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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukleman. This is a production of

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Speaker 1: the Bear Grease podcast called The Bear Grease Render, where

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Speaker 1: we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: of the actual bear Grease podcast. Presented by f HF Gear,

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Speaker 1: American Maid, purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed

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Speaker 1: to be as rugged as the place as we explore.

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Speaker 1: We're in Knoxville, Tennessee, on Meat Eaters game Day. I

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Speaker 1: have with me this panel of expert analysts of college football,

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Speaker 1: duck hunting, CrossFit, country living. We got it all here today, folks. Now,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm on the ESPN. Were we are.

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Speaker 1: We are in downtown Knoxville, Tennessee, within sight of where

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Speaker 1: Tennessee Balls. They're kind of roll over the tide uh here.

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Speaker 1: In about five or six hours we are We're at

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Speaker 1: the Meat Eater tailgate tour, which has been a ton

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Speaker 1: of fun. I have a very unique group of guests

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Speaker 1: here with me today. I'll introduce them from right to left.

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Speaker 1: I've got right here, Hunter Spencer from Meat Eater man

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Speaker 1: Old Tennessee Ball himself lives in Virginia.

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Speaker 2: He's spying on them.

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Speaker 1: Hunter. Anything that you see that is graphic graphic design.

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Speaker 1: Most almost everything is Hunter Spencer, including this cool horn

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Speaker 1: getting grilled.

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Speaker 3: Hunter's looks really confused, right, I thought I was sitting

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Speaker 3: next to Josh Hippool honestly.

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Speaker 2: Josh, I don't even know.

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Speaker 1: Really, the head coach of the ball.

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Speaker 2: I thought, I thought you got him out here.

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Speaker 1: Well, this Hunter Spencer here, we have Josh, Josh Bird

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Speaker 1: Bird Bird, and you you work with He runs hunt

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Speaker 1: for us. Yeah, so I kind of got to introduce

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Speaker 1: you guys together. This is Rich Frowning introduced to me

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Speaker 1: as the most fit man in America.

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Speaker 2: Which formerly let's go we're tired. Now, let's go America

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Speaker 2: in the world.

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Speaker 1: World, in the world. World.

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Speaker 2: You're being serious formally okay, fish man in the world.

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Speaker 1: Let's go, hey man, Yeah, I love it.

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Speaker 2: Play a second. That's right.

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Speaker 1: Well, all I was gonna say was I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: we squirrel hunted yesterday and he couldn't lose me.

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Speaker 4: I could tell you we were just creeping. We're just

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Speaker 4: creeping squirrels to squirrels. Yeah, they lost us.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, tell me, how would you introduce you?

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Speaker 4: I competed in CrossFit for twelve thirteen years.

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Speaker 2: Thirteen years if.

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Speaker 4: You count COVID won a couple times as an individual,

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Speaker 4: one a couple of times on a team, own a

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Speaker 4: CrossFit gym in Cookville, Tennessee, and now trying to bring

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Speaker 4: fitness to the hunting space.

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Speaker 2: That's our big thing.

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Speaker 4: We got into hunting, real passionate about it probably the

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Speaker 4: last ten years, and so yeah.

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Speaker 2: That's what we're doing now. Awesome love hunting.

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Speaker 1: And so I let me come back to you guys.

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Speaker 1: Right after Brent, Brent Reeves and then this guy who's

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Speaker 1: never been I don't think you've been on the ritter

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Speaker 1: of this is Garrett Long. Almost everything that's going on

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Speaker 1: at Meat Eater and even with Bear Grease, this guy's

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Speaker 1: involved with but kind of behind the scenes. So I'm

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Speaker 1: really upset that you're here, Garrett, really, man, it's upsetting

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Speaker 1: Garrett's Garrett's like, he's like, he's my boss, so he's

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Speaker 1: running in the.

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Speaker 2: Show man it. I think.

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Speaker 5: The coolest thing I've done at Meat Eater, though, is

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Speaker 5: I actually hired hunter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah really, yeah he was, he started.

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Speaker 6: Man, Wait a minute, me, Yeah, I agree that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, tell me, like in the hunting space, it's

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Speaker 1: clear that you know, in the last at least ten years,

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Speaker 1: like fitness has come up on the radar of something

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Speaker 1: that we should all be, you know, as hunters, which

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Speaker 1: is pretty cool because I think that the narrative for

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Speaker 1: a lot of the hunting community has not been something

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Speaker 1: you know, that would be fitness related. And then when

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Speaker 1: we started, you know, Western hunts and elk hunting kind

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Speaker 1: of came onto the scene and it's like, hey, a

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Speaker 1: big limiting factor of success is just being able to

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Speaker 1: get places. Then you started seeing you know, people marketing

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Speaker 1: to the fitness.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we talked about this a little bit yesterday.

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Speaker 4: My kind of background is like, originally I was born

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Speaker 4: in Michigan in Tennessee for thirty plus years, so whitetail

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Speaker 4: is is kind of for me. And when I started hunting,

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Speaker 4: whitetail was tough because it's sitting still. I have ADHD

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Speaker 4: like or add or something. Something's not right. So I'm

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Speaker 4: a little off, you know, And so that was tough

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Speaker 4: for me. And so I got into turkey hunting first,

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Speaker 4: and turkey hunting I fell in love with. And so

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Speaker 4: you know, it's up down we running gun a lot,

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Speaker 4: you know in Tennessee. And so I then somebody introduced

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Speaker 4: me to elk hunting and from then on I was hooked.

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Speaker 4: And so now I've kind of like made it back

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Speaker 4: to now whitetail is a passion too. So in that

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Speaker 4: whole process, you know, I was competing and training and

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Speaker 4: I'm like, man, there's such a need for like a

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Speaker 4: little bit of science backed hunting fitness preparation. You know,

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Speaker 4: there are some other ones out there and good ones

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Speaker 4: out there, but I feel like we've you know, we've

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Speaker 4: got fifteen years. I was a next strength and conditioning coach.

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Speaker 4: I have degree in exercise science. I've competed for years,

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Speaker 4: and I married the two with the passion that I

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Speaker 4: have hunting. In the last you know, ten years, I

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Speaker 4: would say where we got super serious and then Western

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Speaker 4: hunting in the last six or seven that I've been

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Speaker 4: like next level passionate about. So yeah, we just kind

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Speaker 4: of saw the need there. I was like, Hey, I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna be hunting a lot anyway, I'm gonna be doing

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Speaker 4: these workouts to prepare myself for hunting. Why not just

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Speaker 4: offer them to people online. So that's kind of where

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Speaker 4: Mayhem Hunt started. We have CrossFit Mayhem and we've done

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Speaker 4: that for twelve or fifteen years and we'll still keep

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Speaker 4: that up. But man Mayhem hunt and just hunting has

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Speaker 4: become a huge passion of mine. And I want guys

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Speaker 4: girls to never have to question, hey, should I go

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Speaker 4: after that animal because i'ma have to get it out

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Speaker 4: or either's just no, there's no second thought when we

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Speaker 4: go out. We're like, all right, I don't care if

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Speaker 4: it's a thousand feet up, We're gonna get there. We're

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Speaker 4: gonna get to it and get that animal, and then

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Speaker 4: we're gonna get it out. So that's just you know,

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Speaker 4: we want people more confidence of anything of like hey,

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Speaker 4: I can go out.

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Speaker 2: There and do this right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know. To me, the most positive thing

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Speaker 1: about when you're combining physical fitness and then hunting, which

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Speaker 1: we're all passionate about, is like being physically fit is

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Speaker 1: like a good idea for life in general, you're out

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Speaker 1: hunting or not, and and so it's it's again just

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Speaker 1: one of those like tangible and positive things that comes

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Speaker 1: from being involved in the outdoors.

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Speaker 4: Well. And then I mean there's such a crossover too

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Speaker 4: of like hey, you're harvesting your own meat. It's healthy,

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Speaker 4: we know where it came from. It's not going to

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Speaker 4: a store. It's not overly processed, it's not given all

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Speaker 4: these antibiotics and stuff. So you know, if we can

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Speaker 4: get this healthy, clean meat and then also fuel ourselves

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Speaker 4: for these it's it just it's it makes sense. And

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Speaker 4: then you know, we've talked about it too. Like my personality,

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Speaker 4: I'm just a competitor, right, So, like my whole life

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Speaker 4: has been. I'm one of thirty two first cousins on

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Speaker 4: my mom's side, twenty five or boys, and everything we

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Speaker 4: did was a competition, and so that's just who I am, right,

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Speaker 4: So I competed for years and then when I got done,

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Speaker 4: I'm like, man, I still need to compete and still

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Speaker 4: have that and hunting. I mean, we talked about it yesterday.

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Speaker 4: It's the original competition, right, like us versus that animal.

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Speaker 4: And so for me, I feel like that draw of

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Speaker 4: just the competition side of it is just who I am.

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Speaker 4: And then you got the like team aspect of it.

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Speaker 4: I you know, all these guys are going solo. Hunt's

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Speaker 4: good for you. I like, you know, if I've got

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Speaker 4: one other person and there's a team and we're kind

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Speaker 4: of like figuring out a plan, there's like just there's

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Speaker 4: something to it.

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Speaker 2: And so all of it.

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Speaker 4: What I've done in the past, Mary's super well to

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Speaker 4: what we're doing now, and man, I just it just

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Speaker 4: blessed to be where we're at.

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Speaker 2: Man, I love love it.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to Garrett, let's let's combine our heads here,

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Speaker 1: Hunter and Brent. What what would you ask the fittest

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Speaker 1: man in the world if he were sitting by you, Like,

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Speaker 1: what intelligent question would you ask them?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: Because it's going to take all listen, listen, here's the

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Speaker 1: best analogy. If I was if I was sitting next

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Speaker 1: to the owner of the finest mule in America, I

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Speaker 1: would have a hundred questions.

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Speaker 2: For Hey, father of the American mule? Who is it?

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Speaker 1: George wah nice? Hey, come on dude, all right, who

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Speaker 1: are you talking?

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Speaker 2: Too easy? Sorry?

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Speaker 1: It's like who invented crossfild?

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Speaker 2: All right? All right? Great?

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Speaker 6: Are already said? Is motivation? And that would have been

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Speaker 6: my question?

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Speaker 2: Motivation the motivator?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know the coolest part two is you know

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Speaker 4: my kids. So you guys have seen my kids are

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Speaker 4: around all the time, birds.

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Speaker 2: Kids are out here.

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Speaker 4: Well, but I want to impact, Like you know, I've

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Speaker 4: never once told my kids, hey, let's go do a workout,

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Speaker 4: but they see me and Lakeland will go down there.

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Speaker 2: All of my kids will be like, hey, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: work out with you, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, and they're doing their own thing. We're not loading

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Speaker 4: them up with a barbell. We're not like making them

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Speaker 4: do anything, but they want to do it. So then

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Speaker 4: you like, I'm doing a workout and I just look

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Speaker 4: over and they're doing it right. Well, then the hunting

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Speaker 4: now too, Like I've been out six or seven times

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Speaker 4: and my kids have been with me five of the times.

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Speaker 2: The Trice was with me when we harvested a dough.

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Speaker 4: The other other afternoon morning and he was fired up,

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Speaker 4: and my you know, like it's awesome.

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Speaker 2: It's there.

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Speaker 4: They want to be with me, and that's what I want, right,

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Speaker 4: So I want to impact them from the physical side

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Speaker 4: of like, hey want them to be in better shape

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Speaker 4: and and just you know, a lifestyle of fitness. But

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Speaker 4: then also the outdoors, like it's it's just in a

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Speaker 4: good spot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think to your to your question.

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Speaker 5: We talked about a little bit yesterday, But there's workout

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Speaker 5: programs out there for getting outside and everything. But man,

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Speaker 5: and I've I've I've been fortunate to work out a

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Speaker 5: decent amount of my life.

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Speaker 1: But oh really, I never would have guessed.

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Speaker 2: They thank you, but they break out.

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Speaker 5: They breaks me right, Like I I love, I get started,

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Speaker 5: I find myself getting started, and then three weeks in

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Speaker 5: like it is a lifestyle that and maybe I'm just

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Speaker 5: not tough enough. I just like can't continue. My body

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Speaker 5: is breaking down and old thirty three.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, ex accurate.

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Speaker 5: I'm just kidding, But I think, like I think my

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Speaker 5: my my question is is like, if you're not a

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Speaker 5: dude that's already just getting it, Like, how much is

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Speaker 5: too much?

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Speaker 2: Right? Like?

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Speaker 5: What what is the proper level of training if a

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Speaker 5: guy's coming out west on his first el cunt? Like,

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Speaker 5: is it just seven days a week to like to

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Speaker 5: failure every and that's the mentality should have?

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Speaker 2: Or is there a middle ground to get you out

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Speaker 2: in the feet? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: And so I feel like that's something that we have

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Speaker 4: or we've kind of like, you know, we've got the

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Speaker 4: background of we have the CrossFit gym that we've had

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Speaker 4: for fifteen years, and you know, we've got our youngest

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Speaker 4: member we talked yesterday's five years old and our oldest

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Speaker 4: is eighty three or eighty four years old. So like

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Speaker 4: we have the full range, and so we've been able

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Speaker 4: to see, hey, you know, what can some people do,

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Speaker 4: and like you're at a very entry level and we've

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Speaker 4: kind of on what we're doing now is like putting

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Speaker 4: a little bit of science behind that instead of just

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Speaker 4: hammering guys all the time, which you still need to do, right,

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Speaker 4: You've still got to like prepare because there is a

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Speaker 4: mental aspect of it. Anybody who's been out west, like,

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Speaker 4: you've got to be able to grind because there are

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Speaker 4: you know, those days where it's up down physically but

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Speaker 4: also mentally and emotionally, and so you've got to have

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Speaker 4: those days. But then also like we know that four

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Speaker 4: or five weeks is about as hard as you can push,

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Speaker 4: and then you maybe need to take a week where

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Speaker 4: you just kind of, hey, like let's move still. You know,

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Speaker 4: starting out maybe three or four days a week, and

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Speaker 4: then you know you could bump it up. I we

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Speaker 4: were talking yesterday. I like to work out seven days

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Speaker 4: a week. It's my mentality. It's almost like it's something

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Speaker 4: I have to do right, It's just clear my head.

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Speaker 2: It's got to get that hit, whatever it is.

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Speaker 4: But for most guys, starting out three days a week,

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Speaker 4: it's gonna be a lot, you know, And so you

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Speaker 4: can once you do a couple weeks of that, maybe

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Speaker 4: add a fourth day.

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Speaker 2: Hey, four days too many?

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Speaker 4: Like there is And that's one of the things we're

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Speaker 4: trying to do is like, hey, we're gonna build a

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Speaker 4: community where guys can get on there, girls can get

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Speaker 4: on there and talk and feel like, hey, you know, hey,

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Speaker 4: this is what I'm doing. I'm feeling like this, you know,

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Speaker 4: any help there. So that's that's what we're trying to do,

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Speaker 4: is take the kind of approach we've done with CrossFit,

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Speaker 4: of like, hey, we know our program is the best,

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Speaker 4: but also the community side of like hey, let's let's

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Speaker 4: you know, ask some questions and do some stuff like

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Speaker 4: that too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And the Thursdays for us is usually a off

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Speaker 2: ish day, so Thursdays and Sundays. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So, And to answer the question, as a normal average

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Speaker 3: forty three year old guy work like working out with him,

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Speaker 3: I know he works out two days a week. I

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Speaker 3: can usually two times, two times a day. I can

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Speaker 3: go Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday usually and work out with him.

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Speaker 3: But by Thursday I'm probably just taking off completely just

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Speaker 3: because I mean, I can't do it anymore. You know,

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Speaker 3: like my body's worn down, I need to day. I

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Speaker 3: need just to arrest day completely. So it is listened

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Speaker 3: to your body. And but we do take Thursdays, Saturdays

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Speaker 3: and as like active recovery, and then Sundays is usually

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Speaker 3: just completely off. So we have that broken in there

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Speaker 3: pretty good.

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Speaker 7: All right, I gotta cool. I got a question.

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Speaker 3: So I'm thinking of a football question for you about

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Speaker 3: tonight coach.

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Speaker 2: On first down, they'll never expect it.

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Speaker 7: So trying to like maybe compare it to hunting. So

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Speaker 7: if you got somebody that's never hunted and they've got

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Speaker 7: aspirations to be a big game hunter, you kind of

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Speaker 7: figure out a path that they'll start smoking with it.

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Speaker 7: So I'll say the same thing with getting fitter, a

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Speaker 7: better version of you. What what's that first step look like?

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Speaker 4: Doing something? Doing anything like moving three four days a week.

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Speaker 4: You know, I when you know, when I was early

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Speaker 4: on in CrossFit, I was like, you have to do CrossFit.

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Speaker 4: The only way to get fitter is doing CrossFit. I'm

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Speaker 4: not that mentality anymore. Like I think CrossFit or some

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Speaker 4: variation like ours isn't is a little bit of CrossFit.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot less gymnastics, a lot more grunt work,

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Speaker 4: a little bit less super high intensity all the time,

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Speaker 4: because that does wear you out.

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Speaker 2: But man, it's just getting started.

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Speaker 4: Doing something is better than nothing. And then you know,

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Speaker 4: like to start this momentum. And it's day after day

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Speaker 4: and you know, I my personal kind of values are faith, family, fitness, right,

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Speaker 4: and so every day I try to sit down at

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Speaker 4: the end of the day and be as objective as possible.

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Speaker 2: How did I do faith? Wise? Did I get in

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Speaker 2: the word? Whatever?

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Speaker 4: Did I do good? And and try to give myself,

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Speaker 4: you know, one through ten? Same with family? Did I

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Speaker 4: spend time? Quality time?

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Speaker 2: And then fit?

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Speaker 4: And then short memory when you do good because next

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Speaker 4: day it's a new day. And short memory when you

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Speaker 4: do bad as well, because then you got to just like, hey,

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Speaker 4: we got to reset today.

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Speaker 2: It's fitness.

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Speaker 4: All that stuff is like it just compounds, right, and

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Speaker 4: so it's all about momentum and just get do something right. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: twenty minute walk, you know, do that a couple of

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Speaker 4: days a week, add thirty minutes or add a little

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Speaker 4: bit of wait, whatever you want to do.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think I think a lot of times

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Speaker 1: people are including me, are intimidated by guys that are

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Speaker 1: really good, that are kind of the leaders in this space, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's like we're not having we're not having,

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Speaker 1: you know, somebody that's not good at this, like being

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Speaker 1: the spokesman for fitness. That's always somebody like you and

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Speaker 1: and sometimes it's hard to be like, well, I can't

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Speaker 1: be a professional or I can't and what you I

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Speaker 1: appreciate what you said because I mean that's kind of

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Speaker 1: the way that I've I think about fitness. I don't

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Speaker 1: talk about fitness, right, but it's like something that's how

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Speaker 1: my mind is to is to just do something, you know,

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Speaker 1: and and I do some running, do some in the

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Speaker 1: last two years, have done some.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked yesterday.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty pretty disciplined, you know, three four times

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Speaker 1: a week at a gym doing Staremaster. Just because I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm forty five and a man. I feel my body

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Speaker 1: just kind of.

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Speaker 2: Like the strength, the strength was starting to fall off.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and uh, like just doing something is better

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Speaker 1: than nothing.

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Speaker 2: I can tell you that.

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Speaker 5: The frustrating thing with running with Clays, He's one of

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Speaker 5: those guys. At half a mile in he goes, God,

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Speaker 5: I'm tired, and You're like oh, you're tired. Good and

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Speaker 5: you're like and so you're like, okay, I'm kind of

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Speaker 5: tired to you. And then a mile and he's like, oh,

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Speaker 5: I'm tired. Then like three miles in he's like, oh,

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Speaker 5: I'm tired. You're like, when are you gonna side? It

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Speaker 5: just keeps grinding. He him and Giannis they burned me

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Speaker 5: one day on the mountain. We were we went for

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Speaker 5: a little run before I go to market meeting and

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Speaker 5: I hung with him for like it was a lot

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Speaker 5: for me. It was a long run. It was a

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Speaker 5: ten mile run. I think I hung with him for

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Speaker 5: like eight and the final how I'm like, I gotta

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Speaker 5: go to the bathroom. I'm sorry, I got my shoes.

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Speaker 5: I gotta do something.

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Speaker 1: I gotta Yeah, Hey, I want to let's talk about

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Speaker 1: football for a moment now, Coach Hunter, Coach you you

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Speaker 1: went to the University of Tennessee and what and what

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Speaker 1: did you study there?

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Speaker 2: Art? Art?

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Speaker 1: But you're from Virginia correct, But you're big balls man,

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Speaker 1: big time.

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Speaker 7: And your wife I suffered through yeah, and my wife

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Speaker 7: went here for veterinary Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, what's it what's it like, what's it

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Speaker 1: like to be wearing the Orange.

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Speaker 7: Oh it's good, especially on a day like today. I

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Speaker 7: mean it's just third Saturday in October. That's get any bigger.

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Speaker 7: So we just need we need a Saturday like we

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Speaker 7: had in twenty two.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so what what will they do if they

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Speaker 1: beat Alabama today? Like I've heard it said twice.

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Speaker 7: Now, the gold post will come down? You think in

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Speaker 7: the water it could be.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that we're right here on the tennis.

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Speaker 7: Because we got the playoffs sort of lost win this.

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Speaker 7: If we win this, still got to play Georgia. We

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Speaker 7: still got to play Georgia. But if you can go

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Speaker 7: ten and two, you've got an sec guy right here.

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Speaker 7: Of course too, you've got a good shot. Give you

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Speaker 7: that making it we How late is the Georgia Get

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Speaker 7: over at his shirt right now? We lost? We got

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Speaker 7: one of those losses there, so we were hoping it

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Speaker 7: would just be Alabama and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: How late is the Georgia game.

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Speaker 4: That's the hard part too, is you've got to time

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Speaker 4: your losses correctly, you know, like I think.

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Speaker 7: It's a night is it? Is it a night game

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Speaker 7: today or is it the same time?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, like, when do you guys play Georgia.

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Speaker 7: Oh it's at Georgia. I think it's a day game

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Speaker 7: at Georgia.

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Speaker 2: Win the season.

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Speaker 7: Sorry, we've got to buy next week. I think Kentucky,

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Speaker 7: then I think Georgia.

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Speaker 2: That's enough.

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Speaker 1: What I thought was cool is that if they you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes when they win, this is a huge wear down

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Speaker 1: the goalpost. Bring it to the Tennessee River. Throw the

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Speaker 1: kid there, Bandy.

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Speaker 2: That would be the second time because Bandy.

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Speaker 4: Did it to two weeks ago, Bandy beat Bama and

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Speaker 4: they carried it to the Cumberland.

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Speaker 1: Which is a much further that much. I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about crappie structure down on the bottom.

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Speaker 7: And we've got a hundred and two thousand. Yeah, when

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Speaker 7: they stand like fifty tops, so they covered like half

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Speaker 7: of the field when they started.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, that's great, Brent. What kind of shirt

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Speaker 1: you were in there? Oh well, this is what were

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Speaker 1: you doing two weeks ago?

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Speaker 2: Two weeks ago I was celebrating. Were you at the game?

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Speaker 2: I was not? Do you know who they're playing today?

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Speaker 2: They're playing you gotta know you were over here? Really?

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, communists, but welcome, he's French.

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Speaker 2: That's literally French there, yeh w I'm sorry. I was

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Speaker 2: so good. We're glad you're here.

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Speaker 6: I get one opportunity every now and then a blind

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Speaker 6: hole literally finds out literally, and that's that's what we season.

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Speaker 7: I'd send him text all the time. When Tennessee was winning,

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Speaker 7: I get everything sarcastic back. So as soon as we

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Speaker 7: lost Arkansas.

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Speaker 2: I just I just almost wore.

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Speaker 4: I almost wore my Notre Dame baseball jersey here just

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Speaker 4: for but I didn't.

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Speaker 2: I didn't. This was the last time we were here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we were rich. But you're not a Tennessee fan.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm a Notre Dame fan. My grandpa went to

440
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 2: Notre Dame.

441
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 4: My family's Catholic and Irish, so I've been stuck with

442
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,480
Speaker 4: Notre Dame my whole life.

443
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 2: Yeah it's been rough, you know.

444
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:43,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

445
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 4: No, I mean I tried to get behind Tennessee when

446
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 4: they were bad for a while because I could tolerate

447
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 4: the fans, and then as soon as they started winning again,

448
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,760
Speaker 4: I was like, man, he was just obnoxious, you know.

449
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 2: Like that's like, you know, I went hard.

450
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm a I'm a Notre Dame in a

451
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,240
Speaker 4: Detroit sports fan, So don't talk to me about hard time. Yeah,

452
00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:06,880
Speaker 4: thirty seven years of hard times.

453
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:07,400
Speaker 2: Rich you got.

454
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:09,120
Speaker 7: Here.

455
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:10,440
Speaker 2: That's true, that's true, that's true.

456
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 1: You know the good thing about being from Arkansas, and

457
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: this is true. We have no professional sports teams. We

458
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 1: have one bigger uh Division one school. There are other

459
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 1: Division one schools, but without a doubt, everybody in Arkansas

460
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: is rooting for the Razorbacks. Like when I think about Alabama,

461
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: haven't having a divided a divided state. Uh, It's it's

462
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 1: kind of weird to me to think that you would

463
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,199
Speaker 1: have that kind of vitriol against like people in your

464
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: own state, you know, like Alabama and Auburn and all this.

465
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 1: But in Arkansas, man, that's.

466
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 7: All we got when we beat John Daily and golf

467
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 7: for a long time, we did.

468
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 1: We had him for a.

469
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,719
Speaker 2: While, still got him. I mean he's still there.

470
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:57,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but not so as you all know, we

471
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,880
Speaker 1: usually on the render and we'll day we uh we

472
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 1: talk about the last podcast that came out. Anybody has

473
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 1: anybody else got anything else they want to say? Before

474
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:13,960
Speaker 1: we talk about that cash shirt?

475
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 2: It's hot. Keep that there's no.

476
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 1: Keep that down.

477
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 2: Now.

478
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: This I told I told Hunter had been cool. If

479
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: we were at like Florida State. And then we were

480
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 1: talking about this, this series I've been I've been working

481
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 1: on it for a long time. I think I read

482
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: the first book about Oola like a year and a

483
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 1: half ago, and it Sometimes these series, people ask me

484
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: a lot of times, like how long do you work

485
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 1: on a series? And they're all different. Sometimes they come

486
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: together real quick, but then other times they're like long

487
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: and drawn out. This one was long and drawn out,

488
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 1: and it took us that long to find the right

489
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 1: people to tell the story. And and sometimes I'll start

490
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 1: a series that ends with me, well, in my mind,

491
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 1: a potential series, and I never do it because I

492
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: never find the right people. And I actually thought that

493
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 1: might be what happened with ostiolas I did, I did,

494
00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 1: and and even uh, there's gonna be a new guest later.

495
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:18,479
Speaker 2: Uh.

496
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 1: We talked to one of the Florida seminoles, and then

497
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 1: I had known Sterling Harjoe for a while and so

498
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: I knew he was gonna be great. But he's not

499
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: a historian's he's a seminole and just kind of knows,

500
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 1: you know. I was really interested in how he would

501
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,439
Speaker 1: have viewed Ostiola. And then we found Jake Tiger this

502
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 1: young young guy in Oklahoma, which was a great help.

503
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: But Patricia Wickman, she's retired and was like Josh Spilmmaker,

504
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: helped me a lot on this one. She was very

505
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: difficult to find. She's not she's not in.

506
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,439
Speaker 4: The Yeah she correct an person.

507
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, man. She totally is like she she she.

508
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 4: Reprimanded you, like twice. She was put your drink on

509
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 4: the coaster. I was like, all right, mom. I felt

510
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 4: like it hit me hard, you know.

511
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, well, I was the only reason

512
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: I could share that with the world. That section was

513
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: because of how wonderful lady she was. She she was

514
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 1: so excited that that I was there. But I really

515
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 1: appreciate that kind of frank, don't do that.

516
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 3: Don't do that, no problem, it's man, yeah, take your

517
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 3: shoes off at the door.

518
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: I said it. I said it, and I meant it.

519
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: I interview a ton of people, and of all different

520
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 1: types of people, she was, and I'll go ahead and

521
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 1: say it, the most passionate, knowledgeable and able to communicate

522
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 1: about her sphere of expertise than anybody I've ever dolt.

523
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,360
Speaker 1: And she's she's been retired for years. I don't want

524
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: to say how old she is, but well I better

525
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: not do that. She's retired. So but I mean just

526
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: sharpest attack, and and I'm still a little bit nervous

527
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: about like how I did, Like we kind of had

528
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: to convince her that we were going to handle this

529
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,360
Speaker 1: story with hair and she was very concerned about us

530
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: getting it right, you know. And so but she was

531
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: a wonderful, wonderful lady. And we'll be hearing from her

532
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: on the lat in the next two episodes. I'll go

533
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: ahead and foreshadow a bit. So this the second podcast

534
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: is basically going to be about the war years of Osceola,

535
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: when he actually retreated into Florida and all the stuff

536
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: they did was just wild. The the third episode is

537
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: gonna be about I usually don't do this, Rich doing

538
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 1: this for you for me because you're the world's fittest athlete.

539
00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 1: For formally, uh, We're gonna do a whole podcast on

540
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 1: Ossio's death, Yeah, because.

541
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 4: Like the what the aftermath and or just the was

542
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 4: all kinds of like conspiracy behind it or.

543
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 1: Let me just I want to give give spiel like

544
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: I did you yesterday at dinner, give him a little bit,

545
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: just a little bit Ostiola was he went, he ended

546
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: up going to prison. He was tricked by the American

547
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: government and captured and went to prison. While he was

548
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: in prison, WHI, no, we can't go down mouse yet. Uh.

549
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: He was. He was in prison in South Carolina and

550
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 1: they took him to a play in Charleston, like a

551
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: like a like a Broadway play. And when he went

552
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: into the play, he was view he's a prisoner of

553
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: they they took him in into the play, no, to

554
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: watch the play, and when he was there, they applauded him.

555
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 1: This is Ossio, the great King, you know, the great

556
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: war leader of the Seminoles were actively in war. It

557
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: would be like us taken, you know, in the nineties,

558
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 1: taking Saddam Hussein and out of prison to go watch

559
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: a Broadway play in the American public going we love

560
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: this guy. Really yeah, so weird because he was a

561
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: he was a global you had global fame. And and

562
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: that to me points back to what I tried to

563
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: paint a picture of is how the American public viewed

564
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 1: these Native American leaders, which is such.

565
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: A weird philosopher, weird money.

566
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 1: We needed to get rid of them, take their land,

567
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: do whatever it took to displace them. But we we like,

568
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: you know, handle it. We treated him like like comic

569
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: book characters, you know, like mythical creatures, and which is

570
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: so wild. And then maybe that's all I should give.

571
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: But he ends up dying in prison, and and to

572
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: this day there is still an ongoing search for Osciola's head.

573
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: That's all I'm gonna say.

574
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 7: You're talking about the portraits to the artists that would

575
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:10,159
Speaker 7: stack up.

576
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I kind of mentioned it. Yeah, when he

577
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: was in prison, you know, the the the currency of

578
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: the day for people to engage, you know, visually, they

579
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 1: didn't have photographer, theyd have video, but people painted portraits

580
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: like it was big time. You would have portraits painted

581
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: of your family and your grandfathers, and that's all they had.

582
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 1: And I mean yeah, the greatest artists in the country

583
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: flocked to South Carolina to that prison to paint Osciola.

584
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: In the last days of his life, he spent modeling.

585
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: He would put on his best clothes and all his

586
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 1: accouterments and all he had all kind of little things

587
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: that he wore, big ostrich plume and uh and he

588
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: literally George Catlan finished that most famous painting that I

589
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: put on Instagram two days before Osceola died in prison.

590
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 5: Really yeah, and that type of behavior, it's just it

591
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 5: seems like they knew they were a part of a

592
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 5: like a big part of history in the moment. I

593
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 5: think sometimes we don't do that right now, but like

594
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,719
Speaker 5: to take him and be detached enough to take him

595
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 5: to a play to show off to everybody is saying like,

596
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 5: this guy is going to be living infamy forever, right,

597
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 5: He's a part of our history. And it's still he's

598
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 5: still alive, it's still happening. And then he got all

599
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 5: those painters that are like, this is happening now. I

600
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 5: think we lose sight of that a little bit right now, right, Yeah,

601
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 5: it's just super interesting.

602
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, and he was only thirty four years old, and

603
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 6: he didn't look sick in that picture either, and then

604
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 6: he died.

605
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 2: I noticed that, right though. Yeah it was a painting.

606
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 2: It wasn't, you know, make me look good. It made

607
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 2: me look good.

608
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: So so what I'll I think, what the way we'll

609
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: we'll talk about this is, uh, I just kind of

610
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: go around and just tell me what stood out to you,

611
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: like just what was interesting or or maybe why you

612
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: didn't know or how much you knew about Osceola before

613
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: or talk about my guests. You know Sterling Harjoe. Would

614
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: would you have known who Sterling Harjoe was? Okay, I didn't.

615
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: I didn't really give him a proper introduction. Sterling Harjoe

616
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: is a is A is a filmmaker. He just was

617
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: nominated for is it an Emmy?

618
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 2: Like?

619
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: He's a he is a up and coming he just

620
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: got a big time award in the in the It

621
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: wasn't an Emmy. Yeah, he's a cool guy, so he

622
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: he was, Uh, but it was cool hearing him. But anyway, Hunter,

623
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: what stood out to you?

624
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 7: I mean, I'd probably say getting pushed out of Alabama

625
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 7: during the Muskogee uh Creek era and and and just

626
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 7: what was going through their minds and in the establishment

627
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 7: and how things were set up, what to Kompsa's influence

628
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 7: and things like that.

629
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: Wasn't that cool?

630
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 7: Yeah? You know you kind of wish you knew somehow,

631
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 7: like did these paths cross?

632
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 5: Yeah?

633
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, you have no way of I guess

634
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 7: really knowing. But now and again the short timeline. He

635
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,959
Speaker 7: died at thirty four, he goes there at ten, So

636
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 7: you're looking at a very small window of what brought

637
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 7: him to popularity.

638
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: Well, I think what isn't really even debatable is that

639
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: his family was heavily influenced by Takumsa. They would have

640
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: been in his presence and heard to comes to speak. Yeah,

641
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: and then these are the people that went and raised Osil,

642
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: you know. So like whether he would have even seen Osill,

643
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: I mean, he would have been like if he was

644
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: born in eighteen oh four, which they really don't even

645
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: know for sure if that's when he was born. But

646
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: if he was born in eighteen oh four to come

647
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: to for sure came in eighteen eleven, so he would

648
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: have been like seven years old, is that right, Yeah,

649
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 1: seven years old. He would have just been a du Yeah.

650
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. He might have squirrels, you know.

651
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. He would have known something happened was happening.

652
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: That was cool, Yeah, but he wouldn't have been paying attention.

653
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: Brains not processing in that at that situe.

654
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: Well nowadays, but that uh, I almost had my wife

655
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: as a little insert guest, but it was a little

656
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: too deep of a rabbit hole. Misty. She studies a

657
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: lot about human development and child development, and there was

658
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 1: this big research project that just came out that highlighted

659
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: the ages of nine to thirteen as the most important

660
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: years for long term identity. And what they did was

661
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: they there was a study about Japanese kids, and they

662
00:32:55,240 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: raised people that had Japanese parents in America until the

663
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: age of nine, and then their family moved back to Japan,

664
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 1: and those kids, as they grew up, viewed themselves as Japanese. Okay,

665
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: the other set of the of the of the test,

666
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: the test was there were the family kids that were

667
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: raised in Japan from the age of zero to nine

668
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,080
Speaker 1: and then they moved to America from the ages of

669
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 1: nine to thirteen, and those kids viewed themselves as Americans.

670
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: Do you see because like kids are now, you know,

671
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 1: like yeah, like law, they right now are just trying

672
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: to figure who am I? You know, They're just like

673
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:51,239
Speaker 1: shut shut. So my wife told me about that, and

674
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: I was going to have her on to tell that story.

675
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: But it was super fascinating because you wouldn't think that

676
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: would You would think the kids that were born in

677
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: Japan and lived there till there were nine would be

678
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: considered themselves Japanese for the rest of their life. But

679
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: it was it was actually opposite of that because that

680
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 1: so so Osceola would have been.

681
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, that he too.

682
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: He was in the fire years of their family, implementing

683
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: that Nativist revival of like we got to get rid

684
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: of all this European influence. But all that stuff is

685
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 1: so fascinating and I love it when we bring in

686
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: back up a Bear Grease Hall of Famer. So rich

687
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 1: we have a we have a legitimate bear Grease Hall

688
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: of Fame. We're actually we haven't. We haven't done a

689
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame induction in two years. Who were about

690
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: to start the last one would have been, Uh, that's

691
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 1: a good question. The Halt Caller. Yeah, I think guy

692
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 1: named Halt Collier from Mississippi. The Beargreas Hall of Fame

693
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: is interesting that some living guys that are still alive

694
00:34:54,840 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: today and then some historical characters like Daniel Boone Halt Callier. Uh,

695
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,879
Speaker 1: Tacumsa is a bear Grease Hall of Famer, but it's

696
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: also uh speaking of Tennessee, my dear dear friend Roy

697
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: Clark in East Tennessee Laurel Mountain plots, he's he's still

698
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: my daughter hunted with them last week. But uh, anyway,

699
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: we're about to the next time we get the regular

700
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: render crew together. We're actually going to do a new

701
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: Bear Grease induction. We're gonna have a you have.

702
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 2: A vote on the show where you just say, hey,

703
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: we're doing we have it, we have it.

704
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: Well, I call it's very formal, very formal, and I

705
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: called to you know, I put the nominations on the

706
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 1: table and then then we vote. But it's kind of

707
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: got to be the people that are regularly because you know,

708
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: I don't know where Josh stands on some of this stuff.

709
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: Losing you know, we can't have him, and then.

710
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 2: You pick your jury.

711
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 4: All of course, we always we always say it, ma'ham

712
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 4: at state run media, we can.

713
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: Put out whatever we want.

714
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, nor Frank exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So we are going

715
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: to have a new induction at some point in the

716
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: next two months, so be ready for that. Okay, uh, Josh,

717
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,399
Speaker 1: what's what's that to you? Man?

718
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 3: Something we talked about and it's super unfortunate, but just

719
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 3: for one that their history is not necessarily written, right,

720
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 3: it's it's spoken. So for one, you don't know, stories

721
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 3: get twisted tradition, you know, And what's super unfortunate about

722
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 3: it is all history that is written. You usually have

723
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 3: a winner side and a loser side. Right, there's two

724
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 3: different I'm glad I went first. We've talked about a lot,

725
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 3: but there's two different sides of it, and that perspective

726
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 3: is always going to be different. So for really just

727
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 3: all Native Americans, we we have the story is that

728
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 3: we don't know if it's one hundred percent accurate, and

729
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 3: then we have this other side, which is a totally

730
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 3: different perspective, you know. So just to hear this and

731
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 3: then she was an expert on it, and just to

732
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 3: hear you know, just yeah, it was really cool to

733
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 3: hear that, because you don't know. You hear things and

734
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 3: you say, well, you see that, but then you you

735
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,239
Speaker 3: read something else. So uh, it was super cool just

736
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:23,920
Speaker 3: to kind of hear that side of it.

737
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 2: Man.

738
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: The analogy that we use to describe, you know, I

739
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: thought it was pretty pretty powerful, and and I use

740
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: that analogy on myself. I mean, I'm the one who

741
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 1: said it, but I was thinking about it, like what

742
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 1: if somebody from another place did not speak my language,

743
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: just observed my life for however long, and then they

744
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: were the ones that wrote the history books about me

745
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: and told about my motivations and what I did. But

746
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: then they also wanted my land.

747
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 2: It's called social media.

748
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean it's just like how accurate

749
00:37:59,080 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: could it be?

750
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 7: Well to that? To double down on Josh's point, it's

751
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 7: like as you were saying, you got the Florida seminoles

752
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 7: have one thought in view versus say the ones in Oklahoma, Yeah,

753
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 7: saying completely different things. So not only is it already

754
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 7: not written, but you've got fractions of that.

755
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 4: Even in the written stuff, you got fractions because you

756
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 4: have a use today's perspectives. You have a right and

757
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 4: a left, and so like if you read one side,

758
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 4: it's so tough. Yeah, and so think about adding two

759
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 4: hundred years to that. Like when they read about what's

760
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 4: going on now, you know, like who are they reading?

761
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah, That's what I like to do on

762
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: these is just there's no answer, but just it like

763
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 1: makes you makes you think about it from just a

764
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 1: different perspective. You know, you're just a little more empathetic

765
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: towards people, you know when you because I think one

766
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: thing that that's what interests me is looking at a

767
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: story that from one person spective to another could be

768
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: completely different, and both side says a story are right, yep,

769
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 1: Like there you know, are are good people have the

770
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 1: right motivation, but like, the perspective on the story completely

771
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: changes the way you see it. So it's like I'm

772
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: sitting here from this chair as an Arkansas Razorback fan

773
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: and uh and knowing that I'm right, knowing that my

774
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 1: team's the best team, but it's possible that somebody could

775
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: have a different view that would be equal to mine.

776
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: It's really weird to me, but and more correct, what

777
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:41,919
Speaker 1: rich what stood out to you?

778
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 7: Man?

779
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 4: I've got so I'm we were talking yesterday. I've I've

780
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 4: got a weird not a weird, but I have an

781
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 4: American history obsession. So I started reading the O'Reilly killing

782
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 4: books and one of them is killing Crazy Horse, And

783
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 4: so it goes through it does it's not just about

784
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 4: kill a crazy horse, because he's kind of towards the

785
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,399
Speaker 4: end of what we'll say, at the eradication of Native

786
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,360
Speaker 4: Americans throughout the country. So but it goes you know,

787
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 4: geographical section bisection and I'm sure and I don't remember

788
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 4: because it's been a while since I read about Osciola

789
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 4: was in there, I'm sure. And so you have that perspective, right,

790
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 4: And so it paints Andrew Jackson is this villain, right?

791
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 2: You know, he was this terrible, awful human being.

792
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 4: Well, then now I have this through reading those books,

793
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 4: I have this, all right, I'm gonna read a biography

794
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 4: on every US president and so when I get to Jackson,

795
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 4: I have this kind of like bad taste. And I

796
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 4: read that book and I'm like, from his perspective, and

797
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 4: I'm just putting this as me putting my viewpoint on

798
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 4: from reading the book, God, Family Country, and I'm like,

799
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:41,439
Speaker 4: that aligns with my views.

800
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 2: You know, did he do it right?

801
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 4: Absolutely not. But it's it goes back to that perspective

802
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 4: of like who's telling the story right? And and you know,

803
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 4: you look at today, right, and we have this crazy

804
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 4: election coming up. We won't get political, but it's like

805
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 4: there's two sides to every story, and there's bits on

806
00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,959
Speaker 4: both sides that are right, and there's bits on both

807
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 4: eyes that are wrong. Yeah, and so man, it is

808
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 4: so when we're you know, you're listening to her, You're like, yeah,

809
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 4: this is you know, like I'm behind this. And then

810
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 4: I step back and I read from Andrew. Now it

811
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 4: wasn't even Andrew Jackson's perspective. It was a third party.

812
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 4: But you're just like.

813
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 2: That's I believe in a lot of those.

814
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 4: So it's so hard to then one hundred two hundred

815
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 4: years ago have that different and so it's just so hard, right,

816
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 4: you know, you just come off Columbus Day and everybody's

817
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 4: politics on that and you're just like, hey, history is rough,

818
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 4: you know, and in both sides there's bad and there's.

819
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 7: Good, right, and it's and it places that importance on

820
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 7: like who's telling this story telling the story because like

821
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 7: doctor Wickman, you know, her passion behind it kind of

822
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 7: sort of came yeah, exactly. So whether it's Ossiola or

823
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 7: somebody else, it's when you get that passionate storyteller behind

824
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 7: it starts to skew you.

825
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 2: That's why history is so important.

826
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 4: You know, there was whole cancel every history everywhere, and

827
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 4: you're like, nah, man, we need to like we need

828
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 4: to have some perspective, not believe everything we read obviously, like,

829
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,800
Speaker 4: but it's just it's it's history is important.

830
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a This will be on one of the

831
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 1: next episodes. But I had an interesting little section of

832
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: conversation with Sterling Harjoe, who is a Seminole creek in Oklahoma,

833
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: and basically he started talking about the conflicted position that

834
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: he has. He's like, man, I love America. I mean,

835
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 1: he he's the he's more American than me. He's like,

836
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: he loves America. But he's like, but it's kind of

837
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 1: weird because America literally tried to kill every member of

838
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: my all my ancestors, like wanted them dead.

839
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 2: In different ways too, you know.

840
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: And and and so he's like, and here we are

841
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: in schools like pledge and allegiance to the flag. And

842
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: he's like, I was, it's always kind of weird to me.

843
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 1: But he had such a what when you hear it,

844
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 1: it's real interesting because he's not he is not he's

845
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:11,439
Speaker 1: not embittered or anything. He yeah, but it's still very real.

846
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 1: I mean even today inside the tribes, I mean sometimes

847
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: it's like, man, that stuff happened so long ago. That's

848
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:17,959
Speaker 1: a long time ago.

849
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 2: Man.

850
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: The tribes in Oklahoma are well, it's not even it's

851
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: not even they're not even looking back on fresh stuff

852
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: or you know, the old stuff they're looking back on.

853
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: And I certainly don't speak for them, but just today

854
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: struggles with their sovereignty, like because it's a real weird situation,

855
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 1: unique situation in Oklahoma, where there's I don't know how

856
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: many different sovereign nations there are in Oklahoma. Are you're

857
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: driving to Oklahoma, you're driving into a different country.

858
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 4: Aren't they trying to sue for some land too? There

859
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 4: was something going on.

860
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: There's a lot always going on over there.

861
00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:00,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it shows man, Uh Like it depends

862
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 5: on how far back in history you look. Like his

863
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,359
Speaker 5: sentiment about pledging allegiance to the flag, then like, let's

864
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 5: take into consideration why all of us are here right

865
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 5: now and making the jump across the pond, and what

866
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 5: was going on over there, and we were trying to

867
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 5: get away from people doing to us what we ended

868
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 5: up doing to other people. And it's just like you

869
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 5: can keep doing that all the way back to the

870
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 5: first couple of hundred people that were here, right, And

871
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 5: it's just there's always somebody trying to take what they

872
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 5: don't have, and there's always somebody giving it up.

873
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 2: But that's just the way that history works, right, It

874
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 2: just keeps rolling. Yeah.

875
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,240
Speaker 5: It doesn't make it good, No, it doesn't make it better,

876
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 5: It doesn't make it easier, but it's important.

877
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 2: It is a reality of history.

878
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, Brent's out to you.

879
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: I liked it.

880
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 6: You know, forever in history books and movies or whatever,

881
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 6: Native Americans were portrayed as savages, and that's what they

882
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 6: were referred to as.

883
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 2: That they had enough.

884
00:44:55,520 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 6: Sense and enough self awareness to know that they could

885
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 6: just settle dispute on the battlefield, or they could settle

886
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 6: dispute on the ball field. And they and they played

887
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 6: that game, and then there may have been some folks

888
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 6: that died in it, which is unfortunate. But I mean,

889
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 6: I mean, that's really taking one for the team, lit literally,

890
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 6: but they're they're setting settling disputes like that back then,

891
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 6: instead of wiping out whole communities, they settled it there.

892
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 2: And if we're going.

893
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 6: By that, that creed that example that they that they did,

894
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 6: I guess we now own Tennessee.

895
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 2: This is now Arkansas. I was watching how I Am

896
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 2: the Captain? Look at me? So when lu wins today,

897
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 2: then that we.

898
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 6: But that was that was really interesting to me, that

899
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 6: that was that far back that they had enough foresight

900
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 6: to think, you know, we're we're wasting each other. But

901
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 6: if we're going to if we're going to douke it out,

902
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 6: and there's no getting around it, let's let's play this game.

903
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 2: Yeah there was.

904
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: Doctor Wickman talked about that a little bit more that

905
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 1: I just didn't have time to put on there. But

906
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: uh that game was called some of them called it

907
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: the Little Brother of War. That was what they referred

908
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 1: to describe it was. It was almost in these conversations.

909
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 1: I love it because a lot of times there's just

910
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 1: this little little tangent that I didn't see coming. And

911
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: that was one of She wasn't even wanting to talk

912
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 1: about ball She was wanting to talk about how they

913
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 1: didn't have long term cities built like they were nomadic,

914
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: and she was using an example and said, when they

915
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: get when a ballpole gets struck, they'll move then never

916
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: go back. And then I was like, wait a minute,

917
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: what's a ballpole? And then she kind of went into that,

918
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: But uh so I don't actually don't know what it

919
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 1: was or how they I think.

920
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 4: That's important to the story though, because you know, to

921
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 4: his perspective, us saying savages or hearing savages.

922
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 2: When you're growing up or whatever.

923
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 4: You know, it's not as common now, but that's shows

924
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 4: you one way, they weren't savage, So it's almost like it,

925
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 4: you know, it would have been cool you know, I'll

926
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 4: google it. I'm sure we can find it out o somebody.

927
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 4: There's a Wikipedia about it somewhere a bit.

928
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Geatt, what's stood out to you?

929
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 5: And uh, I'd love to give you like some romantic,

930
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 5: nuanced perspective.

931
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 2: I've been thinking about it.

932
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 5: But probably one of my takeaways, Uh, I have been

933
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 5: listening to John Anderson for a long time and had

934
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 5: no idea what that song was talking about or who

935
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 5: he was with Ossiola, Like I've I've I've sang that

936
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 5: part of the song.

937
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 2: You know, heard Ossiola Crome. No, I just you know, never.

938
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,240
Speaker 4: When you said yesterday, hey, listen the podcast for tomorrow,

939
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, cool, it's about the history of

940
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 4: that Turkey or.

941
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 2: All right, learn something that's cool.

942
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just I mean sometimes we're singing songs we

943
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 5: don't know what we're talking about, and I'm from Montana

944
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 5: to we Got Power like two years ago.

945
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 1: Thank you, I have internet.

946
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 3: That's a new release for you. You just heard it.

947
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 5: That's right, Yeah, yeah, that's right.

948
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,879
Speaker 1: Actually right here, right here, come on, come on, come on,

949
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: oh look at that spiral it back. Here's the interesting

950
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 1: behind the scenes. Oftentimes I will well let me go

951
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: back even further. Garrett told me that a lot of

952
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 1: big time Instagram or YouTubers will will think about the

953
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: thumbnail of the YouTube video, maybe even before they make

954
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 1: the make the video. I that song is what made

955
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: me want to do as I just it was such

956
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,320
Speaker 1: powerful imagery. I did know it was a person I

957
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: knew as a seminole leader. That's about all I would

958
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,680
Speaker 1: have known. And I was just like, man if John

959
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: Anderson said the ghost of Ostiola was crying, there's a

960
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: story back.

961
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 5: There, and and Rich just thought that John Anderson was

962
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 5: really in touch with how Turkey's felt.

963
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

964
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: Sure, And so that was the spark point. And I

965
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: kind of envisioned like using that song because I'm really

966
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:38,320
Speaker 1: interested in where some of this, whether it's hunting or

967
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: or in this case, just kind of unique history touches

968
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,840
Speaker 1: mainstream like pop culture. That's interesting to me. And so

969
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: you know that we're still talking about Ostiola. But the

970
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:54,439
Speaker 1: Decompass series I would not have known much about to come,

971
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:58,760
Speaker 1: anything about Tucumps nothing. And I was reading a book

972
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: and it it's set and it talked about this this

973
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 1: Shawnee leader and that his name meant panther crossing the sky.

974
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: And when I when I when I heard what his

975
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: name meant. And on the night to comes was born,

976
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: a comet flashed across the sky. That's that's the lore

977
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: of to Compson's birth. And they called him Panther crossing

978
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: the sky. Well his yeah, his brother, but his brother

979
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:31,399
Speaker 1: was also a major political well he was a more

980
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,719
Speaker 1: of a religious leg yeah, squad. But when I heard

981
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,879
Speaker 1: about Panther crossing the sky, I was like, I'm gonna

982
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: learn about that guy. And then he ends up, you know,

983
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just such a fascinating story of who

984
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,319
Speaker 1: comes to was what did y'all think about, Uh, the

985
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: all the other Bear Grease characters coming into play, Crockett

986
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 1: and then to comes to and then then Boone, what

987
00:50:54,800 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: did y'all think? Well, triggered, he was triggered.

988
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 2: Triggered, you go triggered, it was triggered.

989
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 1: Uh do you think Boone had a Shawnee wife? Do

990
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 1: you remember the series?

991
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 2: Oh?

992
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, zero documentation this much.

993
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 7: I mean, I think she brings a lot of really

994
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:17,439
Speaker 7: good points that it just it wasn't a thing.

995
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 2: She was confident that it was that it happened.

996
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 6: Oh, I know when that when that's when that came up.

997
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 6: I remember this, and you can go back and listen

998
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 6: to that render. Man, you jumped all over me for saying, Man,

999
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 6: that's probably just the way it was back then.

1000
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 2: You're like, no, No, he was a he was a

1001
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,800
Speaker 2: religious man. He wouldn't he wouldn't do that. And I thought, then, man.

1002
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 6: You are a product of your Listen a minute, you

1003
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:43,399
Speaker 6: are a product of your environment. And it very well

1004
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 6: could have been not absolutely not abnormal at all to

1005
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 6: do that, And it could have been a position to

1006
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 6: where he was it not being abnormal, and also it

1007
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 6: could have been something that fit him into that community

1008
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 6: to be it.

1009
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: Let me know what alexis think about your doctrine, because listen.

1010
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 2: That ain't gonna fly, that ain't going to wash well.

1011
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: But listen, listen, this is what I was thinking, and

1012
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 1: and this is I can just tell you this is

1013
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: true if I'm captured by some foreign army and the

1014
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: only way for Clay Newcombe sitting today married to Misty

1015
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,720
Speaker 1: Newcomb with the value system that I have, the kids

1016
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: that I have, the lifestyle that I have, the biblical

1017
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 1: doctrine that I have. No, it's not it's the same.

1018
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,479
Speaker 1: And you say, you got to take this woman or die.

1019
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be like, dude, let's go. I'm out. Just

1020
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:36,439
Speaker 1: I'm out.

1021
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 2: That's today, and I'm the same way change. I understand.

1022
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:46,000
Speaker 2: Oh come on now, it absolutely didn't. It's the same

1023
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 2: today yesterday. I mean, I'm just kidding.

1024
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 1: My point is A is A. I think the point

1025
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: is strong is that like it if his he I'm

1026
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: not saying he had the same belief system is me.

1027
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 2: You have to you have to put yourself. You got

1028
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 2: to tell the story right, that's what you would do exactly.

1029
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: You don't know what Daniel Boone did, but he's the

1030
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 2: same as Daniel Boone.

1031
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: That's that's where I'm getting passionate about defense of Boone's character.

1032
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 1: I think if you put Osceola in prison and you

1033
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 1: you told him to defy his culture at a very

1034
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 1: base level, he would have said, I ain't doing it.

1035
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: I'm dying. That's what he said. That's what he did.

1036
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:28,320
Speaker 1: That's what it comes to. I mean, like people that

1037
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 1: have a rock hard value sism that's connected to their

1038
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 1: culture will die for it. Garrett, I think he absolutely

1039
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:39,400
Speaker 1: did it.

1040
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, man, well, I think it's a it was a

1041
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,240
Speaker 5: different time. I know, you have like a very strong

1042
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 5: value system and that's been shaped by the world that

1043
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 5: you've lived in from the time you were born until now.

1044
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 5: And I think trying to insert yourself, like if you

1045
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 5: took that same narrative of what it was, five or

1046
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,959
Speaker 5: seven out of the first nine presidents owned slaves, right, Okay,

1047
00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 5: would you own a slave right now? But do you

1048
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 5: think George Washington share like had a different value system

1049
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 5: than you did foundationally?

1050
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 2: Right? And so I think it's like really hard to

1051
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 2: say that product daytime.

1052
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 5: That Daniel Boone from the time he was born to

1053
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 5: going and being inserted in that tribe would have made

1054
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:28,800
Speaker 5: him not assimilate or do something like that.

1055
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,919
Speaker 2: I just don't think we could say that he would.

1056
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: That's a good that's a good point.

1057
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:34,760
Speaker 2: Where was he from nine to thirteen?

1058
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: Good point?

1059
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 2: He was a pan That's what I got from this

1060
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 2: whole podcast.

1061
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: No, I hear what you're saying. I hear what you saying.

1062
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: I think it's just a fun like mental.

1063
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 2: Health and you've seen it with people. I mean, people

1064
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 2: do fall, right, so we are people.

1065
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't put it not to trigger you any further, Clay,

1066
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 3: but I've seen some and I've seen it personally. Just

1067
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 3: people strong in their faith make bad decisions. So who knows.

1068
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we don't really know a lot about about

1069
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: Boon's Boon's faith. But just just the assumption if you

1070
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 1: were well, just the assumption that because it was the

1071
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: the trend of the time, that you would do it,

1072
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 1: I think is unfair. Yeah, that's all.

1073
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 2: That's all.

1074
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: That's all. Okay, Now, how much time or where we at?

1075
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 1: I have no concept of time. I mean, how long

1076
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: we've been going.

1077
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 5: We're blown over by two hours technically, but you.

1078
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: Know, oh we always go over an hour. We're good,

1079
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: We're good.

1080
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 2: I'm not worried about it.

1081
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: No, No, I just wanted to make sure we had

1082
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 1: been going, like an hour and a half.

1083
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 2: Okay, push cord yet again? Do it again? Hey, can

1084
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:53,800
Speaker 2: we do this whole conversation but condensed?

1085
00:55:54,160 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, just as natural? But oh wow, yep, oh it was.

1086
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 1: It was interesting to me too. So we we did

1087
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 1: a big series on Crockett and uh Crockett, who was?

1088
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 1: Who was? You know, it's so not politically correct to

1089
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 1: like say this, but he was known as an Indian hunter,

1090
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,879
Speaker 1: you know, which is a wild thing to say and think.

1091
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 1: But like at that time, that's what people became known for.

1092
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 1: Political figures like would get known in these wars against

1093
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 1: Native Americans and would gain clout and status and whatnot.

1094
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: He was known as a kind of known as an

1095
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 1: Indian hunter. But he actually wasn't like today. If you

1096
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: I bet if you pulled a bunch of people here, now,

1097
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 1: these people would know who Crockett is because we're in

1098
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 1: we're in.

1099
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 7: The end zone.

1100
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 1: But Crockett, he did fight in the Red Stick War,

1101
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:54,359
Speaker 1: so he fought against the Creeks under and Uh under

1102
00:56:54,400 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: Andrew Jackson. And but that incident of watching that really

1103
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:05,399
Speaker 1: impacted him for the rest of his life. He would

1104
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 1: not eat potatoes. That's that was what was said. But

1105
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: then you know, he recounted in his autobiography about how

1106
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: like he wasn't cool with that. And then later in

1107
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 1: his political career when it had been would have been

1108
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 1: very advantageous for him to side with Andrew Jackson and everything,

1109
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: he vehemently opposed the Indian Removal Act and then even

1110
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: saying I'm doing this so that in the looking there

1111
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: at that blue tick dog, that's not the real smoky.

1112
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 4: Is it.

1113
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 2: Pampered somewhere?

1114
00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 1: I bet nice looking bluetick.

1115
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 2: You know.

1116
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,439
Speaker 1: He said so in the in in Judgment day, I'm

1117
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 1: found on the right side, which was a pretty progressive

1118
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: position because I mean, obviously most of America was okay

1119
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 1: with this and was behind it, you know, And it

1120
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: probably was one of those social deals that if you

1121
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: went and talked to an individual and so, hey, what

1122
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 1: do you think about us moving all these people out

1123
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: of their home and sending them they might have said, man,

1124
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: it's kind of sad. But then it's like, but what

1125
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: what's your stance on the political part of it? It

1126
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 1: would have been like, well, I kind of want to

1127
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: live in Alabama, you know.

1128
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 2: Yep.

1129
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's one of those deals where they're.

1130
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 4: The human side of it, probably detached a little bit

1131
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 4: from the political side of it.

1132
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot like today.

1133
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: And I think Crockett he saw those people, yeah, getting

1134
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 1: killed and then and then he did he did have rapport.

1135
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 2: With what's perspective too, Like he was in it. He

1136
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 2: saw the suffering.

1137
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 4: When you're detached from it and you don't see that,

1138
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:40,760
Speaker 4: you don't see that stuff every day. You're like a

1139
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 4: that doesn't happen, It's not.

1140
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 2: Everything changes once it becomes personal once it's real.

1141
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's.

1142
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 7: A lot different written on you know in the newspaper.

1143
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you're like, oh, there's no human aspect of it.

1144
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 2: You know, you just read over it.

1145
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,840
Speaker 4: It's just a headline or it's just a something you

1146
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 4: see and you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's that's ridiculous.

1147
00:58:58,080 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 4: And then when you see it in person, you see

1148
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 4: the you're like, oh, dang, yeah, there's a human side

1149
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 4: to it.

1150
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 2: Well.

1151
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 1: I felt like that was a redemptive moment in Crockett's life,

1152
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,520
Speaker 1: and it's it's actually what spurred him to go to

1153
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 1: Texas because he didn't get re elected because of that,

1154
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 1: partly because of that position in his stance against Andrew Jackson,

1155
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: and he was kind of ticked off and was like,

1156
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:25,520
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to Texas. And he goes

1157
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,680
Speaker 1: down to Texas and dies. We were three months in

1158
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:32,200
Speaker 1: the Alamo. But I also thought about I almost didn't

1159
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 1: put that story in the podcast, and I'll tell you why.

1160
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,640
Speaker 1: I knew that a lot of my Seminole Native American

1161
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: friends were going to listen to this, and I thought about, like,

1162
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: what if we told a story about your family, they

1163
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 1: got something like very gruesome and dark. You know. We

1164
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: it's so easy for us to because here I am

1165
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: almost saying, like telling this story and at the end

1166
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 1: there was something positive, which I saying. This ended up

1167
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 1: being a place where Crockett kind of redeemed himself in

1168
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 1: my mind his stance on removal, and like, I bet

1169
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 1: if they were talking about my family, I would be like,

1170
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:17,280
Speaker 1: that's a pretty nice spin. Yeah you see what I'm saying. Yeah,

1171
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: for sure, so I'm conscious of that kind of stuff.

1172
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 7: But it But anyway, so will we hear any of

1173
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 7: those same guests in part two all.

1174
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 1: And there'll be a new guest at some point. It

1175
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 1: was going to be a new guy.

1176
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 4: The level of editing was impressive, like that you had

1177
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 4: to go to all these different places and then intertact

1178
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 4: that that was that was way above my pay grade.

1179
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 4: But my podcast, I'm like, nah, dude, hits starting when

1180
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 4: it's about an hour and a half, we're done, you know, I.

1181
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 2: Mean, that was that was impressive.

1182
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 5: But the audience probably doesn't realize with Clay is when

1183
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 5: like some people will just have a mission of getting

1184
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 5: a podcast and they start on one day and end

1185
01:00:56,840 --> 01:01:00,240
Speaker 5: on the next day and then that's the podcast play

1186
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:06,160
Speaker 5: will go months getting feedback and and sound bites about

1187
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 5: multiple podcasts he has in his mind from different people

1188
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 5: and different guests, and then it all comes together like this,

1189
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 5: and it's it is intensive. I've never seen and I'm

1190
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 5: just gonna toot your horn for a little bit. I

1191
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 5: have never seen a podcast host.

1192
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:21,919
Speaker 2: Sorry, I know, I don't.

1193
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 5: I've never seen a podcast host. They'll take more personal

1194
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 5: ownership in the edit and splicing together of a podcast

1195
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 5: than Clay Like it is.

1196
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 2: It's really cool to watch.

1197
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate it man now. And and that's where

1198
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 1: I'm grateful to. Uh, just having the opportunity to dedicate

1199
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: this much time. I mean, like, imagine if you were

1200
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 1: working nine to five stock and groceries.

1201
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,120
Speaker 4: And then and then had to train, did that early on,

1202
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 4: not stocking groceries, but yeah, it was hard.

1203
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 1: You wake up everything you think about training.

1204
01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 2: I think about it.

1205
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 1: I get to wake up every day and think about

1206
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 1: content for the most part, you know, and uh, it

1207
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: shows like it's yeah, well, and and telling these stories

1208
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 1: has been I love it. I really do love it.

1209
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 7: Did she go on? You know, she talked about that

1210
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 7: figurine that her friend found in Belgium that was made

1211
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 7: in Italy. She going any more like off camera about

1212
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:28,680
Speaker 7: like his world renowned popularity other than just.

1213
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 1: Not really not really. I mean there you start looking

1214
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 1: around and you see a lot of stuff, not just

1215
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 1: from Osceola, but just like Native American kind of totems

1216
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: and different parts and just all over. It's all over, yeah, everywhere.

1217
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 1: But we are going to talk about the Florida State Seminoles,

1218
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: you know, being a college football.

1219
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:57,920
Speaker 2: Act as a mascot.

1220
01:02:58,080 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1221
01:02:58,280 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're pretty passionate about it too.

1222
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there's there's a pretty interesting story there. But uh,

1223
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:09,439
Speaker 1: well man again, we're in uh, we're in Knoxville. Game

1224
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 1: is gonna start here in a little bit.

1225
01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:17,640
Speaker 5: I got something for you, okay, James, Peter, Nancy, Paulie

1226
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 5: William we didn't do trivia.

1227
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

1228
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 2: Now now you just have to ask what is that.

1229
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 1: I can't believe speed trivia a right. The first person

1230
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 1: to spout it off wins. I can't believe I always

1231
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: do this. I gotta have somebody keeping me on track. Trivia, Okay,

1232
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: whoever gets the most points and just whoever I says

1233
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 1: gets the point get the point? No, no, hassling.

1234
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 7: Okay.

1235
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 1: Number one.

1236
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 7: What Spanish word cimarron?

1237
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: One point? You keep you keep your own score. The

1238
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 1: question was what Spanish words is the name seminole taken

1239
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 1: from cimarron means wild ones. It's pretty cool. Number two Okay,

1240
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 1: Josh Bilmaker made these questions that I think he made

1241
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: him for, like his like young kids. They're pretty They're

1242
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,400
Speaker 1: pretty basic. I was looking for, Josh, I was looking

1243
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 1: for something a little more from Okay, where was the

1244
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 1: Ostiola statue gifted to doctor Patricia Wickman purchased and made

1245
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: from where Italy? Okay was happy Belgium. Somebody put those

1246
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 1: two together. Okay, point Josh.

1247
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 2: Well he was asking about it. I feel like these

1248
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 2: are unfair. He already knows them all.

1249
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:40,919
Speaker 1: Well, okay, you get that point, you get the point

1250
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: one to one. Coach number three, Okay, now this one.

1251
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: Just raise your hand and I'll call on you. Okay,

1252
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: who can give a decent explanation of the genealogy of

1253
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: Ostiola leading to his English name? Which was so the answer?

1254
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 1: Hold his English name and the genealogy, Garrett, do you

1255
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 1: have an answer?

1256
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 2: Billy Powell?

1257
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 5: Okay, this is the English name and he was one

1258
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 5: eighth native of Scottish origin.

1259
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 1: Okay, well that's not I'm asking for a decent Well.

1260
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:22,000
Speaker 2: You want you want just what I just said? Yeah,

1261
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 2: what he just said.

1262
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:27,240
Speaker 5: Uh, James was his great great grandpa. You actually got

1263
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 5: it wrong on your podcast. It was his great great

1264
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 5: grandpa in seventeen sixteen to James, and Peter was his son.

1265
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 4: Uh.

1266
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 5: Then Nancy it is Peter's daughter. Then Paulie was Nancy's

1267
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:48,160
Speaker 5: daughter that hooked up William yep, which was Billy's dad.

1268
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 1: That was impressive. That was impressive.

1269
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 2: That's why I get your hands somewhere. All right.

1270
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're giving you two points.

1271
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 2: It's a tag game.

1272
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 1: This is y'all can get your own podcast if you

1273
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 1: want to make the rules.

1274
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 2: This is my rules. Okay, that's like those sandwiches.

1275
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:11,640
Speaker 1: Okay, this is this one. This is a low hanging fruit.

1276
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 1: Y'all be ready, hands on the buzzers. What does Austin

1277
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 1: oldest name mean? Oh?

1278
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:23,200
Speaker 2: The black Drink. Oh yeah, the name of the podcast,

1279
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 2: the Black Drinking.

1280
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 1: Who said it singer? The correct answer is black Drink singer,

1281
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:33,240
Speaker 1: Black drink singer. Did you say, Okay, what's the score?

1282
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 2: Then three three one two. I got six got nothing. Okay,

1283
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 2: I feel like that one is a little shady. I

1284
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:44,160
Speaker 2: just know I have one more point than Tennessee.

1285
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, this one is like way too hard, Josh,

1286
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:50,280
Speaker 1: like turned the throttle like all the way to the top.

1287
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 1: I didn't even know who this was. Okay, who is

1288
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 1: the artist famous for painting the portrait of Osceola stabbing pains?

1289
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:00,320
Speaker 1: Treaty with the Night.

1290
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:01,720
Speaker 2: That's a winner. Takes all of the.

1291
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 7: Sterling, har Joe, I remember that they disagreed that it happen.

1292
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:10,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, famously.

1293
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 1: It's it's like a modern guy that was the chief

1294
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:19,440
Speaker 1: of the in the Seminole tribe. The sterling stated his name.

1295
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody's gonna get it. I wouldn't remembered.

1296
01:07:22,040 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 1: His name is Enoch Kelly Haney.

1297
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1298
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:26,439
Speaker 2: It doesn't even ring a bell.

1299
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 1: Actually yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks Josh. Okay, Josh, let's

1300
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 1: see last question. But there's actually two more questions, but

1301
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 1: we've already answered this one. So hands on the buzzers.

1302
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 1: What percentage Muskogee Creek? Do historians agree that was? Okay,

1303
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:49,680
Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta say one quick thing. Some of

1304
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:54,920
Speaker 1: the Seminoles dispute some of the genealogy of of Osiola.

1305
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 2: The Floridians are the ones in Oklahoma.

1306
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 7: The Floridians dispute. Well, oh, no, I guess you could

1307
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 7: be either way.

1308
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 1: I can't.

1309
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 2: I don't.

1310
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:04,480
Speaker 1: I'm not even going to go into that much detail,

1311
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 1: but there is dispute. Some people are like, no, he

1312
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't seven eighths Scottish.

1313
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 4: So that was interesting too that the him being part

1314
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:18,679
Speaker 4: of the community had more weight than the actual blood,

1315
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:21,560
Speaker 4: you know, because we we attached so much blood.

1316
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:23,599
Speaker 7: Which is interesting when you look at the portrait, I mean,

1317
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 7: you don't see one eighth in seven eighth?

1318
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure? Did you?

1319
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:30,679
Speaker 1: Did you like it when doctor Wickman said, you're you're

1320
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 1: looking at this all wrong. Yeah, you're focusing on what

1321
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:36,519
Speaker 1: non Indians focused on. That was another time she got

1322
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 1: put me in my place and slap it. She was like,

1323
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 1: quit talking, let me this is my podcast.

1324
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 2: Boy.

1325
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 1: Yep, all right, last question, last question, and right now

1326
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 1: the current score is three to one to two. I

1327
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 1: got what was the name of the village where Osceola

1328
01:08:55,200 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 1: was born? Oh? Said multiple must gogi. No, I would

1329
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 1: have had a hard time with it. The correct answer

1330
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:13,600
Speaker 1: is to Lashie and it's it's in Alabama, in Alabama,

1331
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:16,519
Speaker 1: and they know right where the town was. I'm not

1332
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 1: certain exactly what modern town is there, but like that's

1333
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 1: where he was born. So congratulations, bring me down?

1334
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 2: Was it really?

1335
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:30,679
Speaker 1: What's a good tie breaker we could do? We can't

1336
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 1: have the tie.

1337
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,559
Speaker 2: What was the year he moved fourteen? There?

1338
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:34,880
Speaker 4: It was?

1339
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 1: Whoa do you know that was happening? I almost want

1340
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:40,120
Speaker 1: to count that question.

1341
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 2: The year he moved to.

1342
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:45,479
Speaker 1: Would you have known that as quick as him?

1343
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1344
01:09:46,439 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 1: Okay, great he would you would have you have known

1345
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 1: it quicker than him?

1346
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:50,960
Speaker 7: No, I'm not saying quicker.

1347
01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 2: Come on, dude, Yes, get another question, another question.

1348
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 1: If he would have said yeah, I would have got

1349
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 1: it quicker. I would have You know, this is a

1350
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:00,880
Speaker 1: rare moment in the man life when he's able to

1351
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 1: just like public. Harasso helped me with another question.

1352
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:17,360
Speaker 7: Oh, what was Andrew Jackson's nickname? Old hickto?

1353
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 1: Congratulations? Congratulations, great win.

1354
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 2: Was our winner? Jackson? Sorry, it's just hard losing first.

1355
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, It's been like fun, a lot of fun.

1356
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 2: Thanks.

1357
01:10:37,960 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 1: Appreciate you absolutely great, Garrett Hunter, awesome, thanks guys, appreciate it.