WEBVTT - How Net-Zero’s Troubles Made BP Vulnerable

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to in the City. Each week we unpack a

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<v Speaker 2>story that's crucial to the world's financial capitals. I'm Francine

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<v Speaker 2>Laqua and I'm alegro Strassen. And in this week's episode,

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<v Speaker 2>the world's biggest and arguably boldest activist investor has its

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<v Speaker 2>sights on BP. So what's in store for the energy

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<v Speaker 2>provider and its shareholders?

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<v Speaker 1>Fran Yeah, it's always exciting when Bloomberg breaks news that

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<v Speaker 1>sets the agenda more widely across the UK and deed

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<v Speaker 1>the world.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we like it when it's a bit of M

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<v Speaker 2>and A or potential m and A, or whether it's

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<v Speaker 2>a deals Now we had this exclusives this past weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>Activist investor Elliott Investment Management has built up a stake,

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<v Speaker 2>a sizable steak in the all major BP.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we're really lucky to have one of the authors

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<v Speaker 1>of that exclusive Executive editor for the Global Deals Team,

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron Kirshfield. Hi. Aaron, Hi, we have Lemon Chiffon Cake.

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<v Speaker 2>Podcast, which experience you break the youth to come on

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast, I'll be back. Welcome to the City of London,

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<v Speaker 2>the city of.

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<v Speaker 3>The City of London, mind the gap between the financial

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<v Speaker 3>heart of the country.

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<v Speaker 1>The city, the city.

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<v Speaker 3>Welcome to in the city, clear of the door.

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<v Speaker 1>Just stop by setting out the story that you broke.

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<v Speaker 4>So the story we broke. It was a pretty exciting

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<v Speaker 4>weekend for us. It actually started as I was watching

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<v Speaker 4>my five year old daughter taking swim lessons and I

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<v Speaker 4>thought I should use this moment to make a couple

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<v Speaker 4>of calls on a tip that Elliott, one of the

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<v Speaker 4>most kind of feared and aggressive activists in the world,

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<v Speaker 4>had built a stake in BP. And to our surprise,

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<v Speaker 4>we made a couple of calls and figured out this

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<v Speaker 4>tip is indeed true and realized that this is a

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<v Speaker 4>huge development. And why is that? That's because probably for

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<v Speaker 4>the last decade that I've been covering deals, we've been

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<v Speaker 4>talking about will BP be bought at some stage or

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<v Speaker 4>taken over? And you know, anyone in Davos would have

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<v Speaker 4>talked about it. Recently, it's the big topic because BP,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, this storied oil major, is struggling big time,

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<v Speaker 4>stocks way down. All of its rivals are doing better.

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<v Speaker 4>So everyone is asking the question what is their future?

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<v Speaker 4>Can they make it alone or could they become a target?

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<v Speaker 4>So the fact that activists like Elliot would get involved

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<v Speaker 4>could be a huge trigger for something big. So we

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<v Speaker 4>were pretty excited this weekend when we got the story out.

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<v Speaker 2>Erin why is it in such a vulnerable position?

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<v Speaker 4>So BP several years ago, under their former CEO made

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<v Speaker 4>a bet, a bet that at the time seemed quite smart,

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<v Speaker 4>and that was that the world was away from fossil

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<v Speaker 4>fuels towards renewables net zero. Well, fast forward, as we've

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<v Speaker 4>seen from many of the oil majors, that is no

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<v Speaker 4>longer the priority, and the priority the big companies like

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<v Speaker 4>Exon Shell are actually being celebrated by their success in

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<v Speaker 4>oil in gas, and everyone is a little bit or

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<v Speaker 4>a little bit as an understatement, is quite down on

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<v Speaker 4>VP because they had pivoted away so strong from oil

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<v Speaker 4>and gas, expanded into renewables, into win into battery storages,

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<v Speaker 4>things that were quite hot topics. But shareholders have not

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<v Speaker 4>rewarded them for that. So now there's a bit of

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<v Speaker 4>a you know, an important juncture for the new CEO

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<v Speaker 4>to figure out what is the future of VP, Where

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<v Speaker 4>do they need to pivot towards and away from So they.

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<v Speaker 1>Had famously changed their name to Beyond Well they said

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<v Speaker 1>they'd become beyond petroleum. Now the joke is what it's

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<v Speaker 1>back in petroleum or back to petroleum, which she.

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<v Speaker 4>Which you I mean, investors definitely want back to petroleum.

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<v Speaker 4>So and I think that the big question is on

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<v Speaker 4>the twenty the new CEO is going to unveil a

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<v Speaker 4>new strategy and he there's the expectations are ridiculously high.

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<v Speaker 4>They're going to be hard to meet, but everyone knows

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<v Speaker 4>whatever they decide in terms of concrete terms, it will

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<v Speaker 4>be a pivot away from renewables and more back to

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<v Speaker 4>the roots oil and gas.

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<v Speaker 1>As you say, you've been watching this for ten years,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean naturally the BP beyond patronium. It doesn't got

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<v Speaker 1>ba longer than that, right was it was a huge

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<v Speaker 1>shift by the company. It wasn't just the last few

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<v Speaker 1>years of net zero. It's been going on for a

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<v Speaker 1>lot longer. I'm just wondering, you know, such a profound

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<v Speaker 1>rejection twenty five years or more of a shift in

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<v Speaker 1>the company, not just you know, a cycle.

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<v Speaker 4>No, I think you know, the reality is whether it

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<v Speaker 4>was carmakers, oil majors. Everyone thought the direction of travel

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<v Speaker 4>was towards you know, net zero renewables, and you know

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<v Speaker 4>that trend probably won't end, but the reality is right now,

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<v Speaker 4>those who have stuck to oil and gas to call,

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<v Speaker 4>they're the ones being reward because the appetite for that,

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<v Speaker 4>whether it's in India, China, even the US is simply

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<v Speaker 4>not going away. And now, obviously with the reelection of

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<v Speaker 4>Donald Trump, whose famous slogan is Drill, Baby, Drill, those

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<v Speaker 4>drilling and drilling more are the ones getting you know,

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<v Speaker 4>the investor interests. So BP, like many corporates that are

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<v Speaker 4>adjusted during to the new reality.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and to be fair, I mean I covered oil

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<v Speaker 2>and BP for years actually, but also the former CEO

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<v Speaker 2>that then had to step down and disgrace and they

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<v Speaker 2>always got, you know, a hard time from either front.

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<v Speaker 2>They were never really considered, you know that green, and

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<v Speaker 2>I know, you know, personally, on a personal level, he

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<v Speaker 2>was always like, well, I'm still seen as big bad

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<v Speaker 2>oil even though we're trying to pivot, and my share

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<v Speaker 2>price at the time didn't reflect that. And now they're

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<v Speaker 2>too green. So I think it's probably like a tough

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<v Speaker 2>one to put in the middle.

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<v Speaker 3>Aaron.

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<v Speaker 4>It's been a tough fifteen years really for them because

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<v Speaker 4>they had obviously the deep water Horizon spell in the

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<v Speaker 4>Gulf of Mexico, which they have now called the Gulf

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<v Speaker 4>of America and their lated earnings release. Interestingly on a

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<v Speaker 4>side note, and then obviously, as you mentioned, the CEO

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<v Speaker 4>had to step down for some personal misconduct and the

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<v Speaker 4>failed to transition to at zero. So they really are

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<v Speaker 4>facing headwinds on a lot of fronts.

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<v Speaker 2>So talk to us a little bit about the psychology

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<v Speaker 2>of an activist investor. So Elliott is probably the most

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<v Speaker 2>feared right mainly because the founder is I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if you call him a shark, but he's astute, he

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<v Speaker 2>understand what he wants and he pushes hard. So what

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<v Speaker 2>are they trying to do? I mean, they see a

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<v Speaker 2>vulnerable company, they come in and they basically try and

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<v Speaker 2>steer it so that the share price that they've bought

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<v Speaker 2>goes up exactly.

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<v Speaker 4>So Elliott, as you say, you know, probably the best

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<v Speaker 4>known hedge activist hedge fund in the world. They look

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<v Speaker 4>for targets that they believe are undervalued, and they believe

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<v Speaker 4>BP is severely undervalued, and they come up with a

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<v Speaker 4>strategy that they then pitch or push on the management

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<v Speaker 4>to make the stocks rebound. And now you know, you

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<v Speaker 4>can look at a long track record of their targets.

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<v Speaker 4>That can range from everything like a breakup like Honeywell,

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<v Speaker 4>which was just announce off weeks ago. That can be

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<v Speaker 4>management change and a lot of people are speculating that

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<v Speaker 4>they might push out the chairman of BP who is

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<v Speaker 4>behind the transition to net zero. And it can be

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<v Speaker 4>asset sales, all sorts of levers they can pull and

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<v Speaker 4>when they pop up in the share registry, the boardrooms

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<v Speaker 4>listen because they carry a lot of weight, They have

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<v Speaker 4>a lot of money. They make big bets, multi billion

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<v Speaker 4>dollar bets. And while in the US they can be

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<v Speaker 4>more effective because they have more tools to replace the

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<v Speaker 4>board with their own people, they still can have a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of sway in the UK and Europe.

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<v Speaker 1>How long have they been active? You know, it's very

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<v Speaker 1>noisy this story now, But what are the high profile

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<v Speaker 1>cases going back a few years because something not clearly.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got a kind of lens of being interested in

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<v Speaker 1>climate and so on. But if I think back a

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<v Speaker 1>few years, you've got engine one that performs a similar deal,

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<v Speaker 1>but from the opposite perspective. So trying to force companies

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<v Speaker 1>to be more ESG which you know, we can all

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<v Speaker 1>debate till the counts come home how effective it was

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<v Speaker 1>as a category. But nonetheless that seemed to be the

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<v Speaker 1>dominant activist investor trend three years ago. Is it just

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<v Speaker 1>that they were noisy and high profile, but actually there

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<v Speaker 1>were other opposing deals going on.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so I'd say Engine is a bit of a

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<v Speaker 4>unique animal this pressure to you know, move towards ESG.

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<v Speaker 4>But interestingly, even in the UK, just in the last

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<v Speaker 4>few weeks, Engine and Elliott invested in the same target

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<v Speaker 4>in the UK, Smith's Group, which is an industrial conglomerate,

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<v Speaker 4>and Smith did announce a breakup. Now people at Smith

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<v Speaker 4>would claim we were working on this review for months,

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<v Speaker 4>has nothing to do with Engine and Elliott. Maybe just

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<v Speaker 4>a coincidence, wink wink. But so now it's interesting to

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<v Speaker 4>see Engine and Elliot's interest converge.

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<v Speaker 1>So interesting.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so I think you know, Elliott has targeted oil

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<v Speaker 4>and gas companies before, and in fact, yesterday they announced

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<v Speaker 4>that they had built a huge stake two point five

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<v Speaker 4>billion in Phillip sixty six and they are pushing for

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<v Speaker 4>a breakup big asset sales there. And they've also built

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<v Speaker 4>a stake in sun Core. So they've done oil and

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<v Speaker 4>gas before, but it's never really been about we want

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<v Speaker 4>you to become a green company. It's more about we

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<v Speaker 4>want you to run your business more efficiently, get rid

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<v Speaker 4>of the parts that you shouldn't keep that aren't as profitable,

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<v Speaker 4>and really they just do the step they push for,

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<v Speaker 4>the short term steps that will boost the stock so

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<v Speaker 4>that they can cash out.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of the banks in the UK actually or

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<v Speaker 2>some of the banks had activist investors on their bank their.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean HSBC had a big Barkleys. So really

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<v Speaker 4>in Europe they target every sector. The thing is activists

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<v Speaker 4>are or definitely more active in the US, but it's

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<v Speaker 4>also they're kind of running out of ideas in the

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<v Speaker 4>US to a certain extent because there's so many activists

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<v Speaker 4>and so many companies have already been targeted. So I

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<v Speaker 4>think the ideas in the last few years, let's look

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<v Speaker 4>to Europe, where companies might be more vulnerable and maybe

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<v Speaker 4>it's less competitive. We can find unique targets that others

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<v Speaker 4>haven't already ide'd and see what changes we can push through.

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<v Speaker 4>And we've definitely seen that for years eron.

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<v Speaker 2>I imagine if you're a chief executive actually having a

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<v Speaker 2>shareholder activist on your back. It's probably one of the

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<v Speaker 2>worst things. I mean, it could make you better, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's stressful. Do we know if they're you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>negotiations or the talks are friendly, or do they even talk.

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<v Speaker 2>What do we know about the bpks.

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<v Speaker 4>We don't know much. What we do know is that

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<v Speaker 4>BP has traditional advisors Goldman mor and Stanley Roby Warshaw

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<v Speaker 4>that it would normally work with. The reality is BP

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<v Speaker 4>management knew they were vulnerable, so I would be shocked

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<v Speaker 4>if they don't have a defense plan in the cupboard

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<v Speaker 4>already how to react if an Elliott or someone like

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<v Speaker 4>Elliott appears. You're absolutely right, it makes boardroom CEOs nervous.

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<v Speaker 4>But there's a catch to that theory, because interestingly CEOs

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<v Speaker 4>sometimes have to make difficult decisions, whether that's job cuts,

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<v Speaker 4>asset sales. Sometimes having an activist is actually a good

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<v Speaker 4>thing because it gives you that leverage you need where

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<v Speaker 4>you say, if we don't make these radical changes, it

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<v Speaker 4>could be worse. So and you see the same thing

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<v Speaker 4>for institutional investors, the ones we would consider maybe slightly

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<v Speaker 4>or more passive or boring, and they actually might also

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<v Speaker 4>and we even receive some calls they don't want to

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<v Speaker 4>say it on the record saying we applaud that Elliot's

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<v Speaker 4>there because we want BP to make changes. They're, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>losing money on BP. They want the stock to rebound,

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<v Speaker 4>and they're like, Elliott will provide that catalyst. That's necessary.

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<v Speaker 2>What's the most efficient way of getting stuff done? You

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<v Speaker 2>know you have sometimes I'm in a deals right, So

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<v Speaker 2>if you see a vulnerable company, maybe a shell looks

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<v Speaker 2>at BP and says I want some of their assets.

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<v Speaker 2>You could have a short seller, you could have an

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<v Speaker 2>activist investor, like how do you divv this up? Like

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<v Speaker 2>who is it who gets their first or is everyone

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<v Speaker 2>looking at similar assets.

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<v Speaker 4>So in the case of BP, and we wrote this recently,

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<v Speaker 4>several of the big rivals, even before Elliott showed up,

0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.360
<v Speaker 4>before we broke that story, have been running the numbers.

0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.240
<v Speaker 4>Everyone is sitting there waiting who makes the first move.

0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:59.880
<v Speaker 4>And the interesting thing about BP is it's a really

0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:04.680
<v Speaker 4>crown jewel a British corporate history. So imagine this scenario.

0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:06.640
<v Speaker 4>What if one of the big Americans, whether it be

0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.120
<v Speaker 4>Exon Chevron, and this is all theoretical, what if they

0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.040
<v Speaker 4>made a move. Do you think the British government would

0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:15.000
<v Speaker 4>sit there and let that happen. Big question mark what

0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.720
<v Speaker 4>I could see in theory we could they do well?

0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:22.680
<v Speaker 4>They have national security laws that they could try to use.

0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:25.439
<v Speaker 4>But can you imagine Trump getting on the phone and saying, hey,

0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:28.440
<v Speaker 4>how about our special relationship, how about the trade deal

0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.480
<v Speaker 4>you wanted to do exactly so you better let us through.

0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:35.320
<v Speaker 4>I think the more realistic scenario could be they would

0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:38.120
<v Speaker 4>make a call to Shell, which is the most obvious partner,

0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.319
<v Speaker 4>another British major that has had way better fortunes has

0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.800
<v Speaker 4>you know, shares have gone up as BPS has gone down,

0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:47.160
<v Speaker 4>and they could say, we want you to do a

0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.280
<v Speaker 4>deal and create a true British champion, because if you

0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.280
<v Speaker 4>combine them, you would have one of the biggest oil

0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.200
<v Speaker 4>majors and they could, you know, really go neck and

0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:56.559
<v Speaker 4>neck with the exons of the world.

0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:59.360
<v Speaker 2>When you look at activists investors, are they I mean

0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.280
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned that actually a lot of them are looking

0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:05.040
<v Speaker 2>more at the UK. Is it easier to change things

0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.520
<v Speaker 2>for a UK company, a British based company than it

0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:08.280
<v Speaker 2>is for Europe.

0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.480
<v Speaker 4>So I think UK is definitely the most attractive European market.

0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.040
<v Speaker 4>We saw that in the data last year. I think

0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.160
<v Speaker 4>it's a mix of Maybe some of the rules make

0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:19.120
<v Speaker 4>it easier, but I think it's mostly and this this

0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.959
<v Speaker 4>applies to overall M and A, not just activism. The

0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.400
<v Speaker 4>UK is always well usually the most attractive and most

0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:29.439
<v Speaker 4>active market, and that's because I think investors here are

0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.840
<v Speaker 4>more receptive to M and A. You don't get government

0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.199
<v Speaker 4>involvement as much. We all know what happens in France

0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:37.520
<v Speaker 4>when you try to buy a French company. Everyone cites

0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.840
<v Speaker 4>the famous example of don On when PEPSI was looking

0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:43.000
<v Speaker 4>at don On yogurt, all of a sudden, overnight became

0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:48.800
<v Speaker 4>a nationally strategic asset and the deal never happened, and everyone, yeah, yeah,

0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:52.559
<v Speaker 4>is yoga is important? I won't disagree. Whereas the UK

0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.280
<v Speaker 4>has always been more receptive to takeovers, and so I

0:13:56.320 --> 0:14:00.400
<v Speaker 4>think in terms of simplicity, lack of political blow back,

0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:02.960
<v Speaker 4>also some of the corporate governance rules, the UK is

0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.760
<v Speaker 4>always the easiest target after the US, I would argue,

0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:08.719
<v Speaker 4>So that's why we see a lot of activity here.

0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.360
<v Speaker 4>And then for any government you know, as you'll know,

0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:14.600
<v Speaker 4>the UK has to straddle this fine line between we

0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:17.240
<v Speaker 4>want to build national champions, but we also want to

0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:20.240
<v Speaker 4>be open to the world, and so blocking deals would

0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.520
<v Speaker 4>send obviously the wrong message. And that's another reason I

0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:25.920
<v Speaker 4>think why people think, if I'm going to do a deal,

0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:26.400
<v Speaker 4>let's go.

0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.280
<v Speaker 1>To the UK, a little focus on the underdog, those

0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.720
<v Speaker 1>bits of the business that they that be people now

0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.440
<v Speaker 1>be encouraged to sell. As the Global deals editor, do

0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, I know it's not trendy. I know it's

0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:41.760
<v Speaker 1>not you know, Trump compliant with drill baby drill to

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.160
<v Speaker 1>be thinking about you know, solar and wind. A couple

0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:47.520
<v Speaker 1>of years ago, they were seen to be good bets.

0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Of course, the return on investment is not what it

0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.680
<v Speaker 1>is with oil and gas for now, but long term,

0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:54.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, they do they do. They do have a

0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:56.880
<v Speaker 1>kind of longevity to them that oil and gas does

0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:57.200
<v Speaker 1>not have.

0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.480
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely, I think, you know, ten years now, we'll be

0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.080
<v Speaker 4>having a different conversation.

0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.840
<v Speaker 1>And this is.

0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.280
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely but I think for now, you know, there's a

0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:12.280
<v Speaker 4>very good chance that Elliott could or demand the BP

0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:15.160
<v Speaker 4>sell exactly those businesses. So they own a solar energy

0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.000
<v Speaker 4>and battery storage business. They've built a huge ev charging network,

0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.240
<v Speaker 4>and you know they also have a big retail business.

0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.360
<v Speaker 4>You know, whether that be truck stops or every American

0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.600
<v Speaker 4>knows the BP gas stations. I think you call them

0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:32.880
<v Speaker 4>petrol stations over here, right, and you know they'll they'll

0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.680
<v Speaker 4>probably press them to sell that kind of non core

0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:36.479
<v Speaker 4>and really.

0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:38.240
<v Speaker 1>Just someone will pick them up quite cheap.

0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:41.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, someone could pick them up quite cheap. And I

0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.800
<v Speaker 4>think you're absolutely right. In the short term, those renewable

0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.640
<v Speaker 4>type assets are the ones that investors don't want BP

0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:49.800
<v Speaker 4>or others to hold. But I think you know, in

0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:51.960
<v Speaker 4>the long term they might regret that. But when you

0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.560
<v Speaker 4>have Elliott knocking on your door, you're thinking more short

0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:55.680
<v Speaker 4>term than long term.

0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:57.840
<v Speaker 2>In the short term, who I mean, I can't ask

0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.320
<v Speaker 2>you who's next. But do you think we'll see more

0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:02.080
<v Speaker 2>activist investors come in?

0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:02.680
<v Speaker 3>I do.

0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:04.400
<v Speaker 4>I think we'll see more. And I think the big

0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:06.800
<v Speaker 4>trend that we saw last year and that will continue

0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:10.000
<v Speaker 4>this year is the push for simplification. So all these

0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.840
<v Speaker 4>big conglomerates, let's think of Unilever, they're selling their ice

0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.920
<v Speaker 4>cream business, Ben and Jerry's Reckitt, They're selling their home

0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.040
<v Speaker 4>care business, all the cleaning products I love using at home.

0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.440
<v Speaker 4>And the reality is, you know, the investors are rewarding

0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:24.920
<v Speaker 4>those moves. So I've been doing this long enough to

0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.080
<v Speaker 4>know the pendulum swings back and forth. Right now, the

0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:30.600
<v Speaker 4>pendulum is swinging towards simplification focus, and that's what BEEP

0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.280
<v Speaker 4>needs to do. But again, in five years from now,

0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:36.120
<v Speaker 4>we'll be talking about how companies need to diversify, which

0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:39.240
<v Speaker 4>I guess exactly, which I guess is good for business,

0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.320
<v Speaker 4>for bankers and for m and air reporters.

0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:51.480
<v Speaker 2>Erin, thank you, thanks for listening to this week's In

0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.360
<v Speaker 2>the City from Bloomberg. This episode was hosted by me

0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:57.280
<v Speaker 2>Francin Laqua with a Legro Stratton. In the City is

0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:01.320
<v Speaker 2>produced by Somersaudi and Moses and damp designed by Blake Maples.

0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.159
<v Speaker 2>Brendan Francis Newman is our executive producer. Special thanks to

0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:09.560
<v Speaker 2>Aaron Kirschfield. Please subscribe, rate, and review wherever you listen

0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:10.320
<v Speaker 2>to podcasts.