Speaker 1: Patriots Unfiltered the world's original podcast. Patriots Unfiltered brings you
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Speaker 2: He's a red shirt rookie at that point, so it's
Speaker 2: really that's his rookie season essentially too. So now we're
Speaker 2: really not talking about them, really knowing.
Speaker 1: Search for Patriots Unfiltered anywhere you get your podcasts. This
Speaker 1: is the Patriots Catch twenty two podcasts with Evan Lazar
Speaker 1: and Alex bar.
Speaker 2: I'm Lazar Blazar from Lazar. Hello, everybody nailed it, Joined
Speaker 2: as always by our Bark.
Speaker 3: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex Bars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair. All right, Let's go to the downs.
Speaker 2: You got seventeen of them, so hurry up. That is you.
Speaker 2: Last week you told me you had like six down? Yeah,
Speaker 2: how many do you have this week? I mean, this
Speaker 2: game was even worse.
Speaker 3: I just kind of bundle them all together.
Speaker 2: I did kind of do that. Okay, you did you
Speaker 2: do offense, defense, special teams. No, I should have done that.
Speaker 2: This would have been a good week to do that. Okay, well,
Speaker 2: I don't even know where to start right now. I
Speaker 2: am gonna pay the bills real quick though, and say, hey,
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Speaker 2: the New England Patriots. Toyota Let's go places and easy
Speaker 2: to drink, easy to enjoy, but like the official beer
Speaker 2: sponsor of the New England Patriots. Hello everybody, Evan Lazar,
Speaker 2: Alex Barth, Patriots Catch twenty two with you for the
Speaker 2: next couple hours, and we're obviously gonna talk plenty off season.
Speaker 2: We'll talk plenty of draft. That's gonna be the meat
Speaker 2: of today's show, as it will be for the next
Speaker 2: four or five months. Ready on Catch twenty ye Wait
Speaker 2: for insincerity being sincere That kind of came off like
Speaker 2: I was being sarcastic about that.
Speaker 3: But I do love it.
Speaker 2: I do wish that we were talking about playoffs and
Speaker 2: competitive football absolutely, uh So. But this is where I
Speaker 2: want to start today because I think it's important for
Speaker 2: us to still talk about what's going on in the
Speaker 2: present and and what's going to happen with the direction
Speaker 2: of this football team. Alex and I just coming off
Speaker 2: of Saturday's game. Uh The one feeling that I can't
Speaker 2: escape that I keep feeling about the performance against the
Speaker 2: Chargers was that was the one thing they could not
Speaker 2: do like they could They could play a game like
Speaker 2: they played in Arizona, which was lackluster, but okay, you
Speaker 2: know you you're just not a very good team. You're
Speaker 2: on the road, right, like all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: They could have played a game like they did in
Speaker 2: Buffalo and we'd be probably giving them flowers, like if
Speaker 2: they had stacked two games like that back to back.
Speaker 2: The one thing that this coaching staff could not afford
Speaker 2: was to get blown out, and not even just get
Speaker 2: blown out, but really just not be competitive in any
Speaker 2: phase from start to finish. And I thought after the
Speaker 2: Bills game that Drodmeo's job was safe coming off this
Speaker 2: Chargers game. I'm not saying that he should or shouldn't,
Speaker 2: but I think all options are currently on the table
Speaker 2: because of how bad it looked against a Charger team
Speaker 2: which seems to have its bleep together, and you can
Speaker 2: kind of see the compare and contrast of a well coached,
Speaker 2: well oiled machine with the Chargers, who aren't blowing doors
Speaker 2: off of every team. Right, they had just played a
Speaker 2: close game against the Broncos.
Speaker 3: They think in the week before that they got was
Speaker 3: it the week four, two weeks before they got wrecked
Speaker 3: by Tampa? Yeah, that was in the last month, I know.
Speaker 2: So they're not a wagon. We're not talking. If the
Speaker 2: Bills had done what the Chargers did, I think I
Speaker 2: would have felt differently.
Speaker 3: If you flip the two games, like, it's more or
Speaker 3: less what I was expecting from those two games, just backwards,
Speaker 3: right right right. Play the Chargers close, tight, Maybe you lose,
Speaker 3: but you put up a fight against a team that's
Speaker 3: sort of right there in the playoff picture, and look,
Speaker 3: Buffalo's Buffalo. What's gonna happen is gonna happen? Instead it flipped.
Speaker 2: No, I'm with you.
Speaker 3: If we're just playing the prediction game, regardless of what
Speaker 3: we think shoul or shouldn't happen. We've both kind of said, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: they're probably gonna run it back. That was the first
Speaker 3: game it kind of came away from and said.
Speaker 2: Maybe not. Yeah, it's a great point, and I just
Speaker 2: what I keep coming back to as well, is okay,
Speaker 2: So you decide that you've committed to girod Mayo and
Speaker 2: you feel as though he is gonna grow on the
Speaker 2: job and all that kind of stuff, and it's it
Speaker 2: is a little I don't want to call it unfair
Speaker 2: because it's professional sports, but you had to have known
Speaker 2: that he was gonna have some growing pains as really
Speaker 2: a guy coming into this very very green for the position, right,
Speaker 2: So you had to have known that this was gonna
Speaker 2: sort of be a multi year build for girod Mayo here.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, it just is hard to envision,
Speaker 2: like how do you rearrange the deck chairs here underneath
Speaker 2: girod Mayo to then make it better next year is
Speaker 2: hard to envision. Like the way to do it, I
Speaker 2: suppose would be to move on from one of the coordinators,
Speaker 2: But now you're scapegoating a coordinator who probably doesn't deserve
Speaker 2: it to be honest, especially on an offense in my opinion,
Speaker 2: in Alex van Pel doesn't deserve to be scapegoated. But
Speaker 2: with a head has to roll for going three and
Speaker 2: fourteen or three four and thirteen, whatever it ends up being.
Speaker 2: And I just I don't know how that changes anything
Speaker 2: really at the core of it. If all you're doing
Speaker 2: is we're gonna let go of DeMarcus Comington and we're
Speaker 2: gonna bring in a more experienced, a more seasoned defensive
Speaker 2: coordinator on that side of the ball, I'll give a name.
Speaker 2: You know, Let's say the Giants, let's say they clean
Speaker 2: house and Patrick Graham becomes available. You know, maybe you
Speaker 2: bring in Patrick Graham, who's called a defense, who's run
Speaker 2: a defense, who's been a successful coordinator in different areas.
Speaker 2: But then at the same time, it's like, okay, but
Speaker 2: you're still you still need the head coaching to significantly improve,
Speaker 2: even if the coordinators are a little bit more stable
Speaker 2: underneath him. And it just it feels like a lot
Speaker 2: of gymnastics to try to avoid the dude state scenario.
Speaker 3: The whole thing with that Bills game was you just
Speaker 3: wanted to see some sort of progress from this coaching
Speaker 3: staff this year. Like you said, it might be a
Speaker 3: multi year thing, but you can't just have a bad
Speaker 3: year one throughout and then expect to jump without any
Speaker 3: evidence in year two. And the Bills game was is
Speaker 3: this the start of that late season push? And instead
Speaker 3: it looks like, more likely than not, it was a blip.
Speaker 3: It was an anomaly. And that that's where you look
Speaker 3: at Trod Mayo, because if he's gonna be this CEO
Speaker 3: head coach, it is all about development, not just of
Speaker 3: the players, but of the coaches, and this game was
Speaker 3: a step back in that regard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I want to talk a little bit about,
Speaker 2: you know, what actually went wrong, and then we'll do
Speaker 2: three up, three down, and then and then we'll get
Speaker 2: to the draft. We'll try to keep this a little
Speaker 2: bit shorter than our normal game precap because I know
Speaker 2: that there's not a ton of there's only so much
Speaker 2: to Yeah, but I think the biggest thing to look
Speaker 2: on the offensive side of the ball when I watch
Speaker 2: their film offensively and it's not it's not too that's
Speaker 2: the word. It's not to make excuses for Alex van
Speaker 2: Pelt and the coaching. Could the play calling, could the
Speaker 2: play design. I've been critical of that all year long.
Speaker 2: The play design in particular, I think is pretty vanilla.
Speaker 2: But at the same time you watch them try to
Speaker 2: execute the slot pass to Pop Douglas and it turns
Speaker 2: into a horrible t which, like I love that. That
Speaker 2: So what that play is supposed to be is.
Speaker 3: Like you're he's supposed he's essentially tossing it to Pop
Speaker 3: Douglas is coming in motion, but you have ramondre Stevenson
Speaker 3: go out the other way as ee Candy. Yeah, I've
Speaker 3: seen that play work a ton of times. It's a
Speaker 3: very fun play. It's a good touch for Pop Douglas
Speaker 3: all that, but if you can't execute it, you can't
Speaker 3: execute it. And this is where you have to square
Speaker 3: the two between Alex van Pelt.
Speaker 2: Understand it.
Speaker 3: You know you don't have the talent to run it,
Speaker 3: so maybe don't run it, but like, could you just
Speaker 3: you could do that with a handoff and it would
Speaker 3: still work. The toss makes it a little bit better,
Speaker 3: but you can still get to the point with a handoff,
Speaker 3: And if you know you can't run it as a toss,
Speaker 3: you got to recognize that if you're Van Pelt. But
Speaker 3: also they probably don't have the talent there to run
Speaker 3: it as.
Speaker 2: A toss, right, So it's tough. That's I think a
Speaker 2: great microcosm of everything on offense is that particular play
Speaker 2: of all the issues with their offense right now. Because
Speaker 2: they don't have the talent, they don't have the chemistry
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it, just sort of the
Speaker 2: execution to be able to pull off a play like that.
Speaker 2: But because they can't do anything that's sort of high level,
Speaker 2: they're just so basic offensively that they're easy to defend. Right, So,
Speaker 2: like it's sort of this you know, damned if you do,
Speaker 2: damned if you don't, type of scenario. And like you said,
Speaker 2: you know, you see teams like the Bills, teams like
Speaker 2: the Lions, teams like the Packers like pull off plays
Speaker 2: like this all the time. It's a wing tea play.
Speaker 2: It's like it goes back like fifty years. Like they've
Speaker 2: been running these types of like veer wingt type of
Speaker 2: offense scheme since, you know, like Navy in the nineteen forties, right,
Speaker 2: Like this is not new to football by any stretch
Speaker 2: of the imagination. But the Patriots don't have the ability
Speaker 2: to do it, And so I go with Van Pelt,
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, but you know that's hard, like that,
Speaker 2: that's hard to coordinate an offense, and everybody is And
Speaker 2: I get that there's been some criticism about him reacting
Speaker 2: too much to the media and what we're saying about
Speaker 2: the play calling, But everybody's on you to be more
Speaker 2: creative and be more innovative, and be more tricky and
Speaker 2: like all these types of things. And then you try
Speaker 2: something that's a little bit creative and tricky and it
Speaker 2: just completely backfires, like it completely blows up in your face.
Speaker 2: And so like, what do you do if you're Van
Speaker 2: Pelt is a really good question. So basically what I'm
Speaker 2: getting out with the offense is every single week that
Speaker 2: I watch their offensive film. It's not so much that
Speaker 2: I don't think that they have a plan or like
Speaker 2: that they don't go into games with like a script
Speaker 2: and sort of a goal or a you know, landmarks
Speaker 2: of like how we are going to move the ball
Speaker 2: and how we're going to score points and how we're
Speaker 2: gonna win this game. I just don't think they have
Speaker 2: the talent, Like I just think they're very very talent
Speaker 2: poor and all over the place. Besides basically quarterback and
Speaker 2: tight end, So like, what are you supposed to really look?
Speaker 3: There's certainly a case to talk about the coaching staff.
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying the coaching is perfect.
Speaker 2: It's not.
Speaker 3: If we are to list the biggest issues facing the
Speaker 3: New England Patriots this season, talent roster talent is at
Speaker 3: the top.
Speaker 2: Of the list number one.
Speaker 3: There's plenty of teams in the league that have a
Speaker 3: very talented roster and an okay coach or even a
Speaker 3: bad coach that they may look good. You would probably
Speaker 3: say the Detroit Lions. I would say the San Francisco
Speaker 3: forty nine Ers.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: There's also some coaches that are considered great coaches that
Speaker 3: have rosters to avoid of talent and it doesn't look
Speaker 3: very good. Yeah, so does the Does there need to
Speaker 3: be changes with the coaching staff? Absolutely? None of it matters.
Speaker 3: If you don't improve the talent, that is issue number one,
Speaker 3: first and foremost. And if you disagree, I'd ask you
Speaker 3: to think about it this way. Would you rather run
Speaker 3: it back with the same coaches but a better roster,
Speaker 3: or the same roster but different coaches.
Speaker 2: It's a good question. Obviously you don't have to, right
Speaker 2: bull should right, bull should be improved, but give me
Speaker 2: the better roster all day.
Speaker 3: It's it's the players on the field that ultimately decide
Speaker 3: the game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a great point. And again I'm
Speaker 2: not trying to shield Alex van Pelt to blame or
Speaker 2: make excuses for him, But when I watch their their
Speaker 2: their tape offensively, I just don't I'm running out of
Speaker 2: ideas of like, Okay, how what could they really do? Differently,
Speaker 2: Like they can't run block, they can't pass protect for
Speaker 2: very long, Like people are criticizing him of you know,
Speaker 2: not giving the tackles a lot of help in past protection.
Speaker 2: But they don't have the capability of running like two
Speaker 2: man routes because they don't have guys that get open, right. So, like,
Speaker 2: if you're running a two man route, then you're trying
Speaker 2: to set up a one on one matchup for somebody
Speaker 2: by doing that max protect two man route. You know,
Speaker 2: you're thinking post safety, single high, so someone's gonna get
Speaker 2: the safety and someone's gonna be one on one. But
Speaker 2: you consistently need that player to be able to win
Speaker 2: one on one. They don't have that, so they put
Speaker 2: everybody in the pattern to try to stretch out the
Speaker 2: field and try to make the defense at least cover
Speaker 2: everything right, So like it just it continue to just
Speaker 2: kind of see that. Offensively, Now defensively, I still think
Speaker 2: they're not playing to their talent level on defense. I
Speaker 2: still believe that there are better defense than what they've
Speaker 2: shown talent wise, and the main reason to me is
Speaker 2: a lack of fundamentals on the defensive side of the ball.
Speaker 2: If you, I will continue to say this over and
Speaker 2: over again, if you tackle well, if you play with
Speaker 2: good angles, good leverage, if you play with good fundamentals
Speaker 2: and technique on the line of scrimmage, you can just
Speaker 2: be a good defen by trying hard, like not a
Speaker 2: great defense. Like you're probably not going to be top
Speaker 2: ten in the league by just being locked in and
Speaker 2: having effort in all those kinds of things. But I
Speaker 2: think it's true in almost any sport that if you play,
Speaker 2: if you are a fast, pursuit, relentless, good like tough, physical,
Speaker 2: fundamentally sound defense, I still think that you're better than
Speaker 2: thirtieth in the league in DVOA on defense just with that,
Speaker 2: just with that alone, Yeah, And they don't do that.
Speaker 2: They don't play that way. They're constantly pulled out and
Speaker 2: drawn out of coverage areas, They're constantly you know, not
Speaker 2: their run fits, and they're tackling and all that kind
Speaker 2: of stuff is just it's totally falling off and totally
Speaker 2: falling apart. So you look at all these things and
Speaker 2: I still think that they are playing below their talent
Speaker 2: level on defense and schematically. Like Greg Roman's a good
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator, I don't think that Greg Roman is a
Speaker 2: great pass game coordinator. He's a very very good run
Speaker 2: game quarter Day, this game, they made Greg Roman in
Speaker 2: the past game look like he was like, you know,
Speaker 2: just unstoppable, right, you know, so it wasn't the run game.
Speaker 2: If they were getting torched by like you know, Roman's
Speaker 2: like run designs like that we've seen in Baltimore and
Speaker 2: San Francisco and now at the Chargers, I would say, Okay,
Speaker 2: you know, Greg Roman did his thing this week. This
Speaker 2: was past game stuff like this was we know, you
Speaker 2: guys are gonna be in man to man and we're
Speaker 2: just gonna have a bunch of man beaters. And then
Speaker 2: those times that you do play zone, like you're not
Speaker 2: gonna be good enough in zone to stop us, right,
Speaker 2: and so the fact that they don't have any sort
Speaker 2: of right hand or or left hand excuse me, they
Speaker 2: don't have any sort of counter defensively, These teams just
Speaker 2: know they're gonna play man on third down. They know
Speaker 2: they're gonna get man. They know that if they run
Speaker 2: you know, tight splits, if they run bunch concepts, if
Speaker 2: they run pick plays, if they just do all these
Speaker 2: different things to beat man to man coverage that you
Speaker 2: see all around the league, they are going to find success.
Speaker 2: And just talking to some of the players after the
Speaker 2: game on Sunday, you know, they basically said, it's just
Speaker 2: really hard, Like it's really hard to go out there
Speaker 2: and play man to man for four quarters when the
Speaker 2: other team knows you're going to be playing man to man.
Speaker 2: They have all these tricks and all these game plan
Speaker 2: wrinkles ready for you to play man to man. And
Speaker 2: my thought was, you know that that's a coaching like
Speaker 2: that's adjusting right, like that's finding other ways to to
Speaker 2: go ahead and play pass defense. And I just thought
Speaker 2: that they are have become very predictable. Now could you
Speaker 2: sit there and say that's that's talent that they don't have.
Speaker 2: The they don't have guys that can play mann zone
Speaker 2: and things like I guess, but I still feel like
Speaker 2: they have better talent than what they've shown.
Speaker 3: Well, some of that, I think it's tie talent. Remember
Speaker 3: we were doing shows at the beginning of the year
Speaker 3: wondering why they weren't playing more man cover. Yeah, because
Speaker 3: of the personnel.
Speaker 2: So I think that's tied too. But at the end
Speaker 2: of the day, talents talent, Yeah, I had last thing
Speaker 2: on the defense. I would just say, supposed to be
Speaker 2: up and downs. We're gonna do it night now, Okay,
Speaker 2: But I just wanted to wrap this up, put a
Speaker 2: bow on this, this takedown of this entire game on
Speaker 2: Sunday or Saturday. Do you realize how much they've struggled
Speaker 2: to press their quarterback.
Speaker 3: Like it's I think this was another game where they
Speaker 3: had no quarter They had one quarterback hit and it
Speaker 3: was a penalty. It was a really bad penalty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they they are now thirtieth in the league
Speaker 2: in team pressure rate. I'm actually surprised it's not thirty second, Like,
Speaker 2: why I don't watch every single defense, every single snap
Speaker 2: of every single defense is surprising. I don't even know
Speaker 2: what those other teams are doing. But one of the
Speaker 2: things that has really stood out to me is their
Speaker 2: inability to manufacture pressure. Remember when they traded Matthew Judon,
Speaker 2: the big quote was, we've done this in the past,
Speaker 2: where we've manufactured pressure without a Chandler Jones or a
Speaker 2: Matthew Judon or a stud pass presher, and we've been
Speaker 2: able to get away with it. So last season under
Speaker 2: Bill and Steve Belichick, they were first in the league
Speaker 2: in unblocked pressure rate creating free runners at the quarterback
Speaker 2: number one in the league. Nine point eight percent of
Speaker 2: the time they were able to generate a free runner.
Speaker 2: That has basically been cut in half. This year They're
Speaker 2: had five point one percent. They're twenty fourth in the
Speaker 2: league this season. So that again, that's all scheme right.
Speaker 2: And in the very first third down of the game,
Speaker 2: they blitzed Gonzo on a boundary blitz and the Chargers
Speaker 2: just blocked it like it was just like they just
Speaker 2: picked it up, like it was just it was totally
Speaker 2: and completely ineffective, like the back just picked up. Gonzo
Speaker 2: stood him up. No pressure on Herbert. He had a
Speaker 2: picnic back there and made a throw and converted and
Speaker 2: moved the chains that has been Alarming to me too
Speaker 2: is the fact that they have had no they have
Speaker 2: no sort of schematic ability to get after the quarterback
Speaker 2: and any sense of the word. And I get like,
Speaker 2: you know, you you wish that you could just do
Speaker 2: it with a four men rush. Their four man rush,
Speaker 2: they have the fewest sacks allowed, a fewest sacks generated
Speaker 2: in the league from a four man rush. They've only
Speaker 2: sacked the quarter back fourteen times. I'm surprised all year
Speaker 2: with the four men rush's last in the league. So
Speaker 2: they can't really just rush four and get home, that's
Speaker 2: for sure. But they also haven't done a really great
Speaker 2: job of manufacturing pressure as well. So if it is
Speaker 2: this coaching staff and they are back next year, that
Speaker 2: has to be the number one question. Is Okay, we
Speaker 2: could go out and draft Abdul Carter and throw a
Speaker 2: bag at you know, pass rushers in free agency or
Speaker 2: something like that, and maybe just upgrade the talent and
Speaker 2: hope that that improves. But to me, it's more complicated
Speaker 2: than that. They have to figure out why are our
Speaker 2: disguised rushes, like our blitzes, our simulated pressures things like that,
Speaker 2: like why did those not work? Like what we do
Speaker 2: we have a tell? Do we?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: It almost feels like they have a tell. And I'm
Speaker 2: not like advanced enough to figure out what the tell is,
Speaker 2: but like, it almost feels like they have a tell
Speaker 2: because every single time they run one of these like
Speaker 2: simulated pressures or creepers or whatever, the disguised rush, it
Speaker 2: just gets bocked. So like something is telling the offense
Speaker 2: that this is coming. I don't know what, but I
Speaker 2: have a big feeling that they have a tell.
Speaker 3: I can see it.
Speaker 2: Three up, three down? What's what are your Do you
Speaker 2: have any ups? I do have two ups. I have
Speaker 2: two ups as well.
Speaker 3: Okay, uh, number one is cold strange. Now, he wasn't
Speaker 3: perfect in this game. He certainly wasn't perfect, but he
Speaker 3: never even started a game at center in college. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so to come into the NFL against a good defensive
Speaker 3: front that the Chargers have, he had.
Speaker 2: He didn't have any bad snaps.
Speaker 3: He did have the one that was early late in
Speaker 3: the game, and he was called for an illegal man
Speaker 3: downfield at one point, but again for guys starting his
Speaker 3: first game ever at center at this level, it certainly
Speaker 3: could have been a lot where and also a guy
Speaker 3: coming back from it was a very serious knee injuries,
Speaker 3: starting his first game at center, in his first game
Speaker 3: back for me very significant nee injury, hadn't played an
Speaker 3: over a year, didn't have that many practices to get
Speaker 3: ready for this game. It certainly could have been maybe
Speaker 3: should have been a lot worse. I was very impressed
Speaker 3: with what Cole Strange did. Does that mean he's the
Speaker 3: center of the future after David Andrews.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I need to see a little more, but realistically, as
Speaker 3: good of a start as you could ask for from
Speaker 3: Cole Strange in that center role.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought he looked the part of the position.
Speaker 2: I didn't think he was looked completely overwhelmed or out
Speaker 2: of place or anything like that. Now, there were definitely
Speaker 2: some issues with Blitz pickups and protections and things like that.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know how many times is Derwin James
Speaker 2: just gonna come in unblocked, right? Like? There has to
Speaker 2: be ways that they can be better in that regard
Speaker 2: with Cole Strange making the calls and things like that.
Speaker 2: I would get venture to say that there were probably
Speaker 2: some errors there by the pre snap processing of BOTZ
Speaker 2: pickup and protections and things like that. And you know,
Speaker 2: in the run game. I still felt like there were
Speaker 2: times where he was getting out muscled by the DT's
Speaker 2: on the Chargers, but I agree those were like sort
Speaker 2: of my nip picks I guess of this game for him.
Speaker 2: But I overall, I thought that it was encouraging, like,
Speaker 2: let's see what this looks like after a full offseason
Speaker 2: in training camp and just looking at David Andrews's injury history.
Speaker 2: Love David Andrews, but he's had a lot of injuries.
Speaker 2: At this point. I don't know if David Andrews is
Speaker 2: gonna come back next year and be the same guy.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if we're going to be in
Speaker 2: a situation where we're two weeks into training camp and
Speaker 2: he kind of realizes that he doesn't have it anymore, Right, Like,
Speaker 2: I hope that's not the case, but you have to
Speaker 2: prepare for that outcome, and maybe cold Strange is the
Speaker 2: backup plan there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, at the very least, we'll see what
Speaker 3: he does on Sunday, but at the very least you
Speaker 3: have an option. I would still like to see them
Speaker 3: take a center, maybe on day three, because even if
Speaker 3: cold Strange is the guy, you now need his backup, right, But.
Speaker 2: It was he looked good for what it was. I
Speaker 2: was impressed for what that was. Yeah, Okay, My number
Speaker 2: one up in this game was Anthony Jennings. I did
Speaker 2: two up. I did won an offense, one in defense.
Speaker 2: Anthony Jennings I thought was the one guy that kind
Speaker 2: of came to play on the defense. Had those two
Speaker 2: run stuffs early in the game, very first play of
Speaker 2: the game, stuff to a run to try to set
Speaker 2: the tone a little bit. I also had him with
Speaker 2: four quarterback pressures in this game. I thought this was
Speaker 2: a nice bounced back game for him after he struggled
Speaker 2: a little bit in Buffalo. And you know, I think
Speaker 2: he's a solid player for them. Do I think he's
Speaker 2: a game changer. No, but I think that he has
Speaker 2: a role in the defense in the NFL, setting the edge,
Speaker 2: playing first and second down, and they have something in
Speaker 2: that in that respect.
Speaker 3: He's my other up.
Speaker 2: Okay. My other up was just Tomario Douglas because the
Speaker 2: touchdown was the only offensive play they made all day
Speaker 2: and it was really him, Like, not to take anything
Speaker 2: away from Drake May, but it was he made the
Speaker 2: hell of the catch.
Speaker 3: I'll get Drake May and Cole Strange gets some credit
Speaker 3: to for like getting that free play, getting the snap off.
Speaker 3: It's an unreal catch. I was attempted to put Douglas.
Speaker 3: Who do you put the fault on on the blown
Speaker 3: pitch plays it Douglas for not getting the spot in time,
Speaker 3: or May for the toss to out in front of.
Speaker 2: Him, I put I would put it mostly on May.
Speaker 2: I don't think it was a great toss, And I
Speaker 2: also I am with you that in terms of the
Speaker 2: design of the play, I didn't love that it was
Speaker 2: a toss to begin with. Yeah, so the Bills ran
Speaker 2: it as a toss on the goal line to Khalil Shakir,
Speaker 2: But I don't know if it was supposed to be
Speaker 2: a toss, it might have just ended up being a
Speaker 2: toss because it just didn't hit exactly how they wanted
Speaker 2: it to hit. Kind of similarly to this one. The
Speaker 2: Lions always run this play as a handoff. It's a
Speaker 2: straight handof.
Speaker 3: So most of the time when I see that play
Speaker 3: as a toss, it's at the college level. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: it's a little easier to do because you run it,
Speaker 3: you motion the guy from the short side, so he's
Speaker 3: not coming as far from the from the sideline with
Speaker 3: the hashes being further out. I'm trying to remember if
Speaker 3: I've seen as a toss in the NFL. I was
Speaker 3: trying to find it. Sure I have, but in the
Speaker 3: NFL that's usually a handoff play.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought that it should have been a handoff play,
Speaker 2: and it didn't sound like it was ever supposed to
Speaker 2: be a handoff play, Like I think that was a
Speaker 2: toss all the way. Yeah, So yeah, I I didn't
Speaker 2: put it on Douglas, and I thought again that his
Speaker 2: touchdown catch and the adjustment that he made and the
Speaker 2: catch that he made was in an incredible catch and
Speaker 2: it was really the only offensive highlight of the game.
Speaker 2: So yep, there you go, all right to the downs.
Speaker 3: So my biggest issue in this game was the situational defense. Yeah,
Speaker 3: ten of seventeen on third down, the charges, ten of
Speaker 3: seventeen on third down. They were good in the red zone,
Speaker 3: they were good in the two minutes. The defense wasn't
Speaker 3: good overall in this game, but it felt like every
Speaker 3: single potential pivot moment you saw some of the worst
Speaker 3: performances they had throughout the afternoon. Yeah, and that goes
Speaker 3: to coaching, That goes to coaching, so that that was
Speaker 3: the biggest thing that stood out to me. There's been
Speaker 3: a lot made about the time of possession. Patriots had
Speaker 3: the ball for under twenty minutes, by the way, s
Speaker 3: their second such game this year. It's the first time
Speaker 3: since at least the eighties that that's happened. Yeah, but
Speaker 3: and a lot of people looked at that as the
Speaker 3: offense and look, the offense couldn't stay on the field, certainly,
Speaker 3: but some of that was the defense couldn't get off either.
Speaker 3: They were some long drives in that game. Yeah, from
Speaker 3: the Chargers. The situational defense was just not there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I looked some of this up. I'm not a
Speaker 2: big time of possession guy, as you could probably imagine.
Speaker 3: Well, have the Chargers ran seventy seven plays? Yeah, that's
Speaker 3: an absurd now, as I'm saying, and I want to
Speaker 3: double check.
Speaker 2: To defensive film, was thirty minutes seventy that's insane offense.
Speaker 3: You don't have teams that run seventy seven plays in
Speaker 3: an overtime game.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's insane when you look at time of possession.
Speaker 2: I think you know the reason why. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: not big on time of possession Sometimes just because of
Speaker 2: the context right of why you're on the field and
Speaker 2: why you're not.
Speaker 3: Well, that's why I think play disparity fits at So yeah,
Speaker 3: for the disparities point Chargers ran seventy seven plays, it's
Speaker 3: not like it was a quick game.
Speaker 2: Patriots ran forty eight. Yeah. Yeah, So last year it
Speaker 2: felt like the Patriots defense was on the field a
Speaker 2: lot because of the offense, because they were good on
Speaker 2: third down last year there I think they were ninth
Speaker 2: in the league. I want to say on third down
Speaker 2: and twenty three like they were. It wasn't because they
Speaker 2: were letting teams extend drives all the time. Right this
Speaker 2: year both have been a problem they have the offense
Speaker 2: can't stay on the field and the defense can't get
Speaker 2: off of it. The defense right now is bottom third
Speaker 2: of the league. And third down I want to say
Speaker 2: they're twenty fourth or one of them's twenty fourth and
Speaker 2: one of them is twenty seventh. I don't know which
Speaker 2: one's red zone and which one's third down off the
Speaker 2: top of my head. So basically they're they're not good
Speaker 2: on third down on defense. So now the problem is
Speaker 2: is that the offense can't sustained drives but also the
Speaker 2: defense can't get off the field, so some of this
Speaker 2: time of possession stuff is self inflicted for the defense
Speaker 2: this year. Maybe you couldn't say that in twenty two
Speaker 2: and twenty three, but this year this is definitely some
Speaker 2: self inflicted stuff on the defensive side. I went with
Speaker 2: the player a couple of players, and then I had
Speaker 2: one like sort of like what you just did. But
Speaker 2: Number one down for me in this game is Jonathan Jones.
Speaker 2: I mean, I hate to pick on Jonathan Jones because
Speaker 2: I love Jonathan Jones, but eight catches, ninety one yards,
Speaker 2: gave up a touchdown. You know, mcconkee just was too
Speaker 2: good for him, Like he was just outclassed by Malconukee
Speaker 2: in this game. That does not bode well to me
Speaker 2: for John Jones long term. I know he's really good
Speaker 2: against Shakir. He deserves his flowers for that. I gave
Speaker 2: him to him last week. But it seems like this
Speaker 2: has been more of what we've gotten from John Jones
Speaker 2: this year than the Shakiir game. Kind of felt like
Speaker 2: an outlier a little bit for him. And as we
Speaker 2: start to talk about the draft and the offseason, I
Speaker 2: don't know how you go into next year with Jonathan
Speaker 2: Jones and Marcus Jones. Is your your number two and
Speaker 2: number three corners? I think you need to upgrade the
Speaker 2: number two cornerback spot and put the Joneses back in
Speaker 2: the slot, like if the you know that. To me,
Speaker 2: Jonathan Jones at this point is probably more of like
Speaker 2: a safety corner. Like he's probably like a nickel or
Speaker 2: a dime safety corner and you know, maybe plays a
Speaker 2: little bit in the deep part of the field a
Speaker 2: little more next year if he's back, I don't know
Speaker 2: if his days of I'm gonna take this guy in
Speaker 2: man to man coverage for four quarters, I don't know
Speaker 2: if that is in him anymore. I think we might
Speaker 2: have moved past that stage of his career. So just
Speaker 2: from a bigger picture standpoint, not depict so much on
Speaker 2: John Jones. I I feel like cornerback two is now
Speaker 2: right on the list, you know, put it right in
Speaker 2: the top five. Yeah, it's a it's a major need.
Speaker 2: I agree with you. Yeah, all right, number two.
Speaker 3: Uh, Kyle Dugar And I feel like I have him
Speaker 3: on it every week at this point, and is what
Speaker 3: I get, He's battling through something, but he just can
Speaker 3: there continues to be mistackles, miscoverage assignments, like a couple
Speaker 3: of times a game where he is like it kind
Speaker 3: of seems like teams are targeting him now, yeah, to
Speaker 3: try to take advantage of him, and it's you hope
Speaker 3: it's just the ankle and he comes back next year
Speaker 3: looking more like the guy he was in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3: But this version of him is they he can't play
Speaker 3: the role they needed to play.
Speaker 2: So his eyes are the problem to me right now.
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm sure that some of the recovery
Speaker 2: is being affected by the ankle. I mean, like, you know,
Speaker 2: recovering when you're your fall step or you're you're a
Speaker 2: little bit out of position. Some of that is probably
Speaker 2: due to physical issues, but right now, his eyes just
Speaker 2: seemed to constantly be in the wrong places in the
Speaker 2: passing game. And yeah, he was a part of two
Speaker 2: touchdowns in this game where I just felt like his
Speaker 2: eyes are just not in the right places. You know,
Speaker 2: mcconkee runs a really nifty route on the short touchdown
Speaker 2: that he scored down in the red zone. I don't
Speaker 2: know if I've necessarily seen that route before out of
Speaker 2: that sort of look, so they kind of mimicked crossers,
Speaker 2: you know, down in the red zone, and then he
Speaker 2: like pivoted out of his crosser. It was pretty cool.
Speaker 2: It was a great route. So that one I don't
Speaker 2: necessarily kill Dugger for because that's just a fantastic route
Speaker 2: and a really nice play design by the Chargers. That
Speaker 2: to me goes back to the Chargers saw in film. Okay,
Speaker 2: the Patriots in the red zone are going to switch
Speaker 2: off these crossers, right, They're gonna be in man to
Speaker 2: man and when the crosser runs across the field, he's
Speaker 2: gonna pass it off to this free safety and then
Speaker 2: replace the free safety. So they showed like McConkey was running,
Speaker 2: the defender dropped off McConkie, and then mcconkee went back
Speaker 2: out the other way. So that to me is coaching
Speaker 2: like that was a game plan to wrinkle or play
Speaker 2: that the Chargers had ready for how the Patriots handle
Speaker 2: crossers in the low red zone. So I don't necessarily
Speaker 2: put that as much on Dougger as I put it
Speaker 2: on Mayo and Covington. But the McConkie forty yard touchdown,
Speaker 2: I'm not one hundred percent sold that what coverage they
Speaker 2: were in because Douggers eyes are in the backfield the
Speaker 2: entire time, and he's like reading it almost like he's
Speaker 2: in zone, like a hook or something like that over
Speaker 2: the middle of the field. And then John Jones opens
Speaker 2: like he has inside help and then mccauky just runs
Speaker 2: right by him. And I don't know if Dougger was
Speaker 2: supposed to help. I don't know if John Jones just
Speaker 2: got beat. I kind of settled more towards John Jones
Speaker 2: just got beat. But like again, it's just Dougger's eyes
Speaker 2: are just locked into the backfield on the quarterback and
Speaker 2: he has no spatial awareness of like that there's a
Speaker 2: receiver running right by him right And the same thing
Speaker 2: happened on the crossing route early in the game by
Speaker 2: Davis where Austin thought he was passing and Dugger just
Speaker 2: was not ready to pick it up. So right now,
Speaker 2: to me, it's this is like he's in a mental
Speaker 2: pretzel back there. And I think that for the Patriots
Speaker 2: moving forward, I hate to keep adding needs to the list,
Speaker 2: but like free safety, it just he's not a free stating.
Speaker 3: You know where I've been on this, Like they they
Speaker 3: moved on from Devin mccordy with zero plan. Well, then
Speaker 3: we're gonna play guys out of position.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna play like Peppers and Dugger.
Speaker 3: That was their planet left tackle, That's been their planing
Speaker 3: at so many positions. We're just gonna play players we
Speaker 3: trust out of position. But just because you trust a
Speaker 3: guy doesn't mean he can play her position on the field.
Speaker 3: So they need they need to find Like I was
Speaker 3: texting about this guy the other night. You know how
Speaker 3: high I am on this guy. Happened since his draft.
Speaker 3: They need to find their Kirby Joseph.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a good play.
Speaker 3: That guy's a difference maker.
Speaker 2: It just feels like they were they were banking on
Speaker 2: being interchangeable, like they were gonna be. They're probably thinking,
Speaker 2: we're gonna go into more too high, you know, post
Speaker 2: snap rotation. We're gonna start in too high. We're gonna rotate.
Speaker 2: And they thought we could rotate either Dugger or Peppers
Speaker 2: into the box. So because of we were going to
Speaker 2: be a little bit more disguise heavy, we're gonna be
Speaker 2: a little bit more deceptive of Okay, we could rotate
Speaker 2: either way. So now you have to account for the
Speaker 2: fact that you don't really know which way they're going.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, somebody's got to
Speaker 2: play off top, and somebody's got to be up top
Speaker 2: on third down, and someone's gonna end up up top,
Speaker 2: and if can that player play back there consistently well,
Speaker 2: and I just don't think Kyle Duggar has been able
Speaker 2: to do that, and teams know it. Teams are now
Speaker 2: just hunting him, all right. Number three?
Speaker 3: Where'd I go here?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: I went in the wrong word. I thought we're doing
Speaker 3: players offensive situationally again, same thing two for ten on
Speaker 3: third downs. The few times they got in the red zone,
Speaker 3: they couldn't get it going. Just the situational football in
Speaker 3: this one was not there.
Speaker 2: It was not good. Yeah, fair enough. Number three for me,
Speaker 2: I kind of went over it already with the pass
Speaker 2: Russ stuff, A nineteen percent pressure eight. I think they
Speaker 2: had nine pressure dropbacks on forty one attempts or forty
Speaker 2: one drop backs by Justin Herbert just nowhere near him.
Speaker 2: And this was in a mush rush. Compact the quarterback,
Speaker 2: you know, compact the pocket, keep the quarterback in the pocket.
Speaker 2: They came after him. They blitz them thirteen times, and
Speaker 2: they did not get home. They got on thirteen blitzes.
Speaker 2: They had one pressure on thirteen blitzes. Think about that.
Speaker 3: That's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: They pressured him one time, they blited them thirteen times.
Speaker 2: That was way more than they blitzed Josh Allen, way
Speaker 2: more than they blitzed Kyler Murray. Like, this was not
Speaker 2: a we're going to keep the quarterback in the pocket game.
Speaker 2: They wanted to rush Justin Herbert. They couldn't get to him,
Speaker 2: that doubt. That's the bottom line. And their pass rush
Speaker 2: just continues to create. All right, do you have any more?
Speaker 2: I have one more go ahead, So I did put
Speaker 2: Drake May on here. This was my worst graded game
Speaker 2: for Drake May now, out of everybody involved in this
Speaker 2: entire organization. Yeah, the one guy I'm going to absolve
Speaker 2: sometimes right now is the rookie quarterback Like this is
Speaker 2: there's a lot wrong with the situation around Drake May.
Speaker 2: But I had him with the minus ten negative plays.
Speaker 2: I had him with e turn over play obviously on
Speaker 2: the toss you know, whatever the heck that was supposed
Speaker 2: to be on the play to pop Douglas. I just
Speaker 2: thought in this game, though, what bothered me a little
Speaker 2: bit about the way he played, I thought he was
Speaker 2: a little bit premature, Like leaving the pocket. I thought
Speaker 2: he left the pocket early a handful of times, he said,
Speaker 2: only once on the play he got his belt wrung on.
Speaker 2: That was part of it. But even like the Derwin
Speaker 2: James fifteen yard sack on fourth and two, him rolling
Speaker 2: to his right and trying to run away from the
Speaker 2: pressure felt very Caleb Williams to me, right, it just
Speaker 2: didn't really see it. Pre Snap was caught a little
Speaker 2: bit off guard by it. All he had to do.
Speaker 2: He had Antonio Gibson in the flat like right behind
Speaker 2: the blitz, Like all you had to do was hit
Speaker 2: the back hot out of the blitz, right. And I
Speaker 2: don't want to see him develop bad habits. That's the
Speaker 2: last thing I want to see him do. And some
Speaker 2: of these, you know, the teams now are just kind
Speaker 2: of recognizing that he's going to leave the pocket if
Speaker 2: you invite him to leave the pocket, and so they
Speaker 2: kind of are to him about it. And this is
Speaker 2: one thing that I'm going to nitpick him on, Like
Speaker 2: he's got to play quarterback in these situations from the
Speaker 2: pocket if they're gonna blitz him and they're gonna make
Speaker 2: them hot and they're gonna charge him up, like he's
Speaker 2: got to beat them with throwing the football, like make
Speaker 2: a quick decisive decision and get the football out. I
Speaker 2: thought there was three or four times in this game
Speaker 2: where he had options against the Blitz and just kind
Speaker 2: of froze on the last derwin James sack, and then
Speaker 2: the other ones. Was just kind of running around and
Speaker 2: don't I don't want to see him doing that that often.
Speaker 2: So that was that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not one of his better games. I just felt
Speaker 3: like there was too much going on around him to
Speaker 3: put him on the downs.
Speaker 2: But yeah, totally fair. All right, do you have any more? No,
Speaker 2: it's it, okay, So let's let's do offseason. Let's talk
Speaker 2: about this game on Sunday a little bit too. Not
Speaker 2: about the strategy of you know x's and o's of
Speaker 2: how they're gonna take down the Bill's backups, but where
Speaker 2: do you stand.
Speaker 3: On Well, I have one thought on that, okay, And
Speaker 3: I've been excited to give this take this week because
Speaker 3: I think it's a fun take. Okay, everybody's talked about
Speaker 3: and Alex Van Pelt said today Drake May is going
Speaker 3: to start, which by the way he should. I think
Speaker 3: I'm in the minority on this. I'm curious to hear
Speaker 3: what you think of this. Okay, I'm okay that Drake
Speaker 3: May is starting this game. Frankly, I think he should
Speaker 3: start this game. I think it's important to the Patriots
Speaker 3: organization that he starts this game. Now, I would do
Speaker 3: exactly what the Bills are doing. Yeah, play him for
Speaker 3: a series maybe two, mostly handoffs, take him out, But
Speaker 3: I would do it for the same reason the Bills
Speaker 3: are doing it. And I'm giving the Bills credit. Evans,
Speaker 3: So you know, I feel strongly about ows Drake May.
Speaker 3: We want Drake May to be face to the franchise,
Speaker 3: one of the faces of the league, elite starting quarterback.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Ye, what do elite starting quarterbacks do more than anything else?
Speaker 3: They start games? Play football, They play football, They start games.
Speaker 3: They have Brady starting streak, Peyton Manning had that long
Speaker 3: starting streak. That's why Alan's doing it. Let's say Drake
Speaker 3: May becomes like awesome in five years, right, Yeah, don't
Speaker 3: we want to kind of be hyping up how many
Speaker 3: games in a row he own. He has to do
Speaker 3: a better drum of protecting himself as a part is,
Speaker 3: but like, yeah, it's gonna be weird. We have to
Speaker 3: be like he started almost every game, but oh yeah,
Speaker 3: there was that one at the end of the year
Speaker 3: in Buffalo. And I think that matters to Drake May
Speaker 3: because I think Drake May wants to be viewed like
Speaker 3: a guy like Josh Allen. So if Josh Allen's going
Speaker 3: to start this game, if the Bills can risk Josh
Speaker 3: Allen for one series in order to extend his streak,
Speaker 3: if we want Drake May to have that same standing,
Speaker 3: start Drake May.
Speaker 2: I feel sly about this. I like it. I have
Speaker 2: no problem with them starting. I have no problem with it.
Speaker 2: Part two of the take.
Speaker 3: Everybody is acting like if Joe Milton plays the Patriots
Speaker 3: automatically lose the game.
Speaker 2: Are you offended because he's your guy? Well you are,
Speaker 2: you are a little bit.
Speaker 3: First of all, for that to happen, you also have to.
Speaker 2: Be became famous because you're Joe Milton line.
Speaker 3: I know. First of all, you also have to have
Speaker 3: people like the defense has to do their part, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I go back to and I've had fun bringing
Speaker 3: this name up all week. Yeah, Matt Flynn, Yeah, Matt
Speaker 3: Flynn in twenty eleven. Now it was the opposite situation.
Speaker 3: The Packers were in the playoffs. They were where the
Speaker 3: Bills are. They don't want to risk Aaron Rodgers. They
Speaker 3: put in Matt Flynn to make his second career starts.
Speaker 3: You know what his first career start was, You know
Speaker 3: what game, d Condy. He was fine in that game,
Speaker 3: he was fine. That was his third year in the league,
Speaker 3: fourth year in the league. He makes his second start
Speaker 3: Week seventeen against the Detroit Lions. Think about some of
Speaker 3: the quarterbacks the Packers have had. Matt Flynn set every
Speaker 3: single like all of the major single game passing records
Speaker 3: for the Green Bay Packers four hundred and eighty year
Speaker 3: contract he got from this six touchdowns against the Lions.
Speaker 3: Now he was a free agent. Joe Milton's not. He
Speaker 3: got what at the time was a significant contract. The
Speaker 3: Seahawks are ready to name him the starter. Now he
Speaker 3: lost out to a third round pick named Russell Wilson
Speaker 3: in training camp, then bounced around. He was even here
Speaker 3: at one point, But like, who's to say this isn't
Speaker 3: a showcase game for Joe Milton. This is the packerway,
Speaker 3: this is the thing.
Speaker 2: It's a fourth preseason.
Speaker 3: Right, You draft all these quarterbacks with the idea that
Speaker 3: you can't have too many. If you end up with
Speaker 3: a good one, they're worth something you can trade them.
Speaker 3: So I don't know why we're all just assuming Joe
Speaker 3: Milton's gonna go out there and be terrible. Yeah, And
Speaker 3: that way he can be good and the Patriots can
Speaker 3: still lose the game. We talked about the issues with
Speaker 3: the defense. Mitchell Trubisky's a backup, but I was a
Speaker 3: Paul or Fred who said earlier, like, he's not exactly
Speaker 3: a low level backup. He's kind of bad you compare
Speaker 3: to some of the other backups in the league. Fair enough, right,
Speaker 3: he's Is he a top forty quarterback in the league. No,
Speaker 3: you don't think so. I'd put him top forties or
Speaker 3: forty two. I think he's one of the ten best
Speaker 3: backups in the league.
Speaker 2: Okay, right, fair enough.
Speaker 3: So I'm just saying, don't run off Joe Milton.
Speaker 2: Fair enough. I'm not writing off Joe Milton. I also
Speaker 2: think that there's absolutely zero tape on Joe Milton, and
Speaker 2: the Bills will have no idea what the Patriots might
Speaker 2: actually do with Joe Milton.
Speaker 3: So even when you have tape on Joe Milton, he
Speaker 3: can still be kind of un predictable.
Speaker 2: I know, but I'm just saying, like, you know, it
Speaker 2: could be a little unpredictable, yeah, right, when you have
Speaker 2: a quarterback like that that's not played a single snap
Speaker 2: all year. But I would start Drake May in this
Speaker 2: game or don't have a problem. It's I probably I
Speaker 2: don't know where I this, but this is where I
Speaker 2: kind of wanted to go. Anyways, Like, you know, how
Speaker 2: should they approach this game? Is really the only story
Speaker 2: with this game, and I am I'll can't stress this enough.
Speaker 2: They're not They're not gonna tank guys. They're not gonna
Speaker 2: sign some quarterback off the street right and and play
Speaker 2: him on Sunday to purposely lose them.
Speaker 3: They're not gonna be all right, you know, we're down
Speaker 3: four with ten seconds to go, let's kick a field goal.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not gonna purposely lose the game. Okay, could
Speaker 2: they just lose it out right? We've seen them lose thirteen.
Speaker 2: Very possible. It's very possible.
Speaker 3: But no, you're not, especially because you've got to remember,
Speaker 3: for all these players, they're either trying to when teams
Speaker 3: evaluate players. They significantly wait games at the end of
Speaker 3: the year more than they wait the games at the beginning.
Speaker 3: They're not going to care about the circumstances in this
Speaker 3: game when they do that, especially for guys who are
Speaker 3: pending free agents or maybe aren't a lock to be
Speaker 3: back here next year. They want to put on a
Speaker 3: good tape because they want to keep their jobs in
Speaker 3: the NFL. The same for the coaches. Jarrodmeo coaching for
Speaker 3: his job, is Alex sant Pelt coaching for his job.
Speaker 3: They're not Why would they help an organization get the
Speaker 3: first overall pick when they don't know if they'll be
Speaker 3: part of that organization when they make that pick. There's
Speaker 3: no incentive there. The only one who has any incentive,
Speaker 3: it's it's the general manager on up now. If Drod
Speaker 3: Mayo has been told his job is safe, that could
Speaker 3: factor in a little bit. If he knows, no matter
Speaker 3: what happens, you're good. We want to pick. That's another conversation.
Speaker 3: But it doesn't happen. Tanking does not happen on a
Speaker 3: game day level.
Speaker 2: I just think that that is such a terrible look.
Speaker 2: Like to your point, let's say they get the ball
Speaker 2: back with like a minute and a half to go
Speaker 2: within one score and they just kneel it out. Not happen, right,
Speaker 2: it's not happy. You can't do that, And you know what,
Speaker 2: it shouldn't.
Speaker 3: I don't you know, do you want people in your
Speaker 3: organization that are not invested solely in winning games?
Speaker 2: You want apex competitors.
Speaker 3: I go back to the scene in the Last Dance
Speaker 3: of Michael Jordan at the end of that last game
Speaker 3: of his rookie year where they try to take them
Speaker 3: off the floor because they're trying to get a better
Speaker 3: draft pick, and he's losing his mind because he's like,
Speaker 3: we have a game to win today. What are you
Speaker 3: talking about?
Speaker 2: The draft?
Speaker 3: So you know, those are the kind of competitors you want.
Speaker 3: I think Drake may may kind of be wired that way,
Speaker 3: which is part of the reason I would let him
Speaker 3: get the start, even if it's ceremonial. But yeah, that's
Speaker 3: not gonna happen. Now that being said, the stakes themselves.
Speaker 3: I heard you talking about this earlier when it comes
Speaker 3: to the first overall pick.
Speaker 2: Well, let's get to that in a stade. Okay, all right,
Speaker 2: last thing on this point of it. I've gone back
Speaker 2: and forth on how much Drake may should play in
Speaker 2: this game, because my biggest fear in the way that
Speaker 2: things have gone in the last couple of years for
Speaker 2: the Patriots, always thinking worst case scenario. Frankly, my biggest
Speaker 2: fear is that there's you know, I heard you know
Speaker 2: on your station a lot about like, well, he has
Speaker 2: all off season to get to like recover from an injury. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 2: if he gets nicked up in the game and he
Speaker 2: has a hand, you know, his hand, he stubs a finger,
Speaker 2: sure he has plenty of time to get over that.
Speaker 2: What happens if he blows out his knee, What happens
Speaker 2: if he tears in a kill that's the kind of injury.
Speaker 2: What happens if he separates his shoulder and now he
Speaker 2: can't throw for four months?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 2: Like what those types of things are derailing to an
Speaker 2: entire off season that I fear. I worry about because
Speaker 2: this is a huge off season for his development. This
Speaker 2: is the year two leap right right that he should
Speaker 2: be in the lab working with his whoever it is,
Speaker 2: you know, Clyde Christensen or whoever he decides to work
Speaker 2: with in the off season. That's who he worked with
Speaker 2: pre draft and down at North Carolina, so I assume
Speaker 2: it would be the same. He is supposed to be
Speaker 2: in the gym working out, he's supposed to be throwing,
Speaker 2: he's supposed to be working on his craft. He's supposed
Speaker 2: to be working with receivers and having passing camps and
Speaker 2: things like that with the receivers away from the facility.
Speaker 2: If he isn't able to do all those things, and
Speaker 2: god forbid, if he's at all limited in training camp
Speaker 2: next year, yeah, that is very detrimental to your twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five season. It could be detrimental to his whole career.
Speaker 2: I don't need to be hyperbolic about it, but it could.
Speaker 2: It could literally derail a lot of his development. So
Speaker 2: that I have big, big fears about. But to segue,
Speaker 2: what I don't have necessarily is big of a fear about.
Speaker 2: And I think we might disagree a little bit on this.
Speaker 2: I am not as gung ho or like married or
Speaker 2: you know, inclined to need the number one overall pick.
Speaker 2: I don't in this particular year. So if there was
Speaker 2: a Trevor Lawrence, Caleb Williams, you know, level quarterback prospect, well,
Speaker 2: in a couple of years, if there was that level
Speaker 2: of quarterback prospect where you knew definitively that you were
Speaker 2: going to get an absolute you know, Andrew Luck, that
Speaker 2: you were going to get an absolute haul for the
Speaker 2: number one overall pick. I'd feel very, very differently. But
Speaker 2: I don't feel as though this is this draft. I
Speaker 2: even if you do get the number one overall pick
Speaker 2: and you do get a partner to trade down with,
Speaker 2: I don't think it's gonna be at the same level.
Speaker 2: I think it's gonna be a discounted sale. Now we'll
Speaker 2: get to that the second because I'd still do it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'd still do it, But I don't think that you're
Speaker 2: going to get I don't even think you're gonna get
Speaker 2: what the Bears got from Carolina a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2: I know I think you will. I I we're close
Speaker 2: to it.
Speaker 3: Just because it is the first overall pick, it does
Speaker 3: have inherent value. And at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: you don't need every team to love the top quarterback,
Speaker 3: but you need to get No.
Speaker 2: You don't know, you don't do no.
Speaker 3: You just need one team and a really good negotiating.
Speaker 2: No, you absolutely need multiple teams. You need one team
Speaker 2: a really good negotiating at least need the how many
Speaker 2: facade of multiple how many teams were do you remember
Speaker 2: how many teams were clamoring to get up for Bryce Young?
Speaker 3: It was like three?
Speaker 2: Okay, but that creates a market, like if you if
Speaker 2: there's only one team, Let's say the only team that
Speaker 2: has any interest in drafting Shador Sanders in the top
Speaker 2: ten is the Vegas Raiders for obvious reasons. Yep, it's
Speaker 2: been all over it right like that. He wants to say.
Speaker 3: If you look at it and you say that because
Speaker 3: the Raiders are at eight right now, this is what
Speaker 3: it costs for nine a couple of years ago, pay up.
Speaker 3: And if the Raiders say, we won't, say fine, you're
Speaker 3: not gonna have a quarterback.
Speaker 2: How do you know that they're not gonna have a quarterback? Though?
Speaker 3: Like Shure's not falling to nine if they don't find
Speaker 3: not because should you think is gonna fall the nine?
Speaker 3: You think we're gonna go eight picks without the court?
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, this is not This has bugging the crap
Speaker 3: out of me. It's not twenty twenty two. I think
Speaker 3: these guys are not Kenny Pickett. Shad Sanders is such
Speaker 3: a better prospect I think than Kenny Pickett was. I
Speaker 3: think he's he's a significantly he's a lot closer.
Speaker 2: I'm not young than he is. To Kenny Pickett. I'm
Speaker 2: not giving up anything for Sanders, He's a lot. If
Speaker 2: I'm the Vegas Raiders.
Speaker 3: These teams are so dumb about quarterbacks.
Speaker 2: I hear you. But if I'm the Vegas Raiders, and
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that I wouldn't put a package together.
Speaker 2: But if I'm the Vegas Raiders, I'm putting together a
Speaker 2: realistic package. Not what people want from a Patriots angle,
Speaker 2: not multiple first round picks into the future. I'm putting
Speaker 2: it together, a realistic package. And I'm saying to the Patriots,
Speaker 2: if you don't want to take the deal, We're gonna
Speaker 2: roll the dice, make the Giants take them second over.
Speaker 2: And so all right, you want to talk about the Giants,
Speaker 2: because I think the Giants are gonna do something different
Speaker 2: if they keep table.
Speaker 3: I that clip of It's Shane, right, Joe Shane. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that clip of Joe Shane essentially hanging up on Elliott
Speaker 3: Wolf last year with the or Elliewolf hanging up on
Speaker 3: Joe Shane with the offer for Drake May and Elliot
Speaker 3: Wolf was a million percent right to do that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: in New York Giants land, that clip is like Buckner
Speaker 3: the ball going through Buckner's legs in eighty six to
Speaker 3: Red Sox fans. Joe Shane has had to eat that
Speaker 3: clip from fans from the media all year. If I'm
Speaker 3: the page, because he didn't offer enough to make Because
Speaker 3: he didn't offer enough to make the trade.
Speaker 2: I don't think anything was going to make him make
Speaker 2: the trade. And I don't think so either. Like, obviously
Speaker 2: I don't think so either. If he said if it
Speaker 2: was you know, two three threes three two three three, right,
Speaker 2: it would have to have been something crazy.
Speaker 3: But there's still a frustration that that wasn't made. And
Speaker 3: we know NFL teams are reactive to public perception that
Speaker 3: clip no team should ever do in season off season
Speaker 3: hard knocks. Ever, again, that clip is going to sort
Speaker 3: of be the obituary when the Giants move on from him.
Speaker 3: That's gonna be a big part of it.
Speaker 2: Saying that he's never gonna sleep again if Saquon goes
Speaker 2: to the Eagles, and then he goes to the Eagles,
Speaker 2: and the point being like if I'm the Patriots.
Speaker 3: I'm reminding everybody, you want to risk passing on him,
Speaker 3: you want to risk your job passing on the guy.
Speaker 2: I'm not telling the Patriots. I try. I just think
Speaker 2: it's nuts.
Speaker 3: I don't know my theory, and I don't need to
Speaker 3: kind of be in a hole about it. I think
Speaker 3: there's a certain group of Patriots fans that want Travis
Speaker 3: Hunter so bad but know it's kind of an irresponsible
Speaker 3: pick that their argument is to prove that no pick
Speaker 3: is good and there's nothing else the Patriots can do,
Speaker 3: so they have to take Hunter. And I think that's
Speaker 3: kind of where this quarterback stuff is coming from. Shadur
Speaker 3: Sanders is a legitimate top five quarterback prospect. I think
Speaker 3: cam Ward is a legitimate top five quarterback.
Speaker 2: A single person that that like a single draft you know,
Speaker 2: analysts that does it year round, like Dame Brugler is
Speaker 2: saying that he'd have been quarterback seven for him in
Speaker 2: last year's draft, where Dane Bugler, JJ McCarthy, I don't remember,
Speaker 2: but Hi high okay, but they all had him high,
Speaker 2: like and where'd he go? Okay? Matt Miller just released
Speaker 2: his like first round grades. He has twelve of them
Speaker 2: this year, he said, you know, he doesn't have a lot.
Speaker 2: Neither quarterback is on there. That's crazy. Should here Sanders before?
Speaker 2: So last year, before uh deon kind of started talking
Speaker 2: about who's going back to school when we were really
Speaker 2: talking about Shoulder Sanders in that class, he was QB
Speaker 2: four if not QB three. Okay, so you're gonna take
Speaker 2: a guy that You're gonna take that guy number one overall,
Speaker 2: not not just number one overall. You're gonna trade up
Speaker 2: and you're gonna.
Speaker 3: Get yes, because teams are nuts about the quarterback position.
Speaker 3: But that's so what happened, what happened between last year
Speaker 3: and this year that should Her Sanders suddenly worse because
Speaker 3: he got better.
Speaker 2: He got better between I.
Speaker 3: Don't know why everybody who he is, but no, but
Speaker 3: he But so then what was he last year?
Speaker 2: Because it's night and day.
Speaker 3: He was talked about last year and he's being talked
Speaker 3: about now and it doesn't line up with the product
Speaker 3: on the field. I think everybody just wants to take
Speaker 3: their weird victory lap that this draft class sucks. Is
Speaker 3: it a great class?
Speaker 2: No, it's not.
Speaker 3: But that doesn't mean there's zero good players in it.
Speaker 3: And that seems to be everybody's argument that you'd be
Speaker 3: better off just not picking a player this year, And
Speaker 3: it's mind blowing to me.
Speaker 2: I didn't say that. I didn't say you're better off
Speaker 2: not picking a player. I do think you have to
Speaker 2: be selective in a draft like this because there's a
Speaker 2: lot of guys that, in my opinion, are low ceiling
Speaker 2: maybe high floor, but low ceiling players, and you don't
Speaker 2: want to pick a guy one to one overall who's like,
Speaker 2: at best, is going to be like a functional NFL starter.
Speaker 3: Look right, I'm glad the Patriots didn't punt on quarterback
Speaker 3: last year. I would not want to deal with this
Speaker 3: quarterback class if I was a team. But there are
Speaker 3: general managers, there are coaches out there that need a
Speaker 3: quarterback to save their jobs. That is the nature of
Speaker 3: the position in this league.
Speaker 2: But it's not just saving your job because you're willing,
Speaker 2: is not just taking the quarterback. I believe that Shador
Speaker 2: Sanders will go in the top ten. But if I,
Speaker 2: first of all, if I'm the Giants at you, I'm
Speaker 2: probably strongly considering like a Baker Mayfield Gino Smith type
Speaker 2: of approach where I'm I might look in the veteran
Speaker 2: market at a Sam Darnold. Yeah, or I might call
Speaker 2: Minnesota and ask if JJ McCarthy is available. So all right,
Speaker 2: let me ask you about this chapter said yesterday on ESPN,
Speaker 2: J McCarthy is worth a first plus? What's worth more
Speaker 2: JJ McCarthy or the first pick in the draft in
Speaker 2: this year? It might be JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 3: How is a guy who was ranked behind Sanders last
Speaker 3: year and has since I.
Speaker 2: Tore his acl who was ranking him behind Sanders?
Speaker 3: That was the I remember what the consensus was last
Speaker 3: year when Sanders dropped out. We were talking about Sanders
Speaker 3: in the same breath as May and Daniels and yes.
Speaker 2: We yes, we were, Yes we were. We were people
Speaker 2: talked about. The table was talking about him in the
Speaker 2: same breath as May and Daniel. I remember though, it
Speaker 2: was certainly in the McCarthy knicks. Like you want to
Speaker 2: make the argument that he was quarterback for next year
Speaker 2: or last year, if you put him in last year's class,
Speaker 2: I'm willing to let you make that argument, like you
Speaker 2: would you would put him ahead of Penix.
Speaker 3: Everybody at Penis is a second round pick. Do you
Speaker 3: not remember this?
Speaker 2: You were the one that didn't. So I'm trying to
Speaker 2: give you credit.
Speaker 3: I know, and this is me telling you I have generally,
Speaker 3: have I or have I not been generally? Will Levis
Speaker 3: was another one. I was the one on here. Okay,
Speaker 3: so furious that people are talking about but these guys
Speaker 3: you that you were right on. You're telling me now
Speaker 3: that Shador Sanders is worth the number one overall.
Speaker 2: Pick.
Speaker 3: I feel like he's not telling you. I'm not telling you.
Speaker 3: I'm not telling you he's worth the number one overall.
Speaker 6: Pick.
Speaker 3: I'm telling you that generally have a pretty good understanding
Speaker 3: of how the quarterback market is going to shake out.
Speaker 2: And I'm giving you your flowers for that. But I'm
Speaker 2: also letting you know that the film is the film
Speaker 2: and he is not the film was you cannot if
Speaker 2: you're a general manager. And again I said, if I
Speaker 2: was the Raiders and I really fell in love with Shador, okay,
Speaker 2: I would offer a package to move up to number one.
Speaker 2: I just wouldn't make the offer as good as it was.
Speaker 2: Would have been a couple of years ago for better prospects,
Speaker 2: right like I wouldn't have made the same offer that
Speaker 2: the Bears made for the I keep doing that the
Speaker 2: Panther's made for Bryce Young. If it was like Trevor
Speaker 2: Lawrence's draft or Joe Burrow's draft or one of those situations,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't go there. Like Joe Burrow, if like that
Speaker 2: pick was for sale for the Bengals, like, that's like
Speaker 2: an RG three type trade, right, Like that's like.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm not necessarily saying they'll get the same,
Speaker 3: but I think they'll get something significant because again.
Speaker 2: The league is weird about quarterbacks. They don't really look
Speaker 2: at the value of the player specifically himself.
Speaker 3: It's I need a quarterback to save my job. Who
Speaker 3: is the best player available? That is often how the
Speaker 3: league looks at it.
Speaker 2: Sanders is gonna Jam's going to kill you because you're
Speaker 2: gonna go and you're gonna take Shador Sanders. He's not
Speaker 2: gonna be good enough to change the course of your franchise.
Speaker 2: And then the next year that takes over, he's gonna
Speaker 2: have no future first round picks because you trained.
Speaker 3: And how many quarterbacks have been drafted in the exact
Speaker 3: scenario you just laid out.
Speaker 2: So let me ask you this, because we're arguing. Okay, wait,
Speaker 2: let me make one more point.
Speaker 3: Then I'll get to point of ultimately trying to get
Speaker 3: to Okay, if the Patriots trade the first overall pick
Speaker 3: for less than what JJ McCarthy goes for their nuts,
Speaker 3: there's no reason a guy who has won last year
Speaker 3: on his contract and just blew out his knee should
Speaker 3: be worth more than the first overall pick in the
Speaker 3: draft when the quarterback that's most likely to go there
Speaker 3: was ranked ahead of him last year and we were
Speaker 3: doing headdame, true, We're false.
Speaker 2: I don't know if he was ranked ahead. I think
Speaker 2: that everybody's gonna say that JJ McCarthy was a better prospect.
Speaker 2: I'm looking at it right now.
Speaker 3: The last big book, the last consensus big board from
Speaker 3: last year that j Sanders was on, had him seventeenth.
Speaker 3: I don't know where McCarthy was at that point, but
Speaker 3: I don't think he was seventeenth.
Speaker 2: Okay, So let me ask you this, because we're gonna
Speaker 2: argue on yeah, for the next six months about this subject.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, what is a realistic trade
Speaker 2: that you would accept as the Patriots, Because to me,
Speaker 2: the realistic trade that I would look at is probably
Speaker 2: obviously your swapping picks this year in the first round
Speaker 2: I would get a twenty twenty five Day two pick,
Speaker 2: like a second or third round pick this year, on
Speaker 2: top of that a first round pick next year twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six first, and maybe if you could pry it
Speaker 2: out of them like a twenty twenty six third. So okay,
Speaker 2: that well, So it's basically the Panthers Bears trade without
Speaker 2: DJ Moore.
Speaker 3: So this goes to my take about Sunday's game. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I the first getting the first overall pick this year
Speaker 3: is not about this offseason.
Speaker 2: It's really about such a U take. Just listen. I'm
Speaker 2: not saying you're wrong, but it's just it's.
Speaker 3: Really about because I this is what I this is
Speaker 3: what you got to do all your film stuff all
Speaker 3: year and.
Speaker 2: Talk about DV and whatever. Okay, and I mostly let.
Speaker 4: You do it.
Speaker 2: I like Sean McDonough by the way.
Speaker 3: I think he's good. Test the tour was awesome yesterday. Okay,
Speaker 3: I know people don't like it.
Speaker 2: No one knows what we're talking about.
Speaker 3: Sunday is about the off season in twenty twenty six. Agreed,
Speaker 3: it's they can do what they need to do this
Speaker 3: off season without the first overall pick. Agree or disagree,
Speaker 3: they can have the off season they need to have. Okay,
Speaker 3: so when you talk about a trade, obviously you're you're
Speaker 3: swapping picks, right, I'm getting whatever I get back. And
Speaker 3: some of this is how far are you moving down?
Speaker 3: You're moving to four, you move in to eight. Right.
Speaker 3: The next ask for me is a future first. Yep,
Speaker 3: that is the most important asset the Patriots can get.
Speaker 3: Absolutely after that, and this is where I people think
Speaker 3: maybe I'm trying to pump up the draft class more
Speaker 3: than more than I should. My next ask after the
Speaker 3: future first is a future second. Okay, that's I would
Speaker 3: rather have a second, right, But I think I agree
Speaker 3: with you. But isn't every isn't every GM gonna know
Speaker 3: that the picks in twenty twenty six are more valuable. Well,
Speaker 3: the idea would be, if you're drafting a quarterback, and
Speaker 3: also one other take, you might get a haul for
Speaker 3: Travis Hunter two. But if you're drafting a quarterback.
Speaker 2: Crazy.
Speaker 3: If you're drafting quarterback, the idea is you're going to
Speaker 3: be better. You want to be the commanders, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: would you rather give up the thirty fifth pick in
Speaker 3: this draft or the fifty fifth pick in next year's draft?
Speaker 2: Well? And we know that this is how it works.
Speaker 2: You might think that the player at fifty five next
Speaker 2: year is going to be better.
Speaker 3: Than Okay, so that it comes down to that, So
Speaker 3: run me through your trade again.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's just again, it's just Yeah. Basically, the Bears
Speaker 2: Panthers trade from a couple of years ago for Bryce
Speaker 2: Young without Dj Moore. So it's swap your first ye
Speaker 2: give a future first round pick, a second round pick
Speaker 2: this year, and a third next year.
Speaker 3: So at that point what I would rather do, keep
Speaker 3: the third and get a player I would rather get.
Speaker 2: I'd rather get a player too, Yeah, but not living
Speaker 2: in La La Land. Yeah, I don't think the value
Speaker 2: is necessarily there. Now, if you're telling me that the
Speaker 2: player you're getting back is Jakobe Myers, like a good player,
Speaker 2: but not a not Max Crosby.
Speaker 3: Well, so when we do the Raiders and am I've
Speaker 3: looked at? Is Colton Miller?
Speaker 2: Sure? But I don't that one. I find really hard
Speaker 2: to believe that they would do. He's a twenty nine
Speaker 2: year old tackle, he's very good, and you're drafting a
Speaker 2: rookie quarterback and now you're not gonna have a blindside
Speaker 2: protector and you're not gonna have any assets to get one,
Speaker 2: And I think, yeah, he's entering a contract here. Okay,
Speaker 2: but again, like, where's your left tackle coming from?
Speaker 3: But are you gonna pay a thirty year old tack?
Speaker 3: He's a pre agent, right, are you gonna pay a
Speaker 3: thirty year old tackle?
Speaker 2: Just did it with Garret Bowles? All right, fair enough,
Speaker 2: same scenario. So I think you're right. It's it's first, second,
Speaker 2: first third.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Honestly, to me, even if you're like, let's say
Speaker 3: it's the Giants, right, let's say you're moving down one spot, swap,
Speaker 3: give me next year's first, I'm done. I don't need
Speaker 3: any more picks in that I would.
Speaker 2: I would like a Day two pick. It doesn't I'd
Speaker 2: like it. It doesn't have to be my full trade.
Speaker 2: Like if you only get one more Day two back,
Speaker 2: I'm okay. I am with you, though in general that
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that you roll over in negotiations. But
Speaker 2: I'm not necessarily gonna be too upset. You know, if
Speaker 2: they take a little bit of a discount because of
Speaker 2: the year, because of the draft class, I still would
Speaker 2: do it. I still think it's more important to get
Speaker 2: the package of picks to not do it at all.
Speaker 3: I think the prize here is twenty twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3: If they get that and obviously swap, you can't move
Speaker 3: out of the first round.
Speaker 2: The sea and I so the Fred and I got
Speaker 2: in and I don't know how far.
Speaker 3: So there's two trades in the last twenty five years
Speaker 3: of the first overall pick. One was the Bears Panthers
Speaker 3: back time. Yeah, the Titans moved back to fifteen, right,
Speaker 3: I think the furthest I go back is mate. So
Speaker 3: so let's say the Raiders fall to nine, which is realistic. Yeah, first, second,
Speaker 3: future first, and then one of Max Crosby or Colton Miller.
Speaker 2: That's a lot. That's a lot.
Speaker 3: But you're moving all the way back to nine. So
Speaker 3: now you probably don't have a shot at Banks, Carter
Speaker 3: or Campbell. If I'm going to pass on Banks, Carter
Speaker 3: and Campbell, I need a ship player.
Speaker 2: I guess I'm not totally sold. You're so you're saying
Speaker 2: goodbye to the to the two linemen.
Speaker 3: But at nine, yeah, okay, because I I think so, well,
Speaker 3: let me put it this way, probably if if at
Speaker 3: least one of them, but but if they fall that
Speaker 3: far they're probably guards, at which point the Patriots probably
Speaker 3: shouldn't be interested.
Speaker 2: Maybe. I mean, like Olufushanu went around there last year,
Speaker 2: you know, like Telesia, but he was the third tackle. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's That's the rub about this class is that
Speaker 2: there's not that talent. So that's so that's why I
Speaker 2: wouldn't move that far.
Speaker 3: So that's why move wouldn't move that far down unless
Speaker 3: I get like a player, right, because if you get
Speaker 3: Colton Miller, I don't mind that I passed on Will
Speaker 3: Campbell and Calvin Brice, right, so I know, but that's
Speaker 3: just the point. Yeah, I would try to stay in
Speaker 3: that four to five range. And if it's just swap
Speaker 3: next year's first and and then maybe it's give me
Speaker 3: a Day two pick this year next year second, third,
Speaker 3: like whatever you throw that in, I'd probably be good
Speaker 3: with that. The real prize is that twenty twenty five first,
Speaker 3: twenty six first, and then if you really want to
Speaker 3: get nuts and you really want to stretch this out, Evan,
Speaker 3: you have two first next year you trade down from
Speaker 3: one of those.
Speaker 2: Okay, we can get to that next you.
Speaker 3: Now, wait, Jeremiah Smith, Yeah, it is Jeremiah Smith like
Speaker 3: everything you've ever wanted what we have.
Speaker 2: Is he your fair?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 4: He is?
Speaker 2: He is?
Speaker 3: He already your favorite.
Speaker 2: Draft hospital We'll get it. We'll get to it.
Speaker 3: I want your Jeremiah say something nice about Jeremiah smith Man.
Speaker 2: There's too many things to say nice about Jeremiah Smith.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna make you choose between Jeremiah Smith and Ryan Williams.
Speaker 2: I think I already have a choice.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 2: Anyways, I I'm with you. I still do the trade
Speaker 2: even if it is perceived, you know, perceived from relatively
Speaker 2: speaking to other drafts as a little bit of a
Speaker 2: of a discount, a little bit of pennies on the dollar.
Speaker 2: I still think it's worth their while to do the
Speaker 2: trade down because I don't. I hate, hate, hate the
Speaker 2: idea of taking being forced into taking somebody one one
Speaker 2: this year for the Patriots. I don't want to take
Speaker 2: anybody at one one. I don't. I just don't. Travis
Speaker 2: Hunter awesome talent, scares the crap out of me. Like,
Speaker 2: what is he? Where does he play? What coaching staff
Speaker 2: are you giving him to?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: It just bad you've come around on that team. That
Speaker 2: terrifies me. I still think he could play a receiver
Speaker 2: in the league. I still lean towards him being a
Speaker 2: better corner, but I think he's gonna want to play receive.
Speaker 3: Everything I've heard is the league is drafting him as
Speaker 3: a corner.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he wants to play receiver. I know he does,
Speaker 2: but yeah, he wants to play both ways. Right, I'm
Speaker 2: coming around if I had, like you know that that
Speaker 2: guns your head, you have to take somebody one one.
Speaker 2: I am coming around a little bit to Abdul Carter
Speaker 2: because the biggest reason won Walker take it is a
Speaker 2: little bit, but I think Abdul Carter has more college
Speaker 2: production than Trayvon Walker did. I think the biggest reason why, though,
Speaker 2: is because I I want a super athlete. If I'm
Speaker 2: gonna have to draft somebody there, I want him to
Speaker 2: at least be a unicorn athletically. And I do think
Speaker 2: that Hunter and Abdul Carter both checked that box. So
Speaker 2: at least there's that, But their projection is murky in
Speaker 2: terms of Hunter especially, but even Carter. You know he's
Speaker 2: gonna be like a six ' to two, two hundred
Speaker 2: and forty five pound edge rusher, you know in this system,
Speaker 2: like what He's not gonna set the edge right, Like,
Speaker 2: it's not that he's not gonna be that kind of guy.
Speaker 2: So how do they use him? You know, how do
Speaker 2: they develop his pass rush toolbox? I think is really
Speaker 2: big too, because he's still a little bit raw after
Speaker 2: playing inside most of his career at Penn State and
Speaker 2: then playing on the line of scrimmage mostly this year. Like,
Speaker 2: he's still developing as a pass rusher. But the tools
Speaker 2: are the tools. I mean, he's a shot out of
Speaker 2: the cannon freak. But I still would just do the
Speaker 2: trade down to your point of how far down would
Speaker 2: you go? Yeah, I am trading down I and my
Speaker 2: two targets. When in a trade down, yep, I would
Speaker 2: love to say that Carter would still be on the
Speaker 2: board for you. Like, let's say it goes you know,
Speaker 2: quarterback hunter. You know, Mason Graham and Will Johnson are
Speaker 2: still sitting there.
Speaker 3: I don't think Mason Graham's going before Abdell Carter.
Speaker 2: Probably not. So maybe if you're at like three or four,
Speaker 2: you could maybe still talk about Abdol Carter being.
Speaker 3: Okay, if you're at four, you're gonna get one of.
Speaker 2: Carter Hunter, right, I truly believe that, So I like
Speaker 2: that that's where I sort of.
Speaker 3: Like, I think three or four is the sweet spot.
Speaker 3: I will remind people to the Browns do have all
Speaker 3: their picks back? Yeah, after the now there may be
Speaker 3: more of a day two quarterback team because they restructured
Speaker 3: Rogers contract. We were talking so you I was talking
Speaker 3: earlier about Drew Aller like that may be a landing
Speaker 3: spot for Drew Aller. The other question in this because
Speaker 3: I've been getting this a lot, and I asked you
Speaker 3: off the air where you stand, but just for you
Speaker 3: to give your take on the air.
Speaker 2: Can I give one more We're on that real quick. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The two guys that I'm looking at right now for
Speaker 2: the Patriots and Hunters his own thing, Like I think
Speaker 2: Hunter is you need to be organizationally aligned to draft
Speaker 2: a guy like Travis Hunter, that this is what he is,
Speaker 2: this is how we're going to play him, this is
Speaker 2: how we're going to manage it whatever. And frankly, with
Speaker 2: the state of the Patriots, I'm not sure that that
Speaker 2: organization that take a couple of weeks ago. So the
Speaker 2: two guys on the it's a take, welcome to it.
Speaker 2: What I'm looking at right now. Kelvin Banks, Abdul Carter,
Speaker 2: right like, whichever one doesn't, whichever doesn't go your way
Speaker 2: in free agency, right right, Like if you don't get
Speaker 2: the pass rusher in free agency or you don't get
Speaker 2: the tackle, whichever way it goes in free agency, I
Speaker 2: think you have a plug and play starter on the
Speaker 2: line or an impact past I'm with.
Speaker 3: I want a line of scrimmage player, one side the
Speaker 3: ball or the other trenches out. Remind me where you're
Speaker 3: at on Campbell.
Speaker 2: If his arms are checked off, then I'm in.
Speaker 3: But so would you put him in that group?
Speaker 2: If if he's even if it's like thirty two and
Speaker 2: seven eight, just get me as close to thirty three
Speaker 2: as you possibly can. I mean the clip that's going
Speaker 2: around of his answer at the press, like, that guy's
Speaker 2: just gonna be. He's gonna be an NFL football player
Speaker 2: for a decade. I don't know if it's gonna be
Speaker 2: inside or outside, but he's gonna make an offensive line better.
Speaker 2: He's gonna be a captain. Like he's gonna be sounds
Speaker 2: like Matthew McConaughey too. He's okay, he doesn't ad a
Speaker 2: little bit. He's gonna be an absolute stud in your
Speaker 2: locker room. In your on your football field everywhere. I
Speaker 2: just don't know where on the football field he's gonna be.
Speaker 3: So I'm with you, and like, if they walk away
Speaker 3: with Carter Banks and then Campbell with the astrisk with
Speaker 3: the arms right, Yeah, if they walk away with Carter
Speaker 3: Banks or tackle Will Campbell, Yeah that good.
Speaker 2: They did the job. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then just if they get the first over but
Speaker 3: they can do that without the first overall pick, which
Speaker 3: goes back to my take of the first overall picks
Speaker 3: really about the twenty twenty six offseason, not twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: So we're talking about spots to trade down, right, Tennessee
Speaker 3: at two seems like a spot. Cleveland at three seems
Speaker 3: like a spot. Giants at Fords it stands right now,
Speaker 3: Vegas at eight, I wouldn't go down to ten. Maybe
Speaker 3: New Orleans somehow slips a couple spots that I could
Speaker 3: be quarterback team.
Speaker 2: Would you?
Speaker 3: And I'm not talking about Fred's trade, I'm talking about
Speaker 3: swat picks, the trade we've been talking about. Would you
Speaker 3: trade the first overall pick in the division to the
Speaker 3: New York Jets.
Speaker 2: I lean towards yes, because I don't.
Speaker 3: Know you've changed your mind.
Speaker 2: Did I change them? Yeah, I text you about this
Speaker 2: the other day. I always, I always, like, am inclined
Speaker 2: to say no. But I don't really think very highly
Speaker 2: of Shador and I kind of feel like giving him
Speaker 2: to the Jets might actually be like kind of sabotaging
Speaker 2: the Jets in a way. I would not do it.
Speaker 3: So maybe if the Jets were at like three, I would, Yeah,
Speaker 3: on the off chance, or is a guy you put
Speaker 3: an elite quarterback on your schedule twice a year for
Speaker 3: ten years, there's no coming back.
Speaker 2: Now there's no coming back. I probably still say no,
Speaker 2: but I do find it funny now that they could
Speaker 2: hand him a overdrafted quarterback.
Speaker 3: Now, well, if I so, I made this joke yesterday
Speaker 3: because you know my take on Will Howard, Right, that's
Speaker 3: some NFLT. If you find out the Jets want Will
Speaker 3: Howard find have the pick. But if that being said,
Speaker 3: if I'm Elliott Wolf or whoever's in charge, right, I
Speaker 3: am leaking to everybody everybody under the sun that I'm
Speaker 3: taking the Jets call, and I'm taking the Jets call. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I'm using that to leverage these other teams. I'm
Speaker 3: not trading it to the Jets, but I'm not letting
Speaker 3: the Jets know that I'm not trading it to the Jets.
Speaker 2: All right, let's open it up because I know these
Speaker 2: people have been waiting and we're getting inundated with emails.
Speaker 2: That's the right word, right, We got lots of emails, Yes,
Speaker 2: we got calls. We got lots of emails. So Bridgestone
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Speaker 2: official for interest or of the New Old Patriots, I
Speaker 2: will tell you marine that Bob's read is the cleanest
Speaker 2: read we've ever had from Bob's That's how you write
Speaker 2: out or read. That's how you know that somebody actually
Speaker 2: read it out loud and said, is this going to
Speaker 2: be a tongue pretzel or is this actually going to
Speaker 2: come out clean? So good job, Bob's all right, let's
Speaker 2: get to these phones because people have been waiting. Patty
Speaker 2: is an aguam. What's up, Patty?
Speaker 7: What is up this afternoon?
Speaker 6: Gentlemen?
Speaker 2: How are we doing? All right?
Speaker 7: So Elevan your favorite time favorite discussion draft talk o kah.
Speaker 7: First off, Alex, I gotta tell you you can't compare
Speaker 7: that Packer's team to this Patriots team. That Packer's team
Speaker 7: went fifteen to one and we are abysmal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but when else am I gonna get to talk
Speaker 3: about Matt Flynn?
Speaker 8: Good point?
Speaker 7: Good point? But you know that hey, that game made
Speaker 7: that dude a lot of money, so it props to him.
Speaker 7: So I just want to say one thing to you, Evan,
Speaker 7: and then give you my the combos that I want.
Speaker 7: Never underestimate how stupid the Raiders are. Evan. I don't
Speaker 7: care that Tom Brady's in that organization. If Mark Davis
Speaker 7: wants Shador Sanders and we're sitting there at one, I
Speaker 7: would give it to him, you know, because I think
Speaker 7: we can get a first round pick, like you were saying,
Speaker 7: a future first round pick, swat picks, and a second
Speaker 7: round pick this year, and that'd be good enough for me.
Speaker 7: And I would take Banks if he's there. But I
Speaker 7: want to come away with a combination of one of
Speaker 7: these two players, either Banks and Jack Sawyer. I don't
Speaker 7: care if you've got to trade up to the first
Speaker 7: round to get him. But the guy I'm really I
Speaker 7: really want now is Abdul Carter because our defense sucks.
Speaker 7: And part of the reason why our defense sucks is
Speaker 7: we cannot generate a pass rush and we need a
Speaker 7: friggin dude, and that guy is a dude. Get him
Speaker 7: and trade up and try and get Connolly. So if
Speaker 7: we can get a combination of one of those two things,
Speaker 7: I'll wike away from this draft happy. That's all I got.
Speaker 2: Thanks it takes I feel like this is starting to
Speaker 2: become a little bit of group think, which is not
Speaker 2: an insult, you know, Abdul Carter or Banks, and then
Speaker 2: trading back up into the end of the first round
Speaker 2: to get whatever you don't get right and I I
Speaker 2: love to take And that's kind of where I am
Speaker 2: settled at this point. I sent you my little offseason plan.
Speaker 2: I think i'll tell you the next week. Jack was
Speaker 2: in that role. He was really freaking. I thought he's
Speaker 2: gonna be a second round pick after that game. Maybe not. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's ranked pretty low on our consensus website. I saw.
Speaker 3: I think they have an updated yet for yesterday's game.
Speaker 3: He's gonna I threw that out.
Speaker 2: I was thinking of throwing that out there too, because
Speaker 2: I like a couple of those guys. You know, I
Speaker 2: don't feel like you could ever go wrong with drafting
Speaker 2: talent from Ohio State, Like, do you know it's crazy?
Speaker 3: The two guys on Ohio State who are probably the
Speaker 3: best NFL prospects, neither one of them is draft out.
Speaker 2: I will get to it in a second.
Speaker 3: Well, I want to know if you watch Caleb Downs too,
Speaker 3: I don't think so. So if we're allow me for
Speaker 3: a second, Okay, twenty twenty five draft, we're done.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: Number one for the Patriots on the twenty twenty six
Speaker 3: draft board right now, and hopefully they're not picking this high.
Speaker 3: But Caleb Downs what position is safety? He was like
Speaker 3: Nick Saban's favorite, one of Nick Saban's favorite recruits ever.
Speaker 3: And then when Sabin retired, he transferred to Ohio State
Speaker 3: this year. Yeah, and he's like the guy. He does
Speaker 3: everything on that Ohio State defense. He's the only he
Speaker 3: was the only unanimous All American playing in the Rose
Speaker 3: Bowl yesterday. But he's a true sophomore. If he was
Speaker 3: in this draft, he's easily a top ten, probably a
Speaker 3: top five pick.
Speaker 2: So I always, I'm always with the Buckeyes, right. I
Speaker 2: feel like that's been almost neglected by the Patriots for
Speaker 2: some probably weird like Ohio State bias Nate Abner. Yeah,
Speaker 2: besides Nate Ebner, like we need some more Buckeyes here,
Speaker 2: that's where the talent is.
Speaker 3: Well maybe if a Buckeyes head coach.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's true. Jack Sawyer a maan, But yeah,
Speaker 2: I really liked this idea in my opinion, and I
Speaker 2: think they tried to pull it off last year and
Speaker 2: they just couldn't do it. Of trading, you know, you're
Speaker 2: gonna be at probably what thirty three, thirty four, thirty
Speaker 2: five something like that at the top of the second round.
Speaker 2: I would love to make two first round picks, especially
Speaker 2: in a year like this where it's a really thin
Speaker 2: draft at the top, like you might as well get
Speaker 2: two guys that are you know, consensus, you know, first
Speaker 2: rounders in this class. So there's a couple of guys
Speaker 2: that fit that bill to me, you know, Connorly certainly
Speaker 2: one of them if you don't get the tackle early,
Speaker 2: and I have a couple of others, but I want
Speaker 2: to save that for for recency bias here at the end.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm with Patty about that trade up. I
Speaker 2: feel like if you trade down, yeah, and then you
Speaker 2: accumulate the assets, and then you use one of those
Speaker 2: assets to then trade.
Speaker 3: Back up and they still right from the judn't trade,
Speaker 3: so then you.
Speaker 2: Make two first round picks. All right, Sean is in Florida.
Speaker 2: What's up Sean? Sean? Guys, Hey, how you doing.
Speaker 9: A great a happy New Year? I hope you both
Speaker 9: had a happy hanakah.
Speaker 2: Thank you to Joan, you know, welcome well.
Speaker 9: I hear a lot of talk about Joe Milton playing
Speaker 9: on Sunday, and it makes sense. One argument I haven't
Speaker 9: heard yet is something I wanted to bring up that
Speaker 9: we don't know if we're said it's going to be
Speaker 9: back next year. So, like Alex, you mentioned the Bills
Speaker 9: don't know much about Joe Milton to the Patriots. I
Speaker 9: want to see if this guy can run our offense.
Speaker 9: Can he be a backup next year? And Alex also,
Speaker 9: I like you're trying to get to the twenty twenty
Speaker 9: seven draft. I think that's going to be a good
Speaker 9: one because the Patriots, let's face if they're not a
Speaker 9: good team, they're not gonna be in playoffs in twenty
Speaker 9: twenty five or twenty twenty six. So looking at not
Speaker 9: just Jeremiah Smith, but also someone who'll probably see today
Speaker 9: in Emitt Mosley, there's some gonna be some good receivers
Speaker 9: and be nice to have awesome uh immunion to get
Speaker 9: that pick again for the top one. So I'll let
Speaker 9: you go and that thanks guys.
Speaker 2: Thanks Sean. So we've got a bunch of emails about
Speaker 2: this because everybody is watching I'm sure the college football
Speaker 2: playoff games yesterday. David and Madrid, who is a regular listener,
Speaker 2: asked about this as well.
Speaker 3: When if I just say to his first point real quick, YEP,
Speaker 3: that is another value of Joe Milton playing, you find
Speaker 3: out if you need a backup quarterback this offseason. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like with Cole strains, check another box before the offseason starts.
Speaker 2: Agreed, I'm for Joe Milton getting some time in this game. Uh,
Speaker 2: David here says, you know, so we do have a
Speaker 2: little bit of draft news.
Speaker 3: Okay, Jalen Milroe has officially declared. Oh geez, so there's
Speaker 3: another quarterback on the board. I might have gone back
Speaker 3: if I were him after that game this week. But
Speaker 3: Evan wanted Alabama in the playoffs, so maybe he feels differently, but.
Speaker 2: I still feel the same way. I still would have
Speaker 2: taken Alabama. They got a house by Michigan. Michigan.
Speaker 3: They didn't call home up Vanderbilt. They didn't care about
Speaker 3: the game, cared enough to play everybody.
Speaker 2: Michigan didn't. Michigan played their backups. They weren't trying.
Speaker 3: Jayle should have been trying to be going to the draft.
Speaker 2: Just to just just to poke them, just to poke them.
Speaker 2: So David and Madrid at calling in about the twenty
Speaker 2: twenty seven draft as well, which is just I love
Speaker 2: that our listeners are play ball with us on these
Speaker 2: things and we actually talk about three drafts, from which
Speaker 2: is is great.
Speaker 3: You know as much as anybody, how giddy Patriots fans
Speaker 3: get about elite wide receiver prospects. There was a need
Speaker 3: for a quarterback last year. There were three franchise quarterbacks
Speaker 3: on the board, and you still had a large segment
Speaker 3: of the fan base. They just want that receiver already
Speaker 3: because it's been twenty or however long. Ranny Rady Moss
Speaker 3: was right by the way twenty years. Marvin Harrison Bill
Speaker 3: this generational. I'm not saying that was incorrect. Jeremiah Smith's
Speaker 3: already better than you.
Speaker 2: Okay, So if for those that don't know, because some
Speaker 2: people aren't paying a twenty to the twenty twenty seven draft,
Speaker 2: I don't think those people are watching the show. Jeremiah
Speaker 2: Smith on Ohio State, who's a true freshman nineteen year
Speaker 2: old from Miami area somehow got out of the state
Speaker 2: of Florida and went up to Ohio State. It's Ohio State,
Speaker 2: Bryan Hartline and Jeremiah Smith. I was trying to I
Speaker 2: looked this up actually last night, trying to rack my brain.
Speaker 2: Jeremiah Smith, I don't think it's hyperbole to say is
Speaker 2: the best true freshman receiver that's ever lived.
Speaker 3: He is the I'm trying to find who the first
Speaker 3: too were. Jeremiah Smith is the third highest ranked recruit
Speaker 3: in the history of twenty four to seven. And I
Speaker 3: can't remember who the other two players are. I know
Speaker 3: one of them is like on track to be an
Speaker 3: NFL All of Famer and the other barely made it
Speaker 3: in the NFL.
Speaker 2: But he is rare, rare.
Speaker 3: Remember last year he was saying Harrison was rare and
Speaker 3: I was knocking it down. Everybody's saying these other guys.
Speaker 3: I don't like to use generational Jeremiah Smith is why
Speaker 3: because I need a proper way to talk about Jeremiah Smith.
Speaker 3: Jeremiah Smith is different. If Jeremiah Smith was in the
Speaker 3: NFL two day Evan at eighteen years old, he'd be
Speaker 3: a top ten receiver.
Speaker 2: He would already be the best receiver on Patriots by
Speaker 2: a country mile.
Speaker 3: In the NFL today, how many receivers are there better
Speaker 3: than eighteen year old version Jeremiah Smith.
Speaker 2: I think he's probably a top fifteen receiver.
Speaker 3: So the way he was described to me by somebody
Speaker 3: before the season started, because I'm looking at these things, Wow,
Speaker 3: who's this recruit? Ohio State cut. The way he was
Speaker 3: described to me was, you know how everybody drooled about
Speaker 3: Marvin Harrison Junior. Imagine if Harrison Junior was a slightly
Speaker 3: better route runner and ran a four four forty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's been a lot of a lot of
Speaker 2: Julio comparisons because they have similar measurables like six three
Speaker 2: two fifteen. Also, let's just throw it out there, it's
Speaker 2: insane that Jeremiah Smith at nineteen years old is six
Speaker 2: three two fifteen. Like, that's absolutely stupid and absurd. I
Speaker 2: don't know what he was fed as a child, but
Speaker 2: it certainly wasn't the same food I was eating. I
Speaker 2: would also just say that I don't I correct me.
Speaker 3: He is the highest rated recruit since twenty for twenty
Speaker 3: four to seven, So he wasn't the second and highest
Speaker 3: overall was a couple guys ahead of them.
Speaker 2: But I looked at some of the other really great
Speaker 2: true freshman seasons of yesteryear. The thing is is that
Speaker 2: as you would, you know, could attest to, yeah, true
Speaker 2: freshmen didn't play like they do now, right, Like you know,
Speaker 2: they weren't giving the opportunities. So like even like true
Speaker 2: freshman Julio Jones didn't play a ton right out of
Speaker 2: the gate at Alabama. Right, so those stats like Chris
Speaker 2: Carter had like the freshman record for like the longest time,
Speaker 2: it was like five hundred yards. Yeah, right, So this
Speaker 2: it's changed, The landscape has changed about playing these guys
Speaker 2: as early as they are. You know, Saban historically never
Speaker 2: played freshman. Even Julio Jones had to earn playing time
Speaker 2: and Saban's system, So it's not apples to apples, is
Speaker 2: my point, comparing him to guys like that. Jamar Chase's
Speaker 2: breakout season was his sophomore season, so he wasn't a
Speaker 2: breakout freshman. It's pretty hard to find a breakout true
Speaker 2: freshman on the level of Jeremiah Smith. You were teasing
Speaker 2: me earlier. He's perfect. He's he's literally perfect. He's six
Speaker 2: foot three something, two hundred and fifteen pounds, four to
Speaker 2: four or below. I think he might be in the
Speaker 2: fourth sie so well. He was running. He ran a
Speaker 2: four to four in high school last year. Fantastic fastle
Speaker 2: he wins at the catch point, his release, he can stack,
Speaker 2: he can release off the line of scrimmage against press
Speaker 2: man coverage. He's fantastic. He's unbelievable. Like I now do
Speaker 2: I think you can plan ahead to the twenty twenty
Speaker 2: seven draft to put yourself in a position to the
Speaker 2: draft if you start trading down first round picks. Maybe,
Speaker 2: I guess and theory, I don't know, that's some that's
Speaker 2: some balls to like look that far ahead with your
Speaker 2: job security where it's at right now for the people
Speaker 2: in this building, but like in general, yeah, I mean, look,
Speaker 2: he's he's the person that he reminds me of. He's
Speaker 2: a little bigger than Jamar, but he moves a lot
Speaker 2: to me like Jamar Chase, but is definitely more in
Speaker 2: like the longer build. I like Jamar Chase. I want
Speaker 2: to day is like six one six two. So Jeremiah
Speaker 2: Smith a little bit bigger, but when I watch him
Speaker 2: on film, he moves in and wins a lot.
Speaker 3: I'm on the Julio tray, I really am.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can see that. I'm yeah. The other thing
Speaker 2: is he's he is. I just have a tough time,
Speaker 2: and I mean his great as tomorrow is I have
Speaker 2: such a tough time comparing guys to Julio.
Speaker 3: On top of everything you just said, the one thing
Speaker 3: that stands out to me watching him. His hands are
Speaker 3: so big and so strong, it allows him to make
Speaker 3: some absurd catches. You want the list of guys who
Speaker 3: are higher rated recruits than Jeremiah Smith ever since two thousand,
Speaker 3: So the highest rated high school recruit of all time
Speaker 3: is Davian Clowney. Yeah, he freak Cyrus Kwan Joe. He
Speaker 3: was a bust at Alabama. He got hurt a bunch,
Speaker 3: Trevor Lawrence, Justin Fields, Brian Berzy, Bryce Young, Walker Little,
Speaker 3: that's it.
Speaker 2: Those are some interesting ones.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's tied with Fournette.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's incredible. I said the thing about to Florida.
Speaker 2: How that guy he grew up in Miami. Yeah, get
Speaker 2: out of the state of Florida. One nil two.
Speaker 3: Ohio State has this poll where if you're an elite
Speaker 3: receiver and you want to maximize we do you go play.
Speaker 2: For Brian Highy. He's the only recruit so high.
Speaker 3: He's the only recruit twenty four to seven, only wide
Speaker 3: receiver recruit that's ever gotten six stars. So Doriel Beckham,
Speaker 3: Doyl Green. Beckham was just below, Julio Jones was just below.
Speaker 2: But he's he's fantastic. I mean, I he's fantastic. I
Speaker 2: have one more thought on it, but I want to
Speaker 2: say it. No, what is it? No? No, no, I
Speaker 2: want to say it.
Speaker 3: Are we gonna get like in this show or for
Speaker 3: twenty twenty?
Speaker 2: No, No, in this show. It's just relevant to something else,
Speaker 2: all right, Jesse? Is he in the car? Or is
Speaker 2: he in Carolina? He's in the car. Jesse's in the car.
Speaker 2: What's up? Jesse was in the car.
Speaker 5: I've been listening for a while, so now here awesome,
Speaker 5: Thank you. One thing that I wanted to point out, Evan,
Speaker 5: that I don't know that you're fully taking into account.
Speaker 5: So it's gonna kind of support Alex's point of view.
Speaker 5: But on these NFL execs, we're looking at the QB
Speaker 5: class in.
Speaker 8: Two year increments, two cycles increments. So what is ahead
Speaker 8: if you're one of these QB and needy teams Garrett Nussmeyer,
Speaker 8: Drew Aller and John Matteir Right, I think some of
Speaker 8: those teams are gonna get jumpy looking ahead, like you
Speaker 8: can't go to twenty twenty seven as we're talking about
Speaker 8: it for arch Manning, So I think there will be
Speaker 8: a desire to get their most highly ranked, whether it's
Speaker 8: ward for shador standers to move up for those picks,
Speaker 8: because looking ahead, there's not like it's the class of
Speaker 8: twenty twenty four where you see guys who are talented
Speaker 8: and you could possibly wait. If you need your quarterback now,
Speaker 8: you better get him now because he might not be
Speaker 8: there next year. Question for you guys talking about trading
Speaker 8: back into the first round if you trade down, thoughts
Speaker 8: on Tyler Warren as a rock solid difference maker as.
Speaker 10: A pass catcher.
Speaker 2: Good cause we real quick on the quarterback line.
Speaker 3: So arch Manning is eligible next year, Yeah, assuming yours
Speaker 3: goes to school, he'll start. But he's right after arch
Speaker 3: Manning the projection right now, And Drew Aller's a wild
Speaker 3: card here. I think Dre Allen might come out this
Speaker 3: year after arch Manning next year's quarterback class. So I
Speaker 3: said before like everybody's treating this year like it's twenty
Speaker 3: twenty two, when it's not. If arch Manning doesn't come
Speaker 3: out as junior, next year's class looks like twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3: If you want a quarterback, get him now because you're
Speaker 3: probably not gonna have a job then that twenty twenty
Speaker 3: seven class rules. That's like, you know how much I
Speaker 3: love DJ Loway and those guys, are you still gonna
Speaker 3: have a job if you wait that long?
Speaker 2: Okay? So here's my take on the quarterbacks. And this
Speaker 2: is just like a big picture take that I have. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I wonder if there's gonna be more teams that are
Speaker 2: going to look at the Seattle Seahawks with Gino Smith,
Speaker 2: the Tampa Bay Buccaneers with Baker Mayfield, the Minnesota Vikings
Speaker 2: with Sam Darnold, and they're going to say even like
Speaker 2: to a lesser extent, but I still think it applies
Speaker 2: the Detroit Lions with Jared Goff and are there gonna
Speaker 2: look at it and say we could do something like
Speaker 2: that instead of over rafting or trading a haul and
Speaker 2: over drafting YadA, YadA, YadA. I just wonder if those
Speaker 2: success stories change it all how the landscape is viewed
Speaker 2: for like quote unquote bus in the first round, and
Speaker 2: how does that impact this whole market? Like let's say,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't have a great example I guess
Speaker 2: off the top of my head of like who would
Speaker 2: move in this in that type of scenario, But I
Speaker 2: just would I would look at Donald in particular as
Speaker 2: like a free agent, they obviously drafted JJ in the
Speaker 2: first round. Like it's probably gonna be JJ McCarthy's team
Speaker 2: at some point unless Donald like wins an MVP next
Speaker 2: year or something like that. So what you know, what
Speaker 2: team are the Giants for example, with Brian Dable, who
Speaker 2: they know it does well with quarterbacks? Like would they
Speaker 2: just pay Donald like a bridgy franchise quarterback deal instead
Speaker 2: and then buy themselves some time to draft.
Speaker 3: Donald's an interesting one. I think one of these quarterback
Speaker 3: teams will end up with Donald McCarthy. By the way,
Speaker 3: if Viking should trade JJ McCarthy, that's how I feel,
Speaker 3: maybe a surprise. But for every Geno Smith, how many
Speaker 3: times are you gonna get Kirk Cousins or Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 3: But the difference be Derek Carr Russell Wilson.
Speaker 2: The difference between all those examples, though, is their age obviously, right,
Speaker 2: Like I'm talking about Derek Carr. Derek Carr is still
Speaker 2: older than like Baker was. Like Gino is a good
Speaker 2: comp for those guys, I suppose, but like the Donald
Speaker 2: Baker comp is darnold contract, So Donald is legit. Donald.
Speaker 2: The Jets quit on too, early.
Speaker 3: I think although that that situation in Minnesota is fantastic.
Speaker 3: Who's okay, so that's one team, Who's next.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm looking at it because I'm trying to
Speaker 2: figure out like to make my take hold, I have
Speaker 2: to find right have my point.
Speaker 3: I don't think that that maybe works for one team.
Speaker 3: There's five or six quarterback needy teams and that's just
Speaker 3: at the top of the draft. You also have to
Speaker 3: consider the Seahawks may want a quarterback, the Steelers may
Speaker 3: want a quarterback. Teams like die. So now, if you
Speaker 3: want to go there enough, if you want to like
Speaker 3: the group of guys you're talking about here, Evan, are
Speaker 3: the twenty twenty one class. You're talking about Mac Jones,
Speaker 3: you're talking about Justin Fields, you're talking about Zach Wilson.
Speaker 3: That's what you're talking about. Are you really gonna risk put?
Speaker 3: Would you rather go that route, especially some of these
Speaker 3: teams that don't have the talent that the Detroit Lions do.
Speaker 3: And the other thing is, and we know this all
Speaker 3: too well because of what just happened here in New England.
Speaker 3: You signed Sam Darnold. That changes the football team you
Speaker 3: draft sder Sanders in the top five. You draft cam
Speaker 3: Ward in the top five, that changes the organization, That
Speaker 3: changes the franchise. You're not gonna get the buzz. Maybe
Speaker 3: Donald again, but who's that next guy? Who really is
Speaker 3: the next veteran name. I just you're not gonna get
Speaker 3: the organizational pop signing a veteran that you do. And
Speaker 3: the if you have a high pick, if you're scheduled
Speaker 3: to pick in the top five to sixty seven, as
Speaker 3: we talked about last year, the owner is an involved
Speaker 3: to an extent at that point, and you now have
Speaker 3: to sell the owner on well, look at what all
Speaker 3: these teams last year with their rookie quarterbacks did.
Speaker 2: Okay, but you could also say look at look at
Speaker 2: the Vikings, like the Vikings are going to potentially be
Speaker 2: the number one seed in the playoff.
Speaker 3: But that was a slow burn, that was not I just.
Speaker 2: Look at it, and I think you didn't have people.
Speaker 3: Line to buy Sam Donald Jerseys.
Speaker 2: I know, but we have a fifty to fifty hit
Speaker 2: rate with these quarterbacks in the first round. For every
Speaker 2: for every Jaden Daniels and Drake May and Bo Nicks,
Speaker 2: there is a you know we know all of them
Speaker 2: right then, you know that there's there's a bust, right,
Speaker 2: there's a Zach Wilson, there's you know, there's a Mac Jones.
Speaker 2: Like this could go either way in the draft.
Speaker 3: I know your plan is to sign Zach Wilson or
Speaker 3: mac Jones instead.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, I hear you do different. That's one team one.
Speaker 2: I get it. There's a difference between. There's not like
Speaker 2: a great pivot. I would say Donald to the Giants though,
Speaker 2: to me just feels really uh doable, Like I feel
Speaker 2: like if if Dable stays, so you feel good about
Speaker 2: the development and the play calling and all that, and
Speaker 2: the offensive side of the ball. You have the league
Speaker 2: neighbors for him, like you obviously use the number two
Speaker 2: overall pick or whatever pick they end up with, four two,
Speaker 2: whatever you draft, you know, help to help him out
Speaker 2: even more. You know, maybe that's a tech McMillan team,
Speaker 2: maybe that's a tackle team. Whatever.
Speaker 3: So now the Patriots called Tennessee Titans, or the Cleveland
Speaker 3: Browns or the Las Vegas Raiders. Sure you didn't get
Speaker 3: who did not get Sam Donald?
Speaker 2: Right? But Sam Donald's and now those teams are more
Speaker 2: desperate because there's one guy off the Okay, let me
Speaker 2: give you another name, Okay, because I just to have fun.
Speaker 2: Rock Purty well does his elbow work? Assume it works.
Speaker 3: All right? Would you rarely rather have Brock Purty than
Speaker 3: Shur Sanders.
Speaker 2: Yes, you of all people would yes, because at least
Speaker 2: at least I have that Brock Party can play in
Speaker 2: the line.
Speaker 3: I saw enough of what Brock Party looks like this
Speaker 3: year without the monstars around him.
Speaker 2: On offense, he actually I thought he played better this
Speaker 2: year than he did last year. I don't think so.
Speaker 2: I think you did. I think last year he was
Speaker 2: just surrounded by freaking monstars. Like you just said, this
Speaker 2: year he actually had to elevate a little bit and
Speaker 2: actually think he played better. How many games they went? Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying they won a ton, but I actually
Speaker 2: thought that his film and his play was better.
Speaker 3: So and again, now you have to sell the owner on.
Speaker 3: You're gonna get people line up around the block for
Speaker 3: Brock Purty jerseys in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: The Raiders may be able to sell those better off
Speaker 2: with that. Like I just again, I'm just not high
Speaker 2: on the quarterback class. You're building a brand new stadium
Speaker 2: in Tennessee. Oh my god, you're building that to put
Speaker 2: put Brock Party in the middle of it. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: can as opposed to went to a super Bowl and
Speaker 2: has been pretty good. Oh so now we're giving brock
Speaker 2: Purty credit for that super Bowl because not given Brock
Speaker 2: Party the reason why I brought out up. All right,
Speaker 2: So then you know who's a free agent, Jimmy Garoppolo. No,
Speaker 2: come on. The reason why I brought up brock Party
Speaker 2: is because one, I just wanted to bring up Brock
Speaker 2: Party because I knew it would be funny. But two,
Speaker 2: you and I both know that there's a chance that
Speaker 2: Kyle Shanahan looks at brock Purty and says, you want
Speaker 2: me to pay you how much?
Speaker 3: You know, the Brock Party might be gone. That's very real,
Speaker 3: all right. I still he's not gonna move on from
Speaker 3: Brock Party this year, still has one more year in
Speaker 3: his contract.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he wants he needs that extension, and the Niners,
Speaker 2: I am not sold, are going to give him that.
Speaker 3: I think there's a real chance he ends up being
Speaker 3: a lame duck starting quarterback for them.
Speaker 2: It could happened, and he could get like a Daniel
Speaker 2: Jones type extension where it's like really a two year deal.
Speaker 2: But it's disguised as like a four year you know, uh,
Speaker 2: mega quarterback. You're if that's what NFL teams want to do,
Speaker 2: that's what they want to do. But I'm just telling
Speaker 2: you that I feel like the reclamation project thing is
Speaker 2: in right now.
Speaker 3: It is, but there are not five serious reclamation quarterbacks Tennessee, Cleveland,
Speaker 3: the Giants, the Jets aren't gonna do a reclamation They
Speaker 3: just did that, the Raiders in the Saints. If you
Speaker 3: can give me five quarterbacks more that are a better
Speaker 3: option than Shouldur Sanders, I'll agree with your take.
Speaker 2: But should Sanders can only go to one team to
Speaker 2: do the Sam Donald.
Speaker 3: They trade, So the Patriots only need one team that
Speaker 3: they're not trading the pick to three different teams.
Speaker 2: No, but they need at least two teams to be
Speaker 2: interested in the pick. They only need one. They don't
Speaker 2: they need at least two as that's not how markets work.
Speaker 3: But tea, but you're not gonna if somebody wants if
Speaker 3: somebody views Sanders a franchise quarterback, they are going to
Speaker 3: trade up, right.
Speaker 2: You think that a team that no, like let's say
Speaker 2: it's a team that's at four or three or four
Speaker 2: or five and they know that. Yeah, they want Shador Sanders,
Speaker 2: but nobody else freaking does you think that they're gonna
Speaker 2: just trade a package to the Patriots.
Speaker 3: Just because because maybe some of these teams don't want
Speaker 3: Sanders at one, but they take them at three or four.
Speaker 2: Okay, but what if that team's already had, like well.
Speaker 3: The Cleveland Browns are a fascinating wild card.
Speaker 2: Somebody needs to say, Okay, this team is picking two.
Speaker 2: Tennessee is picking second overall and as a quarterback team,
Speaker 2: and will take Shador Sanders if if the Patriots don't
Speaker 2: trade out of that pick, and that's how you create
Speaker 2: the market, right you need but you need that to exist.
Speaker 2: Like if the Titans so again, Sam Darnold, then it
Speaker 2: doesn't work.
Speaker 3: So you only need one team plus the Titans. I
Speaker 3: don't think the Titans are going the veteran route. They
Speaker 3: they have not invested in that position seriously in a
Speaker 3: long time.
Speaker 2: Except the real guys. It didn't work.
Speaker 3: It clearly didn't work, and deep weren't happy with that
Speaker 3: pick at the time that they half measured it.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's well, no, you had a chance.
Speaker 3: Talk about you, guy, Tyler Warren there, Oh yeah, I
Speaker 3: do like Tyler Warren a lot.
Speaker 2: Here's my reservation with Tyler Tyler Warren, and I hate
Speaker 2: to hold this against him, but it's kind of like
Speaker 2: the tight end thing in general. To me, building an
Speaker 2: offense around a tight end is just different than building
Speaker 2: it around receivers, and you need that tight end to
Speaker 2: be Gronk Kelsey level. Good. Well, what if to make
Speaker 2: it T Higgins DK Metcalf kind of guy. Sure, if
Speaker 2: there's multiple pieces to this. So I know you were
Speaker 2: you were big.
Speaker 3: You were talking earlier about get TK metcalfevery you know,
Speaker 3: trade for DK Metcalf and then move up into the
Speaker 3: first or hope in the second that like in Mecha
Speaker 3: Buca falls you right, Yeah, could you do that playing
Speaker 3: with Tyler Warren?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, you can trade back up for Tyler Warren.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you my issue with Tyler Warren. Okay, I
Speaker 3: think he's gonna go too early to real estately trade
Speaker 3: back up in the first round.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially well.
Speaker 3: He's listed at six six, two sixty, which is part
Speaker 3: of what makes him so impressive. Yeah, he might get
Speaker 3: to the combine and be like two forty five, So
Speaker 3: we'll see there, but he he I don't think he's
Speaker 3: go'n be a top fifteen pick. I think he's gonna
Speaker 3: be top twenty.
Speaker 2: He moves like a smaller guy, but he has the
Speaker 2: physicality of the bigger guy. Still. This isn't Travis Kelsey,
Speaker 2: who plays like a right So that's the thing.
Speaker 3: One like he can walk in for I was gonna
Speaker 3: he'll block, he'll play, he'll do the dirty work. The
Speaker 3: Travis ke This is not always a wide receiver, but
Speaker 3: he's big, so call the tight end. This is a
Speaker 3: true three down, well rounded tight end. Yeah. The other
Speaker 3: thing he is going for him copycat league. How many
Speaker 3: teams around the league you think are locking their chops
Speaker 3: looking at it and going, I'd love to get myself
Speaker 3: a brock Bowers. This is the guy.
Speaker 2: So I'm not it's not fair to brock Bowers because
Speaker 2: he's been awesome. Yeah, but it sort of speaks to
Speaker 2: my point. He just hasn't impacted that offense at all.
Speaker 2: Like he's He's put up great numbers, but the offense
Speaker 2: isn't any better. And that and that's mostly because they
Speaker 2: don't have a quarterback. Like I'm not. It's not necessarily
Speaker 2: solely a brock Bauers problem because like you could say,
Speaker 2: although to be fair, like couldn't I say the same
Speaker 2: thing about Malik. I was just about to say that
Speaker 2: you could say, they probably say something similar to Melik
Speaker 2: neighbors as well. But I just think from a coaching standpoint,
Speaker 2: if you're trying a game plan team that has a
Speaker 2: really really good tight end, I unless again, unless he's
Speaker 2: Gronk Kelsey that kind of level, I do think that
Speaker 2: it is. It's just harder to build it out from there,
Speaker 2: right most of the time, Like tight ends are eight
Speaker 2: hundred yards a year, you know. And and the thing
Speaker 2: that I worry about with Tyler Warren is like, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't think he's gonna be as bad, but like
Speaker 2: Kyle Pitt's right was supposed to like change the revolution
Speaker 2: of tight ends and everything, you know, TJ. Hockinson, who
Speaker 2: I thought was a great prospect coming out like that,
Speaker 2: this happens with tight ends. OJ Howard, Like these guys
Speaker 2: get overdrafted a little bit. But I do like the player.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to kill the player. I just I
Speaker 2: always am weary of Okay, we're going to build around
Speaker 2: a tight end, like you better hope that that's a
Speaker 2: generational tight end. You better hope that guy's really good.
Speaker 2: All right, Tie in North Carolina is on the line.
Speaker 2: What's up? Tie?
Speaker 10: Hey?
Speaker 6: What's up?
Speaker 4: Guys?
Speaker 11: Wanted the change tracks real quick from draft talking talk
Speaker 11: a little bit about coach Mayo. One thing I haven't
Speaker 11: really heard too much talked about is just the fact
Speaker 11: that he knew that he was going to be the
Speaker 11: Patriots ed coach. I know he took over a year
Speaker 11: before he was expected to, but he knew that he
Speaker 11: was going to be taken over for Bill and for
Speaker 11: this year to look the way that it has has
Speaker 11: just been really disappointing. And I think that there's just
Speaker 11: way too momentum involved with hiring a coach variable in
Speaker 11: the offseason and using that to bring in free against
Speaker 11: and then also work the draft, trade back, get as
Speaker 11: many assets and and build forward. I just want to
Speaker 11: get your guys thoughts on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, TDD, thanks for the call. I would say the
Speaker 2: biggest criticism beyond the micro level stuff that we can pick,
Speaker 2: you know, the scheme and all that messaging and uh,
Speaker 2: the biggest criticism that I have with Gerrodmeo uh so
Speaker 2: far has been that I don't think that he was
Speaker 2: at all prepared to build a staff when he got hired.
Speaker 2: And when you look at a lot of these other
Speaker 2: coaches around the league, when they get the job, they
Speaker 2: know who their OC is going to be, they know
Speaker 2: who their DC is going to be, and it almost
Speaker 2: is coming as a package. Like part of the interview
Speaker 2: is who are going to be your high level assistant?
Speaker 3: You'd lay out, this is who I'm bringing with.
Speaker 2: Right, and so you know a couple of examples, Raheem
Speaker 2: Morris in Atlanta. Raheem Morris knew that Zach Robinson was
Speaker 2: coming with him from LA Right, he knew Zach Robinson
Speaker 2: is my OC pick, He's my guy. Jim Harbaugh came
Speaker 2: with two coordinators that have all sorts of ties to
Speaker 2: the Harbas right, Greg Roman and Jesse Minter who was
Speaker 2: at Michigan with him. He had his coordinators locked and
Speaker 2: ready to go. Part of that is because Girod's only
Speaker 2: worked for one organization and there wasn't an obvious OC
Speaker 2: unless they kept O'Brien like, there wasn't an obvious OC
Speaker 2: for him to go after within the walls. But it
Speaker 2: just that would be my one criticism. I think the
Speaker 2: one really strong pitch other than the obvious of the
Speaker 2: experience that he has. The strong pitch for Rabel and
Speaker 2: going that direction is that my guess is that Rabel
Speaker 2: has spent the last year poking around to see who
Speaker 2: he would come with him to his next stop. So
Speaker 2: he's gonna come probably turnkey, like he's going to have. Yeah,
Speaker 2: head coach is going to be him. I would actually
Speaker 2: even say that there's a chance that he already has
Speaker 2: a personnel guy that he would favor offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator,
Speaker 2: special teams coordinator, probably some high level assistants that are
Speaker 2: already on his radar as well. That's very appealing. It's
Speaker 2: very appealing to have that turnkey situation. And this never
Speaker 2: felt like this. They interviewed like fifteen offensive coordinator candidates
Speaker 2: and settled on Alex van Pelt. DeMarcus Comington was an
Speaker 2: internal promotion, obviously, but that one even felt like he
Speaker 2: was maybe a year or two early to get that
Speaker 2: kind of job. It just didn't feel like the staff
Speaker 2: was in great shape from the jump. So, yeah, it
Speaker 2: is appealing. You can't deny that it's appealing to just
Speaker 2: go out there and get a guy like Rabel who
Speaker 2: you know is going to be a turnkey staff and
Speaker 2: that's a decision they are gonna have to make.
Speaker 3: Well, that's why I've had this take, like, if they
Speaker 3: are going to move on from Drod Mayo, right, I've
Speaker 3: seen people say you need an offensive coach or Drake
Speaker 3: may more than offensive versus defensive. I just want a
Speaker 3: guy with previous experience.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I don't think replacing a rookie head coach with another
Speaker 3: rookie head coach solves the problems you're trying to solve it. Like,
Speaker 3: I'm kind of out on Ben Johnson because we know
Speaker 3: he can design an offense and we know he can
Speaker 3: be great in that regard and all that, But can
Speaker 3: he command a locker room? Can he do the game
Speaker 3: planning element of it? Can he handle the pressers and
Speaker 3: things like that? I think experience If they are moving
Speaker 3: on from Ao, what should the next guy have? Issue
Speaker 3: Number one? From his experience, you figure it out on
Speaker 3: either side of the ball. After that, with coordinators and
Speaker 3: the fact Vrabel might come with Josh McDaniels, who's not
Speaker 3: a flight risk, is certainly in a unique intriguing trait.
Speaker 3: We talked about this last year, But yeah, I experience
Speaker 3: should be the number one concern if they are going
Speaker 3: to add a new head coach above all else experience.
Speaker 2: And I've come I think this is, you know, doing
Speaker 2: side of the street. I've come around to the whole
Speaker 2: idea of like, you know, culture building and building a
Speaker 2: football program. Like I feel and maybe it's just because
Speaker 2: Jim Harbaugh was just here, Yeah, but it feels as though,
Speaker 2: you know that has become even more important in a
Speaker 2: lot of cases than he calls offensive place.
Speaker 3: Well, look, your point about that is, well, you want
Speaker 3: an offensive coach because him and the quarterback can grow
Speaker 3: together and all that. But if you have a head coach,
Speaker 3: and this is where Dan Campbell comes in, This is
Speaker 3: where Dan Campbell's really gonna get put to Dan Campbell's
Speaker 3: are well, this is where he'll get put to the
Speaker 3: test this offseason. A big part of the reason Dan
Speaker 3: Campbell is good is Ben Johnson and Aaron Glenn are
Speaker 3: amazing at what they do. Doesn't mean they'll be good
Speaker 3: head coaches, but what they do they're amazing at. They're
Speaker 3: both probably gonna leave this offseason. Does Dan Campbell have
Speaker 3: a pipeline in place? For get developing players, can you
Speaker 3: develop coaches? That's part of the reason it worked here
Speaker 3: for so long there was always the next guy up.
Speaker 3: And realistically, if your offensive coordinator moves on right and
Speaker 3: you replace with the quarterbacks coach, are you replacing with
Speaker 3: the tight ends coach, you replacement with the passing and coordinator.
Speaker 3: The guys in your pipeline are not going to run
Speaker 3: a wildly different offense. So as long as you can
Speaker 3: keep a pipeline and continue hiring from within, the concept
Speaker 3: of your offensive coordinator moving on every two or three
Speaker 3: years really isn't as scary as it otherwise would be.
Speaker 2: So especially if your quarterback gets to the point where he's.
Speaker 3: Right and four or five years in if becomes irrelevant.
Speaker 2: So, you know, Josh Allen, like they they kind of
Speaker 2: screwed up with Mercy, but he's so good that he
Speaker 2: just kind of persevered through it, and they got it
Speaker 2: right with Joe Brady, so it ended up not mattering.
Speaker 3: So for me, it's it's like, if your coach can
Speaker 3: develop coaches, yeah, it doesn't really matter what side of
Speaker 3: the ball he's on, and I trust for able to
Speaker 3: be able to do that.
Speaker 2: There's a couple of guys in the UH in the
Speaker 2: Lions staff who was the tight Ends coach that interviewed
Speaker 2: around last year for OC jobs, if interviewed here, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it'd be interesting to see, uh if if those guys
Speaker 2: can can coach, like and it's that thing you have
Speaker 2: an agreement.
Speaker 3: It's like I you know, I developed you, I worked
Speaker 3: with you, so you just have to leave me one
Speaker 3: or two guys when you take your new job. So
Speaker 3: that uh Steve Hyden, No, yeah, that's their tight Ends.
Speaker 3: It was Steve Hyden.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I think it was somebody else. I'm thinking
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 3: You were thinking of em Tanner Engstrid, Yeah, that he
Speaker 3: is their pass games.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was the tight Ends coach a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago. But he's the guy that that seems to be.
Speaker 3: You just you just keep that pipeline stocked and it's
Speaker 3: gonna matter a lot less than you thought.
Speaker 2: Yep, all right, Mark is in Connecticut. What's that Mark?
Speaker 6: Hey, guys, just said two quick things for you. First
Speaker 6: of all, happy New year, guys, And first questions for Alex, So, Alex,
Speaker 6: I'm not understanding what Gaine now. NBC Sports Squasson talked
Speaker 6: about it a lot. What gain do you have by
Speaker 6: putting Drake mate out there? Other than getting him a
Speaker 6: little more experienced. I mean, he's already hurt. You know,
Speaker 6: you're really just you're throwing him out there to accomplish
Speaker 6: what I mean. The Buffalo Bills are going to have
Speaker 6: their backups out there, most of them. I mean, Josh
Speaker 6: Allen's gonna come out for a series maybe and then
Speaker 6: that's right.
Speaker 3: So why can't he do the same thing as Josh Allen?
Speaker 3: That's my whole point. Come out, hand it off a
Speaker 3: couple times. He's your franchise quarterback. Franchise quarterback, start games.
Speaker 6: If he gets hurt and then he can't start the
Speaker 6: next season, that's that's more.
Speaker 7: Of the thing.
Speaker 3: What if Josh Allen gets hurt, do you disagree with
Speaker 3: the Bills starting Josh Allen?
Speaker 2: Josh Allen's going to turn around and hand the ball.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. Why can't Drake May do that?
Speaker 11: Well?
Speaker 6: Then yeah, yeah, ok, I guess you can.
Speaker 3: Right. That's that's all I'm not saying, Start Drake May
Speaker 3: and have him dropped back fifty times. I'm saying, franchise,
Speaker 3: this is what franchise quarterbacks do. He wants to be
Speaker 3: viewed on that same level you as an organization want
Speaker 3: and viewed on that same level. Let him go out there,
Speaker 3: hand off a couple of times and take him out
Speaker 3: because that's what star quarterbacks do in this league, and
Speaker 3: you're trying to turn him into a star.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, And then the second thing was for Evan. I'm
Speaker 6: just very disappointed in Gerard Mayo, his communication all year
Speaker 6: with the media. I mean just his just in game
Speaker 6: decisions have just it hasn't gotten better at all throughout
Speaker 6: the year, and you should see progress and you haven't. Now.
Speaker 6: I think Mike Rabel is the answer in everybody else
Speaker 6: has been calling up talking about it as well. When
Speaker 6: he can bring a staff in and we can get
Speaker 6: this rebuild rocking and rolling. I think a lot fast
Speaker 6: or sticking with you, Mayo, but I don't think that
Speaker 6: the Crafts have the you know, the balls to do it,
Speaker 6: because I think it'll look bad on them after one
Speaker 6: year firing to Rod.
Speaker 2: Mayo, Yeah, Mark, thanks for the call. I go back
Speaker 2: and forth on that about whether it would look bad.
Speaker 2: I think in a lot of ways it could look bad,
Speaker 2: and you could certainly spin it that way if you
Speaker 2: wanted to. I also think a lot of people will
Speaker 2: spin it sunk cost fallacy right, like you, you made a.
Speaker 3: Mistake, admitted they made a mistake, they moved on, right,
Speaker 3: and then I mean it becomes about who they hire next.
Speaker 2: But I feel like it's almost to me and this
Speaker 2: is like just to be company man. But like I
Speaker 2: honestly think that that would be commendable. Like I think
Speaker 2: that that would be good, Like if they really truly
Speaker 2: felt and they have all the information and we don't.
Speaker 2: So if they truly really felt that this was a
Speaker 2: mistake and he wasn't ready for it and it was
Speaker 2: a mistake, then admitting the mistake and not wasting another
Speaker 2: year of Drake May's clock, of the whole organization's time,
Speaker 2: you know, all of our times, not wasting another year.
Speaker 2: I honestly think that that would be spun as a
Speaker 2: positive in a lot of ways. Okay, you made a mistake.
Speaker 2: Now the difference is, and I know a lot of
Speaker 2: people have said the thing about Rabel. I'm on board
Speaker 2: with Rabel. I think we all are to an extent
Speaker 2: if that's the way that this goes. But the other
Speaker 2: side of this is part of this will be league
Speaker 2: manadated with a Rooney rule. But you absolutely have to
Speaker 2: have a legitimate hiring process. You got to go through
Speaker 2: the process. You can't this time around. You can't just
Speaker 2: hand the job to Rabel, as good as he is
Speaker 2: and as much as I think he would be the
Speaker 2: right hire. Now, is it ceremonial? Is it just going
Speaker 2: through the motions? Maybe? But you look at the team
Speaker 2: like the Chargers. The Chargers interviewed like ten or fifteen
Speaker 2: guys for their head coaching job. You have to go
Speaker 2: through a legitimate interview process. And if you end up
Speaker 2: on Mike Vrabel at the end of that process, then great.
Speaker 2: But you can't just do another situation where this is
Speaker 2: like a handshake deal under the table and we're just
Speaker 2: handing you the job. It's gonna have to be a
Speaker 2: legitimate interview process. All right, DeShawn is in West Virginia.
Speaker 2: What's up to Seawan?
Speaker 10: As few as actually Virginia?
Speaker 2: Oh okay, regular Virginia.
Speaker 10: Yes, two things. You know, for instance, like with the draft,
Speaker 10: you know what I call it? That called about quarterbacks
Speaker 10: since not being available. He basically deliverify my point and
Speaker 10: I mentioned I believe I mentioned before on Pature's Unfiltered
Speaker 10: about other guys jobs being like on the hot seat
Speaker 10: as much as y'all you guys talk about the jobs,
Speaker 10: a few jobs here in New England being on the
Speaker 10: hot seat, you don't think that's the same thing, the
Speaker 10: same woe be the same problem in the other place
Speaker 10: or whatever. That's why I believe that they will be
Speaker 10: anty go ahead and try to call up for the
Speaker 10: number one pick, you know, to try to get that quarterback,
Speaker 10: knowing the fact that the fativable feature may not hold,
Speaker 10: you know, to be true as much as they wanted
Speaker 10: to be. Now, when it comes to Mike Bravery the situation,
Speaker 10: I believe he get him. He brings stability to the situation.
Speaker 10: He can coach. And also if people talk blame him
Speaker 10: for the destruction of Tennessee or whatever, people seven forget
Speaker 10: that it was that GM. I believe he comes here,
Speaker 10: he had more power and he'd be able to get
Speaker 10: the gods that he want to get. What the gods
Speaker 10: you want to keep. That's all I have to say.
Speaker 2: Thanks to Sean, thanks for the call. Yeah, look, I
Speaker 2: get it. I get why everybody wants changes.
Speaker 3: And I would not bring John Robinson with Mike Frabel that.
Speaker 2: I sent you, Yeah, I sent you a text about this.
Speaker 2: But Ryan Cowden in the New York Giants organization. Now,
Speaker 2: who was the number two to John Robinson for a
Speaker 2: long time in Tennessee. It sounds like there is a
Speaker 2: connection there between Rabel. Now, the last thing I want
Speaker 2: to say about this, and you know it's a touchy subject.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie to you, But the last thing
Speaker 2: I want to say to you about about this is
Speaker 2: there a world because I'm starting to think there might be.
Speaker 2: Is there a world where it's just a rodd and
Speaker 2: maybe Covington also, But Rabel comes with Elliott Wolf and
Speaker 2: keeps Alex van Pelt and they go that direction because
Speaker 2: I look at it, and raybol just came from Cleveland. Yeah,
Speaker 2: just spent the year with Kevin Stefanski and Cleveland. And
Speaker 2: some of the reporting out of Cleveland at the time
Speaker 2: was that firing Van Pelt was a little bit of
Speaker 2: a head scratcher for everybody there. Yeah, he just came
Speaker 2: from Cleveland. His two coordinators in Tennessee were Lafleur and
Speaker 2: Arthur Smith, who are both West Coast offense Shanahan decightful
Speaker 2: type coaches and I wonder, you know, I know Josh
Speaker 2: is popular. Tommy Reese is another name that's been floated around,
Speaker 2: and I know you hate, but I just wonder, like,
Speaker 2: if he's gonna run a West Coast offense anyways, right,
Speaker 2: and it's gonna be that sort of flavor anyways.
Speaker 3: Well, and then on top of that, you think Stefanski's.
Speaker 2: Job is safe. He's a really good coach. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Does Stefanski come in as essentially what my blanking on
Speaker 3: his name?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Does Defanski come in as along with Ben McAdoo to
Speaker 3: replace Ben McAdoo as kind of that offensive consultant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's possible. It's possible. I just wonder. I'm beginning
Speaker 2: to know the situation is. I look, the McDaniels thing
Speaker 2: is always there. Yeah, I'm not saying it's not, and
Speaker 2: it has its advantages. I don't know that.
Speaker 3: I honestly don't know that between McDaniels in between Van Pelt,
Speaker 3: I don't know that one's definitively better than the other.
Speaker 3: They're very different. They both have pros and cons. But
Speaker 3: there is certainly a through line with Elliott Wolf Mike
Speaker 3: Rabel to Alex van Pelt. And then if I can
Speaker 3: add one more to you there, Wes Welker.
Speaker 2: So, Wes Welker is the name that I've thought of,
Speaker 2: maybe Rabel being able to bring in the coach receivers.
Speaker 2: There's also the current offensive coordinator for the Green Bay
Speaker 2: Packers is on the coaching track to be promoted somewhere.
Speaker 2: And I don't know pell Well right, but I'm talking
Speaker 2: about if they're not, Oh, just another name to know.
Speaker 2: I don't know Rabel is necessarily part of that. But
Speaker 2: if the Patriots decide even to keep Gerrod and move
Speaker 2: on from Adam Stenovich, yes, Adam Stenovich basically runs Green
Speaker 2: Bay's run game.
Speaker 3: He is the run game coordinator before he was the.
Speaker 2: So he is Alex van Pelt in Cleveland. He is
Speaker 2: not calling plays for the Green Bay Packers, but he
Speaker 2: is a little bit more. Now.
Speaker 3: If you're gonna do that, though, you got to get
Speaker 3: a you got to get somebody with experience in that role.
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily disagree with you, but at least according
Speaker 2: to Lafloor and I think that you know, part of
Speaker 2: it is lafor Is trying to gasp up his guy
Speaker 2: to get him interviews and stuff like that. But Lafora
Speaker 2: has said that this guy deserves to be a at
Speaker 2: least a play caller somewhere, and he also has said
Speaker 2: that he basically calls the run game, so they when
Speaker 2: they know he's gonna they're gonna run the ball. He's
Speaker 2: the one that's calling the play. So I think he
Speaker 2: has done some a little bit of play calling. And
Speaker 2: he apparently is like the next thing, the next Mike McDaniel,
Speaker 2: the next Kyle Shanahan, the next Matt Before you know,
Speaker 2: he's kind of the next guy. So whether it's Elliott
Speaker 2: Wolfe's connection to Green Bay bringing him here, whether it's
Speaker 2: you know, Mike Rabel and Elliott wolf bringing him whatever,
Speaker 2: I don't know. But it's just a name to throw
Speaker 2: out there that's in this system, in this tree, in
Speaker 2: this world, last thing that I want to do before
Speaker 2: we wrap here. I do have some reason to get.
Speaker 2: I've been like a lot of what we're I want
Speaker 2: that other Jeremiah Smith take. Oh yeah, we're gonna do
Speaker 2: it right now. So I don't actually remember what I
Speaker 2: said I was gonna say. But anyways, you said you
Speaker 2: had another take on Jeremiah Smith. Okay, maybe I'll get
Speaker 2: maybe I'll remember, so I have some recency biased guys
Speaker 2: for you. Okay, not necessarily like pounding the table for
Speaker 2: either guy. There's two guys I've watched recently. One of
Speaker 2: them you're gonna hate. One of them, I'm not sure about.
Speaker 2: They both go to Ohio State. So the guy that
Speaker 2: I am swimming over a little bit now is a Meccava.
Speaker 3: That I know which one gonna hate.
Speaker 2: Meccauka from Ohio State, who to me plays a lot
Speaker 2: like Jackson Smith and jigl like they played the same
Speaker 2: role in the Ohio States offense, that z slot role. Uh,
Speaker 2: and he just is more of like a glider smooth mover,
Speaker 2: you know, bursty off the line of scrimmage, but not
Speaker 2: gonna blow you away with speed over the top. He's
Speaker 2: gonna be an inside receiver in the NFL. I just
Speaker 2: like JSN has developed a Year two for the Seahawks.
Speaker 2: I see like Buka as as your chain mover, right,
Speaker 2: Like that guy's gonna catch a hundred passes in the NFL,
Speaker 2: basically what Jalen Polk was supposed to be. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: I really, I really thought his film was was really
Speaker 2: really good. Just really smooth, doesn't fight it catches the
Speaker 2: ball really smooth. You really, he's gonna be great in
Speaker 2: the Gauntlet drill like one of those types of guys
Speaker 2: that's got great body control, great hands, catcher, transitions really
Speaker 2: quickly into yards after the catch, has quickness at the
Speaker 2: top of the route to get open and create separation.
Speaker 2: He's just not a blazer. He's just not a third
Speaker 2: level deept type of receiver. Now. He can stretch the
Speaker 2: field from the inside though. You put him, you know,
Speaker 2: as the slot guy, number two, number three in trips like.
Speaker 2: He can run the seam, he can run a deep over.
Speaker 2: He caught a touchdown pass yesterday running you know, across
Speaker 2: the field on a deep over. That those elements are there.
Speaker 2: He's just not going to win on the outside on
Speaker 2: the perimeter. But if you're building out, like kind of
Speaker 2: an offense and you're building out, you know, a receiver room.
Speaker 2: You know, if you get the outside guy in a
Speaker 2: in free agency or in the veteran market, if it's
Speaker 2: t Higgins, if it's DK Metcalf, it's whoever, if you
Speaker 2: get that guy on the outside, you know, that's what
Speaker 2: the Seahawks have going on right now. Right they have
Speaker 2: DK on the outside, they have Jason in the middle
Speaker 2: of the field. Jayson's putting up great numbers. I'm starting
Speaker 2: to really love the the idea of trading up into
Speaker 2: the back end of the first round for Buka, who
Speaker 2: I think is going to go somewhere in the twenties.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he's he's gonna move that high up.
Speaker 9: Now.
Speaker 3: I like, he can't be their only wide receiver edition, correct,
Speaker 3: but if you get a DK metcaffer T Higgins, he
Speaker 3: would be a really nice complimentary piece.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I feel really strongly about the fact that I
Speaker 2: don't think anybody in the Patriots receiver room is good
Speaker 2: enough that I care about positional overlap. Yeah. Like so, yes,
Speaker 2: technically he plays the same role as Jalen Polk. Jalen
Speaker 2: Polk didn't prove enough to me that I can.
Speaker 3: No, I'm with you one hundred percent. Yeah, I'm with
Speaker 3: you hundred percent on that.
Speaker 2: Uh, the next one you're really gonna hate. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: did watch Josh Simmons. Ye, so there's a lot of
Speaker 2: there's a lot of caveats with Josh Simmons, And this
Speaker 2: is a take that probably we're going to unpack a
Speaker 2: lot more moving forward, but just my quick thirty second
Speaker 2: take on him his film in the first five games
Speaker 2: of the season, No I'll get to it, Okay, that
Speaker 2: he played against Ohio State is was absolutely otherworldly, like
Speaker 2: left tackle number one in the draft, Like he would
Speaker 2: be the top tackle in the in the draft bar none.
Speaker 2: If he played like that the entire campbell. Yeah, if
Speaker 2: he was playing like that like yesterday in the bowl game,
Speaker 2: we wouldn't be even having a discussion. He would be
Speaker 2: number one. Crisp, explosive mover, really quick out of his stance.
Speaker 2: Mirror's guys. Plays a great balance, great leverage, arm length,
Speaker 2: checks that box more. I think he's gonna have like
Speaker 2: thirty five inch arms. Like he's a long dude. He's
Speaker 2: a freak athlete. Now the caveats he played nobody. Yep.
Speaker 2: He transferred in for one season at Ohio State from
Speaker 2: San Diego State, right, Sandy or Sandieo State, and so
Speaker 2: he played nobody there, right. And he also appeared to
Speaker 2: take a really big leap from where he was at
Speaker 2: San Diego State to where he was in the first
Speaker 2: five games again at Ohio State. So you're you're really
Speaker 2: you're drafting a guy based off of five game against
Speaker 2: like Michigan State. I think he played Iowa.
Speaker 3: Well, he started the full I think he started the
Speaker 3: full season last year at San Diego State. At Ohio State, No,
Speaker 3: I think this is his first year at Ohios was
Speaker 3: a second. Oh, then I gotta go back and watch,
Speaker 3: got to watch more.
Speaker 2: So he improved a lot. Is the point from this
Speaker 2: year to last year? So was that competition? Was he
Speaker 2: gonna keep it up? And he played a half against Oregon.
Speaker 2: He did give up a pressure and half against Oregon,
Speaker 2: but then he got hurt and then he's been out
Speaker 2: for ever since. So it's a risk. It's you're you're
Speaker 2: banking on five game sampled.
Speaker 3: Okay, what have we said about the tackle position going
Speaker 3: back to like last offseason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's no half measures, it's a it's a
Speaker 2: half measure, it's a risk, whatever you want to call it, right,
Speaker 2: it's it's a risk. Now would you feel better because
Speaker 2: the tape.
Speaker 3: And yeah he was he's a full time start Ohio States.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you need to go I gotta watch that
Speaker 2: because I from what I've heard, and I'm going off
Speaker 2: of what uh what Brennan Thorne right in his right
Speaker 2: up about him? He was nowhere. He was not this
Speaker 2: level of player.
Speaker 3: I can just give you his numbers I can't tell
Speaker 3: you off the top of my head. He allowed fifteen
Speaker 3: pressures with eight penalties last year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he got a lot better, a lot better
Speaker 2: and has made a real big leap and then didn't
Speaker 2: play the tough part of their schedule. So you're really
Speaker 2: banging on. You're getting the player that dominated against like.
Speaker 3: Jack Green, Western Michigan, Marshall, Michigan State, and Iowa.
Speaker 2: So Iowa usually has some pretty good defensive linemen.
Speaker 3: Though they allowed like free points a game this year.
Speaker 2: Okay, but they usually have pretty good defensive lines. I
Speaker 2: maybe they don't this year, but.
Speaker 3: So you're you're drafting him off twenty seven pass block
Speaker 3: snaps against Iowa.
Speaker 2: I don't disagree. It's it's a it's not it's a
Speaker 2: risky thing, but we have to talk about it. We
Speaker 2: have to talk about it. Yeah, you're right, we have
Speaker 2: to talk about it.
Speaker 3: I would say, this is you telling me I talk
Speaker 3: about it, wouldn't And it's a little bit different.
Speaker 2: Another damn is gonna get rolled? Yeah they are.
Speaker 3: Do you want to draft Dominique Easley to beat to
Speaker 3: protect Drake May?
Speaker 2: It's way different than that. So I domin easily was like.
Speaker 3: I need to see how bad the knee injury is.
Speaker 3: It hasn't been reported exactly what it was, but there
Speaker 3: because they don't have to put out injury boards. Yeah,
Speaker 3: there's some chatter that it might have been really bad.
Speaker 2: Okay, but if you have between one really catastrophic injury.
Speaker 3: And then like if you have a guy with the
Speaker 3: completely reconstructed knee, that is a ticking time bomb.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying I for other teams make sense. Certainly
Speaker 3: the Patriots couldnot afford. Let's put this way, is it
Speaker 3: worth the wrist that his knee blows up again and
Speaker 3: now you burned that pick? When there are other tackles
Speaker 3: who have similar ceilings, maybe not the same floor, but
Speaker 3: similar ceilings on the table.
Speaker 2: Are there similar ceilings? He's really good.
Speaker 3: You don't think Banks is a similar ceiling. You don't
Speaker 3: think Campbell if a similar I think Banks is definitely
Speaker 3: a safer pick. I don't think he has a similar.
Speaker 2: I want a safe picksh Simmons has like real like
Speaker 2: all pro caliber ceilings.
Speaker 3: I want to say, what about Connory? No, I want
Speaker 3: a safe pick. I don't want to do this whole
Speaker 3: thing again.
Speaker 2: Okay, where we don't know who the left tackle is
Speaker 2: week to week for three years. Let me ask you this,
Speaker 2: it's valid. Let me ask you this. Yeah, if they
Speaker 2: go out in free agency and they signed Cam Robinson
Speaker 2: or they signed Ronnie Stance.
Speaker 3: Then just make Cam Robinson your tackle and draft your
Speaker 3: future left tackle next year.
Speaker 2: Okay, but you wouldn't take Josh Simmons on Day two
Speaker 2: as like this project. You know, you know what I'm saying, Like.
Speaker 3: They can't they can't really afford to be using top
Speaker 3: one hundred picks on guys that aren't gonna play, all right,
Speaker 3: fair enough, it's just hard to not go get Caden
Speaker 3: Proctor next year. At that point, it's just hard to deny. No,
Speaker 3: he's the tape was incredible. He makes sense for he
Speaker 3: makes sense for some teams I make. This is crazy.
Speaker 3: This was if this was like five years ago, when
Speaker 3: you knew Nate Soldier was towards the end and you
Speaker 3: had talent elsewhere on the offensive line, sign me the
Speaker 3: hell up for where this team's at right now. They
Speaker 3: cannot use top one hundred picks on guys with medical
Speaker 3: flags and guys that win or guys that won't play
Speaker 3: or aren't designed to play in the upcoming season. Can't
Speaker 3: do it, can't afford to do it, Okay, I I had.
Speaker 2: That's how I feel. I bring it up.
Speaker 3: We have to know, we have to talk about it.
Speaker 3: We have to give our takes. We gave our takes
Speaker 3: on him. Although you're you're suddenly so in on a
Speaker 3: guy that played nobody, but you still won't give ash
Speaker 3: and genty the Oregon game. I find that interesting. Oregon's
Speaker 3: defense a lot better than I was defense.
Speaker 2: He's so he was. He was very impressive. I hate
Speaker 2: throwing out comps. You know that. I hate throwing up
Speaker 2: like crazy, crazy comps. But like one name that just
Speaker 2: kind of came to mind is watching him with Tyron Smith,
Speaker 2: like he's his film. He was that dominant all right
Speaker 2: against nobody, but he was that It.
Speaker 3: Would be great if they had the flexibility to take
Speaker 3: that risk. I don't think they do, especially if it's
Speaker 3: still Elliott Wolf.
Speaker 2: I hear you.
Speaker 3: I don't think they do. I have one recency bias.
Speaker 3: Matthew Golden, So I know you like guys a bond.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, he's he was impressive. I might like Golden.
Speaker 2: I thought you, I thought you were gonna say Cam's Kataboo. Well,
Speaker 2: obviously should be a patriot, but no, I liked what
Speaker 2: I saw. So Matthew Golden, maybe this is where we
Speaker 2: meet in the middle. Because last week I asked you,
Speaker 2: what does Isaiah Bond do well besides be fast?
Speaker 3: And you couldn't give me any I don't have an answer.
Speaker 3: You don't have an answer. What is Matthew Golden do well? One,
Speaker 3: He's bigger, he's built for the NFL. I think he
Speaker 3: has more positional versatility, and I think he's a better
Speaker 3: route runner. I don't know that he's a great runner,
Speaker 3: but I think he's better.
Speaker 2: His body control and uh and obviously his ability to
Speaker 2: have when above the room with his lanth, yeah, is impressive.
Speaker 3: And he's I think he can play the Z or
Speaker 3: the slot. He gives you some flexibility. He's still explosive.
Speaker 3: I don't know that his forty is going to be
Speaker 3: as good as Isaiah Bond's, but yeah, I would put
Speaker 3: him in the explosive we're talking about Marvin Mims earlier. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he was a little I have to watch him a
Speaker 3: little closer.
Speaker 2: I don't know he's quite as fast as Marvin No,
Speaker 2: but he's fast.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say he's he's like, remember we said Ted
Speaker 3: McMillan isn't slow, but he's not fast. I'll call Matthew
Speaker 3: Golden fast. Okay, Right now, he's projected to be a
Speaker 3: Day three pick. I don't think that stands. He's going
Speaker 3: to be a Day two guy. Maybe more like late
Speaker 3: set and early third. But again, shouldn't be the only
Speaker 3: pick at wide receiver. Definitely shouldn't be the only pick.
Speaker 3: But if you go out and you get a DK
Speaker 3: Metcalf to here, so let's say they can't trade up
Speaker 3: for a booka right, ye Matthew Golden, I think would
Speaker 3: be another really good answer. Yeah, you know, Matthew Golden
Speaker 3: is if he comes out, he is a true junior.
Speaker 3: I could see him waiting, so that caveato.
Speaker 2: So he's gonna be in that same category and then
Speaker 2: we gotta go. But yeah, he's gonna be in the
Speaker 2: same category. To me, Matthew Golden as like the Trey
Speaker 2: Harris is. I can't pronounce the kid from Stanford's name. Uh, shoot,
Speaker 2: I can't do. I am minor Io manner. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I am manor Uh the Miami kid.
Speaker 3: Oh, I really like Ristreppo Yeastreo I might put Rastrepo
Speaker 3: in Golden.
Speaker 2: Savion Williams, like they're all gonna be in like this
Speaker 2: day two bucket, like it's gonna be McConkie poll Ke again,
Speaker 2: I might put.
Speaker 3: I might put Rostrepo and Golden like a step ahead
Speaker 3: of guys like Ao Manor and and Trey Harris.
Speaker 2: Rostreppa reminds me a lot of Khalil Share, which is
Speaker 2: a compliment by the.
Speaker 3: I am a super lazy comp, but I have a
Speaker 3: super lazy comp. It's Ricky Piersoll. Okay, remember my whole
Speaker 3: thing last year is Ricky Piersoll plays the position angry. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Xavier strep I mean it.
Speaker 2: Kind of close your care. It's a little I guess
Speaker 2: I see a little with him. Anyways, our Streppo is
Speaker 2: also bigger. Yeah, he's a good player. He's gonna be
Speaker 2: a good player in the league. Uh. Okay, so that
Speaker 2: does it for us. Here. We're gonna go watch Georgia
Speaker 2: Notre damn here, I'm sure in a second, and uh
Speaker 2: and we're gonna have plenty of this draft talk. We
Speaker 2: got a ton of emails anymore, Thank you so much
Speaker 2: for all the emails. We didn't get to quite all
Speaker 2: of them, but I tried to bake them all into
Speaker 2: the show more months. And look, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: you guys that are emailing in that have these elaborate,
Speaker 2: like bullet point off season plans Like I would love
Speaker 2: to read those emails on the air. It's just not
Speaker 2: gonna be great radio, folks, So I apologize, but your
Speaker 2: plans are all great. Come with one tape. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 2: give us an email, give us a shout. We love
Speaker 2: hearing from you guys, but I've just got to get
Speaker 2: that there. And one last time, Easy to Do a drink,
Speaker 2: Easy to Enjoy bud By, the official beer sponsor of
Speaker 2: the New England Patriots. We will see you guys next week.
Speaker 2: Really quick note about next week, I think we're going
Speaker 2: to be moving to Wednesdays next week for the rest
Speaker 2: of the off season. So we're going to take the
Speaker 2: noon to two PU time slot on Wednesday that Patriots
Speaker 2: Unfiltered usually occupies and that's gonna be your catch twenty
Speaker 2: two time slot. So noon to two moving forward on Wednesdays.
Speaker 2: We'll make sure to tease that and plug it plenty
Speaker 2: on Twitter, so you guys know where to find us.
Speaker 2: We'll see you guys, then bye.
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