WEBVTT - Short Stuff: What's a mudlarker?

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the short stuff. I'm josh, there's shock, We

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<v Speaker 1>got a clam diggers on and we're ready to go

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<v Speaker 1>to do a little mud larking, which just happens to

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<v Speaker 1>be the subject of this short stuff. Have you ever

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<v Speaker 1>heard of this term? I want to say yes, but

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes my brain makes up memories just to be cool.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure I would assume that etymology edic even

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<v Speaker 2>look it up, because I just assumed that mud larking

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<v Speaker 2>was just having a lark in the mud. It's got

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<v Speaker 2>to be it, right, Or.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe you flitter about from one place to another like

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<v Speaker 1>a lark in the mud. Okay, I like them both.

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<v Speaker 1>Can we both win like a soccer game? Sure? I

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<v Speaker 1>love it.

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<v Speaker 2>I love it. Mud larking is a thing that we're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about that. It's a term you probably hear in

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<v Speaker 2>England more readily and specifically even maybe London. Originally in

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<v Speaker 2>the eighteenth or nineteenth century, and back then it was

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<v Speaker 2>basically when people of lesser means would walk along the

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<v Speaker 2>mud banks at low tide of the river Thames.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Thames right, Thames, Thames.

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<v Speaker 2>Thames, the Thames and collect stuff to try and sell.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, everything from little bits of rope to coins. If

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<v Speaker 1>they were lucky, anything somebody would buy. That's how some

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<v Speaker 1>people actually supported themselves in the nineteenth century. Fast forward

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<v Speaker 1>to today, I'm guessing starting around the seventies, maybe the eighties.

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<v Speaker 1>Now it's just a pastime. I don't think anybody supports

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<v Speaker 1>themselves mudlarking any longer. It's just a hobby, akin to

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<v Speaker 1>people who are beachcombers with metal detectors on.

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<v Speaker 2>The bill, or like magnet fishing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, similar to that. We actually did a short stuff

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<v Speaker 1>on that, remember that. Yeah, this is like that, but

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<v Speaker 1>there are definite nuances that distinguish it from either one

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<v Speaker 1>of those two things.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And the reason why this has become a pastime

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<v Speaker 2>or i guess a sort of a hobby now on

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<v Speaker 2>the Thames is because the Thames was a garbage dumping

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<v Speaker 2>ground for many, many years. People would just you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we did our thing on New York City trash and

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<v Speaker 2>how previous to trash collection, people would just dump it

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<v Speaker 2>on the sidewalks and in the rivers there in New York.

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<v Speaker 2>They did the same thing in London and it was

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<v Speaker 2>a junky, nasty polluted river until about you know, sixty

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<v Speaker 2>something years ago, when they took great, great efforts to

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<v Speaker 2>really clean up that river, and now apparently, at least

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<v Speaker 2>as far as urban rivers goes, it's one of the

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<v Speaker 2>cleanest ones, right, But there is still because it happened

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<v Speaker 2>for so many years, and because so much happened in

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<v Speaker 2>London over those years, there's just you know, thousands of

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<v Speaker 2>years of potential gold and sometimes real gold in those

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<v Speaker 2>muddy banks.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because a lot of people have lived densely in

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<v Speaker 1>the London area on the Thames for like you said,

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<v Speaker 1>multiple thousands of years. So there's just a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>stuff there that separates the Thames in and of itself

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<v Speaker 1>from other rivers. But one of the other things that

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<v Speaker 1>really makes the Thames so great for mudlarking is the

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<v Speaker 1>tidal action that it goes through every day, four times

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<v Speaker 1>a day. Two high tides two low tides are so

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<v Speaker 1>pronounced that when low tide goes out, it exposes a

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<v Speaker 1>tremendous amount of the Thames to open air for people

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<v Speaker 1>to walk around and look for stuff. That's part one.

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<v Speaker 1>The other part is that when the tide comes back in,

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<v Speaker 1>it comes back in with such force that it actually

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<v Speaker 1>can scour the river bottom deposit stuff up on what

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<v Speaker 1>will soon be the shore at low tide, and then

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<v Speaker 1>when the water goes back out there you go oppressed

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<v Speaker 1>of something that was thrown in the river five hundred

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<v Speaker 1>years ago is now at your feet mudlarker.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, and if you remember. Actually, I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if this has kind of come out before that with

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<v Speaker 2>how our publishing works, but there's a thing that we

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<v Speaker 2>either discussed or will discuss in our No, I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's already out actually our episode on the Silurian hypothesis.

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<v Speaker 2>Then it came out today, and that is the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that something stuck down in mud can survive in better shape,

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<v Speaker 2>much much longer than something subjected to the forces of

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<v Speaker 2>wind and erosion and things like that. So a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of the stuff that these mudlarkers are finding in the

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<v Speaker 2>mud on the Thames is in great shape.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure. I mean like really really old stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw somebody who found a tutor shoe and it

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<v Speaker 1>was in such great shape that you could see where

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<v Speaker 1>like the person wearing at their heel or like the

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<v Speaker 1>side of their big toe had like shaped the shoe

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<v Speaker 1>around it. Those impressions were still there.

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<v Speaker 2>Isn't They had a corn.

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<v Speaker 1>Or maybe even a bunyon. If you're a lucky mud

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<v Speaker 1>larker and you find a tutor shoe, we.

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<v Speaker 2>Should do a short corns and bunions. Sure, all right,

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<v Speaker 2>So if you are in England and you want to

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<v Speaker 2>do this before the break, we should tell you that

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<v Speaker 2>you do need a permit. You have to get a

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<v Speaker 2>permit from the Port of London Authority. Apparently it takes

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<v Speaker 2>about a month or longer and we'll cost you about

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<v Speaker 2>about thirty five quid and you will get a standard

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<v Speaker 2>license to dig about three inches deep. You can't go

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<v Speaker 2>in there with your shovel or your backo and dig

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<v Speaker 2>like six eight feet down. You just can't do that.

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<v Speaker 2>You still want to not disturb the Thames that much.

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<v Speaker 2>They're trying to protect that thing, so you can go

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<v Speaker 2>about three inches down.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, let's take a break and we'll come back

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<v Speaker 1>and talk about some amazing stuff that people have found.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Chuck, you talked about digging maybe three inches

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<v Speaker 1>down tops. I've seen there's some places where you can't

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<v Speaker 1>dig it all, but you can pick stuff up if

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<v Speaker 1>it's sitting on the surface of the mud bank right

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<v Speaker 1>the foreshore is what they call it. But there are

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<v Speaker 1>other parts along the Thames where you can't even go.

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<v Speaker 1>They're protected like cultural sites the Tower of London. You

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<v Speaker 1>can't mudlark along. There's a Roman doc area that was

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<v Speaker 1>later developed by Alfred the Great and the Seven Hundreds,

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<v Speaker 1>and that was later used by Charles the Second and

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<v Speaker 1>to survey the damage of the Great Fire of London

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<v Speaker 1>in sixteen sixty six, called Queen hythe I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if I got that right or not, but that's how

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<v Speaker 1>it's That's how it's spelled, at least if you're an American.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what you would say if you saw this word

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<v Speaker 1>spell out like this? Am I getting that across? I think? So, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just such a cultural treasure and an archaeological site essentially.

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<v Speaker 1>If they're like, don't even go near.

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<v Speaker 2>This, that's right. But let's say my friend, you're mudlarking

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<v Speaker 2>there on the Thames. You pull something out and you're like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>this might be worth a well treasure. What would you

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<v Speaker 2>do with that item?

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<v Speaker 1>I would go on eBay and sell it.

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<v Speaker 2>But you can't do that.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, let's see what else can I do? I would

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<v Speaker 1>hide it under my bed for a decade until the

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<v Speaker 1>heat went down.

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<v Speaker 2>No that's not what you're going to do either, what

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<v Speaker 2>you're supposed to do. They have laws in England that

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<v Speaker 2>basically said they like these treasure laws where hey, if

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<v Speaker 2>you find something like that, something from antiquity that's worth,

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<v Speaker 2>something that belongs to the people of England, my friend,

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<v Speaker 2>and you have to go to the fines liaison officer

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<v Speaker 2>and you have to give it to them and they

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<v Speaker 2>will help you identify and determine what that is and

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<v Speaker 2>what it's worth. And do you sell it? No, no, no,

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<v Speaker 2>they have to record it in their Portable Antiquities Scheme,

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<v Speaker 2>which is basically a British museum project that just keeps

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<v Speaker 2>track of all that stuff. And then finally, if it

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<v Speaker 2>does have value, a museum has the right to buy

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<v Speaker 2>that and you could potentially be compensated for that.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure. And then if they're like this is totally valueless,

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<v Speaker 1>get this out of our face, you get to keep

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<v Speaker 1>ebe sure if you can find a chump who wants

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<v Speaker 1>this extraordinarily common thing. Apparently clay pipes from like the

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<v Speaker 1>sixteenth century are a dime a dozen in the tens nothing. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>And the reason why, I mean, you look at these things,

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<v Speaker 1>you're like that seems like that's a pretty cool archaeological find.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not, because at the time, starting from about the

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen hundreds onward, they were essentially treated like cigarette butts

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<v Speaker 1>are today. Like you've just finished using the pipe and

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<v Speaker 1>you just throw it, like you just throw it at

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<v Speaker 1>ever use. Yes, from what I saw orf, or maybe

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of uses, whenever you got tired of carrying

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<v Speaker 1>it around. Okay, And probably I would guess have formerly

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<v Speaker 1>smoked a pipe at two separate times in my life, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I would say that you probably tossed it when it

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<v Speaker 1>started to get gummed up with like tar.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I think they had

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<v Speaker 2>pretty little thin stem, so it probably got gumped.

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<v Speaker 1>Up pretty quick. Probably.

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<v Speaker 2>So before we get onto what we really want to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about, which is some of the cool stuff they

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<v Speaker 2>found in the Thames, we should say to be careful.

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<v Speaker 2>This is something you want to get into. That tidal

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<v Speaker 2>action is pretty severe. It can come in pretty quickly,

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<v Speaker 2>and sometimes you're just so into what you're doing out

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<v Speaker 2>there in the mud that you might look up and

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<v Speaker 2>be like, oh, krad, I'm now stranded here and the

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<v Speaker 2>water is coming at me. And there have been people

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<v Speaker 2>who had to been rescued. That are mudlarking out there

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<v Speaker 2>because the water's coming at them.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Some other hazards are You can slip on rocks

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<v Speaker 1>because they're wet and covered in algae, so you want

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<v Speaker 1>to be careful walking around. You also want to wear gloves,

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<v Speaker 1>You want to wear boots. You do not want to

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<v Speaker 1>wear clam diggers. Like I said, you want to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of keep your skin covered as best as possible. Because

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<v Speaker 1>there's all sorts of communicable diseases you can catch still

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<v Speaker 1>by digging around on the Thames Foreshore. One of them

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<v Speaker 1>is called Wheels disease and it is transmitted through water

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<v Speaker 1>via rat urine. It's transmitted from rat urine via water.

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<v Speaker 1>Either way, rat urine's involved in your getting a disease

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<v Speaker 1>from it. You don't want that.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm surprised there are rats in London.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. What else?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think we should talk about some of the

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<v Speaker 2>things they found, because you know, we could go on

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<v Speaker 2>and on about these. I just picked out a few.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you found any other ones, but

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<v Speaker 2>for my money, I would love to talk about the

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<v Speaker 2>Doves Press typeface or the Doves type or Doves Roman

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<v Speaker 2>because it was an actual typeface that was found and

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<v Speaker 2>recovered from the Thames, a long lost, forgotten, well not forgotten,

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<v Speaker 2>but a long lost typeface from this company called the

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<v Speaker 2>Doves Press, and it was co owned and I believe

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<v Speaker 2>it was the early twentieth century. It was a guy

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<v Speaker 2>named TJ. Cobden Sanderson and Emery Walker, and apparently they

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<v Speaker 2>dissolved their partnership. Eventually the press closed in nineteen seventeen.

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<v Speaker 2>When they were dissolving the partnership, they came up with

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<v Speaker 2>an agreement where Cobden Sanderson was like, that typeface is mine.

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<v Speaker 2>This is what we print all our stuff in. When

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<v Speaker 2>I die, then you can have it. I'm assuming he

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<v Speaker 2>was older, but I'm not sure why Walker would agree

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<v Speaker 2>to that, unless CS was a little closer to death.

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<v Speaker 2>But at any rate, that was what happened after the

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<v Speaker 2>final publication CS. Apparently it just did not go down

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<v Speaker 2>well between them, and he said, I bequeathed the spot

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<v Speaker 2>to the bed of the Thames, and over one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and seventy trips threw these metal molds into the river.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, two hundred thousand pieces. He threw the Tire proprietary

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<v Speaker 1>typeface into the Thames, and there were no other copies

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<v Speaker 1>of it. So this beautiful typeface that there are plenty

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<v Speaker 1>of examples of because this publishing house that used it

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<v Speaker 1>was around for a while, it was just lost forever.

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<v Speaker 1>And that really got in the crawl of a modern

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<v Speaker 1>designer named Robert Green, who, based on examples of it

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<v Speaker 1>from like books or something like that, created a digitized

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<v Speaker 1>version of it. But he was like, this can be better.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm not sure if he got into mud larking

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<v Speaker 1>or to find these type I'm not sure what you

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<v Speaker 1>call them, the little dye that you would actually use

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<v Speaker 1>to on the printing press, the molds, the molts, or

0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:44.040
<v Speaker 1>if he ran across mudlarkers who had found him or something.

0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:49.440
<v Speaker 1>But he became you could probably say, obsessed with finding

0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:54.559
<v Speaker 1>these original molds and did he launched like some expeditions

0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:56.240
<v Speaker 1>on the temps to find him. He came up with

0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:58.840
<v Speaker 1>like one hundred and fifty or so of them and

0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:03.040
<v Speaker 1>used them to really drive home the digitized version of

0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.040
<v Speaker 1>doves type that he created.

0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, do you know what he did in twenty fourteen

0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.679
<v Speaker 2>He got the Port Authority Port of London Authorities dive

0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:13.320
<v Speaker 2>team to go get this stuff.

0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:15.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, pretty neat.

0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.840
<v Speaker 2>And they did it, and now we have Doves Roman again.

0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.360
<v Speaker 2>And as you know, I'm a Times New Roman guy.

0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.720
<v Speaker 2>We each have our fonts that we print our various

0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.319
<v Speaker 2>stuff in, and I've always been a Times New Roman guy.

0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:28.280
<v Speaker 2>But boy, this Dove's Roman is beautiful.

0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:32.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I love it. Give me Calibri or give me death.

0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.360
<v Speaker 2>There's more things that people have found. That was the

0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.240
<v Speaker 2>coolest story, so you can just go check it out

0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:41.680
<v Speaker 2>and look up more things that have been found mudlarking.

0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:43.360
<v Speaker 2>A lot of cool old things from antiquity.

0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.280
<v Speaker 1>Yep, very cool. And if this you got the mudlarking

0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:48.000
<v Speaker 1>bug and you go to London, make sure you get

0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:52.240
<v Speaker 1>a permit first. And I guess since we talked about permits,

0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:58.280
<v Speaker 1>the means short Stuff's out. Stuff you should Know is

0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.720
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