WEBVTT - Picking Up The Pieces 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:18.920 Hey, it's me Jenny Garth, one of your hosts here 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:22.400 at I Do Part two. We were talking with doctor 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:25.400 Hillary and there was just so much more that I 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:29.600 need to ask her, So let's jump back into that conversation. 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:32.720 The hardest part for me was the kids of it 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:36.479 all and just that enormous guilt that I was ruining 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:42.080 their lives forever. And it was really really hard for me. 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:44.520 And I can remember the only thing, the only tool 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:49.199 that I heard from somebody along the way was I 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:51.800 would say to them in those moments when they were 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:54.880 showing me how hurt and upset they were, I wish 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.600 I had a magic wand and I could wave it 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:01.320 and everything would be okay. But I don't. 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:04.560 But I love that you said this them, So you 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:08.679 did have tools that That's a version of what I'm 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.600 really saying here. And this is the hard thing as 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:15.840 a parent that is part of the decision to divorce, 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:18.680 or at least had to agree to the divorce is 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:23.240 saying to our kids some version of I can't fix it. 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:25.240 It's the last thing we want to say to our kids. 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.120 But the best thing to say to our kids their 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:31.200 reality is that it's not okay, and They don't want 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:33.600 to hear all the ways that it's okay. They want 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:36.160 to hear that you get it, that it hurts, and 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:41.040 that it doesn't feel better yet. Will it feel better? Yes, absolutely, 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.920 it will feel better. It will feel better tomorrow in 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:46.080 a certain way, in a year, in a certain way, 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:48.559 in ten years, in a certain way. It will feel 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:52.080 better along the trajectory, along the journey. We all know 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:57.040 adults who are children of divorce and they're okay, they 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:01.760 find their way right. But Parado kids have divorced find 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:05.600 their way much more easily if their trauma and their 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:09.720 ongoing pain is honored and acknowledged and validated and discussed 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:15.000 and not tried to make okay right, because that's their reality. 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:16.560 It's never going to be okay for a kid that 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:18.280 their mom and dad are together. I mean, there are 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:21.320 may be exceptions where something crazy toxic was going on, obviously, 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:25.520 but in general, yeah, I love that you put that 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.880 to them. So you you offer them something critical, which 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.119 is I see you, I know, and I can't fix it, 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.120 and I'm right here with you until it feels just 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:36.600 a little bit better. You know. 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:44.040 What do you think about bringing the new significant other 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.960 to a holiday gathering to meet your family for the 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.000 first time. Is that appropriate or is that too much 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:54.040 for the new person to handle, too much for the 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:55.480 kids the family to handle. 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:59.520 Yeah. So, if you come to know me in general, 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:02.640 I'm a clinician that likes to hold both sides and 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:04.960 talk about both sides. I am not going to do 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:06.400 that here. That is a hard no. 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:13.280 Oh my god, I failed. I met my new significant 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:15.320 other in the beginning of December and he was at 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:20.160 our house for Christmas. Oh man, Well. 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:28.760 Look, having said that, are there stories where in theory 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:32.160 and in concept where I would say no and they 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:38.160 work out beautifully? Absolutely? I mean I have clients who 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:40.680 meet someone to introduce them to their kids, like the 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:45.480 next week, have them move in two weeks later, and 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:51.120 and how the beautiful mats became loving. So but let 0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:53.880 me tell you why I'm saying now, and that is 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.720 the introduction. It's really about the kids. If there's no 0:03:57.840 --> 0:03:59.960 kids involved, yeah, I mean, if there's no kids involve, 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:02.960 whatever feels right to the adults involved, I think it's 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:05.560 just fine. I may have like an opinion one way 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:07.560 or the other, but I think it's just fine when 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:11.520 there's kids involved, because it bumps up against what I 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.680 was just talking about, which is like something much deeper 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:18.039 in our minds. Were like whatever, it's like two hours 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:20.760 over like a turkey and a couple of like eggnogs. 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.159 It's all good. Other cousins will be there, It'll be 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.760 like so fun, right. But because it bumps up against 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.520 this like deeper, this isn't my dad, my mom is 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:34.760 moving on it, it sort of kicks up that, like, 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:39.080 my mom and dad aren't together. Having your kids meet 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:43.040 your significant other in a very small dose, in a 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:48.040 super chill environment is what I recommend as a first set. 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:52.440 So like it's in neutral territory, you know, over a 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:54.839 coffee or a quick ice cream, depending out of age, 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:59.080 and it's like an hour and it's like the discussion 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:02.080 beforehand is version of what I was just talking about. Like, 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:06.280 so you've known about Joe for a long time, but 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.880 this is different. I'm telling you he's so important to 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:12.120 me that I want you, who was the most important 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:14.160 person to be in the world, to meet him, and 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:17.840 that that's a big message. Well bring up a lot 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:21.640 of feelings, you know, really, and it's adjusted for the 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.679 kids sixteen versus six, But you get what I'm saying. 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.760 So wow, that's a that's a that's that's a that's 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:30.960 a moment. You know, how do you feel about it? 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:34.520 Here's my idea. We're going to meet Joe at the 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:38.120 yogurt shop tomorrow after school for an hour. We're just 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:39.800 gonna have an ice cream and you'll get to stay 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.440 hi and you can show him your favorite doll and 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:46.600 then like that's it. Then maybe we'll see him again 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.599 another time after right, And so that it's it's it's 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:53.920 really low pressure. It has a finite aspect to it 0:05:54.160 --> 0:06:00.240 and feels kid centered, which I think matters that. It's like, 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.159 I mean, you're not going to say what I'm going 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:05.080 to say right now, but some version of like your 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.599 comfort matters to me, your feeling state matters to me. 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:12.760 So this is slow, this is intentional, This is no pressure, 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:18.839 and the meeting itself is really more about Joe meeting 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:23.159 the kids versus the kids just witnessing Mom with Joe 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.480 in their new relationship. It's a way to like bring 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.880 them in as a part of it as opposed to 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:30.960 just like a witness of it. 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:34.080 Yeah, because they are a part of it. 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:38.680 Absolutely, That's that's the intention. And so slow rolling it 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.440 in the way that I was just describing, I think 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:46.400 sets up the entire system for the most success, but 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:51.279 particularly that relationship between the kids and Joe, because it 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:55.360 doesn't feel like too much at once and like a here, 0:06:56.160 --> 0:07:01.960 he's here, and accept him. Right. It's it's the initial 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:05.200 meeting is not about the kid witnessing your connection with Joe, 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:09.240 or rather about Joe and the kids just get to 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.160 know each other, to know each other, and then the 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.600 next time it's two hours you go bowling, and then 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.400 the next time it's a movie and dinner, and then 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:22.200 from there you're starting to expand. Again, this is super prescriptive. 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:24.840 It can work in an absence of all of this, 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:27.840 but from a clinical standpoint, now that we have the 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:31.160 information we've been talking about, I imagine what I'm saying 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.040 makes sense and that ideally, and if you're looking for 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.000 like a little bit of a map, that's the one 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:36.720 I would pick. 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:41.680 That's a good map. Oh I was flying mapless. Okay, 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:44.800 what do you think about people who have a checklist 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:49.400 of must haves in a partner? I know I in 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:52.480 my work. After my divorce, I had to sit down 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:56.600 and think about what was important to me looking forward 0:07:56.640 --> 0:08:00.000 into another relationship, and my therapist at that time called 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:04.560 at my non negotiables, where that there were certain things 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:09.040 that were very very important to me to build that relationship. 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.840 On exactly the phrase I was going to introduce as well, 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:16.000 non negotiables and just to think more about it for 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:19.240 the folks listening, these are things that like they're just 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:25.040 deal breakers that have now decided post divorce with great 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:30.040 intention and analysis, you cannot live without, you cannot endure. 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:34.480 And I mean those might be things anything from he 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.320 lives a certain number of miles away, to he does 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.439 have kids he doesn't have kids, to he cares about communication, 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:45.000 to his adventures, lifestyle, whatever the things are, and that 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:53.000 is personal and concrete. So concretize those non negotiables, those 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:55.480 deal breakers for yourself. And it sounds like you did 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.319 in a way that is externalized. Don't let it be 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.760 vague and more like, really decide what are those things 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:04.760 and if you sit down with your piece of paper 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.760 or you're fried or your therapist, I don't know. Oh, 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.120 I think it's one thing yesterday and one thing tomorrow. 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:14.480 That's okay. I'm not surprised you just got out of divorce. 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:17.640 It's static and you're trying to find your feet on 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.160 the ground. So don't despair if you don't know or 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.400 it keeps changing, but don't give up on it. Right, 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:26.560 It's a process. And like we were talking about at 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:29.240 the beginning, if you think your non negotiables are you know, 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.559 these top three things, and then you meet someone and 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.120 he has kids and you were sure you didn't want 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:36.200 to be with someone who has kids. But like all 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:39.240 the other things are so important, let it be fluid. 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:45.800 Don't make it all encompassing and all powerful in a 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:50.400 way that disallows you to be uh, a version of 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:55.280 like contrived spontanet at spontaneous. Right, all those things to 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.840 shift because you will be growing and shifting post divorce. 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:03.520 So start the process, but allow it to flow and 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:07.360 shift and change, and don't shame or criticize yourself if 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:08.840 it does, in fact, expect it to. 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:14.120 Yes, should you tell the person about your non negotiables 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:15.600 or should you keep them to yourself? 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.640 Yeah, it's a good question. I mean I might not 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:20.319 just like present it. 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:25.160 It's like a list. Here, read this and then just 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.120 sign at the bottom that you actually read it. 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:32.080 Yeah, let me just text you this bullet contract. So 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:40.360 if you are sure that you want to be with 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:46.880 someone who is open to having children. That seems like 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:50.440 a non negotiable that is worthy of sharing. You know, 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:51.880 I'm not sure you want to use that as like 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:56.720 your date opener. But again, I would embody that truth 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.000 even in that first meeting, certainly by the second meeting, 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:03.760 and it's and I would love for people to When 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:05.960 I use the word embody, it's very deliberate. I don't 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.079 want anyone shrinking and like, well, I just kind of 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:09.840 want to be with some of them as kids. I 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.679 want you to sit in your truth and try it on, 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:17.680 even if it changes six months from now. I just 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:19.560 know in this season of my life, I'm really clear 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:21.040 I want to be with someone who wants to kids 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.880 as much as I do. It's just it's just something 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:27.240 I'm so clear on, which feels kind of great. Right. 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:32.360 There's no apology, there's no further explanation. This is my truth, 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:37.079 and if the person can't promise or is turned off 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.200 by that, we can thank them for giving us this 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:42.959 feedback quickly so we don't have to carry on any longer. 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.120 And that might be complex and disappointing and feel rejecting 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:49.160 in all those things. But if our goal is to 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:53.200 be embodied right, is to figure out what resonates for 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:57.360 us and live a life that finally feels like it's 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:01.320 uplifting and safe and grounded, we must put these things 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.319 out there in this embodied way. This is my truth 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.880 and I'm not going to apologize for it, and I 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:11.760 would attach that same mindset to really any non negotiable that, like, 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:15.240 don't apologize for it. You know, I want to be 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:17.880 with someone that wants to travel three times a year 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:21.840 I do. Might seem simple, might seem small, might seem nuanced, 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:25.240 but that's my truth for now. How do you feel 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:30.000 about travel right that you're just embodying who you are 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:34.080 at this season and trying on how it feels to 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.800 show up that way. 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.640 I had something so it felt so insignificant, but to 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:52.200 me it felt it was important. I didn't want to 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:53.000 be with a smoker. 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:53.880 Yep. 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.240 I didn't want to be with somebody who smoked and 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.840 then for the rest of our lives was sick from it. 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:02.880 Always had that smell like it was really important to 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:06.320 me and I and when I met Dave, he smoked, 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.560 and so I immediately thought, oh, well, he's not the 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:16.160 one for me because he smokes silly as that is. 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:22.719 And I remember asking, is quitting smoking something that you 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.520 might ever be interested or open to? Do you want 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.560 to smoke forever? What what is it with you and smoking? 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:33.199 Like I had to instead of just shutting it off 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.320 for myself, I had to do what you said, get 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:40.400 curious and embody what I wanted, but at the same 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:42.800 time be curious about what he wanted so that I 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:44.360 could get that solid information. 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:49.600 Right, I know that's exactly what I'm talking about. You 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.920 have to show up for yourself and it's not easy. 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.000 That kind of self advocacy. 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:54.559 Is very scary. 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:59.400 Yeah, scary, and that feeling I want your listeners to 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:02.199 understand is ubiquitous. There's nothing wrong with you if that 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:05.320 feels scary, It is scary to stand in your own 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.880 truth and declare them with risk. Right, he could have 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:12.280 turned around and said, I'm going to keep doing this. 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.680 If that's a deal breaker for you, then I guess 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:16.319 this is where we part ways and that might have 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:21.200 been devastating, right, But to pursue something that is like 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.240 deeply resonating to our soul, which I think is the 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.760 pursuit post divorce. Right, If we're going to get divorced 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:29.600 and we're going to go through that trauma. We better 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:33.840 be pursuing something that is like soul worthy, right, you 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:35.560 better be. We're going to go through all of that, 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:39.440 And so having a conversation like that's, yes, scary, nothing 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:41.640 wrong with you. If it's anxiety provoking, all you got 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:43.680 to do is eke it out I do. You don't 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.920 have to feel confident about it, you don't have to 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:48.680 not feel scared about it. You just got to get 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:52.320 the words out right, conceice it until it starts to 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:56.440 feel a little less scary. But I just love that 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:01.360 word embodied. It's like just reflecting your truth and allowing 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.720 for that to shift and change and be influenced by 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:07.160 safe others in our own you know, sort of growth. 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.560 But that's the exact example, a version of the example 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:11.160 I had in mind. 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.400 A dating coach said that you should only go on 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:16.560 a date with someone once a week when you're getting 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:18.800 to know them. Do you think that's a good rule. 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:25.400 In spite of what I've just said about I've said 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:29.720 a number of things that are prescriptive in this case. No, 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:37.600 I don't like over prescribing dating posts. Divorce what it 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.480 should or shouldn't look like. I think it induces a 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:44.800 lot of confusion and shame and self criticism. Look in 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:48.920 its extreme, if you're going out four to five nights 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.720 a week and not getting a lot of sleep and 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:56.280 drinking and in and around lots of different guys, and 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.400 that dynamic starts to feel like a little messy and 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:02.800 overwhelmed and the opposite of grounding. I think that's something 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:07.200 to look at. That pattern probably is an ideal in general, 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.280 and certainly not right in the aftermath of divorce. But 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.600 I think having like a once a week is the limit, 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:19.080 and if more, that's bad. If it less, that's bad. 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:24.840 It is overly prescriptive and not useful and ends up 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.400 making people feel bad. I'm not really interested in. 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:33.320 Yeah, the rules of it all are not Yeah, yeah. 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:37.200 That's right. So again intuition, you know, back to like, Yeah, 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.760 so lately I've been going out two three times a week? 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:42.440 How does that feel to me? Is it starting to 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.440 feel like I don't have as much time for self 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:49.800 care or sleep or my kids? No shame, no criticism, Yeah, 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:52.280 maybe a little. I wonder if I should try twice 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.360 a week. I wonder what that'll feel like right, you know, 0:16:55.440 --> 0:17:00.520 and just being curious as opposed to the rules, which 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.679 I think end up feeling confusing and shaming. I mean, 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:06.520 once a week get you decide that and that feels 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.399 right to you, that's great. But if you decide to 0:17:09.440 --> 0:17:11.440 do more when you're getting to know someone, I think 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:18.360 that's fine. Look, there's the cliche trajectory which plays out 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:23.240 often enough that post divorce, you meet someone and filling 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:27.119 in space with that person makes you feel less hard 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:31.639 things and you aren't thinking about your loneliness and your 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:35.280 confusion and your anger and your trauma. We want to 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.440 watch out for that. If we are unable to sort 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:43.119 of reserve time for self reflection to feel all the 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:48.000 messy feelings, and the main culprit is dating and the 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:52.200 time spent there, that's something to consider. Getting through divorce 0:17:52.440 --> 0:18:00.560 in a way that is healing and stabilizing requires time 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:04.000 to reflect and heal and feel all those tricky emotions. 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:05.919 I don't want to equate it to like, so if 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.040 you're going out more than once a week, that means 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.880 you can't do that. I just want to be conscious 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.719 about it. Am I giving myself time and space and 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:17.679 mobilizing resources to help myself heal. And if the answer 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.840 is no or like a diminishing yes, we should look 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.159 at that and eliminate the things that are or at 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:26.080 least modify the things that are getting in the way. 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:38.880 Right, speaking of rules, what do you think about books 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:41.600 like the rules or men are from Mars and women 0:18:41.680 --> 0:18:45.680 are for wherever other planet? I can't remember Venus Venus? 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:46.000 Yes? 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:47.920 Today? Do those kinds of books help? 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.000 Look? I mean I think some of those concepts were 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:56.080 created because of patterns that repeat over time. I mean, 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:58.480 none of us are strangers for the idea that like 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:03.080 men and women oftentimes think differently and are or less 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:05.760 emotional about certain things, et cetera. So I think having 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.680 like a language to talk about it is it can 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:13.160 be useful, like with ourselves between friends with a partner. 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:18.600 So they have utility because they make those things concretized 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:20.440 in a way that like we can wrap our brain 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:22.600 around as opposed to just like the feeling of all 0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:29.840 those experiences. Having said that, I think dialogue and conversation 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.919 and nuance and like the self check in pattern that 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:38.320 we're talking about is your best tool, not a like 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:42.439 chapter three pages. 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:44.400 You know, let me just hold on. 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.560 This is what must be happening. Instead, look in yourself, 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.399 what is happening? What do I understand about it? How 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.199 does it feel in my body? If it's confusing, can 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.040 I say more about it? And what's ever going on 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.119 with the person in front of us being able? I 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.640 mean it depends on the situation. Show I'm over generalizing, 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:05.600 but to do a version of what you said you 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.600 did in your circumstance, like huh, I'm feeling this thing 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:11.280 or I'm thinking about this thing, like I just want 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.240 to say it out loud. What do you think? You 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:17.639 know that we if we get our head to into 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:23.600 books or like Instagram quotes or it can feel very 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:28.200 confusing and overwhelming when the answers eventually come within ourselves 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:31.879 and in dialogue with our potential partners, and if our 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:36.600 potential partners are unable to sustain a dialogue that is 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:40.360 delivered in a respectful, digestible way, we need to think 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:40.760 about that. 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.360 If you've broken up, if you're going through a divorce 0:20:47.320 --> 0:20:50.520 and you're having trouble, you're having a hard time getting 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:53.880 over your ex spouse, what should we do? I mean, 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:57.560 what questions should we be asking ourselves so that we 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:01.800 don't stay stuck. That's the worst when you just can't 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:02.600 get over it. 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:08.679 Yes, yes, yes, it is the worst. It's deeply painful 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:11.439 to go through all the things that we're talking about 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:12.920 and still of the. 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:18.480 Person, especially if that person is already dating someone else 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:19.320 moved on. 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:26.560 It's devastating. And I'll start there, and it's not a 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:32.440 pleasant concept to consider, but it's like a death that 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:36.360 induces an incredible amount of grief and all of the 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:39.840 stages that go with grief, all the anger, all the denial, 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:41.880 all the bargaining, you know, all that stuff that is 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:45.800 a little bit cliche, but like, oh so true, you know. 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:49.080 And there's no avoiding that. There's no amount of like 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:55.960 dating or bashing him, or a therapy or whatever other 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:59.399 tools you might mobilize that can be a shortcut of that. 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:01.560 You're gonna mon it, you're going to agrieve it, and 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:04.399 you're going to feel the things. And that season of 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:06.760 life is a little bit of a dark night of 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:10.560 the soul, right, it is really, really, really had to 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:15.600 get through so paradoxically, leaning in here it is here, 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:18.760 it is, I'm leaning in and I'm taking care of 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:21.639 myself in every way I can think of, and not 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:25.040 expecting it to feel like better or okay in the 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:29.600 short run. And I'm like allowing myself to sit in 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:33.520 it so that as it begins to pass through, which 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:37.160 it always does. I remind clients all the time. Name 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:42.159 a feeling state you've had that hasn't changed eventually, No 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:46.560 such thing. It does change. It does change, and more eventually, 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:48.840 maybe not tomorrow or even like six months from now 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:52.679 or twelve months now, shipped and change eventually. And so 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:55.880 it's about sitting in it, allowing it to come up 0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:58.680 and out from your body in a safe way, and 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:01.920 just like I said, curate, cultivating as many resources as 0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:04.560 possible as you get through it, being really kind and 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:08.400 graceful to yourself. And when you have time, I shouldn't 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:12.360 say time, when you have space to start gently thinking 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:17.280 about why this person is not a safe choice for 0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:21.800 you any longer. Right, And if the only thing on 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:24.880 the list is because they don't choose me, that's enough. 0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:28.640 That's not a safe choice for you anymore, even if 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:30.760 everything else about them is amazing, which is usually not 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:34.359 the case. But even if it is, that renders it 0:23:34.400 --> 0:23:38.000 an unsafe choice for you. And that doesn't mean it's 0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:41.719 easily accepted, but it's something to start orienting yourself around. 0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:45.200 I can't choose, it doesn't choose me. I can't invest 0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:50.520 in something that isn't reciprocated, and gently starting to understand 0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:52.800 the part of you that's willing to do that for two. 0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:56.560 Oover reminds me just like this hard this hard truth 0:23:56.600 --> 0:23:58.679 that I had when I was going through it was 0:23:58.800 --> 0:24:02.240 the therapist saying, Jenny, why would you love someone who 0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:06.520 doesn't love you back? And that resonated for me in 0:24:06.520 --> 0:24:11.720