1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,559 Speaker 1: Welcome to the piked In Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: and Katie Studios. 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 2: It's been one year since eight members of the Rodent 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 2: family were found murdered in Pike County. 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 3: Now, surviving members of the family have released a lead 6 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 3: for information. 7 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: A year after eight members of the Rodent family were 8 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,640 Speaker 1: ruthlessly gunned down in their homes, Ohio authorities are on 9 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: a relentless search for the killers. 10 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 3: Over eight hundred tips have been called into police. 11 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 4: We may commit much of the people of Bike County. 12 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 2: That day, I said, we're not leaving until we solved this. 13 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: Many different facets of law enforcement collaborated to crack the case. 14 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: The people that carried it out were trying to do 15 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 2: everything they could to make sure that they didn't get caught. 16 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: Law enforcement officials begin tracking down a series of leads 17 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: that point them to another group of potential suspects, the Wagoners. 18 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 4: The Wagoner shop and local walmarts for ammunition, magazine, cliffs, 19 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 4: and materials to build brass catchers. 20 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 1: According to the case indictment, the Wagoners begin conducting what 21 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: seems to be almost like reconnaissance on the Rodents. 22 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 4: What do you mean a camera was? There was it 23 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 4: connected to something I still do this day wonder why 24 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 4: she mentioned that and why that conversation wasn't allowed to 25 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 4: go any further. 26 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: The revelations leave those closest to the family questioning their innocence. 27 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 5: I know he was upset, but was he upset because 28 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,559 Speaker 5: she has been murdered? 29 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 6: Or when he upset. 30 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 5: Because he's done it? 31 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: This is the piked in Massacre Episode six, the investigation. 32 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:37,919 Speaker 1: In this episode, we're going to dive into law enforcement's 33 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: investigation into the Rodent murders, how the Wagners allegedly pulled 34 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: off this gruesome massacre, and why. I'm Courtney Armstrong and 35 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: I work at Kat's Studios with Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. 36 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: We produced a documentary about the case for NBC Universal's 37 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: Oxygen Network in twenty nineteen and have been following the 38 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: evolution of the investigation since then. To understand the crime 39 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: and the possible motivation of the family that may have 40 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: committed it, we want to look at the months leading 41 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 1: up to the murders and authorities movements after. By any 42 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: objective standard, it was a long, arduous investigation spanning two 43 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: full years. During that time, many different facets of law enforcement. 44 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: The FBI, the DEA, the Pike County Sheriff's Office, and 45 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 1: the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation all collaborated to crack 46 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: the case. 47 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: Police received over eleven hundred tips, They conducted over five 48 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 2: hundred interviews, tested about seven hundred pieces of evidence, served 49 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 2: close to two hundred search warrants, subpoenas and other things. 50 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 2: So this was something that was huge. 51 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: That's Mike Allen, a defense attorney, former Ohio County prosecutor, 52 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: and legal analyst for Cincinnati news station Fox nineteen. 53 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 2: The Attorney General the Wine at the time said it 54 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: was a pretty sophisticated operation in the people that carried 55 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 2: it out. We're trying to do everything they could to 56 00:02:55,520 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 2: make sure that they didn't get caught. Attorney General Wine 57 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: and Sheriff Reader, they both said that the investigation was 58 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: going to be a long one and a lengthy process, 59 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: and boy, sure has played out that way. 60 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: But how exactly did investigators circle in on the Wagners 61 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: as suspects and eventually compile enough evidence to make arrests. 62 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: In previous episodes, we discussed some of the conflicts between 63 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: the Wagners and the Rodents In twenty sixteen, there was 64 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: a custody battle between Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin and 65 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: a physical altercation between Billy Wagner and Chris Roden Senior. 66 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: It seemed like the relationship between the two families was 67 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: reaching a fever pitch in the months leading up to 68 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: the murders, But these two families didn't always have such 69 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: ill will towards one another. Here's journalist Jeff Winkler. 70 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 7: I think early on people wanted to paint the sort 71 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 7: of few between the Rodents and Wagners as something like 72 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 7: the Hatfields of McCoy's, just because it was sort of 73 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 7: Hills of Appalachia backwoods kind of thing. 74 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 8: But I mean, it really wasn't. 75 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 3: Like it, right, Like people like to say that Hatfield 76 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 3: and McCoy's. But I think they were probably closer and 77 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 3: friendlier than that version of it, right, yeah. 78 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 8: They I mean the fact that they were family, mars 79 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 8: just split in their time between the two houses, the 80 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 8: fact that you know, the Wagners had been in the 81 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 8: area for a long time as well, just as the 82 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 8: Rodents had. 83 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 7: It's just you had two families who were intertwined by 84 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 7: both blood and work. 85 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,559 Speaker 1: We got some more intimate observations from Deray. She's Billy 86 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: Wagner's cousin and Frederica Wagner's niece. Deray spoke to Jeff 87 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 1: about how she saw the relationship between her family and 88 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: the Rodents. 89 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 3: Do you know anything about Billy and Chris Roden Senior? 90 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 9: My aunt said that they were very good friends, and 91 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 9: of course he was the grandfather of Sophia, and so 92 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 9: was Billy. Billy is Sophia's grandfather. 93 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's like they're in loss. 94 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 4: They're related. 95 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,559 Speaker 9: I mean, their two grandfathers of the same little girl. 96 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 9: She's adorable. 97 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 3: Did Angela and Dani and I get along in the 98 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 3: same way? 99 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 5: Do you know? 100 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 9: It looked to me like they were clearly getting along. 101 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 9: And she never said anything bad about the Rodents. She 102 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 9: never spoke one negative thing about it, just about the 103 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 9: children about you know, they went fishing and they were 104 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 9: over at fredericaz and you know, small talk. 105 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 3: Right, like normal talk you'd have with another mom about 106 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 3: raising kids. 107 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 9: Right exactly, and it's just like that's all it is. 108 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 9: It's just family talk. 109 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: We of course know that Hannah and Jake Wagner had 110 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: an intense relationship, but through the ups and downs. Most 111 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: would say they were in love and their relationship brought 112 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: the two families together. Here's producer Stephanie. When we started 113 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: doing our research, I personally became a bit obsessed with 114 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: better understanding the intersection between these two families and really 115 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: struggle with the motivation. What could possibly cause one family, 116 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: the Wagoners, to allegedly murder eight people that they knew 117 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: so well they knew them intimately. In fact, we came 118 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: across a photograph taken in twenty twelve at George Wagner, 119 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: the eldest son's wedding, and the Rodins and the Wagners 120 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: are both in this photo seemingly so happy. The only 121 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: person not there is Dana Rodin, and she said to 122 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: maybe be taking the photo because she later posted it 123 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: on her MySpace page. But it's mind blowing. The people 124 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: in the photo do not look like killers posing with 125 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: there would be victims, but sure enough, in four years, 126 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: the majority of the people in this picture would be 127 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: dead and the others would be standing trial for their deaths. 128 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: Throughout this series, we've been talking to a relative of 129 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: the Wagners who's chosen to remain anonymous. She spoke to 130 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: Jeff about her family's reaction in the wake of the 131 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: Rodent murders. 132 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 3: What was the feeling like in the family after that happened. 133 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 5: Angela was upset because it was the mother of her granddaughter. 134 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 5: She was just really sad, you know, that that had happened. 135 00:06:58,120 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 6: When I talked to Jake and I was telling it. 136 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 5: I'm so sorry, you know, like, if there's anything I 137 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 5: can do, please tell me. And Angela she did ask 138 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 5: me at one point, probably about a month after the 139 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 5: murders had happened, if I could come down and pick 140 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 5: up Sothia and Jake and take Sophia to a friend's 141 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 5: house and stuff. So I did, and in that time, 142 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 5: you know, me and. 143 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 6: Jake and Sabilla in the car, and he was an 144 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 6: absolute wrecked rank And of course I did not know. 145 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 6: I didn't know how to react. I didn't know what 146 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,119 Speaker 6: to ask him. I didn't know what to say. 147 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 5: I was kind of just letting him just have his moment. 148 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 6: And he was absolutely devastated. I mean, he couldn't talk, 149 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 6: he couldn't breathe, he. 150 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 5: Was out of the page attack in my car, and 151 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 5: I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, I don't know 152 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 5: what to say. So of course when I find out 153 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 5: that they were the ones that's done this, I keep 154 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 5: thinking back to that time and you know, in the car, 155 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 5: and I'm like, oh my gosh, Like, I. 156 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 6: Know he was upset, but was he upset for you know, 157 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 6: the right reason? Like, yeah, was he upset because. 158 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 5: She had been murdered? Or on the upset because you 159 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 5: know he's done it and he knew. I don't know. 160 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 5: It was just an awful, eerie feeling. 161 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 6: It really truly. 162 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 4: Was Pike County Massacre. 163 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 8: It's the title of what has happened out here, the 164 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 8: tragedy that we've been covering. 165 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 7: The victims ranged in age from sixteen to forty four. 166 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 2: Each were shot anywhere from once to nine times. It's just, 167 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 2: you know, a grisly scene in a gristly situation. 168 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: Let's rewind to summer twenty fourteen. Hannah and Jake's daughter, 169 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: Sophia is eight months old. Here's producer Stephanie. 170 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 10: This is why this case is so complicated, because just 171 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 10: when I think the Wagners could be innocent, I read 172 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,719 Speaker 10: something like this. Around this time, according to the case indictment, 173 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 10: the Wagners began conducting what seems to almost be like 174 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 10: reconnaissance on the Rodent family. Over the course of the 175 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 10: next two years, they allegedly began hacking into the Rodent's 176 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 10: personal computers, their phones, even their social media accounts. They 177 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 10: even reportedly use surveillance cameras to spy on the Rodents. 178 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 10: But why would they do that, especially according to most accounts, 179 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 10: Jake and Hannah were very much still dating and very 180 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 10: much in love at this time, So why would they 181 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 10: be spying? Was Angela Wagner the mom obsessed with her 182 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 10: youngest son, Jake Wagner's relationship with Hannah Rodin. Where the 183 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 10: dads Chris Roden or Billy Wagner Senior embroiled in something big, 184 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 10: where the Wagner is simply trying to get familiar with 185 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 10: the family patterns and better understand the Rodent property, why 186 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 10: would they possibly be spying. 187 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: Here's investigative reporter Jodi Barr. He's talking about a conversation 188 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: he had with Kendra Rodin, the daughter of one of 189 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: the victims, Kenneth Roden. 190 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 4: Kendra Roadin brought up with me in our discussions, she 191 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 4: mentioned a few times that there were cameras set up 192 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 4: around Chris Senior's home. 193 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,520 Speaker 3: Wow, so Kendra Rodin actually saw cameras on the property 194 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 3: that now it seems as if allegedly the Wagoners had 195 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 3: put there. 196 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, she told me that at Christian Year's home, that 197 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 4: there was a camera on that property. And she said 198 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 4: it was in sort of a not in the wooded area, 199 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 4: but sort of the field like it hadn't been mode, 200 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 4: but it was right near the garage at Christi Year's home. 201 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 4: And of course, naturally you start questioning her about the 202 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 4: cameras and you know, what do you mean a camera 203 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 4: was there? Was it connected to something? 204 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 2: Did you? 205 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 10: Did? 206 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 4: You looked at you to try to investigate. It was 207 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 4: a very strange encounter, you know, when she mentioned that 208 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 4: and then the conversation wouldn't no further. 209 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 3: Well, she was probably scared, right, possibly, I. 210 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 4: Mean, but she's talking to a reporter. That was always 211 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 4: something that I've wondered about because she never got an 212 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 4: answer to and it was so strange, and I still 213 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 4: to this day wonder why she mentioned that and why 214 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 4: that conversation wasn't allowed to go any further. 215 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, but I find so like the most screwed up 216 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 3: thing about it is at that time, the summer twenty 217 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 3: fourteen has when Jay Wagner and Hannah Rodin were like 218 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 3: hot and heavy and planning a wedding, and to know 219 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 3: that he was then also sort of maybe planning her 220 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 3: murder at the same time, or starting to at least 221 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 3: spy on her in some way, it's like just very dark. 222 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 4: I mean, there's a lot of interest obviously still in 223 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 4: this case. And you know, with every criminal prosecution, you know, 224 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 4: the state they have their version of facts, and the 225 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 4: defense will have its version of facts. But if this 226 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 4: turns out to be true, man, what a story. I mean, 227 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 4: what a terribly tragic ending to these lives, to everything 228 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,079 Speaker 4: that was going on. If we are to believe that 229 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,839 Speaker 4: the prosecution as alleged, you know, this paints a very 230 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 4: dark picture. 231 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be 232 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: back in a moment. It seems that the Wagners became 233 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: obsessed with getting soul cussed did of Sophia after Jake 234 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: and Hannah broke up, But how exactly did they think 235 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: they would gain control? As laid out in the indictment, 236 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: the Wagners began methodically plotting a scheme that would take 237 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: several months to actually carry out. Here again, is Jodi Barr. 238 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 4: So when you read these indictments, you know they were 239 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 4: talking about the Wagner's movements even months before these murders happened, 240 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 4: and that the investigators believed that they were planning this 241 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 4: for quite some time before that. The Adamo says that 242 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 4: detectives believe that planning began January one of twenty sixteen. 243 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 4: The murders happened April of twenty sixteen. So you've got 244 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 4: four months of planning that's alleged to have happened here. 245 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 4: Four months to plan the South. 246 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 11: I mean, if that's every. 247 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 4: Day for four months, that's the full time job. 248 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: So what exactly went into the planning? In previous episodes, 249 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: we talked about how in April twenty sixteen, the Wagners 250 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: presented Hannah Rodin with custody documents. But what Hannah didn't 251 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: know then and what police later uncovered, is that the 252 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: supposedly legal documents were fake, and that Angela Wagner's mother, 253 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: Rita Joe Nucam, was allegedly at the center of the deception. 254 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: I spoke to my Gallon about it. So Rita Nucom 255 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: Angela's mom. She faces three counts of forgery. A kound 256 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: of perjury and she's a notary. Can you speak to 257 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: what power does a notary have or how does that 258 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: come into play? 259 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 2: In Ohio, notaries don't have a lot of power. They 260 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 2: are allowed, obviously to notarize signatures. You know, they have 261 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 2: to make sure that the oath is administered properly when 262 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 2: they are notarizing something. They're kind of hard to come 263 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 2: by here in Ohio. But I'm certain that because of 264 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:47,080 Speaker 2: this she'll probably lose that notary's license, if she hasn't already. 265 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: Moving forward a bit in time, prosecutors ultimately claimed that 266 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: read a lie about the authenticity of these documents to 267 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: a grand jury, But in an unexpected twist, Nucom agreed 268 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: to a plea deal with the prosecution. She pled guilty 269 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 1: to a misdemeanor charge of obstructing official business in exchange 270 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: felony charges of forgery and perjury were dismissed. Here's Nucomb 271 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: speaking in court. 272 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 2: I feel that. 273 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 4: It's not a good crazy thing long and I'm going 274 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 4: to live with the more. 275 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: It's difficult to hear her because of the recording, but 276 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: she says, I just feel that it's not a good 277 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 1: Christian thing to lie and I couldn't live with it 278 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: no more. Jodi Barr thinks there could be ulterior motives 279 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: to Newcomb's deal. 280 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 4: The prosecutor said in court, though, that a hand running 281 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 4: expert concluded that Rita Nucomb did not sign the documents herself. 282 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 4: Nukemb admitted to fosterly, telling a grand jury and investigators 283 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 4: that she did so only because her daughter, Angela Wagner, 284 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 4: who was among those charged with the killings, told her 285 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 4: to do so. I mean there were some heavy charges dismissed. 286 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 4: You know, we're investigators trying to squeeze the grandmothers to 287 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 4: get some information out of them. 288 00:14:58,040 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: Mike Allen seems to think so. 289 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 2: Now there's a lot of speculation, and in the normal case, 290 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 2: the first thing you'd think of is Okay, you know, 291 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 2: they gave her a reduced charge in return for cooperation, 292 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 2: and I would not be surprised if that's not the case. 293 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 2: But again, you know, we won't know until we get 294 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 2: closer to trial. 295 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: Can you be compelled to testify for the prosecution? 296 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 2: Sure, I mean, they receive a subpoena unless there's some 297 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 2: kind of legal reason why you know they couldn't. Yeah, 298 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 2: I mean the prosecutor could issue the subpoena. If there's testimony, 299 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: the prosecutor would probably ask the court to designate that 300 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 2: person as a hostile witness, and then they can use 301 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 2: leading questions. 302 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: According to court records, the documents appointed a guardian for 303 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: Jake and Hannah's daughter in the event of their deaths. 304 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: When police later searched the Wagner home, this document was 305 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: found in a box belonging to Angelo labeled important Stuff. 306 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: I asked Mike Gallan about the legal ramifications of these 307 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: forged documents. How does it appear that these documents were 308 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: forged on April third? It was nineteen days before the murders. 309 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 2: I'll tell you what, I've been doing this for a 310 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 2: long time and I've never seen anything like this. It's 311 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 2: strong evidence for the prosecutor. The defense attorney has to 312 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: find a way to explain that away, which is probably 313 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: next to impossible. But yeah, it's that strong evidence from 314 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 2: a prosecutor's perspective. 315 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: As we've discussed before, it was around this time that 316 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: Chris Ruden Senior and Billy Wagner got into a fight 317 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: as well. Here's Mike Allen recapping that confrontation back. 318 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 2: In mid April twenty and sixteen, supposedly there was a 319 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 2: fight between Chris Senior and Billy Wagner. Nobody seems to 320 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 2: know what the fight was about or what caused it. 321 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: Things were obviously becoming strained between the two families, but 322 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: the beginning of April also brought a lot of joy 323 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: for the Rodent film. That month, Hannah celebrated her nineteenth birthday. 324 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: Here's rodin family friend Stephann. 325 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 2: It was a happy occasion, you know. 326 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 4: It was family get together and lots of fun, you know, 327 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 4: because they were fun. They were always having you know, 328 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 4: get together's, birthday parties, anything like that. 329 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 2: They were a great family unit. 330 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: But as the Rodent family was celebrating, the Wagners allegedly 331 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: were busy planning their murders. The Wagners already had a 332 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: cachet of firearms, but around this time they began making 333 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: their own silencers. If the Wagners did do it, it 334 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: seems likely that these would have been used on the 335 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 1: night of the murders. The family also bought ammunition, a 336 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: magazine clip, a bug detector, and materials to build brass catchers. 337 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: Jodi Barr filled us in on what some of this 338 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: equipment is used. 339 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 4: For The brass catcher is a bag that hooks on 340 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 4: the side of a fire arm. It will catch spent cartridges, 341 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 4: so every time you pull the trigger, cartridges is ejected. 342 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 4: And if you were really interested in not leaving anything 343 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,119 Speaker 4: behind as far as ballistic evidence to sound like a 344 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 4: great story, this bag will collect the shell casing, so 345 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 4: there's no evidence left behind. The bug detector, so purely 346 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 4: that helps someone find listening devices and sometimes create blat 347 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 4: noise to muffle sounds or discussion. 348 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: The indictment also includes a reference to a specific pair 349 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: of shoes that the family purchased from Walmart. But why 350 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: would they need a particular pair of shoes to pull 351 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: off a murder? Here's Stephanie. 352 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 10: One such theory is that the Wagners were trying to 353 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 10: frame data Rodin's brother, James Manly. He's significant because if 354 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 10: you recall, Dana Rowden's sister, Bobby Joe, made the first 355 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 10: discovery of bodies and called nine to one one. She 356 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 10: also called her brother, who rushed to Dana Roden's house 357 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 10: and also found their bodies. His prints were allegedly at 358 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 10: the crime scene. However, just one day before the murders. 359 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 10: The Wagners drove two and a half hours to a 360 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 10: specific Walmart to buy a particular pair of boots. They're 361 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 10: seen on surveillance buying these boots and they're the same 362 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 10: kind of boots known to be worn by James Manley. 363 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 10: Why would they do that? 364 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: Here's reporter Jody. 365 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 4: Barr from the Dyingment. I mean, there's a lot of 366 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 4: assertion by the prosecution that they have evidence that, you know, 367 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 4: these boots were purchased to frame James Manley a family 368 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 4: member for the murder, and that James lived the closest 369 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 4: to Dana, and that James ended up being one of 370 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 4: the first to discover Dana and you know in Hannah's 371 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 4: bodies that morning. 372 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 3: Right, So the idea is that they went and bought 373 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: these specific boots knowing that James Manley wore them, and 374 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 3: then they would in theory, wear them the night of 375 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 3: the murder. So it looked to police like he was 376 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 3: the one walking around. 377 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 4: And it sounds like for a period of time investigators 378 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 4: might have believed that to be the case, because James 379 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 4: Manley was one of the first people rough in and interrogated. 380 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 4: Given a polygraph, I mean, if you're to believe what's 381 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 4: written in that indictment. It sounds like that you may 382 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 4: have been pretty close to pulling this all off. 383 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 3: It was so detail oriented. 384 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you wonder this too. It's like it seemed 385 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 4: like a lot of detailed planning to pre plan that. 386 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 4: I don't really know what to think of it. Again, 387 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,719 Speaker 4: I don't know anybody who's capable of doing that, and 388 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 4: we know it happened. It was pulled off by somebody. 389 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 4: But I mean, if they really bought boots to try 390 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 4: to frame James manly Man again, this is a heck 391 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 4: of a story. Who drinks us up? Who thinks this up? 392 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 1: In April twenty sixteen, the same week as Hannah's birthday, 393 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 1: her mother Dana threw a baby shower to celebrate the 394 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: upcoming birth of her new baby girl, Kylie. It would 395 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: be the last time the Rodent family all gathered in 396 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: one place. Becky Ryder was a close friend of Dana Rhaden's. 397 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: She told Jeff about the excitement surrounding the baby's. 398 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 9: The Dana felt overwhelmed with joy and happiness because she's 399 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 9: getting another grand baby that she can love and spoil 400 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 9: as she always loved her grandkids, you know, deeply. 401 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 3: Yeah, And like Hannah must have been happy too, because 402 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 3: she was she had a new boyfriend at that point 403 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 3: who was not Jake Wagner, and she was about to 404 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 3: have a new baby and kind of start a new 405 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 3: chapter of her life. 406 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 5: Right, Oh yeah, absolutely. 407 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: In photos from this event, Hannah smiles with her daughter Sophia. 408 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: We also see other family members in the photo, including 409 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: Frankie and his fiance Hannah Gilly. In just a few days, 410 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: eight members of the Rodent family would be dead. But 411 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: Deray's recollection of the events leading up to the birth 412 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: of Kylie is different. She says at that point that 413 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: things were still going well between Jake and Hannah. 414 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 9: I believe they may have disagreements, and I think there 415 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 9: was disappointments, but I don't think there was any any hate. 416 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: We've discussed in previous episodes how the people have piked 417 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 1: in were immediately affected by the murderers and the shroud 418 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: of fear that hovered with the small town. 419 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 2: I just don't understand why it happened here. 420 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 4: You have a really wondering thing, like, is it like 421 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 4: mafia or anything like that, because it is crazy. If 422 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 4: I lived down there, I wouldn't stay there. 423 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 11: I would be so afraid. 424 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 3: But in the wake of the murders, many news outlets 425 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 3: were portraying Jake Wagner as almost a sympathetic figure. This 426 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 3: is how the Cincinnati Inquirer described him in a July 427 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,959 Speaker 3: twenty sixteen article, a full time single dad with mounting 428 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 3: legal bills, with a new job that pays half of 429 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 3: what he was making to ensure he is close to Sophia, 430 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 3: but close still means the twenty three year old makes 431 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 3: a daily commute to Cincinnati, a two and a half 432 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 3: hour daily drive. 433 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 4: Anybody who was connected to this family, you know, there 434 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 4: was a lot of emotion from the public involved your 435 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 4: because of these children. So it's no surprise that Jake, 436 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 4: you know, a lot of people felt for Jake. Means 437 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 4: he's lived there with with that very young daughter, and 438 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 4: he's fighting to get her back. 439 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: But it's what the family did in the wake of 440 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: the murders raised some suspicion. We know that just six 441 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: days after the Rodents were killed, Jake Wagner filed for 442 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: custody of two and a half year old Sophia, his 443 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: daughter with Hannah Rodin. In a previous episode, we talked 444 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: to Ohio criminal defense attorney Mike Allen about how this 445 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: looks from a legal perspective. 446 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 2: That's extremely strong evidence for the prosecution. I mean six days, 447 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 2: less than a week after the killings. To go ahead 448 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 2: and file. It can take months, you know, maybe a year, 449 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 2: a little bit more, a little bit less. It's not 450 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,959 Speaker 2: something that goes quickly at all, and I think that 451 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 2: that is going to be some evidence that's problematic for 452 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 2: the defense doing it that quickly after the murders. 453 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 3: It was around the same time that Angelo Wagner suggested 454 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 3: her son create a GoFundMe campaign to help cover the 455 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 3: custody expenses to the tune of twenty thousand dollars. Jack 456 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 3: wrote a personal message on the page saying these were 457 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 3: not expenses. I was supposed to have supposed to be 458 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 3: able to spend time with her and give her a 459 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 3: happy childhood. Sophia and I are just asking enough to 460 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 3: settle the fees that we acquired due to the horrific 461 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 3: tragedy to her mommy. He finished, I hate seeing my 462 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 3: daughter cry. We want to get our lives back. 463 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: But these legal actions seemed unusual to many in the community. 464 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: He was an investigative reporter Jodi Byr. 465 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 4: I do remember seeing that in the Rodent massacre Facebook group, 466 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 4: you know, people talking about that and just you know, 467 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 4: there were there was a lot of angry comments about 468 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 4: it that you know a lot of people in those 469 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,399 Speaker 4: groups have already convicted the Wagoners. They already believed they 470 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 4: did it and they're guilty, and you know, so to 471 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 4: see that and that and how vocal the Wagners were 472 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 4: on social media, it seemed to rubble people in that 473 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 4: group the wrong way that that was the wrong message 474 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,239 Speaker 4: that they believe the Wagoners should have been sending at 475 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 4: that point in time. But you know a lot of 476 00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 4: people sowing as the brazenness of the people wrapped up 477 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 4: in this to make a move like that to ask 478 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 4: for help. 479 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back 480 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 1: in a moment. In May twenty seventeen, with the investigation 481 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: in full swing, officials searched the farm of a piked 482 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: In resident named Bernard Brown. Mike Allen filled us in 483 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 1: on why police may have been interested in the property. 484 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 2: Agents searched his farm. I guess he's a friend of 485 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 2: the Wagoners and knew them for a long time. I 486 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,119 Speaker 2: guess they fixed cars together, A lot of cars on 487 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 2: the lot. I guess Jake had stored some cars and 488 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 2: some other things on the property. And I'll tell you 489 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 2: what cars and vehicles and equipment are all over these 490 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 2: farms that have been searched. So I mean maybe something 491 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,120 Speaker 2: could have been hidden somewhere, as somebody must have given 492 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 2: law enforcement a tip that there could possibly be something 493 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 2: there or they wouldn't have searched it. 494 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: Bernard Brown was not charged with anything. Authorities searched two 495 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: large trailers and took one smaller utility trailer owned by 496 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: the Wagners from his property. According to Brown, Jake Wagner 497 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: sometimes worked for him fixing cars. Brown said that the 498 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: Wagners had dropped items off at the property a week 499 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: prior to the search. It was clear that investigators were 500 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: becoming more interested in the Wagners. By the spring of 501 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, the family had been interviewed several times by authorities. 502 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: It should be noted that Jake and Angelo were interviewed 503 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 1: five times, Billy three times, and George once. Deray spoke 504 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: to Jeff about a conversation she had with Angela Wagner. 505 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: As police narrowed in on her family one day. 506 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 7: She goes, I can't believe that they just won't leave 507 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 7: us alone. 508 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 9: They just will not leave us alone. 509 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 2: She goes, it's terrible. 510 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 9: She goes, We're starting to get really worried that we're 511 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 9: going to be arrested. 512 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 3: So they felt that coming because. 513 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 2: They wouldn't leave everybody alone. 514 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 1: Rumors of the Wagner's potential involvement in the Roadent massacre 515 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: quickly spread, and soon they were being targeted not only 516 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: by police, but by Pike County residents as well. 517 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 5: Everybody had started basically attacking then the community, accusing them 518 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 5: of murdering those people, like if they were in town 519 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 5: and people identified their vehicle, they would throw pot bottles 520 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 5: at them. Angela had actually went into a store one 521 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 5: day and some woman had actually flewed up behind Angela. 522 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 5: She was coming back out of the store and through 523 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 5: a glass key bottle affor and it busted her in 524 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 5: the back. 525 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: In May twenty seventeen, as the community continued to turn 526 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: against them, Angela Wagner took to social media to publicly 527 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: declare her family's innocence. Here's Jeff reading from her post. 528 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 3: Okay, decided to tell you all a couple of things 529 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 3: about me and my family. What has happened to us 530 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 3: in the past few weeks has been devastating and it 531 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 3: will follow us for the rest of our lives. Hannah 532 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,719 Speaker 3: was a daughter to me. I loved her dearly. Her 533 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 3: loss still hurts to this day, especially when I see 534 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 3: her every day and my granddaughter. We did not do 535 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 3: anything to hurt Hannah's family. We want justice just like 536 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 3: everyone else. It is real disturbing if you really want 537 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 3: to know what you guys are doing. Your accusations now 538 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 3: will hurt Sophia later in life when she really understands 539 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 3: what happened. Let's try to find the real monsters who've 540 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 3: done this. 541 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,959 Speaker 10: So let's really unpack this for a moment. Because if 542 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 10: Angela Wagner is in fact a martyr and had been 543 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 10: targeted by the town, I mean having a bottle thrown 544 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 10: at you, if you did not commit these crimes would 545 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 10: be hideous, especially the town that you love so much. 546 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 10: Angela and her husband lived there for generations, that had 547 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 10: to be really difficult. However, if they did it and 548 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 10: they just went about their lives speaking to the press openly, 549 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 10: you know, when I look at her photo, I've said 550 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 10: this before. She looks like a mom, but then she's 551 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 10: also grimacing in her mugshot and even during her pre 552 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 10: trial hearings, there's something sort of smug about the way 553 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 10: she presents herself. It also makes me wonder could she 554 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 10: possibly be at the center of this. Facing violent backlash 555 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 10: from locals and increasing attention from authorities, the Wagoners did 556 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 10: something that left everyone and piked and stunned. Here's Jef 557 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 10: Winkler again. 558 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 7: Their lawyer had said that they were the primary suspects, 559 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 7: and so it was around that time to May twenty 560 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 7: seventeen that the whole family emptied out a few cargo 561 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 7: facilities that they had, some sheds and whatnot, loaded all 562 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 7: up and then up and moved to Alaska. 563 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 6: When they left for Alaska, I was like, oh, wow, 564 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 6: they're running, And then I thought they. 565 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 4: All get away with it. 566 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 9: I'm the one that told them go to Alaska. Ohio 567 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 9: can not afford to extradite you from Alaska back home. 568 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: But the Wagner's relocation didn't hinder the investigation. 569 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 12: Investigators rated three properties in Adams and Pike Counties the 570 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,959 Speaker 12: middle of May. We had previously reported those properties are 571 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 12: connected to the Wagner family. Now, investigators say they believe 572 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 12: the family recently moved to Alaska. Investigators want any information 573 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 12: the public has about the family. 574 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 11: They moved to Alaska. But then the very following month, 575 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 11: law enforcement actually finally searches the properties where the Wagners lived. 576 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 11: That started to tighten the noose in terms of the Wagner's. 577 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: More on that next time. Reach out to us on 578 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: our social media outlets with questions. We're on Instagram, Facebook, 579 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: and Twitter at piked in Massacre. We look forward to 580 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: answering your questions and upcoming bonus episodes. Piked In Massacre 581 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,960 Speaker 1: as executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker and me Courtney Armstrong. 582 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional 583 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: producing by Jeff Shane and Andrew Becker. The Piked In 584 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and Kati Studios. For 585 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 586 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.