WEBVTT - TechStuff Gets MegaUploaded 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:05.360 Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:13.960 stuff works dot com. Hello everyone, and welcome to tech stuff. 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:15.640 My name is Chris Polette and I am an editor 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.239 at how stuff works dot com, stating incrust from me 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:24.680 as usual as senior writer Jonathan st Hey. There, So, um, today, 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:29.720 we wanted to talk about a controversial subject, a couple 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:32.960 of different controversial subjects. Right, there's a mega controversy, yes, 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:37.720 mega upload, and uh, many of you have probably heard 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:39.800 about mega upload. Some of you may have even used 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:42.120 the service. Some of you may be going to mega 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:44.440 upload dot com right now and wondering if you're in 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.839 trouble because you see that there's a big takedown notice 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:51.600 where the site used to be. But we wanted to 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:54.560 talk about what it is, what the controversy is around it, 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:58.680 what the various legal issues are surrounding it, and a 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:03.120 lot about the Uh. I guess flamboyant is an appropriate word, 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:11.240 uh head of mega upload Kim dot com. Yes, um, yeah, 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:14.360 So I guess we can start off why not at 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:18.119 the beginning, back in two thousand five Kim dot com. 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:20.559 And when I say at the beginning, I'll go back 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:22.480 further than this later on and we talk about the 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:28.160 legal issues, but he founded a site. UH turned out 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:30.480 to be a family of sites, but we tend to 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.240 just call it mega upload. And the idea behind this 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:40.520 was kind of like a very specific implementation of cloud storage. 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:46.920 So the idea was that users could upload files to 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.280 this service, mega upload, and then allow other people to 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:55.520 download those files and on its own. If that's all 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:59.520 we say, that's not there's nothing controversial about that. That's 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:05.680 just a method of distributing data. The problem comes in 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:08.520 as to the nature of that data and whether or 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:13.880 not that data had any intellectual property rights associated with it. 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:17.240 That perhaps the user who uploaded the file did not 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:22.280 have access to our authorization to uh to distribute that file, 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:25.120 and that's the crux of the problem. So mega upload 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.919 is what we call locker site, and you you create 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:31.920 a locker where you upload the files other people can 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:34.600 download them and UH. And there are some interesting things 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:39.920 about mega upload. For example, UH, uploading a file didn't 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:44.280 guarantee that file was going to be stored there forever. UH. 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:48.120 The the service would actually delete files out of its 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:53.800 storage if they were not being downloaded enough. At least 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:56.280 that was sort of the that was the allegation that 0:02:56.360 --> 0:03:00.000 the United States government made against mega upload. When building 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.280 its case, they said that in order for a file 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:05.639 to be hosted, it had to be popular, It had 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.360 to reach a certain threshold of popularity, and if people 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:10.680 stopp downloading it, the file would no longer be hosted 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:14.560 on mega upload UM. So that's kind of a way 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.480 of to conserve space. You know, the files that are 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:21.040 really popular stay available. Files no one seems to want 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.840 go away, and you don't have to worry about hosting 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:27.760 a file forever. Because of course, the more popular the 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:33.480 site got, the larger it's UM requirements were to for 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:37.000 for hosting space because I mean, these digital files are 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:41.480 taking up hard drive space somewhere on servers, so you 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:44.280 have to be able to, uh to meet that demand. 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.000 And one way of doing that is to phase out 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:53.480 any files that are not particularly sought after. Yeah. Now 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.800 you might be saying, you know, well, how is this 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:03.520 different from something like dropbox or perhaps YouTube um? And 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:07.960 there are big differences, UM, because some of the charges 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:13.240 that have been filed basically accused the people behind mega 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.279 upload UM. Kim dot com is sort of the face 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.800 of mega upload, but the he had a handful of 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:23.680 partners who were closely were you know, working on it 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.760 with him very closely. Um. So the people behind mega 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:33.640 upload have been charged with basically, um, not only providing 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.680 storage space, but knowing what was in that storage space 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:43.280 and encouraging people to upload popular content which may or 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:49.040 may not have been um, you know, stuff that violated copyright. 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.520 And and that's really that that's you know, the question. 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.080 Those are the questions that you know, how how far 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.840 did it go? Allegations. The allegations actually go so far 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.839 as to claim that the uh, the owners of mega 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:06.800 upload paid out money to people in order to encourage 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:10.560 them to upload popular files. And by popular, we're talking 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.640 about stuff that violates intellectual property. Uh. When you when 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:16.840 you just say popular, that could be anything, but in 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:21.200 the case that was brought against mega upload and its founders, 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.880 they're specifically talking about things like movies or music. Really 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.760 movies is the big one, but it's not just movies. 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.800 It's television and music as well. Saying all right, well, 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:37.120 there are people uploading entire libraries of files to your site. Uh, 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:39.440 they don't have the authorization to do that. People are 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:46.080 essentially using mega upload to perpetuate piracy, and so ultimately, 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.400 and when you look at this, you can figure out 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:54.200 there are certain industries that are very much pushing for 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:59.040 action against Mega upload. It's it's pretty safe to say 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:03.400 that this was not just a government agency saying, oh, 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:05.200 here's a bad guy, we need to go after him. 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:09.520 This these are industries that are using political pressure to 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:13.919 go after a company that they see as a threat 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.240 to their business model. Then, in itself is not necessarily 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.359 a bad thing. You want to protect your business, you know, otherwise, 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:24.360 if you don't protect your business, you go out of business. However, 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:29.760 there are some questions as to the execution of this 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:34.200 and whether or not it oversteps bounds. For example, a 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.960 mega upload we haven't mentioned this yet. It is a company. 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:41.440 It's a company that's based The company itself is based 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:45.400 out of Hong Kong. So that raises some questions because 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:50.000 it's the United States that's primarily going after Kim dot 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:54.560 Com and the other people behind Mega Upload, and the 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:58.000 United States does not have jurisdiction in Hong Kong. On 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.360 top of that, Kim dot com, um and the other 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.560 people who were rounded up we'll talk about the roundup 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:08.040 in a second. They were all in New Zealand, also 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:13.680 last I checked, not within the jurisdiction of the United States. Yeah, um, 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:17.080 pretty sure. I mean I could be wrong. It could 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:19.520 be that in the Hobbit, I'll see that, you know, 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:24.040 federal agents are knocking down the enemy's door and uh 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:30.120 and in Mirkwood spoiler alert. But it would surprise me. Um, however, 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.800 some of the company's servers were based here in the 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.840 United States. That that was one thing. Yeah, but that 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:39.800 was done on purpose. Um why was that down on purpose? Well? 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:45.160 Remember when I mentioned YouTube a few minutes ago. Um, well, YouTube, 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:51.480 from time to time people upload content to the site 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:55.080 that infringes on someone's copyright. You know, they take and 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:58.440 rip a movie and stick it on YouTube, which is 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:03.120 pretty much blatantly illegal. The thing is, what the idea 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:07.960 is that under current uh United States law, the copyright 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:10.600 owner can contact YouTube and say, hey, take that down. 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:13.680 And YouTube is supposed to take it down, and and 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:18.760 Kim Kim dot com has said that Mega Upload did that. Um. 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:21.720 Now see there there's there's what is called safe Haven, 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.679 which was part of the d m C a Digital 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:28.680 millennium right, and basically it says, hey, look, you know 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.240 you're providing the storage space online that doesn't make you 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:37.200 necessarily liable for what people do with that space. If 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:41.240 they put uh material up there that infringes upon someone's copyright, 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:43.839 as long as you take it down when you're asked 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.319 to by the copyright holder, that's not it's not your 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:48.640 fault that that people do that. What they're saying that 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:54.760 Mega upload did, however, was um basically not only uh 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:59.000 host that they didn't necessarily take it down immediately upon 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.640 being asked. They might have been selective in what they 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:06.280 took down, and they were encouraging people to post popular content. 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:11.160 So they're saying, no, you guys don't qualify for safe haven. 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:14.199 This is completely different. And they're being brought up on 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:19.840 criminal charges um, which is different than a simple lawsuit. Hey, 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.880 we're suing you because you did not take this down. Yeah. 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.760 The the d m c A is very uh it 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:28.800 lays this out in a very specific way that the 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:32.600 ideas that it will protect these service providers so that 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:36.960 they are not um shouldered with all the responsibility for 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:39.920 providing what is a valuable service to people who might 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.640 use it in ways for which it was not intended 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:46.400 or in illegal ways. Uh. So you can argue whether 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.520 or not Mega upload was intended for illegal use or not. 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:54.000 That's in fact the federal h federal officials are very 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.560 much making that argument. But UH for the d m 0:09:57.600 --> 0:09:59.720 c A to apply for that safe haven to apply, 0:10:00.640 --> 0:10:07.840 the the owners of the service cannot knowingly host illegal material. 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:10.360 That they are told about the illegal material, they have 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:13.640 to remove it. One of the allegations against Kim dot 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.440 Com and mega upload is that when they were told 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.680 about illegal material, what they would do is remove a 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:23.439 link to that illegal material, but they would not remove 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.040 the file itself. So in other words, the file still 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:30.440 exists on mega upload. They just removed whatever link was reported. Well, 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:32.679 the way mega upload worked was that if you were 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:34.920 to try and upload a file, Let's say that let's 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.160 say Chris and I have decided to UH to throw 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.640 caution to the wind and embrace our darker natures and 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:47.360 to UH to dive headfirst into the world of illicit 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:52.080 film trading online. And so Chris and I both have 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:54.480 the same idea. At the same time, we have both 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.440 decided that now is the time for us to upload 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:03.120 a copy of the Steven Spielberg Mega hit Howard the Duck, 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.560 And so Chris uploads Howard the Duck before I do, 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:11.200 because he has a better internet connection. So that Howard 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:14.240 the Duck file that specific hash gets uploaded up to 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:17.040 mega upload, and then I do the same thing. Now 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:19.440 the file that I'm using is based off the same 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.679 one that Chris made, so it's got the same data, 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:25.400 same everything. When I uploaded, mega upload looks and says, oh, 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.360 wait a minute, I've already got this file. So instead 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.920 of uploading this to your locker, why don't you, uh, 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.600 would you prefer it if we just um linked to 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.320 it and added another link to the already existing file 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.160 because it's the same information. This way, you don't have 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.880 to upload the whole thing. You just add the link. 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.480 And you say, because you don't want to have to, 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:47.600 you know, come up your internet connection all that time, 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:50.000 or I say, in this case, because it's using my example, 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:53.479 I said, sure, just put the link in. Well. The complaint, 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.600 one of the complaints that the FEDS made against mega 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:01.080 upload is that if you were the content owner, if 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.520 you're the intellectual property rights owner of Howard the Duck 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.280 of the film Howard the Duck, and you wanted to 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.640 protect it, and you saw that there was a link 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:14.440 to a mega upload locker that contained that movie. You 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.360 would send that complaint to Mega upload and then they 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:22.520 would apparently remove the link, the specific link you mentioned. However, 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.079 I also have a link to that content. It's a 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:30.120 different link. It's the same file, which means that because 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:32.800 they did not delete the file itself, there's still a 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.680 pathway to get to that file. All they did was 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:39.000 close off one path, but they left another path open. 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:43.000 That's the allegation. That's what the federal federal officers are saying. 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:46.040 They're saying, well, yeah, you would remove this link, but 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.480 the file still existed and there were still other links 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:51.000 to that file, so you didn't solve the problem. All 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:55.400 you did was close one door, but there were you know, however, 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.120 other many doors open, so people could still get to 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:03.240 it and the problem was not fixed. Um. So that's 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:07.600 that's one of the main arguments here. Now. The way 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.319 this all went down was way back on January nine, 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:16.199 two twelve. Do you remember January two thousand twelve, back 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:17.920 when we were wondering if Apple was going to have 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.320 an iPad three and no idea that they would also 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:25.720 have an iPod pot iPad four that same year. Um, 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.600 that's just a light dig so on January nineteenth, the 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:35.000 Department of Justice seized the UH mega upload dot com 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.000 site and all of its family of sites like mega 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.160 video and things like that, and they shut it down 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:46.440 and they began to pursue a criminal case against the 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:52.480 owners and operators of that site. On January two thousand twelve, 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:57.600 Hong Kong Customs ended up freezing assets belonging to the 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:02.960 company and UH on that. On January twenty, in New Zealand, 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:11.000 UH New Zealand police, acting under the the direction of 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:17.320 United States federal officers, led a raid against a mansion 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:21.720 that was being leased by Kim dot com UM and 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.920 had happened to have several other Mega upload people there 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:28.120 at the time because they were celebrating his birthday, so 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:33.400 they timed it out to raid on his birthday. UH 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:40.200 they went in, they seized around seventeen million dollars worth 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:44.720 of assets, including vehicles and art, so stuff that was 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:50.200 not related directly to the website. But the federal officers 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:53.400 claimed that these are things that Kim dot com bought 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:59.360 through money laundering and other means. UM specifically that that 0:14:59.440 --> 0:15:04.160 allegation s and that Mega upload paid people to upload 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:07.840 illegal material to their site. Um and if you're wondering 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.320 how does mega upload make money, because we didn't really 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.120 talk about that. There's two ways you could be a subscriber, 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.040 but that's really the it's kind of a minor way 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:20.200 that they generate revenue. They mostly generate rate revenue through ads. Well, 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:24.120 they serve up ads over when when you're downloading, that's 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.000 when the ads get served to you. So if you 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:28.560 download a file, that's when you start seeing these ads. 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.880 So there's an incentive to provide as many downloads as 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.960 possible because the more downloads there are, the more ads 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:39.640 Mega upload serves, the more money it gets. So that's 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:43.560 where a lot of this cash came from. So uh 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:48.200 that that all went down on January and went pretty quickly, 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:53.640 but dot com And was not resting. He hired on 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:58.080 some lawyers and began to fight back against the actions 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.760 taken against him and against Mega Upload. So March five, 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.120 two thousand twelve, the United States files for an extradition 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:08.560 request for in New Zealand courts, saying we want to 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:11.920 extradite him to the US and try him there for crimes. 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.840 Keeping in mind again Hong Kong Company New Zealand resident 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.440 actually New Zealand citizen. He or he I guess resident 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.240 is the right word. He did apply for residency and 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:25.320 was granted it. He's actually German, German born. Yeah, see 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.240 what you could tell by the dot com last name. 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.960 Actually he changed that name. He changed that name partially 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:33.360 because of his his childhood. Yeah, he was. He was. 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:39.000 His original name is Kim Schmitz. And actually his his 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:43.000 past is definitely one of the reasons why there's so 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:47.360 much interest in him and why I think, uh, the 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:50.440 United States government felt fairly confident going after him because 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.520 he he is not He doesn't have a squeaky clean past. 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:58.080 He was he was tried for embezzlement. He was a 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:04.040 teenage internet sensation in a sense and like an investment sensation, 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:09.720 and was was accused of with charges of insider trading. 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:18.240 And sorry, keep trying to interrupt, I shouldn't I apologize. Um. 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:21.679 There's a great article in Wired magazine and on Wired 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.800 dot com about him that Charles Graber wrote, UM actually 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:30.960 brought the dead Tree version with me. Subscribe to to it. Um, 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:34.080 But yeah, it's definitely it's a really did you read 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.879 this in your research? UM? I thought it was a 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:42.199 really good balanced article. Because it talks about some of 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.240 his more positive you know, attempts to be more positive 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:47.720 and some of his past which has been you know, 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:49.520 not always on the up and up. I mean he 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.520 in school, he wasn't really a dedicated student. He preferred 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.560 to uh apparently likes to sleep late, and he liked 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.840 to skip class and sleep in basically, but he got 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:04.200 an interested in computers when he was a teenager and 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:06.480 and really embraced it. He took off with it. Yeah, 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:12.120 he hacked into some pretty uh pretty notable systems like NASA. 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:17.840 So he's definitely got He's definitely got a history of 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:22.560 being somewhat of a mischief maker. But he got a 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:25.480 good scare when he was a kid too. He got 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:28.960 in trouble with the law, and uh, basically I get 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:30.840 the sense or at least the article paints him and 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.160 somebody who uh say, you know, once he got done 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:36.320 with that, said hey, I I really don't want to 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:38.359 mess with this again. But the thing is too he 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.480 also and this also does not paint or did not 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:48.120 did not help him with this um recent arrest. And uh, 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:53.160 he kind of paints himself as a high roller gangster type. Yeah, 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:57.480 he's that seventeen million dollars with the art some of 0:18:57.480 --> 0:18:59.359 those cars that they see, He's like some of the 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.879 cars were hundreds of thousands of dollars in value for 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.439 an individual car. One of us associates said, Hey, you know, 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.800 we have a big car with a license plate that 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:13.120 says mafia on it. But we're we're fooling around. We're 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:16.439 not serious about that stuff, right. It's but the government 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:20.280 doing it on purpose. They're thinking of it as like 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:23.000 giant toys. He also had a helicopter. I mean, he 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:29.000 had lots of stuff. On April thirty, two thousand twelve, uh, 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:34.480 a New Zealand judge found that some of the assets 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:38.919 in that raid were improperly seized and that paperwork was 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.280 not correctly filed, and as a result, they returned about 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:46.800 seven fifty thousand dollars worth of assets to um to 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.840 dot com, who, by the way, was having some problems 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:54.480 getting bail for a while, not not having not coming 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:57.120 up with the money, but just getting the the option 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:01.320 of being able to post bail. Judge initially denied him that, 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.120 saying that because he had a helicopter and because he 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:09.320 was a man of pretty uh substantial means that he 0:20:09.560 --> 0:20:13.320 was a flight risk, and also citing his past as well, 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:16.399 uh where he had a little bit of a history 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:21.440 of hopping around a bit, uh, apparently to dodge authorities 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:27.640 and investigations. Uh. But then another judge found later they said, well, yeah, 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.120 but we seized all his assets. He's not going anywhere, 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:33.280 so we're going to grant him the option to post bail. Uh. 0:20:33.400 --> 0:20:36.840 So that that did change well April three, when he 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:38.840 got about seven or fifty thou dollars worth of the 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:41.320 assets returned, including several of the cars. So it's not 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:45.040 like it was just a big suitcase full of cash. Uh. 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.480 June two thousand twelve, a New Zealand judge ruled that 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:53.680 the search warrants were dot COM's property were not valid 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:57.640 because they were too general. Yeah. Yeah. And in addition 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:01.920 to that, there has been a question over whether um 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:05.400 or not the use of force that not not that 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:08.920 you know, they shot their way in, but they came 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:14.480 in with weapons and things that we're not supposedly allowed 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:19.240 against um citizens of New Zealand. So there is some 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:23.800 question as to that that not only were the warrants 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:27.960 not specific enough, but whether or not that the use 0:21:28.080 --> 0:21:32.199 of the techniques that they used during the raid on 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:35.480 his house, whether that was appropriate and and they kicked 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.359 the door down basically yeah, well, and dot Com for 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:42.080 his part, retreated to a safe room inside his house 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:45.760 and apparently had a couple of firearms in there with him, 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:50.159 which made it made it look not good. He didn't 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:54.480 he apparently was not holding the weapons, but he would 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:58.399 have had access to them. And his response was that 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:00.840 he thought that you know, he know what to think 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.880 because all these people were trying to break into his home, 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:07.000 so he retreated to the safe room in his house. Uh. 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:11.399 The um the officers say that he was trying trying 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:17.159 to escape and or delete incriminating evidence. They claimed that 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.199 he had a basically a panic button that would have 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:24.920 erased all of mega uploads files and he hold out 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:31.480 will he hold off candy like button? Good times well. 0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:35.040 In July tenth, two thousand twelve, the extradition hearings were 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:40.440 deferred until March two thousand thirteen, and New Zealand judge 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:45.159 said the United States must prove that he was aware 0:22:45.200 --> 0:22:49.320 of and supporting internet piracy to support an extradition claim. 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:53.800 And then on September two twelve, the Prime Minister of 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:57.200 New Zealand called for an investigation to determine if government 0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:01.639 officials had been spying on dot Com and his associates illegally. 0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:06.600 So it's a very thorny uh issue as far as 0:23:06.640 --> 0:23:09.680 the laws concerned. In fact, it gets even more complicated. 0:23:09.680 --> 0:23:15.359 There are some who say, uh, some being dot COM's lawyer, really, 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:19.440 who say that the United States case against dot Com 0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:25.919 is attempting to use civil complaints as a criminal charge, 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:28.960 which that that's not how that works. Civil courts and 0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:31.119 criminal courts in the United States. That's those are two 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:34.680 different things. But that at least some of the case 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:38.919 against dot Com is uh is based in would be 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:41.159 based in a civil court, not a criminal court, and 0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:45.120 yet they're using it as a criminal charge against him, 0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:49.040 and other parts of the criminal charges would depend wholly 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:52.000 upon how that civil case played out, so they can't 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:55.679 If that's in fact true, they would not be able 0:23:55.760 --> 0:24:00.800 to uh to to lay these charges against dot Com 0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:04.440 until after the civil case was tried and there was 0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:08.320 an outcome. UM. I think it's more complex from there. 0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:12.720 So it's it's uh. It's as a messy, messy situation, 0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:15.160 and as of the recording of this podcast, we can't 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:18.159 be sure what the outcome is going to be. Uh, 0:24:18.200 --> 0:24:20.920 there have been there's been more fallout from this beyond 0:24:21.080 --> 0:24:27.120 just the press. UM. Anonymous decided to get involved UM, 0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:30.720 which is kind of hard to say because Anonymous is 0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:34.360 such a vaguely defined group that it could be two 0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:37.240 people and Anonymous who want to do something and then 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:41.680 the entire group gets uh. UM pointed at as saying 0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:44.439 they're the ones responsible. Now, it could very well be 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:48.520 that of Anonymous all was behind us, or even percent 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:51.080 was behind it, But by the very nature of the group, 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:55.720 which is a decentralized activist group, you can't be sure, 0:24:56.560 --> 0:25:00.600 which is part of what protects them. Well. Anyway, some 0:25:00.680 --> 0:25:05.080 people apparently belonging to Anonymous, at least according to those 0:25:05.119 --> 0:25:07.639 who are looking into this, and it could be that 0:25:07.680 --> 0:25:11.240 that's all not true as well, UM started to launch 0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:16.000 attacks against websites UM, particularly websites belonging to the Department 0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:19.160 of Justice, the United States Department of Justice, in retaliation 0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:22.639 for the raids that were and and the shutdown of 0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:26.720 mega Upload. So you had distributed denial of service attacks 0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:30.760 going out across the Internet, fired from the canon of 0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:33.159 h of activists who may or may not belong to 0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:38.640 anonymous um as another another salvo in this battle between 0:25:39.440 --> 0:25:44.119 well multiple parties at this point. Yeah, yeah, and UM 0:25:44.680 --> 0:25:48.040 to complicate matters. Now that you know Kim dot com 0:25:48.119 --> 0:25:50.760 is out on his own, he's also and again this 0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:53.960