WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 110 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:02.880 Foll Zone Media. 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:05.800 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:09.480 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.559 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.400 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.920 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:20.800 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:22.639 there's got to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:31.840 you can make your own decisions. Oh man, welcome back 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:36.120 to it could happen here a podcast about it meaning 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:41.800 bad things happening here, meaning you know here. Obviously, here 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:44.040 at cool Zone, we have a little bit of a 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:47.080 habit of talking about colts. Some of you who have 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:49.440 been listening to Behind the Bastard since the beginning will 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:52.920 remember how we kind of started that series with several 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:57.400 long episodes about a guy named Keith Ranieri. And today 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:00.920 we're here to talk with a wonderful author and journalist, 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:03.760 Sarah Berman, who has written both about the next sim 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.640 cult and about a new cult that some of you 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:09.560 are probably familiar with if you if you caught the 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.840 recent Netflix documentary Prime has a documentary out too on 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.720 the Twin Flames cult, and so we're going to introduce 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:19.960 why this is such an interesting cult, why it's kind 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:25.560 of groundbreaking. But first, Sarah, welcome so much to the show. Graham, Hey, hey. 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:28.560 So good to be here. Thank you for inviting me. 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:33.000 Yeah, Sarah, your book is called don't call it a cult, 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.640 wonderful book about the next sim cult. And yeah, you were. 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.640 You are kind of the person who first I'm not 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:41.399 sure if you're the very first person to ever report 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:43.520 on twin Flames, but you're certainly the person who broke 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:46.559 the story in a in a meaningful and detailed way. 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:49.800 How did you well? First off, we shul probably start 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.680 with how would you describe twin Flames to people? 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:53.880 Right? 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.840 So, twin Flames Universe began as sort of a YouTube 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:01.800 channel and a Facebook group that was all about finding 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:05.320 true love. So this group promises not only that you 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.000 find your true love, but also that you will find 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:12.800 career fulfillment and enlightenment and basically everything good will happen 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.800 to you. Miracles will happen only if you spend thousands 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.760 of dollars on their coursework and keep up with their 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:23.480 sort of spiritual homework, which is a never ending treadmill. 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:29.079 And eventually it sort of becomes, you know, an all 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.440 powerful control over people's lives, where they go, who they 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:37.040 interact with, even their life partner, even their gender identity. 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:41.640 So yeah, lots of people calling it a matchmaking cult. 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:46.200 Yeah, it's a matchmaking I mean. One of the things 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.720 that I think is interesting to me about the kind 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.960 of like rhetoric of the cult leaders, and this is 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:53.800 one that there do seem to be kind of two 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:57.880 people heading it up a couple, is the idea that 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:04.600 like they have the ability to see who someone's soulmate is, 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:08.080 and like that's a that's kind of a it both 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.360 sort of. I think the Appeals has speaks to, among 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:13.480 other things, kind of the deep loneliness that a lot 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.120 of younger people feel, you know, as we're dealing with 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:20.120 this kind of increasingly closed off, isolated nature of society, 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.840 especially since COVID, as well as kind of mixing that 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.360 with some of these you know, much longer standing older 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:31.600 cult traditions in a way that felt really really interesting 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:34.600 to me and also like something that could only exist now. 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:40.000 Yeah, totally, Yeah, there's so much to impact there. So 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.720 in their early days in twenty fourteen, this couple Jeff 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:47.040 and Shelia. I mean Shellly is actually a Megan, but 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:51.680 Shellia is the name she arrived at through some conscious journeying. Sure, 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:55.280 they have these videos where they just met and they 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.680 are in love and they are making eyes at each other, 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.000 and this is something to attain. It was sort of 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:05.640 started as this, you know, romantic YouTuber content, and then 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:09.040 they start selling Yes, you can have this too. All 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.920 you have to do is buy our you know, coursework 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.400 and whatnot. And I think it does speak to, especially 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.520 during the pandemic, a sort of deep dark loneliness in 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:23.599 isolation that's happening where people are enticed by this couple 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:27.000 who they're just regular, you know, Michigan white people. 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:29.920 They're making eyes at each other. 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:34.200 Doesn't look like anything special to an outsider, but clearly, 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.160 you know, thousands of people have sort of. 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:37.080 Lashed on to it. 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:41.640 Have have, you know, hoped that this secret knowledge that 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:45.120 this group is giving them, you know, will bring them happiness. 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.960 And because it's sort of an all encompassing ideology where 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.280 if you even question the group, well then you are 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.200 definitely never going to see your life partner and we'll 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:57.440 probably see hell at some point. 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:57.760 In your life. 0:04:57.960 --> 0:04:58.200 You know. 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:02.280 It just creates this perverse incentive to just keep pouring 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:06.320 time and effort into this group in a way that yeah, 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:10.839 I don't think could exist in any other timeframe, especially 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:11.680 not through Zoom. 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:13.320 Right, So most of these. 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:17.520 Classes that they sell are happening on Zoom, just like 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:20.520 you and I are on today, So that you know, 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:24.560 Naxium could never achieve, right, this group has achieved a 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:29.120 level of you know, connection and I don't know, just 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:32.839 getting into people's brain stems through a laptop screen, which 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:34.960 is incredible for our time. 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:37.240 Yeah, it's very I mean again, this is part of 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:40.520 what's so modern about it is that it appears to work 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:45.000 entirely like cults, and particularly cult leaders tend to be 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:48.360 such social phenomena. This is nearly always a thing that 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:52.200 involves person to person contact, and in fact, one of 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.240 the things any cult expert will tell you is a 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.520 hallmark of a cult is it's the focus it puts 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.880 on isolating members and perspective, members away from their friends 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:02.720 and their family and keeping them under the power of 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.560 the cult leader at all times. And this is very 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.200 People are not all together, they're not all living in 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:13.479 one area, They're geographically isolated. The dynamics that this reproduces 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:18.240 itself with our parasocial dynamics, the same dynamics podcast listeners 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:20.320 have with like like like you know, it's a more 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:22.720 extreme version of that, but it's part of this thing 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:26.240 we see with twitch streamers, we see it with like YouTubers, 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:29.560 this kind of And it solves one of the mysteries 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:31.320 because I've watched this stop with a couple of friends 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.360 who kept being like, well, these people don't seem charismatic, 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:36.720 they don't seem this doesn't seem like, it doesn't seem 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:38.760 like they could be attaining this. 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:40.159 Degree of control over people. 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.119 And I think part of what explains that is just like, well, 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.680 someone may not seem charismatic when you're watching little clips 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:49.159 of them in a documentary, but when they're in your 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:52.279 ears and you know, on calls with you and stuff 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:57.839 all day every day, your body builds up like they 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.640 get through your defenses that way. Like that's how parasocial 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:01.840 relationships kind of work. 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:06.640 Absolutely, Yeah, you just have the binging quality of how 0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:10.160 people consume media these days. And it's the same for 0:07:10.360 --> 0:07:14.720 you know, YouTube rabbit holes that radicalize sort of right 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:19.360 wing white men. So it's the same process these folks 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.720 who I was speaking to, they were consuming up to 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:27.120 ten even fifteen hours of this content per day, and 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.000 they were feeling like they had to keep up with 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:35.120 that just to maintain their coaching title or what have you. So, yes, 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:39.120 they have Jeff inside their head at all times. 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.000 They start speaking like him. 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:45.800 You know, you can kind of tell when an still 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:50.600 involved member emails you that it sounds just like the leaders. 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:59.760 It is a yeah, fully saturating, indoctrinating process, and I guess, yeah, 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:04.320 you don't have to be particularly charismatic in person to 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:09.120 achieve that kind of saturation when you have the YouTube algorithm. 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:09.640 You know. 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:14.960 Unfortunately, my YouTube algorithm is also ruined, so up on 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.360 YouTube is looking pretty. 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:20.080 It's yikes these days. 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:24.080 No, I actually discovered a really effective method of for 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.240 my own research in various cults, which is I just 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:31.600 used my roommate's YouTube premium account, So I have ruined 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.880 his life. But it's not a problem for me. So 0:08:35.080 --> 0:08:37.280 it's it's worked out really well, is what I'm saying. 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:39.760 I mean, I might try that solution, but I live 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:41.880 with my you know, partners, so. 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:45.560 You might not appreciate that. We'll see how it goes, though. 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:50.160 I'm kind of curious, how did you get on this story, 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:52.280 Like what was what was your backstory there? 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.600 Yeah, so I was in the depths still of reporting 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.760 on Nexium. I don't believe the sentencing for Keith Ranieri 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.400 had happened yet at that point. So this was late 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:07.360 twenty nineteen early twenty twenty. One of the mothers was 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:09.520 the first to reach out to me, and she had 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:13.880 two daughters who are featured in the Netflix series in 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:17.040 the group, and she had told me that she was 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.400 cut off from all contact, that the only contact she 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:22.720 did have with one of her daughters was when she 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:27.480 sent thousands of dollars. And so that to me right away, 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.880 like you said, you know, isolating people from their family 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:35.720 members who might you know, raise questions or you know, 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:39.280 want to know more about what's happening, asking for money 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:44.160 so blatantly, you know, in denying contact based on an 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:48.720 amount of money sent, that all sounded pretty bad to me, 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:53.880 and so I started looking into it. That mom pointed 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:58.080 me towards Elle, who is also featured in the Netflix series. 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:02.920 She's also Katie in the A Vanity Fair piece that 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:06.280 later came out after our reporting, and it just sort 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:10.240 of snowballed from there. I'll put me in touch with 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.160 I would say half a dozen ex members. At that point, 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:17.640 some different mothers started contacting me because they all were 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.000 sort of in a group chat trying to figure out 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:26.360 how they could re establish content contact with their mostly daughters. 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.840 That was my origin story. We put out a piece 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.720 fairly quickly. I tried to get it out within a 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.520 month or two of that first contact. 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.520 Yeah, well that makes a lot of sense, and I 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.160 want to continue talking about this. We'll get into a 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:44.040 lot more, but first it's time for an ad break. 0:10:44.240 --> 0:10:49.040 So here we go, ah, and we're back Mia. Did 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:51.680 you have anything you wanted to move into next? 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:53.120 Yeah. 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:55.280 So there are some parts of this that are very 0:10:55.320 --> 0:11:00.040 familiar in the sense of the combination of Christianity and 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:04.240 weird New Age spiritualism stuff I think is a pretty 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.760 old combination. I mean, the mood is very famously sort 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:09.440 of pioneered this thing, and you know, you can go 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.480 back to eight hundreds and find versions of it. The 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:17.720 thing that I think is interesting about it is the 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.880 way that they've effectively been doing conversion therapy on people, 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.560 and I don't know, this is something I haven't really 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:29.720 seen before. From a cult, and I guess, I guess 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:33.000 I think the way into this is talking about the 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:37.439 sort of divine masculine, divine feminine stuff. 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:39.480 For sure. 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:44.000 Yeah, I agree that this seemed new and you know, 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:48.400 sort of bizarre to me. And certainly I've already seen 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:53.839 on Twitter some right wing takes on it that give 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:57.839 me a lot of uncomfortable feelings because they're obviously taking 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:02.440 the wrong opposite lesson. You know, when I guess, when 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.760 I watched this, I see, see you can't tell someone 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.760 what their gender is. You know, it doesn't work, It 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:13.800 falls apart, it doesn't make sense. But I think, yeah, 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:18.160 something that's been taken away in some smaller circles is that, 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:22.680 oh see, you can coach someone to change their gender, 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:27.679 and that's you know, blame teachers, blame whoever for doing that. 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.840 So this particular group does have. 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:37.319 A divine masculine and divine feminine teaching that used to. 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:39.520 Be a little more flimsy. 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.679 So in the early days, they just said, if you're 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.480 in a queer couple, it just means one of you 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.360 has the more wearing pants vibe. You know, it wasn't 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:53.720 supposed to literally translate to a gender expression. 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:54.760 Or gender identity. 0:12:56.000 --> 0:13:00.360 But later on, when you know, you had this growing 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.520 amount of you know, sis women who are. 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:09.240 I mean, they're interested in finding. 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:13.000 Their man, and that's not happening because, you know, the 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.080 group makes it very hard to actually meet outside people. 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:21.360 If you're on this constant treadmill of doing spiritual homework, 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:23.640 you don't have time to meet you. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.120 People, and maybe when you talk about it, it's pushing 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:27.800 people away. 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:34.640 So eventually, in late twenty nineteen they started actually making 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.720 pairings and to get around the fact that you know, 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.160 folks said, well, that's not my you know, orientation, I'm 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:45.240 not attracted to women, they started actually telling people, well 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:49.280 that you're the divine masculine and actually, you know, you, 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:52.920 going back your whole life, probably knew this all along, 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.160 and we're just revealing something to you. 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:00.280 And that sat the wrong way in. 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:03.640 A lot of cases, and a lot of people left 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:10.120 around that time, but they successfully paired up I think 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.079 more than a dozen people around that time, and they 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:17.720 continued to do pairings into twenty twenty, and some folks 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:20.240 did come along on the journey. 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:21.440 They did in. 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:26.200 Some cases pursue top surgery and hormones and have changed 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.080 their names changed their pronouns. 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:31.720 It's yeah, it's not. 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.640 Obviously, there are moms who are just barely coming to 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.080 terms with this, and you know, they're not always using 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.640 the right language, and they're a little confused, you know, 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.280 and that confusion was often used as a reason to 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.400 cut off all contact, you know, say hey, mom, you're transphobic, 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.440 you know, and push them aside. And so I think 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.320 it is new in some sense, but it's also very 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.480 old in the sense that cults often create a brand 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.760 new identity for people, right, Like new names when you 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.600 join a cult is not a new thing. That that's 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:09.760 something that a lot of you know, and changing hair, right. 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.560 Shaving your heads, that's like one of the things exactly. 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:17.560 Yeah, So I mean this is I guess an updated 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:20.960 version where I mean it's kind of smart in a 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:25.200 way that like people might be afraid to question it, right, 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:29.120 Like you're hiding behind something that sounds very progressive and 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.600 very inclusive, and that's what a lot of cults do, 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:38.000 is they hide in very progressive spaces. But yeah, it's 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.440 a lot. It's a lot to take in, and I 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:44.160 definitely like to bring experts up to speed on this 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.320 and get their perspectives because I don't know everything, you know, 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:52.800 I can't possibly pretend to know what's in someone someone's 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.320 heart and mind and body, you know, at any time. 0:15:55.480 --> 0:16:01.000 So everyone is just working through it. Like one of 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:04.360 the experts in the documentary says, you know, some of 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:08.680 these folks could have been transmit all along, but the 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.240 way that they're being told to do it is concerning 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:13.200 to say the least. 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:15.880 Yeah, And I mean, I think there's some interesting stuff 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:18.240 with how they were able to do this, which is 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.840 even before they started force to be transitioning people, there 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:25.800 was this is I think the most trans people I've 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.760 ever seen in a cult like this, Like the number 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.360 of people who were trans going in was really high, 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:36.360 and I suspect that was how they were able to 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.120 sort of like like, you know, like one of the 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.000 people in the documentary was talking about how she was 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.640 like a transphoman. She was being basically like tokenized by 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:47.360 the group as this like hey, we're like trans inclusive thing. 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.880 And I wonder how much of the way they were 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:55.520 able to do this is from basically taking the firsthand 0:16:55.560 --> 0:17:00.520 experience of like actual trans people and then like using 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:04.440 that to try to convince people of this really weird 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:09.000 sort of essentialist, like we've decided that you're the divide 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.840 and masculine, so you have to transition to be a 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:12.480 man now. 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:13.920 Stuff. 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:18.600 The origin story of it is you're right in reaching 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:23.440 out to LGBTQ type communities. So folks like our Celia 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:26.080 who you see in the documentary, and also Jesse who 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:29.080 you see in the Netflix documentary, they were sent out 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:35.280 recruiting in queer spaces, so any type of queer Facebook group, Twitter. 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:36.560 User, you know, YouTuber. 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.640 They were in the comments there talking about their twin 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:43.280 Flame journey and talking about how queer. 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:44.320 Inclusive it was. 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.920 So they were actively doing that and it's fascinating to see. 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:52.040 You know, you can go back through Twitter history and find, 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:54.879 you know, how they were phrasing these things. You know, 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:58.560 like that was their job basically to do outreach for 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:02.000 the group in queer space is they also did lots 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:08.040 of PTSD spaces, former military spaces. You know, they really 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:11.040 like tried to find any slice of a person who 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:15.480 might need a community, who might be lonely and sort 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.000 of feed them into the group. And you're right, I 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.280 think if you have a bunch of queer, open minded 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:24.840 people in a space, there's a lot you can do 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.879 with you know, suggestion, There's a lot you can do 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:30.960 with a deck of tarot cards. It seems a lot 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.480 of these, you know, gender conversions started with a tarot 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.719 reading where they would just hold up a card that 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:43.560 represented them or their supposed partner and you know, sort 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.560 of building off of that. So it is it's new 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:50.600 and old in so many ways because yeah, you're just 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:57.280 using the divine to basically just dictate any aspect of 0:18:57.320 --> 0:18:59.680 someone's life. You know, what they eat, what they wear, 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:01.400 they go everything. 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.320 Yeah, and I mean it's also we're talking about like 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:10.800 how how much of this kind of plays on loneliness, 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:15.480 the fact that people are desperate for companionship, that particularly 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.880 younger people are like dating less or more socially isolated, 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:21.600 and like, if you want to push that up to 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:24.280 the nth degree, you take a group of people who 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:29.439 is under siege right now and so particularly having trouble 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:33.359 like being safely out and around people right like, you 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:37.480 give them what looks like it's a safe, welcoming community 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.679 that's supportive of them, and if especially they have not 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:45.440 had that, Yeah, it's it's I mean, it's deeply insidious 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:46.359 and evil. 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:50.880 I would say it's powerful stuff. I would say when 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:54.199 I go on the Facebook group. You know, I'm block now, 0:19:54.280 --> 0:19:57.640 but when I could, it would you know, show folks 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.920 really deep into a fantasy, you know, like they want 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:04.760 a perfect life for themselves where they are openly welcomed 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.439 with open arms, where the people that they care about 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.800 care about them back, you know, and that's often not 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:15.959 actually the case in their home life, but it seems 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.639 to be real on this Facebook page, and they think, 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:21.280 you know, if I just put in the work, this 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.439 will happen for me. That straight guy who I'm into 0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:27.560 is going to come around and see that we're twin flames. 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:31.360 And so yeah, it definitely also feeds into a bit 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.800 of fantasy and delusion. That's you know, I think maybe 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.400 a symptom of us being so isolated in our you know, 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.640 pandemic brain spaces. 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:48.679 Speaking of isolated shit, well, it's an AD, it's an 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:50.720 AD break. I don't I don't know how anything it 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:55.639 goes with that, But here's some ads. Ah, and we're back. Sorry, 0:20:56.080 --> 0:21:00.760 you've you've just encountered some of our classic incombatant AD transitions. 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:05.160 But what's not incompetent is your reporting on this subject 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:11.800 and I'm I'm curious as you realize how potentially a 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:14.439 lot of what's going on in this cult, with this 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:18.480 divine masculine divide feminine stuff, could, if not handled carefully, 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:23.000 play into some really pernicious culture war stuff that's going 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:26.240 on in the country right now. How do you kind of, like, 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:30.679 how consciously did you sort of work to avoid that? 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:36.360 Yeah, that is definitely something I'm worried about, is that 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:40.360 this could feed into some sort of culture war talking point. 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:43.640 And you know, you're seeing the seeds of that. If 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:46.760 you search Twitter very deeply, you can find it. I 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.399 guess X, I'm calling it Twitter. It's still Twitter to me. 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:50.800 Yeah, it's still Twitter. 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:52.840 It's only acceptable dead naming. 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:56.399 Speaking of dead naming. 0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:57.000 Yes, So. 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:01.440 I definitely wanted to be as careful as possible, listen 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:04.280 to trans people as much as possible, you know. 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:06.600 So that's why our Celia was one of. 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:10.320 The first folks that I talked to, And you know, 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:15.119 she had just such an interesting understanding of this because she, 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:18.240 you know, had transitioned before she came into this group, 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:20.840 and she was able to witness so much of the 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:24.879 coaching that was happening. And I'm just so grateful for 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.320 someone who goes through that ringer and still is able 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:32.880 to articulate what happened afterwards, because you know, not everybody 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:36.800 comes around to understanding it as deeply as she did. 0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:40.600 So that was my main, you know thing, was I 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:44.520 was going to listen to trans people and then yeah, 0:22:44.720 --> 0:22:48.200 I guess just trying to sort out what was the 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:51.840 ideology of the group, how that was being you know, 0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:59.280 I guess executed, and yeah, just trying to come from 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:04.199 this perspective that, yeah, nobody can tell you what your 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:06.800 gender is and this is actually an example of that. 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:09.320 It was hard to wrap my head around, and I 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:11.879 still worry about it. I'm still worrying about my words 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:12.720 kind of right now. 0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:16.240 Yeah, that was something in the documentary that like you 0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:21.600 could see the filmmakers kind of like you can you 0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:26.080 can see them kind of going back and forth between 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:30.200 wanting to use people getting top surgery as this kind 0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:35.320 of like shock factor thing, but then also like at 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:39.520 the same time being like wait, hold on, like this 0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:41.080 is you know, this is something that you can very 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:45.080 very easily like be a right wing transphobe and just 0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:47.639 like take a clip of and put on the internet 0:23:47.680 --> 0:23:49.480 and be like hey, like we need to stop gender 0:23:49.480 --> 0:23:50.879 clinics from being able to do this. 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:55.760 And I don't know. I think I. 0:23:55.640 --> 0:23:58.560 Think you've handled it pretty well, but I don't know, 0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:04.520 like this is this is something that is like I 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:06.639 think like one of the important things is like this 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:10.879 cult is ran by SIS people and this is you 0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:13.760 know what. I think it was a good decision for 0:24:13.800 --> 0:24:16.560 you to talk about it in terms of conversion therapy, 0:24:16.640 --> 0:24:22.240 because that's a lot closer to what's happening than people transitioning. 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:25.320 And you know, I mean like it's I don't know, 0:24:26.160 --> 0:24:28.760 like I would say. The thing that's complicated about it, 0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:32.120 right is you know you it's you can't talk. It's 0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:34.919 really really it's almost impossible to like talk to the 0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:38.600 people who are going through this and get an understanding 0:24:38.640 --> 0:24:40.920 of what their sense of their gender is. I mean, 0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:43.040 like I've I watched a couple of the videos that 0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:49.080 they made and like, I don't know, it's it's it's 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:54.760 really difficult to like it's it's it's easy to play 0:24:54.840 --> 0:24:56.800 arm tre psychologist with it, and I don't want to 0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:59.600 do that. And so yeah, I think I think you've 0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:02.560 been watch a difficult line, and yeah, I keep. 0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:03.600 My hands off that too. 0:25:04.000 --> 0:25:06.520 You know, like, I am not going to tell any 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:10.520 one of those folks, you know, Gabe Ray, what's going 0:25:10.560 --> 0:25:13.399 on in their brains and bodies. I just do happen 0:25:13.480 --> 0:25:18.520 to know about the systematic sort of coaching that they. 0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:20.119 Were, you know, exposed to. 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:23.360 So you know, for in the case of Jesse Hersey, 0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:27.600 she had months and months of coaching around letting go 0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:32.199 of her entire life, her entire identity starting over, let 0:25:32.280 --> 0:25:34.440 go of any image of what you think your twin 0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:38.040 flame could be, right, and so if you're doing that, 0:25:38.320 --> 0:25:42.600 you know, and eventually folks do sort of acquiesque. I 0:25:42.640 --> 0:25:46.480 think it's similar in a gender conversion coaching situation. Some 0:25:46.640 --> 0:25:49.840 people acquiesque, you know, they they get into a high 0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:53.399 pressure situation, they're being told who they are, They're being 0:25:53.440 --> 0:25:56.840 told there will be consequences if they. 0:25:56.800 --> 0:26:00.640 You know, go back to their normal queer selves. 0:26:00.760 --> 0:26:04.439 So that actually does get somebody to change, but in 0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:07.040 a beer based situation, so. 0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:08.840 I can speak to the coaching. 0:26:09.160 --> 0:26:12.000 But yes, I'm never going to be a person telling 0:26:12.119 --> 0:26:14.120 anyone what their gender. 0:26:13.920 --> 0:26:15.600 Is because we don't know. 0:26:16.600 --> 0:26:20.679 Hopefully, you know, they can break free of what I 0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:24.600 think is you know, pretty manipulative coercive practices and then 0:26:24.640 --> 0:26:26.720 they can tell us more about who they are. 0:26:27.800 --> 0:26:29.720 Yeah, And I mean I think the other thing I'll 0:26:29.720 --> 0:26:32.320 say about that is like, well, I mean we know 0:26:32.560 --> 0:26:34.760 just on a societal level, that it's possible to force 0:26:34.840 --> 0:26:37.480 people to live as a gender that they're not and 0:26:37.480 --> 0:26:41.679 to identify themselves as that gender by systematic social pressure. 0:26:41.680 --> 0:26:43.280 And we know this because this is the story of 0:26:43.359 --> 0:26:47.320 like every transperson who's ever lived, right and totally you know, 0:26:47.520 --> 0:26:52.399 and like it sucks, like it really fucking sucks, like 0:26:52.920 --> 0:26:55.720 having someone force a gender on you. And I really 0:26:55.720 --> 0:26:59.760 hope that these people, like I hope these people. 0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:00.240 Find and. 0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:06.280 Find who they are and you know, whatever form that takes, 0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:10.520 that they're not being coerced into it, because like, yeah, 0:27:10.520 --> 0:27:13.040 and this is something I think that was in I 0:27:13.080 --> 0:27:15.520 think it was in the Netflix documentary that people were 0:27:15.520 --> 0:27:18.600 talking about. This is like, you know, in terms of 0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:20.480 people who could understand what this is like, like I 0:27:20.480 --> 0:27:25.280 think other trans people are probably some of the only 0:27:25.320 --> 0:27:28.960 people in the world who actually do, like even sort 0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:30.679 of understand what it's like to be forced to be 0:27:30.880 --> 0:27:34.200 a gender if that you're not. And so yeah, I'm 0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:38.159 hoping that this develops in a way like of solidarity 0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:41.440 and not of weaponization by right wingers. 0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:44.240 But I mean, I think you guys have done all 0:27:44.640 --> 0:27:48.000 you could reasonably do to avoid that, like the culture 0:27:48.000 --> 0:27:49.879 war is going to do with the culture war does. 0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:55.320 I wanted to get into Keith Ranieri a little bit 0:27:55.520 --> 0:27:59.400 and kind of how what went on with the Nexium cult, 0:27:59.640 --> 0:28:01.800 because he's a friend of the pod over here. We've 0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:04.600 talked a lot about the details of what he got 0:28:04.680 --> 0:28:11.000 up to. He's obviously probably the biggest recent cult in 0:28:11.920 --> 0:28:14.600 the US, and like US popular culture at least, you know, 0:28:14.640 --> 0:28:16.960 there's a couple other a little bit of other competition 0:28:17.040 --> 0:28:20.240 for that title, but not a ton And yeah, I 0:28:20.240 --> 0:28:21.639 wanted to talk to you a little bit about how 0:28:21.680 --> 0:28:25.320 some of how people's awareness of that because like, obviously, 0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:27.959 given the media environment, all the people getting pulled in 0:28:28.600 --> 0:28:33.080 by the Twin Flames cult were aware to some extent 0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:35.679 of cult dynamics and probably of this story of this 0:28:35.800 --> 0:28:38.040 cult that is not unrelated. 0:28:39.280 --> 0:28:39.800 Definitely. 0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:43.280 Yeah, So there is a bit of stories colliding. When 0:28:43.320 --> 0:28:45.600 you write about cults, there's only so many of them. 0:28:45.960 --> 0:28:51.800 Inevitably stories start to cross over. So I was still, yeah, 0:28:51.920 --> 0:28:56.600 covering Vnexium trial, and you know, folloout sentencings when this 0:28:56.720 --> 0:29:00.120 story came across my desk, you know, and even the 0:29:00.160 --> 0:29:02.360 first person who talked to me about it was like, 0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:05.520 I think it's similar, you know, I think their practices 0:29:05.560 --> 0:29:08.280 are similar. And sure enough, I go and look at 0:29:08.280 --> 0:29:12.320 this mind alignment process and you're right, it's it's kind 0:29:12.320 --> 0:29:15.400 of similar to auditing, and scientology is kind of similar 0:29:15.480 --> 0:29:17.040 to you know, what Nexium was doing. 0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:18.760 So it's. 0:29:20.120 --> 0:29:24.280 Yeah, the tools of manipulation are common across many of 0:29:24.320 --> 0:29:28.720 these groups. And I would say, you know, not just 0:29:28.840 --> 0:29:32.840 ex members of Twin Flames, but even potentially the leaders 0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:37.160 of Twin Flames have studied other groups, including Nexium. There 0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:42.280 is the detail in the documentary that Jeff actually made folks. 0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:45.160 In the group write an essay about why Keith R. 0:29:45.240 --> 0:29:47.560 Nieri was a cult leader but why he was not one, 0:29:47.640 --> 0:29:51.720 based on watching the vow inseduced. So that's just, yeah, 0:29:51.760 --> 0:29:56.640 a world's colliding for me. But yeah, I think Nexium 0:29:56.760 --> 0:30:00.840 has in some ways brought a certain underst standing. So 0:30:01.760 --> 0:30:05.000 some of the sources I was talking to, yeah, had 0:30:05.000 --> 0:30:08.640 an understanding of how that worked. And you know what 0:30:08.720 --> 0:30:13.640 made that wrong, what made that coercion? Twin Flames doesn't 0:30:13.680 --> 0:30:17.560 have as many of the aspects as nexiums, so they 0:30:17.560 --> 0:30:21.880 don't have a blackmail program, right, there's no branding in 0:30:22.160 --> 0:30:26.280 twin Flames Universe. And you know their diet plan was actually, 0:30:26.520 --> 0:30:29.560 you know, load up on calories, right, So there's some. 0:30:31.320 --> 0:30:33.520 Various differences that. 0:30:34.040 --> 0:30:37.760 You know, maybe Jeff studied and thought he could fly 0:30:38.120 --> 0:30:39.280 under the radar with that. 0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:40.160 I don't know. 0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:43.320 I don't know Jeff's motivations. He has only sent me long, 0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:44.440 rambling emails. 0:30:44.440 --> 0:30:46.240 He has never agreed to an interview. 0:30:46.880 --> 0:30:54.200 But yes, there's so much commonality, including the lawsuits that 0:30:54.240 --> 0:30:56.479 came out of this. So when I reported on this 0:30:56.560 --> 0:31:03.120 in twenty twenty, immediately after our first story, twin Flames 0:31:03.200 --> 0:31:06.600 Universe sent a bunch of threatening letters to all of 0:31:07.800 --> 0:31:11.680 who they suspected was cooperating with my reporting. 0:31:11.920 --> 0:31:14.200 So this was a group of some thirty five people. 0:31:15.640 --> 0:31:18.360 I definitely didn't interview all of them, but they were 0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:22.360 suspected collaborators. And it basically said, if you do not 0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:26.760 retract your story within twenty four hours and write a 0:31:26.760 --> 0:31:31.560 public apology, we are going to publish very damning information 0:31:31.640 --> 0:31:36.720 about you, and we might pursue a lawsuit. And this 0:31:36.800 --> 0:31:43.680 letter was not signed by a lawyer, you know, sign legit. Yeah, 0:31:43.760 --> 0:31:47.920 in reporting on it, which we did, and of course 0:31:47.960 --> 0:31:52.120 nobody retracted. But sure enough, a couple months after that, 0:31:52.160 --> 0:31:57.000 they did file a defamation suit against I want to say, 0:31:57.000 --> 0:32:02.200 seven or eight members and one mom, and of course 0:32:02.240 --> 0:32:04.840 that got thrown out. But that's the next you and 0:32:04.920 --> 0:32:08.360 playbook is sue, sue folks until they don't speak to 0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:14.240 anyone anymore. Right, So it's a silencing tactic and it worked. 0:32:14.480 --> 0:32:17.760 It really shook people up. I definitely wanted to give 0:32:17.840 --> 0:32:22.400 people space after that. Yeah, it was definitely deja vus. 0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:26.320 I guess to see that many lawsuits because there were 0:32:26.360 --> 0:32:28.440 two separate ones booth thrown out. 0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:33.200 Yeah, I mean, and that's like something I've had to 0:32:33.240 --> 0:32:36.120 like coach some some younger journalists and stuff through too, 0:32:36.160 --> 0:32:39.240 because it's a favorite tactic of a lot of terrible people, 0:32:39.320 --> 0:32:42.360 like send out legal threats and like, this is not 0:32:42.480 --> 0:32:45.040 legal advice. You should always consult a lawyer. But the 0:32:45.160 --> 0:32:47.680 vast majority of threats like that that are sent out 0:32:47.880 --> 0:32:51.720 cannot be backed up to any realistic extent. Again, don't 0:32:51.720 --> 0:32:54.520 ever assume that always consult a lawyer about this sort 0:32:54.560 --> 0:32:57.120 of thing. But like the fact that somebody sends you 0:32:57.200 --> 0:33:00.200 a we're going to sue you or like a ease 0:33:00.240 --> 0:33:03.360 and desist. Does not mean they can actually hurt you, right, 0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:05.760 It just means like for a lot of people, that's 0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:07.560 like a go to sort of thing. 0:33:08.880 --> 0:33:13.240 Yeah, but it does evoke emotions in the. 0:33:13.200 --> 0:33:15.000 Netflix stuff, and it does mean you've got to reach 0:33:15.040 --> 0:33:16.760 out to a lawyer, which is scary, you know. 0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:22.200 Yes, yes, thankfully we had vice lawyers that on that one. 0:33:23.720 --> 0:33:24.360 But I don't know. 0:33:24.440 --> 0:33:29.000 In the Netflix documentary, Jeff actually names me, you know, 0:33:29.120 --> 0:33:32.680 and tries to intimidate me by name. And that was 0:33:32.720 --> 0:33:36.480 actually cut from a much longer video, And I have 0:33:36.560 --> 0:33:39.240 to say, when it first came out, it did make 0:33:39.280 --> 0:33:39.960 me want a cuke. 0:33:40.280 --> 0:33:42.880 Now when I see it in the series, it makes 0:33:42.920 --> 0:33:43.320 me laugh. 0:33:43.440 --> 0:33:47.280 But it Yeah, you can really intimidate someone with that stuff. 0:33:47.600 --> 0:33:50.360 Sure, I think we should probably end on kind of 0:33:50.400 --> 0:33:53.360 talking about where things are now, because again, if you've 0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:56.400 watched the documentary, I think the thing that was brought 0:33:56.440 --> 0:33:57.920 up to me by a couple of people I know 0:33:57.960 --> 0:34:00.200 who watched it was like, so, wait, there's so just 0:34:00.240 --> 0:34:02.600 out there doing it. You know, we're used to when 0:34:02.600 --> 0:34:05.360 stuff like this gets covered, they're being some sort of 0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:08.960 satisfying narrative arc. They've been charged, they're in you know, prison, 0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:12.960 they're on the run, but this like they're just continuing 0:34:13.000 --> 0:34:15.399 to do cult stuff. And I think part of like 0:34:15.840 --> 0:34:18.319 one of the things that is unfortunate. It's just I'm 0:34:18.320 --> 0:34:20.839 not a law expert, again, but just from what I'm 0:34:21.200 --> 0:34:23.600 looked at, it's not clear to me that they've broken 0:34:23.600 --> 0:34:25.160 a law in a way that's going to be easy 0:34:25.200 --> 0:34:26.000 to come after them for. 0:34:27.880 --> 0:34:28.280 Yeah. 0:34:28.360 --> 0:34:31.880 So this is the interesting thing about Twin Flames Universe 0:34:31.960 --> 0:34:35.160 is it does sort of straddle this line between you know, 0:34:35.400 --> 0:34:36.640 it's not nexium. 0:34:36.880 --> 0:34:39.200 They weren't clear up, they. 0:34:39.040 --> 0:34:42.840 Haven't abducted people, Yes, exactly. 0:34:42.400 --> 0:34:47.760 They haven't risen to that level. Although there are folks 0:34:47.800 --> 0:34:50.799 who are in this group who believe they were trafficked, 0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:54.279 which is an interesting perspective because they weren't able to 0:34:54.360 --> 0:34:58.200 choose the person that they were having sexual contact. 0:34:57.760 --> 0:35:00.040 With, that they didn't even get. 0:34:59.840 --> 0:35:04.600 To control when or how that sexual contact happened. It 0:35:04.600 --> 0:35:08.439 would take I think, you know, a very ambitious prosecutor 0:35:08.800 --> 0:35:12.200 to take on that kind of case. But back in 0:35:12.239 --> 0:35:16.160 twenty twenty, some of these moms were already calling you know, 0:35:16.239 --> 0:35:20.080 the FBI and the local Farmington Hills Police Farmington Hills 0:35:20.120 --> 0:35:23.759 has been like, this is not our jurisdiction. If anything, like, 0:35:23.840 --> 0:35:28.440 go to the FBI. We haven't heard any particular updates 0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:33.160 from that, you know case. Certainly folks have said things 0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:35.600 to me that sound a bit like fraud. You know, 0:35:35.760 --> 0:35:38.840 wire fraud is a very broad concept. I don't know 0:35:38.880 --> 0:35:41.200 if that's actually the case. I am not a lawyer, 0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:46.000 I'm not a prosecutor, but definitely I think the filmmakers 0:35:46.040 --> 0:35:51.360 behind the Netflix documentary in particular, think that this is 0:35:51.960 --> 0:35:54.759 up to the FBI. They should be taking action, and 0:35:54.800 --> 0:35:57.160 they want their documentary to spur that action. 0:35:57.920 --> 0:36:01.880 So yeah, we'll see what happens. 0:36:02.360 --> 0:36:06.240 I you know, am as I said, not an expert, 0:36:06.320 --> 0:36:09.359 not a lawyer, but certainly a lot of the things 0:36:09.360 --> 0:36:12.440 that I've heard about sound very concerning and very similar. 0:36:13.239 --> 0:36:16.960 Yeah, I mean and I yeah, it's tough because like 0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:20.360 I mean, I do I will say I would be 0:36:20.440 --> 0:36:24.160 shocked if there's not an active FBI investigation, purely based 0:36:24.200 --> 0:36:28.239 on how how popular the documentaries have been. Right like, 0:36:28.800 --> 0:36:31.719 that doesn't mean anything will actually happen, but at this 0:36:31.840 --> 0:36:34.839 point I would be shocked if they were not seriously 0:36:35.239 --> 0:36:38.560 looking into it. Just because it's like they're probably getting 0:36:38.560 --> 0:36:39.800 hassled by a bunch of people. 0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:45.640 Yes, and I mean it is a very culty thing 0:36:45.719 --> 0:36:49.320 that they also collect everything, you know, video of everything 0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:49.839 they've done. 0:36:51.000 --> 0:36:52.840 There's a lot to look into. Yeah. 0:36:53.480 --> 0:36:57.120 The Yes, the hard drive that one of the folks 0:36:57.120 --> 0:37:00.680 in the documentary named Keeley collected was really called the 0:37:00.760 --> 0:37:02.520 Holy Grail, right. 0:37:04.440 --> 0:37:05.120 Rynexium. 0:37:05.360 --> 0:37:09.719 For Keith Ranieri, his you know, damning evidence was called Studies. 0:37:10.120 --> 0:37:12.719 So I feel like this is the Studies hard drive. 0:37:12.880 --> 0:37:19.040 Yeah. In that case, Well, we'll continue to all look 0:37:19.440 --> 0:37:23.560 into this and excited to kind of see hopefully eventually 0:37:23.640 --> 0:37:27.200 some sort of justice being done, although that's always a 0:37:27.200 --> 0:37:32.680 lot to ask for out of the world. Yeah. Well, Mia, 0:37:32.719 --> 0:37:34.520 did you have anything else you wanted to get into. 0:37:35.440 --> 0:37:37.320 I think that's basically everything. 0:37:37.040 --> 0:37:40.760 Okay, And Sarah, did you have anything else you wanted 0:37:40.800 --> 0:37:42.600 to make sure to mention? 0:37:43.840 --> 0:37:45.920 Well, I would just like to mention that, you know, 0:37:46.160 --> 0:37:49.600 having a belief about something like a soulmate is not 0:37:49.680 --> 0:37:52.640 necessarily a bad thing. I don't want people to feel 0:37:52.680 --> 0:37:56.480 stupid for having weird beliefs. If you open your third 0:37:56.520 --> 0:38:00.239 eye and you know, believe your partner has been you know, 0:38:00.360 --> 0:38:02.160 in your dreams since birth. 0:38:02.560 --> 0:38:03.520 That's fine to me. 0:38:04.560 --> 0:38:07.759 I don't want to disparage that kind of persons. It's 0:38:07.800 --> 0:38:12.439 the systematic coersion that, you know, I'm particularly concerned about 0:38:12.480 --> 0:38:13.200 in my reporting. 0:38:13.440 --> 0:38:15.720 Yeah, but yeah. 0:38:15.640 --> 0:38:18.040 Maybe you could check out my book it's called Don't 0:38:18.080 --> 0:38:22.200 Call It a Cult about the Nexium Case. You can 0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:25.440 follow me on Twitter Sarah Burns b e r MS 0:38:26.600 --> 0:38:32.919 not X I'm dead naming Twitter again. Yeah, yeah, that's 0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:33.319 about it. 0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:36.360 All right, Well, everyone, that's been another episode of It 0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:40.360 Could Happen Here? Until next time. Why don't you go 0:38:40.520 --> 0:38:42.360 happen somewhere else? 0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:00.600 Welcome to It Could Happen Here? A podcast asked about 0:39:00.680 --> 0:39:03.200 stuff falling apart and how it can maybe come back together. 0:39:03.719 --> 0:39:07.720 I'm Garrison Davis. Joining me today is Mia Wong. 0:39:07.840 --> 0:39:12.719 Hello. Hello. So I don't know what this episode is about. 0:39:12.800 --> 0:39:15.879 I have been told the words David Graeber, and that's 0:39:16.000 --> 0:39:17.040 that's that's all I know. 0:39:18.400 --> 0:39:23.839 Gra Graber will will come up. So we've we've been 0:39:24.120 --> 0:39:27.439 we've had a lot of you know, upsetting stuff that 0:39:27.440 --> 0:39:30.000 that's been covered on the pod recently. It's it's it's 0:39:30.040 --> 0:39:31.560 not a it's not it's not a great time in 0:39:31.600 --> 0:39:34.440 the world. It's a lot of upsetting things happening, but 0:39:35.040 --> 0:39:39.000 I thought we we might get a small reprieve from 0:39:39.480 --> 0:39:42.799 all of the all of the uh real real world 0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:46.160 chaos and mayhem to talk about some fake world chaos 0:39:46.160 --> 0:39:50.319 and mayhem. And it's also the it's also you know, 0:39:50.440 --> 0:39:54.080 it's we are We are vastly approaching the holiday season, 0:39:54.440 --> 0:39:58.640 which means that I, I think next week am doing 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:02.399 my yearly bat Man Returns watch party, which I am 0:40:02.600 --> 0:40:05.600 extremely excited about. Is it's gonna it's gonna be a 0:40:05.640 --> 0:40:09.040 fun time, which is it's probably it's probably the best 0:40:09.080 --> 0:40:13.680 Batman movie. Oh no, it's just the aesthetics. The aesthetics 0:40:13.680 --> 0:40:14.760 are unparalleled. 0:40:16.000 --> 0:40:17.920 But I'm discovering what this episode is about. 0:40:18.239 --> 0:40:22.479 But there is another Batman movie that's also set during 0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:26.120 winter time, which is also also very political, because Batman 0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:30.120 Returns is weirdly political. We have the Penguin running for mayor. 0:40:30.440 --> 0:40:35.960 It exposes the the corrupt core of our political system. 0:40:36.120 --> 0:40:38.840 And there is another Batman movie, also set during winter 0:40:39.239 --> 0:40:43.520 that tries to expose the corrupt core of the political system, 0:40:43.760 --> 0:40:47.400 which is Christopher Nolans twenty twelves and Dark Knight Rises, 0:40:47.840 --> 0:40:51.719 a not very good movie which which. 0:40:51.520 --> 0:40:52.120 I think we have. 0:40:52.200 --> 0:40:55.319 We have referenced before because there's this one essay by 0:40:55.640 --> 0:40:59.600 one David Graber which really gets into the film which 0:40:59.640 --> 0:41:02.560 we're gonna which we're gonna get to. But the reason 0:41:02.560 --> 0:41:04.960 why I actually put together this episode, or I wanted 0:41:04.960 --> 0:41:06.799 to do this, is because when I was at the 0:41:06.840 --> 0:41:10.719 Ghost Conference earlier this year in Seaside, Oregon, as you 0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:13.280 can listen to that two parter which came out last Halloween, 0:41:14.239 --> 0:41:18.480 I got a whole bunch of old magazines from this 0:41:18.600 --> 0:41:23.320 conspiracy talk radio host. Now I love collecting old magazines. 0:41:23.680 --> 0:41:27.120 I find them endlessly fascinating. We have this one from 0:41:27.160 --> 0:41:34.320 two thousand and three called Mkzine oh No. On the cover, 0:41:34.840 --> 0:41:39.960 we have a mind control, ritual abuse and political implications, 0:41:40.239 --> 0:41:43.880 the cult of National Insecurity. I've not flipped through this 0:41:43.920 --> 0:41:47.200 one super in depth before because I'm more taken aback 0:41:47.560 --> 0:41:50.919 by the other magazine I got from twenty twelve called 0:41:51.080 --> 0:41:56.200 Paranoia the Conspiracy Reader. On this cover we have beyond 0:41:56.480 --> 0:42:02.280 MK Ultra Satellite Terrorism in America, science fiction or space Faction, 0:42:03.480 --> 0:42:09.240 oh No, And Dark Knight Kill Programming, which is obviously 0:42:09.280 --> 0:42:11.400 the one we're going to be talking about here today. 0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:13.359 No is this the Sandy thing. 0:42:13.680 --> 0:42:16.759 No, no, this is this is this will briefly get 0:42:16.800 --> 0:42:20.279 into the Aurora mass shooting because this comes up in 0:42:20.360 --> 0:42:22.200 this in this article, I'm not going to get too 0:42:22.239 --> 0:42:24.040 into that's actually not the focus. 0:42:24.719 --> 0:42:25.400 I think I'm realizing. 0:42:25.440 --> 0:42:29.160 I'm confusing my, I'm confusing your There's actually no twelve 0:42:29.200 --> 0:42:29.960 mass shootings. 0:42:30.120 --> 0:42:33.320 No, there's that because there there is actually a Alex 0:42:33.400 --> 0:42:37.520 Jones conspiracy that there was predictive programming in the Dark 0:42:37.560 --> 0:42:39.440 Knight returns or the Dark Knight Rises. 0:42:39.680 --> 0:42:42.719 That's what this is going to be about. Oh okay, okay, okay, Yes, 0:42:43.320 --> 0:42:46.279 this is by discount Alex Jones, Clyde Lewis, who lives 0:42:46.280 --> 0:42:46.560 in power. 0:42:46.719 --> 0:42:47.400 God damn it. 0:42:49.760 --> 0:42:52.160 Uh. There's there's some pretty fun stuff in this issue, 0:42:52.160 --> 0:42:54.640 which we might get too later at the end to 0:42:54.719 --> 0:42:57.359 kind of close out all of our political mamba jomba 0:42:57.400 --> 0:42:59.759 that we will actually get into as well. But I 0:42:59.880 --> 0:43:03.879 I want to first look at how conspiracy theorists read 0:43:03.920 --> 0:43:06.560 this movie and how they read the political aspects of 0:43:06.560 --> 0:43:09.120 this movie, because this movie is obviously very political if 0:43:09.120 --> 0:43:11.359 you've seen it. We will we will get into some 0:43:11.400 --> 0:43:13.880 of some of the stuff, but I want to I 0:43:13.920 --> 0:43:17.319 want to talk about how these conspiracy theorists saw this 0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:20.160 movie because the way that they do political analysis of 0:43:20.280 --> 0:43:25.080 media is very different from the way actual academics and 0:43:25.160 --> 0:43:28.520 people who take this stuff seriously do political analysis of media. 0:43:28.560 --> 0:43:31.399 And I think there's an interesting juxtaposition there. So this 0:43:31.480 --> 0:43:34.760 is this is the cover page for this story. 0:43:34.880 --> 0:43:41.320 The storm is coming. Oh no, no, says one already 0:43:41.320 --> 0:43:42.400 off from bands start. 0:43:42.719 --> 0:43:44.959 Yes, yes, all right, so I will read a little 0:43:44.960 --> 0:43:46.400 bit from this magazine and then we can kind of 0:43:46.400 --> 0:43:49.880 talk about it and then compare to uh. To our 0:43:50.040 --> 0:43:53.720 our colleague David Graeber, As I was watching Christopher Nolans 0:43:53.760 --> 0:43:56.760 The Dark Knight Rises, I didn't know the political substance 0:43:56.880 --> 0:43:59.480 right away, which is a great way to start this 0:43:59.600 --> 0:44:02.480 because the film is so obviously political. 0:44:02.600 --> 0:44:06.680 This this movie like real whoever? Like this movie like 0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:10.279 starts with Bain literally saying he's going to occupy Wall 0:44:10.280 --> 0:44:10.799 Street and. 0:44:10.880 --> 0:44:15.040 Like seizing below see this is Wall Street. This, this 0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:18.160 is this is what we will soon be debated. But anyway, 0:44:19.200 --> 0:44:22.279 I only saw it as a bit of predictive programming 0:44:22.600 --> 0:44:25.520 and a believable scenario as to how it might all begin. 0:44:26.200 --> 0:44:29.279 In The Dark Knight Rises, Catwoman as Slida Kyle and 0:44:29.400 --> 0:44:32.800 Batman as Bruce Wayne, are dancing at a socialight gathering 0:44:32.840 --> 0:44:35.800 when Selena purs in his ear. There's a storm coming, 0:44:35.880 --> 0:44:40.080 mister Wayne. As it turns out, The Dark Knight Rises 0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:43.440 is a damning indictment of the anti corporate movement and 0:44:43.480 --> 0:44:47.240 the threat of social chaos it poses. Despite rallying people 0:44:47.239 --> 0:44:50.040 around their deceased hero Harvey Dent, the rich are losing 0:44:50.040 --> 0:44:53.560 their grip on Gotham City. Antagonist Baine played by Tom Hardy, 0:44:53.800 --> 0:44:56.800 and his League of Shadows rise up against the bankers 0:44:56.840 --> 0:45:00.400 and the elite billionaires like Bruce Wayne, and attack Walsh Street, 0:45:00.719 --> 0:45:03.520 savagely beating the rich while promising the good people of 0:45:03.560 --> 0:45:09.000 Gotham that tomorrow you claim what is rightfully yours. Bain's 0:45:09.120 --> 0:45:13.120 organized violence against the wealthy evokes the reality of Occupy 0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:16.200 Wall Street, but Bain is no Robin Hood. He is 0:45:16.239 --> 0:45:19.680 plotting a massive transfer of wealth through stock exchange after 0:45:19.880 --> 0:45:23.400 inciting civil unrest and taking control of cutting age weapons 0:45:23.400 --> 0:45:26.520 technologies whose algorithm can be directly traced to Bruce Wayne, 0:45:26.840 --> 0:45:29.279 software which will avail them from the fortunes of the rich. 0:45:29.800 --> 0:45:32.040 As the war between the people and the police in 0:45:32.080 --> 0:45:35.640 the Dark Knight rises indicates the predictive programming of statistical 0:45:35.719 --> 0:45:38.839 data could very well undermine the one percent and send 0:45:38.840 --> 0:45:41.520 them into the streets where the disgruntled will eat them. 0:45:41.719 --> 0:45:45.239 Fraudulent practices will be exposed, identity theft, credit card fraud, 0:45:45.400 --> 0:45:48.200 securities fraud, and a number of other practices that the 0:45:48.280 --> 0:45:51.080 elite do in order to bilk the poor out of 0:45:51.120 --> 0:45:53.960 their money. This is one interesting thing about these sorts 0:45:54.000 --> 0:45:57.600 of kind of conspiracy radio guys, how they're both against 0:45:57.640 --> 0:46:01.600 the elite but also fundamental also for the elite. Like 0:46:01.920 --> 0:46:04.560 this film is celebrated as being you know, like it's 0:46:04.600 --> 0:46:08.800 deriding the anti corporate occupy movement, which they hate because 0:46:08.840 --> 0:46:11.080 they hate they would dislike, you know, a left wing 0:46:11.080 --> 0:46:11.960 popular uprising. 0:46:12.239 --> 0:46:13.520 But in the end they. 0:46:13.440 --> 0:46:19.160 Actually prefer this corporate like illuminati to the actual alternative. 0:46:19.600 --> 0:46:22.160 Well, and it's it's it's interesting too, like the ways 0:46:22.200 --> 0:46:25.839 that they think that like rich people exploit people is 0:46:25.880 --> 0:46:29.759 through like credit card fraud is like that that's how 0:46:29.800 --> 0:46:31.160 you think rich people get rich. 0:46:31.280 --> 0:46:34.520 Like really, like all right, we are almost at the 0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:38.359 end here. Christopher Nolan's epic sounds the alarm of the 0:46:38.440 --> 0:46:42.200 advent of an organized puppet master anarchy that plans to 0:46:42.200 --> 0:46:45.640 topple the government by exposing and gutting the fortunes of 0:46:45.719 --> 0:46:48.480 the elite. In real life, it might look like an 0:46:48.520 --> 0:46:52.360 occupy in the streets, sands and evil drums soundtrack pounding 0:46:52.400 --> 0:46:56.320 out the perennial battle between the haves and the have nots, 0:46:57.000 --> 0:47:00.560 while the Dark Knight rises acknowledges the systemic inequality and justice. 0:47:00.800 --> 0:47:03.399 It is not the rich, but anarchy that is the 0:47:03.440 --> 0:47:05.160 bane of Gotham's existence. 0:47:05.480 --> 0:47:05.960 It get it. 0:47:07.560 --> 0:47:11.279 Nolan portrays the occupy anti hero Bane as a demagogue, 0:47:11.360 --> 0:47:15.440 ultimately seeking to speculate on legitimate grievances. And when Baine 0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:17.720 or hands the reigns of power over to the people, 0:47:18.160 --> 0:47:20.640 they really won't know what to do with it, which 0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:22.600 is something that never happens in the movie. 0:47:22.640 --> 0:47:23.080 By the way. 0:47:23.200 --> 0:47:27.880 Oh now this is at this point Clyde Lewis stops 0:47:27.920 --> 0:47:31.480 talking to the movie and instead talks about this bit 0:47:31.560 --> 0:47:36.040 of predictive programming in the movie, which has a few 0:47:36.160 --> 0:47:39.600 kind of aspects. Then there is the intriguing subplot that 0:47:39.760 --> 0:47:42.399 seemingly seeped into reality on the eve of The Dark 0:47:42.480 --> 0:47:46.000 Knight Rice's release, that a software company takes its findings 0:47:46.040 --> 0:47:48.800 to the Supreme court and exposes so called political heroes 0:47:49.080 --> 0:47:53.480 which would lead to riots and marauding shooters creating mass casualties. 0:47:54.120 --> 0:47:56.800 Imagine that intelligence is aware of the threat and issues 0:47:56.880 --> 0:47:59.560 a declassified memo from the Department of Homeland Security warning 0:47:59.640 --> 0:48:03.200 lawn Hosement that terrorists could be killing people in movie theaters. 0:48:03.719 --> 0:48:06.640 All that is needed is the catalyzing event and immediately 0:48:06.880 --> 0:48:10.600 the police estate is activated. Flash riots take place in cities, 0:48:10.880 --> 0:48:14.560 civil unrest, bruise under the radar. Truth becomes stranger than 0:48:14.560 --> 0:48:17.359 fiction as we examined the media stories surrounding the main 0:48:17.480 --> 0:48:21.240 story of the so called brainwashed low nut James Holmes 0:48:21.400 --> 0:48:23.759 opening fire in a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, on 0:48:23.840 --> 0:48:28.480 July twentieth, twenty twelve, an allegedly killing twelve and injuring 0:48:28.680 --> 0:48:33.279 fifty nine others. Interesting use of the word allegedly there 0:48:33.920 --> 0:48:37.120 in regarding regarding the people that were killed. 0:48:37.360 --> 0:48:37.839 Oh boy. 0:48:38.080 --> 0:48:41.080 And then the next sentence is really where things pick up. 0:48:41.800 --> 0:48:45.280 Not only is James Holmes connected to the neuroscience super 0:48:45.400 --> 0:48:50.000 Soldier Peak Soldier performance experiments, but his father works for 0:48:50.040 --> 0:48:53.279 a software company that analyzes fraud. So I'm not going 0:48:53.360 --> 0:48:55.200 to actually read the next bit because it is just 0:48:55.560 --> 0:49:01.640 the ramblings of conspiracy brained lunatic who think that because 0:49:01.920 --> 0:49:06.040 the shooter's dad was a neuroscientist, that therefore his son 0:49:06.160 --> 0:49:09.480 must have been this victim of a super soldier program 0:49:09.520 --> 0:49:13.080 to brainwash you to activate the police state. Once you 0:49:13.560 --> 0:49:16.000 receive a bit of predictive programming. 0:49:15.880 --> 0:49:19.520 And the other I will I will get to. 0:49:19.600 --> 0:49:23.240 One other paragraph and then will be done with this article, 0:49:23.239 --> 0:49:27.200 because there's really not much more substance quote. The chilling 0:49:27.239 --> 0:49:30.760 predictive programming looming behind the dark Knight Rises does not escape, 0:49:30.800 --> 0:49:34.840 at least the unconscious of those watching. Bain, the leader 0:49:34.880 --> 0:49:39.640 of the fictional anarchist mob, decides to plant bombs in 0:49:39.680 --> 0:49:43.759 the Gotham underground, the final target being a stadium where 0:49:43.800 --> 0:49:47.120 the Mayor of Gotham attends a sports event. A young 0:49:47.200 --> 0:49:50.359 boy sings the national anthem with a British accent. Bain 0:49:50.520 --> 0:49:53.920 pauses to listen to the distinct voice, then says, Nott 0:49:54.040 --> 0:49:57.840 the Gerbers brigand after which the stadium is bombed and 0:49:57.880 --> 0:50:03.160 the mayor is killed in his reserved viewing box. Now, 0:50:04.840 --> 0:50:07.400 Clyde Lewis believes that this was a bit of predictive 0:50:07.440 --> 0:50:11.520 programming in order to prepare people for a mash casualty 0:50:11.520 --> 0:50:15.160 event at the London twenty twelve Olympics, which you might 0:50:15.400 --> 0:50:20.040 you might know did not happen, was not was. 0:50:20.040 --> 0:50:20.520 Not a thing. 0:50:20.880 --> 0:50:23.359 But he is convinced that this is part of some 0:50:23.400 --> 0:50:25.880 predictive programming to either trigger this event, or cover up 0:50:25.920 --> 0:50:28.840 this event, or allude to this event again, an event 0:50:28.880 --> 0:50:32.799 that did not happen. So that's, you know, as as 0:50:32.840 --> 0:50:34.840 as we're going to be talking about, you know, how 0:50:34.960 --> 0:50:39.040 people view mass uprising and political movements in media for 0:50:39.040 --> 0:50:41.120 the for the rest of this episode, this is how 0:50:41.120 --> 0:50:46.400 a certain sect of conservative does their own media analysis, 0:50:46.440 --> 0:50:48.360 which I think is a really is a really fun, 0:50:49.080 --> 0:50:52.279 really fun look into how their brains operate, sorting a 0:50:52.360 --> 0:50:56.920 very political film into these into these predictive programming boxes. 0:50:57.400 --> 0:51:00.560 But we will we will return to talk about the 0:51:00.680 --> 0:51:03.160 Virgin David Graber and the chad Mark Fisher. 0:51:05.080 --> 0:51:09.720 After this ad break, we are back. 0:51:09.880 --> 0:51:12.600 I am I am waiting watching for the rich to be 0:51:12.680 --> 0:51:16.359 thrown from their balconies as wealth as redistributed and a 0:51:16.400 --> 0:51:19.400 man in a very fancy coat takes over a sporting event. 0:51:19.880 --> 0:51:25.200 So I read almost every serious political analysis of the 0:51:25.719 --> 0:51:28.960 Darknight Races that I could find from fascists, from conservatives, 0:51:29.000 --> 0:51:31.879 from liberals, and from leftists and anarchists. 0:51:32.840 --> 0:51:33.759 Everyone agrees that. 0:51:33.719 --> 0:51:39.520 This film has some very very obvious occupy parallels. We're 0:51:39.520 --> 0:51:41.400 going to get into how much of those are actually 0:51:41.520 --> 0:51:43.640 kind of built into the film's production versus how much 0:51:43.680 --> 0:51:49.040 of those are more or less coincidental. Now, unfortunately for me, 0:51:50.080 --> 0:51:53.879 not actually unfortunately, because I actually do like Graber a lot, 0:51:53.960 --> 0:51:57.439 but his analysis was by far the best out of 0:51:57.480 --> 0:52:04.279 anybody else's in regards to this film, And unfortunately the schizoid, 0:52:04.280 --> 0:52:07.440 acid fueled chaos magic of Mark Fisher kind of paled 0:52:07.440 --> 0:52:11.080 in comparison to the precision of the anthropologist David Graeber 0:52:11.320 --> 0:52:13.839 in terms of their analysis of this film, but both 0:52:13.880 --> 0:52:16.279 of them had roughly the same opinion. Graber has just 0:52:16.320 --> 0:52:18.360 went into a lot more depth about how kind of 0:52:18.360 --> 0:52:22.280 this film actually politically operates. So I'll be mostly talking 0:52:22.280 --> 0:52:25.080 about in quoting from Graber, with a few things from 0:52:25.120 --> 0:52:27.640 Fisher kind of mixed in, and then we'll compare it 0:52:27.719 --> 0:52:30.600 to some stuff in Breitbart and The Daily Caller and 0:52:31.040 --> 0:52:35.080 a few other reactions from liberals who enjoyed the film 0:52:35.120 --> 0:52:39.680 too much and are are unwilling to kind of seed 0:52:39.840 --> 0:52:43.600 this conservative ground to Nolan's twenty twelve film, and I 0:52:43.640 --> 0:52:45.279 think this is actually really interesting to talk about this 0:52:45.280 --> 0:52:47.920 film this year after the release of Oppenheimer, which I 0:52:47.920 --> 0:52:50.800 think is Nolan's probably most politically mature work. 0:52:51.360 --> 0:52:53.319 And he has definitely grown a. 0:52:53.239 --> 0:52:55.600 Lot in the past ten years as a filmmaker, at 0:52:55.680 --> 0:52:58.879 least in terms of his his ability to get into 0:52:58.920 --> 0:53:03.200 politics in a way that is not just purely reactionary, 0:53:03.239 --> 0:53:05.600 where I think a lot of his early films are 0:53:05.640 --> 0:53:09.600 kind of absorbed by this reactionariness. And I think I 0:53:09.640 --> 0:53:11.799 think he has matured a decent bit, at least as 0:53:11.840 --> 0:53:16.040 a as a political filmmaker. So we will start with 0:53:16.360 --> 0:53:21.640 a paragraph from Graber quote Christopher Nolan's Batman, The Dark 0:53:21.719 --> 0:53:24.720 Knight Rises Not the title of the film is really 0:53:24.760 --> 0:53:28.800 a piece of anti occupy propaganda. Christopher Nolan, the director, 0:53:28.840 --> 0:53:31.400 claims that the script was written before the movement even started, 0:53:31.640 --> 0:53:34.080 and that the famous scenes of the occupation of New 0:53:34.160 --> 0:53:37.640 York Gotham City were really inspired by Dickens's account of 0:53:37.640 --> 0:53:41.440 the French Revolution. This is probably true, but it's disingenuous. 0:53:41.560 --> 0:53:44.799 Everyone knows Hollywood scripts are continually rewritten while movies are 0:53:44.880 --> 0:53:47.880 in production. And when it comes to messaging, even details 0:53:47.880 --> 0:53:49.960 like precise wording or where a scene a shot can 0:53:50.000 --> 0:53:52.640 make all the difference. Then there's the fact that the 0:53:52.719 --> 0:53:56.280 villains actually do attack the stock exchange. Still, it's precisely 0:53:56.320 --> 0:53:59.600 this ambition, the filmmaker's willingness to take on the great 0:53:59.640 --> 0:54:04.680 issues of the day, that ruins the movie. So the 0:54:04.880 --> 0:54:08.799 script was written well before Occupy started. Shooting for Dark 0:54:08.880 --> 0:54:12.280 Knight rices ended two months after the start of Occupy. 0:54:12.800 --> 0:54:15.840 Most of the shooting for the film took place before 0:54:15.920 --> 0:54:19.200 Occupy even happened. And now in twenty eleven, it was 0:54:19.200 --> 0:54:21.920 widely misreported that the movie was going to be filming 0:54:22.040 --> 0:54:26.280 at Occupy itself, which started from like I think something 0:54:26.280 --> 0:54:30.520 in the La Times which just got blown blown out 0:54:30.520 --> 0:54:30.920 of proportion. 0:54:31.120 --> 0:54:31.720 Was not true. 0:54:31.840 --> 0:54:33.680 They did shoot in New York, but they did not 0:54:33.719 --> 0:54:35.040 shoot at Occupy. 0:54:34.920 --> 0:54:36.359 Yap boblcause would have got run out. 0:54:37.560 --> 0:54:43.480 Probably now, leading up to twenty eleven, both Nolan and 0:54:43.600 --> 0:54:47.839 what became Occupy were on very similar conceptual roads. They 0:54:47.840 --> 0:54:50.359 were just leading to two very different places. The Dark 0:54:50.440 --> 0:54:51.880 Knight released in the middle of the two thousand and 0:54:51.880 --> 0:54:54.359 eight financial crisis, right after the two thousand and eight 0:54:54.360 --> 0:54:57.040 writers strike, ended, So there were a lot of class 0:54:57.080 --> 0:54:59.960 issues circling around in Nolan's bubble, so it made sense 0:55:00.239 --> 0:55:03.480 that Nolan's next Batman flick would tackle these things that 0:55:03.600 --> 0:55:06.520 rose to cultural prominence by the time he finished The 0:55:06.560 --> 0:55:10.040 More Patriot Act inspired at The Dark Knight Now, Nolan 0:55:10.120 --> 0:55:14.440 and other writers obviously saw economic inequality and corruption seating 0:55:14.480 --> 0:55:17.840 people's anger and the rising possibility of civil unrest, and 0:55:17.880 --> 0:55:19.640 that was put into the script and then it just 0:55:19.800 --> 0:55:23.839 happened two months before they finished shooting Now. Nolan also 0:55:23.920 --> 0:55:26.840 took a lot from the Tale of Two Cities. This 0:55:27.080 --> 0:55:29.040 probably more than anything else. The Dark Knight Rises is 0:55:29.040 --> 0:55:31.560 actually based on the Tale of Two Cities, a passage 0:55:31.560 --> 0:55:33.320 of which is read at the end of the film, 0:55:33.640 --> 0:55:37.400 and there's plenty of parallels to the French Revolution, including 0:55:37.440 --> 0:55:40.840 the storming of Bastille. There's actually two prison breaks inside 0:55:41.480 --> 0:55:43.839 The Dark Knight Rises. There is the release of Black Eight, 0:55:43.880 --> 0:55:47.600 and then there's of course when Bruce Wayne escapes the 0:55:47.680 --> 0:55:50.240 Giant Hole in the ground and frees the other prisoners 0:55:50.280 --> 0:55:54.560 as well. So still, throughout all of these kind of 0:55:55.000 --> 0:55:57.760 class issues that Nolan is talking about in this film, 0:55:58.280 --> 0:56:02.120 he still shows a deep trust of populism or at 0:56:02.120 --> 0:56:04.480 the very least feared how easily it could be subverted 0:56:04.520 --> 0:56:07.600 in a charged financial climate. I'm going to read one 0:56:07.800 --> 0:56:11.320 one quote from Fisher here. Quote when Nolan revived the 0:56:11.360 --> 0:56:14.440 Batman franchise in two thousand and five, the setting Gotham 0:56:14.440 --> 0:56:17.080 in the midst of an economic depression seemed like an 0:56:17.160 --> 0:56:20.320 achronistic reference to the superheroes origins in the nineteen thirties. 0:56:20.719 --> 0:56:22.399 Two thousand and eight to The Dark Knight was too 0:56:22.480 --> 0:56:25.360 early to register the impact of the financial crisis. But 0:56:25.400 --> 0:56:27.719 The Dark Knight Rises clearly attempts to respond to the 0:56:27.719 --> 0:56:30.800 two thousand and eight situation. The film isn't this simple 0:56:30.880 --> 0:56:33.920 conservative parable that the right wingers would like, but in 0:56:33.960 --> 0:56:37.279 the end it is a reactionary vision, which I think 0:56:37.400 --> 0:56:40.120 is the fairest way to look at this film. But 0:56:40.520 --> 0:56:43.560 now we're going to go deep into Graver's analysis, which 0:56:43.600 --> 0:56:46.439 is by far, probably one of the best write ups 0:56:46.480 --> 0:56:49.560 on twentieth century superheroes and their role in American culture. 0:56:50.120 --> 0:56:51.640 It's my favorite by far. This is the one that 0:56:51.640 --> 0:56:54.359 I always like push on people when people talk about Marvel. 0:56:54.120 --> 0:56:56.960 Because yes, no, absolutely, I mean this is this is 0:56:57.239 --> 0:56:59.720 I say that you've referenced a lot on this show. 0:57:00.400 --> 0:57:02.360 I've been I've been going into a bit of a 0:57:02.360 --> 0:57:06.880 graver resurgence lately. I deeply enjoyed his essay on Puppets, 0:57:07.160 --> 0:57:09.440 which I'm going to respond to by writing an essay 0:57:09.480 --> 0:57:13.200 on why nihilists hate puppets and except the U and 0:57:13.520 --> 0:57:16.760 except the adversarial framing of the police. But that is 0:57:16.800 --> 0:57:19.320 a digression. Now we will we will get back to 0:57:19.400 --> 0:57:22.920 Graber's essay in the New Inquiry titled superposition. 0:57:23.600 --> 0:57:25.480 Oh the thing, the thing I want to mention here 0:57:25.480 --> 0:57:28.920 about this essays he wanted to Oh God, what was that? 0:57:29.280 --> 0:57:32.080 He wanted to call it on Batman and the problem 0:57:32.120 --> 0:57:33.240 of constituent power. 0:57:33.040 --> 0:57:35.320 But they wouldn't let him do it. So it's well 0:57:35.480 --> 0:57:36.600 superposition instead. 0:57:36.680 --> 0:57:39.120 This is that is certainly what it's actually about, is 0:57:39.120 --> 0:57:43.120 constituent power. Will we will get to that very shortly. 0:57:43.400 --> 0:57:44.960 So quote. 0:57:45.280 --> 0:57:48.600 Superheroes are a product of their historical origins. Superman is 0:57:48.640 --> 0:57:51.920 a Depression era displaced to Iowa farm boy. Peter Parker, 0:57:51.960 --> 0:57:54.280 a product of the sixties, is a smart ass, working 0:57:54.280 --> 0:57:57.600 class kid from Queen's Batman. The billionaire play Boy is 0:57:57.640 --> 0:58:00.480 the scion of the military industrial complex that was created 0:58:00.760 --> 0:58:03.320 just as he was at the beginning of World War Two. 0:58:04.440 --> 0:58:07.440 I will say the early origins of Batman are far 0:58:07.520 --> 0:58:09.440 divorced from that, but that is certainly what Batman has 0:58:09.440 --> 0:58:10.120 evolved into. 0:58:11.440 --> 0:58:11.800 Quote. 0:58:12.120 --> 0:58:15.320 These heroes are purely reactionary in a literal sense. They 0:58:15.320 --> 0:58:17.440 have no projects of their own, at least not in 0:58:17.480 --> 0:58:20.800 their roles as heroes. Almost never do superheroes make, create, 0:58:20.920 --> 0:58:24.640 or build anything. The villains, in contrast, are endlessly creative. 0:58:24.960 --> 0:58:27.920 They are full of plans and projects and ideas. Clearly, 0:58:27.920 --> 0:58:30.920 we are supposed to, at first, without constently realizing it, 0:58:31.160 --> 0:58:34.320 identify with the villains, after all, they're the ones having 0:58:34.320 --> 0:58:37.280 all the fun. Then, of course we feel guilty about it, 0:58:37.440 --> 0:58:40.160 re identify with the hero and have even more fun 0:58:40.240 --> 0:58:45.040 watching the super ego clubbing the errant id back into submission. 0:58:45.800 --> 0:58:50.480 This essay that Graber wrote is very Freudian. Craper makes 0:58:50.520 --> 0:58:53.160 a lot of freud references in this. I am not 0:58:53.200 --> 0:58:56.080 going to be getting into as much, but superheroes are 0:58:56.160 --> 0:58:57.840 also very very Freudian. 0:58:58.680 --> 0:59:01.600 Yeah, I want to say, thinking about this specific passage, 0:59:01.680 --> 0:59:04.600 or specifically the way that you're encouraged identify with the 0:59:04.640 --> 0:59:07.840 hero and then like that gets like that gets subverted. 0:59:07.840 --> 0:59:09.120 You're supposed to come back to the hero. 0:59:09.760 --> 0:59:11.800 So this used to be a kind of so to 0:59:11.840 --> 0:59:14.120 identify with the villain and then yeah, and then come 0:59:14.160 --> 0:59:17.120 back back to the Yeah. So and this is this 0:59:17.240 --> 0:59:19.640 works as like a conserv ave project of conservative ideology, 0:59:19.640 --> 0:59:22.800 and this used to be like an implicit thing in 0:59:22.840 --> 0:59:25.720 these movies. And then you get to Black Panther, which 0:59:25.760 --> 0:59:29.040 is literally well literally they just like that. That is 0:59:29.120 --> 0:59:32.240 just the like they stopped being subtle and we're like, hey, 0:59:32.240 --> 0:59:34.160 here's a guy who's an anti imperial list and then 0:59:34.200 --> 0:59:36.200 the ending reveal is, oh my god, he's actually evil. 0:59:36.800 --> 0:59:39.439 In terms of Marvel, I would say yes, I would. 0:59:39.480 --> 0:59:43.480 I think my two favorite superhero movies, which would be 0:59:43.560 --> 0:59:46.920 Tim Burton's Batman and Batman Returns, do the reverse of 0:59:46.920 --> 0:59:49.960 this where very obviously the villain is the main characters 0:59:50.000 --> 0:59:52.120 of both of those and Batman is really just a 0:59:52.160 --> 0:59:54.640 side character. And I think that was actually work better 0:59:54.640 --> 0:59:57.360 for this medium so much more. Oh yeah, but when 0:59:57.400 --> 1:00:00.680 it comes to Marvel, absolutely yeah, they're just like openly 1:00:00.720 --> 1:00:03.280 doing this now. It's really sort of like, yeah, this 1:00:03.400 --> 1:00:04.720 was what the second one's about. 1:00:04.720 --> 1:00:06.840 Two yes, yes, now. 1:00:06.960 --> 1:00:10.360 Grayber then talks about kind of what the project of 1:00:10.440 --> 1:00:12.840 these comic books were originally supposed to be, and how 1:00:12.880 --> 1:00:16.160 that kind of continues on today into pop culture. 1:00:16.680 --> 1:00:16.919 Quote. 1:00:17.080 --> 1:00:20.400 Politically speaking, superhero comic books can seem pretty innocuous. If 1:00:20.440 --> 1:00:21.840 all a comic is trying to do is tell a 1:00:21.840 --> 1:00:24.320 bunch of adolescent boys that everyone has a certain desire 1:00:24.360 --> 1:00:26.840 for chaos and mayhem, but ultimately such desires need to 1:00:26.880 --> 1:00:30.560 be controlled, the implications would not seem especially dire, especially 1:00:30.600 --> 1:00:33.560 because the message still does carry a healthy dose of ambivalence. 1:00:34.120 --> 1:00:36.640 After all, the heroes of even the most right leaning 1:00:36.680 --> 1:00:39.320 action movies seem to spend much of their time smashing 1:00:39.400 --> 1:00:41.720 up suburban shopping malls, something that many of us would 1:00:41.760 --> 1:00:44.080 like to do at some point in our lives. In 1:00:44.120 --> 1:00:46.960 the case of most comic book superheroes, however, the mayhem 1:00:47.040 --> 1:00:51.320 has an extremely conservative political implication. This is where we 1:00:51.320 --> 1:00:55.480 could start getting into God versus the people and using 1:00:55.520 --> 1:00:57.840 both of these things as constructs. Right, neither of these 1:00:57.840 --> 1:01:00.959 things really fully exist in a super material way. Both 1:01:00.960 --> 1:01:03.520 of these things are constructs quote unquote God, quote unquote 1:01:03.560 --> 1:01:07.000 the people. They both occupy a very similar ontological rule, 1:01:07.600 --> 1:01:10.959 and this is something that Graper gets into quote any 1:01:11.000 --> 1:01:13.720 power capable of creating a system of law cannot itself 1:01:13.760 --> 1:01:16.360 be bound by them. In the Middle Ages, the solution 1:01:16.520 --> 1:01:19.360 was simple. The legal order was created either directly or 1:01:19.400 --> 1:01:24.280 indirectly by God. The English, American and French revolutions changed 1:01:24.440 --> 1:01:28.440 all that when they created the notion of popular sovereignty, 1:01:28.760 --> 1:01:32.120 declaring that the power once held by kings and by extension, God, 1:01:32.640 --> 1:01:37.320 is now held by an entity called the people. The people, however, 1:01:37.480 --> 1:01:40.080 are bound by the laws. They are able to create 1:01:40.120 --> 1:01:44.440 the laws through those revolutions themselves. But of course revolutions 1:01:44.480 --> 1:01:48.880 are acts of law breaking, so laws emerge from illegal activity. 1:01:49.480 --> 1:01:52.360 This creates a fundamental incoherence and the very idea of 1:01:52.440 --> 1:01:55.760 modern government, which assumes that the state has a monopoly 1:01:55.800 --> 1:01:58.320 on the legitimate use of violence. It's okay for police 1:01:58.320 --> 1:02:01.120 to use violence because they are enforcing a law. The 1:02:01.200 --> 1:02:04.360 law is legitimate because it's rooted in the constitution. The 1:02:04.360 --> 1:02:06.560 constitution is legitimate because it comes from the people. That 1:02:06.600 --> 1:02:08.920 people create the constitution by acts of illegal violence. It 1:02:08.960 --> 1:02:10.320 all circles back on itself. 1:02:10.840 --> 1:02:11.240 Quote. 1:02:11.640 --> 1:02:14.120 The obvious question, then, is how does one tell the 1:02:14.160 --> 1:02:18.919 difference between the people and a mere rampaging mob, Which 1:02:19.000 --> 1:02:21.520 is a question that comes up all the time across 1:02:21.520 --> 1:02:26.320 the political spectrum from anarchists to fascists to liberals. This 1:02:26.360 --> 1:02:29.360 is a debate that still goes on. Is without the law, 1:02:29.560 --> 1:02:31.280 what is the difference between the people and just a 1:02:31.360 --> 1:02:35.760 lynch mob. Now Graber doesn't really give an answer to this, 1:02:35.800 --> 1:02:39.120 because this doesn't really have an answer. This is a 1:02:39.240 --> 1:02:42.360 very vague question, and kind of, as Graber points out, 1:02:42.560 --> 1:02:43.640 it's vague by design. 1:02:43.760 --> 1:02:44.160 Quote. 1:02:44.520 --> 1:02:47.880 The response by mainstream, respectable opinion is to push this 1:02:48.000 --> 1:02:51.000 problem as far away as possible. The usual line is 1:02:51.000 --> 1:02:53.040 that the age of revolutions is over. Now we can 1:02:53.160 --> 1:02:56.920 change the constitution or legal standards by legal means, this 1:02:57.000 --> 1:02:59.560 of course means that the basic structures will never change. 1:03:00.080 --> 1:03:00.520 Quote. 1:03:00.720 --> 1:03:04.760 And this is where kind of Graver talks about how 1:03:05.560 --> 1:03:09.960 the role of tradition has totally taken over the legal 1:03:10.000 --> 1:03:14.120 implications of our system. Here, how the US, which was 1:03:14.160 --> 1:03:18.080 you know, at once progressive in its electoral college and 1:03:18.080 --> 1:03:21.800 two party system, is now quite old fashioned compared to 1:03:21.840 --> 1:03:25.360 a lot of other you know, popular democratic countries. There's 1:03:25.680 --> 1:03:28.240 a good line quote we base the legitimacy of the 1:03:28.280 --> 1:03:30.760 whole system on the consent of the people, despite the 1:03:30.760 --> 1:03:32.920 fact that the only people who were ever really consulted 1:03:32.920 --> 1:03:35.560 on the matter lived over two hundred years ago in 1:03:35.600 --> 1:03:39.720 America at least, quote unquote, the people are long since dead. 1:03:40.560 --> 1:03:44.160 So now we have this situation that we have this 1:03:44.320 --> 1:03:47.160 idea of the legal order which comes from God, which 1:03:47.240 --> 1:03:50.240 then came from armed revolution, and now it just comes 1:03:50.240 --> 1:03:53.800 from this idea of sheer tradition. Now, there's obviously a 1:03:53.800 --> 1:03:57.120 lot of American politicians who would want to give this 1:03:57.200 --> 1:03:58.200 power back to God. 1:04:01.320 --> 1:04:05.400 But even then, I was like, it's really hard to 1:04:05.840 --> 1:04:08.440 actually do that. 1:04:08.960 --> 1:04:11.520 Like, even even governments that are. 1:04:11.440 --> 1:04:14.880 Very explicitly theocratic, like for example, like Oron, it's like, well, 1:04:15.000 --> 1:04:17.960 they still have elections and they still have this like 1:04:18.320 --> 1:04:22.480 the the notion of popular sovereignty belonging to the people 1:04:23.160 --> 1:04:26.120 is very hard to dislodge unless you're going to straight 1:04:26.160 --> 1:04:27.840 up impose a monarchy. And even a lot of the 1:04:27.880 --> 1:04:31.920 monarchies now are like, you know, they follow the European 1:04:31.960 --> 1:04:34.440 thing of like claiming to like derive the authority from 1:04:34.480 --> 1:04:35.080 the people or something. 1:04:35.400 --> 1:04:39.080 But we also we also have people like like Walsh 1:04:39.120 --> 1:04:46.120 and Michael Knowles who are like Catholic monarchists. Yeah, a 1:04:46.120 --> 1:04:47.760 lot of prominence in American culture. 1:04:48.400 --> 1:04:51.400 Yeah, it's it's it's a like. I don't know. I 1:04:51.680 --> 1:04:57.800 wish them bad luck. Yes, that is, that's a little moderate. 1:04:57.520 --> 1:05:03.680 Thing I wish upon them. Back to Graber, quote for 1:05:03.720 --> 1:05:06.440 the radical left and the authoritarian right, the problem of 1:05:06.480 --> 1:05:10.720 constituent power is very much alive, but each takes dimetrically 1:05:10.760 --> 1:05:15.080 opposite approaches to the fundamental question of violence unquote. Now, 1:05:15.080 --> 1:05:17.800 I think this is something that has I'd be interested 1:05:17.800 --> 1:05:19.400 to see Graber revisit this idea. 1:05:19.440 --> 1:05:19.600 Now. 1:05:19.680 --> 1:05:22.840 Unfortunately that cannot be the case, because this question of 1:05:22.880 --> 1:05:25.400 violence has certainly evolved a lot in the ten years 1:05:25.400 --> 1:05:28.360 in which he wrote this, both in terms of how 1:05:28.400 --> 1:05:30.600 the alt right operates, but also in terms of how 1:05:30.680 --> 1:05:33.840 the quote unquote left views violence as a necessary political tool. 1:05:34.280 --> 1:05:36.960 But getting into his analysis of the twentieth century, I 1:05:37.000 --> 1:05:38.160 think it is still fairly accurate. 1:05:38.240 --> 1:05:39.479 Quote. 1:05:39.640 --> 1:05:42.560 The left, chastised by the disasters of the twentieth century, 1:05:42.760 --> 1:05:46.280 has largely moved away from its older celebration of revolutionary violence, 1:05:46.440 --> 1:05:49.800 preferring non violent forms of resistance. Those who act in 1:05:49.840 --> 1:05:51.800 the name of something higher than the law can do 1:05:51.840 --> 1:05:54.919 so precisely because they don't act like a rampaging mob. 1:05:55.480 --> 1:05:57.200 For the right, on the other hand, and this has 1:05:57.240 --> 1:05:59.360 been true since the rise of fascism in the twenties. 1:06:00.000 --> 1:06:03.280 The very idea that there is something special about revolutionary violence, 1:06:03.480 --> 1:06:06.480 anything that makes it different from mere criminal violence, is 1:06:06.680 --> 1:06:10.920 so much self righteous twaddle. Violence is violence, but that 1:06:11.000 --> 1:06:15.240 doesn't mean a rampaging mob can't be the people, because 1:06:15.320 --> 1:06:18.560 violence is the real source of law and political order. 1:06:19.840 --> 1:06:22.240 This is why, as Walter Benjamin noted, we cannot help 1:06:22.240 --> 1:06:25.800 but admire the great criminal, because, as so many movie 1:06:25.800 --> 1:06:29.120 posters have put it, he makes his own law. After all, 1:06:29.200 --> 1:06:33.400 any criminal organization does inevitably begin developing its own, often 1:06:33.480 --> 1:06:36.720 quite elaborate set of internal laws. They have to as 1:06:36.760 --> 1:06:40.240 a way of controlling what would otherwise be completely random violence. 1:06:40.600 --> 1:06:43.560 From the right wing perspective, that's all law, ever is. 1:06:43.880 --> 1:06:46.000 It is a means of controlling the very violence that 1:06:46.040 --> 1:06:50.680 it brings into being and through which it is ultimately enforced. Now, 1:06:50.720 --> 1:06:53.000 I think this is also true of even certain aspects 1:06:53.000 --> 1:06:55.080 of the left, where we have we don't call them laws, 1:06:55.120 --> 1:06:57.720 we might call them like community guidelines or something, but 1:06:57.800 --> 1:07:01.400 we often actually do this same process, especially in the 1:07:01.440 --> 1:07:05.160 anarchist kind of formations that try to replicate gang formations 1:07:05.200 --> 1:07:10.640 like purposefully, we get this same essence that is developed 1:07:10.640 --> 1:07:13.680 in order to people might you know, reject these to 1:07:13.720 --> 1:07:16.560 the word police, but at least, you know, make some 1:07:16.680 --> 1:07:20.160 kind of structure that deems which violence is acceptable and 1:07:20.160 --> 1:07:23.280 which violence isn't. But back to Graber quote. This makes 1:07:23.320 --> 1:07:26.600 it easier to understand the often surprising affinity between criminals, 1:07:26.680 --> 1:07:30.520 criminal gangs, right wing political movements, and the armed representatives 1:07:30.520 --> 1:07:33.560 of the state. Ultimately, they speak the same language, they 1:07:33.560 --> 1:07:35.560 create their own rules on the basis of force. As 1:07:35.560 --> 1:07:38.560 a result, they typically share the same broad political sensibilities. 1:07:39.080 --> 1:07:42.120 In Athens nowadays, there's an active collaboration between the crime 1:07:42.120 --> 1:07:45.400 bosses in poor immigrant neighborhoods, fascist gangs, and the police. 1:07:45.720 --> 1:07:48.720 In fact, in this case, it was clearly a political 1:07:48.760 --> 1:07:52.040 strategy face with the prospect of popular uprisings against a 1:07:52.120 --> 1:07:55.960 right wing government. The police first withdrew protection from neighborhoods 1:07:55.960 --> 1:07:59.240 near the immigrant gangs, then started giving tacit support to 1:07:59.280 --> 1:08:02.120 the fascists for the far right. Then it is in 1:08:02.160 --> 1:08:05.840 that space where different violent forces operating outside of the 1:08:05.880 --> 1:08:09.320 legal order interact that new forms of power and hence 1:08:09.400 --> 1:08:12.400 of order can emerge. What does this have to do 1:08:12.440 --> 1:08:16.040 with costume superheroes. Well, everything, because this is exactly the 1:08:16.040 --> 1:08:20.839 space that superheroes and supervillains also inhabit. An inherently fascist 1:08:20.880 --> 1:08:25.080 space inhabited only by gangsters would be dictators, police and thugs, 1:08:25.479 --> 1:08:29.679 with endlessly blurring lines between them. Sometimes the cops are legalistic, 1:08:29.760 --> 1:08:33.640 sometimes they're corrupt. Sometimes the police themselves slip into vigilanteism. 1:08:34.120 --> 1:08:36.760 Sometimes they pursue the superheroes, sometimes they look the other way. 1:08:36.800 --> 1:08:40.040 Sometimes they help. Villains and heroes occasionally team up. The 1:08:40.080 --> 1:08:43.559 lines of force are always shifting. If anything new where 1:08:43.560 --> 1:08:46.559 to emerge, it could only be through such shifting forces. 1:08:46.760 --> 1:08:49.840 There's nothing else, since in the DC and Marvel universes, 1:08:50.040 --> 1:08:55.000 neither God nor the people really exist. Now, I think 1:08:55.080 --> 1:08:57.559 this is greater hitting on something that really actually does 1:08:57.640 --> 1:09:00.720 hit at the core of this whole genre is that 1:09:01.240 --> 1:09:04.040 this is the genre which is really only inhabited by 1:09:04.200 --> 1:09:06.639 the uber manch as this like governing body. Right, There's 1:09:06.960 --> 1:09:09.920 there really isn't the god in any kind of meaningful way. 1:09:10.040 --> 1:09:12.320 There isn't the people in any kind of meaningful way. 1:09:12.479 --> 1:09:15.400 There is just the super individual. The uber manch himself 1:09:15.680 --> 1:09:18.799 is what inspired Joe Schuster and Jerry Siegel to create Superman. 1:09:18.920 --> 1:09:19.080 Like that. 1:09:19.160 --> 1:09:22.400 This is this is the origin of this entire genre. 1:09:22.800 --> 1:09:24.240 By the way, I want to I want to mention 1:09:24.320 --> 1:09:26.320 some some comic book nerds are gonna get very angry 1:09:26.320 --> 1:09:28.000 here and be like, Wow, there's some one above all. 1:09:28.040 --> 1:09:31.599 It's like okay, like God, like there there are there 1:09:31.760 --> 1:09:34.360 is technically God in this right, but like God is 1:09:34.360 --> 1:09:35.840 the thing that you can beat the crap out of, 1:09:36.240 --> 1:09:38.799 Like it's not God in the sense of like God. 1:09:38.680 --> 1:09:40.840 Ordained authority is blah blah blah blah. Like no, it's not. 1:09:40.920 --> 1:09:42.200 It's not the same thing this is. That's not what 1:09:42.200 --> 1:09:44.760 we were talking about. Please don't be pedanic in the 1:09:44.760 --> 1:09:45.320 comic cult. 1:09:45.680 --> 1:09:50.080 And I'm talking like as like a literary tradition. God 1:09:50.120 --> 1:09:54.200 does not operate as a significant role in these pieces 1:09:54.200 --> 1:09:55.640 of art like that that like that, like if you're 1:09:55.640 --> 1:09:58.200 gonna be looking at the genre as art for twelve 1:09:58.240 --> 1:10:02.160 year old boys, God does not operate specific crucial role 1:10:02.439 --> 1:10:04.320 in in this world's ontology. 1:10:04.600 --> 1:10:06.360 And it's funny too, because one of the things that 1:10:06.360 --> 1:10:09.400 happens after this is there's there's a thing called there's 1:10:09.400 --> 1:10:12.040 a thing called Occupy Avengers, and they make this attempt 1:10:12.080 --> 1:10:13.000 to bring the people. 1:10:13.439 --> 1:10:17.519 It's it's a shit show. It is awful it's so bad, 1:10:17.920 --> 1:10:20.479 Like it's well, and it's interesting to you because like 1:10:20.520 --> 1:10:22.880 anytime they try to so that, that was an attempt 1:10:22.920 --> 1:10:25.000 to bring in like sort of the people as like 1:10:25.000 --> 1:10:28.160 a left wing constitutive body, and that was a disaster. 1:10:28.880 --> 1:10:30.880 They tried to do it, Like they've tried to do 1:10:30.920 --> 1:10:34.439 it again. But the people exist as this sort of 1:10:34.520 --> 1:10:39.320 like very right wing like forced it is like they 1:10:39.680 --> 1:10:41.840 as like this bob that's constantly on the edge of 1:10:41.840 --> 1:10:44.519 sort of like destroying society whatever. And that's been like 1:10:44.520 --> 1:10:46.400 the most attempts to do it. 1:10:47.360 --> 1:10:50.280 No, there're certainly attempts to bring in like the American 1:10:50.320 --> 1:10:53.000 political system into various aspects of comics, whether that's like 1:10:53.080 --> 1:10:56.559 Lex Luthor being president, whether it's stuff like the. 1:10:58.360 --> 1:10:59.920 I know this stuff and I think it's called the. 1:11:00.040 --> 1:11:02.800 Mortal Hulk has has has a lot of politics. 1:11:03.080 --> 1:11:05.040 But that one's Wilde's. 1:11:05.600 --> 1:11:08.080 I do think Raber's kind of point here is still 1:11:08.439 --> 1:11:09.920 still still accurate. 1:11:09.600 --> 1:11:11.080 And rings true. 1:11:11.200 --> 1:11:13.640 I have one other paragraph from Graper then we'll kind 1:11:13.680 --> 1:11:16.640 of get into a little bit more more discussion. 1:11:17.240 --> 1:11:17.559 Quote. 1:11:17.640 --> 1:11:20.280 Insofar as there is a potential for constituent power, then 1:11:20.640 --> 1:11:23.760 it can only come from purveyors of violence. The super 1:11:23.800 --> 1:11:26.839 villains and evil masterminds, when they are not merely indulging 1:11:26.840 --> 1:11:30.240 in random acts of terror, are always scheming of imposing 1:11:30.240 --> 1:11:33.000 a new world order of some kind or another. Surely, 1:11:33.040 --> 1:11:36.040 if Red Skull King the Conqueror or Doctor Doom did 1:11:36.040 --> 1:11:38.479 ever succeed in taking over the planet, there'd be lots 1:11:38.479 --> 1:11:40.080 of new laws created very quickly. 1:11:40.360 --> 1:11:41.280 Yeah, and there was. 1:11:41.320 --> 1:11:43.760 Actually after he wrote this, there was an arc where 1:11:43.840 --> 1:11:46.519 Doctor dun successfully conquered the entire universe, and he did 1:11:46.600 --> 1:11:50.760 in fact do exactly that, which also one another w 1:11:51.000 --> 1:11:55.599 for common David Graber w. 1:11:53.960 --> 1:11:56.680 Which also does not last very long, because if if 1:11:56.720 --> 1:11:58.360 that happened for a while, it would make the story 1:11:58.400 --> 1:12:02.560 incredibly boring. Yeah, things doing things always return to the 1:12:02.600 --> 1:12:06.639 status quo. Which is also another crucial aspect of this genre, 1:12:06.800 --> 1:12:08.760 that things have to return to the status quo, which 1:12:08.800 --> 1:12:11.080 is something I will get to very shortly. Back to 1:12:11.120 --> 1:12:14.840 Grabor quote, although their creator would doubtless not himself feel 1:12:14.840 --> 1:12:18.439 bounded by them, superheroes resist this logic. They do not 1:12:18.520 --> 1:12:21.680 wish to conquer the world. Now, this is where I'm 1:12:21.680 --> 1:12:24.680 going to actually disagree slightly with Graber. He writes that 1:12:24.720 --> 1:12:29.120 superheroes quote remain parasitical off the villains in the same 1:12:29.160 --> 1:12:33.360 way that police remain parasitical off criminals. Without them, they'd 1:12:33.400 --> 1:12:37.200 have no reason to exist. Now, I'd argue that the 1:12:37.200 --> 1:12:40.280 police actually create the spectral category of criminals to justify 1:12:40.280 --> 1:12:43.000 their own existence. Yeah, criminals didn't create the police. It's 1:12:43.040 --> 1:12:46.920 the other way around, right, you can look at you 1:12:46.960 --> 1:12:48.760 can look at like the way even the past few years, 1:12:48.840 --> 1:12:51.519 police have been lying about inflated crime rates to justify 1:12:51.560 --> 1:12:55.559 their own increased funding. And now, obviously people always broke 1:12:55.800 --> 1:12:58.640 social norms, but if you're looking at the actual, like 1:12:59.040 --> 1:13:02.479 the actual like political class of criminal and the political 1:13:02.520 --> 1:13:06.000 class of police, this is like it's like everyone has 1:13:06.000 --> 1:13:08.720 done a crime, right, Like police commit more crimes than 1:13:08.760 --> 1:13:12.160 the average person, but they do not often get called 1:13:12.200 --> 1:13:14.920 a criminal. I'm talking about like a very political class 1:13:15.080 --> 1:13:17.640 that we call criminal, and this is something that the 1:13:17.680 --> 1:13:23.439 police create. And curiously, in the same way, most superheroes 1:13:23.560 --> 1:13:27.040 also pre date their respective supervillains, as it is the 1:13:27.040 --> 1:13:30.880 presence of the superhero that often births the adversarial supervillain. 1:13:31.000 --> 1:13:35.160 We see this across tons of superhero medias where they 1:13:35.240 --> 1:13:39.400 use example of how the superhero predated the arrival of 1:13:39.400 --> 1:13:42.400 these theatrical villains, and this is actually the superhero's fault, right. 1:13:42.560 --> 1:13:44.840 Is this happens in Batman, this happens in Spider Man. 1:13:45.760 --> 1:13:48.559 This is very, very common. We even see this in 1:13:48.600 --> 1:13:51.680 something like The Boys or The Watchmen, both of which 1:13:51.720 --> 1:13:55.439 target superheroes as a reactionary right wing tendency, which are 1:13:55.479 --> 1:13:58.760 aligned with the police and military. We literally have Homelander 1:13:58.920 --> 1:14:03.519 creating supervillain to justify his own existence, or super terrorists 1:14:03.560 --> 1:14:07.240 in The Watchman, the actual team predates the arrival of 1:14:07.280 --> 1:14:10.679 many super villains. So this, this is this is one 1:14:10.880 --> 1:14:14.799 one small nitpick I might I might say with this article, 1:14:15.560 --> 1:14:18.240 at least in terms of the like the the causality 1:14:18.240 --> 1:14:21.880 loop between superheroes and villains and criminals and police. Do 1:14:21.920 --> 1:14:25.080 you know what also pre dates all all of us, 1:14:25.760 --> 1:14:27.160 every every single person listening. 1:14:27.920 --> 1:14:29.680 We're gonna have like someone who's one hundred and. 1:14:30.080 --> 1:14:34.160 The advertising industrial complex predates every single one of you fuckers. 1:14:35.000 --> 1:14:40.479 The surrealists burst this hell hole of advertising, which tricks 1:14:40.520 --> 1:14:43.360 your mind via predictive programming, the witch to buy this 1:14:43.439 --> 1:14:47.120 fucking food box. Okay, we are we are back. We 1:14:47.160 --> 1:14:50.559 have returned to the status quo of our podcast, speaking 1:14:50.720 --> 1:14:54.080 speaking of which we're going to talk about returning to 1:14:54.080 --> 1:14:59.120 the status quo. So what what superheroes and the police, 1:14:59.200 --> 1:15:02.439 which are very ontologically similar roles in a lot of cases, 1:15:02.840 --> 1:15:06.040 what their end project is is that they seek to 1:15:06.200 --> 1:15:10.519 maintain what is and then seek out and destroy anything 1:15:10.760 --> 1:15:14.960 that threatens to alter our civilizational fabric. They they fundamentally 1:15:15.360 --> 1:15:18.280 are defenders of the status quo. That is, that is 1:15:18.320 --> 1:15:21.400 the that is the role of the superhero across almost 1:15:21.439 --> 1:15:25.000 all media. This is why if you had the powers 1:15:25.000 --> 1:15:27.639 of Superman, why are you just saving cats from trees 1:15:27.680 --> 1:15:31.080 and instead not fundamentally reshaping the world in something that 1:15:31.160 --> 1:15:33.160 is better. Now, this is a question that gets tackled 1:15:33.439 --> 1:15:35.680 by people like Grant Morrison and Alan Moore is to 1:15:35.960 --> 1:15:38.559 they often give reasons for why someone shouldn't do that, 1:15:38.880 --> 1:15:41.439 But still, this is this is a fundamental aspect of 1:15:41.479 --> 1:15:44.120 this genre is that these guys never really have any 1:15:44.360 --> 1:15:47.599 generative political project. They they are purely reactionary, and they 1:15:47.600 --> 1:15:51.519 purely are are are made to to hold up the 1:15:51.560 --> 1:15:54.880 status quo and always return to this single point from 1:15:54.920 --> 1:15:59.680 which they emerged, Back to grayber quote, they remain defenders 1:15:59.720 --> 1:16:02.200 of a legal and political system which itself seems to 1:16:02.200 --> 1:16:05.759 have come out of nowhere, and which, however faulty or degraded, 1:16:06.040 --> 1:16:10.439 must be defended because the only alternative is so much worse. 1:16:11.000 --> 1:16:14.880 They aren't fascists, They're just ordinary, decent, super powerful people 1:16:14.960 --> 1:16:17.639 who inhabit a world in which fascism is the only 1:16:17.680 --> 1:16:21.519 political possibility. Why might we ask what a form of 1:16:21.640 --> 1:16:25.640 entertainment premised on such a peculiar notion of politics emerge 1:16:25.760 --> 1:16:29.200 in the early to mid twentieth century America at just 1:16:29.280 --> 1:16:31.760 around the time that actual fascism was on the rise 1:16:31.800 --> 1:16:35.360 in Europe? Was it some kind of fantasy American equivalent. 1:16:35.920 --> 1:16:39.160 Not exactly. It's more that both fascism and superheroes were 1:16:39.160 --> 1:16:43.400 products of a similar historical predicament. What is the foundation 1:16:43.600 --> 1:16:47.240 of social order when one has exercised the very idea 1:16:47.320 --> 1:16:51.680 of revolution, and above all, what happens to the political imagination? 1:16:53.040 --> 1:16:55.960 So at this point Graver starts talking about how basically 1:16:56.640 --> 1:16:59.479 all power goes to the individual, but the individual who 1:16:59.520 --> 1:17:02.840 is embedded within a system. He discusses how the core 1:17:02.880 --> 1:17:05.840 audience for superhero comics are adolescent or pre adolescent to 1:17:05.840 --> 1:17:09.160 white boys. At least that was in the nineteen twenties 1:17:09.280 --> 1:17:12.599 or thirties, and forties, and roughly is still the case. 1:17:13.120 --> 1:17:15.800 It's that these comic books and now Marvel films, although 1:17:15.840 --> 1:17:20.280 unfortunately Marvel films have a much broader audience, but they 1:17:20.320 --> 1:17:22.360 are targeted to people who are at a point in 1:17:22.439 --> 1:17:24.400 their lives where they're like where they're likely to be 1:17:24.720 --> 1:17:28.680 both like the most imaginative and a little bit rebellious. Right, 1:17:28.720 --> 1:17:30.759 this is like, this is the twelve year old white 1:17:31.080 --> 1:17:35.200 boy is the thing that that this is targeting. So 1:17:35.280 --> 1:17:37.880 they're both very imaginative, they're a little bit rebellious, but 1:17:37.920 --> 1:17:41.280 they're also being groomed to take on positions of power 1:17:41.280 --> 1:17:44.160 and authority in the world. Right, They're about to transition 1:17:44.560 --> 1:17:48.320 to being fathers, share of small business owners, middle management. 1:17:48.400 --> 1:17:48.559 Right. 1:17:48.960 --> 1:17:53.360 So this is what this genre is targeted towards. So 1:17:53.439 --> 1:17:55.040 what are they supposed to learn from these kind of 1:17:55.160 --> 1:17:59.679 endlessly repeating stories that are all very much the same story. 1:18:00.160 --> 1:18:03.600 One aspect is that imagination and rebellion will inevitably just 1:18:03.720 --> 1:18:08.280 lead to violence, right, And then second is like imagination 1:18:08.320 --> 1:18:10.479 and rebellion violence can actually be a lot of fun, 1:18:11.240 --> 1:18:15.240 but ultimately violence must be directed back against any overflow 1:18:15.280 --> 1:18:18.479 of imagination and rebellion, or else everything will kind of 1:18:18.520 --> 1:18:21.600 go into chaos. These things have to be contained. So 1:18:21.680 --> 1:18:24.880 this is why superheroes are only allowed. I'm gonna I'm 1:18:24.880 --> 1:18:27.559 gonna quote from grayper again quote their imagination can only 1:18:27.600 --> 1:18:30.040 be extended to the design of their clothes, their cars, 1:18:30.080 --> 1:18:34.040 maybe their homes, and their very successories unquote. Basically all 1:18:34.080 --> 1:18:37.760 of their imagination for the superhero is limited to commodities. Right, 1:18:37.840 --> 1:18:41.000 This is this is the fundamental aspect where that's the 1:18:41.040 --> 1:18:46.120 only acceptable outlet for your imagination. It's it's it's just 1:18:46.360 --> 1:18:48.800 with these it's just with commodity fetishism like that. That's 1:18:48.840 --> 1:18:52.720 that's the only possible way back to Graper quote. It's 1:18:52.720 --> 1:18:54.920 in this sense that the logic of the superhero plot 1:18:54.960 --> 1:18:58.560 is profoundly, deeply conservative. Ultimately, the division between left and 1:18:58.640 --> 1:19:02.160 right sensibilities turns on one's attitude towards the imagination. For 1:19:02.240 --> 1:19:05.759 the left, imagination, creativity and by extension, production, the power 1:19:05.800 --> 1:19:08.679 to bring new things and new social arrangements into being 1:19:08.960 --> 1:19:11.759 is always celebrated. It's the source of all real value 1:19:11.760 --> 1:19:14.679 in the world. For the right, it's dangerous and ultimately evil. 1:19:15.040 --> 1:19:18.120 The urge to create is also a destructive urge. But 1:19:18.240 --> 1:19:22.120 this is also what separates conservatives from fascists. Both agree 1:19:22.120 --> 1:19:24.879 that the imagination unleashed can only lead to violence and destruction. 1:19:25.280 --> 1:19:29.040 Conservatives wish to defend us against this possibility. Fascists wish 1:19:29.120 --> 1:19:31.719 to unleash it anyway they aspire to be, as Hitler 1:19:31.720 --> 1:19:36.240 imagine himself, great artists painting with the minds, bloods, and 1:19:36.400 --> 1:19:39.680 sinews of humanity. I think this is a really good 1:19:39.680 --> 1:19:43.320 distinction between conservatives and fascists in terms of how they 1:19:43.439 --> 1:19:46.880 view creative violence. And to get back to superheroes, I 1:19:46.880 --> 1:19:50.599 think this medium, as Graver points out, has this kind 1:19:50.640 --> 1:19:55.080 of built in essence of a guilty pleasure. It revels 1:19:55.120 --> 1:19:57.920 in the absurdity of both the costumed heroes and villains, 1:19:58.439 --> 1:20:01.440 all while still targeting and imagine which is too expansive 1:20:01.479 --> 1:20:05.080 to outside the norm as being the ultimate crime. This 1:20:05.120 --> 1:20:08.800 guilty pleasure aspect even applies to the great superhero satires 1:20:08.840 --> 1:20:12.040 like The Watchmen and the Boys, which we applaud for 1:20:12.160 --> 1:20:15.559 poking and prodding at the conservative superhero all while still 1:20:15.560 --> 1:20:19.160 reveling and watching the outlandish antics on screen or on 1:20:19.240 --> 1:20:23.879 the page. Now, Graver even applies this guilty pleasure aspect 1:20:24.120 --> 1:20:28.200 into explaining the kind of the conservative backlash to superheroes 1:20:28.200 --> 1:20:31.679 in the forties and fifties, particularly with the book Seduction 1:20:31.760 --> 1:20:34.320 of the Innocent, which kind of viewed superheroes as this 1:20:34.439 --> 1:20:39.160 weirdly fetishistic, kind of naughty impulse, which resulted in superheroes 1:20:39.160 --> 1:20:44.080 getting very sanitized and much more much more silly, much 1:20:44.080 --> 1:20:48.080 more campy, which which resulted in the fantastic nineteen sixty 1:20:48.120 --> 1:20:51.320 six Batman Show. But still it kind of it kind 1:20:51.320 --> 1:20:53.840 of points at this this this guilty pleasure aspect. There's 1:20:53.880 --> 1:20:58.240 there's something inherently kind of naughty about about viewing this material. 1:20:58.960 --> 1:21:00.920 All right, we are we are nearing the end of 1:21:01.000 --> 1:21:05.400 Graber's analysis here. Quote if the message was that rebellious 1:21:05.400 --> 1:21:07.880 imagination was okay as long as it was kept out 1:21:07.920 --> 1:21:11.840 of politics and simply confined to consumer choices like clothes, cars, 1:21:11.840 --> 1:21:15.240 and accessories, this had become the message that even executive 1:21:15.280 --> 1:21:18.080 Hollywood producers could easily get behind, which results in stuff 1:21:18.120 --> 1:21:20.760 like the nineteen sixty six Batman Show. And now leading 1:21:20.840 --> 1:21:25.160 us back into Christopher Nolan, we get this really good, 1:21:25.240 --> 1:21:28.719 really good paragraph from grab quote if the classic comic 1:21:28.760 --> 1:21:31.360 book is intensively political about Madaman trying to take over 1:21:31.400 --> 1:21:35.400 the world, but really psychological and personal about overcoming the 1:21:35.520 --> 1:21:40.479 dangers of rebellious adolescents, but then ultimately political. After all, 1:21:41.439 --> 1:21:44.960 then the new superhero movies are precisely the reverse. They 1:21:44.960 --> 1:21:50.040 are sensibly psychological and personal, but really political, but ultimately 1:21:50.320 --> 1:21:54.400 they go back to being psychological and personal. So this 1:21:54.439 --> 1:21:56.680 is me just ripping. Now let's take Batman begins right. 1:21:57.360 --> 1:21:59.960 We have Racial Gul who operates in this psychological role 1:22:00.120 --> 1:22:04.840 of a second father for Bruce right after Bruce's training 1:22:04.840 --> 1:22:08.040 initiation to the League of Shadows. Only then does Race 1:22:08.160 --> 1:22:10.880 reveal his political goals to destroy Gotham and rid the 1:22:10.880 --> 1:22:15.240 world of corruption. So this is like the psychological is 1:22:15.280 --> 1:22:18.519 the first bit, then it's actually political, and then by 1:22:18.560 --> 1:22:20.639 the end it actually it goes all the way back 1:22:20.680 --> 1:22:24.800 into being truly psychological. Now I'm gonna I'm gonna read 1:22:24.840 --> 1:22:28.880 one paragraph from Graver, which is only because it has 1:22:28.920 --> 1:22:36.200 a very funny oh two word combination. In the ritual Kobis, 1:22:36.240 --> 1:22:38.960 we learned that rayshal Ghoul, a character introduced telling Lee 1:22:39.000 --> 1:22:42.400 In in nineteen seventy one, is in fact a zerzen 1:22:42.560 --> 1:22:47.160 Esque primitivist and terrorist determined to restore the balance of 1:22:47.240 --> 1:22:50.200 nature by reducing the earth's human population by roughly ninety 1:22:50.280 --> 1:22:52.479 nine percent. None of the villains in any of the 1:22:52.520 --> 1:22:55.519 three movies want to rule the world. They don't wish 1:22:55.560 --> 1:22:58.360 to have power over others or to create new rules 1:22:58.400 --> 1:23:01.760 of any sort, unquote. And I just really like the 1:23:01.840 --> 1:23:07.559 term deservesi esque to describe the seventies racial ghoul, which 1:23:07.600 --> 1:23:12.599 is a deeply, a deeply brain poisoned way to. 1:23:12.600 --> 1:23:14.000 Describe a comic book. 1:23:15.439 --> 1:23:21.799 Likeliar. John Zergen is an eco anarchist writer who certain 1:23:22.320 --> 1:23:25.240 sects of kind of social anarchist theorists liked to make 1:23:25.280 --> 1:23:25.680 fun of. 1:23:27.160 --> 1:23:27.320 Think. 1:23:27.400 --> 1:23:30.960 I think Great Graver's most devastating thing about the Primitivest 1:23:31.080 --> 1:23:33.639 was calling them all Marxists, because they're the only people 1:23:33.640 --> 1:23:35.879 on earth who say it's a program, not a critique. 1:23:37.600 --> 1:23:38.599 It's very funny. 1:23:38.760 --> 1:23:39.960 I think like one of the things that's kind of 1:23:40.000 --> 1:23:42.639 going on here is like everyone who's writing about superhero 1:23:42.760 --> 1:23:44.960 movies is also trying to settle their own grudges a 1:23:44.960 --> 1:23:45.360 little bit. 1:23:45.800 --> 1:23:49.519 And oh absolutely grudges in this is like one of 1:23:49.520 --> 1:23:52.880 Graverer's grudges that he was like like he was tear gassed, 1:23:53.320 --> 1:23:55.840 like very very close to a lot of where these 1:23:55.880 --> 1:23:58.920 things were shot, like a month before, and his second 1:23:59.000 --> 1:24:00.719 grudge is that he had to spend the whole fucking 1:24:00.800 --> 1:24:04.040 nineties arguing with a bunch of primitivists. He's very annoying 1:24:04.120 --> 1:24:10.400 it because yeah, so that those are his grudges going 1:24:10.439 --> 1:24:11.960 into And. 1:24:12.360 --> 1:24:15.280 I do believe his his kind of framing of the 1:24:15.360 --> 1:24:19.240 Nolan supervillains of not really having any desire to rule 1:24:19.280 --> 1:24:22.760 the world as ringing true. They they really only want 1:24:22.760 --> 1:24:25.280 to like wipe the slate clean. I think Graber correctly 1:24:25.320 --> 1:24:29.360 identifies Nolan's supervillains as being primarily some form of anarchist, 1:24:29.880 --> 1:24:33.599 just a very peculiar type that really only exists in 1:24:33.680 --> 1:24:38.320 Nolan's imagination. Graber describes them as, quote, they are the 1:24:38.360 --> 1:24:41.160 anarchists who believe that human nature is fundamentally evil and 1:24:41.240 --> 1:24:43.920 corrupt unquote. I think this has taken to its most 1:24:43.960 --> 1:24:47.160 obvious extent in The Dark Knight, with the Joker, who 1:24:47.200 --> 1:24:52.240 openly claims affiliation with anarchy and fetishizes destruction. His sick 1:24:52.320 --> 1:24:56.640 and twisted imagination is the real villain, even with the 1:24:56.680 --> 1:25:01.840 backdrop of the film's kind of deceptive war on terror frame. Now, 1:25:01.880 --> 1:25:03.599 between the production of The Dark Knight and The Dark 1:25:03.640 --> 1:25:04.480 Knight rises. 1:25:04.439 --> 1:25:05.759 The funniest thing happened. 1:25:06.320 --> 1:25:08.479 The economy completely collapsed in two thousand and eight, and 1:25:08.520 --> 1:25:10.880 it wasn't due to an eco terrorist cult or a 1:25:10.880 --> 1:25:14.519 clown set on a total negation. Instead, it was bankers 1:25:14.520 --> 1:25:17.120 and finance managers in Wall Street Bros. Who became the 1:25:17.200 --> 1:25:20.360 obvious villains in their quest to maintain the lie of 1:25:20.479 --> 1:25:23.400 endless growth. Millions of people lost their homes and source 1:25:23.479 --> 1:25:27.080 of income. So in response, there was a whole bunch 1:25:27.120 --> 1:25:29.599 of popular uprisings that took place all around the world. 1:25:30.040 --> 1:25:33.080 Graver lists regimes being toppled in the Middle East and 1:25:33.120 --> 1:25:37.800 people occupying squares everywhere from Cleveland to Karachi trying to 1:25:37.840 --> 1:25:41.439 create new forms of democracy. So there's this resurgence of 1:25:41.479 --> 1:25:46.400 constituent power, right, and this imagination driven kind of radical 1:25:46.680 --> 1:25:49.320 and largely non violent form of resistance, at least here 1:25:49.360 --> 1:25:52.000 in the States. And this is the sort of political 1:25:52.040 --> 1:25:56.920 situation which superhero universes can never really fully tackle because 1:25:57.160 --> 1:26:01.280 it can't exist within their own weird ptology. To quote 1:26:01.280 --> 1:26:03.920 Graver or quote in Nolan's world, something like occupy could 1:26:03.960 --> 1:26:05.960 only have been the product of some tiny group of 1:26:06.080 --> 1:26:09.760 ingenious manipulators who are really pursuing some secret agenda. Why 1:26:09.760 --> 1:26:11.400 does Bain wish to lead the people in a social 1:26:11.439 --> 1:26:13.120 revolution if he's just gonna nukee them all in a 1:26:13.120 --> 1:26:16.559 few weeks anyway, it's anyone's guess. He claims that before 1:26:16.560 --> 1:26:18.920 you destroy someone first, he must give them hope. So 1:26:19.120 --> 1:26:21.280 is the message that utopian dreams can only lead to 1:26:21.320 --> 1:26:26.160 nihilistic violence. Presumably it's something like that, but it's singularly unconvincing, 1:26:26.200 --> 1:26:28.000 since the plan to kill everyone came first and the 1:26:28.040 --> 1:26:31.519 revolution was a decorative afterthought. In fact, what happens to 1:26:31.520 --> 1:26:34.439 the city can only possibly make sense as a material 1:26:34.439 --> 1:26:37.880 echo of what's been most important, what's happening in Bruce 1:26:37.920 --> 1:26:39.160 Wayne's tortured brain. 1:26:42.000 --> 1:26:44.360 Yeah it's a good line, which. 1:26:44.320 --> 1:26:47.839 Yes, yeah, because in the end, Batman and the police 1:26:48.320 --> 1:26:51.080 rise from the abyss. Literally in both cases, both of 1:26:51.080 --> 1:26:54.880 them are trapped underground. They both rise from underground join 1:26:54.960 --> 1:27:00.000 forces to battle the people occupying outside of the Gotham 1:27:00.120 --> 1:27:03.320 City stock Exchange. Batman fix his own death by disposing 1:27:03.360 --> 1:27:06.479 of this nuclear bomb, and Bruce Wayne gets to live 1:27:06.520 --> 1:27:10.920 happily in Florence with the criminal Selina Kyle. And then 1:27:11.040 --> 1:27:14.760 a new new phony martyr legend is born in the 1:27:14.840 --> 1:27:17.519 role of Batman and people of Gotham are returned once 1:27:17.560 --> 1:27:20.880 again to the status quo. I'm gonna read kind of 1:27:20.880 --> 1:27:26.160 Graver's final kind of overview of the entirety of this message, 1:27:26.200 --> 1:27:28.479 right like, of what this thing is really trying to convey, 1:27:28.600 --> 1:27:30.800 right quote. If they're supposed to be a take home 1:27:30.800 --> 1:27:33.880 message from all of this, it must run something like, yes, 1:27:33.960 --> 1:27:36.639 the system is corrupt, but it's all we have anyway. 1:27:36.840 --> 1:27:39.320 Figures of authority can be trusted if they've first been 1:27:39.439 --> 1:27:44.000 chastised and endued terrible suffering. Normal police might let children 1:27:44.040 --> 1:27:46.439 die on the bridges, but the police who've been buried 1:27:46.439 --> 1:27:50.320 alive for weeks can employ violence. Legitimately, charity is much 1:27:50.320 --> 1:27:53.439 better than addressing structural problems. Any attempts to address to 1:27:53.439 --> 1:27:57.320 such structural problems, even through nonviolent civil disobedience, really is 1:27:57.320 --> 1:27:59.720 a form of violence, because that's all it could possibly be. 1:28:00.320 --> 1:28:04.520 Imaginative politics are inherently violent, and therefore there's nothing inappropriate 1:28:04.560 --> 1:28:08.200 If police respond by smashing protesters' heads repeatedly against the 1:28:08.280 --> 1:28:11.880 concrete as a response to occupy, this is nothing short 1:28:11.880 --> 1:28:13.720 of pathetic. When The Dark Knight came out to this 1:28:13.760 --> 1:28:15.439 in eight there was much discussion over whether the whole 1:28:15.439 --> 1:28:17.080 thing was really just a vast metaphor for the War 1:28:17.120 --> 1:28:19.280 on Terror? How far is it okay for the good 1:28:19.280 --> 1:28:22.600 guys America? Obviously to adapt the bad guy's methods. The 1:28:22.600 --> 1:28:24.880 filmmakers managed to respond to these issues and still produce 1:28:24.920 --> 1:28:27.200 a good movie. This is because the War on Terror 1:28:27.479 --> 1:28:30.440 actually was a battle of secret networks and manipulative spectacles. 1:28:30.680 --> 1:28:32.800 It began with a bomb and ended with an assassination. 1:28:33.520 --> 1:28:35.559 One can almost think of it as an attempt on 1:28:35.600 --> 1:28:38.680 both sides to actually enact a comic book version of 1:28:38.720 --> 1:28:43.400 the universe. Once real constituent power appeared on the scene, 1:28:43.560 --> 1:28:47.920 the universe shriveled into incoherence. Revolutions were sweeping the Middle East, 1:28:48.080 --> 1:28:50.640 and the US was still spending hundreds of billions of 1:28:50.640 --> 1:28:55.560 dollars fighting a ragtag bunch of seminary students in Afghanistan. Unfortunately, 1:28:55.560 --> 1:28:58.840 for Nolan, for all of his manipulative powers, the same 1:28:58.880 --> 1:29:01.439 thing happened to his world when even the hint of 1:29:01.520 --> 1:29:05.120 real popular power arrived in New York. So that that 1:29:05.200 --> 1:29:08.639 is kind of the essence of Graber's view of this movie. 1:29:08.760 --> 1:29:10.920 I think it's pretty good. This is a This is 1:29:11.160 --> 1:29:15.080 a pretty a pretty solid take on this now there's 1:29:15.160 --> 1:29:18.880 obviously people who have opinions that are less good than this. 1:29:20.800 --> 1:29:21.439 I'm gonna read. 1:29:21.479 --> 1:29:25.280 I'm gonna read this this right up from from these 1:29:25.320 --> 1:29:30.320 two guys, Jeff Sprosse and Zach Buchamp, who argue that 1:29:30.360 --> 1:29:35.439 Batman represents this symbolic defense of liberal democracy, which I 1:29:35.439 --> 1:29:38.040 think is true. But the way that they go about 1:29:38.040 --> 1:29:41.439 their analysis I think is heavily flawed, Because yes, I 1:29:41.479 --> 1:29:44.200 do think he represents a defensive liberal democracy, I just 1:29:44.200 --> 1:29:45.680 don't think that's necessarily. 1:29:45.200 --> 1:29:47.759 A good thing. Yeah. 1:29:47.960 --> 1:29:51.680 So they talk about how fear is the kind of 1:29:51.720 --> 1:29:55.400 the core emotion across all of Nolan's Batman films. Right, 1:29:55.600 --> 1:29:59.880 we have in Batman begins fear and as it takes 1:30:00.080 --> 1:30:02.599 the form of Scarecrows, you know, one of the main villains. 1:30:02.760 --> 1:30:05.080 But we also have this terror of there being a 1:30:05.200 --> 1:30:09.120 powerful criminal underworld which overwhelms the power of political and 1:30:09.160 --> 1:30:13.960 social intitutions that are meant to address such criminal underworlds. 1:30:14.720 --> 1:30:18.480 We have Batman, in his role is to fight injustice 1:30:18.479 --> 1:30:21.200 by turning quote fear against those who prey on the 1:30:21.280 --> 1:30:24.800 fearful right Batman is this is this terrifying symbol meant 1:30:24.840 --> 1:30:27.799 to restore the balance of fear between the anarchic private 1:30:28.240 --> 1:30:32.559 underworld and the gutless public spear to quote Jeffinzax right 1:30:32.680 --> 1:30:36.000 up quote. In The Dark Knight, Nolan continues his examination 1:30:36.160 --> 1:30:39.160 of the terror of anarchy, as well as the potential 1:30:39.200 --> 1:30:42.400 for the state and allied institutions to abuse their enormous power. 1:30:43.200 --> 1:30:46.000 Bain and each of Nolan's other villains attempt to exploit 1:30:46.040 --> 1:30:50.160 fear for ideological projects, revenge or simple fun. Batman aims 1:30:50.200 --> 1:30:53.439 to channel it to make his opponents legitimate grievances subjects 1:30:53.439 --> 1:30:57.400 for debate in an orderly system, rather than through violent resolution, 1:30:59.040 --> 1:31:02.639 which is not what Batman does. That man punches people. 1:31:05.360 --> 1:31:09.719 Were we watching the same movies quote to entrust Gotham 1:31:10.160 --> 1:31:12.120 to heroes with a face, as he says in The 1:31:12.160 --> 1:31:15.240 Dark Knight, and to democratize Batman as a symbol that 1:31:15.280 --> 1:31:18.799 can be embodied by anyone. That it's not that Christopher 1:31:18.840 --> 1:31:21.200 Nolan is taking a side in our political debates. He's 1:31:21.200 --> 1:31:26.360 simply defending a particular system through which we address them, 1:31:26.600 --> 1:31:30.800 which is nonsense of A writer from Forbes said that 1:31:30.840 --> 1:31:34.000 this analysis is quote a beautiful rebuttal to those critics 1:31:34.040 --> 1:31:37.240 who viewed the film as fascistic or as a critique 1:31:37.280 --> 1:31:41.000 of left wing populism, Batman as the defender of liberal democracy, 1:31:41.200 --> 1:31:45.559 not of conservatism or liberalism, but the system itself from 1:31:45.600 --> 1:31:48.680 the forces of fear and chaos. Gotham as an examination 1:31:48.720 --> 1:31:50.960 of the frailties and pressure points that make this system 1:31:51.000 --> 1:31:54.479 weak in the face of the unexpected and uncontrollable. While 1:31:54.560 --> 1:31:56.800 there is indeed both praise for the role of civil 1:31:56.800 --> 1:31:59.719 society in these films, there's also a portrait of economic 1:31:59.760 --> 1:32:03.640 inn quality that provides the brittleness needed for men like 1:32:03.720 --> 1:32:06.240 Baying to truly succeed. This is not a critique of 1:32:06.280 --> 1:32:08.120 the government or private sector as so much as it 1:32:08.160 --> 1:32:10.559 is a critique of the frailty and fragility of our 1:32:10.600 --> 1:32:14.160 system and its institutions, and the power of symbols to 1:32:14.320 --> 1:32:20.080 combat this fragility, which is a deeply a deeply liberal analysis. 1:32:20.080 --> 1:32:22.400 It's not even good, Like I mean, this is the thing, 1:32:22.439 --> 1:32:24.160 this is the thing that really pisses me off about this. 1:32:24.200 --> 1:32:28.320 So the cadre of liberal intellectuals that we've gotten in 1:32:28.360 --> 1:32:32.880 the last like twenty years, it's like, look, you don't 1:32:33.520 --> 1:32:38.600 have to be like unable to form coherent and that 1:32:38.800 --> 1:32:41.479 like it is it is not a precept of liberal 1:32:41.720 --> 1:32:45.040 like of like liberal intellectualism, that you are unable to 1:32:45.040 --> 1:32:47.400 form a coherent argument or do any piece of analizable 1:32:47.800 --> 1:32:49.720 like they used to be able to do this, and 1:32:49.720 --> 1:32:52.639 then at some point, like after the War on Terror, 1:32:52.840 --> 1:32:54.800 they just stopped. Yea, Now all we have is like 1:32:54.840 --> 1:32:56.720 matt Iglesias and it's like these I. 1:32:56.720 --> 1:32:58.760 Think, well, like this is what Greaver talks about when 1:32:58.800 --> 1:33:02.559 there's like a fundamental incoherhearrance, And I think this is 1:33:02.600 --> 1:33:05.120 really exemplified by like the structure of The Dark Knight. 1:33:05.160 --> 1:33:07.800 Rices It's a very messy film. The pacing is bad, 1:33:08.160 --> 1:33:11.920 the plot is very convoluted. It's it's so it's so plotting, 1:33:11.920 --> 1:33:14.240 which is often Nolan's kind of biggest failure as a 1:33:14.240 --> 1:33:17.479 as a filmmaker in my opinion, it's it's it's very 1:33:17.520 --> 1:33:22.360 structurally just confusing, whereas The Dark Knight is actually pretty clear. 1:33:23.040 --> 1:33:24.640 It still has a few of those weird plot like 1:33:24.760 --> 1:33:28.000 super plotty elements, but overall it's it's it's it's much clearer. 1:33:28.120 --> 1:33:30.439 But in the wake of the War on Terror and 1:33:30.479 --> 1:33:33.599 then the financial crash, there's this fundamental incoherence that kind 1:33:33.600 --> 1:33:37.280 of seeps into everything. I have two final takes to 1:33:37.600 --> 1:33:39.880 read say. I know, I know we are getting along here, 1:33:40.120 --> 1:33:42.240 but I think it's important to look at what the 1:33:42.280 --> 1:33:45.639 conservatives and the fascist rite actually said about this movie, 1:33:46.000 --> 1:33:49.200 beyond just the conspiracy rattled ramblings that we started this 1:33:49.240 --> 1:33:53.759 episode with. This is from The Daily Caller twenty twelve. 1:33:55.000 --> 1:33:57.240 The film is sympathetic to the concerns of the poor 1:33:57.680 --> 1:34:00.760 and points out that some who achieve well don't earn 1:34:00.800 --> 1:34:04.160 it legitimately. But these themes disappear as soon as the 1:34:04.240 --> 1:34:08.599 hulking terrorist Baine takes over Gotham City. All that criminals 1:34:08.600 --> 1:34:11.559 are released, rich people are executed in sham trials headed 1:34:11.600 --> 1:34:14.839 up by Baines's lunatic friends, government officials and police officers 1:34:14.880 --> 1:34:17.960 are killed or captured. Bain claims that he is solving 1:34:18.000 --> 1:34:20.840 inequality by leveling the playing field, but his true plan 1:34:20.920 --> 1:34:23.599 is to perpetuate mass murder by setting off a nuclear bomb. 1:34:24.840 --> 1:34:29.840 In this way, viewers see a familiar story unfold, one 1:34:29.880 --> 1:34:34.920 that's reminiscent of communist and fascist revolutions in Russia, Germany, Cambodia, 1:34:34.960 --> 1:34:38.559 and North Korea. No matter how legitimate criticisms of the economic, political, 1:34:38.560 --> 1:34:41.559 and social order may be, any revolution that shatters the 1:34:41.640 --> 1:34:46.080 rule of law or eliminates the market entirely will necessarily 1:34:46.120 --> 1:34:48.800 results in greater inequality, suffering, and death. 1:34:49.680 --> 1:34:52.160 It's so funny you can tell how on the defensive 1:34:52.200 --> 1:34:54.400 they are, like in the way you've occupied because yes, 1:34:54.439 --> 1:34:54.720 you have. 1:34:54.720 --> 1:34:57.519 These people going like wait, social inequality is real, but 1:34:57.720 --> 1:34:58.960 if you try to do anything to. 1:34:58.960 --> 1:35:00.920 It, it's also so f This is this is the 1:35:00.960 --> 1:35:03.680 interesting thing about like I think I think the fundamentally 1:35:03.680 --> 1:35:06.400 incoherence of it politically is that they've tried to graft 1:35:06.400 --> 1:35:09.000 the French Revolution onto Occupy because like, yes, yes, the 1:35:09.000 --> 1:35:11.800 two things that Occupy resolutely refused to do was one 1:35:12.080 --> 1:35:15.519 have a leader and two like do any kind of 1:35:15.560 --> 1:35:19.040 mass violence, like arguably outside of Oakland, but that wasn't 1:35:19.080 --> 1:35:20.719 even like but that was like ok, in Oakland. 1:35:20.800 --> 1:35:24.000 Sometimes they fought the cops, like in New York, Like now, 1:35:24.040 --> 1:35:24.639 the only. 1:35:24.439 --> 1:35:26.920 Bank window in New York that was broken the entire 1:35:26.960 --> 1:35:29.719 time was I think it was a Bank of America 1:35:29.760 --> 1:35:31.639 window that was broken when a cop smash of protest 1:35:31.720 --> 1:35:32.280 just head through it. 1:35:32.760 --> 1:35:35.680 Like that's it's that's why, that's why I really don't 1:35:35.720 --> 1:35:39.160 think the darknet rices isn't about Occupy it just like 1:35:39.360 --> 1:35:42.799 it just isn't It arose from similar conditions that Occupy 1:35:42.840 --> 1:35:45.120 arose from. And then in its final two months of 1:35:45.120 --> 1:35:48.439 filming they did some parallels to Occupy, but it is 1:35:48.600 --> 1:35:51.200 much more about the French Revolution, especially in like beans 1:35:51.240 --> 1:35:53.400 like a vanguard, like he is a leader of this 1:35:54.080 --> 1:35:56.479 there is there's no but there's no such role in Occupy. 1:35:56.760 --> 1:35:56.920 Now. 1:35:57.080 --> 1:35:59.439 During during the editing and final production of the film, 1:35:59.560 --> 1:36:02.519 obviously they realize that there is some obvious parallels here, 1:36:02.680 --> 1:36:05.400 which they do, which they did indulge in. But I 1:36:05.400 --> 1:36:07.000 mean most of the writing and the filming of this 1:36:07.160 --> 1:36:09.920 took place before Occupy. I think it just came from 1:36:09.920 --> 1:36:11.920 a very similar social place. 1:36:13.000 --> 1:36:13.200 Yeah. 1:36:13.200 --> 1:36:16.040 Also, though even as a French Revolution thing, it's incoherent because. 1:36:15.760 --> 1:36:19.240 It's like it's not like rose Beer got in there 1:36:19.280 --> 1:36:23.600 and was like this is all a secret plot executing beggars, 1:36:23.640 --> 1:36:26.720 Like it doesn't make any sense. It's like that's why 1:36:26.800 --> 1:36:30.519 it has that fundamental incoherence, right. Yeah, there's one other 1:36:30.560 --> 1:36:32.559 paragraph from the from the Daily Caller. Then we will 1:36:32.600 --> 1:36:37.559 read something from Breitbart, like the communist parties of real 1:36:37.600 --> 1:36:41.479 authoritarian states, Baine and his Cohurtz represent a new ruling 1:36:41.520 --> 1:36:44.200 class that pretends to care about equality and liberation, but 1:36:44.240 --> 1:36:48.479 in practice resorts to oppression and extreme violence. The film's 1:36:48.520 --> 1:36:51.639 good guys are Batman and the police officers of Gotham 1:36:51.800 --> 1:36:55.200 who bravely go to war to prevent Baine's genocide. 1:37:00.040 --> 1:37:02.200 These guys have, These guys have never had more than 1:37:02.240 --> 1:37:05.800 two thoughts like consecutively. It's purely impressive. 1:37:06.520 --> 1:37:09.240 If the political message of The Dark Knight Risis seems muddled, 1:37:09.400 --> 1:37:13.360 which it does, it's because real life problems can't be 1:37:13.479 --> 1:37:17.000 solved with Batman. There is no well funded superhero with 1:37:17.040 --> 1:37:21.479 a glut of fancy gadgets and moral incruptibility. No, A 1:37:21.560 --> 1:37:24.280 core part of these films is that Batman is morally corrupt. 1:37:24.320 --> 1:37:24.840 This is sorry. 1:37:26.280 --> 1:37:30.560 Nor are there villains in America as damning and transparently 1:37:30.680 --> 1:37:36.679 evil as Bane. The film doesn't offer much. The film 1:37:36.720 --> 1:37:41.000 doesn't offer much of a practical answer for what. The 1:37:41.000 --> 1:37:43.599 film doesn't offer much of a practical answer for what 1:37:43.640 --> 1:37:47.479 to do about inequality, social unrest or terrorism. 1:37:47.760 --> 1:37:52.439 Great great work, daily collar God. Now where do they 1:37:52.479 --> 1:37:54.280 find these guys? I guess I find these guys from 1:37:54.320 --> 1:37:56.759 failed actors. So makes sense. 1:37:57.280 --> 1:38:00.759 So you mentioned Bush as being an obvious villain well 1:38:01.439 --> 1:38:06.760 Breight part disagrees, obviously bright part disagrees. Here is here's 1:38:06.800 --> 1:38:11.479 our final take on The Dark Knight Rises. Quote Bain, 1:38:11.960 --> 1:38:14.519 a hulk of a man burning with resentment against a 1:38:14.560 --> 1:38:19.880 society whose only provocation is being prosperous, generous, welcoming, and 1:38:19.960 --> 1:38:27.040 content instead of miserable like him. That's not Bain's gripes, 1:38:27.120 --> 1:38:31.919 but anyway, in Gotham sewers, Bain recruits those like himself, 1:38:32.200 --> 1:38:38.040 the insecure thumbsuckers, raging with a sense of entitlement, desperate 1:38:38.040 --> 1:38:42.360 to justify their own laziness and failure, and to flaunt 1:38:42.400 --> 1:38:46.760 a false sense of superiority through oppression, violence, terror, and 1:38:46.880 --> 1:38:53.800 ultimately total and complete destruction. As expected, The Dark Knight 1:38:53.920 --> 1:38:57.280 Rises is a love letter to Gotham City. It's flawed 1:38:57.320 --> 1:39:02.080 but ultimately decent people. It's industry and generosity, all of 1:39:02.120 --> 1:39:06.120 which are by products of liberty, free markets, and capitalism. 1:39:06.360 --> 1:39:09.160 In other words, watch this movie in other words. 1:39:09.960 --> 1:39:13.120 In other words, just as The Dark Knight was a 1:39:13.160 --> 1:39:17.599 touching tribute to an embattled George W. Bush, who chose 1:39:17.640 --> 1:39:20.600 to be seen as a villain in order to be 1:39:20.680 --> 1:39:25.080 the hero, Rises is a love letter to an imperfect America, 1:39:25.160 --> 1:39:28.479 that in the end always does the right thing. And 1:39:28.520 --> 1:39:32.120 Nolan loves the American people, the wealthy producers who are 1:39:32.160 --> 1:39:35.519 more often than not trickled down their hard earned winnings, 1:39:35.840 --> 1:39:38.960 the workaday folks who keep our world turning a financial 1:39:39.000 --> 1:39:42.160 system worth saving because it benefits it's all, and those 1:39:42.280 --> 1:39:45.519 everyday warriors who offered their lives for the greater good 1:39:45.760 --> 1:39:49.200 with every punch of a clock. Nolan's love for this 1:39:49.280 --> 1:39:52.760 country is without qualifiers, and is symbolized in all of 1:39:52.760 --> 1:39:56.679 its unqualified sincerity, in the form of a beautiful young 1:39:56.800 --> 1:40:00.880 child sweetly singing a complete version of the Star Spangled Banner, 1:40:01.479 --> 1:40:05.479 just before Occupy attempts to fulfill its horrific vision of 1:40:05.479 --> 1:40:09.839 what equality really means. Nolan, Sorry, I can't. 1:40:11.680 --> 1:40:12.240 Like this. 1:40:12.360 --> 1:40:16.040 Is this one passage, this whole thing is. It's such 1:40:16.080 --> 1:40:19.800 a great explanation if you weren't around for for how 1:40:19.880 --> 1:40:22.760 the Trump guys just completely blew aside all of the 1:40:22.760 --> 1:40:25.759 old George Bush coalition because all of the George Bush 1:40:25.800 --> 1:40:28.479 guys were fucking like this. They all talked like this. 1:40:28.640 --> 1:40:34.600 It was this like absolutely insufferable, like since it's completely 1:40:34.640 --> 1:40:38.800 completely sincere nonsense, it's crazy. It's still all this ship 1:40:38.920 --> 1:40:44.040 because it fundamentally misunderstands Nolan's a filmmaker. He's purposely juxtaposing 1:40:44.320 --> 1:40:47.719 a British child that's singing the star spangled banner at 1:40:47.720 --> 1:40:51.679 a sporting event with this destruction inherent to America. He's he's, 1:40:51.760 --> 1:40:54.639 he is, He's making these things kind of combat each 1:40:54.640 --> 1:40:57.040 other like this is this is actually pretty good framing 1:40:57.560 --> 1:41:02.280 and this guy fundamentally must understands this. Nolan's genius is 1:41:02.280 --> 1:41:05.719 a filmmakers well, Nolan's genius as a filmmaker is, without question, 1:41:06.080 --> 1:41:09.880 the pacing, the editing, the performances, the humanity of the 1:41:09.920 --> 1:41:13.320 duc Knight Rises will be talked about for decades, which 1:41:13.360 --> 1:41:15.960 it doesn't. This is by far one of his worst films. 1:41:16.360 --> 1:41:18.640 This is widely seen as one of one of his 1:41:18.680 --> 1:41:22.880 worst films. The editing, pacing, performances are all heavily criticized. 1:41:22.920 --> 1:41:26.439 This is actually like a bad movie. I do like 1:41:26.479 --> 1:41:29.200 the juxtaposition of the star spangle banner at the sporting 1:41:29.240 --> 1:41:31.720 event with this like spectacle of destruction. I think that 1:41:31.720 --> 1:41:32.360 plays very. 1:41:32.280 --> 1:41:37.160 Well, but like that is this is come on, come on, 1:41:37.360 --> 1:41:38.400 like these are. 1:41:38.280 --> 1:41:40.280 The people who and this is this is the thing, 1:41:40.280 --> 1:41:42.400 this is this, this is why the sort of trumpest 1:41:43.360 --> 1:41:46.719 like the sort of sort of like ironic detachment stuff 1:41:47.280 --> 1:41:50.519 became so popular because these are the people who listen 1:41:50.560 --> 1:41:53.120 to Born in the USA and are like this rules 1:41:53.240 --> 1:41:55.000 this rue like this is this is this is about 1:41:55.000 --> 1:41:58.840 how America is good. And it's just like like these people. 1:41:58.760 --> 1:42:01.240 They have nothing. There's nothing going on with them. There's 1:42:01.240 --> 1:42:03.120 just just like there's nothing going on in their heads. 1:42:03.280 --> 1:42:05.880 They don't have any ideas whatsoever. They just have that 1:42:06.040 --> 1:42:08.639 like they just have this like reflexive flag warship stuff 1:42:08.640 --> 1:42:13.280 and that it's awful. It's it's like the whole fucking 1:42:13.280 --> 1:42:17.919 American right was like this. It's just like, yeah, Soland. 1:42:17.680 --> 1:42:18.840 Trumpy has just destroyed them. 1:42:18.840 --> 1:42:21.720 Because this is a really good example of nothing of 1:42:21.760 --> 1:42:25.680 the conservative political conditions that led to populace to takeover right. 1:42:25.680 --> 1:42:28.520 We have all of these guys who are lampooning populism 1:42:29.320 --> 1:42:33.120 and had this very like deeply sincere neo conservative outlook, 1:42:33.240 --> 1:42:36.840 which then got all got decimated in three years by 1:42:36.920 --> 1:42:40.360 Trump's very kind of basic childish rhetoric just just blew 1:42:40.400 --> 1:42:43.320 this stuff out of out of the water. I think 1:42:43.479 --> 1:42:45.679 this is all this stuff is a very fascinating snapshot 1:42:45.720 --> 1:42:48.120 into the politics of ten years ago. I know there's 1:42:48.160 --> 1:42:49.640 a lot of zoomers who listened to this who may not. 1:42:49.680 --> 1:42:52.040 It's been this politically kind of engaged in twenty twelve. 1:42:52.240 --> 1:42:54.280 All this stuff is a very good look at that. 1:42:55.439 --> 1:42:58.679 And I know this is too long, but the final 1:42:58.720 --> 1:43:01.799 final thing to just like that. We will return, as 1:43:02.040 --> 1:43:05.040 as all good superhero stories do, return to the status 1:43:05.120 --> 1:43:10.639 quo of my paranoia. Conspiracy Reader magazine, which also had 1:43:10.680 --> 1:43:13.760 a review for The Cabin in the Woods movie Uh, 1:43:14.080 --> 1:43:17.280 which it thinks is a secret Illuminati message about how 1:43:17.439 --> 1:43:20.920 there's secretly control rooms that are that are like navigating 1:43:20.960 --> 1:43:22.960 your entire life. There's like people in control rooms who 1:43:23.000 --> 1:43:26.200 are like controlling every every spect of your life. The 1:43:26.479 --> 1:43:30.000 Cabin in Woods was an ironic admission of this pretty good, 1:43:30.080 --> 1:43:33.679 Pretty good. Our technic credit controllers and manipulators are crass 1:43:33.680 --> 1:43:36.920 and evil pretenders, able to get off only spectacles of 1:43:36.960 --> 1:43:39.760 pain and torture. Pretty funny. There's some quite racist stuff 1:43:39.760 --> 1:43:41.479 in the middle, which is not not even gonna mention. 1:43:42.680 --> 1:43:44.599 Oh yeah, that's the everything. It was like people were 1:43:44.640 --> 1:43:47.040 really racist. People are still really racist. People are still 1:43:47.080 --> 1:43:47.639 quite racist. 1:43:47.720 --> 1:43:50.799 Shit that like like you could say, ship back, like 1:43:50.800 --> 1:43:53.599 like people who are ostensibly liberals, would say shit back 1:43:53.600 --> 1:43:56.719 then that like would get you like thrown off a building. 1:43:56.760 --> 1:43:59.559 Today we have an article by someone who says, quote, 1:43:59.680 --> 1:44:03.000 my author worked with Jimmy Carter on the submarine one 1:44:03.080 --> 1:44:07.160 Killer and chased flying saucers for Project Blue Book, which 1:44:07.240 --> 1:44:08.880 is a fascinating article. 1:44:11.320 --> 1:44:13.360 Then it talks it also talks. 1:44:13.160 --> 1:44:16.400 About here that a cern is building a matrix, like 1:44:16.439 --> 1:44:18.040 you know, like the movie The Matrix. 1:44:18.400 --> 1:44:22.880 Fucking god we have when you do an episode about 1:44:23.120 --> 1:44:26.479 about the should what's the silliest thing we really should 1:44:26.520 --> 1:44:29.960 do an episode about certain conspiracies, because yeah, they are 1:44:30.000 --> 1:44:31.559 they are certainly quite amusing. 1:44:31.640 --> 1:44:34.719 There's one other aspect in this article that I wanted 1:44:34.720 --> 1:44:35.120 to mention. 1:44:35.640 --> 1:44:37.240 Here's the serns to Oh here it is here? 1:44:37.280 --> 1:44:37.680 What it is? 1:44:38.040 --> 1:44:38.160 This? 1:44:38.160 --> 1:44:42.479 It is in the Alister Crowley section of the article. No, no, 1:44:44.360 --> 1:44:47.560 you know, I I think we've actually suffered enough. I 1:44:47.640 --> 1:44:51.120 will I will let you imagine what this guy what 1:44:51.240 --> 1:44:54.679 this guy says about Alister Crowley, Hitler and beef Vendetta. 1:44:56.120 --> 1:44:59.559 Oh no, so I'll let you imagine what that says. 1:44:59.560 --> 1:45:02.240 Because we we've gone on too long. I'm happy you 1:45:02.240 --> 1:45:05.280 were able to join us in our deep dive into 1:45:05.760 --> 1:45:08.600 the twenty twelve disaster. The Dark Knight Rise is not 1:45:08.720 --> 1:45:11.320 very good movie. And instead, if you want to watch 1:45:11.320 --> 1:45:15.719 a Batman film about politics and Christmas, just watch Batman Returns. 1:45:15.840 --> 1:45:18.360 That's what I'm doing this week, So get your friends together. 1:45:18.600 --> 1:45:21.240 Watch Danny DeVito vomit black goo for two hours watching 1:45:21.280 --> 1:45:24.800 Michelle Feifer's Catwoman in a latex suit. It is much 1:45:24.960 --> 1:45:28.000 much better. So that does it for us today here 1:45:28.200 --> 1:45:31.840 it could happen here. I hope we lead a little 1:45:31.840 --> 1:45:37.759 bit something about constituent power police superheroes and how CERN 1:45:37.840 --> 1:45:41.280 is building a matrix and this predictive programming targeting the 1:45:41.320 --> 1:45:52.240 next Winter Olympics. 1:45:58.000 --> 1:46:01.520 Hello everyone, and welcome to it could have here podcasts 1:46:01.560 --> 1:46:04.839 about the world falling apart and people putting it back together. 1:46:05.000 --> 1:46:08.120 Today I'm lucky to be joined by Margaret Kildury. She 1:46:08.240 --> 1:46:10.080 is the host of Live Up The World Is Dying, 1:46:10.680 --> 1:46:13.640 a podcast what feels like the end Times? And we 1:46:13.720 --> 1:46:16.600 are going to talk about bug out bags, don't me, Margaret. 1:46:16.520 --> 1:46:19.920 Woo bug out bags or bill bags? Yes? Or I 1:46:19.920 --> 1:46:22.120 bet they have other names. Okay, wait, can I tell 1:46:22.120 --> 1:46:25.439 you my favorite? Yeah? I hate me? Okay, the First Preppers. 1:46:25.479 --> 1:46:28.719 I ever met were these like weird cool anarchists twenty 1:46:28.840 --> 1:46:33.160 years ago they had oh shit gear or OSG in 1:46:33.200 --> 1:46:35.639 their basement. I love that. But yeah, that's great. 1:46:35.840 --> 1:46:38.400 It's basically what you're talking about, Like, it's the it's 1:46:38.439 --> 1:46:40.320 the thing that you go for when things are going 1:46:40.320 --> 1:46:40.639 to shit. 1:46:41.280 --> 1:46:42.000 Yeah. Yeah. 1:46:42.040 --> 1:46:44.960 And I think the reason we're talking about this right 1:46:45.280 --> 1:46:48.000 is A because it's entertaining. It's always fun to engage 1:46:48.000 --> 1:46:51.280 in hypotheticals. B Because we've got Margaret here, because she's 1:46:51.360 --> 1:46:53.320 very knowledgeable on this stuff, and that's what she covers 1:46:53.320 --> 1:46:55.040 on If the World is Dying. If you haven't listened 1:46:55.040 --> 1:46:56.000 to that podcast, you should. 1:46:56.439 --> 1:46:57.000 It's very good. 1:46:57.000 --> 1:47:01.719 It's got lots of like sensible preparedness focused content. 1:47:02.479 --> 1:47:05.639 It's a fair, fair summary. Muggret, I hope. 1:47:05.680 --> 1:47:05.760 So. 1:47:06.280 --> 1:47:06.479 Yeah. 1:47:06.520 --> 1:47:08.479 Our whole thing is that we're basically trying to talk 1:47:08.479 --> 1:47:10.400 about community prep I'm not the only host in one 1:47:10.439 --> 1:47:12.959 of three hosts. Yes, we try to talk about community 1:47:12.960 --> 1:47:16.200 preparedness rather than individual preparedness, or rather how the two 1:47:16.280 --> 1:47:19.280 are not at odds with each other, like how what's 1:47:19.320 --> 1:47:21.200 best for the individual is to be part of a 1:47:21.200 --> 1:47:24.519 functioning community, and how like the bunker mentality will get 1:47:24.520 --> 1:47:26.720 you killed. So one of my favorite things in the 1:47:26.760 --> 1:47:31.120 world is talking shit on preparedness done wrong. And since 1:47:31.240 --> 1:47:36.559 most of the preparedness space skews at best center right, 1:47:37.080 --> 1:47:40.400 but also far right, there's lots of it done wrong 1:47:40.439 --> 1:47:43.960 that we can talk shit on. Like, for example, this 1:47:44.040 --> 1:47:44.920 is me setting you up for. 1:47:44.960 --> 1:47:47.880 Yeah, yeah, bug out bags there it is. Yeah, that's 1:47:47.880 --> 1:47:51.519 like a layup and a dunk basketball, understand it. 1:47:51.880 --> 1:47:52.800 We're really good at it. 1:47:53.120 --> 1:47:55.440 Yeah, there's nothing that we like more than sportsball. 1:47:56.080 --> 1:47:56.679 Yeah, okay. 1:47:56.960 --> 1:47:59.360 So the reason we talk about this today is because 1:47:59.439 --> 1:48:01.400 I have done a lot of time recently in refugee 1:48:01.400 --> 1:48:04.880 camps helping out, helping people, feeding people, giving them blankets, 1:48:05.520 --> 1:48:08.719 playing with their children, doing all the things. And obviously 1:48:08.720 --> 1:48:11.360 everyone who who enters these camps comes with a bag, right, 1:48:11.400 --> 1:48:13.160 They bring a bag with them. They can generally have 1:48:13.200 --> 1:48:15.639 one sort of carry on size bag when they enter custody, 1:48:16.640 --> 1:48:18.719 and that's generally all you can carry when you're moving 1:48:18.720 --> 1:48:24.560 across the desert mountain ranges of Baja California and Serthern, California. 1:48:24.880 --> 1:48:27.679 And I was spend the day there and it was cold, 1:48:27.720 --> 1:48:29.240 and it was wet, it was miserable, and I was 1:48:29.280 --> 1:48:30.720 trying to keep people warm, and I was trying to 1:48:30.720 --> 1:48:34.280 build shelters all day, and I was trying to just 1:48:34.400 --> 1:48:36.600 do things along with my friends. Obviously, this is by 1:48:36.640 --> 1:48:38.559 no means a solo effort. It's a great group of 1:48:38.560 --> 1:48:40.720 people who you've all heard about if you listen to 1:48:40.760 --> 1:48:41.280 this podcast. 1:48:42.240 --> 1:48:43.920 We've been out there all day. And then I got 1:48:43.920 --> 1:48:44.879 back and. 1:48:45.080 --> 1:48:47.760 Just because I hadn't you know, had a difficult enough day, 1:48:47.800 --> 1:48:49.040 I lugged onto Twitter dot. 1:48:48.840 --> 1:48:53.080 Com at dot com day to get worse. 1:48:53.280 --> 1:48:55.320 Yeah, exactly, I thought, what can I do? Let's be 1:48:55.400 --> 1:48:57.680 pissed off at a fucking stranger on the internet you 1:48:57.720 --> 1:48:59.479 don't care about and you've never met, but you let 1:48:59.479 --> 1:49:00.719 them make you angry anyway. 1:49:01.240 --> 1:49:02.479 That's why that's what I did. 1:49:03.040 --> 1:49:06.120 I loved on, and I loved on promptly to be 1:49:06.120 --> 1:49:08.479 greeted by some prick with I guess not your fault. 1:49:08.479 --> 1:49:10.479 I supposedly didn't be a prick whatever. Someone someone who 1:49:10.479 --> 1:49:15.679 hadn't quite like, someone whose idea of preparedness was heavily 1:49:15.680 --> 1:49:18.439 influenced by the film Red Dawn and not by reality, 1:49:20.479 --> 1:49:23.080 which is like ninety percent of the people in that space. 1:49:24.439 --> 1:49:26.479 But this person had, you know, this this kit with 1:49:26.520 --> 1:49:31.160 a with a gas mask with a folding AR fifteen right, 1:49:31.200 --> 1:49:33.400 with one of those law tactical folding things, so you 1:49:33.400 --> 1:49:37.639 can like break the buffer tube with seven or eight 1:49:37.720 --> 1:49:43.120 magazines of ammunition. Like just like it just the sort 1:49:43.120 --> 1:49:45.840 of stuff that, yeah, sure you would need to do 1:49:46.120 --> 1:49:49.760 like one sustained firefight and then then what are you 1:49:49.800 --> 1:49:52.640 going to do? But like it just really struck me 1:49:52.680 --> 1:49:56.479 that the the juxtaposition between these two things that I 1:49:56.560 --> 1:49:58.960 have seen people have to quote unquote bug out or 1:49:59.000 --> 1:50:02.160 oh shit or whatever. I myself have had to leave 1:50:02.200 --> 1:50:04.559 a place where I was go to a refuge camp 1:50:04.560 --> 1:50:08.360 for a few days a few years ago, and I've 1:50:08.520 --> 1:50:13.200 never seen a situation where a folding assault right for 1:50:13.400 --> 1:50:15.679 would be that useful to me. And I have seen 1:50:15.720 --> 1:50:17.560 a lot of people who could really fucking use a 1:50:17.600 --> 1:50:22.439 sleeping bag or coat or a toy for their child 1:50:22.439 --> 1:50:24.800 because their child is crying, and bring any toys, you know, 1:50:24.960 --> 1:50:28.280 and lots of people don't have any preparedness stuff at all. 1:50:28.479 --> 1:50:30.760 That's fine, you know, we'll start somewhere, but like, if 1:50:30.800 --> 1:50:33.280 you're going to do this, I want you to do 1:50:33.280 --> 1:50:34.680 it in a way that might be useful to you. 1:50:34.880 --> 1:50:37.759 And so that is why I have asked Margaret Kiljoy 1:50:37.840 --> 1:50:38.639 to come and help me. 1:50:39.640 --> 1:50:42.120 And the right and the problem of course with the 1:50:42.160 --> 1:50:44.479 scenario that we discussed is that instead of having a 1:50:44.520 --> 1:50:47.719 folding ar, they should have a folding AK forty seven 1:50:47.800 --> 1:50:49.759 because then there's no need to break a buffert. 1:50:50.479 --> 1:50:53.080 Yeah that's okay, Yeah, yeah no, and you can scavenge 1:50:53.120 --> 1:50:56.519 ammunition from the Cubans. Yeah, I see what you're doing. Great, Yeah, 1:50:56.600 --> 1:50:57.200 yeah no. 1:50:57.400 --> 1:51:00.920 And although actually, if I was gonna deep into gun 1:51:00.960 --> 1:51:02.759 stuff and talk about how like people who are obsessed 1:51:02.760 --> 1:51:04.599 with AK forty sevens while living in the United States 1:51:04.640 --> 1:51:07.920 are also not doing preparedness right because anyway. 1:51:07.840 --> 1:51:09.920 Yeah yeah, and actually ak's break all the time. I 1:51:09.920 --> 1:51:12.080 have personally seen that happen, and you cannot, in fact, 1:51:12.360 --> 1:51:13.360 not maintain them at all. 1:51:13.720 --> 1:51:16.599 Yeah, and there's more parts available for a hares. But 1:51:16.680 --> 1:51:19.200 the point is that most of the time you don't 1:51:19.240 --> 1:51:23.559 need firearms for most crises. Many crises are made worse 1:51:23.600 --> 1:51:25.760 by having a firearm. And Okay, so, like a lot 1:51:25.760 --> 1:51:28.240 of your background is with refugee stuff, and you've had to, 1:51:28.479 --> 1:51:31.000 you know, escape to a refugee center, and you work 1:51:31.040 --> 1:51:33.639 in refugee situations all the time. One of my main 1:51:33.680 --> 1:51:35.640 backgrounds is that I lived out of a backpack for 1:51:35.680 --> 1:51:38.040 a long time when I was a crosspunk, right, I 1:51:38.080 --> 1:51:41.160 was a homeless hitchhiker who you know, hopped freight trains 1:51:41.320 --> 1:51:43.880 and slept under bridges and things like that. And I 1:51:43.920 --> 1:51:45.600 come from more of a position of privilege than a 1:51:45.600 --> 1:51:47.040 lot of people who do that. I chose to do 1:51:47.080 --> 1:51:50.080 it as part of an activism lifestyle and stuff, you know. 1:51:50.560 --> 1:51:52.920 And so I'm not trying to like get stolen valor here, 1:51:52.920 --> 1:51:55.920 but I spent a very long time living outside. And 1:51:55.960 --> 1:51:58.800 the people who live outside all the time, who have 1:51:58.880 --> 1:52:02.599 only a backpack know what goes in the backpack really well. 1:52:03.080 --> 1:52:07.720 And you don't see homeless people with guns, and it's 1:52:07.720 --> 1:52:10.519 not because they're not legally allowed to have them. People. 1:52:10.600 --> 1:52:13.080 I mean, well that's part of it in some situations, right, 1:52:13.120 --> 1:52:14.960 it's you know, you don't have a safe place of 1:52:15.000 --> 1:52:18.000 story and something. It is a lot more complicated, but 1:52:18.160 --> 1:52:21.240 like you're even talking about a group of people who 1:52:21.280 --> 1:52:24.680 often have to resort to violence to defend themselves and 1:52:25.800 --> 1:52:28.639 largely not using firearms to do it, because in most 1:52:28.720 --> 1:52:33.240 situations they're more trouble than they're worth. Because someone who's 1:52:33.280 --> 1:52:35.240 living outside is going to have to deal with cops 1:52:35.240 --> 1:52:37.200 all the time. Someone, And this is what you were 1:52:37.240 --> 1:52:39.360 talking about when when we were talking about getting ready 1:52:39.360 --> 1:52:42.040 for this episode. It's like, well, let's say you have 1:52:42.160 --> 1:52:45.040 your ear ar and you approach the border. 1:52:45.840 --> 1:52:48.880 Yeah, you're getting engaged really fast by like seventy five 1:52:48.880 --> 1:52:51.080 Border patrol guys who have been training their whole life 1:52:51.120 --> 1:52:53.519 for this. Not saying that they're particularly like a well 1:52:53.560 --> 1:52:56.519 trained or efficient, but they have been waiting for the 1:52:56.600 --> 1:52:59.519 one person with an assault rifle who they can fire 1:52:59.600 --> 1:53:01.439 at a very long time. 1:53:01.760 --> 1:53:04.760 Yeah. And the only purpose of having a firearm is 1:53:04.800 --> 1:53:06.720 if it makes you and the people that you care 1:53:06.760 --> 1:53:08.639 about more likely to survive. 1:53:09.640 --> 1:53:12.639 Yes, which is doesn't happen if the entire Border patrol 1:53:12.680 --> 1:53:16.080 is shooting at you, Right, that's bad. 1:53:16.439 --> 1:53:18.960 That's a worse time. Yeah. No, It's like it's like 1:53:19.000 --> 1:53:23.040 I always carried a legal knife, you know. Yeah, Like 1:53:23.320 --> 1:53:26.200 wherever I was, I have a legal length knife and 1:53:26.240 --> 1:53:29.519 that was fine. Yeah EF fishing. 1:53:29.960 --> 1:53:32.760 Yeah, look into knife flaws though before you before, like 1:53:32.800 --> 1:53:35.479 a knife flows in America almost as complicated as gun laws. 1:53:35.560 --> 1:53:39.040 And we live in California. You can have a cane sword, yeah. 1:53:38.960 --> 1:53:41.120 That's right, but I can open carry a large machete 1:53:41.160 --> 1:53:42.519 on my belt as long as I don't attempt to 1:53:42.520 --> 1:53:43.000 conceal it. 1:53:43.600 --> 1:53:47.360 Oh yeah, regularly. I used to hitchhike with a machete. 1:53:47.400 --> 1:53:50.400 So yeah, yeah, yeah, I like there were times that 1:53:50.439 --> 1:53:52.080 I've been doing stuff with a machete. 1:53:52.200 --> 1:53:54.280 Yeah, exactly, I needed. I was kind of a campaign 1:53:54.439 --> 1:53:55.760 I did actually once get a. 1:53:56.000 --> 1:53:58.000 I think it's a part ranger of someone like I 1:53:58.080 --> 1:54:00.000 was coming in from free diving and when you freedom 1:54:00.080 --> 1:54:00.760 if you always have a. 1:54:00.800 --> 1:54:02.680 Knife, because I've experienced this. 1:54:02.760 --> 1:54:05.000 Actually when you dive and you get tangled in fishing 1:54:05.040 --> 1:54:07.920 nets and your breathold diving. 1:54:08.280 --> 1:54:09.720 You need to get out so you don't die. 1:54:09.800 --> 1:54:11.960 Yeah, you have a knife and you cut yourself out. 1:54:12.640 --> 1:54:14.760 You're supposed to have that knife. So yes, yes, I'm 1:54:14.760 --> 1:54:17.880 supposed to have that knife. So yeah, you can open 1:54:17.960 --> 1:54:20.120 carry a knife. It just depends on the county. You're 1:54:20.120 --> 1:54:22.599 in a California, but in San Diego County, Okay. 1:54:22.640 --> 1:54:25.000 So to talk about bugout bags though, yes, what we 1:54:25.120 --> 1:54:27.479 do want them for is going to be different person 1:54:27.520 --> 1:54:31.559 a person. And what I recommend that any preparedness minded 1:54:31.600 --> 1:54:35.320 person or any person I hope more people become preparedness minded, 1:54:35.960 --> 1:54:38.640 is to think about the crises that could happen that 1:54:38.680 --> 1:54:41.080 are likely, and think about what you would want and 1:54:41.080 --> 1:54:43.480 how you would deal with them. And my argument up 1:54:43.480 --> 1:54:46.840 front is that this can reduce anxiety if you do 1:54:46.880 --> 1:54:50.200 it right, if you fixate on these things forever. Like 1:54:50.240 --> 1:54:52.200 a lot of people don't engage withparedness because they don't 1:54:52.200 --> 1:54:53.560 want to be anxious about it. They don't want to 1:54:53.560 --> 1:54:54.640 think about a forest fire. 1:54:54.920 --> 1:54:55.160 Right. 1:54:56.560 --> 1:54:58.680 But if you I've said this before, maybe even on 1:54:58.720 --> 1:55:00.280 this show, I'm not sure. It was like when I 1:55:00.360 --> 1:55:02.600 lived in a cabin really in the woods, like I 1:55:02.600 --> 1:55:04.240 currently live in a house in the woods, but there's 1:55:04.240 --> 1:55:06.600 like a little bit of buffer. But I, you know, 1:55:06.680 --> 1:55:09.040 built a twelve by twelve cabin and like in that, 1:55:09.240 --> 1:55:11.440 I cut down two small trees and built a cabin, right, 1:55:11.880 --> 1:55:14.840 And so I worried about forest fire, and so I 1:55:15.720 --> 1:55:19.400 thought about what to do, which was make sure that 1:55:19.440 --> 1:55:21.560 I always had like you know, some sort of radio 1:55:21.680 --> 1:55:25.880 and or sell communication available to me, keep a bag 1:55:26.000 --> 1:55:28.400 ready with all the stuff I need, keep make sure 1:55:28.400 --> 1:55:30.520 that my car is half a tank of gas. And 1:55:30.560 --> 1:55:33.000 that's it. That's all I was going to do to prepare. 1:55:33.080 --> 1:55:35.880 There's more you can do. That's all I was going 1:55:35.920 --> 1:55:39.320 to do, so I stopped worrying about forest fire, and 1:55:40.560 --> 1:55:43.400 so I think, done right, a go bag or a 1:55:43.400 --> 1:55:46.560 bug out bag or preparedness in general can reduce our anxiety. 1:55:46.880 --> 1:55:49.040 And the thing that I think people get wrong is 1:55:49.080 --> 1:55:54.080 that for most people, moving over land by yourself and 1:55:54.120 --> 1:56:01.800 surviving in nature is not a likely reci response to crisis. Yes, 1:56:02.560 --> 1:56:04.880 there are some times where that will be true, and 1:56:04.960 --> 1:56:06.960 even like you're talking about, like working at you know, 1:56:06.960 --> 1:56:08.400 in the border, where people are having to like build 1:56:08.440 --> 1:56:10.880 shelters and things like that. But for most people, I 1:56:10.880 --> 1:56:13.080 don't even say put a sleeping bag in your go 1:56:13.120 --> 1:56:16.440 bag because size might be more important than that. Yeah, 1:56:16.720 --> 1:56:19.480 having other warm stuff and emergency blankets and things like that, 1:56:19.520 --> 1:56:24.680 I do absolutely advocate, you know, But then again, I 1:56:24.800 --> 1:56:26.760 often make sure that I have a sleeping bag around 1:56:26.760 --> 1:56:28.280 because I do live in the middle of the woods, 1:56:28.320 --> 1:56:29.880 and if my cars were broken and there was a 1:56:29.880 --> 1:56:33.240 bad thing, I would have to go over land ten 1:56:33.320 --> 1:56:34.400 miles to get anywhere. 1:56:34.560 --> 1:56:37.080 You know, Yeah, because RS situation is not the same 1:56:37.120 --> 1:56:38.640 as everything, and I think that's right. 1:56:38.720 --> 1:56:42.160 But for most people, I advocate that you think about 1:56:42.160 --> 1:56:45.200 your bug out bag as your get out of town 1:56:45.240 --> 1:56:47.640 for a weekend bag. It is the you live in 1:56:47.640 --> 1:56:51.040 a hurricane area. It is a blizzard's coming. It is 1:56:51.120 --> 1:56:53.640 your stalker X is in town and you don't want 1:56:53.680 --> 1:56:56.840 to be around. It is a I decided all of 1:56:56.840 --> 1:56:58.760 a sudden, I'm going to go visit my family and 1:56:58.800 --> 1:57:02.680 I don't want to pack. You know, it is just 1:57:02.760 --> 1:57:07.720 a it's you're more likely to spend a night in 1:57:07.760 --> 1:57:10.959 your car on the road somewhere, like in a blizzard. 1:57:11.040 --> 1:57:14.160 Let's say, you know, so, what do you need to 1:57:14.320 --> 1:57:16.880 spend the night in the car in your car in 1:57:16.920 --> 1:57:19.800 the snow, And the answer is not that much. You 1:57:19.840 --> 1:57:23.840 need water and you need warmth. Food is like great, right, 1:57:24.280 --> 1:57:26.000 yeah we can kind of. I mean, you should have 1:57:26.040 --> 1:57:28.200 a little bit of snacks to so you why not 1:57:28.280 --> 1:57:29.160 have snacks around? 1:57:29.480 --> 1:57:32.040 Yeah, it's in a stressful situation, having something to eat, 1:57:32.080 --> 1:57:33.720 it helps, it calms you down, It helps you deal 1:57:33.800 --> 1:57:34.720 with that stress. 1:57:35.160 --> 1:57:38.840 Yeah. And one of the other things that we were 1:57:38.840 --> 1:57:42.000 talking about is we're talking about how you know, Okay, 1:57:42.000 --> 1:57:46.400 so like the basic level that I advocate, I advocate 1:57:46.440 --> 1:57:48.720 actually even more than having like your your bug out 1:57:48.720 --> 1:57:52.400 bag is having a smaller pouch that is your emergency bag, 1:57:52.920 --> 1:57:55.440 and that goes into whatever other backpack or purse or 1:57:55.480 --> 1:57:57.600 anything else you're carrying around. And I actually like make 1:57:57.640 --> 1:58:01.400 these and distribute them to my friends and stuff. Oh 1:58:01.400 --> 1:58:04.000 here's a fun tip. If you're the prepper in your 1:58:04.040 --> 1:58:07.120 family or friend group when it comes time to holiday presence, 1:58:07.600 --> 1:58:10.440 if you give them preparedness stuff that has to be 1:58:10.480 --> 1:58:13.880 on top of whatever else you give them. I guess 1:58:13.960 --> 1:58:17.720 you can't just give them your weird niche stuff. Yeah, 1:58:17.760 --> 1:58:19.680 like you have to give them what they want, as 1:58:19.720 --> 1:58:21.480 well as the wind up radio, you know. 1:58:21.680 --> 1:58:25.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's fair if sad and you can't 1:58:25.640 --> 1:58:29.160 just recycle gear that you wanted to, try to just 1:58:29.200 --> 1:58:30.600 give it to your aunt till sent thing. 1:58:31.160 --> 1:58:33.520 I mean you can you just also give other stuff. 1:58:33.520 --> 1:58:37.880 You can just each a bad nissoor nephew or whatever. Yeah, 1:58:38.160 --> 1:58:41.120 non binary, try sibling. 1:58:41.680 --> 1:58:45.560 So. I say that these emergency kits are three different things. 1:58:45.640 --> 1:58:48.520 They are a hygiene kit, because like the thing that 1:58:48.560 --> 1:58:51.120 I need the most often when I'm suddenly didn't prepare 1:58:51.120 --> 1:58:53.480 and I'm suddenly somewhere and I'm staying out late is 1:58:53.520 --> 1:58:57.040 like a folding toothbrush, right, or like some wet wipes 1:58:57.080 --> 1:59:00.840 in a packet, or you know, I don't know, like 1:59:01.240 --> 1:59:02.400 nail clippers or something. 1:59:02.840 --> 1:59:05.760 Yeah, like if you I'm a person who used insulin, right, 1:59:05.800 --> 1:59:07.760 So like I have a lot of bags insulin in 1:59:07.800 --> 1:59:10.440 and there it's in most of my bags because I'm 1:59:10.480 --> 1:59:11.640 up Shake Creek without it. 1:59:11.960 --> 1:59:13.960 Yeah, it is better to have it, you know. Yeah, 1:59:13.960 --> 1:59:15.800 And I'm very lucky. 1:59:15.520 --> 1:59:17.400 To have access to inculin and even have some spend 1:59:17.440 --> 1:59:20.320 what everyone does, because pharmaceutical industry is terrible. 1:59:20.760 --> 1:59:22.640 It is. Yeah, that's actually one of the hardest things 1:59:22.760 --> 1:59:26.400 when talking to people about preparedness is like getting more 1:59:26.560 --> 1:59:29.440 of your medication is very complicated, and a lot of 1:59:29.440 --> 1:59:33.680 the methods that people should consider are not legal, and 1:59:33.720 --> 1:59:34.960 I'm not going to advocate them. 1:59:35.200 --> 1:59:36.720 It is legal to buy medicine, I think for your 1:59:36.720 --> 1:59:38.960 own personal usage in countries that are not the United 1:59:39.000 --> 1:59:40.480 States when you're traveling there anyway. 1:59:40.800 --> 1:59:44.400 Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, So you want hygiene, you 1:59:44.440 --> 1:59:46.480 want a basic first aid kit, like kind of on 1:59:46.520 --> 1:59:49.640 the like booboo kit level, right, which is as if 1:59:49.640 --> 1:59:52.120 it's like not important, but actually, like you just don't 1:59:52.120 --> 1:59:54.360 want Infections can get real bad. So you just want 1:59:54.400 --> 1:59:56.480 to make sure that you have the ability to clean 1:59:56.520 --> 2:00:00.440 a small wound and treat it right and uh, what 2:00:00.640 --> 2:00:04.240 is it. It's hygiene, it's medical, and then it's survival stuff. 2:00:04.520 --> 2:00:07.320 And for me, this is just like tiniest amounts of 2:00:08.160 --> 2:00:10.440 One of the cool things about preparedness is that the 2:00:10.480 --> 2:00:13.080 little first things you do are so much more likely 2:00:13.080 --> 2:00:16.280 to be useful than the complicated things later. Right, Like 2:00:17.080 --> 2:00:21.920 having a big lighter is so much more likely to 2:00:21.920 --> 2:00:25.680 be useful than flint and steel and fire starter and 2:00:25.720 --> 2:00:27.160 all of the bells and whistles. 2:00:27.240 --> 2:00:29.000 Yeah, do you left my flint steel? But you're right, 2:00:29.040 --> 2:00:32.760 it is, Oh, I exponentially more useful. Like I've been 2:00:33.120 --> 2:00:35.040 so like I've been at the border a week, right, 2:00:35.080 --> 2:00:38.040 people are called it's very windy. I have a flint 2:00:38.080 --> 2:00:40.240 steel in my truck. I have used that zero times. 2:00:40.480 --> 2:00:42.800 I have gone through an entire eight pack of big lighters. 2:00:42.840 --> 2:00:47.960 I've refilled my Zippo twice, given away all my lighters. Yeah, 2:00:48.080 --> 2:00:51.880 because yeah, when your code in fact, you're not inclined 2:00:51.960 --> 2:00:54.240 to start shaving little pieces off a large metal rod. 2:00:54.600 --> 2:00:58.520 Yeah, exactly, And like I keep little bits of fire 2:00:58.600 --> 2:01:01.240 starter and things like that in the emergency kits. Basically, 2:01:01.320 --> 2:01:04.040 anything that is like light and cheap and useful goes 2:01:04.080 --> 2:01:06.760 into these kids. For me, you know, but the stuff 2:01:06.760 --> 2:01:09.560 that I prioritize is stuff like the first lighter is 2:01:09.600 --> 2:01:13.480 more useful than the second one, you know. Yeah, yeah, Margaret. 2:01:13.520 --> 2:01:16.080 Do you know what's probably not light, certainly not cheap 2:01:16.200 --> 2:01:19.600 and rarely useful gold? 2:01:19.880 --> 2:01:20.080 Gold. 2:01:20.160 --> 2:01:23.080 That's right yet gold, you've known it. But let's hear 2:01:23.720 --> 2:01:28.839 about gold. All right, we're back. That was an apercentth 2:01:28.880 --> 2:01:31.120 that you don't need. But Margaret was about to pivot, 2:01:31.120 --> 2:01:32.840 I think, to telling you some more things that you 2:01:32.880 --> 2:01:35.360 do need, right, So. 2:01:35.320 --> 2:01:38.840 Go ahead, Margaret. Okay, So tiny little emergency kit. You 2:01:38.880 --> 2:01:41.480 just put it in everything, and it's just like it's 2:01:41.520 --> 2:01:43.640 always useful, and it's like everyone I give these two 2:01:43.760 --> 2:01:45.560 is always a little bit like, oh thanks, And then 2:01:45.560 --> 2:01:47.840 about a year later they're like, oh I was at 2:01:47.880 --> 2:01:51.960 this protest and someone cut themselves or just some really minor, 2:01:52.040 --> 2:01:54.280 strange random thing. They're like, it always comes up that 2:01:54.280 --> 2:01:56.800 it's really useful that I have this tiny little flashlight 2:01:56.880 --> 2:02:02.160 in a bag always all right, yeah, your and and okay, 2:02:02.200 --> 2:02:05.800 so there's that. And then if you want, you could 2:02:05.880 --> 2:02:08.560 have a designated bug out bag and you keep it 2:02:08.600 --> 2:02:10.640 in the front closet or you keep it under your bed, 2:02:10.760 --> 2:02:12.760 or you keep it wherever is like kind of useful 2:02:12.760 --> 2:02:14.720 to you. Some people might keep them in their vehicles. 2:02:14.720 --> 2:02:16.839 That really depends on where you live. I wouldn't necessarily 2:02:16.840 --> 2:02:18.800 advocate it in a lot of places because vehicles are 2:02:18.840 --> 2:02:22.160 more broken into and also have more temperature fluctuations, and 2:02:22.200 --> 2:02:25.080 things like advil and like over the counter medications aren't 2:02:25.120 --> 2:02:30.480 like they don't do so great with like wild temperature fluctuations. Okay, 2:02:30.560 --> 2:02:33.560 so you get yourself a bag, and what kind of 2:02:33.600 --> 2:02:36.160 bag really depends on what you're talking about. Like we 2:02:36.280 --> 2:02:38.960 were showing each other our bags before it. 2:02:39.480 --> 2:02:43.120 Yeah, that's what a little insight into our interactions off mic. 2:02:43.640 --> 2:02:47.000 Yeah, and uh, and I'll describe mine, then you describe yours. 2:02:47.080 --> 2:02:50.240 I'll and I'll describe mine. You describe yours, and then 2:02:50.280 --> 2:02:51.560 say why you have it, and then I'll say why 2:02:51.560 --> 2:02:54.640 I have mine? Okay, you got this. I basically have 2:02:54.800 --> 2:02:58.760 like a regular day pack computer bag. It just a 2:02:58.920 --> 2:03:02.160 there's no waste bell, it's just it's designed hole the laptop. 2:03:02.480 --> 2:03:06.200 That's my bug out bag. What I have is a mystery. 2:03:07.200 --> 2:03:08.640 It's a thirty two liter bag. 2:03:09.360 --> 2:03:11.680 It's called a scree thirty two For those of you 2:03:11.680 --> 2:03:14.600 who want to be just like me, and I have 2:03:14.640 --> 2:03:17.920 it because I really like the carriage system. Mystery round 2:03:18.040 --> 2:03:20.840 Us is just like a yoke, so it carries like 2:03:20.880 --> 2:03:22.560 a frame backpack, but it isn't big and bulky. 2:03:22.920 --> 2:03:24.120 Yeah, and that's cool. 2:03:24.640 --> 2:03:26.400 I've used it, Like I think I've used this bag 2:03:26.440 --> 2:03:28.280 on every continent in the world apart from the Antarctic. 2:03:28.360 --> 2:03:29.360 Like, it's just a. 2:03:29.240 --> 2:03:31.520 Bag that I can put stuff in that is a 2:03:31.600 --> 2:03:35.000 size that it's not obnoxious, and it works for me 2:03:35.200 --> 2:03:37.920 for almost everything. I day hike with it, I go 2:03:38.040 --> 2:03:39.640 on urban nights with it. I use it as my 2:03:39.680 --> 2:03:43.280 carry on on the plane. Yeah, it's just a useful 2:03:43.320 --> 2:03:47.080 bag that is not covered in molly and multi caam 2:03:47.200 --> 2:03:50.520 and such things. Yeah, and I know it works for me, 2:03:50.640 --> 2:03:53.040 Like I've used it for a long time, and I 2:03:53.080 --> 2:03:55.360 know that it's suitable for my body with heavyweights. 2:03:55.680 --> 2:03:59.280 Yeah no, And like I love I love bags, and 2:03:59.320 --> 2:04:01.360 I will happily geek out about bags, and like that 2:04:01.360 --> 2:04:03.680 bag is a me too. It's pretty nice. And this 2:04:03.760 --> 2:04:06.360 is like my least favorite backpack, right, I have like 2:04:06.400 --> 2:04:08.800 other backpacks, Like my day hiking bag is like a 2:04:08.800 --> 2:04:12.600 twenty five leter you know, actually has a waste strap. 2:04:12.600 --> 2:04:15.080 And I like really like it, but I keep it 2:04:15.160 --> 2:04:18.440 packed with my day hiking stuff, you know, And so 2:04:19.360 --> 2:04:24.200 you do a lot of outdoor sports, yes, yeah, yeah, 2:04:24.240 --> 2:04:27.640 and so it really easily doubles as all of that, right. 2:04:28.040 --> 2:04:31.880 Yeah, exactly, Like I'm you know, most weekends, you know, 2:04:32.080 --> 2:04:33.640 I try and sleep outside at least. 2:04:33.440 --> 2:04:34.040 Once a month. 2:04:34.520 --> 2:04:36.880 So yeah, you know, I just sort of have that 2:04:36.960 --> 2:04:39.280 stuff anyway, because it's part of my day to day. 2:04:39.160 --> 2:04:43.520 Life and mine is designed from the period of my 2:04:43.600 --> 2:04:47.680 life where I basically would go to whatever anarchist coffee 2:04:47.680 --> 2:04:49.520 shop was in whatever town and just hang out there 2:04:49.520 --> 2:04:52.600 and work all day, right yeah, and so like and 2:04:52.680 --> 2:04:54.200 I was like, and I used to have a bug 2:04:54.200 --> 2:04:56.360 out bag that was like a little bit bigger. It 2:04:56.440 --> 2:04:58.280 was like a tactical bag. It was a three day 2:04:58.280 --> 2:05:01.040 assault pack, you know, and I like perfect, And to 2:05:01.040 --> 2:05:02.560 be fair, I lived in a cabin in the woods 2:05:02.600 --> 2:05:05.480 and it was twenty twenty in the odds of major 2:05:05.920 --> 2:05:10.800 military crisis were much higher, and you know, but like, 2:05:10.880 --> 2:05:12.960 but right now, I'm just like, this is my bag 2:05:13.160 --> 2:05:16.080 that comes with me when I go to my friend's 2:05:16.120 --> 2:05:18.920 house or when I go see my family. And because 2:05:18.960 --> 2:05:21.800 it's the important thing is that you have the bag 2:05:21.840 --> 2:05:25.480 that is available, like it. The piece of gear that 2:05:25.560 --> 2:05:27.640 you have is always better than the piece of gear 2:05:27.680 --> 2:05:28.160 you don't have. 2:05:28.320 --> 2:05:30.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah, you don't have to save up two 2:05:30.480 --> 2:05:32.760 hundred bucks for you know, a mystery round you and 2:05:32.760 --> 2:05:33.320 I'll spray bag. 2:05:33.720 --> 2:05:36.840 Right, But if your thing is being outside all the time, 2:05:37.360 --> 2:05:42.640 like you know, you should have those things, right yeah, 2:05:42.920 --> 2:05:47.080 And okay, so what I put in my the Everyone's 2:05:47.120 --> 2:05:49.520 gonna have really different stuff in their bug out bag. 2:05:49.640 --> 2:05:51.840 But some of the lists that I have as my 2:05:52.000 --> 2:05:55.000 like kind of like core of it that I would 2:05:55.080 --> 2:05:58.640 recommend that most people would want to have some version of. 2:05:59.160 --> 2:06:00.800 And you should add things and we could talk about 2:06:00.800 --> 2:06:04.760 these things. Your passport and print copies of any essential 2:06:04.840 --> 2:06:08.720 records such as your animal's rabies vaccine card and medication 2:06:09.360 --> 2:06:12.120 and things like that. This is the stuff to help 2:06:12.160 --> 2:06:15.320 you ease bureaucracy as you move through the world. This 2:06:15.520 --> 2:06:17.120 is actually a thing you need to be careful with 2:06:17.240 --> 2:06:19.280 because then sometimes you don't want to bring your passport 2:06:19.320 --> 2:06:21.200 everywhere you go, right, you don't want to lose. 2:06:21.040 --> 2:06:21.680 It, you know. 2:06:22.920 --> 2:06:24.840 But if it's your bug out bag that's waiting for 2:06:24.920 --> 2:06:27.200 you in case of an emergency, I think that's a 2:06:27.280 --> 2:06:30.080 decent place to keep it. Yes, I agree. You want 2:06:30.120 --> 2:06:33.280 an encrypted USB stick with copies of all these important 2:06:33.320 --> 2:06:36.560 documents such as your driver's license, your passport, house and 2:06:36.680 --> 2:06:40.160 vehicle titles or rental agreements, insurance information, contact information for 2:06:40.240 --> 2:06:43.800 family and friends, vaccination records for your animals, and the like. 2:06:43.880 --> 2:06:47.400 It clearly shows that I have an animal and not kids. 2:06:47.440 --> 2:06:49.840 I'm sure there's other stuff that you would Yeah. 2:06:49.960 --> 2:06:52.400 I mean, this is just making me think of I 2:06:52.880 --> 2:06:55.600 ran into a guy the other day who had come 2:06:55.640 --> 2:06:58.400 to the US with his dog or a patrol wouldn't 2:06:58.400 --> 2:07:02.520 process him along his dog, so volunteers kind of looked 2:07:02.560 --> 2:07:04.720 after his dog while he was protested and then returned 2:07:04.760 --> 2:07:07.040 to his dog to him. Yeah, but now he's going 2:07:07.120 --> 2:07:10.240 to have to go through the process of certifying the 2:07:10.360 --> 2:07:11.520 dog's vaccinations. 2:07:11.600 --> 2:07:13.200 Maybe the dog will have to get them again. 2:07:13.800 --> 2:07:15.640 Luckily, he and the dog are on a road trip 2:07:15.720 --> 2:07:18.160 to their final home with the place where they want 2:07:18.160 --> 2:07:20.040 to live, where they're meeting up with friends and families, 2:07:20.040 --> 2:07:22.320 so that they're having a great trip across the country 2:07:22.400 --> 2:07:26.920 right now. Like, yeah, that just having easing that transition 2:07:27.000 --> 2:07:29.400 through bureaucracy by having those documents to hand, I'm sure 2:07:29.440 --> 2:07:30.120 would have been great. 2:07:30.640 --> 2:07:33.120 Yeah, and like, Honestly, the more I read about people 2:07:33.200 --> 2:07:35.880 dealing with refugee crisis and like, oh, I don't know 2:07:36.040 --> 2:07:40.560 the right to return various places, the more you can 2:07:40.680 --> 2:07:43.080 prove like the ownership of the stuff you own and 2:07:43.160 --> 2:07:47.320 things like that. Yes, yeah, it can be very easy 2:07:47.520 --> 2:07:50.520 to become like. 2:07:51.440 --> 2:07:53.720 I understand that lots of this bureocracy exists to make 2:07:53.760 --> 2:07:56.680 people legible and therefore taxable by the state. Right, if 2:07:56.680 --> 2:07:59.440 we're talking from an anarchist perspective, I understand why it exists, 2:08:00.160 --> 2:08:02.880 James Scott a lot recently. If that fair enough there, 2:08:03.520 --> 2:08:08.600 but I in a scenario where the state exists, which 2:08:08.640 --> 2:08:11.320 is the one we are in, then there are advantages 2:08:11.400 --> 2:08:14.720 to being legible and understendable by the state, and certain 2:08:14.760 --> 2:08:17.480 disadvantages to being eligible to the state when you're trying 2:08:17.520 --> 2:08:18.440 to get your house back. 2:08:19.240 --> 2:08:21.840 And even like again my time as a as a 2:08:21.920 --> 2:08:26.840 krusty traveler my twenties and into my thirties, the single 2:08:27.000 --> 2:08:30.720 most useful thing that I carried was my driver's license 2:08:30.760 --> 2:08:33.320 without warrants, because I used to have my ID run 2:08:33.360 --> 2:08:36.840 every single day. Because actually it's actually part of the 2:08:36.920 --> 2:08:39.480 reason I have a stranger version to carrying a hiking 2:08:39.560 --> 2:08:44.480 style backpack around often is because I learned when you 2:08:45.000 --> 2:08:47.800 look like a punk and you have a travel like 2:08:47.880 --> 2:08:53.920 a hiking backpack, you are now the cops main target. Yes, yeah, 2:08:54.040 --> 2:08:56.680 yeah yeah, and so like whereas when I have like 2:08:56.760 --> 2:08:59.320 a computer bag, I'm not the cops main target, and 2:08:59.360 --> 2:09:04.240 that makes my life fasier, you know. Okay, small amounts 2:09:04.240 --> 2:09:06.680 of emergency food, such as protein bars that you want 2:09:06.680 --> 2:09:09.120 to like, swap out every couple of months. I recommend 2:09:09.440 --> 2:09:12.200 putting in the ones that you don't like because otherwise 2:09:12.200 --> 2:09:14.720 you'll eat them, because otherwise you'll be like, oh, I 2:09:14.760 --> 2:09:16.720 could go tasty snack. 2:09:17.040 --> 2:09:19.880 Yeah, yeah, this is sorry. Just before we recorded a 2:09:20.120 --> 2:09:22.120 bar from this bag that I've been showing you. 2:09:22.680 --> 2:09:23.760 Yeah. Yeah. 2:09:24.440 --> 2:09:27.120 There's a product called a Humanitarian Daily Ration, which is 2:09:27.800 --> 2:09:28.920 a vegan emory. 2:09:28.680 --> 2:09:31.880 That they give to refugees. Oh wow, yeah, there's great. 2:09:32.200 --> 2:09:33.080 Everyone can eat them. 2:09:33.480 --> 2:09:35.080 Yeah, They're very good to have, and I have those 2:09:35.120 --> 2:09:37.560 for emergency food because if one can eat them, ready, 2:09:37.600 --> 2:09:38.920 do I feel like I want to eat them? 2:09:39.280 --> 2:09:43.240 So yeah, I've been recently keeping I haven't eaten one yet. 2:09:43.240 --> 2:09:46.640 I've been keeping these flavorless emergency ration bars, like the 2:09:46.840 --> 2:09:50.160 lifeboat rations. Yeah, they're just like I think like oil 2:09:50.360 --> 2:09:55.200 and sugar and flour or something. Oh sounds yeah, and 2:09:55.320 --> 2:09:57.200 it's like, you know what, it's three days worth of 2:09:57.280 --> 2:10:02.080 food at twelve hundred calories a day, barely three but whatever. Yeah, okay, 2:10:02.120 --> 2:10:05.600 So I recommend having that and you know, making sure 2:10:05.640 --> 2:10:10.560 to swap that out. Overall, I advocate not putting in 2:10:10.760 --> 2:10:12.840 things that will go bad, because you are going to 2:10:12.880 --> 2:10:15.240 forget about this until it becomes a habit for you 2:10:15.360 --> 2:10:18.480 to check it every month or so. Yeah. Okay. A 2:10:18.600 --> 2:10:22.000 travel hygiene kit with toothbrush, floss, toothpaste, moist tallets, foam 2:10:22.080 --> 2:10:24.440 ear plugs for sleeping in noisy environments. That one is 2:10:24.560 --> 2:10:28.800 like way more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I am. 2:10:29.840 --> 2:10:31.600 And it's a time in my life when I was 2:10:32.040 --> 2:10:34.640 mostly living in my car, traveling around France racing bicycles. 2:10:35.080 --> 2:10:38.000 I got caught in a snowstorm along with a number 2:10:38.000 --> 2:10:40.720 of other people who were traveling in various vehicles, and 2:10:41.280 --> 2:10:43.600 some of them were traveling in order to make an 2:10:43.600 --> 2:10:47.440 asylum claim, and we all got to this refugee camp 2:10:47.440 --> 2:10:49.640 where basically we're sleeping on the floor of a large building. 2:10:49.680 --> 2:10:50.920 And I did not sleep for. 2:10:51.120 --> 2:10:54.480 Days because people had children and you know, it's loud, 2:10:54.520 --> 2:10:56.040 and like, yeah, those air plugs would have been the 2:10:56.120 --> 2:10:56.960 most important thing. 2:10:57.280 --> 2:10:59.680 Yeah yeah. And it was like I actually started carrying 2:10:59.720 --> 2:11:01.280 them just because of going to shows when I used 2:11:01.320 --> 2:11:03.680 to do that more. And then I was like, oh, 2:11:03.760 --> 2:11:06.120 these are really useful in all kinds of situations. They 2:11:06.280 --> 2:11:11.440 cost like nothing and they save your hearing. The bang 2:11:11.520 --> 2:11:14.240 for your buck, the non bang for your buck is 2:11:14.720 --> 2:11:19.680 very good. Yeah, the buck is great. Uh, nail clippers, 2:11:19.760 --> 2:11:22.240 your daily wear, makeup, and anything else you might need 2:11:22.280 --> 2:11:24.880 to goes in your hygiene kid, any prescription or over 2:11:24.920 --> 2:11:28.200 the counter medications that you rely on. And one thing 2:11:28.280 --> 2:11:31.520 that came up from a doctor friend of mine recommended. 2:11:31.640 --> 2:11:33.600 When I was first started making these kids for my friends, 2:11:33.640 --> 2:11:36.200 I was like buying bulk aspirin and putting it into 2:11:36.240 --> 2:11:40.240 little drug baggies you know, yeah, smut. And my friend 2:11:40.360 --> 2:11:43.520 was like, you need to put blister packs in instead 2:11:44.160 --> 2:11:51.720 blister packs being the like little yeah, individually individually labeled ones. Yeah. Yeah, 2:11:51.800 --> 2:11:57.080 to explain this thing, yeah, yeah, we're professionals. Yeah, because 2:11:57.120 --> 2:11:59.680 the police have less cause for suspicion if you were 2:11:59.760 --> 2:12:03.840 certain and this is clearly advil, it says, so it 2:12:04.000 --> 2:12:06.840 is packaged in a way that is not convenient for 2:12:06.880 --> 2:12:10.560 people to make their own packages. Yeah, and so and 2:12:10.640 --> 2:12:12.400 actually it's funny is that of all the ones that 2:12:12.480 --> 2:12:14.560 I put into people's things, the only thing I haven't 2:12:14.560 --> 2:12:17.960 been able to get blister packed is caffeine. Because I 2:12:18.040 --> 2:12:20.400 put caffeine into these things because a lot of people 2:12:20.400 --> 2:12:22.240 are addicted to it, and also because it's useful to 2:12:22.280 --> 2:12:24.400 be able to stay awake in certain environments. And so 2:12:24.480 --> 2:12:29.120 I actually put in like different like caffeine powder drinks 2:12:29.480 --> 2:12:32.840 or caffeine gum or other things. Yes, yeah, it's going 2:12:32.920 --> 2:12:36.320 to say, get MRI caffeine gum. Yeah. And then also 2:12:36.720 --> 2:12:38.200 and I give them to my friends who are about 2:12:38.200 --> 2:12:41.400 to drive sleepy. Is like yes, And that's the main 2:12:41.600 --> 2:12:44.040 use that I have had. It's amazing. I don't drink caffeine. 2:12:44.080 --> 2:12:45.800 It's amazing how much caffeine I have on me at 2:12:45.840 --> 2:12:51.280 any given time. Yeah, A change of socks and underwear, 2:12:51.400 --> 2:12:53.920 and these should be like climate appropriate, especially like wool 2:12:54.000 --> 2:12:56.680 socks are like the most useful thing in the world. 2:12:56.800 --> 2:12:59.560 Just as a general rule, I think that a packable 2:12:59.680 --> 2:13:03.960 range jacket and or poncho is incredibly useful here. A 2:13:04.040 --> 2:13:05.960 lot of people like the ponchos that are sort of 2:13:06.000 --> 2:13:07.960 a slightly more military style because you can use them 2:13:07.960 --> 2:13:09.600 as a tarp and make a shelter if you need. 2:13:10.560 --> 2:13:14.440 That might be overkill for your particular environment. You might 2:13:14.480 --> 2:13:17.000 also just have, like your hiking rain jacket that goes 2:13:17.040 --> 2:13:21.160 in there. A puffy packable warm top is a little 2:13:21.200 --> 2:13:24.560 bit of a like bonus item. It's I think having 2:13:24.600 --> 2:13:27.440 a warm upper layer is really important for a lot 2:13:27.480 --> 2:13:31.600 of it's until you've slept outside without a sleeping bag, 2:13:31.760 --> 2:13:33.640 you have no idea how cold it is in the 2:13:33.720 --> 2:13:37.920 summer to sleep outside. Yeah, on the ground. Especially whenever 2:13:37.960 --> 2:13:39.840 I'm watching movies or reading books and like the kid 2:13:39.920 --> 2:13:41.560 runs away from home or they're like on the and 2:13:41.640 --> 2:13:43.160 they go and they sleep in the woods, I'm like, 2:13:43.240 --> 2:13:46.400 the fuck they did? They did not sleep that night? Yeah? 2:13:46.640 --> 2:13:49.600 Yeah, you lie on your side, holding yourself, wondering while 2:13:49.600 --> 2:13:50.800 you made these choices in life. 2:13:51.200 --> 2:13:51.400 Yeah. 2:13:52.120 --> 2:13:53.920 Yeah, I might add that if you're going to have 2:13:54.080 --> 2:13:56.720 a specific like a puffy jacket for this, and you 2:13:56.760 --> 2:13:58.800 don't own a puffy jacket yet. A couple of things 2:13:58.840 --> 2:14:03.560 to consider that generally, compressing down will help make it 2:14:03.640 --> 2:14:06.240 lose some of its loft, so it will be less lofty. Yeah, 2:14:06.960 --> 2:14:08.600 so you don't want to keep that stuff compressed for 2:14:08.640 --> 2:14:11.520 a very long time or super compressed, right, don't cram 2:14:11.560 --> 2:14:15.200 it into the smallest ball. Remember that when you buy 2:14:15.280 --> 2:14:17.720 down jackets or the baffles which are the sewing lines 2:14:17.760 --> 2:14:20.880 across it, like, those are areas that are not insulated, right, 2:14:20.920 --> 2:14:22.920 So you don't actually want the ones with the with 2:14:23.040 --> 2:14:24.920 one hundred little baffles going down them. 2:14:25.000 --> 2:14:26.200 Oh interesting, that makes sense. 2:14:26.760 --> 2:14:31.360 Yeah uh. And then synthetic insulation does a lot better 2:14:31.640 --> 2:14:37.160 with with with with wetness. It retains some of its 2:14:37.360 --> 2:14:40.960 insulating properties. And my final thing with down jackets, I 2:14:41.000 --> 2:14:43.880 think a lot about down jackets. I'm sorry, is get 2:14:43.960 --> 2:14:46.320 one that is a size bigger than you would normally 2:14:46.440 --> 2:14:50.200 get for like, oh yeah, because you don't really want 2:14:50.200 --> 2:14:51.960 to be taking stuff off when you're cold. 2:14:52.120 --> 2:14:53.040 You want a jacket that you. 2:14:53.080 --> 2:14:56.000 Can just put on over all your stuff. We call 2:14:56.040 --> 2:14:58.160 it a ballet Parker in the in the in the 2:14:58.240 --> 2:15:01.720 sort of mountaineering community. But it's like a static thing. Right, 2:15:01.760 --> 2:15:04.040 So you're hiking your mount to climbing, you stop, you 2:15:04.160 --> 2:15:07.120 immediately check that thing on over everything that keeps you 2:15:07.240 --> 2:15:08.840 warm until you start moving again. 2:15:09.320 --> 2:15:13.200 That makes sense to me, I advocate personally, I advocate 2:15:13.240 --> 2:15:16.440 for synthetic. I advocate because it's cheaper, you can leave 2:15:16.520 --> 2:15:20.280 it compressed, and because it insulates better in the wet 2:15:20.520 --> 2:15:24.160 and it is much heavier for its and larger for 2:15:24.320 --> 2:15:29.080 its insulating value. But for me, like having spent a 2:15:29.160 --> 2:15:31.520 lot of my life like sleeping and sleeping bags with 2:15:31.600 --> 2:15:33.320 no tarp or whatever and just being like, I'll just 2:15:33.360 --> 2:15:36.640 fucking deal whether it's not raining that hard, you know, like. 2:15:36.720 --> 2:15:39.680 Yeah, yeah, totally, Like I have fucked some really expensive 2:15:39.760 --> 2:15:42.720 down sleeping bags, even the oil on your skin, and 2:15:42.760 --> 2:15:46.400 will actually eventually closet that down to Yeah, like that 2:15:46.600 --> 2:15:49.880 you really have to baby some ultra light down stuff, 2:15:49.880 --> 2:15:50.520 which is fine. 2:15:50.600 --> 2:15:51.680 Like if I'm mountaineering. 2:15:51.720 --> 2:15:53.960 If I'm not that I will baby my bag because 2:15:54.000 --> 2:15:55.200 I don't want to carry extra shit. 2:15:55.680 --> 2:15:58.920 But this is not that exactly, Like if you are 2:15:59.040 --> 2:16:00.960 trying to do a through hike, you might look at 2:16:00.960 --> 2:16:03.360 this very differently. And there's a version of the world 2:16:03.400 --> 2:16:06.200 where your crisis might involve moving over the mountains in 2:16:06.280 --> 2:16:09.720 winter to get out of a country that has just 2:16:09.800 --> 2:16:12.400 elected a fascist who says that he wants to kill 2:16:12.440 --> 2:16:16.880 all the communists or whatever. Yeah, I've spoken to those people. Yeah. Yeah, 2:16:17.160 --> 2:16:21.240 and so like in that situation, get the mountaineer and shit, 2:16:21.520 --> 2:16:24.200 you know. Yeah yeah, okay, other stuff to have in 2:16:24.320 --> 2:16:27.760 this bag a heavy duty trash bag. You can put 2:16:27.800 --> 2:16:30.040 all your stuff in it to keep it dry. Yeah. Yeah, 2:16:30.280 --> 2:16:32.360 there's like all these like arguments about how to keep 2:16:32.360 --> 2:16:34.360 your bag dry and overall. And I'm curious if this 2:16:34.440 --> 2:16:38.160 has been your experience. People have been moving away from 2:16:38.240 --> 2:16:41.000 like pack covers where you cover the pack and instead 2:16:41.080 --> 2:16:43.800 just put everything inside the pack into something that's waterproof. 2:16:44.440 --> 2:16:46.640 Yeah, that's what I've done for a very long time. 2:16:47.200 --> 2:16:48.879 You can spend a lot of money on stuff sacks 2:16:49.840 --> 2:16:52.080 like the event ones that see. To some it make 2:16:52.120 --> 2:16:54.360 it cool because they have a one way breathable fabric, 2:16:54.480 --> 2:16:56.760 so you squeeze them and the egg goes rules, it 2:16:57.000 --> 2:16:57.680 doesn't go back in. 2:16:57.800 --> 2:16:58.400 It's pretty cool. 2:16:58.640 --> 2:17:00.800 Yeah, But then you end up with these really hard 2:17:00.959 --> 2:17:04.000 bricks of clothing or whatever that like you can't kind 2:17:04.040 --> 2:17:05.760 of make them fill the space, right, They just end 2:17:05.840 --> 2:17:07.800 up being like solid, so sometimes they don't pack as well. 2:17:08.040 --> 2:17:08.240 Yeah. 2:17:08.320 --> 2:17:13.039 I have used three milimeter contract great bin bags for years. 2:17:13.840 --> 2:17:16.600 The amountain into the deserts. You can sleep in them, 2:17:16.640 --> 2:17:18.720 you can make them into a poncho. You can fill 2:17:18.800 --> 2:17:20.760 them with brush and make them into a sleeping pad. 2:17:22.240 --> 2:17:22.440 Yeah. 2:17:22.640 --> 2:17:25.480 Great items, And it's sketchy, but a lot of people 2:17:26.440 --> 2:17:29.760 who are stuck living outside in very cold environments will 2:17:29.760 --> 2:17:32.440 wear them close to their skin for like a really 2:17:32.560 --> 2:17:36.720 intensely heating insulating layer. But it's sketchy because then you 2:17:36.800 --> 2:17:38.280 sweat like hell, and you can freeze to death if 2:17:38.280 --> 2:17:42.920 you really careful. Yeah, that's some like that's some life 2:17:42.959 --> 2:17:46.440 or death shit. Yeah exactly. I'm not telling you how 2:17:46.520 --> 2:17:49.720 to do that on air here, you know, yeah. 2:17:49.600 --> 2:17:51.360 Google, But yeah, they have a lot of usage. You 2:17:51.360 --> 2:17:53.600 get them to gather water too, I've done that before. 2:17:53.840 --> 2:17:57.400 Oh that makes sense. Cash. Cash is really useful. The 2:17:57.480 --> 2:17:59.320 amount of cash you want to carry has to do 2:17:59.400 --> 2:18:01.080 with the amount of actually you're willing to put into 2:18:01.120 --> 2:18:03.720 a bag that just sits there if it does nothing. Yeah, 2:18:04.520 --> 2:18:09.960 gold of course, Yeah, totally have so many thoughts about 2:18:10.680 --> 2:18:14.920 Golden air. Yeah yeah, yeah. Anyway, that's beside the point. 2:18:14.920 --> 2:18:17.640 That's where home prepping. Okay, you want to spare USB 2:18:17.760 --> 2:18:22.000 battery and charging cables. I would advocate an octopus cable 2:18:22.080 --> 2:18:24.560 that has like mini USBC and lightning charger all on 2:18:24.640 --> 2:18:26.160 one cable so you don't have to keep track of 2:18:26.240 --> 2:18:27.840 multiple cables for multiple devices. 2:18:28.080 --> 2:18:32.040 Yeah, right right here, I'm trying to look what the 2:18:32.080 --> 2:18:35.760 brand is of mine, because I got one recently. When 2:18:35.800 --> 2:18:39.280 I'm working in places that are conflict zones, especially places 2:18:39.280 --> 2:18:40.879 where I think I might have to go like peace 2:18:40.920 --> 2:18:43.560 out to a bomb shelter for a few hours, days whatever, 2:18:44.920 --> 2:18:47.360 I like to have a little pouch with all my 2:18:47.480 --> 2:18:49.720 charging and medical and essential stuff. 2:18:50.080 --> 2:18:50.280 Yeah. 2:18:50.520 --> 2:18:52.520 This is called a leave a cable and I found 2:18:52.520 --> 2:18:55.080 it to be very handy because it's like stiff and 2:18:55.200 --> 2:18:59.360 it doesn't cables get twisted and frayed a lot. Okay, 2:18:59.480 --> 2:19:02.560 doesn't do that. Yeah, Yeah, a little buzz marketing for 2:19:02.680 --> 2:19:02.920 you there. 2:19:03.040 --> 2:19:05.920 Yeah. Now, I'm gonna look into those later because I 2:19:06.480 --> 2:19:08.080 as much as I'm like, oh fuck all the gadgets, 2:19:08.120 --> 2:19:09.400 know what I'm trying to say, You don't need all 2:19:09.440 --> 2:19:11.880 the gadgets, but they're kind of cool and like and 2:19:11.959 --> 2:19:14.240 the size of extra battery you have is depending on 2:19:14.320 --> 2:19:17.800 what you're doing. You know, like, if you're reasonably sure 2:19:17.840 --> 2:19:19.720 you're gonna be around power, just have a little one 2:19:19.840 --> 2:19:21.680 and because like you know what, you're gonna be the 2:19:21.720 --> 2:19:24.520 one who saves the night. When everyone's drunk at the 2:19:24.600 --> 2:19:27.440 bar and someone's phone is dead and they're the only 2:19:27.520 --> 2:19:31.520 person who has uber set up right, and you know, yeah, 2:19:32.160 --> 2:19:34.520 Like I've been trying to advocate that per snacks are 2:19:34.520 --> 2:19:36.480 the best example of prepping and that everything that like 2:19:36.640 --> 2:19:38.960 men are trying to do is like catching up with 2:19:39.120 --> 2:19:42.640 the fact that like women are actually culturally in our 2:19:42.720 --> 2:19:47.920 society like better at prepping. Yeah, but okay, uh, I 2:19:48.000 --> 2:19:50.880 put a milar emergency blanket in. These are these like 2:19:51.879 --> 2:19:55.280 you know, they seem almost gimmicky. They're these incredibly light 2:19:55.840 --> 2:19:57.520 little plastic tarps. 2:19:57.600 --> 2:19:57.720 Right. 2:19:58.160 --> 2:20:01.600 Uh. One probably my life when I was thirty, like 2:20:01.760 --> 2:20:03.800 on my like twelfth or thirteenth birthday, when I like 2:20:03.879 --> 2:20:07.600 woke up getting hypothermia five miles from the road in 2:20:07.720 --> 2:20:10.640 a wet tent. So I'm just like, yeah, no, eyes 2:20:10.640 --> 2:20:12.600 are great, Like, yeah, they're great. 2:20:12.920 --> 2:20:15.640 They that you can do a hypothermia wrap with them, 2:20:16.360 --> 2:20:18.160 use them for signing if you're in a different kind 2:20:18.200 --> 2:20:22.440 of situation. We can't use them in the refuge count 2:20:22.600 --> 2:20:24.760 and working because one of them floated into a transformer 2:20:25.560 --> 2:20:28.240 and that oh wow that yeah, so yeah, that's your 2:20:28.480 --> 2:20:31.240 that's your caveat there doing get some around high voltage power. 2:20:31.320 --> 2:20:33.400 But yeah, there's things you're not going to get anything 2:20:33.440 --> 2:20:35.360 warmer for that size. It's the size of a couple 2:20:35.360 --> 2:20:36.840 of credit cards stacked on top of each other. 2:20:37.080 --> 2:20:39.920 Yeah, totally, And like in mind I have like a 2:20:40.040 --> 2:20:42.440 slightly nicer one because I don't have a sleeping bag. 2:20:42.480 --> 2:20:45.080 In mind, I have like an emergency bag. Sleeping bag. 2:20:45.120 --> 2:20:46.720 I've never used it, I don't. 2:20:46.920 --> 2:20:50.320 Oh yeah, the there's a company called Survive Outdoors. Fuck, 2:20:50.320 --> 2:20:52.200 I'm saying a little companies today by autu you have 2:20:52.240 --> 2:20:54.320 a shit you want, don't care. There's company go Survive 2:20:54.360 --> 2:20:56.600 Outdoors Longer that makes one that's like about the size 2:20:56.640 --> 2:20:57.800 of a beer can. 2:20:58.200 --> 2:21:01.480 Yeah that's that's yeah, I think, Yeah those are great. Yeah, 2:21:01.560 --> 2:21:02.360 I've sucked up. 2:21:02.400 --> 2:21:04.520 It's at night one of those when I was doing 2:21:04.680 --> 2:21:07.280 like the like look how ultra light I could be stuff. 2:21:07.440 --> 2:21:11.240 It's not great, but like but here you are recording here. 2:21:11.280 --> 2:21:13.920 I am not defintely with my full set of digits, 2:21:14.040 --> 2:21:16.760 so like I got really complain, you know, yeah exactly. 2:21:17.520 --> 2:21:19.640 And those things won't float off into a power transform. 2:21:19.680 --> 2:21:20.400 They're a bit heavier. 2:21:20.879 --> 2:21:23.960 Yeah yeah, yeah, no, that would be yeah, it would 2:21:23.959 --> 2:21:27.240 be an advantage of it. Uh yeah, and the other side. 2:21:27.240 --> 2:21:30.279 So again people will see you, right, which a contrary 2:21:30.360 --> 2:21:33.000 to what you might have seen on YouTube. You want 2:21:33.080 --> 2:21:35.600 people to see you most of the time. Most crises 2:21:35.600 --> 2:21:37.400 you're going to encounter, you're not going to be hiding. 2:21:37.760 --> 2:21:40.360 Right. Sometimes when you're like hitchhiking and shit, you do 2:21:40.480 --> 2:21:41.760 have to not be seen. And then I get really 2:21:41.879 --> 2:21:43.560 nice houp, right, all the tents are and so I 2:21:43.680 --> 2:21:46.600 kind of want one of the like new bullshit Camo 2:21:46.920 --> 2:21:51.080 ultra light tents. But yeah, that's I don't hitchhike. I 2:21:51.120 --> 2:21:54.840 have a fucking truck. It's bullshit. I'm fine. A full 2:21:54.920 --> 2:21:57.160 water bottle. I think it's always worth having a full 2:21:57.200 --> 2:21:59.360 water bottle in your in your bag. This is the 2:21:59.440 --> 2:22:04.160 heaviest thing in your bag. Water is just fucking wonderful 2:22:04.320 --> 2:22:06.119 and you need way more of it than you think 2:22:06.200 --> 2:22:10.320 you do when you're exerting yourself. I have been historically 2:22:10.400 --> 2:22:13.120 advocating a single wall steel canteen so that the water 2:22:13.200 --> 2:22:16.760 can be boiled in an emergency directly in it. But 2:22:16.920 --> 2:22:18.800 a lot of people have a preference for lighter weight 2:22:18.840 --> 2:22:20.360 and that makes a lot of sense, and also even 2:22:20.400 --> 2:22:22.600 having something that just looks a little bit more civilian 2:22:23.200 --> 2:22:25.200 also makes a lot of sense. The ultra light. I 2:22:25.320 --> 2:22:27.440 actually think the ultra Lighters might be right on this one. 2:22:27.480 --> 2:22:29.600 And they use the to use a brand name. They 2:22:29.640 --> 2:22:31.880 all get those smart waters, but then they don't keep 2:22:32.120 --> 2:22:35.400 drinking smart water. They drink one and then they clean 2:22:35.480 --> 2:22:38.320 it and refill the bottle of tap water. Yeah, or 2:22:38.400 --> 2:22:40.400 with the soil of filter fits on top of it, 2:22:40.560 --> 2:22:42.520 which is very handy. Right. Yeah. 2:22:42.640 --> 2:22:44.760 The thing I do like about a single waves change 2:22:44.920 --> 2:22:48.120 bottle a the smart water bottles. You fill them up 2:22:48.120 --> 2:22:51.200 and then they freeze. They can break right and b 2:22:51.840 --> 2:22:53.960 I like to do like the analogeen baby, you know 2:22:54.040 --> 2:22:56.800 where you boil some water, put it in that thing 2:22:57.280 --> 2:23:00.360 and then you are cold. That comes into bed with you. Yeah, 2:23:00.600 --> 2:23:02.240 it's very pleasant experience. 2:23:02.600 --> 2:23:04.400 Yeah, no, that that makes sense to me. 2:23:06.560 --> 2:23:09.000 I don't know what happened to full water full full 2:23:09.040 --> 2:23:12.680 steel water ball, that's true. Someone on the head with it. Yeah, 2:23:12.879 --> 2:23:14.840 they're coming back from that. Even the guy with the 2:23:14.879 --> 2:23:16.640 folding ar, he's not getting up. You give him a 2:23:16.640 --> 2:23:17.800 couple with the well. 2:23:17.800 --> 2:23:19.960 And if we're going for cross punk, I also recommend 2:23:20.000 --> 2:23:24.720 a lock attached to a chain. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, 2:23:25.440 --> 2:23:29.760 if you have a bicycle. True, that's true. Yeah, yeah, 2:23:29.800 --> 2:23:33.880 areas of our interest. Yeah, okay, a buttane lighter, a 2:23:33.959 --> 2:23:37.240 bit lighter, an emergency whistle. This is the most. Like 2:23:37.840 --> 2:23:39.760 I was at a firearms training and we were talking 2:23:39.760 --> 2:23:41.520 about a bunch of stuff and people were like, all right, 2:23:41.520 --> 2:23:43.720 and this is how you like signal the following, you know, 2:23:43.879 --> 2:23:45.879 like like range clear kind of stuff, like use a whistle, 2:23:45.879 --> 2:23:48.920 bah blah blah blah. And everyone's like, I didn't bring 2:23:49.000 --> 2:23:51.879 a whistle. I'm like I got three in my bag, 2:23:52.040 --> 2:23:53.000 Like what are you doing? 2:23:53.640 --> 2:23:57.680 Yeah, amateurs, Yeah, if they're light and cheap and useful, 2:23:57.920 --> 2:24:00.280 like the number of people who wouldn't have done in 2:24:00.320 --> 2:24:03.680 the woods because if they had a whistle, like more 2:24:03.720 --> 2:24:04.480 than anything else. 2:24:04.680 --> 2:24:08.240 Because people think that the solution to our problems is 2:24:08.360 --> 2:24:11.680 fix it yourself. Usually the solution to problems is get help. 2:24:12.600 --> 2:24:14.800 Yes, yeah, yeah, And that's a great like you're going 2:24:14.879 --> 2:24:16.840 to use a lot less energy whistlingly shouting. 2:24:17.200 --> 2:24:21.120 Yeah. Most if hiking backpacks. 2:24:20.959 --> 2:24:23.920 Will have a chest buckle that is also a whistle, 2:24:24.000 --> 2:24:25.520 and if they don't, you can probably change it. 2:24:25.800 --> 2:24:27.760 Yeah, and that rules. That's the kind of shit I 2:24:27.920 --> 2:24:30.760 like to see. Yeah, it's well thought out. It's cover. Yeah, 2:24:30.800 --> 2:24:32.560 we love it. And when I when I lived on 2:24:32.600 --> 2:24:34.840 a lab project, I made everyone put the hurricane whistles 2:24:34.879 --> 2:24:37.320 by their door so that like we didn't always have 2:24:37.520 --> 2:24:40.000 a good cell reception or whatever, and so that there's 2:24:40.000 --> 2:24:42.640 an emergency, we can everyone has a whistle loud enough 2:24:42.680 --> 2:24:45.320 to be heard by everyone else on the large products. 2:24:45.320 --> 2:24:47.800 Oh yeah, you know spot. Yeah, it's a lot less 2:24:47.840 --> 2:24:50.039 money than a ham radio, which is something I've been. 2:24:50.320 --> 2:24:52.360 Right and like I'm not anti having like you know, 2:24:52.680 --> 2:24:55.880 Miwaukie talkies and stuff, but yeah, yeah, sometimes you're just like, no, 2:24:56.000 --> 2:24:57.640 I have a hurricane whistle, or even I just have 2:24:57.680 --> 2:25:01.480 a regular whistle. Okay, a folding knife to print them? 2:25:01.640 --> 2:25:01.880 What's that? 2:25:02.440 --> 2:25:04.320 You could three D print them pretty good ones. Oh 2:25:04.360 --> 2:25:06.560 that's cool, like three to printing me give them out, now, 2:25:06.800 --> 2:25:07.240 that's cool. 2:25:07.720 --> 2:25:12.560 That's awesome. I keep a folding knife in these bags. 2:25:12.600 --> 2:25:14.440 I also usually just have one on me. But and 2:25:15.480 --> 2:25:18.480 you know, the least weapon looking knife you can get 2:25:19.160 --> 2:25:20.360 is going to be a bang for your buck in 2:25:20.440 --> 2:25:22.680 terms of like being able to go with you lots 2:25:22.720 --> 2:25:26.960 of places. Obviously, this isn't going to your carry on luggage. Yeah, 2:25:27.240 --> 2:25:31.520 A rechargeable headlamp or flashlight, and then a basic first 2:25:31.560 --> 2:25:35.560 aid kit. That's my you know, there's there's all kinds 2:25:35.600 --> 2:25:40.160 of other stuff. If you're going to be hiking, if 2:25:40.200 --> 2:25:41.960 you're and if I know I'm going to be like 2:25:42.120 --> 2:25:44.320 in a lot of situations, one of the first things 2:25:44.360 --> 2:25:46.000 I would add as a tarp and a sleeping bag. 2:25:46.200 --> 2:25:48.440 That would be like, yeah, the next things to go 2:25:48.600 --> 2:25:50.200 in sleeping bags are pretty big. 2:25:51.680 --> 2:25:56.720 Yeah, I definitely have that stuff in a general sense, 2:25:56.760 --> 2:26:00.120 both for doing this and for Germany enjoying out all 2:26:00.120 --> 2:26:02.440 this stuff. It really helps if you can have your 2:26:02.480 --> 2:26:06.280 shit organized in stuff sacks and labeled so that you 2:26:06.360 --> 2:26:08.320 know if if you should you need to leave your 2:26:08.360 --> 2:26:10.359 house in an emergency, right, it's going to be more comfortable. 2:26:10.360 --> 2:26:12.440 If you have a sleeping bag and inflightable pillow and 2:26:12.560 --> 2:26:15.080 a top, you can grab them in ten seconds if 2:26:15.120 --> 2:26:18.560 you've got them labeled right, and it's this will also 2:26:18.640 --> 2:26:20.920 help you. Like I like to camp, the worst part 2:26:20.920 --> 2:26:24.200 about camping is packing. So if I have all my stuff, 2:26:24.200 --> 2:26:25.920 I can just be like, Okay, I've got a sleep system, 2:26:25.959 --> 2:26:29.000 I got to cooking system. Yeah, twenty four hours of food, 2:26:29.040 --> 2:26:29.920 I'm ready to rumble. 2:26:30.160 --> 2:26:30.360 Yeah. 2:26:31.240 --> 2:26:33.320 No, it makes sense. But you know what, who else 2:26:33.440 --> 2:26:40.199 is ready to rumble? Oh yeah, yeah, Reagan, they're ready 2:26:40.240 --> 2:26:45.280 to fight at all times. Yep, here's an ad for fighting. 2:26:46.480 --> 2:26:49.800 We're back and we've now learned to fight thanks to 2:26:50.240 --> 2:26:50.800 the adverts. 2:26:50.959 --> 2:26:56.920 Yeah yeah, so moy tyejj. Actually that's what's fun. Yeah yeah, 2:26:56.959 --> 2:27:01.920 that's it's cool. Kraft Magar Yeah yeah, yeah, the the 2:27:02.040 --> 2:27:06.760 Rag and Gold of martial arts. Yeah, okay, so what 2:27:06.879 --> 2:27:08.920 do you Okay, so I have other stuff that I 2:27:09.040 --> 2:27:11.560 keep in my ad my bag that is like more 2:27:11.640 --> 2:27:14.480 fun or I think incredibly useful, but not in the 2:27:14.600 --> 2:27:18.280 like dead basics that I keep. But what else do 2:27:18.360 --> 2:27:20.160 you keep? Do you have any like fun stuff or 2:27:20.360 --> 2:27:23.320 other stuff that I didn't mention? Yeah, a couple of 2:27:23.320 --> 2:27:24.039 other things. I think. 2:27:25.480 --> 2:27:27.240 One of the things I use the most this is 2:27:27.280 --> 2:27:29.080 my little bag that I have that if I have 2:27:29.200 --> 2:27:31.080 to go to area, shelter or certain thing. It's very 2:27:31.200 --> 2:27:35.040 very small. It's like, I don't know, it's the size 2:27:35.040 --> 2:27:37.360 of a small paper book is would go into a 2:27:37.400 --> 2:27:39.560 bigger bag. But one of the things that I use 2:27:39.760 --> 2:27:41.720 I take on trips with me and I use everywhere 2:27:41.760 --> 2:27:44.119 I go. This is like a quarter inch bit driver. 2:27:45.000 --> 2:27:48.200 Oh nice, Yeah, and it spins, It spins, and it's 2:27:48.480 --> 2:27:50.440 just a tiny screw driver with where you can change 2:27:50.480 --> 2:27:50.840 the bits. 2:27:51.280 --> 2:27:53.320 Yeah, and then I have a set of bits. Yeah. 2:27:54.280 --> 2:27:57.560 So like I use this bad boy all the time, right, 2:27:57.680 --> 2:27:59.959 I use it when I get water in my podcast equipment, 2:28:00.000 --> 2:28:01.640 which is a thing that I am wont to do. 2:28:02.400 --> 2:28:05.160 Uh, you have to. 2:28:05.840 --> 2:28:08.880 This is my this is my this is my laddism. Right, 2:28:10.280 --> 2:28:11.960 I'm breaking the frame of big podcast. 2:28:12.840 --> 2:28:17.640 Keep a sledgehammer specifically for breaking frames. Yeah, machine frames 2:28:17.680 --> 2:28:21.000 if you run out. Yes, yeah, there's one thing I 2:28:21.080 --> 2:28:24.160 fucking hate. It's a weaving machine. And I take them 2:28:24.160 --> 2:28:24.880 down whenever I can. 2:28:25.360 --> 2:28:27.560 But this this guy is really useful, right, Like you know, 2:28:27.640 --> 2:28:30.120 you could be staying with you could be There are 2:28:30.120 --> 2:28:32.880 a million things right there. Your bed in your hotel 2:28:33.040 --> 2:28:34.840 is loose and you need to tighten it. You need 2:28:34.920 --> 2:28:37.840 to take a part of your podcasting machine. There is 2:28:38.400 --> 2:28:40.360 you know that there's something wrong with your phone. 2:28:40.400 --> 2:28:40.879 Whatever. 2:28:40.879 --> 2:28:43.000 It is like a screwdriver and a few little bits, 2:28:43.640 --> 2:28:46.200 super handy. You want to help your friend put together 2:28:46.280 --> 2:28:50.120 to my kea furniture not a problem. So it's very 2:28:50.200 --> 2:28:52.880 very small. It's you know the size of pretty the 2:28:52.959 --> 2:28:54.640 size of a cigarette and then the sort of bits 2:28:54.720 --> 2:28:58.480 and the size of another cigarette. Very easy to carry 2:28:58.480 --> 2:29:02.279 around with you everywhere. I am an appreciator of sporks. 2:29:02.720 --> 2:29:04.480 Oh that's on my that was on my follow up 2:29:04.520 --> 2:29:06.280 list too. Oh excellent. Good. 2:29:06.440 --> 2:29:08.120 Yeah, I'm a person who thinks about sporks a lot. 2:29:08.400 --> 2:29:11.040 You guys can read my sport reviews at backpacking dot 2:29:11.120 --> 2:29:15.320 com if you want to. Yeah, that's that's not a joke. 2:29:16.080 --> 2:29:18.240 It's just a reflection on the sad person I am 2:29:19.480 --> 2:29:21.000 so yeah a Okay, are. 2:29:20.920 --> 2:29:24.039 You a long handled spork or regular spork? See? 2:29:24.120 --> 2:29:26.520 The long handled spook is nice for when you're going 2:29:26.560 --> 2:29:29.119 into an MRI type meal. How often you're going into 2:29:29.120 --> 2:29:32.480 an MRI type meal compared to like the pocketability. 2:29:31.959 --> 2:29:32.879 Of a normal spork. 2:29:33.120 --> 2:29:36.280 Right now, that makes sense to me. Yeah, the mr 2:29:36.440 --> 2:29:40.320 spoon is the best bargain eating device. It weighs six grams, 2:29:40.360 --> 2:29:42.959 which is less than a titanium spork. You can dip 2:29:43.040 --> 2:29:45.680 into hot water. It doesn't melt, it doesn't break like 2:29:45.760 --> 2:29:48.040 a like a traditional plastic like. It's not like a 2:29:48.080 --> 2:29:51.280 fast food plastic spoon. It's its best bang feed back 2:29:51.320 --> 2:29:54.440 when it comes to spoons. Okay, when I a shape, 2:29:55.120 --> 2:29:57.280 when I was when I was more of a crosspunk. 2:29:58.120 --> 2:30:02.840 Yeah. Always on my waist belt was a titanium spork 2:30:03.000 --> 2:30:06.119 with a P thirty eight can opener keychain to it. Yes, 2:30:06.560 --> 2:30:08.920 because no matter what, I could get into a can 2:30:09.080 --> 2:30:10.000 of Amy's chili. 2:30:13.200 --> 2:30:16.360 The amount of people I've seen I took camping lots. 2:30:16.360 --> 2:30:18.240 Sometimes I'll go with my trucks. Sometimes I go by 2:30:18.280 --> 2:30:21.480 myself on my feet. The amount of humans I've seen 2:30:21.600 --> 2:30:25.080 with very expensive overlanding setups trying to open a can 2:30:25.160 --> 2:30:29.320 of food on a rock. It's a lot of humans. Like, Yeah, 2:30:29.480 --> 2:30:31.160 a can opener is a very handy thing. 2:30:31.280 --> 2:30:31.320 No. 2:30:31.440 --> 2:30:33.880 And the P thirty eight or P fifty ones, these 2:30:33.879 --> 2:30:37.120 are the tiny military ones. They weigh nothing. They're like 2:30:38.400 --> 2:30:40.800 ten of them would fit on a credit card, you know. 2:30:41.120 --> 2:30:43.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have pretty six my truck. But yeah, 2:30:44.840 --> 2:30:49.120 they're very small. In terms of other things I do, 2:30:49.280 --> 2:30:52.160 like zip ties, zip tize, very small, very handy. Yeah, 2:30:52.360 --> 2:30:54.760 you know, always fix it with zip ties. I'm just 2:30:55.120 --> 2:30:56.640 looking at this bag in front of me and thinking 2:30:56.680 --> 2:30:57.240 what else I have. 2:30:57.400 --> 2:31:01.280 That's remarkable. I save the day with zyptized when when 2:31:01.320 --> 2:31:03.800 I was driving in the woods with my friend when 2:31:05.200 --> 2:31:07.280 some part of her exhaust system fell off of her 2:31:07.360 --> 2:31:09.760 van and oh yeah, and I was like dragging on 2:31:09.840 --> 2:31:12.200 the ground. And I didn't normally carry ziptize, but my 2:31:12.360 --> 2:31:14.880 dad had always been like, ziptize they're amazing, and I 2:31:14.959 --> 2:31:17.400 was like, sure, dad, whatever, So like I had some 2:31:17.560 --> 2:31:18.039 in my truck. 2:31:19.560 --> 2:31:22.199 Yeah, very hand Gyptized and duct tape certainly in your vehicle. 2:31:22.360 --> 2:31:26.879 You can fix most stuff that wants fixing with ziptized 2:31:26.920 --> 2:31:29.200 and duct tape. I just like to wrap the handles 2:31:29.240 --> 2:31:31.119 of my stuff, Like I have a little bit lighter here, 2:31:32.120 --> 2:31:33.720 and I just wrap that induct tape and then I 2:31:33.760 --> 2:31:34.480 have the duct tape. 2:31:34.560 --> 2:31:36.280 Yeah, and I have the big lighter. 2:31:36.480 --> 2:31:38.560 Duct tape also is great tinder. You can start fire 2:31:38.640 --> 2:31:43.080 with it, so okay, really has many many uses. 2:31:43.280 --> 2:31:45.080 You can use one lighter to light the other lighter 2:31:45.160 --> 2:31:47.959 on fire. Yeah. Yeah. You could also take the tape 2:31:47.959 --> 2:31:50.400 off your lighter if you wanted to avoid lighting your lighter. 2:31:50.480 --> 2:31:50.760 All right. 2:31:50.800 --> 2:31:52.280 If you did light your lighter, you'll get a moment 2:31:52.320 --> 2:31:55.560 of excitement when it goes poof, yeah, unless you're holding it, 2:31:55.600 --> 2:31:57.240 which case you'll get a moment of pain. 2:31:58.800 --> 2:31:59.720 Which could be exciting. 2:32:00.360 --> 2:32:03.320 Yeah, it could be exciting. Hopefully you're close to a hospital. Yeah, 2:32:04.000 --> 2:32:06.000 and yeah, I like to carry it like a little 2:32:06.000 --> 2:32:07.840 pre made there's a I like to. 2:32:08.320 --> 2:32:08.440 I do. 2:32:08.680 --> 2:32:11.320 Like to vacuum seal stuff. It's the thing that I enjoy. 2:32:11.959 --> 2:32:14.240 I recently got a vacuum sealer, been getting really into it, 2:32:15.120 --> 2:32:17.600 so like I'll vacuum see your little packets of pills, 2:32:17.720 --> 2:32:23.000 little little plasters, band aids for American listeners, yeah, inter 2:32:23.080 --> 2:32:25.400 little packs and give them to people or keep them places. 2:32:25.520 --> 2:32:28.080 It maybe helps them with aging a little bit. But 2:32:28.520 --> 2:32:30.440 having a having a bag at that you could just 2:32:30.520 --> 2:32:35.160 open in an emergency. It's super handy. The other thing 2:32:35.280 --> 2:32:39.240 that I like, and largely this is just because I 2:32:39.400 --> 2:32:42.480 go to places and I have these tiny little fishing 2:32:42.600 --> 2:32:46.840 chem lights, like they're designed for certain fishing floats. They're 2:32:46.879 --> 2:32:48.920 very good if you need to like see something and 2:32:49.000 --> 2:32:53.400 so that's closed sticks for for the non tactical crowd yeah, yeah, yeah, 2:32:53.560 --> 2:32:56.199 or silooms for the British tactical crowd. 2:32:57.360 --> 2:32:58.000 They're very handy. 2:32:58.040 --> 2:33:01.000 You need to mark something at night, right, They're not 2:33:01.120 --> 2:33:03.200 going to be great for like I have flares in 2:33:03.280 --> 2:33:05.160 my car. My car breaks down in the dark grown 2:33:05.160 --> 2:33:06.560 and I don't want people to pile into the back 2:33:06.560 --> 2:33:08.800 of it. But for smaller things. You're going around a 2:33:08.840 --> 2:33:11.320 campsite and you want to be like, oh, like, you know, 2:33:11.400 --> 2:33:16.480 there's a a piece of rebar sticking out the ground here, right, 2:33:16.520 --> 2:33:18.840 you can crack one of those bad boys and light 2:33:18.959 --> 2:33:19.200 it up. 2:33:19.560 --> 2:33:22.320 No, that makes sense. They're also just a way to 2:33:22.440 --> 2:33:23.840 bamboozle young children. 2:33:24.680 --> 2:33:26.680 If you are around kids at night and you can 2:33:27.040 --> 2:33:29.960 suddenly make light appear, just make sure they don't eat them. 2:33:30.080 --> 2:33:31.680 Okay, But see, this actually gets to something that you 2:33:31.800 --> 2:33:37.040 brought up earlier. A lot of crisy situations, an awful 2:33:37.120 --> 2:33:39.800 lot of them you're not alone, and then an awful 2:33:39.840 --> 2:33:44.320 lot of them. Things like being able to entertain kids 2:33:44.520 --> 2:33:48.119 and things like that is like, yeah, a genuine need, 2:33:48.520 --> 2:33:51.800 like a very useful thing. And so like I know 2:33:51.920 --> 2:33:54.160 people who keep you know, like I mean usually people 2:33:54.160 --> 2:33:56.040 who have kids, but they keep a stuffed animal or 2:33:56.080 --> 2:33:57.200 something like that in their bag. 2:33:58.520 --> 2:34:00.920 Yeah, Like I was, so there are a load of 2:34:00.959 --> 2:34:02.800 children in these camps down the border, and that's very 2:34:02.840 --> 2:34:05.760 fucked up. But like I realized didn't have any toys, 2:34:05.800 --> 2:34:08.199 so I got loads of these tiny little stuffed animals 2:34:08.240 --> 2:34:10.640 that someone had donated. Like they're about the size of 2:34:10.680 --> 2:34:13.560 a golf ball. And it gave each child an animal right, 2:34:13.640 --> 2:34:15.800 so they could play with the little animals, and animals 2:34:15.879 --> 2:34:17.160 could be in community with each other. 2:34:17.560 --> 2:34:18.480 That's amazing. Yeah. 2:34:18.879 --> 2:34:21.080 Yeah, they were so pumped. And it wasn't just that 2:34:21.120 --> 2:34:22.360 the kids were like, yeah, I got a toy. The 2:34:22.480 --> 2:34:26.920 parents were like thank fuck, like they are so bored, right, 2:34:27.040 --> 2:34:28.720 or like I have a small finger puppet that I 2:34:28.760 --> 2:34:31.400 was using the other day to entertain them. I didn't 2:34:31.400 --> 2:34:32.560 where I found it. I found it in one of 2:34:32.600 --> 2:34:34.600 the vans we were using. Yeah, it's like a seal 2:34:35.320 --> 2:34:38.520 and something like that makes all the difference when you 2:34:38.600 --> 2:34:41.720 have nothing to do with your kids. And I guess, 2:34:41.840 --> 2:34:44.400 like along those lines, when I am bored, I have 2:34:44.520 --> 2:34:46.280 a kind lap on my phone. I think it works 2:34:46.320 --> 2:34:49.080 with all the phones obviously. Jeff Bezos is a bell end. 2:34:49.200 --> 2:34:51.640 But like that's age. 2:34:51.959 --> 2:34:54.320 It's a British word. Yeah, yes, it's a British word. 2:34:54.440 --> 2:34:56.840 We don't like beis. Yeah. It was the end of 2:34:56.879 --> 2:34:58.080 a dick the Tumescent Park. 2:34:58.200 --> 2:35:02.320 Yeah yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, for those who weren't clear 2:35:02.400 --> 2:35:05.640 in the audience, but yeah, Jeff bases a dick. But 2:35:05.800 --> 2:35:08.680 the kindlap is nice. You can also have PDFs of 2:35:08.720 --> 2:35:13.280 books on your phone. But it's again like I'm telling 2:35:13.320 --> 2:35:15.720 you from personal experience, when you're sitting in a giant 2:35:15.800 --> 2:35:18.560 warehouse with nothing to do for a few days. Somewhere, 2:35:18.600 --> 2:35:20.400 I have a picture of building a fort with this 2:35:20.560 --> 2:35:23.520 little you know, she's like three or four, you know, 2:35:23.600 --> 2:35:26.240 and have folks who had come, folks were refugees and 2:35:26.280 --> 2:35:28.280 we were just bored. We built a four out of 2:35:28.360 --> 2:35:33.440 miler blankets. But someone had an inflatable ball which we 2:35:33.600 --> 2:35:36.199 just played with for hours because you're so bored. 2:35:36.360 --> 2:35:36.560 Yeah. 2:35:36.840 --> 2:35:38.800 So yeah, just having like. 2:35:39.200 --> 2:35:41.160 An app on your phone where you can read books, 2:35:41.520 --> 2:35:43.880 it's probably going to be more useful to you than 2:35:44.040 --> 2:35:45.879 that shore barrowed rifle that you had to pay two 2:35:45.920 --> 2:35:47.760 hundred dollars tax stamp and that effects come into your 2:35:47.800 --> 2:35:48.160 house for. 2:35:48.400 --> 2:35:52.000 Yeah, every every crosspunk, I know, you always carry what 2:35:52.160 --> 2:35:54.879 you need, and then you carry something and you almost 2:35:54.959 --> 2:35:58.040 like set your personality around this. Like like I knew 2:35:58.040 --> 2:36:00.040 a guy who was not an ultra lighter and his 2:36:00.160 --> 2:36:05.480 name was Pogo Dave and a fucking stick, Yeah, an 2:36:05.600 --> 2:36:10.760 old metal like rusted pogo stick and I almost broke 2:36:10.840 --> 2:36:13.840 my knee with that thing. Oh yeah, in the middle 2:36:13.840 --> 2:36:14.320 of nowhere. 2:36:15.000 --> 2:36:17.360 Yeah, I don't know if younger listeners will be familiar 2:36:17.400 --> 2:36:20.240 with the pogos. I think that's like, do you think 2:36:20.280 --> 2:36:21.320 the zoom is in the audio? 2:36:21.400 --> 2:36:25.200 I have no idea there. They're probably looking up yeah 2:36:25.720 --> 2:36:28.640 and yeah and so having something. And it's funny too, 2:36:28.640 --> 2:36:30.800 because every like prepper manuals, like and a deck of 2:36:30.959 --> 2:36:34.000 cards and this is like technically true, but I'll tell 2:36:34.000 --> 2:36:36.640 you what. People actually plays hot dice, having some like 2:36:36.760 --> 2:36:39.640 six sided dice to play this really annoying game called 2:36:39.680 --> 2:36:44.199 hot dice, or like bring some D and D dice 2:36:44.360 --> 2:36:46.760 and just start playing like role playing games with people. 2:36:47.200 --> 2:36:50.640 You know, Like there's like having the entertainment things and 2:36:50.680 --> 2:36:53.840 then the other thing. I think it's really worth considering 2:36:53.920 --> 2:36:57.680 having a small musical instrument. I find that, like there's 2:36:57.720 --> 2:37:02.720 a reason that cross punks play music everywhere they go. Yeah, 2:37:02.959 --> 2:37:04.480 are you about to pull out harmonica? 2:37:04.879 --> 2:37:07.600 I have a harmonica in a pistol magazine pouch that 2:37:07.680 --> 2:37:09.400 I take on the side of my bag when I 2:37:09.480 --> 2:37:12.480 go to places. Hell yeah, yeah, we took me so 2:37:12.840 --> 2:37:14.360 when rub It I did on the Amo Trape, but 2:37:14.360 --> 2:37:17.039 I left my harmonica with the people who you're going 2:37:17.120 --> 2:37:18.800 to hit singing at the start of our show. They 2:37:18.840 --> 2:37:20.959 played their guitars and sung for us cool. I left 2:37:21.000 --> 2:37:24.320 them the harmonica and they play it now, yes, harmonica, 2:37:24.800 --> 2:37:26.000 and then go harmonica. 2:37:26.280 --> 2:37:28.400 The one thing that I have in my bug up 2:37:28.400 --> 2:37:30.560 bag that's a little bit extra, but I swear by 2:37:31.440 --> 2:37:35.560 I have a Nintendo Switch and a bunch of physical 2:37:35.800 --> 2:37:40.240 game cartridges for it. Because when twenty twenty hit, I 2:37:40.320 --> 2:37:41.840 lived in the cabin in the middle of nowhere. I 2:37:41.920 --> 2:37:44.280 was off grid, I barely had any electricity. I basically 2:37:44.360 --> 2:37:45.840 had to walk half a mile to my car and 2:37:46.000 --> 2:37:48.000 like charge things in my car for a while until 2:37:48.000 --> 2:37:51.360 I got together enough money to get some solar panels 2:37:51.400 --> 2:37:53.280 and some batteries and stuff, right, because I had not 2:37:53.440 --> 2:37:55.720 planned on having my cabin be suddenly where I lived 2:37:57.040 --> 2:38:00.600 well like full time, not going anywhere else lived. And 2:38:01.720 --> 2:38:04.959 the first thing I got was a little tiny it's 2:38:05.000 --> 2:38:08.480 called a bit boy, and it is a like tiny 2:38:08.720 --> 2:38:13.080 game boy that has every single Nintendo and Super Nintendo 2:38:13.120 --> 2:38:18.120 and Psychogenesis game pirated onto it. Oh wow, and immediately 2:38:18.240 --> 2:38:21.400 ordering that off to the podcast and it costs like 2:38:21.760 --> 2:38:23.520 forty I don't know much they cost now, but they're 2:38:23.560 --> 2:38:26.240 not expensive because they're little weird three D printed pirated 2:38:26.320 --> 2:38:32.720 things and they like use almost no electricity and so 2:38:33.120 --> 2:38:35.880 it uses way less electricity in a cell phone and 2:38:36.000 --> 2:38:39.320 that saved my sanity. And then when I finally got 2:38:39.360 --> 2:38:41.400 my shit together enough to get a Nintendo switch and 2:38:41.480 --> 2:38:44.360 I could play Skyrim, like and it's not that I 2:38:44.560 --> 2:38:46.240 had nothing to do. People are like, oh, you don't 2:38:46.240 --> 2:38:49.480 need to entertain yourself in crisis because you're busy. It's like, look, 2:38:49.520 --> 2:38:53.920 you can probably only physically work on building your house 2:38:54.120 --> 2:38:56.280 to get it ready for the apocalypse. You think you're 2:38:56.320 --> 2:39:00.320 living in for maybe fourteen hours a day, you know, 2:39:00.760 --> 2:39:02.680 maybe ten to fourteen hours. 2:39:03.480 --> 2:39:05.520 Yeah, and if you don't do manual labor right now, 2:39:05.640 --> 2:39:06.800 then it might be a little lesson. 2:39:06.959 --> 2:39:13.440 Yeah, Like you have downtime, not always in every situation, 2:39:13.560 --> 2:39:17.560 but like injured need to sit around and do something 2:39:17.720 --> 2:39:21.800 or you'll you know, like like entertainment is like actually 2:39:21.959 --> 2:39:26.480 really useful. Yes, And if you bring a paperback, and 2:39:26.520 --> 2:39:31.920 I recommend it, bring one that you've already read because 2:39:31.920 --> 2:39:34.640 you know you like it. I like, normally don't reread 2:39:34.680 --> 2:39:37.320 books all that much, but when I need to turn 2:39:37.400 --> 2:39:40.440 my brain off, a book that you've already read, for 2:39:40.520 --> 2:39:43.240 a lot of people is going to do better. And 2:39:43.320 --> 2:39:45.600 if you haven't, So you should get a jump start 2:39:45.680 --> 2:39:46.560 on this by reading. 2:39:46.680 --> 2:39:46.880 Eh. 2:39:47.480 --> 2:39:50.720 My book is Stay There in ceul Island a magnificent 2:39:50.959 --> 2:39:52.200 All right, thanks? Yeah? 2:39:52.240 --> 2:39:54.480 Yeah, so so you can do the table tip roleplaying 2:39:54.520 --> 2:39:55.119 game that we did. 2:39:55.720 --> 2:39:58.279 Yeah, yeah, there's an Escape from Insul Island tabletop roleplaying 2:39:58.280 --> 2:40:00.240 game that's coming out next year. Well, there's this little 2:40:00.280 --> 2:40:02.080 zen version of it that I think you can download now, 2:40:02.120 --> 2:40:04.920 but it's going to be slightly better. Yeah, I could 2:40:05.000 --> 2:40:06.160 keep that in your bag. 2:40:06.240 --> 2:40:07.560 The other thing I was going to plug that I 2:40:07.600 --> 2:40:10.480 forgot about was download the Google Maps onto your phone 2:40:11.560 --> 2:40:15.560 or whatever brand apps you want, maps you want, and 2:40:16.000 --> 2:40:20.880 have a watch that that doesn't need a battery. I 2:40:20.920 --> 2:40:23.520 think that's super handy. You can use the watch to 2:40:23.600 --> 2:40:26.480 tell the direction of south, which what I'll seek if 2:40:26.480 --> 2:40:28.480 you other compass directions if you really need to. 2:40:28.600 --> 2:40:29.840 But you can tell the time. 2:40:30.280 --> 2:40:32.920 You would again be surprised, how like people might imagine 2:40:32.959 --> 2:40:35.320 that after X happens, say it needs to tell the times. 2:40:35.400 --> 2:40:37.280 It won't matter. You probably will need to tell the 2:40:37.360 --> 2:40:40.480 time in most of your crises, you know, even to 2:40:40.560 --> 2:40:42.680 know if something has happened or it's not happened, right, 2:40:42.879 --> 2:40:45.840 And so being able to do that is very handy, 2:40:46.000 --> 2:40:48.400 and having a watch that powers itself is a way 2:40:48.440 --> 2:40:48.680 to do that. 2:40:49.000 --> 2:40:52.560 No, that makes sense. I use one that doesn't power itself, 2:40:52.600 --> 2:40:54.960 but it like lasts three weeks or so on. I'll 2:40:55.080 --> 2:40:58.640 charge and like vaguely charges itself from the sun, but 2:40:58.720 --> 2:41:02.280 not very efficiently. There's also and I know there's like 2:41:03.080 --> 2:41:05.000 now we're getting into the weeds. Okay, here's the other pitch. 2:41:06.000 --> 2:41:10.800 It's fun when besides doing the basics, you can nerd 2:41:10.840 --> 2:41:13.560 out about it, and you can do it cheaply. Because 2:41:13.640 --> 2:41:16.760 nerding out about it is free. You can find your 2:41:16.800 --> 2:41:18.600 other friends that want to talk about this bullshit and 2:41:18.680 --> 2:41:20.800 talk about with this bullshit. You don't have to go 2:41:20.920 --> 2:41:24.280 out and buy fancy crazy shit. Sometimes you want the 2:41:24.320 --> 2:41:26.920 fancy crazy shit, but most of the stuff we're talking 2:41:26.959 --> 2:41:30.800 about is super cheap, and then you can have the 2:41:30.959 --> 2:41:33.080 joy of talking about the shit and getting into the 2:41:33.120 --> 2:41:36.560 weeds with it. But there's a there's an app I 2:41:36.600 --> 2:41:39.760 think it's called Keywix, and it lets you download Wikipedia 2:41:40.840 --> 2:41:44.400 and read it on your phone offline. Yeah, that would 2:41:44.400 --> 2:41:44.640 be good. 2:41:45.280 --> 2:41:47.080 I've just remembered one more thing that Marker and I 2:41:47.200 --> 2:41:49.760 talked about off Michael a while ago, because this is 2:41:49.800 --> 2:41:50.720 the kind of people we are. 2:41:50.879 --> 2:41:52.840 Yeah, it's called bank line. 2:41:53.840 --> 2:41:56.720 Oh yeah, yeah, so the tactical crowd of very enter 2:41:56.760 --> 2:41:59.880 power cord because it's a little bit stronger and you 2:42:00.120 --> 2:42:02.040 pick out the inside lines and stuff. It's also very 2:42:02.080 --> 2:42:05.480 shiny and could be annoying to not sometimes if you 2:42:05.600 --> 2:42:08.680 get some bank line and you need to construct a shelter, 2:42:08.760 --> 2:42:12.280 which is relatively unlikely, you can. If you need to 2:42:12.360 --> 2:42:14.280 repair your clothes and you have a needle, you can 2:42:14.360 --> 2:42:16.760 pick it apart and use it for that. But if 2:42:16.800 --> 2:42:21.400 you're bored, like everyone should know a few knots, you know, 2:42:21.560 --> 2:42:23.920 if you know how to do like a I guess 2:42:24.160 --> 2:42:26.240 figure eight, not if you know how to do a 2:42:26.360 --> 2:42:30.119 truck has hitched a bowl and knot and you're probably 2:42:30.160 --> 2:42:31.800 pretty good if you could do those, honestly, Like, you 2:42:31.840 --> 2:42:34.680 can do a lot of stuff to a justice prussic, 2:42:34.879 --> 2:42:36.240 maybe another friction hitch. 2:42:36.520 --> 2:42:38.360 You can practice those when you're bought. It's fun. 2:42:38.560 --> 2:42:40.440 It's okay. It may not be as fun for you 2:42:40.520 --> 2:42:42.480 as it is for me because I'm that kind of person. 2:42:43.240 --> 2:42:46.920 But if you like to learn stuff and then you 2:42:46.959 --> 2:42:49.080 can share that with someone else, right, it's fun to 2:42:49.120 --> 2:42:50.960 teach people and then they can teach you a couple 2:42:51.600 --> 2:42:54.840 I have taught and learned not from people from half 2:42:54.840 --> 2:42:56.520 a dozen nationalities in the last month. 2:42:56.680 --> 2:42:58.560 And it's fun anyway. It's cool to share. 2:42:58.600 --> 2:43:01.240 It's also like when you're in a situation being like, huh, 2:43:01.640 --> 2:43:03.400 having a moment where you're not thinking about the ship 2:43:03.440 --> 2:43:05.080 situation instead of thinking about that's cool. 2:43:05.120 --> 2:43:05.680 I learned that not. 2:43:06.080 --> 2:43:09.480 Yeah, it's very nice actually and so yeah, like a 2:43:09.560 --> 2:43:12.840 Brazilian rodeo guy taught me a couple of knots that's cool. 2:43:12.920 --> 2:43:15.199 The other day, Yeah, it was sweet. We were helping 2:43:15.560 --> 2:43:19.039 We had dumpster dive some tents that Susan g coheman 2:43:19.160 --> 2:43:22.440 was throwing away, and so we were helping put those 2:43:22.560 --> 2:43:25.240 up and in one case we had their fly sheet 2:43:25.240 --> 2:43:27.320 but not the tent, so we were trying to work 2:43:27.360 --> 2:43:29.360 out how to make them to the top. Did some 2:43:29.400 --> 2:43:30.000 different knots. 2:43:30.280 --> 2:43:30.840 It was fun. 2:43:31.520 --> 2:43:34.240 And bank line is cheaper than para cord. Probably don't 2:43:34.280 --> 2:43:37.080 need the paracord with a fishing line inside. In ninety 2:43:37.200 --> 2:43:40.800 nine percent of circumstances to get some bank line number 2:43:40.840 --> 2:43:42.119 thirty six bank line. 2:43:42.080 --> 2:43:45.760 Okay, and then the other the cross punk challenges. You 2:43:45.879 --> 2:43:49.200 just start fixing your clothes at dental floss. Oh yeah, 2:43:49.440 --> 2:43:51.160 the gloss is great for that. Yeah, yeah, yea. 2:43:51.160 --> 2:43:53.119 I get a sale needle and dental floss and you'll 2:43:53.120 --> 2:43:53.920 smell minty fresh. 2:43:55.120 --> 2:43:57.400 Yeah. And when I make my emergency kits, I take 2:43:57.520 --> 2:44:01.520 little they're sort of sewing new needle vials. I like 2:44:01.600 --> 2:44:04.000 them better than the little slidey kits where everything gets 2:44:04.040 --> 2:44:07.440 lost all the time. Yeah, And I just get these 2:44:07.520 --> 2:44:10.080 little tiny vials. They're clear so everyone knows what's in it. 2:44:10.320 --> 2:44:13.120 And I put safety pins, regular sewing needles, and leather 2:44:13.200 --> 2:44:16.040 sewing needles into them. And then when you're sewing with leather. 2:44:16.360 --> 2:44:19.200 The other thing that I recommend people carry it Okay, 2:44:19.280 --> 2:44:22.039 Like in two thousand and three, if you are a crustpunk, 2:44:22.160 --> 2:44:24.680 the things you need to have on you are at 2:44:24.720 --> 2:44:27.920 all times. You need a folding knife, you need a headlamp, 2:44:28.320 --> 2:44:31.600 you need a multi tool with pliers, and you need 2:44:31.640 --> 2:44:34.680 a sleeping bag and like and a spork and a 2:44:34.760 --> 2:44:38.320 can opener. Yeah, and that's kind of it in a 2:44:38.400 --> 2:44:38.920 lot of ways. 2:44:39.680 --> 2:44:42.520 Yeah, don't combine those things, do it. Be the person 2:44:42.640 --> 2:44:44.920 with the spark multi tool now, because you'll get beans 2:44:44.959 --> 2:44:46.400 in your knife and fucking. 2:44:46.280 --> 2:44:48.720 Well, actually that's called a hobo tool. There actually are 2:44:48.840 --> 2:44:53.040 multi tools that are but oh sorry, spork then it's 2:44:53.040 --> 2:44:54.800 a spoon and a night it's a spoon and on 2:44:54.879 --> 2:44:58.120 one side and for yeah, yeah, yeah, those suck. Don't 2:44:58.400 --> 2:45:02.000 anything that folds. Anything that folds, you should keep it 2:45:02.000 --> 2:45:05.680 away from food. Your folding knife is going to get 2:45:05.760 --> 2:45:09.240 so gross. I mean, you'll do it anyway, but I 2:45:09.320 --> 2:45:11.000 think we're kind of probably at time. 2:45:12.080 --> 2:45:14.560 Yeah, yeah, I could keep going. That's going to get tweezs. 2:45:14.600 --> 2:45:16.520 But okay, yeah, this is enough stuff. 2:45:16.680 --> 2:45:19.800 Yeah, if you want to hear more of this kind 2:45:19.840 --> 2:45:24.120 of content, yeah, Margot, just a whole other podcast. Oh 2:45:24.160 --> 2:45:25.400 I was going to say to you that I'd trick 2:45:25.480 --> 2:45:27.360 them into having me on to talk about this stuff more. 2:45:27.400 --> 2:45:29.360 But yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll have you back. 2:45:29.440 --> 2:45:31.800 We'll do a whole other one film. But Margaret also 2:45:31.840 --> 2:45:33.840 has a whole other podcast which you should listen to. 2:45:33.959 --> 2:45:35.440 What's it cool and where can people find it? 2:45:35.520 --> 2:45:37.240 Margaret? Well, okay, so the Prepper one is called Live 2:45:37.320 --> 2:45:40.360 Like the World Is Dying. Your podcast whar it Feels 2:45:40.400 --> 2:45:42.520 Like the End Times? It comes out every Friday. And 2:45:43.080 --> 2:45:45.320 I also have a cool Zone Media podcast called cool 2:45:45.320 --> 2:45:48.320 People It's Cool stuff where I talk about history and 2:45:48.920 --> 2:45:52.760 about cool people who did cool stuff. And James has 2:45:52.800 --> 2:45:55.280 been on both of these podcasts. So if you want 2:45:55.320 --> 2:45:57.680 to hear us continue to banter about things, there's so 2:45:57.800 --> 2:45:59.680 many more available options available to you. 2:46:01.080 --> 2:46:05.040 Yeah, maybe download them for those terrible times when you 2:46:05.160 --> 2:46:07.000 when you just need the calming voice of Ma and 2:46:07.080 --> 2:46:08.160 Margaret talking about bags. 2:46:08.240 --> 2:46:12.000 That's right, well, just to like just to like, it's okay, 2:46:12.760 --> 2:46:15.440 you're going to get through this. I know that things 2:46:15.440 --> 2:46:20.280 seem bad right now, and they are bad, but it's okay. 2:46:22.080 --> 2:46:24.640 We'll just still an hour of that. Yeah, yeah, to 2:46:24.680 --> 2:46:26.200 an hour of that. I'm proud of you. 2:46:26.640 --> 2:46:32.000 Yeah totally yeah, yeah yeah, we will be your anarchist affirmations. 2:46:32.080 --> 2:46:32.280 Yeah. 2:46:33.320 --> 2:46:36.280 That's another podcast. This has been it could happen here. 2:46:36.360 --> 2:46:36.960 Thank you, Margaret. 2:46:37.120 --> 2:46:37.640 That was wonderful. 2:46:54.240 --> 2:46:59.480 Hello, it's Sharene. Welcome to the pod. I'm back to 2:46:59.520 --> 2:47:03.280 talk about you guessed it Palestine because we need to 2:47:03.360 --> 2:47:07.240 keep talking about it. There is still a ongoing genocide 2:47:07.320 --> 2:47:11.320 happening in Gaza, and if you ask me, a slower 2:47:11.400 --> 2:47:13.920 genocide that's been happening for the last seventy five years 2:47:14.080 --> 2:47:19.720 in Palestine. And there are so many aspects of history 2:47:20.160 --> 2:47:24.199 and of what's currently happening that are worth delving into. Today, 2:47:24.320 --> 2:47:27.680 I wanted to focus on a new investigation by plus 2:47:27.959 --> 2:47:31.480 nine seven to two magazine, and this is an investigation 2:47:31.560 --> 2:47:34.680 that was confirmed by the Guardian, and it reveals that 2:47:34.840 --> 2:47:39.920 Israel is deliberately killing large numbers of Palestinian civilians in Gaza. 2:47:40.920 --> 2:47:43.480 Nita remind you that the Palestinian population in Gaza is 2:47:43.600 --> 2:47:47.760 mostly women and children. Does it mean that palestine men 2:47:47.800 --> 2:47:50.560 are disposable because they are not. That is something I 2:47:50.640 --> 2:47:54.640 do reject about constantly saying women and children. It's only 2:47:54.680 --> 2:47:57.560 because I think it reinforces the idea that every Palestinian 2:47:57.640 --> 2:48:01.800 man could potentially be a terrorist. Really, they are the 2:48:01.879 --> 2:48:04.840 ones pulling people out of the rubble and treating them 2:48:04.879 --> 2:48:10.039 in the hospitals, and Palestinian men are incredible, so their 2:48:10.160 --> 2:48:14.560 loss is just as tragic. My point is, though, that 2:48:16.000 --> 2:48:19.680 I keep seeing Israeli officials on news outlets and everything 2:48:20.520 --> 2:48:24.320 spewing lies and bullshit about how the IOF is trying 2:48:24.400 --> 2:48:27.320 everything they can to avoid civilian death, and that is 2:48:27.440 --> 2:48:30.600 just simply not true. And now there is definitive proof 2:48:30.760 --> 2:48:34.720 that it's not true with this investigation. As of it's recording, 2:48:34.879 --> 2:48:37.600 the death toll in Gaza has risen to over twenty 2:48:37.640 --> 2:48:42.000 one thousand people. This number includes those who are presumed 2:48:42.040 --> 2:48:45.520 to be dead underneath the rubble. At this point, the 2:48:45.600 --> 2:48:49.000 number of killed and displaced Palestinians as higher than the 2:48:49.080 --> 2:48:52.240 number of killed and displaced Palestinians during the Nekaba of 2:48:52.360 --> 2:48:58.279 nineteen forty eight. Right now, almost one point nine million Palestinians, 2:48:58.520 --> 2:49:02.160 which makes up about eighty of Gaza's entire population, have 2:49:02.400 --> 2:49:06.960 been displaced. I really want you guys to absorb what 2:49:07.120 --> 2:49:11.720 that means to eclipse the numbers of the Nekba in 2:49:11.800 --> 2:49:16.040 nineteen forty eight, which is the catastrophe that coincides with 2:49:16.120 --> 2:49:19.000 the establishment of the State of Israel, which up till 2:49:19.040 --> 2:49:23.199 this point was the greatest act of terrorism against Palestinian people. 2:49:24.080 --> 2:49:26.480 So the fact that we have eclipsed the numbers of 2:49:26.520 --> 2:49:30.200 the Nekba, which amounts to about seven hundred and fifty 2:49:30.280 --> 2:49:33.920 thousand Palestinians being displaced and about fifteen thousand people dead. 2:49:34.440 --> 2:49:37.800 To have eclipsed those numbers in about two months is 2:49:38.000 --> 2:49:42.280 truly horrific, and I hope that comes across when you 2:49:42.400 --> 2:49:46.560 hear these numbers. Humanitarian organizations that once warned the world 2:49:46.680 --> 2:49:50.320 of an impending catastrophe in Gaza, are now describing an apocalypse. 2:49:50.760 --> 2:49:54.680 The UN Humanitarian Chief said the situation in Gaza is apocalyptic. 2:49:55.560 --> 2:49:59.320 Israel's relentless bombing of Palestinian society has taken it past 2:49:59.400 --> 2:50:03.360 the point of collapse. Bombs are still falling as winter 2:50:03.560 --> 2:50:08.360 draws near, and millions of Palestinians are starving, dehydrated, sick, 2:50:08.720 --> 2:50:13.600 and living in unsuitable and unsustainable conditions and shelters. In 2:50:13.680 --> 2:50:17.000 addition to this, all cell service in northern Gaza is down. 2:50:17.480 --> 2:50:20.560 Palestinians can't contact their loved ones and they can't share 2:50:20.640 --> 2:50:22.800 the reality of what is going on on the ground. 2:50:23.800 --> 2:50:27.320 Cutting internet access and service is a very deliberate act 2:50:27.400 --> 2:50:30.960 on Israel's part to silence people the same way they've 2:50:31.000 --> 2:50:34.600 been targeting and killing journalists. Israel does not want the 2:50:34.680 --> 2:50:38.000 world to see the truth, and cutting internet access is 2:50:38.040 --> 2:50:41.120 a great way for them to avoid this. Keep in 2:50:41.240 --> 2:50:44.600 mind that news outlets are not allowed in Gaza, so 2:50:44.840 --> 2:50:47.680 the Palestinian journalists on the ground, most of whom are 2:50:47.879 --> 2:50:51.320 very young in their early twenties, they are the ones 2:50:51.360 --> 2:50:54.160 being targeted because they're the ones showing the truth with 2:50:54.280 --> 2:50:57.920 their photos and videos and activism and news. So I 2:50:58.000 --> 2:51:00.600 want you guys to keep in mind how deliberate everything 2:51:00.720 --> 2:51:04.480 Israel does is when it comes to cutting internet, food, 2:51:05.320 --> 2:51:08.520 water from Gaza, it is deliberately starving and cutting off 2:51:08.600 --> 2:51:14.120 these people. Nowhere in Gaza is safe. Israel is bombing everywhere, 2:51:14.440 --> 2:51:17.280 including the areas they tell Palestinians to go to to 2:51:17.360 --> 2:51:20.959 find safety from the bombs. So there are no safe zones. 2:51:21.000 --> 2:51:25.400 Regardless of what Israeli officials are telling us. Everywhere is 2:51:25.600 --> 2:51:30.320 unsafe because Israel is bombing everything, including the areas they're 2:51:30.320 --> 2:51:33.640 supposed to go to for safety. Israel is not trying 2:51:33.840 --> 2:51:37.480 in the slightest to avoid civilian casualties. And that's what 2:51:37.520 --> 2:51:41.240 we're going to talk about today. So this investigation is 2:51:41.320 --> 2:51:44.240 based on conversations with current and former members of the 2:51:44.320 --> 2:51:47.960 Israeli intelligence community, as well as reports from Palestinians and 2:51:48.080 --> 2:51:53.320 independent data. It explains how destroying Palestinian homes and society 2:51:53.400 --> 2:51:56.840 and the process of killing Palaestinian civilians is very deliberate 2:51:56.920 --> 2:52:00.400 as well. It explains the tactics Israel has used to 2:52:00.520 --> 2:52:03.760 kill Palestinians at an accelerated rate during the past two months, 2:52:04.080 --> 2:52:08.280 which amounts to a clear cutcase of genocide as well 2:52:08.320 --> 2:52:12.120 as genocidal intent. I truly can't believe there are still 2:52:12.320 --> 2:52:15.280 so many people in denial that what is going on 2:52:15.400 --> 2:52:19.000 in Palestine is in fact a genocide, because I've heard 2:52:19.080 --> 2:52:22.560 truly the most inane arguments as if to prove their 2:52:22.600 --> 2:52:25.880 point this isn't a genocide, whether it's about population growth 2:52:26.320 --> 2:52:29.560 or the fact that Israel hasn't killed enough people. But 2:52:30.200 --> 2:52:32.640 I'll have to get into that later, only because I 2:52:32.800 --> 2:52:36.000 will go on forever and just start ranting. But if 2:52:36.040 --> 2:52:39.120 every genocidal scholar and Israeli historian I can think of 2:52:40.080 --> 2:52:43.400 agrees this is a genocide, if humanitarian organizations are also 2:52:43.440 --> 2:52:46.560 telling you this is in fact, the genocide is a genocide. 2:52:47.240 --> 2:52:49.800 Genocide is about intent on the part of the person 2:52:49.879 --> 2:52:52.640 committing the genocide or the entity commuting the genocide. It's 2:52:52.640 --> 2:52:57.520 about intent and about the actions. It is not about 2:52:58.280 --> 2:53:01.240 birth rate or whatever the as Ionists will try to 2:53:01.320 --> 2:53:04.359 argue about. It's not about that, and what's happening is genocide, 2:53:04.480 --> 2:53:07.320 whether you want to hear that or not. This investigation 2:53:07.440 --> 2:53:10.199 also explains how Israel seeks out what it calls quote 2:53:10.240 --> 2:53:14.600 unquote power targets to bomb power targets are non military 2:53:14.680 --> 2:53:18.199 targets like homes and public buildings like schools and hospitals, 2:53:18.680 --> 2:53:22.000 and Israel targets and bombs these for the direct purpose 2:53:22.040 --> 2:53:27.120 of terrorizing Palestinian civilians and harming their society. Israel's deliberate 2:53:27.160 --> 2:53:31.279 attacks on Palestinians and their society are illegal and inhumane, 2:53:31.680 --> 2:53:35.160 to say the very least. Then again, something being illegal 2:53:35.400 --> 2:53:38.720 truly means nothing at this point, because Israel has violated 2:53:38.800 --> 2:53:43.959 international law for decades without any repercussions whatsoever. Something being 2:53:44.200 --> 2:53:49.360 illegal means nothing, and the un feels useless because nothing 2:53:49.480 --> 2:53:52.119 ever happens. This is not the first time Israel has 2:53:52.480 --> 2:53:55.200 murdered Palestinians indiscriminately. It's not the first time they have 2:53:55.360 --> 2:53:58.680 violated international law or committed war crimes. But nothing ever 2:53:58.720 --> 2:54:02.920 happened before, so why would it happen now. Permissive air 2:54:02.959 --> 2:54:05.440 strikes on non military targets and the use of an 2:54:05.560 --> 2:54:09.360 artificial intelligence system have enabled the Israeli Army to carry 2:54:09.400 --> 2:54:13.680 out the deadliest attack on Gaza. Ever, so, the Israeli 2:54:13.800 --> 2:54:17.680 Army's expanded authorization for bombing non military targets, the loosening 2:54:17.800 --> 2:54:21.680 of constraints regarding expected civilian casualties and the use of 2:54:21.720 --> 2:54:25.240 an artificial intelligence system to generate more potential targets than 2:54:25.240 --> 2:54:29.080 ever before. All of this has contributed to the destructive 2:54:29.200 --> 2:54:33.600 nature in the deadliest military campaign against Palestinians since the 2:54:33.720 --> 2:54:38.000 Nekpa of nineteen forty eight. As I mentioned. This investigation 2:54:38.120 --> 2:54:40.560 by plus nine seven to two magazine and local call 2:54:41.160 --> 2:54:44.760 is based on conversations with seven current and former members 2:54:44.840 --> 2:54:49.520 of Israel's intelligence community, including military intelligence and air force personnel, 2:54:49.760 --> 2:54:53.400 who were involved in Israeli operations in the besieged Gaza Strip. 2:54:54.120 --> 2:54:58.200 In addition to this includes Palestinian testimonies, data and documentation 2:54:58.280 --> 2:55:01.120 from the Gaza Strip, as well as official statements by 2:55:01.200 --> 2:55:06.000 IOWS spokespeople and other Israeli state institutions. Compared to the 2:55:06.120 --> 2:55:10.440 previous Israeli assaults on Gaza, the current attack, I will 2:55:10.480 --> 2:55:12.360 never call it a war. This is not a war. 2:55:13.360 --> 2:55:16.279 I have said this before. A war indicates both sides 2:55:16.520 --> 2:55:18.920 are equal and have an army, but you literally can't 2:55:19.959 --> 2:55:23.640 go to war with an entity you are occupying. Regardless, 2:55:24.080 --> 2:55:28.160 compared to previous assaults on Gaza, what's happening now is unprecedented. 2:55:28.959 --> 2:55:31.480 Israel has named the current attack on Gaza that is 2:55:31.520 --> 2:55:35.480 happening now, the current genocide. It has named its actions 2:55:35.520 --> 2:55:37.880 that have started in the wake of October seventh, after 2:55:37.920 --> 2:55:42.200 the Hamas attack, Operation Iron Swords, and we've seen the 2:55:42.320 --> 2:55:46.160 Israeli armies significantly expand its bombing of targets that are 2:55:46.240 --> 2:55:50.760 not distinctly military in nature. This includes private residences as 2:55:50.800 --> 2:55:54.480 well as public buildings, infrastructure, and high rise blocks, which 2:55:54.720 --> 2:55:59.040 sources say the army defines as these power targets. Israel 2:55:59.080 --> 2:56:02.360 seeks out these power targets to bomb. Power targets again, 2:56:02.520 --> 2:56:05.920 are non military targets like homes in public buildings, and 2:56:06.080 --> 2:56:09.320 Israel again targets and bombs these for the purpose of 2:56:09.480 --> 2:56:13.360 terrorizing Palestinian civilians and harming their society. And this is 2:56:13.400 --> 2:56:16.560 according to intelligence sources who had first hand experience with 2:56:16.640 --> 2:56:19.680 this application in Gaza in the past, who confirmed that 2:56:19.800 --> 2:56:23.160 not only is it mainly intended to harm Palestinian civil society, 2:56:23.520 --> 2:56:26.400 but it's also meant to quote create a shock that, 2:56:26.560 --> 2:56:30.200 among other things, will reverberate powerfully and lead civilians to 2:56:30.280 --> 2:56:34.199 put pressure on Hamas, as one source put it. Several 2:56:34.280 --> 2:56:37.600 sources spoke on the condition of anonymity, and they confirmed 2:56:37.640 --> 2:56:40.440 that the Israeli Army has files of the vast majority 2:56:40.480 --> 2:56:44.240 of potential targets in Gaza, including homes, which stipulate the 2:56:44.320 --> 2:56:46.520 number of civilians who are likely to be killed in 2:56:46.600 --> 2:56:50.119 an attack on a particular target. This number of casualties 2:56:50.280 --> 2:56:53.880 is calculated and known in advance to the army's intelligence units, 2:56:54.120 --> 2:56:57.480 who also know shortly before carrying out an attack roughly 2:56:57.560 --> 2:57:01.320 how many civilians are certain to be killed. So the 2:57:01.440 --> 2:57:04.840 Israeli Army knows just how many Palestinian civilians they'll kill 2:57:04.920 --> 2:57:09.040 with each strike, and Israel kills them anyway, fully aware 2:57:09.080 --> 2:57:12.440 of the number of civilian death that will ensue. In 2:57:12.560 --> 2:57:15.920 one case discussed by these sources, the Israeli military command 2:57:16.120 --> 2:57:19.920 knowingly approved the killing of hundreds of Palestinian civilians in 2:57:20.040 --> 2:57:25.199 an attempt to assassinate a single top hamass military commander. Allegedly. 2:57:26.000 --> 2:57:29.400 One source said the numbers increased from dozens of civilian 2:57:29.480 --> 2:57:32.720 deaths permitted as collateral damage as part of an attack 2:57:32.800 --> 2:57:35.800 on a senior official in previous operations two hundreds of 2:57:35.879 --> 2:57:40.560 civilian deaths as collateral damage. Another source said nothing happens 2:57:40.600 --> 2:57:43.600 by accident when a three year old girl is killed 2:57:43.640 --> 2:57:45.880 in a home in Gaza. It's because someone in the 2:57:46.000 --> 2:57:48.040 army decided it wasn't a big deal for her to 2:57:48.120 --> 2:57:50.960 be killed, that it was a price worth paying in 2:57:51.120 --> 2:57:54.760 order to hit another target. We are not Hamas. These 2:57:54.800 --> 2:57:59.160 are not random rockets. Everything is intentional. We know exactly 2:57:59.280 --> 2:58:03.560 how much collect damage there is in every home. The 2:58:03.640 --> 2:58:07.840 investigation revealed that another reason for the overwhelming civilian death toll, 2:58:07.959 --> 2:58:10.320 as well as a number of targets in Gaza, is 2:58:10.400 --> 2:58:14.400 the widespread use of an AI system called Habsaora aka 2:58:14.720 --> 2:58:18.840 the Gospel. The Gospel is largely built on artificial intelligence 2:58:18.920 --> 2:58:22.600 and can generate targets almost automatically, at a rate that 2:58:22.840 --> 2:58:26.840 far exceeds what was previously possible. This AI system, as 2:58:26.920 --> 2:58:31.680 described by a former intelligence officer, essentially facilitates, in his words, 2:58:32.160 --> 2:58:37.680 a mass assassination factory. Israeli sources said that the increasing 2:58:37.800 --> 2:58:41.240 use of AI based systems like Habsora allow the army 2:58:41.320 --> 2:58:44.000 to carry out strikes on residential homes where a single 2:58:44.040 --> 2:58:47.640 Hamas member lives on a massive scale, But testimonies of 2:58:47.680 --> 2:58:51.560 Palestinians argue that the army attacked many private residences where 2:58:51.560 --> 2:58:54.680 there was no known or apparent member of Hamas anywhere 2:58:54.760 --> 2:58:58.720 inside or any other militant group residing such strikes can 2:58:58.800 --> 2:59:01.720 knowingly kill entire families in the process, and that is 2:59:01.800 --> 2:59:04.920 exactly what has happened and keeps happening. In the majority 2:59:04.959 --> 2:59:08.400 of cases, the sources said, military activity is not conducted 2:59:08.480 --> 2:59:11.720 from these targeted homes. One of them said, I remember 2:59:11.800 --> 2:59:14.720 thinking that it was like if Palestinian militants would bomb 2:59:14.760 --> 2:59:18.279 all the private residences of our families when Israeli soldiers 2:59:18.360 --> 2:59:21.240 go back to sleep at home on the weekend. The 2:59:21.360 --> 2:59:24.600 source was apparently critical of this practice. He's still a 2:59:24.640 --> 2:59:27.640 fucking soldier, so I don't give a shit. Another source 2:59:27.760 --> 2:59:30.959 said that a senior intelligence officer told his officers after 2:59:31.040 --> 2:59:35.120 October seventh that the criteria around harming Palestinian civilians were 2:59:35.160 --> 2:59:39.600 significantly relaxed. As such, there are quote cases in which 2:59:39.640 --> 2:59:42.920 we shall based on a wide cellular pinpointing of where 2:59:42.920 --> 2:59:46.400 the target is killing civilians. This is done to save 2:59:46.560 --> 2:59:49.160 time instead of doing a little more work to get 2:59:49.280 --> 2:59:53.640 more accurate pinpointing, said the source. The result of these 2:59:53.720 --> 2:59:57.400 policies is the staggering loss of human life in Gaza. 2:59:57.520 --> 3:00:01.880 Since October seventh, over three hundred families have lost ten 3:00:02.120 --> 3:00:04.760 or more family members in the Israeli bombings over the 3:00:04.840 --> 3:00:09.120 past two months. That number is fifteen times higher the 3:00:09.200 --> 3:00:12.080 figure from what was previously Israel's dead las war on 3:00:12.160 --> 3:00:16.440 Gaza in twenty fourteen. One source said there is a 3:00:16.560 --> 3:00:19.120 feeling that senior officials in the army are aware of 3:00:19.200 --> 3:00:22.000 their failure on October seventh and are busy with the 3:00:22.120 --> 3:00:24.600 question of how to provide the Israeli public with an 3:00:24.680 --> 3:00:28.640 image of victory that will salvage the reputation. I just 3:00:28.680 --> 3:00:35.000 think it's really pathetic that an entire army will bomb 3:00:35.200 --> 3:00:39.400 and obliterate a piece of land with millions of people 3:00:39.480 --> 3:00:43.280 on it because they're essentially embarrassed that they failed. It 3:00:43.400 --> 3:00:47.279 really just makes you realize that humans are small, silly 3:00:47.360 --> 3:00:51.400 creatures that are just too powerful for their own good. 3:00:52.280 --> 3:00:54.880 Getting your ego slighted is not an excuse for committing 3:00:54.879 --> 3:00:57.520 a genocide, and there's nothing you can say to make 3:00:57.600 --> 3:01:01.000 me think otherwise. From the first moment after the October 3:01:01.040 --> 3:01:04.760 seventh attack, politicians in Israel openly declared that the response 3:01:04.800 --> 3:01:08.320 would be of a completely different magnitude to previous military 3:01:08.360 --> 3:01:14.520 operations in Gaza. Idspokesperson Danielle Hagari on October ninth, said, 3:01:14.959 --> 3:01:19.040 the emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy, and 3:01:19.240 --> 3:01:24.720 the army swiftly translated these declarations into actions. Israeli intelligence 3:01:24.800 --> 3:01:28.320 divides its targets in Gaza into four categories. The first 3:01:28.560 --> 3:01:32.840 is tactical targets, which include standard military targets like armed 3:01:32.920 --> 3:01:38.199 militant cells, weapon warehouses, rocket launchers, anti tank missile launchers, 3:01:38.320 --> 3:01:41.960 launch pits, mortar bombs, military headquarters, observation posts, and so on. 3:01:43.080 --> 3:01:47.120 The second is underground targets, mainly tunnels that Hamas has 3:01:47.200 --> 3:01:52.120 dug under Gaza's neighborhoods, including under civilian homes. Aerial strikes 3:01:52.160 --> 3:01:54.320 on these targets could lead to the collapse of the 3:01:54.400 --> 3:01:58.400 homes above or near the tunnels. The third is what 3:01:58.520 --> 3:02:02.320 we're talking about earlier power targets, which includes the high 3:02:02.400 --> 3:02:05.560 rises and residential towers and the heart of cities, as 3:02:05.600 --> 3:02:09.320 well as public buildings like universities, banks, and government offices. 3:02:09.959 --> 3:02:13.840 The idea behind hitting such targets, say three intelligence sources 3:02:13.879 --> 3:02:16.800 who were involved in planning or conducting strikes on power 3:02:16.879 --> 3:02:20.800 targets in the past, say that a deliberate attack, devastation 3:02:21.040 --> 3:02:26.200 and destruction of Palestinian society will exert civil pressure on Hamas. 3:02:26.800 --> 3:02:30.720 The final category of targets are family homes. The stated 3:02:30.800 --> 3:02:33.800 purpose of these attacks is to destroy private residences in 3:02:33.959 --> 3:02:36.960 order to assassinate a single resident suspected of being a 3:02:37.000 --> 3:02:41.800 Hamas member or an Islamic Jahad operative, but Palestinian testimonies 3:02:41.800 --> 3:02:44.280 explained that most of the families that were killed did 3:02:44.320 --> 3:02:48.600 not include any operatives from any organization. In the early 3:02:48.680 --> 3:02:51.720 stages of the current genocide, the Israeli army appear to 3:02:51.800 --> 3:02:55.160 have given particular attention to the third and fourth categories. 3:02:55.959 --> 3:02:59.279 According to statements on October eleventh by the IOF spokesperson, 3:02:59.600 --> 3:03:02.680 during the first five days of fighting, half the targets bombed, 3:03:02.920 --> 3:03:05.520 which amounts to one thousand, three hundred and twenty nine 3:03:05.680 --> 3:03:07.720 out of a total of two than six hundred and 3:03:07.760 --> 3:03:11.440 eighty seven or deemed power targets. Just to loop in 3:03:11.520 --> 3:03:14.520 the people that maybe don't know. But IOF is used 3:03:14.560 --> 3:03:18.080 instead of IDF by a lot of Palacini activists because 3:03:18.120 --> 3:03:20.920 they define it, and I define it as Israeli occupation 3:03:21.080 --> 3:03:23.920 forces and not defense forces, because what they're doing has 3:03:24.000 --> 3:03:26.960 never been defense. So you might see many people call 3:03:27.000 --> 3:03:30.240 it IOF because that is what they're referring to. Israeli 3:03:30.280 --> 3:03:34.560 occupation forces. One source said, we are asked to look 3:03:34.640 --> 3:03:37.120 for high rise building with half a floor that can 3:03:37.160 --> 3:03:40.800 be attributed to hamas. Sometimes it is a militant group's 3:03:40.879 --> 3:03:45.440 spokesperson's office or a point where operatives meet. I understood 3:03:45.560 --> 3:03:48.320 that the floor is an excuse that allows the army 3:03:48.400 --> 3:03:50.920 to cause a lot of destruction in Gaza. That is 3:03:50.959 --> 3:03:53.440 what they told us. If they would tell the whole 3:03:53.520 --> 3:03:55.959 world that the Islamic stuh Hot offices on the tenth 3:03:56.040 --> 3:03:59.000 floor are not important as a target, but that its 3:03:59.080 --> 3:04:02.800 existence is justification to bring down the entire high rise 3:04:02.879 --> 3:04:06.040 with the aim of pressuring civilian families who live in 3:04:06.120 --> 3:04:09.680 it in order to put pressure on terrorist organizations. This 3:04:09.879 --> 3:04:13.440 itself would be seen as terrorism, so they do not 3:04:13.560 --> 3:04:18.599 say that. As expected. Testimonies and videos from Gaza, unsurprisingly 3:04:18.840 --> 3:04:20.920 show that some of these targets that have been attacked 3:04:21.000 --> 3:04:24.040 have been attacked without warning and without prior notice given 3:04:24.120 --> 3:04:27.720 to their occupants, thus killing entire families as a result. 3:04:28.640 --> 3:04:31.960 Let's take our first break here, because that's what we do, 3:04:33.480 --> 3:04:36.680 and we are back you and data for the period 3:04:36.800 --> 3:04:40.080 up until November eleventh, by which time Israel had killed 3:04:40.160 --> 3:04:43.880 eleven thousand and seventy eight Palestinians in Gaza stated that 3:04:43.959 --> 3:04:46.800 at least three hundred and twelve families have lost ten 3:04:46.959 --> 3:04:50.720 or more people in Gaza. For the sake of comparison, 3:04:51.280 --> 3:04:56.000 Operation Protective Edge in twenty fourteen, twenty families in Gaza 3:04:56.120 --> 3:05:00.320 lost ten or more people twenty in comparison to over 3:05:00.440 --> 3:05:04.560 three hundred now. In addition, according to the UN, at 3:05:04.640 --> 3:05:07.360 least one hundred and eighty nine families have lost between 3:05:07.440 --> 3:05:10.640 six and nine people, while five hundred and forty nine 3:05:10.680 --> 3:05:14.480 families have lost between two and five people. According to 3:05:14.560 --> 3:05:17.560 the UN, and this number is changing and unfortunately rising 3:05:17.680 --> 3:05:21.200 even as we speak. One point nine million Palestinians, which 3:05:21.240 --> 3:05:23.960 is the vast majority of the Strip's population, have been 3:05:24.000 --> 3:05:28.040 displaced within Gaza since October seventh. The IOF claims that 3:05:28.160 --> 3:05:31.040 the demand to evacuate the strips north was intended to 3:05:31.080 --> 3:05:35.440 protect civilian lives. However, Palestinians and most of the world 3:05:35.560 --> 3:05:38.560 see this for what it is that this mass displacement 3:05:38.720 --> 3:05:41.760 is part of a new Nekba, an attempt to ethnically 3:05:41.840 --> 3:05:45.280 cleanse part or all of the territory. And I'm not 3:05:45.480 --> 3:05:49.439 just making up the phrase new Nekba because Israeli politicians 3:05:49.480 --> 3:05:52.720 and officials have described what is happening right now as 3:05:52.800 --> 3:05:56.760 a nekba, as well as stating genocidal intent in many 3:05:56.840 --> 3:06:00.960 other ways. So Duve Waxman, the Directtion euro of UCLA's 3:06:01.160 --> 3:06:04.400 Y and S. Nazarin Center for Israel Studies, talked a 3:06:04.400 --> 3:06:07.200 little bit about this in a phone interview with NBC News. 3:06:08.320 --> 3:06:11.200 Some of that rhetoric can be seen as potentially genocidal 3:06:11.280 --> 3:06:15.080 from the way it dehumanizes Palestinian civilians. He noted that 3:06:15.240 --> 3:06:17.880 the right wing ministers who made comments like this are 3:06:17.959 --> 3:06:20.600 quote not in the war cabinet, so their awards can 3:06:20.680 --> 3:06:24.240 only have so much impact on Israeli policy. But still, 3:06:24.800 --> 3:06:28.640 hearing ministers of any kind in public, officials with millions 3:06:28.680 --> 3:06:32.279 of followers and eyes on them, make suggestions like flattening 3:06:32.360 --> 3:06:37.840 Gaza with a nuclear bomb should be concerning. Nonetheless, Agriculture 3:06:37.920 --> 3:06:41.560 Minister Avi Dickter, a member of the right wing Lecud party, 3:06:41.680 --> 3:06:45.000 told Israeli Channel twelve that the quote unquote war would 3:06:45.040 --> 3:06:49.480 be Gaza's nekba, using this Arabic word for catastrophe that 3:06:49.840 --> 3:06:52.680 we all use to describe the nineteen forty eight displacement 3:06:53.000 --> 3:06:57.440 of Palestinians as well as their genocide. He said, from 3:06:57.440 --> 3:06:59.800 an operational point of view, there is no way to 3:06:59.840 --> 3:07:02.520 wage a war as the Israeli army seeks to do 3:07:02.640 --> 3:07:05.880 in Gaza with masses between the tanks and the soldiers. 3:07:06.760 --> 3:07:09.199 When Dictor was pressed on his use of the word 3:07:09.360 --> 3:07:12.840 nekba to describe the situation in Gaza, he said again, 3:07:13.240 --> 3:07:18.160 doubling down, Gaza nekba twenty twenty three, that's how it'll end. 3:07:19.360 --> 3:07:22.480 A week before these comments were made, Israeli Heritage Minister 3:07:22.720 --> 3:07:26.600 Amahai Iliyahu apologies from his pronouncing it, but also not 3:07:26.760 --> 3:07:31.520 really sparked outcry after he suggested that dropping a nuclear 3:07:31.640 --> 3:07:34.200 bomb on the Gaza strip was quote one of the 3:07:34.280 --> 3:07:38.920 possibilities in the current conflict. Also, it's important to remember 3:07:39.040 --> 3:07:42.040 that the increasingly hostile rhetoric from Israel's far right cabinet 3:07:42.080 --> 3:07:45.760 ministers has not only centered on Gaza, but also the 3:07:45.840 --> 3:07:50.000 occupied West Bank. An example of this is when Israeli 3:07:50.120 --> 3:07:54.480 Finance Minister Bezialel Simotrik, who was a prominent settler advocist, 3:07:54.959 --> 3:07:57.760 called for the creation of quote sterile zones in the 3:07:57.800 --> 3:08:00.240 West Bank in a letter that he sent Anya who 3:08:00.440 --> 3:08:04.160 and Yoov Galant, the Defense Minister, and this letter was 3:08:04.240 --> 3:08:08.200 shared with Israeli media. Such sterile zones, he said, with 3:08:08.320 --> 3:08:11.680 block Palestinians from entering certain areas and bar them from 3:08:11.760 --> 3:08:15.920 harvesting olives close to Israeli settlements in the enclave. This 3:08:16.120 --> 3:08:19.280 letter also came during the annual olive harvest, with ol 3:08:19.360 --> 3:08:22.320 of farming being a primary source of income for many 3:08:22.360 --> 3:08:25.720 Palestinian farmers in the West Bank. It also came during 3:08:25.760 --> 3:08:28.560 a surge of settler violence against Palestinians in the area, 3:08:28.680 --> 3:08:31.640 which has only increased since then. There was a law 3:08:31.720 --> 3:08:33.480 that was passed a couple of years ago. I believe 3:08:33.640 --> 3:08:38.640 that essentially allows Israeli soldiers to shoot unarmed Palestinians without 3:08:38.680 --> 3:08:41.920 any legal repercussions, and we're seeing that happen in real 3:08:41.959 --> 3:08:45.000 time in the West Bank. So as this genocide is 3:08:45.080 --> 3:08:48.160 unfold Gangaza, keep in mind there's no Hamas in the 3:08:48.200 --> 3:08:51.600 West Bank and they are still committing acts of terror. 3:08:51.640 --> 3:08:54.120 There also a side note, if you guys want to 3:08:54.160 --> 3:08:58.439 learn about the significance of olives and olive trees for Palestine, 3:08:58.520 --> 3:09:01.000 I did an episode about that. You can look it up. 3:09:01.520 --> 3:09:03.960 But the olive harvest and olives and olive trees in 3:09:04.040 --> 3:09:07.760 particular are very significant part of Palestinian life. One such 3:09:07.840 --> 3:09:12.120 case of both increasing settler violence and targeting olives and 3:09:12.240 --> 3:09:15.959 all of farmers in particular is in Balal Saleh, who 3:09:16.080 --> 3:09:19.039 was killed while tending to his olive trees earlier this month. 3:09:19.800 --> 3:09:22.959 An elderly couple were also attacked by settlers last month 3:09:23.080 --> 3:09:27.320 without provocation while collecting olives in the West Bank. Comments 3:09:27.400 --> 3:09:30.280 like those made by Simotrik only in bolden settlers to 3:09:30.400 --> 3:09:34.240 attack Palestinians again. I want to mention here that it 3:09:34.360 --> 3:09:37.200 is not against Israeli law for soldiers to shoot at 3:09:37.320 --> 3:09:41.199 unarmed Palestinians. It is permissible and done all the time. 3:09:41.600 --> 3:09:44.560 When that is the norm. Of course, you're going to 3:09:44.680 --> 3:09:49.840 have hateful settlers adopting the same strategy when they're armed 3:09:49.959 --> 3:09:54.000 with no repercussions. According to the Israeli Army, during the 3:09:54.040 --> 3:09:57.560 first five days of fighting, it dropped six thousand bombs 3:09:57.640 --> 3:09:59.840 on the Gaza Strip with a total weight of a 3:10:00.280 --> 3:10:04.120 four thousand tons. Media outlets reported that the army had 3:10:04.160 --> 3:10:08.160 wiped out entire neighborhoods. According to the Gaza based Elmizan 3:10:08.320 --> 3:10:11.720 Center for Human Rights, these attacks led to the complete 3:10:11.760 --> 3:10:15.880 destruction of residential neighborhoods, the destruction of infrastructure, and the 3:10:15.959 --> 3:10:20.600 mass killing of residents, as documented by Ademizan and numerous 3:10:20.600 --> 3:10:23.879 images coming out of Gaza. Israel bombed the Islamic University 3:10:23.959 --> 3:10:27.040 of Gaza, as well as the palastinan Bar Association, a 3:10:27.200 --> 3:10:30.960 un building for educational programs for outstanding students, a building 3:10:31.080 --> 3:10:35.560 belonging to the Palestine Telecommunications Company, the Ministry of National Economy, 3:10:35.720 --> 3:10:38.920 the Ministry of Culture, roads, and dozens of high rise 3:10:38.959 --> 3:10:44.200 buildings and homes, especially in Gaza's northern neighborhoods, again striking 3:10:44.280 --> 3:10:47.560 targets like these functions primarily as a means that allow 3:10:47.720 --> 3:10:51.360 damage to civil society. That is a direct quote from 3:10:51.440 --> 3:10:55.519 a source, and the sources understood, some explicitly and some implicitly, 3:10:55.959 --> 3:10:59.320 that damage to civilians is the real purpose of these attacks. 3:11:00.440 --> 3:11:03.400 In May twenty twenty one, Israel was heavily criticized for 3:11:03.480 --> 3:11:07.160 bombing the El Jallah Tower, which housed prominent international media 3:11:07.200 --> 3:11:11.360 outlets like Al Jazeera, AP and AFP. A source said, 3:11:11.720 --> 3:11:14.280 the perception is that it really hurts Hamas when high 3:11:14.320 --> 3:11:16.840 rise buildings are taken down because it creates a public 3:11:16.920 --> 3:11:20.120 reaction in the Gaza Strip and scares the population. They 3:11:20.200 --> 3:11:22.400 wanted to give the citizens of Gaza the feeling that 3:11:22.480 --> 3:11:25.720 Hamas is not in control of the situation. Sometimes they 3:11:25.800 --> 3:11:30.640 toppled buildings and sometimes postal service and government buildings. The 3:11:30.760 --> 3:11:34.240 idea of causing mass devastation to civilian areas for strategic 3:11:34.320 --> 3:11:39.040 purposes was formulated in previous military operations in Gaza, honed 3:11:39.120 --> 3:11:41.720 in by the so called Dahiya doctrine from the Second 3:11:41.800 --> 3:11:44.920 Lebanon War of two thousand and six. According to the 3:11:45.000 --> 3:11:49.439 Dahiya doctrine developed by former iof's Chief of Staff Gadi Zenkot, 3:11:49.720 --> 3:11:51.640 who was now a kanescant member and part of the 3:11:51.720 --> 3:11:55.640 current war cabinet. According to him and this doctrine, in 3:11:55.720 --> 3:11:58.920 a war against guerrilla groups such as Hamas or Husbandlah, 3:11:59.440 --> 3:12:04.520 Israel thus use disproportionate and overwhelming force while targeting civilian 3:12:04.560 --> 3:12:08.960 and government infrastructure in order to establish deterrence and force 3:12:09.040 --> 3:12:12.320 a civilian population to pressure the groups to end their attacks. 3:12:12.879 --> 3:12:15.920 The concept of power targets also seems to have been 3:12:16.000 --> 3:12:19.800 emanated from this same logic. The first time the Israeli 3:12:19.920 --> 3:12:22.800 Army publicly defined power targets in Gaza was at the 3:12:22.959 --> 3:12:26.800 end of Operation Protective Edge in twenty fourteen, the army 3:12:26.879 --> 3:12:29.720 bombed four buildings during the last four days of the war, 3:12:30.160 --> 3:12:33.080 three residential multi story buildings in Gaza City and a 3:12:33.200 --> 3:12:37.360 high rise in Rafa. The security establishment explained at the 3:12:37.400 --> 3:12:39.720 time that the attacks were intended to convey to the 3:12:39.800 --> 3:12:44.040 Palestinians in Gaza that quote, nothing is immune anymore, and 3:12:44.160 --> 3:12:46.640 to put pressure on Hamas to agree to a cease fire. 3:12:47.480 --> 3:12:51.160 An Amnesty report in late twenty fourteen stated, the evidence 3:12:51.200 --> 3:12:54.240 we collected shows that a massive destruction of the buildings 3:12:54.360 --> 3:13:00.400 was carried out deliberately without any military justification. Previous operations 3:13:00.440 --> 3:13:03.200 have also shown how striking these targets is meant not 3:13:03.360 --> 3:13:06.959 to only harm Palestinian morale, but also raised the morale 3:13:07.160 --> 3:13:11.360 inside Israel. Herods revealed that during Operation Guardian of the 3:13:11.440 --> 3:13:15.040 Walls in twenty twenty one, the IOF Spokesperson's unit conducted 3:13:15.080 --> 3:13:17.880 a si off against Israeli citizens in order to boost 3:13:17.879 --> 3:13:20.959 awareness of the iof's operation in Gaza and the damage 3:13:21.000 --> 3:13:25.279 they caused to Palestinians. Soldiers using fake social media accounts 3:13:25.320 --> 3:13:29.080 to conceal the campaign's origin, uploaded images and clips of 3:13:29.160 --> 3:13:32.520 the army's strikes in Gaza to Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and 3:13:32.600 --> 3:13:35.600 TikTok in order to demonstrate the army's prowess to the 3:13:35.760 --> 3:13:40.640 Israeli public, which is, in my opinion, pathetic. During the 3:13:40.680 --> 3:13:43.840 twenty twenty one assault, Israel struck nine targets that were 3:13:43.879 --> 3:13:47.359 defined as power targets, all of them high rise buildings. 3:13:48.000 --> 3:13:51.320 One security source said the goal was to collapse the 3:13:51.440 --> 3:13:54.360 high rises so that the Israeli public would see a 3:13:54.520 --> 3:13:58.200 victory image. The bottom line is that they knocked down 3:13:58.240 --> 3:14:00.760 a high rise for the sake of knocking down a 3:14:00.840 --> 3:14:03.960 high rise. Let's take our second break and we'll be 3:14:04.080 --> 3:14:09.280 right back. We're back, okay. So not only are we 3:14:09.360 --> 3:14:13.039 seeing Israel attack an unprecedented number of power targets, we're 3:14:13.040 --> 3:14:16.199 also getting testimonies from Palestinian residents in Gaza that indicate 3:14:16.320 --> 3:14:19.840 that since October seventh, Israel has attacked high rises with 3:14:19.920 --> 3:14:23.960 their residents still inside without prior warning, which leads to 3:14:24.080 --> 3:14:28.880 many civilian deaths. Such attacks obviously result in the killing 3:14:28.959 --> 3:14:32.680 of entire families, and this was experienced in previous offenses. 3:14:33.320 --> 3:14:36.640 According to an investigation by AP conducted after the twenty 3:14:36.720 --> 3:14:40.280 fourteen war, about eighty nine percent of those killed in 3:14:40.360 --> 3:14:43.960 the aerial bombings of family homes were unarmed residents, and 3:14:44.120 --> 3:14:48.960 most of them were women and children. Sound familiar. Just 3:14:49.160 --> 3:14:50.800 goes to show you that Israel has been doing this 3:14:50.920 --> 3:14:55.360 for a long time without anything happening because international law 3:14:55.920 --> 3:14:59.920 is bullshit. But really, think about that, eighty nine percent 3:15:00.840 --> 3:15:03.160 of those killed in the aerial bombings in the twenty 3:15:03.240 --> 3:15:08.199 fourteen war sasgenocide were innocent people who were unarmed, most 3:15:08.240 --> 3:15:11.000 of them women and children. The exact same thing is 3:15:11.080 --> 3:15:16.440 happening right now. Some examples of the current indiscriminate bombing 3:15:16.520 --> 3:15:20.480 of residential buildings are the following. On October tenth, Israel 3:15:20.600 --> 3:15:23.440 bombed the Babbel building in Gaza, and this is according 3:15:23.480 --> 3:15:27.040 to the testimony of Belal Abuhatzira, who rescued bodies from 3:15:27.080 --> 3:15:30.200 the ruins that night. Ten people were killed in the 3:15:30.240 --> 3:15:34.360 attack on the building, including three journalists. On October twenty fifth, 3:15:34.640 --> 3:15:38.000 the twelve story Eltage residential building in Gaza City was 3:15:38.080 --> 3:15:41.080 bombed to the ground, killing the families living inside it 3:15:41.200 --> 3:15:45.000 without warning. About one hundred and twenty people were buried 3:15:45.080 --> 3:15:47.800 under the ruins of their apartments. According to the testimonies 3:15:47.800 --> 3:15:51.959 of the residents, yusuf ahmud Shadaf, a resident of Eltaje, 3:15:52.080 --> 3:15:55.119 wrote that thirty seven of his family members who lived 3:15:55.120 --> 3:15:58.000 in the building were killed in the attack. He said, 3:15:58.879 --> 3:16:02.640 my dear father and mother, my beloved wife, my sons, 3:16:02.800 --> 3:16:05.840 and most of my brothers and their families were killed. 3:16:06.640 --> 3:16:09.040 Residents stated that a lot of bombs were dropped that 3:16:09.160 --> 3:16:12.840 resulted in damaging and destroying apartments in nearby buildings as well. 3:16:14.040 --> 3:16:17.040 Six days later after this, on October thirty first, an 3:16:17.080 --> 3:16:21.160 eight story building the Elmu had seen was bombed without warning. 3:16:21.720 --> 3:16:24.840 Between thirty and forty five bodies were reportedly covered from 3:16:24.840 --> 3:16:28.000 the ruins. On the first day. One baby was found 3:16:28.080 --> 3:16:31.000 alive without his parents. I'm not sure if I mentioned 3:16:31.000 --> 3:16:32.800 this in a previous episode, but I think it bears 3:16:32.840 --> 3:16:36.320 repeating that children in Gaza are being admitted to hospitals 3:16:36.360 --> 3:16:39.960 completely alone and with no surviving family members, and this 3:16:40.080 --> 3:16:43.600 is happening so often that hospitals now have an abbreviation 3:16:44.000 --> 3:16:50.160 for these children WCNSF Wounded child with no surviving family. 3:16:51.080 --> 3:16:55.520 The ones that can't speak are marked as unknown. There 3:16:55.560 --> 3:17:00.200 are many children and babies like this. Journalists estimated that 3:17:00.320 --> 3:17:03.400 the attack killed over one hundred and fifty people, and 3:17:03.560 --> 3:17:07.280 many are buried and remain under the rubble. The building 3:17:07.440 --> 3:17:11.200 used to stand in Uzurat refugee camp south of Wadi Gaza, 3:17:11.680 --> 3:17:15.279 in the supposed safe zone which Israel directed the Palestinians 3:17:15.320 --> 3:17:19.160 who fled their homes in northern and central Gaza. It 3:17:19.360 --> 3:17:23.000 therefore served as a temporary shelter for the displaced before 3:17:23.120 --> 3:17:27.119 getting obliterated into smithereens and bombed to the ground, killing 3:17:27.240 --> 3:17:31.720 hundreds of people. According to an investigation by Amnesty International, 3:17:31.879 --> 3:17:36.520 on October ninth, Israel shelled at least three multi story buildings, 3:17:36.680 --> 3:17:39.279 as well as an open flea market on a crowded 3:17:39.320 --> 3:17:42.800 street in the Jebelier refugee camp, killing at least sixty 3:17:42.920 --> 3:17:46.520 nine people. The father of a child who was killed said, 3:17:47.200 --> 3:17:50.000 the bodies were burned. I didn't want to look. I 3:17:50.160 --> 3:17:54.080 was scared of looking at Yamad's face. The bodies were 3:17:54.120 --> 3:17:57.240 scattered on the floor. Everyone was looking for their children 3:17:57.320 --> 3:18:01.120 in these piles. I recognized my son only by his trousers. 3:18:01.720 --> 3:18:04.480 I wanted to bury him immediately, so I carried my 3:18:04.600 --> 3:18:09.880 son and got him out. According to intelligence sources, Habsorah 3:18:10.040 --> 3:18:13.960 aka the Gospel the Ai system we mentioned earlier. This 3:18:14.120 --> 3:18:18.640 AI system generates, among other things, automatic recommendations for attacking 3:18:18.800 --> 3:18:24.440 private residences where people suspected in bold suspected of being 3:18:24.520 --> 3:18:29.240 Hamas or Islamic s Jahat operatives live. Israel then carries 3:18:29.280 --> 3:18:33.000 out large scale assassination operations through the heavy shelling of 3:18:33.080 --> 3:18:37.800 these residential homes. Haabsorah explained one of the sources processes 3:18:37.959 --> 3:18:41.000 enormous amounts of data that quote tens of thousands of 3:18:41.080 --> 3:18:45.240 intelligence officers could not process, as well as recommending bombing 3:18:45.360 --> 3:18:49.359 sites in real time. I wanted to put in bolds 3:18:49.400 --> 3:18:52.959 suspected because that is a crazy thing to do when 3:18:53.000 --> 3:18:54.760 you don't know for sure what the fuck you're doing 3:18:54.800 --> 3:18:57.480 and who the fuck you're killing. Just putting it out 3:18:57.520 --> 3:19:00.840 there that it's at this point can't be any clearer 3:19:00.920 --> 3:19:04.240 that it's not about Hamas. It's about the eradication of 3:19:04.360 --> 3:19:06.800 the Palestinian people, which has been slowly happening for the 3:19:06.800 --> 3:19:10.039 past seventy five years, and now it has accelerated. It's 3:19:10.040 --> 3:19:12.040 not about Hamas because that is a crazy thing to 3:19:12.120 --> 3:19:16.320 do if you're only targeting Hamas. One former intelligence officer 3:19:16.440 --> 3:19:19.320 explained that the Hubsori system enables the army to run 3:19:19.400 --> 3:19:23.320 a quote mass assassination factory, in which the quote emphasis 3:19:23.440 --> 3:19:28.039 is on the quantity and not quality. A human eye 3:19:28.240 --> 3:19:31.160 will quote go over the targets before each attack, but 3:19:31.320 --> 3:19:33.560 it need not spend a lot of time on them. 3:19:34.320 --> 3:19:37.279 In twenty nineteen, the Israeli Army created a new center 3:19:37.360 --> 3:19:41.439 aimed at using AI to accelerate target generation. The Target's 3:19:41.440 --> 3:19:45.240 Administrative Division is a unit that includes hundreds of officers 3:19:45.320 --> 3:19:48.840 and soldiers and is based on AI capabilities. This is 3:19:48.879 --> 3:19:52.680 according to the former IOF Chief of Staff, Aviv Coochavi, 3:19:53.160 --> 3:19:55.760 and he gave an in depth interview about this earlier 3:19:55.840 --> 3:19:59.520 this year. He said, this is a machine that, with 3:19:59.640 --> 3:20:03.000 the help AI, processes a lot of data better and 3:20:03.120 --> 3:20:07.720 faster than any human and translates it into targets for attack. 3:20:08.480 --> 3:20:11.440 The result was that an operation Guardian of the Walls 3:20:11.480 --> 3:20:14.760 in twenty twenty one, from the moment this machine was activated, 3:20:14.879 --> 3:20:18.400 it generated one hundred new targets every day. You see 3:20:18.920 --> 3:20:21.240 in the past there were times in Gaza when we 3:20:21.280 --> 3:20:25.640 would create fifty targets per year, and here the machine 3:20:25.720 --> 3:20:29.200 produced one hundred targets in one day. One of the 3:20:29.280 --> 3:20:32.040 sources of the investigation by plus nine to seventy two 3:20:32.120 --> 3:20:36.200 magazine said, we prepare the targets automatically and work according 3:20:36.280 --> 3:20:39.680 to a checklist. This source also worked in the new 3:20:39.800 --> 3:20:44.440 target's administrative division. They said, it really is like a factory. 3:20:44.959 --> 3:20:47.560 We work quickly and there is no time to delve 3:20:47.640 --> 3:20:50.520 deep into the target. The view is that we are 3:20:50.640 --> 3:20:53.879 judged according to how many targets we managed to generate. 3:20:54.600 --> 3:20:57.440 A senior military official in charge of the target bank 3:20:57.640 --> 3:21:00.680 told Jerusalem Post earlier this year that thanks to the 3:21:00.800 --> 3:21:03.960 army's AI systems, for the first time, the military can 3:21:04.040 --> 3:21:07.199 generate new targets at a faster rate than it attacks. 3:21:08.000 --> 3:21:10.880 One more time for emphasis, for the first time ever, 3:21:11.240 --> 3:21:15.680 thanks to AI systems, the military generates new targets faster 3:21:15.920 --> 3:21:19.680 than it can attack them. Another source said the drive 3:21:19.800 --> 3:21:23.760 to automatically generate large numbers of targets is a realization 3:21:24.360 --> 3:21:28.440 of the Dahia doctrine. The Dahia doctrine, as mentioned earlier, 3:21:28.800 --> 3:21:32.320 is when Israel uses this proportionate and overwhelming force when 3:21:32.400 --> 3:21:37.000 targeting civilian and government infrastructure in order to establish deterrence 3:21:37.360 --> 3:21:41.440 and make the palasinging people cower and fear and admit 3:21:41.520 --> 3:21:46.680 defeat essentially, and so this AI system is really helping 3:21:47.000 --> 3:21:51.520 achieve this Dahia doctrine. In the process. Automated systems like 3:21:51.600 --> 3:21:55.439 HPSURA have thus greatly facilitated the work of Israeli intelligence 3:21:55.480 --> 3:22:01.040 officers and making decisions during military operations, including calculating potential casualties. 3:22:01.800 --> 3:22:05.160 Five different sources confirmed that the number of civilians who 3:22:05.200 --> 3:22:08.640 may be killed in attacks on private residences is known 3:22:08.800 --> 3:22:12.520 in advance to Israeli intelligence and appears clearly in the 3:22:12.600 --> 3:22:17.680 target file under the category quote collateral damage. According to 3:22:17.760 --> 3:22:21.120 these sources, there are degrees of collateral damage according to 3:22:21.200 --> 3:22:24.000 which the army determines whether it is possible to attack 3:22:24.040 --> 3:22:27.959 a target inside of private residence. One of the sources said, 3:22:28.200 --> 3:22:32.600 when the general directive becomes quote collateral damage five, that 3:22:32.760 --> 3:22:35.600 means we are authorized to strike all targets that will 3:22:35.720 --> 3:22:39.320 kill five or less civilians. We can act on all 3:22:39.400 --> 3:22:43.280 target files that are five or less. A security official 3:22:43.280 --> 3:22:47.880 who participated in attacking targets during previous operations said, in 3:22:48.000 --> 3:22:50.600 the past, we did not regularly mark the homes of 3:22:50.720 --> 3:22:54.000 junior Hamas members for bombing. In my time, if the 3:22:54.080 --> 3:22:57.000 house I was working on was marked collateral damage five, 3:22:57.520 --> 3:23:00.840 it would not always be approved for attack. Such approval, 3:23:00.959 --> 3:23:04.160 he said, would only be received if a senior Hammas 3:23:04.240 --> 3:23:07.320 commander was known to be living in the home. To 3:23:07.440 --> 3:23:10.720 my understanding, today they can mark all the houses of 3:23:10.800 --> 3:23:15.200 any Hammas military operative, regardless of rank or confirmation of membership. 3:23:15.879 --> 3:23:19.200 The source added that is a lot of houses. Hamas 3:23:19.280 --> 3:23:22.520 members who don't really matter for anything live in homes 3:23:22.680 --> 3:23:26.040 all across Gaza, so they mark the home and bomb 3:23:26.160 --> 3:23:30.120 the house and kill everyone there. On October twenty second, 3:23:30.240 --> 3:23:33.400 the Israeli Air Force bombed the home of Palestinian journalist 3:23:33.520 --> 3:23:36.440 Ahmad al Nahouch in the city of Der El Badach. 3:23:37.280 --> 3:23:40.720 The strike on October twenty second collapsed blocks of concrete 3:23:40.800 --> 3:23:45.800 onto Ahmed's entire family, killing his father, brothers, sisters, and 3:23:45.959 --> 3:23:50.080 all of their children, including babies. Only his twelve year 3:23:50.120 --> 3:23:54.080 old niece, Manak survived and remained in critical condition, her 3:23:54.160 --> 3:23:58.280 body covered in burns. A few days later, Malak died. 3:23:59.160 --> 3:24:02.360 Twenty one members of Ahmed's family were killed in total, 3:24:02.680 --> 3:24:07.160 buried under their home. None of them were militants. The 3:24:07.320 --> 3:24:10.920 youngest was two years old, the oldest his father, was 3:24:11.000 --> 3:24:15.080 seventy five. Ahmed, who was now currently living in the UK, 3:24:16.120 --> 3:24:21.800 is alone without his entire family. This part particularly gutted me. 3:24:22.600 --> 3:24:27.640 But Ahmed's family WhatsApp group the group text thread that 3:24:27.720 --> 3:24:31.080 he had with his family. It was titled better Together. 3:24:32.280 --> 3:24:35.000 The last message that appears in this group was sent 3:24:35.120 --> 3:24:37.800 by him a little after midnight on the night that 3:24:37.840 --> 3:24:42.280 he lost his family. He sent this message someone let 3:24:42.360 --> 3:24:46.360 me know that everything is fine. No one answered. He 3:24:46.480 --> 3:24:49.119 fell asleep and woke up in a panic at four am, 3:24:49.560 --> 3:24:53.080 drenched and swept, and he checked his phone again nothing, 3:24:53.800 --> 3:24:56.200 and then he received a message from a friend with 3:24:56.320 --> 3:25:01.360 the terrible news. Unfortunately Ahmed's. The case is very common 3:25:01.400 --> 3:25:05.040 in Gaza these days. In interviews to the press, heads 3:25:05.080 --> 3:25:09.120 of Gaza hospitals have been echoing the same description. Families 3:25:09.320 --> 3:25:13.920 enter hospitals as a succession of corpses. A child, followed 3:25:14.000 --> 3:25:17.920 by his father, followed by his grandfather. The bodies are 3:25:17.959 --> 3:25:21.480 all covered in dirt and blood. The report does not 3:25:21.640 --> 3:25:24.480 have data regarding the number of military operatives who were 3:25:24.560 --> 3:25:27.800 indeed killed or wounded in aerial strikes on private residences 3:25:27.879 --> 3:25:31.160 in the current genocide, but there is ample evidence that 3:25:31.600 --> 3:25:35.760 in many, many cases, if not most, vast majority of 3:25:36.760 --> 3:25:39.760 none of the people killed or military or political operatives 3:25:39.879 --> 3:25:44.360 belonging to Hamas or Islamic Jihad, the bombing of family 3:25:44.480 --> 3:25:49.600 homes where Hamas and Islamic Jihad operatives supposedly live. It 3:25:49.800 --> 3:25:53.600 likely became a more concerted IOF policy during Operation Protective 3:25:53.680 --> 3:25:56.920 Edge in twenty fourteen, and this is when Israel began 3:25:57.040 --> 3:26:01.000 to systematically strike family homes from the air. Human rights 3:26:01.080 --> 3:26:05.240 groups like Betstellem collected testimonies from Palestinians who survived these attacks. 3:26:05.840 --> 3:26:09.879 The survivors said the homes collapsed in on themselves, glass 3:26:10.000 --> 3:26:13.440 shards cut through the bodies of those inside, the debris 3:26:13.520 --> 3:26:17.640 smelled of blood, and people were buried alive. A UN 3:26:17.720 --> 3:26:21.320 report defined this in twenty fifteen as both a potential 3:26:21.400 --> 3:26:24.840 war crime and a new pattern of action that led 3:26:24.879 --> 3:26:28.960 to the death of entire families. And we're seeing this 3:26:29.080 --> 3:26:34.280 pattern repeat in real time right now. In twenty fourteen, 3:26:34.640 --> 3:26:37.680 ninety three babies were killed as a result of Israeli 3:26:37.760 --> 3:26:42.000 bombings on family homes, of which thirteen were under one 3:26:42.120 --> 3:26:46.240 year old. As of a month ago, two hundred and 3:26:46.280 --> 3:26:50.440 eighty six babies aged one year under were identified as 3:26:50.520 --> 3:26:54.000 having been killed in Gaza. And this is according to 3:26:54.120 --> 3:26:57.320 a detailed idealist with the ages of victims published by 3:26:57.360 --> 3:27:00.760 the Gaza Ministry of Health on October twenty six. This 3:27:01.000 --> 3:27:05.360 number has likely doubled and tripled, if not more, at 3:27:05.400 --> 3:27:09.960 this point. So in many cases, especially during the current 3:27:10.000 --> 3:27:13.840 attacks on Gaza, the Israeli Army carries out attacks that 3:27:14.000 --> 3:27:17.080 strike private residences even when there is no known or 3:27:17.240 --> 3:27:22.000 clear military target. For example, according to the Committee to 3:27:22.080 --> 3:27:26.720 Protect Journalists, by November twenty ninth, Israel had killed fifty 3:27:26.840 --> 3:27:30.520 Palestinian journalists in Gaza, some of them in their homes 3:27:30.680 --> 3:27:34.680 with their families. The murdering of these journalists, again, may 3:27:34.720 --> 3:27:37.840 I remind you, is very deliberate as far as silencing 3:27:37.920 --> 3:27:41.000 Palestine and people in Gaza from sharing the truth about 3:27:41.000 --> 3:27:44.440 what's going on. Rosti Charage is one of these journalists 3:27:44.440 --> 3:27:47.359 who was killed, who was thirty one, and a journalist 3:27:47.440 --> 3:27:49.920 in Gaza who was born in Britain who founded a 3:27:50.040 --> 3:27:54.199 media outlet in Gaza called Almidia. On October twenty second, 3:27:54.280 --> 3:27:57.400 an Israeli bomb struck his parents' house where he was sleeping, 3:27:57.840 --> 3:28:03.000 killing him. There's also journalists Salam Memma who similarly died 3:28:03.080 --> 3:28:05.520 under the ruins of her home after it was bombed, 3:28:06.480 --> 3:28:10.480 of her three young children. Hadi seven died while sham 3:28:11.200 --> 3:28:14.199 Aged three has not been yet found. Under the rebel, 3:28:15.120 --> 3:28:19.279 two other journalists, Dua Shutaff and Sema Makimad were killed 3:28:19.400 --> 3:28:23.600 together with their children in their homes. As of this recording, 3:28:24.120 --> 3:28:28.920 Israel has killed over sixty journalists since October seventh. That's 3:28:28.959 --> 3:28:32.720 going to be the episode for today because that was 3:28:32.720 --> 3:28:36.800 a lot, and I hope it was helpful. This investigative 3:28:36.840 --> 3:28:40.120 report is extremely important, especially now that we're seeing these 3:28:40.200 --> 3:28:44.240 Israeli officials and officers shamelessly saying that they're trying their 3:28:44.280 --> 3:28:48.039 best to avoid civilian casualties, when here we have proof 3:28:48.600 --> 3:28:51.240 that that is in fact a lie. So I want 3:28:51.280 --> 3:28:56.600 to do this episode to counteract the argument that this 3:28:56.760 --> 3:29:02.360 is about Hamas. It's not about Hamas, isn't Nothing can 3:29:02.560 --> 3:29:08.760 justify this amount of murder and death of people, point blank. 3:29:09.520 --> 3:29:16.600 Absolutely nothing justifies a genocide. Nothing. So I hope you 3:29:16.640 --> 3:29:20.160 guys keep learning about Palestine and raising awareness about the 3:29:20.200 --> 3:29:24.920 genocide and staying active in your communities and following Palestinian 3:29:25.000 --> 3:29:28.200 journalists that are still alive and risking their lives to 3:29:28.240 --> 3:29:32.560 share information. Motaz Azaiza is one of these journalists that 3:29:33.280 --> 3:29:37.560 is consistently posting on his stories There's also Bisan who 3:29:38.080 --> 3:29:42.600 is at Wizard Underscore Bisan one on Instagram. She's been 3:29:42.920 --> 3:29:48.200 an incredible source and really just being so vulnerable and 3:29:48.280 --> 3:29:51.200 sharing exactly what's going on. And I have no idea, 3:29:52.120 --> 3:29:54.480 and I hope I never do. How hard it is 3:29:54.800 --> 3:29:58.760 to not have time for grief. Palestinians do not have 3:29:58.920 --> 3:30:02.600 time to grieve their day. They're too busy photographing them 3:30:02.640 --> 3:30:05.760 and videoing them, so the world will even believe that 3:30:05.920 --> 3:30:09.360 they're going through a genocide. Something I wanted to bring 3:30:09.480 --> 3:30:12.640 up is that these journalists in Gaza are the ones 3:30:12.720 --> 3:30:17.120 that are left. They've been posting these heartbreaking last messages 3:30:17.320 --> 3:30:21.920 on social media. Be SAand posted on December second, I 3:30:22.040 --> 3:30:24.560 no longer have any hope of survival like I had 3:30:24.640 --> 3:30:27.199 at the beginning of this genocide, and I am certain 3:30:27.280 --> 3:30:29.200 that I will die in the next few weeks or 3:30:29.240 --> 3:30:32.800 maybe days. My message to the world, you are not 3:30:32.959 --> 3:30:36.199 innocent of what is happening to us. You, as governments 3:30:36.360 --> 3:30:40.520 or peoples that support Israel's annihilation of my people, we 3:30:40.600 --> 3:30:44.320 will not forgive you. Humanity will not forgive you. Even 3:30:44.440 --> 3:30:49.320 if we die. The history will never forget Motaz, also 3:30:49.440 --> 3:30:53.200 on December second, said it's about life or death. Now 3:30:54.000 --> 3:30:57.400 I did what I could. We are surrounded by Israeli tanks. 3:30:57.840 --> 3:31:01.280 Gaza's strip is getting divided into three parts, the North 3:31:01.360 --> 3:31:03.800 of Gaza, the Middle area and De La Baah and 3:31:03.920 --> 3:31:08.320 Han Yunis and the Dafa. The movement is becoming nearly impossible, 3:31:08.800 --> 3:31:11.800 and of course there is no safe place and people 3:31:12.080 --> 3:31:15.040 just don't know where to go. It is hard to 3:31:15.160 --> 3:31:17.600 keep up and watch, but it's truly the least you 3:31:17.680 --> 3:31:22.640 can do. We are so privileged in one me making 3:31:22.680 --> 3:31:26.120 a podcast and you listening to it, So the very 3:31:26.240 --> 3:31:28.560 least we can do is use our privilege to help 3:31:28.680 --> 3:31:32.280 those in need and be the mouthpiece that they so 3:31:32.480 --> 3:31:36.720 desperately want and are begging for, and not letting their 3:31:36.760 --> 3:31:39.840 stories be buried under the rubble with them just because 3:31:39.959 --> 3:31:43.880 Israel is trying to cover it up. So with that, 3:31:44.640 --> 3:32:04.880 I'll see you next time. Hello, This is Shreen and 3:32:04.959 --> 3:32:07.440 I'm joined by James. There's no preamble here, We're just 3:32:07.520 --> 3:32:09.240 gonna introduce ourselves. 3:32:10.240 --> 3:32:12.680 Yeah, yeah, we know fucking around here, serious business. 3:32:13.160 --> 3:32:16.080 I actually like every time I start recording, I genuinely 3:32:16.120 --> 3:32:19.160 don't know how to start a podcast. I don't know 3:32:19.240 --> 3:32:21.360 any like at any time this happens, I feel like 3:32:21.480 --> 3:32:22.760 I am doing it for the first time. 3:32:24.040 --> 3:32:24.280 Me too. 3:32:24.600 --> 3:32:26.080 We could just do a thing like robot what we 3:32:26.280 --> 3:32:28.280 just kind of making gay? 3:32:29.720 --> 3:32:32.480 Yeah exactly. Yeah, maybe next time I'll have to practice 3:32:32.520 --> 3:32:35.480 that in the mirror a few times. But thank you 3:32:35.560 --> 3:32:38.560 for joining me today. Essentially, today we're going to talk 3:32:38.560 --> 3:32:43.160 about the rise in Islamophobia and how the demonization and 3:32:43.240 --> 3:32:47.879 dehumanization of Muslims and Arabs leads people to be scared 3:32:47.959 --> 3:32:52.640 of something like a scarf. The kaffeia is the black 3:32:52.720 --> 3:32:55.880 and white checkered scarf you might have seen that's worn 3:32:55.920 --> 3:32:59.800 by Palestinians and their supporters, and it's really symbolic and 3:33:00.040 --> 3:33:03.720 corn to Palestinians, and especially after those three students in 3:33:03.840 --> 3:33:06.800 Vermont were targeted because of the kafia, I thought it 3:33:06.959 --> 3:33:09.959 was worth discussing what it is. If you hear noise 3:33:09.959 --> 3:33:12.280 in the background, that is my cat and I apologize. 3:33:12.360 --> 3:33:13.680 That's just texture for POD. 3:33:14.160 --> 3:33:16.760 So texture for pod, you know, that's what we give 3:33:16.840 --> 3:33:17.040 you it. 3:33:17.640 --> 3:33:22.080 Yes, but yeah, we're going to talk about kafa, where 3:33:22.120 --> 3:33:24.280 it comes from, what it means, why people do it. 3:33:26.160 --> 3:33:28.600 The time that United Airlines and Rachel Ray joined the 3:33:28.680 --> 3:33:33.039 forces of International jihad. It's going to be an interesting podcast. 3:33:33.440 --> 3:33:35.200 Yeah, I didn't know about that part, so I'm excited 3:33:35.240 --> 3:33:36.040 for you to tell me about it. 3:33:36.879 --> 3:33:37.080 Yeah. 3:33:37.360 --> 3:33:41.160 I'm excited to talk about United Airlines like great, long 3:33:41.240 --> 3:33:42.840 time supported to the Palestinian course. 3:33:44.800 --> 3:33:46.920 So first, before we start to talk about the Kaffia, 3:33:46.959 --> 3:33:51.160 I want to talk about this uptick in anti Muslim, 3:33:51.200 --> 3:33:54.160 anti Arab, anti Palestinian hate, because we've been seeing a 3:33:54.200 --> 3:33:57.520 lot of supporters of Palestine lose their jobs. An agent 3:33:57.560 --> 3:34:01.440 in CIA, a lawyer in England, numerous journalists and news anchors. 3:34:01.959 --> 3:34:04.360 And this is an element of solomophobia that I don't 3:34:04.360 --> 3:34:09.360 think we take seriously enough, because liking or sharing a 3:34:09.440 --> 3:34:13.160 social media post denouncing genocide should only be seen as that, 3:34:13.520 --> 3:34:16.600 just a post denouncing genocide. I think the meanings that 3:34:16.680 --> 3:34:21.760 people push onto these things is really dangerous, and discussions 3:34:21.959 --> 3:34:24.360 and meetings on the issue have been barred. People who 3:34:24.440 --> 3:34:27.320 express any kind of sympathy for Palestine, even in old 3:34:27.400 --> 3:34:30.160 social media posts, have been dismissed from their job. We're 3:34:30.160 --> 3:34:33.119 seeing counter campaigns by pro Israel groups in the US 3:34:33.240 --> 3:34:35.960 trying to globally shut down the voices of pro Palestinian 3:34:36.040 --> 3:34:41.400 activists and to criminalize elements of Palestinian identity itself, for example, 3:34:41.600 --> 3:34:45.080 like displaying the Palestinian flag or wearing the Caffea headdress 3:34:45.120 --> 3:34:48.320 slash scarf. And this week, I think it's worth mentioning 3:34:48.400 --> 3:34:52.480 that the House passed Resolution eight ninety four, which equates 3:34:52.560 --> 3:34:57.680 criticizing Israel with being anti Semitic. Ninety five Democrats helped 3:34:57.720 --> 3:35:01.520 the House GOP pass this extremely ingenuous and dangerous resolution, 3:35:02.560 --> 3:35:06.080 and in their words, it's against anti Semitism, but it 3:35:06.200 --> 3:35:09.040 is extremely dangerous for the Jewish community in and of 3:35:09.120 --> 3:35:14.560 itself because condemning any criticism of the Israeli state should 3:35:14.600 --> 3:35:16.760 only be taken for that. That's the thing that I understand. 3:35:16.760 --> 3:35:18.320 People people project onto things. 3:35:18.840 --> 3:35:22.199 Yeah, anti signism. I wanted to like, when I'm studying 3:35:22.200 --> 3:35:24.840 at UCSD, one of the professors who I was very 3:35:24.879 --> 3:35:28.040 fond of, who was very informative from academic opinions and 3:35:28.080 --> 3:35:30.320 the way I teach, especially with someone called Debrah Hurtz, 3:35:30.320 --> 3:35:33.440 who's head of the Jewish Studies Department at UCSD. She 3:35:33.640 --> 3:35:36.680 is one of dozens, it's not maybe maybe hundreds of 3:35:36.720 --> 3:35:41.040 academics who signed something called the Jerusalem Declaration, which, like 3:35:41.720 --> 3:35:44.160 I believe most of them are involved in Jewish studies 3:35:44.320 --> 3:35:45.320 or Holocaust studies. 3:35:45.560 --> 3:35:47.160 It's throughout Palatini Middleat studies. 3:35:46.959 --> 3:35:49.760 Something like that, right, And like, I think it's useful 3:35:49.800 --> 3:35:53.320 to have some clarity around these topics because, like, right now, 3:35:53.360 --> 3:35:56.680 there are people who gave zero fucks about antisemitism when 3:35:56.720 --> 3:36:01.520 there were literal mobs carrying tortures through the streets screaming 3:36:01.560 --> 3:36:05.119 about Jewish people, right when when some of the people 3:36:06.120 --> 3:36:08.200 listening to this podcast, and people are on this podcast 3:36:08.280 --> 3:36:10.520 made every effort to call out what it was, when 3:36:11.000 --> 3:36:14.280 large numbers of people in Congress didn't give a fuck, 3:36:14.480 --> 3:36:18.360 weren't ready to call like literal genocidal fascism, genocidal fascism 3:36:18.800 --> 3:36:21.240 in case it got some votes or money. Now now 3:36:21.280 --> 3:36:23.920 they're ready to. Now they're ready to go hard as 3:36:24.000 --> 3:36:28.240 fuck against Palestinian people. Which it does seem like there's 3:36:28.240 --> 3:36:29.920 a whole lot of people in Congress who weren't given 3:36:29.959 --> 3:36:32.280 a cudgel to beat Muslim people. Won't think about it 3:36:32.320 --> 3:36:35.120 for more than five seconds, but I do want to. 3:36:35.120 --> 3:36:38.199 I just want to read this part from the Jeruisdom Declaration, 3:36:38.320 --> 3:36:39.800 the Jeruisom Declaration dot org. 3:36:39.879 --> 3:36:41.119 You can find yourself. 3:36:41.400 --> 3:36:45.360 Criticizing or opposing Zionism as the form of nationalism, or 3:36:45.520 --> 3:36:48.720 arguing for a variety of constitutional arrangements for Jewish or 3:36:48.760 --> 3:36:51.760 Palestinian people in the area between the Jordan River and 3:36:51.800 --> 3:36:54.360 the Mediterranean. That's listed under things which are not on 3:36:54.440 --> 3:36:57.000 the face of anti semitic. Right, it goes on, it 3:36:57.160 --> 3:36:59.800 is not anti semitic to support arrangement so called full 3:36:59.840 --> 3:37:02.360 of quality to all inhabitants between the river and the sea, 3:37:02.680 --> 3:37:05.240 whether in two states are by national state, a unitary 3:37:05.320 --> 3:37:09.320 democratic state, a federal state, or in whatever form. I 3:37:09.360 --> 3:37:12.280 think that's pretty clear, right, Like obviously the variety of 3:37:12.360 --> 3:37:16.880 options there, all of which are neither genocidal nor in 3:37:16.959 --> 3:37:19.560 the face of it anti semitic. It's just like this 3:37:19.680 --> 3:37:23.039 is just a canard, like I saw Scott Peters, who 3:37:23.160 --> 3:37:26.520 is the congress person for Poway. Scott Peters, I think 3:37:26.560 --> 3:37:28.880 it's pretty uncontroversial to say it's a giant piece of shit. 3:37:29.360 --> 3:37:31.520 Scott Peters is the reason why my incidence still costs 3:37:31.560 --> 3:37:34.800 lots of money. Fuck Scott Peters. But he was in 3:37:34.879 --> 3:37:37.960 this case accusing UCSD students of being anti Semitic for 3:37:38.080 --> 3:37:42.520 passing a BDS resolution. Another thing that Jewishalem Declaration which 3:37:42.560 --> 3:37:44.960 again was signed by Deborah Hurtz, the head of Jewish 3:37:44.959 --> 3:37:49.120 Studies at UCSD, specifically calls out as not being on 3:37:49.160 --> 3:37:52.039 the face of anti Semitic right, like these people aren't 3:37:52.720 --> 3:37:57.360 in some cases listening to what Jewish Studies scholars are saying, 3:37:57.800 --> 3:38:01.879 And I think we need to be careful when obviously 3:38:02.480 --> 3:38:05.560 all of us will call it anti semitism right. I've 3:38:05.640 --> 3:38:09.360 been personally at the forefront of calling anti semitism in 3:38:09.360 --> 3:38:11.959 the law enforcement apparatus in San Diego when our DA 3:38:12.959 --> 3:38:16.600 used anti Semitic tropes in her twenty eighteen campaign that 3:38:16.720 --> 3:38:20.000 seems to have been memory hold. But because this I 3:38:20.080 --> 3:38:23.360 think is often simply being weaponized as another way to 3:38:23.360 --> 3:38:29.640 suppress protest movements and specifically to justify Islamophobia, which we 3:38:29.720 --> 3:38:32.800 should all stand against, like regardless of where we stand 3:38:32.840 --> 3:38:37.600 on two states, one state, whatever, Like I think if 3:38:38.480 --> 3:38:40.840 we can see people using something to the cudgel against 3:38:40.840 --> 3:38:43.400 a group of people who have been victimized by this 3:38:43.520 --> 3:38:46.480 state for a very long time, and they're continuing to 3:38:46.560 --> 3:38:49.680 do it like this shit got us twenty years of war, 3:38:50.400 --> 3:38:53.840 fucking tens of thousands of lives right ruined or last, 3:38:54.240 --> 3:38:57.080 and we're going right back to it and like, if 3:38:57.080 --> 3:38:58.760 you can't see why it's a problem, I don't know 3:38:58.800 --> 3:38:59.920 if I have much more to say. 3:39:01.160 --> 3:39:02.039 Yeah, it's not great. 3:39:02.720 --> 3:39:06.240 Yeah, I think that's a big reason why I wanted 3:39:06.240 --> 3:39:10.560 to bring up the resolution, because when you have pundits 3:39:10.600 --> 3:39:13.520 and politicians pointing at a pro Palestinian protest and being like, 3:39:13.640 --> 3:39:17.760 this is pro Hamas, and when the resolution specifically calls 3:39:17.800 --> 3:39:20.720 out the from the River to the Sea chant, which 3:39:21.040 --> 3:39:23.280 in theory should be protected by the First Amendment, but 3:39:23.879 --> 3:39:27.800 that's not real. That's what really troubles me, because it's 3:39:28.200 --> 3:39:32.760 vilifying the entire idea of supporting Palestine, and that includes 3:39:32.920 --> 3:39:37.920 any kind of display of supporting Palestine. And you're right, 3:39:38.160 --> 3:39:42.160 it almost cheapens the meaning of anti Semitism because it 3:39:42.280 --> 3:39:46.320 almost makes us overlook true danger to the Jewish people. 3:39:46.360 --> 3:39:49.000 And it also completely raises the identity of anti Zionist 3:39:49.080 --> 3:39:53.080 Jewish people, which makes up a big part of the 3:39:53.160 --> 3:39:55.520 Jewish community in my opinion, even though they want to 3:39:55.680 --> 3:39:59.279 make it seem like they're the minority, but the majority 3:39:59.320 --> 3:40:03.640 of Dinas country are actually even Jewish, So Zionism is yeah, 3:40:03.800 --> 3:40:06.680 equated to Jewishness in the slightest I. 3:40:06.720 --> 3:40:09.320 Didn't think like we need to see to Congress a 3:40:09.400 --> 3:40:11.200 group of people who, like I said, who have been 3:40:12.240 --> 3:40:15.640 justifying or in the Middle East for twenty years when 3:40:15.720 --> 3:40:19.040 it comes to defining what bigotry is, right, Like, we 3:40:19.879 --> 3:40:22.960 a group of people who are like ruining over a 3:40:23.000 --> 3:40:24.960 country that's built on stolen land by stolen people, Like, 3:40:25.040 --> 3:40:26.480 we don't have to listen to them. They don't get 3:40:26.480 --> 3:40:28.440 to tell us what it is and it's not these things, 3:40:28.560 --> 3:40:31.120 and like, yeah, you fucking do not get to talk 3:40:31.240 --> 3:40:35.560 about anti semitism when you said shit about Charlottesville, right, Like, 3:40:36.200 --> 3:40:39.000 it's clearly two phased, it's bullshit, and it's just a 3:40:39.080 --> 3:40:41.400 cultural with which to be a protest movement that they 3:40:41.480 --> 3:40:45.800 see as woke or leftist or comprised of Muslims who 3:40:45.840 --> 3:40:49.879 they think are less than and like it's obviously despicable 3:40:49.920 --> 3:40:52.080 the people who did say shit about Charlottesville will make 3:40:52.080 --> 3:40:54.360 common cause with these people who are very clearly doing 3:40:54.400 --> 3:40:58.640 this in bad faith. Yeah, it's we can oppose anti Semitism, 3:40:58.680 --> 3:41:01.279 and we should, and we can oppose Dlamophobia and we should. 3:41:01.360 --> 3:41:03.680 But opposing them goes hand in hand in my opinion, 3:41:03.800 --> 3:41:07.880 because we are essentially the same people Like I don't 3:41:07.959 --> 3:41:11.160 see a big separation. Obviously the hate is different, but 3:41:11.280 --> 3:41:15.080 I think fighting both Islamophobia and anti Semitism it goes 3:41:15.120 --> 3:41:15.680 hand in hand. 3:41:16.240 --> 3:41:19.200 Yeah, with that, we should mention also that like consistently 3:41:19.240 --> 3:41:21.560 missing an American discourse to seek sick people. 3:41:21.840 --> 3:41:23.560 There's something I want to get into in a little bit. 3:41:23.959 --> 3:41:25.920 I want to get into how there's a huge rise 3:41:26.000 --> 3:41:29.840 in Islamophobic attacks and specifically there was a Sikh person 3:41:29.879 --> 3:41:33.400 who was attacked because he was presumed to be Muslim. 3:41:33.920 --> 3:41:39.840 Because the anti Arab dehumanizing language that we hear in 3:41:39.959 --> 3:41:43.840 the media, it emboldens like hateful terrorists to commit hate 3:41:43.920 --> 3:41:46.600 crimes against Arab Muslim people or people who are just 3:41:46.720 --> 3:41:49.600 perceived to be Arab and Muslim. And I remember this 3:41:49.879 --> 3:41:53.320 the tweet that Biden tweeted a couple of weeks ago 3:41:53.520 --> 3:41:55.400 when he was trying to cover his ass and be like, 3:41:55.480 --> 3:41:59.800 we hate Slamophobia too, but he said people perceied to 3:41:59.840 --> 3:42:03.200 be Muslim and wrongfully, no, wrongfully perceived to be Muslim 3:42:03.320 --> 3:42:07.040 was the wording, as if it was like a bad 3:42:07.120 --> 3:42:09.960 thing to be perceived Muslim. So you do you ever 3:42:10.080 --> 3:42:11.240 that tweet at all? 3:42:11.680 --> 3:42:12.480 Yeah? I didn't know. 3:42:12.560 --> 3:42:14.840 I try not to look at President Biden's sweets, because 3:42:14.840 --> 3:42:16.440 it's really a source of joy in my life. 3:42:16.600 --> 3:42:17.800 But that's great. 3:42:18.280 --> 3:42:20.960 Look the dude sitting here while little children and pregnant 3:42:21.040 --> 3:42:23.640 ladies and old folks are sleeping out in the dirt 3:42:23.680 --> 3:42:24.960 in the board of a third nine in a row, 3:42:25.040 --> 3:42:27.240 like I give a fuck about what he thinks. He again, right, 3:42:27.320 --> 3:42:29.960 that guy doesn't get to legislate morality for me because 3:42:30.000 --> 3:42:33.600 he has none. And word, I simply don't give a 3:42:33.640 --> 3:42:34.440 fuck what he says. 3:42:34.840 --> 3:42:38.920 Word. I like that approach. I like that approach. But 3:42:40.040 --> 3:42:43.199 Muslims and Arabs did pay attention to that word wrongfully, 3:42:43.280 --> 3:42:46.240 and it just kind of reinforced the sentiment in the 3:42:46.360 --> 3:42:49.120 country when it comes to Arab and Muslim people or 3:42:49.200 --> 3:42:51.920 those perceived to be Arab and Muslim and The Council 3:42:52.040 --> 3:42:56.000 on American Islamic Relations said it received seven hundred and 3:42:56.080 --> 3:42:59.760 seventy four requests for help and reports of bias incidents 3:42:59.760 --> 3:43:03.080 from Muslims in the US between the sixteen days of 3:43:03.240 --> 3:43:06.400 October seventh to October twenty fourth, which is a one 3:43:06.520 --> 3:43:10.400 hundred and eighty two percent jump from any given sixteen 3:43:10.480 --> 3:43:14.120 days stretch last year. Because on average of twenty twenty two, 3:43:14.520 --> 3:43:18.320 that number was two hundred and seventy four complaints, and 3:43:19.000 --> 3:43:22.760 Corey Saylor, the research and advocacy director, said, we're working 3:43:22.879 --> 3:43:26.080 seven days a week around the clock fielding incoming complaints. 3:43:26.440 --> 3:43:28.959 I have only ever seen that twice in my career, 3:43:29.440 --> 3:43:32.200 right after nine to eleven and in December twenty fifteen, 3:43:32.680 --> 3:43:35.760 after that announcement by Trump of his plan to ban 3:43:35.920 --> 3:43:37.680 Muslims from the country. 3:43:38.400 --> 3:43:41.720 Oh yeah, yeah, that was a good time in history. 3:43:42.000 --> 3:43:44.600 Yeah, that the attacks and sek people are like a 3:43:44.720 --> 3:43:50.000 classic post nine to eleven, absolute like islamophobic mania. Yeah, right, 3:43:50.560 --> 3:43:54.960 Like it's something that like I'm consistently afraid of now, 3:43:55.120 --> 3:43:56.920 right when I'm at the border, when there are Muslim 3:43:56.959 --> 3:44:01.240 people there every day, and there is people there every day, 3:44:01.600 --> 3:44:04.440 and there are also Jewish people there, right because literally 3:44:04.520 --> 3:44:07.000 someone yesterday we were trying to get some candles for 3:44:07.040 --> 3:44:10.560 a hannaka minora, Right, But it doesn't matter. People who 3:44:10.600 --> 3:44:13.000 are hateful have access to hurt those people. And that's 3:44:13.000 --> 3:44:17.920 something I've become extremely concerned with recently, like and with 3:44:18.280 --> 3:44:22.440 half of Congress or more whipping up this kind of hysteria, right, 3:44:22.480 --> 3:44:26.520 which obviously you know, like George W. Bush benefited very 3:44:26.560 --> 3:44:29.880 greatly from although if you look at the stuff George W. 3:44:30.000 --> 3:44:32.000 Bush says, and this is not like yas George W. 3:44:32.200 --> 3:44:36.000 Bush like he is outflanked large number of the Democrat 3:44:36.080 --> 3:44:38.480 Party and his to the left in his acceptance, like 3:44:39.000 --> 3:44:43.000 Islam is a fabric of America's speech, Like it's wild 3:44:43.040 --> 3:44:46.320 how far we've come in a bad direction. But San, 3:44:46.520 --> 3:44:48.640 do you know what else is leading our listeners in 3:44:48.680 --> 3:44:49.320 a bad direction? 3:44:50.640 --> 3:44:52.920 Please exactly more? 3:44:53.760 --> 3:44:57.400 Yeah, it's this advert for Ronald Reagan memorabilia. Hopefully we 3:44:57.480 --> 3:45:00.640 get a Kissinger one soon. In Challa, we will get 3:45:00.640 --> 3:45:04.160 a Henry kissingcher gold coin advert in this episode. 3:45:05.760 --> 3:45:08.960 We're back. I think it's worth mentioning some incidents that 3:45:09.000 --> 3:45:12.600 have happened when it comes to harassment and physical violence 3:45:12.680 --> 3:45:16.640 against Muslims and Arabs. On October fifteenth, he probably heard 3:45:16.720 --> 3:45:18.440 that a six year old was stabbed to death with 3:45:18.600 --> 3:45:22.360 Dia l Fueimi. He was stabbed twenty six times and 3:45:22.480 --> 3:45:24.880 his mother was also attacked and was in critical condition. 3:45:25.400 --> 3:45:29.560 He was killed by his landlord who was spouting anti 3:45:29.680 --> 3:45:33.200 Muslim rhetoric. There's also a man in Illinois who was 3:45:33.280 --> 3:45:35.760 charged with a hate crime after he demanded two Muslim 3:45:35.800 --> 3:45:38.240 men to get out of the country and threaten to 3:45:38.320 --> 3:45:41.560 shoot them. And as we said, actual Muslims aren't the 3:45:41.640 --> 3:45:45.000 only ones at risk from Islamophobia, anyone perceived to be Muslim, 3:45:45.040 --> 3:45:47.640 including Arabs who belong to other faith groups and seeks. 3:45:47.680 --> 3:45:51.720 For example, our target. On October fifteenth, a nineteen year 3:45:51.720 --> 3:45:54.520 old sixteen was attacked on a New York City bus 3:45:54.840 --> 3:45:57.840 by an assailant who tried to remove his turban. And 3:45:57.879 --> 3:46:00.360 I think we should all remember that for palace Onions 3:46:00.400 --> 3:46:03.960 and more generally Arabs and brown people, this isn't a 3:46:04.040 --> 3:46:06.800 new thing. We've always been demonized and using the humanizing 3:46:06.879 --> 3:46:11.120 language has deadly consequences, often not only for Palestinians here, 3:46:11.240 --> 3:46:13.680 but those in Gaza and any person of color around 3:46:13.680 --> 3:46:16.440 the world. I want to also point out that he 3:46:16.520 --> 3:46:20.120 Jabbi women are easily identifiable as Muslim and they're particularly 3:46:20.280 --> 3:46:23.800 easy targets for people that are terrorist and filled with hate. 3:46:24.480 --> 3:46:27.760 A Muslim pediatrician, a Hijabi woman was killed after being 3:46:27.840 --> 3:46:32.560 stabbed multiple times while sitting outside her apartment complex last month. 3:46:33.240 --> 3:46:36.000 Yeah, and to tell the community that's just been bereaved 3:46:36.080 --> 3:46:40.440 to not you know, like be afraid, it's like again, 3:46:41.120 --> 3:46:42.320 it's a great time to say nothing. 3:46:42.360 --> 3:46:43.240 If that's your opinion. 3:46:43.920 --> 3:46:47.039 Yeah, I think it's we're not really considering how afraid 3:46:47.120 --> 3:46:48.480 the community is and they're. 3:46:49.720 --> 3:46:53.160 I don't want to minimize, like Jewish people feel afraid 3:46:53.200 --> 3:46:57.480 to Like there are realist in se anti Semitism, Like 3:46:57.959 --> 3:47:00.760 there are definitely right wing shit bags anti Semitic who 3:47:00.760 --> 3:47:04.440 are trying to hijack the Palestinia Liberation movement for their 3:47:04.480 --> 3:47:06.960 own ends, and they suck and they are terrible, and 3:47:07.040 --> 3:47:09.840 we should all denounce that. The same force to do 3:47:09.959 --> 3:47:13.640 with almophobia, Like that's not a controversial statement, I think 3:47:13.680 --> 3:47:15.199 for anyone who's not a complete herd. 3:47:15.720 --> 3:47:20.360 Yeah, both communities are rightfully fearful, and that fear is 3:47:20.440 --> 3:47:23.560 valid for both communities. The last thing I want to 3:47:23.600 --> 3:47:27.800 say about this rise in Salmophobia is that ex Obama 3:47:27.840 --> 3:47:33.080 advisor Stuart Seldowitz who was harassing and saying the most 3:47:33.280 --> 3:47:36.600 heinous things to this uh oh yeah, calal cart Vendor 3:47:36.760 --> 3:47:40.320 in New York. He was at one point the US 3:47:40.360 --> 3:47:44.600 State Department's director of the Office of Israel and Palestinian Affairs, 3:47:44.720 --> 3:47:46.320 which I think should tell you all you need to 3:47:46.400 --> 3:47:49.640 know about how our country feels about Palestine. Because he 3:47:49.760 --> 3:47:53.120 was saying truly abhorrent things like not enough children have 3:47:53.280 --> 3:47:53.879 died yet. 3:47:54.280 --> 3:47:57.760 You know, to be fair, that guy represents the shit bag. No, 3:47:57.879 --> 3:48:00.320 I'm not again, this is not a like pro state 3:48:00.400 --> 3:48:03.280 Department statement like that. There are definitely people within the 3:48:03.360 --> 3:48:06.920 State Department who are upset, Like people have left the 3:48:07.000 --> 3:48:09.879 State Department because of the way that and obviously those 3:48:09.920 --> 3:48:12.119 people have felt that their voices are being marginalized because 3:48:12.120 --> 3:48:14.200 they've chosen to leave, right that they haven't been listened to. 3:48:14.400 --> 3:48:16.480 But I guess I wanted to bring that up because 3:48:17.000 --> 3:48:20.440 someone with that much hate was in charge of some 3:48:20.600 --> 3:48:24.040 decisions that affected Palestine, and he has so much and 3:48:24.200 --> 3:48:26.320 when you watch these videos that are taken on multiple days, 3:48:26.360 --> 3:48:29.560 which indicates that he was stalking this person, you see 3:48:29.600 --> 3:48:33.320 this man smiling and like almost hannibal lectory, and he's 3:48:33.480 --> 3:48:36.560 filled with so much hate it is like spewing out 3:48:36.600 --> 3:48:36.879 of him. 3:48:37.200 --> 3:48:38.640 Yeah, it's genuinely disturbing. 3:48:38.879 --> 3:48:39.760 Yeah, it's disturbing. 3:48:40.320 --> 3:48:42.880 Yeah, it's disturbing. Like I kept saying that for weeks 3:48:42.879 --> 3:48:43.960 to no one punched him in the face. 3:48:44.040 --> 3:48:44.560 But it's. 3:48:45.920 --> 3:48:49.280 Yeah, a better world, yeah, one day. 3:48:49.760 --> 3:48:53.000 But essentially I wanted to just go over that really quickly. 3:48:53.040 --> 3:48:56.600 About how the rise in Slamophobia and anti Palestinian, anti 3:48:56.640 --> 3:48:59.760 Arab sentiment makes it even more important to continue to 3:48:59.800 --> 3:49:02.560 say end up for Palestine and their people and their 3:49:02.600 --> 3:49:05.800 fight for liberation, and wearing the kaffia itself has been 3:49:05.840 --> 3:49:09.360 a symbol of this struggle for Palestine liberation and so 3:49:09.480 --> 3:49:12.720 we wanted to tell you guys about its history. James 3:49:12.760 --> 3:49:14.040 is wearing one right now. Good job. 3:49:14.480 --> 3:49:15.880 Yeah, because he's cold. 3:49:18.240 --> 3:49:19.880 Visual prop for a podcast. 3:49:20.720 --> 3:49:22.120 Yeah, I love to do it. 3:49:22.120 --> 3:49:24.760 It's a it's a little secret between us. 3:49:24.960 --> 3:49:28.800 Yeah, yeah, well not anymore. Sorry, no name, no thanks, Serene. 3:49:30.000 --> 3:49:33.240 But what is the kaffia? Just go over the basics. 3:49:33.360 --> 3:49:37.480 It's a cotton square shaped headdress with a distinctive checkered 3:49:37.560 --> 3:49:40.000 pattern that is worn in many parts of the Arab world. 3:49:40.360 --> 3:49:42.480 The black and white one is known to be worn 3:49:42.520 --> 3:49:45.720 in Palestine. And I didn't know this to be completely honest, 3:49:45.760 --> 3:49:49.000 but apparently it dates back to Sumerians and Babylonians and 3:49:49.040 --> 3:49:53.040 Mesopotamia and thirty one hundred BC. It's been called other 3:49:53.360 --> 3:49:55.360 words as well. I think the most common one other 3:49:55.480 --> 3:49:58.840 than kaffia is the hata. It's also said that the 3:49:59.000 --> 3:50:01.920 prophet Muhammad war One as well, so it has a 3:50:01.960 --> 3:50:04.440 long history and it was used as the symbol of 3:50:04.560 --> 3:50:08.160 high rank and honor among priests. When you move forward 3:50:08.200 --> 3:50:11.000 in history, the kaffea was adopted by peasants who wore 3:50:11.080 --> 3:50:13.240 it while they were working on the land to protect 3:50:13.280 --> 3:50:15.480 them from the sun and the sand, that seems obvious. 3:50:15.920 --> 3:50:18.600 And it was in the winter to protect them from 3:50:18.640 --> 3:50:21.280 the cold. A very multifunctional piece of clothing. 3:50:21.800 --> 3:50:25.520 Yeah, you see, like everyone in this region has some 3:50:25.760 --> 3:50:28.800 kind of thing, Like Kuldish people have their own different versions, right, 3:50:29.520 --> 3:50:32.080 everyone behind me, the Kurdish refuge gave to me the 3:50:32.120 --> 3:50:35.080 other day, which is very kind. But like even when 3:50:35.120 --> 3:50:38.400 you saw the United States troops fighting in the Middle East, right, 3:50:38.440 --> 3:50:41.200 they adopted like their like tactical version that was like 3:50:41.800 --> 3:50:44.720 a green bass. But like it's a very practical garment 3:50:44.800 --> 3:50:46.440 that people in this part of the world have worn 3:50:46.520 --> 3:50:50.080 full Like even before Islamic people wore these things so 3:50:50.320 --> 3:50:52.160 like cover their faces. 3:50:51.960 --> 3:50:55.080 And because it made sense practically, like it's just yeah, 3:50:55.280 --> 3:50:59.320 for the climate, very handy. Yeah yeah, And this. 3:50:59.480 --> 3:51:01.600 Is not very commonly known, but the patterns on the 3:51:01.680 --> 3:51:05.080 kaffia is known to symbolize different aspects of Palestinian life. 3:51:05.440 --> 3:51:07.960 So there are some bold black stripes on the edges 3:51:08.040 --> 3:51:10.560 that are meant to symbolize the historical trade routes that 3:51:10.640 --> 3:51:14.080 used to go through Palestine. There's a fishnet like design 3:51:14.200 --> 3:51:17.840 that represents Palestinian fishermen and the Palestine connection to the 3:51:17.920 --> 3:51:21.040 Mediterranean Sea. And then there are some curvy lines that 3:51:21.160 --> 3:51:24.520 resemble olive trees, which are a major point of pride 3:51:24.560 --> 3:51:30.440 for Palestinians, with the pattern representing perseverance, strength and resilience. 3:51:30.760 --> 3:51:35.120 So it's an extremely symbolic, important symbol for Palestine. It 3:51:35.160 --> 3:51:36.760 hasn't always been, and that's what we're going to be 3:51:36.800 --> 3:51:39.480 going through because at this point, Palestinians view it as 3:51:39.520 --> 3:51:43.120 a symbol of their cultural and national identity, and unfortunately 3:51:43.200 --> 3:51:45.520 others view it as a threat because, as I mentioned, 3:51:45.600 --> 3:51:48.760 those students that got shot in Vermont, where two of 3:51:48.800 --> 3:51:50.400 them are wearing a caffea, it's said that they were 3:51:50.400 --> 3:51:52.760 speaking in Arabic and one of these students is now 3:51:52.880 --> 3:51:56.760 paralyzed from the chest down. So it really is important 3:51:56.960 --> 3:52:00.280 to deconstruct what the scarf is and why on earth 3:52:00.360 --> 3:52:02.760 it would spark that kind of fear and anybody, because 3:52:02.920 --> 3:52:08.480 it's not about fear or hate, it's about Palestinian pride 3:52:08.880 --> 3:52:12.760 and culture and history. As long as Palestinians are oppressed, 3:52:12.840 --> 3:52:15.960 then even something as simple as a traditional scarf can 3:52:16.040 --> 3:52:19.800 turn into something bigger than just cultural pride, because now 3:52:19.880 --> 3:52:23.600 it's a political statement, and I want everyone to realize 3:52:23.640 --> 3:52:26.240 that it's not something to be feared or something to 3:52:26.280 --> 3:52:28.800 get nervous around if you see it out in the open. 3:52:29.400 --> 3:52:31.160 So let's go back in history. Are you ready to 3:52:31.200 --> 3:52:31.880 go back in history? 3:52:31.960 --> 3:52:32.240 James? 3:52:33.040 --> 3:52:35.440 I am, yeah, that's an We can we do a 3:52:35.520 --> 3:52:38.200 sound machine, Daniel, like, like a try and Travel sound. 3:52:40.520 --> 3:52:42.640 Do you guys ever play Mario's Time Machine? I was 3:52:42.640 --> 3:52:44.120 obsessed with that game PC. 3:52:44.400 --> 3:52:44.960 It did help. 3:52:45.600 --> 3:52:49.320 Maybe you don't find that sound. So the kaffea evolved 3:52:49.360 --> 3:52:51.880 out of the common headdress, as we're saying that men 3:52:52.000 --> 3:52:55.440 in the Middle East war to protect themselves from the elements. 3:52:56.240 --> 3:53:00.720 It was specifically worn by nomadic and Bedouin community, from 3:53:00.840 --> 3:53:04.680 villagers to city people and townspeople. And while the kaffea 3:53:04.800 --> 3:53:08.320 was often associated with peasants, the bus or the red 3:53:08.440 --> 3:53:10.400 felt hat that is like a cylinder shape that you 3:53:10.480 --> 3:53:13.520 might see people wear that was often worn by more urban, 3:53:13.760 --> 3:53:16.880 middle and upper class Palestinians. I wanted to point out 3:53:16.920 --> 3:53:18.800 here that the word like peasants is a little bit 3:53:18.840 --> 3:53:22.160 extreme because the word in Arabic is pH lahin and 3:53:22.240 --> 3:53:25.880 fe laheen. I guess is more villager type, but it's 3:53:25.920 --> 3:53:28.880 not really used in a very condescending way because a 3:53:28.960 --> 3:53:31.800 lot of things are considered for lahi, Like the one 3:53:31.800 --> 3:53:34.320 of my favorite dishes in the Middle East is judada, 3:53:34.320 --> 3:53:36.720 which is just lentils and rice, and that's considered a 3:53:36.800 --> 3:53:39.440 falahei dish. So I just wanted to put that out 3:53:39.440 --> 3:53:42.880 there that it's not like a dis per se in 3:53:43.000 --> 3:53:46.280 Arabic to say, to call them peasants, it is like 3:53:46.360 --> 3:53:49.400 an indication that they are of lower class because jud 3:53:49.480 --> 3:53:51.840 dada is cheap to make, for example. But it's not 3:53:51.960 --> 3:53:55.040 exactly this like surf word. Does that make sense? 3:53:55.240 --> 3:54:01.160 Yeah, yeah, like humble, not like yeah yeah, like I said, yes, exactly. 3:54:02.240 --> 3:54:02.280 So. 3:54:02.560 --> 3:54:05.800 In nineteen thirty six, though, things started to change in 3:54:05.880 --> 3:54:09.320 the Arab Revolt when there was an uprising against British 3:54:09.400 --> 3:54:12.880 rule and occupation of Palestine, and this included demands for 3:54:12.920 --> 3:54:17.040 independence and an end to Jewish immigration. The armed Palestinian 3:54:17.120 --> 3:54:20.400 rebel groups were largely made up of poorer men, so 3:54:20.560 --> 3:54:22.440 in this way, whether it was intentional or not. In 3:54:22.480 --> 3:54:25.960 the beginning, the kaffia basically was their uniform because these 3:54:26.000 --> 3:54:28.240 rebel groups were made up of poorer men and that 3:54:28.400 --> 3:54:31.400 was what they wore, and that made it easier for 3:54:31.440 --> 3:54:34.040 the British to target them when they were in urban areas. 3:54:34.360 --> 3:54:38.760 So as the fighting escalated, rebel leaders urged Palestinian men, 3:54:38.920 --> 3:54:42.240 all Palestinian men to ditch the tarbush and don the 3:54:42.320 --> 3:54:45.920 kaffia instead, and so when Palestinians did this, it allowed 3:54:46.000 --> 3:54:49.880 fighters to blend in and evade British troops. At that time, 3:54:50.120 --> 3:54:52.440 the majority of the armed resistance was taking place in 3:54:52.480 --> 3:54:55.920 the villages, and the fighters used kafia to hide their features, 3:54:56.440 --> 3:54:59.680 helping it to become associated with the revolution. So it 3:54:59.760 --> 3:55:02.560 was only a strategic success to do this on the 3:55:02.640 --> 3:55:04.800 rebels part, but it was a breakthrough for the lower 3:55:04.840 --> 3:55:09.720 class as well, who basically forced their clothing onto the elites, 3:55:10.040 --> 3:55:13.120 and this catapulted the kafa as something that crossed classes 3:55:13.600 --> 3:55:16.120 and became a prominent national symbol. 3:55:16.960 --> 3:55:20.760 This is like perfectly timed as well to coincide with 3:55:20.880 --> 3:55:23.880 like the rise of nations to nationalism in the early 3:55:24.000 --> 3:55:27.160 nineteenth and like a late nineteenth thirty twentieth century, right 3:55:27.240 --> 3:55:31.120 like the Yeah, when religion and religion stops having this 3:55:31.240 --> 3:55:33.800 universal claim on truth and we see the client and 3:55:33.840 --> 3:55:37.520 monarchy at the same time, the rise in more like 3:55:37.680 --> 3:55:40.800 at first like middle class democracies, right got them Sometimes 3:55:40.840 --> 3:55:43.960 bosche Our revolutions like the nation came to be the 3:55:44.040 --> 3:55:46.800 way one could argue that the working class were kind 3:55:46.840 --> 3:55:50.240 of being tricked into supporting this bolshour project or however 3:55:50.240 --> 3:55:53.520 you want to see it. But yeah, nations arose well 3:55:53.520 --> 3:55:55.640 around the world this time, and they all took on symbols, 3:55:55.640 --> 3:55:59.360 so like this was perfectly timed to sort of slide 3:55:59.440 --> 3:56:00.960 into that pos totally. 3:56:01.120 --> 3:56:04.800 That's a really good point. So as the revolt came 3:56:04.960 --> 3:56:09.120 to an end, some elites, Palestinian elites, discarded the kaffia 3:56:09.200 --> 3:56:11.680 and they turned back to the tabus. But at that 3:56:11.800 --> 3:56:13.720 point it was already too late because the cafe had 3:56:13.720 --> 3:56:17.160 already been established as this emblem for Palestinian resistance, and 3:56:18.320 --> 3:56:21.120 this made Palestinine men also just start wearing it for 3:56:21.760 --> 3:56:25.600 an expression of their national identity. In the nineteen sixties, 3:56:25.760 --> 3:56:29.680 we saw it become even more unifying because women started 3:56:29.680 --> 3:56:32.680 to get included into the picture. Leila Khalid is a 3:56:32.760 --> 3:56:36.280 Palestine activist and a former militant who, fun fact, was 3:56:36.320 --> 3:56:41.800 the first woman to ever hijack a plane. Yeah feminism, 3:56:42.640 --> 3:56:45.400 after she took part in hijacking a plane flying from 3:56:45.520 --> 3:56:48.320 Rome to Tel Aviv in nineteen sixty nine. Just to 3:56:48.720 --> 3:56:50.960 a disclaimer that no one was injured in this hijacking, 3:56:51.280 --> 3:56:53.400 that wasn't the point of it. But a journal was 3:56:53.520 --> 3:56:57.120 captured a photo of Khalid holding her rifle while styling 3:56:57.160 --> 3:57:00.360 a kafia like a woman's head scarf, and this image 3:57:00.400 --> 3:57:04.080 became so popular it helped cement Leila Kylote's status as 3:57:04.080 --> 3:57:08.200 an icon in the Palestine resistance movement. I think Leilah 3:57:08.200 --> 3:57:10.120 Skala deserves an episode all on her own because she's 3:57:10.120 --> 3:57:12.880 an extremely fascinating woman and she's still alive, so maybe 3:57:12.920 --> 3:57:15.800 one day. But her choice to wear the kaffia was 3:57:15.920 --> 3:57:18.520 viewed as a feminist move on her part, and it 3:57:18.640 --> 3:57:21.720 ushered in this idea that Palestinian women were part of 3:57:21.760 --> 3:57:24.680 the Palestinian rebellion and a part of activism, part of 3:57:24.720 --> 3:57:28.280 the resistance, and because they had largely been excluded in 3:57:28.400 --> 3:57:31.560 some way or regulated to other roles in the resistance, 3:57:31.800 --> 3:57:34.640 and so by making the statement and putting the kaffea 3:57:34.720 --> 3:57:38.440 over her head. She was also acknowledging cultural norms of 3:57:38.480 --> 3:57:42.960 Palestinians and using a men's scarf to do it. But 3:57:43.440 --> 3:57:46.040 at the time I think it was really revolutionary. And 3:57:47.320 --> 3:57:50.080 first when you see the kaffia break classes, now you 3:57:50.160 --> 3:57:52.520 see it break genders. And now it's becoming even more 3:57:52.680 --> 3:57:55.640 acceptable for more people to wear it. And so she 3:57:55.760 --> 3:57:58.480 continued to wear the caffea, often around her neck, and 3:57:58.600 --> 3:58:01.560 it inspired many Palatine way to do the same. But 3:58:02.160 --> 3:58:04.720 at the same time that hijacking she took part in 3:58:04.960 --> 3:58:08.320 drew international attention and many people in the West started 3:58:08.320 --> 3:58:12.800 associating Palestine resistance with terrorism, and unfortunately this meant the 3:58:12.880 --> 3:58:16.360 caffee would also come to mean something else in the 3:58:16.400 --> 3:58:20.880 Western world. The Alstar Arafat almost did not go anywhere 3:58:21.000 --> 3:58:23.880 without a caffee. He was the chairman of the PLO 3:58:24.080 --> 3:58:26.680 from nineteen sixty nine to two thousand and four, and 3:58:26.800 --> 3:58:29.680 he helped popularize the image of wearing a caffea around 3:58:29.720 --> 3:58:32.640 the world by again almost always wearing one in public, 3:58:33.200 --> 3:58:37.040 and many non Palestine activists at this time, especially those 3:58:37.080 --> 3:58:40.360 who participated in anti colonial, anti war, and other social 3:58:40.560 --> 3:58:43.440 justice protests, they began to recognize the scarf as a 3:58:43.520 --> 3:58:46.720 symbol of resistance and wear it to express the solidarity 3:58:46.800 --> 3:58:51.280 with Palestinians. But at this point Israel had labeled Arafat 3:58:51.320 --> 3:58:54.400 to terrorist and the United States designated the PLO as 3:58:54.440 --> 3:58:58.640 a terrorist organization. And so again. While some people identified 3:58:59.000 --> 3:59:02.240 this scarf with the Palestinian struggle, others viewed it as 3:59:02.280 --> 3:59:07.600 controversial and even a violent symbol. Many other global leaders 3:59:07.640 --> 3:59:10.520 around the world started wearing the kaffea as well. Even 3:59:10.560 --> 3:59:14.560 Nelson Mandela at one point was photographed wearing one. I 3:59:14.640 --> 3:59:18.960 think something especially humorous in modern times is how the 3:59:19.040 --> 3:59:23.760 kaffia has entered the fashion world, and its meaning is 3:59:23.840 --> 3:59:28.440 kind of completely erased when this happens. Some clothing brands 3:59:28.520 --> 3:59:31.840 took the scarf's widespread appeal and co opted it, and 3:59:31.920 --> 3:59:35.000 it sanitized its meaning, and it erased its relationship with 3:59:35.040 --> 3:59:37.600 the Palestinian cause. I think it's important to bring up 3:59:37.640 --> 3:59:43.600 here that Palestinians and supporters of Palestine encourage everyone to 3:59:43.680 --> 3:59:46.240 wear the scarf. It's not appropriating it when you wear 3:59:46.320 --> 3:59:49.520 it in solidarity. It's appropriating it if you co opt 3:59:49.600 --> 3:59:52.680 it and make it into something. It's not like a 3:59:52.800 --> 3:59:55.640 skirt or I saw a version of one that had 3:59:55.720 --> 3:59:58.240 like intricate stars of David in there to be worn 3:59:58.280 --> 4:00:02.120 by Israelis. I think that's appropriation. But when it comes 4:00:02.200 --> 4:00:05.680 to solidarity and being in protests and showing that you 4:00:05.800 --> 4:00:08.560 care about the Palestinian cause, it's encouraged to wear it. 4:00:08.720 --> 4:00:10.040 And so I feel like a lot of people are 4:00:10.080 --> 4:00:13.200 afraid of cultural appropriation. 4:00:13.000 --> 4:00:13.520 But it's not. 4:00:15.640 --> 4:00:17.320 When it comes to the Kaffea, it's not about that. 4:00:17.560 --> 4:00:20.640 It's about solidarity more so than the act of wearing 4:00:20.760 --> 4:00:22.360 something that is from Palestine. 4:00:23.640 --> 4:00:27.440 Yeah, it's not the same as wearing a plane Sdian 4:00:27.440 --> 4:00:32.280 headdress for example, or known sink for child. Very abbrupritive. 4:00:32.400 --> 4:00:35.480 And you should listen to the people who'se things you're 4:00:35.560 --> 4:00:37.040 wearing before you wear them. 4:00:37.600 --> 4:00:40.000 That's a rule. Oh yeah, before you make them into 4:00:40.080 --> 4:00:41.840 your mini skirt line. Yeah. 4:00:42.760 --> 4:00:46.280 And when capitalism enters the picture, that's when we cross 4:00:46.400 --> 4:00:50.200 into appropriation territory usually and the symbolic meaning goes away. 4:00:51.480 --> 4:00:55.040 In twenty sixteen, for example, an Israeli fashion designer Dodo 4:00:55.240 --> 4:00:59.000 Baro use the kaffia to create a range of dresses 4:00:59.200 --> 4:01:02.680 and miniskirts and she receives a lot of backlash for this. 4:01:03.600 --> 4:01:07.120 I think Israel. Doing this is especially ironic only because 4:01:07.240 --> 4:01:11.520 what haven't they stolen is my question? Land the food 4:01:11.760 --> 4:01:15.080 and now the clothing. I think it's pretty yeah sad. 4:01:15.480 --> 4:01:17.920 Yeah, that's right up there with like the Washington football 4:01:17.960 --> 4:01:21.320 team having a racist sass name or like, yes, exactly, 4:01:21.440 --> 4:01:27.960 it's very appropriate and almost genocidal right to like suggest that, 4:01:28.120 --> 4:01:29.880 like these people have a long history here kind of 4:01:30.000 --> 4:01:32.200 like that's actually your history, and like take it and make. 4:01:32.160 --> 4:01:38.720 Exactly it's like really insiduous. It's it's like a cruel 4:01:38.920 --> 4:01:41.400 to co opt a struggle that people are just like 4:01:41.520 --> 4:01:44.280 trying to their people are having tried to survive for 4:01:44.360 --> 4:01:48.280 so long, and to make it into something silly, to 4:01:48.360 --> 4:01:50.560 make it into something that it's not, is really hurtful 4:01:50.640 --> 4:01:51.880 and really pathetic. 4:01:52.000 --> 4:01:53.000 Yeah, it's not respectful. 4:01:53.120 --> 4:01:55.080 It's not like it doesn't show a good faith effort 4:01:55.160 --> 4:01:57.960 to come to a solution in which both people are respected. 4:01:57.600 --> 4:01:58.200 Right exactly. 4:01:59.080 --> 4:02:01.600 The last example to make, as far as fashion quoe 4:02:01.640 --> 4:02:04.320 unquote goes, is that in two thousand and seven, Urban 4:02:04.400 --> 4:02:08.480 Outfitters sold a coffea that came in many different colors, 4:02:08.800 --> 4:02:11.960 but they simply promoted it as a anti war scarf, 4:02:12.720 --> 4:02:17.080 and unsurprisingly controversy ensued and they eventually pulled the item 4:02:17.120 --> 4:02:20.760 from its shelves. But I do remember this really brief 4:02:20.840 --> 4:02:23.320 moment in time where this happened, and it was so 4:02:23.560 --> 4:02:27.280 bizarre I just had to mention it. But let's take 4:02:27.280 --> 4:02:28.240 for a second break. 4:02:29.360 --> 4:02:33.360 And then we'll come back with a story about that scarff. Yeah, 4:02:33.440 --> 4:02:35.640 this is hopefully does not have for United Airlines famous 4:02:35.720 --> 4:02:40.720 kafia enjoys. All right, we're back, and we're back to 4:02:40.800 --> 4:02:46.040 discuss famous supporter of the palatini caused Rachel Ray Because 4:02:47.160 --> 4:02:49.240 for those of you who are blessed to be thus 4:02:49.280 --> 4:02:53.280 far unaware of this. In two thousand and eight, Rachel 4:02:53.400 --> 4:02:56.640 Ray wore a kaffia, or as she actually wore the 4:02:56.760 --> 4:02:59.920 Urban Outfitters model, which is like a silk scarf. 4:03:00.040 --> 4:03:00.800 It's a little different. 4:03:01.560 --> 4:03:05.000 Kafirs are normally like a thick kind of cotton. She 4:03:05.160 --> 4:03:08.560 wore it in a Dunkin Donuts dunkin Donuts is no 4:03:08.680 --> 4:03:14.640 g dunkin Donuts advert and Michelle Malkin, who's one in 4:03:14.640 --> 4:03:18.480 along line of crazy right wing people, accused her of 4:03:19.000 --> 4:03:22.480 wearing quote worrying the symbol of murderous palestin jin Jahad, 4:03:23.200 --> 4:03:25.480 which is which is a real insight into where we 4:03:25.560 --> 4:03:28.480 were there at the end of the of the Bush 4:03:28.560 --> 4:03:33.280 presidency as a nation. Absolutely batch it insane. That was 4:03:33.320 --> 4:03:34.280 when I moved to America. 4:03:34.360 --> 4:03:34.720 Good times. 4:03:34.720 --> 4:03:36.800 Actually, that was when I moved to America wearing a 4:03:36.920 --> 4:03:40.280 kafir on the plane because it was idea it's my 4:03:40.360 --> 4:03:42.120 thing that I worried a gift from someone who are 4:03:42.800 --> 4:03:46.240 very close with and we used to weard more the 4:03:46.320 --> 4:03:48.920 time at protests. That was a time when its Lamophobia 4:03:49.080 --> 4:03:52.160 was like very present in the UK and so like 4:03:52.280 --> 4:03:54.280 it was kind of a way a way I guess 4:03:54.360 --> 4:03:58.120 to show sort of arity or invite confrontation, depending on 4:03:58.200 --> 4:03:59.560 if it was me or not. I think I was 4:03:59.600 --> 4:04:03.160 probably Column B as well as Column MAY. But it 4:04:03.320 --> 4:04:04.840 was just the thing that I wore, you know. And 4:04:04.960 --> 4:04:07.840 it was at that point the movement for a free 4:04:07.880 --> 4:04:09.840 Palestine with I think, much more established in the UK 4:04:09.960 --> 4:04:13.400 than it was in the US and among obviously like 4:04:13.920 --> 4:04:17.000 white folks such to himself. I immediately got sent to 4:04:17.480 --> 4:04:20.240 like a secondary inspection when I arrived in the United States. 4:04:21.160 --> 4:04:22.920 I got off the plane, I had my little badge 4:04:22.920 --> 4:04:24.960 with the Palestinian flag, I have my little cafea and 4:04:25.040 --> 4:04:27.200 the guy was just like go in the room, and 4:04:27.320 --> 4:04:29.400 then yeah, we had a great talk about the stuff 4:04:29.400 --> 4:04:33.040 I had from Cuba, which at the time was obviously 4:04:33.160 --> 4:04:35.160 not a place that Americans were able to go. I 4:04:35.200 --> 4:04:37.200 think I still can't. So yeah, it was great, It's good. 4:04:37.240 --> 4:04:39.040 It was a wonderful start. They asked me what I 4:04:39.120 --> 4:04:40.520 was doing for my PhD. I told them I was 4:04:40.560 --> 4:04:43.240 studying anarchism. That went down like a sack of shit, 4:04:43.680 --> 4:04:48.960 and you know, from there it began along and enjoyable 4:04:49.040 --> 4:04:52.000 relationship with our friends who keep us safe at our borders. 4:04:52.720 --> 4:04:56.400 Wow, still has an orgin story. I suppose. 4:04:58.080 --> 4:05:04.800 Before that I was just a lib not true. Any 4:05:05.640 --> 4:05:06.840 interesting Saturday nights. 4:05:07.280 --> 4:05:09.040 No, thank you for sharing that. I didn't know about 4:05:09.040 --> 4:05:11.320 the Racheal raything until you told me about it, because 4:05:11.800 --> 4:05:15.800 I mean, way to go dunkin Donuts, I guess it's like. 4:05:15.920 --> 4:05:18.920 Yeah, Unfortunately they pulled the advert like still it's a 4:05:18.960 --> 4:05:22.640 shame in theory. Yeah still yeah, yeah, Dunky donut stands 4:05:22.640 --> 4:05:25.640 with Palestine. It's okay, it's okay to put a donut 4:05:25.680 --> 4:05:29.080 on your kaffir because donuts are a friend of the 4:05:29.120 --> 4:05:29.960 Palestinian people. 4:05:30.640 --> 4:05:32.040 That's the takeaway. Correct. 4:05:33.000 --> 4:05:35.320 Throughout we had donuts the I was, I was covering 4:05:35.320 --> 4:05:37.960 a protest the other day outside of your own manifacturing facility. 4:05:38.040 --> 4:05:41.400 Someone bought donuts. Doughnuts can continue to stand alongside the 4:05:41.440 --> 4:05:42.280 Palestinian people. 4:05:42.440 --> 4:05:47.800 Well powerful. Yeah, I wanted to mention really quick, how 4:05:48.360 --> 4:05:51.600 I mean, in addition to capitalism, just like being a disease, 4:05:52.280 --> 4:05:54.840 A lot of kaffeas nowadays are being sold, like in 4:05:55.080 --> 4:05:58.200 mass because the Palestinian cause is getting more popular. But 4:05:58.320 --> 4:06:01.480 there's only one fact three left in Palestine that actually 4:06:01.560 --> 4:06:05.560 makes them more than five decades ago, there were about 4:06:05.680 --> 4:06:09.680 thirty across Palestine, and now there is one in Hebron, Hitterbowie. 4:06:10.360 --> 4:06:14.600 It's the only caffe manufacturer left and it's been seeing 4:06:14.680 --> 4:06:17.800 a huge uptick that is, in their words, unparalleled ever 4:06:17.880 --> 4:06:21.720 before in their sales. Apparently they sold eighteen thousand of 4:06:21.760 --> 4:06:24.600 them in October and now they're in high demand all 4:06:24.640 --> 4:06:27.840 the like. It's sold out everywhere. And this is the 4:06:27.920 --> 4:06:32.000 authentic coffe. So one I have, Yeah, you have one 4:06:32.000 --> 4:06:33.200 from Putter Wawi, which is great. 4:06:33.240 --> 4:06:33.960 It's very nice. 4:06:34.040 --> 4:06:37.080 Actually, yeah, don't be buying like an Abby Express one 4:06:37.240 --> 4:06:40.160 because they're thinner and like it's when it's very nice. 4:06:40.400 --> 4:06:42.560 You can tell when it's authentic because it's good quality, 4:06:42.640 --> 4:06:45.640 has a weight to it. And just aside from that, 4:06:45.960 --> 4:06:49.800 supporting Palestine companies is important. And they're not the only 4:06:49.880 --> 4:06:53.600 ones that sell Palestine coffeas they have some websites that 4:06:53.640 --> 4:06:56.680 they that they share on their website that you can 4:06:56.720 --> 4:06:58.760 get their kaffeas through. But I think it's important to 4:06:58.800 --> 4:07:01.400 realize that there's only one place left in all of 4:07:01.480 --> 4:07:03.640 Palestine that still makes the kaffita. 4:07:03.960 --> 4:07:07.560 Yeah, it's a good gift in the holiday season by one. 4:07:08.240 --> 4:07:11.960 Yeah, go add yourself to their email lissigns and they 4:07:12.040 --> 4:07:15.160 notify you when it's available for pre order. So I 4:07:15.200 --> 4:07:19.960 think supporting that factory is really important, especially now. And 4:07:20.120 --> 4:07:21.920 it's heartbreaking that it's the last one. 4:07:22.880 --> 4:07:26.480 But makes a great slink too. One time I broke 4:07:26.560 --> 4:07:28.480 my arm and used his guy to tie it off. 4:07:28.560 --> 4:07:31.360 It was works like a chap nice. So it's got 4:07:31.440 --> 4:07:32.000 my endorsement. 4:07:32.120 --> 4:07:34.640 Yeah, multiple functions still to this day. 4:07:35.520 --> 4:07:35.720 Yep. 4:07:35.840 --> 4:07:37.480 Now you can do all kinds of things. The blankets 4:07:37.560 --> 4:07:39.800 a sling. You can filter water through it because it's 4:07:39.880 --> 4:07:43.320 like a cotton fabric. You have some turbid water. So yeah, 4:07:43.440 --> 4:07:50.360 many uses exactly are you familiar with Dick hebdigger. No, no, no, okay, 4:07:50.400 --> 4:07:53.880 head Big is academic right about punk. But in his 4:07:54.040 --> 4:07:57.440 work on punk, he talked about how subcultures become commodified 4:07:57.440 --> 4:08:02.000 and then they just become aesthetics. And that's like the 4:08:02.160 --> 4:08:03.920 point in which happens to punk is when you can 4:08:03.960 --> 4:08:06.480 buy like a battle jacket, or look that jacket with 4:08:06.480 --> 4:08:08.920 safety pinsil down the arms a gap right like that, 4:08:09.080 --> 4:08:10.600 It's no longer punk, is it if you got it 4:08:10.600 --> 4:08:12.560 from fucking gap? Like the whole point of punk is 4:08:12.600 --> 4:08:14.760 to do it yourself. And I think this is in 4:08:14.960 --> 4:08:17.440 danger of happening again, as it kind of did in 4:08:17.520 --> 4:08:19.840 the early two thousands. So it just becomes an aesthetic. 4:08:20.720 --> 4:08:24.240 I don't want it to undermine the Palestinian narrative for liberation, 4:08:24.400 --> 4:08:25.920 you know what I mean. That's the thing that I 4:08:25.960 --> 4:08:29.080 hope does not happen. I don't think it is right now. 4:08:29.240 --> 4:08:31.800 I think so far people are wearing it in solidarity, 4:08:31.840 --> 4:08:34.240 and I personally really like when I see someone wearing 4:08:34.280 --> 4:08:37.440 it because I don't want I want it to be normalized. 4:08:37.440 --> 4:08:39.080 I don't want it to be something that people look 4:08:39.120 --> 4:08:41.760 at and are afraid of or are afraid of wearing. 4:08:41.840 --> 4:08:43.840 Because after the shooting, that happened in Vermont. A lot 4:08:43.880 --> 4:08:47.120 of people were afraid of even wearing a kafir of course. 4:08:47.600 --> 4:08:50.400 Yeah, I think it's the solidarity thing you can do, right, Like, 4:08:51.600 --> 4:08:54.280 you know, you can wear this, You're not only showing 4:08:54.320 --> 4:08:57.880 your solidarity. Maybe you can invite conversations, you know, Yeah, exactly, 4:08:58.480 --> 4:09:02.080 you can educate folks and like also, yeah, if people 4:09:02.120 --> 4:09:05.680 are being targeted, like you can choose to stand with 4:09:05.800 --> 4:09:08.320 them or not right and by doing that, you know, 4:09:08.760 --> 4:09:11.600 hopefully they can't shoot all of us. One would help, 4:09:11.640 --> 4:09:15.200 you know America, they fucking they've been trying. So, yeah, 4:09:15.880 --> 4:09:19.120 you can do it in the sense of solidarity. And yeah, 4:09:19.160 --> 4:09:22.320 maybe maybe you can spark some conversations which can be beneficial. 4:09:22.360 --> 4:09:23.440 You can educate some people. 4:09:24.440 --> 4:09:27.040 Yeah, if they call you, if they call it the 4:09:27.080 --> 4:09:30.520 scarff of Islamic murderists you had or whatever that Michelle 4:09:30.560 --> 4:09:33.440 Malkin called it, and probably know the conversation that will end. Well, 4:09:33.800 --> 4:09:35.560 then you can destroy a donut at that person. 4:09:36.360 --> 4:09:40.480 Yeah, it's up to us to take actions that change 4:09:40.640 --> 4:09:41.760 how people perceive. 4:09:41.520 --> 4:09:42.160 Things in the world. 4:09:42.240 --> 4:09:43.800 And that's just a great example. 4:09:43.560 --> 4:09:44.160 Of one thing. 4:09:44.800 --> 4:09:48.440 But I guess we've talked about in this episode how 4:09:48.600 --> 4:09:52.880 the coffea is part of the Palestinian past, present, and future. 4:09:53.240 --> 4:09:56.320 It's a historical artifact that documents the history of a people, 4:09:56.760 --> 4:10:00.840 and it's a living symbol that inspires hope. And it's 4:10:00.920 --> 4:10:04.520 interesting that a piece of cloth can have such strong 4:10:04.640 --> 4:10:08.880 emotions tied to it, but it's really inspiring that it's 4:10:08.920 --> 4:10:13.760 a prevailing symbol of freedom. And yeah, I love it. 4:10:14.480 --> 4:10:18.000 I feel pride wearing it. The Caffeia has become a 4:10:18.080 --> 4:10:21.960 way for Palestinians to visualize their land, visualize their home, 4:10:22.400 --> 4:10:26.400 and visualize Palestine as an entity that can exist in 4:10:26.560 --> 4:10:31.160 themselves as well as outside on their clothed bodies. So 4:10:32.000 --> 4:10:38.800 that's the episode. Uh Free Palestine. Bye Hey. 4:10:38.960 --> 4:10:42.040 We'll be back Monday, with more episodes every week from 4:10:42.080 --> 4:10:43.760 now until the heat death of the universe. 4:10:44.400 --> 4:10:46.720 It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 4:10:46.960 --> 4:10:49.600 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 4:10:49.680 --> 4:10:51.840 cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the 4:10:51.920 --> 4:10:55.280 iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 4:10:55.760 --> 4:10:57.840 You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated 4:10:57.920 --> 4:11:01.960 monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,