1 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Annie and welcome to Stuff. Mom never told 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: you a production of I Heart Radios How stuff works. 3 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: This episode is going to be a little different, listeners 4 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: different to the next two episodes are gonna be very different. 5 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: That is true, Um, and that is because Samantha and 6 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: I um are going to let you sit in on 7 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: our therapy sessions. Yeah, it's a We're going to be 8 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,319 Speaker 1: a lot closer after I told you I'm gonna I'm 9 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: here to make friends, so you're gonna know all my 10 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: dart apparently, and I'm gonna know all your dart too. True. 11 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: It's true turn around his fair play. We're hoping it 12 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: will help destigmatize therapy a little, maybe make it a 13 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: little us intimidating for people who have thought about doing 14 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: it and for whatever reason, have it because being vulnerable 15 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: is scary, very scary. Yeah. When we were first discussing 16 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: this mini series on trauma, Samantha and I wanted to 17 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: dedicate an entire episode to therapy because it can be 18 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: so helpful in learning ways to cope with trauma. And instead, yes, 19 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 1: you're getting to one for me, one for Samantha, Yes, UM, 20 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: and mine is not super intense. I'll say, UM, and 21 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: you'll get some some tools for coping. Uh. Disclaimer right 22 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: at the top. We know that therapy is not accessible 23 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: for everyone unfortunately, and you know I've been there where 24 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: I wasn't wasn't able to do therapy myself. UM. Again, 25 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: you all know I'm a social work or that's been 26 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: kind of like my theme UM and with that, oftentimes 27 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: I could not afford it. But we did discuss with 28 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: I think we end the episode with the Kenyan Michelle 29 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: about the fact that a lot of work places there 30 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: is a program oftentimes that at least introduced you in 31 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: tow therapy, whether it's a few sessions like two or 32 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,559 Speaker 1: three sessions that you can have, and it also counts 33 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: us your work schedule. I know from my job it 34 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: offers that because it is that intense UM and it's 35 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: an employee program. But sometimes, like mine, I remember my 36 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: therapist that I was trying to get to UM ended 37 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: up having full schedule. So things happen. But yeah, I 38 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: understand that it is really sometimes can be difficult. But 39 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: there are a lot of places out there, and I'm 40 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 1: hoping that we can get some more resources that offer 41 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: sliding scale fees, which is sometimes not even good enough. 42 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: And I actually try to research if there were any 43 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 1: program so that will actually fund UM therapy, because I 44 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: think that should be a thing, and I couldn't find one. 45 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: So if someone knows about that, please tell me, because 46 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: I would love to see that as a program. Yeah. UM, 47 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,959 Speaker 1: certainly if you UM have a job or in any 48 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: university or in college or something, and maybe there might 49 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: be something available that you just haven't heard about. That 50 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: was the case for me when I was in college. 51 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: And before we get into this trigger warning for this episode, 52 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: sexual abuse, assault, eating disorders, substance abuse, suicidal ideation, and 53 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: mental illness. And if we look at some numbers here 54 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: in the United States, over forty four million adults have 55 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: a mental health condition. Though the number of people seeking 56 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: help and being covered by insurance has been increasing over 57 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: the years, over nine million people still report that their 58 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: needs go unmet, and there's a shortage of mental health 59 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 1: workers to meet that demand in some areas for patients 60 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: to one mental health worker. In the UK, in seventeen, 61 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: over one point four million people were referred to mental 62 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: health therapy and UM. There has been some interesting recent 63 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: research and conversation around the intersection of men masculinity and 64 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: mental health with negative outcomes like mass shootings and sexual 65 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: assaults and violence. The American Psychological Association are the a 66 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: p A has specific guidelines for treating women and girls, 67 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: gender nonconforming and l g B, t q I A 68 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: plus ethnic groups older folks, but not men and boys. 69 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: And this is concerning also in terms of the rate 70 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: of male suicide, which is three times that of the 71 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: rate of women. From the National Institute of Mental Health. 72 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: Men are more likely than women to use almost all 73 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: types of illicit drugs, and illicit drug use is more 74 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: likely to result in emergency department visits or overdose deaths 75 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: for men than women. There's more stigma, I would say, 76 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: around men seeking treatment for mental health um and therefore 77 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: they seek help less frequently. It's kind of like the 78 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: whole men up idea. If you're a true man, you 79 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: can handle this, you can internalize this, just deal with it. Yes, yeah, yeah, 80 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: we just we just did an example of the exacting. 81 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: So that's manliness, right, Yeah, that's all it is. There's 82 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: even a term for guys having difficulty expressing their emotion 83 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: sens normative male alexithymia. That's a big word. Yeah, yeah, 84 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: and yeah, that is the stereotype that don't and in 85 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: the stereotype of therapy is you're sitting on a couch 86 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: and you're crying, and so that is a direct way 87 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 1: crying is not bad. And as you will hear in 88 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: my session, yes, no, it happens. It does happen, and 89 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: sometimes it happens when you least expected. I've got to say, um, recently, 90 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: I was at lunch with some mostly male friends and 91 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: I mentioned that I was doing therapy, and everyone either 92 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: expressed interest in finding a therapist or they were already 93 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: in therapy as well. So which is right? Because I 94 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: think the more we talk about it and more we 95 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: dey stigmatize and make it an um common thing, the 96 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: better it is for us as individuals who can actually 97 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: get help and then able to help others. It's fantastic. 98 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: I love it. Keep going and there are a lot, 99 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: a lot, a lot of different types of therapy, group therapy, 100 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: family therapy, marriage counseling. Evidence backs up the effectiveness of 101 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: cognitive behavioral therapy or CBT, along with dialectical behavior therapy 102 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: and family based treatment, but despite that those are not 103 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: frequently used. One survey found only six of therapist used 104 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: CBT only part of the time or in combination with 105 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: something else to treat things like depression and anxiety and 106 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: just a personal experience. Many of the UH different programs 107 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: that I use to help our children will use CBT UM, 108 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: but oftentimes cannot use CBT on people who are lower 109 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 1: i Q and or like autism because obviously CBT is 110 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: very much thinking and processing and UM understanding your individual needs, 111 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: so oftentimes makes feel that this is not as effective 112 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: for those types of UM patients or individuals. Just to 113 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: put that out there, and despite being a huge proponent 114 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: of therapy UM and seeking help when you need it, 115 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: this is my first serious attempt at therapy. UH. Samantha 116 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: pushed me very strong to do it. I would say, 117 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: we just talked about all the things that we want 118 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: to talk about. You became a mom with me, and 119 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: I was like, yes, we're gonna do therapy together. Yes, 120 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: but we're not doing it together in sessions. But at 121 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: the same time, oh man, that would be interesting, would 122 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: be super It could be like a couple of stay yeah, 123 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: except we're not like fighting with each other. We're just 124 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: like the man we're fighting the Man's were together, right, UM, 125 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: I have gone to therapy before. I got turned in 126 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: twice when I was in college for depressive or worrying behavior, 127 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: which entailed going to a therapist both times, and the 128 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: first time, the dude essentially told me like, this is 129 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: just gonna stress you out more. I don't think you 130 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: should go. And I was like cool. And the second time, UM, 131 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: she the therapist was like, I am not qualified to 132 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: help you. You should see somebody else. And the third 133 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: time I went to my own accord at my mom's 134 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: very strong request, but of my own record, and I 135 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: was trying to explain some of my trauma to her 136 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: and I flipped out, flipped out, screaming and crying, and 137 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: it scared me and I never went back. Um, but 138 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: I knew that I could really benefit from therapy. And UM, 139 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: that brings me to one of the things I think 140 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: that scares people away from therapy apart from stigma, and 141 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,240 Speaker 1: that's finding the right therapist. And that is so important. 142 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: And UM, just to throw that out there, you and 143 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: I when we were discussing the two types of therapists 144 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: for us, when I was looking, I was making sure 145 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: a that it was a trauma focused therapist who knew PTSD, UM, 146 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 1: who understood triggering, who understood sexual trauma, who understood abuse trauma, 147 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: because I think it's very very important. I did look 148 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: at their education level. I did look at the level 149 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: of years that they practiced. And for me, actually I 150 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: wanted a person who was a person of color because 151 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: I feel like, and the old hear a little bit 152 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: on my end, it's like, I need someone that identifies 153 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: UM with what I've experienced, because I don't. I'm struggling 154 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: with my own identity as a person of color. So 155 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: it just happened that this woman Dr Coleman, who you 156 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: I'm not your to talk about. I met all of 157 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 1: those and it was been for me. I don't know 158 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 1: about you, it's been fantastic, UM. But yeah, it's very 159 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: very important that you understand when you're seeking a therapist, 160 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: you have the lead, you know what you need or 161 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: you know what you think you need. You need to 162 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: make sure you have someone who can meet those needs. Yeah, 163 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 1: and there are bad ones out there. There are ones 164 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: that aren't for you. There are ones that aren't trained 165 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: to handle with what you're dealing with. UM. Some areas, 166 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: UH don't have any options. I'm from a small town. 167 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: I'm very familiar with that. Um. And one thing for me, 168 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: on top of all the stuff that you just said, Samantha, 169 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: I if it involves travel, I'm very unlikely to stick 170 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: with it. So UM, Dr Coleman, here's the therapist that 171 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: we found. She does it online right, very convenient for me. 172 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: I was gonna say she is licensed in Georgia, which 173 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: that's a reminder. Each state has different qualifications and licensure. Um, 174 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: she's licensed here. Don't think she's licensed in Vermont, Vermont 175 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: also Chicago. I don't know, I think anyway. But UM, 176 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: it's been nice for me to actually because I can 177 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: sit at home and have my dog in my lap 178 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,719 Speaker 1: like and that's one of the most amazing moments. Do 179 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: have a pillow? You haven't seen me in my pillow pet? 180 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: I don't think I have. His name is Rudy or Ruby? Depending? 181 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: Is it just the pillow? Is it in the shape 182 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: of a pet? It's a it's a bee. Oh my goodness. 183 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: That's so many things I'm learning about. Yes, yes, please. 184 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: Another thing to consider when you're getting therapy is your goals, 185 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: and it's good to go over those really early with 186 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: your potential therapist. UM, because you don't want to go 187 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: into multiple sessions if you're not going to get what 188 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: you want out of it. UM. Talking things out as great, 189 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: but having stress management and coping tools is I would say, 190 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: the ideal. UM. And in your first session, this is 191 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: what should happen. This is probably what is going to happen. 192 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: It's a conversation around what it is you're dealing with, 193 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: what you hope to accomplish, and whether or not the 194 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: therapist you're speaking with is a good fit for helping 195 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: you reach those goals. And I'm gonna throw that out 196 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: this out there. There is timing as well. As you 197 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: talked about that you and that one time, and it 198 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: did not It was not time. The last time I 199 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: went to therapy was three years ago, and I was 200 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: so caught up in all of the trauma that was 201 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: happening in my work that it was a daily process 202 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: that it was shut me down. UM. And I knew 203 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: after a year and a half. By the way, my 204 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: therapist was awesome, she was great. It just wasn't right 205 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: timing or it wasn't going where I needed to and 206 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: I needed a break. So even though like it's great, 207 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: you should definitely see therapist. Therapists are great. There is 208 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: a thing in your own um body, I think, and 209 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: in your own mental mentalities is this time, am I 210 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: ready to deal with these things? Because the first thing 211 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: they should tell you, the first thing we're gonna tell you, 212 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: is they am hard. Like I'm gonna curse. It's faking 213 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: hard like there's nothing else to say. It's it hurts, 214 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 1: it's painful, It hurts, it resonates, and you start really 215 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: understanding why you are the way you are. And that 216 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: shock in itself, it can it can feel like it 217 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: shatters you. The good news is you go past it, 218 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: and the good news is someone is there with you, 219 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: which is therapy, which is fantastic. But again you have 220 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: to be not necessarily ready, but aware, yeah, and able 221 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: to take on that extra right. So we just want 222 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: to throw that out there, just because we're talking about 223 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: this and just because we want you to be hear 224 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: it from us. Not necessarily for any but for me. 225 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: This has been years and years and years of therapy. 226 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: This has been years and years and years of being 227 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: in my field. And again, like I said, in the 228 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: next episode, you'll hear more from me, but it's timing. 229 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: There is timing to it too, UM. And one thing 230 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: I found from the New York Times. UH. They they 231 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: had an article about UM finding a good therapist for you, 232 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: and some questions they listed that you should look at 233 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: is what you specialize in, what kind of training did 234 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: you do with whom? And what manuals do you use? 235 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: And there is manuals. There are things out there, and 236 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 1: I'm sure this is the world of the internet, so 237 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: I'm sure you can look it up too. But there 238 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: are specific methods, specific ideas, and specific books. So oftentimes 239 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: if people can't do therapy, there are some self help 240 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: books and the workbooks that you can use as well. 241 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: And one thing before we we finally get into this 242 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: this session UM with me, UM, Samantha and I signed 243 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: a release saying we agreed to release the confidentiality of 244 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: these sessions. We did all the legal things. We protected 245 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: our confidentiality while recording and editing. We set boundaries and 246 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: discussed what we would and wouldn't talk about, UM that 247 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: would be healthy for us when when you're thinking in 248 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: the context of other people here right, what we wanting 249 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: people to hear exactly, And we sent the file for 250 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: review before we published again. Legal UM to our to 251 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: our therapist, and unless you are a podcast host during 252 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,560 Speaker 1: an episode on therapy, your sessions are completely legally confidential 253 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: unless you wait fair right and the only reason anything 254 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: would ever be reported if you are at risk to 255 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: yourself or someone else or if there's some type of abuse. 256 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: So it is very confidential. Even at the point that 257 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: I think, I'm sure you did too, Dr Coleman, and 258 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: I said, and she was like, are you sure? And 259 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: we talked about it in like three different sessions about 260 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: what this looks like, how do we make sure we 261 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: are protected, You are protected, they and Dr Coleman is 262 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: protected because this is a very serious thing, hippa. Yeah, 263 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: we know it's a big part of law in them 264 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: your um animity and your rights essentially your private rights, 265 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: and it still does exist. So we agree fully and 266 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: we'll say that on there to allow this to happen, 267 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: because we think it's important that you hear what it 268 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: can be and not necessarily what it is for you. 269 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: But it's not as intense sometimes as you think. Yes, 270 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: so just keep that in mind that we didn't do 271 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: this lightly and this is and this is a six 272 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: month long discussion. I'm actually going here and even doing 273 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: it before, we were still like, oh my god, yeah, 274 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: this is happening. Yeah, and we did several sessions like 275 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: before we even got so that I think, Um, and 276 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: you're not talking about this. I thought is very important 277 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: that we set up the beginning because it takes a 278 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: little while to build trust in relationships with people, and 279 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: your relationship with therapist is important and it is a relationship. 280 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: So all of that aside. We're going to take a 281 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: quick break, but when we get back, we're gonna hop 282 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: right into the session with clinical psychologist Dr Marissa Coleman. 283 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: M HM, Hello, I hey, oh, how are how are 284 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: you feeling? I'm good, I'm good. How about you? I'm 285 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: pretty good. Yeah. I'm aware also of you being in 286 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: a a new space during our time together and how 287 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: it's a space that's associated with work and with other 288 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: topics and things, and curious how that's feeling for you now. 289 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: It is change. I feel I almost feel like I'm 290 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: having an out of body experience. Um. It's it's not 291 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: unlike because the show that that we're doing this for 292 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: I often um combine things that are very personal with work. UM, 293 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: so it's not a feeling that I'm necessarily unused to. 294 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: But it is something that I've experienced before when you're 295 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: like being very personal and very like yourself, but it 296 00:16:55,680 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: is it is your job. UM. It's an interesting inner section. Yeah, 297 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: that's what I was thinking of, just you know, overlap 298 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: of different parts of yourself but also different worlds. UM. 299 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: And so we'll just keep that in our minds and 300 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:19,959 Speaker 1: in the space as we meet today per usual, Like 301 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: I usually ask if there's anything that's been on your 302 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: heart or your mind that you want to prioritize in 303 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: our time together, UM, feel free to let me know. UM. 304 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 1: I don't think so. I one thing I have been 305 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: experiencing and UM, I believe we touched on this a 306 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: little bit. Uh the last time we talked is UM. 307 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: I just feel like now that I've started sharing this 308 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: with you with somebody that sometimes it just like comes 309 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: out like I'll just be talking to someone and I'll 310 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: be sharing something that I'm like, God, why am I 311 00:17:55,800 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: talking about this? UM? And it's never anything two. It's 312 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: nothing that I feel bad sharing. It's nothing very uncomfortable. UM. 313 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: But it's just bizarre because I catch myself like all 314 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: of a sudden saying something and thinking why in the 315 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: world's gonna need to share that with some UM. And 316 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's UM, just because it's that 317 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: I've started talking about it for the first time, I 318 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,880 Speaker 1: don't know. Mm hmm. Yeah, that actually makes a lot 319 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 1: of sense to me, just that your defenses are likely 320 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: slowly becoming deactivated in ways that UM, they had been 321 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: very activated in the past, and so those filters of UM, 322 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: like guardedness of needing to protect certain parts of yourself, 323 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: like they may be more relaxed UM. And just like 324 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 1: with anything, the more that you do something, the more 325 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 1: familiar it starts to feel. Mm hmm. I'm areous if 326 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: there's a specific example or a time recently where you 327 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: had that that you could share with me. Yeah. So 328 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: on Sunday, I was hanging out with some friends watching 329 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: Game of Thrones and I was saying, how a really 330 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: bad habit of UM drinking too much on Sundays and 331 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: it's because I always call my mom on Sundays UM, 332 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 1: and uh. People were like, well, why do you dread that, 333 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 1: And just without thinking about I was like, well, my 334 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: dad has terminal cancer and my mom is miserable, and 335 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: like that's been going on for years. I've kind of 336 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: accepted it, but I don't really talk about it that much, 337 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: And to just have offered it that information without even 338 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: thinking about it, it really surprised me. Um. And it 339 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: could have been that I had been drinking bline. Um. Yeah. 340 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: I afterwards, I was kind of like, oh, I cannot 341 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: take that back, can I? No, No, you cannot. But 342 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: I'm curious about the person that you shared that information with. 343 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: Are they somebody that's close to you in your life? 344 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 1: Do you feel, um, do you feel like a specific 345 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, closeness or connectedness with that person. I do. 346 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: It's um, he's kind of a newer person in my life. 347 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: And that's another thing that I do love my job 348 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: so much, and I'm fortunate that I work with a 349 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: lot of people who am I like hanging out with 350 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 1: outside of work, and so it's kind of an odd 351 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: thing where we know each other even though he's he's 352 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,439 Speaker 1: pretty new, just because we have to work together and 353 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: then we hang out outside of work. Um. And he's 354 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 1: also somebody who's just really like easy going. So he 355 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: didn't react like he wasn't like, oh my god, I'm 356 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: so sorry. You're just kind of like, oh, yeah, you know, 357 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: very even keel and I think for me personally, it's 358 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: easier to share stuff with people do I think, like, 359 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I know they're what their reaction will be. UM. 360 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, we're fairly we're good friends. Sure. M Hm. 361 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: How did you feel after you share that information about 362 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: your dad and your mom? Embarrassed? Mostly um, just because 363 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: I didn't mean to um. It has just kind of 364 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: been slipping out a lot. Um. But he was Yeah, 365 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 1: he didn't, he did nothing he did made me feel 366 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: embarrassed about it. UM, But I was just kind of 367 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: like I felt like I had lost control of what 368 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: I would like to to share. UM. And we're still 369 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm hoping that I'm not misinterpreting that we're 370 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: pretty close random you know, like if if we've only known, 371 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: it's been less than a year, so UM. There are 372 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: people I've known years and years I've never told that too. 373 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: M Hm. You just said something that was interesting to me, 374 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: and I feel like connects back to some of the 375 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: themes of what we've been talking about in past sessions 376 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: around the sense of control and the security that comes 377 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: from feeling like you're in control of yourself and therefore 378 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: what you share with others than also keeping your relationship 379 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: and control um with the other person. UM. Maybe we 380 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 1: should talk a little bit more about other times in 381 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: your life that you have felt out of control. UM. Yeah, 382 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: there's there's a time in my life in particular which 383 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: I'm not even sure why I felt so out of control, 384 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: because looking at it from the outside, I think people 385 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: would have been like, wow, you're really disciplined. Um. But 386 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 1: there was a time in my life where, um, I 387 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: was just so overly scheduled. I always had something to 388 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: do and um, and then I would get home really late, 389 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,639 Speaker 1: and then I would somehow find something else to do, 390 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: and I would I wouldn't sleep, and it just felt 391 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: like I was trapped in this cycle of um of 392 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: that I had created, like this cage I had created, 393 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: and it was stuff of my own, Like I was 394 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: deciding to do everything, do all of this stuff. But 395 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: at the same time it felt like I almost wasn't 396 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: like it was compulsive almost, or like I just had 397 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: to keep finding something because I didn't want to not 398 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 1: be busy. UM. And I remember just feeling so all 399 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: the time, like panicked and like I was barely holding 400 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: on to this schedule that I had created for myself. 401 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: What would happen if you are not busy? That's the thing. 402 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: I never let it, never let it happened. I would 403 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: sometimes I would even say, um to myself, you're going 404 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: home after work and you were going to relax and 405 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: take care of yourself whatever it is. And I would 406 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: go home and like ten minutes later, I would find 407 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: something like Nope, I'm going out. Um. And it was 408 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 1: frustrating because it did feel, even though these are purportedly 409 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: decisions I am making, it did feel like there was 410 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 1: some snap thing like nope. Making that decision for me 411 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: I was I was saying, you need to go home, 412 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: and then something else was thing, No, you did not 413 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: even do that. Yeah, that is interesting. And I'm also 414 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: wondering if part of what was at play and that 415 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: dynamic within yourself was also not wanting to be alone 416 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: mm hmm, about being with other people, but also having 417 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: control over who you chose who you were with. Yeah. Yeah, 418 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: And I think there was a an aspect of distraction 419 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 1: of if you're with other people and you don't have 420 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: to think about anything else than the conversation you're having 421 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: with those those people. And I think I was just 422 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: really looking for distraction, something to to keep me busy. 423 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: When you were with other people and you were talking 424 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: and hanging out, was the topic and conversation mostly on 425 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:10,719 Speaker 1: the other person. Yeah, generally, UM, I do I like. 426 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: For a long time, I've I've liked to have been 427 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: known as the person who listens well, which is why 428 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,959 Speaker 1: this has been really interesting for me. It's kind of 429 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: been my thing. I like to be the person who's 430 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 1: on the listening end. Um. A lot of the people 431 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: I hang out with are good though, and including me 432 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: in conversation, like recognizing that and being like come on, 433 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:46,199 Speaker 1: kind of drawing you out. Yeah. There. There's there's something 434 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 1: perhaps about being the listener that allows you to hide 435 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: parts of yourself that you don't want to share. Yeah. 436 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: Does that? I mean you think that that fits with 437 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: your understanding of your of yourself. It feels safer for sure. UM. 438 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,719 Speaker 1: And it also I think it ties back into some 439 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: of the stuff we've talked about about having UM low 440 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: self esteem mhm and feeling like I don't really have 441 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: anything to contribute UM to the conversation, or like the 442 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: other person is way more interesting than I could ever be. UM. 443 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: Things like that, do you still feel that way. I do. 444 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: I do, but it's one of another one of those 445 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 1: things where I rationally know that that's not true, but 446 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: I still feel that it's true, m Um, because I've 447 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: done some really inesting stuff and I know that I have. Yeah. 448 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: But then then if I talk about that, then I 449 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: feel like I'm bragging or something and I can't win. 450 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: M Yeah, a lot of a lot of self talk 451 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:28,360 Speaker 1: that is likely reinforced by UM again, staying in control 452 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: and not sharing too much. I'm curious when you said 453 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: that you rationally know that people are interested in what 454 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: you have to say, and you've done some interesting things, 455 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: but it doesn't always feel that way. I'm wondering if, 456 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: like when you talk about that feeling, is there a 457 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: certain place even within your body where you get that feeling. 458 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: I feel that way about so many things. UM. I 459 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: just it's almost like I don't I don't trust myself 460 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: at all. Um. I Actually I've never really thought about 461 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: it this way, but UM. One of the reasons I 462 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: um overschedule everything is because I don't trust that I 463 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: will get things done. If I don't, I just have 464 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: like a really deep seated thought that I'm not going 465 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: to do what I said I'm going to do, or 466 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: I just I don't trust the lack of trusting in 467 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: myself and a lot of people. Um. Yeah, yeah, there's 468 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,719 Speaker 1: a lot of things where I'm like, rationally, I know 469 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: this must be true, but I don't feel that it's true. 470 00:29:51,680 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 1: Mm hm ums. As far as you can remember, when 471 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: did that lack of trust in yourself begin? I think, 472 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: I mean going back as far as um the first 473 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: the first instance of abuse that we've talked about, I think, Um, 474 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: I remember after that hearing people say, like I remember 475 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: a particular instance where my grandmother, it's like four or five, 476 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: she told me that like, um, she really thought it 477 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: was so beautiful and she loved my hair, and I 478 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: completely panicked and I um had this like it's all 479 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: that she had made for me. I was holding it 480 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: and I was like twisting it so much all of 481 00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: the beings spilled out on the floor. Um. Yeah. I 482 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: just even then, it was like, I don't trust what 483 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: people people are saying, and I didn't trust myself to 484 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: believe it because I know she's my grandmother, like and 485 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: I really we had a good relationship and I loved her. Um, 486 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: but yeah, I didn't I couldn't trust that m hm, 487 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: you couldn't trust that what she was saying was true, 488 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: or you couldn't trust that by her saying that or 489 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: about you being pretty would Um how do I how 490 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,320 Speaker 1: do I phrase this? Because I think they're I want 491 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: to distinguish between two things that I'm hearing. One not 492 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: trusting something that somebody is telling you your grandmother. But 493 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: then also I wonder if there's an element of believing 494 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: that by you being pretty means that something bad will 495 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: happen or that you'll get hurt, like that being pretty 496 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: isn't what keeps you safe. Yeah, I think it's I 497 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: think it's both. I Um. I've said before I definitely 498 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: have like a a knee jerk panic reaction to compliments, 499 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: especially about anything to do with beauty or my body. UM. 500 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: But I do have this. It's like an undercurrent of 501 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: just not trusting that that could be true, Like all right, 502 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,239 Speaker 1: when I look in the mirrors like a horrendous and 503 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: I know that that that can be true, Um, but 504 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: I can't trust that. At the same time, it's confusing, Yeah, 505 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: which abuses confusing, right, And a lot of what we're 506 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: talking about, UM is connected to the grooming that you 507 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: experienced at such a young age, and the idea of 508 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: being complimented about your looks as being a part of 509 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: the grooming process. So it makes a lot of sense 510 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: why one that could potentially be well, why it is 511 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: a trigger for you, um, but also why um kind 512 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: of the first seeds of distrust are really interwoven with 513 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 1: that compliment. Yeah, m hm, you just said something about how, um, 514 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: I know that it's true. Meaning reminds me if I'm 515 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: getting this wrong. Um, but you were you were saying 516 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: something and then you stopped yourself and you said, well, 517 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: I know, I know that that's true, whether you're talking 518 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: about if somebody compliments you or that, oh you were 519 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: saying that you look at in the mirror, you look 520 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: at yourself and you don't always like what you see. Yeah, 521 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: but that you recognize like there are like it has 522 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: to be true, like if people compliment you know, And 523 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,280 Speaker 1: I'm curious about what what part of you knows that 524 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: that when people compliment you, there are redeemable and there 525 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 1: are great and positive things about yourself, Like how do 526 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: you know that? I think there's a part of me 527 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: that has to believe, um that when people that I 528 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: do have been with me for for years and years 529 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: and years, and are there is no ulterior motive of 530 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: honestly sex um are being related to me UM like 531 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: your mother is not gonna, hopefully mid most cases isn't 532 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,959 Speaker 1: going to tell you that you're ugly. But like UM, 533 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: friends and people that I just believe that they wouldn't. 534 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:03,040 Speaker 1: They might be kind and be nice with their words, 535 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: but I think that I have to believe that since 536 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:16,400 Speaker 1: really for friends, that they're being truthful. Mhm um. And 537 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 1: I am because I do this this show, and I've 538 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: done a lot of research around you know, self esteem 539 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: and body image, and I know the facts around it, 540 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: and I'm a very like rational, fact based person, which 541 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,280 Speaker 1: is why I think I have this this cognitive dissonance 542 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: between UM. What I know must be true, but what 543 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: I feel they don't a lot of times they just 544 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 1: don't match up. Yeah. Yeah, I also want I want 545 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: to point out how that disconnect between mind and body 546 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:03,800 Speaker 1: is a very common symptom or survivors of abuse and trauma. 547 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:10,720 Speaker 1: Is this idea of particularly when it's involving um sexual 548 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,400 Speaker 1: body parts, because the feeling itself can be confusing and 549 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: that sometimes it is pleasurable. But then in your mind 550 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: or even in your heart, you're like, but this isn't right, 551 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: and I don't feel good, and this is you know, 552 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,799 Speaker 1: all of the insert whatever adjective you want, you know, um, 553 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: And so that in itself is confusing. Yeah, and so 554 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: it's easy for that too, that h that interaction to 555 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: spill over to other areas of life too. So I 556 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 1: know for us, one of our tasks is how to 557 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:51,839 Speaker 1: integrate that more for you, Yeah, so that one you 558 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:58,439 Speaker 1: can safely rely on your intuition and instincts and gut 559 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,720 Speaker 1: reactions of if somebody does say something that's um disingenuous, 560 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 1: that you can trust your ability to sense that and 561 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,720 Speaker 1: know that. And then vice versa, when somebody is sincere 562 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,920 Speaker 1: and authentic with you, that you can trust that too. 563 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 1: M Um. What I heard you saying was that time 564 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 1: and consistency with people in your life like that helps 565 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: build that sense of trust. M We have a little 566 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: bit more for you listeners, but we're going to pause 567 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: for one more quick break for word from our sponsor. 568 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: M HM. Has there ever been a time when, um, 569 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 1: when you have gone with a gut instinct, whether it 570 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: was early on in a relationship and it ended up 571 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: being correct, Like you and you are either surprised by 572 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: that or like, do you have any experience of that? 573 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:11,959 Speaker 1: Um yeah, uh no, not personally, but I can see 574 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: it in other people's relationships, which is the last thing 575 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,280 Speaker 1: anyone wants. But I have a friend in particular where 576 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,840 Speaker 1: several times I've been like, this person is no good 577 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: for you, and I usually don't unless they ask, like 578 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: or I'm very concerned, I'm not going to to voice that. 579 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 1: Um So, I feel like sometimes I can see in 580 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: other people. I think I've often felt it in my 581 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: own relationships, but I usually convinced myself that I'm being um, yes, 582 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: paranoid or it's It's difficult for me because I've never 583 00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:00,120 Speaker 1: really had a I don't remember to my to a a 584 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 1: time before I had like traumatic stuff. So I think 585 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: a lot of times I'm thinking, maybe this is normal 586 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: and I'm just being like overly sensitive to it. Um So, 587 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: I'll definitely stay in relationships long past when I think 588 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 1: this is not going to work, okay. So you start 589 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:31,240 Speaker 1: to second guess yourself and doubt your ability to discern 590 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: and know what's right for you. And so what is 591 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: it that keeps you there. You had mentioned something about 592 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 1: how you may like minimize your feelings or brush it off. 593 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I'm just being too sensitive. But are 594 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: there other things that keep you in a situation that 595 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 1: you don't feel like it's great for you? I don't 596 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: I want to hurt the other person's feelings A lot 597 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: of time, UM, I have. I am very bad about 598 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: um letting people. I don't want to let anybody down. 599 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to make anyone unhappy unhappy, and I 600 00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 1: I think there is a sense of like, well, this 601 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:32,480 Speaker 1: person is well willing to be with you, um and 602 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: they still are. So maybe you should see if you 603 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,240 Speaker 1: can make it work, because who knows if there's another 604 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: person like that out there saying that out loud? How 605 00:40:50,960 --> 00:41:00,160 Speaker 1: does that feel? It's sad? I mean I've never this 606 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: isn't a surprise to me at all. I often think that, 607 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: but yeah I think it out loud? Is that it 608 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:12,919 Speaker 1: makes me sad? Yeah, because I can I can see 609 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: the emotion when you talk about it. Looks like a 610 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:22,280 Speaker 1: lot of sadness. Yeah. Is this something that you would 611 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:26,359 Speaker 1: like to see shift in your life and your own 612 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: self perception? Yeah? I just feel like there's so many 613 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,399 Speaker 1: threads for me to like, so many things I need 614 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: to tackle before I can even like ascertain what I want. 615 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: I don't even know what I want. Yeah, and I 616 00:41:55,120 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 1: would like to be able to say confidently, I this 617 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,759 Speaker 1: relationship isn't good for me our no relationship is good 618 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,840 Speaker 1: for me or without always wondering is it because I 619 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:26,520 Speaker 1: went through these traumatic things? M hm hm Yeah, that's 620 00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: I mean, that's just compelling to me to hear um, 621 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:38,279 Speaker 1: because it's it's another way that the traumatic experiences you've 622 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:43,440 Speaker 1: had continue to have a hold on not just you 623 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,840 Speaker 1: and how you view yourself, but also like your life, 624 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:57,759 Speaker 1: you know, and the and the near future you know essentially. Um. Yeah, 625 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 1: which is why I think it's just so brave of 626 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: you two work on this stuff and to talk about this, 627 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,400 Speaker 1: because for so long it's kind of been this like 628 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 1: dark passenger for lack of better word, with you, you 629 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like, um, something that you carry 630 00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: that you don't share, but like that impacts you and 631 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: every aspect of your life. Yeah, and it also keeps 632 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,319 Speaker 1: you from your goal of like authentic connection and to 633 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: be seen and known by another person. Yeah. Yeah, there 634 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 1: are so many things that I have done for so 635 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: long that I had not realized that I was doing 636 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:54,040 Speaker 1: just to to cope and to avoid into not have 637 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:58,759 Speaker 1: to deal with it, right. And we've talked about how 638 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: that's adaptive, right until you're in situations that are safe 639 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 1: and that don't need um, that hyper vigilance you know, 640 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 1: to keep you safe, and then it becomes unhelpful and 641 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 1: it can keep you from your goals for yourself. Mm hmm. 642 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:27,239 Speaker 1: Do you think that you are at that place where, um, 643 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:37,680 Speaker 1: you you are safe? I think yes, Um. Again, it's 644 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: one of those things where, ah, I think I am safe, 645 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,840 Speaker 1: and I feel pretty safe most of the time, but 646 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:53,359 Speaker 1: then I have days where I really don't um. And 647 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 1: I mean the compliment thing is a great example, like 648 00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: in any relationship that in theory you're going to like date, uh, 649 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: someone gives you a compliment the amount of like I've 650 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:09,120 Speaker 1: got to get out of here right now that I feel, um, 651 00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:15,319 Speaker 1: it makes me so uncomfortable. Yeah, uh, and it's it's 652 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,480 Speaker 1: like panic. I remember somebody was like getting ready to 653 00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,920 Speaker 1: compliment me and it was like stop stop up ups up. Um. 654 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 1: So I it's that, yeah, another thing where I'm pretty 655 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,720 Speaker 1: sure that I am safe, but I don't always feel safe. Yeah, 656 00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:35,319 Speaker 1: really great distinction because again that gets that like the 657 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: mind and the body and the disconnect, right. I may 658 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,960 Speaker 1: not feel safe in your body because you're being triggered 659 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:46,600 Speaker 1: mm hmm, but your mind, in the reality of um 660 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 1: the situation, you may you likely are safe, you know, 661 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:55,000 Speaker 1: but there's always that that risk, especially when you're in 662 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,120 Speaker 1: a relationship with another person and you're getting to know 663 00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,960 Speaker 1: that person. So what if oh h And that's the 664 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,000 Speaker 1: thing about triggers and why they can have a really 665 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:09,400 Speaker 1: powerful hold on um anyone's way of being and a functioning, 666 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:15,200 Speaker 1: is that there was a time when you we're safe 667 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:20,160 Speaker 1: at preschool, and you did feel safe at preschool until 668 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,400 Speaker 1: the first abuse instance, and then you were no longer 669 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,480 Speaker 1: say you know what I mean, or the grooming started 670 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,800 Speaker 1: and you started to get that kind of prickly feeling 671 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,320 Speaker 1: or the hair in your arms or like that ikey 672 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 1: feeling and your tell me of like why is he 673 00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: sitting so close to me? Yeah? Um? And so when 674 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,839 Speaker 1: you're triggered by a compliment, it likely brings you back 675 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:46,879 Speaker 1: to those feelings when you were a little girl. M hmm. 676 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,200 Speaker 1: Have we done a writing exercise yet together? If I 677 00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,400 Speaker 1: asked you to do it. UM. I don't think I have, 678 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:59,839 Speaker 1: but I'm thinking it may be helpful. UM, if you're 679 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,960 Speaker 1: for it and interested, I feel free to say no. UM. 680 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:10,839 Speaker 1: But writing a letter to little Annie, to you as 681 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,280 Speaker 1: a little girl, UM, during that first instance of abuse, 682 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:20,040 Speaker 1: H and what you would like to say to her, 683 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:26,200 Speaker 1: are even thinking about what what you what she needs 684 00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:29,719 Speaker 1: or what you would have wanted. I think that could 685 00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,280 Speaker 1: be a powerful exercise to kind of get in tune 686 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:36,359 Speaker 1: with like one year, not that little girl anymore, UM, 687 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:43,600 Speaker 1: but also still you're still so closely connected. Yeah. UM, 688 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:49,279 Speaker 1: that's it's really interesting to me that that's UM, that 689 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,400 Speaker 1: that suggestion, I do you think would be really powerful 690 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,320 Speaker 1: because I I've told you before, I have this UM 691 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,719 Speaker 1: character that I wrote that I later realized she was 692 00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:01,640 Speaker 1: like my trauma personified. And one night I couldn't sleep 693 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,920 Speaker 1: and I wrote a letter to her, apologizing to her 694 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:09,880 Speaker 1: for what I had done to her writing UM, and 695 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,919 Speaker 1: it was really moving. And she's a fictional character. But yeah, 696 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:19,080 Speaker 1: I bet that would be yeah, pretty powerful for me. 697 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,560 Speaker 1: M hm. Right. And if you do do that and 698 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,640 Speaker 1: feel like you want to include that or involve that 699 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:29,319 Speaker 1: in your therapy, that would be UM, great to hear 700 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,400 Speaker 1: and for you to share. Also, the character I know 701 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:36,000 Speaker 1: we've talked about her a bit, UM, feel free to 702 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:41,680 Speaker 1: include her and bring her into any time. Don't tempt me. 703 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,560 Speaker 1: I would love it. I love I love narrative work 704 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,680 Speaker 1: because I think it's just a really powerful way to 705 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:54,200 Speaker 1: do post traumatic healing, especially at the beginning, UM, when 706 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 1: the exposure of talking about your own experiences can be 707 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:02,560 Speaker 1: almost too much. UM. It can feel safer for many 708 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:08,640 Speaker 1: too to share and to talk through a character. Yeah yeah, 709 00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:16,720 Speaker 1: mhm UM. Going back to what we were talking about 710 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:24,279 Speaker 1: about you get over scheduling yourself. UM. Did we chat 711 00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:32,600 Speaker 1: about what you were afraid of if you weren't as scheduled, like, like, 712 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:42,919 Speaker 1: what would happen? UM? I have I have this if 713 00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:49,919 Speaker 1: I sit still too long with myself. UM. I would 714 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:55,759 Speaker 1: describe it as like a like itching. UM. I just 715 00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:04,160 Speaker 1: get really uncomfortable and then I get like this, UM, 716 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:12,200 Speaker 1: like gnawing anxiety of you you should be doing something, 717 00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:17,640 Speaker 1: you should be doing something UM. And it's it's something 718 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:23,680 Speaker 1: that I also experience when I try to sleep UM, 719 00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:30,200 Speaker 1: And I I think I am just afraid of where 720 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:40,440 Speaker 1: my thoughts will go if I don't occupy them. Um. Yeah, 721 00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,680 Speaker 1: Because I mean most of the time, even when I 722 00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:48,000 Speaker 1: can't sleep, it's fine. I mean it's not great, but 723 00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:52,400 Speaker 1: I can't sleep. But there's no like flashback happening or 724 00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:57,520 Speaker 1: anything like that. Um. But sometimes there are, and I 725 00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:05,839 Speaker 1: think that those times are powerful enough that I will 726 00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,440 Speaker 1: do what I have to what I think will be 727 00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:16,400 Speaker 1: my best bet to prevent them. M hmm. Yeah. I 728 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:22,400 Speaker 1: think I'm just really uncomfortable in my own skin mhm. Um, 729 00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:27,799 Speaker 1: and I I like to have distraction from it. M hm. 730 00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:31,399 Speaker 1: Do you feel like you're almost like a different person 731 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:41,520 Speaker 1: when you're around other people? Yeah? Yeah, Um is my WORF. 732 00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:46,279 Speaker 1: I used to say, like my greatest skill I was 733 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:52,680 Speaker 1: pretending everything was okay. Um. I think when I'm around 734 00:51:52,719 --> 00:52:00,359 Speaker 1: other people, I'm just very like happy. I I I'm 735 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,560 Speaker 1: like happy and I lava. All my nicknames are based 736 00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:13,040 Speaker 1: around laughter almost um. Yeah. And then when I'm by myself, 737 00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:18,320 Speaker 1: it's like the opposite end of this spectrum. And I've 738 00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:23,560 Speaker 1: gotten better, I haven't. Um, I've gotten better about being 739 00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:27,319 Speaker 1: like with myself by myself because eventually I had to, 740 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:32,239 Speaker 1: like I was crashing hard. Um. That was one of 741 00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,000 Speaker 1: the things where I knew that I probably needed to 742 00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 1: go get therapy. UM, but yeah, I think I am. 743 00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:46,719 Speaker 1: When I'm out with people, I'm much more like lighter 744 00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:53,200 Speaker 1: and that's because of the distraction, I think so. And 745 00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:59,880 Speaker 1: I think there's also an element of um having you know, 746 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:04,800 Speaker 1: you have that social persona, UM, and my social persona 747 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:10,960 Speaker 1: is that she's like like another person. I am like UM, 748 00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:17,520 Speaker 1: very um fun and outgoing and I'm always down to 749 00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:22,560 Speaker 1: hang and I've always got like jokes and puns and UM, 750 00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,000 Speaker 1: I'm just fun. And I think there's a defense around 751 00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:30,520 Speaker 1: that too, where I have that underlying sense of when 752 00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,560 Speaker 1: people realize what you really are, they'll never want to 753 00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:37,880 Speaker 1: hang out with you. But if you're super fun, then 754 00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,360 Speaker 1: they'll always like invite you to stuff, They'll want to 755 00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,319 Speaker 1: hang out with you. Mm hmm. So it's almost like 756 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,680 Speaker 1: performing mm hmm. That was the sense that I was getting, 757 00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:54,120 Speaker 1: you know. UM. A lot of performers talk about the 758 00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,359 Speaker 1: idea of having a persona, and then when they are 759 00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,760 Speaker 1: out of the um spotlights how to speak or there 760 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:08,560 Speaker 1: cameras aren't really right, then there's this lull of you know, 761 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:14,600 Speaker 1: who am I If I'm not engaging with people in 762 00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:16,960 Speaker 1: ways that are expected of me. You know, there's like 763 00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:21,759 Speaker 1: an identity that's formed around how other people perceive you. 764 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:29,359 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. How do you think that that tendency within 765 00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:32,719 Speaker 1: yourself connects to your traumatic experiences or if you think 766 00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:39,520 Speaker 1: that it does it all? Actually I think um, the 767 00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:47,560 Speaker 1: closest way that it does is probably ah my I 768 00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:56,760 Speaker 1: mean mainly my UM desire that to not make people 769 00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:03,520 Speaker 1: uncomfortable or sad. You protect people, um and make them happy, 770 00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,720 Speaker 1: and in doing so, not sharing that with with people, 771 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:12,279 Speaker 1: not sharing what happened to me with people that are 772 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:17,680 Speaker 1: close to me, UM, like pretending everything is okay so 773 00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:19,839 Speaker 1: that they don't have to worry about it or feel 774 00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:24,680 Speaker 1: bad about it. M Um. To protect others at the 775 00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:34,719 Speaker 1: sake of yourself yeah, um. And even you know, when 776 00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:41,680 Speaker 1: you're trying to cope yourself, you don't want to admit 777 00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,759 Speaker 1: but this has happened to you. Like there's there's even 778 00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:51,360 Speaker 1: an element of that of like if I can almost 779 00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:55,759 Speaker 1: pretend I am this person and then I don't have 780 00:55:55,840 --> 00:56:05,240 Speaker 1: to feel like that vulnerability and that feeling, that feeling 781 00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,759 Speaker 1: that oh I am not over it. There's something very 782 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,640 Speaker 1: alluring about you know what this happened to me? But 783 00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:21,080 Speaker 1: I'm the life of the party. Yeah. Um, but eventually 784 00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:28,360 Speaker 1: you have to go home. Mhm mhmm. Yeah. That's the 785 00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:34,000 Speaker 1: thing about denial, it being one of the most primitive defenses, right, 786 00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:42,480 Speaker 1: is that, um, it can only work for so long. Yeah. Uh. 787 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:48,440 Speaker 1: And that's the thing about trauma, you know, and whether 788 00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:54,880 Speaker 1: it's denial, avoidance, or dissociation or all of the above, Ah, 789 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,000 Speaker 1: it will find a way to come out mm hmm. 790 00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:06,160 Speaker 1: And man of best itself, you know, which is why UM, 791 00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:12,520 Speaker 1: trauma focused work can be so scary because it removes 792 00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:18,000 Speaker 1: that defense. UM. But also that's the same reason why 793 00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:24,000 Speaker 1: it's really powerful, because UM it has the ability to 794 00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:26,360 Speaker 1: get to the root of the issue so that it 795 00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:35,480 Speaker 1: can be less poignant and impactful in one's life. Yeah, 796 00:57:35,800 --> 00:57:38,240 Speaker 1: I'm just talking about it like you're doing. Is a 797 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:53,280 Speaker 1: really big part of that process mm hmm. Yeah. Oh man, Yeah, 798 00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:58,000 Speaker 1: it's it's been I don't know, it does feel like 799 00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:02,439 Speaker 1: I have if there's almost two people that are living 800 00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:08,120 Speaker 1: inside of me. Um. Just so it sounds weird to say, 801 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,680 Speaker 1: but I do feel like there's the one that most 802 00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:23,240 Speaker 1: people know mm hmm, and there's another one yeah, and 803 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:28,120 Speaker 1: the other one is hidden because out of is the 804 00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:35,240 Speaker 1: other one hidden out of UM, fear that the people 805 00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:40,720 Speaker 1: close to you would not be there for you or 806 00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:48,040 Speaker 1: would look at you differently if they knew. Yeah. Yeah, 807 00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:54,720 Speaker 1: I have a pretty decent amount of fear that when 808 00:58:55,960 --> 00:59:04,880 Speaker 1: you meet people mm hmmm, I'm comfortable, um, or if 809 00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:10,320 Speaker 1: they see they hear these things about you and they're thinking, oh, man, M, 810 00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:13,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if I want to have to deal 811 00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:21,840 Speaker 1: with this. And that's that's being really to my friends. Um, 812 00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:26,919 Speaker 1: I'm fairly confident. Yeah, I'm almost you know, it's me. 813 00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:33,120 Speaker 1: It's I'm the line M that is uncomfortable with with 814 00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:42,440 Speaker 1: being open with that person. Mm hmm. Yeah yeah. And 815 00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:46,040 Speaker 1: even just saying that, Um, there's a lot of emotion 816 00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:56,360 Speaker 1: in that statement. I can see what makes you the 817 00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:06,760 Speaker 1: most uncomfortable about that? Do you think I think? Um? 818 01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:10,520 Speaker 1: I think it makes it real, It makes it like 819 01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:13,200 Speaker 1: I can't and that's another thing I can't take back 820 01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:20,640 Speaker 1: and did. Also, I have built myself on on making 821 01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:25,280 Speaker 1: people happy and on also being strong. It feels like 822 01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:32,120 Speaker 1: admitting I was weak mm hmmm. Um. And there are 823 01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:39,720 Speaker 1: certain things that um, I think people find funny about 824 01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:43,240 Speaker 1: me that I think if they knew this source was 825 01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:51,240 Speaker 1: from traumatic experience, they would feel guilty and also like, so, 826 01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:55,760 Speaker 1: for example, I'm very easily startled. Um, it's kind of 827 01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:59,120 Speaker 1: like a joke and it doesn't upset me, Like I'm 828 01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:03,400 Speaker 1: not I'm not saying this, but I'm worried that every 829 01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:08,080 Speaker 1: time someone startled me who knew that after the facts, right, 830 01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,120 Speaker 1: there would be this moment of like, oh, yeah, that 831 01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:16,840 Speaker 1: thing happened to you, right, right? So, so part of 832 01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:18,480 Speaker 1: what I hear you saying is that you feel like 833 01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:27,880 Speaker 1: if people knew, then they would start to think of 834 01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:34,479 Speaker 1: you as either a victim or as they think about 835 01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,360 Speaker 1: the abuse when thinking about you. Is that is that 836 01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:41,120 Speaker 1: part of what I hear you saying, hm, right, and 837 01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:43,560 Speaker 1: that you want to be known for so many other 838 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:49,760 Speaker 1: things M yeah, rightfully, so I can I can understand 839 01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:54,320 Speaker 1: that fear. I think that's also tied into what you 840 01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:56,080 Speaker 1: said about how you feel like people would think of 841 01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:59,800 Speaker 1: you as weak mm hmm. You know, and I think 842 01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:02,640 Speaker 1: that you know, we've talked a bit about like unhelpful 843 01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:09,040 Speaker 1: um like cognitions and kind of unhelpful core beliefs around 844 01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,240 Speaker 1: the trauma that have been internalized that will do some 845 01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:17,040 Speaker 1: work on externalizing and then restoring through narrative work. But um, 846 01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:23,640 Speaker 1: this idea that trauma makes somebody weak is one that 847 01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:27,600 Speaker 1: I you know, I know, UM is a recurring theme 848 01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:29,840 Speaker 1: in our work together, and that I hear you talk 849 01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:34,480 Speaker 1: about in regards to yourself versus which is the same 850 01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:40,560 Speaker 1: as like the victim versus survivor m right, um, when 851 01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:42,720 Speaker 1: in fact it was actually a resilience in your strength 852 01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:52,400 Speaker 1: that allows you to continue to persevere and um thrive. Yeah. 853 01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:56,360 Speaker 1: And there's an element too of um, a survivor taking 854 01:02:56,400 --> 01:03:02,000 Speaker 1: on the persona or the identity of weakness that absolves 855 01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:07,200 Speaker 1: the offender of all of the responsibility. Yeah, you know 856 01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:15,880 Speaker 1: what I mean. M Yeah, just throwing that out there. 857 01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:17,520 Speaker 1: Not much that we have to do with that now, 858 01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:22,480 Speaker 1: but bookmarking some things to make sure that we address 859 01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:28,439 Speaker 1: and come back to. Yeah. Yeah, I think I've told 860 01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:31,080 Speaker 1: you before. I on days where I like, I can 861 01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:37,040 Speaker 1: feel compassion m um for my younger self because she 862 01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:40,240 Speaker 1: does feel like a younger sister. She doesn't, she doesn't 863 01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:43,960 Speaker 1: feel like me at all, But sometimes I'm like in 864 01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:51,560 Speaker 1: awe of what she dealt with. Yeah. I hope for 865 01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:56,440 Speaker 1: you that you can sit in that sense of awe 866 01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:04,680 Speaker 1: and let that permeate you more. Uh, because when I 867 01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:06,240 Speaker 1: sit with you and when I talk with you and 868 01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,840 Speaker 1: see you, that's what I see. And I'm sure that 869 01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:12,320 Speaker 1: the people in your life, UM that love you and 870 01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:17,720 Speaker 1: that are close with you see the same thing. Mhm 871 01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:30,000 Speaker 1: mhm mm hmm. So why don't this week We're gonna 872 01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:31,600 Speaker 1: have to pause in a moment, but why don't this 873 01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:35,240 Speaker 1: week you UM try to approach some of the self 874 01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:39,600 Speaker 1: compassion with intentionality and UM, even if it's just a 875 01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:45,360 Speaker 1: moment every day a thinking through and reflecting something that UM, 876 01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:53,040 Speaker 1: you are in awe of about yourself. Okay, Okay, I'm 877 01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:57,600 Speaker 1: gonna ask you about that next session. Okay, homework perfect. 878 01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:09,600 Speaker 1: And that's that. That's what therapy can look like. UM. 879 01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:11,960 Speaker 1: I never really know how these are going to go. 880 01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:13,160 Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was going to talk about. 881 01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,800 Speaker 1: I knew what I wouldn't talk about, UM, but I 882 01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:19,320 Speaker 1: I believe me I had that is the last thing 883 01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:22,439 Speaker 1: I thought I was And just so you know, I 884 01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,080 Speaker 1: was not present for this. Um our producer Andrew, who 885 01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:27,240 Speaker 1: was fantastic, was not present for those because we wanted 886 01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:29,840 Speaker 1: you to be in your safe, in your place and 887 01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:34,520 Speaker 1: make it normal as possible. With headphones and my I mean, 888 01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:37,680 Speaker 1: I will say for me it felt normal, but yeah, 889 01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:42,160 Speaker 1: that was something like even though we're here talking about it, obviously, UM, 890 01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,320 Speaker 1: it was done in a private manner. And there are 891 01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:49,120 Speaker 1: things we may have taken out or put up, get 892 01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:53,040 Speaker 1: together whatever, not necessarily rearranged, but put together because we 893 01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:56,400 Speaker 1: felt it was important. So again, we were still protecting 894 01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:59,600 Speaker 1: our own um selves, in our own emotions, in our 895 01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:03,760 Speaker 1: own and heal mental health. Yes, so just again Yeah, 896 01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:07,880 Speaker 1: and UM. One thing I did want to mention that 897 01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:11,680 Speaker 1: I have really appreciated about doing these sessions with Dr 898 01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:13,720 Speaker 1: Coleman is she gives me a lot of tools like 899 01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:18,400 Speaker 1: coping tools, UM, like safe place, measuring distress units. UM. 900 01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:22,400 Speaker 1: Will probably come back and talk about those in future episodes. Uh. 901 01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,360 Speaker 1: And one thing I found interesting after listening back to 902 01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,920 Speaker 1: this is I really played it safe. I wanted to 903 01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:31,880 Speaker 1: play it safe. UM. I didn't want to get into 904 01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:35,240 Speaker 1: details of my abuse. But at the same time, there 905 01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:37,760 Speaker 1: was something she asked me where I didn't even think 906 01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,919 Speaker 1: about the abuse and I should have, Like, um, there's 907 01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:43,680 Speaker 1: this question around control. And if I imagine my brain 908 01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:46,439 Speaker 1: is Google and she's giving me a search term, it's 909 01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:48,440 Speaker 1: like those sections of my life are blocked results. They 910 01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:53,440 Speaker 1: didn't even appear until later, and I was thinking about it, like, oh, 911 01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:58,040 Speaker 1: one of those moments. My denial game is very strong. Um. 912 01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,240 Speaker 1: And not that the answer I gave wasn't true. It's 913 01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:04,680 Speaker 1: very true, but it's just not the obvious choice at all. Um. 914 01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:09,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, I hope that if you've ever thought you 915 01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:13,160 Speaker 1: were the only one that had these very severe insecurities 916 01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:15,440 Speaker 1: and low self esteem, I present proof that you are not. 917 01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:19,240 Speaker 1: I think you and I'd already talked about the fight 918 01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:22,400 Speaker 1: that we both had a session about being feeling like 919 01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:26,240 Speaker 1: we had the imposter syndrome, and specifically about this podcast, 920 01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:31,520 Speaker 1: I think, oh yes, um, yep, but um, yeah, we 921 01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:35,040 Speaker 1: hope that this is um made it less scary, maybe 922 01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:38,600 Speaker 1: helped to stigmatize it a little for you listeners, And 923 01:07:38,640 --> 01:07:43,080 Speaker 1: you will be hearing Samantha's in the next episode. But 924 01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:48,280 Speaker 1: in the meantime, UM, thank you so much for joining us, Samantha, 925 01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:51,040 Speaker 1: Thank you guys let me be a part of this. Yeah, 926 01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:54,320 Speaker 1: and thanks to Dr Coleman, who agreed to do this 927 01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:57,880 Speaker 1: after after months of careful thoughts. So, if you're in 928 01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:01,320 Speaker 1: Georgia or in Vermont and you handle Ford therapy, she 929 01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:05,360 Speaker 1: is fantastic. Um. Thus far she has called me out 930 01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,000 Speaker 1: on a lot of things, which is in a good way. Yes, 931 01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:11,480 Speaker 1: in a good way. UM. Thanks as always to our 932 01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:14,680 Speaker 1: super producer Andrew Howard. Andrew, we love you, we do, 933 01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:18,720 Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. If you would like 934 01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:21,240 Speaker 1: to write to as you can, Our email is mom 935 01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:23,000 Speaker 1: Stuff at our stuff works dot com. You can also 936 01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:26,160 Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast and on 937 01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:29,040 Speaker 1: Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You. Give us the resources. 938 01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:31,519 Speaker 1: Stuff Mom Never Told You was a production of I 939 01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:34,439 Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. For more podcast from I 940 01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,160 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 941 01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:39,000 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.