Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Jason
Speaker 1: Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Matt Townsend is here with us.
Speaker 1: We love talking to him about all things retail. You know,
Speaker 1: just one of the guys we missed. First of all,
Speaker 1: how are you, man, I'm good. I've been hanging out
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn for three months. Uh so how's that going.
Speaker 1: It's going okay. You know, it's raining right now, so
Speaker 1: for you, yeah, we get it. We totally get it. Um.
Speaker 1: Speaking of rain and kind of being kind of great
Speaker 1: man the retail industry. I feel like every every day
Speaker 1: it's something new. And you know, here's an iconic company
Speaker 1: tailor to the president's Brooks Brothers done bankruptcy, Yeah, bankruptcy um. Yeah.
Speaker 1: This follows several other big names, Juicy Penny Um being
Speaker 1: one of them. You know, Brooks Brothers, Historic Brand Um.
Speaker 1: Anybody sort of in the business world probably knows the name.
Speaker 1: But you know, they were struggling before Covid UM. And
Speaker 1: with what we see with a lot of retailers is
Speaker 1: that covid really accelerated some of their faults and sort
Speaker 1: of if they were headed down a bad path, this
Speaker 1: really accelerated. UM. Them even further into that into that path.
Speaker 1: And um, but this is going to say that Brooks
Speaker 1: Brothers is going away and they go in to bankruptcy
Speaker 1: with a loan to help them get through bankruptcy. You know,
Speaker 1: they have a plan to you know, shift more to
Speaker 1: casual wear, to kind of they still believe the brand
Speaker 1: has a lot of value in it. Um. But what
Speaker 1: will likely happen is they'll clean up their balance sheet
Speaker 1: and hopefully find a buyer that will come in and
Speaker 1: by the by the company and the brand and take
Speaker 1: it from there. That's that's the goal right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so what happened with this specific name, Matt, I
Speaker 1: mean Brooks Frothers, I have to say, I mean, I
Speaker 1: agret this is going to be a shocker to you,
Speaker 1: Carol Master, But I grew up a little preppy. In fact,
Speaker 1: I believe my mother can keep me honest. Some of
Speaker 1: these I believe quick flex. I was in a Brooks
Speaker 1: Brothers fashion show when I was about six years old.
Speaker 1: And um, Debbie, if you're listening, I would like a picture.
Speaker 1: I want I want proof and I just want the
Speaker 1: picture to tweet out. Um So, but I mean, this
Speaker 1: is this isn't as Carol said, a you know tailor
Speaker 1: to the President's. I mean, this is a really well
Speaker 1: known name that had been doing well for a long
Speaker 1: time until it wasn't. Yeah, he gone through a couple
Speaker 1: different owners. It's always been a private company. UM. And
Speaker 1: you know the current owner is Italian. It comes from
Speaker 1: a sort of fashion family. And you know, he he
Speaker 1: had realized there was an issue. Try to make the
Speaker 1: brand peelmore to younger people, younger men, be more fresh
Speaker 1: and vibrant, go after some of the sportswear category. But
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, the big problem is
Speaker 1: men just aren't wearing as many suits as they used
Speaker 1: to um, even in sort of once formal settings. UM.
Speaker 1: And and then and on top of that, lots of
Speaker 1: new competitors UM come up with you know, custom suits
Speaker 1: for a couple hundred bucks. Um, you know, when you're
Speaker 1: much less than you've got a Brooks Brothers suit for
Speaker 1: So it's a combination of just yet nimbore, nimble competition
Speaker 1: coming in the floor prices and good quality and just
Speaker 1: the category itself is just in decline. Well, let's bring
Speaker 1: in courtesy of Matt. He brought along a friend, Matt Rubel,
Speaker 1: he's former CEO and chairman of Collective Brands, former chairman
Speaker 1: presidency of Khan, also CEO of Pepe Jeans. Um someone
Speaker 1: who understands the retail world like Matt. Um just so well, Matt,
Speaker 1: nice to have you here with us. You know, we
Speaker 1: kicked off our conversation talking a little bit with Matt
Speaker 1: just to give us a low down on what happened
Speaker 1: with Brooks Brothers. But it does feel like we said
Speaker 1: at the top that every day, you know, there's a
Speaker 1: new retailer that's filing for bankruptcy. Um, we know we're overstored.
Speaker 1: How do you see it? Where does the retail world go?
Speaker 1: And what does Brooks Brothers, you know, closing or bankruptcy,
Speaker 1: I should say, you know, tell us, Um, well, first
Speaker 1: of all, Hall high grade to be with you, Um
Speaker 1: and listen, you've got to find it. There are about
Speaker 1: a million there are a little over a million stores
Speaker 1: in the United States today and they sell anything from
Speaker 1: need based product you know, like Walmart and things like that,
Speaker 1: you know, to aspirational products UM war trend related consumer
Speaker 1: products like apparel and and and it is the general
Speaker 1: consensus that we will lose between a hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: and two hundred thousand of those stores over the next
Speaker 1: twelve d eight eighteen months. And that was a momentum
Speaker 1: and a movement that was in place because of, you know,
Speaker 1: the ability to have brands come to you via your
Speaker 1: phone and via your computer, via your iPad, etcetera um
Speaker 1: that was accelerated during COVID, as well as the fact
Speaker 1: that when your doors are shut, you have no cash
Speaker 1: flow and you have no customers, and so they have
Speaker 1: to do it. So let's bring it down to the
Speaker 1: trend related consumer products versus supermarkets and and you know
Speaker 1: things like that. Um, I would just say the way
Speaker 1: customers are engaging as different and and Brooks Brothers ended
Speaker 1: up with you know, Claudio is a great um, a
Speaker 1: great long time business friend and a wonderful, wonderful guy.
Speaker 1: But what happened here is that you have a traditional
Speaker 1: brand in a slow moving category. I amend that did
Speaker 1: not evolve as quickly with the change in tape, and
Speaker 1: in conjunction with that, when the door shut, and also
Speaker 1: everybody goes and starts to be even more casual. So
Speaker 1: the movement toward work at home, the movement toward different
Speaker 1: consumer behaviors, and how people will be will just chop
Speaker 1: their marketplace UM by a tremendous amount, and they can't
Speaker 1: support the overheads that are in place. That doesn't mean
Speaker 1: it's not a great brand. That doesn't mean it can't
Speaker 1: sell product going forward. UM. It can, but just not
Speaker 1: in the structure. And that's why you see the chapter
Speaker 1: eleven that came across. Yeah, Matt, you've run brands, You've
Speaker 1: analyzed brands, UM, you've talked to investors about brands. Given
Speaker 1: what you know about Brooks Brothers, would you be a
Speaker 1: buyer of the Brooks Brothers brand or company at this point, um,
Speaker 1: given that they're going to be, you know, going through
Speaker 1: a bidding process. And if so, what would you do
Speaker 1: with the brand? Um? The answer is yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that the brand Again, it's all the matter of you know, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, at what price. But the brand has tremendous awareness. UM.
Speaker 1: It stands for something very classic UH with it twist
Speaker 1: in uh in a long long terradition and has a
Speaker 1: great international appeal. So UM, what I would do is,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of bring it back to its route.
Speaker 1: I would upgrade its UM product content to really move
Speaker 1: to a higher level. I would UM refocused it. I
Speaker 1: would have a very very few stores. I would have
Speaker 1: international stores as well as the others, and then I
Speaker 1: would kind of create an engaging, you know, website that
Speaker 1: deals with UM a reinterpretation of how that consumer, the
Speaker 1: conceptual consumer that you know thirty years ago was relevant,
Speaker 1: how that consumer addresses today and how you bring him
Speaker 1: to life in his lifestyle through great tailoring and through
Speaker 1: great high quality product delivered vertically. There were being able
Speaker 1: to do it at better, better value. So you know,
Speaker 1: that's what I would do. But it's more likely gonna
Speaker 1: get fought by a licensing company or a brand you
Speaker 1: know company that's going to go out and chop it
Speaker 1: up into different categories and and it'll get massed out.
Speaker 1: So that's that's my perspective. UM. Just follow about the
Speaker 1: broader retail landscape. UM. You mentioned, you know, the extect
Speaker 1: for all the store closings, given what is happening with
Speaker 1: the virus now and that you know many states are
Speaker 1: going back into shutting down parts of the economy. UM.
Speaker 1: Do you think there's room for that? UM? I think
Speaker 1: you said something like two stores to being even bigger,
Speaker 1: that this could be even a larger fallout for the
Speaker 1: industry previously, it really depends on the real estate UM
Speaker 1: marketplace and how pungible that they are, meaning how flexible
Speaker 1: they'll be with working and then ultimately how the banks
Speaker 1: will be with the real estate UM groups as well,
Speaker 1: you know, because the current rent structure would not allow
Speaker 1: UM stores to on the diminished demand that one is
Speaker 1: going to see in certain categories UM work. That being said,
Speaker 1: there's helping wellness concepts. There's other concepts that are you
Speaker 1: know out there that are doing fine UM. But you know, restaurants,
Speaker 1: there's about six hundred and eighty thousand or restaurant locations
Speaker 1: around the United States. You know, fast casual and you
Speaker 1: know quick QUSR is going to be fine, but you
Speaker 1: know casual and fine dining there in trouble and they've
Speaker 1: got some real issues. And so you're gonna see you know,
Speaker 1: of those UM go away and a lot of the
Speaker 1: creativity that's come to bear here. You know, you live
Speaker 1: in Brooklyn, so you get to see all the great
Speaker 1: creativity here in more than May. We have some great,
Speaker 1: great restaurants too. They're going to go out of business
Speaker 1: and it's UM, it's just a shame that the creativity
Speaker 1: that's been layered into this marketplace is going to go away. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna check out at Danielle Blue a little bit
Speaker 1: later on to to just talk about because he's slowly reopening.
Speaker 1: But you know, everybody's learning to pivot UM. Matt, We've
Speaker 1: just got about seconds left here. You know, who wins
Speaker 1: ultimately in this and what's the biggest consumer trend that
Speaker 1: comes out of the virus? Just quickly? Who wins? Uh?
Speaker 1: Quite honestly, it's going to be bar belled. Is the
Speaker 1: people with capital who can really go out and you know,
Speaker 1: kind of work their way through this. And then it's
Speaker 1: going to be the creative new businesses UM that are
Speaker 1: really close to their consumers and they're fast, so they
Speaker 1: have to be you know, what's the best supply chain,
Speaker 1: the fast one. What's the best way to deal with
Speaker 1: your customer as closely as you possibly can to make
Speaker 1: it a personalized experience. You know the Chanel group at
Speaker 1: the luxury end, peopleould say, oh my god, they're gonna
Speaker 1: have a hard time. Well, they're developing technologies that are
Speaker 1: helping UM. There are all sorts of companies that are
Speaker 1: developing unique technologies. So people who can pivot UM and
Speaker 1: be fast and then those who have capital in scale
Speaker 1: makes sense. Well, we're gonna leave it there. Thank you
Speaker 1: both so much. What a great conversation. Chairman of the
Speaker 1: executive board at mid Ocean Partners of long history in
Speaker 1: the retail business, which you just proved with some great insights,
Speaker 1: and our own Matt Towns and editor for Bloomberg joining
Speaker 1: us from Brooklyn. The two mats really delivering here. You're
Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason
Speaker 1: Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. So I'm going to go back
Speaker 1: to a story Jason I mentioned it before because I
Speaker 1: do want to get um Jimmie Metzel's thoughts on this.
Speaker 1: It was a Bloomberg News story. It was covered by
Speaker 1: Nick Wadhams. We talked about it yesterday. It's covering how
Speaker 1: the US is inability to handle the pandemic is basically
Speaker 1: hurting its economic might and ultimately as a result of that,
Speaker 1: it's geopolitical influence. At the same time, we know President
Speaker 1: Trump there's a lot of stuff going on between the
Speaker 1: U S and China. They are looking to ban TikTok
Speaker 1: in the US as one way to retaliate against China.
Speaker 1: Over its handling of the virus. Meantime, China is moving
Speaker 1: full steam ahead. So once again we want some insight
Speaker 1: on what's going on between the US and China and
Speaker 1: where China is headed back with us. Is Jamie Metzel
Speaker 1: Senior Fellow at Atlantic Council Technology Futurist. He's former director
Speaker 1: on the U. S National Security Council at the State
Speaker 1: Department and on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Any wrote
Speaker 1: Hacking Darwin, Genetic Engineering, and the Future of Humanity. We've
Speaker 1: talked about him about so many big macro issues, and
Speaker 1: Jamie's back with us on the phone and near How
Speaker 1: are you? I'm you know? Would I always say? Is
Speaker 1: I am good? But this is a sure crazy world?
Speaker 1: So what can you do? Well? So where do we
Speaker 1: start when it comes to US and China? Because I
Speaker 1: do feel like there's a ton of stories already on
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg um today. But we've certainly seen the momentum
Speaker 1: pick up over the last couple of weeks, in the
Speaker 1: last month or so. So what are you watching, Jamie? Well,
Speaker 1: certainly U S China relations are bad and they are
Speaker 1: getting worse, and after so many decades of coupling, we're
Speaker 1: seeing a pretty aggressive and rapid decoupling. And the really
Speaker 1: hard part is that while China is really getting its
Speaker 1: act together, even though as you know Carol and Jason
Speaker 1: I have a huge criticism of China and the origins
Speaker 1: of the pandemic in terms of responding, they've done a
Speaker 1: pretty great job in their economy is starting to come back.
Speaker 1: And the United States, with our spectacular failure to respond
Speaker 1: to the pandemic, this is a country that if the
Speaker 1: pandemic wasn't enough, um, having a leader who's hitting us
Speaker 1: against each other is just adding fuel to that to
Speaker 1: that fire. And so we all live in this world
Speaker 1: created by our parents and grandparents and great grandparents who
Speaker 1: fought in one two world wars when the Cold War,
Speaker 1: and now we are America is kind of falling apart.
Speaker 1: And it's not just the future of America the mistake,
Speaker 1: but the future of the world. Yeah, I mean, we're
Speaker 1: losing this war at the moment, Jamie. Isn't that fair
Speaker 1: to say? I think we are and and you use
Speaker 1: the word war, it's a very strong term. But there's
Speaker 1: a there's a competition, and we have all grown up
Speaker 1: in a world where the United States in many ways
Speaker 1: set the terms of that competition, whether it's free trade,
Speaker 1: open markets, free speech, and the United States was always
Speaker 1: imperfect um. But now the world is is America is
Speaker 1: not playing the traditional role that it's played. We feel
Speaker 1: just things are falling apart, and China is moving very
Speaker 1: aggressively to make the world look and feel a bit
Speaker 1: more like China. That's we're seeing now in Hong Kong.
Speaker 1: We're seeing now with the um with the Chinese national
Speaker 1: security laws applying in Hong Kong apply to people all
Speaker 1: around the world, um, at least according to Chinese law.
Speaker 1: So that that's what's at stake is what does the
Speaker 1: world look like that we want to live in? And
Speaker 1: the United States is losing influence by the day. Well,
Speaker 1: and you know we're Bloomberg, right and we care about
Speaker 1: how things impact us, certainly on a social level, but
Speaker 1: on an economic level, on a business level, what does
Speaker 1: this mean for US businesses who have been since I
Speaker 1: began my career in business news, it was all about
Speaker 1: tapping into the Chinese market and their billion plus at
Speaker 1: that time population and consumer base. So what does it
Speaker 1: mean for American businesses? Well, American businesses are going to
Speaker 1: have to really think hard about what's their right relationship
Speaker 1: with China. And that doesn't mean no relationship, It just means,
Speaker 1: um that a lot of the old assumptions will no
Speaker 1: longer be true and certainly will be very difficult for
Speaker 1: American companies to operate in China if they do anything
Speaker 1: other than what the Chinese government wants. And that's true
Speaker 1: for small companies, but even for big companies like Apple.
Speaker 1: Um And it's certainly the case that uh that American
Speaker 1: companies will have less legal protection in in China because
Speaker 1: the United States government just has less and less leverage.
Speaker 1: And I think that over time, um, it's not just
Speaker 1: decoupling between the United States and China, but the world
Speaker 1: is going to more evolve into two broad competitive ecosystems,
Speaker 1: the greater US competitive ecosystem and the greater China competitive ecosystem.
Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean that everyone will have to be
Speaker 1: the other countries and communities will have to be all
Speaker 1: in with one or the other, kind of like in
Speaker 1: the Cold War. You're gonna it's going to be a
Speaker 1: really important strategic decision that every company and every country makes,
Speaker 1: is where do you fit in relation to those two poles? Well,
Speaker 1: and speaking of decisions. I mean, Jason Wright, we came
Speaker 1: on air and one of the headlines that crossed was
Speaker 1: Google scrapping its cloud initiative in China, and specifically in
Speaker 1: Part two, concerns over geopolitical tensions and the pandemic, according
Speaker 1: to those in the know. So you know, Jamie, we're
Speaker 1: already seeing companies make decisions about kind of where they
Speaker 1: want to play. It's true, um, and yet companies liked
Speaker 1: what we'll use. Going to this Google example, there are
Speaker 1: now some really strong Chinese competitors. So in the early
Speaker 1: days it was, well, China is ripping off source code
Speaker 1: and that's this whole Huawei. I mean, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of Cisco that's in Huawei which is just stolen code. Um.
Speaker 1: But now there are these national champion Chinese companies that
Speaker 1: have huge advantages because they are back. They're essentially in
Speaker 1: many ways arms of the state, backed by massive resources,
Speaker 1: by a captive consumer base, and the next staff of
Speaker 1: this global China, which is what the Chinese leadership wants
Speaker 1: is for China to be the leading country in the
Speaker 1: world by And that doesn't mean it's leading like they
Speaker 1: have bigger companies. It means that we're all in many
Speaker 1: ways living in China's world, like for the last seventy
Speaker 1: five years, most everyone has lived in America's world. And
Speaker 1: if we don't want that, we better get our act
Speaker 1: together here at home. Jamie. We're so happy to have
Speaker 1: you here, in part because so much has happens. Is
Speaker 1: the last time we talked to you, uh, and it
Speaker 1: wasn't that long ago. To be honest, I want to
Speaker 1: talk to you about sort of social protests, uh. Injustice.
Speaker 1: We're seeing it globally, we're obviously seeing it uh in
Speaker 1: an amazing way here domestically, but we also can't forget
Speaker 1: what we've seen go on in Hong Kong. Talk about
Speaker 1: Hong Kong first and then maybe bring it back to
Speaker 1: the United States. Yeah, So what we're seeing in Hong
Speaker 1: Kong is connected to the conversation that we had in
Speaker 1: the last block, in the sense that China has its
Speaker 1: view of the world. It's how it has its sense
Speaker 1: of how everybody should be and behave in the level
Speaker 1: of control that China should have. The United States has
Speaker 1: a very very different view, and that's why for so
Speaker 1: many decades, the United States and the role of the
Speaker 1: United States has countered in many ways the ambitions of
Speaker 1: countries like China, Soviet You and and and others. With
Speaker 1: the United States now on its knees, UM, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of maneuverability for other countries like China and Russia
Speaker 1: that have designs that are different from ours. So China,
Speaker 1: as you, Jason and Carroll, No, they signed of their
Speaker 1: own accord the basic law in and it afforded the
Speaker 1: people of Hong Kong is certain this one country, two
Speaker 1: systems model with basic rights for fifty years until un
Speaker 1: and this national security lot just strips it away. And
Speaker 1: in in a different time, the United States would have
Speaker 1: played a very active role in the United Kingdom saying hey,
Speaker 1: wait a second, there's an international agreement that's been registered
Speaker 1: with the u N you signed it. This is a
Speaker 1: clear a clear violation of that UM. But now UM.
Speaker 1: But in this environment, it's kind of anything goes. And
Speaker 1: that's why China is moving so aggressively, and the people
Speaker 1: of Hong Kong don't really have a place to appeal
Speaker 1: to UH. And that's that's what's so magic. I mean,
Speaker 1: their basic rights are being stripped and there's nothing they
Speaker 1: can do. And that's how that's how people have always
Speaker 1: felt within oppressive societies. But now that that spaces is growing,
Speaker 1: and and that's the issue, is that that in our
Speaker 1: world there are the structures, there are the superstructures of
Speaker 1: laws and and sovereign states, and then there's there are cultures. Um.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't coincidental that in the is we had
Speaker 1: more and more fascist states because that was a trend,
Speaker 1: and then in the nineties we had more democratic states
Speaker 1: because that was a trend. And now we're seeing a
Speaker 1: return to a much more dangerous world. Um. And it
Speaker 1: wasn't that the old world was so great. They were
Speaker 1: all kinds of cracks and breaks and crevices and shortcomings
Speaker 1: in the old world. But if you had a problem
Speaker 1: with what was before, you're really going to have a problem,
Speaker 1: in my view, with what's what's coming. So is it
Speaker 1: it's not just the US withdrawing though, like you said,
Speaker 1: who's going to keep China in check? Right, Jamie, It's
Speaker 1: not just the US kind of withdrawing. It's other countries
Speaker 1: as well. Absolutely, But at least since and even before that,
Speaker 1: the United States has had a special role as kind
Speaker 1: of the rally er in chief that we have all
Speaker 1: these allies and partners and friends. The United States played
Speaker 1: the leading role in creating the United Nations, supporting the
Speaker 1: concept of human rights and international law, and then the
Speaker 1: other countries played in many ways, and they played a
Speaker 1: very critical role, but the United States was the leader.
Speaker 1: And now with the United States pulling back and with
Speaker 1: China very aggressively stepping up, there's this period of disarray
Speaker 1: um where there's not a systemic response. There's not a
Speaker 1: systemic response here in the United States where we have
Speaker 1: such deep problems, and there's also not a systemic response
Speaker 1: to these big issues globally. And it's it's not just
Speaker 1: Hong Kong. It's we have three billion people on Earth
Speaker 1: who are living in extreme poverty, and now under covid UM,
Speaker 1: those people are going to be in much had much
Speaker 1: greater threat. Who is leading the charge to help those people?
Speaker 1: And and traditionally the United States would rally everybody else,
Speaker 1: And now we're in disarray, and it's it's unclear whether
Speaker 1: we will or we can or will do that. I
Speaker 1: have so many questions, Jamie, as I always do. You
Speaker 1: come on to two things. You said. You said the
Speaker 1: US is on its knees, and I just wish you
Speaker 1: could if you would just give a little bit more
Speaker 1: on that. And I also wonder, you know, what's changed.
Speaker 1: Was this China's mission all along and shame on the
Speaker 1: rest of the world and not acknowledging it, or was
Speaker 1: it that China now is more established, as you said,
Speaker 1: they've got global competitors and global companies that they don't
Speaker 1: necessarily have to rely so much on the rest of
Speaker 1: the world. Pick one, pick up, so you know so
Speaker 1: so china It's mission was always mean. It didn't ever
Speaker 1: want to play a secondary role, even in this US
Speaker 1: led world, And that was always China's ambition. After the
Speaker 1: two thousand and the old thing used to be um
Speaker 1: to kind of lay low and wait for your moment.
Speaker 1: And then there was the two thousand two thousand nine
Speaker 1: financial crisis, China became very aggressive. The US got its
Speaker 1: act together, and it turned out that that was a
Speaker 1: big mistake. But this is the time I think China
Speaker 1: recognizes that if they want to change the superstructure of
Speaker 1: the world, this is the moment to do it. So
Speaker 1: that's changed, and the United States we are now doing
Speaker 1: to ourselves what our worst enemies have tried and failed
Speaker 1: to do to us for decades. And that's the tragedy.
Speaker 1: It really is amazing, Uh, everything and how it has
Speaker 1: continued to in many ways just spiral downward. And I
Speaker 1: know you are a hopeful and optimistic guy, Jamie, but
Speaker 1: these are these are difficult times. But we really appreciate
Speaker 1: your insights, your candor. It's Jamie Metsal, Senior Fellow at
Speaker 1: the Atlantic Council, former Natural Security Council official, UM author
Speaker 1: Packing Darwin, which is a terrific book, incredibly timely. Really,
Speaker 1: I have to say, one of the smartest guys that
Speaker 1: that we know. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol
Speaker 1: Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Well, he closed
Speaker 1: his restaurants in New York City, UM before the official
Speaker 1: COVID nineteen man dates from the state. That was just
Speaker 1: a few months ago, and now on the other side
Speaker 1: of the virus. He's finding his way back like the
Speaker 1: rest of us. We were welcoming back. Chef and restaurant
Speaker 1: tour Danielle Blue joining us on the phone from his
Speaker 1: restaurant in New York City. Danielle, it is so nice
Speaker 1: to have you back here on Bloomberg. This is a
Speaker 1: big day for you guys. Tell me, tell us how
Speaker 1: it's going. Thank you Carol, and thank you Jason for
Speaker 1: having me on the show. And well, it's a it's
Speaker 1: a big day. Every day is a big day because
Speaker 1: I think every day we tried to really bring a
Speaker 1: little bit more improvement and also a little bit more
Speaker 1: hope to our businesses. And today we are putting a
Speaker 1: sidewalk cafe at restaurant Danielle. Which restaurant Danielle is twenty
Speaker 1: eight years old. Seven when it was on seventy six Street,
Speaker 1: he used to have a sidewalk cafe when I moved
Speaker 1: to sixty five and never really put a sideboard cafe
Speaker 1: because we had enough room winning inside. And and tonight
Speaker 1: we are doing um because I've started the business of
Speaker 1: delivery and to go Daniel Bully Kitchen, so we're serving
Speaker 1: the menu of Daniel Bully Kitchen on the terrace of Danielle,
Speaker 1: so more casual and more approachable, but fun and and
Speaker 1: and and really it's an opportunity because I think we
Speaker 1: have a beautiful uh facade, we have a beautiful space,
Speaker 1: and that's the only place we can really serve our guests.
Speaker 1: And we felt that it would be good to bring
Speaker 1: more staff and to bring new to bring guests back.
Speaker 1: I have to imagine Danielle, that your clientele, many of
Speaker 1: whom are our listeners, uh so well known across Manhattan
Speaker 1: and the world, they must have been clamoring for this, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, have you been getting a lot of calls
Speaker 1: to people saying, I want to come back in some
Speaker 1: former fashion, come cook for me, yea the ABSORTUNTEI So
Speaker 1: we do that. We have to come cook for me
Speaker 1: by by sending them meal home, of course, and we
Speaker 1: also do package for destination the Emptons or other places.
Speaker 1: People drive miles from the strive state to come and
Speaker 1: pick up a box with all kinds of meals prepared
Speaker 1: for them to take home. But I mean having them
Speaker 1: at the restaurant and being able to again welcome, serve them,
Speaker 1: pamper them, and offer them something we feel, uh it
Speaker 1: makes us very happy and I think it will make
Speaker 1: them very happy our guest. Yes. Well, you know it's interesting, Danielle,
Speaker 1: like we have been talking to a lot of folks,
Speaker 1: especially within your industry, that you've got to figure had
Speaker 1: had a pivot here, right, because it's not like you
Speaker 1: can flip a switch and go back to the way
Speaker 1: it was pre COVID and so it sounds like that's
Speaker 1: what you guys are doing. Yeah, very much. And we
Speaker 1: also opened the West Side. I have a restaurant at
Speaker 1: sixty four Broadway, Bubb Blu and episode Bulue open yesterday
Speaker 1: or this morning actually this morning we opened a P
Speaker 1: three Blue, So it's a retail store where it's open
Speaker 1: all day from breakfast to early evening and people can
Speaker 1: have salads and sandwiches and things who are old, home
Speaker 1: baked and homemade. And then we bubbu as a huge
Speaker 1: There are some sixty four Broadway, so that's very very
Speaker 1: convenient as well. And we took Cafe Bullou up in
Speaker 1: the Berkshire and we did a pop up there in
Speaker 1: a wonderful chateau called the bland Hire. So it really
Speaker 1: we find I mean, it's all this opportunity to try
Speaker 1: to bring back staff. I mean we were more than
Speaker 1: seven hundred and fifty staff and we went down to
Speaker 1: seven people and now we are back up two d
Speaker 1: and twenty total around the different businesses we have reopened,
Speaker 1: and we are pushing up and bringing more people. So wow,
Speaker 1: that's yea. And in terms of capacity, danielle Um, what
Speaker 1: is the I mean, what can you do at at
Speaker 1: what you're opening tonight versus what you would be able
Speaker 1: to do inside? I think I think the terraus is
Speaker 1: only I will say for right now, it's and and
Speaker 1: because you know, if it's if it's beautiful weather, we
Speaker 1: might be able to extend more tables. But if it's
Speaker 1: a little bit greasily like tonight, we want to standder
Speaker 1: the canopy and we have a limitation of about thirty
Speaker 1: five two foury seats, but that's pretty good. And then
Speaker 1: if it's nice weather, we might be able to double
Speaker 1: that size. But that's nothing compared to the size on
Speaker 1: the inside, where normally we have private dining rooms. We
Speaker 1: have the barn lounge, we have the dining room, which
Speaker 1: could almost bring seeds or more. Uh So it's a
Speaker 1: very different business model, and it's definitely not um a
Speaker 1: profitable model, but it's very It motivates us so much
Speaker 1: to do something with the whole concept of outdoor dining.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've knew about it before, but you've probably
Speaker 1: learned more than you ever thought you would about outdoor
Speaker 1: dining given that that's how we're all eating out these days.
Speaker 1: How do you view it? What have you learned about
Speaker 1: it in terms of what you can and can't do,
Speaker 1: and maybe what the future is, given that we're going
Speaker 1: to be in this for some time, I know, and
Speaker 1: and and thanks God, I mean, we're in it in
Speaker 1: the summer right now, and the fall should be mellow
Speaker 1: until at least November. But the the Mayor of New
Speaker 1: York has really up and up, and I think many
Speaker 1: city all over the country of up and up the
Speaker 1: opportunity for restaurate or to be able to put table
Speaker 1: outside in places we will have never been authorized before.
Speaker 1: And they are really helpful, um meaningful, I mean mindful
Speaker 1: of of course the security for the gas, but also
Speaker 1: um really give the chance for the restaurator to have
Speaker 1: a meaningful business outdoor for the time being, for the
Speaker 1: time being, let's say. And of course the fine dining
Speaker 1: restaurant is more complicated, but not too many restaurants as
Speaker 1: outdoors there. As for cafe the small beast Row, we
Speaker 1: have like four or five tables outside. I've seen them
Speaker 1: taking half a block and going around the block with tables.
Speaker 1: So it seems like they have more tables outside and
Speaker 1: inside now. But but it's good, thank God, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: And that there is that opportunity to do it? You know, Um,
Speaker 1: we were talking with our k Crater who covers Um.
Speaker 1: I think, as you know, we love we love talking
Speaker 1: with Kate and and you know we were wondering, you know,
Speaker 1: you were going I thought to talk to Lincoln Center
Speaker 1: about doing maybe big screens for events like the US Open,
Speaker 1: so that maybe diners could watch from barbarous Are you
Speaker 1: doing that? Are you moving ahead with that? Well? Uh,
Speaker 1: I am still convinced that we can do something, and
Speaker 1: I am looking at sponsors. It's all about trying to
Speaker 1: find sponsoring to be able to create something for the moment,
Speaker 1: a little bit of a spontaneous things and for a
Speaker 1: short lived but at least we can do things to
Speaker 1: entertain guests. But I think, um, it is important that
Speaker 1: because the Open is happening, that we are able to
Speaker 1: show it all over town. Um. It's uh, it will
Speaker 1: be fantastic. I mean, I would love to be able
Speaker 1: to show it. That Danielle is needed. But at Lincoln
Speaker 1: Center there is the huge esplanade where I'm sure people
Speaker 1: don't have to crowd than they have the entire War
Speaker 1: of the buildings where they could project the games and
Speaker 1: put some speakers, so I hope there will be you know,
Speaker 1: a trusted to do that of course. And no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to cut you off. And I have
Speaker 1: the and and you know now with the to go
Speaker 1: business or the three, people can grab their little snack
Speaker 1: or sandwich or meal or lunch or dinner and sit
Speaker 1: down and and watch the games during the day. And
Speaker 1: I'm sure than the city can plan uh you know,
Speaker 1: social spacing. So there's really safety first, of course, very important.
Speaker 1: So Danielle, you know, the last time we talked to you, um,
Speaker 1: you know, the the pandemic was very much on in
Speaker 1: in New York City. Unfortunately a very different time, um,
Speaker 1: but obviously not much, not too much has changed, although
Speaker 1: you know, little baby steps forth that we're taking in
Speaker 1: terms of outdoor dining. I do wonder for you because
Speaker 1: at the time you were rightly concerned. I'm sure you
Speaker 1: remain concerned about the future of your business and maybe
Speaker 1: more importantly, the future of fine dining all across the country.
Speaker 1: Where do we stand now? What do you think about
Speaker 1: now when it comes to the future of fine dining. Well,
Speaker 1: for a while, it would have to be slightly recliber
Speaker 1: I mean slightly or strongly recaliber uh in in his
Speaker 1: um ambition of offering, I would say in his size, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we find dining. When we think of fine dining,
Speaker 1: that means we're going to reopen our restaurant inside and
Speaker 1: um in its price. Maybe maybe more option to be
Speaker 1: able to have choice of not having to go for
Speaker 1: tasting manu only, but maybe some sampler option, maybe some
Speaker 1: hours of operation. We may be shrunk down a little
Speaker 1: bit because of the cost of doing business, and so
Speaker 1: you know, less less days of operation will mean more
Speaker 1: control in in the cost of doing business. And uh
Speaker 1: and and slowly get back to where it belonged, because
Speaker 1: I think fine dining will not go away. But I'm
Speaker 1: hoping that restaurant Danielle I can do a pop up
Speaker 1: for the months to come where I create something very casual,
Speaker 1: very disrupting, and very different than Uh. I'm basically covering
Speaker 1: the skin of fine dining and putting a skin of
Speaker 1: a casual place and and but something a little bit
Speaker 1: of a It's like a movie set where you are
Speaker 1: somewhere else for a minute for a time and and
Speaker 1: and I do that with sponsor, and we have some
Speaker 1: wonderful sponsor will want to support my idea and and
Speaker 1: help the restart of fine dining. And I think everybody's
Speaker 1: gonna have to figure it out how to re stop,
Speaker 1: not to become what they were, but to restart something.
Speaker 1: And so that's an opportunity to do that. So I'm
Speaker 1: thinking of people who are listening and saying I want
Speaker 1: in um, is it going to be all reservations or
Speaker 1: reservations and walk ins? So right now, for the Sidewalk
Speaker 1: Cafe at Danielle, it's going to be a reservation some
Speaker 1: day starting at three o'clock in the afternoon until six o'clock.
Speaker 1: And oh but it's at three o'clock. We opened the reservation,
Speaker 1: so we know exactly the weather, we know a mini
Speaker 1: table to put and all that, because there's nothing worse
Speaker 1: than coming to a restaurant and there is no table.
Speaker 1: But we will always keep tables up and with no
Speaker 1: reservation as well, so a portion of it will be
Speaker 1: reservation portion no reservation, so there's always an opportunity that
Speaker 1: a table could get available. All right, Well, we wish
Speaker 1: you only the best of luck and I look forward
Speaker 1: to seeing you soon. Daniel Blue certainly a just one
Speaker 1: of the best names in the business, and so many
Speaker 1: people look to him for his leadership and and have
Speaker 1: and will continue to. So congratulations on taking that step forward.
Speaker 1: Cheff and restaurant tour of course, on the phone from
Speaker 1: restaurant Danielle there in New York City,