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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Thursday, December fourth, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Littleton. I am co

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Speaker 1: editor in chief of Variety alongside Ramin Setuda. I'm in

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Speaker 1: La He's in New York, and Vriety has reporters around

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Speaker 1: the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we'll hear from Brooks Zog, executive director of the Faith

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Speaker 1: and Media Initiative. That initiative is backed by a broad

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Speaker 1: coalition of organizations that are studying how faith and spirituality

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Speaker 1: are depicted in pop culture, and Variety's Mark Malkin talks

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Speaker 1: to Richard gear who is doing his own work on

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Speaker 1: this subject with the new feature documentary about the Dali

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Speaker 1: Lama Wisdom of Happiness. But before we get to that,

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Speaker 1: here are a few headlines just in this morning that

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Speaker 1: you need to know. There was chatter on Wednesday that

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Speaker 1: Paramounts Gods is about to get more aggressive in its

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Speaker 1: pursuit of Warner Brothers Discovery. We got confirmation of that

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Speaker 1: this morning with word that Paramount has sent a letter

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Speaker 1: to WBD CEO David Zaslov, claiming that the bidding process

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Speaker 1: has been steered toward Netflix, which is one of three

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Speaker 1: contenders for the studio, alongside Paramount and Comcast. The Paramount

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Speaker 1: letter accused Warner Brothers Discovery of having embarked on a

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Speaker 1: myopic process with the predetermined outcome that favors a single bidder.

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Speaker 1: Much more to come on that. Meanwhile, Paramount continues to

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Speaker 1: add creative firepower to the studio. It's inked abroad Film

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Speaker 1: and TV deal with Wicked and Wicked for Good director

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Speaker 1: John m chu. Hugh Laurie has joined the cast of

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Speaker 1: Apple TV's Tehran for season three. The drama bows on

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Speaker 1: January ninth, and has already been renewed for a fourth season.

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Speaker 1: Rest in peace to two great guitar players, Steve Cropper

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Speaker 1: and Phil Upchurch. Crapper was such a big personality in

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Speaker 1: the HBO docuseries Stax Soulville, USA. Upchurch worked with Quincy Jones,

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Speaker 1: Curtis Mayfield, and Michael Jackson, among many others over a

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Speaker 1: long career in jazz and pop. Thanks to both for

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Speaker 1: all those great guitar licks. All of these stories and

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Speaker 1: so much more can be found on Variety Dot com

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Speaker 1: right now. Now it's time for conversations with industry leaders

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Speaker 1: and writing journalists about news and trends in show business.

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Speaker 1: Next up, we'll hear from Brooks Zog, executive director of

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Speaker 1: the Faith and Media Initiative. She discusses the group's work

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Speaker 1: to help influence more nuanced portrayals of spirituality and people

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Speaker 1: of faith in media. Part of that initiative will be

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Speaker 1: expressed later tonight at Variety's second annual Faith and Spirituality

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Speaker 1: Honors in Beverly Hills. Thank you so much for joining

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Speaker 1: me here today in the restaurant of the Edition Hotel

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Speaker 1: in West Hollywood. It's closed and they graciously have allowed

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Speaker 1: us some space.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Thrilled to be here with Arriet. We are talking today

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Speaker 1: because later tonight, Thursday night, Variety will host its second

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Speaker 1: annual Faith in Spirituality Honors in Beverly Hills. We have

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Speaker 1: a great program of awards that recognize people that do

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Speaker 1: the thoughtful work of incorporating issues of faith and spirituality

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Speaker 1: into the fabric of their program, not as a sermon,

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Speaker 1: not as a moment on the mountaintop to preach, but

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Speaker 1: to weave it in as a normal, everyday part of

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Speaker 1: the lives of the characters that they are writing about.

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Speaker 1: Your organization really has put a lot of thought, a

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Speaker 1: lot of energy, a lot of money and resources into

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Speaker 1: research and some advocacy to reclaim the spiritual life of

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Speaker 1: America in much of the programming that America and now

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Speaker 1: the world watches and the world consumes. So with that

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Speaker 1: long preamble, Brook, let's talk about why it's important that

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Speaker 1: you be here in Hollywood to talk to the heart

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Speaker 1: of the creative community.

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Speaker 2: And like you said, we've invested in a lot of

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Speaker 2: research or a third party expert to understand it feels

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Speaker 2: oftentimes like faith and spirituality has been portrayed negatively or

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Speaker 2: kind of leaning on stereotypes. Is that actually true? And

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Speaker 2: do people care? And what we found is that for

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Speaker 2: many years it has been, like you said, either absent

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Speaker 2: or it's been kind of tropes and stereotypes that are

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Speaker 2: sometimes true in religion, but oftentimes not reflective of the

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Speaker 2: true lived experience of people of faith. And we really

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Speaker 2: wanted to become an advocate for raising awareness on the

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Speaker 2: importance of covering and talking about and exploring what spirituality means,

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Speaker 2: because in fact, in the research we've learned it's deeply

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Speaker 2: important to many many people. And when you understand that's

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Speaker 2: a lens in which many people use to make meaning

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Speaker 2: of their life and how they explore purpose, how they

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Speaker 2: overcome hardship and trials, it's a very very rich way

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Speaker 2: to add depth to stories. And what our goal was

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Speaker 2: is to just help raise that knowledge and though this

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Speaker 2: market needs and interest to both newsrooms and studios to

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Speaker 2: be aware of and confident in covering a very complex topic.

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Speaker 2: And the reason why it's important for us to partner

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Speaker 2: with a variety and do this in Hollywood is Hollywood

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Speaker 2: Shapes reflects what culture is. Hollywood reflects what matters to

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Speaker 2: society today. As much as research is important, awards for

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Speaker 2: excellence and showing and modeling what is great is a

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Speaker 2: huge part of our strategy.

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Speaker 1: I just want to emphasize one of our Honorez's Bridget Everett.

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Speaker 1: Theeves are and creator of the show Somebody Somewhere, which

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Speaker 1: is again the way the characters search for purpose and

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Speaker 1: meaning in her life, and her definition of spirituality was different,

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Speaker 1: her definition of family was different and not what people

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Speaker 1: would stereotypically think of. Well, a Faith and Spirituality initiative

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Speaker 1: is going to want to impose a certain way of thinking.

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Speaker 1: What I've been impressed by is the depth of the

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Speaker 1: serious research that you're doing with organizations like the Hairs

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Speaker 1: Poll and really trying to understand attitudes of the many

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Speaker 1: generations that make up our world these days. And it's important.

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Speaker 1: But also that you came in saying we want a

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Speaker 1: array of faiths represented. Let's talk more about the Family

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Speaker 1: Initiative and tell me what sparked it.

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Speaker 2: So there are several key stakeholders who involved. The first

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Speaker 2: group that put money into this was the Church of

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Speaker 2: Jesus Christ of latterday Saints, who actually cares the many

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Speaker 2: of them know them as the Mormons. They care very

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Speaker 2: deeply about freedom of religions. They've invested a lot, they

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Speaker 2: own media companies, And what we've learned is most people

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Speaker 2: actually care deeply about this. And the other thing is

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Speaker 2: for people who are looking for purpose and meaning, we

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Speaker 2: hope that the narrative that they get is maybe broader

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Speaker 2: than what.

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Speaker 1: They've typically received.

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Speaker 2: So there's no proselytization agenda of And then we've received

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Speaker 2: partners like Fetzer Institute as a major funding partner, as

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Speaker 2: well as other individuals from different faith traditions, who cared

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Speaker 2: deeply about the way that they are portrayed. We have

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Speaker 2: a coalition of over one hundred people from Pillars Fund

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Speaker 2: to Princeton to paramount individuals who cared usc Diane Winstony,

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Speaker 2: who runs the Night Center's Religion and Media Center. So

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Speaker 2: we have individuals all over the country who've been working

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Speaker 2: on this individually, that have come together as a coalition

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Speaker 2: that are helping us identify how can we help improve

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Speaker 2: fates portrayal and media. You touched on something earlier about

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Speaker 2: recognizing different films like Somebody Somewhere, and I think a

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Speaker 2: show that comes to mind for me from Israel was

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Speaker 2: I Always Butcher the Name Stizzle, which I watched. I

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Speaker 2: wept through that film because I identified with themes that

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Speaker 2: were so important to them, around family, around motherhood, around

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Speaker 2: the complex nature of finding your way and looking a

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Speaker 2: little different than maybe what kind of the community thinks.

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Speaker 2: I think that was true if we are Lady pardon

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Speaker 2: which also I laughed out loud, it was. They were

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Speaker 2: very universal themes.

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Speaker 1: Or as we go into what I think of as

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Speaker 1: the roaring twenties of the twenty first century, with just

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Speaker 1: massive accelerated change, it's no surprise that people are seeking.

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Speaker 1: By my unofficial poll on Sundays, lately, the pews have

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Speaker 1: been packed in my chain and maybe there is something

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Speaker 1: about gen Z that is perhaps a little more open

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Speaker 1: to all forms of trying to commune with something larger

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Speaker 1: in the universe.

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Speaker 2: Well, Harris did a United States poll in September, so

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Speaker 2: it's very current reflective of how people feel today. Seventy

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Speaker 2: six percent of that audience, reflective of this country identified

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Speaker 2: as religious, spiritual, or person of faith. That's over three

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Speaker 2: quarters of this country. When we looked at that across

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Speaker 2: party lines and across age, it was universally important. So

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Speaker 2: from a democratic perspective it was seventy two percent, and

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Speaker 2: a Republican was eighty six. Independent was seventy one percent,

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Speaker 2: so seventies up to high eighties. When we looked at age,

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Speaker 2: gen Z was seventy seven percent and millennials for seventy

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Speaker 2: eight and boomers were seventy three. So again it was

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Speaker 2: to make a note that while we don't talk about this,

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Speaker 2: this is universally important, and rather than seeing this as

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Speaker 2: a great divider, it is a great unifier and a

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Speaker 2: great way for us to no one and understand our neighbors

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Speaker 2: also care about these things, and it's a great way

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Speaker 2: to understand how people are making meanings their life. And

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Speaker 2: it is across party lines and across eight and I

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Speaker 2: think there is a huge revival in terms of people

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Speaker 2: looking for faith and spiritual traditions that give added purpose

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Speaker 2: and meaning to their lives.

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Speaker 1: Seeing these generational change in attitudes, I have to believe

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Speaker 1: that it has something to do with there's just so

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Speaker 1: much more content at your fingertips if you are curious,

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Speaker 1: if you are a seeker, you don't have to go

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Speaker 1: very far from your phone to find all manner of

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Speaker 1: info and avenues to explore. Is that's got to be

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Speaker 1: having an impact.

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Speaker 2: One hundred percent. I think there's so much content to consume,

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Speaker 2: and that's why we want to be able to ensure

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Speaker 2: that whenever it's possible and relevant, that we incorporate this

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Speaker 2: in a meaningful way so that people just have a

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Speaker 2: much deeper, expanded view of the nuance and the complexity

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Speaker 2: of these types of topics. So one of the films

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Speaker 2: that we recognize that's as Chief of War and well,

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Speaker 2: that's not about a particular religion, per Se did a

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Speaker 2: beautiful job of showing some people who use religion or

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Speaker 2: prophecy or the belief in a negative way, or to

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Speaker 2: use it to cause harm. But with the majority of

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Speaker 2: people on those islands, that was the way that they

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Speaker 2: gave purpose and meaning. It informed their traditions, It informed

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Speaker 2: why they were doing what they were doing. It was

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Speaker 2: a binder for them as families.

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Speaker 1: You can move people through storytelling. I know this is

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Speaker 1: a hard question, but five years, ten years, what does

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Speaker 1: your home run success look like? For FAMI and for

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Speaker 1: the world.

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Speaker 2: I think a great analogy is Glad. Glad has done

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Speaker 2: a tremendous job over many, many years to improve the

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Speaker 2: way the LGBTQ community has been portrayed through characters, character development,

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Speaker 2: and we see that great milestones over many, many years

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Speaker 2: of hard work, and we've actually talked with them to

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Speaker 2: understand how they have found great success. And I think

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Speaker 2: for us, this is a long game. This is a

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Speaker 2: big culture change and to overcome people's fears of tackling

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Speaker 2: this that people of faith are portrayed as thoughtful, complex

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Speaker 2: people navigating their lives and everyday stories, and that people

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Speaker 2: have the confidence to do this and we see it regularly,

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Speaker 2: so I think we don't expect this to happen overnight,

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Speaker 2: but we do hope that over the next ten years

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Speaker 2: that this is more and more common and that the

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Speaker 2: shows that include this find great commercial success. Another thing

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Speaker 2: that we're learning is that comedy done thoughtfully is another

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Speaker 2: tremendous way disarm people and cover very complex, hard things.

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Speaker 2: When it comes to faith, is a very meaningful way

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Speaker 2: to connect with audience. So we're going to continue to

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Speaker 2: unveil lots of insights and research again to be a

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Speaker 2: model for what kind of stories, what kind of clips,

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Speaker 2: what kind of moments and time and experiences do audiences

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Speaker 2: resonate with in the storytelling.

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Speaker 1: Brook, thank you so much for this discussion. I appreciate

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Speaker 1: all of the intention and the work that you've done.

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Speaker 1: Media is such a powerful platform and it's important how

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Speaker 1: all aspects of life are portrayed.

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Speaker 2: If I could just finish with one story. When we

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Speaker 2: launched our first round of research, it was at Concordia

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Speaker 2: with Mike Allen, who's the founder of Axios, and he

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Speaker 2: said to a whole group of newsroom people and leaders

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Speaker 2: from around the world, he just said, you know, we

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Speaker 2: cover in the news a lot of complicated topics. We

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Speaker 2: cover war, we cover politics, we cover economics, we cover sexuality.

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Speaker 2: All of those are complicated, but we shy away from

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Speaker 2: religion and faith because it feels complex. But faith fluency

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Speaker 2: is essential for society to be united and understand each other.

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Speaker 2: And we should not be afraid of something because we

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Speaker 2: cover all of the other complicated things. We shouldn't be

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Speaker 2: afraid from this because it is universal and a great

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Speaker 2: connector if we do it well.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Brooke. And now, sticking with the theme of

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Speaker 1: the search for meaning and purpose, here's Variety's Mark Malcolm.

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Speaker 1: He's got highlights from his recent conversation with Richard Gear

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Speaker 1: about his new documentary on the Tibetan Buddhist leader, Wisdom

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Speaker 1: of Happiness.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Cynthia. I caught up with Richard Gear early this

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Speaker 3: week to talk about his documentary about the Dali Lama,

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Speaker 3: Wisdom of Happiness. The film Gear serves as executive producer,

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Speaker 3: chronicles the ninety year old Dali Lama's life. It features

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Speaker 3: the Nobel Peace Prize winner speaking directly into the camera

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Speaker 3: as if he's having a one on one conversation with

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Speaker 3: the viewer. It is quite intimate. Throughout the film, the

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Speaker 3: Dalai Lama recalls his childhood and family memories. He also

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Speaker 3: offers guidance about the search for happiness and his belief

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Speaker 3: that compassion and being of service are the key to

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Speaker 3: achieving peace of mind. Gear says the project started as

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Speaker 3: a celebration to mark the Dali Lama's ninetieth birthday.

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Speaker 4: I was thinking, yes, this is the center of this

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Speaker 4: celebration of an extraordinary life. But then in the meantime,

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Speaker 4: the world has gotten so much crazier.

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Speaker 5: That's just taken on a different kind of life today,

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Speaker 5: that there is a there's a medicinal quality I think

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Speaker 5: to this film in a time where there's a deep sickness.

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Speaker 3: Gear explains that the Dali Lama suggests that the film's

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Speaker 3: viewers take a deep breath, step back and question ourselves.

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Speaker 4: Ran a very wrong track here, and it's gotten worse

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Speaker 4: over the last years.

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Speaker 6: That just even a sense of basic kindness is lacking,

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Speaker 6: the way people fought to each other language and obviously

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Speaker 6: this comes from our leaders, especially the one we have now.

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Speaker 3: For more of my chat with Gear, he also opens

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Speaker 3: up about being banned from the Oscars for twenty years.

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Speaker 3: Check out my column Just for Variety at Variety dot com.

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Speaker 1: As we close out today's episode, here's a few things

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Speaker 1: we're watching for The Red Sea Film Festival kicks off

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Speaker 1: today in Jeeds, Saudi Arabia. We'll have a report on

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Speaker 1: Monday from Alex Ritman, Variety's London bureau chief, who is

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Speaker 1: covering the festival for US Golden Globe Award nominations are

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Speaker 1: out on Monday. Will one battle after another maintain its

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Speaker 1: Kudo's momentum we'll find out. Of course, the big event

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Speaker 1: next week comes on Wednesday, when the Variety's staff hosts

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Speaker 1: our third annual Cookie Exchange. We love to hear from

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Speaker 1: our listeners, so please send thoughts, gripes, and other feedback

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Speaker 1: about Daily Variety to podcasts at Variety dot com Before

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Speaker 1: we go. Congrats to Doug Hersog and Patrick Vihan. They've

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Speaker 1: joined the Board of Comic Relief. That nonprofit is definitely

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Speaker 1: becoming more active under CEO Michelle Gainless, who was appointed

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Speaker 1: in January. Thanks for listening. This episode was written and

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Speaker 1: reported by me Cynthia Littleton, with contributions from Mark Malcolm

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Speaker 1: Stick's Next Hick Picks. Please leave us a review at

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Speaker 1: the podcast platform of your choice, and please tune in

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Speaker 1: Monday for another episode of Daily Variety,