Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today's
Speaker 1: guests may be best known for being the first to
Speaker 1: take all twenty nine North American Big Game animals with
Speaker 1: the recurve bow and complete the super Slam. Fred Eichler.
Speaker 1: He's been fortunate enough to share his love and enthusiasm
Speaker 1: of the sport with fellow bow hunters across the country
Speaker 1: through his television shows and personal appearances. Today, we hope
Speaker 1: to tap into his knowledge on predator calling, but more
Speaker 1: specifically targeting bears. Welcome to the show, Fred, Hey, thanks
Speaker 1: so much, Sy I appreciate it. How's everything going absolutely great?
Speaker 1: Man's a beautiful day here in Colorado, and uh having
Speaker 1: a blast. Just got done do some predator calling the
Speaker 1: other day down in Texas and Florida. So still rolling here, buddy,
Speaker 1: I don't know how to slow down. Good deal, Good deal.
Speaker 1: Um So I remember, and I don't want to date myself,
Speaker 1: but um, I remember like growing up a little bit
Speaker 1: and watching a lot of your stuff on East and
Speaker 1: Bowing TV and and some of your stuff come through
Speaker 1: YouTube and and while you were very accomplished hunter and
Speaker 1: and uh, I loved watching that. I almost got this
Speaker 1: sense that um you're a little bit of a wild
Speaker 1: man when it came to bears and some of the
Speaker 1: stuff that I had, Um, you've seen you do. Uh
Speaker 1: the one where you guys were in the raft. Um,
Speaker 1: you guys came up on the three cubs and that
Speaker 1: sal was on you guys and seconds like that one
Speaker 1: is like burned into my um. You know, I think
Speaker 1: there's a video of maybe you guys were to lodge
Speaker 1: or at a camp and there's a black bear messing
Speaker 1: around in the garbage can and you go up and
Speaker 1: decide you want to give him a little pat on
Speaker 1: the back. Uh, you know they're there's just like when
Speaker 1: I think you're Fred, I think of like an amazing
Speaker 1: like recurve bow hunter, but I also think of like
Speaker 1: a guy that I want to say reckless. You know
Speaker 1: what you're doing. You're very skilled, but like the bears
Speaker 1: don't seem to bother you as much. But then, um,
Speaker 1: you've also got you know, a ton of experience calling
Speaker 1: bears and that's really why I wanted to talk to you,
Speaker 1: um today. You know, there there's a video of of
Speaker 1: you on YouTube. You know, you call a bear and
Speaker 1: he walks down the log. I think he's fifteen seventeen
Speaker 1: yards above you. You know, on a different hunt, you
Speaker 1: called in two different bears. Um, you know what on
Speaker 1: on a ROSSI video that you were filming with your
Speaker 1: forty seventy UM. So there's just when I when I
Speaker 1: think of your fred Eichler, uh, you know bears, I
Speaker 1: think of bears and calling bears for some reason, I
Speaker 1: know you're you're very accomplishing and you you probably don't
Speaker 1: want to be UM categorized by ball but that's definitely
Speaker 1: why we why we brought you on here. Well, I'm honitored.
Speaker 1: I appreciate what I think of you. I think of
Speaker 1: elk and calls. So that's the only fair YEA perfect
Speaker 1: perfect So we'll get this started off. I we've got
Speaker 1: a couple of questions, UM, typical questions for black bear hunters.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna probably um, you know, pivot to you to answer. UM. So,
Speaker 1: when you're calling bears, do you use any natural sounds
Speaker 1: with your UM calling? So, like, you know, if if
Speaker 1: something you're imitating something dying predator instinct, you're trying to
Speaker 1: draw on that. Are you snapping sticks? Are you're breaking brush?
Speaker 1: Are you just strictly calling? So I've done both. I've
Speaker 1: I've broken branches, I've kicked you know, around with my boot.
Speaker 1: A lot of it depends on the bear. I love
Speaker 1: it when you can see a bearing call. So I've
Speaker 1: called in bears blind calling, which you know, I refer
Speaker 1: to blind calling as you're not looking at the bear,
Speaker 1: You're just literally set up in a very very looking area. Um,
Speaker 1: maybe you've got a lot of sign there and you're
Speaker 1: just hoping that you're in the right spot bears close
Speaker 1: enough to hear you. Um, that works great. I've've had
Speaker 1: success doing that. I have more success if I can
Speaker 1: spot the bear first and gauge its reaction to my
Speaker 1: calling to the to the other noises I'm making light,
Speaker 1: breaking sticks or kicking brush. You know, if I see
Speaker 1: that bear start to hesitate or as I'm really willing
Speaker 1: on the call, does it come in faster if I'm
Speaker 1: slowing down or quiet it down, or if I'm louder
Speaker 1: and more aggressive. So, every bear, just like every person,
Speaker 1: has a totally different personality, as you know, and you know,
Speaker 1: I've been fortunate to be a you know, I've been
Speaker 1: around a lot of bears, Polar bears, the bears, brown bears,
Speaker 1: and and a lot of black bears, not only for
Speaker 1: myself hunting, but for clients as well, So everyone is different.
Speaker 1: I wish I could say it was cookie cutter and boy,
Speaker 1: this is gonna work every time. But as you know,
Speaker 1: you know, calling in a bunch of elk and all
Speaker 1: the different animals that you've called in and hunted, everyone
Speaker 1: is a little bit different. And I think bears are
Speaker 1: even even more so than that. You know, you can
Speaker 1: take white tails and yeah, everyone's a little different. But
Speaker 1: for bears, it seems like there's such a wide variety
Speaker 1: based on their experience. As you know, you know, is
Speaker 1: it a you know, dominant bears or subordinate bears? It
Speaker 1: a you know, is it a bore? Is it a female?
Speaker 1: What time of years it is? Springs it fall? A
Speaker 1: lot of variables come into play for that, but yes,
Speaker 1: and answer a long winded answer to your question based
Speaker 1: on the bear. If I can see it, I'll switch
Speaker 1: it up. If I have a bear starting to hesitate
Speaker 1: and uh, I'm kicking and making a lot of brush noise,
Speaker 1: then I'll stop slow down on that. Um. If I'm
Speaker 1: not making any noise and that bear has they sent
Speaker 1: I'll try and make more realism and maybe I'll kick
Speaker 1: some branches and try and have some bushes moving around me.
Speaker 1: You know. At the same time, you know that that
Speaker 1: makes a ton of sense, and U we all know bears.
Speaker 1: Here's the second question. We all know bears can't see
Speaker 1: the greatest um, but they can see your makeout movement.
Speaker 1: Do use any visual attractant and any of your bear setups?
Speaker 1: Are you trying to be as still as possible? So
Speaker 1: great questions. Sometimes I've even gone with black clothing because
Speaker 1: I want the bear to think maybe I'm another bear.
Speaker 1: A lot of times, y'alla bears getting aggressive um and
Speaker 1: they almost think it's a you know, whether it's another bear,
Speaker 1: whether they think it's a cub um. I've had boars
Speaker 1: running that I think, we're like, man, this is a
Speaker 1: cub And I say that because I've had sALS that
Speaker 1: had cubs charge in almost like they thought one of
Speaker 1: their cubs, you know, it was possibly getting hurt, which
Speaker 1: is you know, can be a little exciting. You know.
Speaker 1: I've had a few crazy, crazy experience as you mentioned
Speaker 1: the one charge. You know, you couldn't got a grease
Speaker 1: bb in my butt with a hammer, you know at
Speaker 1: that time. And I've had a few times like that. Uh,
Speaker 1: I'm not really scared of black bears. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: I've just been around so much. But I'm very cognizant
Speaker 1: that you know, they are big, strong bears and and uh,
Speaker 1: but once you start, I don't know, I don't want
Speaker 1: to sound like that guy that got eaten in Alaska,
Speaker 1: but once start messing with them, you start to feel
Speaker 1: a little more comfortable. But I'm also very cognizant that
Speaker 1: you know, they're strong animals in it's their environment, and
Speaker 1: so you know, I try to play each one a
Speaker 1: little bit differently. Got you, got you well, thank you?
Speaker 1: And if you out there want to submit your own
Speaker 1: questions and cutting in the distance, you can email us
Speaker 1: at ct D at Phelps game Calls dot com and
Speaker 1: we'll take your guys as questions and um you answer them,
Speaker 1: answer it myself, or we'll we'll send it to the experts.
Speaker 1: So now we're gonna get into the questions I have
Speaker 1: for you, Fred, Um, you know, and kind of my
Speaker 1: interest in calling bears, um, and you may be different,
Speaker 1: but just the overall consensus is, you know, calling bears
Speaker 1: seems to almost be played with with somewhat low odds
Speaker 1: now you can kind of you know, correct me or
Speaker 1: or you know, versus the typical spot in stock And
Speaker 1: it sounds like you're answer to one of the earlier questions.
Speaker 1: Maybe you do a little bit of both. You spot
Speaker 1: the bear and then you go in and try to call.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of that hybrid system. We do it
Speaker 1: a lot elk calling. You know, it's not we're not
Speaker 1: calling the elk to our location. We're gonna find them,
Speaker 1: go get close, and then move them a very short
Speaker 1: distance if possible. It always up to your odds versus um.
Speaker 1: So you know, I mentioned we were talking before a
Speaker 1: little bit. I've said up probably thousands of times to
Speaker 1: call an elk and and and that's a false setting.
Speaker 1: You know, the bears are pretty full by then. But
Speaker 1: I've only had six bears come in. What would you say,
Speaker 1: like in your typical setups, what your odds are for
Speaker 1: calling a bearon you know, and that's you might want
Speaker 1: to um, you know, preface that with whether you've just
Speaker 1: bought at a bear, whether there was a bear in
Speaker 1: that area a day ago, versus if you're completely cold
Speaker 1: calling in an area that seems to be barry. You know,
Speaker 1: But what are your odds when you sit down, the
Speaker 1: call a great question. So I would say, when I'm
Speaker 1: blind calling, well, it's probably one out of twenty to
Speaker 1: be honest. I mean, it's not something I would tell everybody.
Speaker 1: Oh man, go out there and think you're gonna do
Speaker 1: this every time, even when you're in a pretty bury area. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, it be you know, as low as one
Speaker 1: out of twenty. But to me, one out of twenty
Speaker 1: is awesome. You know what I mean. If I make
Speaker 1: ten calls in one day and nothing comes in, I
Speaker 1: make ten calls the next day. In two days, I'm
Speaker 1: expecting a bear to come in, you know, and react
Speaker 1: to my call. So you know, it doesn't sound great.
Speaker 1: But to me, I look at it like, every single
Speaker 1: time I don't I call and nothing comes in, I
Speaker 1: get even more excited because I'm like, what are the
Speaker 1: odds something's not gonna come in this next time? You know,
Speaker 1: I'm one of those, you know, I'm an optimist. So
Speaker 1: when it comes to that, but blind calling is by
Speaker 1: far the most difficult, just because you don't know if
Speaker 1: you're you know, even with an ear shot, you may
Speaker 1: have a lot of sign, but are they coming in
Speaker 1: there at night? Are they coming in there? You know?
Speaker 1: Is that signed five hours old? Is it? You know
Speaker 1: what I mean? You know, twelve hours old? Where's the bear?
Speaker 1: You know at that time? So now when it comes
Speaker 1: to seeing a bear and then calling it, man, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna up that up to like two out of ten
Speaker 1: um because you can have a lot better odds um
Speaker 1: with bears when you can see them. And I think
Speaker 1: a lot of that's because I can gauge their reactions.
Speaker 1: So I do a lot of different things. You don't.
Speaker 1: I'll look at the bear, and a lot of times
Speaker 1: I won't call the bears, even though I think I can,
Speaker 1: because it's either you know, it might be a juvenile bear,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to, you know, have it come
Speaker 1: in curious, And I'll play a juvenile bear a lot differently.
Speaker 1: I'll go real quiet. So I brought a couple of calls,
Speaker 1: but like I may just gauge its reaction, and I
Speaker 1: don't want to blow you out here, but you know,
Speaker 1: gauge its reaction really slow, like you know, I'm just starting,
Speaker 1: you know, And and I'll try and sound like something
Speaker 1: with a little longer breath or something with a little
Speaker 1: shorter breath. So like a deer when it's squalling, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, or something's killing it. It has
Speaker 1: bigger lungs. It makes a longer squall, you know. And
Speaker 1: then as opposed to like a rabbit or smaller animal,
Speaker 1: they keep taking breaths really quickly. So I'll gauge based
Speaker 1: on the size of the bear. A lot of times
Speaker 1: how I'm gonna call, but a lot of bears I
Speaker 1: don't call too. So if it's a juvenile bear, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go. Uh. If it's a sound with cubs, I
Speaker 1: try and leave that alone. You know. You know, how
Speaker 1: have I ever messed with him a little bit just
Speaker 1: because it's exciting, and you know, when I've had guys around, like, hey,
Speaker 1: you want to see something crazy, you know, watch this. Uh.
Speaker 1: But normally I'm just looking for you know, your your
Speaker 1: loan bears, your more mature bears, And that's what I'm
Speaker 1: That's what I'm setting up for um, just for the
Speaker 1: safety reason and also so guys have a minute to
Speaker 1: look at that bear. I'll try and set up where
Speaker 1: I can watch watch a little country um or get
Speaker 1: to where between me and the bear, I can see
Speaker 1: the bear approaching. UM bears aren't gonna hook a lot
Speaker 1: down wind. Usually, you know the bears that I've called to,
Speaker 1: you know, they'll come more straight at you. They're not
Speaker 1: trying to hook wide and catch your wind. Um. If
Speaker 1: you set up correctly, that bear is usually gonna come
Speaker 1: into you. You know, they're not too worried about stuff.
Speaker 1: There are kind of a you know apex, you know,
Speaker 1: top tier predator, and they're not worried about something else
Speaker 1: eating them, unless it's a grizzy or brown bear. And
Speaker 1: if you're in country that has both. But normally a
Speaker 1: black bear is gonna come in. So I try and
Speaker 1: get to where I can see it. Um. Now that
Speaker 1: could be advantageous and disadvantage as well. I had a
Speaker 1: client one time with a muzzleloader. Of course you've only
Speaker 1: got one shot, and you know, you get a lot
Speaker 1: of smoke, you know, if you're shooting, uh, you know
Speaker 1: the old the old muzzloaders. But I called it a
Speaker 1: bear from about a hundred and fifty yards and it
Speaker 1: comes screaming in and and it was just one of those.
Speaker 1: It was the right time, It was the right bear,
Speaker 1: and this bear is coming, and that I could tell
Speaker 1: the guys just getting really nervous. I'm like, man, just
Speaker 1: stay calm, you know what I mean, Hopefully he'll coming
Speaker 1: close and he'll stop. Well, this bear gets about eight
Speaker 1: yards away, doesn't have a good shot, stops, so I
Speaker 1: start pouring the coals to him. You know, I start
Speaker 1: really just just just wailing hard, just really you know,
Speaker 1: kind of aggressive. And this bear just drops off the
Speaker 1: hill and he's coming as hard as a bear can come.
Speaker 1: And I stopped calling and I start yelling trying to
Speaker 1: stop the bears, like guy can get a good shot,
Speaker 1: and he's just I mean, this bear is gonna run
Speaker 1: us right over, you know, he's coming right ass. And
Speaker 1: I'm like I start telling I'm like, shoot shoot him. Shoot. Well,
Speaker 1: the bear gets about twenty yards on a full run,
Speaker 1: and he's coming right to me. Guy touches off this
Speaker 1: muzzloader and smoke, you know, either us could see, and
Speaker 1: I kind of, you know, you know how you cringe
Speaker 1: a little bit. I'm like, man, this is gonna hurt.
Speaker 1: He's gonna you know, he doesn't eat us, he's gonna
Speaker 1: he's gonna knock us over for sure. And there's smoke everywhere.
Speaker 1: I can't see a thing, you know. And finally the
Speaker 1: smoke clears and this poor guy is gone. Then you know,
Speaker 1: to be like he scoots away, he's freaked out, he's
Speaker 1: in a little ball, you know, he's like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I was gonna kill us hit him, and he goes.
Speaker 1: I didn't even aim at him, he goes. I just
Speaker 1: pull the trigger to get him to go away. Like
Speaker 1: that would have been so incredible. So you know, again
Speaker 1: long when it answer your question. But yes, I'll change
Speaker 1: it up. I like to set up where I can
Speaker 1: see um, I'll call you know, I will call blind.
Speaker 1: But you know, like I said, one out of twenty,
Speaker 1: maybe where's where's opposed to when I can see a bear,
Speaker 1: I can probably get two out of ten to to
Speaker 1: respond and and actually come in whether that's all the
Speaker 1: way to you or get some kind of respond from
Speaker 1: where they're coming and closing the distance to a degree. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then just a follow up question to something you
Speaker 1: said there from my form my own curiosity. You you
Speaker 1: mentioned like based on the size of the bear, you
Speaker 1: will call different or maybe use like rather than a rabbit,
Speaker 1: use a font. Are you are you using like a
Speaker 1: fawn call with a bigger bear or or did I
Speaker 1: miss here that no, no, no no, you're changing the total right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So you know, a smaller bear, just like you know
Speaker 1: smaller predators. A smaller bear might might be a little
Speaker 1: antivity if it's a really loud super squall, you know,
Speaker 1: a larger animal. So if it's a really younger bear,
Speaker 1: a lot of times I'll go with a smaller or
Speaker 1: not as aggressive predator. Sound um. But if it's a bigger, older,
Speaker 1: mature bear, and I look at it and go, man,
Speaker 1: that things probably killed elk calves, moose calves, deer calves, everything.
Speaker 1: It's been around the block and heard a lot of
Speaker 1: things die. Um, I'm gonna maybe play a little more
Speaker 1: aggressive a longer lunged animal like a deer or an
Speaker 1: elk calf or or something like that. And I'll even
Speaker 1: use diaphragms at times just to make that plaintive longer
Speaker 1: call uh to to increase the odds of it coming in. Okay, perfect,
Speaker 1: perfect um. So we we talked about this on our
Speaker 1: last bear calling podcast. But you know, for me, it's
Speaker 1: a struggle because bears don't necessarily call back everything else.
Speaker 1: I call to turkey, I make a noise, they answer
Speaker 1: me back. I know I'm in the right spot, Like
Speaker 1: this is a spotting need to be So how do
Speaker 1: you find confidence in a spot like pre scouting when
Speaker 1: you're going out, you know the red trees, you know,
Speaker 1: scout all that, Like how do you know, like is
Speaker 1: there an amount of scat? Is there enough sign? Like
Speaker 1: what's your what's your factors into knowing you're in a
Speaker 1: good spot to be? UM for calum bears great point
Speaker 1: um one. A lot of times it's scat, and I
Speaker 1: like a lot of fresh scat. Bears follow food sources, UM,
Speaker 1: just like the elk and things like that. But it
Speaker 1: seems like you'll have a lot of bears in one
Speaker 1: small area. So in my area, you know here in
Speaker 1: southern Colorado, Um, I live at seven thousand feet you
Speaker 1: know this is this is my house here where I'm living,
Speaker 1: and we'll have bears all over here and behind the
Speaker 1: house and and on our rants as well as a
Speaker 1: lot of the places that we hunt. UM. But I'm
Speaker 1: looking for oak brush, you know, I'm looking for when
Speaker 1: acorns are dropping, and based on whether it's a south
Speaker 1: slope nor slope where you know, whether it's sounding a
Speaker 1: canyon or not. UM oak brush and a lot of
Speaker 1: the oak trees will off acorns at different times, you know,
Speaker 1: it maybe a couple of days difference, it maybe weeks difference.
Speaker 1: So I'm looking for the spot that's hot at that time,
Speaker 1: what's dropping, Where are all the bears? And if I'm
Speaker 1: seeing all kinds of fresh cat, then I know the
Speaker 1: bears are there. Um, I'm doing a lot of glassing.
Speaker 1: You know, I'll get up high. You know, I'll look
Speaker 1: with a spotting scope. Um, I'm looking in dirt roads
Speaker 1: for tracks on top of my tracks, um, whether it's
Speaker 1: hire tracks, so there's my boot tracks. So you know,
Speaker 1: I'm looking for that tons of activity to get in
Speaker 1: there and and increase my odds. Um, In areas like that,
Speaker 1: I'll have more success. When i'm blind calling, I don't
Speaker 1: actually have to see the bear. If I know it
Speaker 1: looks like they're really feeding on the soap brush and
Speaker 1: they're gonna be laying up close. Same thing, you know,
Speaker 1: in a very state the state legality wise, but if
Speaker 1: bears are on a carcass, a lot of times the
Speaker 1: more mature bears, and you everybody's that that has hunted
Speaker 1: bears over baits has watched them come in and usually
Speaker 1: it's you know, the subordinate, you know, the smaller bears
Speaker 1: or you know, the ones that are that aren't dominant,
Speaker 1: slip in first earlier, and they'll grab a little meat,
Speaker 1: you know, or whatever whatever they're sitting on, and then
Speaker 1: the bigger bears will come and then ride it dark.
Speaker 1: You know, the big ones come mambling in there, or
Speaker 1: if they know that there's a younger bear trying to
Speaker 1: steal their feet, they'll come running in earlier. So a
Speaker 1: lot of times I'll set up close to those feet
Speaker 1: sources again, whether it's acorns, whether it's a dead carcass.
Speaker 1: Here in Colorado you can legally hunt over the carcass
Speaker 1: of a of a legally killed animal or something that
Speaker 1: you've found. So let's say one of my clients harvest
Speaker 1: and elk. We take all the edible meat off it,
Speaker 1: you know, quarters, backstop, sent alongs all that, and there's
Speaker 1: just a gut pile, maybe some ribs there. You know,
Speaker 1: I'll set up and call off that. Once a bear
Speaker 1: start hitting that, that's a great location to slip into
Speaker 1: and and try and call something off of. Got you perfect,
Speaker 1: perfect um. So you're going out on a bear hunt.
Speaker 1: You're in a column, so you expect them to be
Speaker 1: you know, fifty sixty, you know, maybe a hundred yards?
Speaker 1: Like what what gun are you grabbing out of your
Speaker 1: your gun safe? You know before you take off too,
Speaker 1: if you're gonna target bears and intend to call him in,
Speaker 1: so you know what I come guys, you can use
Speaker 1: any weapon you want. A lot of guys are into
Speaker 1: the longer range. Some people don't like bears up close.
Speaker 1: For me, calling a bear is about being up cloaks,
Speaker 1: like I want him close. Um. You know one of
Speaker 1: the guys that you know hunt with in Canada, lot,
Speaker 1: you know, Clint, He's got kiss Yox Valley Outfitters, and
Speaker 1: he loves calling bears in. And we both look at
Speaker 1: it the same way, like I want the bear right
Speaker 1: on top of me, you know. To me, I didn't
Speaker 1: really call that bear in or do a great job
Speaker 1: of calling him in unless he's under thirty yards. I
Speaker 1: want the bear close, you know. So that's so I
Speaker 1: choose my weapon accordingly. Um, when I'm also calling bears
Speaker 1: and I want something that has a lot of stopping power. Um,
Speaker 1: sot seventy to me, there's something about the lever guns too.
Speaker 1: You know, I've gotta you know, I've got a Rossy
Speaker 1: forty five seventy and I absolutely love it. It's just
Speaker 1: you know, and any of those you know, Marlon, there's
Speaker 1: a bunch of people that have those levers and the
Speaker 1: larger calibers. But I've got a you know, rossy lever
Speaker 1: forty five seven and eat and I'm running a heavy
Speaker 1: bullet through it hollow point and man when they come up.
Speaker 1: You know, Hornedy has got some quite a few different
Speaker 1: loads for it. And I want something that when I shoot,
Speaker 1: it's gonna drop the bear either in its tracks or
Speaker 1: it's gonna knock that bear to where it's not gonna
Speaker 1: go twenty yards and it's gonna drop. Um. Also, just
Speaker 1: so you have the shorter barrel, I'm not trying to
Speaker 1: acquire a scope. I like the open sites. Red dots
Speaker 1: not a bad idea either, but for me, I like
Speaker 1: open sits. Uh, you know, the shorter levers because it's quick.
Speaker 1: You can swing it quick, you can react quick. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, if I'm with a client, um, you know,
Speaker 1: even if I'm hunting with a you know, with another guy,
Speaker 1: then we're both calling. You know, I've tandem called with Clint,
Speaker 1: you know, a Candida we've got an absolute blast do
Speaker 1: and that um, because man, I mean when you got
Speaker 1: two guys and calling differently, oh, it just it just
Speaker 1: seems like, you know, multiple just like Elk calling when
Speaker 1: you have one guy Calcolm here, another guy calcn behind you.
Speaker 1: Um with bears too, when we have two different guys,
Speaker 1: was running a little bit different sounds. Everybody calls a
Speaker 1: little bit differently. Man, it seems like Bears just know
Speaker 1: it increases the odds. So sometimes tandem calling works great too.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm gonna tell you that that a lever
Speaker 1: short heavy caliber. I like that because I like calling
Speaker 1: him in close. So you know, I'll have a lot
Speaker 1: of barrats that will close that you know, a hundred
Speaker 1: yards and that's neat. You can reach out there and
Speaker 1: you know, shoot him with a scope and that's all
Speaker 1: great too. But for me, if I go on out
Speaker 1: and going, man, I'm gonna try and call a Barrett.
Speaker 1: This is my goal. I want him in right on
Speaker 1: top of Yeah, do you do you still pick up
Speaker 1: the recurve if you're gonna if you're gonna call, is
Speaker 1: a bow a good option, like, just because there there's
Speaker 1: that chance that you're not gonna get him to stop
Speaker 1: at twenty or thirty, right and exactly go ahead. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry I started laughing because I'm like, I have my
Speaker 1: answer to this. So, yeah, I was assuming. I was
Speaker 1: assuming the answer was that, but I just wanted to
Speaker 1: double check that you're not picking up your your record
Speaker 1: or any bow when you're going to specifically calling though.
Speaker 1: And that's that's a great question. Now have I done it? Yes?
Speaker 1: Is it something I'm ever gonna take a client on
Speaker 1: or is it something I would ever suggest people to do? Know?
Speaker 1: And I say that because especially blind calling. Um, I've
Speaker 1: had situations where we've had to shoot, you know, in
Speaker 1: in front of a sal with cubs. Um that was
Speaker 1: really aggressive. And not only do you stop calling it
Speaker 1: and have to shoot in front of it and back
Speaker 1: out of the area, but man with with a bow,
Speaker 1: you know, and I always carry a carry gun anyways,
Speaker 1: but just that reaction time when a bear closes quick.
Speaker 1: And that's why I like to be able to see
Speaker 1: a little bit. But when you have a bear just
Speaker 1: come on top of you just like that and you're
Speaker 1: in you know, sometimes they can do that. Uh yeah,
Speaker 1: bow's not really it's it's it's not the perfect thing
Speaker 1: to use when you're calling bears, whether it's you know,
Speaker 1: grizzlies or browns or blacks. Um. You know, hey, if
Speaker 1: somebody wants to do it, that's fine. But I'll just
Speaker 1: saying it's I've seen some situations where I went, I'm
Speaker 1: really glad I didn't have my recurb there that could
Speaker 1: have that could have turned a little south. So so yeah,
Speaker 1: for me, that's that's more of a you know, you know,
Speaker 1: slip slip in and shoot it with the bows. But
Speaker 1: for calling them, you know, I'm more of a probably
Speaker 1: better to have a gun with. You got you got you. Um,
Speaker 1: Now let's get into some of the fun stuff. Um,
Speaker 1: the predator calls. You know, there's there's a lot out there.
Speaker 1: There's you know, you can go electronic caller or you
Speaker 1: can go mouth calls. You can go open read versus
Speaker 1: you know, close read. You can, um kind of walk
Speaker 1: through what you look at predator calls. I know you've
Speaker 1: um partnered up with Western rivers um, you know, to
Speaker 1: to make your own electronic call, So tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about that, and then you know you've already
Speaker 1: demonstrated some mouth calls, so just kind of walk through
Speaker 1: your selection when you're going to call bears, Um, you
Speaker 1: know what what calls you're looking at, what you're gonna bring.
Speaker 1: You know the legality of you know, certain calls in
Speaker 1: certain states, and kind of walk through that. That whole
Speaker 1: the whole conversation on the calls. Now, great quest and Jason,
Speaker 1: and you know probably better than you know anyone because
Speaker 1: you've called so much and you know your own line
Speaker 1: of calls and everything you've done. Um, it's so important.
Speaker 1: Animals can get educated to a certain call, whether it's
Speaker 1: a turkey, whether it's a coyote. You know, almost any
Speaker 1: animal learners and and can get educated and if it
Speaker 1: has a bad experience. So one of the things I
Speaker 1: like is switching it up, um. And whether that's a
Speaker 1: mouth call electronic call, Um, I try and blow electrac
Speaker 1: or mouth calls differently. If I'm hunting in the same
Speaker 1: area or going to a place I've been before, and
Speaker 1: the same thing with electronic calls. I'll literally sometimes keep
Speaker 1: notes and go, Okay, I hunted this area, whether it's
Speaker 1: a public land area or a private ranch, and I
Speaker 1: played this call, this call on this call. So when
Speaker 1: I go there next time, I'm gonna play totally different sounds,
Speaker 1: um mixing it up. It's huge. You know. I've done
Speaker 1: predator seminars before, and one of the questions I'll ask
Speaker 1: how many people here, you know have gone predator hunting?
Speaker 1: And almost everbody raised their hand. That's why they know
Speaker 1: they're there, you know, at the seminar. And I'll say
Speaker 1: how many people, um, you know are happy with the
Speaker 1: success that they have predator hunting, you know, and maybe
Speaker 1: a quarter of the hands will go up, you know,
Speaker 1: and again that's whether they're a seminar. And I'll say
Speaker 1: how many people play a dying rabbit call? And every
Speaker 1: single hand goes up. I'm like, well, there's your problem.
Speaker 1: Everybody's playing that time grabbic call because that's what it
Speaker 1: started with, you know, and and those those coyotes and
Speaker 1: and and fox everything they're getting educated to it. And
Speaker 1: I've gone to places where people have had zero success
Speaker 1: and said, man, I just these cuyouts are so smart.
Speaker 1: I just can't call him in or I don't understand it.
Speaker 1: Nobody's ever called this is my favorite one. Nobody's ever
Speaker 1: called in this spot. But I still can't call Cyouts in.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you understand that Coles may arrange five
Speaker 1: miles ten miles. If your neighbor ten miles away called,
Speaker 1: you know, six months or a year ago, then he
Speaker 1: educated the coyotes that you're seeing the tracks and Scaft four.
Speaker 1: So I'll go in and mix it up and I'll
Speaker 1: play a calf ball, I'll play a fawn bleat, I'll
Speaker 1: play chickens, you know what I mean. For rurals, I'll
Speaker 1: play dogs, you know, squalling, I'll play guineafoul. You know,
Speaker 1: I'll play the totally random different sounds that people don't play,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people are nervous to do that. So,
Speaker 1: you know, when I worked with Western Rivers, I was like, man,
Speaker 1: you know, I've used dang year every call on the market,
Speaker 1: and so is everybody else, and it's hard now to
Speaker 1: even find it a call that something hasn't heard. So
Speaker 1: I want to pre record, or I want to record
Speaker 1: some of my own sounds. So we went out and
Speaker 1: and got all kinds of of different sounds that hadn't
Speaker 1: been heard before, and it was awesome, you know, and
Speaker 1: that continually switching it up for for the animals helps huge.
Speaker 1: But to your point about legality and and things, I
Speaker 1: called it a mountain lion. I was telling you before
Speaker 1: this you know podcast, and it was, oh, I don't know,
Speaker 1: about two months ago and I was, you know, behind
Speaker 1: my house on the ranch and set up and I
Speaker 1: had a guy from Arkansas with me actually, and uh,
Speaker 1: I set up my electronic call, my you know, my
Speaker 1: West Drivers call and started calling and we got amazing
Speaker 1: video of a mountain lion just all of a sudden
Speaker 1: it crept up to about twenty artis from the call,
Speaker 1: and then it runs up and literally is standing right
Speaker 1: over my electronic call and my caraman's getting it all
Speaker 1: on video. And I'm like, oh, I got a mountain
Speaker 1: lion tag in my pocket. I can't shoot the lion
Speaker 1: because in Colorado and the aream hunting, you can't use
Speaker 1: an electronic call. Had I been using a mouth call,
Speaker 1: it would have been awesome and I could have used it.
Speaker 1: So I tell people check legalities, you know in areas.
Speaker 1: But you know, a lot of times you have to
Speaker 1: have both in your arsenal mouth calls, you know, as
Speaker 1: well as electronic calls, just so you can hunt not
Speaker 1: only more species, uh, increase your success, but also cover
Speaker 1: the legal side of it. You know what I mean. Okay,
Speaker 1: I just saw a bearer. I just saw a mountain lion.
Speaker 1: All I have is electronic call. I'm out of luck.
Speaker 1: So in areas where you can't use them, so being
Speaker 1: able to pull that mouth call out of your pocket
Speaker 1: or out of your pack and and still be able
Speaker 1: to interact and play and get a chance of the
Speaker 1: animals is huge. The biggest difference to me when I
Speaker 1: tell people, and I'm old enough to where I started
Speaker 1: out with mouth calls, because that's really all they had
Speaker 1: besides the old Johnny Stewart tape players. You know, you
Speaker 1: put the speakers out, and I was I was going
Speaker 1: to tell a funny story about you like changing it up,
Speaker 1: Like I'm convinced the coyotes I hunted back and in
Speaker 1: the old days they like new you know, you can
Speaker 1: start to sing along, like you know the next song
Speaker 1: on the tape and the next sound, like we played
Speaker 1: that same thirty minute tape. You know, It's like these
Speaker 1: coyotes know the next sound that's coming in the next
Speaker 1: sound as well. They knew we'd walk that, Yeah, we'd
Speaker 1: walked down there, flip the tape and hit the play
Speaker 1: button again, you know, and it's like they could they
Speaker 1: could have probably sung our tape, but uh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: changing it up, we didn't do much. You know. We
Speaker 1: would open it up. We'd have two or three tapes
Speaker 1: and they were gonna get one of them and uh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna play, play both sides. That's that's what I
Speaker 1: did all the time. So you know, it's it's funny.
Speaker 1: But now there's such a just such a myriad of
Speaker 1: you know, calls available to people. But I like the
Speaker 1: fact um with the electronic call in. The huge advantage
Speaker 1: to me is when I'm blowing a mouth call, like
Speaker 1: for bears, that bears focused on me, you know, that
Speaker 1: mountain lion, that fox at coyote, that badger that you know,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, it's focused on where that sounds coming from.
Speaker 1: So whether it's a bobcat sneaking in looking for any movement,
Speaker 1: it increases the odds of me getting busted because I'm
Speaker 1: moving my mouth or my head and then I've got
Speaker 1: to drop down and get my weapon, so you know,
Speaker 1: or even if I've got it on you know, on
Speaker 1: a on a you know, tripod or something, I've still
Speaker 1: got a lot more movement with a mouth call, and
Speaker 1: a lot of times that shot is quartering to you,
Speaker 1: coming to you, or if an animal's gonna circle a
Speaker 1: little down wind, he's gonna be behind me or you know,
Speaker 1: off to the quarters and I'm not gonna see that
Speaker 1: animal at all. The huge advantage to electronic calls for
Speaker 1: the guys to take advantage of that distance is putting
Speaker 1: that call out fifty yards from you, so now you
Speaker 1: can have the animal not focused on you, focused on
Speaker 1: the call. It's coming into where that you know noise
Speaker 1: is emanating from. And I love decoys too, because I
Speaker 1: think if you can fool their ears you know to mean,
Speaker 1: but also fool their eyes, You're just increasing more and more.
Speaker 1: And then if you can throw in some scent like
Speaker 1: sometimes I'll use conquest sent around my call if I can.
Speaker 1: You know, the more senses I can fool, the more
Speaker 1: it increases my odds of getting that animal in close.
Speaker 1: But you've got that call out there, the animals coming in,
Speaker 1: it increases the odds of getting a better shot and
Speaker 1: an animal it's not going to spot you and focusing
Speaker 1: that animal on where you want it to go, so
Speaker 1: you know, the for the guys to take their time
Speaker 1: and learn how to set up correctly, it's really you
Speaker 1: can't be an electronic call. It's just you know, with
Speaker 1: with the myriad, you know, a push of a button
Speaker 1: being able to play a lot of different sounds. One
Speaker 1: of the things I did with the Western Rivers call
Speaker 1: Jason is I I put a fifty volume reduction button
Speaker 1: with one hit of the button. Um I found with
Speaker 1: some of the other calls I was using. If I
Speaker 1: had an animal trying to close a distance and and
Speaker 1: a lot of people play the volume way too loud.
Speaker 1: That's another bad mistake a lot of people make. They
Speaker 1: don't realize how far animals can hear. But I still
Speaker 1: wanted to turn the volume down a little bit fast,
Speaker 1: and I found I was hitting that volume button down, down, down,
Speaker 1: down down trying to do it. So I put a
Speaker 1: large button on the remote where, you know, no matter
Speaker 1: what I'm playing, if I hit the button once, it
Speaker 1: reduces a volume by f If I hit the button again,
Speaker 1: it reduces it again by So if I have something
Speaker 1: out there that's holding up, you know, man, I can
Speaker 1: drop the volume, you know what I mean, and and
Speaker 1: and start to bring them in because realistically, when you've
Speaker 1: got something dying, it doesn't stay the same volume. It
Speaker 1: fluctuates high well, and it trails out, you know what
Speaker 1: it's you know, and all the coyotes, Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: how that is. It's just it's those little bitty things
Speaker 1: to me that make a huge difference. And you know,
Speaker 1: I grew up watching the Wayne Carlton videos you calling bears,
Speaker 1: And you know one thing that is always you know
Speaker 1: about bears is they can lose interest really quick. You know,
Speaker 1: during that calling, you might get him to commit, but
Speaker 1: somewhere along the way, you know they're chasing a squirrel
Speaker 1: or they're you know, they're just like they they lose interest.
Speaker 1: You know what, do you have any tips or techniques,
Speaker 1: especially if you can't see the bear? I know you
Speaker 1: you prefer to see him, but if you can't, like
Speaker 1: are your guys as are your sounds on the western rivers?
Speaker 1: Or when you running a mouth call, like, are you
Speaker 1: like try to limit the gaps or how do you
Speaker 1: do that to make sure that you don't kind of
Speaker 1: lose that bears interest along the way. Since the places
Speaker 1: I hunt you can't use an electron and call for bears,
Speaker 1: all my bear calling has been done with a mouth
Speaker 1: call um And to try and keep a bear interested,
Speaker 1: one you know, again, to go back to it. When
Speaker 1: I can see the bear, I'm gauging the bears reaction.
Speaker 1: Do I need to if he starts to lose interest,
Speaker 1: you know, or starts to turn off, or you know,
Speaker 1: you can see he smells something that's gonna go over
Speaker 1: there for a minute, I'm gonna change my volume. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna start kicking more brush. I'm gonna do something to
Speaker 1: make it go. Wait, something just changed over there. So
Speaker 1: you know, I'm constantly trying to do those little things
Speaker 1: to keep them, um, you know, from from losing interest,
Speaker 1: like you said, because they do get distracted. The other
Speaker 1: thing is when I'm calling bears, I don't stop calling.
Speaker 1: I call NonStop. A lot of times guys calling coyotes
Speaker 1: or use the mouth call and I used to do
Speaker 1: it too, but just because I needed to take a breath,
Speaker 1: or my lips or my cheeks are sore, you know,
Speaker 1: you'd call for a minute, take a break, call from minute,
Speaker 1: take a break. With bears, I call NonStop. I do
Speaker 1: not stop calling. And again, because like you say, I
Speaker 1: think bears are a lot like I am. You know, squirrel,
Speaker 1: you know, go over here, you know, and to totally
Speaker 1: totally just get off track, So I try to not
Speaker 1: give them that break. Once I get them reacting at all,
Speaker 1: I try and keep pouring it on so they'll keep reacting. Um.
Speaker 1: And then that calling non stop brings up the question
Speaker 1: how long are you calling on a on a normal
Speaker 1: bear set um? You know, I guess if you can
Speaker 1: see him, that changes the game because you're you know,
Speaker 1: he's still interested, or you can still keep going. But
Speaker 1: say it's you know, non visible bear or somewhat cold
Speaker 1: set up, like how long are you calling? How long
Speaker 1: are you waiting before you change spots? Yeah, if I'm
Speaker 1: blind calling, I'll just call five minutes there as long
Speaker 1: as you know, tell my lips and you know my
Speaker 1: cheeks were out, you know what I mean. And I'll
Speaker 1: fluctuate from low too high. And blind calling is a
Speaker 1: little more difficult for me because when I can see
Speaker 1: the bear, I'm more excited. I can I can go longer,
Speaker 1: kind of like if you're competing with your buddy doing
Speaker 1: push ups, you can do more because you're watching him,
Speaker 1: you know, like, oh, I'm gonna get more. That's the
Speaker 1: same way to me if I'm watching a bear and
Speaker 1: he's reacting to the camp man you know, all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, I've got a little more energy, i can
Speaker 1: get some more lung power. I'm gonna ignore my my
Speaker 1: lips that are starting to get a little number, my
Speaker 1: cheeks that are starting to get a little sore, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep going. Um Whereas if I'm blind calling,
Speaker 1: I even start to lose interest. You know, it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know I've been calling for a few minutes here
Speaker 1: and now doesn't show enough. You know, I'm gonna knock
Speaker 1: it off. So you know, as opposed to if I
Speaker 1: was running electronic call, if it was legal where I'm at,
Speaker 1: I would play probably a lot longer, you know, fifteen
Speaker 1: to twenty minutes something like that. But you know, when
Speaker 1: I'm when i'm calling, I go as much as I
Speaker 1: can until until I lose interesting, go time to move.
Speaker 1: You've kind of alluded to this next question a little
Speaker 1: bit earlier on Based on the size of the bearer
Speaker 1: you want to call in, but you change your calls, um,
Speaker 1: like through spring if you're in an area that has
Speaker 1: a spring season, like will you start with you know,
Speaker 1: falls and cows as they drop or are you always
Speaker 1: gonna stay? You know, are you gonna stay away from
Speaker 1: rabbit since you don't want to call in the small bears,
Speaker 1: even though it will work on bigger ones, like what's
Speaker 1: your approach um based on time of the year. And
Speaker 1: then also, um, you know the bear that you're targeting
Speaker 1: or that you'd like to come into your calls, like
Speaker 1: what calls are your go to and how do you
Speaker 1: kind of think about that? Right, and I'll switch it up,
Speaker 1: you know, like you said, you know, if it's spraying
Speaker 1: and there's you know, animals on the ground, um a
Speaker 1: lot of times or you know, it works in the
Speaker 1: fall to all bears are used to eating baby dear baby, elk,
Speaker 1: baby moose, depending on where they're at. So you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of times I'll go to the diaphragm, or
Speaker 1: I'll go to a predator call that I can make
Speaker 1: it a little bit more even tone instead of fluctuated
Speaker 1: so much to make it sound like you know, a
Speaker 1: dying moose, calf or falling or something like that. But
Speaker 1: I have a lot of luck with that. But I
Speaker 1: found you know, big bears will react to the small
Speaker 1: you know, small stuff as well. So again I prefer
Speaker 1: to spot them and look at them and then call
Speaker 1: to him and you know, sometimes I'll totally change it.
Speaker 1: If I'm giving them a you know, just allowed you know,
Speaker 1: predator call that's basically an improvised rabbit. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: just it's a squall and I'm I'm doing it. They're
Speaker 1: not reacting. Well, I may switch it up real quick
Speaker 1: and go to a diaphragm and you know, or try
Speaker 1: and make it sound more like a fawn and see
Speaker 1: if that all of a sudden makes him go, oh,
Speaker 1: this sounds good, or vice versa. Sometimes I'll start out
Speaker 1: with a bear. You know, I may see a big
Speaker 1: bear and go, man, I'm gonna I'm gonna start calling
Speaker 1: that one and try and make it react, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: to a moose or you know, a calf sound, and
Speaker 1: and see how it does. And if it doesn't, then
Speaker 1: I'll switch it up to it just a long squalling,
Speaker 1: just noisemaker. It sounds like something dying. Um. And again
Speaker 1: a lot of that depends too. You know, I've been
Speaker 1: up in the Yukon calling grizzlies, and you know that's
Speaker 1: a that's a little scary proposition to it's fun. But again,
Speaker 1: I try to look to where I can I can
Speaker 1: see a little bit and have a little bit of
Speaker 1: distance or or whether I'm calling in wolves or you know,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Um you know, and I've only called
Speaker 1: two wolves into the call, but you know, still exciting.
Speaker 1: I've I've probably called it more than that that I
Speaker 1: didn't see, but I've called to in that I actually
Speaker 1: shot on videos, so those were kind of neat. But
Speaker 1: you know, when it's a grizzly and things like that,
Speaker 1: anything that that bear is gonna react to, whether it's
Speaker 1: a you know, fawn or you know almost and I
Speaker 1: say moose, but you know, like a half of anything,
Speaker 1: a fallen a you know, a calf that sounds right,
Speaker 1: and it's reacting, and I'm just gonna keep hitting on that.
Speaker 1: If it's not reacting and I can see it, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go through. I'm gonna throw everything at it but
Speaker 1: the kitchen sink and see if I can hit the
Speaker 1: right sound that causes it to react. And the other
Speaker 1: thing with this very similar Sorry go ahead, no, I
Speaker 1: was gonna say, very similar to ELK calling. You know,
Speaker 1: everybody thinks we have like this perfect cookie cutter, like
Speaker 1: you know, you're gonna do this and this, and it's
Speaker 1: like it's really you know, I relate it back to
Speaker 1: bass fishing. You know, you show up to the bass
Speaker 1: spot and you're gonna throw a plug, You're gonna throw
Speaker 1: a buzz bait, You're gonna you know, throw a jig,
Speaker 1: and just try to figure out, like what's catching fish
Speaker 1: in this area. You know, the same thing for Elk,
Speaker 1: same thing it sounds like for for Barry. You're just
Speaker 1: gonna throw everything at him and see, like, all right,
Speaker 1: what gets him to turn my way and commit? And
Speaker 1: then if I give him a little bit more, you know,
Speaker 1: is he going to continue on or is he gonna
Speaker 1: lose interest? Then you know, try to find the next
Speaker 1: thing that's working right and and and it's funny because
Speaker 1: just like that was a great analogy with the bass fishing,
Speaker 1: and I think I mentioned other the bears are just
Speaker 1: so across the board with their personality least if you
Speaker 1: will or you know their dominance or you know whether
Speaker 1: the dominant or subordinate um. You know, I've I've run
Speaker 1: bears off that I thought this is a done deal.
Speaker 1: You know, Sometimes when I close a distance too close,
Speaker 1: you know, if I see a bear at three hundred yards,
Speaker 1: for example, I may trying close to you know, a
Speaker 1: hundred fifty yards, you know, before trying to call it,
Speaker 1: or a hundred yards and then trying to call it.
Speaker 1: So but I've got I've got video of slipping up
Speaker 1: or I thought, man, look at this giant bear. He's
Speaker 1: gonna come running in. And I know he probably has
Speaker 1: never heard a call. But for some reason I did something,
Speaker 1: or I was too aggressive, or it just wasn't worth
Speaker 1: a fight to him that day, whatever, but you know
Speaker 1: where they just went. Now I'm out of here and
Speaker 1: took off. So you know, to your point, you're you're
Speaker 1: playing around. But that's what's fun about it. You're you're
Speaker 1: you're you're playing different things. But what works with one bear,
Speaker 1: or what scenario works with one, or what sound works
Speaker 1: with one may not work at all, uh for the
Speaker 1: next one. But I I do want to say again
Speaker 1: that people have to be very cognizant because I have
Speaker 1: had um some so I won't say negative because they're
Speaker 1: all exciting, uh, but some reactions from stals with cubs
Speaker 1: where they will they'll get pretty aggressive and I don't
Speaker 1: know if they think it's one of their cubs. Um
Speaker 1: that's you know, that's getting hurt or there or it's
Speaker 1: a like a protective measure. Um, but I've had him
Speaker 1: coming pretty hard to that, um you know as well.
Speaker 1: And and again, like I said, I'm I'm not scared
Speaker 1: of my mess with him all the time. I slap
Speaker 1: them on the butt when they come into the dumpster.
Speaker 1: You know, my my wife was with me one time.
Speaker 1: We were cal calling elk and you and me were
Speaker 1: talking about that's where you've had a lot of your encounters,
Speaker 1: is you know, your cal calling and that tells you
Speaker 1: how many how many elk? You know, bears eat. But
Speaker 1: we had a black bear literally stalking us, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know my office like, what what are we gonna do?
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna try and treat him. So
Speaker 1: I let him get really close, and you know, stupid,
Speaker 1: but you know I took off running and barking like
Speaker 1: a dog at him as quick as I could. And
Speaker 1: because I was so close to him, it startled him
Speaker 1: and he jumped up a tree, and you know, I
Speaker 1: thought it was awesome, and she's you're just not quite
Speaker 1: all there, are you. So yeah, that was the other
Speaker 1: That's my other main encounter with black bears is them
Speaker 1: trying to get like meat out of the back of
Speaker 1: the truck or messing with we've you're running the bear
Speaker 1: up a tree story like, you know, trying to yank
Speaker 1: one of my um capes out of you know, just
Speaker 1: finish up an ltcout. We're just gonna keep the meat
Speaker 1: in the back of the truck for for one night,
Speaker 1: you know what, until we can get off the mountain.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's either yanking the meat out of
Speaker 1: the truck, yanking the heads and hides and capes, and
Speaker 1: they're just, yeah, I'm not as I'm not as uh
Speaker 1: courageous around bears though. I just I feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: for the most part, they are going to run. But
Speaker 1: if they decided to turn or decided to to to
Speaker 1: stand their ground, like I'm probably gonna lose that one
Speaker 1: real quickly. I've had a couple of a couple of
Speaker 1: pucker me up a little bit. Yep yep. So you
Speaker 1: just mentioned, you know, calling grizz or calling in you know,
Speaker 1: in grizzly country, do you do anything different? You know,
Speaker 1: I would say that, you know, you can't hunt grizzly
Speaker 1: in the in the lower forty eight um, you know
Speaker 1: where we do a lot of this black beard calling. Um,
Speaker 1: if you're calling in grizzly Country. Is there anything you
Speaker 1: would do differently or you know, like you say, it
Speaker 1: can be a little bit different of an experience. So
Speaker 1: you're still trying to call black bearn in grizzly Country,
Speaker 1: Like what are you changing from your normal setup? And
Speaker 1: and how do you kind of just add a couple
Speaker 1: extra layers of safety to the to the set up.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And I'm gonna tell you the same thing
Speaker 1: like I've done on Kodiak Island when you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, I've I've called for brown bears they're trying
Speaker 1: to get a you know, get a reaction. Or even
Speaker 1: when I was calling Fox, you know, I had a
Speaker 1: captain of a boat look at me and go, you're
Speaker 1: not spenn You're gonna be out there on you know,
Speaker 1: on that island. You're you're calling red Fox in, but
Speaker 1: a brown bear may come running down your neck, you know.
Speaker 1: And don't get me wrong, it's a little bigger pucker factor.
Speaker 1: But I totally set up differently just for the safety factor.
Speaker 1: You know a lot of times I'll either have a
Speaker 1: cameraman or you know, somebody else with me, and you know,
Speaker 1: I'm looking where can I see everywhere? When you know,
Speaker 1: where can something not slip up on me to where
Speaker 1: they literally flipped the tables on me, and and and
Speaker 1: they've got the advantage. So you know, I'll set up
Speaker 1: places where I can see. Then what's my next step?
Speaker 1: You know almost you know, literally I'll strategize what's what's
Speaker 1: my step if something goes south? In other words, um,
Speaker 1: souath cubs comes running in and I can't stop her,
Speaker 1: you know by yelling and shut my mouth. You know,
Speaker 1: at what point, where's my safety zone? Where do I
Speaker 1: you know, where am I going to shoot around off
Speaker 1: in front of her to try and scare or just
Speaker 1: shoot around off you know where? Where's my where's my move?
Speaker 1: After that? So yeah, I do totally change it up.
Speaker 1: Bear spray is another great, you know, great idea. I
Speaker 1: still prefer a weapon, but bear spray is another great idea. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, when you're calling in areas where where the
Speaker 1: bears are a little bigger and a little more serious. Um,
Speaker 1: same thing though with the with the black bears, you
Speaker 1: gotta be cognizanto that as well. I try and set
Speaker 1: up where I've got a little bit of room, um
Speaker 1: to react to him. My buddy's got room to react
Speaker 1: to or my client has room to react. Um. Not
Speaker 1: like the story of the musleader guy that freaked out
Speaker 1: and just cranked off around because he was scared of death.
Speaker 1: It would have been so neat. But um, that's one
Speaker 1: of the ones that just still I was like, man,
Speaker 1: you know, it's just such a neat one running off
Speaker 1: the hill and charge it all the way in. But um,
Speaker 1: so yeah, that that's a great question. And yeah, just
Speaker 1: for the safe the aspect of that, it's really a
Speaker 1: good idea for guys to have, you know, a backup.
Speaker 1: What's my plan? You know, it's my handgun here next
Speaker 1: to me? Um, you know where's my rifle? Do I
Speaker 1: have bear spray? Um? And and what's my I try
Speaker 1: to predetermine a distance um that you know, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm not comfortable if it's us out with cubs before
Speaker 1: it gets so close that I'm gonna force that sout,
Speaker 1: you know, make her she's gonna have to come at me.
Speaker 1: You know, I want to try and get her turned
Speaker 1: around at a safe distance where she has tons of
Speaker 1: time to realize, oh, hey, this isn't what I thought
Speaker 1: it was. And you know, I want to get out
Speaker 1: of here. So you know, I try and set that
Speaker 1: because I've seen firsthand, you know, uh, you know, I've
Speaker 1: been charged by leopards, I've been charged by you know,
Speaker 1: grizzlly bears. I've been charged by black bears. So I've
Speaker 1: I've seen how quick they can come, how quickly things
Speaker 1: can go south. So I try and have that buffer.
Speaker 1: Another great safety tip is to always put your camera
Speaker 1: in the cameraman in the direction you expect those grizzlies
Speaker 1: to come from, and make sure they're portly. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: want to definitely have a you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: a heavy set, you know cameraman. I could not agree more.
Speaker 1: Is it is there anything Fred that you feel is
Speaker 1: vital or extremely important to calling bears? We haven't touched on,
Speaker 1: like you know, set up um, like what you're looking
Speaker 1: for in your setup. You'd already mentioned you you'd like
Speaker 1: to be able to see um, you know, and see
Speaker 1: their approach and use that distance of the electronic call,
Speaker 1: which you know sometimes you can or can't use. Is
Speaker 1: there anything else you know if you're going out um
Speaker 1: black bear calling UM that that you think is important
Speaker 1: to the success, you know, the experience, uh, the wind,
Speaker 1: of course, you know, I didn't really you know, talk
Speaker 1: about the wind, of course, but you know wind is
Speaker 1: wind is huge because bears can't see great. I play
Speaker 1: shadows um whenever I can. You know, I'd much rather
Speaker 1: have you know, the sun to my back, um when
Speaker 1: I you know, when I can um. I also tell
Speaker 1: guys not to get disappointed. In other words, you know,
Speaker 1: when you're blind calling. Like I said, I like to
Speaker 1: think I have a little experience and and calling all
Speaker 1: kinds of different predators and you know, been with what
Speaker 1: I know and and reading sign and if I'm in
Speaker 1: a great area, one out of twenty, you know, that's
Speaker 1: not that great. A lot of people get disappointed really quick.
Speaker 1: So I tell people, man, if you want to do it,
Speaker 1: look at it as a challenge and and and keep going.
Speaker 1: It will work. You'll find the right bear, You'll you'll
Speaker 1: hit the right call. Just go ing till it works,
Speaker 1: because once it works, just like l calling or anything else,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be hopelessly addicted, and you're gonna be, you know,
Speaker 1: looking for that next bear that just comes running in
Speaker 1: and and reacts to you. And it's so exciting because
Speaker 1: it's different. You know, the mountain lion I called in
Speaker 1: the other day. That was awesome. You know, it's just
Speaker 1: neat to call in you know different apex predators. Uh,
Speaker 1: wind is super important. A lot of guys don't think
Speaker 1: of where they walked in. You alluded to that earlier. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, same with you know a lot of species.
Speaker 1: UM guys think, oh, if I just walk through here,
Speaker 1: it's okay. But you know, I walk where the animals
Speaker 1: knocking across where I walk. When it's coming into a
Speaker 1: call um for black bears or grass these or or
Speaker 1: anything else. I try and have a natural obstacle when
Speaker 1: I can. Uh, if I've got a creek or river, um,
Speaker 1: you know something that I can put big, a big
Speaker 1: boulder on my back, you know what I mean, or
Speaker 1: back up against it. Something where something can't come behind
Speaker 1: me super quick, or if it's circling around or coming
Speaker 1: in from behind me where I don't expect it, I
Speaker 1: can hear it coming across you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: water or coming through leaves. So I probably spend way
Speaker 1: more time picking the right set up then I do
Speaker 1: actually calling anything, whether that's a coyote, a bobcat, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, you know, a bear. I'm spending
Speaker 1: as much time going you know, where do I need
Speaker 1: to be? What's the best position? Where's the sun? Where
Speaker 1: can I be in the shade? Um? What can I
Speaker 1: do defensively if I need to? Um? You know, so
Speaker 1: I spend honestly, for sure, every single set up. I
Speaker 1: spend more time picking the right place to set up
Speaker 1: than I do actually calling that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: So I gotta ask you a couple of questions that
Speaker 1: you know, probably debatable, but I want your opinion on it. Eyesight,
Speaker 1: you know, if you're in the shade. You know, everybody
Speaker 1: knows that bears can't see great and you're opinion like
Speaker 1: if you're out in the open versus in the shade,
Speaker 1: Like when can a bear finally see you? You know,
Speaker 1: you see a lot of people approach, you know if
Speaker 1: they're on the shore. Um. You know, people will drop
Speaker 1: off the boat a couple hundred yards away and they
Speaker 1: what seems to me as a deer and an elk hunter. Um,
Speaker 1: it's like, man, it's gonna pick you off anytime, But
Speaker 1: like what what distance do you feel? Like? All right,
Speaker 1: a bear is gonna see you and you're gonna spook it.
Speaker 1: So I think bears are a lot like us this
Speaker 1: is just my opinion. Um. You know, people always say, oh,
Speaker 1: they're blind, they're you know, they can't see very well.
Speaker 1: I think bears see about as good as people do. Um.
Speaker 1: So I look at it like a person, and I
Speaker 1: can hide from a person really easy. You know, you
Speaker 1: can get in there and you know, brushing and people
Speaker 1: spot movement more than they spot anything else, but if
Speaker 1: it's tucked back in the brush, so you know, and
Speaker 1: I related to hogs, um, you know. You know everybody say, oh,
Speaker 1: hogs are blind. You go to an area in Texas
Speaker 1: that's been hunted hard by hogs, and you watch how
Speaker 1: quick a hog will pick you up when you slip
Speaker 1: out into an open sindarow or down the road, that
Speaker 1: thing will look up see you just see that movement
Speaker 1: and it's out of there. So you know, I like
Speaker 1: to think that that that bears can see a little
Speaker 1: better than a lot of people give them credit for
Speaker 1: just some things I've seen. So, like I said, I
Speaker 1: I don't totally disservice them by by by saying I
Speaker 1: think they're blind. Um, I just assume they could see
Speaker 1: like me. And I'm doing everything I can to try
Speaker 1: and hide and and you know, again, that can be
Speaker 1: full cameo, that can be just not only camo, but
Speaker 1: taking advantage of the shadows getting back in the bushes.
Speaker 1: You know, if it's bright out and you're looking into
Speaker 1: the bushes, you know, how often are you kind of
Speaker 1: squinting or you're looking It's like, what is that? Did
Speaker 1: I see something? Since the bears coming into you know, uh,
Speaker 1: something dying. I don't mind them seeing some movement. I
Speaker 1: really I think it's great. You know, that's natural. I
Speaker 1: don't mind them hearing brush going, So I don't mind
Speaker 1: them seeing some movement. I just don't want them to
Speaker 1: silhouette me. You know, I don't want like, you know,
Speaker 1: the background of my window here, you know, at my house.
Speaker 1: I don't want them to to to catch me, you know,
Speaker 1: moving in an open silhouette situation, and like this, I'd
Speaker 1: rather have it to where they can see something in
Speaker 1: the brush, like, oh, something may be flipping around on
Speaker 1: the ground there, you know, there's something something is getting
Speaker 1: eating over there. Um. But yeah, I I assume that
Speaker 1: they can see about like people, because I've just seen
Speaker 1: too many circumstances where you know, but bears just aren't scared.
Speaker 1: They're not you know. Again, it's a difference between you know,
Speaker 1: a carnivore and and and you know, even though bears
Speaker 1: are omnivores and they eat everything, you know, and a
Speaker 1: prey species, so a predator verse I guess I should
Speaker 1: say a predator species versus a you know, a prey species.
Speaker 1: When you're a deer or other animals, you're spooked out
Speaker 1: all the time. And the majority of the states with
Speaker 1: black bears, they're kind of right up there. There's not
Speaker 1: something that's gonna steak up and jump on the back
Speaker 1: of a black bear very often. So they're just not nervous.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people take that as a
Speaker 1: man they can't really see or they're not really paying attention. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think they're just walking around like, what's gonna mess
Speaker 1: with me unless it's another bear? Yeah, yep, just my
Speaker 1: very similar No. No, that that makes a ton of sense. Um.
Speaker 1: And so we're gonna go on to smell just a
Speaker 1: little bit in your opinion on that. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: Clay Newcom and and Ronella we're hunting on one episode
Speaker 1: and they're convinced at the bear winded him like eight yards, um,
Speaker 1: you know, and now they say, you know, it was.
Speaker 1: It was six or seven of the guys, you know,
Speaker 1: camera guys, producers, everything that's that's on a set. But
Speaker 1: in your opinion, if you had to make a loop
Speaker 1: around a bear and the bear was down wind of you, like,
Speaker 1: what would be your like safety distance that? Like I
Speaker 1: I can move it four yards, five yards, but you
Speaker 1: have to go a thousand yards? Like how how far away?
Speaker 1: You know, let's say five mile hour cross one. Let's
Speaker 1: let's put some parameters on it. You know, fairly steady.
Speaker 1: You're not dealing with mountain thermals. But where would a
Speaker 1: bear be able to pick you up? You know, scent wise? Man,
Speaker 1: I gotta go with you know, with Kate, with with
Speaker 1: you know, Clay and Ronella on this one. It's ridiculously
Speaker 1: long waves. I mean half a mile, you know, three
Speaker 1: quarters of a mile. Um, and I'd still hope that
Speaker 1: the thermals were bringing it over them. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: bears could smell a route, um. You know, they could
Speaker 1: smell a carcass from a ridiculous long ways away. They
Speaker 1: can figure out which acorns are dropping, wear and and
Speaker 1: and head to them. You know, they can smell where
Speaker 1: a salve walked days before and pick up that scent
Speaker 1: and trail it up. So you know, there their ability
Speaker 1: to smell danger or smell a person um is exceptional.
Speaker 1: And I would put it, you know, you know, on
Speaker 1: par if not even better to you know, a deer
Speaker 1: or anything else there. Uh, it's amazing to watch what
Speaker 1: a bear can can smell. And like I said, even
Speaker 1: the roots and and things they go after and digging
Speaker 1: them up in the ground. Um, they've got an excellent
Speaker 1: you know, an excellent sense of smell. And yeah, it
Speaker 1: doesn't surprise me at all. Uh, you know, eight yards no,
Speaker 1: especially if that wind was going right at the bear,
Speaker 1: no problem at all they didn't have if they didn't
Speaker 1: get lucky and get thermals, you know, carrying the wind
Speaker 1: up over him or or past him somehow. Yeah, i'd uh,
Speaker 1: I'd say that wouldn't surprise me a bit. So you know,
Speaker 1: as far as I can, as far as I can circle,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes I just gamble and go, man, I
Speaker 1: hope this half mile or took cord of mile circle
Speaker 1: is enough. Um. But you know, as far as as
Speaker 1: far as I can or am willing to and and
Speaker 1: and hope for the best. That makes makes a ton
Speaker 1: of sense. Like I say, my some of my latest
Speaker 1: bear encounters have been them trying to get stuff out
Speaker 1: of the back of my truck on a hunt. And
Speaker 1: it's like you know where they yeah, yeah, or did they?
Speaker 1: They'd be pulled this thing in from a mile or two,
Speaker 1: you know, just then being able to smell the meat
Speaker 1: and and whatnot. So yeah, I I they got a great,
Speaker 1: great sense of smell. And as you alluded to, like
Speaker 1: whatever you think is far enough, go farther or make
Speaker 1: sure you go you know, down wind to the bear
Speaker 1: and not risk it at all. It is amazing the
Speaker 1: difference in bear z and you just brought that up.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you'll have one bear that will
Speaker 1: run from you know, human scent from you know, half
Speaker 1: a mile, three course a mile just because of the
Speaker 1: experiences that bears have with people maybe or you know,
Speaker 1: whatever that is. And then the next bear will come
Speaker 1: towards you, like you know, even a black bear, like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go check that out. You know what, what
Speaker 1: what's that smell? Or you know, I wonder if they
Speaker 1: have something to eat, you know, or you know, there's
Speaker 1: a guy in town here in Trinidad that's a you know,
Speaker 1: that's a rapper and been around you know, this country
Speaker 1: and bears his whole life. And he was literally walking
Speaker 1: through the woods and he said he looked up, saw
Speaker 1: a bear a few a few hundred yards away, and
Speaker 1: look back and the bear was just charging him no reason.
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't messing with the bear, it wasn't
Speaker 1: a stade with cubs. And he was like, Fred, it
Speaker 1: was the craziest thing I've ever seen, Like it charged me.
Speaker 1: And you know, I've had guides get charged and things
Speaker 1: like that, mostly salds with cubs, you know, and bluff
Speaker 1: charges or they come right up to them. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's bizarre how one bear will react one way
Speaker 1: um and another one lot react totally differently based on
Speaker 1: their experiences or their fear, or their age or their dominance,
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm sure you've seen that with with bates.
Speaker 1: I've seen that when I was painting bears. You know,
Speaker 1: you could walk into a bait and you know, one
Speaker 1: bear just take off, scare to death as soon as
Speaker 1: he saw you or you know, heard you or smell you,
Speaker 1: and the next one it won't leave. It's like, Nope,
Speaker 1: this is mine. I'm gonna protect it. And it's been
Speaker 1: the same with carcasses I've had, you know, I've had
Speaker 1: bears not leave el carcasses or deer carcass you know,
Speaker 1: whereas other ones they just see it through the trees
Speaker 1: and they take off next bears like, no, this is
Speaker 1: my carcass and you need to go so kind of neat.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna give my my one tip at least
Speaker 1: for what I've learned through bear hunting. Then we're gonna
Speaker 1: ask you for your your one tip. You know, you're
Speaker 1: you're something that could change the change the outcome for
Speaker 1: somebody has maybe not been successful. And for me, a
Speaker 1: lot of it comes back to um, you know, and
Speaker 1: it won't necessarily be a barret calling, but it's more
Speaker 1: UM being patient. Like I don't have a whole lot
Speaker 1: of patients. I'm the most you know, most aggressive elk caller. Um.
Speaker 1: If if something doesn't happen, I'm gonna move and make
Speaker 1: it work. But for me, like bear hunting, I just
Speaker 1: had to become a little more patient. It just I
Speaker 1: wasn't going to be successful. You know, whether it's it's
Speaker 1: glass ng spotting, stocking, even calling, you know, it's a
Speaker 1: lot of our kyote sets um. You know, we would
Speaker 1: have a kyote five ten minutes of turning the call
Speaker 1: and they'd be there. But Barrett, it's like, all right,
Speaker 1: we need twenty thirty forty you know, and then maybe
Speaker 1: wait a little bit longer. Um. And so for me,
Speaker 1: it was just learning patients, spending more time behind the
Speaker 1: glass um, you know, and then looking at layers. You
Speaker 1: know a lot of people when I look for deer
Speaker 1: and elk, it's like I'm looking for something you know,
Speaker 1: very very obvious, very and then I can spend more
Speaker 1: time looking in different areas where bear if they if
Speaker 1: you're not able to see them. And some people say,
Speaker 1: you know, you should just keep moving until you find bear,
Speaker 1: but um, we're looking at the second or third layer
Speaker 1: deep because a lot of times it was bear, at
Speaker 1: least around my area. They get hung up on a
Speaker 1: food source and they might not leave it for thirty minutes.
Speaker 1: And if you don't, you know, that could be your
Speaker 1: whole glassing session. If you can't find that bear, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, pulling down a huckleberry bush or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: you're just not going to be very successful. Um. So
Speaker 1: my my one tip would be, you know, be a
Speaker 1: little more patient, stay a little bit longer, glass a
Speaker 1: little bit longer, call a little bit longer, and you're
Speaker 1: gonna find a little more success black bear hunting. But
Speaker 1: what would your your one tip be, Fred? Then, you know,
Speaker 1: for the one tip again, like you, I kind of
Speaker 1: mirror the whole. Don't get disappointed. You know it doesn't
Speaker 1: happen every time. Um, I'd like to increase my odds.
Speaker 1: You know, my probably favorite time is in the fall
Speaker 1: because bears are feeding, you know before they go into hibernation,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty hours a day, So the bears are
Speaker 1: out more. Um, they're covering more country. They're trying to
Speaker 1: really load up on on food before they go to
Speaker 1: the you know, hibernation, so they'll be eating a lot more.
Speaker 1: Now they may stay closer to where they're gonna again,
Speaker 1: but they're gonna be out a lot more. So I
Speaker 1: tell guys, man, yea, the falls a great time. But
Speaker 1: don't get discouraged. Just keep going and learn to read
Speaker 1: sign so you increase your odds of spotting that bear
Speaker 1: to try and call it or blind call and have
Speaker 1: one come in. Well, thank you very much, Fred for
Speaker 1: all of your bear calling experience. Um, you know your
Speaker 1: tips and tactics. We really appreciate having you on here.
Speaker 1: And Fred, let all the listeners know how they can
Speaker 1: get a hold of you, where they can find you,
Speaker 1: where they can follow you and see some of these, um,
Speaker 1: you know, bear calling videos and experiences. Well thanks, you
Speaker 1: don't I've got a YouTube page, Fred Aikler YouTube. They
Speaker 1: can go to Fred Eichler fan page. I've got an Instagram,
Speaker 1: Facebook and all that good stuff, and then go on
Speaker 1: there and see some of the things that we've actually
Speaker 1: been talking about today. All right, everybody go check out Fred. Um,
Speaker 1: if you don't know who he is, I'm sure you do,
Speaker 1: but uh, you know, uh wealth of knowledge on everything
Speaker 1: big game. But um, you know, he's got this predator
Speaker 1: thing dialed. So we appreciate having him on the day. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you, Jason, it's great talking to you. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: And good luck calling and this fall as well. All right,
Speaker 1: take care, Fred M two