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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants huts. Giants dunt

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Speaker 1: come on my Giants bubble, give me some job. Part

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Speaker 1: of the Giants Podcast Network, Let's roll.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to another edition of the Giant Huttle Podcast, brought

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Speaker 2: to you by Citizens, the official bank of the New

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Speaker 2: York Giants.

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Speaker 1: I am John Schmelk.

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Speaker 2: You might not know the face of the man I'm

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Speaker 2: talking to, but you've heard his voice on our program

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Speaker 2: many times before. He's usually a guest on Big Blue

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Speaker 2: Kickoff Live around this time. But we decide to do

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Speaker 2: the Giants Huddle this year because it's such a big

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Speaker 2: time year for skill position guys in this draft, one

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Speaker 2: of the best skill position drafts I can remember. He

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Speaker 2: is Matt Waldman, who is the author of the Scouting RSP. Matt,

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Speaker 2: it's good to talk to you, my man, and congratulations

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Speaker 2: on having the book out.

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Speaker 1: And I forgot to check how long it was this year?

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Speaker 1: What did you check in? And in terms of Turtle pages.

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Speaker 3: Eleven three. So yeah, if it scares you when you

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Speaker 3: hear that for four positions, let's just understand it's kind

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Speaker 3: of a it's really well bookmarked as a p and

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Speaker 3: you kind of get to choose your own adventure as

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Speaker 3: far as how you do it. You just get as

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Speaker 3: much depth as you want to have. And if you

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Speaker 3: want the executive summary, it's in there too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 2: So what Matt does every year is that he takes quarterbacks,

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Speaker 2: wide receivers, running backs, and tight ends. He does rankings,

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Speaker 2: and I love how you have the preface to every

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Speaker 2: one of your rankings that rankings stink, but I do

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Speaker 2: them anyway because people want them. But more importantly, it's

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Speaker 2: really broken down into different qualities and skills and traits

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Speaker 2: in each position group and you can really dive into

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Speaker 2: these players in a really deep way. And what I

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Speaker 2: appreciate about the book, Matt, is your rankings are different,

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Speaker 2: and that doesn't mean they're going to be right, but

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Speaker 2: it means that they're different because it shows that you

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Speaker 2: do your own work. And I think whenever you see

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Speaker 2: people whose rankings are different, it shows that they do

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Speaker 2: their own work in their own way, and they come

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Speaker 2: to different conclusions. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong. That

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Speaker 2: happens all of us. None of us are perfect. But

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Speaker 2: just talk about your process a little bit before we

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Speaker 2: get into exactly where you have some of these players

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Speaker 2: that maybe are different from us from some other people.

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Speaker 3: Sure. Back in the day before I started this, you know,

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Speaker 3: my background was in operations and quality management. I worked

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Speaker 3: for a company that about seventy branches across the United

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Speaker 3: States and ten thousand employees, and I was responsible for

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Speaker 3: implementing a lot of process improvement measures that I got

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Speaker 3: certified for. The company was actually based in New Jersey,

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Speaker 3: so I used to go up there on a regular

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Speaker 3: basis and I learned the certification process. And because I

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Speaker 3: was into fantasy football, and I was always I was

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Speaker 3: this last key kid growing up in Cleveland, Ohio who

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Speaker 3: used to skip school, and I'd planned my skip days

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Speaker 3: by going to the library to read books about football

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Speaker 3: players from the nineteen thirties to the nineteen sixties. So

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Speaker 3: I was always like a special weird case at that point.

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Speaker 3: But I realized one day, after listening to Gil Brandt

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Speaker 3: talk about Brian Westbrook and why he wouldn't be a

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Speaker 3: top five pick, but why he could be worth a

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Speaker 3: top five pick, that I I understood the the NFL

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Speaker 3: in a way from a from an organizational standpoint, and

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Speaker 3: I wanted to learn how and I had the tools

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Speaker 3: to learn how to evaluate players you know, or at

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Speaker 3: least evaluate performance. So I thought I'd apply that to

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Speaker 3: football and I could continue to grow this process. So

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Speaker 3: what it is best practices from other industries applied to

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Speaker 3: evaluating talent. And so when I when I do that,

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Speaker 3: one of the things that I've always realized because of

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Speaker 3: my background was that the only way you're going to

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Speaker 3: get better is one is have a process that is consistent,

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Speaker 3: continuously improving. And also that you your process is your

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Speaker 3: north star, is your is your compass because you can't

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Speaker 3: listen to anybody else because you don't know what they were,

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Speaker 3: where they were coming from, for why, whether they were

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Speaker 3: right or wrong. You've got to learn from your mistakes.

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Speaker 3: So you know, over the years, you know, I've certainly

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Speaker 3: had some big calls and I've had some big mistakes.

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Speaker 3: You know, I've been I've been someone who's been able

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Speaker 3: to say, you know, I've written a Patrick Mahomes Skoyning

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Speaker 3: Report that I can take to my grave and be

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Speaker 3: proud of because I've had somebody tell me Chief Skoles

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Speaker 3: overheard the combines. If they ever meet met Waldman, they're

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Speaker 3: giving him a big hug. And and if you read

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Speaker 3: my Scotty Report, I have available. Matt WALDMANARSP dot com

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Speaker 3: on Patrick Mahomes. It reads like I knew the future.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm I know that sounds kind of not

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Speaker 3: very modest, but I'm proud of that report. You know.

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Speaker 3: On the other hand, you know, I've looked at players

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Speaker 3: and said I didn't think Demarius Thomas would be worth

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Speaker 3: really anything as a starter in the league. I've missed

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Speaker 3: on Blaine Gabbert, you know, and had to learn some

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Speaker 3: big lessons on guys like that recently. You know, I

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Speaker 3: thought Keem Butler was going to be a huge player,

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Speaker 3: but that also helped me learn a lot with wide receivers,

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Speaker 3: and you know Aj Brown, Justin Jefferson, Jalen Reid, you know,

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Speaker 3: a lot, Cooper Cup, a lot of players I did

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Speaker 3: end up pitting on. But it's you don't have those

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Speaker 3: big hits without learning from your big misses. And sometimes

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Speaker 3: you have to learn the difference between when to change

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Speaker 3: what you're doing and when to hold the course and

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Speaker 3: know that some of these things may be outside your purview.

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Speaker 3: It could be that they didn't want to work, they

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Speaker 3: didn't get fit with the right scheme, and maybe the

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Speaker 3: GM wanted this guy, but the coach is like, no,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to fatten this tight end up and make

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Speaker 3: them be an inline blocker room. We know at six four,

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Speaker 3: two fifty that's not really his gig. But our offense

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Speaker 3: doesn't need that. But the GM was so sold on them. No,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to prove that GM wrong. I've literally had

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Speaker 3: scouts right me and go. You have no idea how

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Speaker 3: often that happens in the league where there's like a

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Speaker 3: basically a match of wills between two employees, high level

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Speaker 3: employees basically saying, oh, you're going to give me this guy.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to show you why he doesn't fit in

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Speaker 3: what I do. So next time you're going to do

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Speaker 3: what I'm asking you.

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Speaker 1: That's why you need buying right in the draft room.

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Speaker 2: That's why you know right now the Giants right upstairs

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Speaker 2: from where I'm sitting there having the rooms, all the

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Speaker 2: scouts are here, the coaches are now involved, Joe Shane,

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Speaker 2: the general manager, everyone else in the department. You need

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Speaker 2: to have agreement on a player, right The scouting staff

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Speaker 2: might love a player, if the coaches don't, you give

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Speaker 2: them to the coaches.

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Speaker 1: They don't know how to use them. It's not gonna work.

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Speaker 2: So I think you make a really good point before

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Speaker 2: we get started, man, I want to make sure give

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Speaker 2: the tell the fans where they can find your your

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Speaker 2: RSP real quick.

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Speaker 3: Sure, Matt Waldman dot com. It's twenty one to ninety five.

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Speaker 3: You get a pre draft that will give you a

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Speaker 3: couple of years, maybe three years of evergreen material, especially

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Speaker 3: even if you're in a fantasy league. It's one of

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Speaker 3: the two most purchased draft guides, even by like NFL

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Speaker 3: people who like recruiter Alex Brown at Old Miss and

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Speaker 3: used to be recruiting director at SMU last year, would say,

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Speaker 3: you know, these are he knows what people come into

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Speaker 3: the door with, and these are and this is one

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Speaker 3: of the two most purchase draft guys for that. And

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Speaker 3: then there's a post draft that is really fantasy focused

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Speaker 3: or I'm I'm a senior staff writer Football Guys dot

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Speaker 3: com and right about fantasy football since two thousand and three.

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Speaker 3: So I give you try and give you the best

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Speaker 3: of both worlds. But it's rooted in real football and

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Speaker 3: real process evaluation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, appreciate it, man. And look, you do great tracking.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's where it starts here. And I'm

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Speaker 2: actually I'm very happy you're having you on now, Matt,

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Speaker 2: because last week we had a couple guys on and

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Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of this player myself. We ha

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Speaker 2: Nate Tyson from the Athletic who is a great job

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Speaker 2: cover in the NFL, and he has Drake May's number

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Speaker 2: one quarterback, Stephen Ruiz we had on he has him

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Speaker 2: as his number two quarterback. May my number two guy.

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Speaker 2: I'm a big Drake May guy. I love his ability

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Speaker 2: to throw with the middle, tight windows, you know, throwing

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Speaker 2: all the physical traits he has. That's great you have

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Speaker 2: him as your sixth quarterback. So give me the other

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Speaker 2: side of the ledger on why you think he's much

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Speaker 2: more of a developmental player. If I read your breakdown correctly,

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Speaker 2: then he is a guy you can plug and play

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Speaker 2: and have him ready to really contribute right away.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and developmental player for a quarterback is different than

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Speaker 3: development or player for everybody else because we would probably,

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Speaker 3: I think a good way of kind of Parson this

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Speaker 3: is that he's a he has starter upside in a

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Speaker 3: player that's going to need time because today's NFL, as

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Speaker 3: we know. Look, I'm not going to pick on the Giants.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna pick on every team in the league and

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Speaker 3: say this is that I think that the stats bear

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Speaker 3: out very very well that the NFL hasn't figured out

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Speaker 3: how to pick, evaluate, and develop quarterbacks.

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Speaker 1: You can't argue it. You can't argue it. It's impossible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so because and the the problem is is that

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Speaker 3: that there's a different template for successful development with quarterbacks.

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Speaker 3: There's not just one template for what makes a good quarterback.

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Speaker 3: You know, Brett farvs as different as Kirk Cousins. You know,

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Speaker 3: so you know, when you talk look at the history

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Speaker 3: of the game from Ben Roethlisberger to you know, Drew

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Speaker 3: Bledsoe to Patrick Mahomes or Jalen Hurts. So anyway, when

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Speaker 3: you look at Drake May, I can see how the

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Speaker 3: path for him to becoming a successful starter is there.

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Speaker 3: Like you said, big arm, tough in the pocket, he

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Speaker 3: has all the bullet point physical traits that NFL teams go.

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Speaker 3: I feel at least semi safe with my job if

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Speaker 3: I pick this guy in the first round, because what's

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Speaker 3: anyone going to do to indict me if he doesn't

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Speaker 3: work out? Considering that he went to a big program,

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Speaker 3: had the requisite completion percentage that Bill Parcells did in

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Speaker 3: his little shorthand of what he did for quarterbacks. He

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Speaker 3: you know, he shows all the NFL physical traits. The

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Speaker 3: thing is is the glue that holds those things together

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Speaker 3: to make a quarterback great, and that teams are starting

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Speaker 3: to realize they need to figure out what to do

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Speaker 3: is processing speed and pocket management.

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Speaker 2: Which, by the way, I think processings be from just

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Speaker 2: without knowing what they're teaching them. I think for me,

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Speaker 2: at least, that's something that's very tough for me to

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Speaker 2: figure out just from watching college tape, to be honest with.

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Speaker 3: You, Yeah, and it is very difficult to figure out.

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Speaker 3: And one of the things that you know, for me,

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Speaker 3: I think where I've had more and more success over

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Speaker 3: the years with quarterbacks and kind of identifying quarterbacks that

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Speaker 3: were high in the draft that didn't turn out so

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Speaker 3: good because of their processing speed, where guys like Zach Wilson,

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Speaker 3: Mitchell Drubisky, Drew Locke and because but processing speed is

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Speaker 3: a lot to me, like I equate it to stand

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Speaker 3: up comedy, okay, because it's a stage performance thing. You

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Speaker 3: have to have a basic theory of how to be

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Speaker 3: on stage, how to perform, how to use your voice,

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Speaker 3: all the techniques of like presence, using your voice to

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Speaker 3: tell a story, timing, all that, but you also have

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Speaker 3: to be able to riff with the audience, and you

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Speaker 3: have to be able to turn a disadvantageous situation into

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Speaker 3: an advantageous one. And you're incorporating and integrating all these

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Speaker 3: skills to do it. So you could have great material.

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Speaker 3: But if you don't have good timing, that processing speed

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Speaker 3: of like anticipating the opening and landing it with perfect

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Speaker 3: confidence of timing, like you see that leverage with the

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Speaker 3: safety and you go, that's going to break open and

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Speaker 3: the ball's got to come out as soon as you

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Speaker 3: see it. Well, Alex Smith was a great example, bringing

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Speaker 3: back Gil Brandt again saying, Hey, the best pro day

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Speaker 3: I ever saw since you know, Troy Aikman. But Alex

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Speaker 3: Smith may have had the book smarts and the whiteboard

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Speaker 3: smarts of saying economist and maybe a genius comedy writer,

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Speaker 3: you know who had unbelievably intelligent funny material, but when

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Speaker 3: it came time to actually delivering the joke with timing,

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Speaker 3: it fell flat too often. And all comedians, like all quarterbacks,

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Speaker 3: Bob like, they tell bad jokes throughout a set. Whoever

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Speaker 3: your favorite comedian is tells bad jokes, Like you could

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Speaker 3: probably count how many bad jokes Bill Berd has, but

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Speaker 3: the ones he lands are uproarious and so like I

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Speaker 3: look at it and say, the difference between say Alex

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Speaker 3: Smith and Brett farr would be that Alex Smith had

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Speaker 3: an incredibly intelligent material that he couldn't land with timing.

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Speaker 3: Brett Farv made a lot of bad jokes, crass jokes,

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Speaker 3: but some of his fart jokes were actually uprorious even

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Speaker 3: if you knew they were coming, because the timing was

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Speaker 3: so good you couldn't help but laugh. And that's the

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Speaker 3: thing with quarterbacking that I think it's hard to see

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Speaker 3: when you're studying, but if you're looking at coverage and

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Speaker 3: understanding leverage more than like knowing about whether it's a

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Speaker 3: cover three cloud or Cover two or cover one and

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Speaker 3: where and knowing all the terminology of scheme, that's great.

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Speaker 3: But really, when it comes down to it, I would

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Speaker 3: recommend anybody out there was a diared football fan to

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Speaker 3: get Dub Dub maddox m a d d Ux Dub

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Speaker 3: Maddox's book R four From Headset to Helmet. He is

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Speaker 3: a big time high school coach that my buddy will Hewlett,

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Speaker 3: who I've done some contributions for, who coached Rock Purdy,

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Speaker 3: coached Anthony Richardson, still coaches him and did some work

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Speaker 3: with Kayleb Williams this year and has always been known

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Speaker 3: as like a guy that helps get late round quarterbacks

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Speaker 3: an opportunity to be late round quarterbacks until he started

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Speaker 3: with these guys. But he recommends me over ten years ago,

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Speaker 3: and it's a great understanding of how to read leverage

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Speaker 3: and all the great quarterbacks they didn't study with dubmatics.

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Speaker 3: They just know in addition to all the coverage theory

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Speaker 3: that at the end of the day, it's about seeing

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Speaker 3: it quickly and knowing what they're reading and processing it

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Speaker 3: fast and knowing where the ball needs to come out

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Speaker 3: and where it needs to be placed and being able

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Speaker 3: to do that also with pre snap post snap tells.

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Speaker 3: So there's a lot of decision making, management and quick

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Speaker 3: reading and a lot of It's like the NFL right now,

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Speaker 3: it's still looking at things by whiteboard and book smarts

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Speaker 3: when they need to be incorporating a lot more about

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Speaker 3: timing and confidence of timing and the courage to continue

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Speaker 3: to have that timing, when you fail, when you make

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Speaker 3: a mistake, and those are things that with Drake May

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Speaker 3: I see him drift in the pocket and invite pressure

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Speaker 3: that he shouldn't. I see throws that are accurate in

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Speaker 3: completion percentage, but not accurate when I chart the difference

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Speaker 3: between receivers having to work for the ball unnecessarily according

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Speaker 3: to the route and the coverage position and pinpoint accuracy

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Speaker 3: that Bill Walsh would have defined his Bill pinpoint accuracy.

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Speaker 3: So and then I see red zone gafs and black

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Speaker 3: zone gafs backed up in your own area, and those

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Speaker 3: are really important areas. So when I right now, he's

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Speaker 3: that guy that if he were in a different NFL

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Speaker 3: world where there were more Marti Shottenheimer's who said who

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Speaker 3: would say, I'm gonna bench you for a while because

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Speaker 3: you're not seeing the game right. You're seeing ghosts like

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Speaker 3: Sam Darnel did. But instead of telling Adam Gase and

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Speaker 3: he just keeps staring off into the distance, you know

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Speaker 3: you would have and alienates you. Instead, you would have

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Speaker 3: a shot in Himer God, I'm gonna put the veteran in.

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Speaker 3: If we get close, you're still my guy. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to give you a chance to like see the feel

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Speaker 3: again better and slow down and give you another chance.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly what he did with Drew Brees, and I

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Speaker 3: think Drake may needs that, or he may even need

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Speaker 3: a little more of the Jordan Love treatment, who was

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Speaker 3: nowhere ready to start, but you could see in his

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Speaker 3: game that like, if this dude figures it out, he

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Speaker 3: could be good. And when he finally got into a

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Speaker 3: Packers lineup as the permanent starter, he had enough intermittent

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Speaker 3: experiences on the field and practice field that you could

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Speaker 3: see that the footwork, the mechanics, the understanding of the

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Speaker 3: offense and defenses were ingrained enough that he wasn't overthinking things.

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Speaker 3: And if you get rushed down to the field, your

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Speaker 3: timing slows down because you're overthinking, and then the things

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Speaker 3: that you had ingrained you're now screwing up because you're

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Speaker 3: thinking about all that. Plus that you're in new Town

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Speaker 3: and you've and you've got a lot of money, and

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Speaker 3: people are asking you tons of questions off the field,

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Speaker 3: and there's all this demand, and now you're completely discombobulated

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Speaker 3: because the hardest part you haven't even gotten to yet,

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Speaker 3: which is faster, stronger, savvier, defenses.

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Speaker 4: You love turf, you're good at it, so you start

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Speaker 4: a turf Fizz business grows, your savings grow, become the

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Speaker 4: most celebrated name in turf. Are you ready for all

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Speaker 4: that life brings?

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Speaker 3: All? Right?

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Speaker 2: You have Pennix as your second quarterback and Nix is

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Speaker 2: your third one. And I think it's interesting and you

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Speaker 2: actually go through this with Pennix you talk about in

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Speaker 2: your passage on him, but you talk to some scouting

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Speaker 2: buddies and they're like, we don't like the way he

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Speaker 2: handles pressure. And that's my thing with him too. I

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Speaker 2: don't think as a guy that has to he can relocate,

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Speaker 2: but once he's on the move, I I just don't like.

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Speaker 2: And I think sometimes he'll just kind of, you know, backfoot,

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Speaker 2: get it out quick when he sees pressure in his face.

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Speaker 2: You don't think that's a problem. You have him as

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Speaker 2: your second quarterback and you know bo Nix is your third.

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Speaker 2: So why do you think you like those two guys?

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Speaker 2: Maybe them some of the other analysts out there.

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Speaker 3: Sure, because I think they're actually When I look at

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Speaker 3: Pennix and especially Indiana Tape, he lived with pressure as

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Speaker 3: a second skin and he was so good at being

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Speaker 3: able to throw the ball away and get rid of

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Speaker 3: it and just manage situations. And you hear this all

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Speaker 3: the time in the NFL about and you'll hear coaches

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Speaker 3: even say it to like their big time physical prospects

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Speaker 3: who can work away from the pocket, Like I remember

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Speaker 3: hearing them tell it Anthony Richardson this early and see

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Speaker 3: they just remember, just just take the little losses because

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Speaker 3: those are going to lead to big victories. And those

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Speaker 3: little losses are throwing the ball away, you know, And

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Speaker 3: almost those guys have to learn that. He does have

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Speaker 3: his arm talent to make throws off platform is very strong.

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Speaker 3: And I found that he was better at staying in

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Speaker 3: the pocket and didn't break the pocket as much as

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Speaker 3: other guys who we often loud for getting outside the

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Speaker 3: pocket when they should step up, they should climb and throw,

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Speaker 3: and he's very good at being able to climb and

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Speaker 3: throw and find the open man over the middle. I

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Speaker 3: think he's underrated in that respect. When I charted what

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Speaker 3: he was doing for six stake, I think probably eight

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Speaker 3: games with that. And it's in the addition to watching

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Speaker 3: more both at Indiana and at Washington last year and

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Speaker 3: this year. So I'm a fan of what I see there.

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Speaker 3: Injuries worry people because to acls two shoulder injuries, But

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Speaker 3: at the same time, you can flip it and say

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Speaker 3: that's going to be it make him a little bit

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Speaker 3: of a discount. But the percentage chant risk of injury

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Speaker 3: rising because of that is small. It's not like a

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Speaker 3: twenty percent rise. It's like a two percent rise, maybe

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Speaker 3: you know when you look at that. So at the

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Speaker 3: end of the day, I'd rather have a battle tested

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Speaker 3: quarterback who didn't you know, Derek who didn't basically Derek

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Speaker 3: Carr or David Carr, you know in his career in

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Speaker 3: terms of like wilt from the constant pressure. In fact,

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Speaker 3: he got better. And I remember Lamar Jackson and feeling

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Speaker 3: the same way about him and seeing people would talk

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Speaker 3: about his pocket presence, and I'm thinking, this guy is

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Speaker 3: a total anchor in the pocket because of the ability

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Speaker 3: to make efficient movements bo Nicks. Bo Nicks is not

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Speaker 3: the most exciting quarterback prospect. I think we'll all agree

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Speaker 3: on that, probably, and that's probably why it's a surprise.

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Speaker 3: But I think because of my process, there are a

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Speaker 3: lot of people who look at what May does or

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Speaker 3: JJ McCarthy does, or Jalen Daniels does, and they see

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Speaker 3: the upside, and I think they overweigh the upside a

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Speaker 3: little bit. Whereas with bo Nicks, what he does so

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Speaker 3: well is he doesn't make a ton of mistakes. He

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Speaker 3: actually knows his limitations, and his limitations aren't huge. It's

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Speaker 3: the difference between Matt Ryan and Drew Locke. Drew Locke

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Speaker 3: who I think can turn the corner. Actually, I think

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Speaker 3: he's a guy who could he if what we saw

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Speaker 3: in Seattle late and the seas and especially the interview afterwards.

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Speaker 3: I'm getting a little bit in the narrative street rather

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Speaker 3: than analysis here. But I know someone who interviewed Drew

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Speaker 3: Locke's dad, and Drew lo dad echoed a lot of

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Speaker 3: the things I mentioned in my original Scott and report

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Speaker 3: of him, and I thought he could be a talent starter,

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Speaker 3: but he was more in that Drake May school where

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Speaker 3: it's like maybe he needs a little bit more time

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Speaker 3: and put in some of the work. And Drew's from

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Speaker 3: all reports, is a great guy, you know, great guy.

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Speaker 3: He just was like a lot of young talented guys

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Speaker 3: who were told they're awesome, but you need to work

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Speaker 3: on this, and he nod his head go okay, but

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Speaker 3: didn't really do it because he thought he'd have more

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Speaker 3: time to get there. And then he got to the

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Speaker 3: NFL and realized, oh, time's up. Like I should have

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Speaker 3: been starting this stuff late in high school. But I

404
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Speaker 3: got by on a lot of my arm talent and

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Speaker 3: a lot of the Layton talents that I do have.

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Speaker 3: When you look at bo Nick's I think he knows

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Speaker 3: what he can and can't do, and instead of maybe

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Speaker 3: having the Drew lock esque abilities physically, he's got more

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Speaker 3: Matt Ryan esque ability, Matt Ryan Kirk cousins. And you

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Speaker 3: look at those guys, you go okay. Those guys could

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Speaker 3: go pretty far and give you a lot of production

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Speaker 3: with a good team around you. He moves well in

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Speaker 3: the pocket. He knows when to throw the ball away.

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Speaker 3: When he takes risks, they're not huge risks, they're logical.

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Speaker 3: When he throws the ball across his body, it's a

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Speaker 3: logical decision that he really saw. He got better. I

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Speaker 3: don't think the an receivers did him any favors when

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Speaker 3: I watched him, at least in his last year at Auburn,

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Speaker 3: where I thought he was starting to turn a corner,

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Speaker 3: and so I look at him and go, are you

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Speaker 3: going to get you know, potential record breaking years out

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Speaker 3: of this guy? Probably never unless he's loaded with an

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Speaker 3: all star team around him. But is he going to

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Speaker 3: give you top twelve to top fifteen production and maybe

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Speaker 3: in the first inside like top six to top eight

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Speaker 3: if he's on a good team. I think he's capable

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Speaker 3: of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think he's one of the guys that kind of

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Speaker 2: gets the ball out on time, right, He's one of

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Speaker 2: the few guys were the back foot hitting the balls out.

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Speaker 2: You don't see that with a lot of the other guys.

433
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 2: I'm with you, all right, just want one more quarterback thing.

434
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 2: Before we had a couple different positions. Let me make sure

435
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 2: we get to all four of them. Here you have

436
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 2: Daniels is your fourth guide. Not a surprise. Most of

437
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 2: your analysis there, I think is similar. Talk a little

438
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 2: bit about with him and his processing where I think

439
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 2: you see the same thing where maybe he runs a

440
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 2: little bit too early and looks to run before he

441
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,959
Speaker 2: looks to throw. He doesn't get through all his progressions.

442
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 2: And then you have McCarthy at five and you talk

443
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 2: about him as being a guy that was a challenging

444
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 2: evaluation for.

445
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 3: You, absolutely. You know with with Daniels, you know, the

446
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 3: thing about him was you could see on the surface

447
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 3: why people make Lamar Jackson comparisons. Okay, fast, you know,

448
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 3: moves reasonably well in the pocket at times, that big

449
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 3: deep arm where you can throw the ball with a

450
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 3: lot of loft and get the ball out there. I

451
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 3: think he's a little stronger arm than Jackson. I don't

452
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 3: think he has anywhere near the pocket management that Jackson

453
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 3: has and his running ability. He's more likely to run

454
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 3: into a brick wall than make someone miss at this time.

455
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: I agree.

456
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 2: I think he's more of a straight ahead runner than

457
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 2: he is a side to side elusive guy.

458
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 3: For sure. You you would probably say he's more mark.

459
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 3: He's more in the Marcus Mariota archetype, not meaning he's

460
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 3: trying to be as good as Marcus Mariota. Maybe he's

461
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 3: a better prospect than Marcus Mariota, but he's in that

462
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 3: archetype of a straight line runner who maybe doesn't see

463
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 3: the field as clearly as he should at this stage

464
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 3: of his career compared to what Jackson was. I and

465
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 3: the part of that processing is is that he can

466
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,960
Speaker 3: read go to two to three reads in the field

467
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 3: and work across the field. But at some point in

468
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 3: his career, my buddy Chad Ryder at NFL dot com

469
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 3: and I had this conversation recently where it's like, you

470
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 3: wonder if he was told by a coach, look two

471
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 3: reads and run. If it's not open after two reads,

472
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 3: just run.

473
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 2: Which, by the way, when you're that fast, it's not

474
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 2: the worst plan in the world in college football, to

475
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: be honest with.

476
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,359
Speaker 3: You, And it was a good first start year for

477
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 3: Josh Allen because he needed that his first year and

478
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 3: the Bills were patient with him to do it. But

479
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 3: the problem with Daniels is that there are times when

480
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,239
Speaker 3: he has second and third read opportunities where say, like

481
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 3: there's a crossing route going over a certain coverage and zone,

482
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 3: and he should be able to put two and two together,

483
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 3: and that's part of the processing thing. It's two and

484
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 3: two together that this route's gonna break open while I'm

485
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 3: sitting looking into the right flat. If I wait a

486
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,719
Speaker 3: couple more beats with the hitches in my step and

487
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 3: I'm in a wide open pocket, this is gonna come open.

488
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 3: But instead he'll turn just as the route's about to

489
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 3: break open and go to another read and so he

490
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 3: has this kind of tragic comedy timing where he's he

491
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 3: didn't meet, he didn't see or didn't know that that

492
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 3: coverage should be or that route should be breaking open.

493
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 3: So he's done that enough. Dak Prescott had that problem

494
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,719
Speaker 3: early in his career at Mississippi State. So it's not

495
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 3: un you know, it's not unredeemable, but it needs a

496
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 3: little more time. And then McCarthy. The difficult part of

497
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 3: McCarthy is that he's the good stuff is that he

498
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 3: has really great footwork, which gives him a solid foundation

499
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 3: too for pocket movement, drops, curtailing drops, making adjustments, and

500
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 3: being in a position to throw an accurate pass, which

501
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 3: he often does. He's very good in the short and

502
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 3: intermediate game. In the range beyond the intermediate game to

503
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 3: the deep game, I would call it the vertical and

504
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 3: deep game between say twenty eight yards and four and

505
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 3: then plus twenty eight yards plus. You don't see a

506
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 3: lot of throws. Now. Is that because of the offense

507
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 3: he was in partially for sure, But even with the

508
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 3: sample size I saw they weren't accurate.

509
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, very blat right, and there's not a lot of

510
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 2: arc on not a lot of touch and things, say,

511
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 2: and you even saw it. I think at as a

512
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 2: combine workout, whereas deep passes early were sailing out of

513
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 2: bounds towards the sideline.

514
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 3: Exactly, so you had issues with that. And then there's

515
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 3: the processing thing there are I had a quarterback coach

516
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 3: asked me, he Zach Wilson two point oh back in November,

517
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,399
Speaker 3: and I said he could. That sounds strong, right, And

518
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 3: I said, now if you look at it as Zach

519
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 3: Wilson iteration two point oh as in like Apple coming

520
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 3: out with a new iPod, you know, to you know,

521
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 3: two point oh three point zero, then.

522
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: The dating yourself, I am, I still know what iods are.

523
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 3: I know, you know exactly. You know, I'm still look,

524
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 3: I still got a record player in here with DVDs,

525
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 3: so you know that, or I just watch YouTube. But

526
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 3: you know, the thing is is the it's more of

527
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 3: a that where Zach Wilson had only lows in his

528
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 3: processing from what I observed, and with tracking of his

529
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 3: accuracy and pocket movement, they're only lows. The things that

530
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 3: people saw as highs, I saw as that's what any

531
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 3: NFL contract quarterback has to do. That's like the bare

532
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 3: minimum and then what I'm expecting him to do to

533
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 3: be a starter. He had, it's only lows, whereas was

534
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 3: that with JJ McCarthy. There's some loves with processing and

535
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 3: sometimes even pocket moving and especially red zone decision making

536
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 3: and black zone decision making. But there's also some real

537
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 3: highs that you don't see from players who just have lows.

538
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 3: So that's the hard part is that if the deeper

539
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 3: part of the game is there, if he can correct

540
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: the maturity of decision immaturity of decisions he has in

541
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 3: the red zone and backed up in his own area

542
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 3: that played guys like Drew Bisky and Locke and Cutler,

543
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 3: talented guys, and he can process just have more highs

544
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 3: and very and fewer lows in terms of seeing when

545
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 3: to get balls out into tight coverage. He could be something,

546
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 3: But right now he's more to me, like my comp

547
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: for him is in the style of player like Jake Plumber,

548
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 3: where like you could get Pro Bowl Jake Plumber and

549
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 3: with a good team like the Broncos, and he's really

550
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 3: hitting on all cylinders and you see why Bill Walsh

551
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 3: loved him. You know, as a prospect or you could

552
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 3: get Arizona Jake Plumber where he tries to do too

553
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 3: much and he's frenetic and he makes plays that you're

554
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 3: just like, you look so good for like two and

555
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 3: a half quarters and look what you just did.

556
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: You know, I agree.

557
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 2: I think he's probably more volatile than I think people

558
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 2: tend to talk about him. Final file up on the quarterbacks,

559
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 2: not even individual player I found and much like you,

560
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 2: you know, I go through this every year and I

561
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: learn things about quarterbacks and I figure out how to

562
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 2: think about them. One thing that I've I think I

563
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 2: know about NFL quarterbacks. If you want to be successful,

564
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 2: you have to be able to get the ball into

565
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 2: relatively small areas in the middle of the field.

566
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: You cannot live on the perimeter.

567
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 2: You have to be able to have the confidence to

568
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 2: let it go into crowded areas with anticipation and accuracy

569
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 2: to get at the players in the middle of the field.

570
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: That's where you're going to do your damage. Right.

571
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 2: Is that an important thing for you when watching these

572
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 2: college guys. Is that something you think can get improved

573
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 2: on a lot in the pros or is that something

574
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 2: that is kind of ingrained being able to navigate that

575
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: middle of the field mess for lack of a better

576
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 2: term in college in order for that to translate to

577
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 2: the pros, because that's one thing I do think Drake

578
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 2: may is very good at. You look at his heat

579
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 2: map and his targeting locations, like his middle of the

580
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 2: field is bright red, like he just that targets that

581
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,239
Speaker 2: ten to twenty five area mid of the field, and

582
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: he's pretty efficient at it too. So I wonder how

583
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 2: much that goes into your evaluation when you look at

584
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 2: these quarterbacks.

585
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 3: Absolutely, because I charted every game and see the difference

586
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 3: I think I would say between heat map and how

587
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 3: I chart is that heat map still is looking at

588
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 3: completion percentage accuracy and not past placement. And I'm looking

589
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 3: at past placement with a very strict level of definitions,

590
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 3: which is why, Like there are a lot of people

591
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 3: who like Baker Mayfield and said, well, look at his

592
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 3: accurate percentage, look what he did. Look at how and

593
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 3: I said, if you look at what he did against

594
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 3: man to man coverage in the middle of the field,

595
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 3: it was lacking, he was late, he was behind. Maybe

596
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 3: the receivers made catches, but he made them pay unnecessarily.

597
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 3: And then you saw O'Dell Beckham and his Daddy and

598
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 3: how that turned out in Cleveland with Baker because I

599
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 3: you know, you could turn on games like say, University

600
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 3: of Georgia game in the Rose Bowl with Baker Mayfield

601
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 3: and you go ooh, he was like two beats late.

602
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 3: He fit the ball in there, but he made it

603
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 3: such a tougher play. And in the NFL, it's not

604
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 3: going to be one step ahead in coverage. It's going

605
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 3: to be a half a shoulder ahead in coverage. And

606
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 3: that's where the projection part has to come in. Is

607
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: that your overlay, your template or standard of evaluating that

608
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,479
Speaker 3: middle of the field, which you were so dead on

609
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 3: right about and it isn't ingrained thing. Let me, I'll

610
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: mention that in a second. That has to be there.

611
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 3: You have to look at and go, hey, that that

612
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: heat map. A lot of those passes were one to

613
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 3: two steps and it looks tight, but really it third

614
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 3: and fifteen and Jalen Ramsey's on you, you know, and

615
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 3: DeAndre Hopkins is yelling at you because you didn't target

616
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 3: him because he had half a shoulder free. You know.

617
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 3: That's those are the that's the difference between a guy

618
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 3: who gets a chance to start and a guy who

619
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 3: gets a second contract and that's and so with May

620
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 3: That's where I'm concerned about is because a lot of

621
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 3: those throws were technically accurate on the way we look

622
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 3: at completion percentage, but when you chart and say what's

623
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 3: pinpoint and what's general accuracy, like receivers should have made

624
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 3: the effort to catch it even though it was a

625
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 3: harder effort, you know, so that there's a difference there.

626
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 3: But you know, the ingrained part. All of what you

627
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 3: talked about to me is processing. You know, that's how

628
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 3: you study processing. And for me, like Brock Purdy, I

629
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 3: didn't rate him as an All Star, but I had

630
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 3: him as my six rated quarterback who I thought had

631
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 3: a chance to become a potential starter with some time

632
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 3: and work. Well. When you get onto an All Star team,

633
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 3: you get a chance to level up fast because everybody's

634
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 3: doing exactly what they need to do. That doesn't happen

635
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 3: in the NFL at that level. So it's like playing

636
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 3: with great jazz musicians and you're an aspiring jazz musician.

637
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,720
Speaker 3: You're going to sound better because everything that you're you're

638
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 3: told is supposed to happen. You don't have to overthink

639
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 3: about it's already happening, and it reinforces good habits. So

640
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 3: with the problem with processing is that in this middle

641
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 3: of the field reading is that it's like being a

642
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 3: musician who has ingrained the wrong habits for so long

643
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 3: that you have to strip it all down and build

644
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 3: it back up. And in the NFL, they're not developing you.

645
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 3: The NFL they've all we all know this now we

646
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 3: should all know this is that they're coaching to scheme,

647
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 3: they're coaching for game plan, and it takes a lot

648
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 3: of time, and they expect you to do that development

649
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 3: on your own. Maybe position coaches will say, hey man,

650
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 3: you need to work on this stuff. You got to

651
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 3: get better on this. They're not. They may want you

652
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 3: in a direction of a coach if you don't already

653
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 3: have one, which most of them do, and they may

654
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 3: even suggest some things, but more often than not, they're like, look,

655
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,479
Speaker 3: I expect you to be able to do this stuff.

656
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 3: Get better, figure it out, do it right. And that's

657
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 3: what's you know. And a lot of these position coaches,

658
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 3: as good as they are and as good as they become,

659
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 3: they weren't quarterbacks. Maybe they were defensive ends, maybe they

660
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 3: were a quality control coach in a different area. So

661
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 3: it's hard to it's hard to learn and relearn processing

662
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: in the same way it's hard to unlearn and relearn

663
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 3: stepping up in the pocket. If you've been hit in

664
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 3: the face by three hundred and twenty five pounders so

665
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 3: many times, it would be like putting your hand in

666
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 3: a window. If you get hit a couple times, you know,

667
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 3: working as a contract in the window slams down on

668
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 3: your hand and you bust your hand. If it happens

669
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 3: once a month, you're probably like a little wary, but

670
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 3: you're okay with sticking your hand in a window sill.

671
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 3: But if you got kidnapped by some sadistic person and

672
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 3: they put your hand in the window and they slammed

673
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 3: it over and over again, like over a period of hours,

674
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 3: and like crush your hand, you know you're gonna beat

675
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 3: David Carr and you're gonna put your When you put

676
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: try to put your head in a window, you're gonna

677
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 3: be unconsciously like shaking and quivering, even if you've got

678
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 3: the courage to do it. And that's the difference between

679
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 3: ingrained and behaviors that are hard to learn.

680
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 2: I wonder what that's what it's been like playing behind

681
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 2: the Giants offensive line for the last ten years. The

682
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: Two Sins, One Up podcast is brought to you by Citizens,

683
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 2: the official bank of the Giants from game data. Every day,

684
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 2: Citizens is made ready for Giants fans with insights, guidance,

685
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 2: and solutions. Learn more at citizens bank dot com. All right, Matt,

686
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 2: let's move over to the running back position. Actually, let's

687
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 2: do wide receiver first. I think Giant fans are into that,

688
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:31,479
Speaker 2: and we're gonna go along today.

689
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: Folks. I'm just warning you, so I.

690
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 2: Hope you have a long run or a lot of

691
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 2: chores around the house, because we've got stuff to get

692
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: to here. You have neighbors the Dunesay and Harrison. As

693
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 2: you're one through three in that order. You have them

694
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 2: all is ninety plus grays in your book, which is

695
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 2: they're gonna be star players. So I don't even always

696
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 2: a lot of time on those guys because you all

697
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 2: know they're they're great in their own way.

698
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: Let's let's skip them.

699
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: Xavier Worthy at four and I love the fact that

700
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,959
Speaker 2: you have him there, but you don't have him there

701
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: because of his forty time. Why do you like Xavier

702
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 2: Worthy so much as you do you think a guy

703
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 2: that could be a number one star wide receiver.

704
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 3: In the league because he's more than just a straight

705
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 3: line route runner who just gets open off play action

706
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 3: and behind people like he's he's what the Giant said, Hey,

707
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: this is why we think Jalen Hilot's more than just

708
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 3: a deep threat. We think or he can become more

709
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 3: than a deep threat. Maybe that's the better way to

710
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 3: phrase that. I think Xavier Worthy already is more than

711
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 3: a deep threat. He runs routes in the middle of

712
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 3: the field that are worthwhile. He can create separation, and

713
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,359
Speaker 3: he can make the tough plays in tight coverage and

714
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 3: get pingpong by defenders in the middle of the field

715
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 3: where he bounces off the linebacker into a safety on

716
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 3: a tight window throw and makes the catches. Now you're

717
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 3: going to hear about how he fights the ball, and

718
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 3: he does sometimes. He sometimes has some little little juggles

719
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 3: when he fights the ball in some situations. But he

720
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 3: has far more catches than drops. He has far more

721
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 3: instances of displaying strong tech technique, and the lapses he has,

722
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,439
Speaker 3: I think are small enough that you can deal with

723
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 3: in this I mean, look, Brandon Marshall dropped a lot

724
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 3: of balls. He ran good routes. He was tough and

725
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 3: and or a Courtland Sutton even is that guy that

726
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 3: you know it's like feed me and you know that

727
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 3: I'm I'm gonna eventually get it to you. You know,

728
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 3: I think Xavier Worthy's better than even that he and

729
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 3: so when I look at his game overall, he's more

730
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 3: in that archetype of an Isaac Bruce or a DeShawn Jackson.

731
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 3: Small but fast, tough, doesn't can can protect himself, but

732
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 3: when he has to take a hit, he's he can

733
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 3: make the play. And he's not just an outside boundary

734
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 3: guy you know who runs behind you. He can do

735
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 3: the back shoulder work. He times his positions well. You

736
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 3: can be big and not time your position well and

737
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 3: get good position. You look at Colin Johnson, New York Giant.

738
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 3: One of the things that I would if if I

739
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 3: were good enough to be a wide receiver coach on

740
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 3: this level and I had Colin Johnson as a client,

741
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 3: I'd say, listen, Colin, you've got this great size. You've

742
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 3: got to work on timing your your extensions to the ball,

743
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 3: because when you position yourself, you need to go straight

744
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 3: up and down. So that you use that height and

745
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 3: length to catch the ball at the highest point and

746
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 3: your back is to the defender. What you do is

747
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 3: you do this unbelievably impressive swan dive reverse swan dive

748
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 3: where you're leaning backwards and you're extending way behind you

749
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 3: at the late window to catch it, which is unbelievably

750
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 3: impressive physically, but you've opened your chest and whole catch

751
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 3: area to the opponent unnecessarily, and you also have no

752
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 3: control to land and get in bounds. And that was

753
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,439
Speaker 3: the you know, that's what he did at Texas Xavier Worth.

754
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 3: He doesn't do that, so yeah, he's you know, he's

755
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 3: definitely up there.

756
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: All right.

757
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,479
Speaker 2: You got Brian Thomas at five, key on Coleman at six. Again,

758
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: I think that that's fairly common, so we won't spend

759
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 2: a ton of time on those guys.

760
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: I love Roockie Piersoll at seven.

761
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: We have not talked about him above on these podcasts,

762
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: and boy I watched I haven't dug into his tape

763
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: deeply yet, but I watched him down at the Senior

764
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 2: Bowl and no one can cover the guy route, running speed, hands,

765
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 2: very natural catching the football. Why do you have him

766
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 2: at seven? Which I think is probably a little bit

767
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 2: higher than what a lot of other people do.

768
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 3: In addition to all those things that you mentioned, and

769
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 3: to a high degree, that's probably the meat of it

770
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 3: right there, because he can release against man, he can

771
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 3: work against oone, he can play outside and inside. And

772
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 3: when you know, I was high on Anthony Richardson, he

773
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 3: was my QB one, CJ. Stroub, I think QB two.

774
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 3: And when you look at those guys, Anthony Richardson I

775
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 3: always said, was a better processor of information than people

776
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 3: gave him credit for. I think Ballard Chris Ballard pretty

777
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 3: much validated that that they were surprised at how good

778
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 3: of a processor he was compared to what the consensus

779
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 3: was saying. And he was so good in the pocket,

780
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 3: staying in the pocket to make plays well. The guy

781
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 3: who worked with him off structure or for second reads

782
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 3: or route adjustments that he was his go to guy

783
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 3: was Ricky Pearsall. I would love to see Ricky Pearsol

784
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 3: reunited with Anthony Richardson just for that reason because they

785
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 3: have such a rapport. But he can win deep, he

786
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 3: can win over the middle, He can win as a

787
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 3: fly sweep guy, or you know as an aerial artistry

788
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 3: that I would joke and this is is a little twisted,

789
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 3: but I think you've heard enough of me now to

790
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 3: know that I probably am and know what I do,

791
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 3: so you know, we'll have a good laugh about it. Right.

792
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 3: So the thing is is I used to joke that,

793
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 3: like if I won the power Ball, that I would

794
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 3: probably like and I just decided to drop out of

795
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 3: society and I could buy an island for instance. You know,

796
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 3: I would buy an island, and I would dedicate my

797
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 3: life's work to holding an aerial catch invitational kind of

798
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 3: like the NFL's version of the slam Dunk Contest and

799
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 3: have them be covered by guys and that brand. It

800
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 3: would be called the Brandon Lloyd Arial in Vitational, because

801
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 3: I thought Brandon Lloyd, while he had a very up

802
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 3: and down career, had this like was maybe God's gift

803
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 3: to aerial catching, you know, so and you know, give

804
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 3: him an opportunity to like give him some props, you know.

805
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 3: But like, yeah, I think Ricky Piersall would be like

806
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 3: one of the top three candidates this year to win

807
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 3: the Brandon Lloyd Aerial Invitation sponsored by the RSP on

808
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 3: my deserted Island.

809
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 1: All right, then, how about Jermaine Burton.

810
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: We know he has some off the field stuff that

811
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 2: that that's not part of your equation, But why do

812
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 2: you think he's being underrated as a receiver for an

813
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 2: Alabama program who's passing him? Really didn't take off until

814
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 2: the second half of the year this season.

815
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 3: That's one of the reasons is that people do look

816
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 3: at the look at the stats, and they look at

817
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 3: the production and they have production models and sometimes people

818
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 3: but they don't see the production model as a layer.

819
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 3: They see it as the answer. You know, just in

820
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 3: the same way that there was an NFC team, your rival,

821
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 3: your one of your art rivals that basically thought, oh,

822
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 3: we should just get six two, two hundred and ten

823
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 3: pound receivers because they're productive. This was back in the

824
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 3: des Bryant days towards the end of that, and say

825
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 3: that should be our disqualifier. Anybody under six to two,

826
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 3: anybody like Steve Smith, Odell Beckham, Junior, Tyreek Hill, Yep,

827
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 3: forget about them. Let's not even look at them. We're

828
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 3: just only going to look at six two, two hundred

829
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 3: and ten pound receivers. And they are NFL teams that

830
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 3: use that type of a model. So when you look

831
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 3: at Burden, they may look at production models and go ooh,

832
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 3: this particular year didn't work out well, and we're a

833
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 3: little bit further down on him. But he's a Robert

834
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 3: Woods type of quiet assassin player in the sense of

835
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 3: he can play all three positions. He can earn position

836
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 3: against the boundary, he can work the middle, he has

837
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 3: nuanced with his running, has enough speed to be that

838
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 3: outside threat, but also enough toughness to win in tight coverage.

839
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 3: And he is nasty as a player, and you like

840
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 3: that as a layer on top everything. I'm not going

841
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 3: to just look for nasty players, because there are a

842
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 3: lot of bad, nasty players, but you know, that's that's

843
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 3: you know. But I'm gonna but when I look at

844
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 3: players and they do all the technical things well, and

845
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 3: they conceptually understand all three roles and could perform them,

846
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 3: and on top of it, they're a dog when they

847
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 3: block people, and they have a bit of an attitude

848
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 3: and they but they don't make mistakes as a result

849
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 3: of that too often, then I'm like, yeah, I want

850
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 3: that guy. I want Steve Smith's on my team all

851
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 3: day long, you know. And if Jermaine Burton's got a

852
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 3: little bit of Steve Smith in him. That's good.

853
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, all right, one guy that I gotta

854
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: be honest with you, Matt, I have not watched him yet.

855
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 2: I've watched probably twenty wide receivers in this draft last

856
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 2: and watched them in great detail. A Nia Smith, you

857
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 2: have him ranked as your eleventh wide receiver. Tell me

858
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 2: about him.

859
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 3: Yeah. He came to Texas a and m as a

860
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 3: running bat okay, and he was split in time with

861
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 3: Isaiah Spiller. The Chargers draft pick more of an outside runner,

862
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 3: more of a DeAndre Swift type. Like, you know, you

863
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 3: don't want him running inside zone or making zone decisions.

864
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 3: You want him just like here's the whole meet. Just

865
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 3: hit it fast, you know, and let's get you into

866
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 3: space as quick as possible. He was kind of that guy.

867
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 3: So they made him a wide receiver, and if you

868
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 3: didn't know he was a running back, you would have

869
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 3: thought he was a top prospect as a wide receiver.

870
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 3: The way he runs routes and the way he catches

871
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 3: the football. Sharp breaks good setups with good control of

872
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 3: his pacing to really bait defenders efficiently, makes tough catches high, low,

873
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 3: away from his frame, tight hands technique, not clap attacking

874
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 3: targets so that they recoil off of his hand and

875
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:44,959
Speaker 3: he has to fight the ball or they go through it.

876
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 3: It's solid in his hands and all forms of ways

877
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 3: takes contact. And then in the open field he looks

878
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 3: like a running back. You know who that was back

879
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 3: in the day, Golden Tate at Notre Dame, when he

880
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,720
Speaker 3: was a running back. And then he became a receiver

881
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 3: and then slowly developed into really one of the better

882
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 3: slot receivers who could also play outside and get deep

883
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 3: as a flanker. And he had some peak years in

884
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 3: Detroit and in New York. And you guys know exactly

885
00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 3: what that is his problem and why he might fall

886
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 3: out of the draft is that he got nacyl there

887
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 3: two years ago. He looks fully recovered from that, looks great,

888
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 3: But he also got busted for a DWY and in

889
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 3: the same bust for possession of marijuana and a firearm charge.

890
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 1: And that's not the best.

891
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 3: The firearm charge. I look at that and say, just

892
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 3: get a license. You can get a license. Get a

893
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 3: license in Texas, especially exactly especially in Texas. So whether

894
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 3: you agree with guns or not, it's legal in Texas.

895
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 3: He should have been able to get them. It's the

896
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,759
Speaker 3: d WI that was the big deal. And so if

897
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 3: he's grown up shown the ability shown on all accounts

898
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:56,879
Speaker 3: through really good interviewing to know and background checks that

899
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 3: he's gotten he's matured, then he may get drafted or

900
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 3: he'll at least be given a good contract as a

901
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 3: UDFA and could grow from there.

902
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 4: You're ready for a change. Pay Day comes early with citizens,

903
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 4: so go to that retreat. Knew you moves to the country.

904
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 4: Now you're raising goats and launching a lifestyle brand. Are

905
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 4: you ready for all that life brings?

906
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:22,439
Speaker 2: All Right, two guys I want to touch on before

907
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 2: we hit the running backs and tight ends here. Not

908
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 2: as high on Ady Mitchell, who I love, is a

909
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 2: tools guy who, as I maturing to do, I think

910
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 2: in terms of the art of playing the receiver. And

911
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 2: by the way, I should point out that you probably

912
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 2: have up to fifteen guys that you think are plug

913
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 2: and play starters in the shraft. You are in the

914
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 2: consensus that this is a really good wide receiver class.

915
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 2: So you have Mitchell and Roman Wilson I believe is

916
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 2: right below that that tier.

917
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: If I'm not mistaken.

918
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 2: Why maybe are you not on high as those two

919
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 2: guys as some other people are?

920
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 3: Sure? When I look at ad Mitchell, you know, is

921
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 3: that I see him more as that good vertical receiver

922
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 3: who could eventually become a productive secondary starter in the NFL,

923
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 3: that number two receivernumber three in base three receiver sets.

924
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,879
Speaker 3: But his short and intermediate route game needs work. And

925
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 3: that's the area where the different you know, in a

926
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 3: different class, you know, with his grade, I mean, I

927
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 3: still have him as a plug and play starter. I

928
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 3: mean like he'd be he'd be top five in a

929
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 3: lot of classes.

930
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:20,360
Speaker 1: You know, great class.

931
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an amazing class. And now I always tell everybody, Look,

932
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 3: if I tell you there's eighteen receivers that could plug

933
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 3: and play start, you got to divide that number by

934
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:33,399
Speaker 3: the fudge factor of injury, maturity, bad fit, and you're

935
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 3: probably gonna get four players out of that, you know,

936
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 3: three probably really, So he has to refine his release

937
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 3: packages against man and man coverage, but he doesn't. He

938
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 3: doesn't apply counters as strongly as he needs to. The

939
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 3: footwork doesn't attack the leverage of opponent deep enough to

940
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 3: sell the effectiveness of the counters like he performs the

941
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,919
Speaker 3: move right now, but the artistry of the move isn't

942
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 3: NFL quality yet just yet. So he's gonna get He's

943
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 3: gonna get that root wakening to go. Oh, you mean

944
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 3: like I've got to use pacing. I mean I've got

945
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 3: to attack deeper into the man, like I got to

946
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,479
Speaker 3: really get into the man's body to sell this move.

947
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,839
Speaker 3: You know, he bits, he uses speed very well and

948
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 3: baits them, but you know, his brakes just need to

949
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,879
Speaker 3: get better. And the way he employs his attack. There's

950
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 3: a lot of jump through balls that look impressive where

951
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 3: he jumps up to catch them, like Colin Johnston can

952
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 3: jump up and catch. But I talked about him leaning backwards.

953
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,799
Speaker 3: The problem with Adie Mitchell isn't that it said he's

954
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,640
Speaker 3: using underhand attack on a ball. He should have high

955
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 3: pointed early. And when you put your hands here and

956
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 3: you're jumping above a man in front of you, you're

957
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,680
Speaker 3: giving that man a chance to defend the ball, whereas

958
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 3: you're giving the man no chance when you have your

959
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 3: hands over your head. Things like that got to get better.

960
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 3: Roman Wilson, same thing. He's that guy who like knows

961
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 3: all the techniques he has a lot of them in

962
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 3: his toolbox, but has no conceptual idea of when to

963
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 3: apply them based on the coverage and the artistry in

964
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 3: which to sell them effectively. He's like talking monotone. You know.

965
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 3: He sounds like Tom Shane and those old Jewelie commercials

966
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 3: where he's like, I'm.

967
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: Tom Shane and ben Stein, right, yeah.

968
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 3: Ben Stein, that kind of stuff. You know, sometimes me

969
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 3: when I'm tired. But it's like that is that kind

970
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 3: of thing where it's just monotone and defenders. It's going

971
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 3: to be predictable, and so he's got to work on

972
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 3: that so that he can get open against man. Against zone,

973
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 3: he can help out right now, but against zone against man,

974
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 3: he's not a matchup receiver, and matchup receivers are starters.

975
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: Giants fans love a winner.

976
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 2: It's why they love Citizens, named a twenty twenty two

977
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 2: Best Bank in the US by the Banker as the

978
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 2: official bank of the Giants and sponsor of the Huddle,

979
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 2: Citizens is made ready for fans of Big Blue Learn

980
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 2: War Citizens Bank dot Com. All right, looking at your

981
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 2: running back papsules here. I believe Brooks out of Texas

982
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: is your only guy that you think is kind of

983
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 2: a full time plug and play running back, and then

984
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 2: you have a group of about I don't know ten

985
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: or twelve that are, you know, play a role as

986
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 2: a rotation starter, which is what I read on the

987
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,000
Speaker 2: classes too. So let's start with some of these guys

988
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 2: that we haven't talked about a ton here. You like

989
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 2: Dylan Johnson a lot out of Washington. I watch him

990
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 2: and I'm not sure if I see enough juice and

991
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 2: explosive ability, but you seem to think that there's a

992
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 2: role for him. Why do you like doing Johnson out

993
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 2: of Washington?

994
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'm a sucker for guys like that, like

995
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:27,240
Speaker 3: the Spencer wears Peyton Barbers, hard running guys who who

996
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 3: are smart and versatile in terms of blocking schemes. They

997
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 3: can really manipulate most blocking schemes very well and pass protect,

998
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 3: but maybe they lack a top gear. I think his

999
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 3: acceleration is fine to get into the second level. And

1000
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 3: he did play hurt all year, so I mean with

1001
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 3: leg injuries were pretty tough. He was getting acupuncture pretty

1002
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 3: much every couple times a week every week since the

1003
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:54,680
Speaker 3: middle of the season, and he played well. He breaks

1004
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:58,759
Speaker 3: a lot of tackles and he's efficient in how he

1005
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 3: had in his movement. I expect him to be a

1006
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 3: late round pick at best, maybe a UDFA. But what

1007
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 3: I expect is that he will wind up in pressing

1008
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 3: in camp because he'll be fully healthy, and I'll go,

1009
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 3: this guy's got a little bit more popp to his

1010
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 3: game than I expected. Kind of like how Chris Brooks

1011
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 3: I had rated number ten last year and he went

1012
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 3: to the Dolphins and you watch him in mop up

1013
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 3: duty against the Broncos and you're like, that guy's pretty good,

1014
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 3: you know. Or a nice say at Pacheco, who I

1015
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 3: had rated higher than most and Pete, you know, and

1016
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 3: he didn't have He was fast, but you know, I

1017
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 3: was like, you did not you don't understand. Like he

1018
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 3: played behind a Rutgers line that was like that. You know,

1019
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 3: you're running gap plays and you're beating your center to

1020
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 3: just to the line of scrimmage. You know, when that's happening,

1021
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 3: you're not having success because gap plays there's only one

1022
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 3: hole and if the and if your lead locker can't

1023
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 3: even get there on time, you're going to have to create.

1024
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 3: So when he gets the NFL, it's actually going to

1025
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 3: be easier for him he's going to be like, wait

1026
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 3: a minute, you mean the hole's there. I don't have

1027
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,640
Speaker 3: to do anything weird to get there. So I think

1028
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 3: that Dylan Johnson's one of those players that you're going

1029
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 3: to go, oh, he was. He was working with anvils

1030
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 3: around his ankles for like, you know, for most of

1031
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 3: the season.

1032
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 2: And then the other guy that you really like is

1033
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 2: Kamani Vidal, who I watched at one of the All

1034
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 2: Star Games at of Troy. He is your one, two, three,

1035
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 2: sixth ranked running back.

1036
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 3: Tell me why because he Because there's backs who may

1037
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 3: have more draft capital cred because they went to bigger schools.

1038
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 3: They're bigger, they're stronger, or they're faster, but they don't

1039
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 3: have the big, strong, fast package that he has in

1040
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 3: addition to the fact that he's also a good decision

1041
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,600
Speaker 3: maker and he's a heck of a pass protector. In

1042
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 3: addition to that, he's fast, and when you watch him play,

1043
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 3: he's got a pretty complete game. I would joke that,

1044
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 3: you know, when people were all excited about DeAndre Swift

1045
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:57,320
Speaker 3: at Detroit because he was highly productive, they're seeing a

1046
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 3: space player. We already talked about how he's a space

1047
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 3: player who if he's on a great team with a

1048
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 3: great running quarterback. You can create box advantages for him.

1049
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 3: But he's not a complete running back, you know, in

1050
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 3: that level. But people thought he was for a time.

1051
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 3: Fans did at least. I think they were looking at

1052
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 3: DeAndre Swift and what they were actually seeing was the

1053
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:20,879
Speaker 3: future of Hamani Beadal. If he lands in a good

1054
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 3: opportunity and gets to work his way into that opportunity

1055
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 3: and show what he can do, he's a savvier DeAndre Swift,

1056
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:29,280
Speaker 3: who's more complete.

1057
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 2: Okay, I love the fact that you will Shipley at seven.

1058
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 2: By the way, I think he's being overlooked. I think

1059
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 2: he's a really fun player. But we've talked about him

1060
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 2: a lot. Blake Watson out of Memphis if someone that

1061
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 2: we have not discussed a ton on these shows. So

1062
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 2: I think he just ran a four to fourdis pro

1063
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 2: day the other day.

1064
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 3: You're a big fan, absolutely, you know, and he's you know,

1065
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 3: Dylan Shipley or excuse me, Will Shipley, Dylan Lobby, and

1066
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 3: Lake Watson are all kind of in the same grouping

1067
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 3: for me, and I would say Shipley's the best overall

1068
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 3: route runner. He's the best at positioning himself on deep

1069
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 3: routes and probably the better inside runner and a very

1070
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 3: dynamic mover. Blake Watson to me, has the best hands

1071
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 3: of the three, like the hand eye coordination, and I

1072
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 3: think he's the best runner of the three in terms

1073
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 3: of working between the tackles and also explosion in the

1074
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,600
Speaker 3: open field. And he's he has good contact balance for

1075
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 3: his size. He kind of reminds me of a guy

1076
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 3: that I thought was about eight years ahead of his

1077
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:33,400
Speaker 3: time for the league, and that was Geo Bernard. If

1078
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 3: ju Bernard played for the Chargers eight years later than

1079
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 3: he did, he'd be Austin Eckler. I think he'd even

1080
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 3: be arguably a better Austin Eckler. But the Bengals were like,

1081
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 3: we want a big back and we're just gonna let

1082
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 3: you do what we need you to do, and you'll

1083
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 3: do you'll help us out when our big back gets injured.

1084
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 3: But Blake Watson could be a Geo Bernard type of player.

1085
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 3: At worst, he's a better version of what we saw

1086
00:53:58,320 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 3: from Chase Edmonds.

1087
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 2: Awesome, all right, two guys that I really like. I'm

1088
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 2: a big Ray Davis guy, and I know he's right

1089
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 2: in your second tier. I just think he does everything

1090
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,479
Speaker 2: pretty well. I think he's just a really solid player.

1091
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 2: I want to get your take on him. Why maybe

1092
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 2: he wasn't a little bit higher and then you have

1093
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 2: more Sean Lloyd a little bit lower.

1094
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 1: On your list. Is that just a ball security thing?

1095
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 1: Why he's down towards.

1096
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 3: The big biggest reason for ball security. If it gets better,

1097
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 3: and it could, it's just an unpredictable thing. We don't

1098
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 3: know whether it's David Wilson or Tiki Barber and it

1099
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 3: gets better or whether it's Stevan Ridley and it stays

1100
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 3: bad and gets worse for Sony Michelle. And it was

1101
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 3: awful that Georgia not a problem in New England. So

1102
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,840
Speaker 3: if it gets better, he might have been one of

1103
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 3: my top three running backs. And I pretty much state

1104
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,840
Speaker 3: that in my scott In report. He has some immaturity

1105
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 3: with bouncing plays outside. He shouldn't butt. A lot of

1106
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,279
Speaker 3: backs do that with some of his visions. Sometimes can

1107
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 3: be a little little hero. I got to make a

1108
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 3: playball type of thing that can grow. People can grow

1109
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 3: out of, but sometimes they don't either. So two unpredictable things.

1110
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 3: And then the other guy that Ray Davis. Oh yeah,

1111
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 3: Ray Davis is fun man.

1112
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 1: He's fun to watch. I think he's my third running back.

1113
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 2: I just think I don't know if he's ever going

1114
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 2: to be a star, but if he's your Starughter, you're

1115
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 2: gonna get good, solid play from him for sixteen games.

1116
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 3: Without a doubt. And I think you know his score

1117
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:20,319
Speaker 3: for me is a rotational contributor, like to me, think

1118
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 3: Travis Henry. If you guys remember Travis Henry, you know

1119
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,240
Speaker 3: he runs like that. He's just not as big as Travis.

1120
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:28,959
Speaker 3: He runs like he's two twenty, but he's really only

1121
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 3: in the mid to two hundreds, you know, like two

1122
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:34,839
Speaker 3: O five, two o six, I think maybe two ten.

1123
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 3: But his pass catching is okay. It's like a checkdown player,

1124
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:43,760
Speaker 3: leak receiver. The past pro needs work. That's where he's

1125
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 3: really like, that's what limited him. If his pass pro

1126
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 3: were better, he would be up there, probably among my

1127
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 3: top five guys. That's why the margin of error is

1128
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,719
Speaker 3: so small between my third guy and my twelfth guy.

1129
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 3: It's those one to two things, and oftentimes it's pass

1130
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 3: pro where he just misses guys or miss reads certain

1131
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 3: blitz types that it's gonna cost him a year to

1132
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 3: get on the field because if he doesn't improve it

1133
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 3: quickly and really get it, he's only going to be

1134
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 3: a situational guy at best, and it's gonna be one

1135
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,359
Speaker 3: of those situational guys where it's like you're gonna get

1136
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 3: three touches or three snaps or five snaps in this game,

1137
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 3: as opposed to we're gonna make sure you get eight

1138
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 3: to ten touches in the game, which is where eventually

1139
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 3: I think he'll at least be all.

1140
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 2: Right, let's jump the tight ends here. You love brock Bauer,

1141
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 2: so does everybody, so we can move on from that.

1142
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 2: He's awesome Beyond that. I don't know if you had

1143
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:41,879
Speaker 2: another guy with a starter grade in your tight end group,

1144
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 2: but I didn't look where Bensonatt was for you. But

1145
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,919
Speaker 2: I love myself some Bensonatt. I'm a big fan. He's

1146
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 2: your number two tight end that was thrilled to see it.

1147
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 2: So you can join me on the soapbox. Tell the

1148
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:53,240
Speaker 2: folks why Ben Sonad is awesome.

1149
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 3: He okay. You know if you're when you were a

1150
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 3: kid and you saw a heavy bag for the first time,

1151
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 3: you know, maybe in your uncle's garage or in the basement,

1152
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:07,359
Speaker 3: you know, and you hit it for the first time

1153
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 3: you thought it was going to be soft. It has

1154
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 3: a little give right, but then you felt like you

1155
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:13,800
Speaker 3: broke your wrist because you didn't know how to punch

1156
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 3: right now, Bensona, when he runs the way tacklers hit him,

1157
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 3: he looks like they bounced off a heavy bag, like

1158
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 3: they just rammed into it and went, oh man, there's

1159
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,920
Speaker 3: like an iron core inside this thing. He's packed tightly

1160
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 3: that way. He's also very agile and can leap over you,

1161
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 3: bounce off multiple hits and through run through wraps and

1162
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 3: carry you downfield. He gives you a little bit of

1163
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 3: that Mark Bivarro brought a vibe back in the day,

1164
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 3: and I'm in the right I'm in the right place.

1165
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 3: Like in terms of running the football, he's not as

1166
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 3: big as Bavarro probably was relative to the size of

1167
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 3: tight ends from now until then. He's more of a

1168
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 3: moved tight end. But he's a good route runner, very

1169
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:59,240
Speaker 3: precise with his turn so he can make sharp breaks.

1170
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 3: He's got a little nap with his turns, so that

1171
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 3: that's important for underneath routes, so because that you're going

1172
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 3: to be covered tightly, you know. He catches the ball

1173
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 3: with very strong technique on top of that, so he

1174
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 3: can get he can work those intermediate seams. He can

1175
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 3: work a little bit outside on you too with his

1176
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 3: release works. But he can also be that guy that

1177
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 3: you can line up in line, get a ball too

1178
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 3: over the middle and he's going to get more yards

1179
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 3: for you than what the quarterback completed. And overall, I

1180
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 3: love this guy and the balance is just great. He's

1181
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 3: like watch him and like against Iowa State and Kansas

1182
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 3: on YouTube. You can go there if you want to.

1183
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 3: I mean I have other I got all twenty two tape,

1184
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 3: but if you want to see like highlights, that's what

1185
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 3: I'm recommending you can go there. And he looks like

1186
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 3: a snowplow, I mean, like these games in bad weather

1187
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 3: and he literally looks unaffected the way that he moves

1188
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 3: in those things and people slipping and sliding all over

1189
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 3: the place. So that's a fun little tidbit too with him.

1190
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,959
Speaker 2: All right, final question, you have Stover at three among

1191
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 2: your tight as inducat and Sander's all the way down

1192
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:03,919
Speaker 2: at number four. Just take us those those three guys,

1193
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 2: and why maybe Sanders is a little bit low on

1194
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 2: your listen to some other people.

1195
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, Sanders Sanders needs to work on his breaks because

1196
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 3: he's going to be relied upon as or seen as

1197
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 3: a potential matchup receiver against Manda Man coverage. So its breaks.

1198
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 3: The physical ability to do it's there, The technical ability

1199
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:22,960
Speaker 3: to do it consistently at the right moment time in

1200
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 3: depth is not at this stage. He is a great

1201
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 3: pass catcher, he tracks the ball very well, and he's

1202
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 3: a good runner after the catch. So he's still a

1203
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 3: guy I think that could contribute early. He's just not

1204
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 3: as high as to know. And then you know, looking

1205
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 3: at who is the other guy you just mentioned? Stover? Yeah,

1206
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 3: oh god, I like Stover. Stover is like, you know,

1207
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:48,479
Speaker 3: we always joke around. You always hear people joke around

1208
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 3: in commentary and games where it's like the linebacker, the

1209
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 3: defensive back drops interception. You go, well, that's why they

1210
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 3: play defense. You know. Well, when you watch Ben Stover

1211
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 3: or eXeem Kaid Stover and you watch him catch a football,

1212
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 3: you go, that's why they moved him to tight end,

1213
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 3: because that dude catches a ball like a veteran. I mean,

1214
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,360
Speaker 3: I see so many guys at this level. It's hard.

1215
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:12,800
Speaker 3: You know, when you watch kids, kids catch a ball

1216
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 3: for the first time. They're toddlers and you throw the

1217
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 3: big bouncy ball at him and they clap their hands

1218
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:22,400
Speaker 3: exaggerated like, and it goes off their head. There's like

1219
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 3: a face. There's like a Twitter meme for that, you know,

1220
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 3: an X meme for that.

1221
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: I have a six year old and a one year

1222
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 1: old at home. I know exactly, you.

1223
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:33,040
Speaker 3: Know exactly well. Courtland Sutton still does that sometimes as

1224
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 3: much as I pick on him, Okay, and it's hard

1225
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 3: to do, but I'll give him credit. It's hard to

1226
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 3: do as a hot when you're high pointing a ball

1227
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:44,960
Speaker 3: and you're in tight coverage and having to leap and

1228
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 3: you got to get your hands up. It's hard sometimes

1229
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 3: to stop your momentum and get your hands up straight

1230
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 3: and tight. You got to bring them up, and you

1231
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,880
Speaker 3: bring them up. Why if the timing's not perfect, you're

1232
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 3: gonna clap onto the ball or completely miss it, especially

1233
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 3: if you're working a dig route or over right across

1234
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 3: the middle of the ball is high. It's that's really

1235
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 3: hard to get the hands tight like that. Kate Stover

1236
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,959
Speaker 3: does it. He does it consistently, Like I don't see

1237
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 3: targets where he clap attacks very often his hands are

1238
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:15,640
Speaker 3: so tight and they're in difficult situations where he's extending

1239
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:19,560
Speaker 3: early to the ball. He's always almost He often seems

1240
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 3: to be like extending to the earliest point to attack

1241
01:01:22,080 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 3: the ball. So when you do that and have good

1242
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 3: technique and it hits your fingertips, you get a soft

1243
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 3: recoil if you don't get it immediately, and that soft

1244
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 3: recoil leads to good second chance opportunities. If it hits

1245
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 3: your palms, it's like hitting the broadside of a pump

1246
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 3: of Just take a football and throw it up against

1247
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:40,919
Speaker 3: a wall, and that's what happens. When a ball hits

1248
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 3: your palms, You're going to get a violent recoil like

1249
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 3: a knuckleball, and it's very hard to catch. And Kate

1250
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 3: Stover eliminates allowed his opportunities and he's niffy expecting the

1251
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 3: open field. This dude's gonna be I think, a more

1252
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 3: dynamic version of Hunter Henry when he gets it all together.

1253
01:01:57,480 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 3: I like it.

1254
01:01:58,080 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 1: Matt.

1255
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 2: Before we say goodbye one more time, till the folks

1256
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 2: where you can where they can find the scouting RSP.

1257
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. Matt Waldman's rookie skoyting portfolio is at Matt Waldman

1258
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 3: dot com. You can order it there. It's downloadable in

1259
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 3: PDF format, fully bookedmarked, choose your own adventure. You'll be

1260
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 3: pleasantly shocked.

1261
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 2: And you'll you'll get through the almost twelve hundred pages quickly.

1262
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 2: A lot of them are charts and lists and stuff,

1263
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 2: so don't be it to Matt. Matt made this point earlier.

1264
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 2: Don't be that intimidated by it is very accessible and

1265
01:02:25,240 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 2: if you're a fantasy football player, by the way it is,

1266
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 2: it is a great resource as well, so make sure

1267
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 2: you guys go check that out for Matt Walbant i'

1268
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 2: Josh Bulk thanks for joining us on the Johnson the

1269
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 2: Podcast brought to you by Citizens, the official bank of

1270
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:35,400
Speaker 2: the Giants.

1271
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 1: See you next time, everybody,