Speaker 1: You interact with your children in a way that you're
Speaker 1: certainly going to make mistakes. Everybody makes mistakes all the time,
Speaker 1: but you're gonna be able to see them take a
Speaker 1: step back, figure out how to fix it, and then
Speaker 1: just keep moving. That was Carol Sutton Lewis explaining her
Speaker 1: perspective on parenting. Every week she tackles that topic with
Speaker 1: a lineup of impressive guests on her show Ground Control Parenting,
Speaker 1: which just launched on the Seneca Women Podcast Network. On
Speaker 1: iHeart I'm the land Ververe and this is senecas one
Speaker 1: Women to Hear, we are bringing you one hundred of
Speaker 1: the world's most inspiring and history making women you need
Speaker 1: to hear. Carol Sutton Lewis is an attorney and activist
Speaker 1: who has made a decades long study of child rearing
Speaker 1: and education. Her podcast, Ground Control Parenting is a resource
Speaker 1: for parents of black and brown children, with a particular
Speaker 1: focus on boys. Its goal is to help parents develop smart, thoughtful,
Speaker 1: confident boys and girls, and any parent of any background
Speaker 1: can benefit from the podcast, as Carol. Because so many
Speaker 1: parenting issues are universal, listen and learn why. Carol Sutton
Speaker 1: Lewis is one of Seneca's one hundred women to hear.
Speaker 1: I'm speaking today with Carol Sutton Lewis, the founder and
Speaker 1: host of Ground Control parenting podcast. Welcome Carol, it's such
Speaker 1: a pleasure to have you with us today. Thank you.
Speaker 1: It's so great to be here. Now. I know you're
Speaker 1: a lawyer and activists and you're highly involved in the arts.
Speaker 1: In addition, you have this wonderful podcast that we want
Speaker 1: to talk some about. Why did you decide to create
Speaker 1: a podcast about raising smart, thought full, confident black children,
Speaker 1: particularly boys. Well, I'll start by saying, I'm the mother
Speaker 1: of three children, and from the early days, as soon
Speaker 1: as they were born, I discovered, much to my surprise,
Speaker 1: a burning desire to sort of focus on parenting skills. Um.
Speaker 1: I had a great childhood, I had great parents, but
Speaker 1: for reasons I will certainly get into a little bit later,
Speaker 1: I knew that parenting, the parenting skill sets were things
Speaker 1: that could be improved upon, and I was really focused
Speaker 1: on how I could be the best parent that I
Speaker 1: could be. So I started out by creating a blog.
Speaker 1: I I did a lot of research. I mean, lawyer
Speaker 1: that I am, I sort of dove into the research
Speaker 1: I studied. I was in parenting groups. And after I
Speaker 1: had amassed all this information, and as my kids got
Speaker 1: a little older, I decided it would be helpful to
Speaker 1: put this out into the universe so that others could
Speaker 1: benefit from it. And so I started a blog, ground
Speaker 1: Control Parenting, and I wrote for the blog for several years,
Speaker 1: and then I decided that I wanted to have more
Speaker 1: interaction with an audience. I taught a parenting class at
Speaker 1: Hunter College in its continuing Education program and that was great,
Speaker 1: except that with all the work that preparing for a
Speaker 1: class took, I figured I could reach a much broader
Speaker 1: audience if I moved this to a podcast. And so
Speaker 1: that's really how it all came to be. That's how
Speaker 1: I hit the airwaves. But I've always been interested in
Speaker 1: raising children, but particularly black children. I mean, that's what
Speaker 1: I have. But also that is um, parenting is a
Speaker 1: challenge generally, but it can be even a bit more challenging,
Speaker 1: I think, UM, when you're raising children who have for
Speaker 1: a variety of reasons and extra uh issues to be
Speaker 1: concerned about, to be aware about, and which can impact
Speaker 1: how they grow up. Yeah, that's so well said, and
Speaker 1: we're really glad you decided to take up podcasting to
Speaker 1: share all of that knowledge and experience with your audiences,
Speaker 1: certainly broader audiences. Now you've made a lifelong study of
Speaker 1: education as well, which you sort of hinted at. What
Speaker 1: did your own experiences of child rearing teach you about
Speaker 1: raising black boys and how is that different from raising
Speaker 1: girls because you're also parenting a daughter. Yes, absolutely, I
Speaker 1: have a daughter and two sons, And so, as I
Speaker 1: said earlier, I had a great childhood. I I grew
Speaker 1: up with mom and dad and an older brother. I
Speaker 1: actually had two older brothers, but my oldest brother was
Speaker 1: from my father's first marriage, so we really didn't grow
Speaker 1: up together. But I'm one of three and my brother,
Speaker 1: who was four years older than I. We had a
Speaker 1: great childhood. Although as I as we started school, as
Speaker 1: he started school and I followed, what became clear to
Speaker 1: me was that, um, my brother didn't like school as
Speaker 1: much as I did. And my parents were very well educated.
Speaker 1: Both of them were college graduates and graduate school graduates,
Speaker 1: and so education was a really big component of my childhood,
Speaker 1: and when my brother wasn't as focused on it, it
Speaker 1: was a challenge for my parents. So growing up I
Speaker 1: understood that you could be really loving parents. You could
Speaker 1: be smart parents, you could be devoted parents, and you
Speaker 1: could still um not always do the do the best
Speaker 1: job parenting your each child. I mean I grew up
Speaker 1: thoroughly happy and thoroughly loving school, and I could see
Speaker 1: that made my parents happy. And I watched the challenges
Speaker 1: that they had with my brother, and I remember thinking,
Speaker 1: if I ever have a boy, I assumed it had
Speaker 1: something to do with gender. I mean, it may not have.
Speaker 1: I think it more had to do with the approach
Speaker 1: to education. But when I grew older and I was like,
Speaker 1: if I have a boy, I don't know if I've
Speaker 1: got the best role models to follow in parenting a boy. So, um,
Speaker 1: I had a girl and then I had a boy,
Speaker 1: and I was like, m I need to figure out.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't fault my parents. I mean they
Speaker 1: did the best they could, but I need to figure
Speaker 1: out how I can try to be a little bit
Speaker 1: more attuned to um this boy. Since I didn't, I
Speaker 1: didn't feel as comfortable raising a boy. I mean for me,
Speaker 1: I mean I had a girl. I was a girl.
Speaker 1: I kind of had some things that I could sort
Speaker 1: of follow, But from my son, I thought, hmm, let me,
Speaker 1: let me look into this and see what what about
Speaker 1: boys I need to learn? And then I had a
Speaker 1: second boy, so it was a good thing I did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So were there any frustrating moments as a parent when
Speaker 1: you wish you had had the kind of advice that
Speaker 1: you're now offering on ground controlled parenting. That's a really
Speaker 1: good question. Um, I when I began the blog, and
Speaker 1: then the part i'vegan the blog several years ago, and
Speaker 1: they were still sort of um elementary school, lower school,
Speaker 1: they were still relatively young, and um, I kind of
Speaker 1: learned as I went along. So if the answer to
Speaker 1: your question is if I had an issue, I would
Speaker 1: immediately go look it up. I mean I was as
Speaker 1: I The blog was more my looking to find the answers,
Speaker 1: and then when I found them, I would put them
Speaker 1: out into the universe, assuming that others might have the
Speaker 1: same issues. I think I would say that for me,
Speaker 1: the biggest challenge, and yes, I guess if there had
Speaker 1: been someplace for me to go a blog or a podcast,
Speaker 1: I would have gone there was to see my children
Speaker 1: as independent beings. And and what I mean to say
Speaker 1: is to not cross the line between guiding them and
Speaker 1: uh commanding them. That's a little strong, but I mean
Speaker 1: the the I mean even you know, as I said,
Speaker 1: I had a daughter first, and she actually looked a
Speaker 1: lot like my mother, But I looked like my mother,
Speaker 1: so there was a great resemblance. And so my natural
Speaker 1: instinct was like, oh, a mini me. So so I
Speaker 1: know what to do with my mini me. And to
Speaker 1: her credit in her as soon as she was able,
Speaker 1: she indicated that she had a personality that was different
Speaker 1: than mine. I'm extroverted. She was more introverted, and it
Speaker 1: was really important for me she was really young to
Speaker 1: try to figure out how to raise a child that
Speaker 1: had different instincts than I did in a way that
Speaker 1: didn't make her feel badly about having different instincts than
Speaker 1: I did. And so fortunately, with the help of research
Speaker 1: and guidance from teachers and other professionals, I was fairly
Speaker 1: early able to acknowledge that she was going to see
Speaker 1: things differently than I did, and and that she was
Speaker 1: more of an observer at first, but and I became
Speaker 1: to really respect that. I came to really respect that
Speaker 1: at a very early age. So it would have been nice.
Speaker 1: I mean, I did get the help I needed at
Speaker 1: the time, but it would have been nice to not
Speaker 1: kind of stumble through that to the extent that I
Speaker 1: did sort of make her feel as if not being
Speaker 1: like me was was an issue. You know, I think
Speaker 1: lots of our listeners, including myself, can relate to what
Speaker 1: you're saying about parenting. So this has really large application
Speaker 1: to the lives of many of us. Was there a
Speaker 1: toughest moment you had to contend with as a parent
Speaker 1: that you recall, M well, um, just to be candid
Speaker 1: and a little more serious, certainly the toughest moment I
Speaker 1: I one of my children suddenly became gravely ill. Fortunately
Speaker 1: he's fine now, but there was there was that moment
Speaker 1: which parents everywhere, Um, I hope they don't have to
Speaker 1: deal with the parents that have sort of know that
Speaker 1: sort of when your child is not well, that everything
Speaker 1: else falls away and and your only objective is to
Speaker 1: make sure that your child is better, And so that
Speaker 1: I think sort of, hands down was the toughest moment
Speaker 1: as a parent. But I think that I would say
Speaker 1: more generally speaking, because I mentioned my my brother that
Speaker 1: I grew up with. We were close, but we didn't
Speaker 1: have that kind of real sibling bond that other friends
Speaker 1: of mine had with their siblings. Again, he was very
Speaker 1: at different interests and we loved each other, but he
Speaker 1: was very different, and so I when I have my children,
Speaker 1: I was really focused on them having a being close
Speaker 1: and having a bond. Um. But as I said, since
Speaker 1: I've learned with my daughter that I can't sort of
Speaker 1: assume my perspective on things is the only perspective on things.
Speaker 1: It was challenging to um make sure that they all
Speaker 1: look to one another for support and guidance, and fortunately
Speaker 1: they were able to do that. I supported that as
Speaker 1: much as I could. It was important to me that
Speaker 1: they all that they have a tight bond, and because
Speaker 1: I didn't grow up with that, I wasn't sure as
Speaker 1: to how I could make that happen or help that happen.
Speaker 1: It's a wonderful goal to have for them, obviously, I
Speaker 1: have to say now looking back, because they're all in
Speaker 1: their twenties. Actually my daughter is now thirty. Um, I'm
Speaker 1: very glad that that was my focus because even though
Speaker 1: they are very different individuals, and we joke and say
Speaker 1: that if they all went to a party and didn't
Speaker 1: know each other, they wouldn't necessarily gravitate towards one another
Speaker 1: at the party. But they are really close. And what
Speaker 1: I love is that they have complementary strengths and they
Speaker 1: rely on each other for the things that they need.
Speaker 1: I mean, they all they realized that synergy works here,
Speaker 1: so they are better together than they are independently. I
Speaker 1: love that for them. Yeah, for sure, were you and
Speaker 1: your brother close in age? We were four years apart. Uh, well,
Speaker 1: let's can be considerable. It's funny. When I had my
Speaker 1: first child, I was determined to have another child within
Speaker 1: four years, because ridiculously I thought that that was the
Speaker 1: reason why my brother and I were not as close
Speaker 1: as I wanted us to be. But but that that
Speaker 1: was not it because I know that because my two
Speaker 1: sons are four years apart and they are very close.
Speaker 1: So fascinating, isn't it. Well, birth order and I guess
Speaker 1: spacing are are highly dispositive in some ways. Yes they are.
Speaker 1: They were three years and then four years among my children.
Speaker 1: When I meet people who had them like year after year,
Speaker 1: oh in a row, I can't think, but they must
Speaker 1: have had a very very different time with your children's.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's very different. You're right, not only birth ordered,
Speaker 1: but spacing doesn't matter. Yeah, Now you've told us some
Speaker 1: about your childhood. You've of course mentioned your brother and
Speaker 1: talked about your parents and their own struggles raising a son, UM.
Speaker 1: But I wonder one here a little bit more about
Speaker 1: what it was like growing up for you and was
Speaker 1: there a moment when you really felt that you wanted
Speaker 1: to be about helping others, because that's clearly what you're
Speaker 1: doing and what we're talking about today. Did your family
Speaker 1: help sort of really form the way that you've gone
Speaker 1: about your life? Oh? Absolutely, I want to be clear
Speaker 1: that even though I've talked about and I do often
Speaker 1: talk about my relationship with my brother as a whole,
Speaker 1: all four of us who were who were in the
Speaker 1: family together, we're close. We loved each other very dearly.
Speaker 1: So I had a really happy childhood. It was really
Speaker 1: I felt loved, I felt supported, and my brother did
Speaker 1: as well. But to your question of how my family's
Speaker 1: approached did my family's approach to shape me? It absolutely did.
Speaker 1: Because both of my parents had a real dedication to
Speaker 1: public service. My father was a lawyer and then he
Speaker 1: became a judge, um, and then he left the bench
Speaker 1: in to go into business with one of his brothers.
Speaker 1: It was the media, business, radio and and um like,
Speaker 1: but particularly when and the brother that he went to
Speaker 1: business with was a politician. He was for president of Manhattan,
Speaker 1: and so public service was really really important to my family.
Speaker 1: My father had to run for his judge ship, and
Speaker 1: so political life was something that I grew up with
Speaker 1: and was pretty comfortable around from an early age. My
Speaker 1: mom um was a public school teacher, and she loved teaching,
Speaker 1: and that if that's not a public service, I don't
Speaker 1: know what it is exactly. So and then you know,
Speaker 1: my parents sort of raised me in the sixties and
Speaker 1: the seventies and um, for black people all over. We
Speaker 1: were in New York, but I mean these were times when, um,
Speaker 1: you're you're focused on civil rights. They were very focused
Speaker 1: on civil rights. They were very focused on community activism,
Speaker 1: and so I understood. Um. The joke in the family
Speaker 1: was that when I was five, I joined my parents
Speaker 1: on a picket line, and for the life of me,
Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly what we were picketing, but I
Speaker 1: do remember there's pictures of me sort of with them
Speaker 1: as they were holding black heards. So um, so I
Speaker 1: grew up understanding that service was a part of public
Speaker 1: service was a part of what one did. Um Even
Speaker 1: though I I went to law school, i practiced law,
Speaker 1: I did not envision a career in public service when
Speaker 1: it came time for me. When I discovered all this
Speaker 1: material and sort of done all this digging and saw
Speaker 1: a need that I thought should be addressed, there was
Speaker 1: no question that I would figure out a way to
Speaker 1: address it. And you know, the podcast and the blog
Speaker 1: do focus on raising black children. I mean that's my
Speaker 1: perspective as a black mom with black children. But as
Speaker 1: you said a little earlier, there's a lot that we
Speaker 1: talked about on the podcast, particularly that is universal. I
Speaker 1: mean parenting. There's so many parenting issues that are universal.
Speaker 1: And I add additional thought and focus on having black
Speaker 1: children in circumstances. And there are some circumstances which I
Speaker 1: think are very important for parents of black children to
Speaker 1: talk about specifically, like certainly in the past two years
Speaker 1: with the plethora of horrific circumstances where we've seen black
Speaker 1: people really be um discriminated against and and in some
Speaker 1: instances killed. I mean, there's a lot that our children,
Speaker 1: our meaning our black children, there's a lot they have
Speaker 1: to deal with and that they see this differently than
Speaker 1: children who are not black, because they when they see
Speaker 1: all this happening people that look like them, it's going
Speaker 1: to impact them differently. But there are a lot of
Speaker 1: parenting issues that all parents really need to focus on.
Speaker 1: And I would also say that parents who are not
Speaker 1: who are not raising black children, should be focused on
Speaker 1: issues for about black children, because they're going to their
Speaker 1: their children are growing up with them. We're living in
Speaker 1: a very diverse world which will become even more diverse,
Speaker 1: and so there are issues I think that everyone should
Speaker 1: want to pay attention to and think about. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: so well said, and you know, listening to the influence
Speaker 1: your parents engagement in public service had on you. I
Speaker 1: love the anecdote about your picketing as a five year old,
Speaker 1: because I do think that these are formative experiences. And
Speaker 1: I would imagine in your advice providing that you do
Speaker 1: in terms of the podcast and what you've done with
Speaker 1: your blog, that raising children who have a commitment to
Speaker 1: serving others is critically important. Absolutely, it's really important that
Speaker 1: our children at an early age get a sense of
Speaker 1: the world outside themselves, get a sense that the community
Speaker 1: in which they live, the city in which they live,
Speaker 1: the world in which they live, it's bigger than their block.
Speaker 1: I mean, And you can start this this with children
Speaker 1: when they're very little. I mean, it's it's really important
Speaker 1: that they get as much exposure to the world and
Speaker 1: and see the world the way it is and and
Speaker 1: understand that there are some people that need help and
Speaker 1: we all need to help. Yeah. I've been involved over
Speaker 1: the years in service learning, and I know what an
Speaker 1: impact it has even for children to understand that no
Speaker 1: school is an island. They their schools are connected to
Speaker 1: so many others in their community. Uh, and to imview
Speaker 1: them with that is really the stuff of making good
Speaker 1: citizens for the future. Absolutely, Seneca's one hundred women to hear.
Speaker 1: We'll be back after the short break. Let's talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about your podcast. You have some amazing guests
Speaker 1: lined up, including the former mayor of Atlanta, Kesha Lats
Speaker 1: Bottoms and wal Green CEO Roz Brewer. They are both
Speaker 1: amazing women. And if this is a lustrative of your guests,
Speaker 1: the audience is going to have a fine time tuning in.
Speaker 1: But I wonder you must have a view of guests
Speaker 1: over the years. What's the best bit of advice you've
Speaker 1: heard from a guest. Wow, that's a great question and
Speaker 1: a hard one because I've, as you've said, I've I've
Speaker 1: had the pleasure of talking to a lot of people
Speaker 1: about parenting. I've I've talked to politicians like Keisha Lance Bottoms.
Speaker 1: I talked to the governor, the former governor of Massachusetts
Speaker 1: of Alpatrick. I've talked to Mark Moreal, who was the
Speaker 1: mayor of New Orleans before he ran the Urban League.
Speaker 1: And my goal was talking to all these different people
Speaker 1: who have great, interesting lives and great experiences that aren't
Speaker 1: necessarily directly connected to parenting. Is my goal is to
Speaker 1: ask all these people to talk about how they parent,
Speaker 1: how they were parented, and what their parenting experience has
Speaker 1: taught them about their work and about themselves. It's been
Speaker 1: such a pleasure to have these conversations because I honestly
Speaker 1: just I will answer your question, but just to sort
Speaker 1: of defer a little bit. When I started looking for
Speaker 1: parent advice or books on parental advice, and I mean
Speaker 1: certainly there were books that talk to me about certain
Speaker 1: ages and stages, but I really didn't have a sense
Speaker 1: of how people were actually parenting. I mean, there were
Speaker 1: sort of sort of what to know when they're two,
Speaker 1: when they're three, when they're four. But a lot of
Speaker 1: questions I had about how people do things I didn't
Speaker 1: seem I didn't find any answers, And so that's really
Speaker 1: what began my quest to talk to people. It's like,
Speaker 1: how do you manage this? You mentioned Rob's through, It's like,
Speaker 1: how do you run this huge company and focus on
Speaker 1: your children? How for Dabaal Patrick as governor of Massachusetts,
Speaker 1: during the course of his tenure, his daughter came out
Speaker 1: and I mean, that's certainly wasn't news to him, but
Speaker 1: how do you handle things like that when it's suddenly
Speaker 1: in the public eye? I mean, there there, And so
Speaker 1: what I have found, I've found there have been so
Speaker 1: many really interesting observations and revelations that my guests have
Speaker 1: given me. Ken Frasier, who is the CEO of MERT,
Speaker 1: tells an amazing story about being raised by a single dad,
Speaker 1: and he credits his very stern, very focused, single father
Speaker 1: with him being CEO. It was his father's sort of
Speaker 1: guidance that got him there. And it's been a treat
Speaker 1: and and really interesting and educational to talk to all
Speaker 1: these in people about these issues. Now, the best advice
Speaker 1: I'll have to say that I can't say the best
Speaker 1: because there's been a lot of great that's of advice.
Speaker 1: But in the upcoming season, I talked to a wonderful actress,
Speaker 1: Lorraine Toussaint, who is on the Equalizer now, and she
Speaker 1: said a quote, and I'm going to paraphrase her, but
Speaker 1: she said something that has really stayed with me. She
Speaker 1: describes a really interesting childhood where she was her mother
Speaker 1: left her to come to the United States, and she
Speaker 1: wasn't able. She was separated from her mother for many years,
Speaker 1: and so she it was it wasn't a really great childhood,
Speaker 1: but she says, so she describes a childhood that sounds tough,
Speaker 1: but then she says, everybody that parented me, her mother,
Speaker 1: her grandmother, all the women that would put in charge
Speaker 1: of me along the way, we're all doing the very
Speaker 1: best they could. She said, if they knew better, they
Speaker 1: would have done better. That's my job to figure that out.
Speaker 1: Heal that. Oh lovely, Yeah, she says, all of it,
Speaker 1: all the good, the bad, and the ugly word integral
Speaker 1: parts of the human being. I am. Now. The reason
Speaker 1: that really stayed with me is because that is parenting,
Speaker 1: my version, my view of parenting. In a nutshell, you
Speaker 1: are who you are. The purpose of going back is
Speaker 1: not to uh to be upset about something. It's not
Speaker 1: to wish for something to be different. It's just to
Speaker 1: acknowledge who you are as a parent, what made you
Speaker 1: into the person that you are, what the good of it,
Speaker 1: the bad of it, and how you make peace with that,
Speaker 1: and then treat your children in a way that that
Speaker 1: you're You're fully at peace with the way you are,
Speaker 1: the good and the bad, and you interact with your
Speaker 1: children in a way that you're certainly going to make mistakes.
Speaker 1: Everybody makes mistakes all the time, but you're gonna be
Speaker 1: able to see them, take a step back, figure out
Speaker 1: how to fix it, and then just keep moving. I mean,
Speaker 1: I am not a fan of the wring your hands
Speaker 1: and drink wine parenting school. No, that's not very helpful,
Speaker 1: is it. It may momentarily make you feel better, but
Speaker 1: it doesn't last very long. I mean I'm joking. I mean,
Speaker 1: certainly we can all commiserate with some of the things
Speaker 1: about parenting, and and you know, all the the the
Speaker 1: bring your hands in frink wine is sort of like
Speaker 1: you know, at the end of the day, you know,
Speaker 1: you sort of throw up your hands and say, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I did the best I could. I understand that,
Speaker 1: but I really think doing the best you can takes
Speaker 1: a little more work. Yeah, well, just listening to um
Speaker 1: not just who some of your guests are and some
Speaker 1: of the conversations you've had and will be airing, but
Speaker 1: also the way you're going about it, both asking them
Speaker 1: about their own growing up, what they remember, and how
Speaker 1: they're acting in ways to be good parents to their
Speaker 1: own children. I think that's gonna make it particularly interesting
Speaker 1: for listeners. Now I want to ask you about the arts,
Speaker 1: because I know that the arts are just one of
Speaker 1: your passions. You're ice chair of the famous Studio Museum
Speaker 1: in Harlem. Why are the arts so important to you?
Speaker 1: And do you have a favorite artist? Can I ask again,
Speaker 1: with the favorite the best? I will answer that I
Speaker 1: have an artist. I love a lot of artists, but
Speaker 1: I will mention one who I am particularly fond of.
Speaker 1: But first I'll answer the question about why why art?
Speaker 1: And actually I will this answer ties back into parenting
Speaker 1: because I grew up in New York City with a
Speaker 1: mom who is a native New Yorker as well. And
Speaker 1: as I said, a public school teacher, and she had
Speaker 1: summers off, and so she used New York City's cultural
Speaker 1: institutions as a summertime playground. When when from a for
Speaker 1: as long as I can remember, we were visiting museums.
Speaker 1: We were uh were. She loved opera, she loved ballet.
Speaker 1: So we did a lot of cultural things. But but
Speaker 1: I remember we we would regularly visit the met We
Speaker 1: visit MoMA, and we visit the Studio Museum when when
Speaker 1: in its earliest days, and I loved those visits. I
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time and I was a little
Speaker 1: sort of absolutely confounded by what was art, particularly at
Speaker 1: the Museum of Modern Art. I remember thinking, Okay, that's art.
Speaker 1: Why is that art? But what I loved about that
Speaker 1: and and I loved it when I was little, and
Speaker 1: as I got older and was able to reflect on it,
Speaker 1: I loved it even more that the exposure to art,
Speaker 1: two colors, to shapes, to different perspectives, to pictures of
Speaker 1: things that I'd never seen before, two pictures of things
Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine, and pictures that I had to sort
Speaker 1: of struggle to figure out. That exposure at an early
Speaker 1: age was really key to so much about my love
Speaker 1: of learning, about my curiosity, and it just took me
Speaker 1: into worlds that I otherwise would not have known existed.
Speaker 1: And I love being able to give everyone, but particularly
Speaker 1: young people, that opportunity. We're in the process of building
Speaker 1: a new building for the Studio Museum in Harlem, and
Speaker 1: I've said from the moment that we conceived of this
Speaker 1: that I want there to be a place where fifty
Speaker 1: a hundred years from now, some small child is walking
Speaker 1: past this building and looks at it and knows they
Speaker 1: have to go in and see what's in there. And
Speaker 1: I think that to this day. Whenever I'm visiting anywhere,
Speaker 1: I'd love to go to the museums, and just it
Speaker 1: tells you so much about the world that you're in.
Speaker 1: If you're traveling, it tells you about um. There's there's
Speaker 1: You always learn something when you're looking at art, and
Speaker 1: and even if it's that you don't like what you're
Speaker 1: looking at, you can you can learn something about yourself
Speaker 1: and what makes you uncomfortable. So I UM I love.
Speaker 1: In fact, on the podcast, I've had several UM guests
Speaker 1: who have run art museums and UM they've we talk
Speaker 1: at length about the importance of exposing children to art.
Speaker 1: Now for my favorite artist, um, as I said, I
Speaker 1: have many, but I will have to cite one of
Speaker 1: my favorites is Alma Thomas. Yes, she was. She was
Speaker 1: born in eighteen ninety one and she died unfortunately in
Speaker 1: ninety She was an abstract artist, but she was an
Speaker 1: art teacher for most for her entire career, she was,
Speaker 1: but she always painted. And then she had her first
Speaker 1: exhibition at age seventy five, and she her work is
Speaker 1: absolutely amazing color field, It's just beautiful colors. She's the
Speaker 1: first African American woman to have a solo exhibition at
Speaker 1: the Whitney Um. She's in the Obama's editor to the
Speaker 1: White House collection she has. Her work is beautiful. I
Speaker 1: love her story. I love that she was an artist
Speaker 1: for life but only had her first exhibition at seventy five.
Speaker 1: I mean, how inspirational is that? And so I'm whenever
Speaker 1: I am I am able to look at works of hers,
Speaker 1: I am not only thrilled to see the beauty, to
Speaker 1: to feel the really the wonderful feelings of seeing this
Speaker 1: beautiful work, but also just the pride and the inspiration
Speaker 1: that that this artist U that the fact that it
Speaker 1: is on the wall in the museum, it gives me.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm thrilled that that she was finally recognized. Well,
Speaker 1: I I live in Washington and we just had a
Speaker 1: wonderful exhibition of her work at the Phillips Collection here,
Speaker 1: So that exhibition provided a great deal of satisfaction to
Speaker 1: many people who could see those extraordinary colors and what
Speaker 1: she's done with them. But you know, Carol, just listening
Speaker 1: to what you said about the way that your mother
Speaker 1: spent summers with you as a child, exposing you to
Speaker 1: the arts in all of its forms, I think that's
Speaker 1: such a wonderful bit of advice for parenting for others
Speaker 1: to emulate, because, as you said so beautifully, it does
Speaker 1: really provide that horizon growth that that children need in
Speaker 1: that sense of the possibility. So thank you for that. Absolutely. Well,
Speaker 1: we're just about out of time, and I do want
Speaker 1: to ask you one last question, which is, given the
Speaker 1: state of the world, and you know, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of us are feeling rather down these days, what
Speaker 1: makes you optimistic? What what gives you hope? So I
Speaker 1: will start by saying that I am naturally extremely optimistic.
Speaker 1: I am. I am. I live in optimism generally speaking, um,
Speaker 1: and so that is my perspective. I am going to
Speaker 1: work very hard, generally speaking, no matter what's going on,
Speaker 1: to remain optimistic. But I do think about this a
Speaker 1: lot um. Certainly, these are times that that cause concern
Speaker 1: on so many different levels. I mean, health concerns, um uh,
Speaker 1: concerns about how we're all getting along, concerns about as women,
Speaker 1: concerns about our our bodies. There's just are into pend,
Speaker 1: concerns about legal changes. There's just so much to be
Speaker 1: very very nervous about and very concerned about. But I
Speaker 1: when I because I start from a very optimistic place,
Speaker 1: but I also think about when I think about parenting,
Speaker 1: I think about my parents who are raising me in
Speaker 1: an error in America where there were multiple assassinations of
Speaker 1: our leaders, King Kennedy and Kennedy and in a fairly
Speaker 1: short space of time we were embroiled in a war,
Speaker 1: and as as black Americans we were, our civil rights
Speaker 1: were being um didn't exist in some states, they were
Speaker 1: being challenged everywhere. It was dangerous to be in in
Speaker 1: certain places. Now some would argue that that it sounds
Speaker 1: like deja vu, but but it was really I mean,
Speaker 1: I think there have been other times in our history,
Speaker 1: and that's just one of them where things have seemed
Speaker 1: very dire. And I think about how my parents did
Speaker 1: an amazing job of not looking worried all the time,
Speaker 1: of not making me feel like we were doomed, of
Speaker 1: giving me hope for the future. I mean, I didn't
Speaker 1: know that's what they were doing, but I felt I mean,
Speaker 1: they raised an optimistic child, and so I feel as if,
Speaker 1: to some degree, I have an obligation to remain optimistic
Speaker 1: because the children that we are raising I didn't ask
Speaker 1: for all of this, didn't ask for any of it.
Speaker 1: And if we as adults really evidence to them our
Speaker 1: grave concern about everything, it's it's just going to scare
Speaker 1: them and it's not going to help them. Um. I
Speaker 1: I a friend recently um repeated a phrase that has
Speaker 1: been used often, and I quote him as he was
Speaker 1: quoting others. Joy is the ultimate form of resistance. I mean,
Speaker 1: I really think that as hard as things get, if
Speaker 1: you can find joy, and frankly I find a lot
Speaker 1: of joy in parenting, I think that it can be joyful.
Speaker 1: I encourage parents to look for the joy, because it's
Speaker 1: hard work, so you need to find something to feel
Speaker 1: good about it with. But I think, just as individuals
Speaker 1: of absent parenting, just as individuals, if you can find joy,
Speaker 1: it really um gives you some armor against all of
Speaker 1: the things that um really would make us feel as
Speaker 1: if things are are are really going down fast. I
Speaker 1: I resist. It's funny when I when I hear people
Speaker 1: talk about how bad things are and how scary things
Speaker 1: are physically, I feel the need to sort of just
Speaker 1: arm myself with optimism because I just think it it is.
Speaker 1: It's good for our souls, it's good for our children.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't I don't say cock eyed optimism.
Speaker 1: I mean you have to be aware and and back
Speaker 1: to the public service. You have to do all you
Speaker 1: can to make things better. But I think the making
Speaker 1: things better and the hope that they'll be better is
Speaker 1: really what needs to fuel us. What a wonderful way
Speaker 1: to end this great conversation, I think giving children also
Speaker 1: that sense of optimism of possibility, giving them hope for
Speaker 1: the future, it is a great piece of parenting, and
Speaker 1: it's a great note in which to conclude this just
Speaker 1: very fascinating conversation Carol Sutton Lewis, We wish you so
Speaker 1: much good luck with the podcast. Thank you, Ground Control
Speaker 1: Parenting wonderful. Thank you so much, so much wisdom and
Speaker 1: great advice from Carol Sutton Lewis. Here are three things
Speaker 1: I took from that conversation. First, parenting, as we all know,
Speaker 1: is hard, and every child is different. As Carol says,
Speaker 1: you can be really loving parents, you can be smart parents,
Speaker 1: you can be devoted parents, and you could still not
Speaker 1: always do the best job parenting. Second, Carol reminds us
Speaker 1: the children need to learn that the world doesn't revolve
Speaker 1: around them. They need a sense of the community they
Speaker 1: live in, of their sin, and of the wider world.
Speaker 1: And they need to recognize that there will always be
Speaker 1: people who need our help. Finally, we can all follow
Speaker 1: Carol's example of optimism. I find a lot of joy
Speaker 1: and parenting, she says. She encourages other parents to look
Speaker 1: for the joy as well, to get more practical parenting
Speaker 1: advice and to hear from great guests. Tune in every
Speaker 1: Wednesday to Ground Controlled Parenting on the I Heart radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Seneca's one
Speaker 1: d Women to Hear is a collaboration between the Seneca
Speaker 1: Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio, with support from
Speaker 1: founding partner Pung. Have a great day.