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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

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Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they

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Speaker 2: have individualism?

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Speaker 1: It's a patriarchy. Zeph and Vest start changing with the

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Speaker 1: Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Jamie, Hey Caitlin, how many layers of Indian do

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Speaker 3: you think we have between us?

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Speaker 2: What's a polite answer.

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Speaker 3: I think it's eight thousand or more.

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Speaker 2: Ooh, okay, let's go for it. Yes, we are connected

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Speaker 2: in unprecedented way.

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Speaker 3: We're basically married, so we are spiritually married. It's true.

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Speaker 2: That is actually I do think that that is true.

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Speaker 3: I think so.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is true.

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Speaker 2: There is nothing stronger than the bond between two podcasters.

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Speaker 3: We know so much about each other.

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Speaker 2: It's true. It's true.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: My name is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Toronte,

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Speaker 3: and this is our show where we examine movies through

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Speaker 3: an intersection feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test simply as

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Speaker 3: a jumping off point to initiate much larger conversations. But

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Speaker 3: what is the Bechdel test, Jamie?

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Speaker 2: Well, it is a media metric created by queer cartoonist

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Speaker 2: Alison Bechdel often called the Bechdel Wallace test because it

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Speaker 2: was co created with her friend Liz Wallace. There's a

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Speaker 2: lot of different versions of this test. It was originally

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Speaker 2: just made as a one off kind of gag in

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Speaker 2: her Wonderful Comics collection Dikes to Watch out For, and

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Speaker 2: it's sort of evolved over the years. The version of

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Speaker 2: the test that we use require that two characters of

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Speaker 2: a marginalized gender with names speak to each other about

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Speaker 2: something other than a man for more than two lines

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Speaker 2: of dialogue, and they should be meaningful lines of dialogue,

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Speaker 2: no how would you like your burger cooked? Type of

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Speaker 2: random interaction. We don't let movies get away with a

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Speaker 2: barely pass, and also we kind of barely talk about

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Speaker 2: it because it's just a jumping off point for discussion.

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Speaker 2: There's so many things to talk about with movies, but

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Speaker 2: for a long time and still often this bare minimum

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Speaker 2: never takes place.

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Speaker 3: So it is true and there is a lot to

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Speaker 3: talk about. In today's movie, which is Past Lives that

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Speaker 3: came out last year.

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Speaker 2: I feel like every single person who listened to this

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Speaker 2: show requested this movie. Yeah, it's been out for I

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Speaker 2: think it's been out for over a year now, but

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Speaker 2: it felt like throughout last year, as it became more

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Speaker 2: available and theater is more available on streaming, that people

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Speaker 2: were discovering it. And yeah, I'm so excited. The day

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Speaker 2: has come. It's Past Lives Day on the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: It sure is, and we have a wonderful guest here

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Speaker 3: with us to chat about it. She is a sociologist

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Speaker 3: and author of Real Inequality, Hollywood Actors and Racism. It's

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Speaker 3: Nancy wong Yun.

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Speaker 1: Hello, Hi, so it gets you here.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, And just because this is an audio medium, it's

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Speaker 2: want to shout out Nancy's everything everywhere, all at once.

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Speaker 2: Post that is behind her just an important addition to

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Speaker 2: every home.

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Speaker 3: Exactly.

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Speaker 1: Is that a show that you've talked about on your podcast?

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Speaker 3: Not yet, we haven't covered it yet.

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Speaker 2: There's a few movies that we're sort of like, we're

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Speaker 2: gonna make the listeners wait and wait and wait and

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Speaker 2: then surprise them one day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: This movie, however, we got so many requests that were like,

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Speaker 2: we cannot play the long game with Past Lives. So

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Speaker 2: to start, we're curious. I know it's a fairly recent movie,

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Speaker 2: but what is your history with this movie?

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Speaker 1: You know, I was attending Sundance virtually the year that

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Speaker 1: it screened in Sundance, I think, I think, actually maybe

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Speaker 1: it was supposed to do it over the pandemic, and

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Speaker 1: there was delays, and it finally screened in Utah and Sundance,

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Speaker 1: but because I was only joining on line virtually, I

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Speaker 1: couldn't see it, and it built up all this anticipation

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Speaker 1: for myself. I was like, Oh my gosh, that's like

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Speaker 1: the one movie I really want to see. But they

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Speaker 1: were you know, sometimes they just do in person screenings

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Speaker 1: and they don't allow for online viewing for journalists and

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Speaker 1: general audience. And so that was the year that it

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Speaker 1: came out. But A twenty four had contacted me with

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Speaker 1: an early press screening I think soon after it premiered

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Speaker 1: at Sundance, and so I drove all the way out

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Speaker 1: to La I'm in the suburbs, and I was just

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Speaker 1: sitting in a screening room. There were only maybe four

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Speaker 1: or five other journalists, but it was a very small

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Speaker 1: screening room, and I remember watching it and being emotionally

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Speaker 1: drained and excited and just something that I had never

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Speaker 1: seen that I would expect to kind of reflect my

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Speaker 1: own experience and enlighten my own experience and speak to it.

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Speaker 1: So I was, yeah, I was really I had a

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Speaker 1: deep connection with the film since the first time I

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Speaker 1: saw it, and.

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Speaker 3: Then you spoke to Selene's song and wrote a piece

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Speaker 3: about it, which is how we Yes do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I then pitched an interview with Elle, and

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Speaker 1: you know, pitched my idea because after I saw the film,

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Speaker 1: I thought that it was a film about immigration for sure,

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Speaker 1: but that the entire metaphor of the relationship had to

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Speaker 1: do with kind of immigrant lives, and so that was

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Speaker 1: how I pitched it. And I ended up talking to

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Speaker 1: Selene very long about it. And it's so funny because

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Speaker 1: she and I talked about are In Young, just like

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Speaker 1: you all talked about yours, and she really really believes

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Speaker 1: in it, and I felt like I was so also

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Speaker 1: enlightened about ying Young through Selene and her saying that

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Speaker 1: she and I had Eyan Young too, because I actually

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Speaker 1: saw her on before I interviewed her. I saw her

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Speaker 1: very very briefly at this thing called the Gold Gala.

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Speaker 1: She was It was an Asian American and kind of

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Speaker 1: award show, and she was walking the Gold carpet, and

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Speaker 1: I like flagged her down. I said, oh, Selene, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be interviewing you suit oh for all and

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Speaker 1: thinking about, I guess, all the moments where we happen

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Speaker 1: to meet up with one another, right, all the different

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Speaker 1: potential and unrealized and realized connections. All of that is

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Speaker 1: to think about as part of kind of a larger

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Speaker 1: I don't know, fabric of some sort. It was very

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Speaker 1: beautiful to think about.

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Speaker 2: That's really beautiful.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I love it. Well, Jamie, what is

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Speaker 3: your relationship with this movie?

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Speaker 2: I have a kind of funny relationship with this movie.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's Selene Song's debut film. I wasn't familiar

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Speaker 2: with her work prior to this, but I was really

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Speaker 2: excited to see as a longtime Greta Lee fan. Who

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Speaker 2: is I mean, it's so funny because I primarily thought

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Speaker 2: of her as a comic actress because she's done so

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Speaker 2: many great TV roles over the years. I always think

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Speaker 2: of how great she was in Russian Doll. But I mean,

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Speaker 2: she's been in so much over the years, and like

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Speaker 2: rarely gets to properly lead. So I was very excited

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Speaker 2: to see her and I was going to see it

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Speaker 2: when it first came into theaters, and I texted my

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Speaker 2: brother like, I'm going to go see Past Lives and

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Speaker 2: he had just seen it and he knew I was

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Speaker 2: going through a gnarly breakup and he literally texted me, Jamie,

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Speaker 2: I don't think you're in a good emotional place to

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Speaker 2: see Past Lives right now. I remember this, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I was like, Wow, my brother has never said

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Speaker 2: anything remotely like that to me. I guess I'll listen.

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Speaker 2: And so I didn't see it until a couple of

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Speaker 2: months ago when I checked in with him and he

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Speaker 2: said he thought I, in fact was now in a

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Speaker 2: good enough emotional place to see Past Lives, and I

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Speaker 2: think he was right. But yeah, I mean, I loved

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Speaker 2: this movie. I loved this movie. It will get into it,

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Speaker 2: but it's so beautiful and I feel like it's really

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Speaker 2: rare to find a movie that is both extremely specific

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Speaker 2: but any viewer can feel their own lived experience through it.

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Speaker 2: And just like these ships passing in the night, types

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Speaker 2: of relationships are so heart wrenching and rare to see

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Speaker 2: done thoughtfully on screen. And I just think this movie

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Speaker 2: is so beautiful and I'm excited to talk about it, Caitlin,

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Speaker 2: what's your history with Past Lives?

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Speaker 3: I saw it in theaters and I really enjoyed it,

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Speaker 3: and I really appreciate it when we're doing an episode

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Speaker 3: on a movie that there's like nothing bad to say

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Speaker 3: about the movie, because most of our job is wow,

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Speaker 3: everything was so problematic or the things that were interesting

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Speaker 3: and subversive are sort of overshadowed by all of the

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Speaker 3: other problematic things that are happening, And this movie is

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Speaker 3: just like pure wonderfulness, you know. And I appreciate movies

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Speaker 3: like that, episodes like this because it's a brother of

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Speaker 3: fresh air. But yeah, so I'm also excited to talk

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Speaker 3: about it. And should we just get into the recap

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Speaker 3: and go from there.

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Speaker 2: Let's do it.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break first, and then we'll come

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Speaker 3: back for the recap and we're back. Okay, So here

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Speaker 3: is Past Lives. We open on three people who are

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Speaker 3: having a drink at a bar. It's an Asian man,

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Speaker 3: an Asian woman, and a white man, and we hear

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Speaker 3: nearby people speculating on what these three people's dynamic must be.

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Speaker 3: They're like, oh, are two of them in a relationship?

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Speaker 3: Are any of them related to each other? Are they

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Speaker 3: just colleagues? Well, we're about to find out.

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Speaker 1: Can I say something. I actually was just in Boston

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Speaker 1: and I went to a restaurant and I could only

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Speaker 1: be seated at the bar, and I literally saw three

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Speaker 1: people that look like the three people the way. I

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Speaker 1: even snapped a photo, but then I was like, I

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Speaker 1: felt uncomfortable posting it because you know, I didn't do

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Speaker 1: it like with their consent. The Asian woman even has

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Speaker 1: short hairs, just like Greta Ellie's character and Nora, and

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Speaker 1: I just I just thought, what are the chances that

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Speaker 1: maybe there are a lot of people that you know

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Speaker 1: the kind of you know, three people and you don't

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Speaker 1: know what their relationships are to each other. But this

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Speaker 1: literally happened, I think two days ago, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I'm gotta be talking about past lives

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Speaker 1: and I can't believe I'm seeing potentially a real life

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Speaker 1: past lives moment in front of me.

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Speaker 2: Cilian song opened our third eye. This dynamic is everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Exactly the thing that you don't notice, and all of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, it's everywhere. Yes, that is the Asian woman

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Speaker 1: with the Asian man and a white man. Who what

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Speaker 1: happens all over the country, but this is uh it

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Speaker 1: was cool to witness in real life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I wonder what their dynamic was, but no idea.

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Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't feel comfortable enough to get like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you'll remind you pass lies your ex from your home country.

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Speaker 1: That would have been terrible. The woman would be like,

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Speaker 1: are you racist? What are you doing now? I'm just

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Speaker 1: a huge past life fad.

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Speaker 3: That's hilarious. Okay, So we see them in the present day,

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Speaker 3: but then we cut to twenty four years earlier. We

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Speaker 3: are in Seoul, Korea, and we meet two twelve year

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Speaker 3: old kids, Now Young and her friend hey Sung, and

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Speaker 3: they are friends and classmates. Hey Sung always walks home

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Speaker 3: with now Young after school. Niong is upset because she's

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Speaker 3: used to getting like the top grades in her class,

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Speaker 3: but hay Sung has outperformed her today, so she's crying

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Speaker 3: about it and he's trying to comfort her. Very sweet

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Speaker 3: interaction between kids, and then Niong arrives home. Her family

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Speaker 3: is gearing up to immigrate to Canada. I think Toronto

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Speaker 3: is where they're going, and she and her younger sister

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Speaker 3: are picking out English names. Niong goes with Nora. Her

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Speaker 3: little sister goes with Michelle, and then Niong tells her

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Speaker 3: mom about Hey Sung how she'll probably marry him someday,

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Speaker 3: and her mom asks if she wants to go on

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Speaker 3: a date with him, So her mom takes the two

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Speaker 3: of them to the park for a little kid date.

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Speaker 3: Haysong's mom is also there. Naiong's mom wants to make

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Speaker 3: good memories for her before the family leaves for Canada,

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Speaker 3: so that's why they're kind of chaperone this date. And

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Speaker 3: they have a nice time on the date. They even

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Speaker 3: hold hands.

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Speaker 2: It's so cute.

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Speaker 3: It's adorable.

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Speaker 1: And the two moms have a conversation too.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Heysong's mom is asking why they're immigrating, especially because

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Speaker 3: Niong's mother is an artist and her father is a

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Speaker 3: film director, and she's like, why would you leave all

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Speaker 3: that behind? And I think she responds with, well, when

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Speaker 3: you leave something behind, you also gain something.

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Speaker 1: So I love that. That's really deep. It's such a

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Speaker 1: deep kind of immigration or just you know, life kind of.

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Speaker 1: It's such a simple conversation, but I remember feeling the

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Speaker 1: ways of that. I want to write. I want to

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Speaker 1: write that down and think about that some more.

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Speaker 3: M hmm totally. And then Haysong finds out that Nyong

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Speaker 3: will be leaving soon and he's sad and we're sad.

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Speaker 3: And then Nay Young and her mom, dad, and sister

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Speaker 3: moved to Canada. We see her briefly at school. She

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Speaker 3: seems to be feeling out of place, and then we

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Speaker 3: cut to twelve years later. So now it's twenty twelve. Nyong,

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Speaker 3: who goes by Nora now, is living in New York City.

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Speaker 3: Ever heard of it. She's played by Greta Lee, and

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Speaker 3: she's chatting on the phone with her mom and they're

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Speaker 3: joking around and like looking up people that they used

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Speaker 3: to know on Facebook, and Nora is like, well, what

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Speaker 3: about that boy? I had a huge crush on hey song,

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Speaker 3: And so she looks him up and she sees a

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Speaker 3: post of his on Facebook from a few months prior

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Speaker 3: where he's like asking about her and looking for her.

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Speaker 3: So Norah messages him on Facebook being like, Hi, it's me.

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Speaker 4: God.

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Speaker 2: That's already such wish fulfillment to be like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're crush from when you're twelve, they're looking for you,

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Speaker 2: they still love you, right sequences. I mean, they're beautiful narratively,

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Speaker 2: but I also is just like wow, Selene's song nailed

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Speaker 2: like there were a few twenty twelve details that were

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Speaker 2: kind of triggering. The like sound of a Skype call,

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Speaker 2: You're like, uh, like, I haven't. It's been eighty four

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Speaker 2: years since I've heard the sound of a Skype call,

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Speaker 2: or like the Facebook messenger interface. You're like, god, this

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Speaker 2: is like, this is where I made so many mistakes

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Speaker 2: on this exact interface.

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Speaker 3: Wi It has been eighty four years and I can

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Speaker 3: still see the grainy video quality. So Hey song now

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Speaker 3: played by Tayo. You gets the message from Nora and

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Speaker 3: he's all excited, and then they start corresponding back and forth.

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Speaker 3: They do a Skype call and he's like, I've been

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Speaker 3: trying really hard to find you, and he was having

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Speaker 3: trouble finding her because she had changed her name to

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Speaker 3: Nora and catch up. She tells him that she's a playwright.

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Speaker 3: He is in school studying engineering, and then he gets

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Speaker 3: very kind of Erna tells her that he has missed her,

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Speaker 3: and she's like me too, who And they continue meeting

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Speaker 3: up pretty regularly over Skype, and she tells him about

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Speaker 3: this upcoming month long artist residency that she will be

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Speaker 3: doing on Long Island, I think. And he says, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to China soon to learn Mandarin. And she's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you should come to New York and learn English. And

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Speaker 3: he says that he may be able to come visit,

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Speaker 3: but it would probably be like a year and a

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Speaker 3: half from then, and she's like, well, it probably won't

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Speaker 3: be a year at least until I would be able

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Speaker 3: to come back to Seoul to visit. And so she

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Speaker 3: decides that she wants them to stop talking for a

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Speaker 3: while because she wants to commit to her life in

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Speaker 3: New York and accomplished something there, and she feels as

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Speaker 3: though her like considering this visit to Korea to see

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Speaker 3: him is sort of like distracting her from her goals.

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Speaker 2: That is the point in the Vivia is like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: she is stronger than me.

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Speaker 1: She is stronger than me.

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Speaker 2: I would be like, let's do long distance forever.

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Speaker 1: Why not?

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Speaker 2: What's the worst that could happen? And I was like, wow,

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Speaker 2: good healthy boundaries. Love to see it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think there were a lot of like technical difficulties

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Speaker 1: where they're missing each other because of the time difference,

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Speaker 1: and you know, tech drops and you know, someone's sleeping,

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Speaker 1: someone's hill calling in. I think it's like the kind

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Speaker 1: of typical long distance and also across time zones issues.

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Speaker 3: For sure, And so you know, Nora communicates this boundary

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Speaker 3: to him and he understands, but he's really sad about

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Speaker 3: it and they say goodbye. Then nor heads to that

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Speaker 3: artist residency retreat and it's at this house where she

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Speaker 3: meets Arthur, another writer played by John Macgaro.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the future author of Boner Boner.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I think I missed that.

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Speaker 2: Oh his book is named Boner, which I is one

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Speaker 2: of my favorite details in the movie.

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Speaker 3: So funny. Is it nonfiction? Is it fiction? I don't

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Speaker 3: really care. I love that his book is named Boner.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I have no beef with Arthur, but I just think

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Speaker 2: that that is the funniest Like Brett Easton ellis vibe ripoff,

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Speaker 2: like white guy novel, Like it's called Boner.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh I love that detail.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I think I paid no attention to him

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Speaker 1: at all. I was like, could you just maybe go

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Speaker 1: away so that two people that deserve to be with

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Speaker 1: each other are together.

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Speaker 2: Like he just speaks to my level of maturity, where

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Speaker 2: if the word boner's on screen, my eye is go

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00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,040
Speaker 2: and drift there and alaser focus. Yeah, I was like,

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Speaker 2: oh there.

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Speaker 1: Seriously, I saw I think I've seen the movie at

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Speaker 1: least three times, and I never saw that.

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Speaker 3: You see it In that scene where they're at a bookstore,

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Speaker 3: I think he's doing a book signing, and so there's

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Speaker 3: stacks of his book and I forget what's on the cover.

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Speaker 1: What's on the cover? Did I even miss that? It's

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Speaker 1: just words, right, it's just words.

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Speaker 3: It says Boner. And then there's a photo that I

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Speaker 3: think has nothing to do with boner, but the title

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Speaker 3: is very visible.

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Speaker 2: Also, just another shout out to Celine Song's restraint at

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Speaker 2: having that be the title and having no one pointed

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Speaker 2: out I would not be able to shut up if

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Speaker 2: my weird husband wrote a book called Boner. But it's

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Speaker 2: not what the movie's about.

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Speaker 3: No, But where's the sequel in which that is all

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Speaker 3: they talk about?

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Speaker 2: Where's this to screen adaptation of what if? That's Selene

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Speaker 2: Song's next project? The adaptation of Bone of bon kidding,

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00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 2: just kidding, watch just enough of Arthur in this movie.

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Speaker 2: But that was just like a great detail.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.

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Speaker 1: Oh and we never mentioned that all of this is

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Speaker 1: based on her real life, right, it's loosely based on

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Speaker 1: selling songs real life.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yes, she also met I think her husband at an

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00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,640
Speaker 1: artist thing and he is a writer, and she did

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Speaker 1: have a childhood love and the whole bar scene actually

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Speaker 1: happened in her real life. That is when it was

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Speaker 1: like during the bar scene that you start thinking about, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I wonder what people think of us, and I'm going

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Speaker 1: to make this into it.

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Speaker 3: This is a movie. Yeah, yeah, I love that. Okay.

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Speaker 3: So Nora and Arthur meet and they get to chatting.

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Speaker 3: They hit it off. She tells him about a word

374
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 3: in Korean in young which which means providence or fate,

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Speaker 3: but it specifically refers to relationships between people. For example,

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Speaker 3: it's in Yuan. If two strangers pass on the street

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00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 3: and their clothes accidentally brush, it means there must have

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00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 3: been something between them in their past lives that's the

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00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 3: name of the movie. Or if, for example, two people

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Speaker 3: get married, it's said that there must have been eight

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Speaker 3: thousand layers of in Yuan over the course of like

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00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 3: eight thousand lifetimes. And then Nora is like, TIHI, I

383
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 3: don't really believe in this. It's just something Koreans say

384
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 3: to seduce someone and then he's like oh, and then

385
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:47,160
Speaker 3: they smooch. Meanwhile, Hayesan heads to China for this language

386
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:51,719
Speaker 3: exchange program, but he's not smooching anyone.

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Speaker 1: He's sitting next to someone. He's sitting next to someone eating. Yes,

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Speaker 1: there's a luck.

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Speaker 3: Yes they're eyeing each other.

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00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably maybe you know more culturally, it's not like

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Speaker 1: you smooch someone on the first Well, I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to smooch on the first night. But I guess the

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00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 1: artists colony is different than meeting a restaurant.

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00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 3: True. People are so horny during artists residencies, so it seems.

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Speaker 1: To be true.

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Speaker 2: I know it feels like adult summer cap kind of right.

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Speaker 3: I think that's why people go on them. They're like, sure,

398
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Speaker 3: i'll write a little bit, but I'm here to fuck.

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Speaker 2: I wrote forty words and I fucked everyone, and you're like.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

401
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 3: So then we cut to another twelve years later, so

402
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 3: we are now in present day. Nora and Arthur are married.

403
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,159
Speaker 3: They still live in New York City. Nourra is an

404
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 3: accomplished playwright, and Arthur has a book published called Boner.

405
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 3: And then we learn that Haisung is coming to New

406
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Speaker 3: York to be there on vacation, and he wants to

407
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 3: link up with Nora, although he does know that Nora

408
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 3: is married, so it's not like that will be a

409
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 3: surprise to him. And so he arrives in New York

410
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 3: and he and Nora meet up. They have a tender reunion.

411
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Speaker 3: They walk around the city and catch up.

412
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Speaker 2: My god, it's so good, it's so beautiful, Like the

413
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 2: second they see each other, I'm crying for the rest

414
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 2: of the movie.

415
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there isn't anything cheesy in terms of like

416
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 1: it's not like, you know, all of a sudden they

417
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 1: embrace and they go into a passionate kiss. Now because

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00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,880
Speaker 1: she is married, she's happily married, and yet there is

419
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: this tension that is so visceral just by them looking

420
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 1: at each other, speaking in and laughing and giggling and

421
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 1: small little touches and oh it's it's it's better, right.

422
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: It's like it's like how ca dramas are in terms of,

423
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:59,160
Speaker 1: you know, more of a slow burn, very slow burn.

424
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, just the casting in this movie is

425
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 2: off the chart, like and just how subtle the performances are,

426
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 2: because it like there is this base part of me

427
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 2: that is like kiss but it's like but they're really

428
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 2: it's just like so well done. And again, like Selene

429
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: Song has incredible like restraint and like how she paces

430
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: these sequences.

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Speaker 3: It's so beautiful. There's a scene where they're sitting in

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00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 3: front of like a Merry go Round kind of thing,

433
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 3: and yeah, she's talking and he's like staring very intently

434
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 3: at her, and I'm so conditioned from watching movies that

435
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 3: I thought he was gonna kind of like lunge at

436
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Speaker 3: her and kiss her during like a lull in their conversation,

437
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 3: because like we've seen something like that so many times

438
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 3: and it never happens. And that's not the type of

439
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 3: thing that would happen in this movie, because this movie

440
00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 3: doesn't like adhere to any of those Hollywood tropy sappy,

441
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 3: corny moments like.

442
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 1: That and problematic moments exactly.

443
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 2: Y yeah, yeah, God, it's like, yeah, that's like what

444
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 2: we've been talking about every week for eight years, is

445
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 2: like the conditioning to surprise kiss someone and there's no

446
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 2: consent and there's you know, it's all of this you know, patriarchal.

447
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:21,679
Speaker 3: Wish fulfillment for sure.

448
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 2: And I mean I think That's probably part of why

449
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 2: I wasn't emotionally prepared to see it at the time,

450
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 2: is because it feels so authentic for sure.

451
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, because even at one point Nora's husband says, gosh,

452
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: I'm the white husband like third wheel here. It's something

453
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: like that, right where he actually exactly names the thing

454
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: that we're all all the audiences thinking, yeah, and he

455
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: actually says it rather than I think embody some sort

456
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: of toxic masculinity where he starts to be suspicious of

457
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: her or questioning or whatever that we're used to in

458
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: terms of Hollywood troms.

459
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I'm really excited to talk about like the

460
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 3: men's reactions to things because it's I think very interesting.

461
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 3: But in any case, so Nora and Hayesan are catching up.

462
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 3: He tells her about his girlfriend, who he is not

463
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 3: currently with because he feels as though he should make

464
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 3: more money and be less ordinary before like it's appropriate

465
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 3: for them to get married. And Norah asks him why

466
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 3: he was looking for her all those years ago, and

467
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 3: he's like, well, you disappeared so suddenly from my life,

468
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 3: and he was upset about it, and he clearly like

469
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 3: didn't get any closure from it, and so then Nora

470
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 3: returns home to Arthur and she's like, you were right,

471
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 3: he did come here to see me, and she goes

472
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 3: on to say that he has very like Korean views

473
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 3: and lives a very Korean lifestyle, and that when she's

474
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 3: with him, she somehow feels both less and more Korean,

475
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 3: which is something I'm interested in talking about further. And

476
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 3: then they also talk about their relationship, Nora and Arthur's relationship,

477
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 3: and you know, whether or not she's happy with the

478
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 3: life they've built together. And this is when Arthur's kind

479
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 3: of joking about a fictional version of this story where

480
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 3: you know, two childhood lovers reunite and run away together

481
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 3: after all these years and there's an evil white American

482
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 3: husband who's trying to stop them and all this stuff.

483
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 3: And Norah's like, that's not going to happen. I've built

484
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 3: my life here with you and I love you. And

485
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 3: he's like, okay, tight, tight, tight, And.

486
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: She also says, I'm not going to give up my play,

487
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: you know, rehearsal, Yeah, which I love because it's not like, oh,

488
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: I'm either with you or with him. No, it's I

489
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 1: have my own career and you know, I'm not giving

490
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: that up. That was actually I think the most important

491
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: point that she made.

492
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, she says something like I'm not gonna miss my

493
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 3: rehearsals for some dude, preferring to as like, you know,

494
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 3: long lost child love of hers as some dude, which

495
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 3: is pretty funny.

496
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 2: Well, I also like that Arthur is trying to play

497
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 2: off being insecure, but like he is so insecure that

498
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 2: he's not the key about her career and she has

499
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: to be like, well, hold on, you know, like love

500
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 2: you and everything, but like you're just saying, Nancy, like

501
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 2: you are not the only reason that my life is

502
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 2: here now, Like I've busted my ass to have my

503
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 2: life be here for a lot of reasons.

504
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 3: Yep. Okay. So the next day, Nora and he Sung

505
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 3: meet up again and it's his last day in New

506
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 3: York before he heads back to Soul and he meets

507
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 3: Arthur too. They go out for pasta and for drinks,

508
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 3: and then we reach that scene that's the opening scene

509
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 3: of the movie, where the three of them are together

510
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 3: and people are, you know, trying to guess their dynamic,

511
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 3: and the conversation is a little awkward because of this

512
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,719
Speaker 3: language barrier between Haysung and Arthur, Nora is having to

513
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 3: translate quite a bit, and then Haysung gets serious for

514
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 3: a moment and he tells Nora that seeing how much

515
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 3: she loves her husband, he didn't realize how much that

516
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 3: would hurt him. He also says he's having all these

517
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 3: thoughts of, oh, what if I did come to see

518
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 3: you twelve years ago in New York, or what if

519
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 3: you had never left Soul when you were a kid.

520
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 3: But they both acknowledge that what was supposed to happen happened,

521
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 3: though Nora does wonder if there was something in their

522
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 3: past lives that brought them back together in Yuan, of course,

523
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 3: and they talk about how in Yuan brought Nora and

524
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 3: Arthur together and how there's even in Yon between Arthur

525
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 3: and Haysong.

526
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: I love that.

527
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: M hm.

528
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: That was like my favorite, right that it's always I

529
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 1: think the love triangle is always represented so one dimensionally,

530
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 1: and here there is a connection, right, there is a

531
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: connection even between the two men.

532
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 3: Definitely. Yeah, what we're used to seeing is the not

533
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 3: to be bringing up Titanic again, but the Billy Zane

534
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 3: Leonardo DiCaprio of it all where they're both hero villain. Yeah,

535
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 3: so yeah, this was far more nuanced.

536
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: No one punching anybody here, No, no punching, no shooting,

537
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: no shipwreck, no.

538
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: But heartache, a lot of heartache, heartache. And I think

539
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: someone says that, you know, I didn't even hurt him

540
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: to even like Arthur, right that it's kind of like

541
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: because it's like, you want, you want the idea that oh,

542
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: she's married to with some terrible person, I'm gonna be

543
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 1: able to whisker her away, but instead, no, she's happy

544
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: with a really good guy. Yeah.

545
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And just the fact that Cilian Song clearly has

546
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 2: so much love for all three of these characters and

547
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 2: it takes the time to explore how they all feel

548
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 2: about each other. It's just it's so.

549
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 3: Rare, totally okay. So, as they're parting ways, Nora waits

550
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 3: with his song as he's waiting for his uber, and

551
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 3: they stare intently at each other, and then he says,

552
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 3: what if this is a past life two and we're

553
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 3: already something else to each other in our next life

554
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 3: And she's like, yeah, maybe, and he's like, well, see

555
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 3: you then, and then he gets in his uber and leaves,

556
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 3: and then Norah walks the few steps back home and

557
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 3: she's crying, and Arthur is there and he embraces her,

558
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 3: and we're crying. Everyone's crying. It's very emotional. And that's

559
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 3: the end of the movie. So let's take another quick

560
00:31:48,440 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 3: break and we will come back to discuss and we're back.

561
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: Nancy. I want to start with talking with you about

562
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 2: your connection to this movie and also just the process

563
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 2: of writing this beautiful piece.

564
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. So when I saw the movie that first time

565
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: I had during the pandemic thought about going back to Taiwan,

566
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, there's all this anti Asian hate.

567
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I didn't even choose to come here.

568
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: I was like, like Nora's character, you know, came as

569
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: a child. Although when I talked to Selene, she did

570
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: feel like she had a choice, right. I came when

571
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: I was younger, and I felt like, you know, my

572
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: parents just brought me. It was not my choice. I

573
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: left behind a lot of loved ones. No childhood, sweetheart,

574
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: but my grandparents who raised me, who were basically the

575
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: only people that I really loved because I didn't actually

576
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: know my parents. So slightly different immigration story than the movie,

577
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: but still a feeling of kind of longing for a

578
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: place that I had left. And at one point, I

579
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: think the first time she comes back from meeting Haysan's,

580
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: she says to Arthur that she was emotional. She's like,

581
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: I think I just missed Korea. And when she said that,

582
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: I was like, yes, I just missed Taiwan. I really

583
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: really missed Taiwan. And I actually went this past winter.

584
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: It had just opened up just recently, and I went

585
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: and I just felt this kind of longing that I

586
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: haven't felt actually so strongly. And I think the movie

587
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: really capture that that it's not just about relationships, but

588
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 1: it's a life that you might have had if you

589
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: hadn't left, right. And I think Korea and Taiwan these

590
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: are countries that are democracies where we're not fleeing war.

591
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: At least when I came, I wasn't fleeing poverty. So

592
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: it's like, why am I even here? Why, you know,

593
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: why can't I be somewhere where there's public health, you know,

594
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: there's health, health care for everybody around exactly so. But

595
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: when I talked to Seley, she was much more focused on,

596
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: you know, we are where we are meant to be, right,

597
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: And I think that the longing that is captured. It

598
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: really triggered stuff for me. But I think she was

599
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: she I mean, she's fine with audiences taking away whatever

600
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 1: they She just said that people asked her like or

601
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 1: to start to talk to her about exes and how

602
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: some people went back to exes and other people were

603
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: like appreciating what they had, so that people had all

604
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: sorts of relationship reactions, you know, because like you said,

605
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: it was very specific but super universal in the idea

606
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: of past loves. But for me, I definitely came to it,

607
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: and the interview really about centered on the immigration story

608
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: and Caitlin you had asked about how why you know

609
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,719
Speaker 1: she would feel simultaneously more and less Korean when she

610
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: was with Hayesung. When I went to Taiwan this past winter,

611
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: That's how I felt. I felt more Taiwanese but also

612
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 1: less right. So I realized the cultural differences. I realized

613
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: there were language I didn't know. But by the time

614
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: I was leaving after two weeks, I felt like, oh

615
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 1: I am I feel now more time whin needs, you know,

616
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: because I had connected with parts of my culture and

617
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: realized that I knew I understood it. More memories of

618
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: it coming back more than I would think of when

619
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 1: I'm here in the States. So it is this kind

620
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: of when you're in between, when you're a young immigrant,

621
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 1: you have dual identities that you know that are always

622
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 1: kind of shuffling back and forth, and I think that

623
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: the film really captures that both viscerally through you know,

624
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 1: a relationship, but also just her kind of reflection on it.

625
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's such a familiar experience and feeling

626
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 3: for a lot of immigrants, especially those who immigrated as

627
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 3: young people are also just children of immigrants who feel

628
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 3: they belong to two different places, but also in some

629
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 3: cases feel like they don't really belong to either place.

630
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 3: And you know, the feeling of not being able to

631
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 3: say a proper goodbye to the community and the place

632
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 3: you left behind, and the kind of wonder of what

633
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 3: would things have been if I had never left, and

634
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 3: all of these things that the movie I think handles

635
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 3: really thoughtfully and beautifully.

636
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, your piece is just the conversation is so beautiful,

637
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 2: and you both sort of make this connection that I

638
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 2: think I was so swept up in the emotion on

639
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 2: my first viewing, but watching it the second time, it's

640
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 2: like the inherent connection of hayesung to her home and

641
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 2: like how it is this deep emotional relationship, but also

642
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 2: he represents more than that, and like, how do you

643
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 2: navigate that sort of split and how do you navigate

644
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 2: like what you are understandably connecting to someone and then separating, Well,

645
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: who are they and who am I in relation to them?

646
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 2: And it's just it's beautiful. I feel like this movie

647
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 2: really rewards on rewatching absolutely and gives you another chance

648
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 2: to see Boner. It's the it's very temper of the book.

649
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 2: Thank you for saying that.

650
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 1: Selene talks about like their memories of each other who

651
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: they were as children was kind of frozen, right because

652
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: of the kind of very fast parting, And so when

653
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: they come together, you know physically, right, they see each

654
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,760
Speaker 1: other through Skype throughout the year, but this is twenty

655
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: seven years later, and that kind of connection because of

656
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 1: that memory of who they were, and then and then

657
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: the kind of shock at oh you are different, right,

658
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 1: He's so Korean, And it's like when I go to Taiwan,

659
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, they are culturally distinct, you know, from

660
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: from where I came from. And then wondering is that

661
00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 1: connection still there? Is that possible because there is this

662
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: this golf because you know, I've been raised in another

663
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: culture and yet this longing for that and memory that

664
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: I once was here. So it's this it's so complicated,

665
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: and then and it's wrapped up in one's identity, right,

666
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: and then you're kind of like you're searching within yourself.

667
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: So so many layers of emotions that come up for

668
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: this kind of immigration love.

669
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 3: Story totally, and Jamie to speak to your point about

670
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 3: the sort of like universality of it, even for people

671
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 3: who aren't like separated by a cultural difference. Even if

672
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 3: you just like reconnect with someone from your childhood who

673
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 3: you were once very close with, but then you're separated

674
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 3: by you know, twenty or so years of not having

675
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 3: spoken and not keeping up to date with the other person.

676
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 3: This has happened to me where like I've reconnected with

677
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 3: high school friends many years later and then I'm like, oh,

678
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,879
Speaker 3: we don't. It's kind of weird, isn't it is. We're

679
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 3: very different people now and we don't have that much

680
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 3: in common anymore and that much to talk about. Not

681
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 3: that that's necessarily what's happening exactly with Nora and Haysong,

682
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 3: but you get like kind of glimpses of that where

683
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 3: there are these cultural differences or just like personality differences.

684
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just change as you get older, Like I

685
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 2: think about yeah, like questioning and I thought this before,

686
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 2: and just reconnecting with someone from the past, like does

687
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 2: it make sense for me to be in this person's

688
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 2: life or do we just miss who we were when

689
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,399
Speaker 2: we knew each other and or like where we were

690
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 2: when we knew each other. And it's like a kind

691
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,959
Speaker 2: of a painful question because sometimes the answer is like, yeah,

692
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 2: maybe our time in each other's lives, like it might

693
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 2: not make any sense anymore. And it's nice to reconnect,

694
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 2: but like and I think, especially when it's like a

695
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 2: romantic connection, it's even harder to parse out because you're

696
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: a horny and so that's challenging.

697
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,919
Speaker 4: But to be like, you know, you can see even

698
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 4: though at no point in the movie was I thinking

699
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 4: like Nora is going to leave with Hayesung, there are

700
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 4: moments that you can or at least maybe I'm projecting

701
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 4: a dart, but you can see her trying to like

702
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 4: game out like well, what does that look like a

703
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 4: year from now?

704
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 2: Like how would it actually work? And that's like a

705
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 2: necessary but like painful thing to watch a character navigate

706
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 2: on both ends.

707
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 3: There's another piece I found about this movie that I

708
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 3: also thought was great. It's by Sylvia Jiholi, published in

709
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 3: Little White Lies. It's entitled Past Lives finally pushes the

710
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 3: Asian American diaspora genre into the present. And I want

711
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 3: to kind of like half quote half paraphrase this, but

712
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 3: it opens with quote. It's no secret that Hollywood loves

713
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 3: the formula. When Asianama American stories proved marketable to Western

714
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 3: audiences in the nineties with Wayne Wang's Joylot Club and

715
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 3: Angli's Father Knows Best trilogy, a new cliche similarly arose

716
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 3: to counterbalance its unconventional subject, Asian Americans as walking oxymorons,

717
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 3: the only identity in the world to be labeled with

718
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 3: the ethnicities they weren't enough of. A classic protagonist symbolized

719
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 3: the split between East and West, someone who was too

720
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 3: Asian to fully fit in with work colleagues, but to

721
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: American to adopt their parents' values as gospel. The resulting

722
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 3: conflict was one that inherently viewed the motherland as an

723
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 3: impediment to true assimilation, implying a life perpetually lived in

724
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 3: service to either Asian approval or white validation. These films

725
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 3: potentially resonated with an earlier generation whose immigration was inherently

726
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 3: predicated on conforming to white but is no longer the

727
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 3: case for someone like me who came of age in

728
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 3: the same country with little care for that sort of acceptance.

729
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 3: A modern approach to Asian diasporic diasporic Which way do

730
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 3: you say that diasporic filmmaking should push self definition beyond

731
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 3: this binary something I see in Saline Songs Past Lives unquote.

732
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 3: I know that was a long excerpt from that, but yeah,

733
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 3: the piece goes on to examine the kind of emotions

734
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:41,280
Speaker 3: and nuances that surround the act of leaving your home country,

735
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 3: of assimilating into a new culture and mindset, of missing

736
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 3: your home, and how a person's feelings toward those things

737
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 3: evolve as you mature. And yeah, I just thought this

738
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 3: was like such a great piece that touches on so

739
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 3: much of what the is doing.

740
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, there isn't kind of a East versus West. There

741
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: isn't actually even much talk about that so much in

742
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: that Oh my gosh, even though she says, you know,

743
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: I think I missed Korea. It's not you don't hit

744
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 1: over the head with the immigrant story. You see her

745
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: as a young immigrant. You see where she's at, and

746
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: you see how you know, she and both Hayes wonder

747
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: about what their lives could have been she if she

748
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: hadn't immigrated. But it's really centered on the relationship, right,

749
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,359
Speaker 1: and it's not about like you see her parents too,

750
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:39,040
Speaker 1: but her parents are not tortured in any way, and

751
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 1: that her parents, I mean her parents who are artists.

752
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: She's an artist those that's kind of anti stereotype already,

753
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: because I think there's a lot of one singular representation

754
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: of immigrants, even though a lot of immigrants from East

755
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: Asia are coming from you know, actually because of the laws,

756
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 1: they had to be highly educated because those were the

757
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 1: ones that were they you know, the United States was

758
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: letting in posting and that their artists, which is not

759
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: something I think that Asian Americans are typically portrayed as,

760
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: especially in the immigrant generation, and that they didn't leave

761
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 1: because of a push factor, but they just wanted to

762
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: try something new. That's very universal, right, It's like just

763
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: people moving through their lives and making choices. And I

764
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 1: think that that is true because I think about I

765
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: think my parents just wanted to come here because that

766
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: was the thing to do for educated Taiwanese Americans. It

767
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: wasn't like they didn't have jobs back at home. They

768
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: just wanted to do. They wanted to be like overachievers

769
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 1: and do what everybody and it was a trend or something,

770
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: you know. It was just if you could do it,

771
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,839
Speaker 1: you do it. And none of them said that they

772
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 1: came here to make a better life for me. That's

773
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 1: not like like those stories and those tropes never resonated

774
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: with me. I mean, I grew up kind of dysfunctionally too,

775
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,880
Speaker 1: so I never think of like I owe my parents

776
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 1: or anything like that. And that wasn't represented in this

777
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: story either, Right. Her mom and her just had a

778
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: great relationship. They talked about you know, I just talked

779
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: and they visited and it wasn't it wasn't a big deal.

780
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: And I think that it is a very modern representation.

781
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 1: There's no tension between that and there isn't any kind

782
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: of white worshiping in this sense because she's literally sitting

783
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 1: between these two people that she is you know that

784
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: she has loved and now she loves and it's just life.

785
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, Yeah, so many tropes subverted in this movie,

786
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:27,960
Speaker 3: and again it's so refreshing.

787
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's just like effortless to what the story is.

788
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 2: Where I like that, I don't know. I feel like

789
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 2: often in stories, I'm like, I want to see this

790
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 2: character's dynamic with their family more, which I wouldn't have

791
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 2: disliked it in this story, but it felt like where

792
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 2: this story lies is so confidently with these three characters,

793
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 2: and more specifically these two characters, and I really appreciate how.

794
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 2: And it also is like it doesn't work if Celia's

795
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:03,280
Speaker 2: song isn't an amazing writer, which she is, and there's

796
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 2: no I feel like there's a lot of writing that

797
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 2: self consciously kind of over explains, like what happened in

798
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 2: the interceding twelve years, but you're just showing it and

799
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 2: you know you don't know everything, but you know enough

800
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 2: to be deeply invested in what's going on with these characters,

801
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 2: because it wasn't I don't think until my second or

802
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 2: third viewing where I was like, I wonder.

803
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: What are sister's up to?

804
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 2: But like it's are the story is so book?

805
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: Where's Michelle? Where's Michelle?

806
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I want, And I mean, instead of Boner,

807
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 2: is what's Michelle up to? But in a lesser movie

808
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 2: that would have pinged for me. But it's like this

809
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 2: movie is just completely we are with Nora, and I

810
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:52,240
Speaker 2: really really love.

811
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 3: That same And like we've mentioned, the movie cares enough

812
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 3: about the other characters besides Nora to really kind of

813
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 3: fully explore their emotions as they relate to the events

814
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 3: of the story in a way that I thought was

815
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 3: also interesting, because you know, a big component of this

816
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 3: movie is examining how Nora feels about her circumstances, but

817
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 3: there's also a decent emphasis on the men's feelings. And

818
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 3: not to talk about men on the Bechdel cast, but

819
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 3: these are two men who I think are i would say,

820
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 3: more emotionally intelligent and expressive than a typical Hollywood movie

821
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,840
Speaker 3: male character, and I really appreciated that. I was so

822
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 3: blown away by the scene where Nora and her husband

823
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 3: Arthur are having a conversation where she has just come

824
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 3: from her first day of hanging out with Heysong and

825
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 3: Arthur says is he attractive? And she's like, yeah, I

826
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 3: think so, and then he's like, well, are you attracted

827
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 3: to him, and then she like pauses to ponder this

828
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 3: and then says, I don't think so. It's just that

829
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:16,319
Speaker 3: he was, you know, a memory from my childhood, and

830
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 3: then he was an image on my laptop and now

831
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 3: he's a physical person and that's very intense. But I

832
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 3: don't think it's attraction. And you can tell that Arthur

833
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 3: isn't necessarily like thrilled about this situation, and he seems

834
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 3: insecure about it. But I also feel like he's handling

835
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 3: it fairly maturely. He doesn't fly into a jealous rage,

836
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 3: which is what I'm accustomed to seeing in real life

837
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 3: and in movies, which is really more of an indication

838
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 3: of the low bar for men's behavior than it is

839
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 3: for anything else.

840
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 2: But right, because he's not perfect either, and I think

841
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 2: that that's equally important. You can tell he's insecure, you

842
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,240
Speaker 2: can tell when he feels awkward and out of place,

843
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 2: and even at some point times I think annoyed. I'm

844
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,240
Speaker 2: sure every viewer feels a little different about his reactions,

845
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 2: and I kind of felt different from viewing to viewing,

846
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 2: where sometimes I'm like, ah, that I get Wyatt, and

847
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 2: the other times I'm just like, let them have their

848
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 2: moment get.

849
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 3: Out leave, yeah, get out of the way. But all

850
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 3: this to say that I felt like that conversation between

851
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 3: the two of them was one of the most honest

852
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 3: and mature conversations I've seen on screen between a married couple.

853
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 3: Kind of Ever, like characters are never that honest and

854
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 3: open with each other about because you would normally see, oh,

855
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 3: are you attracted to him? Of course not. No, I

856
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 3: only have eyes for you, baby, You're the only person

857
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 3: I've ever been attracted to, and blah blah blah. And

858
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,399
Speaker 3: it's just like, that's not real life. Conversations like that

859
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 3: might happen, but it's between people who aren't mature enough

860
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 3: to be open and honest with each other and to

861
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 3: accept other people's honesty. I was like blown away by

862
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 3: how profoundly honest and open it was. I loved it.

863
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was real if for people who have

864
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: healthy long term relationships, right, it's I definitely. I actually

865
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: with my partner, my husband, and we've been married many,

866
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: many years, over two decades, and thank you, and I

867
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: have actually had a very similar conversation like they did.

868
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: And because if it's based on mutual respect, you don't

869
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: want to accuse someone you know, ye, you've known forever,

870
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 1: but you want to ask those questions just to make

871
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: sure because of that, you know, that tiny bit of doubt,

872
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: and also making sure things are appropriate, right, but that's

873
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 1: negotiable as well, right if you trust each other. And

874
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: I think that it is realistic, and I'm sure it's

875
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: probably based on what happened right in her in her

876
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: real life. And that's and I think that's the beauty

877
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:53,359
Speaker 1: of this film. It resonates so much because I think

878
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,959
Speaker 1: it is rooted in reality rather than, like you said,

879
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 1: these Hollywood tropes. But you know what's really interesting is

880
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: that at the very very end, you know how Arthur

881
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: waits for Nora. I was talking to someone and they said, oh,

882
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,399
Speaker 1: it's because he didn't trust her, and I was like, oh,

883
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: that's not how I read it at all. I thought

884
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: he was waiting for her because he knew she would

885
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: be emotional and would need support. But this is the

886
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:18,800
Speaker 1: whole Jamie, what you were saying that you know, a

887
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 1: lot is left unsead. So you know, this person I

888
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: was talking to know had a totally different interpretation of that,

889
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 1: because you don't even hear them say anything. You just

890
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,760
Speaker 1: hear it. You just see him holding her as she's

891
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,400
Speaker 1: you know, bawling at the end, and it's like I

892
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: thought he was standing for all of us who are bolling,

893
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 1: Like I need that hung too, Arthur, because this lovely

894
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: man just left and I don't know what to do.

895
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,560
Speaker 1: And so yeah, so I think this, I don't know

896
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 1: people's expectations of what, Yeah, the jealous husband is supposed

897
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: to look like.

898
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 3: Totally yeah. And he describes it in this like fictional

899
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,800
Speaker 3: Hollywood version of the story that could play it out

900
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,439
Speaker 3: in a very Hollywood way where it's, you know, two

901
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 3: people reconnect after a long time and discover their love

902
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,760
Speaker 3: for each other again and the woman leaves her evil

903
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 3: husband to be with her childhoods sweetheart and that's like

904
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 3: again the very like fantasy Hollywood version of that story.

905
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 3: And he's like joking about it because like this movie

906
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:24,879
Speaker 3: is the antithesis of like a typical Hollywood narrative like that.

907
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 3: And again, like.

908
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 2: Selin Song finds these really funny visuals that she doesn't

909
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 2: call out, but like the scene where Nora comes home

910
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 2: and she's had one of the most emotionally challenging days

911
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 2: of her life, reconnecting with Haysong and her husband is

912
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,800
Speaker 2: gaming and you're just like, oh my god.

913
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 3: He's playing Call of Booty or something.

914
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 2: Right, and you're just like that he's trying to distract himself.

915
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: I was thinking, you know, he really needed because he's

916
00:52:55,640 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 1: like thinking about, you know, his wife out. Yeah, exactly,

917
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: so he has to game in order to like distract himself.

918
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: That I thought that was my interpretation of that. Yeah, totally. Again,

919
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:08,359
Speaker 1: it's just like.

920
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 2: Showing, not telling of like, Okay, they are both having

921
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 2: a day. And also it's just like kind of this

922
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 2: domestic scene and getting back to what you were talking about, Nancy,

923
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 2: about their relationship. There were moments in and yeah, I think,

924
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 2: you know, there's like an understandable tendency to project your

925
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,760
Speaker 2: own relationship history onto this movie. But I really appreciated

926
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 2: that they had enough mutual respect that when he asked

927
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 2: her challenging questions, where it probably would have been more

928
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 2: calming or and more soothing to hear the like, no,

929
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 2: it's nothing, I feel nothing, like Nora is like I

930
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 2: don't know, like I'm trying to figure out how I

931
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 2: feel about it. I'm not sure, and like doesn't give

932
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 2: the reflexive comfort that I think in a lot of

933
00:53:57,080 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 2: hetero relationships, women are conditioned to give men of just

934
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:04,040
Speaker 2: and that does go both ways, but I think more

935
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 2: so in that direction of like well, no, of course,

936
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,240
Speaker 2: and like rest assured blah blah blah. And but instead

937
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,320
Speaker 2: this is like a true partnership that is going to

938
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 2: have to weather some challenging shit, and that he is

939
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 2: considerate enough of her to know that, like he can't

940
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 2: understand the set of emotions she's navigating, and what his

941
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,920
Speaker 2: job is is to be present for her in the

942
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:34,359
Speaker 2: way that she needs. And that's like his test here,

943
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 2: and I think he does his best. I don't know,

944
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:38,720
Speaker 2: and I agree with your read at the end, Nancy

945
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,280
Speaker 2: that it's just like I'm sure he was a little anxious,

946
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:43,760
Speaker 2: but it's also like, I mean, if there's any time

947
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 2: you're gonna need a hug, that's the time.

948
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 3: That's it.

949
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

950
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. And when he's sitting next to her on the bar,

951
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 1: just kind of sitting and letting the two of them

952
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: talk bout in of itself, I thought was a was

953
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 1: really showing his support.

954
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 3: For sure. So many straight white men would do whatever

955
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 3: they could to try to insert themselves into that situation

956
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,359
Speaker 3: and just like be obnoxious about it, but he's like.

957
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 2: He's sitting there thinking about the plot of Boner two.

958
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: Laying his gaming.

959
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 2: Call of Duty highlights, just playing passively in his mind

960
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 2: or touches like lot. Even though they, like all three

961
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 2: of them, are in not easily navigated situation, it's weirdly soothing,

962
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 2: I think, to see characters in a movie and just

963
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 2: know that you're like, everyone is doing their best. Everyone's

964
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 2: doing their best, and it's nice even though it's like

965
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 2: it's an impossible thing to do perfectly, because there's no

966
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:53,120
Speaker 2: such thing as a perfect way for this scenario to go.

967
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 2: But everyone's doing their best, and that made me feel

968
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 2: even though it's a difficult watch if you're not emotionally

969
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 2: prepared for it, it is nice to feel like, well,

970
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:08,439
Speaker 2: these three characters did their absolute best to get through

971
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 2: it with respect for themselves and for the other people,

972
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 2: which is just kind of a rare thing to.

973
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 3: See totally, because with his song, he is a character

974
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 3: who even from childhood, he is sensitive, he's easily emotionally affected,

975
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 3: but you also see him like maturing over the years

976
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:36,840
Speaker 3: as far as like how he processes and expresses his emotions,

977
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,799
Speaker 3: and I'm not saying he's necessarily like a beacon of

978
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 3: emotional intelligence.

979
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:42,719
Speaker 2: But what man is?

980
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 3: What man is? Number one? Number two, We are so

981
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 3: used to seeing men on screen who are extremely emotionally repressed,

982
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,839
Speaker 3: and that doesn't come from nothing. Obviously, there's a real

983
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 3: life precedent for that. Or we see a man who's

984
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 3: you know, made emotion that they express is aggression. But

985
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 3: we see this character who is far more sensitive than

986
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 3: you know, your typical male movie character, where when he's

987
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 3: learning that Nyong is moving away, he's visibly upset by it.

988
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,080
Speaker 3: He's like trying his best to comfort her in different

989
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 3: situations and be supportive, but he's also twelve and he

990
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 3: doesn't really know how to navigate that. And then when

991
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 3: he's in his twenties, there's a scene where he's out

992
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 3: drinking with his friends and one of them is upset

993
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 3: because he's just broken up with his girlfriend, and I

994
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 3: Sung embraces him and he's like, let it out, buddy,

995
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 3: It's okay to cry, and I'm like, that's such a

996
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 3: nice thing to see. And then different times he tells

997
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 3: Nora like, it wasn't a joke for me to look

998
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 3: for you. I actually missed you. And I tried really hard.

999
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:00,000
Speaker 3: And when she tells him she wants to stop speaking

1000
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 3: for a while, he starts like softly crying, and then

1001
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 3: he goes, why am I like this? Because he's, you know,

1002
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 3: a man navigating having emotions in a patriarchal world which

1003
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:15,320
Speaker 3: encourages men to not express their emotions, and so you know,

1004
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 3: I understand his reaction, but you know, he's like openly upset,

1005
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:23,160
Speaker 3: but also respecting her boundaries, which is a thing we

1006
00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 3: also never see men doing. Yes, And then finally, you know,

1007
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 3: when they reunite in their thirties, I think they must

1008
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 3: be like thirty six. He is talking about, you know,

1009
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 3: how sad he was when she abruptly left, and how

1010
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 3: he didn't know it would be this hard to see

1011
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 3: how much she likes her husband, But he's also acknowledging that, like,

1012
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 3: this is where you're supposed to be, Nora like, and

1013
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 3: I feel like he's implying that any hope he has

1014
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 3: of them being together or winding up together, he knows

1015
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:02,760
Speaker 3: is unrealistic. And again, that's such a mature way to

1016
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 3: handle that whole situation, And it was really encouraging for

1017
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,760
Speaker 3: me to see these two different characters who are men

1018
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 3: handling these complicated situations with the level of maturity and

1019
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 3: emotional intelligence that they display.

1020
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:25,640
Speaker 1: So no red flags. There's just two green flag men I.

1021
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 2: Know, which is like God. Then it becomes like a

1022
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 2: fantasy genre when in my life has there been two

1023
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,000
Speaker 2: good options interesting?

1024
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 3: Usually there are zero.

1025
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: Yes, no.

1026
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 2: But I really appreciate like, even though Hey, Sung, I

1027
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 2: think like says much less because we're navigating Nora's relationships centrally.

1028
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 2: It's interesting on the rewatch when you sort of stop,

1029
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 2: can remove yourself from the like pie and wanting these

1030
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 2: two characters to be together and like, you can see

1031
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 2: it a little more clearly of how the types of

1032
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 2: attachments they have to each other. Where it seems like

1033
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 2: for Nora, Hayesung is representative of both her childhood and

1034
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 2: her home, and in the reverse, Nora seems to represent

1035
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 2: sort of this I don't know, I mean because I

1036
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 2: feel like I've had versions of this experience of someone

1037
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 2: who exists in your brain only as a kid, and

1038
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 2: there's all of this potential for yourself that you attached

1039
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 2: to people that you knew when you were younger. And

1040
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 2: because we know that he doesn't seem quite as sure

1041
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 2: of his professional path as Nora does. He feels like,

1042
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 2: I mean, he's doing well, but there are insecurities he

1043
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 2: feels about his income, about his career. It seems like

1044
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 2: in the professional sense he feels a little more untethered

1045
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 2: than Nora does, who is very confident and passionate that

1046
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 2: this is she's doing the right thing. And again, it's

1047
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 2: just like the writing in this movie is fucking incredible

1048
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 2: because it's never stated, but you can.

1049
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1050
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 2: The more I watched it, the more it was like, Oh,

1051
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 2: there's like a part of him that is like when

1052
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 2: I was close with her when I was a child,

1053
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 2: I had all of this potential and none of this uncertainty,

1054
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:25,000
Speaker 2: and it's like a longing to reconnect with that too.

1055
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 2: Or I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it, but I

1056
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 2: was like, I've definitely thought.

1057
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 1: That I totally agree because I think that he says

1058
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 1: that he keeps track of her prizes that she wants

1059
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 1: to win. Right, you know, what's what's the prize you

1060
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 1: want now, Pulitzer, A you know, a whatever whatever? Then yes, yes, exactly,

1061
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: And it's I feel like he was living a little

1062
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 1: bit vicariously through her and maybe she represents something aspirational,

1063
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: and he does ask would I have looked for you

1064
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 1: if you hadn't left? Like, would he feel the same way.

1065
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 1: It's like she presents something that, yeah, like a unfulfilled

1066
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:09,840
Speaker 1: aspiration life that he might have had. And that is

1067
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 1: so universal, right, it's kind of like, you know, unfulfilled wishes.

1068
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,840
Speaker 1: So I love that, Jamie, because I think I see

1069
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 1: that now. I didn't think about his his I think

1070
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 1: I just saw everything from you know, Nora's perspective and

1071
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 1: really centered on her, which is great because we don't

1072
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 1: even have enough films or we could do that. Yeah,

1073
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 1: and so why not? So do I even care about

1074
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:33,520
Speaker 1: why he likes her and why why her husband is

1075
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:37,720
Speaker 1: you know, playing games is still there. I didn't even

1076
01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 1: care about his book. That's how little like about their perspectives.

1077
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 1: I didn't even see the boner, didn't.

1078
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 2: Fare We're weird for noticing.

1079
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 1: No, no, no, you know it's it was because I

1080
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 1: really was just I was able to see myself, I think,

1081
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,720
Speaker 1: in Naura and and that's so rare, and to be

1082
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 1: able to kind of just fully love that part was

1083
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: just exciting.

1084
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1085
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel like it just like speaks to

1086
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 2: how strong this movie is. That you can look almost

1087
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 2: anywhere in terms of like what character you're giving deference to,

1088
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:16,920
Speaker 2: and you're viewing where you're like and it's like a

1089
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 2: rewarding and like heart wrenching experience no matter where you're looking.

1090
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 2: And I cannot wait for Selene Sung to make a

1091
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 2: million movies, as many movies as she wants. This is

1092
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 2: just a fun fact I did not know about her

1093
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 2: because I didn't know much about her before this movie

1094
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:37,120
Speaker 2: came out. That she I mean, because this is sort

1095
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 2: of an auto fiction kind of screenplay. She is a playwright,

1096
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:46,880
Speaker 2: but that during Lockdown she directed a live production of

1097
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 2: Chekhov's The Seagull using the SIMS four on Twitch And

1098
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 2: I just think that's one of the best sentences I've

1099
01:03:55,320 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 2: ever read. And so few people manage should do something

1100
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 2: artistically fun and interesting during lockdown, and I was like, Wow,

1101
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 2: she really is the goat. How does the brain think

1102
01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 2: of that perfect idea?

1103
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:16,160
Speaker 3: Tell me about it. I just have a couple stray observations,

1104
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:21,120
Speaker 3: which the first one being I appreciated seeing a married

1105
01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:25,320
Speaker 3: couple who are in their mid thirties who don't have kids,

1106
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 3: and there's no mention of them trying to have kids. Obviously,

1107
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 3: I'm not sure what this fictional couple's future holds. Maybe

1108
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 3: they'll have kids down the road. But as a child

1109
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 3: free by choice adult myself, I appreciate seeing on screen

1110
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 3: representation of other child free adults who are close to

1111
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 3: my age. So stray observation number one. Another thing I

1112
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 3: would say, like, maybe my only note for this movie

1113
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 3: is that Nora and Haisan calling each other something in

1114
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 3: Korean that translates to a pretty ablest word in English.

1115
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 3: I don't know if it has the same ablest connotation

1116
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 3: in Korean, but I guess just a reminder that, you know,

1117
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 3: we on the podcast encourage people to be mindful of

1118
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 3: the language they use, and even if it is in

1119
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:25,680
Speaker 3: a joking context, to be aware of anything that has

1120
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 3: ablest under or overtones. So that's my little speech about that.

1121
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 3: And then the third and final thing I have for

1122
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 3: this movie is this Onions have layers.

1123
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 2: I knew that's just gonna happen.

1124
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 3: And Indians have layers.

1125
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 2: I knew it. As like I didn't want to do

1126
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:49,480
Speaker 2: it at the beginning, but I'm like Caitlin, I trust

1127
01:05:49,600 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 2: I'd see this speaks to our Inian and our deep

1128
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 2: connection that I knew you were going to bring it

1129
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 2: to Shrek and it was really just a matter of time.

1130
01:05:58,400 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 3: It was a matter of time, and I saved it

1131
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:03,480
Speaker 3: for the end. And yes, you're welcome everybody.

1132
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 1: Were we actually going to talk about whether it passes

1133
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 1: the Buchdel test?

1134
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 3: Yes, we can do that now, unless you have anything

1135
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 3: else you'd like to say about the movie before we

1136
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 3: start to wrap up.

1137
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: Oh gosh. I thought that it deserved Best Picture. I

1138
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:21,760
Speaker 1: knew it wouldn't because of the momentum, but instead they

1139
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 1: rewarded a film about men behaving really.

1140
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:27,920
Speaker 2: Badly to say the least.

1141
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Toddler esque backstabbing. And I thought, because there

1142
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:37,840
Speaker 1: were a lot of talk about why maybe Past Lives

1143
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 1: was going to be looked over because it had no

1144
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 1: real conflict and no real toxicity. And I thought, and

1145
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:47,720
Speaker 1: then that's when it made me realize, Wow, Appenheimer is

1146
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 1: all about toxicity, right that to me, the whole relationships

1147
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 1: between all the men were how they were going to

1148
01:06:54,560 --> 01:06:57,120
Speaker 1: screw each other over. And I realized that that's not

1149
01:06:57,200 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 1: a movie for me. That's not a movie that I'm

1150
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 1: attracted to. I don't like that watching that it doesn't

1151
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 1: give me any pleasure and it doesn't make society a

1152
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 1: better place. So I really felt that that contrast between

1153
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 1: exactly what we're talking about today, that kind of emotional

1154
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:15,560
Speaker 1: maturity of the men and just relationships in general, and

1155
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 1: the objuctification of course of women you know, in that movie,

1156
01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 1: and I just thought, Wow, we're not going to give

1157
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 1: it to the healthy, wonderful representation that actually can you know,

1158
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 1: elevate our world. But anyway, that was that was my

1159
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 1: thought about the Awards season. Yeah, it did win Best

1160
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:36,080
Speaker 1: Independent Film though.

1161
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:39,160
Speaker 2: Award, So yes, I was like, they would never let

1162
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 2: two good movies win in a row. And so because

1163
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 2: everything everywhere, all at once won Best Picture in twenty

1164
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 2: twenty three, I'm like, whatever win's in twenty twenty.

1165
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 1: Four, it's not going to be for me.

1166
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 2: That was my prediction. And you know, the Oscars are dogshit.

1167
01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 2: But yeah, in terms of of the Bexel test, I

1168
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 2: believe it.

1169
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 3: Is a pass.

1170
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: Yes, it passes.

1171
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:04,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1172
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1173
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:10,640
Speaker 3: Nora talks to her mom about you know, her English

1174
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:14,520
Speaker 3: name that she chooses. They also talk later when Nora

1175
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:18,679
Speaker 3: is in her twenties, and the conversation does quickly turn

1176
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:21,040
Speaker 3: to like, oh, let me look up this boy I

1177
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:23,720
Speaker 3: had a crush on. So you know, it's not necessarily

1178
01:08:24,120 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 3: a movie that passes constantly or consistently. It's pretty fleeting moments.

1179
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:32,519
Speaker 3: But also, like again, as we always talk about, a

1180
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 3: movie can like not pass the Bechdel Test or barely pass,

1181
01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:42,799
Speaker 3: and it can still be a poignant, thoughtful feminist movie

1182
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:45,760
Speaker 3: with good representation, right, And many movies that do pass

1183
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 3: the Bechdel Test can still be problematic pieces of shit.

1184
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:52,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, like kind of due by accident are like

1185
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 2: not thoughtfully Yeah, I mean there's nothing more. I feel

1186
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 2: like we have to say this every so often just

1187
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,599
Speaker 2: to remind people because I will never forget over the

1188
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 2: like whatever dust up on Twitter where people were like

1189
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:08,480
Speaker 2: Fire Island doesn't pass the Bechdel Test, and you're like, god,

1190
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:15,640
Speaker 2: oh my god, Like it is not the law, but spiritually,

1191
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:18,000
Speaker 2: I sometimes I'm just like the Bechdel test is a

1192
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:21,959
Speaker 2: more of a vibe check, which this movie passes handily

1193
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 2: because yeah, you get the technical past when Nora talks

1194
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 2: with her mom. But also this is a movie that

1195
01:09:28,680 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 2: is written and directed by a woman, that centers on

1196
01:09:32,320 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 2: a woman's experiences, thoughts, feelings, relationships. Yeah, no, notes.

1197
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 1: There's also there's a beautiful scene on the airplane between

1198
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 1: Nyong and her sister. That's right, and they are speaking

1199
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 1: in English with each other, how are you? I am fine?

1200
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:54,760
Speaker 1: And you and you and you. I feel like that

1201
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 1: scene in of itself should be embodying the Bechdel Test

1202
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:04,240
Speaker 1: in that because that scene represents their relationship. Also this

1203
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 1: huge transition that they're going to make between you know,

1204
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 1: immigrating from Korea to America, and the kind of humor,

1205
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 1: but also yeah, just kids trying to make light of

1206
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 1: something that is gonna it's like a huge thing that's

1207
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:20,679
Speaker 1: going to change their lives forever. Right, So I thought

1208
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:23,800
Speaker 1: she really is an amazing writer because, yeah, that one

1209
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:27,760
Speaker 1: little scene of them practicing English and laughing about the

1210
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:30,479
Speaker 1: kind of I don't know, I think anyone who's taken

1211
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:33,880
Speaker 1: any kind of language course can really relate where you

1212
01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:36,519
Speaker 1: kind of are silly on a very basic level with

1213
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:39,360
Speaker 1: a new language. And it's a way to kind of

1214
01:10:39,360 --> 01:10:42,679
Speaker 1: assuage the anxiety you may have about, you know, having

1215
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 1: to try something new and communicate with people that you

1216
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 1: know how you're gonna barely be able to communicate with,

1217
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 1: and the safety of doing that with a sister. Really,

1218
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:56,200
Speaker 1: I think captures all of that so beautifully. So that

1219
01:10:56,400 --> 01:10:59,840
Speaker 1: scene no boys, no men, no one, you know, and

1220
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:01,880
Speaker 1: then it's not you're gonna get a transition to that.

1221
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:03,840
Speaker 1: It's really just about the two of them. I thought

1222
01:11:03,880 --> 01:11:06,479
Speaker 1: that was a really beautiful, beautiful scene.

1223
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:09,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, thank you for reminding me of that. I

1224
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 3: almost forgot about that scene, but it's so adorable.

1225
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:14,559
Speaker 2: It's so tender. The last thing I wanted to shout

1226
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 2: out with this movie is because I feel like sometimes

1227
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:19,800
Speaker 2: we kind of forget to shout out the crew, and

1228
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 2: Cillian Song worked with an incredibly diverse crew in terms

1229
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:25,680
Speaker 2: of gender, in terms of race. I mean, it's just

1230
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 2: like it really seems like it was and just based

1231
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 2: on what I read and saw about behind the scenes,

1232
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:36,680
Speaker 2: just like a really beautiful group effort. And also for

1233
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:39,760
Speaker 2: all my twenty twelve heads out there, if you were

1234
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:44,000
Speaker 2: a fan of the band Grizzly Bear, which I was

1235
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:46,200
Speaker 2: when I was in college, they did the score for

1236
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:50,120
Speaker 2: this movie, So yeah, that's the shout out for my

1237
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 2: college radio heads.

1238
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:54,719
Speaker 3: Very nice.

1239
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:58,160
Speaker 1: And I think the producer, the big producer, is the

1240
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 1: same producer that did Paris as well. Yes, so I

1241
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:06,360
Speaker 1: thought that was amazing, Like, oh wow, Parasite and Past Lives,

1242
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:09,720
Speaker 1: it's kind of very different movies. Yeah, but it's like

1243
01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 1: that woman can really spot them, you know, in terms

1244
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:14,479
Speaker 1: of great, great films.

1245
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:15,479
Speaker 3: Totally.

1246
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 2: And then the cinematographer, I hope I'm getting his name

1247
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 2: right as Shabi or Kirchner, who most famously works with

1248
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:26,920
Speaker 2: Steve McQueen as well and almost exclusively in features. And

1249
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:28,640
Speaker 2: I want to chut this out because I feel like,

1250
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:31,880
Speaker 2: you know, he is a male cinematographer who almost exclusively

1251
01:12:32,200 --> 01:12:36,519
Speaker 2: works with women directors, which is again just a rare find.

1252
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 2: So a shout out to him for being able to

1253
01:12:41,160 --> 01:12:42,960
Speaker 2: work with women. Most men are bad at that.

1254
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:50,360
Speaker 3: Certainly. That brings us to our metric, the famous nipple scale,

1255
01:12:50,479 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 3: the most important metric of all time, a scale where

1256
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:57,880
Speaker 3: we rate the movie zero to five nipples based on

1257
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:02,400
Speaker 3: examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. And I'm going

1258
01:13:02,439 --> 01:13:05,400
Speaker 3: to give this movie the full five nipples. A rare

1259
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:10,800
Speaker 3: instance on the show, but this is a movie that

1260
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:16,120
Speaker 3: not only centers a woman, it centers a woman of color,

1261
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:21,320
Speaker 3: It centers an immigrant. It is written and directed by

1262
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 3: a woman who also has that exact experience and that

1263
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:30,559
Speaker 3: is why the movie is so well handled and thoughtfully done.

1264
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:36,439
Speaker 3: And yeah, I love just the exploration of Nora and

1265
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:42,360
Speaker 3: her journey with her experience as an immigrant, and also

1266
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:46,799
Speaker 3: the two men around her. Again not to be like, wow,

1267
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:51,160
Speaker 3: the male characters are awesome, but in this movie, like,

1268
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 3: they're really thoughtfully written and characterized in a way that

1269
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:57,720
Speaker 3: I found to be really refreshing. And I hope that

1270
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:01,559
Speaker 3: men see this movie and learn a thing or two

1271
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:04,719
Speaker 3: from it. So yeah, so much to like, so many

1272
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 3: things that were so well done about this movie. So

1273
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:10,639
Speaker 3: I'm gonna give it five nipples, and I'm gonna give

1274
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:19,280
Speaker 3: them to Selene's Song and Greta Lee and also Nora's

1275
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 3: little sister Michelle.

1276
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:24,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going the full five two no reason not

1277
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 2: to write whatever pleasure to get to say that. No,

1278
01:14:28,280 --> 01:14:30,760
Speaker 2: it's this movie. I mean, we've talked it out, but

1279
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 2: just it is so beautiful. It just made me so

1280
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:36,640
Speaker 2: excited to see more of Celene Song's work and to

1281
01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 2: see someone just like put a thoughtful, effortless story on screen.

1282
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:47,559
Speaker 2: The performances are wonderful, all the tactical elements are wonderful,

1283
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 2: but it doesn't work if Selene Song isn't an incredible

1284
01:14:50,920 --> 01:14:54,599
Speaker 2: and thoughtful filmmaker. And so that is why I'm giving

1285
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:58,479
Speaker 2: all five nipples to well, Okay, I'm gonna split in half.

1286
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 2: Half of them go to Cilli and Sog and the

1287
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 2: other half go to the seagull on the SIMS four.

1288
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:08,599
Speaker 3: Yes, of course, yes, Nancy, how about you.

1289
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:12,439
Speaker 1: I'm gonna also do five nipples and five boners for

1290
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 1: the for the good men that have shown us how

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01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:22,799
Speaker 1: men can support women in a way that is healthy

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01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 1: and certainly centered on her, and I appreciate that. I

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01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:29,719
Speaker 1: think that's why the the you know, we are drawn

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01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:33,040
Speaker 1: to these portraits of men because they are so supportive

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01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:35,599
Speaker 1: of her and they allow her to kind of have

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01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:41,640
Speaker 1: her full emotional journey and not getting her away. So

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01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:44,519
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's all we can ask of,

1298
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:48,559
Speaker 1: you know, our our friends and family members and loved ones,

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01:15:48,680 --> 01:15:52,080
Speaker 1: is to be supportive of our emotional journey. So absolutely,

1300
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:55,840
Speaker 1: so yeah, everything y'all said about the intersectional, it's in

1301
01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 1: an authentic way, in a way that is that feels real,

1302
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 1: that hasn't been seen before, that isn't white centered, that

1303
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:07,599
Speaker 1: isn't male centered. But it doesn't ignore them, right, it

1304
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:11,240
Speaker 1: doesn't try to preach anything. It is just by being

1305
01:16:11,320 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 1: real and centered on real, you know, emotionally pretty healthy

1306
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:21,959
Speaker 1: mature adults, it portrays something that is unfortunately lacking in cinema.

1307
01:16:22,120 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 1: So but at least it was nominated for Best Picture,

1308
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:30,040
Speaker 1: so I hope more people see it. I remember giving

1309
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 1: a talk at at Belmont University in Nashville and saying

1310
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:36,960
Speaker 1: that Past Lives was the best film that I had

1311
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:39,680
Speaker 1: seen that year, and then I said, who else, who

1312
01:16:39,680 --> 01:16:42,680
Speaker 1: else has seen this? And then a white man, a

1313
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:45,840
Speaker 1: white you know, student, raised his hand and I said,

1314
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:47,320
Speaker 1: what did you think of the film? He's like, I

1315
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:48,960
Speaker 1: thought it was the best film of the year. And

1316
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 1: I said, see, it's not just me an Asian woman

1317
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 1: that makes this. This white this fine white gentleman also

1318
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:58,160
Speaker 1: believes the same. So I love that right that we

1319
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:02,120
Speaker 1: shared the same opinion about this movie because it spoke

1320
01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 1: to us, and maybe for him, he's like, I want

1321
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 1: to see, you know, role models that I can relate to,

1322
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:09,439
Speaker 1: or men that cry because I cry, you know, whatever

1323
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:12,320
Speaker 1: it is that he related to, or maybe just good storytelling,

1324
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:15,240
Speaker 1: whatever it is, right, I think, Yeah, really great films

1325
01:17:15,240 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 1: can speak to everyone across different different groups, and hopefully again.

1326
01:17:20,479 --> 01:17:23,920
Speaker 1: Make our society, you know, better behaved and more supportive

1327
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:25,320
Speaker 1: of one another in a community.

1328
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:27,639
Speaker 3: We can only hope.

1329
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:30,439
Speaker 2: God, I mean this. I know we're wrapping up, but yeah,

1330
01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 2: you saying emotionally mature adults in a movie. I'm like, yeah,

1331
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:36,720
Speaker 2: that is another very rare thing, because there I mean,

1332
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:40,559
Speaker 2: I love messy characters. But yeah, so many movies are

1333
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:46,080
Speaker 2: adults behaving like children, and this is adult's mature adult

1334
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:51,920
Speaker 2: navigating messiness. Rare, a perfect movie. There you heard it.

1335
01:17:52,240 --> 01:17:55,040
Speaker 2: Everyone gave Past Lives five nipples. It's a perfect movie.

1336
01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:58,640
Speaker 2: If you haven't seen it, you have to. If you

1337
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:01,759
Speaker 2: have seen it, turn this off and go watch it again.

1338
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:05,840
Speaker 3: Yes, but before you do that, Nancy, thank you so

1339
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:08,320
Speaker 3: much for joining us for this wonderful discussion.

1340
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:09,599
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you so much.

1341
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 3: Come back anytime. And where can people find your work

1342
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:19,519
Speaker 3: you're writing? Follow you on any social media, plug anything

1343
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:20,400
Speaker 3: you'd like to plug.

1344
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:22,720
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that's such a funny question. Now that

1345
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:26,679
Speaker 1: social media has changed. I used to always say follow

1346
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:30,639
Speaker 1: me on Twitter, and now it's like social media talk

1347
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:35,879
Speaker 1: about some emotionally immature I feel like, behaving like children.

1348
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:36,479
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1349
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 1: Yes, the people that actually are in charge of social media,

1350
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:44,320
Speaker 1: but you can find me on my website where you

1351
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 1: can download this article, the article we talked about on LLE,

1352
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 1: my interview with selling Song, as well as just links

1353
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:52,800
Speaker 1: to my books and reports and all sorts of stuff.

1354
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:58,040
Speaker 1: So it's Nancy whyutin dot com and I am Nancy

1355
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:02,120
Speaker 1: why you eat in one? That's my handle for wherever

1356
01:19:02,160 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 1: you are so excellent. Oh, in my book Real Inequality. Sorry,

1357
01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:12,040
Speaker 1: my book is Real Inequality Hollywood actors and racism. It's

1358
01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 1: about experiences, not just actors, but just Hollywood racism in general.

1359
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:21,799
Speaker 1: I'm actually in the process of updating it so perhaps

1360
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:25,400
Speaker 1: and hopefully for like a maybe a ten year follow

1361
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:27,960
Speaker 1: up that will be coming out. I'm also writing a

1362
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:31,920
Speaker 1: memoir based on the TV shows and films I watched

1363
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:34,920
Speaker 1: growing up, as well as the Asian American films. I

1364
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 1: may be working past lives into my memoir actually, because

1365
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:42,880
Speaker 1: it really did speak so much to my own understanding

1366
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 1: of immigration, and so many films like The Farewell and

1367
01:19:46,600 --> 01:19:51,280
Speaker 1: Minari and now this film really speaking too maybe helping

1368
01:19:51,280 --> 01:19:56,559
Speaker 1: me process my own immigration trauma so much. So just movies,

1369
01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 1: you know, can help you do that. In their best

1370
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:02,120
Speaker 1: they can be cathartic, they can be revelatory, So I

1371
01:20:02,160 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 1: think that's that's what films about are truly doing the work.

1372
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:09,320
Speaker 1: And all the things that I listed all autobiographical.

1373
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:11,519
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, and they all came out within the past

1374
01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:16,160
Speaker 3: like three years, which is roughly indicative of a like

1375
01:20:16,439 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 3: trend of there being far more stories like this and

1376
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:25,479
Speaker 3: stories about underrepresented people and communities. So thank you again

1377
01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:28,200
Speaker 3: for joining us. I really appreciate it. Come back anytime,

1378
01:20:28,280 --> 01:20:28,920
Speaker 3: bring any movie.

1379
01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 1: Thank you so much fun, so much fun. Well, I

1380
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:33,519
Speaker 1: will talk about everything everywhere all at once if you want to,

1381
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:39,040
Speaker 1: because there are so many similar things, right in terms

1382
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:44,840
Speaker 1: of you know, not a supportive male figures and yeah.

1383
01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:49,400
Speaker 3: I know. And in the meantime, you can follow us

1384
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:53,040
Speaker 3: on mostly Instagram these days. At Bechdel Cast, you can

1385
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:57,879
Speaker 3: go to our Patreon aka Matreon. We have two bonus

1386
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:01,439
Speaker 3: episodes that come out every month there on a fun

1387
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:04,759
Speaker 3: little theme that we cook up and it's five dollars

1388
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 3: a month, and that's at patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast,

1389
01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:11,680
Speaker 3: and our link tree is where you can find a

1390
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 3: lot of other goodies that we have going on.

1391
01:21:17,520 --> 01:21:20,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh, with that, you can get our merch

1392
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:24,599
Speaker 2: at tipable dot com slash v Bechdel Cast and we

1393
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:27,840
Speaker 2: will be back, same time, same place next week. See

1394
01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:30,880
Speaker 2: you then, see you then bye bye.

1395
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 3: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

1396
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:41,799
Speaker 3: Caitlin Dorante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

1397
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:45,040
Speaker 3: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1398
01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:49,519
Speaker 3: Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Volskrosenski. Our logo and merch

1399
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:52,640
Speaker 3: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to

1400
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:57,120
Speaker 3: Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

1401
01:21:57,160 --> 01:21:59,160
Speaker 3: linktree slash Bechdel Cast