1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much for 3 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: tuning in. My name is Ben, my name is Noel Um. 4 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: And you've had spicy honey, Ben? Yes, it's pretty good. 5 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: I can put you in a kind of coffee. It 6 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: makes it like a spicy coffee, or you put it 7 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: on some some chicken, like a hot chicken kind of situation. 8 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: It's it's good stuff. You know who else is pretty good? Noel. 9 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: That's our super producer, Casey Pegrom and spicy and spicy indeed. Now, 10 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: have you ever been in a situation where a stranger 11 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: approaches you and there seems to be this instant chemistry, 12 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: this instant connection you just as they say? Click? Have 13 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: already asked me if I've ever been propositioned? I'm asking, well, 14 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: maybe it was a proposition. How'd your story turned out? 15 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: It was an indecent proposal, Ben, That's what it was. 16 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: You were in an indecent proposal situation. It was indecently 17 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: proposed to yes, and I accepted. How do it work out? 18 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: It was very indecent. I can't go into it. Here's 19 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,119 Speaker 1: the family show. It's weird. Because hopefully in this situation 20 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: that was not a proposal, was indecent for for hopefully 21 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: some family friendly reasons. You know, maybe you guys just 22 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: liked each other. You just sat around and told a 23 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: lot of really blue jokes. Okay, that makes sense. Sometimes 24 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: when people get hit upon or propositioned out of the blue, 25 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: there is an ulterior motive involved. Wait a minute, people 26 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: aren't always as they seem. Then that's true and all 27 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: today's episode is about spycraft, but maybe not in the 28 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: way you think. It turns out that one of the 29 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: most famous espionage strategies in history is seducing someone. There's 30 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: you know, have you ever seen the show Americans The Americans? 31 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,239 Speaker 1: I haven't, but I've been told that it's quite good 32 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: and that I should watch it. Well, I don't like 33 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: tell people what they should do, but I enjoyed the show. 34 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: I should get me to a television um situation right now, Casey, 35 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 1: have you seen The Americans? I have not. No, I 36 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: didn't really watch TV shows much. Do you know. It 37 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: takes a lot for me to check out a TV series. 38 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: So um, nothing against the Americans? What about Law and Order? 39 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: You ever seen that a few times? Yeah? Casey on 40 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: the case. So the trade name for this kind of 41 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 1: spycraft via seduction is the honey trap. Yep. And spies 42 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: use their sexual prowess, their charisma and you know that 43 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: thrill of living life on the edge as baitd This 44 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: is like, you know how there have been rumors bouncing 45 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: around for months, if not years, about the concept of compromat. Yes, right, 46 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 1: well what what is that? Also known as compromand I 47 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: think they're the same thing, and it's just the idea. 48 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: I mean, it's basically just blackmail material, right, It's like 49 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: when someone is compromised, um, whether you know something about 50 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: a crime they've committed, or you have, let's say, a 51 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: tape of them getting pete on um or some such 52 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 1: other nefarious behavior that would be considered compromat or compromont. 53 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,679 Speaker 1: Are they just different tenses? Why are there two different words? 54 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: That's an interesting question. I know comproima is the Russian 55 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: phrase which has been picked up by the US media 56 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: even has been making the rounds much more these days 57 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: than I've ever heard it in the past in terms 58 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: of like in the parlance of our times, to quote 59 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: the Big Lebowski. But there's a really I haven't seen 60 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: the film, but it's got a Jennifer Lawrence in and 61 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: I believe it's called Red Sparrow if I'm not mistaken, 62 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: and she plays a Russian spy that is like trained 63 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: in these sexual wiles. It's literally a school for young 64 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: women that are trained to do this very thing. It's 65 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: a huge plot point in the Americans without spoiling it, 66 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: The Americans is about sleeper agents living in the US, 67 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: And in both Red Sparrow and The Americans, there's this 68 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: method of spycraft via seduction employed called honey traps, or 69 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,600 Speaker 1: you may have heard it referred to as honey pots. 70 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: These tactics have been around for a long, long long time. 71 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: In fact, as our pal Gabe pointed out off air, 72 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: the earliest honey trap on record. Maybe this is how 73 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: old it is, it's biblical. One of the oldest ones 74 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: that we know of is the anecdotal betrayal of Sampson 75 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: by Delilah. Yeah, that's a classic story, um, And then 76 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,840 Speaker 1: what is it She like sneaks in and cuts his 77 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 1: hair wherein all of his magical strongman powers lie in 78 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: exchange for eleven hundred pieces of silver. That's right, And 79 00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: then I think he gets his head lopped off at 80 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: some point. That may be in a different story, though 81 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: Solomn is the one who has Sampson's head cut off, 82 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 1: and so whether or not there was a real Sampson 83 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: and a real Delilah and real superpower hair, we know 84 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: that this practice has continued and continues even in the 85 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: present day. Every single intelligence agency across the planet did 86 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: something like this, but it was an especially common practice 87 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: in China and in Russia. For all our US listeners, 88 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: The Central Intelligence Agency does not officially comment on whether 89 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 1: it's agents use sexuality to get info, but off the record, 90 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: some retired CIA folks say it could happen. Today. We'd 91 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: like to just present a few cases of honey traps. 92 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: This is really a situation in which the truth is 93 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: stranger than fiction. We we talked about Sampson, but let's 94 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: dive into mada Ha and really quickly. It was not 95 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: Solomon them to do with Sampson. That was John the 96 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: Baptist who she had beheaded. And in the opera Ptolemy, 97 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: she sings a really creepy aria to his severed head. Um. 98 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: So sorry, excuse me for mixing all my stories there. 99 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: Please continue, But so Mata Hari you may have heard 100 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: the phrase before. M A t a h a r I. 101 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: Mata Harry was Dutch woman who had a pretty pretty 102 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: wild life. She had spent a few years as a 103 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: dancer in Java in Indonesia. During World War One, she 104 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: was arrested because the French forces had discovered that a 105 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: German military official in Spain was sending her money. They 106 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: caught the telegrams intercepted. She was accused of passing uh 107 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: secrets to the Germans, French secrets to the Germans, um 108 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,359 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, secrets that she had potentially gotten 109 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: by um, you know, working her mojo on certain French 110 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: political officials and military officials as well. So she went 111 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: on trial and um Mada Harri defended herself quite quite vocally, 112 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: quite robustly. It was an interesting defense too, it really was. 113 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: She said that she was this attache is which is 114 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: like a staffer for a diplomat or an ambassador, that 115 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: she was his mistress and that he was just sending 116 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: her like you know, sugar daddy type gifts exactly. She said, 117 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: no spycraft, just a little bit of slee's baggery. Her 118 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: arguments did not win over the judges. She was executed 119 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: on October fifteenth, nineteen seventeen, by firing squad and a 120 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: nice little detail here, she refused to be blindfolded. She 121 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: wanted to see it coming. After the close of the war, 122 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: the French forces admitted that they didn't really have any 123 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: evidence against her. Most modern historians have concluded that she 124 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: wasn't shot because she was running a honey trap, but 125 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: she was instead executed to send a message to anyone 126 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: who might follow her example. So the lesson here is 127 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: that looking as the one is participating in a honey 128 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 1: trap is as dangerous as actually being in one. And 129 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: we have so many examples of these. A lot of 130 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 1: them occurred during wartime. Actually, a lot of the ones 131 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: we know about occurred during wartime. Because again, this stuff 132 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: is maybe still happening today. I mean, I have no 133 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: doubt that it's I mean, it's it's tales old as time. 134 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: It works, right, Like, why why would it not be happening. 135 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: I'm pretty pretty confident that our government is doing this 136 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: all the time. But who am I to say that's 137 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: not what we're here for today. Well, let's talk about 138 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: the story of Nora Estoga, who was able to seduce 139 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 1: a Nicaraguan general and then assassinate him. That's a part 140 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: of it too. We haven't even talked about the the 141 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,199 Speaker 1: ability to lure people into compromising situations, not just to 142 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 1: you know, steal secrets from them or to get comprom 143 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: mot on them, but to actually kill them. And there's 144 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: another example here and Israeli technician Mordechai Venunu, who is 145 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: most famous or infamous for whistle blowing about Israel's nuclear capabilities. 146 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: When he spilled the atomic beans in he ran away, 147 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: left the country and went to London, and there he 148 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: was seduced by a woman who led him to Israeli 149 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: intelligence assets in Rome. This is under massad, correct. Massad 150 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: is the intelligence agencies, and they they caught him. I mean, 151 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: we know honey pots can occur with a number of 152 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: ultimate goals. One to assassinate people, to uh to to 153 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: kidnap them or or you know, gain custody of them. 154 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: The third and perhaps one of the most insidious, is 155 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: to control people over time. We're talking about blackmail, like 156 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: long term, long game like that's that. Can you imagine 157 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: being that beholden to somebody else where You just couldn't 158 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: live your normal life, you had to like literally live 159 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 1: for another person or another organization at some point when 160 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: you just have to get in front of it, just 161 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: tell your spouse, Look, I messed up, But I don't 162 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: want to ruin the country think that you would think 163 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: that maybe you know, there's there are there are worse 164 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: things than being told you're cheating on your spouse, though, 165 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: and I imagine some of those triggers might be pulled 166 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: as well, like you know, threatening to kill family members. 167 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: And yeah, that's outside of what we're talking about today. 168 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: My favorite honey pot story of all time, and I 169 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: know we had talked about this off air. So there 170 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: was this Indonesian president, Ahmed Sukarno. He was the victim, 171 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: the quote unquote victim of a honey pot blackmail attempt 172 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: by the kgb U SSR. They made a videotape of 173 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: him being intimate with several Russian women disguised as flight attendants. 174 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: So this is very not safe for work in s 175 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: f W. Here's the thing though, when they came to 176 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: him and they said, you know, didn't I don't know, 177 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: we have video of you. He he was like, all right, well, 178 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: let me let me see the video. Like we do 179 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: not think it would be pleased if this gets out. 180 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: And then he watched the video and he was over 181 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: the moon. He was like, oh, awesome, you guys filmed it. 182 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: I look great. He was like, I look great. Can 183 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: I have copies of this because I want to show 184 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: it to the crew. And then so basically he just 185 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: needn't care. He didn't care at all, but he was 186 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: proud and he was like, oh, ahead, distribute, It'll make 187 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: me look like a real ball ar. Yeah, he had 188 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: a weird set of priorities. That's the most famous case 189 00:11:54,760 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: of it backfiring. So we've been talking a lot about 190 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: bedrooms today and now let's talk about them in a 191 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: little more of a of a wholesome way, a platonic way. 192 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: If you will, yes, yes, if you will. Do you 193 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: have a relationship with your bed, Ben, I have a 194 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: deep and abiding relationship with my bed because I've finally 195 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: met the mattress for me. It's a Casper mattress, which 196 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: I've had for a number of years now, and I 197 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: love it. And I think you have one too. I 198 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: do have one, and I'll tell you I slept on 199 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: a non Casper mattress last night. My friend and I 200 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: woke up with all kinds of cricks and cracks and aches. 201 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: It was not fun, and it really made me realize 202 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: why Casper is such a big deal, Because it's a 203 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: sleep brand that makes expertly designed products to help you 204 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: and me get the best rest of your life one 205 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: night at a time. That's right, you know. Think about it, folks. 206 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: We spend one third of our lives sleeping, so shouldn't 207 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: we at least try to be comfortable for that thirty 208 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 1: three point three three three three percent of our lives? Yeah, 209 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: it's true. Casper knows this, and that's why They're products 210 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: are cleverly designed to mimic human curves, providing supportive comfort 211 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: for all kinds of bodies. That's right. The original Casper 212 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: mattress combines multiple supportive memory foams for quality sleep surface 213 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,319 Speaker 1: with the right amounts of both sink and bounce. If 214 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,439 Speaker 1: it's one thing I love, it's multiple foams. 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That's one hundred dollars towards select mattresses 223 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: when you visit Casper dot com slash ridiculous and use 224 00:13:53,679 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: the code ridiculous at checkout. While we're on Russian uh noll? 225 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: Is it true that the Russian government perfected a trap? 226 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: They certainly made it into a bit of an art form. 227 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: There's a really interesting quote from a former KGB agent 228 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: saying that the Soviet intelligence agencies didn't ask Russian women 229 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: to stand up for their country, but asked them to 230 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: lay down. Yeah. And again, like we're talking about that 231 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: movie read Sparrow. Uh. The idea of the Sparrow School. 232 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: It trained these young, very intelligent women to use their 233 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: bodies in their intellect kind of like as like a 234 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: super weapon, you know. Um So it absolutely was a 235 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: part of of their their tactics. And and a particularly 236 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: famous Cold War spy case UH involves Clayton Loan Tree, 237 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: who was a Marine Corps guard security guard who was 238 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: taken in by a female Soviet officer and then um 239 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: was forced to share classified documents through a honeypot type scheme. 240 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: Uh and in nine seven he was convicted of espionage, 241 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: the first Marine convicted of espionage. Yep, gosh, can you 242 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: imagine the shame I mean, you know what I mean 243 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: like and to be exposed like that, and to be literally, 244 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: you know, put on trial by your own country who 245 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: you like, you know, believed in enough to join the 246 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: Marine Corps to serve I feel like I'm I'm already 247 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: immune to any kind of honey pot or compromat because 248 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: you know, anytime someone hits on me, I feel like 249 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: we're both just very disappointed. In general, don't sell yourself Shore. 250 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: You could be compromised, thanks man, thank you. You could 251 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: be indecently proposed to Well, technically it's possible, because you 252 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: know this. This tactic on the Russian side did not 253 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: disappear with the fall of the Soviet Union. Recently, a 254 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: political satirist in Russia, a guy named Viktor Schindarrovich and 255 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: I'm butchering the Russian there he was filmed cheating on 256 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: his spouse with a young woman whose name was Katya, 257 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,239 Speaker 1: and weirdly enough, the same young woman, the same Katya 258 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: had also seduced like six other critics of the government. 259 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: And then there was another series of traps. One appeared 260 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: to catch an American diplomat in two thousand and nine. 261 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: The State Department says that that episode was fabricated, that 262 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: nothing actually happened, but the government of Russia made it 263 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: up for some reason. And Russia is not the only, uh, 264 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: not the only game in town here. It's true. UM. 265 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: China was recently discovered UM to be using this technique 266 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: as well. Though you got to imagine that, you know, 267 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: again Taylor, as old as time, I could imagine it 268 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: going back to much much farther in the past than this. 269 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: But in two thousand nine it was discovered that Deputy 270 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: Mayor of London, Ian Clement, was actually drugged UM and 271 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: deuce the old one to punch in a hotel room 272 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: in Beijing. Um. When he awakened, he found that his 273 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: BlackBerry was gone um. And then he admitted that he 274 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,120 Speaker 1: quote fell for the oldest trick in the book, Which 275 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: is why I find it hard to believe that that 276 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: we're just now saying oh, yeah, China does this too. Um, 277 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: that seems like a little bit uh like, um duh. 278 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: Just gonna go out on a limb and say, if 279 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: you are an important diplomat, if you are a government 280 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: military official, or a corporate tycoon, and you're hanging out 281 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 1: at a hotel bar, just be skeptical, use critical thinking 282 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,359 Speaker 1: when someone sidles up to you. Now, I know it 283 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: sounds like we're you know, being a bit restrictive because 284 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: so far stories have all been about dudes being seduced. However, 285 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: make no mistake, women have also been the targets of 286 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 1: honey trap operations. Are you talking about spymaster Devolf? Yes, yes, indeed, yeah, 287 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: it's true. During the Cold War, East German intelligence chief 288 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: Marcus Wolff sent uh agents of Stazi, which is a 289 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: lot of these intelligence agency names are new to me. 290 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: Stazi would have been the East German intelligence agencies that 291 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 1: correct sent agents of Stazi um called Romeo spies love 292 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: that uh into West Germany to work their masculine wiles 293 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: on powerful women and uh and and get at those 294 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: uh those secrets. Yep. And this was a smaller part 295 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: of his larger operation. You see this spymaster Marcus Wolf 296 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: ran the largest honey trap operation that we know of 297 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 1: in human history. In the nineteen fifties. Wolf had this thought, 298 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 1: he said, huh, there are a lot of dead german Men. 299 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: He said, a lot of the German Men who would 300 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: be of marrying age have died during World War Two. 301 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: And more and more German women are becoming professionals, are 302 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: pursuing higher echelons of government and industry. And he said, 303 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: you know what, that it's lonely at the top. Maybe 304 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: we could, maybe we could work something out. Maybe we 305 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: could send a few, you know, interesting young men of 306 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 1: charm and intrigue to talk to these lonely folks at 307 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: the height of industry. So he set up this special 308 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: department of the Stazi, and he staffed it with his 309 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: most intelligent officers, but also the most handsome. Those are 310 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 1: the ones you're talking about, right, and all the Romeo spies. 311 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: It is, indeed, and there's a really a great history 312 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: account of this on Foreign policy dot com, The History 313 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: of the honey Trap that I highly recommend checking out. 314 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: And um, I think they might be using a little 315 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: body dub duble entendre here when they say that thanks 316 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: to the Romeo spies and their honey traps, the Stasi 317 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: penetrated most levels of the West German government and industry. 318 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: Or maybe that's just my filthy, filthy mind. I don't know, man, 319 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: maybe you're getting honey trapped with that article. Don't let 320 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: them get in your head, you know what's true. At 321 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: one point, the East Germans even um sent spies to 322 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: infiltrate NATO and was able to extract some very crucial 323 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: information on the Western deployment of of nukes. Well you 324 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: know how they got caught right this, this scheme was 325 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: going gangbusters until it became useless. And pretty quickly, West 326 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 1: German counterintelligence authorities figured out that you could tell a 327 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: Romeo spy by the haircut. No lie, it sounds so simple, 328 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: but the spies had these practical short back insides haircuts 329 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: similar not quite a high and type, but you know, 330 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: a clean cut haircut. And in West Germany the hairstyles 331 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: tended to be more elaborate and more complete aided, so 332 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: like pompadours, it was a whole thing West German haircuts. 333 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: So counter intelligence officers would get the would get the 334 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: heads up from a guard at a train, at a 335 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 1: train station or on the train and then they would fall. 336 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: They'd be like follow that haircut, and the intelligence agencies 337 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: would follow the spy and they would arrest them as 338 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: soon as they did something wrong, because they had to 339 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: wait for them to do something wrong. Yes, and three 340 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: of these women were rooted out and uh, and they 341 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: went on trial, but they didn't really get the book 342 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: thrown at them so much as just a little slap 343 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: on the wrist. I think. Um, one of them who 344 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 1: got into West German intelligence got six and a half years. 345 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: It's not not really slept on the wrist, but it's 346 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: certainly better than death, I guess um. And that was 347 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: largely because of public um kind of sympathy towards her. 348 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: In West Germany. Um, they kind of identified with these women. Volf, 349 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:04,439 Speaker 1: the spy master in question, was on trial twice and 350 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: this is after the collapse of communism, but he only 351 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: got a two year sentence that had been suspended. And yeah, 352 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: that's that's really interesting to me. The guy that kind 353 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: of like mastermind this whole thing got maybe the most 354 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: lenient sentence of all. And he's a complicated character. He 355 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: went on to pursue a second career as an author. 356 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: He is anomalous amidst the players in the intelligence game 357 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: Spy Masters, because he published an autobiography called Man Without 358 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: a Face, great title, and in this he attempts to 359 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: set the record straight more or less, or at least 360 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: rationalize his actions. He said he never put pressure on 361 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 1: any officers to use honeypot tactics in the course of 362 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: their work. He said it was up to their discretion. 363 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 1: He said, quote, they were sharp operators who realized that 364 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: a lot can be with sex. This is true in 365 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: business and espionage because it opens up channels of communication 366 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: more quickly than other approaches. And of course, he said, 367 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: as long as there is espionage, there will be Romeos 368 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: seducing unsuspecting targets with access to secrets. And here's where 369 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: I think he's kind of trying to redeem himself a little. 370 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: He says, Look, look, look, I was running an intelligence service, 371 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 1: not a lonely hearts club. So he's like, look, I'm 372 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 1: not a matchmaker. I'm not telling people to date each other. Yeah. 373 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: It was something of a of an espionage pimp type figure, 374 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: though in a way Honey, yeah, I don't think you 375 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: can distance yourself in that way now, what do you 376 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: think Ben was? James Bond a Romeo spy. He used 377 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: seduction quite often on powerful women. James Bond was a 378 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 1: terrible spy. He was a bad He says his name 379 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: every time he meets people. That's true, and I you've 380 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: mentioned them before. But but he's double O seven. Maybe 381 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: his name really is I don't know, Like I wonder 382 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: you know, there's a new Bond film coming up. Is 383 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: it still with Daniel Craig. I think there's I think 384 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: there's a new Bond who is going out. The rumor 385 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: I heard is there's a female Bond. That's right. I 386 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: think it's Daniel Craig and this kind of new person. 387 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: So he's gonna pass the torch. Yeah, something like that. 388 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: I think that's the idea. Anyway, Casey on the case, yea, indeed, 389 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: we've got to check it out. Yeah, I don't know. 390 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 1: The new ones with Craig are okay. They're kind of fun. 391 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: I like James Bond, I like I like seeing a 392 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 1: terrible spy. But the action sequences are great and I 393 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: love some intrigue. Remember that Guy Mad's Michelson playing right 394 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: is one of Casey Pegram's French associates. It's la bouche 395 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: And what does the chef mean? Does that mean like 396 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: c h I F F R E. Yeah, he chief, 397 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 1: which in French means like digits. It's literally kind of 398 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: the numeral the zero to nine that that you would 399 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: right to represent a number, but it can also mean 400 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,959 Speaker 1: like figures, statistics, you know, quarterly results, something like that 401 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: would be less chief. Um. Yeah, it's it's surprisingly nuanced 402 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 1: in French. There's like the namba, which is like the number, 403 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 1: new mail hole which is also kind of like number, 404 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: but would be more like for addresses and that kind 405 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: of thing. Uh. And then les Chief which again digits 406 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 1: and uh, figures and that kind of thing. And he's 407 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: like a big gambler in the casino reale, So that 408 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: makes sense. Casey on the case, big time, double triple case. 409 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: So this episode is a little weird for us because 410 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: we usually like to examine things that happened before some 411 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: time around the nineties. However, this is still occurring today. 412 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: And a question that was on a lot of our 413 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: fellow listeners minds here was almost certainly, were there any 414 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 1: real red Sparrows. Was there any sands to this movie, 415 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: any real life stuff? Not just single agents, but was 416 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: there some sort of school. Well, according to Jason Matthews, 417 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,880 Speaker 1: who is a CIA veteran with more than thirty years 418 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:23,199 Speaker 1: in the game, Red Sparrow is somewhat real, or at 419 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: least inspired by true events, the Soviet Union really did 420 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 1: once run a school to train young women in being 421 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: professional seducers of diplomats. Oh good, So I don't seem 422 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: like a complete moron for referencing that movie several times. 423 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: No No is prescient. And this is this is strange 424 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: because it has a lot in common with what we 425 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: see in the art of the con You know, when 426 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,880 Speaker 1: we see scam artists, they prey on people's baser desires 427 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: and their human failings. So if you get anything from 428 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: today's episode, first off, if a stranger comes up to 429 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: you and is really trying to put the moves on you, 430 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: just be aware that they might have an ulterior motive, 431 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Not saying that love at 432 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: first sight doesn't happen. It's just a thing you should 433 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: think critically about. According to the Beatles, it happens all 434 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 1: the time. I love at first sight. They believe it anyway, 435 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: I I like to believe it. I would like to 436 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: play I love the Beatles. Ben, Can I ask you 437 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: a question, a personal question? Sure? Can you tell what 438 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: my shirt is? Uh? It's a it's a painting. It 439 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: looks almost like kind of like a mutant Simpson's on 440 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: the couch situation. That's correct, it's cool. I really did it. Thanks, Casey, 441 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: you're close to Ben Is. It is a painting, but 442 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: like you can see Marge's hair there and like a 443 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: weird blobby Bart and Lisa. I ordered this sight unseen 444 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: off of an Instagram ad. I didn't even think it 445 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 1: was gonna come, but it came. That's all I got. 446 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 1: It's the power of shipping, power of shipping indeed, and 447 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: the power of belief that good things will happen. Um. 448 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: But you're right, Ben, it's important to keep your wits 449 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: about you in these situations. You just you just can't 450 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 1: take everything at face value. You don't want to like 451 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: be suspicious of everyone that you meet and think that 452 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: everyone that's showing any interest you is some kind of 453 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: secret superspy. But you know, take care of yourselves out there, people, 454 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: And let us know if you have ever witnessed a 455 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:26,800 Speaker 1: honey trap in operation. We totally understand if you would 456 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,880 Speaker 1: rather not disclose your full name, etcetera, etcetera. There are 457 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,879 Speaker 1: so many ways to get in touch with us. You 458 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram, you can find us on Facebook. 459 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter as Ridiculous History, Ridiculous 460 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: History Show, or some derivation thereof. You can also follow 461 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: us on our personal adventures. I'm on Instagram as at 462 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: Ben Bolan and Twitter as at Ben Bowland hs W, 463 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: and you can find me on Instagram exclusively at how 464 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: Now Noel Brown Big thanks to Alex Williams, who composed 465 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: our theme. Super producer Casey Pegram on the case left 466 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: and right. Christopher Hasciot is here in spirit. Gabe Lozier 467 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: Research Associate, We love you Eve's Jeff Cote. Of course, 468 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: check out her history shows as well on our network. 469 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: And where would we be without Young Quizzles a k a. 470 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: The Quister a k a. Jonathan Strickling a k a. 471 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: Quizzlers makes mouths happy? Remember that tagline for Twizzlers makes 472 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: mouths happy. It's kind of clunky and it feels problem 473 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, We'll see you next time, folks. For 474 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit The I Heart radio, app, 475 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.