WEBVTT - LANCE ARMSTRONG 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:03.080 The Lance Armstrong episode. I have been looking forward to 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:05.720 this ever since we launched the podcast, and finally, deep 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:08.720 in season three, we made it happen. And I've done 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:12.799 a Lance for thirty four years, but we had never 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:17.079 had this conversation. I'm gonna be totally honest with Chris. 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:19.600 If we had this conversation, You're one of my best buds. 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:21.440 If you had asked me these questions or ask any 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:23.440 of these questions twelve years ago, I would have lie 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.239 through my fucking teeth and one of my best friends. Now, 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.800 how how messed up is that? I mean when I 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.919 think of my story and I was powerful, I mean 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:35.320 I could I could, you know, should I ask President 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:37.000 Bush for a billion dollars for the n C? I 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.720 you know, I mean, that's who does that. I didn't know. 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:46.519 I mean the power that I had and abused. I 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.919 didn't know it. And it's a shame. I'll never have 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:53.880 that power again. UM. And I know that, I know 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.320 that with certainty, and there is a part of me 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:01.160 that that is extremely sad about out that, but I 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:05.319 can't change it. Um. But but I know now the 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:07.720 power that I had and and that I abused, and 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:17.479 so UM, that's that's that's a shame. This was wide ranging, honest. Raw. 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:20.920 The language is raw too, by the way, even a 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.920 little emotional at times. Here it is my conversation with 0:01:25.040 --> 0:01:28.720 Lance Armstrong. That sounded that sounded like a good start. 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.240 That's yeah. I won't tell you how I've started the 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.399 interview without pushing the red button before. That's a little embarrassing, 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:39.039 but it has happened. All right, man, here we go, 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:44.920 Here we go. So we made about thirty four years ago, 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.760 I'm doing Scholastic Sports America. Go down to visit this 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:49.880 kid in plan Out, Texas. You don't even know that 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:54.120 cycling is going to be your sport yet, but there 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:58.160 was something about this kid and his mom. You had 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:01.520 a drive, You had an edge, You had a belief 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:03.240 in yourself. Your mom had a belief in you, and 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:05.080 she was tough and resilient. I said, I don't know 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.840 where this guy's going, but he's going somewhere, and it's 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:12.440 gonna be interesting to see where. I don't have that 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:15.680 sense that often. Did you have any sense that you 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:22.680 were going somewhere interesting? I mean I didn't. God, maybe 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:25.560 in in on some level, but I didn't know where 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.000 in the world it would take me, and I certainly 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.240 didn't know that I would, to your point, um, because 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:35.640 you were there covering a young try athlete, right, I 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:37.880 didn't know that that would lead me to the bike 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.800 and the Olympic Games and onto a career professional cycling. 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:46.440 But um, that's that belief them. I don't. No one 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:49.440 knows specifically where we're headed. I mean, it's just unknowable. 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:51.800 It's foolish to trying to think that here's where I'm 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:54.000 headed specifically. But did you have a sense though Lance 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:57.680 only child and raised by your mom, there were some 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.240 tough moments in the household that you've written about. Did 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:02.880 you have a sense that you were headed somewhere though, 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:07.359 somewhere important to do something big? I mean, if you yeah, 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:10.080 I would have. Uh, I think what what what you 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.480 felt was probably, I mean nobody can say it with 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:16.760 a confidence, but I was, Yeah, I was. I didn't 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:18.760 know what scale or what level that would be on, 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:23.120 but I was. I was pretty sure that that. I 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:27.799 was sure, and I I never, um, you know, I 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.440 saw myself going off to college and getting a job. 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:35.000 I mean I was sure enough that I knew that 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:39.160 that was gonna be my job you've written a little 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.840 bit about it. Where do you think that that drive 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:47.240 and that edge comes from that served you well to 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.800 get to where you went. You know, it's it was 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:54.960 this mix of um of anger as a young you know, 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:57.320 as you alluded to it, you know, growing up with 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:03.320 mom um um and I've never met my father had 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:08.880 a stepfather that wasn't a good fit uh for her 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.360 and I UM, and so there was there was this 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:15.280 edge to it, um, but also I you know, at 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:16.720 the end of the day, like you could be as 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:19.279 mad as you want or as motivated or as is 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.880 angry to to to um to prove people wrong, but 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:24.560 at the end of the day, this is a hard game, 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.240 right And you were you were covering a young tray 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:29.960 athlete that that even at a young age fifteen sixteen 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.680 years old, that was three or four hours a day 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.560 of training, you know, between swim practice and track practice 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:37.640 and riding your bike as much as you could. You know, 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.000 it added up. So you gotta love it and I 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.640 always did like that was um no part of me 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:47.400 ever And and you know, maybe maybe a miserable day 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:49.200 in the in the Alps when you got to get 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:52.119 out there, but there's every day that it was time 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.760 to go to work. I was like, fuck, yeah, let's 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:56.480 go to work. This is this is this is fun. 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.760 Like I would do this for free. Yeah. At the 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:01.320 time me, you were trying to make a few bucks 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:03.640 and and keep gas and whatever. Call was kind of 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:06.200 a beat up but still pretty cool Alfa Romeo, which 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:07.919 was an interesting car for Texas. But I mean I 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.120 thought this, you know, it was very much hand to 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:12.440 mouth man and you you earned every scrap of that. 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:14.640 In those early days before I realized how much money 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.560 cyclists made, well, I was. I was. I thought I 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:20.040 was rich. You know, I'd go off to I had 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.240 a little bit of sponsorship money, but I was you know, 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:25.120 I was a sixteen year old kid. I'd fly off 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:29.360 almost every weekend to compete, mostly domestically, but some trips 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:34.040 twice to Venezuela, a couple of times to Bermuda, Mexico, 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:38.039 um the Bahamas, and so you know, i'd come home 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:41.599 with If I came home with in prize money, I 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.839 was like, Oh, where's where's the yacht that I'm gonna buy? 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:46.520 Like I was convinced, and I thought that was a 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:50.240 lot of money. But the reality is I was just Uh. 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:54.080 And my mom we lived very simply, um, and she 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.120 worked and worked hard her whole life. Um, But it 0:05:58.160 --> 0:05:59.640 was just a little bit of relief for her, you know, 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.000 if I needed a car or gas in the car, 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.719 or haircut or go out, have you know, burgers with 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.560 my buddies. Like you know, I have young kids. They're 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:10.880 always asking me from a dad venmom, twenty bucks, forty bucks, 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.080 you know, but you know, money, money, money, I'm like, 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:15.160 so I didn't, you know, I didn't have obviously we 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.839 didn't have venmo, but I didn't. It freed up that 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.400 whole part of of her and eyes dynamic. Um, but 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:23.840 it was my and my buddies thought I was rich, dude. 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:29.360 That was the funny thing. You know. I was fourteen 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:31.200 when my dad was diagnosed with cancer, and he died 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:34.000 when I was sixteen, So some lessons were learned by that. 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:40.120 Time is precious. We're guaranteed nothing. You always seemed from 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:41.760 the time I met you, and you're about that same 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.880 age that you were in a hurry. You didn't believe 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:46.720 the time was there to be wasted. I wonder Lance 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:48.720 if you had any kind of sense. It's pretty heavy question, 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:51.680 but any sense deep down that that something was coming 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.719 where you're gonna realize that you're guaranteed nothing. And the 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.279 time could be pretty damn precious in this life because 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:58.960 you were in a hurry from the time I met 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.920 you back at that age, right, Uh, you're right and 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:05.760 and and Chris, you you knew me during my cancer 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.760 journey and at that point, so I didn't have that 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.160 sense and I was in a hurry and the only 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:15.520 time that life has really and this is the silver lining, uh, 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:17.760 to to a diagnosis and to going through this whole 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:22.400 process of of fighting for your life. You know, then yes, 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:27.520 everything slows down and you everything smells different, everything looks different, 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:32.720 friends seem different. Um. But by by golly, um, you 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.520 get better, you get back, you get put back into 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:40.240 the world, and and it's just inevitable. Life speeds up 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:45.320 and and and even to this day, um Um, life 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:48.280 moves fast. And that's and then now I'm fifty years old. 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:52.400 You're gonna wait a minute, did I just make the 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:54.600 turn and I'm the back nine? Or am I? Like? 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:57.840 You know, just get into the cart girl, that's gonna 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.280 serve me about ka Sota on fifteen? Like which which 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:02.600 which part of the round? Am I on, and so 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:06.280 it's it's it's a damn good point. And I don't 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:09.720 think I don't I don't think anybody ever masters that. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:14.440 I mean maybe maybe, I don't know. You know, some 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:18.440 of these elevated individuals have mastered it. But boy, life 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:23.880 life moves quick and and um and yet I haven't 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:26.440 figured out a way to balance it and slow it 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:31.080 down and um and and truly cherished and look at 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.200 five kids, been through a whole hell of a lot, 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:37.920 tons of reflection, tons of mistakes that I've learned from 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:41.840 and and um, it's it's a it's a it's not 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:44.319 a I started saying it was struggle. It's really a journey, 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:46.400 like just trying to figure out. And I love following 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:49.880 actually follow a lot of your stuff on on Instagram, 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.600 just whether it's through meditation, breathwork. I do think these 0:08:53.640 --> 0:09:00.680 things help. Um, I don't practice those regularly, but um, man, 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.120 if you figure it out, especially at this point in 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:09.120 my life, like I would love. I really feel like, um, yeah, 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:10.760 you know, the story is what it is, and I'm 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:12.800 sure we'll get into some of it or a lot 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:16.959 of it. Um, but boy, I kind of I feel 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:20.080 like I've got a stride again, and and that's the 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:23.000 time where you're like, okay, man, you were at one 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:24.720 point one of the biggest athletes in the world, and 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:28.400 then everybody said, okay, you're done, you're canceled, and you 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:32.040 hung in there and you were able to get that stride. 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.360 That's the time when you want to say, wait a minutumue. Now, 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:37.600 now's the time you need to slow the funk down 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:41.880 and appreciate this because not only did you hang in there, 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:46.800 but the world. Okay, the world gave you an opportunity 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.760 to get that stride back. Like if I get to 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:51.200 the end of my life and I look back and 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:55.679 I think, what was that, Like again, I don't really remember, 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.760 that would be a loss. Yeah, you covered a lot there, 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:01.840 and as someone who's at the end of the decade 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:03.920 you just began, I hope we get more than eighteen holes. 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:06.319 I hope I get to replace sixteen or seventeen, because 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:14.839 ships sixty we call those e holes. You know, I 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.560 very often don't take the time to reflect when I 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:20.800 feel when I'm busy it's not productive to do that. 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.120 But when I sit back and reflect, I do enjoy it. 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:26.520 A lot of the time you've had such a variety 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:30.280 and then an intensity of experiences. Man, I mean, what 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.959 role does reflection play in your life right now when 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:35.240 you get a chance to slow down for a minute. 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:40.080 Totally huge, huge, And you know where I when I 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.920 think of reflection, you know, I'm really I really don't 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:47.199 think of sport. I don't think of of the mistakes 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.000 that that I made and and and many in my 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.360 generation made. I don't. I don't think a lot about that. 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:56.560 I think of of, yes, that happened, how did I 0:10:56.640 --> 0:10:58.840 handle it? How did I handle it as a champion, 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:02.959 as a man, as as an idol um. I think 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:06.479 a lot about that, And then I think about um, 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.680 my children and and having And it's been interesting because 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:11.920 I have two sets of kids. I've got of course 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.960 Lucas twenty one, Grayson Isabelle at both nineteen, and then 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:16.960 I've got Max and Olivia who are twelve and eleven. 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:20.880 So I've had some sort of two chances to to 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:24.480 be a father. Um. Tons of reflection on that, and 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:28.400 I think, you know, and again to to the it 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:30.280 is a benefit. It has been a benefit to have 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:34.840 another chance at it. It's just a different go round, um, 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.319 and not not that anything went wrong with the first one, 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:41.120 but you know, at home more and more present. Um, 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.480 just just a better dad. Uh. And then in my relationships, 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:51.280 you know, whether it's with Anna, m friends, I think, look, relationships, marriages, partnership, 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.840 what do you want to call him? Fucking complicated? And 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.360 and I've not, Um, you know, Anna and I've been 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:01.360 together for gosh, almost thirteen years now, and it's been 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.080 a wild ride. You know, this woman came into we 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.640 came into each other's lives at the peak and then 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.160 we went straight to the bottom. And for us to 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:12.280 to to navigate our way out of this and be 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.840 closer than ever. Um, that that one I think is 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:20.040 the most and not to minimize the others, but that 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:26.040 piece and really honoring that is reflection has been hugely important. Yeah, 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.640 that's something to be tremendously proud of on both of 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.559 your parts. It's right, it is sucking hard sometimes and 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:34.240 it's not meant to be easy, and it isn't. But 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:36.280 be proud of the fact that you guys have had 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.640 those different chapters and or as strong as you are. 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:40.679 You mentioned that's an interesting way to put it. I 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.760 haven't thought about that, but almost two different fatherhoods, I mean, 0:12:43.840 --> 0:12:45.400 Luke is old enough to have been on the podium 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:47.280 at the Tour of France in Paris. He writtnessed that 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.080 kind of those chapters as a kid, Um, your daughter 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:53.319 is not so much. And then now, um, your younger 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.320 kids come along sort of after the fact. So everybody 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:58.080 wants to know. I'm sure you get asked, what do 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:00.360 you tell him? How do you reflect the lessons you've learned, 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.280 the mistakes you've made, because that's what parenthood is about, right, 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:09.319 teaching them the lessons you learn yourself. Complicated stuff though, right, 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:14.040 very very very complicated in my older ones, Um live 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:18.160 through it. I mean Luke was you know, Luke was 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:20.520 fourteen years old. The girls were twelve, so that this 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:25.280 was this was you know, fourteen year old kids, Uh, 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.599 either see the newspaper that their parents just read or 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.559 you know, watch over their parents shoulder while they're watching 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.720 the Oprah or whatever. And so that was real time, right, 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:37.280 So that was that was man all hands on deck, 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:39.960 dealing with the school, dealing with school counselors, talking to 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:43.720 other parents, talking to other kids, so real time, and 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:47.760 and helping them navigate this fall from grace and it's 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:49.720 and and I and I speak about this a lot actually, 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.040 because it's my younger ones were alive. They were very 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.880 very small, obviously, not seeing the newspaper, reading anything, or 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.480 watching Oprah. But and this is what I speak to, 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.440 is that we live in a generation where everything is forever. 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.640 So while my my younger ones didn't live through it, 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.200 they weren't in school. You know, nobody say anything in 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.960 the hallways. Um, they're gonna grow into it. They're gonna 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:18.560 grow up there that it's already happened. People say, oh, yeah, wait, 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.800 your dad, your dad's that guy. And it's not a 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:25.960 that's very very rare, thank god. Um. But I'd be 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.120 a fool if I sat here and said Max Armstrong, 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.320 who's twelve, is never gonna watch one of his dad's interviews. 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:37.440 He's never gonna watch Oprah Winfrey. You know, they will 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.920 grow into it. And so yeah, I've I've kept the 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.680 same approach with all the kids. I think. You know, 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:49.360 my older ones are are just absolutely flourishing. Um. But 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.280 there will be a time where those the younger ones 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.920 want to say, wait a minute, I was too young, 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.680 but can we just go back there and what happened again? 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:02.520 Are you ready for that? Totally. Absolutely. I've I've said 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.000 from it'll be same policy I had with with Luke 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.480 Rays and Isabel is that we're gonna have a conversation 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.480 and it and it's not a one time conversation, it's 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:16.200 an ongoing conversation. So you know, I'll answer any question 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:19.240 and talk to you about this anytime forever. Right, there's 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.800 an open door policy. And so um, it hasn't come 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.040 up with the little ones. And maybe it's you know, 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:30.200 as happens in society and and sort of in culture. Uh, 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:35.440 not to diminish or erase the misdeeds that I have lived. Um, 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:42.200 but things soften and and um, it'll it'll probably be 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.720 a smaller story in the grand scheme for their lives, 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:48.560 but it's still a story. And and and I think 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.480 the most powerful and important thing I can do for 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.640 them is just say, hey, anytime you want to talk 0:15:54.680 --> 0:16:00.960 about this, let's do it. You were bull of survivorship 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.720 and you're a You're a magnet for so many people. 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:07.200 I did witness this in some small degree, regular folks 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:12.640 and also ultra famous, ultra accomplished legends who just wanted 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:14.960 to meet you, wanted to know you wanted a piece 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.320 of your time whenever started happening, and you realize you're right, 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.760 I'm just had here raising a bike and these people 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.040 I want to know me and they want to be 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:30.480 in my presence. That kind of just feel what there is. 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:33.680 Was there a light bulb moment we realize, oh my god, 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.960 this is intense. No, now that's the sad thing. And 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:42.000 that's when into your earlier pointer to our earlier discussion. 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.560 When life is moving that fast, there is you yea. 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.720 The memory can only capture so much and his life 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.880 is moving and it is just hyperspeed, and you know, 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:55.600 you're trying to do your job, You're trying to train, 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:57.800 there's heads of state that want to hang. There's you know, 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.280 rock stars, you name, it's for stars, fellow, all your 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:07.720 peers doesn't matter. Um, the hard drive doesn't capture those moments. 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:10.879 I mean I will have you know, my longtime manager, 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.639 Mark Higgins, you know there were times he'd say, do 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:17.159 remember that time you met so and so? Who's so 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:19.199 and so? Give you an example? Well, I mean, you know, 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:22.720 it's okay, it's okay, I know, and I should I 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:27.440 didn't capture that moment either, but it's um, I'll remember it. 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.000 But it and I'm not trying to protect anything, but 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:32.960 you're just like, no, actually, I don't remember that. Okay, 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:34.800 let me take it back to two thousand five, when 0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:36.520 you retire and there's some friends in the south of 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:40.160 France and your phone rings and it's Bono says, hey, 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:43.520 coming over for lunch. I've got some people. Bring all 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.840 the people. I do remember that. I mean, now I'm 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:48.320 driving like a minivan as a caravan. A car has 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:50.800 headed down that you know, down along the Mediterranean the 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:54.520 Bono's house, and there's like this incredible lunch and he's 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:58.199 making speeches and toasting. I mean, and that's just a 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:02.320 day in the summer for you, Like, I mean, well 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.480 that was that come on, that was after the first retirement. 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.160 That was that was That was a big deal. I okay, 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.000 at least acknowledge it was a big deal. I think 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:12.480 you're saying I've forgotten about Wait a minute. Those of 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:14.679 us who are there think about that a lot. If 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:17.760 you're a YouTube fan, and he's a wonderful friend and 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:19.960 and and he is quite the orator. I mean, he 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:23.480 you'll remember, and you know, the rose was flowing and 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.359 so everybody was everybody was that was no, no, no, no, 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.320 I'm not. I'm not forgetting that one. Good. I'm glad 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:35.080 you know you're you're various to you see the look 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.520 in people's eyes, you look into their eyes, you take 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:39.199 their measure. You had to do that as an athlete, 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.040 you do it and what you do for a living now. 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:44.879 And the look you saw in other people's eyes when 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.240 they check you out, I mean I saw some of it. 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:50.800 It was beyond respected admiration. Some it was just awe sometimes. 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:53.600 And you see that in people, and you saw it 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:57.000 for years, maybe you're too busy to notice it, but 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.600 now maybe you see different things. People's eyes, What what expressions? 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.080 What what vibe do you get from people when you 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:08.080 bump into them? Is it run the gamut? Yeah, it's 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.320 it's um. It's evolved, you know, that's it's been. And 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:15.040 I always use Oprah as although the downfall started before that, 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:18.520 that was really the um sort of coming out party 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:20.960 for the public, and that was that was January thirt 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.239 It's been, you know, we're coming on nine years and 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:33.040 so it has evolved and um it uh it um 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:35.959 I've alway I've been no matter what, even early on, 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.760 no matter what, I've only had one negative reaction, which 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:42.119 was covered pretty well in the ESPN thirty for thirty. 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:45.320 But you know, it didn't need to be a bunch 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:48.440 of people standing up at a bar going fuck you. Right. 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:50.840 We all know when you're sitting on a plane and 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:52.640 the guy next to you his and instaid a word. 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:54.560 You know, in his mind is going fuck this guy. 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:59.280 We know so, but I have always been okay with that. 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.280 I didn't you know, nobody's you know, votes for that. 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:07.520 But look, I and it's it's more of an understanding 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.640 that that so many people were along for this ride, 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:13.640 in this journey, that um, there was bound to be 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.320 some hurt feelings, a lot of hurt feelings and and 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:21.840 a lot of um um anger. And so I was. 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:26.680 I decided very early on that my world will change 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.600 forever and and I better be a tough guy and 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:32.399 a big all these things I've ever wanted to be 0:20:32.520 --> 0:20:35.960 a you know, tough and and and and resilient all 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.760 this ship now is the time. And and I was, 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:41.840 and and I accepted. How is that different? How is 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.800 that toughness a resilient different than than having to bounce 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:46.720 back after a long day in the bike or meet 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:49.600 the attacks on the slopes about the west. How is 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.320 it different or is it all that it's different? That 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.760 was easy, and upon reflection, that was really those are 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:59.960 physically hard days and you're tired. But and and I well, 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:02.280 I mean we had rough days on the bike with 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:06.320 the public. We were not certainly not the most popular. 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.359 Um but I I just those are easy days compared 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:13.520 to now sometimes uh yeah, yeah, and when but I 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:16.520 should say it is evolved, you know. And I more 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.440 and more as I walked through my day, I encounter 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:21.840 a lot of folks that that will they'll they'll take 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:24.200 you through the whole journey. Man. Let me tell you something. 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.600 I was your biggest fan, and I fucking hated you. 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:28.119 And then you know, I listened to a couple of 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:30.240 your podcast. I see the stuff you're doing, and I 0:21:30.280 --> 0:21:32.280 see the way you act, I see the things you say. 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:34.360 You know, I think I'm I think I'm okay. Now 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:36.880 you know, it's just and by the way I mean 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:41.840 it sounds to its course. Absolutely, that's the cool thing 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:45.280 like that, because I do have more time, right those 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:48.000 days which you experienced, some of you don't have any time. 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:49.880 You know, somebody's trying to tell you some great story 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.880 and you're like, hey, thanks, gotta go. Whereas now it's 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:56.879 like tell me, walk me through it. And it's just 0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:02.119 a different look in a different connection with other people. Um, 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:05.040