1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: How are you doing, io? Are you good? Welcome to 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,559 Speaker 1: the studio. Thank you. I really like this studio. It 3 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: has the effect of like the womb. Now I come 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: in here and I feel safe and hello Zach, Zach 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 1: right here, I'm here Zach our editor and what other 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: title editors? Such an underestimation of what Zaa does on 7 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 1: the show. All the credits on the show are fucked. 8 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: I'm like, none of this actually equates to what everybody does. Yeah, well, 9 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: I'm glad we're doing this episode of the show so 10 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: that we can actually talk about what the fuck happens. Yeah. 11 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: So this episode is going to have a lot of spoilers, 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,639 Speaker 1: basically all the spoilers for the whole season. So if 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: you haven't heard the series, go back and binge it first. 14 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 1: So we were just listening to that south By Southwest talk. 15 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: So before we launched the show, Io and I went 16 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: to south By Southwest to like play a trailer. But 17 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: I told everybody I knew that we were premiering It's 18 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: Out by Self West, So I for sure got eighty 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: percent of the value of anything. It's out by Southwest 20 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: is getting to say that you prepared It's health Byself. Yeah, Hi, everybody, 21 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 1: thanks for coming. It's like just intimate enough to perfect. 22 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: It's good because we got some very intimate conversations to share. 23 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: This was before the show would come out, and so 24 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: there were a lot of secrets that you couldn't talk about. Oh, 25 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: I want to tell them so many things about nights. Oh, 26 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: We're still in the last phases of the investigation, so 27 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: I'm still like, I want to tell you guys what's 28 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: coming on. But one of the big secrets didn't have 29 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: to do with the investigation at all, right, It had 30 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: to do with storytelling decision that we made. When do 31 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: we reveal Hio's connection to the story? Right, And we've 32 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: always for as long as you and I were talking 33 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: about the story, that was like the thing that we 34 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: read with it's like and it's investigated by the kid. 35 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: It's so cool, Like it's like this personal journey, and 36 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: that's what made it interesting. And so then Mark came in, 37 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: Mark Smirling, our other editor. Well, Mark came in at 38 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: the eleventh hour with this hair brand idea that turned 39 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: out to be genius. That was, let's not reveal it 40 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: until after Rebecca's told the entirety of her story. The 41 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: story of them meetings. So just a few weeks before 42 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: the show launched, we went to south By Southwest to 43 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: test out Mark's new structure idea of holding back my 44 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: relationship with Rebecca. Yeah, there's a there's a major secret 45 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: that wha we will have probably and then we'll talk 46 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: about this secret. And then we played the trailer and 47 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: the trailer doesn't reveal that I'm her kid. And then 48 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: I was like, and by the way, so how did 49 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: you find out about this story? Well, the big secret 50 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: is that Rebecca is my mom. I think it works. 51 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: And I remember there was an audible gasp in the 52 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: room and we were like, Okay, where let's do it today, 53 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: Zach Austin and I peel back the curtain a bit. 54 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: We'll give you some juicy secrets about how we made 55 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: the show and we'll reflect on how we feel about 56 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: it now from Crimetown. I'm io till it right, And 57 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: this is a behind the scenes bonus episode of the 58 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: Ballad of Billy Balls Austen, helloo, all right, tell about 59 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: what you want to know. Well, first of all, what's 60 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: Billy's real name? What's the full legal name, William Heightsman. 61 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: There might be a daughter and I think my mom 62 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: might know her name for some reason. She thinks that 63 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: she lives in Oregon. All right, well, if she exists, 64 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: I'm confident we can find them. To me, what's missing 65 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: all of this, It's like we need the other we have. 66 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: If we get this police report, we find out what 67 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 1: happens then and you can introduce some of that. Yeah, yeah, 68 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: that would be as at the end of this, there's 69 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: some sort of coming together these two Io and Rebecca. 70 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 1: Either bad or good, we don't know, but something's common 71 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: sort of see it. Yeah. Epilogue four, The Ballad of 72 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: the Ballad? All right, Io, So how did this whole 73 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: thing come together? How did it start? I was planning 74 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: to write a book. It was called The Ballad of 75 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: Billy Balls and His Baby Girl. That was and it 76 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: was gonna be a memoir, nonfiction, murder investigation book. And 77 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,720 Speaker 1: then I was listening to all these true crime podcasts. 78 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: I went through a breakup, and I was like in 79 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: the sweltering sun in Joshua Tree building furniture, listening to 80 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: every true crime podcast I get my hands on. I'm 81 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: a sick motherfucker. Like everybody listening to this podcast, You're great, 82 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: You're all great, Yeah, and then I heard your name 83 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,239 Speaker 1: as I was listening to Crimetown. I'm Zach Stewart Pontier. 84 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: I'm Mark Smirley. Welcome to Crimetown. I was like, no 85 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 1: fucking way. I'd met Zach probably fifteen or so years 86 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: ago through my friend Jamie Raisin shout out Jamie, who 87 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: was working on a movie that Zach was editing, and 88 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: he wouldn't stop talking about this brilliant young editor, Zach, 89 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: Zach Zach. So when I found out that I had 90 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: gotten into podcasting, I was just like, I know, I 91 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: want to make a podcast. I don't know, I want 92 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: to like this medium is beautiful and exciting and really cool. 93 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: And then I just asked you to have lunch. You 94 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: were starting to work on Crimetime season two and it 95 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: was freezing and we were at a Whole Food and 96 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: like gwanas, I told him about the book, and he 97 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: was like, that would make an epic podcast. Have you 98 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: ever thought about making a podcast? And I was like, well, 99 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 1: I've thought about it, but I didn't. Oh, yeah, that's genius. 100 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: Because he was a musician, and because you were saying 101 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: my mom had documented the big parts of her life, 102 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: he was always recordings, and her accents so crazy and wild, 103 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: and the way she talks is so crazy and wild, 104 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: and I figured everybody around would also be audio gold. 105 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: And so as soon as you said it, I was 106 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: like being like, yeah, yes, it has to be a podcast, 107 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: and I kept writing and whatever, but it really at 108 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: that point I was like, Oh, that's what this is 109 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: supposed to be, right, And then I went off and 110 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: tried to make it on my own, which was a 111 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: great lesson in people saying no to things and you 112 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: being like, no, I'm sure. Everybody I talked to from 113 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: these other networks and stuff, we're like, well, have you 114 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: found the Killer? Do you know how it ends? And 115 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: I was like, no, you don't understand. It's not It's 116 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: just it's an amorphous. It's a study in humanity. And 117 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: nobody wants to hear that. They're like, who's the good guy, 118 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: who's the bad guy? And I was like, no, it's 119 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: it's about love but death. But I couldn't articulate it, 120 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: but I knew you got it because we came up 121 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: with it to get there. Basically, Yeah, and then the 122 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: heavens parted and I came in here and you guys 123 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: were like, so this is Austin, go have lunch with him. 124 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, who the fuck is You guys 125 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: are basically like we are slammed and Austin's the man 126 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: and we want him to be like the lead on this. Yeah. 127 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: I mean yeah. From my perspective, it was Zach just 128 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: being like, all right, so what do you think about this? 129 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: There's and he gave me your pitch deck. What was 130 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: the spiel that he How did he explain? It was 131 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: his elevator pitch of the ballot? I mean, I don't 132 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: remember it that clearly, but it was something like, all right, 133 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: so there's this murder mystery that takes place in the 134 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: East Village in the early eighties. And I was like, oooh, okay, 135 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: all right, keep going. He was a musician who all right, 136 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: all right, and then you have to work with Io 137 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: till it right, And I was like no, and so yeah, 138 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: that that was it. I was excited about it. I 139 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: was excited about the prospect of it. We had no 140 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:40,319 Speaker 1: idea what it was going to be, and so that 141 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: was that was honestly a little exciting. Um. So it 142 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: was a thing where it was go have lunch with 143 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: Io and see how you get along, see if you'll 144 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 1: be able to work together. And then we sat down 145 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: and had lunch and you were lovely and you told 146 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,599 Speaker 1: me about California and all this stuff, and I was like, 147 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 1: all right, great do it? Was it thumbs up like 148 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: in the yeah, in the in the lunch where you 149 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,199 Speaker 1: guys like we're doing this for me, I was like, 150 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: I had no questions about him. I think our only 151 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: question at that point was whether or not somebody was 152 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: going to give us the money to make it right 153 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: until we got Cadence Um really on board and they 154 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: came in and they were great. The first trip when 155 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,679 Speaker 1: I came to New York in December, I came here 156 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: for a week before we had a green light. I 157 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: bought the ticket. Yeah. That week we just kind of 158 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: like sat down. I remember you like asking me what 159 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: do you hope to get from this project? And it 160 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: was still all it was like raw meat, you know, 161 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: it still very like un seasoned. Then we should play 162 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: we should play some of that in yeah, because it's 163 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: like so interesting to hear, like the wide eyed sort 164 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: of yeah we saw so in terms of this project, 165 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: what exactly do you want to get from this? This 166 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: is my first recorded sit down with Austin. We need 167 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,959 Speaker 1: to piece together a picture of who Billy was, a 168 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: real picture of who Billy was versus my mom's interpretation. 169 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: And then we need to somehow, which is going to 170 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: be the hardest part, crack the NYPD case files and 171 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: get them to possibly incriminate themselves in a murder. And 172 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: it might just be that it might be right there 173 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: on a piece of paper, arresting officer so and so, 174 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,599 Speaker 1: and this is the guy that shot him. That's the 175 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: guy I want to get to. I want to find 176 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,599 Speaker 1: who the dude is. Who is the guy in the 177 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 1: cowboy hat. It's like strangely prescient or whatever. Yeah, certain 178 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: things that you're saying, I absolutely haven't. I want to 179 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: sit down with him, and I want to ask him, 180 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: do you remember this man? Do you remember this day 181 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: it happened? Why did you shoot this guy? Why did 182 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: you go back to the hospital? Why did he die? 183 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: And then certain things are just like you know, and 184 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 1: maybe he's so old he'll be like we needed to 185 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: get rid of him. You know. Maybe the guy's dead. 186 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 1: I don't know, but if I could find his killer 187 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: and have a real conversation with him, it might set 188 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: my mom freeze. Really what I would hope it's a really, 189 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: it's just the fucking interesting thing about this process. This 190 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: show is such a People have expressed surprise at the 191 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: fact that we were making it as we put it out, 192 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 1: and I think that that doesn't even begin to touch 193 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 1: on the like it was real, live growth and real 194 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: live emotion and things changing in my family week to week. 195 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: This is impossible for most people to imagine. The episodes 196 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: came out at six am on Thursday mornings, and at 197 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: one am, three am, four am on every fucking Wednesday night. 198 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,959 Speaker 1: Austin is here in the studio most likely with Kenny, 199 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,559 Speaker 1: probably Zach making the ship before it comes out in 200 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: like a matter of hours, and Sambert engineer. Over the 201 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 1: course of the season, you kind of go from being like, 202 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: oh my god, we only have four days to do this, 203 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: like holy shit, to like by the end of sy 204 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 1: you're like, we have four days, Like we're fine, we 205 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: got time, Okay, Yeah, let's try this. I mean we 206 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: got four days still has to come out. Yeah, Like 207 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: it was not pre done, It was not preordained at all. 208 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: A lot of things happened last minute or by stroke 209 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 1: of luck. Everything from Ron Kuby coming in to save 210 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: the day, to that faint imprint of the undercover CoP's 211 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: name on the police report, and even basic production choices 212 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: like what our theme song would be on and also 213 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: the theme song. Whole thing. We went through so many, yeah, 214 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 1: because I was like really wanting to use Billy's music. 215 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 1: That was a whole thing. Yeah, So we had Kenny 216 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: take sound of Billy's song. We asked Kenny Qcak, our 217 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: resident composer and sound engineer, to try turning a few 218 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 1: of Billy's tracks into potential theme songs for the show. 219 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: Here's one early sketch. You should play some of that 220 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 1: and you'll hear just how fucking wrong they are. And 221 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 1: I take total and I was the one pushing it 222 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: so that I'm not It's not Kenny. Kenny was actually 223 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: following the horrible direction that I was. But we were 224 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: trying stuff. You have to try, Yeah, to try, you 225 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: have to try. We swing hard. But when it's not working, 226 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: like pretty much everybody gets on board, Okay, it's not working, Yeah, 227 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,839 Speaker 1: let's try something else. And like I thought of Light 228 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: Asylum with something you really saved the day. That fucking song, 229 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: kid ass, you had a relationship with Shannon. I've known 230 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: Shannon since I was like a teenager. Yeah, I'm talking 231 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: about Shannon funchis the lead singer of Light Asylum. I 232 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: loved Shannon. She used to perform at the Bowery Poetry 233 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: Club with my mom. I think I just knew her 234 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: from the village, from like when I literally I was 235 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: a kid. And now people are like rediscovering light Asylum 236 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: or first time discovering light Asylum and like, oh my god, 237 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: are they a good band? Sho we play some of 238 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: their other music for yes, this is one of my 239 00:14:53,880 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: favorite Light Asylum songs. It's called IPC. They're so good. 240 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: But what people don't know is that the decision to 241 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: use Light Asylum happened probably a week before we launched 242 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 1: the show, if that, which is why you don't hear 243 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: Light Asylum in our trailer. Coming up, we get into 244 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: our favorite moments from making the show. That's after this 245 00:15:47,920 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: break and okay, so we're back in the studio with me, 246 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: Austin and our editor Zach Like, what what are some 247 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: of your favorite parts of the show. Our favorite parts 248 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: of making the show. The fact that we got the answers, 249 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: like that's just so fucking I'm so proud of that, Like, 250 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: that's so insane. We found the guy in the cowboy hat, 251 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: we got the police report, We like Amanda talk to us, 252 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: you know, like, we got we found his body. Yeah. 253 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: All the things that I wanted to solve, we solved, 254 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: which is crazy. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I already cried 255 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: about this in the credits. But my relationship with Austin. 256 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:46,720 Speaker 1: I'm not looking at him because I can't. But my 257 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: relationship with Austin is like a gift that I will 258 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: never you know. Yeah, that's something for life. You guys 259 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: have been through it. Yeah, And I think there's just 260 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: it's so personal, and my mom's such a character, and 261 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 1: and there's a you know, I've freaked out a couple 262 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: of times and had like just like irrational panic about 263 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: weird shit and just stick in the mud about the 264 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,399 Speaker 1: wrong things because I was just having an emotional response 265 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: to how crazy this whole process was. And like there's 266 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: Austin just being like, Okay, I'm gonna take a walk 267 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: and talk to you and like give you space to 268 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: air your feelings and stay on the fucking phone with 269 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: you for three hours while you figure out what the 270 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: fuck's wrong with you, and that is a when you're 271 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 1: dealing with something as emotional and trauma connected as this 272 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: whole thing was. Was essential to making it possible. So 273 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: I got Austin out of this. Um. Yeah, I don't 274 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,360 Speaker 1: know what about you. What are some of your favorite things? 275 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:53,399 Speaker 1: I love the Hard Island episode the birds. The birds 276 00:17:53,440 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: are nice. The sounds want to leave you alone for 277 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: a minute with them? Yeah, you could leave me alone 278 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: for just a few minutes, maybe one. But I've been 279 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 1: renound birds. Why because all my life when I was 280 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: drawn up, my brother had birds are always mostly harmless 281 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: fur all of them. Where do you keep all of 282 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: those birds? Isn't bad? Pronounced aviary? The birds? Okay, we 283 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: have to tell them that the Birds was Austin's. I 284 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: want the whole world to know. They know, they know 285 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: most of it is Austin's genius. No, alright, move one 286 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: found compliments. Just everyone knows that's true. I love the 287 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: way you hand that interview with the guy in the 288 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 1: cowboy hat, who wasn't actually wearing a cowboy hat. But 289 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: but I love the way that that worked. It was 290 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: really a special thing. I wonder if you're comfortable telling 291 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 1: me a little bit about like what you felt in 292 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: that situation, Like, was that a rare occurrence or that 293 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: like a conference that I actually end up in a 294 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: shoot out of any time? And I was not happy 295 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: with it at all. I mean, you can't be happy 296 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: being involved in something like that. So it's bothered you 297 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: not bet you didn't want that to happen. Yeah, I 298 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: can't amaze anyone being happy about it. Obviously we were 299 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: shooting people over the cops of like forty years and 300 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 1: he was the only one. He's the only one. Yeah, 301 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: oh my god. Like the fact that you you were 302 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: able to have a connection with that person, I think 303 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: made the show in a lot of ways, because I 304 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: think if that goes a different way, it's like not 305 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: as and it would have totally been reasonable for it 306 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,920 Speaker 1: to go a different way because of everything that everybody 307 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: who listened to the show totally understands. But I just 308 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: love that. Thank you very much, all right, take care bye. 309 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: I love the ending. I love like I think of 310 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: that like Tarantino like moment of seeing them like go 311 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: off into the sunset, and I love that, which was 312 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 1: your gene? Yeah, I we should give them credit here. Yeah, 313 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: this was not I mean so it was that in 314 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: the studio with your mom during that last sit down. 315 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: It all happened in the way that you heard in 316 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: that episode. You revealed to your mom whatever she wanted 317 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: to know. It was very tense. Do you want to 318 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: know anything about the cop or any of that stuff? 319 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: I'd like to see him fry and be six feet 320 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: on there. All right, That's that's it. I mean, side note, 321 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: I'm sitting here in the studio watching this happen. And 322 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: when she asked about his name, what's his name? Are 323 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 1: you sure you want to know that? Yeah? I want 324 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: to know why? Why do you think I could see 325 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: you processing it? And I'm like gripping the seats. I'm like, 326 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: don't tell her, don't tell her, don't tell her. I 327 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: don't know, Mom. Let's I gotta think about whether or 328 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 1: not it's smart. It's kids to tell you that that 329 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,119 Speaker 1: interview did happen the way that it happened in the 330 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: last episode. But zach as is your role in this 331 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: show to kind of supervise the bigger picture structural things. 332 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: You had an idea to bring it back and end 333 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: with the scene with Billy. There was a story about 334 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: you guys going to Boston, right. Oh, it's like a 335 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: beautiful thing. It's literally them driving off into the well 336 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:07,199 Speaker 1: so the snow sets, said, I imagine her draped across 337 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,360 Speaker 1: the bench seat, her bleached blonde head resting on Billy's 338 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: thigh as he skids through the snow, a cigarette dangling 339 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: from his mouth. She reaches up and caresses the collar 340 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: bones of the man she will love forever as they 341 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: sing together. Freezing air flies up from the highway below, 342 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 1: but they're unfazed, warmed by love. God, we knew when 343 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: my mom sat down and she sang that fucking song. 344 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: Austin and I looked at each other and we knew. 345 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: Even she knew, and she said it, and it's the 346 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: best end of for your show. More positive questions, like 347 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: but I think that's a great way to end the 348 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: whole show. Sure, but that was not originally what we 349 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: thought the ending was going to be. As we were 350 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: structuring the show, as we were reporting everything, where we 351 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: were certain it was going to end on Heart Island 352 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: with your mom in front of the grave. That's really 353 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: what we thought. Yeah, but until you took that trip, 354 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: good old Rebecca never fails to surprise you. We had 355 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: always imagined you had always imagined that that would be 356 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: this Catharsis for your for your mom, which it wasn't. 357 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: So then we're constantly okay, well, then there needs to 358 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: be a final sitdown. But the final sitdown wasn't going 359 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: to be in the studio originally not going to be 360 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: at her house, which would have been a totally different thing. 361 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: And then circumstances shift again and now it's in the studio, 362 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: and now okay, we're rolling with that. Okay. So it's 363 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: like you we're like, it's a very live ball and 364 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: all of the decisions that we're making are kind of 365 00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: like reacting to things also being present and trying to 366 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: like mold it the way we think it should kind 367 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: of be going. It's a fucking fascinating process. Well, I 368 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: just want to say, like, none of the work that 369 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: I've ever done has touched people the way this has. Wow. Yeah, 370 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,359 Speaker 1: like your openness and you're like the personal nature of 371 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: this story like profoundly impacted the people that listened. So 372 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 1: it's like all these voicemails, all these emails, all these comments, 373 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: like you're just like wow, Like you know, people liked Crimetown, 374 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: but it's not the same thing. It's not deep, it's 375 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: not as deep. Yeah, to like be a part of 376 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: this thing that like was connecting on that level was 377 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: really special. Yeah. It feels really really amazing to hear 378 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: and see and read all these methoges from people saying 379 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: that it it's like impacted them, emotionally changed them, pushed them, 380 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 1: made them think about things. You know, this both affected 381 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: me as a mother and a daughter. And the phrase 382 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: the past matters for your journey, but the ultimate end 383 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: goal is radically authentic presence with another person that just 384 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: resonated with me with the past with my father and 385 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 1: also wondering what it is that I'm doing to my 386 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: own children. So I just listened to the whole podcast. 387 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: It was amazing. You guys like looking touch me and yeah, wow, 388 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: just fucking well. Go and ask man bawling in his 389 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: car thank you. I actually lost someone as well who 390 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: was the lost of my life, and I realized that 391 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: I listened to this podcast, but I will love him forever. 392 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,479 Speaker 1: So anyway, I wanted to thank you. Also, thank your 393 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: mom for most of you being so vulnerable, and thank you. 394 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: I agree with Ham that doctor Ham, that vulnerability is 395 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: a superpower. I feel stronger than I was when I 396 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: went into this. I feel that vulnerability hasn't cost me anything, 397 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: Like it was painful to make it, but like I find, 398 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: I think it would be more painful to make something 399 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: that wasn't vulnerable. If nothing else from this story, I 400 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: hope that people take that that would be incredible more 401 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: vulnerability and honesty and art and in the world. Yeah, 402 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: what's your life like now? Io post show? My life 403 00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: now involves a lot of desert and I have been 404 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: remodeling a house and like building furniture in it, and 405 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: I think that's just like what I created to escape 406 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:14,600 Speaker 1: my brain. Mostly I drive around in my nineteen ninety 407 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: Ford Ranger pickup truck that has no AC It's white, 408 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: and it's currently between one hundred and four and one 409 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 1: hundred and thirteen degrees daily in Josh Retreat, but it's 410 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: dry heat, so it's manageable, right, And I take my 411 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: little dogs and I put them in my truck, and 412 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: I load my truck up with tools, and then I 413 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: go and I put things together and build things and like, 414 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: listen to Weird Murder pot I'm basically right back where 415 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: I started, And I, Oh, how is your mom? Doing. 416 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: How's Rebecca great question? My mom, She's okay. That's the 417 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: honest answer is she's okay. You know, she doesn't have 418 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: the context of what we were making. She did not 419 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 1: want to listen to it because it's not entertainment for her. 420 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 1: It's her greatest trauma. And so I think there was 421 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 1: a lot of kind of feeling like her most personal 422 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: information was being put out in the world without her control, 423 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: and she was like kind of flailing around in the 424 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: dark a little bit. There was a moment though, during 425 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: this show. So my mom has a version of my 426 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: childhood that's different than mine, where she thinks it was 427 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: you know, roses and peaches and glorious, because she doesn't 428 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: remember a lot of what happened. And so my dad 429 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: came in for his episode and he in that interview 430 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: that was the first time he's ever owned the role 431 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: of drugs in his judgment in my childhood. So that 432 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: really changed my relationship with my father. And so she 433 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: went up to lunch at his house in the Bronx 434 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: and he had a conversation with her, and she called 435 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: me afterwards sobbing and said basically apologized for fucking up 436 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: my childhood, for the first time in my whole life, 437 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 1: and I was totally didn't know what to do. I 438 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: was like standing in my late construction site in Joshua 439 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: treat just kind of like, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay. 440 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: I love you, I love you bye. And that is 441 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: a moment that I've literally been waiting for my whole 442 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: life and only happened because of this process. But then booms, 443 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: she went right back into you know, denial and the 444 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: fear and the irrational kind of outbursts. So I think 445 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: in the end, she is better for the fact that 446 00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 1: I've grown through this process. But if she could choose out, 447 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: which she probably would not have done this. Although I 448 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: don't know, you know, it's the heart Island thing, like, 449 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: we don't know how that affected her yet. It's going 450 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: to take time for that to settle in, so I 451 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:18,040 Speaker 1: don't know how she's doing. Just like the show, it's 452 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: complicated and that's what makes it beautiful but also difficult. Wait. Wait, 453 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: so we never got to my favorite parts of the show. 454 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: One of my favorite parts of this was a lot 455 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: of Ioe, your and my venturing out into the city 456 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: and just being knuckleheads and our first reporting trip. We 457 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: went up to the Upper east Side to talk to 458 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: this woman that we're calling Natasha is six and the letch. 459 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,959 Speaker 1: And after that interview, we went and got a sandwich. 460 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: Hot and krusty. That's our best bet. I like HoTT 461 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: and crusty. There black and white cookies are really good. 462 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: And we were standing in line and You're like, uh, 463 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: Ruth Bader Ginsberg is he over there? Ruth Ginsberg is here? 464 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: Oh my god, she was so tiny. It looks like 465 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: Ruth Bader Ginsberg. No, that was Ruth Bader Ginsberg. No 466 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: fucking way, Yeah it was. I don't know. I think 467 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: I was fucking with you and I think it worked. No, 468 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: this was her. I have the Instagram story. I posted 469 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,120 Speaker 1: an Instagram story of this little old lady and wrote 470 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: RBG question mark. I pulled the story back up in 471 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: the studio. Tell me is that her? I don't think so. 472 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: No way. Way. We're coming from Austin Counters and pulls 473 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: up a real photo of RBG online. This is her. 474 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: The hair color is not right, glasses are exactly the same. 475 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it really looks like her. It's hard, 476 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: that's why it looks like her. The posture does seem 477 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: like her. It really, I feel like but I feel 478 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: like a lot of people who are eighty six probably 479 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: might have that posture. This mystery must be solved. Can 480 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: you see her rings anywhere? Is there a picture of 481 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: like her hands anywhere? Because this person has on I'm curious. 482 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: Austin pulls up another picture of RBG that shows her hands, Ezac, 483 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: this is fucking RBG. Look at the rings, Look at 484 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: the rings. You see it? Oh yeah, Oh my god, 485 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: it was fucking RBG. And we didn't fucking talk to her. 486 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: Oh I stared at the whole time. I narrated her 487 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: whole eating experience into the microphone, into the microphone, I 488 00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 1: was thrilled. That's the tape. Ruth Bidder Ginsburgh just finished 489 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: her soup. She's cleaning up her tray. She's cleaning the 490 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: crumbs off her tray. She's such a saying. RBG just 491 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: put on bright red lipstick like a boss. Somebody's coming 492 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: to meet RBG, an older man. RBG is getting up. 493 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: We solved another mystery. Boy RBG like soup. Groundbreaking investigative journalism. 494 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: I just thought it was an old lady who looks 495 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: like her. Unbelievable and I was always trying to think 496 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: in my head of a moment when we could get 497 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: that in the show. Here it is, Here it is. 498 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: I want to thank everybody who's listened to this show 499 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: for all of your feedback, all of your voicemails, everything 500 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: you've written to me online. The response has been tremendous 501 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: and it gives us all so much wind in our sales. 502 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm gonna miss you. Crimetown is Zach Stewart 503 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: Pontier and Mark Smirling. The Ballad of Billy Balls is 504 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: hosted by me, Io till It Right and made in 505 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,480 Speaker 1: partnership with Cadence thirteen. Now you have to find me 506 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: on the internet, and Io loves you on everything. If 507 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: you want to know more about my story, you could 508 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: pick up my memoir Darling Days. We still have that 509 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: voicemail line set up for you to call us. I'm 510 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: going to keep checking it, so please call. The number 511 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: is five to seven zero three nine two nine six 512 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: six zero. Truly, it's one of the greatest joys of 513 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: my life to hear how this show has affected you, 514 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: guys and your dad jokes. This episode was produced by 515 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: me and Kevin Shepherd, our senior producer is the King 516 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 1: Austin Mitchell. Editing is by Zach Stewart Contier and Mark Smirling. 517 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Sam Bear. Music by Kenny Quciak. 518 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: Now you know what that means. Our title track is 519 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: Dark Allies by Light Asylum. Thank you, Shannon and Bruno 520 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: so so so much. You made this show. That's all 521 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: thanks to Daniella, Ariah, Rachel, Lee Wright, Emily Wiedemann, who, 522 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:41,720 Speaker 1: by the way, are all of our girlfriends and wives, 523 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: Green Card Pictures, Alessandro Santro, Bill Clegg, Ben Davis, Oran 524 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,760 Speaker 1: Rosenbaum and the team at Hayden's thirteen, and of course 525 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: my mom, without whom none of this would be possible. 526 00:36:05,360 --> 00:38:39,839 Speaker 1: Never talk out about Babet's god Sa Sa Sa Sa 527 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:01,439 Speaker 1: ny Mony Mon