1
00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,480
Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power colli

2
00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:10,880
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with

3
00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:27,400
Speaker 1: Emily Jay. I'm Emily checking San Francisco, and this is

4
00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,560
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour. Add Snap

5
00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,040
Speaker 1: to a list of big tech names laying off hundreds

6
00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,120
Speaker 1: of workers. This is two top ad exacts leaves out

7
00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,560
Speaker 1: for Netflix. The slowdown and revenue growth being felt across

8
00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,600
Speaker 1: the tech industry, and some companies like Netflix are turning

9
00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,960
Speaker 1: to ads as the answer. Plus Smark Zuckerberg's conversation with

10
00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,720
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan offered a glimpse into his vision or meta,

11
00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,720
Speaker 1: but the tough reality is that vision hasn't changed much

12
00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:59,240
Speaker 1: since Facebook oculus back in and people just don't see

13
00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,800
Speaker 1: that in to it. And we continue our ed tech

14
00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:06,080
Speaker 1: series after new poll shows less than half of American

15
00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,440
Speaker 1: support President Biden student at relief plan. We will also

16
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,200
Speaker 1: chat with the CEO of the text Bookmaker, person who

17
00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,200
Speaker 1: thinks n f T S could be a new revenue stream.

18
00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:18,759
Speaker 1: All of that in a moment, but first let's get

19
00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,560
Speaker 1: a look at Snap slashing staff, scaling back on investments

20
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,560
Speaker 1: to rain in costs after a broader pullback on ad spending,

21
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,240
Speaker 1: snapping its sales growth this year, Snapchat's parent company, the

22
00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,800
Speaker 1: latest in a wave of tech layoffs that has plunged

23
00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,520
Speaker 1: the NASDAC into choppy waters. Let's get the latest now

24
00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,920
Speaker 1: with Bloomberg's Alex Baringa. So, Alex, this is a pretty

25
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,720
Speaker 1: deep cut we're talking about, and they're cutting a lot

26
00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,399
Speaker 1: of businesses that we're generating a lot of buzz What's

27
00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,959
Speaker 1: happening here? That's right, It's a deep cut and it

28
00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,600
Speaker 1: doesn't just stop at headcount numbers. So snap has its

29
00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,720
Speaker 1: core Snapchat platform. They've also kind of rolled out a

30
00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,280
Speaker 1: number of buzzy projects like the Pixie drone with which

31
00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,480
Speaker 1: flies around and takes pictures, or like a mini games

32
00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,440
Speaker 1: within the app. A lot of these projects are falling

33
00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,560
Speaker 1: by the wayside. They're either being killed or scaled back

34
00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,000
Speaker 1: in the case of something like snaps Spectacles. Now all

35
00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,080
Speaker 1: of this has basically come to a head, as the

36
00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,720
Speaker 1: company said. The CEO said in an internal memo that

37
00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,560
Speaker 1: revenue growth for this quarter is basically going to hit

38
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,679
Speaker 1: single digits for the first time ever since they're a

39
00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,240
Speaker 1: public company. Um, So they are looking at the company

40
00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:28,519
Speaker 1: really refocusing on anything that is monetize able on their

41
00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,959
Speaker 1: ad business and on any future potential UM places to

42
00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:38,160
Speaker 1: make revenue and culling basically everything als simily, they're also

43
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:42,120
Speaker 1: losing their chief business officer, Jeremy Gorman going over to Netflix.

44
00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,440
Speaker 1: We actually recently had Jeremy right here on the show.

45
00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,799
Speaker 1: What do you make of this? Yeah, so this is

46
00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:50,959
Speaker 1: part of this kind of restructure slash re org that

47
00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,880
Speaker 1: Snap has. All of Jeremy Gorman's businesses are shifting over

48
00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,840
Speaker 1: to a new chief operating officer UM that they have

49
00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,760
Speaker 1: promoted from their engineering team him. Look, I think that

50
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,720
Speaker 1: an analyst over at j MP Security summed it up best.

51
00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,359
Speaker 1: They said, we don't really know who's in charge of

52
00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,880
Speaker 1: the AD business right now. Um. I think it will

53
00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:11,280
Speaker 1: be another bit of this kind of proved me process

54
00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,560
Speaker 1: to be sure that leadership there at Snap really can

55
00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,399
Speaker 1: show that they can kind of lean into the role

56
00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,400
Speaker 1: that Jeremy is exiting. She is a kind of seasoned

57
00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,480
Speaker 1: ad executive. She is really strong on the AD sales

58
00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,320
Speaker 1: side and has experienced at other big tech companies. So

59
00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,080
Speaker 1: they definitely have a bit of a gap there to fill.

60
00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:32,840
Speaker 1: UM and look, that whole business, which is the money

61
00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,760
Speaker 1: making arm of Snap will now be reporting into a

62
00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,200
Speaker 1: brand new executive new seat. So for investors, they're happy

63
00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,760
Speaker 1: to see the cost cuts from the news today, but

64
00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,000
Speaker 1: I would guarantee that that's going to be a place

65
00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,320
Speaker 1: that they're watching because that is, you know, the bread

66
00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,160
Speaker 1: and butter of snaps top line. Now, now there's been

67
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,080
Speaker 1: a lot of tumult in social media, but you know,

68
00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:58,240
Speaker 1: for somewhat different reasons. Obviously meta we reported yesterday they're

69
00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,400
Speaker 1: laying off a bunch of contractors, also doing this big

70
00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,040
Speaker 1: pivot to the metaverse. Twitter is embroiled in this lawsuit

71
00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:08,120
Speaker 1: with Elon Musk. You've got TikTok, you know, fighting these

72
00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,520
Speaker 1: content moderation wars, but kind of winning on the engagement side.

73
00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:18,159
Speaker 1: Can you compare snaps fortunes with these other competitive platforms. Yeah,

74
00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,400
Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting, Emily. Snap has really kind

75
00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:25,920
Speaker 1: of benefited from its reputation and its prowess with younger generations. Um,

76
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,120
Speaker 1: that is really when advotagers go there to spend money

77
00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 1: like that is one of the things that's top of mind.

78
00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,240
Speaker 1: Snap owns the younger generations. Well, now you have TikTok

79
00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:39,359
Speaker 1: on the scene, who has also really done well to

80
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:44,360
Speaker 1: win over the downloads and the business of those younger audiences.

81
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,880
Speaker 1: So you have TikTok kind of leaning in and pushing

82
00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,920
Speaker 1: in on Snap um and and kind of threatening their

83
00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,000
Speaker 1: core user base. And then you have places, as you mentioned,

84
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,679
Speaker 1: like Meta, and I would also throw Google its search

85
00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,240
Speaker 1: and YouTube businesses in the mix there too, which are

86
00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,760
Speaker 1: a bit more I would say to handable for advertisers.

87
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,159
Speaker 1: So if you're looking at a where is the money

88
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,360
Speaker 1: going basis, we've seen to the last a few earning cycles,

89
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,520
Speaker 1: it's not really going to Snap. TikTok's a private company,

90
00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,719
Speaker 1: so we will see Meta and YouTube. Google seem to

91
00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:16,840
Speaker 1: be continuing to kind of break in the cash. So

92
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,840
Speaker 1: it's definitely a fight out and I would toss Instagram

93
00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,279
Speaker 1: there in the mix too as well. Um probably somewhere

94
00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,200
Speaker 1: in the middle. It's definitely a battle that is raging

95
00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:26,800
Speaker 1: that will we pay a lot of attention to. But

96
00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,560
Speaker 1: when it comes to Snap again, like this kind of

97
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,440
Speaker 1: podium they've been on, of owning gen Z, of owning

98
00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,960
Speaker 1: the teens and twentysomethings, I think that's really coming under

99
00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,920
Speaker 1: threat in a way that perhaps they haven't seen before.

100
00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,320
Speaker 1: From the likes of fakesbook Instagram or YouTube. All right,

101
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,640
Speaker 1: Alex Barenka, thank you cover social media for us. Appreciate

102
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,880
Speaker 1: it well. As we mentioned those two Snap executives going

103
00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,039
Speaker 1: from snaps ad business to help Netflix launch their ad

104
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:58,080
Speaker 1: supported platform, Jeremy Gorman, as we mentioned, along with the

105
00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,359
Speaker 1: president of ad Sales Peter Naylor, joining Netflix in September.

106
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,320
Speaker 1: Here to tell us more about this, Bloomberg's Lucashaw So Lucas,

107
00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:10,279
Speaker 1: how big a coup is this for Netflix? I mean, look,

108
00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,039
Speaker 1: they took two of the top executives in the digital

109
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,680
Speaker 1: ad business right now, Peter Naylor in particular, the Jeremy

110
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,360
Speaker 1: Gorman I believe more senior at Snap. Peter Naylor helped

111
00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,400
Speaker 1: build the ad business at Hulu, which, other than YouTube,

112
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,000
Speaker 1: is really the biggest digital video ad business in the US.

113
00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,440
Speaker 1: Netflix have spent the past couple of months, if not longer,

114
00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,240
Speaker 1: looking for some executives to to lead the charge for

115
00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,240
Speaker 1: them as they move into advertising, and now they have,

116
00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,760
Speaker 1: you know, two really solid people. So at this point,

117
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,719
Speaker 1: what do we know about Netflix's ad supported to here,

118
00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:44,960
Speaker 1: how it will compare it to Disney's add supported tier, etcetera. Uh,

119
00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,440
Speaker 1: we know that it's going to debut either in the

120
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:50,880
Speaker 1: final three months of this year likely and in November,

121
00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,080
Speaker 1: December or at the very beginning of next year. Uh.

122
00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,360
Speaker 1: My reporting has suggested that it will be cost about

123
00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,960
Speaker 1: half as much as the basic Netflix here, so think

124
00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,520
Speaker 1: like eight bucks nine bucks. There will be advertising in

125
00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,880
Speaker 1: some programming, but not all, not advertising and kids programming,

126
00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,080
Speaker 1: at least not first not advertising in new movies. Uh

127
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,680
Speaker 1: And they'll be ads before and during some programs, but

128
00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,760
Speaker 1: not after. And they're aiming for about four minutes of

129
00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,800
Speaker 1: advertising per hour. You brought up Disney the four minute

130
00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,240
Speaker 1: Netflix or like Disney and like HBO, Max is aiming

131
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,160
Speaker 1: for a low advertising load and they can charge a

132
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,840
Speaker 1: lot for those advertisements. They don't want to have much

133
00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:29,960
Speaker 1: more than four minutes per hour. They don't want to

134
00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,640
Speaker 1: make it uncomfortable for the viewers. That's much easier said

135
00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,240
Speaker 1: than done. And we'll have a better sense of what

136
00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,840
Speaker 1: this looks and feels like when these services come out

137
00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,840
Speaker 1: at the end of the year. A couple interesting headlines

138
00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,600
Speaker 1: out from Dow Jones, One that Disney is exploring an

139
00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:49,080
Speaker 1: Amazon Prime like membership program to offer various discounts and perks.

140
00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,840
Speaker 1: Another that Netflix is looking to charge brands premium pricing

141
00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:57,560
Speaker 1: for this ad supported tier, which is not necessarily a surprise.

142
00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,280
Speaker 1: What do you make of these? Yeah, I mean the

143
00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,680
Speaker 1: Disney News I think makes a lot of sense. They

144
00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,920
Speaker 1: already have a bundle for their three streaming services, and

145
00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,120
Speaker 1: they also will charge fans of their parts for what's

146
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,480
Speaker 1: called an annual pass, where you can pay one set

147
00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,600
Speaker 1: price and get to go again and again, with the

148
00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,280
Speaker 1: exception of certain days. Like Disney is the one media

149
00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:21,200
Speaker 1: company that has a truly loyal fan base. They love

150
00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,040
Speaker 1: the brand, they love the characters. Uh, and so them

151
00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,400
Speaker 1: trying to create one bundle for their super fan that

152
00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,800
Speaker 1: people can pay and reduce churn or the number of

153
00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 1: cancelations for for some of their services makes all the

154
00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,200
Speaker 1: sense in the world, you know. As for Netflix, I don't.

155
00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,920
Speaker 1: I honestly don't think that's really news. Both the Journal

156
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,280
Speaker 1: and we have reported before that they're looking to charge

157
00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,360
Speaker 1: medium prices. All right, that would make sense Bloomberg's look

158
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,560
Speaker 1: a shaw, thank you very much. Meantime, Twitter has subpoena

159
00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,600
Speaker 1: at Stanford University as part of its legal battle with

160
00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:57,280
Speaker 1: Elon Musk. Yes, the university. I'll tell you why. Next,

161
00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:10,360
Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg. Let's get the latest now on the

162
00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,600
Speaker 1: Musk Twitter trial. The billionaire asking for more time again,

163
00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,040
Speaker 1: this time to dissect the claims of a whistle blower.

164
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,000
Speaker 1: And also Elon Musk wants to talk with his alma mater,

165
00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,960
Speaker 1: and that is Stanford University here to explain Bloomberg's Jeff Feely. So, Jeff,

166
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:26,880
Speaker 1: let me get this straight. We thought it was Twitter

167
00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,680
Speaker 1: subpoena NG Stanford, but actually it's Musk subpoena NG Stanford.

168
00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,240
Speaker 1: Why would Musk? Why would Musk want information from Stanford

169
00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:40,520
Speaker 1: University about the Twitter deal? Okay, so we don't know

170
00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,400
Speaker 1: for sure, but one of the Twitter board members, a

171
00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,840
Speaker 1: Dr Lee, works at Stanford and the is one of

172
00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:52,079
Speaker 1: the AI experts at Stanford. So it could be that. Uh,

173
00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,400
Speaker 1: it also could be wants to check and see who

174
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,280
Speaker 1: she had conversations with among her colleagues about, you know,

175
00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:04,680
Speaker 1: problems with the deal. Uh, you know where exactly could

176
00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,680
Speaker 1: this lead? Well, I mean, what's going on here is

177
00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,360
Speaker 1: both sides are trying to put together their cases for

178
00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,520
Speaker 1: the October seventeenth trial, and Mr Musk wants to know what,

179
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,720
Speaker 1: you know, what conversations the Twitter board members have had

180
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:25,079
Speaker 1: with people about this. Obviously, looking for material that would

181
00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,480
Speaker 1: you help him justify walking away? Interesting? Okay, Well, you know,

182
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:36,120
Speaker 1: obviously this case is changing by the minute. Yesterday we

183
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,280
Speaker 1: learned Elon Musk wanted to try to get the trial

184
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:42,240
Speaker 1: pushed to November. Now he's potentially trying to get it

185
00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:46,720
Speaker 1: pushed even further out to December. What exactly do we

186
00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:51,560
Speaker 1: know about what Musk is asking for at this point. Well,

187
00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,360
Speaker 1: they're asking to push the trial to late November early

188
00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,760
Speaker 1: December to give themselves and the Twitter folks more time

189
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,079
Speaker 1: to dig into the allegations of the whistleblower that have emerged,

190
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,319
Speaker 1: and you know, people need to find out whether his

191
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:14,360
Speaker 1: allegations are substantial or sour grapes. This gentleman was fired

192
00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,319
Speaker 1: from Twitter ashead of its computer security, uh for what

193
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,280
Speaker 1: the company says, we're performance issues. So it's gonna take

194
00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,000
Speaker 1: some time to really dig into this, and they're running

195
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:31,400
Speaker 1: out of time in terms of discovery. Late November to

196
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 1: state at the obvious is Thanksgiving in the United States,

197
00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:39,840
Speaker 1: So that you know, leads me to potentially December. What's

198
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,960
Speaker 1: the likelihood in your view that this case, this child

199
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,560
Speaker 1: gets moved um and when when will it judge make

200
00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,160
Speaker 1: a decision on this, Well, we don't know when Judge

201
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,320
Speaker 1: McCormick will rule, but most people believe she's going to

202
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:57,240
Speaker 1: grant more time because the emergence of this gentleman was

203
00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,760
Speaker 1: a surprise, and there's some inkling there could be other

204
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,800
Speaker 1: so blowers coming down the plate, so there could be

205
00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,880
Speaker 1: a need for, you know, to push it back in

206
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,440
Speaker 1: the interests of justice. So here's the question. Elon Musk,

207
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, said he was gonna buy Twitter with no diligence.

208
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,680
Speaker 1: That's on Elon Musk. Why is it all of the

209
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,520
Speaker 1: Why are these additional claims actually relevant? Well, the whistle

210
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:28,680
Speaker 1: blower raised issues about lacks computer security and privacy concerns.

211
00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,559
Speaker 1: If Twitter did not disclose those things to Mr Musk

212
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,560
Speaker 1: as part of the deal, and even though he didn't

213
00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:41,400
Speaker 1: do due diligence, they still have legal duties to disclose

214
00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:46,360
Speaker 1: things like that. It's called representations and warranties. And if

215
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,240
Speaker 1: the judge finds that they should have disclosed those things

216
00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:54,600
Speaker 1: that didn't, it can sink the deal. All right, Uh,

217
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,600
Speaker 1: lots going on here at Jeff, really appreciate you continuing

218
00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,679
Speaker 1: to give us the play by play and help us

219
00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,079
Speaker 1: make sound to all these moves, bloombergs Jeff Feely in Delaware,

220
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:13,520
Speaker 1: very busy guy for us. Thank you. You will be

221
00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,480
Speaker 1: able to have this experience in the future where like

222
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,640
Speaker 1: you're sitting in a meeting, um, and you know your

223
00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,319
Speaker 1: wife text too, and it pops up in the corner

224
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,800
Speaker 1: of your glasses and you want to respond, but you

225
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,440
Speaker 1: don't want to pull out your phone because that's kind

226
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,480
Speaker 1: of rude, right, UM, So you just kind of like

227
00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:32,160
Speaker 1: don't twitch your wrist a little bit, maybe like this

228
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,719
Speaker 1: like some super discreet motion, um that no one even

229
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,560
Speaker 1: knows you're doing it, and you just like send a message.

230
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,560
Speaker 1: And that seems like a massive distraction. I mean people

231
00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 1: are already distracted by their phones, Like when people get

232
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,079
Speaker 1: a text messages and they're like, hang on a second,

233
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,760
Speaker 1: I just can't answer this real quick. And you're like okay,

234
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:51,640
Speaker 1: and you're sitting there having lunch with someone and they're

235
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,439
Speaker 1: not talking to you anymore because they looking at their phone.

236
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,240
Speaker 1: But now they're going to be looking at these a

237
00:13:55,480 --> 00:14:00,760
Speaker 1: R glasses and just thinking out text messages. Just some

238
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,560
Speaker 1: of Mark Zuckerberg's very lengthy conversation on Joe Rogan's popular

239
00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,079
Speaker 1: podcast last week, Three Hours The interview was an opportunity

240
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:13,000
Speaker 1: for Zuckerberg to defend Meta's pivot to virtual and augmented reality.

241
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,520
Speaker 1: But as you just heard with Rogan's rebuttal, Zuckerberg's vision

242
00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,040
Speaker 1: is facing a tough reality here to discuss Max Chafkin.

243
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,880
Speaker 1: So there's a lot here, Max, But overall, what do

244
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:29,000
Speaker 1: you make of how Mark Zuckerberg portrayed his vision and

245
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:34,040
Speaker 1: how Joe Rogan reacted to it? Well, So, the thing

246
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,640
Speaker 1: that was just striking to me, as somebody's followed this

247
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,200
Speaker 1: for a long time, is how little Mark Zuckerberg's v R,

248
00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 1: a R metaverse, whatever you want to call it, how

249
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,680
Speaker 1: little that vision has changed. Um, you know, we've kind

250
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,520
Speaker 1: of over the last six months or so been talking

251
00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,440
Speaker 1: about it as if it's this, you know, brand new thing. Yeah,

252
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,040
Speaker 1: they they're spending billions of dollars um and kind of

253
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,200
Speaker 1: forgetting that Facebook purchased Oculus, you know, the company that

254
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,360
Speaker 1: seeded the VR effort in it has spent you know,

255
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,600
Speaker 1: even before spending ten billion dollars one, it had spent

256
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:10,080
Speaker 1: billions and billions of dollars marketing several successive devices. Um,

257
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,840
Speaker 1: you know, they had a Super Bowl at in February

258
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,680
Speaker 1: and really has gotten not a whole lot of traction,

259
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,440
Speaker 1: all things considered, And I think part of the reason

260
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,200
Speaker 1: is what we just heard that this pitch, which is

261
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,200
Speaker 1: that you're gonna kind of want to put Facebook um

262
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,520
Speaker 1: inside of virtual reality, uh and and strap it to

263
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:31,120
Speaker 1: your face, is just not that compelling, and they and

264
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,440
Speaker 1: they really still haven't figured out a way to to

265
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,400
Speaker 1: sell it. And and for three hours with Joe Rogan,

266
00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,080
Speaker 1: we saw Zuckerberg kind of working, you know, basically trying

267
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,360
Speaker 1: to his every trick he could think of to to

268
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,000
Speaker 1: sell it, and and you know, coming up short, I

269
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,280
Speaker 1: would say, now I've actually heard that texting example from

270
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,520
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg before about his wife setting in a text and

271
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,840
Speaker 1: how VR could be cool, uh to help him check

272
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,400
Speaker 1: that text without other people noticing. This one was new

273
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,760
Speaker 1: to me. Take a listen. There's something that's just so

274
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:11,400
Speaker 1: primal um about it that's I don't I don't know,

275
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,120
Speaker 1: it's it's and I've since then, I've just introduced a

276
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:15,680
Speaker 1: bunch of my friends to it, and that's been really

277
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,880
Speaker 1: fun because now it's like we're trained together and we

278
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,920
Speaker 1: just like wrestled together and just I don't know, there's

279
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,080
Speaker 1: like a certain intensity to it that I um that

280
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:28,680
Speaker 1: I I like h Now I understand maybe Zacherberg's trying

281
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:31,640
Speaker 1: to show a little bit more of his human side. Um,

282
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,440
Speaker 1: but there's a a sort of naivete there or or

283
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:41,560
Speaker 1: a falling flat I might say, Yeah, you know, one

284
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,600
Speaker 1: of the most successful tech people in the world bringing

285
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,600
Speaker 1: the cringe to Joe Rogan. Um. He maybe it wasn't

286
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,760
Speaker 1: clear if if people were just coming to it cold,

287
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,560
Speaker 1: but he's talking about jiu jitsu. Mark Zuckerberg has gotten

288
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,640
Speaker 1: into I guess, uh, combat sports. Um. And he was

289
00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,920
Speaker 1: trying to bond with Joe Rogan and again I think, um,

290
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,960
Speaker 1: you know kind of jokes aside with this just chows

291
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,040
Speaker 1: like this company is trying everything they can to connect

292
00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,800
Speaker 1: with people. So you know they they again, they tried

293
00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,320
Speaker 1: Super Bowl ads, they tried you know, demos, and now

294
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,320
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg's you know, sort of trying on this like alpha male,

295
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, I'm into fighting sports thing to to convince

296
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,800
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan's audience, which is substantial. I mean, Joe Rogan

297
00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,320
Speaker 1: has you know, the most successful podcast in the world

298
00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,040
Speaker 1: to you know, give give the you know, Oculus or

299
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:36,040
Speaker 1: or or the Facebook b our Devices shop. Meantime, let's

300
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,639
Speaker 1: talk about what he had to say about sort of

301
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,720
Speaker 1: screens and television and how he imagines um, all of

302
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:47,280
Speaker 1: these different screens and interfaces working together. Take a listen

303
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,879
Speaker 1: to what he had to say. I just want the

304
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,160
Speaker 1: time that people spend with screens to be better, because

305
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,400
Speaker 1: I mean, today, so much of it just like you're

306
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 1: just sitting around and in this like beta state consuming stuff.

307
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 1: And I think that that's like, oh h so, I

308
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:08,160
Speaker 1: wonder what he means by beta state there, and if

309
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:13,600
Speaker 1: his vision of screens is actually what people want. Yeah,

310
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,200
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to understand if you're trying to kind

311
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 1: of connect with the masses and convince them that this

312
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,040
Speaker 1: new product you have is great, um that you want

313
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,400
Speaker 1: to start out by sort of um, you know, dissing uh,

314
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,080
Speaker 1: what's basically the most popular entertainment medium in the world.

315
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,639
Speaker 1: I think what he was trying to say is that

316
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,879
Speaker 1: television is passive, and he was sort of using this

317
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,320
Speaker 1: kind of Joe Rogan verse alpha meaning active, strong manly,

318
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,119
Speaker 1: passive meaning uh, some beta meaning passive or almost effeminine

319
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,639
Speaker 1: to refer to television. But it really is kind of

320
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,280
Speaker 1: a head scratcher, and I just think it it just

321
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,879
Speaker 1: goes to show how kind of all over the place

322
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,840
Speaker 1: the marketing has been here and and it's it's worked

323
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,920
Speaker 1: in certain ways, right like the the these hardware devices

324
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,280
Speaker 1: have sold reasonably well as as kind of video game consoles.

325
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,960
Speaker 1: But in terms of trying to broaden this out, making

326
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,440
Speaker 1: this something that you know, regular people are going to

327
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,960
Speaker 1: use for meetings or or or for travel or something,

328
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,840
Speaker 1: I mean, really, we're not anywhere. All right, Well, if

329
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,560
Speaker 1: you have three hours, uh, that's just Mark Zuckerberg on

330
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,640
Speaker 1: Joe Rogan. If you want to hear more of Bloomberg's

331
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,720
Speaker 1: Max Chafkin, who also wrote about it Bloomberg Business Week.

332
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:31,800
Speaker 1: Appreciate your thoughts. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Emily

333
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 1: Check in San Francisco. We are continuing our education tech

334
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 1: coverage as we enter the school season. President Biden's unprecedented

335
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:43,080
Speaker 1: student loan cancelations getting some mixed reactions. A new warning

336
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:47,360
Speaker 1: consult Political surveys shows only forty eight percent of American

337
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,400
Speaker 1: support Biden's level of forgiveness. Who to discussed Sarah Leaving,

338
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,639
Speaker 1: CEO of the investing in financial planning platform Betterment, So

339
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 1: not necessarily a popular plan um not everyone supporting this

340
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 1: and a lot of debate. Sarah, where do you stand?

341
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 1: So I think there are economists on both sides of

342
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,240
Speaker 1: this issue, and I think we can agree that student

343
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,040
Speaker 1: loans are a major problem for this country, and that

344
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 1: there's one point seven trillion dollars in student loan debt outstanding,

345
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,200
Speaker 1: and also that this generation is more saddle the student

346
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 1: loan debt than any of the generations that have come before.

347
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 1: I think where the conversation gets trickier is what to

348
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,760
Speaker 1: do about it? And so I'm a believer personally that

349
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 1: what to do about it lies in advice and technology,

350
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 1: and that the federal government can play a part, but

351
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 1: the business also needs to play a part. How so, well,

352
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,440
Speaker 1: you know, I think the first the first thing that

353
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 1: is very true is that, you know, folks are are

354
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 1: not good at saving and are not necessarily good at

355
00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 1: understanding if I have another disposable dollar, where should I

356
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,119
Speaker 1: put it? Right? And so I think there's sort of

357
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 1: a regulatory and technology conversion here that's pretty exciting, where

358
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 1: we now can develop tools, and we had betterment, are

359
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 1: developing tools to really say to a student loan a

360
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 1: student loan holder, look, what should you do with your

361
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 1: next dollar instead of going to Starbucks this week. You know,

362
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 1: what would five dollars a day do in terms of

363
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 1: visually we can show you visually what would it do

364
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,440
Speaker 1: in terms of your debt pay down, both your timeline,

365
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,399
Speaker 1: your costs and how can we set you up for

366
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,600
Speaker 1: a better future. And so I think that's one thing

367
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: we can do is offer technological solutions. And the other

368
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 1: thing we can do is partner with employers, right because

369
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 1: as with many other great issues of the day, like

370
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:38,159
Speaker 1: retirement savings, employers have a role to play in supporting

371
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 1: their employees. How do you see businesses and employers playing

372
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: a bigger role here and how could that also impact

373
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 1: the choices that students are prospective students make about how

374
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 1: to access education. Yeah, so I think it's a great question.

375
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I think this is you know, for those

376
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 1: who aren't that excited about the current approach, I think

377
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 1: the government is take ging. You know, one of the

378
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,919
Speaker 1: concerns is this moral hazard issue of our people going

379
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: to make choices about their education that they're then going

380
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,479
Speaker 1: to expect to be forgiven by the government, and therefore,

381
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: will they make choices that maybe aren't the best choices

382
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 1: for them? And then similarly, will the costs go up

383
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: because the schools know that they can access this incremental funding.

384
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: So I think this is a real challenge that I

385
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: think we're poised to help with in a couple of ways.

386
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,719
Speaker 1: I mean, number one, there's more legislation if you can

387
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 1: imagine coming down the pike um in the Secure Act

388
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 1: two point oh, you know, sort of on the table

389
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: later this year. That's talking about tax incentives for businesses

390
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 1: to help potentially even with a match where you link

391
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: a four own K and student loan management. So imagine

392
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 1: if I'm an employee and I can't access my company

393
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 1: match for retirement because I'm paying down debt from my

394
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,680
Speaker 1: student loan and I just don't have an incremental dollar

395
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 1: to save, Well, here's an opportunity for the government to

396
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 1: step in and say, Okay, whether you save by paying

397
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: down your debt or whether you save by putting a

398
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 1: dollar in your four own k, either way your employer

399
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,919
Speaker 1: can met match that contribution. And that's a really powerful

400
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 1: way for employers to be able to channel dollars where

401
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: they're going to best serve their employees. What would be

402
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 1: your message to you know, rising freshmen right now who

403
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: are considering a college education, who have you know, you know,

404
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 1: innumerable online learning options now available to them, and companies

405
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: that are reducing degree requirements. So you know, you've got

406
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: some people out there saying I don't need a four

407
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 1: year degree. I think it's true that there's no one

408
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: size fits all. I mean, I think on averaging over time,

409
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:38,879
Speaker 1: education has helped to lead to better outcomes, you know,

410
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: for society. So but I think we could talk about

411
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: whether that education is about starting young and preschool and

412
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: getting out of the gate stronger, or whether it's about

413
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 1: a four year college. I think the idea that you know,

414
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 1: there are vocational programs and other ways to go about

415
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,400
Speaker 1: it are true. But all of these things have costs

416
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 1: and each has a different r O. I So I think,

417
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: you know, regardless of the path and into visual chooses

418
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 1: because there are many paths, and I agree they're kind

419
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: of more varied than they were perhaps you know a

420
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 1: generation ago. Um, there still is going to be this

421
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,679
Speaker 1: problem of people need to borrow to fund any of

422
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: these whether it's vocational school or whether it's a four

423
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: year college. They're borrowing. Sometimes they're not finishing their degree,

424
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: they're borrowing for that and these are costs that then

425
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: they need to understand how to tackle right. And that's

426
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: really the problem we're seeking to solve is how do

427
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: we help employees who have taken on this debt? How

428
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 1: do we help them tackle this debt in the most

429
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 1: responsible way to give them the best personal long term outcome?

430
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 1: All right? Uh, Sarah Leav CEO of Betterment, Thanks for

431
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: waging in what has been a raucous debate. Appreciate it. Okay,

432
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: Coming up, could the future of textbooks be n f

433
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: T s. We're gonna ask Pearson CEO Andy Bird about

434
00:24:50,280 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 1: that and more. Next, this is Bloomberg. This week we're

435
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: focusing on education technology and how innovation in this field

436
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: is fueling a new way of teaching and learning. And

437
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: in today's Crypto report, we're talking about how n f

438
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,719
Speaker 1: t s could change the game when it comes to textbooks.

439
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: Like to take a deeper dive into all of that

440
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: with Andy Bird's CEO of Pearson, one of the world's

441
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: largest textbook publishers. So, Andy, I remember buying a lot

442
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: of very heavy, very expensive textbooks. Can you explain to

443
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: me how n f t s could change this industry? Oh? Hi,

444
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 1: am Luke and thanks very much for having me on

445
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 1: your show. I remember those days as well, of the

446
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: heavy textbook and a pisson. We're very much leaning into

447
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: digital technology as as a way forward, and in fact,

448
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: now if you subscribe to Pier some plus, you'll be

449
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: able to get those textbooks for just a month and

450
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 1: it's it's one example of how we as a company

451
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: are really looking at technology to move the whole industry,

452
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: in the whole sector forward. I think the pandemic acted

453
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: as an accelerator in terms of really transforming the world

454
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: of education and the world of learning. Per your earlier

455
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: discussion with Sarah, and in that regard, I've been really

456
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 1: interested in how technology and how Pierson can utilize technology,

457
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: both in terms of n f t s, nonpuntual tokens

458
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: and blockchain, but the notion of having a transparent ledger

459
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: and the impact that would have on authors and royalties,

460
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: for example. I think it's very very interesting. It also

461
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: allows us to deconstruct the textbook, and you know, once

462
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 1: the textbook is in digital form, you can look at

463
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: ways as offering not just text by the chat to say,

464
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: but also video. You see some of the examples on

465
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: screen now is some plus you know, a lot of video,

466
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: a lot of animation, a lot of graphics, a lot

467
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: of audio suddenly starts to come into play as you

468
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: look at the way that learning and textbooks are evolving,

469
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: and so as a company, I think it's very important

470
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: that we're sort of trying to lead research and development

471
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: in that space, and that's what we're doing. So give

472
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: an example of how a textbook could be an n

473
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: f T and how that could survive, you know, past

474
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,920
Speaker 1: be passed on to multiple students, and how Pearson could

475
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 1: still potentially profit from it even if we're talking you know,

476
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 1: three or four students down the line. Like I used textbook, Yeah,

477
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 1: I think think of a textbook a modern digital textbook

478
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: curve comprising of various learning modules. So where in the

479
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: past in the analog world you had chapters and illustrations

480
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: and pictures, in the future, those chapters are broken down,

481
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: as I said, into different learning modules. The creator of

482
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: those learning modules could in theory, meant that learning module

483
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 1: as an n f T and therefore not only get

484
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 1: paid by Pearson if that's an author. There's a really

485
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,719
Speaker 1: interesting angle in terms of users generated content and all

486
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: of this. By the way, but the the the the

487
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: the author or the creator of that content. It could

488
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: be a video, it could be in a take a

489
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: form of audio. Would then be able to participate as

490
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: that learning module is utilize down the blockchain as it

491
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: were in the blockchain acts as that transparent ledger and

492
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: make sure that everyone gets paid an appropriate amount of money.

493
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: It actually I think could lead to greater accessibility and

494
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: affordability for education as you look more globally now Carmel's fashion.

495
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: But um, as much as I didn't like carrying those

496
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: textbooks around, I still like a paper textbook. I like

497
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: reading a physical uh you know, a physical newspaper, physical book.

498
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: I like underlining it, folding down the pages. Is there

499
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: a place for that in the future. Absolutely absolutely, And

500
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: we we still give you the option to get that

501
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: that printed textbook and will continue to invest behind those.

502
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: You know. As an analogy, I like the music industry,

503
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: recorded music industry, and if you think of the textbook

504
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: has been the vinyl record, and then the e text

505
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: as being the CD, and then in music of course

506
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: you had MP three players and now you have the

507
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: likes of Spotify and Title and others where you pay

508
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: a subscription for access to forty million songs in the

509
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: Board of Education. Up until recently, we've kind of been

510
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: stuck in the c D. And I think the great

511
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: opportunity is, Yeah, you can still buy the vinyl record,

512
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: you can still buy your textbook. But the great opportunity

513
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: is how we utilize technology. You know, we mentioned blockchain.

514
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: I think augmented reality virtually reality is going to play

515
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: very important and significant part in parts of education going forward.

516
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: And so what really excites need the leading person at

517
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: this moment in time is all of these great opportunities

518
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: to really harness you know, the great technological innovations that

519
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: have happened in other sense, sectors like music, like entertainment,

520
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: the introduction of five G, having the ability to store

521
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: everything on the cloud, the way that devices are developing,

522
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: both in terms of mobile phones and the like, and

523
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: bringing all of those together to make learning more accessible

524
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: and more affordable to more people. Because through learning and

525
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 1: learning throughout your lifetime, of course, we all we all

526
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: improve ourselves and our economic outlook of society. How are

527
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: you thinking about the metaverse and how that could potentially

528
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: impact the textbook industry? Obviously it's early days. Well, a

529
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: couple of examples I'm in Los Angeles, you're in San Francisco,

530
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: and we could both be in the same classroom together

531
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: in the metaverse, and we can participate in experiments. We

532
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: could go up to the white board and and uh

533
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: annotate each other's notes. We could both at the sort

534
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: of click of a button, be transported back to ancient

535
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: Greece and be in a Greek theater watching a Greek play,

536
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: or immediately then transported into the deep you know, Amazon jungle,

537
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: or inside a cell structure, or if you're a medical student,

538
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: look at procedures and be able to practice surgical procedures

539
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: without having to use you know, real bodies as it

540
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: were so many many applications. Again, I think, you know,

541
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: for an urban you know, in K through twelve, the

542
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: ability to open the eyes and open the world to

543
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: those students who previously have never had the opportunity to

544
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: go and visit some of these places in the world

545
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: and to to have some of those experiences. I think

546
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: the meta versus a really really interesting use of technology

547
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,239
Speaker 1: to enable that. Fascinating how much has changed since I

548
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: went to school and how much could continue to change.

549
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: Andy Bird's EO of Pearson appreciate you sharing that vision

550
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: with us pleasure. Now as some analysts are raising the

551
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: alarm about the downturn worsening, one company says that despite

552
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: all the talk of layoffs and fears of a recession,

553
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: they have found evidence to the contrary. While Seem Daher

554
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: is the founder and CEO of Pilot, and accounting firm

555
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: for startups and small businesses that specializes in CFO services, bookkeeping,

556
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: tax prep, he joins me, nowt here in the studio

557
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: with more on their data. So there's a lot of

558
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 1: women do out there. You know, we've had guests on

559
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: the show who said there's going to be millions of

560
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 1: layoffs in tech. We just saw a snap and now

561
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: it's a cut across the board. What are you seeing

562
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: that tells you it's not so gloomy. That's a great question.

563
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: And you know, we we sort of saw the same

564
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 1: stuff in the market, all the VC memo as all

565
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 1: the headlines. We said, let's take a look at the data.

566
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: And so for us, we're the largest startup accountant in

567
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: the United States. We have thousands of customers. We've processed

568
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: a hundred billion dollars of accounting transactions last year. We said,

569
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: what is the data show, and what we did is

570
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: we took a look at about a thousand of our

571
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: customers and two kind of key data points emerged. The

572
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: verse was that in June we found that of them

573
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: actually maintained or even increased head count. And then from

574
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: a revenue growth perspective, Q one definitely was a bit

575
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: soft for folks, but we saw to choose revenue growth

576
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: to be actually very comparable to late so indicators are

577
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: actually looking pretty good for this kind of early mid

578
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: stage startup segments. Okay, so what's the discrepancy in the numbers.

579
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: That's a great question. And I think here's what's going on,

580
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 1: which is especially in the early and mid stage. I

581
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: think two things are happening. Of first is that there's

582
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: definitely pain from the downturn, but I think it's more

583
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:08,279
Speaker 1: specifically and more pronacade felt by companies that really have

584
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: nice to have offerings as supposed to really need to

585
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: have offerings. And the second is, I think the dynamics

586
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: and kind of late stage in public markets are very

587
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: different than what you see in the earlier kind of

588
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: mid stage ecosystem for startups. Okay, well, let's take Snap

589
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: as an example. Cuts we also reported that Metas cutting

590
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: off hundreds of contractors alphabets in the middle of a

591
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: hiring freeze Apple. I talked to Tim Cook. You know,

592
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 1: they're going to pull back on some hiring and spending

593
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: plans going into next year. He said, they're being very

594
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: deliberate about their spending. Wouldn't it be a more difficult

595
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: world for startups that are relying on, you know, whatever

596
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: they have in the bank to survive, and many of

597
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: which aren't profitable. Yeah, so, I mean, you definitely think so.

598
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: But I think the thing that's interesting is, let's say

599
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 1: you're a startup. You're targeting in a sixty billion dollar

600
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: market and because of the downturn, maybe it's now only

601
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: a forty billion dollar market. But you're concerned about getting

602
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: from point oh five percent adoption to point one percent adoption.

603
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: You're not running into the ceiling, whereas you know, these

604
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 1: public companies absolutely are. When there is a twenty or

605
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: thirty percent reduction, they're going to feel that in the financials.

606
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: Your business is interesting, and I wonder what sort of

607
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: trends you're seeing in your own business in the downturn.

608
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: Are more companies turning to outsourcing with services like yours

609
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: rather than having these systems internally because they're trying to

610
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: limit their own internal headcount. Absolutely. I think there are

611
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: kind of two phenomenons were observing. One is, folks that

612
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: might have built the function in house are more interested

613
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: in the flexibility of relying on an external provider. And

614
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: the second is I think the tone has changed among

615
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: startups where in one you know it's really the era

616
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: of growth at all costs. Now it's look, you need

617
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 1: to know your metrics, you need to know the KPIs.

618
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: You have to be really sharp on the numbers, and

619
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 1: lots of folks come to us to just to better

620
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: handle on those steps. How are you handling the downturn internally?

621
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 1: I mean, how are you making decisions? Do we maintain headcount,

622
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 1: do we continue to hire, do we make cuts? So

623
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: one of the things we feel really strongly about is

624
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: the amount of money you spend cannot be a function

625
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: of how much you have in your bank account. You

626
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 1: sort of have to earn the right to spend it.

627
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: There's this concept called the burn multiple, which is the

628
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: amount of new recurring revenue you add any given period

629
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: and its relation to your burn rate. That those need

630
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: to stay in lockstep. So for us, we think about

631
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: how those ratios look, and then we also try to

632
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: pre compute a little bit. Look, if revenue trends in

633
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,479
Speaker 1: way X, this is what we'll do. If revenue trends

634
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: in way why, this is what we'll do, so that

635
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 1: we don't have to be surprised if as the situation changes.

636
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: Some of your investors Sequoia Bezos expeditions. What are they

637
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: telling you you got any advice from Jeff Bezos. Jeff

638
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: Bezos has not given me a call. I'm still waiting

639
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 1: for the call its X from Jeff. It's been It's

640
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: been interesting because I think the dynamics are highly variable

641
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: depending on what the company is up to. One of

642
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: the things that we like at Pilot is you have

643
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 1: to do your accounting. I mean, even in tough economic times,

644
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: you're not gonna just not do your tax return. So

645
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 1: we were hoping, or we feel that our business is

646
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: more recession proof or downturnmproof than the average. Does a

647
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,719
Speaker 1: more hawk ish fed uh change things for you and

648
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: your own business. You know, it's interesting because I think

649
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: the public market dynamics, you know, we're many many years

650
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: away from being a public company and I think for

651
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: the companies we serve, we're really in the private markets.

652
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: There are down rounds, there are layoffs, there is belt tightening,

653
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: there are companies making hard decisions about their priorities. I

654
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: think it's absolutely true, and I think you sort of

655
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: need to kind of keep that hawkish eye on what's

656
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: happening in your bank account, your current runway now more

657
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: than ever, because, as you said, access to capital is

658
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: definitely comparatively limited. So as you look ahead over the

659
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: next year, what are some of the questions you're gonna

660
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 1: be asking the companies that you're working with to give

661
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: you clues about how the market is changing, Like, maybe

662
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: this is what the data says now, but maybe it's

663
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: there's a delay. Sure, Yeah, I think we look at

664
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 1: a couple of things. One is our CFO services team

665
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: works very closely with a bunch of our customers who

666
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 1: helped them build out their own financial models, their own forecasts,

667
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 1: they're on budget. I think we'll also see really good

668
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: data about what happens in fundraising markets. There's a lot

669
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: of kind of pent up dry powder at BC firms.

670
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: It is not currently being deployed. I think depending on

671
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: sort of when that starts to get released into the market.

672
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: I think we will see potentially very different results. Seager,

673
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: CEO and founder of Pilot. Thank you for joining us

674
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 1: and good to see her in person. Thank you for

675
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 1: having me. All Right, that does it for this edition

676
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Technology. Coming up Thursday, We've got Crowdstrikes CEO

677
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 1: George Kurtz. He'll join us to talk about the state

678
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 1: of cybersecurity, whether that is recession proof. And don't forget

679
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: to check out our podcast wherever you get your podcasts.

680
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 1: I'm Emily checking in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg