WEBVTT - The Great Sci-Fi Debate: What Makes a Film Science Fiction? 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:20.159 Hello, My name is Jason and I'm Rosie Knight, and 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:20.959 welcome back. 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:23.319 The x Ray Vision of the podcast will be dive 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:25.440 you to your favorite shows. 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:28.280 Movies, comics to pop culture coming from her podcast will. 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:31.440 We're bringing you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:35.320 In today's episode, we're going to start off by arguing 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:38.120 about what constitutes the science fiction movie and will that 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:41.960 take up most of the podcast potentially potentially because it's 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:44.080 been taking up most of our life in the group chat. 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:48.280 And then we will be presenting our faith. 0:00:48.320 --> 0:00:49.200 Each of us will. 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:53.360 Present our five favorite science fiction movies, see if the 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:57.400 judging panel of our peers agrees with them, and then 0:00:57.640 --> 0:00:59.800 you will all be able to vote on whom do 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:05.960 you think has the best five top science fiction films. 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.959 And the democracy will take place across multiple platforms, mail 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:15.039 in voting, DMS, post scored, wherever. However, you want to 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.480 reach out to us and tell us whose list of 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:19.080 five is the best, you go ahead and do that. 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:20.759 Let's get into it. 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:27.280 Okay, here we are. We're about to put up our 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:34.479 x Ray Vision crew list of our favorite sci fi 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:38.399 movies that are not Star Wars. Oh yes, important, No, 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:42.800 Star Wars and no Star Wars, and we may exclude 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:47.119 other things. But first let's introduce the crew. It's me Jason, 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:51.400 it's you Rosie, of course, but let's welcome in the 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:53.320 Superducer team for today. 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:55.760 Joelle, how are you yo? 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:03.920 Devastated to learn that so many people don't know what's that. 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:05.960 Coming out? 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:10.280 I haven't even introduced everybody Else's no ability for everybody 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:14.200 else to retort. Super producer Aboo. 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:17.640 Welcome, great to be here. I'm personally devastated that Joel 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:19.120 doesn't seem to know what sci fi is. 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:28.639 But wait, okay, okay, hold on, please college calm down. 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:35.760 And finally, our final super producer, Carmen. Carmen welcome, thank you. 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.280 Hello. I am just here because I love to discourse, 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.040 so I cannot wait to discourse. 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:43.960 I came to be messy. 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.440 She's like, I can't. She's like, my android phone has 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:55.560 been messing up the iPhone group chat, and please let's 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:56.440 not get into that. 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.320 It is. I mean, there's a multiverse right now where 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:04.280 different versions of ourselves are taking place, are discoursing in 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.400 different group chats through time, and we don't even know 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.799 where they all are. It's like messages are only going 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:15.240 to like different people in the group chat at different 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:19.520 times in different places. Anyway, here's the question before us today, 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:24.560 what are the best? What are our personal best non 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:32.120 Star Wars sci fis? So as we prepare to answer 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:37.960 that question, let's first talk about what is sci fi? 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.840 I think we all have our own ideas about what 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.480 it is and what it looks like. But much like 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:50.040 the Supreme Court's definition of pornography from like thirty years ago, now. 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:52.960 It also feels like it's kind of a know it 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:54.440 when you see its situation. 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:59.400 Yea, and I think the borders of sci fi are, 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.400 you know, from person to person or a lot more 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:09.360 porous and a morphous than uh than perhaps the standard 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:14.120 definition whatever that is. So let's talk about it first. 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:16.599 What Joel, I. 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.480 Feel you like bucking in the in the pen ready 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:21.800 to be released? 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:30.159 We got it, we gotta we have. Because Joel doesn't 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:33.200 even think that Star Wars is a science fiction THEA, 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:38.600 let's start there, Joe, what is what is your definition 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:39.240 of sci fi? 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:44.240 Okay, so for listeners, this started in the group chat 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:45.880 or like what and I was like, well, it's gotta 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.480 absolutely like have science in it. It's science fiction. It's 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:53.120 the whole points analyze science. Okay, And people are like, 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:56.280 you actually don't need science, which is bananas. Why even 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.159 call it science fiction if you're not gonna have science 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.320 as a base element of the film. 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.000 Okay, it doesn't make sense to me. Star Wars is 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:09.120 a fantasy. No, there's no elements we did not see either, 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:10.440 no testtoobs. We're not. 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.120 You know, there are droids, which I might make an 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.080 argument for making a film a sci fi in a minute, 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.400 so I might have to eat crow on this. 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:19.560 We do have droids. 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:23.640 We have robots on planet Earth. But here's here's why 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:25.479 it makes a difference. Okay, here's why I don't count it. 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:30.200 I like Asimov. Isaac Asimov a writer, foundation and many 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.039 other side. He's one of the Big three or whatever. 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.240 His thoughts on what science fiction are is that it's 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:43.000 mankind's reaction to science and technology. Okay, And in Star Wars, 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.120 we're not. We're like, droids are just there. They're so commonplace. 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.440 This is no, not a reaction or instated into the storytellers. 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:52.160 So let me just to just to clarify for the audience. Yes, 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:56.679 your position is that because there is no discussion of 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:04.000 how say light Speed works or you know the science, yeah, 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:08.359 or the science behind how the artifical artificial intelligence of 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:13.520 Droid's work. Therefore, Star Wars is not a sci fi. 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.159 So that's your position, which, by the way, I'm respecting, right, No, 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:18.039 I appreciate that you No. 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.120 Yeah, if you're not in, if the characters are not 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.400 engaging with the science or technology, it's not. 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:26.320 Can I can I as a pushback? As a slight pushback? 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:27.920 Aren't. 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:34.000 Hasn't this kind of market and efficiency been corrected by 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:38.440 the creation or the acknowledgment of the sci fi sub 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:40.720 genre hard sci fi? 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.839 Because hard sci fi is because. 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.280 Hard sci fi is more of the you know three 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.720 body problem foundation. 0:06:51.960 --> 0:07:00.520 Sure, you know what's an actual scientific theory? 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:57.800 Rightly? 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:01.719 You know sci fi? 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.400 Right if Freakinsteign kicks off the genre that's not based 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.800 in anything scientifically factual, and it doesn't need to be. 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.400 It is based in this idea of like, what is 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:14.200 the possibility of science? And if we rely and lean 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:17.280 into it, how does that affect us as Hugh? How 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:19.480 does it change how we see ourselves as human? And 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:21.560 I really like that. I think for me that's what 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.640 the category of sci fi is trying to accomplish. 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.640 Okay, does anybody have any drastically different definitions of sci fi? 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:29.080 For a control? 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:34.120 Well, I uh, I've said my piece. I will push 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:36.240 back later, but does anybody have a drastic like a 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:37.280 polar opposite? 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.800 So I know you've got at least some thoughts on this. 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:44.160 Yeah, I think my definition of sci fi, rather than 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.080 being the polar opposite here is more that my sci 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:51.080 fi umbrella is just much bigger. It encompasses so much more. 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:54.800 For me, a lot of science fiction is speculative storytelling, 0:07:55.320 --> 0:08:00.640 and that encompasses a lot of different subgenres, of which 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:05.200 hard hard science fiction is certainly one. But you have 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:08.920 your dystopian sci fi genres that aren't necessarily grounded in 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:13.520 this one piece of technology caused the dystopia U. We're 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.320 certainly going to be debating one of those films later 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:21.520 on today, and so for me, the for me, science 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:27.800 fiction is a genre of storytelling that really turns a 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:32.840 mirror on humanity through whatever device or setting that it 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.800 may be, right, whether it's we're set in a dystopian 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.200 world and we are taking a look at humanity through 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:44.120 that lens and providing social commentary there, or we're in 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.400 Star Trek and it's like zap zapp lasers and space battles. 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:50.960 Both of those to me are equally science fiction because 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:56.920 they are providing a level of social commentary through their settings, characters, technologies, 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:57.920 et cetera. 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.400 Can I can I with a gentle pushback as well, 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:06.840 is name me any genre of storytelling that does not quote, 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.360 turn a mirror on the human condition. 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:16.360 I would say there are certainly genres of storytelling that 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:24.160 are less focused on social or political commentary. I would say, 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:28.120 for example, something like fourth Wing. While there are political 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:31.520 elements in that story, I don't think that. I don't think. 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:38.440 I don't think the main goal and the main message 0:09:38.480 --> 0:09:42.280 of that story is I am making a commentary on 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:47.720 how humanity exists today. I think science fiction and the 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:49.719 best of science fiction does that. 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:56.160 Does anyone have any other meaningful critiques or things to 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:58.360 add to the discussion of what is and what is 0:09:58.400 --> 0:09:59.600 not sci fi? 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:02.800 I will just say I do think that sci fi. 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:07.400 I am in the mindset of it being broader. Like 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:11.240 one of the original posts, you know, Frankenstein by Mary Shelley, 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.679 which is the first science fiction book. As much as 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:19.080 other places would hate to give credit for that comment, Actually, 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:21.800 why don't you jump in with your nerdy fact that 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.160 you've put in the group chat, but did not feel 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:26.040 brave enough to say against Joel. 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:29.400 Well, yes, thank you for giving me the floor. I 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.040 just wanted to say. Mary Shelley was so it was 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.400 a dream. She had a nightmare she had, but she 0:10:34.520 --> 0:10:37.840 was inspired by a previous demonstration she had seen Luigi 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:40.880 Galvani perform on a dead frog. He was a man 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.760 from Italy who invented the Galvanic method. I only know 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:45.960 about this because I was an esthetician for ten years 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:53.200 and he made this dead frog move around using electricity, 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:55.920 and later like she had a dream about it, and 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:58.400 I guess dreamt that she could make a man come 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:01.880 to life using electricity, and then wrote wrote the book. 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:05.400 You know, I would say, like, that's eighteen seventeen. In 0:11:05.480 --> 0:11:08.440 eighteen seventy you have twenty thousand Leagues under the Sea 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.880 by Jules Vern which might not seem like a science 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:15.400 fiction story, but is very much in that space because 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.360 he's going under the sea instead of into space. So 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:25.520 I think the notion of exploring some kind of territory 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:29.360 that we've never seen before, whether it's medical like Frankenstein, 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:33.640 whether it is a space like underwater or whether it 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:37.160 is a space like space. I think that the notion 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:40.000 of needing to explore something new. I mean this even 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:43.600 fits in with dystopias like you are in the Hunger Games. Yeah, 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.920 you're making a commentary on humanity, but you're also imagining 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.160 a way that technology and media could be used in 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.839 a terrible way, kind of like nineteen eighty four. So 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:57.840 I think it's also about imagining and embarking on a 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:00.920 new location or a new technolog I think that has 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:04.560 to be some kind of exploratory angle to it, even 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.480 if you're just exploring a hypothetical of what could happen 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:08.120 in the future. 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:12.480 I see I also have a I think a larger 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.560 view of what sci fi is. I take the view 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:23.040 of that to counter Joelle. I think, first of all, 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.160 it would be too destabilizing to the. 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:28.520 To the to the. 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:35.000 DVD and labeling the genre marketplace, on the genre community 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.600 to suddenly it would just be a massive upheaval. I 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:40.960 think of like suddenly Star Wars is going to have 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:43.000 to just be labeled fantasy. I think it'll be confusing 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.160 to people, and I think that for me, I think 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:52.559 sci fi is simply does the story have at its heart, 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:59.439 as part of its like load bearing plot, have technology 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:06.200 or devices that do not exist currently. I think it's 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:10.200 for me. For me, I think it's it's really that simple. 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:10.640 Now. 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.040 I think we're going to encounter in our discussions stories 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.640 where you know it's on the border of maybe being 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:20.199 a sci fi or maybe some something else. But then 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:24.880 like characters have communication devices that seem advanced. To me, 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:28.800 that's if it's just like a couple of devices, but 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:31.560 it's not like central to the plot, it's not sci fi. 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:36.360 Whereas if it's like back to the Future, to me, 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:40.040 is sci fi because the whole thing is like time machine. 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:42.920 Even though a lot of the story is not sci fi, 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:47.800 none of the story happens because because if there is 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:48.840 no time machine. 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.559 So that's my tick. Does anybody have a problem that 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:51.840 I have? 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.480 I think making the cutoff there technology that does not 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:04.720 exist today undercuts like ninety percent of Black Mirror, right 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:08.280 because Black Mirror, for me, I think it's at the 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:12.200 core of sci fi is asking what if it's what 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.240 if this thing was taken to an extreme or this 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.120 is the direction humanity went, what would happen? How would 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.760 we react, What would that mean politically socially? And so 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.600 I think making the cutoffs something that doesn't exist today 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.040 excludes quite a bit of sci fi that asks the 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:31.240 what if question? What if ai xyz? What if you 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.120 know this this technology had this effect on the environment 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:35.920 with stuff that's already happening today. 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:37.080 Hmmm. 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:41.240 I take your point, But now does anybody have any 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:41.760 issues with it? 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.400 Here's my retort. I think a lot of black. 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:46.840 Mirror is like, what if we were even more addicted 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:49.080 to our phones than we are? What if this technology 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:54.400 exists has driven us completely to one side of the spectrum? 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.600 Is that sci fi? Or is that social commentary? To me? 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:04.320 Existing technology? Plus, uh, look at the way we are 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.960 engaging with this a story that hinges on, look at 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:14.720 our relationship to this technology is social commentary. Allah uh, 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:20.640 animal farm and not necessarily sci fi. 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:24.040 That's my I agree with that. I know I would 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:28.760 also say I think that the issue. I guess it's 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:30.920 not an issue. This is the kind of conversation we 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:32.720 can have because we love this stuff and we watch 0:15:32.760 --> 0:15:34.240 it and we can buy all the time and get 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.240 really granular. But I also think we got to about 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.640 the fact that like ninety of a viewing audience who 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.280 put on an episode of Black Mirror and it's about 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:45.520 like an evil iPad or whatever. They're like, yeah, this 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:47.400 is sci fi, Okay, you know what I mean? 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:51.520 Like, I think, I think some entry point, it's a 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.600 lot of I think a lot of Black Mirror is 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:55.240 sci fi, but I think a lot of it isn't. 0:15:55.280 --> 0:16:00.240 Like, for instance, the very first Black Mirror. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:04.080 Episode of you know, the guy who gets the president 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:06.720 of the Pig and the Pig? 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.120 Is that sci fi? It's actually not sci fi? I 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:13.080 will agree with that, Okay, So I guess it's an 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:15.440 episode by episode breakdown. 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:19.080 Right while the work now Sandra Depero sci fi true, 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.920 John Hamm and the Ai sci fi like, but some 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:24.520 of it isn't. 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.040 Some of it isn't okay. I also have to bring 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:30.480 up because I think this would be a question that 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:33.400 at least one person would ask. We are not including 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.960 Star Wars ops, and I think that you'll see from 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.600 our pics we are not including a lot of bigger 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:43.000 franchises in general. Yes, but let's quickly talk about the 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.520 the Disney shaped elephant in the room, which is that 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:51.160 going by a lot of our uh kind of reasoning 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:54.880 that we have laid out here, the MCU, Iron Man, 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.640 Black Panther, those are very much in our sci fi 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.800 space we are I think we're not including them because 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:03.480 of the same reason of Star Wars. We want to 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:05.600 talk to you guys about movies maybe you haven't seen, 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.880 or movies that we really love. But isn't it interesting 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.560 to me if I think of the MCU, I don't 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:13.720 think sci fi just off the top of my head. 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:15.800 But I was going through the movies and I was like, well, 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.840 Black Panther is definitely sci fi and always has been 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:23.159 since it was first created an Iron Man. Obviously, the 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.040 version we get of it in the MCU is extreme 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.400 sci fi, and when you get to Endgame and there 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:32.240 is like cosmic Battles, that is also sci fi. But 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.280 I am going to put a disclaim head that there 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.520 are no MCU movies in our pick well. 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:41.240 I think the issue is this superhero, which I think 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.240 has become now a genre of its own, is a 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:50.639 super container that contains every genre. It can be a 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.600 spy film, it can be a crime film, it can 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.600 be a fantasy, it can be a family movie, it 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.200 can be a sci fi and often it's often it's 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:04.479 all of those things in one to you know, lesser 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:08.120 or greater effect. So I think that's we're drilling down 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:12.760 specifically on the one container that is sci fi to 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:17.000 try and defind what what is Shall we go to 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:19.439 our Okay, we talked about excluding Star Wars. Is there 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.840 any does anybody here feel strongly about excluding anything else? 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.400 I feel like Dune is just such an obvious answer. 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:34.520 Yeah, that perhaps in the interest of exploring a large. 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:39.560 Ready to go to l A. I agree with you, girl. 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:42.959 If we're if we're not counting Star Wars, which is, 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:47.520 you know, spoiler allat basically just June ripped off, then 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:49.960 it makes sense that we would also not include June. 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:51.760 I think. I mean Star. 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:57.320 Wars is don't hold on, don't don't don't discount how 0:18:57.400 --> 0:18:59.800 much it also rips off foundation. 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:05.640 Also like every Corsi. Yeah, yeah, but I would also 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:08.760 say I think I think Dune would have been able 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:14.399 to be included pre the Billine movies, which have exploded 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:16.480 it to a whole different level. If you were coming 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:18.840 here and you were like, I'm arguing that my favorite 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:22.320 movie is David Lynch's Dune sci fi movie. You know, 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:24.800 five years ago when none of these existed, I probably 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:26.959 would have said, Okay, there's gonna be enough people who 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:29.679 this will be like a new entry point two, that 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:32.960 it's not so broad. But I think that now I 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:35.480 think it is a big enough one that we also 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:36.320 cut out. 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.040 So looking at looking at our lists, here's what I 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:42.800 think we're doing. And tell me if anybody disagrees with this. 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.480 We're saying no Star Wars because you know, it's kind 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.440 of like the big daddy of sci fi Joelle and 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:56.320 all apologies to your particular critique. And I think Dune 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:01.720 simply because of recency, let's put it away, because I 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.160 think everybody. I think what we're kind of circling around 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.480 here with our list is, hey, maybe you haven't seen 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:11.840 this one, or this is a big movie but it 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.639 came out twenty thirty years ago, and maybe you haven't 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.200 seen it and you should watch it because it's maybe 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.399 one that slips through the net. 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:22.359 I think that's what we're doing. Do we agree? 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:23.040 I agree? 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:23.359 Yes? 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:27.040 And so is does anything else rise to that level 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.440 of like you've probably you know, like we don't need 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:35.119 to discuss this Terminator for instance, or or Star Trek 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:37.119 or Alienmina. 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.320 I'm also going to say, like a movie that I 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:43.800 don't think anyone has on our lists, which I would 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.080 say two thousand and one A Space Odyssey, right, I 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:51.479 would say, you've heard about it, seen as high as 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:54.960 you go. I would also say I am interested because 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:57.840 I'm trying to think of other big franchises like this, 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:02.560 and I mean, I don't think any of us are 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:04.880 going to include these, but like Planet of the Apes, 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:08.520 that's definitely like one of those big sci fi franchises. 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:10.640 How does Joel feel about it? 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:14.520 Is it? I looked at it for a long time. 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:14.960 Here's what. 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.600 Definitely are right right, You're talking. 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:20.000 Right right right. 0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:23.600 They're testing and they create these, you know, like hyperanals. 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.480 So the new ones definitely are. The old ones might 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:27.320 be more fantasy. 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:30.159 Mm hmmm, I think yeah. The old ones are almost 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:34.639 more like a old universe, post apocalyptic world kind of sur. 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:37.640 There's very little science. The rocket ship. 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.320 I do believe I was gonna say, I do believe 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.400 that the notion of the movie is that you could 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:47.919 go through space so fast and so long that you 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:50.160 would end up in the future. So I'm like, could 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.040 it be? But anyway, basically irrelevant because none of us 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.280 picked them. Now, I will bring up one that I 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:57.840 was considering a lot, and I'm not going to include 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.919 because I do think this is too popular. But what 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:06.560 about Godzilla? Because the original Godzilla movie from nineteen fifty 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:11.480 four is about a nuclear bomb. It's about the evolution 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:14.760 of like a dinosaur like creature. So and it started 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:17.080 a subgenre kind of like Planet of the Apes did 0:22:17.160 --> 0:22:20.159 with this. But the Godzilla sub genre was, you know, 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:25.840 kaiju science fiction. There's definitely movies like Godzilla versus Bolante 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:29.760 where you have the movie where it's like the scientist 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:32.959 is doing the experiments to create the kaiju. But I 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:35.320 think that we are in a Godzilla, I think the 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:37.639 renaissance right now. So I don't think we need to 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:39.760 include those either. 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:43.080 My thought is that is a very specific genre. Now 0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:46.000 that well, I agree with you. It might have started 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:49.160 as like a sci fi offshoot. I think the monster Kaiju, 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:55.040 Kaiju Monster, It's it's like the Blob, King Kong, Godzilla, 0:22:55.200 --> 0:23:00.320 et cetera. Yeah, yeah, Attack of the fifty the Woman 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:01.040 great one. 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:06.159 Yes, So okay, oh, that's I mean that where do 0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:06.680 we stand? 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:10.119 We are where do we stand on the sub genre 0:23:10.240 --> 0:23:24.800 of shrinking or growing? Joel incredible shrinkingly. 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:31.639 It absolutely fits into the notion of how we explained honey, 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:35.160 I shrunk the kids, but like, yeah, incredible voyage. I think, 0:23:35.280 --> 0:23:38.040 oh yeah, I loved the Incredible Voyage as a kid. 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:40.440 I think it's going to be very interesting because I think, 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:44.199 really what this is and what this conversation is is 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:47.520 about the sci fi stories that speak to us and 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:50.040