1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Happy Friday, Everybody. I'm Holly Fry 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Uh So we talked about 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: Grand Central Terminal this week, Tracy, We sure did. There's 5 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: so much about this that I couldn't really put in 6 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: the episode. One. Cornelius Vanderbilt, Yeah, what a jerk. You know. 7 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 1: It's like the kind family friendly way I will put it. 8 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: But uh, there's a famous quote by him that comes 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: up every time you read anything about him, which is 10 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: that when he was in one of his long ongoing 11 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: feuds with another business person, he would say to them, 12 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,520 Speaker 1: I won't sue you because the courts take too long. 13 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: I'll ruin you, and which he did. I mean, we 14 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: talked about it, you know, pretty askingly, like he would 15 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: just create scenarios where other companies could not survive and 16 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: then say, well, I'll step out of this industry if 17 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: you'll just pay me every month for ever to not 18 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: make more money here. Um. He also, oh, there's some 19 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: I did not go down the rabbit hole too far 20 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: because it was infuriating. He was just deeply misogynist, and 21 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: you know, talked about how he didn't really care about 22 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 1: his daughters because they weren't as important to him as 23 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: his sons. And it's interesting because you'll also sometimes see 24 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: discussions of his wife being really important to the business, 25 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: and she ran business on her own, And I don't 26 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: have a good sense of what their relationship was, but 27 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: I do have a good sense that Cornelia's Vanderbilt was 28 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: a jerk. Yeah. There's also though lots of um fun 29 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: trivia that comes with that story that doesn't necessarily fit 30 00:01:53,920 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: into that narrative. For example, um, when they built Grand 31 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: Central Depot, that meant that New York and Harlem station, 32 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: which had existed prior and was one of the ones 33 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: they were using, were no longer needed, and Vanderbilt sold 34 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: it to P. T. Barnum, And that is where P. T. 35 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: Barnum set up the first iteration of Madison Square Garden huh, 36 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: which is just a cool New York trivia thing. Yeah. Um, 37 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: we mentioned in the episode that when they rebuilt Grand 38 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: Central Terminal, it didn't have stairs. Everything was ramps, which 39 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: is cool for a variety of reasons, Like I really 40 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: really love there's a particular piece of writing that's like 41 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: marketing writing about the new terminal and how you know, 42 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: even toddlers can handle transitioning from one place to the 43 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: other without it being a problem. But the best, at 44 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: least in terms of making me giggle, phrase of it 45 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: was that there were the ramps were available for women 46 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: trailing along and preposterous train like a ridiculous dress on. 47 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: Don't worry there are no steps. Yeah, although I one 48 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: would travel in along and preposterous train. I know travel 49 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: has changed a great deal. You used to dress up 50 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: for it, But that just made me laugh and laugh 51 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: and laugh. It's also really interesting because the guiding principle 52 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: of Vanderbilt was, even though he did philanthropy kind of 53 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: later in his life after his first wife died and 54 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: his second wife encouraged him to do so, he was 55 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: pretty open about I don't care about the people or 56 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: the community. I'm in it for the benefit of the business. 57 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: In everything he did, and even after he was out 58 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: of the picture, that was still in many ways like 59 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: the driver of things where people be like, no, no, 60 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: this is gonna be cool and create a community, but 61 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: it's really good for the business. Is you know one 62 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: of those things that anyone that's worked for any corporation 63 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure has had similar ethical discussion right about really 64 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: what is driving any of their innovation or plans? Um. 65 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: It just made me laugh. The one thing that's also 66 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: interesting in this we talked about how the neighborhood around 67 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: Grand Central just rocketed in terms of value, and as 68 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: an interesting juxtaposition, Penn Station did not have the same 69 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: instant effect on its neighborhood. Just an interesting little factoid. 70 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: Well that's connected to my Grand Central story. I said, 71 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: I was going to tell um, which is that my 72 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 1: preferred way of getting to New York from Massachusetts is 73 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: on a train because even though like if you fly 74 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: from Boston to New York, your your time spent in 75 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: the air is way shorter than the train trip, but 76 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: like door to door, it's effectively the same. In the 77 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: train is in my opinion, more comfortable, uh, just some 78 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: more fun trip. I like to watch things out the window, etcetera. Um, 79 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: But the Amtrak trains until very recently all came into 80 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: Penn Station and departed from Penn Station, and Penn Station 81 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: is just kind of dark and dingy, and it's just 82 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: not a fun or pretty place to hang out. And 83 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: I've had two trips to New York on the train 84 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: that were significantly delayed because of a problem. One time 85 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: it was a tree fell onto the track, and one 86 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: time it was a derailment that happened right outside of 87 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: New York. And on that derailment trip, we had to 88 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: go through a whole process of switching on to other 89 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: trains and then finishing our trip into New York on 90 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: a Metro North train that came into Grand Central instead 91 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: of Penn Station. And I remember getting off of the 92 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: train after this many many hours longer than normal trip. 93 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: I was very tired, and it was a work trip, 94 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: so I had somewhere I needed to be, and I 95 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: kind of made my way out from immediately after getting 96 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: off of the train, and then I walked into like 97 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: the Grand Central terminal area, and I was like, how 98 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: can I come into and out of this station all 99 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: the time every time? It's very pretty. It's so and 100 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: I sadly did not have time to like really appreciate 101 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: it because I needed, you know, I needed to get 102 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 1: to my hotel and get to our work dinner or 103 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: whatever it was that was on the schedule. Um, they 104 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: have moved the Amtrak lobby like a brand new thing 105 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: just opened literally a month ago, and I haven't seen 106 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: it in person yet because of course we are not 107 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: taking trips to New York right now. Um, but yeah, 108 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: I still remember just being like so exhausted and so tired, 109 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 1: and even like Amtrak had really tried so hard to 110 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: keep everybody informed of what was going on and to 111 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: keep us as comfortable as possible, but it was still 112 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 1: a frustrating trip. And I just remember suddenly being like, 113 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: what is this beauty? All recome to me? Ah? And 114 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: then you get to see that statue of Cornelius Vanderbilt 115 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: that everybody panmed because he say he looks wooden and weird. Yeah, 116 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: that's a lot of money on the statue. One of 117 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: our episodes on the show this week was about Zoe 118 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: and Theodora. Uh. Yeah, So I don't remember how Zoe 119 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: and Theodore made their way onto my list, but at 120 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: some point I ran across some you know, mentioned about 121 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: Zoe and Theodora as having been empresses together. Um. One 122 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: of the things that's a little challenging, as I alluded 123 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: to in the show, is that a lot of the 124 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: names are the same and over and over and over, 125 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: and I don't know if they're identically the same in Greek, 126 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: but the Anglicized versions of them are the same, and 127 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: so they were. As I was doing my research, the 128 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: thing that I often do is I go and I 129 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: bookmark a whole bunch of stuff. I grab a bunch 130 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: of stuff that then I'm going to go through later. 131 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: And as I was going through the things I had 132 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: already gathered together, I would be like, oh, this is 133 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: not the same Theodora. In fact, this is not the 134 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: same Joey. I got deeply confused trying to confirm sort 135 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:35,079 Speaker 1: of the progression of the imperial dynasty and who followed 136 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: who um, because there was a different Theo Fano and 137 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: close enough to this particular family that I got so lost. 138 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: I was like, wait, just wait, she wasn't married to him. 139 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: I was about to draw a family tree when I 140 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 1: realized I was just looking at a different person with 141 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: the same name. Yeah. I think that's always the pit 142 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: all in doing any particularly as you go back to 143 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 1: more ancient times, any royal family, because it is name 144 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: after name after name following in the lineage as part 145 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: of just the way they managed their their ruling. I'm 146 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: going to be honest, it is one of the reasons 147 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: why Royalty episodes are like not at the top of 148 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: my interest a lot of the time, because I'll just 149 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: be like, why, why is it another Michael other names. 150 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: I will say that after doing um a season of 151 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: Lady Poisoners on Criminalia, I'm like, oh, yeah, Zoe was 152 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:42,719 Speaker 1: poisoning people left and right. I'm convinced of it. It's 153 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: certain everyone poisoning everyone all the time. Yeah. Yeah, So 154 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: there is the entirety of an English language version of 155 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: the Chronographia UM at Fordham University and their medieval source 156 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: UM that you know, if you want to have a 157 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:08,119 Speaker 1: read of that to see for yourself how sometimes dramatic 158 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 1: and sometimes self centered that account is. There were times 159 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,679 Speaker 1: where I was just like, people describe you as a historian, 160 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: but like, this does not read as a historical count 161 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: at all. This reads almost like you're writing a treatment 162 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: for an opera, like a particularly dramatic opera. Is there 163 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: any other kind We're gonna write a boring opera about 164 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: Zoe and Theodora. I don't think that would work out. 165 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: There was just too much, too much potential murdering and 166 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:44,239 Speaker 1: banishing people and possibly tonsuring their hair and the blindings 167 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: a lot of blindings and castrations. Yes, that's not that's 168 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: not cool. No, that's not cool. Everybody cool. Um it 169 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: It is the as we said, the veracity of these 170 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: account we know you have to kind of question a little, 171 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: but it does also put in kind of sharp focus 172 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: just the cruelty of the manner in which power has 173 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: always been seized and maintained. Yeah. Yeah, the the series 174 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: with Zoe's husband's coming to the throne and then immediately 175 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: banishing her, I was like, that's pattern now, yeah, constantly banishing. Um. 176 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: One of the things that I like to talk about 177 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: in episodes in general is like what somebody's impact or 178 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: legacy was, And that was really hard with Zey and Theodora, 179 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: like because they were at the very end of an 180 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: imperial dynasty and then afterwards there was this period of 181 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: just chaos, uh, with so many so much turnover and 182 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: who was supposed to be ruling in the immediate years 183 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: and decades afterward. That I was like, wow, I feel 184 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: like this episode just has a big in the middle 185 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: at an end and that just kind of stops stories over. Uh. Yeah, 186 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: I mean that's valid, right, we did everything that they 187 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 1: may have worked towards kind of got thrown out the 188 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: window by constant challenges after the fact. So again, poisons. 189 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: I believe in my soul perfumes. Bring me herbs. That'll 190 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: be cool there for perfumes. Come on, Yeah, we all 191 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:37,599 Speaker 1: know better, but it was the poison lab. They're in 192 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: the Embassis quarters. If you would like to write to us, 193 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: send us it out. Were History podcast at I heart 194 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: radio dot com. And this is Friday. I hope whatever 195 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: is happening your weekend, it's going pretty well for you. Uh. 196 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 1: If you're off, have a great time off you're working. 197 00:12:52,520 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: I hope everyone is nice to you. Stuff you missed 198 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: in History Class is a production of I heart Radio. 199 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the iHeart 200 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 201 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: favorite shows.