 1: It's because you're coming at it. I think from like
Speaker 1: a like a scarcity mindset where you're like, wow, I
Speaker 1: better grab. Like it's kind of like when everyone when
Speaker 1: you feel like everyone else has something that you want,
Speaker 1: you're just going to grab like the first thing that
Speaker 1: you see, because it's going to fulfill at least the
Speaker 1: sense that you have it. I also think that, yeah,
Speaker 1: when you talk about like meditating and positive affirmations, positive
Speaker 1: affirmations work, there is so much psychology behind it. The
Speaker 1: way you speak to yourself impacts your behavior and impacts
Speaker 1: the kind of the I hate the word vibe because
Speaker 1: it sounds so like unscientific, but kind of like the
Speaker 1: energy that you give off.
Speaker 2: Ever since I started really making a habit of changing
Speaker 2: my inner dialogue and saying, you know, I am the
Speaker 2: best person this, Like I'm the best person that anyone's
Speaker 2: ever gonna meet. I know it might sound a little
Speaker 2: not narcissistic, but it sounds like full of yourself.
Speaker 3: No, it's just it's good.
Speaker 2: You know, it's good to feel like the best person
Speaker 2: in the room. Why wouldn't you want to feel like
Speaker 2: the best person in the room. Like, it doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that necessarily objectively, Like maybe other people wouldn't agree with that,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't matter, you know, it matters how you
Speaker 2: feel about yourself. And that's why I always I started
Speaker 2: telling myself these things like I'm the most amazing person,
Speaker 2: I'm so successful, I'm so beautiful, I'm so confident. These
Speaker 2: things are okay to feel about yourself, you know, like
Speaker 2: why shouldn't everyone feel good about themselves? So I yeah,
Speaker 2: I do really agree with that. The whole psychology behind affirmations.
Speaker 2: I've seen massive changes in my life ever since I started.
Speaker 1: Also, it's interesting because I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: get concerned that that kind of behavior is like narcissistic.
Speaker 1: The thing is, when you are in a world that
Speaker 1: is constantly trying to break down your sense of self
Speaker 1: concept or your sense of self esteem. You kind of
Speaker 1: need an exaggerated practice like that, or you need to
Speaker 1: speak to yourself in an exaggerated, highly positive way to
Speaker 1: counteract that negativity in order to reach a balance like
Speaker 1: I do genuinely believe it, and affirmations are an amazing
Speaker 1: way to do that. Set a behavioral intention as well,
Speaker 1: be like I'm not going to settle for this, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to settle for and write a list, and
Speaker 1: also write a list of what you truly want, and
Speaker 1: when you meet someone, actually honestly evaluate them against those
Speaker 1: against you know, those those non negotiables. It's a way
Speaker 1: to make sure that when it comes to situations of
Speaker 1: the heart, when it comes to situations that are very emotional,
Speaker 1: like attachment, you are maintaining like your rational edge, you
Speaker 1: are maintaining like a logical, steady head when it comes
Speaker 1: to these situations, especially if you know that you as
Speaker 1: someone who gets maybe carried away. And I think also
Speaker 1: make sure that you sustain your emotional independence. So often
Speaker 1: I find I used to find that I would be
Speaker 1: entirely reliant on someone else's reactions and behavior and their
Speaker 1: receptiveness to me to determine my mood.
Speaker 3: I definitely do that. Oh yeah, that's no.
Speaker 2: That's so common, you know, when if someone doesn't react
Speaker 2: the way you expect them to, or if someone doesn't
Speaker 2: text you back right away, or something where you just
Speaker 2: are kind of accept like you're kind of expecting a
Speaker 2: certain response. If you don't get that exact response or
Speaker 2: someone's not treating you the right way, it's so easy
Speaker 2: to emotionally react to that and be like, oh, my
Speaker 2: whole day's ruined, you know. But yeah, it's very relatable.
Speaker 2: But it's also like tying back into self concept. Once
Speaker 2: you have such a strong sense of self, those things
Speaker 2: don't affect you anymore, you know. I feel like that
Speaker 2: it's happened less and less to me, Like I get
Speaker 2: less negative reactions from people now that I'm more grounded,
Speaker 2: which is an amazing thing, because I think a lot
Speaker 2: of the time I was always waiting on someone's validation
Speaker 2: of the things they said to me or how they
Speaker 2: said it or the way they phrased it in order
Speaker 2: to make me feel like, oh, I'm doing a good job,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And it's like, you don't need that like you don't
Speaker 1: this person unless they prove it to you, means nothing.
Speaker 1: Like that was a real mindset shift I had where
Speaker 1: I was like, you do not deserve to be in
Speaker 1: my life until you prove that you want to be
Speaker 1: there and then we can talk, like then we can
Speaker 1: see what happens. So I think that's really important and
Speaker 1: also prevents you from fantasy bonding when you like recognize
Speaker 1: that your emotional independence means a lot more than your
Speaker 1: connection to that person, your sense of like just emotional
Speaker 1: wellness as well. You said something on your show the
Speaker 1: other day that was like if this person is making
Speaker 1: you feel like ill or stick to your stomach, like
Speaker 1: that is not a good sign. Like if they are
Speaker 1: at any point making you feel like it's not a
Speaker 1: good sign. Like you don't have like ibs, you don't
Speaker 1: have like chronic like stomach pains, Like this person is
Speaker 1: like it's just bad for you, Like they're creating physical
Speaker 1: reactions in your body. So it's also something to remember.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure, I definitely have had I've had
Speaker 2: physical reactions to people before, where like I was physically
Speaker 2: repulsed by things that like happened and you know, felt
Speaker 2: actually like actually felt ill at times. I kept getting
Speaker 2: sinus infections when I was around this one person every
Speaker 2: time I would hang out with them. So I got
Speaker 2: a sinus infection the next day. Telling you something, and
Speaker 2: it was like, and sinuses are I think sinuses are
Speaker 2: linked to your emotions, your emotional well being in general,
Speaker 2: like from a spiritual perspective, And I was doing some
Speaker 2: research on this, and your body can react in crazy
Speaker 2: ways when you're around people that are not good for
Speaker 2: you and that are sucking your energy dry. And that's
Speaker 2: another way to know if you're attached to the wrong person.
Speaker 3: So keep that Also.
Speaker 1: Stress, Like stress increases cortisol. It's going to make you
Speaker 1: experience like illness and sickness. It's going to suppress your
Speaker 1: immunity more. That is like an important way your body
Speaker 1: is telling you that something isn't right. So I think
Speaker 1: that that is a good place to end things with
Speaker 1: a health warning. And I really do hope that, like
Speaker 1: I really do hope that if you are someone who
Speaker 1: gets attached too quickly, that this episode has helped you,
Speaker 1: that this episode has given you something to think about.
Speaker 1: You know, when I'm moving into the new year, and
Speaker 1: we're going to move into the new year, unattached and
Speaker 1: absolutely madly in love with ourselves and not with someone
Speaker 1: who doesn't deserve it. So I want to thankless so
Speaker 1: much again for coming on. If you do not listen
Speaker 1: to her podcast, I personally listen to it. I think
Speaker 1: it's amazing and it gives me a lot to think about.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it will give you a lot to think
Speaker 1: about as well. So thanks for coming on again.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you. I tell everyone about your podcast also.
Speaker 2: It's amazing and I'm just grateful that I'm on again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, women supporting women, guys, That's what it's all about.
Speaker 1: As always, If you enjoyed this episode, please feel free
Speaker 1: to leave a five star review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify
Speaker 1: wherever you are listening right now, and if you have
Speaker 1: an episode suggestion. If you just want to get in
Speaker 1: touch see some behind the scenes content, you can follow
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at that Psychology Podcast. We will be
Speaker 1: back next week with another guest episode, so we will
Speaker 1: see you then.