Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex bar and Lazarre.
Speaker 2: Hello, everybody nailed it, Joined as always by Power.
Speaker 1: Barat Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bars.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just want to see him punch an offensive lineman him. Now,
Speaker 1: that's all I want to see him doing. Have him
Speaker 1: line up across from the other guy and just come
Speaker 1: out of that seat because he, like you said, the
Speaker 1: way he comes out of that stance, just bull rush
Speaker 1: that other guy till he can't handle it, because that
Speaker 1: is going to be a long day for whoever is
Speaker 1: lining up off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who are you even talking about?
Speaker 1: Keon White? It was metaphorically speaking.
Speaker 2: Man, But you want to see him punch of guys.
Speaker 1: I just wanted we saw you saw how big powerful he.
Speaker 1: I just want to seem over power lineman.
Speaker 2: He's a big guy. We'll get to Minnie Camp and
Speaker 2: all of our takeaways. We're gonna as we do, We're
Speaker 2: gonna rattle off position by a position as fast as
Speaker 2: and as a fly as we can. So you know,
Speaker 2: Marine strap In, It's gonna be be a little while.
Speaker 2: But I have two takes off the top of the show,
Speaker 2: Alex barth Evan Lazar Patriots Catch twenty two with you,
Speaker 2: probably for the next hour and thirty. I would say,
Speaker 2: but like I just said, we're not usually very efficient
Speaker 2: when we go position by a position and run through
Speaker 2: the entire roster like we like to do. But first
Speaker 2: things first, right off the top, if you see us
Speaker 2: on video on YouTube, thank you for watching us on
Speaker 2: on YouTube. You can leave comments things like that, we
Speaker 2: love those. If you see us looking down at our
Speaker 2: phones constantly throughout the entire show, then you all know
Speaker 2: what Because DeAndre Hopkins is he's somewhere in this building
Speaker 2: right now that we're taping this podcast in I had.
Speaker 1: Unless they took him out for lunch. It's a little
Speaker 1: it's a little late for lunch. I forgot. I don't
Speaker 1: have a normal dining.
Speaker 2: So this is this is no joke, no cap right now,
Speaker 2: Oh don't know. I had. You're thirty a dream, You're okay,
Speaker 2: but say, no joke. This is actually true. I had
Speaker 2: a dream, Alex that I was the reason why the
Speaker 2: Patriots did not sign DeAndre Hopkins, that it was my fault.
Speaker 2: So I've spent the entire day avoiding the football department
Speaker 2: side of things here at the office, like the place.
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, what did you do?
Speaker 2: I bumped into him and I and I fan boyd
Speaker 2: and then he got onto a podcast and he was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: there was like this really nerdy kid that like was
Speaker 2: all like fanboy and stuff like that, and it just
Speaker 2: rubbed me the wrong way. It was bad vibes, and
Speaker 2: I just I just liked the vibe in Tennessee better.
Speaker 2: And I was like, everyone's gonna know that's me. I do.
Speaker 2: So that's that's not unrealist, not unrealistic. So I've been
Speaker 2: keeping my distance. I don't want to I don't want
Speaker 2: to see him. Don't ask me for pictures, don't ask
Speaker 2: me to stick it out. I'm not doing it. So
Speaker 2: we'll be on DeAndre Hopkins watch I think for right now,
Speaker 2: it's only two o'clock. So I don't everybody calm down,
Speaker 2: like the fact that we have no news does I
Speaker 2: mean anything yet? Yeah. The report started trickling out of
Speaker 2: Tennessee around four four thirty. I would say on Monday,
Speaker 2: go we can go find it directly that you know,
Speaker 2: good visit, but we're we're gonna keep in touch, but
Speaker 2: no no deal imminent or whatever. So we still got
Speaker 2: a couple more hours, but we're on Hopkins watch here,
Speaker 2: as is all of New England as we Is it.
Speaker 1: Bad that I think we're gonna get the same tweet today?
Speaker 2: Not that that's what I want.
Speaker 1: I'm very I think I've made it very clear how
Speaker 1: I feel about it.
Speaker 2: But no, no, I think that that's very valid and
Speaker 2: very possible.
Speaker 1: Because all right, so hang on, Diana Russini tweeted at
Speaker 1: six twenty three pm. That's like on what was that
Speaker 1: on Monday? Yeah, six twenty three pm. But remember Tennessee
Speaker 1: is an hour behind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they are. I think you're right.
Speaker 1: I don't actually know if that matters or not, but
Speaker 1: uh so six twenty three. And then Jordan Schultz was
Speaker 1: the other one. He tweets a lot.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to scroll here. Yeah right, No, he
Speaker 2: hed it to me, so I got this one, uh
Speaker 2: successful visit with the Titans. So his two he was
Speaker 2: also at six. So we're ways away. So maybe here
Speaker 2: it's five. If that, If that our time difference clock
Speaker 2: is horrible, but maybe that that's the case. Regardless, the
Speaker 2: overall point is is that no news means nothing at
Speaker 2: two o'clock in the afternoon. We got a couple of
Speaker 2: hours to go before we can really hope to hear something.
Speaker 1: I would even say if we get no news today, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's very good. That's a very good sign. If we
Speaker 1: don't get the I and honestly so I think we're
Speaker 1: getting the around dinner time. Yeah, good visit. He's left
Speaker 1: the building. It was a good visit. But he's gonna
Speaker 1: continue explorers options might take more visits. Ian Rappaport said yesterday,
Speaker 1: but he doesn't want to sign till camp. There's really
Speaker 1: no incentive for him to do it. The Patriots have
Speaker 1: to give him the reason to sign before training camp.
Speaker 1: That being set, so I think is gonna happen. That
Speaker 1: is what I think is going to happen. If we
Speaker 1: get nothing today.
Speaker 2: They're negotiating. Then there there.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even say negotiating finalizing. If we get nothing today,
Speaker 1: they're they're waiting for me to get in the T
Speaker 1: box Saturday afternoon on my golf trip to announce it.
Speaker 2: I just know it. I just know it. Or on Monday,
Speaker 2: which is technically a craft group holiday. Thank you mister
Speaker 2: mister Kraft for Juneteenth. So that's gonna happen. Too. But
Speaker 2: I here's my quick thing on d hop because I
Speaker 2: do want to spend most of the show on any camps.
Speaker 1: But sorry, just just to re reiterate that point, just
Speaker 1: to close the point, no news is good news for
Speaker 1: the next like two or three days, and then it
Speaker 1: gets a little worry.
Speaker 2: So here here's my over arching thing with d Hop.
Speaker 2: I I have been all in on this to begin with.
Speaker 2: I I see no reason at this point to to
Speaker 2: not just put the bag on the table and and
Speaker 2: and make this happen. I really don't. I I don't.
Speaker 2: I understand that there's always always the fear of the
Speaker 2: dark horse, the always the fear of the team coming
Speaker 2: out of nowhere and and swooping in at the last
Speaker 2: minute like that.
Speaker 1: Which, by the way, I have my team for that
Speaker 1: which we can go to.
Speaker 2: But there's always that fear. I don't read this situation
Speaker 2: quite the same because he's been available since March, right
Speaker 2: like he so all the teams that have had interest
Speaker 2: in him or whether it's trade interest or now interests
Speaker 2: as a free agent. He has been available for months.
Speaker 2: So this is not like a situation where like all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, DeAndre Hopkins is available and nobody saw
Speaker 2: this coming. Like, we've all known that DeAndre Hopkins can
Speaker 2: be had, whether it was via trade or now via
Speaker 2: free agency. So if all of a sudden a team
Speaker 2: comes out of nowhere at this stage, I just I
Speaker 2: don't see it. I there were no major wide receiver
Speaker 2: injuries in mini camps or OTAs, like. It wasn't like
Speaker 2: one of the contenders lost their their number one or
Speaker 2: number two guide to a torn acl thank god, in
Speaker 2: the middle of June, right because I hate when that happens.
Speaker 1: So I don't one of the Saints draft picks towards
Speaker 1: ac on the last play of OTA.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's brutal. I don't see it. I
Speaker 2: think that Hopkins knows who his suitors are. His suitors
Speaker 2: have reached out. I think they've been in touched probably
Speaker 2: for months at this point, So I don't see it.
Speaker 2: We all want him here. The Patriots should want him here.
Speaker 2: I think the Patriots do want him here, otherwise he
Speaker 2: wouldn't be on this visit. Who's your dark horse?
Speaker 1: So this isn't based on anything. I haven't heard anything.
Speaker 1: This is just objectively looking at things. I was going
Speaker 1: back through because when they said he might take more visits. Right,
Speaker 1: all right, we kind of heard the Texans might be
Speaker 1: a team. I know they said the Browns are out,
Speaker 1: but like, yeah, they could get back in maybe, who knows.
Speaker 1: I know some people talked about the Cowboys, the Bills,
Speaker 1: the Chiefs. Don't have the money. So I'm going back
Speaker 1: through it, like, all right, what teams did we not
Speaker 1: cover that would make sense? Why are the Jacksonville Jaguars
Speaker 1: not all over this?
Speaker 2: That's a good point.
Speaker 1: They have a ton of money. They don't really have
Speaker 1: that true number one. I mean, Kirk had a great
Speaker 1: year for them, Yeah, but he's not that kind of
Speaker 1: he's a slot receiver.
Speaker 2: And they also got Calvin Ridley back, and.
Speaker 1: They have the court. It's it's the same thing as
Speaker 1: the Patriots. You have the quarterback on the rookie deal capitalized.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, I still think it's a possibility.
Speaker 1: But I've heard nothing about them.
Speaker 2: Don't think it's obviously really good player when his when.
Speaker 1: He's also doesn't play here.
Speaker 2: I mean you don't know. Yeah, all right, so that
Speaker 2: that's where things stand with Hopkins. I didn't think of Jacksonville.
Speaker 2: That's a good one. I think that there. To me,
Speaker 2: it's just like you know the Rappaport thing about how
Speaker 2: we could wait the training camp to see if a
Speaker 2: true contender like a Kansas City or a Buffalo don't
Speaker 2: say it, you know Buffalo, Buffalo, Kansas City, you know,
Speaker 2: places like that could swoop in.
Speaker 1: Can I give you one thought on Buffalo on it
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2: But the main thing is with those teams, yes, they
Speaker 2: could figure out come August, Like Kansas City could panic
Speaker 2: and be like, oh god, like our number one receiver
Speaker 2: right now, not outside of Travis Kelsey Sky Moore, right like,
Speaker 2: and it's not good enough. But that doesn't create cap space,
Speaker 2: right like, that doesn't create wiggle room in terms of money.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that these contenders could recognize or somebody could
Speaker 2: get hurt and that could create a spot. But at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, like, they can't pay him
Speaker 2: anymore than they can pay him now. So I don't
Speaker 2: know if it necessarily does the trick for it completely
Speaker 2: to me that Rapaport report yesterday, I think you agree,
Speaker 2: Alex was agent speak for well, just make us a
Speaker 2: great offer, get.
Speaker 1: Us the reason, and not yeah, yeah, what's your Well.
Speaker 1: So here's an interesting one. Rapport was on the pat
Speaker 1: McAfee show.
Speaker 2: This was yesterday.
Speaker 1: No, he was on again like ten minutes ago. Oh,
Speaker 1: DeAndre Hot, So I have to listen to the whole thing.
Speaker 1: But I'm just reading the quote they tweeted out. DeAndre
Speaker 1: Hawkins is still on his New England visit, which is interesting.
Speaker 1: It makes sense to me for d Hot to wait.
Speaker 1: But if the Patriots come in with the right number
Speaker 1: and he's there, anything is possible. So maybe uh thing
Speaker 1: on the bills. And this is not even Evan, it's
Speaker 1: not a Bill's hater take for me, this is a
Speaker 1: legitimate take. We know that there's so thing going on
Speaker 1: with Stefan Diggs. We don't know what it is, but
Speaker 1: the rumblings are it might be contract related. Oh really,
Speaker 1: I mean there's been a couple different rumors, but that
Speaker 1: one's that. That's one that's been floated. He doesn't have
Speaker 1: his contracts big, but not a lot of it's guaranteed.
Speaker 1: And well, if he plays, he'll probably hit those numbers.
Speaker 1: He wants to take care of himself, which he has
Speaker 1: all the right to do. If your star wide receiver's
Speaker 1: mad because you're not giving him enough money and you
Speaker 1: turn around and give that money to another wide receiver.
Speaker 1: That's a mistake.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair, so especially for a thirty one year
Speaker 2: old DeAndre hops Right, we're both very high on but
Speaker 2: is not ranks.
Speaker 1: Like you could see how that Rubs digs the wrong way.
Speaker 1: Now it's snowballing. And this is not me saying this,
Speaker 1: this was Josh Allen said this. They cannot be who
Speaker 1: they are offensively without Stefan Diggs. Yeah, he's the guy
Speaker 1: that makes it. So that's why I rule out the
Speaker 1: bills because if it is a financial thing with Diggs,
Speaker 1: it would be monumentally stupid of them to pay Hawkins.
Speaker 1: Unless Hawkins. If it's a thing where Hopkins is coming
Speaker 1: for a million dollars, that changes things. But I really
Speaker 1: don't think that's what's happening now.
Speaker 2: Quickly on Diggs and then we're really gonna get into
Speaker 2: mini camp. Star wide receivers and we know this in
Speaker 2: New England because we experienced it with Randy Moss. Star
Speaker 2: wide receivers have a shelf life. They all do. Whether
Speaker 2: it's Randy Moss into the Patriots t o at all
Speaker 2: of his various stops. Like for the most part, those
Speaker 2: types of like diva wide receiver types eventually they outwear
Speaker 2: they're welcome as good as they are on the field,
Speaker 2: like Tyreek Hill in Kansas City, right, Like, eventually it
Speaker 2: comes to a head. If you're a Patriots fan and
Speaker 2: you like to to hope for other people's demises, like
Speaker 2: like I think I do. I don't know about you,
Speaker 2: but I'm totally okay with it falling apart in Buffalo.
Speaker 2: That's totally fine with me. If you want to think
Speaker 2: like that, that's the angle to me. I don't know.
Speaker 2: But if it's necessarily about money, certainly money all makes
Speaker 2: everybody happier. But I think it's I think Diggs is
Speaker 2: growing impatient with the lack of winning. And I say winning,
Speaker 2: I mean playoff winning, right, like actually winning, not not
Speaker 2: Buffalo winning.
Speaker 1: Well, but I was told by all the Bills fans
Speaker 1: all this regular season wins meant so much, so.
Speaker 2: I said, not Buffalo winning, like when the afcast when
Speaker 2: the Patriots are rebuilding, and yeah, okay. Wide receivers like that.
Speaker 2: They they tend to get antsy, they tend to get disgruntled,
Speaker 2: they tend to get malcontent. Ye when they're not getting
Speaker 2: something that they want, it can't It might be money
Speaker 2: for digs. It can't be production like he's he's an
Speaker 2: all appropriate.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I keep saying that, people saying like, oh, they
Speaker 1: need to get him the ball more? How much more?
Speaker 2: Are you? Right? No, it can't be that. I think
Speaker 2: it has to come down. It comes down to whatever
Speaker 2: went down that week ahead of the Bengals playoff game,
Speaker 2: and then the Bengals playoff game itself. I think he
Speaker 2: felt like like they let go of the rope, right,
Speaker 2: like you know that, and to him, I think at
Speaker 2: this stage it's unacceptable to not be fully locked in.
Speaker 2: So I'm ready for Buffalo to fall apart. I'm good
Speaker 2: with that. But let's talk about the team here locally
Speaker 2: and talk about the Patriots. Here's my big takeaway for
Speaker 2: Minnie Camp and I'm curious to get your big picture
Speaker 2: takeaway and then we'll get into the nitty gritty. And
Speaker 2: I said this on PU and it's a little bit
Speaker 2: of a repeat if you heard there. But my big
Speaker 2: thing is with the Patriots right now is that I
Speaker 2: feel like they now have the coaching chops and they
Speaker 2: now have the roster to be a competitive football team
Speaker 2: that is in most games. The question that I have
Speaker 2: with them is are they going to have the high
Speaker 2: end talent against the other good teams that they're gonna
Speaker 2: play this year, the other playoff caliber rosters that when
Speaker 2: the chips are down, they make the plays late in
Speaker 2: the fourth quarter and they win those football games. Right, Like,
Speaker 2: are they going to win that Cincinnati game last year?
Speaker 2: That one always comes back to me, just because they
Speaker 2: had all the momentum and they fumble at the ten
Speaker 2: yard line and they lose the game. Are they gonna
Speaker 2: win games like that now? Are they gonna win some
Speaker 2: games that are higher scoring? Are they gonna have the
Speaker 2: high end talent really offensively? Because I can talk myself
Speaker 2: into the high end talent being there defensively from some
Speaker 2: of the younger players like the last couple draft classes.
Speaker 2: But offensively, I think that they're gonna be competent. I
Speaker 2: think that they're headed in the right direction. I think
Speaker 2: that there's a lot of there's a roadmap to where
Speaker 2: they're going schematically, how it all connects schematically, Like when
Speaker 2: we see different pockets of practice, you can see all, right,
Speaker 2: they're doing this now to build it off of that,
Speaker 2: and you can you can see all of it coming
Speaker 2: together and see where where we're headed. There's a lot
Speaker 2: of instances, you know, that were different from last year
Speaker 2: in these practices, Like, okay, it's third down, the defensive
Speaker 2: comes to line scrimmage, got seven guys up on the
Speaker 2: line of scrimmage. They're they're showing all out pressure. They're
Speaker 2: showing the zero blitz. How are we blocking it? Where
Speaker 2: are my hots? What are my receivers doing? Where do
Speaker 2: I go to escape the pressure? Right? If we're gonna
Speaker 2: block it and we're gonna slide it this way, then
Speaker 2: that means the free runner is where?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Like, what's the problem solving going on? Prestap and the
Speaker 2: play that I keep going back to. I believe it
Speaker 2: was on a day one in mini camp. It might
Speaker 2: have been that Friday practice. Those two kind of blended
Speaker 2: together for me. They all blend together at this point.
Speaker 2: They they showed that all out pressure. Look, Mac made
Speaker 2: some adjustments at the line of scrimmage. You know, God
Speaker 2: is his blockers in order and made sure everybody knew
Speaker 2: who was blocking who made a signal out to the receivers,
Speaker 2: and he hit Kendrick Bourne on like a five yard
Speaker 2: slant for a big play against the pressure. Yep, to
Speaker 2: do that be doing that already in the spring. They
Speaker 2: didn't do that at all last year, Like that never
Speaker 2: happened even in the regular season, right, they know, Okay,
Speaker 2: they're bringing pressure. What's my answer? Like, what what's my
Speaker 2: solve here? And they already have some of that going on,
Speaker 2: which is really really good. But I still come back
Speaker 2: to do they have enough high end talent to put
Speaker 2: them over the top, Like, and I'm not just talking
Speaker 2: about receivers. I'm also talking about tackle and I'm also
Speaker 2: talking about the quarterback. And ultimately that's what it comes
Speaker 2: down to is third and six. You know, take away
Speaker 2: the down, two minutes to go three point, you're trailing
Speaker 2: by three, Like, can you put the drive together? Can
Speaker 2: you march down the field? Can you finish the game?
Speaker 2: Can the defense get off the field and present that
Speaker 2: opportunity for the offense? Like those are the types of
Speaker 2: things that I'm still not one hundred percent short because
Speaker 2: the two Bills. I think I'm gonna start calling them that.
Speaker 1: No, because it's already.
Speaker 2: Thanks that I know, but it's like it's so much easier, but.
Speaker 1: It has such a different connotation calling Bill and Bill.
Speaker 2: Bill and Bill can do all the smoke and mirrors.
Speaker 2: They can do all the scheming, they can do all
Speaker 2: the game planning, they can do all the disguising defensively,
Speaker 2: and motion and RPO and this and that offensively. At
Speaker 2: the end of the day, it's gonna be our best
Speaker 2: against your best, and is the Patriots best gonna be
Speaker 2: good enough? And I'm not talking about good enough against
Speaker 2: like the Commanders, right, We're talking about good enough against
Speaker 2: Philly and Week one Buffalo Miami, assuming Tua is healthy. Now,
Speaker 2: the Jets with Aaron Rodgers and I still have some
Speaker 2: serious doubts about whether or not they have enough in
Speaker 2: that department. There's a couple of sources where that can
Speaker 2: come from. One, the quarterback takes a big leap forward,
Speaker 2: right If mac Jones is a much much improved passer
Speaker 2: and playmaker, then maybe that that propels them forward. The
Speaker 2: other one is obviously the one that we just spent
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes talking about, right, and that's DeAndre Hopkins coming here.
Speaker 2: But internally, your veteran receivers, like I'm impressed by Gisiki.
Speaker 2: I to talk about him positively when we get to
Speaker 2: the tight ends or whatever you want to call him,
Speaker 2: they're kind of known commodities, right, Like you know, as
Speaker 2: much as Mikasiki I think is a really is a
Speaker 2: good football player. Mikasiki is not going for fourteen hundred yards, right, Like,
Speaker 2: we know who Mikeasiki is at his best.
Speaker 1: Clip it, clip it. Evan says, Mike is sick. He's
Speaker 1: not going for fourteen hundred yard.
Speaker 2: You we know at his best, he's a seven hundred
Speaker 2: yard guy, right, we know at at his best that
Speaker 2: Juju is probably what he was last year in Kansas City.
Speaker 2: He's he could.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just on volume. Juju could get to a
Speaker 1: thousand yards, Okay.
Speaker 2: But we're capped, right, And I don't mean it in
Speaker 2: the other way. I mean like there's a ceiling to
Speaker 2: all of this there there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And by the way, what'd you say, a sickie's
Speaker 1: I think eight hundred seven hundred right in Miami, like seven.
Speaker 2: Hundred eighty and twenty twenty one. Yeah, So that's a
Speaker 2: ceiling that that was his best.
Speaker 1: Yea, that's a fair that's that's a fair one, right.
Speaker 2: And so I just don't I don't know where the
Speaker 2: needle mover comes. And that's exactly how I felt going.
Speaker 2: So I think in a lot of ways, and if
Speaker 2: you want to spin it positively, Mini camp and OTA's
Speaker 2: confirmed all of my priors right like, in a good way.
Speaker 2: They're a competent offense, they're being well coached again, they're together,
Speaker 2: they have a plan that we can see coming together
Speaker 2: that will hopefully come together by the end of August.
Speaker 2: And defensively, they've got all sorts of options and talent
Speaker 2: and versatility and a lot of fun on that side
Speaker 2: of the ball. And I'm bullish on the defense, and
Speaker 2: we'll get to that in a second. But I still
Speaker 2: just feel like offensively, I can't get to that point
Speaker 2: where I feel like, really really excited about this group.
Speaker 2: I think they're gonna be fine. I think they're gonna
Speaker 2: be good, but I'm still just not not sure that
Speaker 2: they're gonna be where they truly need to be in
Speaker 2: a lot of the ways. You know, those clutch plays,
Speaker 2: those fourth quarters, the ability to win a game thirty
Speaker 2: eight to thirty five, right Like, that's the difference between
Speaker 2: seven wins and ten in this league is a couple
Speaker 2: of games going your way that maybe you expected to
Speaker 2: not go your way. Finishing and closing out games late,
Speaker 2: like not having what happened against Cincinnati, not having what
Speaker 2: happened against Vegas, Like, that's the difference between being in
Speaker 2: the playoffs and not being in the playoffs, and that
Speaker 2: margin is still there for this team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you. Well, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of that was coaching, and the idea is that they've
Speaker 1: rounded themselves out on the margins a little bit and
Speaker 1: they can be better in those situations. My big takeaway
Speaker 1: was kind of the same as yours, is the Bill
Speaker 1: O'Brien effect is real, and I don't know that he
Speaker 1: fixes everything. And I still have one major concern about
Speaker 1: the offense. We'll get into there's some other like minor ones,
Speaker 1: but I have one major concern about the offense. But
Speaker 1: in so many facets, Bill O'Brien has turned around this
Speaker 1: offensive operation. I mean, just big picture, the operation itself.
Speaker 1: They didn't have to stop practice, they have to repeat
Speaker 1: things they didn't like. They it was a normal Mac
Speaker 1: Jones were normal. It's a normal NFL practice on the
Speaker 1: offensive side of the ball. Speaking of mac Jones, he
Speaker 1: is the quarterback. There is no competition. They're not screwing
Speaker 1: around giving Bailey's appy reps. They are getting mac Jones
Speaker 1: ready for the season as they should, which we talked
Speaker 1: about whatever it was a week ago, two weeks ago
Speaker 1: when we previewed spring practices. Mac Jones is the guy.
Speaker 1: This team's ceiling is at its tiest with Mac Jones
Speaker 1: a quarterback. You can't waste time getting two guys ready
Speaker 1: for the season. It needs to be mac Jones getting ready.
Speaker 1: That's what they're doing. That feels like an O'Brien decision
Speaker 1: based on some of the things Bill said in the offseason.
Speaker 2: Well, I can't imagine O'Brien's here to coach Bailey's appy, right,
Speaker 2: no offense to Bailey's appy.
Speaker 1: But we aren't surprised. We were trying to tell everybody else,
Speaker 1: and it's so funny. People from other markets are like,
Speaker 1: why are you reporting there's no quarterback competition?
Speaker 2: Of course there's not.
Speaker 1: Come here and listen. And then there's the actual offense
Speaker 1: part of it and the things they're doing offensively, the motion,
Speaker 1: the concepts, the personnel groupings, the spacing, the rap combinations,
Speaker 1: all of it that just look right to look right.
Speaker 1: And it's not just a good offense. It's built on
Speaker 1: mac Jones's skill set. And I don't even think Bill's.
Speaker 2: Just like, how much of a difference does that make
Speaker 2: is the real question.
Speaker 1: I think a good amount, not the Super Bowl contender.
Speaker 2: Amount, but back in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: Let's yeah, let's put it this way. The offense they
Speaker 1: were running last year could not have been forget the
Speaker 1: whole thing with Patricia and he'd never coached office tour.
Speaker 1: Just schematically, what they were trying to do, the concepts
Speaker 1: they were trying to execute could not both pre and
Speaker 1: post snap could not have been less of a fit
Speaker 1: for mac Jones's skills set. They took all of mac
Speaker 1: Jones's weaknesses, yes, his weaknesses. They took all of mac
Speaker 1: Jones's weaknesses, and they put them front and center. What
Speaker 1: O'Brien is doing. And by the way, I don't think
Speaker 1: this is Bill O'Brien reinventing himself. I really don't. I
Speaker 1: think what he traditionally values and emphasizes to me lines
Speaker 1: up with what Max Jones does.
Speaker 2: To me, what they did the spring offensively, if you
Speaker 2: went and turned on Alabama's tape last year.
Speaker 1: It's so I'm getting to that, literally the exact same thing.
Speaker 1: But it just so happens that all of the things
Speaker 1: Bill O'Brien emphasizes in an offense are Max Jones' strength.
Speaker 1: We've seen quarterbacks go from maybe like a neutral offense
Speaker 1: to an offensive system. They're great. And when's the last
Speaker 1: time you can think of a quarterback like a guy
Speaker 1: that actually, you know, was the starter from week one?
Speaker 2: Yeaha yaha, YadA. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When's the last time you think of a quarterback anywhere
Speaker 1: in the league that played in an offense that played
Speaker 1: to his weaknesses as much as the Patriots offense played
Speaker 1: to Mac jones weaknesses last year. I say that not
Speaker 1: expecting an answer.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it was interesting about it, though, is that
Speaker 2: they thought that they were playing to his strains like
Speaker 2: they they I think they genuinely thought that he could
Speaker 2: air it out like he was doing it.
Speaker 1: He wasn't going to like that wasn't gonna happen.
Speaker 2: That's not saying like I don't want I don't think
Speaker 2: that they purposely went.
Speaker 1: In I okay, so yeah, let me. I don't think
Speaker 1: they went out there saying let's make Mac Jones look terrible.
Speaker 1: I think they misunderstood fundamentally why Mac Jones was as
Speaker 1: successful Alabama as he was. The airing it out is
Speaker 1: a perfect example. And people, I'm the one who pushes
Speaker 1: back on this when people say Mac Jones doesn't have
Speaker 1: a big arm, he can't throw down the field. He
Speaker 1: can in certain concepts, he's not. You said this a
Speaker 1: lot last year. They're trying to turn him in to
Speaker 1: Jameis Winston right that it's not for verts just hucking
Speaker 1: down the field. It's slot seems RPOs things like that,
Speaker 1: which they didn't do last year, which Jeff Howe had
Speaker 1: the report on. I think it was yesterday that there
Speaker 1: are Alabama elements I get starting to make their way
Speaker 1: into the playbook.
Speaker 2: I think it is the Alabama playbook. Yeah, bill O'Brien's alibi,
Speaker 2: not Sarkisian's full.
Speaker 1: But no, but that remember the whole thing about when
Speaker 1: Bill O'Brien got there, When Sark took the job at
Speaker 1: Texas and Bill O'Brien got there, they had Mac Jones
Speaker 1: teach Bill O'Brien Sark's playbook because Nick Saban said it
Speaker 1: might have been more than not. Nick Saban didn't want
Speaker 1: to change the offense.
Speaker 2: But no, I think that's that's so valid. But I
Speaker 2: think a lot of what we saw last year at
Speaker 2: Alabama was a ton of Bill O'Brien.
Speaker 1: Okay, but but there are things now. There was nothing
Speaker 1: in the playbook last year that mac chos was running
Speaker 1: at Alabama.
Speaker 2: Some of their vertical concepts might have been out.
Speaker 1: There was very little in the playbook last year of
Speaker 1: what mak chose was running out.
Speaker 2: Dinky RPO screens that they tried to do like twenty times.
Speaker 1: Very little. Yeah, this year it is going to be
Speaker 1: can I say the heavy majority?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so. I mean we'll see what the
Speaker 2: run game is like. You know, these are passing camps,
Speaker 2: so we haven't really seen I don't think we know
Speaker 2: enough yet to glean Is this going to be like
Speaker 2: you know the McDaniel SCARNECKI Gap Downhill power scheme run
Speaker 2: game or we go? And I think there's still too
Speaker 2: much minutia there once the pads come on to really decide.
Speaker 2: But passing wise, yeah, you saw a lot of that,
Speaker 2: and I think you know, obviously we've all talked about
Speaker 2: it a lot as the two tight ends, and I
Speaker 2: think a lot of that was because of availability. You know,
Speaker 2: they just didn't Juju wasn't out there, Taekwon wasn't out there.
Speaker 2: So who's gonna be Who's gonna catch passes? Right? You're
Speaker 2: gonna have to. So they worked a lot on the
Speaker 2: twelve personnel and the two tight ends, and a lot
Speaker 2: of that was O'Brien stuff.
Speaker 1: Right, So all right, you want you want a little
Speaker 1: Hopkins UPTHINGH What do we got? H?
Speaker 2: So this is someone reel or is this like?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: This is more McAfee show. So i'm not because we're
Speaker 1: on the air, I can't listen to the to the quote,
Speaker 1: but I'm reading the quote that was typed out here
Speaker 1: Pacman Jones, who is friends with Hawkins and he's dropped
Speaker 1: some nuggets before on the Pat McFee show. Today, I
Speaker 1: don't think Hawkins leaves there. I don't think he leaves
Speaker 1: without a deal. Okay, hang, you talk a little bit.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna listen to full quote. You talk a little bit,
Speaker 1: all right, I'll report pack.
Speaker 2: Okay. So while I was doing that, I do want
Speaker 2: to segue. We're talking a lot about the offense and
Speaker 2: the scheme of the big picture. I think you guys
Speaker 2: got the general idea of this, as we like to
Speaker 2: call it on on this program, the alabamafication of the
Speaker 2: Patriots offense. I definitely think that that's in full force.
Speaker 2: I want to talk a little bit about the quarterback
Speaker 2: himself though, and Mac Joe and what we saw out there.
Speaker 2: I think the two the two positives out so I
Speaker 2: saw out of Mac and as he's got the phone
Speaker 2: to the ear right now, this is this is his
Speaker 2: next level. H The two things that I saw that
Speaker 2: were positive I mentioned are already was the command at
Speaker 2: the line of scrimmage right and in adability to make
Speaker 2: adjustments and get teams out of get them out of
Speaker 2: bad plays and block up blitzes and makose types of
Speaker 2: adjustments that are all necessary. And he actually mentioned after
Speaker 2: one of the practices in his press conference that there's
Speaker 2: a lot on the quarterback in this system, but he
Speaker 2: feels like it's good because he has all the tools
Speaker 2: necessary to make the checks and make the calls and
Speaker 2: make the adjustments at the line. I think that's a
Speaker 2: good thing. I think you and this goes back to
Speaker 2: playing to max strains. You have to empower Mac Jones
Speaker 2: at the line of scrimmage because his brain and what's
Speaker 2: between the ears is probably his best asset. And if
Speaker 2: you just call plays in the huddle and then just
Speaker 2: run that play like guys that do that effective are
Speaker 2: like the Lamar Jackson's and the Josh Allens of the world.
Speaker 2: These the physical guys, right that Okay, the play that
Speaker 2: we called in the huddle didn't actually work, but I'll
Speaker 2: just make something playground football, right. The Patriots don't have
Speaker 2: that type of guy, so they have to allow Mac
Speaker 2: to get into every single play properly, like and have
Speaker 2: those check with me is have those two plays called.
Speaker 2: You know, they used to do this all the time
Speaker 2: with Brady. They'd have a run play, they have a
Speaker 2: pass play, and based off the front, based off of
Speaker 2: the look the defense, he would say one or two, right, like,
Speaker 2: whichever one once he got to the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 2: Those things need to happen with Matt Jones as well.
Speaker 2: The second thing that I think is really positive, I.
Speaker 1: Just real quick on that. Yeah, And that's why Bill
Speaker 1: O'Brien was the right guy, because Bill O'Brien's offense, this
Speaker 1: is predicated on winning before the statmore after he.
Speaker 2: Got that's huge. The second thing I he was he
Speaker 2: has made and continues to make some really really pretty
Speaker 2: touch throws down the field, right, like the crossing routes
Speaker 2: the scene phades like you talked about. You know, we
Speaker 2: posted one on our on our Twitter to Mike KASICKI,
Speaker 2: that was like one of the plays of the of
Speaker 2: the week. Offensively, he hit Hunter Henry on a crosser,
Speaker 2: just layered it right over Jalen Mills and right into
Speaker 2: the bread basket. Like those types of throws he can
Speaker 2: make extremely well. I think there's two really really good
Speaker 2: things about Mac. He's back on the on the tracks
Speaker 2: right like the train's back on the tracks. And mentally
Speaker 2: he's picking up what Bill O'Brien is putting down, which
Speaker 2: is I think seventy five percent of what they need
Speaker 2: from him is to be back to the cerebral rhythm
Speaker 2: based passer right that we know that he can be.
Speaker 2: I think the bigger concern, or the only concern that
Speaker 2: I have with him, is not so much that something
Speaker 2: that he did do or didn't do, and these practices,
Speaker 2: I just I can't get too excited or read too
Speaker 2: much into things until that pass rush is live because
Speaker 2: he's the type of guy that in seven on seven
Speaker 2: Mac drops dimes like he drops dimes. He does does
Speaker 2: like he drops. He had a seven on seven period
Speaker 2: on Tuesday where it's you know, high point fade Devonte Parker,
Speaker 2: it's you know seem fade to Mike is SICKI hunter,
Speaker 2: Henry makes the kid, You know what, It's just it's
Speaker 2: his pitch and catch for him. But what's gonna happen?
Speaker 2: And this kind of gets to the tackle thing, But
Speaker 2: what's gonna happen when there's people at his feet, when
Speaker 2: the pocket's collapsing, when he has a free runner coming
Speaker 2: at him and he's got to stare down the barrel.
Speaker 2: I still don't necessarily think that his physical arm talent,
Speaker 2: mobility like, that's gonna be what it is. Like I
Speaker 2: think we can say that now that there might not
Speaker 2: be a huge physical jump for mac Jones where he
Speaker 2: all of a sudden goes from what his arm talent
Speaker 2: is now to having a real live arm like. I
Speaker 2: don't think that that's coming for him because he's in
Speaker 2: great shape. He works with Tom House like, he's doing
Speaker 2: all of it right, and it just is what it is.
Speaker 2: So the question that boils down to is is being
Speaker 2: a step ahead of the defense? Now? Are these things
Speaker 2: gonna be enough for him to improve significantly? And we're
Speaker 2: talking about improving on his rookie year, not improving on
Speaker 2: last year, but proving on the rookie year, and that
Speaker 2: still is a question mark to me, is the physical
Speaker 2: tools of it all. Because if he has time and
Speaker 2: space in the pocket and it can step into the throw,
Speaker 2: he can drop dives like he can make it happen.
Speaker 2: If he's in a muddy pocket, if he's got guys
Speaker 2: coming at him, if he can't step into the throw
Speaker 2: because there's people at his feet, how is it going
Speaker 2: to look? And you just can't tell in the spring
Speaker 2: when about those types of things.
Speaker 1: And the problem is that, you know, if you want
Speaker 1: to jump ahead here I kind of said before, I
Speaker 1: still think there's one big question in this offense. If
Speaker 1: this offense is undone by something this year, it's not
Speaker 1: gonna be the quarterback. It's not gonna coach, it's not
Speaker 1: gonna be the wide receivers. Yeah, it's gonna be the tackles.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Not even like they're fine on the interior Cole Strange,
Speaker 1: David Andrews, Mike go and winning group is solid.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I really don't know what they're gonna do with tackle.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure they totally know yet. Yeah, And that's
Speaker 1: concerning because of exactly what you just said.
Speaker 2: The best way to throw.
Speaker 1: Mac Drones's office rhythm is to pressure him. Now they
Speaker 1: can offset that with some concepts too, right, quick passes,
Speaker 1: things like that, but at a certain.
Speaker 2: Point, concerns about that, like you don't. So the comparison
Speaker 2: that I keep going back to is remember in Miami
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago to a they just had
Speaker 2: a terrible offensive line and they essentially had to be
Speaker 2: like a five yard pass offense. Yeah, they had Jalen
Speaker 2: Waddle in his rookie year catching like eight yard passes right,
Speaker 2: because they just couldn't block it right, and so everything
Speaker 2: became smoking mirrors with that office. Now, that style of
Speaker 2: its actually gave the patron Stephen some trouble, but all
Speaker 2: of it was rpo motion, like everything was happening in
Speaker 2: like a ten yard body.
Speaker 1: But it is that what O'Brien does, So.
Speaker 2: I think so uh, And that's why I like I
Speaker 2: pushed back a little bit on some of the reporting
Speaker 2: out there about all the checkdowns that Mac was throwing.
Speaker 2: Like there's checkdowns and then there's like, you know, just
Speaker 2: running the progression right, and like O'Brien, you know, would
Speaker 2: you call like a juke rout? Did Julian Edelman over
Speaker 2: the middle of checkdown?
Speaker 1: No? But people think it is right, right, So, and
Speaker 1: that's the other part of it. Like you, they're maximizing
Speaker 1: certain guys who I think are better Yack receivers. And
Speaker 1: this is alsoere Hopkins comes in as well. Again, can
Speaker 1: they put You're right, Ma's never going to be a gunslinger,
Speaker 1: but he's far enough along that they can pete put
Speaker 1: the pieces around and and make you work. Yeah, That's
Speaker 1: kind of where I'm at with it.
Speaker 2: That.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there there's always gonna be questions about pressure. There's
Speaker 1: no quarterback is perfect. There was one perfect quarterback that's
Speaker 1: ever played the game. He just retired a couple months ago.
Speaker 2: That's it. But but I think that with him with
Speaker 2: Brady and not to keep him. You know, I hate
Speaker 2: doing this, but he was able to be pressure with
Speaker 2: his release right like he was. So this is my point.
Speaker 2: And if they can get Mack to that point, then
Speaker 2: I'm less concerned.
Speaker 1: So this is my point. We used to do this
Speaker 1: all the time with Brady about him being his own
Speaker 1: best pass protector, right because he get on that back foot,
Speaker 1: you know, get snap back foot, boomed the balls out.
Speaker 1: Everybody members The clip from the twenty eighteen playoffs where
Speaker 1: Joey Bosa is like er Nick Bosa's Joey Bosa's I
Speaker 1: always get the mixed up. Joey Bosa is like Chargers, Right,
Speaker 1: Joey Bosa is like, can you stop throwing the ball
Speaker 1: so quick? I don't have time to get to you.
Speaker 1: Mac is going to need to do that this year.
Speaker 1: So where he does struggle with pressure and that's harder
Speaker 1: to change. Yeah, and this is where again you bring
Speaker 1: Bill O'Brien in that whole pre snap element you just
Speaker 1: addressed into it. Can he be calmer when he knows
Speaker 1: the blitz is coming right, right, because if you can
Speaker 1: at least get him to dissect the blitz and throw
Speaker 1: into it quickly.
Speaker 2: Because he just doesn't, right, because he just doesn't have
Speaker 2: the He needs to be a step ahead, right, And
Speaker 2: it's not only it's with anticipation too. Yeah, Like he
Speaker 2: needs to be he needs to be one of those
Speaker 2: guys that like when the Crossers coming over the middle,
Speaker 2: he hasn't cleared the linebacker yet, but he throws it
Speaker 2: on the other side of the linebacker for it throws
Speaker 2: him into the.
Speaker 1: Past, which we think Mac Jones can do. Like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: everything about Mac Jones tells us. That's a step he
Speaker 1: should be able to make there. He wasn't asked to
Speaker 1: really do any of that last year. I know how
Speaker 1: that worked.
Speaker 2: And this is sort of where, you know, I do
Speaker 2: want to talk about Bailey's appy for a second, not
Speaker 2: not because it's a competition, but just because he is
Speaker 2: on the football team. This is the one area that
Speaker 2: at times I see Bailey being a little bit ahead
Speaker 2: of mac On and it's more towards the sideline, I
Speaker 2: would say, in the middle of the field. But I
Speaker 2: think this is.
Speaker 1: Well because Bailey's appy played in the West Coast in college.
Speaker 2: True West, and I think that this rubs off of
Speaker 2: last year too, is is that there's still maybe a
Speaker 2: little bit of doubt or like lack of confidence in
Speaker 2: mac Jones at the moment that there's it's early, like
Speaker 2: they still got to work that out of him where
Speaker 2: he's still a little bit and see it throw it
Speaker 2: mode and and he's gotta be in anticipation mode. And
Speaker 2: with Bailey, like you do see the ball into the
Speaker 2: sideline especially, I would say, you know, out comebacks like
Speaker 2: things like that into the boundary, that it is out
Speaker 2: a little bit sooner, I think at times than Mac.
Speaker 2: But I go, I do this every practice, we watch
Speaker 2: every single one, I ask myself when Mac is in there,
Speaker 2: then we see Bailey like, what is Zapy better at
Speaker 2: than Mac?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: What is he? What? Literally is he better at than Mac?
Speaker 2: I will give him that. I think that he throws
Speaker 2: the ball to the sideline better than Mac. I think
Speaker 2: he throws it with a little bit more anticipation and
Speaker 2: a little bit more zip. Other than that, I'm not
Speaker 2: sure that there's really anything. The physical tools are about
Speaker 2: the same. I think Mac's actually more accurate throwing down
Speaker 2: the field, like deep balls, like with air under it,
Speaker 2: you know, not drive throws, but true deep balls. And
Speaker 2: Zappy I thought that he struggled at times a little
Speaker 2: bit this spring, especially that last day. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that, you know, to be like ha ha,
Speaker 2: I told you, like, you know, score one for Mac.
Speaker 2: I just I can't see currently Zappy having the physical tools,
Speaker 2: not necessarily the intangibles and not like yeah, maybe he's
Speaker 2: in better standing with the head coach and like I'm
Speaker 2: not getting into any of that crap. The main thing
Speaker 2: is is like is he is? Could you see a
Speaker 2: path where he's a much better football player than Mac Jones.
Speaker 2: And I don't think it's close enough or even ahead enough.
Speaker 2: I should say for Bailey Zappy for him to truly
Speaker 2: push Mac Jones. And I still feel that way coming
Speaker 2: off the spring.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, i'd agree with you. But again I think
Speaker 1: the things you're talking about Mac throwing with anticipation, he
Speaker 1: can get there. This isn't a thing where like, oh
Speaker 1: he needs to be more athletic and that's just never
Speaker 1: gonna happen. This is and it's something Bill O'Brien I think.
Speaker 2: Is the right coach to get him. I just want
Speaker 2: to see, one time, one time, just throw like a
Speaker 2: twelve yard incut with a little bit of anticipation and
Speaker 2: with a little bit of smoke on it, right, Like,
Speaker 2: just just fit it in there one time. And I
Speaker 2: think sometimes that that throw isn't necessarily there. Like he
Speaker 2: can distribute the ball underneath the defense, he can get
Speaker 2: it out. He can throw the touch deep balls, you know,
Speaker 2: the lob throws and things like that and drop it
Speaker 2: in the bucket. But can he fit a ball, you know,
Speaker 2: twelve yards down the field that the sticks between two
Speaker 2: defenders and get it there. And in order for him
Speaker 2: to be able to do that. It's going to have
Speaker 2: to come out early, and he's gonna have to be
Speaker 2: able to anticipate it and see it before it happens,
Speaker 2: and that's gonna be key for him. All right, Quarterbacks,
Speaker 2: anything to say about Trace mcsorly, I got nothing?
Speaker 1: Uh no, okay, and Rocket include Malie kuny cahme here
Speaker 1: because he is a wide receiver.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay. Running Backs, this has been oddly something that
Speaker 2: I've got. I don't know about you, Ox, but I
Speaker 2: did the mail back today for us on Patriots dot Com.
Speaker 2: Some questions about the running backs, certainly after James Robbins.
Speaker 2: I think some of this is fantasy driven. I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna lie. Yeah, Ramandra Stevenson's Ormandra Stevenson didn't see a
Speaker 2: ton of Remondre in the spring. I don't think they
Speaker 2: feel like they need to see him in the spring.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's injury related or anything else related.
Speaker 1: I think it's quite the workload last year.
Speaker 2: I'm yeah, it doesn't doesn't really need to be a
Speaker 2: featured part of the spring, but it is interesting to
Speaker 2: see the other guys. Whether you want to call him
Speaker 2: a wide receiver, running back time Montgomery is once again
Speaker 2: having a great spring, had a great summer last year,
Speaker 2: great spring last year, doing it again. Whether or not
Speaker 2: he can stay healthy question mark, whether or not it's
Speaker 2: it's real. I don't necessarily have as many questions about that.
Speaker 2: I think time Montgomery could be a useful player for
Speaker 2: the team if he's healthy. And I like two things
Speaker 2: about his game. One, he seems to know the right
Speaker 2: spots and like read things out correctly. Underneath. You know,
Speaker 2: they do run him on some options and some you know,
Speaker 2: different types of coverage conversions, like I wouldn't call them
Speaker 2: like full like carte blanche, do whatever you want option routes.
Speaker 2: But you know he'll sit when he needs to sit,
Speaker 2: he'll run when he needs to run, like that sort
Speaker 2: of thing. He's got good hands and he just it
Speaker 2: seems like when the quarterbacks need to look for somebody
Speaker 2: to dump the ball off to time Montgomery's in the
Speaker 2: right spot and where he should be on time. And
Speaker 2: there's something to be said for that. We know how
Speaker 2: valuable that can be. And he's somebody that really does
Speaker 2: blur the lines formationally. He can flex out. You can
Speaker 2: run an empty set, have him flex out wide and
Speaker 2: then bring him in and cause that sort of confusion
Speaker 2: things like that. So he's got some versatility, He's got
Speaker 2: that headiness or that instincts to play this position. I
Speaker 2: think right now, as much as I would love Pierre
Speaker 2: Strong to take the job, I think right now, Time
Speaker 2: Montgomery's the third down back. I think he's the favorite
Speaker 2: for that position.
Speaker 1: Well, what's really interesting is there's times where Time Montgomery
Speaker 1: was one of two running backs on the field. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and DA can get cloudy as well, and I think
Speaker 1: that's something they want to do. We've talked a lot
Speaker 1: about Mike is SICKI right, Yeah, can they when they
Speaker 1: put him on the field, they can kind of disguise
Speaker 1: eleven personnel or twelve personnel and the other.
Speaker 2: Team doesn't know.
Speaker 1: There might be some of that with to Montgomery too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: are you they in eleven or are they in twenty
Speaker 1: one with him? And for that to work, though, you
Speaker 1: need Pierre Strong and or Kevin Harris to be able
Speaker 1: to be like a solid second running back beyond Rmandre Stevenson.
Speaker 1: I would say both of those guys were involved during
Speaker 1: the spring. And this is something I've talked about, the
Speaker 1: idea that they didn't play last year because the coaching
Speaker 1: staff is out on them and they're buried or whatever.
Speaker 2: Not the case.
Speaker 1: I think the coaching staff still really likes both of
Speaker 1: these guys. I think they're both going to get a
Speaker 1: shot to contribute this year in some way. Those four.
Speaker 1: That's a solid running back round.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not worrying about running back room at all.
Speaker 1: I'd like to see him add and this is really
Speaker 1: niche like, add one more guy that you can stash
Speaker 1: on the practice squad and if somebody gets hurt, you
Speaker 1: can call him up and like he's been here, you're
Speaker 1: not getting him off the street. Maybe that's JJ Taylor.
Speaker 2: Right, but maybe somebody that's more of like in the
Speaker 2: early down mold than JJ Taylor, I guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you want to name, You're gonna roll your eyes.
Speaker 1: You know, Reggie Corbyn is the starting do you know
Speaker 1: who that is?
Speaker 2: And yes, what Reggie? What do you mean?
Speaker 1: Reggie Corbin starting running back for the Michigan Panthers in
Speaker 1: the USFL liked what I've seen from him and he's
Speaker 1: a good, well like solid, well rounded stash.
Speaker 2: So you do feel like I guess the I think
Speaker 2: the biggest question with the running backs and with Pierre Strong.
Speaker 2: It is my quick take on on the two.
Speaker 1: Do you hate Reggie Corbin's I don't know.
Speaker 2: Just like I don't hear your World League or whatever,
Speaker 2: I don't have anything for it. Second year running back
Speaker 2: it takes one Pierre Strong. I don't know if Pierre
Speaker 2: Strong is yet to the point consistently enough that he's
Speaker 2: like a volume guy. I think he's a really fast,
Speaker 2: explosive player with the ball in his hands. That's worth
Speaker 2: giving him those three to five touches the game just
Speaker 2: to see if he breaks one, right, But I don't
Speaker 2: know if he's a true spell back yet. For Remandre,
Speaker 2: I was pretty impressed with Kevin Harris. I his game
Speaker 2: is not supposed to be in shorts and a T shirt, right,
Speaker 2: Like he's a bulldozing running back, like you know, early
Speaker 2: down to a tee like Garret Blunt style back. He
Speaker 2: looked pretty spry out there. I think we never got
Speaker 2: to talk to him, but I wonder if he lost
Speaker 2: some weight or something like. He looked pretty explosive and
Speaker 2: he wasn't fighting the ball or anything like that catching
Speaker 2: it either. Like I thought he looked a lot better
Speaker 2: as a receiver than I expected. It and stood out
Speaker 2: in these practices a little bit more than I would
Speaker 2: expect that two and twenty pound running back to stand
Speaker 2: down in the spring. So we'll see with both of them.
Speaker 2: I'm still I'm still clamoring to see Pierre Strong in
Speaker 2: the open field with the football, like I still want
Speaker 2: to see that. I just don't know if that's if
Speaker 2: it's like two or three times a game or is
Speaker 2: it ten times a game? Right, and they need somebody
Speaker 2: that's ten times a game they do that might be
Speaker 2: more Kevin Harris at this point. If they really want,
Speaker 2: like Damien Harris replacement of a guy that Ormandre is
Speaker 2: going to carry it twenty to twenty five times, and
Speaker 2: you need somebody else to carry it ten to fifteen times,
Speaker 2: that might be Kevin Harris.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Pierre Strong is more of your like
Speaker 1: big hitter back and your if time Montgomery is going
Speaker 1: to have more of a wide receiver role of the
Speaker 1: guy that's stepping in there. I wouldn't hate seeing them
Speaker 1: add another big body back too. If if they how
Speaker 1: about Furnette, I thought he were tired. No, that was
Speaker 1: Jioe Bernard, Oh, another former Buck. I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: I was going to give you another buck running. Wait,
Speaker 1: what Fornette's not a buck? Oh Tampa day buck? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of a buck. I what neither one?
Speaker 2: You know? I love Zeke, I want Zeke. I don't
Speaker 2: mind Zeke. I just wonder Zeke got a little bit
Speaker 2: what's the word annoyed by Tony Pollard in Dallas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's more one of those things.
Speaker 2: Is he gonna be? Is he gonna be a sidecar?
Speaker 1: My My counter would be as he gonna sit out
Speaker 1: the season?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I love Zeke. I've always loved zee Ya. He's
Speaker 2: not the same player that he was early on in
Speaker 2: his career, but as a number two back, I mean you,
Speaker 2: he's probably be the best number two back in the league.
Speaker 2: It's just whether or not Zeke would be willing to
Speaker 2: be a number.
Speaker 1: Two I think. I also think people underestimate his football maturity.
Speaker 1: Football like he's he's a great blocker. Yeah, that's the thing,
Speaker 1: like a guy like that in such a young running
Speaker 1: back room. Yeah, I think would be incredibly Right now,
Speaker 1: I'm not going out paying him a ton of money.
Speaker 1: I'm not like paying him over Hopkins. But yeah, if
Speaker 1: you get to late July and he's still unsigned. I
Speaker 1: call him be like, hey, but so you know, if
Speaker 1: you want to play this year, we'll we'll take you
Speaker 1: that kind of thing, all right, But yeah, I just
Speaker 1: to get back to it. I Yeah, I think Strong
Speaker 1: is more of the guy if they want to get
Speaker 1: creative with Montgomery where he's gonna go. But and I
Speaker 1: want to get into that a little more when we
Speaker 1: do the tight ends too, because I think there's something
Speaker 1: that's in there. But yeah, no, it's I mean they
Speaker 1: have a solid group. It's going to be a rotation.
Speaker 3: Really.
Speaker 1: I think Stevens is gonna be the number one, but
Speaker 1: I think all four guys will contribute to some extent
Speaker 1: this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, before we get to the next position
Speaker 2: to get to wide receiver, this is going to be
Speaker 2: a hefty one. Let's take these calls and these guys
Speaker 2: have been waiting on hole for a long time. Sean
Speaker 2: and Vancouver, thanks for hanging on. What's up? Sean? Seans up?
Speaker 2: Going on? Sorry? Chuni, Yeah, we did give him a call,
Speaker 2: give us a callback. That's my fall. You guys have
Speaker 2: been waiting for a long time. Justin you there, what's up? Justin?
Speaker 4: Hey guys, Hey just wanted to kind of continue with
Speaker 4: the conversation you guys are having. So when it comes
Speaker 4: to Zeke, I definitely agree that I think he has
Speaker 4: a lot to offer as like the second string running back.
Speaker 4: How much do you think that kind of like his
Speaker 4: legal issues in the past and like, like you said,
Speaker 4: his personal issues like as as a character like would
Speaker 4: affect kind of his perceived market value. Not saying he's
Speaker 4: been terrible or anything, but just like his locker room aspect,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, that that's sort of where I'm at,
Speaker 2: justin his own things for the call, I'm not I
Speaker 2: don't really delve too much into the off field stuff
Speaker 2: like that's not I don't. I don't know enough about
Speaker 2: the situations and things like that to really speak on that.
Speaker 2: But in terms of like the football side of things,
Speaker 2: in the locker room side of things, my concern is
Speaker 2: not that Zeke is like you know, what's the old saying,
Speaker 2: like you know, malcoontent or turn in the punch bowl
Speaker 2: or anything like that. But I would just to be
Speaker 2: concerned that he's not going to be the guy, like
Speaker 2: he's not going to be the featured back. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 2: you don't gonna behind clearly behind Remondra Stevens.
Speaker 1: You'd obviously have to make sure he buys in. I'm
Speaker 1: not just saying sign him out right, but again, it's
Speaker 1: that kind of thing where doesn't feel like he has
Speaker 1: a lot of options. Yeah, Dalvin Cook's gonna sign before him,
Speaker 1: right there's I know there's another running back on forgetting
Speaker 1: that's probably gonna sign before him.
Speaker 2: Well, right now, it's really the top ones are Zeke,
Speaker 2: Dalvin Cook, and Fournette.
Speaker 1: Fournette probably will sign before him. Does he want to
Speaker 1: sit out the year? That's kind of what it comes
Speaker 1: down to to me is if it's be the second
Speaker 1: running back in New England or not play football right,
Speaker 1: then maybe he becomes a little more amenable to it. Hey,
Speaker 1: come here, be the second back. We'll give you some
Speaker 1: opportunity to showcase. But you can do and you hit
Speaker 1: the market next year kind of you know, with your
Speaker 1: with your stock rates. Because he did not have a
Speaker 1: good year.
Speaker 2: Last that would be I mean not that not that
Speaker 2: either one of them is necessarily still in their primes,
Speaker 2: but the Patriots acquiring to Zeke Elliott and DeAndre Hopkins
Speaker 2: in like June and July would would.
Speaker 1: Be they'd be a wagon in like twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go. All right, let's talk wide receivers,
Speaker 2: A big position group, a lot of people to delve
Speaker 2: into here. We will talk about Malie Cunningham in a second,
Speaker 2: but I want to start with DeVonta Parker.
Speaker 1: Sorry, Zeke's only twenty seven.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just running backs, dude, Like they.
Speaker 1: Just that's insane. I thought he was like twenty nine. Nins, No,
Speaker 1: that's insane.
Speaker 2: He has so many carries.
Speaker 1: I know he does, but I didn't just forget the carries,
Speaker 1: just like I remember watching him in college.
Speaker 2: A ton of cares.
Speaker 1: He feels like it was forever ago, I know, but.
Speaker 2: He had a ton of carries at Ohio State. He
Speaker 2: had a ton of carries early on in Dallas. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's been he's been written worn down. How he came
Speaker 2: to twenty sixteen?
Speaker 1: How old was he when he came in the league,
Speaker 1: Like he's like twenty Yeah, okay, he was. He was
Speaker 1: a stud Yeah, I know he was. I mean what
Speaker 1: he did to that Alabama defense in the playoff game
Speaker 1: is legendary.
Speaker 2: All right, wide receivers, I want to start with Devonte Parker.
Speaker 2: I never feel bad for professional football players. Making millions
Speaker 2: of dollars. But I feel for Devonte Parker a little
Speaker 2: bit with this DeAndre Hopkins thing because I still think
Speaker 2: DeVonta Parker is a solid NFL receiver and I still
Speaker 2: think that for what it's worth man to man on
Speaker 2: the outside press coverage, like he's the best receiver they
Speaker 2: have at just defeating press at the line and going
Speaker 2: up and getting a pass down the sideline. Like I
Speaker 2: really feel like he's he's their best outside receiver. I
Speaker 2: don't think that's a hot take to say, and I
Speaker 2: think he's still an NFL caliber ex receiver. He just
Speaker 2: for a team that needs somebody to move the needle,
Speaker 2: it's obviously Hopkins is worth investing in and trying to
Speaker 2: move that needle. He was the one guy. And I
Speaker 2: totally understand when he was asked about DeAndre Hopkins, Like
Speaker 2: wasn't really super thrilled to talk about DeAndre Hopkins, right,
Speaker 2: And I totally get it. I think DeAndre uh Devonte Parker,
Speaker 2: excuse me, is a really solid NFL player. It just
Speaker 2: comes back to health. You know, he's staying on the
Speaker 2: field and is he solid? Is solid? Good enough?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Like he's solid, But that's not really needle moving or
Speaker 2: difference making. But like I said, when he sees press
Speaker 2: coverage and he's got to go up and catch a fade, like,
Speaker 2: he's the best they got right now on the roster
Speaker 2: if we're not counting DeAndre Hopkins, who's not on the
Speaker 2: roster yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, he absolutely is their wide receiver corps as
Speaker 1: a whole. Like the top of the depth chart, right,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have Devanta Parker is your ex. Yeah, You're
Speaker 1: gonna have Jujus muth Schuster in the slot yep. And
Speaker 1: you're gonna have born at Thornton competing for raps however
Speaker 1: you want to qualify.
Speaker 2: That at the ze.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then maybe Mike Kisiki factors in there too,
Speaker 1: and maybe Time Montgomery factors in the slot. Yeah, that's fine,
Speaker 1: it's good. But we kind of saw these last couple
Speaker 1: of weeks how fast that depth falls off because Taekwon.
Speaker 1: We know there's durability questions with him. Parker, there's durability
Speaker 1: questions with him. Juju's actually been on the field pretty
Speaker 1: consistently throughout his career, but you worry about a guy
Speaker 1: dealing with a knee injury like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So.
Speaker 1: I like, as crazy as this sounds, look upgrading over
Speaker 1: upgrading Hopkins to Parker definitely makes a difference. But outside
Speaker 1: of that, for me, it's like, who's the next guy.
Speaker 1: When it's all role in the first couple of weeks
Speaker 1: and then Dorton gets hurt or Parker gets hurt, who
Speaker 1: are you adding into that wide receiver rotation so things
Speaker 1: don't fall off? That to me is the big competition.
Speaker 1: Is it time Montgomery playing significantly a wide receiver? Because
Speaker 1: if so, then you gotta get something from Kevin Harris
Speaker 1: or Pierre Strong. Isn't Mike a sickie? Well? That might
Speaker 1: change your whole offense if you're trying to do these
Speaker 1: twelve personnel things and then you get down to are
Speaker 1: we finally gonna do the trade Nixon thing? Ed Lee
Speaker 1: popped a little bit, But you know, Douglas to Mario, Well,
Speaker 1: that's it. I don't think it's to Mario Douglas because
Speaker 1: he's a gadget player. He's not gonna step into a
Speaker 1: role that one of these other guys are filling. He's
Speaker 1: having his own role. Maybe it's Kayshawn Butte that's probably
Speaker 1: who it should have been. That's why I thought it
Speaker 1: was coming in, but he hasn't been on the field.
Speaker 1: So look last year, at least early in the season,
Speaker 1: the guy I'm describing was L J. Humphrey. He wasn't
Speaker 1: signed at this point last year, he was still a
Speaker 1: free agent. So there's still a way to go. There's
Speaker 1: still a ways to go with that. But yes, they
Speaker 1: could upgrade Parker to Hopkins. Absolutely. Outside of that, they're
Speaker 1: doing okay at the top of the depth chart. It's
Speaker 1: more just injuries are really this group could really get
Speaker 1: derailed by injuries if nobody else steps up as even
Speaker 1: just like a potential part time contributor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think that that's a fair point. I
Speaker 2: also think that another fair point is from what we
Speaker 2: saw without Taekwon Thornton, this there's just no deep threat whatsoever.
Speaker 2: Like there's just no vertical element to this offense. The
Speaker 2: vertical element without him is DeVante Parker winning a fifty
Speaker 2: to fifty ball down the sideline or the tight end,
Speaker 2: stretching the seams right like those. That's like how they
Speaker 2: get vertical. And I understand that Bill O'Brien's offense has
Speaker 2: never been chuck it up outside the numbers like vertical,
Speaker 2: you know, type of offense like this isn't that's not
Speaker 2: what it's going to be, even if they add DeAndre Hopkins.
Speaker 2: It's it's just not what they do. But I really
Speaker 2: like think there's a lot on the line with Taekwon
Speaker 2: and it's not just I think people get sometimes a
Speaker 2: little bit too bogged down in production and like stats.
Speaker 2: It's not about the stats. It's just like about having
Speaker 2: somebody that can stretch the field and having to respect
Speaker 2: that ability to stretch the field. These last you know,
Speaker 2: he was out there for that first practice. I was
Speaker 2: all jazzed up about it. The four practices that we
Speaker 2: saw after that, without him, you could feel it, like
Speaker 2: you could feel that the offense was still it was
Speaker 2: back to operating in like a twenty yard box from
Speaker 2: the line of scrimmage. And if there's no vertical stretch
Speaker 2: the offense, it's a problem. I really think that they
Speaker 2: need Taekwon Thornton out there simply because like they don't
Speaker 2: have another guy like that. You know, it's they don't
Speaker 2: have another burner in the group. It's just it's him.
Speaker 2: It's it. You know, that's just not what these other
Speaker 2: guys do. It's not what Hopkins is either. So it's
Speaker 2: gonna be interesting to see if he can stay healthy,
Speaker 2: if he can stay on the field. I'm not as
Speaker 2: worried about the depth because I find it interesting. And
Speaker 2: we have a question here. I'm assuming a lot of
Speaker 2: people are asking this, But how did if they do
Speaker 2: sign Hopkins? Yeah, who's the odd man out? Is like
Speaker 2: the hot question, right, and a lot of questions, you know,
Speaker 2: Thomas asks like why not keep both? And I think
Speaker 2: the problem that I keep on coming back to is
Speaker 2: it might be in the best interest of the depth
Speaker 2: of the football team to keep both, But can you
Speaker 2: keep both of them happy? Right?
Speaker 1: Parker is in a contract year, he's a veteran, he's
Speaker 1: an established player. He's gonna want to play. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: not gonna want to be here. Also, you know they're
Speaker 1: gonna want to open money. Back up, it's six point
Speaker 1: two million if they move on from Parker with no
Speaker 1: dead cap. Now, let's let's just clarify this. We're talking
Speaker 1: because people have said, like, you know, sign Hopkins today,
Speaker 1: cut Parker tomorrow.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, let a playoff.
Speaker 1: You keep them both until you have to choose, which
Speaker 1: is roster cuts because guys get hurt. You never know
Speaker 1: what happens.
Speaker 2: And I also think that Devonte Parker not that he
Speaker 2: has like this immense trade value, but he's an affordable
Speaker 2: starting I wonder if that he's one of those trades
Speaker 2: at the end of training camp, that is, for a
Speaker 2: position the Patriots need to a wide receiver needed team,
Speaker 2: like maybe they get a tackle back, you know.
Speaker 1: Or at the very least, could they get back what
Speaker 1: they gave up for him. I don't think that's unrealistic.
Speaker 2: I would just I would more be inclined to trade
Speaker 2: him for a player. Yeah, but especially that to me.
Speaker 2: But yes, but we did this last year. Teams don't
Speaker 2: trade tackles. Teams don't trade there maybe not enough tackles,
Speaker 2: like you know, maybe somebody I hope nobody gets hurt,
Speaker 2: but like maybe they feel like they need another depth
Speaker 2: body someplace.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it could be that. Maybe you know, if
Speaker 1: Florence guys hold out continues, maybe it's a defensive linement
Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, you don't trade them until you
Speaker 1: have to. But I do think it is uh Parker,
Speaker 1: people people on Twitter want to know if we can
Speaker 1: go find Hopkins and get them on the show.
Speaker 2: Absolutely not.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because you had your dream.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you leave, you you leave.
Speaker 1: We'll sit him down there, I'll talk to him.
Speaker 2: I had my dream and I also value my job,
Speaker 2: so I am not going to be doing that anyways.
Speaker 2: Let's talk. I want to talk about Kendrick Bourne for
Speaker 2: a second. What were your just general impressions of Kendrick Boyn.
Speaker 2: I know a lot was made about the press conference
Speaker 2: and how he basically just railroad at the staff last year.
Speaker 2: I sort of snickered at it too. I got it
Speaker 2: was kind of funny, but regardless, I I don't really
Speaker 2: care like that's that's for other shows, Like I don't
Speaker 2: really care about all the drama or whatever. The question
Speaker 2: that I have with Kendrick Bourne, Uh well, let.
Speaker 1: Me say one thing on that and what he said
Speaker 1: about Hopkins and just that whole thing. Yeah, his mentality
Speaker 1: of I think he's really ride or die with his teammates.
Speaker 1: Like his teammates, right, A guy like that always brings
Speaker 1: the positive energy, Like even last year when it was
Speaker 1: clearly going rough for him, he was always smiling. All that.
Speaker 1: That guy can play for me any day. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: find a spot for that guy on my team.
Speaker 2: So there's that school thought. Do you think that's how
Speaker 2: they think, because I don't know. I don't so him
Speaker 2: coming out and saying what he did about the coaching staff,
Speaker 2: and I think, what what the problem is with Kendrick
Speaker 2: Bourne that they probably have with him? And this is
Speaker 2: not source or anything like that. I'm just saying what
Speaker 2: reading the tea leaves he he doesn't think that he
Speaker 2: needs to like bow down to two superiors, right like
Speaker 2: he doesn't feel I don't think that there's I don't
Speaker 2: know that it's that. I I don't think that he
Speaker 2: gives a crap about what anybody.
Speaker 1: I just think he's an emotional guy. He's a passionate guy,
Speaker 1: and I don't think they love that emotion boiling over sometimes.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's about superiors or it is so importunate.
Speaker 2: They like guys, in my mind, that fall in line, right,
Speaker 2: like you take your marching orders and you fall.
Speaker 1: I don't even think it's that. I think they like
Speaker 1: guys that put their head that like not too high,
Speaker 1: not too low.
Speaker 2: Thing right.
Speaker 1: If there's Kendrick Horn gets little high, gets a little low.
Speaker 1: He's just an emotional guy. I don't I don't think
Speaker 1: it's in any negative like, I don't think he means poorly.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's trying necessarily be disrupted. I just
Speaker 1: think he's an emotional guy. That's who he is. There's
Speaker 1: benefits in that too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he plays.
Speaker 1: I just think they want the guy that puts his
Speaker 1: head down and not him. Right, But what did you
Speaker 1: give a couple of those guys, what do you think
Speaker 1: he looked like? I thought he looked good. I thought
Speaker 1: he looked good.
Speaker 2: Looks strong. He does look a little thicker.
Speaker 1: He looks strong. I thought, you know, his movements were
Speaker 1: really crisp. I think, and I say this all the time,
Speaker 1: I think people really underrate I think people underrate him
Speaker 1: as a whole. But I think, really people really underrate
Speaker 1: his ability after the catch.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I think this offense is really really fits him.
Speaker 1: Very Yeah, I don't. You don't necessarily get to see
Speaker 1: a ton of after the catch stuff in these kind
Speaker 1: of practices, non contact, but watching him like cut in
Speaker 1: and out of routes and stuff like that, he runs
Speaker 1: away from guys.
Speaker 2: He can run.
Speaker 1: He's not like the fastest player, yet he's constantly running
Speaker 1: away from defenders because he makes it work with subtlety
Speaker 1: and things like that. I really like he's gonna be
Speaker 1: back in a role this year.
Speaker 2: He's gonna won.
Speaker 1: He's gonna be back on the field this year too.
Speaker 1: He's gonna be back in a role that fits him. Evan,
Speaker 1: you know this, My opinion on Kendrick Bourne hasn't changed
Speaker 1: by all the Kendrick Bourne stock Now. I I think
Speaker 1: his potential is immense. I think he can be a
Speaker 1: really really solid number two receiver, really solid complimentary guy. Wait,
Speaker 1: whoever the number one is, whether it's it's Parker, whether
Speaker 1: it's Hopkins, is probably true if it's Hopkins. But and
Speaker 1: we we've had this conversation other times on the show, right,
Speaker 1: the Tuesday Morning guy, the guy that even if somebody
Speaker 1: else is hot, like last year, right, all the teams
Speaker 1: were focused on Jakobe Myers and then DeVante Parker got hot,
Speaker 1: so they were like, we're gonna shade coverage over DeVante
Speaker 1: Parker and Myers couldn't really like nothing really changed, Right,
Speaker 1: if DeAndre Hopkins is here, or if DeVante Parker is
Speaker 1: a really good season, teams aren't gonna stop shading coverage
Speaker 1: off of them even if somebody else hit heats up, Right, Yeah, Kendrick,
Speaker 1: you sound unsure, but.
Speaker 2: I well, I think we're forgetting I just think we're
Speaker 2: forgetting Juju because he wasn't out there. That's fair.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying this isn't even about Juju. It's about
Speaker 1: Kendrick Bourne should be in a spot where he is
Speaker 1: going to see one on one coverage more often than not.
Speaker 1: Kendrick Born as a guy who is going to make
Speaker 1: teams pay and one a significant amount of And that's.
Speaker 2: Why I just my message to Kenrick Bourne has nothing
Speaker 2: to do. I don't actually care as about him speaking
Speaker 2: out in the media. I don't. I don't care. It's
Speaker 2: great for us and I but on a I don't care.
Speaker 2: I care because I don't want them to use that
Speaker 2: as a reason to kick him off this team.
Speaker 1: No, no, yeah, right, so he can give them something
Speaker 1: fall in.
Speaker 2: Line just for the sake so that you can be
Speaker 2: here because you're gonna help the football team win games,
Speaker 2: right right, Like That's where I'm coming at it. So
Speaker 2: and it's not like you don't have to shut your mouth,
Speaker 2: you don't have to be a mood like you don't
Speaker 2: have to you can talk, but like coming out and
Speaker 2: saying the things that he said, doesn't help him with
Speaker 2: the coaches.
Speaker 1: It just doesn't help me, right, And and yeah, you
Speaker 1: hope that that there's some middle ground there. I would say,
Speaker 1: here's kind of how I feel about Kendrick Borne. I
Speaker 1: just thought of this is like the perfect greatest sum
Speaker 1: up how I feel about Hendrick Borne.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, sometimes we like a player and then we
Speaker 1: hear like, yeah, he's good, but you can go get
Speaker 1: that guy elsewhere, Like yeah, I'm trying to think of
Speaker 1: an example of a player like that, like like on
Speaker 1: on another team.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, no, I know, like.
Speaker 1: I just had it and I lost it.
Speaker 2: That's fine, I know.
Speaker 1: But you know what I'm talking right right, Oh yeah, No,
Speaker 1: he's a good player, but like you can go get
Speaker 1: that same guy in frame, so you can find in
Speaker 1: the draft. I think Kendrick Bourne is like one step above. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can go find that guy. I'm not sure that
Speaker 1: you're easily replacing Kendrick Bourne. That's not to say that
Speaker 1: he's an elite player or anything like that, but there's
Speaker 1: not sometimes say oh, yeah, there's that guy on thirty
Speaker 1: two teams, right, that guy. Yeah he's a good player,
Speaker 1: but every team has a version of that guy. I
Speaker 1: don't know that there's thirty two versions of Kendrick Borne
Speaker 1: in the league.
Speaker 2: I don't think there are, so that that's that's a
Speaker 2: good way of putting it.
Speaker 1: Like Jimmy Garoppolo, Yeah, you can go find Jimmy Garoppolo. Right,
Speaker 1: you're not.
Speaker 2: Gonna Patriots might have found Jimmy garoppol.
Speaker 1: They have a lot of teams, might have the Viking,
Speaker 1: or there's there's this really good TikTok about like it's
Speaker 1: like the NFL is just okay, I'm not really either
Speaker 1: of people send this to me all at the time.
Speaker 1: It's like the narrator is like the NFL is a
Speaker 1: bunch of Kirk Cousins, and then it starts scrolling through
Speaker 1: pictures of quarterbacks. It's like Kirk Cousins and like old
Speaker 1: Kirk Cousins, and it's Matt Ryan, young Kirk Cousins, and
Speaker 1: it's Mac Jones and there's like this Kirk Cousins, this guy. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think Jimmy Garoppolo was broken Kirk Cousins in that video, right.
Speaker 1: You you couldn't do that with Kendrick Borne. You couldn't.
Speaker 1: He there's enough uniqueness in his game that you can
Speaker 1: take advantage of that.
Speaker 2: Okay, So that we covered kind of the veteran guys
Speaker 2: on the team and one that isn't that we continue
Speaker 2: to talk about because of obvious reasons. But I think
Speaker 2: the next question is, so they're gonna have the four
Speaker 2: veteran guys, whether it's Hopkins replacing one of the veteran
Speaker 2: guys that already exists, or just the four guys that
Speaker 2: they currently have in house. They're gonna have four veteran guys,
Speaker 2: and I'm including Taekwon in the veteran category.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even though he's the second year guy NFL experience
Speaker 1: like significant NFL.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The fifth receiver spot is I think gonna be
Speaker 2: up for grabs regardless of Hopkins comes here or not. Yes,
Speaker 2: So the question that boils down is is it tomorrow? Douglas.
Speaker 2: I don't think we can really say anything about Kishon
Speaker 2: Booty because he literally wasn't out there, Uh Malie Cuttingham,
Speaker 2: Trey Nixon or Emily who I thought kind of had
Speaker 2: a moment or two out there. Not gonna not like
Speaker 2: down the field, but a little jitterbug.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying like put ed Lee on the team
Speaker 1: right away, but put him on the practice squad. Maybe
Speaker 1: we revisit next year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, he's kind of like the new Trade Nixon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's he's gonna take Trey Nixon the.
Speaker 2: Out of that group, who do you think emerges as
Speaker 2: the most likely fifth receiver? You have to Mario Douglas.
Speaker 2: You have Malik Cuttingham, you have Booty, you have ed
Speaker 2: Lee so and like Trey Nixon still exists.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Trade Nixon.
Speaker 4: So, I.
Speaker 1: It's not Douglas because he's a gadget player. He's gonna
Speaker 1: be on the team, but he's gonna be his own
Speaker 1: sort of thing. He doesn't fit into this equation. Okay,
Speaker 1: if Kaishawn Booty is healthy, he's far and away the
Speaker 1: best receiver you just named. Yeah, but that's if he
Speaker 1: is healthy. That's the get's a capital, right. I think
Speaker 1: they'll probably like train. I don't know if they can
Speaker 1: keep Trey Nixon on the practice squad this year, like
Speaker 1: they can, but how it will work with all the
Speaker 1: other numbers, because I think he has enough accrude seasons
Speaker 1: now that he's he's limited to like there's they can
Speaker 1: only keep three or four guys with the amount of experience.
Speaker 1: I think they would default to Trey Nixon as the
Speaker 1: experienced player. But I can see making a run at it.
Speaker 1: I really can't, especially if things work where Trey Nixon
Speaker 1: is kept off the practice squad just by numbers and that.
Speaker 1: So it's like you have two players that you can
Speaker 1: just keep period like it doesn't matter. They could be
Speaker 1: fifteen year NFL veterans, they could play a thousand games.
Speaker 1: Then there's two more guys that I think it's like
Speaker 1: six years, and then I think there's one more guy
Speaker 1: that's like four years. Ye, so, but they change it
Speaker 1: every year. That's was like two years ago. The point being,
Speaker 1: there's a way I'm not saying Trey Nixon doesn't fit
Speaker 1: on the prast squad because he's not good enough. They're
Speaker 1: gonna want to keep, you know, one of the veteran linemen,
Speaker 1: like a James Farence, right, he takes up one of
Speaker 1: those spots if they want to do one of these
Speaker 1: weird things again where they're not gonna have a backup
Speaker 1: quarterback on the roster, They're not gonna have a kicker
Speaker 1: on the roster that takes up a spot, things like that.
Speaker 2: So I think I think Trace McSorley will be here
Speaker 2: on the practice squad.
Speaker 1: I'd like to find them, to find somebody better is
Speaker 1: I don't think Garrett Gilbert.
Speaker 2: I think Trace mcsorry will be on the practice squad.
Speaker 2: I think that they have seen some value in Trace
Speaker 2: McSorley behind the scenes, like a Matt Brian Hoyer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like twenty six and Garret Gilbert is a
Speaker 1: free agent. Anyway, he takes up one of those spots.
Speaker 1: So back to the point in him Kayshawn Booty is healthy.
Speaker 1: I think it's Kashawn Booty, if not probably Trey Nixon.
Speaker 1: But ed Lee certainly makes a run at it. And
Speaker 1: if it gets down to no love for Pop Douglas,
Speaker 1: I think he's so. I think he's gonna play more
Speaker 1: than both of them.
Speaker 2: But but he's still he's still got a factor into
Speaker 2: a position group.
Speaker 1: So I had him. No, he's going to be white.
Speaker 1: So this this guy's going on the practice squad, this
Speaker 1: guy we're talking about, I don't think this guy makes
Speaker 1: the roster. Got it to Mario Douglas makes the roster? Okay,
Speaker 1: So that's where we met.
Speaker 2: Where we're to. Mario Douglas is your guy that makes
Speaker 2: it to Mario Douglas is the guy that makes it.
Speaker 1: No, but the fifth receiver Tomorow Douglas makes the roster
Speaker 1: as Marcus Jones backup on offense. Okay, the fifth receiver
Speaker 1: is going to be somebody that is on the practice
Speaker 1: squad that gets elevated. So in that right there, I
Speaker 1: think gonna have four active receivers plus Douglas to start
Speaker 1: the season. Because so you're saying, if somebody goes down,
Speaker 1: who's the fourth receiver, it's Mike at Seck. Youre time Montomery, okay, right,
Speaker 1: and that this is the guy that when the depth
Speaker 1: gets tested. Remember Dante Montcreef twenty twenty season. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: talking about Dante Moncrief here, Okay, that's the guy I'm
Speaker 1: talking about. And it's Trey Nickson er ed Lely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm with you on that.
Speaker 1: And Malie Cunningham will hang around on the practice squad
Speaker 1: as a project player, but I don't think he sees
Speaker 1: NFL snaps this year.
Speaker 2: The best thing that Malie cunning him did the entire
Speaker 2: spring was run quarterback in nine and seven, like.
Speaker 1: He made one nice catch. I made one nice catch,
Speaker 1: no respect is one nice catch.
Speaker 2: He made one nice catch. I'm not taking it seriously.
Speaker 2: I've never taken it serious.
Speaker 1: But he did make one nice catch.
Speaker 2: Take it seriously, and people that are putting him on
Speaker 2: like their roster projections are are I he made one
Speaker 2: nice catch.
Speaker 1: How he respects his one nice catch. I don't disagree
Speaker 1: with anything you said, but respect us one nice.
Speaker 2: I respect his one nice catch for you. But what
Speaker 2: I really respected was watching nine on seven with him
Speaker 2: playing quarterback and uh them running Reid option with him
Speaker 2: at quarterback and Marty Mapu just like doing his thing linebacker.
Speaker 2: That that moved the needle for me.
Speaker 1: We know that his real value this year is a
Speaker 1: scout team quarterback. What happens down the road happens down
Speaker 1: the road.
Speaker 2: All right, tight ends, I know, Gasicki's call him a
Speaker 2: tight end, call him a wide receiver. Some people get
Speaker 2: hot and bothered when you call him the tight end
Speaker 2: because he's a big receiver.
Speaker 1: We literally just got in the YouTube comments in all
Speaker 1: caps Johnny and then Lumpkin.
Speaker 2: So Hunter Henry h looks like Hunter Henry looks fine.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna like spend too much time on guys
Speaker 2: like that. I was really really impressed, excited, optimistic about
Speaker 2: Mike Kasicki. I think that he brings a different level
Speaker 2: of two things. One explosiveness at that spot for sure.
Speaker 2: Like I think that he runs way way better than
Speaker 2: Hunter Henry does at this stage, you know, up the seam,
Speaker 2: across the field, things like that, And I think it's
Speaker 2: a it's it's nice to have a guy like Kasicki
Speaker 2: who's like very clearly a natural receiver, a natural route runner,
Speaker 2: catches the ball well, doesn't fight, it doesn't look clunky,
Speaker 2: doesn't look out of place like running routes and catching
Speaker 2: the football down the field. Just a very very big
Speaker 2: difference from John hu Smith. Like Johnny Smith just always
Speaker 2: looked stiff, robot, clunky, struggling to catch the football at times.
Speaker 2: Mi Kasiki looks like he's been catching a football since
Speaker 2: since he was six years old, right, and and running
Speaker 2: routes since he was eight.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: He's a very natural player. He's fluid. He's a little
Speaker 2: bit quicker than I thought he would be too, not
Speaker 2: necessarily like jitterbug underneath quickness, but that ability to like
Speaker 2: you know, threaten leverage and then and then cut out
Speaker 2: of a break up the field a little bit. I
Speaker 2: did a nice job of that. A couple of times.
Speaker 2: I really think that you you mentioned the seven hundred
Speaker 2: and eighty yards earlier in the show. I think was
Speaker 2: his career high in Miami. I think that's in play.
Speaker 2: I do, and I I would even I don't know.
Speaker 2: I would even go as far to say that if
Speaker 2: they get it into a lot more eleven personnel on
Speaker 2: third down, I would. I would go as far to
Speaker 2: say that Mikasiki might pass Hunter Henry this year. I
Speaker 2: think I think they might both be on the field.
Speaker 2: But if you get Hopkins, you have Juju. I guess
Speaker 2: that could be the twelve.
Speaker 1: Person twelve personnel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I guess, But I you know me, I
Speaker 2: would love to get the speed on the field.
Speaker 1: I know, but I think that's gonna be it. No.
Speaker 1: I was impressed by Gasiki too. You kind of put
Speaker 1: it better there. But it's that thing I talked about
Speaker 1: it with Bourn where we're not really watching these guys
Speaker 1: in yards after the catch situations, but you're seeing them
Speaker 1: do things that translate. And I didn't realize Kasiki, like
Speaker 1: you said, the agility right, the quickness, it doesn't come
Speaker 1: across as much on tape as a dozen person I
Speaker 1: didn't realize quite how quick it is close athletes. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: until I got to see him close up. So that's
Speaker 1: that's that's fun to see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's gonna be a good player for him. Lumpkin,
Speaker 2: Johnny Lumpkin. The way I had sum up Johnny Lumpkin
Speaker 2: in the spring is that I wasn't expecting anything from
Speaker 2: Johnny Lumpkin in the spring. But when he wears sixty
Speaker 2: five and white, you think he's attack.
Speaker 1: He's a tackle.
Speaker 2: You think he's a tackle. He's a big freakin' dude.
Speaker 2: And we'll see when the pads come on what that
Speaker 2: looks like. Anthony Firksker made some tough catches. Maybe a
Speaker 2: little bit, Yeah, he can a little bit. I think
Speaker 2: two can play in the slot. I'm sure he can
Speaker 2: play a little bit out of the backfield. They're not
Speaker 2: quite into that yet, with the run game and things
Speaker 2: like that. I at the moment would be more inclined
Speaker 2: to think that Ferksker mikes the roster as a tight
Speaker 2: end three. If they're gonna carry three tight ends over Lumpkin.
Speaker 2: We'll see what happens when the pads come on, But
Speaker 2: more than likely I think that both those guys are
Speaker 2: on the practice squad. If somebody gets hurt, there's a
Speaker 2: game plan that they want to have a wrinkle, right,
Speaker 2: that's when those guys get out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm kind of in that same spot kind of
Speaker 1: like we talked about with the receivers, I think they
Speaker 1: keep the two tight ends.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: They'll have Ferkser, Lumpkin, Scotti, Washington who they like. I
Speaker 1: think Bill really likes, Bill spoke highly of and honestly
Speaker 1: Matt Sokol like. So that's what four options you have,
Speaker 1: and they'll promote those guys as needed throughout the season.
Speaker 1: Those guys will be practice squad call ups, so they'll
Speaker 1: have a third tight end active on game days. And
Speaker 1: then if and when he gets the point, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody goes on ir they want to keep a third
Speaker 1: tight end on the roster more regularly, then they'll they'll
Speaker 1: sign somebody, but I think to start the season it'll
Speaker 1: be mostly practice squad. Copps his third tight end, and
Speaker 1: you know, they're all kind of they're all slightly different players.
Speaker 1: Washington's a hybrid wide receiver, So Washington's interesting.
Speaker 2: I don't know what to make of Washington because I
Speaker 2: just he he and I I want to say this
Speaker 2: for what my I'm writing tomorrow, but I'm gonna say
Speaker 2: it here too. He makes these above the rim catches
Speaker 2: that like remind me of like Rob Williams catching an alley,
Speaker 2: you like, where his catch radius is like literally insane.
Speaker 1: Do you know who he reminds me of? Do you
Speaker 1: remember Tim Wright?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I remember him, right, But I feel like that Scottie
Speaker 2: Washington has like even more of a vertical element tim
Speaker 2: Wright does. He's a bas he's playing basketball. He's literally
Speaker 2: catching a lot.
Speaker 1: Well remember the play he made last year. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's but.
Speaker 2: But he's not I don't know if he's good enough
Speaker 2: at anything else to make an NFL roster Like that's
Speaker 2: cool in all, and he's gonna have these like highlight
Speaker 2: reel plays in practice. You know, Devin mccorty said he
Speaker 2: made him on scout team last year, But is that
Speaker 2: an NFL rosterable player.
Speaker 1: Well, if let's say you keep on the practice squad,
Speaker 1: yeah right, you're having some trouble in the red zone
Speaker 1: early in the year, Yeah, it's possible. Yeah, elevate him.
Speaker 1: So that that's my point, Like, I think him he's
Speaker 1: kind of a hybrid tight end receiver. Yeah, Ferks, there's
Speaker 1: a hybrid tight end fullback for Lumpkin's a hybrid tight
Speaker 1: end lineman, right, and Matt Solkole's basically just back up. Right,
Speaker 1: He's basically just a backup Hunter hands. I think it's fair.
Speaker 1: The point, well, he's wearing eighty seven, but we don't
Speaker 1: think it's the other guy. No, The point being, they
Speaker 1: kind of have all the bases covered there. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: they can kind of go maybe one week, Hey, we
Speaker 1: really need to run the ball this week. We're gonna
Speaker 1: elevate Lumpkin. Another week, Hey, they have a really good
Speaker 1: red zone defense. We're gonna elevate Scotty Washington another week. Hey,
Speaker 1: you know, Hunter, Henry's coming into this game a little
Speaker 1: banged up. We're gonna elevate Matt Sokle in case you
Speaker 1: need him. I think they keep all those guys on
Speaker 1: the practice squad, so it's four players, three elevations each.
Speaker 1: That gets it through twelve weeks. Yeah, so that's pretty
Speaker 1: and by then you kind of have a really good
Speaker 1: idea of what you're gonna be at.
Speaker 2: If it gets to the point where somebody really is
Speaker 2: playing well, there's always injuries, there's always something that opens
Speaker 2: a roster spot and you sign it.
Speaker 1: So I I think that's what that third tight end
Speaker 1: spot is gonna look like it's gonna be on the
Speaker 1: practice squad. I think I honestly wouldn't be surprised if
Speaker 1: all four of those guys different games. But if all
Speaker 1: four of those guys are active for at least one
Speaker 1: game at some point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Scottie Washington is just a He's an
Speaker 2: interesting player. I don't know what he is. I don't
Speaker 2: know if, like I said, I don't know if he's
Speaker 2: Is he well rounded enough to really make an NFL
Speaker 2: roster yet? I probably not. But some of those catches
Speaker 2: that he makes above the rim are ridiculous.
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this. They don't who's their
Speaker 1: backup X behind Parker, right, taking Hopkins out of the question.
Speaker 2: Right now, Yeah, get sicky. I guess, like, could it
Speaker 2: be Washington? I guess yeah. I mean, like he's a
Speaker 2: quality They don't have a ton of depth there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he might be, and I'm not necessarily I guess they
Speaker 2: would probably naturally use Taekwon. They're like if if you're
Speaker 2: talking about like true wide receiver eleven persons.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying, like, so you're thinking because Bill said
Speaker 1: that Washington's kind of a hybrid. Yeah, when you look
Speaker 1: at him in the context, in that context and their
Speaker 1: lack of big, true outside wide receivers, Yeah, there might
Speaker 1: be some snaps for him there too.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that that's like a great thing,
Speaker 1: but that's just the way the rosters. As I said before,
Speaker 1: the depth falls off quick. I like what they have
Speaker 1: at the top the depth chart, but it falls off quick.
Speaker 1: That could be a spot where Scotty Washington factors in.
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about the lineman, offensive and defensive line,
Speaker 2: and the reason why I put them together is because
Speaker 2: without pads, I am not going to evaluate we twelve minutes,
Speaker 2: we can we can go a little bit.
Speaker 1: I was ready for you to say we're gonna do
Speaker 1: defense next week.
Speaker 2: No, we can do this a little bit quicker and
Speaker 2: a little bit go a little long here, offensive and
Speaker 2: defensive line kind of you know, we're talking more about
Speaker 2: like who's playing where than anything in this time of
Speaker 2: year than really getting into evaluation. My one take on
Speaker 2: the offensive line that you know, we've taught, everybody's written
Speaker 2: about it, We've talked a lot about it. Guys. You know,
Speaker 2: right now Calvin Anderson's getting the reps at left tackle
Speaker 2: at Trent Brown situation. We can talk maybe next week
Speaker 2: more about Trent Brown and in the fallout and all
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. Uh, Riley Reef, Connor McDermott right
Speaker 2: tackle kind of seemed like Connor McDermott might have gotten
Speaker 2: more reps with the with the true starters with the
Speaker 2: ones later on in Minnie Campton. Riley Reef will see
Speaker 2: what that holds if not, if it does or not.
Speaker 2: My question with the offensive line, and you know me,
Speaker 2: I've I've been pretty steadfast that Mike On when he
Speaker 2: was at guard and should stay at guard. Yeah, And
Speaker 2: I love the idea now that with Cole Strange in
Speaker 2: his second year, that could be a really rock solid
Speaker 2: interior trio the three of those guys across Andrews and
Speaker 2: in the middle of Strange and On. If this Trent
Speaker 2: Brown thing goes south, I am not ruling out kicking
Speaker 2: on one who back outside either way, I wouldn't rule
Speaker 2: it out because if they really feel strongly about either
Speaker 2: rookie or I guess we can throw Bill Murray in there.
Speaker 2: But I'm not seriously taking I'm not taking Bill Murray
Speaker 2: seriously yet. But Mafi in particular intrigues me because he's
Speaker 2: basically got the same exact body type as Mike on Winnu. Right,
Speaker 2: He's just a block of powerful block at guard. Jake
Speaker 2: Andrews had a couple of reps at guard too, you know,
Speaker 2: up with the ones. If you feel really good about
Speaker 2: either one of those guys at guard and you're a
Speaker 2: mess at tackle, why not, you know, why not think
Speaker 2: about it? With on Wnu kicking him back outside that
Speaker 2: might solve a spot, probably right tackle. You know, he
Speaker 2: probably goes back out to the right side. And now
Speaker 2: between Trent Brown, Calvin Anderson, Ryley Reef, and Connor McDermott,
Speaker 2: you have to come up with one left tackle. Right,
Speaker 2: You got four guys to find one left tackle. Can
Speaker 2: you do it? I think so. So that sort of
Speaker 2: where I'm at. I'm as worried about it tackle as
Speaker 2: everybody else is. My fear, though, is not necessarily like,
Speaker 2: oh God, they're gonna get Mac Jones killed and this
Speaker 2: is going to be a mess. My fear now I'm
Speaker 2: not there because I think that they're coaching will be
Speaker 2: good enough to mask it. My problem is is that
Speaker 2: I would much rather Bill O'Brien in his bag in
Speaker 2: other areas and not having to coach around.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's right, that's a fair way to put it.
Speaker 1: I'm with you on that. First of all. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: just even if Trent Brown is one tackle and he
Speaker 1: can play either side, and that's the value in this
Speaker 1: because if between Calvin Anderson, Riley Reef and Conraich Dermott,
Speaker 1: Calvin Anderson is the best player, you can still put
Speaker 1: your best five out there. But if Trent Brown is
Speaker 1: one guy, which he generally doesn't play a full season
Speaker 1: you still need, you're still going with.
Speaker 2: Two.
Speaker 1: I don't want to say journeyman tackles because they're young,
Speaker 1: but like two guys who've been spot starters. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: a guy entering his age thirty five season in Riley Reeve,
Speaker 1: and I don't feel great about that. I'm almost at
Speaker 1: the point where not almost I am. I kinda want
Speaker 1: to see them sign DJ Flucker Evan. I do not
Speaker 1: necessarily because not necessarily because I think he's definitely the
Speaker 1: answer or anything. I really don't think he is. But yeah,
Speaker 1: if you're gonna take a bunch of fifty to fifty shots.
Speaker 1: The more shots, yeah, have the higher chance he hit
Speaker 1: on something. The other thing about Flucker is if Mafi's
Speaker 1: not ready, you still have the option to kick mike
Speaker 1: O and Wenu out to right tackle. And you have
Speaker 1: a guy that's played right guard in the NFL and Flucker. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he can certainly play that role as well. I
Speaker 1: think either way on win who should be considered it
Speaker 1: right tackle?
Speaker 2: Me too.
Speaker 1: He's certainly good out.
Speaker 2: I hate that, like I've been really reluctant on that
Speaker 2: right but I think it's it's.
Speaker 1: It's clearly your best five if he's at right tackle. Mafy,
Speaker 1: I know he can't really gauge offensive lineman thus far.
Speaker 1: The one thing I'll say from Mafi at six two
Speaker 1: three thirty, he moves really well. He gets around. They
Speaker 1: were doing some things with like screens and stuff where
Speaker 1: he had a poll and he's getting on front. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and his footwork solid. All of that that doesn't change
Speaker 1: a ton when you introduce contact, So it's it feels
Speaker 1: worth a shot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. It just goes back to something that
Speaker 2: that Scar would always talk about too, is just your
Speaker 2: best five might not always be what you thought it was.
Speaker 2: Like you know, like it's like, all right, you know,
Speaker 2: what's our best five? It might be on WHENU at
Speaker 2: tackle and Mafi at guard, right or.
Speaker 1: That's what That's what I think. I really think it
Speaker 1: might be right.
Speaker 2: And it kind of goes back to twenty one when
Speaker 2: On when he went to the bench and Ted Carris
Speaker 2: came in and everybody was like, what the hell right?
Speaker 2: It was just but it just worked. It worked. The
Speaker 2: continuity was there. You know, they were playing on a string.
Speaker 2: They were playing well. And even though Ted Carris wasn't
Speaker 2: necessarily a more talented or better lineman than Mike On, WHENU,
Speaker 2: the five man unit worked together right. And I feel
Speaker 2: like maybe that that could be the case with kicking
Speaker 2: on when you back out to tackle. I I thought
Speaker 2: originally that Jake Andrews might be a rookie red shirt,
Speaker 2: you know, ir type guy Foxborough. FLU still think that's
Speaker 2: maybe possible, but he he might be the backup center
Speaker 2: right away, and so that that would be interesting to see,
Speaker 2: if you know, between Russy and Farrence, can he beat
Speaker 2: out either one of those guys for the backup center job.
Speaker 2: I think it's possible. Uh, Do you want to keep
Speaker 2: going or do you want to want to punt defense
Speaker 2: next week.
Speaker 1: Just one quick observation, Well, I want to get into
Speaker 1: the defense, but yeah, I can do defensive line real quick.
Speaker 1: One thought, Christian Barmore looks really good. He looks healthy.
Speaker 1: I don't think he was healthy when he came back
Speaker 1: last year after a strong start to the season.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I like that he's been here too. Yeah, he's
Speaker 2: been here all off season.
Speaker 1: If he's healthy, that's a great sign.
Speaker 2: Yeah sign. Yeah, he's been here all off season, which
Speaker 2: is good. A couple of things for me on the
Speaker 2: defensive line, why I mean I count Keon Wise's defensive
Speaker 2: line man. He's playing up on the edge a little
Speaker 2: bit too. He I wasn't like too high on that
Speaker 2: draft pick, as you were. I'm still not totally sold.
Speaker 2: But he's he's winning me over. He's winning me over slowly.
Speaker 2: I think the one thing that I that he has
Speaker 2: a little bit more first step juice than maybe I
Speaker 2: gave him credit for. I like his flexibility to stand
Speaker 2: up or rush with his hand of the dirt. I
Speaker 2: think standing up is probably like a first down thing.
Speaker 2: I don't want him doing it all the time. I
Speaker 2: don't think he at two eighty five. He's pretty heavy
Speaker 2: to be doing that, you know, in space and dropping
Speaker 2: and things like that. I don't necessarily see that as
Speaker 2: part of his game. But when he rushes off the
Speaker 2: edge and gets downhill and converts that speed to power,
Speaker 2: He's got the length, he's got the hand power, he's
Speaker 2: got some explosiveness. He's right in the rotation. To me,
Speaker 2: you know he's going to be right in the rotation.
Speaker 2: Is he going to be at every down player out
Speaker 2: of the gate? And no, but I think he's going
Speaker 2: to be right in that forty to fifty percent range
Speaker 2: rotating in with the other guys. The other thing i'd
Speaker 2: say about the defensive line, what is Lawrence Guy's leverage? Like, like,
Speaker 2: please tell like, so top, tell me what his left.
Speaker 1: Here's my theory and there's no inside reporting nothing.
Speaker 2: This is just a guess.
Speaker 1: He's thirty three years old, yeah, down here last year.
Speaker 1: I wonder if he's thinking about retiring. And this is
Speaker 1: simply just well, you know, if you want me to
Speaker 1: come back, you know you gotta Before he walks away,
Speaker 1: He'm just gonna see ifn get a little more money. Basically,
Speaker 1: that's it, and he has all the right in the
Speaker 1: world to do.
Speaker 2: That's to knock, but like I'm not knocking him or
Speaker 2: like crapping on him for trying to know.
Speaker 1: Football wise, he has very little leverage. He's thirty three
Speaker 1: years old. Yeah, he had a down year last year.
Speaker 2: He was a he's a gap plugging two gap.
Speaker 1: The Patriots have other guys that can do what he does.
Speaker 1: They just drafted one. I think on White could certainly
Speaker 1: handle some of those responsibilities.
Speaker 2: So you know why has it's gotten better against the run? Right?
Speaker 2: They open up far more splashy than he is.
Speaker 1: They open up two point seven million dollars against the
Speaker 1: cap if they move on from him. Yeah, so item
Speaker 1: off my ross projection. What I think his leverages is
Speaker 1: he went to them and said, look, I'm thinking about retiring.
Speaker 1: If you can convince me financially to stay around, I'm
Speaker 1: happy to play another year. But if not, I think
Speaker 1: I'm done. And players do that from time to time.
Speaker 1: You see players do that that you know they're fifty
Speaker 1: to fifty on if they want to play another year,
Speaker 1: So why not ask for more money if you're gonna
Speaker 1: leave anywhere?
Speaker 2: Right, But if it's a million bucks, then like whatever.
Speaker 2: But if I'm the Patriots I'm not kidding Laurence.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's sitting there saying, damn it, I
Speaker 1: deserve to be paid more than I'm getting. Like, I
Speaker 1: don't think it's that. I think it's like, I'm not
Speaker 1: going back for what they're paying me. Yeah.
Speaker 2: My fear is is that he thinks that he looks
Speaker 2: at Davon Godshaw and is like, why am I not
Speaker 2: getting paid like Davon?
Speaker 1: That's not like just personally, that doesn't seem to be
Speaker 1: like the kind of guy he is.
Speaker 2: I don't know that's it, like the person his last
Speaker 2: off season, last training camp that he was a little
Speaker 2: bit disgruntled about something. And I don't know, I think
Speaker 2: that Lawrence guy, I'm not. Look, he's a twenty ten
Speaker 2: decade team Patriot player.
Speaker 1: Oh, he's a great player, and he was here, great player,
Speaker 1: incredible in the community.
Speaker 2: Really not trying to like crap all over him. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just for the role that he plays, and for
Speaker 2: his age and for his effectiveness last year. I just
Speaker 2: don't see what he's done to deserve a raise. And
Speaker 2: that's that's no.
Speaker 1: I'm with you, and I it even if he did,
Speaker 1: it doesn't make a ton of sense. Football wise to
Speaker 1: do it, because, like I said, they have other guys
Speaker 1: that can do that. I think it's just, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: not outside of him leaving, outside of him saying I'm
Speaker 1: going to retire. Yeah, there's really no leverage for him all.
Speaker 2: Right, linebackers, h Jawan Bentley looks like Jawan Bentley another guy.
Speaker 2: We're just gonna kind of chalk up to that. Before
Speaker 2: I get into.
Speaker 1: This, I was gonna say, there's really only one lineback
Speaker 1: we need to talk.
Speaker 2: Before we get into my guy. Mac Wilson is playing again. Yes, yes, Okay,
Speaker 2: that's a point. So Mapoo and we're gonna get into
Speaker 2: him in a second, and I'm gonna gush for twenty minutes.
Speaker 1: And then I'll do another twenty Sorry.
Speaker 2: Mac Wilson is uh, he was really the one repping
Speaker 2: most of the time next to Juwan Bentley, like Mapu is.
Speaker 2: Still I think they're still trying to figure out if
Speaker 2: he's a safety, if he's a linebacker.
Speaker 1: Where they bet think, Well, there were time all three
Speaker 1: of them were on the field. There a couple of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think that for the most part, Mac
Speaker 2: Wilson's back in the rotation or at least getting the
Speaker 2: chance to be back in the rotation. Also, Je Devai,
Speaker 2: who I think is a important player to an extent.
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you why. You're right.
Speaker 1: No, you're not wrong.
Speaker 2: They behind Judah and Nuja unless you count Keon White
Speaker 2: as an edge. I know you hate that outside linebacker
Speaker 2: July Devi is the only other guy that can play
Speaker 2: on the line of scrimmage really out of that group.
Speaker 1: Andthrey Jennings, well, I'm saying they have seen I have
Speaker 1: seen absolutely nothing out of and so I wanted to
Speaker 1: ask you that I don't even know if either one
Speaker 1: of those guys practiced for the well the last two weeks,
Speaker 1: because this is the big question to me. Perkins R.
Speaker 1: I didn't notice them at all. Jennings I noticed because
Speaker 1: he got in two fights.
Speaker 2: Good good, So that's what we want.
Speaker 1: But the thing is he is one of the few
Speaker 1: guys that can play the true edge like that. He
Speaker 1: did play a key role last year when I was
Speaker 1: doing my my Row projection. I was putting it together
Speaker 1: last night, and this is how I have it right now.
Speaker 1: There is still so much time for this to change.
Speaker 1: The last decision I made came down to mac Wilson,
Speaker 1: Anthony Jennings. I went with Jennings because, again, he was
Speaker 1: a starter last year. Mack Wilson didn't play defense for
Speaker 1: the final five weeks of the year. I kind of
Speaker 1: defaulted back to that. But if you wanted to, if
Speaker 1: you want to say no, you're wrong, it's gonna be
Speaker 1: mack Wilson over Anthony Jennings.
Speaker 2: I think it almost has to be mac Wilson just
Speaker 2: because of a ray Qua McMillan's injury. Like, you're gonna
Speaker 2: go into this season with the only guys with NFL
Speaker 2: experience as true inside linebackers being Bentley and I guess Tavia,
Speaker 2: who's kind of like a cross hybrid between outside and inside.
Speaker 2: There's just not a lot of depth there. If you
Speaker 2: don't have mac Wilson.
Speaker 1: How often are they gonna play linebackers?
Speaker 2: I think so?
Speaker 1: In fair your point, I in my it's up ninety
Speaker 1: five the Sports of dot Com. I brought up your
Speaker 1: point basically by saying they're gonna play six defensive acts
Speaker 1: a ton in maybe seven, so I don't remember. In
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, they just didn't play linebackers. Juwan Bentley, I
Speaker 1: think play it had like a sixty percent usage rate
Speaker 1: that year and nobody else over twenty Averredy Jennings. Actually
Speaker 1: people forget him. They talk about how he didn't do
Speaker 1: anything until his third year. He was their second most
Speaker 1: used linebacker as a rookie. It's like twenty percent. You
Speaker 1: might see something. Oh you're not because Matt Judon is
Speaker 1: now in the picture, but you might see something like
Speaker 1: that again, where there's just not gonna be a ton
Speaker 1: of linebackers on the field this year. I'm counting. I'm counting.
Speaker 1: Mapoo is his own thing. I'm not including him linebackers.
Speaker 2: Mapoo is his own thing. Yeah he is. I It's
Speaker 2: been a minute since I've been so excited about a
Speaker 2: Patriots rookie in the spring. I think the biggest thing
Speaker 2: with Mapoo is not he plays fast. He plays sideline
Speaker 2: the sideline, He's got the range of explosedness. But the
Speaker 2: biggest thing to me is his anticipation and his instincts.
Speaker 2: Ability to just read things out and click and close
Speaker 2: and really see it and go get the football quickly.
Speaker 2: Is just a breath of fresh air. I mean, they've
Speaker 2: just needed it so badly for so many years now.
Speaker 2: This to me really feels like such a big difference maker.
Speaker 2: If he's playing again, I will until the cows come home,
Speaker 2: continue to pound this. If he's playing at the second
Speaker 2: level of the defense, it's a huge, huge difference maker.
Speaker 2: If they're gonna mess with it and play them at
Speaker 2: safety and play them in like a Kyle Duggar type
Speaker 2: of role. I can see that that's gonna have overlap
Speaker 2: to what I want him to do, but it's not.
Speaker 2: It's not fully what I want him to do, right,
Speaker 2: And I think the biggest thing for him is, like
Speaker 2: you know, all right, spy low hole zones like against
Speaker 2: mobile quarterbacks in there, and man the Cover two hole
Speaker 2: in the middle of the field, right like the Tampa
Speaker 2: two linebacker in the middle of the field, the hook
Speaker 2: defender in Cover three, like those are high stress coverage
Speaker 2: assignments in the middle of the field and roles in
Speaker 2: the middle of the field in the passing game that
Speaker 2: he can just do so well for them. And I
Speaker 2: just look across the league and all the those types
Speaker 2: of guys like the Fred Warners and the Matt Milanos
Speaker 2: and you know, Deon Jones before he started to fall off,
Speaker 2: And that's that's what I continue to see. Mapu's ideal role,
Speaker 2: his ability to like go from the middle of the
Speaker 2: field and they throw the football in the flat to
Speaker 2: the running back or something like that, and he can
Speaker 2: just shoot out of a cannon and get to it
Speaker 2: and make a play on the football. They I don't
Speaker 2: like maybe since like prime Jamie Collins, like maybe I
Speaker 2: don't even know, like well.
Speaker 1: Liked compare him to Jamie Collins and Dante hie Town.
Speaker 2: I just well, yeah, that's a little bit much. But
Speaker 2: I just don't know where if they've had that player before.
Speaker 2: So Mapu is my biggest star of the offseason program. Uh.
Speaker 2: He looks to me like the missing piece in a
Speaker 2: lot of ways to this defense because he gives them
Speaker 2: speed and range at the second level of the field
Speaker 2: from the linebacker spot that they just haven't had. I
Speaker 2: really feel like he's a guy and I don't want
Speaker 2: to like put I'm not putting it all on him
Speaker 2: to go stop Josh Allen by himself, but like, to me,
Speaker 2: he's exactly the type of guy that that could stop me.
Speaker 1: He allows everybody else to more focus on their roles
Speaker 1: in that game plan. The discussion, debate, argument, whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it. We had like three four weeks
Speaker 1: ago about what Marte mop who was going to be
Speaker 1: and you had all these lofty ideals and ideas and
Speaker 1: I basically said, yeah, it'd be great, but they won't
Speaker 1: do it. Yeah, yeah, you won you one. You're right,
Speaker 1: they're doing it.
Speaker 2: There you go. He admitted. I was right.
Speaker 1: You're right.
Speaker 2: You were right.
Speaker 1: I didn't think they will I was wrong. I was
Speaker 1: wrong more than you were right. You just said you
Speaker 1: said you wanted them to do it. I said, that's great,
Speaker 1: but they won't turn that.
Speaker 2: They did. Yeah, So they they did some. I mentioned
Speaker 2: it earlier when we were briefly talking about Maie cutting him.
Speaker 2: They did some nine on seven in this camp where
Speaker 2: they were they were practicing against read option and McSorley
Speaker 2: was running it a little bit too, as the quarterback
Speaker 2: to read option quarterback. First of all, just on on
Speaker 2: a on one note, I love that they're doing that
Speaker 2: already because clearly they recognize that they're going to see
Speaker 2: this a lot now and they're gonna have they have
Speaker 2: to practice this in the spring like this is something
Speaker 2: that they had to drill out of the gate. So
Speaker 2: I love that they're doing that just because they're going
Speaker 2: to see so much of it. But the second thing
Speaker 2: is is watching uh Mapu just be the weak side chaser,
Speaker 2: if you will. That awesome, just like awesome that he
Speaker 2: just like watching him go out there. And I talked
Speaker 2: to him and I asked him about, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: what it was like to do that and and whatnot,
Speaker 2: and he just mentioned that he felt like in college
Speaker 2: he had to take over, like he had to do
Speaker 2: everything all the time, and in the pros he's able
Speaker 2: to just do what he's good at, right and just
Speaker 2: like focus on his job and his assignment. I really
Speaker 2: am very excited about Mapu. I think he's gonna be
Speaker 2: a big time player for them. Let's talk about the
Speaker 2: safety because it kind of goes hand in hand with yeah,
Speaker 2: I think. Yeah. So I know that there's a lot
Speaker 2: to be made about the disguising. There's a lot to
Speaker 2: be made about all the mixing and matching and who's
Speaker 2: playing where and you know, smoking mirrors, things like that,
Speaker 2: spin the dial. I I like it too. At the
Speaker 2: end of the day, I think that it's ultimately though,
Speaker 2: going to come down to, you know, our football players
Speaker 2: against your football players. They can do all the disguise,
Speaker 2: and they can do all the rotating, they can do
Speaker 2: all the spin the dial that they want, but you know,
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, it's going to come
Speaker 2: down to our best against your best, and who's that
Speaker 2: you know. Finding that right sort of marriage between all
Speaker 2: of these different similar players, honestly similar body types, I
Speaker 2: think it's going to be important to me. It all
Speaker 2: starts with Kyle Dugger, Like, I think Kyle Dugger is
Speaker 2: the center piece of it all because I think Kyle
Speaker 2: Duggar is really the true guy that I trust the
Speaker 2: most and kind of want the most to be in
Speaker 2: the back end at free safety and then obviously spin
Speaker 2: and move off of that as well. I'm also really excited,
Speaker 2: you know. I know everybody had a lot of good
Speaker 2: things to say from Bill about Jabriel Peppers and things
Speaker 2: like that will get to him too. I'm really excited
Speaker 2: about Jaalen. This this move for Jalen Mills. I think
Speaker 2: that for Jalen Mills, this is gonna be better both
Speaker 2: for him and for the football team to be playing
Speaker 2: more of like a slot safety hybrid role. We saw
Speaker 2: him playing some on the tight ends, we saw him
Speaker 2: playing someone with a slot, we saw him playing some
Speaker 2: deep It just seems like that's just like a natural
Speaker 2: spot for him, Like he just looks more comfortable there,
Speaker 2: looks more effective there, and it does give them still
Speaker 2: that flexibility to rotate him into the boundary to really
Speaker 2: spit it on a quarterback if they want to do that.
Speaker 2: It also gives them a flexibility if somebody gets hurt
Speaker 2: at corner, that he can still go back out to corner, right,
Speaker 2: So he's a only valuable player and all this as well, Uh,
Speaker 2: that's kind of the safeties to me. You know, Pepper's
Speaker 2: it looks good and it looks like he's going to
Speaker 2: be a contributor, but they're still going to have to
Speaker 2: figure out communication is going to be obviously key in
Speaker 2: there in the back end, and at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, somebody is gonna have to play center fields,
Speaker 2: you know, and who is the best at that I
Speaker 2: still think remains to be seen.
Speaker 1: Well, So I fought it for so long because they've
Speaker 1: they've said for years pretty much as long as we've
Speaker 1: been covering the team that you know, we're not corners,
Speaker 1: we're not safeties, we're defensive backs. And I've struggled as
Speaker 1: much as possible to from covering the team point of
Speaker 1: view to kind of split them we can't.
Speaker 2: We can't this year. We can't. They're they're defensive backs.
Speaker 1: Because to get to your point about the safeties, especially
Speaker 1: with the communication, who's their longest tenured defensive back, it's
Speaker 1: Jonathan Jones. Yeah, he might be the answer there. And
Speaker 1: we saw them get into this sum later in the spring.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I still want them in the I know you do.
Speaker 1: But there's there's a chain reaction here. Christian is also
Speaker 1: is gonna be one boundary corner.
Speaker 2: That's a thing. Yeah. If Jack Jones, yeah, he's my
Speaker 2: other big, big star.
Speaker 1: So if and he was good, If Jack Jones can
Speaker 1: hold it down on the other side, and by the way,
Speaker 1: they're a little thin at boundary corner, i'd like maybe
Speaker 1: it's Jalen Mills.
Speaker 2: I think the guy, the fourth guy.
Speaker 1: Okay, but if if so, your Christians was on one side,
Speaker 1: if Jack Jones can be the guy on the other
Speaker 1: that allows you to play Jonathan Jones is the deep
Speaker 1: safety who can use his experience as football IQ. But
Speaker 1: just listen to me for a second. Just listen to there.
Speaker 1: You kind of glossed over all the weird stuff they're
Speaker 1: doing with like and weird in a good way. Different
Speaker 1: guys lining up in different spots and all these exotic rotations.
Speaker 1: They didn't do an install.
Speaker 2: They picked up.
Speaker 1: Where they left off last year. They were on like
Speaker 1: step six when everybody else on step one. To do
Speaker 1: all that, everybody has to be on the same page.
Speaker 1: Nobody's gonna be better than that at that than Jonathan Jones.
Speaker 1: If Jack Jones can be your second boundary corner, Jonathan
Speaker 1: Jones can play on the back end, Marcus Jones in
Speaker 1: the slot that allows you to use Kyle Duggar, Adrian Phillips,
Speaker 1: and Marte mop who as basically jokers, not that's a
Speaker 1: good Jokers natural football term like the Joker card and depth.
Speaker 1: Jokers wild can be anything. They Ultimately they should play
Speaker 1: everybody everywhere. We talked about it on offense, how like
Speaker 1: you can kind of disguise things with MIKEA. Sicki and
Speaker 1: Tom Montgomery. That should be tenfold on defense. Once you
Speaker 1: could have the same personnel out there one snap, the
Speaker 1: next snap, it's the exact same personnel, but everybody's in
Speaker 1: a different position. You can do that and realistic. They
Speaker 1: should do it well, and they should do it. But
Speaker 1: what I just described that is an elite elite secondary.
Speaker 1: If all of those guys can live up to what
Speaker 1: we think they can.
Speaker 2: It's a good group. I just I'm not quite as
Speaker 2: high on the disguising part of it as everybody else is,
Speaker 2: because my at the end of the day, Josh Allen,
Speaker 2: Patrick Mahoomer, this is just let me finish. These guys
Speaker 2: are immune to it. But remembering what will happen is no, no,
Speaker 2: what will happen is is they'll spin the freaking dial.
Speaker 2: They'll break the thing off right against Josh Allen and
Speaker 2: he'll freaking hold the ball and they won't get him
Speaker 2: on the ground and he'll turn it into playground bullshit
Speaker 2: and it won't matter.
Speaker 1: So two things right, One? Three things nice swear you
Speaker 1: did two?
Speaker 2: Sorry, Matt.
Speaker 1: That's why Marte mop who's here, right? We just talked
Speaker 1: about that.
Speaker 2: I don't think there is the best quarterback you. I
Speaker 2: don't think the disguising works. I don't against Mahomes maybe not.
Speaker 2: Do you remember that when we did the shows before
Speaker 2: the Bills game last year, you were talking about spin
Speaker 2: the dial and it didn't work.
Speaker 1: No, you came on the next week and said it worked.
Speaker 2: It didn't work.
Speaker 1: You came on the next week and said it work.
Speaker 1: When you said that they had him confused, they did.
Speaker 1: They had him second guessing a little bit. Maybe they
Speaker 1: forced him in that second game. The second game is
Speaker 1: the special teams touchdowns. That first game they held him
Speaker 1: the twenty four points. And you're gonna sit here and
Speaker 1: tell me because they ran the clock in the second
Speaker 1: half because they could because the offense didn't do anything.
Speaker 1: The offense needs to be better for them to beat
Speaker 1: the Bills, period, it does. That has nothing to do
Speaker 1: with the defense. The spinning the die of work. I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna sit here and say it doesn't work. It
Speaker 1: works because I also don't think they're gonna spin the
Speaker 1: dial on the conventional sets. I think this defense is
Speaker 1: capable of doing some things we've never seen done before. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll go that far.
Speaker 2: I guess, to me, what I'm more excited about, and
Speaker 2: I don't disagree, But what about all the versatility and
Speaker 2: the spin the I don't disagree. I just think what
Speaker 2: I'm more excited about is that the overall talent level
Speaker 2: of the group is improving, and it starts with Christian
Speaker 2: Gonzales obviously, who's out there as the number one corner
Speaker 2: at this point in time, I think Gonzal, Look, the
Speaker 2: guy's a ballerina on a football. Yeah, he moves like
Speaker 2: a freaking ballerina. I think for him, he's certainly gonna
Speaker 2: be more like living your hip pocket type of corner
Speaker 2: than a splash play corner. But his consistency to take
Speaker 2: the number one guy or to take the number two like,
Speaker 2: whatever way they want to dip it up. His consistency
Speaker 2: on the outside, I don't want to get too caught
Speaker 2: up in is he getna cover a J. Browsey and
Speaker 2: covered DeVante Smith whatever like? On the outside. His consistency
Speaker 2: on his side of the field is going to allow
Speaker 2: Jack Jones to be a ballhawk and be essentially their J. C. Jackson, Right,
Speaker 2: and just he's gonna have if Jack Jones keeps his
Speaker 2: head on and is healthy, he's gonna have I think
Speaker 2: five six, seven, eight picks this year, right, and that
Speaker 2: that really makes them multiple and uh makes them you
Speaker 2: know that much better. And then it comes to the
Speaker 2: slot and again not you know, I keep saying it
Speaker 2: when I say something negative about a player, not trashing
Speaker 2: on him, I don't mean to, you know, pick on
Speaker 2: Miles Bryant. But they are now evolved past Miles Bryant,
Speaker 2: Like they don't need to play Miles Bryan as much
Speaker 2: as they've been playing him. And now Jonathan Jones, whether
Speaker 2: he's the slot or Marcus Jones in the slot, they
Speaker 2: now have a better player there. So they have a
Speaker 2: better boundary corner in Christian Gonzalez, they have a better
Speaker 2: slot corner, and either John Jones or Marcus Jones, and
Speaker 2: they still have the multiplicity and and the hybrid players
Speaker 2: in the back end. That's what makes me excited because,
Speaker 2: like I just said, when they go against Patrick Mahomes
Speaker 2: and they go against Josh Allen, we'll see about Justin
Speaker 2: Herbert if he's can solve this yet this Rubik's Cube
Speaker 2: of Bill Belatricks yet. But those types of guys they
Speaker 2: win so often in those second reaction playground plays that, yeah,
Speaker 2: you might be able to spend the dial on them
Speaker 2: so that the initial play call fails on them, but
Speaker 2: they'll just they'll just run around right and they'll you know,
Speaker 2: they'll they'll figure it out and they'll make stuff happen.
Speaker 2: So what you really need is you need guys that
Speaker 2: can lock it down. You need guys that can cover
Speaker 2: Steffan Diggs. You need guys that can play out of
Speaker 2: the slot more consistently than Miles Brian in coverage. You
Speaker 2: need guys that can go out there and win their
Speaker 2: matchups that way. There, when you win matchups, that's when
Speaker 2: Josh Allen holds the football for too long, right, and
Speaker 2: that's okay. That's when Josh Uca comes. That's when Matthew
Speaker 2: Judon comes. That's when the guys Marty Mapu comes in
Speaker 2: the spy and it comes and closes and makes play
Speaker 2: on him. That's what gets me excited is just that
Speaker 2: this group in the back end is better than they
Speaker 2: were last year. Starts with Gonzales. The two second year
Speaker 2: Joneses are coming on well as well as we saw
Speaker 2: at the end of last year. It's a fun group.
Speaker 2: I said on p I'll say it here. I think
Speaker 2: the Patriots defense has a chance to be the best
Speaker 2: defense in the league. And I don't mean just like
Speaker 2: beating up the Sam Howells of their schedule. I mean really,
Speaker 2: and I don't mean holding Buffalo in Kansas City to
Speaker 2: thirteen points. But I mean like we come away from
Speaker 2: those games being like they were really, really competitive defensively
Speaker 2: against and not the fake competitive like the real competitive
Speaker 2: against those teams.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, you still San Francisco, you still a Philly.
Speaker 1: I would say this really good shot the best defense
Speaker 1: in the AFC. It's them, the Steelers and the Jets.
Speaker 1: That's that's pretty much it for me.
Speaker 2: I think I think they have a better front than
Speaker 2: the Jets. I think the Jets still does. Jets have
Speaker 2: a great scheme. Yeah, they have a great system, and
Speaker 2: Sauce is probably the best corner out of anybody in
Speaker 2: this group. But I think that they they might have
Speaker 2: a better front than.
Speaker 1: They definitely have the complete because it's funny you say
Speaker 1: that about the Jets. The Steelers have the better front,
Speaker 1: right the secondary they have MAKA obviously, but the corners aren't.
Speaker 1: You combine the two of them, the Patriots are the
Speaker 1: most well rounded. I think those are.
Speaker 2: The Patriots have depth and talented all three levels of
Speaker 2: this defense. And it's just and this isn't like a
Speaker 2: Homer take either. I've seen people nationally, like you know,
Speaker 2: Mina Kimes is really high on the Patriots defense right now.
Speaker 2: I've seen other people talk about this Patriots defense. They
Speaker 2: have real, really good players at all.
Speaker 1: So I think the one thing is again, So I
Speaker 1: think those are the three best defenses. These Steelers have TJ.
Speaker 1: Watt eng and if it's Patrick, the Jets have Sauce
Speaker 1: and Quinn Williams. Yeah, the Patriots finished sentenced. The Patriots
Speaker 1: have Matthew Judin and potential options here.
Speaker 2: I think I hear your point that maybe they're a
Speaker 2: little bit more unproven in that. No.
Speaker 1: No, my point is like, is there might actually so.
Speaker 2: They have even more depth than those teams.
Speaker 1: Do they have they have more depth? No? The thing is,
Speaker 1: do they have that second true star on defense, the
Speaker 1: guy that's gonna be the all Pro conversation with Matthew
Speaker 1: jude On?
Speaker 2: So there, Kyle Duger, I don't know if he's all
Speaker 2: Pro conversations. That's safety spots so deep across the league.
Speaker 1: Okay, here, all right, let me rephrase that, Uh t J.
Speaker 1: Watt top five a disposition? Yeah right, make if it's
Speaker 1: Patrick top five disposition, uh Sauce Gardener top five disposition,
Speaker 1: Quinn Williams top five disposition, Matthew Judon's top five disposition.
Speaker 1: Is there another guy along with Judaan on this defense
Speaker 1: that at the end of the year we will say
Speaker 1: was top five in his position? There's a couple of
Speaker 1: guys who maybe needle their way into the conversation. Kyle
Speaker 1: Duggar could could, I'm gonna say Christian Barmore could.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a deep spot. I know.
Speaker 1: But and here's where maybe I'm getting a little ahead
Speaker 1: of myself. But I don't care. Are you gonna say
Speaker 1: Chritian Zalees, I'm gonna say Chritian Salez No, not yet,
Speaker 1: not yet?
Speaker 2: So good. He's he's he looks, he looks the part.
Speaker 1: But is there anybody else that you think maybe he
Speaker 1: gets into the conversation.
Speaker 2: Not yet.
Speaker 1: Sauce has only played one year. We're putting him there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he Yeah, that's fair.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying is right now. I'm saying at the
Speaker 1: end of the year, when we go back and look
Speaker 1: at let's talk. Could Christian Gonzalez have a yer like
Speaker 1: sauceted last year?
Speaker 2: Maybe not the on ball production because.
Speaker 1: I don't because he's a different kind of impact.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe, you know. I always then there you go.
Speaker 2: The comp that I always go back to with Gonzales
Speaker 2: is certain.
Speaker 1: Can Is there a chance at the end of the year,
Speaker 1: we're talking about Matthew Judon and Christian Zalez. Like we
Speaker 1: talked about t J. Watt and Mike Fitzpatrick, it's possible
Speaker 1: that's and then there you go. Then that's my point, Like,
Speaker 1: that's that's the one thing they're missing stacked up to
Speaker 1: those other two defenses, is that second, you know, checkmate player.
Speaker 1: But I think they have guys that have the potential
Speaker 1: to be that guy. So been yet, but we'll see.
Speaker 2: So maybe the checkmate player, maybe he's a situational checkmate player.
Speaker 2: But I think J has a chance to be made.
Speaker 1: So that's it. Because that's two pass rushers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean eleven half sacks last year is
Speaker 2: eleven and half.
Speaker 1: That's and they were all on the second half of
Speaker 1: the season.
Speaker 2: That's fair. I'll give you that. All right, let's take
Speaker 2: this one last phone call and then we'll get to
Speaker 2: your your specialist. You're five minutes on the specialist. All right,
Speaker 2: all right, William, you gotta go quickly. We're we're really
Speaker 2: running long here. What's up, no problem?
Speaker 3: What's going on?
Speaker 4: How you doing?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 3: How you doing?
Speaker 2: Hey?
Speaker 1: Hey? Okay, real fast.
Speaker 4: Have you ever heard anything about the Pages were interested
Speaker 4: in trading for Chase Chase Young?
Speaker 1: Uh No, there's your second player. I don't think it's
Speaker 1: gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Uh, neither. Do you want the trade for Chase Young?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: I just.
Speaker 4: Man, what a second round pick?
Speaker 2: That's that's okay? All right, Zal you got yeah, that's all.
Speaker 1: Thanks for colling in, man, I appreciate it if they
Speaker 1: got Chase Young of the best defense in football. I
Speaker 1: don't know how they're doing it.
Speaker 2: They're not trading for Chase hands down. No, I don't
Speaker 2: think so. All right, the floor is yours alty, all right?
Speaker 2: Your takeaways about the specialists, Uh, the rookie specialist versus
Speaker 2: Nick Folk and cordless weightman? H during cordless? I said
Speaker 2: cordless weight man.
Speaker 1: They said cordless. He is cordless.
Speaker 2: He's a cordless phone. Now, Uh what what were your
Speaker 2: take I have some takes on this, but I want
Speaker 2: you know you're resident special team.
Speaker 1: All right, Well we'll do the kickers first. I think
Speaker 1: it's Ryland. I thought it was Ryland going in, but
Speaker 1: not going in. I was like, all right, he's a
Speaker 1: fourth round pick. Nick Folks thirty eight. He fell off
Speaker 1: the end of last year. That's also true, obviously. The
Speaker 1: other really interesting development when they were doing the kickoff drills,
Speaker 1: which they did a good amount of. It was pretty
Speaker 1: much just the kickers handling kickoffs, Ryland and Folk, and
Speaker 1: they split them evenly. But remember last year when Folk
Speaker 1: fell off. I don't think we ever got a definitive
Speaker 1: answer on this being the cause, but there was a
Speaker 1: lot of talk about Folk was handling kickoffs when Jake
Speaker 1: Bailey got hurt in it. I mean, it's fatigue on
Speaker 1: its leg. It was fatigue that happens. I know people think, oh,
Speaker 1: it's like seven kicks a game. You're putting a lot
Speaker 1: into it when it's hitting those.
Speaker 2: Kickofs, squatting your max or something.
Speaker 1: Right, So if the planet and I don't get why
Speaker 1: the punters aren't involved in kickoss, maybe they will be
Speaker 1: further down the road. But if the plan is to
Speaker 1: have whoever is the kicker handle kickoffs, it has to
Speaker 1: be Ryland. It has to be Ryland at that point.
Speaker 1: So Bill was asked about keeping three kickers. Didn't shoot
Speaker 1: it down. They didn't do it at times last year.
Speaker 1: Two kickers three Yeah, especially maybe Nick Folk goes to
Speaker 1: the practice squad gets elevated for field goals, but you
Speaker 1: can't do that all year. So I think that's definitively Ryley,
Speaker 1: do you want to go on the kickers?
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm not ready to like completely give the
Speaker 2: job to Ryland, but I'm ninety percent of the way there.
Speaker 2: I think that there's it's very very very clear based
Speaker 2: off of the spring that his leg is just it's
Speaker 2: it's a step ahead at Nick Folks. It's younger obviously,
Speaker 2: so that makes sense, you know, he's a younger player
Speaker 2: that he's got a little bit more power at this stage.
Speaker 2: But power on field goals, power on kickoffs obviously really
Speaker 2: out kicks Nick Folk in terms of you know, if
Speaker 2: we're driving a golf ball here, Nick Folks is is
Speaker 2: quite a bit behind.
Speaker 1: And he doesn't really sacrifice anything in terms vacuracy.
Speaker 2: So they had them doing a lot of kicks on
Speaker 2: the skinny goal post. Yeah, and he didn't make every
Speaker 2: single one of them, but it felt like every single
Speaker 2: one would have went through the regular goal posts probably
Speaker 2: and are close to it. And the most more importantly,
Speaker 2: he has control of the football right like it's not
Speaker 2: a Quinn Nordin justin Rollerroser situation where he's hitting the
Speaker 2: porter potties in the back the practice field you can
Speaker 2: tell that he knows where it's going on top of
Speaker 2: the little bit more range that he has on field
Speaker 2: goals too. So I find it, You know, Nick Folk
Speaker 2: really saved them at a time where they were in
Speaker 2: desperate need of a kicker. But I find it hard
Speaker 2: to believe that he's going to beat out Ryland.
Speaker 1: Yeah, punter Corlis Weightman looked good. Yeah, he looked a
Speaker 1: lot better than I expect me. He he led the
Speaker 1: league in punts last year with the Broncos, but most
Speaker 1: of his metrics, I twenties touchbacks that average, things like
Speaker 1: that were bottom third of the league.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I didn't see him, and it's really hard like to
Speaker 1: spin on the ball to pick up on TV. Kind
Speaker 1: of have to see in person. Didn't see him last year,
Speaker 1: but I did not expect, given what his kicks looked
Speaker 1: like last year, to have the rotation they did. Bryce
Speaker 1: Bearinger was limited. It sounded like he was dealing with
Speaker 1: some sort of medical thing. Yeah, we'll see what happens there.
Speaker 1: He's also a six round pick. He's maybe a guy
Speaker 1: that can get on the practice squad. I don't think
Speaker 1: he's as much of a lock it's Weightman right now.
Speaker 1: There's still a lot of time for things to change, obviously,
Speaker 1: but you're I would I'm a wait and see guy,
Speaker 1: because I still think it could be either one. But
Speaker 1: I if they had a pick today, if they had
Speaker 1: a play game today and it's fourth down, I'm sending
Speaker 1: out Cortless Weightman.
Speaker 2: So what were your hang times on both of them?
Speaker 2: You don't have to rattle off all of them.
Speaker 1: I still need to average them out because.
Speaker 2: It felt to me and I wasn't clocking them quite
Speaker 2: as closely as you were. But I thought that that
Speaker 2: Baringer had a little bit more height on the ball sometimes.
Speaker 1: Baringer probably Bearinger probably had the higher average, but Weightment
Speaker 1: was a lot more consistent. Baringer had one period where
Speaker 1: I think like three of his five punts were all
Speaker 1: five seconds, but the other two were under four, whereas
Speaker 1: Weightman was pretty steadily like in that four to two
Speaker 1: to four to four range, which isn't incredible. But again
Speaker 1: I remind everybody of this, This is why they run
Speaker 1: the forty yard dash, to see if you can get
Speaker 1: downfield and cover punt in time. That is the actual
Speaker 1: intent of the forty yard dash, why that troll was implemented.
Speaker 2: At the combine.
Speaker 1: So yeah, if your kick them balld like four three
Speaker 1: four four, it could be a little better. But you're
Speaker 1: in okay shape.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, I'm surprised. I'm surprised you're you're You're
Speaker 2: on Weightman a little bit. Obviously, I'm watching it in time.
Speaker 2: It is quite there's there's still time there. There's still
Speaker 2: time for things to change, still time for things to change.
Speaker 2: But and I just read as I said for it,
Speaker 2: it was like four four four five like that range,
Speaker 2: not four two.
Speaker 1: Yeah that I was I was thinking of like the
Speaker 1: slower because again Baringer was like five two or four
Speaker 1: two five to or four two. Weightman was like four
Speaker 1: five four six four five four six, So like he
Speaker 1: didn't he didn't have that many five second punts. But
Speaker 1: I okay, so it's not that big of a deal
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: Right now, just to chalk it up, Yeah, it's basically
Speaker 2: Weightman more consistent Bearinger. Maybe a little bit of a
Speaker 2: higher ceiling, right, just you know, a little bit bigger. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's not what's pretty much.
Speaker 1: And the one other special teams note I'd add, Yeah,
Speaker 1: if we're doing the the who's the UDFA that extends it.
Speaker 2: I think Jordan heat Like has a chance to make Yeah,
Speaker 2: they like him.
Speaker 1: He got one on one reps with Slater. I like
Speaker 1: that he's a true special teamer. He only played forty
Speaker 1: snaps at linebacker in college. That there's obviously a learning
Speaker 1: curve for any player. But I think that probably lessens
Speaker 1: it a little bit because like a guy like DeMarcus
Speaker 1: Mitchell last year obviously proved to be a good special teamer,
Speaker 1: but he was a full time defensive end in college.
Speaker 1: He didn't have the special team's experience that a guy
Speaker 1: like Jordan Helig does. It's kind of a rare player.
Speaker 1: You don't see true coverage guys at the college level
Speaker 1: that often. So Matthew Slayers.
Speaker 2: I think makes it still. Ye, Slater obviously makes it still.
Speaker 2: Cody Davis has been limited, you know, he had that
Speaker 2: bad injury.
Speaker 1: So I had Cody Davis off because him and Heli
Speaker 1: probably play similar positions too, So maybe.
Speaker 2: It could be Cody Davis that that missus out. I
Speaker 2: have DeMarcus Mitchell off right now too. I just think
Speaker 2: that they're too crowded there and if they like Helig,
Speaker 2: then it probably pushes him off even more. All Right,
Speaker 2: So that was a cool two hours of Minnie Camp recap.
Speaker 2: I love it. Thanks to Marine in the booth for
Speaker 2: not fallowing us sleep on us over there, and we're
Speaker 2: gonna be back next week. Obviously we're on DeAndre Hopkins
Speaker 2: watch right now, but maybe we'll have some more just
Speaker 2: kind of sit on it and percolate a little bit
Speaker 2: on Mini camp as well. But Patriots are off until
Speaker 2: the end of July. Well be uh no, I don't
Speaker 2: think we've a formally announced training camp date, so I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna say it, but end of July is a
Speaker 2: training camp, so a little bit of a dead period here,
Speaker 2: but we're gonna be here every single week, still talking
Speaker 2: Patriots Rolister. We'll do some U can't preview breakdowns things
Speaker 2: like that, obviously, we'll talk about news and things too,
Speaker 2: So until then, signing off for Alex Barth, I'm Evan Lazar.
Speaker 2: Thanks for watching on YouTube, Thanks for listening, and we'll
Speaker 2: see you guys next week. Bye.
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