WEBVTT - The Investigation 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:03.559 Welcome to the piked In Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:04.760 and Katie Studios. 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:09.639 It's been one year since eight members of the Rodent 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:11.600 family were found murdered in Pike County. 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:14.120 Now, surviving members of the family have released a lead 0:00:14.160 --> 0:00:14.800 for information. 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.239 A year after eight members of the Rodent family were 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.640 ruthlessly gunned down in their homes, Ohio authorities are on 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:24.239 a relentless search for the killers. 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:27.080 Over eight hundred tips have been called into police. 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:29.280 We may commit much of the people of Bike County. 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:32.320 That day, I said, we're not leaving until we solved this. 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.680 Many different facets of law enforcement collaborated to crack the case. 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:40.320 The people that carried it out were trying to do 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:43.320 everything they could to make sure that they didn't get caught. 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:46.839 Law enforcement officials begin tracking down a series of leads 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:50.440 that point them to another group of potential suspects, the Wagoners. 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:54.720 The Wagoner shop and local walmarts for ammunition, magazine, cliffs, 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:56.960 and materials to build brass catchers. 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:00.640 According to the case indictment, the Wagoners begin conducting what 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:03.560 seems to be almost like reconnaissance on the Rodents. 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:05.440 What do you mean a camera was? There was it 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.160 connected to something I still do this day wonder why 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.160 she mentioned that and why that conversation wasn't allowed to 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:11.840 go any further. 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.720 The revelations leave those closest to the family questioning their innocence. 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:18.560 I know he was upset, but was he upset because 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:20.559 she has been murdered? 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:21.320 Or when he upset. 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:22.080 Because he's done it? 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:30.920 This is the piked in Massacre Episode six, the investigation. 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:37.919 In this episode, we're going to dive into law enforcement's 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:41.720 investigation into the Rodent murders, how the Wagners allegedly pulled 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:46.039 off this gruesome massacre, and why. I'm Courtney Armstrong and 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:49.720 I work at Kat's Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.480 We produced a documentary about the case for NBC Universal's 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:56.480 Oxygen Network in twenty nineteen and have been following the 0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:00.320 evolution of the investigation since then. To understand the crime 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:02.520 and the possible motivation of the family that may have 0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:04.680 committed it, we want to look at the months leading 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:08.079 up to the murders and authorities movements after. By any 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.800 objective standard, it was a long, arduous investigation spanning two 0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:15.760 full years. During that time, many different facets of law enforcement. 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.240 The FBI, the DEA, the Pike County Sheriff's Office, and 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.959 the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation all collaborated to crack 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:23.400 the case. 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:28.160 Police received over eleven hundred tips, They conducted over five 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:32.560 hundred interviews, tested about seven hundred pieces of evidence, served 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:36.120 close to two hundred search warrants, subpoenas and other things. 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.680 So this was something that was huge. 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:43.040 That's Mike Allen, a defense attorney, former Ohio County prosecutor, 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.240 and legal analyst for Cincinnati news station Fox nineteen. 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:48.840 The Attorney General the Wine at the time said it 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:52.600 was a pretty sophisticated operation in the people that carried 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.440 it out. We're trying to do everything they could to 0:02:55.520 --> 0:03:00.440 make sure that they didn't get caught. Attorney General Wine 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:03.680 and Sheriff Reader, they both said that the investigation was 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:06.320 going to be a long one and a lengthy process, 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:08.440 and boy, sure has played out that way. 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.160 But how exactly did investigators circle in on the Wagners 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:15.480 as suspects and eventually compile enough evidence to make arrests. 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:19.080 In previous episodes, we discussed some of the conflicts between 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.000 the Wagners and the Rodents In twenty sixteen, there was 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:25.120 a custody battle between Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin and 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:28.600 a physical altercation between Billy Wagner and Chris Roden Senior. 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:31.760 It seemed like the relationship between the two families was 0:03:31.800 --> 0:03:34.000 reaching a fever pitch in the months leading up to 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.440 the murders, But these two families didn't always have such 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:41.000 ill will towards one another. Here's journalist Jeff Winkler. 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:45.400 I think early on people wanted to paint the sort 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:49.000 of few between the Rodents and Wagners as something like 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.320 the Hatfields of McCoy's, just because it was sort of 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.720 Hills of Appalachia backwoods kind of thing. 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.360 But I mean, it really wasn't. 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:00.480 Like it, right, Like people like to say that Hatfield 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:02.960 and McCoy's. But I think they were probably closer and 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:05.760 friendlier than that version of it, right, yeah. 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:07.920 They I mean the fact that they were family, mars 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:10.600 just split in their time between the two houses, the 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.040 fact that you know, the Wagners had been in the 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:15.200 area for a long time as well, just as the 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:15.760 Rodents had. 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:20.440 It's just you had two families who were intertwined by 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:21.440 both blood and work. 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.559 We got some more intimate observations from Deray. She's Billy 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:30.720 Wagner's cousin and Frederica Wagner's niece. Deray spoke to Jeff 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.599 about how she saw the relationship between her family and 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:34.400 the Rodents. 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.800 Do you know anything about Billy and Chris Roden Senior? 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.800 My aunt said that they were very good friends, and 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:47.520 of course he was the grandfather of Sophia, and so 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.360 was Billy. Billy is Sophia's grandfather. 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:52.560 I mean, it's like they're in loss. 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:53.479 They're related. 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:56.559 I mean, their two grandfathers of the same little girl. 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:58.440 She's adorable. 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:00.680 Did Angela and Dani and I get along in the 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:01.039 same way? 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:01.400 Do you know? 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:04.200 It looked to me like they were clearly getting along. 0:05:04.680 --> 0:05:08.719 And she never said anything bad about the Rodents. She 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.919 never spoke one negative thing about it, just about the 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.640 children about you know, they went fishing and they were 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:18.320 over at fredericaz and you know, small talk. 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.960 Right, like normal talk you'd have with another mom about 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:22.160 raising kids. 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:25.560 Right exactly, and it's just like that's all it is. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:26.880 It's just family talk. 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.640 We of course know that Hannah and Jake Wagner had 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:34.479 an intense relationship, but through the ups and downs. Most 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.560 would say they were in love and their relationship brought 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:42.160 the two families together. Here's producer Stephanie. When we started 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.200 doing our research, I personally became a bit obsessed with 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:48.840 better understanding the intersection between these two families and really 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.840 struggle with the motivation. What could possibly cause one family, 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.360 the Wagoners, to allegedly murder eight people that they knew 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.120 so well they knew them intimately. In fact, we came 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:03.400 across a photograph taken in twenty twelve at George Wagner, 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:07.960 the eldest son's wedding, and the Rodins and the Wagners 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.560 are both in this photo seemingly so happy. The only 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.279 person not there is Dana Rodin, and she said to 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.159 maybe be taking the photo because she later posted it 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.520 on her MySpace page. But it's mind blowing. The people 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.120 in the photo do not look like killers posing with 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.599 there would be victims, but sure enough, in four years, 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:29.200 the majority of the people in this picture would be 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:34.360 dead and the others would be standing trial for their deaths. 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.000 Throughout this series, we've been talking to a relative of 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:43.240 the Wagners who's chosen to remain anonymous. She spoke to 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:45.800 Jeff about her family's reaction in the wake of the 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:46.640 Rodent murders. 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.599 What was the feeling like in the family after that happened. 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.920 Angela was upset because it was the mother of her granddaughter. 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.839 She was just really sad, you know, that that had happened. 0:06:58.120 --> 0:06:59.800 When I talked to Jake and I was telling it. 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.359 I'm so sorry, you know, like, if there's anything I 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:04.920 can do, please tell me. And Angela she did ask 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:10.000 me at one point, probably about a month after the 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:13.280 murders had happened, if I could come down and pick 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:17.680 up Sothia and Jake and take Sophia to a friend's 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:19.880 house and stuff. So I did, and in that time, 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:20.920 you know, me and. 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:22.880 Jake and Sabilla in the car, and he was an 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.800 absolute wrecked rank And of course I did not know. 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:28.560 I didn't know how to react. I didn't know what 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.119 to ask him. I didn't know what to say. 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.440 I was kind of just letting him just have his moment. 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:38.000 And he was absolutely devastated. I mean, he couldn't talk, 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:39.120 he couldn't breathe, he. 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.080 Was out of the page attack in my car, and 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:45.120 I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, I don't know 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:48.320 what to say. So of course when I find out 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.840 that they were the ones that's done this, I keep 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:53.680 thinking back to that time and you know, in the car, 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:55.240 and I'm like, oh my gosh, Like, I. 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.240 Know he was upset, but was he upset for you know, 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.920 the right reason? Like, yeah, was he upset because. 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:06.080 She had been murdered? Or on the upset because you 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:09.040 know he's done it and he knew. I don't know. 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.400 It was just an awful, eerie feeling. 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:12.560 It really truly. 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:14.920 Was Pike County Massacre. 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.440 It's the title of what has happened out here, the 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:18.760 tragedy that we've been covering. 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:21.920 The victims ranged in age from sixteen to forty four. 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.720 Each were shot anywhere from once to nine times. It's just, 0:08:26.320 --> 0:08:28.880 you know, a grisly scene in a gristly situation. 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:35.320 Let's rewind to summer twenty fourteen. Hannah and Jake's daughter, 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:39.080 Sophia is eight months old. Here's producer Stephanie. 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:41.760 This is why this case is so complicated, because just 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:44.640 when I think the Wagners could be innocent, I read 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:48.719 something like this. Around this time, according to the case indictment, 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.520 the Wagners began conducting what seems to almost be like 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.440 reconnaissance on the Rodent family. Over the course of the 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.640 next two years, they allegedly began hacking into the Rodent's 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:03.000 personal computers, their phones, even their social media accounts. They 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.680 even reportedly use surveillance cameras to spy on the Rodents. 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.400 But why would they do that, especially according to most accounts, 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:12.839 Jake and Hannah were very much still dating and very 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.120 much in love at this time, So why would they 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.760 be spying? Was Angela Wagner the mom obsessed with her 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:22.400 youngest son, Jake Wagner's relationship with Hannah Rodin. Where the 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:26.360 dads Chris Roden or Billy Wagner Senior embroiled in something big, 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.240 where the Wagner is simply trying to get familiar with 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:33.280 the family patterns and better understand the Rodent property, why 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:34.760 would they possibly be spying. 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:41.960 Here's investigative reporter Jodi Barr. He's talking about a conversation 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.240 he had with Kendra Rodin, the daughter of one of 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:45.720 the victims, Kenneth Roden. 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:49.800 Kendra Roadin brought up with me in our discussions, she 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.400 mentioned a few times that there were cameras set up 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:54.800 around Chris Senior's home. 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:58.520 Wow, so Kendra Rodin actually saw cameras on the property 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.320 that now it seems as if allegedly the Wagoners had 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:01.760 put there. 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:05.200 Yeah, she told me that at Christian Year's home, that 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:09.000 there was a camera on that property. And she said 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.640 it was in sort of a not in the wooded area, 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:16.440 but sort of the field like it hadn't been mode, 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:19.160 but it was right near the garage at Christi Year's home. 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:23.640 And of course, naturally you start questioning her about the 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:25.800 cameras and you know, what do you mean a camera 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.679 was there? Was it connected to something? 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:29.240 Did you? 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:29.480 Did? 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:31.800 You looked at you to try to investigate. It was 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.000 a very strange encounter, you know, when she mentioned that 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.120 and then the conversation wouldn't no further. 0:10:37.400 --> 0:10:40.160 Well, she was probably scared, right, possibly, I. 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:43.080 Mean, but she's talking to a reporter. That was always 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.640 something that I've wondered about because she never got an 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.160 answer to and it was so strange, and I still 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.680 to this day wonder why she mentioned that and why 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.760 that conversation wasn't allowed to go any further. 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.240 Yeah, but I find so like the most screwed up 0:10:57.240 --> 0:10:59.200 thing about it is at that time, the summer twenty 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.440 fourteen has when Jay Wagner and Hannah Rodin were like 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.240 hot and heavy and planning a wedding, and to know 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.440 that he was then also sort of maybe planning her 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:09.680 murder at the same time, or starting to at least 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.240 spy on her in some way, it's like just very dark. 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:14.560 I mean, there's a lot of interest obviously still in 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:18.480 this case. And you know, with every criminal prosecution, you know, 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:21.000 the state they have their version of facts, and the 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.480 defense will have its version of facts. But if this 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.520 turns out to be true, man, what a story. I mean, 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:31.520 what a terribly tragic ending to these lives, to everything 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.079 that was going on. If we are to believe that 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.839 the prosecution as alleged, you know, this paints a very 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:38.600 dark picture. 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:46.560 We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:58.520 back in a moment. It seems that the Wagners became 0:11:58.559 --> 0:12:01.480 obsessed with getting soul cussed did of Sophia after Jake 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:04.120 and Hannah broke up, But how exactly did they think 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.080 they would gain control? As laid out in the indictment, 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.320 the Wagners began methodically plotting a scheme that would take 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:14.320 several months to actually carry out. Here again, is Jodi Barr. 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:16.920 So when you read these indictments, you know they were 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:20.760 talking about the Wagner's movements even months before these murders happened, 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:24.120 and that the investigators believed that they were planning this 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:27.400 for quite some time before that. The Adamo says that 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:31.839 detectives believe that planning began January one of twenty sixteen. 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:35.560 The murders happened April of twenty sixteen. So you've got 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.960 four months of planning that's alleged to have happened here. 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:40.920 Four months to plan the South. 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:42.400 I mean, if that's every. 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.520 Day for four months, that's the full time job. 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.680 So what exactly went into the planning? In previous episodes, 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.960 we talked about how in April twenty sixteen, the Wagners 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:57.640 presented Hannah Rodin with custody documents. But what Hannah didn't 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.320 know then and what police later uncovered, is that the 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:05.160 supposedly legal documents were fake, and that Angela Wagner's mother, 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.800 Rita Joe Nucam, was allegedly at the center of the deception. 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.480 I spoke to my Gallon about it. So Rita Nucom 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:16.320 Angela's mom. She faces three counts of forgery. A kound 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:20.240 of perjury and she's a notary. Can you speak to 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:22.920 what power does a notary have or how does that 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:23.720 come into play? 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:26.560 In Ohio, notaries don't have a lot of power. They 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:30.600 are allowed, obviously to notarize signatures. You know, they have 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:33.920 to make sure that the oath is administered properly when 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.720 they are notarizing something. They're kind of hard to come 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:41.920 by here in Ohio. But I'm certain that because of 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:47.080 this she'll probably lose that notary's license, if she hasn't already. 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.160 Moving forward a bit in time, prosecutors ultimately claimed that 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:53.960 read a lie about the authenticity of these documents to 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.960 a grand jury, But in an unexpected twist, Nucom agreed 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:01.040 to a plea deal with the prosecution. She pled guilty 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:05.319 to a misdemeanor charge of obstructing official business in exchange 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:09.680 felony charges of forgery and perjury were dismissed. Here's Nucomb 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:10.560 speaking in court. 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:11.839 I feel that. 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.920 It's not a good crazy thing long and I'm going 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:15.920 to live with the more. 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:19.480 It's difficult to hear her because of the recording, but 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:21.720 she says, I just feel that it's not a good 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:24.160 Christian thing to lie and I couldn't live with it 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:27.920 no more. Jodi Barr thinks there could be ulterior motives 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:28.720 to Newcomb's deal. 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:32.200 The prosecutor said in court, though, that a hand running 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:36.240 expert concluded that Rita Nucomb did not sign the documents herself. 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:40.600 Nukemb admitted to fosterly, telling a grand jury and investigators 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:44.200 that she did so only because her daughter, Angela Wagner, 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.240 who was among those charged with the killings, told her 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:52.480 to do so. I mean there were some heavy charges dismissed. 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.560 You know, we're investigators trying to squeeze the grandmothers to 0:14:55.600 --> 0:14:57.440 get some information out of them. 0:14:58.040 --> 0:14:59.280 Mike Allen seems to think so. 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:04.040 Now there's a lot of speculation, and in the normal case, 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.400 the first thing you'd think of is Okay, you know, 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:11.600 they gave her a reduced charge in return for cooperation, 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.680 and I would not be surprised if that's not the case. 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.120 But again, you know, we won't know until we get 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:19.040 closer to trial. 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:24.280 Can you be compelled to testify for the prosecution? 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:29.560 Sure, I mean, they receive a subpoena unless there's some 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:34.520 kind of legal reason why you know they couldn't. Yeah, 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:38.840 I mean the prosecutor could issue the subpoena. If there's testimony, 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:42.120 the prosecutor would probably ask the court to designate that 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:45.320 person as a hostile witness, and then they can use 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:46.280 leading questions. 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.440 According to court records, the documents appointed a guardian for 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:53.840 Jake and Hannah's daughter in the event of their deaths. 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:58.080 When police later searched the Wagner home, this document was 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.960 found in a box belonging to Angelo labeled important Stuff. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.520 I asked Mike Gallan about the legal ramifications of these 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:09.320 forged documents. How does it appear that these documents were 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:12.600 forged on April third? It was nineteen days before the murders. 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:14.480 I'll tell you what, I've been doing this for a 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.600 long time and I've never seen anything like this. It's 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:22.160 strong evidence for the prosecutor. The defense attorney has to 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.200 find a way to explain that away, which is probably 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:29.480 next to impossible. But yeah, it's that strong evidence from 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:30.880 a prosecutor's perspective. 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:34.880 As we've discussed before, it was around this time that 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.680 Chris Ruden Senior and Billy Wagner got into a fight 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:42.360 as well. Here's Mike Allen recapping that confrontation back. 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.800 In mid April twenty and sixteen, supposedly there was a 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.800 fight between Chris Senior and Billy Wagner. Nobody seems to 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.240 know what the fight was about or what caused it. 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.160 Things were obviously becoming strained between the two families, but 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.280 the beginning of April also brought a lot of joy 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:03.160 for the Rodent film. That month, Hannah celebrated her nineteenth birthday. 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:05.720 Here's rodin family friend Stephann. 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:07.679 It was a happy occasion, you know. 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.439 It was family get together and lots of fun, you know, 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:14.240 because they were fun. They were always having you know, 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.800 get together's, birthday parties, anything like that. 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:19.840 They were a great family unit. 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.119 But as the Rodent family was celebrating, the Wagners allegedly 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:28.639 were busy planning their murders. The Wagners already had a 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:32.040 cachet of firearms, but around this time they began making 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:36.080 their own silencers. If the Wagners did do it, it 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.159 seems likely that these would have been used on the 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:43.399 night of the murders. The family also bought ammunition, a 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.800 magazine clip, a bug detector, and materials to build brass catchers. 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:50.679 Jodi Barr filled us in on what some of this 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:51.800 equipment is used. 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.000 For The brass catcher is a bag that hooks on 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:59.240 the side of a fire arm. It will catch spent cartridges, 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:03.600 so every time you pull the trigger, cartridges is ejected. 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.640 And if you were really interested in not leaving anything 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:10.119 behind as far as ballistic evidence to sound like a 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.399 great story, this bag will collect the shell casing, so 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:18.240 there's no evidence left behind. The bug detector, so purely 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.600 that helps someone find listening devices and sometimes create blat 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:23.600 noise to muffle sounds or discussion. 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.440 The indictment also includes a reference to a specific pair 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.800 of shoes that the family purchased from Walmart. But why 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:33.760 would they need a particular pair of shoes to pull 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:35.960 off a murder? Here's Stephanie. 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.000 One such theory is that the Wagners were trying to 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:44.040 frame data Rodin's brother, James Manly. He's significant because if 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:48.000 you recall, Dana Rowden's sister, Bobby Joe, made the first 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.800 discovery of bodies and called nine to one one. She 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:54.200 also called her brother, who rushed to Dana Roden's house 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:58.480 and also found their bodies. His prints were allegedly at 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.600 the crime scene. However, just one day before the murders. 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:03.760 The Wagners drove two and a half hours to a 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:07.680 specific Walmart to buy a particular pair of boots. They're 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.480 seen on surveillance buying these boots and they're the same 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.760 kind of boots known to be worn by James Manley. 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:16.639 Why would they do that? 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:20.440 Here's reporter Jody. 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:22.600 Barr from the Dyingment. I mean, there's a lot of 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.879 assertion by the prosecution that they have evidence that, you know, 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:30.440 these boots were purchased to frame James Manley a family 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:33.360 member for the murder, and that James lived the closest 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:36.960 to Dana, and that James ended up being one of 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:41.160 the first to discover Dana and you know in Hannah's 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:42.480 bodies that morning. 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:44.160 Right, So the idea is that they went and bought 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:47.280 these specific boots knowing that James Manley wore them, and 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:49.240 then they would in theory, wear them the night of 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.359 the murder. So it looked to police like he was 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:52.320 the one walking around. 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:55.240 And it sounds like for a period of time investigators 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.720 might have believed that to be the case, because James 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.480 Manley was one of the first people rough in and interrogated. 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:06.399 Given a polygraph, I mean, if you're to believe what's 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.200 written in that indictment. It sounds like that you may 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:11.960 have been pretty close to pulling this all off. 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:14.800 It was so detail oriented. 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.760 Yeah, and you wonder this too. It's like it seemed 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:21.080 like a lot of detailed planning to pre plan that. 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:23.680 I don't really know what to think of it. Again, 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.719 I don't know anybody who's capable of doing that, and 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.760 we know it happened. It was pulled off by somebody. 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:32.680 But I mean, if they really bought boots to try 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:37.120 to frame James manly Man again, this is a heck 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:39.840 of a story. Who drinks us up? Who thinks this up? 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.120 In April twenty sixteen, the same week as Hannah's birthday, 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:47.919 her mother Dana threw a baby shower to celebrate the 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.080 upcoming birth of her new baby girl, Kylie. It would 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.280 be the last time the Rodent family all gathered in 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:57.080 one place. Becky Ryder was a close friend of Dana Rhaden's. 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:00.240 She told Jeff about the excitement surrounding the baby's. 0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.360 The Dana felt overwhelmed with joy and happiness because she's 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.000 getting another grand baby that she can love and spoil 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:09.800 as she always loved her grandkids, you know, deeply. 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:12.359