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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How does your so called

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Speaker 1: love life land you behind bars? And how does a

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Speaker 1: gorgeous PhD candidate go from writing her dissertation to riding

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Speaker 1: at a pellet brief sitting on her bunk in a

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Speaker 1: jail cell. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Dix tells police

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Speaker 1: she doesn't remember how she got to DC. In fact,

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Speaker 1: doesn't even know how she got to Fourth Street here

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Speaker 1: in Southwest. But according to those court records, she arrived

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Speaker 1: to the apartment on Saturday by five thirty. Neighbors help police.

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Speaker 1: They heard gunshots and then a woman screaming, please wake up.

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Speaker 1: Someone helped me. So let me get this straight. She

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Speaker 1: doesn't know how she got to DC. She doesn't know

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Speaker 1: how she got to Fourth Street. She doesn't know how

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Speaker 1: she got to the apartment. Neighbors hear her at five

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Speaker 1: thirty screaming wake up, wake up, and low and behold.

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Speaker 1: She somehow managed, in her fugue state to end up

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Speaker 1: in the apartment of her lover with a gun. Now,

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Speaker 1: how did that happen? I guess she was blacked out

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Speaker 1: the whole way to DC again. I mean, I see, Grace,

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here. At crime Stories,

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Speaker 1: what a story to tell and trying to make sense

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Speaker 1: out of it is an all star panel. James Shelnut

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Speaker 1: seven years Metro major case and SWAT now lawyer at

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Speaker 1: Shelnut Lawfirm dot com, practicing in Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Alabama, Texas, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: You name it. Doctor Gen Man, marriage a family therapist,

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Speaker 1: host of Couples Therapy on VH one, the Doctor Jen

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Speaker 1: Show series XM, and author of The Relationship Fix. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Gen six Step Guide to Improving communication connection in intimacy.

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Speaker 1: You can find a doctor gen dot com. And apparently

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Speaker 1: this woman, the PhD candidate did not have your book,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jim to Also with US doctor Pria Bannerjee Board

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Speaker 1: Certified Forensic Pathologist Anchor Forensic Pathology dot com and Assistant

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Speaker 1: medical Examiner. Dan Korcentino, former police chief, former sheriff with

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Speaker 1: US Homeland Security Senior Advisory Board now PI Dan Korcentino

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Speaker 1: dot com joining US from Pueblo, Colorado. But first to you,

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Speaker 1: Alexe Tereshcha Crime online dot Com. Investigate every reporter, Alexa,

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Speaker 1: I don't get it. You've got this woman. She's in

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Speaker 1: the prime of her life. She's just barely in her thirties.

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Speaker 1: She's beautiful. I'm looking at one shot of her, and

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Speaker 1: she's so put together, you know, Alexis Terreschuk. This does

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Speaker 1: not look like a woman that's gonna go out like

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Speaker 1: I would in black tights, mismatched socks belonging to my

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Speaker 1: son Tennis, shoe's in a T shirt. I mean she

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Speaker 1: is matched to a t beautiful hair, perfect smile, just

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Speaker 1: the right amount of makeup to look glamorous yet natural,

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Speaker 1: and she looks very business like. I guess this is

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Speaker 1: her PhD picture. I'm talking about Nazinski Dix. She's the

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Speaker 1: one that blacked out and somehow found her way to Washington,

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Speaker 1: DC to her ex lovers apartment. Alexis, what do we know?

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Speaker 1: First of all, where did she live? She lived in Illinois.

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Speaker 1: But Illinois, you're right, it said that quite a long

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Speaker 1: trip to not remember any of it. Yes, and she

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Speaker 1: is as she's getting her PhD at the University of

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Speaker 1: Notre Dame for one of the hold on, hold on,

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Speaker 1: I want to figure out how far is it. Let's

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Speaker 1: just go from Notre Dame University to Washington, DC, because

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Speaker 1: I want to figure out, and then I'll circle back

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Speaker 1: with our m d, Doctor Prea Bannershee and doctor gen Man.

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Speaker 1: How long for Pete's sake? Can you stay blacked out?

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Speaker 1: And I don't believe she had a self driving Tessa,

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Speaker 1: how did she manage? How many hours? Five hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty one miles totally blacked out? Okay, Alexis terres Chuck.

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Speaker 1: Was she coming from Notre Dame where she was getting

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Speaker 1: her PhD? Yeah? How PhD? Like? This is one of

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Speaker 1: the best schools in the country. She was very respected.

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Speaker 1: She was getting her PhD in gender study. She was

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Speaker 1: somebody that had mentored other students there. And then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden and she shows up in Washington, DC.

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Speaker 1: Can't remember how she got there? Did she flie? Did

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Speaker 1: she drive? Hold on, you're cutting out on me. I'm

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Speaker 1: hearing a lot of moving around, and I blame you,

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Speaker 1: Alexis Toroschuck. So we're talking about a five hundred mile

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Speaker 1: drive from where she's getting her PhD at Notre Dame

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Speaker 1: to the lover's apartment. Excuse me, x Lower, How long

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Speaker 1: were they together, Alexis tres Chuck. They were only together

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Speaker 1: for three months. Okay, stop right there. You're gonna first

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Speaker 1: of all dry five hundred miles to see a man

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Speaker 1: you've only been with for three months. Oh n oh, no, second,

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Speaker 1: Why you're gonna commit a crime murder somebody after just

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Speaker 1: three months? I mean, doctor gen man. Three months is

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Speaker 1: not even enough time to know how they like their coffee,

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Speaker 1: much less decide to murder them. But it's just enough

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Speaker 1: time to create a fantasy of who that person is

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Speaker 1: and what your future is going to be. And if

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Speaker 1: you are deeply topological, it's enough time to get attached

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Speaker 1: and obsessed and become a stoker. Oh wait, I have

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Speaker 1: an idea strictly non medical or non psychological or psychiatric idea.

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Speaker 1: You know how when you're in a new relationship and

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Speaker 1: it's all new, bright and shiny and fun and wonderful. Well,

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Speaker 1: she's still in that phase when he broke up with her.

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Speaker 1: Well how long does that last? I can you remember anymore? Well,

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Speaker 1: it can last anywhere from six to eighteen months typically,

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Speaker 1: where your body is releasing the endorphins and the oxytocins

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Speaker 1: and all that stuff that makes you bond and you know,

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Speaker 1: all the serotonin that makes you feel heady and happy

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Speaker 1: and you know, like you're walking on air. So most likely,

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Speaker 1: given that we're talking three months in she was still there.

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Speaker 1: But also there's clearly a layer of pathology that there's

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Speaker 1: something wrong with this woman that she's become so obsessed

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Speaker 1: that she's now stalking. Now, doctor Jen, you're the therapist.

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Speaker 1: I'm expecting a little more from you. Then there's something

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Speaker 1: wrong with this woman. Okay. Now, granted I'm just a JD.

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Speaker 1: I don't know any of your lingo, but you gotta

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Speaker 1: give me a little bit more than there's something wrong

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Speaker 1: with her. I mean I already know that. Yeah. Look,

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Speaker 1: there are certain personalities that are more likely to stalk

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Speaker 1: when it comes to personality disorder. Someone who is who

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Speaker 1: is a borderline personality disorder, and that's a disorder where

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Speaker 1: people get they put you on a pedestal and then

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Speaker 1: they throw you down. They love you and then they

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Speaker 1: hate you. They get very attached and very focused on

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Speaker 1: this person. And I'm not saying that she's necessarily this

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Speaker 1: personality disorder. I haven't given her any kind of exam myself,

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Speaker 1: but what I will tell you is that people who

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Speaker 1: are like this, the key trigger is abandonment, and they

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Speaker 1: can become very very obsessive when someone abandons them. Once

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Speaker 1: they have attached. You know, James Shelnutt twenty seven years

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Speaker 1: met you a major case, now, lawyer. I was just

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Speaker 1: talking about when your relationship is new and it's all

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Speaker 1: bright and shiny and happy and wonderful and hetty. I

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Speaker 1: was a little flippant, James, And I'm coming to you

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Speaker 1: on this because I know you have five children. I

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Speaker 1: think with the same woman, is that correct? With one

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Speaker 1: two for my prior marriage, and then the rest from current.

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Speaker 1: So after you've been through with your wife three children

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Speaker 1: plus she's step mom and two others, back and forth,

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Speaker 1: with all the visitation in the this and the that,

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Speaker 1: that's what love is. I don't want to sound flippant

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Speaker 1: about real love because you know, James, you know my

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Speaker 1: mother or eighty nine years old, lives with us. Now. Now,

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Speaker 1: real love it's when my husband David, who should be

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Speaker 1: Saint David. He didn't agree for my mom to be

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Speaker 1: part of the deal, but she is right. He takes

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Speaker 1: care of her like she's his own mother. Now that's love,

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Speaker 1: right there? I agree or disagree? Oh? I agree? You know,

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Speaker 1: I mean love not to step into the therapist shoes,

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Speaker 1: but just from a merried perspective, you know, It's easy

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Speaker 1: to feel emotional love when you're in this new relationship,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes as relationship grows, you have to make the

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Speaker 1: decision to love your spouse, and the decision to take

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Speaker 1: control of your own happiness, and the decision to continue

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Speaker 1: to devote yourself to this relationship even when things are

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Speaker 1: not at their peak, even when they're not at their best. Okay,

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Speaker 1: watch out, doctor jen Man. You got a little competition here.

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Speaker 1: And you remember when you were in the hospital when

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Speaker 1: that collapsed. Along who's sitting out in the waiting room

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Speaker 1: just waiting your husband? Remember I do, And well I

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Speaker 1: wasn't there, but what I heard is it's the whole

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Speaker 1: waiting room gas. When my husband was sitting there by himself,

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Speaker 1: so sad and all alone, and you walked in to

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Speaker 1: comfort him, and then the doctors came out, and everybody

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Speaker 1: just watched how much you took care of him in

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Speaker 1: that scary timepra I mean, that's what love is. And

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Speaker 1: I was kind of being flippant about knee and shiny

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Speaker 1: and exciting in the first three months, but I mean

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Speaker 1: that obsessive feeling that she had apparently toward Terry Hickman

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy grace. We're talking about a PhD student.

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Speaker 1: She's beautiful, glamorous, totally put together, obviously brilliant. Why would

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Speaker 1: she drive all the way from her PhD studies in

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Speaker 1: Notre Dame to Washington, DC, nearly six hundred miles to

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Speaker 1: confront a guy that dumped her after just three short months.

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Speaker 1: Take listen to our friends at WUSA nine. Thirty seven

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Speaker 1: year old Nijinsky Dicks tells police she blacked out and

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Speaker 1: doesn't remember what happened, and even though many of the

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Speaker 1: victims neighbors did not want to talk on camera, they

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Speaker 1: helped detectives piece this story together. According to court records,

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Speaker 1: after hearing gunshots, neighbors saw Dicks panicked and pacing the

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Speaker 1: fifth floor balcony a gun in one hand a cell

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Speaker 1: phone in the other. When police got to the apartment,

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Speaker 1: she was screaming, but refused to open the door when

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Speaker 1: detectives got management to help them inside, the court documents

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Speaker 1: say Terry Hickman was lying face down, shot five times

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Speaker 1: in the back of the head and neck, was kneeling

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Speaker 1: over his body, one armed raised another hiding the gun

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Speaker 1: in her lap. M So Dan Corsentina, if I'm in

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Speaker 1: police chief, former sheriff US Homeland Security now private investigator

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Speaker 1: at Dan Korsantino dot com. Dan, you walk in on

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Speaker 1: a scene like that, You've got a dead guy who's

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Speaker 1: obviously blood out in the floor, and you have a

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Speaker 1: woman standing over him, one hand in the air and

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Speaker 1: the other Did I hear hiding a gun? That's an

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Speaker 1: active shooter situation right there. That's an active shooter situation,

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Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it, and the first responding officers

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Speaker 1: are going to take every precaution they can. But she

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Speaker 1: now becomes the suspect immediately, and they're asking her to

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Speaker 1: disclose or show her hands as they did, and produce

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Speaker 1: what they are expecting to be a weapon. They're anticipating that. Subsequently,

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Speaker 1: she did, and they told her to put the gun

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Speaker 1: on the ground, which she did, and they handcuffed her

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Speaker 1: and brought her into custody. You know, multiple shots at

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Speaker 1: close range to doctor Pria Banners Board Certified Forensic Pathologists

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Speaker 1: anchor for Forensic Pathology dot com and doctor Pria, multiple

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Speaker 1: gunshot wounds I believe at close range helped personal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: give me your thoughts, Yeah, totally up close and personal.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is not shooting in the dark. You know,

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Speaker 1: she said she was threatened or whatever blacked out. This

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Speaker 1: is intentional. You are uppose and personal head and neck.

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Speaker 1: That's any one of those shots is going to incapacitate

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Speaker 1: him immediately. And now you have what five I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's insane. There's no self defense in this. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if he had any idea of what was about to happen.

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Speaker 1: And let me circle back to that thought to you,

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Speaker 1: Alexis Treshik. Isn't it true that witnesses the state that

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Speaker 1: they saw the two of them out in the parking

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Speaker 1: lot just prior to the shooting. They did, and then

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Speaker 1: they went inside the apartment and witness is heard screaming,

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Speaker 1: So they actually thought that something was happening to her.

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Speaker 1: They were worried that, you know, perhaps he was attacking her. Now,

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Speaker 1: Dick says to police when they get there, quote, you

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Speaker 1: don't do people you love like that. That's not love.

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Speaker 1: I don't want that. He can't do people like that.

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Speaker 1: You don't do people you love like that. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: After being shown a picture of the dead victim, Terry Hickman,

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Speaker 1: that does not sound like self defense to me. Is

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Speaker 1: that where they're headed back to you, doctor Pryor Banajee.

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Speaker 1: We now know that they were out in the parking lot,

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Speaker 1: and in my mind, the scenario is alexis jump in

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Speaker 1: if you have more facts on this, that she comes

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Speaker 1: all the way from Notre Dame University, gets to Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. Five twenty one miles later, sees him in

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Speaker 1: the parking lot, probably stalks him till he comes out.

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Speaker 1: They're seen together and she's talking he had dumped her

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Speaker 1: after three months or six. Then they end up in

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Speaker 1: his apartment. I guarantee you she wants him back, and

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Speaker 1: they fight and she shoots him dead. He had to

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Speaker 1: know that he was about to get shot. I wonder

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Speaker 1: if he laid there bleeding out, thinking what in the

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Speaker 1: hay just happened? You know, that's it's hard to say,

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Speaker 1: but I'm sure it's escalated, right. I Mean, there's a

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Speaker 1: longer interaction before she shoots them, and she's probably been

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Speaker 1: to his apartment before, I assume in the three months,

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Speaker 1: and you know, he's trying to probably de escalate the situation,

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Speaker 1: and then she brandishes a gun like probably totally caught

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Speaker 1: him by surprise, and then you know, definitely fearing for

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Speaker 1: your life, and then he shot, I mean again, head

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Speaker 1: and neck. It really depends which shot team first, but

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Speaker 1: those are so harmful. He could be feeling it bleeding

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Speaker 1: out or he could have been blacked out very quickly,

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Speaker 1: just depending on where they came. The one thing I

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Speaker 1: want to put in that's non medical is I grew

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Speaker 1: up right outside of DC. You don't just end up

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Speaker 1: in Southwest DC without knowing where you're going from Ohio especially,

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Speaker 1: so she had to figure out figure out how to

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Speaker 1: get there from where. We've been told she had never

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Speaker 1: been in his apartment before, but that doesn't mean she

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Speaker 1: hadn't staked it out before. Absolutely, you don't up there,

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Speaker 1: which shows me even more about the relationship, doctor Jen.

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Speaker 1: You've been sleeping with somebody for three months and you've

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Speaker 1: never been invited their place. Absolutely that That definitely tells

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Speaker 1: us something that this guy was keeping her at a distance,

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Speaker 1: she did not trust her, that he was not at

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Speaker 1: all in and she was. And people who are stalker's

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Speaker 1: hinge to blur the lines between back and of a relationship,

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Speaker 1: they tend to project a lot onto it. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of like, if you think about remember those connect the

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Speaker 1: dots kind of things that we did when we were

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Speaker 1: kids where you know, it's like dot number one, dot

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Speaker 1: number two, and you connect them all and then you

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Speaker 1: have a picture. What happens with people like this is

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Speaker 1: that they connect the dots, except they create a picture

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Speaker 1: that doesn't exist. And I think this woman felt very entitled.

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Speaker 1: She thought something was there that wasn't And even her

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Speaker 1: response when the police were there, you don't do someone

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Speaker 1: wrong like this, it shows that she felt entitled. She

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Speaker 1: felt there was something there that Jess wasn't. I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at his building. It's pretty swank, and I guarantee you

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Speaker 1: there was a doorman. There was a doorman. Did he

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Speaker 1: let her up? Did she follow her ex lover up?

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Speaker 1: We may never know the answers to that because when

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Speaker 1: police get there, he's dead and she's standing over him.

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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, it's easy to analyze

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Speaker 1: a crime scene with forensic data. You'll look for fingerprints,

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Speaker 1: you look for witnesses, the time of the shooting, the

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Speaker 1: time of the NIME on one call. What can you

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Speaker 1: learn about the trajectory path of the bullet? Was their stipling?

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Speaker 1: Was there gunshot residue telling you that she fired within

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Speaker 1: three feet of the defendant. There's so many forensic matters

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Speaker 1: to deal with, but there are also psychological and behavioral

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Speaker 1: issues behind the shooting. This guy, the former belover boyfriend

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Speaker 1: Terry Hickman, and the PhD student turned stalker. Who is she?

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at crime online. Nijinsky

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Speaker 1: is a thirty seven year old PhD student at the

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Speaker 1: University of Illinois, Chicago. She's been pursuing a doctorate in criminology,

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Speaker 1: law and justice while also working as an employee at

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Speaker 1: the University of Notre Dame in South Bend, Indiana, where

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Speaker 1: she's the director of a talent search program called Trio.

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Speaker 1: She's also dating a man named Terry Hickman. They didn't

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Speaker 1: date for long. According to Hickman's family, they dated for

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Speaker 1: about three months, but the forty four year old Terry

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Speaker 1: broke up with her in May. Hm studying criminology, law

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Speaker 1: and justice. That changes things in my mind. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen now to our friends at WUSA nine. We hear

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Speaker 1: in the police report that Hickman dated Dicks for three months.

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Speaker 1: They broke up in May, and Hickman's relatives tell police,

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Speaker 1: according to these court records, that after they broke up,

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Speaker 1: he found someone new and was about to move to Chicago.

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Speaker 1: Hickman untold a very nice guy, a father of a

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Speaker 1: local girl who attends college in DC, who was forty

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Speaker 1: four years old. Hmm, this guy seemed to have it

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Speaker 1: all going on. Found someone new, about to move to Chicago,

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Speaker 1: has a daughter who attends college there in DC where

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Speaker 1: he is. But what more do we know? Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our forensic crime online. According to Hickman's family,

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Speaker 1: Dix had started stalking her former flame after the split,

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Speaker 1: and that even though she was from out of state,

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Speaker 1: she somehow found out where he lived in Washington, DC.

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Speaker 1: Shortly before five thirty pm, police responded to reports of

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Speaker 1: gunfire at the apartment complex in the nation's capital. Police

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Speaker 1: entered an apartment where they found a male individual who

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Speaker 1: had been shot. They found Nijinsky Dix kneeling beside the

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Speaker 1: bullet ridden body of Terry Hickman, who was pronounced dead

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Speaker 1: at the scene. Police said Dix was holding a gun

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Speaker 1: in her left hand, which officers ordered her to put down.

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Speaker 1: She was also on speaker phone with someone who identified

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Speaker 1: themselves to authorities as her mother. Her mother told officers

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Speaker 1: that Dix called her and said he pushed me and

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Speaker 1: I shot him. Okay, so let me understand something. Back

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Speaker 1: to you, alexis terrestcha. She was on the phone with

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Speaker 1: her mom the whole time, she is, and that's what

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Speaker 1: she told her. So when police get there, they actually

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Speaker 1: so where she say he pushed me. Police get there,

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Speaker 1: they noticed that she has like an abrasion on her mouth,

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Speaker 1: kind of on one of her lips, and they asked

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Speaker 1: her what happened. She never mentions he hit me or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. She doesn't mention anything at all about

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Speaker 1: her lip, which they could they clearly see it. She

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Speaker 1: just keeps saying, I have a pain in my back.

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Speaker 1: I have a pain in my back. They said, well,

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Speaker 1: what is it from? She can't tell them. Another thing

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Speaker 1: is that she reached out. We just heard that he

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Speaker 1: had a daughter, a college age daughter. After that they

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Speaker 1: had broken up. Just for three months, she was reaching

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Speaker 1: out to the daughter. So she was obsessed with him

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Speaker 1: and obsessed with trying and which his family thought was

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Speaker 1: so weird. The daughter thought was so strange, and the

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Speaker 1: only did for three months. Why are you calling me

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Speaker 1: about my dad? It was very intrusive into the family life.

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Speaker 1: But back to the crime scene, the police had no

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Speaker 1: evidence of him hitting her other than what the mom said.

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Speaker 1: Even though she had this brus in her mouth, she

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Speaker 1: didn't say anything at all. Would happen about that? Interesting? Interesting, guys,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious to dactor Jen Mann, marriage family therapist, host

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Speaker 1: of Couples Therapy on v H one and the Doctor

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Speaker 1: Jen Show on Serious Sex m also author of The

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Speaker 1: Relationship Fixed, Doctor Jen. Now we see her when the

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Speaker 1: guy won't come back to he're starting to call his

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Speaker 1: college age daughter. Yeah, stackers are obsessive good personalities, and

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Speaker 1: they tend to have these repetitive thoughts patterns. They become

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Speaker 1: so preoccupied with their target that sometimes they're unable to sleep,

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Speaker 1: they can't even eat, they abandon their jobs. This is

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Speaker 1: someone who was a full fledged obsession. And what typically

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Speaker 1: is the trigger for this kind of personality is a rejection.

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Speaker 1: You see it over and over again that when this

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Speaker 1: type of personality is rejected, it becomes the critical blow.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of the time these kind of stalkers

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Speaker 1: they see themselves as victims being led on or toyed with,

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Speaker 1: and because they have such an enormous sphere of abandonment,

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Speaker 1: they lose their ability to reason and it becomes impossible

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Speaker 1: to let them down easy, and they become just obsessive.

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Speaker 1: They get caught up in that cycle and then they

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Speaker 1: do these crazy kind of things. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: our cut five. This is our friend John Limley at

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Speaker 1: crime Online. Metropolitan East detective Luke French described the scene

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Speaker 1: in detail. Hickman was found face down dead on the

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Speaker 1: floor in his living room. The autopsy showed he was

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Speaker 1: shot five times, at least once from close range. The

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Speaker 1: shots were to his head, neck and face. One shot

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Speaker 1: was to the arm. French reported that bullet holes, ricochet marks,

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Speaker 1: and shell casings were found in the living and bedroom

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Speaker 1: of the apartment. At least one spent bullet was found

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Speaker 1: as well. A black Ruger handgun was on the floor

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Speaker 1: near Hickman's body. To the right of his body was

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Speaker 1: a single long fingernail. M okay to you former police chief,

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Speaker 1: former sheriff, now private investigator, Dan Korcentino, that's telling me

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Speaker 1: a lot the forensics. It sounds like she chased him

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Speaker 1: through the apartment, because you've got shell casings all over

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Speaker 1: the apartment. Yeah, personal, DES's somewhat remarkable how this entire

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Speaker 1: story unfolded. As your guests have described it. There's no

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Speaker 1: doubt upon the entrance into this long hallway of the

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Speaker 1: apartment that's described by the Metropolitan Police that she ended

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Speaker 1: up toward the rear of the living room and there

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Speaker 1: must have been a discussion taking place. But subsequently she

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Speaker 1: started firing five rounds into him, and there had to

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Speaker 1: be at least were counting two to three other rounds

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Speaker 1: that were fired within the apartment itself. The very first round,

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Speaker 1: if I could just share with his second left arm,

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Speaker 1: and it exited the left back, which basically tells me

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Speaker 1: that he was probably approaching her to take the gun

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Speaker 1: away from her speculation, but that would be my first thought,

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Speaker 1: and she was hit. When he was hit, then she

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Speaker 1: continued firing, and to the point of even standing very

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Speaker 1: close to him in shooting a one right into the

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Speaker 1: back of his head, which is just very tragic with

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Speaker 1: all with malice and intempt from the very beginning when

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Speaker 1: she left to come to Washington, DC. This was her plan,

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Speaker 1: I believe in the very beginning. Yeah, why come all

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Speaker 1: that way with a weapon? It reminds me a lot

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Speaker 1: of Jodi Arius, who literally crosses the desert to get

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Speaker 1: to Travis Alexander to kill him when he decides to

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Speaker 1: be with another woman. I want to go to doctor

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Speaker 1: Priya Banerjee, board certified forensic pathologist and she can be

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Speaker 1: found at anchor Forensic Pathology dot com. Doctor Priya. I

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Speaker 1: had a case once where a stalker comes into an

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Speaker 1: apartment to kill a college co ed and the coed

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Speaker 1: sees what's happening and holds her hand up and she

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Speaker 1: ends up getting a shot through the hand and it

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Speaker 1: goes through part of her face. I'm wondering if in

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Speaker 1: this case Hickman didn't raise his arm up to protect

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Speaker 1: himself and the first shot goes through his arm and

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Speaker 1: comes out his back. Could be that way, Oh totally.

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Speaker 1: That that's very you know possible if the if the

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Speaker 1: wounds can line up, you know, and that's a normal

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Speaker 1: response too, like you know, hold up, what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: We are fighting and now you have a gun. You know.

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Speaker 1: The other thing I want to say is it's not

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Speaker 1: just one shot. I mean it's to the face, the head,

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Speaker 1: and the neck, all very you know, important sort of

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Speaker 1: protected areas. That is hate, that is intentional, And you know,

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Speaker 1: does that mean he couldn't even have an open casket

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Speaker 1: funeral if if his face is so injured you have

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00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: to think about that. I mean, that's how disfiguring these

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Speaker 1: wounds can be. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. It reminds

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Speaker 1: me of a case where a mother shot her children

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Speaker 1: down in Florida. She was a high level linguist in

425
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: the military and she shot both her children in the

426
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 1: mouth and said they had a sassy mouth and she

427
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: shot them in the mouth because they was talked back

428
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: to her. Another case where a killer girlfriend shoots her

429
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: aspiring lawyer boyfriend after he is planning a date with

430
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: somebody else. She shoots him in the face and says, oh,

431
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: I gave him the nose job he always wanted. Shooting

432
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: somebody in the head or the face, in my mind, yeah,

433
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 1: can often reveal some type of motive. It's kind of

434
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: hard to get into the mind of a kill a girlfriend.

435
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,239
Speaker 1: Take a list. After in john Linley, police talk to

436
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: multiple witnesses, one of whom said they heard shots while

437
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: outside the building, heard a woman scream, oh my God,

438
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: and then saw a woman walking back and forth on

439
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: a balcony. Other witnesses told police they heard a woman

440
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: say help me after multiple shots went off. After being

441
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: released from the hospital, Dix was taken to a police station,

442
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: where she once again complained of memory loss. During an

443
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 1: interview with detectives, Dix asked police for some sort of

444
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: information that made jog her memory about what happened. According

445
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: to court filings, when shown a photograph of Hickman, Dix

446
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 1: began crying and saying, get it away from me, Tilexa's tusha.

447
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: Did I hear that correctly? That neighbors heard her scream out,

448
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: help me, help me after the series of shots, not before, Yes,

449
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,239
Speaker 1: and so that's what they thought, that perhaps he had

450
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: shot her. Nobody had heard, but they didn't hear him

451
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: screaming at all. Okay, I want you to take a

452
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 1: listen to our friend Delia and Gonsalvaza WUSA nine. After

453
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: police cuffed her, court records say they opened her purse

454
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: to hear someone on speaker phone. It was her mother

455
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: on the cell phone. According to the court records, she

456
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: told police her daughter said quote, he pushed me and

457
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: I shot him. Dix was checked out at the hospital.

458
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: Doctor says she displayed no signs of trauma. The court

459
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: records indicate during her police interview, Dix was shown a

460
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: picture of Hickman. She responded by saying, in part, please

461
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: make sure he is gone. You don't do people you

462
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: love like that. I'm sorry. Well, she's not in the

463
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: forest and satellite. She won't be the last stalker turned

464
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: kill her girlfriend. Take a listen to our friends at kphotv. Phoenix.

465
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: I felt like I meant my soul meet and everything

466
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: was just the way it was, and I thought we

467
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: would just do what everybody else did and we would

468
00:30:58,280 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: just like get married and everything would be fine. But

469
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,959
Speaker 1: that's not what happened. Jacqueline Addis claims she went on

470
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: three dates with a Paradise Valley man she met through

471
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: an online dating service for millionaire matchmaking. Court records say

472
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: Addis sent the victim sixty five thousand text messages, including

473
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: threats to kill him, where his body parts and bathe

474
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 1: in his blood. Addis does not deny the volume of

475
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: text messages, but she would not get into specifics. She did, however,

476
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: regret the nature of some of those messages. When you're

477
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: finding love, not everything is perfect. This was a journey,

478
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: and I want to apologize because intended to hurt or

479
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: scare the victim. And she doesn't blame him for her incarceration. No,

480
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: I love him. Just hearing her voice squeves me out totally.

481
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: I love him. Sixty five thousand texts threatening to kill him,

482
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: where his body parts, embathed, his blood. Gee, I wonder

483
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: why they broke up. Okay, that's one case. Take a

484
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: listen to this. This is Eric Sandoval from our friends

485
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: at k at WKMG. Ossiola County Sheriff's investigators say a

486
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: woman called nine one one around noon today from this

487
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: home on Blackpool Way. She said someone she knew was

488
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: trying to get inside and he was armed. When deputies arrived,

489
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: they say they confronted a man matching the description a

490
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: block away. They identified him as twenty year old Kai

491
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: Douglas Williams, and inside the house, they say they found

492
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: his estranged girlfriend, eighteen year old Larissa Borrows, shot dead.

493
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: They lets use my best friend. Drew Smith says he's

494
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: known Borrow since the second grade and he lived down

495
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: the street. It's heartbroken. His home chess Field's empty when

496
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: you lose somebody that means so much to you. Smith

497
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: said the couple had a little boy and they also

498
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: had problems. New six investigated and, according to the Ossola

499
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: County Court records, Williams wasn't supposed to go near Borrows.

500
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: He had a restraining order after a case of domestic violence.

501
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: Her friends tell us he set her car on fire

502
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: here at school. He had also been arrested for stalking Borrows.

503
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a surefire way to get your loved

504
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: one back, to set their car on fire, jocor gin Man,

505
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: what is going on in these people's minds? Well, this

506
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: is some serious, serious mental health issues. This is deeply pathological,

507
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: and these are people who, in their obsession with this

508
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: other person, in their kind of it gets blurry for them,

509
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: the fantasy and putting perfume of the pig's blurring. He

510
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: set her car on fire. The other one sixty five

511
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: thousand text messages. Then, in this case, the woman drives

512
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 1: five hundred plus miles to con front her lover of

513
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: just three months and the parking a lot and then

514
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: goes on to sheeting. But that's just the tip of

515
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: the iceberg. Take a listen to our friend Amy Powell

516
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 1: at KABC seven are cut thirteen. Their homeowner tells us

517
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: the woman who got stuck inside his chimney this morning

518
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 1: has been on his roof before he met her online

519
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: and during their brief relationship. He says it took a

520
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 1: disturbing turn. First her hands appear, then her arms. Finally,

521
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: firefighters are able to pull a woman out of the

522
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: chimney she became trapped in early this morning. Neighbors were

523
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 1: awakened by her cries around five am. I just hear

524
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 1: this calling. Eye witnessed Robert Fisher shot this video as

525
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,800
Speaker 1: firefighters worked to free thirty year old Hanno Veva Nunia's

526
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: figueroa from the chimney of the home on the nineteen

527
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 1: hundred block of Woodside Drive. They had to dismantle it

528
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,359
Speaker 1: brick by brick. She can be seen wedged inside, her

529
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: hands over her head. Fisher's wife texted the homeowner, who

530
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: was out at a party. Hey, you won't believe this.

531
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: There's somebody in your chimney, Okay, Alexis tres Check. That's

532
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: quite the calling card. Who wouldn't fall in love with

533
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: a great girl like that? Having to dismantle your chimney

534
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: brick by brick because your ex girlfriend is stuck in it?

535
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,760
Speaker 1: And did you catch the beginning? It's not the first

536
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: time she's been up on his roof. When these ladies

537
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: cannot let go. And the interesting thing is that nothing

538
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: warns them away from it. They can't think that, like

539
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: I would never consider climbing down a chimney to get

540
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: into my ex boyfriend's house, but because that's what nobody does,

541
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 1: Like there could be a fire burning in it. And

542
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: they never saw the movie Gremlins when they were a

543
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: little where the dad got stuck in the chimney and

544
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: died and ruined Christmas, like you just you don't know.

545
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: You're checking a lot of your investigative reporting from movies.

546
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 1: So unless Grimlin's was a documentary, I don't really think

547
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: it app here, although I did just recently quite the incredible,

548
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: So I don't have a leg to stand on. James

549
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: shall Nut. We often see it again in movies and

550
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: TV and books, works of fiction where the per would

551
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 1: rather see the victim dead then let them go on

552
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: with their life or be with someone else. But it's

553
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 1: not fiction, shall Nut, Now, it's every day, real wife.

554
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 1: I mean, it happens all the time, and it's you know,

555
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: it's a level of selfishness, it's a level of possession.

556
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: And these people are psychotic. I mean, it happens frequently,

557
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: but aren't there red flags, doctor jen Man, Sometimes there

558
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: are and I think also that, um, sometimes there are

559
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: red flags and people don't listen to their instincts. And

560
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: you know, Gavin Debacker word a whole book about the

561
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: gift of fear that when you get that feeling in

562
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: your stomach, we got to listen to it. And these

563
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: people do tend to show sign being highly obstive very

564
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: early on in the relationship. Yeah, I mean, and you

565
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,720
Speaker 1: think sixty five thousand texts would be a red flag

566
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: that you need to break up? Yeah, I think sixty

567
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: five thousand texts is a little bit of a red flague.

568
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: It sounds like a sitcom, a bad sitcom, and a

569
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: freak show. In this situation, I don't get it, but

570
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: I do understand the obsessiveness. I understand the control, and

571
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 1: in our business, all of our business, we understand how

572
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: that becomes a connecting point to the potential of committing

573
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: a crime with intent and malice because of the isolation,

574
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: the other person is placing you in the rejection and

575
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: now your options start to become limited depending upon your mindset. Yeah,

576
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,919
Speaker 1: it's all in your own mind. So this goes from

577
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: works of fiction to harsh reality with killer girlfriends Nancy

578
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 1: Grace Crime Story, signing off goodbye friend,