1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Hello everyone, and welcome to tech stuff. 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: My name is Chris Polette and I am an editor 4 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com, stating incrust from me 5 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: as usual as senior writer Jonathan st Hey. There, So, um, today, 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: we wanted to talk about a controversial subject, a couple 7 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: of different controversial subjects. Right, there's a mega controversy, yes, 8 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: mega upload, and uh, many of you have probably heard 9 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: about mega upload. Some of you may have even used 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: the service. Some of you may be going to mega 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: upload dot com right now and wondering if you're in 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: trouble because you see that there's a big takedown notice 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: where the site used to be. But we wanted to 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: talk about what it is, what the controversy is around it, 15 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: what the various legal issues are surrounding it, and a 16 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: lot about the Uh. I guess flamboyant is an appropriate word, 17 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: uh head of mega upload Kim dot com. Yes, um, yeah, 18 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: So I guess we can start off why not at 19 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: the beginning, back in two thousand five Kim dot com. 20 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,559 Speaker 1: And when I say at the beginning, I'll go back 21 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: further than this later on and we talk about the 22 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: legal issues, but he founded a site. UH turned out 23 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: to be a family of sites, but we tend to 24 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: just call it mega upload. And the idea behind this 25 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: was kind of like a very specific implementation of cloud storage. 26 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: So the idea was that users could upload files to 27 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: this service, mega upload, and then allow other people to 28 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: download those files and on its own. If that's all 29 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: we say, that's not there's nothing controversial about that. That's 30 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: just a method of distributing data. The problem comes in 31 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: as to the nature of that data and whether or 32 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: not that data had any intellectual property rights associated with it. 33 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: That perhaps the user who uploaded the file did not 34 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: have access to our authorization to uh to distribute that file, 35 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: and that's the crux of the problem. So mega upload 36 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: is what we call locker site, and you you create 37 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: a locker where you upload the files other people can 38 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: download them and UH. And there are some interesting things 39 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: about mega upload. For example, UH, uploading a file didn't 40 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: guarantee that file was going to be stored there forever. UH. 41 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: The the service would actually delete files out of its 42 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: storage if they were not being downloaded enough. At least 43 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: that was sort of the that was the allegation that 44 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: the United States government made against mega upload. When building 45 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: its case, they said that in order for a file 46 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 1: to be hosted, it had to be popular, It had 47 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: to reach a certain threshold of popularity, and if people 48 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: stopp downloading it, the file would no longer be hosted 49 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: on mega upload UM. So that's kind of a way 50 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: of to conserve space. You know, the files that are 51 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: really popular stay available. Files no one seems to want 52 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 1: go away, and you don't have to worry about hosting 53 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: a file forever. Because of course, the more popular the 54 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: site got, the larger it's UM requirements were to for 55 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: for hosting space because I mean, these digital files are 56 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: taking up hard drive space somewhere on servers, so you 57 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: have to be able to, uh to meet that demand. 58 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: And one way of doing that is to phase out 59 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: any files that are not particularly sought after. Yeah. Now 60 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: you might be saying, you know, well, how is this 61 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: different from something like dropbox or perhaps YouTube um? And 62 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: there are big differences, UM, because some of the charges 63 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 1: that have been filed basically accused the people behind mega 64 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: upload UM. Kim dot com is sort of the face 65 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: of mega upload, but the he had a handful of 66 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: partners who were closely were you know, working on it 67 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: with him very closely. Um. So the people behind mega 68 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: upload have been charged with basically, um, not only providing 69 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: storage space, but knowing what was in that storage space 70 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: and encouraging people to upload popular content which may or 71 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:49,040 Speaker 1: may not have been um, you know, stuff that violated copyright. 72 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: And and that's really that that's you know, the question. 73 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: Those are the questions that you know, how how far 74 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: did it go? Allegations. The allegations actually go so far 75 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: as to claim that the uh, the owners of mega 76 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: upload paid out money to people in order to encourage 77 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: them to upload popular files. And by popular, we're talking 78 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: about stuff that violates intellectual property. Uh. When you when 79 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 1: you just say popular, that could be anything, but in 80 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: the case that was brought against mega upload and its founders, 81 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: they're specifically talking about things like movies or music. Really 82 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: movies is the big one, but it's not just movies. 83 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: It's television and music as well. Saying all right, well, 84 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: there are people uploading entire libraries of files to your site. Uh, 85 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: they don't have the authorization to do that. People are 86 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: essentially using mega upload to perpetuate piracy, and so ultimately, 87 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: and when you look at this, you can figure out 88 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: there are certain industries that are very much pushing for 89 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: action against Mega upload. It's it's pretty safe to say 90 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: that this was not just a government agency saying, oh, 91 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: here's a bad guy, we need to go after him. 92 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: This these are industries that are using political pressure to 93 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 1: go after a company that they see as a threat 94 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: to their business model. Then, in itself is not necessarily 95 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,359 Speaker 1: a bad thing. You want to protect your business, you know, otherwise, 96 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: if you don't protect your business, you go out of business. However, 97 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: there are some questions as to the execution of this 98 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: and whether or not it oversteps bounds. For example, a 99 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: mega upload we haven't mentioned this yet. It is a company. 100 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: It's a company that's based The company itself is based 101 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: out of Hong Kong. So that raises some questions because 102 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 1: it's the United States that's primarily going after Kim dot 103 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: Com and the other people behind Mega Upload, and the 104 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: United States does not have jurisdiction in Hong Kong. On 105 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: top of that, Kim dot com, um and the other 106 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: people who were rounded up we'll talk about the roundup 107 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: in a second. They were all in New Zealand, also 108 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 1: last I checked, not within the jurisdiction of the United States. Yeah, um, 109 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: pretty sure. I mean I could be wrong. It could 110 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: be that in the Hobbit, I'll see that, you know, 111 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: federal agents are knocking down the enemy's door and uh 112 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: and in Mirkwood spoiler alert. But it would surprise me. Um, however, 113 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: some of the company's servers were based here in the 114 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: United States. That that was one thing. Yeah, but that 115 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: was done on purpose. Um why was that down on purpose? Well? 116 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: Remember when I mentioned YouTube a few minutes ago. Um, well, YouTube, 117 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: from time to time people upload content to the site 118 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: that infringes on someone's copyright. You know, they take and 119 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: rip a movie and stick it on YouTube, which is 120 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: pretty much blatantly illegal. The thing is, what the idea 121 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: is that under current uh United States law, the copyright 122 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: owner can contact YouTube and say, hey, take that down. 123 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: And YouTube is supposed to take it down, and and 124 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: Kim Kim dot com has said that Mega Upload did that. Um. 125 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: Now see there there's there's what is called safe Haven, 126 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,679 Speaker 1: which was part of the d m C a Digital 127 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: millennium right, and basically it says, hey, look, you know 128 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: you're providing the storage space online that doesn't make you 129 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: necessarily liable for what people do with that space. If 130 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: they put uh material up there that infringes upon someone's copyright, 131 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:43,839 Speaker 1: as long as you take it down when you're asked 132 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 1: to by the copyright holder, that's not it's not your 133 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: fault that that people do that. What they're saying that 134 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: Mega upload did, however, was um basically not only uh 135 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: host that they didn't necessarily take it down immediately upon 136 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: being asked. They might have been selective in what they 137 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: took down, and they were encouraging people to post popular content. 138 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: So they're saying, no, you guys don't qualify for safe haven. 139 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 1: This is completely different. And they're being brought up on 140 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: criminal charges um, which is different than a simple lawsuit. Hey, 141 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: we're suing you because you did not take this down. Yeah. 142 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: The the d m c A is very uh it 143 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: lays this out in a very specific way that the 144 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: ideas that it will protect these service providers so that 145 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: they are not um shouldered with all the responsibility for 146 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: providing what is a valuable service to people who might 147 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: use it in ways for which it was not intended 148 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: or in illegal ways. Uh. So you can argue whether 149 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: or not Mega upload was intended for illegal use or not. 150 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: That's in fact the federal h federal officials are very 151 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: much making that argument. But UH for the d m 152 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: c A to apply for that safe haven to apply, 153 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: the the owners of the service cannot knowingly host illegal material. 154 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: That they are told about the illegal material, they have 155 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: to remove it. One of the allegations against Kim dot 156 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: Com and mega upload is that when they were told 157 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: about illegal material, what they would do is remove a 158 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: link to that illegal material, but they would not remove 159 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: the file itself. So in other words, the file still 160 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: exists on mega upload. They just removed whatever link was reported. Well, 161 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 1: the way mega upload worked was that if you were 162 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: to try and upload a file, Let's say that let's 163 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: say Chris and I have decided to UH to throw 164 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: caution to the wind and embrace our darker natures and 165 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: to UH to dive headfirst into the world of illicit 166 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: film trading online. And so Chris and I both have 167 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: the same idea. At the same time, we have both 168 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: decided that now is the time for us to upload 169 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: a copy of the Steven Spielberg Mega hit Howard the Duck, 170 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: And so Chris uploads Howard the Duck before I do, 171 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: because he has a better internet connection. So that Howard 172 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: the Duck file that specific hash gets uploaded up to 173 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: mega upload, and then I do the same thing. Now 174 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: the file that I'm using is based off the same 175 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: one that Chris made, so it's got the same data, 176 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: same everything. When I uploaded, mega upload looks and says, oh, 177 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: wait a minute, I've already got this file. So instead 178 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: of uploading this to your locker, why don't you, uh, 179 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: would you prefer it if we just um linked to 180 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: it and added another link to the already existing file 181 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: because it's the same information. This way, you don't have 182 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: to upload the whole thing. You just add the link. 183 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: And you say, because you don't want to have to, 184 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: you know, come up your internet connection all that time, 185 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: or I say, in this case, because it's using my example, 186 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,479 Speaker 1: I said, sure, just put the link in. Well. The complaint, 187 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: one of the complaints that the FEDS made against mega 188 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: upload is that if you were the content owner, if 189 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: you're the intellectual property rights owner of Howard the Duck 190 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: of the film Howard the Duck, and you wanted to 191 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: protect it, and you saw that there was a link 192 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 1: to a mega upload locker that contained that movie. You 193 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: would send that complaint to Mega upload and then they 194 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: would apparently remove the link, the specific link you mentioned. However, 195 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 1: I also have a link to that content. It's a 196 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: different link. It's the same file, which means that because 197 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: they did not delete the file itself, there's still a 198 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: pathway to get to that file. All they did was 199 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: close off one path, but they left another path open. 200 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: That's the allegation. That's what the federal federal officers are saying. 201 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: They're saying, well, yeah, you would remove this link, but 202 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: the file still existed and there were still other links 203 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: to that file, so you didn't solve the problem. All 204 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: you did was close one door, but there were you know, however, 205 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: other many doors open, so people could still get to 206 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: it and the problem was not fixed. Um. So that's 207 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: that's one of the main arguments here. Now. The way 208 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,319 Speaker 1: this all went down was way back on January nine, 209 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 1: two twelve. Do you remember January two thousand twelve, back 210 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: when we were wondering if Apple was going to have 211 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: an iPad three and no idea that they would also 212 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: have an iPod pot iPad four that same year. Um, 213 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: that's just a light dig so on January nineteenth, the 214 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: Department of Justice seized the UH mega upload dot com 215 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: site and all of its family of sites like mega 216 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: video and things like that, and they shut it down 217 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: and they began to pursue a criminal case against the 218 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: owners and operators of that site. On January two thousand twelve, 219 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: Hong Kong Customs ended up freezing assets belonging to the 220 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: company and UH on that. On January twenty, in New Zealand, 221 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: UH New Zealand police, acting under the the direction of 222 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: United States federal officers, led a raid against a mansion 223 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: that was being leased by Kim dot com UM and 224 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: had happened to have several other Mega upload people there 225 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: at the time because they were celebrating his birthday, so 226 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: they timed it out to raid on his birthday. UH 227 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: they went in, they seized around seventeen million dollars worth 228 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: of assets, including vehicles and art, so stuff that was 229 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: not related directly to the website. But the federal officers 230 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: claimed that these are things that Kim dot com bought 231 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: through money laundering and other means. UM specifically that that 232 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: allegation s and that Mega upload paid people to upload 233 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: illegal material to their site. Um and if you're wondering 234 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: how does mega upload make money, because we didn't really 235 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: talk about that. There's two ways you could be a subscriber, 236 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: but that's really the it's kind of a minor way 237 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 1: that they generate revenue. They mostly generate rate revenue through ads. Well, 238 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: they serve up ads over when when you're downloading, that's 239 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: when the ads get served to you. So if you 240 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: download a file, that's when you start seeing these ads. 241 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: So there's an incentive to provide as many downloads as 242 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: possible because the more downloads there are, the more ads 243 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: Mega upload serves, the more money it gets. So that's 244 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: where a lot of this cash came from. So uh 245 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: that that all went down on January and went pretty quickly, 246 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: but dot com And was not resting. He hired on 247 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: some lawyers and began to fight back against the actions 248 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: taken against him and against Mega Upload. So March five, 249 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, the United States files for an extradition 250 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: request for in New Zealand courts, saying we want to 251 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: extradite him to the US and try him there for crimes. 252 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: Keeping in mind again Hong Kong Company New Zealand resident 253 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: actually New Zealand citizen. He or he I guess resident 254 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: is the right word. He did apply for residency and 255 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: was granted it. He's actually German, German born. Yeah, see 256 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: what you could tell by the dot com last name. 257 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: Actually he changed that name. He changed that name partially 258 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: because of his his childhood. Yeah, he was. He was. 259 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: His original name is Kim Schmitz. And actually his his 260 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: past is definitely one of the reasons why there's so 261 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: much interest in him and why I think, uh, the 262 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: United States government felt fairly confident going after him because 263 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: he he is not He doesn't have a squeaky clean past. 264 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: He was he was tried for embezzlement. He was a 265 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: teenage internet sensation in a sense and like an investment sensation, 266 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: and was was accused of with charges of insider trading. 267 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: And sorry, keep trying to interrupt, I shouldn't I apologize. Um. 268 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 1: There's a great article in Wired magazine and on Wired 269 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 1: dot com about him that Charles Graber wrote, UM actually 270 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: brought the dead Tree version with me. Subscribe to to it. Um, 271 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's definitely it's a really did you read 272 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: this in your research? UM? I thought it was a 273 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 1: really good balanced article. Because it talks about some of 274 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: his more positive you know, attempts to be more positive 275 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: and some of his past which has been you know, 276 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: not always on the up and up. I mean he 277 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: in school, he wasn't really a dedicated student. He preferred 278 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: to uh apparently likes to sleep late, and he liked 279 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: to skip class and sleep in basically, but he got 280 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: an interested in computers when he was a teenager and 281 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: and really embraced it. He took off with it. Yeah, 282 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: he hacked into some pretty uh pretty notable systems like NASA. 283 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: So he's definitely got He's definitely got a history of 284 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: being somewhat of a mischief maker. But he got a 285 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: good scare when he was a kid too. He got 286 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: in trouble with the law, and uh, basically I get 287 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: the sense or at least the article paints him and 288 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: somebody who uh say, you know, once he got done 289 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: with that, said hey, I I really don't want to 290 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: mess with this again. But the thing is too he 291 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: also and this also does not paint or did not 292 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:48,120 Speaker 1: did not help him with this um recent arrest. And uh, 293 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 1: he kind of paints himself as a high roller gangster type. Yeah, 294 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: he's that seventeen million dollars with the art some of 295 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: those cars that they see, He's like some of the 296 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 1: cars were hundreds of thousands of dollars in value for 297 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 1: an individual car. One of us associates said, Hey, you know, 298 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: we have a big car with a license plate that 299 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 1: says mafia on it. But we're we're fooling around. We're 300 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 1: not serious about that stuff, right. It's but the government 301 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: doing it on purpose. They're thinking of it as like 302 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: giant toys. He also had a helicopter. I mean, he 303 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: had lots of stuff. On April thirty, two thousand twelve, uh, 304 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: a New Zealand judge found that some of the assets 305 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 1: in that raid were improperly seized and that paperwork was 306 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: not correctly filed, and as a result, they returned about 307 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: seven fifty thousand dollars worth of assets to um to 308 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: dot com, who, by the way, was having some problems 309 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: getting bail for a while, not not having not coming 310 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 1: up with the money, but just getting the the option 311 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: of being able to post bail. Judge initially denied him that, 312 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: saying that because he had a helicopter and because he 313 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: was a man of pretty uh substantial means that he 314 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: was a flight risk, and also citing his past as well, 315 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 1: uh where he had a little bit of a history 316 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: of hopping around a bit, uh, apparently to dodge authorities 317 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 1: and investigations. Uh. But then another judge found later they said, well, yeah, 318 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: but we seized all his assets. He's not going anywhere, 319 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: so we're going to grant him the option to post bail. Uh. 320 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: So that that did change well April three, when he 321 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: got about seven or fifty thou dollars worth of the 322 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: assets returned, including several of the cars. So it's not 323 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: like it was just a big suitcase full of cash. Uh. 324 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: June two thousand twelve, a New Zealand judge ruled that 325 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: the search warrants were dot COM's property were not valid 326 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 1: because they were too general. Yeah. Yeah. And in addition 327 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: to that, there has been a question over whether um 328 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 1: or not the use of force that not not that 329 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 1: you know, they shot their way in, but they came 330 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: in with weapons and things that we're not supposedly allowed 331 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: against um citizens of New Zealand. So there is some 332 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: question as to that that not only were the warrants 333 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: not specific enough, but whether or not that the use 334 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 1: of the techniques that they used during the raid on 335 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: his house, whether that was appropriate and and they kicked 336 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: the door down basically yeah, well, and dot Com for 337 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: his part, retreated to a safe room inside his house 338 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: and apparently had a couple of firearms in there with him, 339 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: which made it made it look not good. He didn't 340 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: he apparently was not holding the weapons, but he would 341 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: have had access to them. And his response was that 342 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: he thought that you know, he know what to think 343 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: because all these people were trying to break into his home, 344 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: so he retreated to the safe room in his house. Uh. 345 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: The um the officers say that he was trying trying 346 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: to escape and or delete incriminating evidence. They claimed that 347 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: he had a basically a panic button that would have 348 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: erased all of mega uploads files and he hold out 349 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: will he hold off candy like button? Good times well. 350 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: In July tenth, two thousand twelve, the extradition hearings were 351 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: deferred until March two thousand thirteen, and New Zealand judge 352 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: said the United States must prove that he was aware 353 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: of and supporting internet piracy to support an extradition claim. 354 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: And then on September two twelve, the Prime Minister of 355 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: New Zealand called for an investigation to determine if government 356 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: officials had been spying on dot Com and his associates illegally. 357 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: So it's a very thorny uh issue as far as 358 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: the laws concerned. In fact, it gets even more complicated. 359 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: There are some who say, uh, some being dot COM's lawyer, really, 360 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: who say that the United States case against dot Com 361 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 1: is attempting to use civil complaints as a criminal charge, 362 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: which that that's not how that works. Civil courts and 363 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: criminal courts in the United States. That's those are two 364 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: different things. But that at least some of the case 365 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 1: against dot Com is uh is based in would be 366 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 1: based in a civil court, not a criminal court, and 367 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,120 Speaker 1: yet they're using it as a criminal charge against him, 368 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: and other parts of the criminal charges would depend wholly 369 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: upon how that civil case played out, so they can't 370 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 1: If that's in fact true, they would not be able 371 00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: to uh to to lay these charges against dot Com 372 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: until after the civil case was tried and there was 373 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: an outcome. UM. I think it's more complex from there. 374 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: So it's it's uh. It's as a messy, messy situation, 375 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: and as of the recording of this podcast, we can't 376 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: be sure what the outcome is going to be. Uh, 377 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: there have been there's been more fallout from this beyond 378 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 1: just the press. UM. Anonymous decided to get involved UM, 379 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: which is kind of hard to say because Anonymous is 380 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,360 Speaker 1: such a vaguely defined group that it could be two 381 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 1: people and Anonymous who want to do something and then 382 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,680 Speaker 1: the entire group gets uh. UM pointed at as saying 383 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,439 Speaker 1: they're the ones responsible. Now, it could very well be 384 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: that of Anonymous all was behind us, or even percent 385 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: was behind it, But by the very nature of the group, 386 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: which is a decentralized activist group, you can't be sure, 387 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: which is part of what protects them. Well. Anyway, some 388 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: people apparently belonging to Anonymous, at least according to those 389 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 1: who are looking into this, and it could be that 390 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: that's all not true as well, UM started to launch 391 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: attacks against websites UM, particularly websites belonging to the Department 392 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: of Justice, the United States Department of Justice, in retaliation 393 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 1: for the raids that were and and the shutdown of 394 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: mega Upload. So you had distributed denial of service attacks 395 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: going out across the Internet, fired from the canon of 396 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: h of activists who may or may not belong to 397 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 1: anonymous um as another another salvo in this battle between 398 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: well multiple parties at this point. Yeah, yeah, and UM 399 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: to complicate matters. Now that you know Kim dot com 400 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: is out on his own, he's also and again this 401 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: is fairly recent um as at the time we're recording this, 402 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 1: that he's created a new service, just Mega. In fact, 403 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: it's m dot g A, which is using the gabon 404 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: H Is that how you pronounce it? Um anyway, Yes, 405 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 1: they're using their country code. So it's my dot g 406 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: A and that's on launching one on one year to 407 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: the day of his arrest January. The new service is 408 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: supposed to go online. And uh, from what I've read 409 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 1: about the new service, it's supposed to circumvent the quote 410 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: unquote problems. You'll see why I said that, Uh put 411 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 1: in the fake scare quotes um for uh for this 412 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 1: because they won't be able to see what's inside these lockers. Yeah. 413 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 1: Everything gets encrypted when you upload a file. Uh, it 414 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: gets encrypted within your browser. Yeah, and it so, in 415 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: other words, the owners of Mega would never be able 416 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: to see what content was stored on their service at all. 417 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: It would all just be meaningless encrypted, uh information, Right, 418 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: So they So even if you were an intellectual property 419 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,360 Speaker 1: rights holder and you went to Mega and said, um, 420 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: this file is violating our intellectual property, they'd say, well, 421 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: we can't tell that because for us, it's just meaningless 422 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: jumble of symbols. It doesn't there's no file here as 423 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: far as we can see. Yeah. Also, there will be 424 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: no servers in the United States jurisdiction according to what 425 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: I've read, So that would but that would protect them 426 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: on those counts, or at least would come closer to 427 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: protecting them, right. Yeah. The way you would access one 428 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: of these files, of course, that you would get if 429 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: you were to upload a file like let's say I 430 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: upload a file of Howard the Duck and it's encrypted 431 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: into Mega, I would want. Part of that transaction would 432 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: be I would get a key that I could share 433 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: with other people that would allow them to decrypt whatever 434 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,400 Speaker 1: the file was. Yes, so I could send the key 435 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: to Chris and say, saved you the trouble, big guy, 436 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: here's the movie, and he could go and download it 437 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: because he has the key. Anyone who does not have 438 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: the key would not be able to see what the 439 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 1: heck that file was. Yes, and that would prevent the 440 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: problem of needing D duplication. UM. You know, the same 441 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: file taking up filespace now it basically know that the 442 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: same UH information was up there, but it wouldn't say 443 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 1: what that information was specifically, so so they would have 444 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 1: a better chance of pleading UH safe harbor in that case. 445 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: It's mostly to obviously protect the owner and caretakers of 446 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 1: mega But all this being said, you know, we've talked 447 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 1: a lot about the piracy, and we've talked a lot 448 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: about the the allegations against mega upload UM and I 449 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: probably should have said this much earlier in the podcast, 450 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: but there are very legitimate ways to use these services 451 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 1: that have nothing to do with violating intellectual property, property 452 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: or piracy or anything like that. Like if I have 453 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: content that belongs to me and I want to be 454 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: able to distribute it to all wide network and I 455 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: cannot host it myself, something like one of these sites 456 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: could be very useful. You know, I may not have 457 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: any other distribution platform that I can use to get 458 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: my content out there. So there are plenty of use 459 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 1: cases where there's nothing wrong with using a site like 460 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: mega upload to either distribute or to get access to material. 461 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: It's only in the case where that is unauthorized use 462 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: of intellectual property. That is the problem. Now that raises 463 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: a question of well, what percentage of activity on mega 464 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: upload uh revolved around intellectual property theft? And whether and 465 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: if it was a lot, were the founders aware of 466 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: it or even complicit in it. Those are the points 467 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: that need to be hashed out in court. I've also 468 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: seen at least one judge in the United States say 469 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: that he doubts this will ever go to court in 470 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: the US. He thinks that there are enough problematic factors 471 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: involved in the whole raid and seizing of the property 472 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: that will prevent it from ever having its stay in 473 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 1: court in in the US. So we'll see, it's very possible. 474 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: It does look like it was not the um not 475 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: the smoothest raid I've ever seen, at least from a 476 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: paperwork standpoint. So yeah, we'll have to wait and see 477 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: if that if that's how it plays out. But it's 478 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: an interesting case, and it is somewhat worrisome because even 479 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: if you were to say that the founder and owners 480 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: of mega upload, we're all actively encouraging piracy, that reflects 481 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: poorly on other file sharing services that may be very 482 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: much dedicated to fighting piracy on their own service, but 483 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: now they are brought into question because they just happen 484 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: to have the same distribution model more or less as 485 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: Mega mega upload, and UH, that hurts everybody. So it's 486 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: not you know, even if you think, oh, well, I 487 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: never pirate stuff and I would never upload those kind 488 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 1: of files to a service, it can still affect you 489 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: it because it might mean that some other service that 490 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: you use and you trust ends up getting caught in 491 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: this blast and uh ends up not being able to 492 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: continue its services. It also raises another question. I know 493 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: that there are a lot of people who had stuff 494 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: up on mega upload and now they don't have access 495 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: to it. So there are people who saying, wait a minute, 496 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: I owned the content that I put up on mega 497 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: upload that belongs to me, and now I can't get 498 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: to it. Yeah. And and it's funny because the article 499 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: in Wired ends with um, the judge wanting to release 500 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: information about the case to the media but wants all 501 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: the media outlets to have that access and exactly the 502 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,760 Speaker 1: same time and saying, wow, if we just had a 503 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 1: way to do that, and that would be something obviously 504 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: that that's sort of an allusion to, yes, you could 505 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: do that with something like mega upload and um, yeah, 506 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: I mean the it seems like the the apparently the 507 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,240 Speaker 1: service had been used by a great many people to 508 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: distribute content that they owned, that it was perfectly legal 509 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: to use the way they were using it. Um So yeah, 510 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: I think, Um, it's interesting to see. I think the 511 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: article sort of makes it sound like or or at 512 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: least gives me the impression that this situation is sort 513 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: of something of their own making, because they made themselves 514 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: appear to be up to something because it was fun 515 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: to play that way that there may not there may 516 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: not have been any attempt at anything impro improper, but 517 00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: people were using it improperly, and there wasn't, you know, 518 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: as much to discourage improper use as there could have 519 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: been perhaps, Um so it's yeah, I think I think 520 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: they they contributed to their own problems. Um. And it's 521 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: cases like this that give rise to propose pieces of 522 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: legislation like the Stop Online Piracy Act that are both 523 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: related to this. Yeah, so you've got, I mean, you've 524 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: got these are other things that can affect all of 525 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 1: us in a negative way. Uh, And we need to 526 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: really think about it before, you know, allowing proper intellectual 527 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: property owners to just run rampant over the legal system. 528 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: Now that being said, I still think that they deserve 529 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: some sort of support system to protect their intellectual property. 530 00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: You know, I don't. I don't think it should be 531 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 1: uh open season and that you can grab anything you want, 532 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,719 Speaker 1: anytime you want, with no care about, you know, purchasing it, 533 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: Because if we were to all live that way, a 534 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people would stop making content because there 535 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: would be no reason to do it, you know. I mean, 536 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: some people would make content because they love to create 537 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,319 Speaker 1: things and they love to share it. But a lot 538 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,720 Speaker 1: of the content that we love, the stuff that everyone 539 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: wants to get their hands on, would not exist because 540 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: no one would make it because there's no money in it. So, 541 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: you know, there's there's definitely a complex issue here, but uh, 542 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: it's it's one of those things. Why the reason why 543 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: I'm paying attention to the mega upload case is because 544 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: I know this is the sort of thing that inspires 545 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: various lobbies to UH petition UH legislators to create laws 546 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: that often go well beyond what the original intention of 547 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: that law was meant to do. You know, it might 548 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: the intention might be we need to protect these people 549 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: or these companies because their property is getting stolen, but 550 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: the actual implications go so far beyond it as to 551 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: well potentially cripple the internet it yea, So it's uh, 552 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's an interesting story. Um. We'll definitely keep 553 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: our eyes on it and see how it develops and maybe, 554 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: uh maybe Mega will become an even bigger story than 555 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: Mega upload ever was. Yeah, that's true. It's possible, especially 556 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 1: with the encryption. So he's also gonna he's planning on 557 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 1: a music streaming service as well. Yeah, I mean they 558 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: had a music storage service already, so that doesn't really 559 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: surprise me. And they even had a video streaming service, 560 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,439 Speaker 1: so it's kind of a considering the popularity of music 561 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: streaming over the last two years, that doesn't really surprise me. 562 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: So we'll see how that all comes out and whether 563 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 1: or not dot Com gets out of this one um, 564 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,479 Speaker 1: or you know, maybe he ends up courting even more 565 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 1: trouble in the future. He seems like the kind of 566 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: personality who sort of thrives on this sort of thing 567 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: to a point. I mean, no one thrives in having 568 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: seventeen million dollars worth of stuff taken from them, no, 569 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 1: but he does like attention. It seems like he would 570 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:04,839 Speaker 1: like attention for uh being a role model of sorts UM, 571 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,399 Speaker 1: but uh, you know, I don't know that he wants 572 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 1: to be seen as a uh a rule breaker, maybe 573 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 1: a rule bender. But yeah, I would encourage people to 574 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,319 Speaker 1: check out that article because, uh, it's interesting. It's really 575 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: it paints a very good picture I think of good 576 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: and bad that that that he's associated with, and whether 577 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,680 Speaker 1: or not it kind of gives you an idea of 578 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: the charges, the depth of the charges, um that are 579 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: being leveled against him. Um. And we also if you're 580 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 1: interested in in having a better understanding of different file 581 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,879 Speaker 1: sharing techniques and cloud storage, we have articles about those 582 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,879 Speaker 1: on the site as well on on how stuff Works 583 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,360 Speaker 1: dot com. So check those out, and if you have 584 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,520 Speaker 1: any suggestions for future episodes, I recommend you write us. 585 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: Our email address is tech stuff at Discovery dot com 586 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: or let us know on Facebook or Twitter or handle 587 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: at both of those is tech Stuff, hs W and 588 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: Chris and I will talk to you again really soon. 589 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit 590 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com.