Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane. Along
Speaker 1: with Jonathan Ferrell and Lisa Abramowitz. Daily we bring you
Speaker 1: insight from the best and economics, finance, investment, and international relations.
Speaker 1: To find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcast, Suncloud, Bloomberg dot Com,
Speaker 1: and of course on the Bloomberg terminal. Kema Leon joins
Speaker 1: us right now with decades of experience, and he can
Speaker 1: take us back to the ten to one reverse stock
Speaker 1: split of City Group fourteen years ago, Ken fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1: Can City Group and MS Frasier with all of her
Speaker 1: wonderful abilities, can she strategically and tactically compete with these
Speaker 1: other banks? Well, Tom, it's it's hard work for James
Speaker 1: Fraser because we're in the second phase of turner at,
Speaker 1: which is execution and who do they want to be?
Speaker 1: They already a NAPS and are disposing non US consumer
Speaker 1: backs and the question is is do they have meaningful
Speaker 1: scale outside the US to compete? This is a challenge,
Speaker 1: and I think investors are tired of looking at a
Speaker 1: stock that's trading at to net present value or to
Speaker 1: book value, and what that means is is that we're
Speaker 1: gonna have to see concrete signs of improvement. Uh, it's
Speaker 1: it's really tough. She has a change of leadership in
Speaker 1: the wealth management area, and that gets the Hinale's point
Speaker 1: about competing with ubs and private Swiss can't given the
Speaker 1: year ahead is internationally positive or negative in twenty three, John,
Speaker 1: I think it's it's actually moving to a surprise of
Speaker 1: the positive, the reopening of China, potentially Europe not getting
Speaker 1: crushed from natural gas prices all of a sudden, and
Speaker 1: for you large US facts, but the other three large
Speaker 1: ones it's about you know, of total revenue. But for
Speaker 1: investment banking that could be interesting as we go into
Speaker 1: three a little bit further down the road. For Goldman
Speaker 1: and Morgan Stanley, this is the heart of their business
Speaker 1: is really international and having this streamline network for corporate treasuries,
Speaker 1: but it's not there yet. They have to invest in
Speaker 1: their technology platform. Stocks down this morning by two point
Speaker 1: four percent. We can go through some of the banks
Speaker 1: in the pre market just briefly, got City Soft Bank
Speaker 1: of America down by two point five percent, got Wells
Speaker 1: far Go down by four percent, JP Morgan down by
Speaker 1: about two point eight percent or so. So negative across
Speaker 1: the board here looking at the financials, the broader ectority
Speaker 1: market down one percent. Just want to finish on this,
Speaker 1: can just on the international outlook, this from no data
Speaker 1: of Ren mac Tom and I were discussing it just
Speaker 1: moments ago. Europe's warming up, likely avoiding a technical recession.
Speaker 1: China is reopening, the FED is stepping down from the
Speaker 1: aggressive rate hike pace, and fiscal policy is no longer
Speaker 1: a drag. The Fed expects real GDP in twenty three
Speaker 1: to slow down to zero point five per and Q four.
Speaker 1: On Q four he says this, Ken, good luck with
Speaker 1: that one. Can't you agree with that? I think if
Speaker 1: you have an environment of not too hot and not
Speaker 1: too call, it's a great environment for financial sector, protectularly
Speaker 1: banks where the expectations are not as high as perhaps
Speaker 1: other areas that have benefited with a strong bolt Pase scenario.
Speaker 1: Bank's actually are in a pretty good position for performance
Speaker 1: for three as we see it, and we just want
Speaker 1: to see it one bank at a time, have a
Speaker 1: more constructive view as we get through the earning schools.
Speaker 1: I Ken, thanks Obama to Sismonic for the last couple
Speaker 1: of hours. We really appreciate it. Ken Ley on the CFR. Right,
Speaker 1: this is a really really important conversation. We don't do
Speaker 1: this enough. This is sort of what afternoon TV and
Speaker 1: radio do. It's not the province of the morning, but
Speaker 1: we're gonna do it because this weekend across this nation,
Speaker 1: a huge body in the nation is going to reallocate
Speaker 1: their retirement planned disaster. Lindsey Rosner is a student of this,
Speaker 1: a c f A of small college in New Jersey.
Speaker 1: She darkened the door on years ago, and lindsay, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna cut to the chase. P Jim, Greg Peters and
Speaker 1: everybody else in the industry is picking up the pieces
Speaker 1: from a complete disaster of sixty forty allocation and what
Speaker 1: PIJUM does, and I don't mean to pick on Pjum,
Speaker 1: but core this core that core. The other thing is, well,
Speaker 1: how do you reallocate after the debaccle of two thousand
Speaker 1: twenty two? Right? Well, um, I think you're right. It
Speaker 1: was a debacle in two Nobody can deny that. But
Speaker 1: I think what we've got now we know what this
Speaker 1: painful journey led us to is an unbelievable opportunity in
Speaker 1: the fixed income market. You actually have an opportunity to
Speaker 1: do the right thing in the safer thing We've been
Speaker 1: in the world for so long, where the requirement to
Speaker 1: get any kind of return, what's to go out the
Speaker 1: rest spectrum. You don't actually need to do that. Now
Speaker 1: you can get six seven yields in high quality assets.
Speaker 1: So I think the allocation, and I'm biased as a
Speaker 1: fixing comme manager, is bonds. I mean I think it's lindsay,
Speaker 1: what's so important here? And of course you on the
Speaker 1: high ground of this, uh let's call it c F
Speaker 1: A level three territory, folks where your eyes glaze over.
Speaker 1: But the bottom line is, do our listeners and viewers
Speaker 1: want to manage more towards an index fund within our
Speaker 1: squared at to point nine or even higher? Or do
Speaker 1: they want to get a little more supple and flexible
Speaker 1: this year? Not like something like Cathy Woods Art the
Speaker 1: train wreck that is, but do you want to be
Speaker 1: a little more active this year? Or INDEXI you want
Speaker 1: to be active? I think we say we love bonds,
Speaker 1: but we don't love all bonds, and either should you.
Speaker 1: This is a year of security selection, especially as we
Speaker 1: face a recession. There will be winners and they will
Speaker 1: be users, and you need an active manager to sort
Speaker 1: that out for you. Let's talk about that right now, lindsay,
Speaker 1: let's have that discussion. What are you looking for? What's
Speaker 1: on the list? So things that we really like, our
Speaker 1: high quality structured product, great credit enhancement there that even
Speaker 1: if you have problems and for example, some of the
Speaker 1: underlying loans and a CLO, you're protected. Um also select
Speaker 1: names in in corporate world investment great an high yield.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of opportunity to be had a lot
Speaker 1: of yields, but you need the resources to analyze the
Speaker 1: balance sheets. Let's go through high yield then, so I'll
Speaker 1: bring up how you spreads more broadly, and you can
Speaker 1: go a little deeper in town with what sectors maybe
Speaker 1: even what names you're looking at how you spread to
Speaker 1: come down to about four twenty lindsay, this is not
Speaker 1: for your benefits, for the benefit of our audience that
Speaker 1: might not follow this asset class. But the wide's a
Speaker 1: year ago, the whites back in the summer three, so
Speaker 1: we've tiened a tremendous amount at a time when people
Speaker 1: are trying to figure out if we're going into recession
Speaker 1: or not. So what do you like in that lower
Speaker 1: quality cohort of US corporations. Yeah, it is. It is
Speaker 1: really names specific and um. For example, there are some
Speaker 1: in the higher quality. I know you're asking lower quality,
Speaker 1: higher quality fallen angels that we think become those rising stars.
Speaker 1: But then it is is names um specific home builders
Speaker 1: we really like, which kind of sounds crazy with mortgage
Speaker 1: rates where they are, But it's about picking those out.
Speaker 1: And I think the key thing is is that the
Speaker 1: default projections are extremely low, the recoveries are higher, probably
Speaker 1: going to be higher than they were historically. These are
Speaker 1: all good things for high yield at large, but you've
Speaker 1: got to get those names right at these tight spreads.
Speaker 1: To your point, Greg emails in from New Jersey and says,
Speaker 1: Greg must to know, lindsay, are we clipping coupons? Are
Speaker 1: we going for total return this year? Help Greg out?
Speaker 1: I try to That's part of my count. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: we we can clip coupons. We've got a ton of
Speaker 1: spread if we just stay static. Um. But you're you're
Speaker 1: in a case where we are a total return. You
Speaker 1: know you got to keep looking for opportunity. Helpful to Greg, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's are good, you nailed it. Okay, let's keep this
Speaker 1: going folks. You don't see this on radio, but behind
Speaker 1: Lindsay's all of the Naziine tullub She's she's read over
Speaker 1: the years. I'm sorry. The world's changed. You know that
Speaker 1: all of a sudden the sharp ratio matters as well.
Speaker 1: Our viewers and listeners have to deal with a new
Speaker 1: cost of money. I get it that bonds are the
Speaker 1: place to be, but what's the recovery line back to
Speaker 1: two thousand twenty or two thousand nineteen. Do you and
Speaker 1: p JAM have a three year vision to get back
Speaker 1: or is it a five year vision to get back? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's longer term, right, We're longer than That's what
Speaker 1: we do. Um. I think a lot of people are
Speaker 1: quibbling right now. Is is GDP? For example, in the
Speaker 1: US next year point three is a point six percent?
Speaker 1: Is a point five and they're going to change it
Speaker 1: potentially even on the print we had yesterday. Let's pull
Speaker 1: the camera back and think long term and buy the
Speaker 1: right company's the right collateral that's going to do well
Speaker 1: and pick the spots that are going to have the
Speaker 1: right kind of recovery. Can we talk about allocation to
Speaker 1: bonds from a cross asset portfolio construction perspective. Lindsay, people
Speaker 1: may be looking to allocate to bonds back into that
Speaker 1: traditional sixty this year, and I think we're still trying
Speaker 1: to figure out what snaps that positive correlation between risk
Speaker 1: equities and between traditional fixed incomes. Say so foreigns, do
Speaker 1: you think that breaks this year? And lindsay, why do
Speaker 1: you think it does break? What leads to that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think it goes right back to what just the
Speaker 1: time just said, which is we had two black Swans,
Speaker 1: we just had COVID, and we have a land war
Speaker 1: in Europe. So those are things that when you're looking
Speaker 1: at a theoretical model, black Swans aren't part of it,
Speaker 1: and we're had a very much black Swan style of year. Um,
Speaker 1: while we we certainly want to think about the risks
Speaker 1: or the unknown unknowns, but I think we're going to
Speaker 1: enter a more normal time and that's important and that's
Speaker 1: where those correlations you've historically studied come back into play.
Speaker 1: The challenge to that view if I can provide it,
Speaker 1: and I'd love your comment on it. The same reasons
Speaker 1: that we're seeing equities and emerging mark, it's ripped copper
Speaker 1: rallying aggressively European banks up a lot for the same reason.
Speaker 1: I think you could make the argument that yield should
Speaker 1: be higher, that we're seeing a more resilient economy than expected,
Speaker 1: that the central banks will have to go further, the
Speaker 1: ECB being one of them. We will get that growth
Speaker 1: impulse off the back of Hina reopening. Lindsay, why doesn't
Speaker 1: that result in better risk profiles? Equities are credit spreads tighter,
Speaker 1: but also treasury is going lower and yields still going
Speaker 1: higher from here through this year. Yeah, I think you're
Speaker 1: you're bringing up the risk case that is not priced in.
Speaker 1: So what I think is pretty incredible if you just
Speaker 1: look at what's implied in the forwards for February. The
Speaker 1: forwards are saying the Fed's gonna hid twenty seven basis points.
Speaker 1: And this is the way I'm answering your question. I
Speaker 1: can already answer it another way as well, but twenty
Speaker 1: seven basis points is saying that everybody knows what the
Speaker 1: Fed's going to do, and they know what's going to
Speaker 1: do going forward, and despite what it's telling you, they're
Speaker 1: gonna pause, they're going to cut. Why are we so
Speaker 1: confident now? Everybody was last year, and so I think
Speaker 1: your point of that risk of inflation actually being more persistent,
Speaker 1: the economy being more robust, China fueling the economy which
Speaker 1: is inflationary, that is a concern. We can't deny it
Speaker 1: if that can't be on autopilot cruise control. And by
Speaker 1: the way, neither convestors lindsay this was great, just fantastic
Speaker 1: right now. Important to speak to Mr Rochester of n
Speaker 1: MURA here about what will be the study over the weekend.
Speaker 1: He has to be delicate, he is with nu Japanese Bank,
Speaker 1: Jordan's it is just flat out there suddenly the death
Speaker 1: of yield curve control. Explain the ramifications for Global Wall
Speaker 1: Street ex Japan. If China gives if Japan gives way,
Speaker 1: if the Bank of Japan has to show normalize rates,
Speaker 1: what's it mean for the rest of US. It means
Speaker 1: a tom if you think about what Japan has done.
Speaker 1: They've had quantitative using for over a long period of time,
Speaker 1: much more than what we've had in Europe and in
Speaker 1: the US. So, first of all, those carry trades that
Speaker 1: are built up over the better part of a decade
Speaker 1: or longer could be underwound and it could lead to
Speaker 1: fixed income markets having a tightening in terms of credit conditions,
Speaker 1: and therefore it's not clear how risk sentiment would do
Speaker 1: well if they were to suddenly abandon yield curve control
Speaker 1: number one. How does the local market handler? How much
Speaker 1: do j g B sell off is fair value? Around
Speaker 1: eight five basis points. That's a significant daily sell off.
Speaker 1: But you know what markets are like in these sort
Speaker 1: of shock scenarios. You can get a sort of nonlinear
Speaker 1: market reaction. Then it feeds through to U s treasuries.
Speaker 1: One of the largest buyers, one of the largest holders
Speaker 1: of US treasuries outside of America is Japan. So how
Speaker 1: well do treasuries handle the Japanese having tighter conditions, higher
Speaker 1: yields in Japan making US fixed income less attractive. This
Speaker 1: sort of answer is it would need to quite big
Speaker 1: sell offs, I think because the sell offs here speak volatility.
Speaker 1: Ben Emmon's over at New Bridge talks today about China
Speaker 1: exporting disinflation when you work through the dynamics, If we
Speaker 1: work through the dynamics of the end of the Corona experiment,
Speaker 1: does a much larger, healthier Japan export disinflation or the opposite,
Speaker 1: While the world's very much globalized. Let's walk through the
Speaker 1: sort of path of how that could play out. What
Speaker 1: we're seeing is the first chance in a long time
Speaker 1: for Japan to have animal spirits and to escape the
Speaker 1: trap of deflation. We're seeing huge pay rises from certain retailers.
Speaker 1: The big headline for me this week was unique pay rise,
Speaker 1: the first time they've raised pay in twenty years. Four zero.
Speaker 1: That's a massive number across the board. We're seeing other
Speaker 1: companies doing big numbers, but much less extreme, like six
Speaker 1: percent or so. The shunto it's called the wage negotiations.
Speaker 1: They all come up to us around March time. Do
Speaker 1: we get big, big pay rises overall for the whole
Speaker 1: of Japan, then we could see inflation become a bit
Speaker 1: more of a topic that Japan has not had for
Speaker 1: a long time. What does that mean for the rest
Speaker 1: of the world. It means that we have one of
Speaker 1: the last few central banks doing quantitative easing coming to
Speaker 1: an end. If that was to happen, well, Jordan's not
Speaker 1: our base paste, but it's something to watch out for.
Speaker 1: In a big risk for this year. You've said it.
Speaker 1: They see it as a once in a generation opportunity
Speaker 1: to reset inflation higher. We see it as potentially a
Speaker 1: policy mistake on the horizon, and Jordan they've got to
Speaker 1: figure out what kind of policy setting is sustainable. Now.
Speaker 1: I thought that was the effort just a month ago,
Speaker 1: and now there's a conversation about maybe renewing that effort
Speaker 1: in a week's time. Jordan's what is it? While the
Speaker 1: base case from US is that we shouldn't get much
Speaker 1: of a change next week because of these risks we've
Speaker 1: talked about. But there's a trade off for the Center Bank,
Speaker 1: which is, are the benefits of yield curve control which
Speaker 1: are leading to Japan having to do massive amounts of
Speaker 1: quantitative easing to defend that target? Are they working against
Speaker 1: the potential positives from it? So are they? Are those
Speaker 1: positives becoming negatives? So let's just bear in mind Japan
Speaker 1: is experiencing inflation. It's nothing like Europe or the US,
Speaker 1: so it's still quite low compared to our standards, but
Speaker 1: it is high for japan standards, and we're having wage gains.
Speaker 1: So is the yield curve control, which is forcing them
Speaker 1: to do quantitative easing working against the idea of inflation
Speaker 1: going up and therefore maybe they should tighten. That's the
Speaker 1: problem of the policy, that's the buying they're in. It's
Speaker 1: just how quickly do they exit It is the problem
Speaker 1: for market. There's some speculation that could happen as early
Speaker 1: as next week. Hence we're getting these big dolly m moves.
Speaker 1: For us, it's a little bit too soon. We've got
Speaker 1: a new governor coming up. The new governor will start
Speaker 1: probably from April onwards, but it is. It is though
Speaker 1: the risk for next week another surprise from the Bank Japan.
Speaker 1: And that's why for us it's just easier to have
Speaker 1: a short dolly and trade on rather than talking anything
Speaker 1: specific about on this date this will happen. Let's break
Speaker 1: it one thirty right now, we've gone from one fifty
Speaker 1: to break it one on eight. That's dollar end cable
Speaker 1: has gone from one oh three fifty are the lows
Speaker 1: at the end of September all the way back through
Speaker 1: one twenty Euro dollar has gone from through one away
Speaker 1: you're looking for one ten six Jordan. Can we just
Speaker 1: sit on there just for a moment. What did the
Speaker 1: fex community get so wrong at the end of September.
Speaker 1: I remember the conversations we would have. We were talking
Speaker 1: about parity, perhaps on cable. We got close, euro dollar
Speaker 1: getting used to life below parity. Look at us now,
Speaker 1: what changed, Jordans. I don't miss last year at all, John.
Speaker 1: It was doom and gloom and I really didn't enjoy
Speaker 1: being right. So we've got the euro dollar view right
Speaker 1: at the cable right. We had a really good year
Speaker 1: in terms of P and l on our trade and
Speaker 1: gloom it was recession. It was European energy prices spiking
Speaker 1: to unbelievable heights, the trade balance of the euro Area
Speaker 1: collapsing for the first time in a generation, two levels
Speaker 1: that are wider than the US in terms of GDP.
Speaker 1: What's changed, John, is we've had a few factors of
Speaker 1: work in the euro where's favor. Number One, we've had
Speaker 1: energy prices collapse. That has been a massive tale win
Speaker 1: for industry. It's allowed all those steel chemical manufacturing plans
Speaker 1: to turn back on production. It's why we're seeing European
Speaker 1: data start to improve. Number two is thank you Mr. US.
Speaker 1: US inflations now decelerating. We could have goods deflation this year.
Speaker 1: That is a very different story to last year when
Speaker 1: US inflation was accelerating and the story is about how
Speaker 1: much hikes will the FED do. Now it's about when
Speaker 1: will the FED stop and when will they start to
Speaker 1: cut We think from September this year, so I think
Speaker 1: a lot's change on the ground in terms of facts.
Speaker 1: And then the third factor is China reopening. That's the
Speaker 1: new one. China reopening is a bigger deal for Europe
Speaker 1: than it is the US. US exports to China is
Speaker 1: less than one percent of GDP, no point six seven percent,
Speaker 1: to be exact. For the German economy, it's more than
Speaker 1: three times more important. It's around two point six seven
Speaker 1: percent of German GDP. Just exports to China, your biggest
Speaker 1: trading partner, reopening its doors, opening up its tourism flows.
Speaker 1: Makes Europe so much more attractive now with those energy
Speaker 1: story and the inflation story in the US too. Jordan,
Speaker 1: thank you joining us. Katrina Dadly, portfolio manager and research
Speaker 1: an list of Franklin mutual services. Can we get straight
Speaker 1: to you in Katrina on just what you expect from
Speaker 1: the bank earnings a little bit later this morning. Look,
Speaker 1: I think what we're looking for the bank earnings is
Speaker 1: really that arbiter of whether or not we're going into
Speaker 1: a recession. Because I think they're going to be the
Speaker 1: first line of defense here and the first people to
Speaker 1: see it. So we're looking closely at JP Morgan when
Speaker 1: it comes out and to see what Jamie has to
Speaker 1: say about where we are in the economic cycle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I look at Trina at the economic cycle and I
Speaker 1: would suggest to nine days is change And for a
Speaker 1: portfolio manager with all the sell side advice, you've got
Speaker 1: your internal wonderful advisors at Franklin Mutual have you, you know,
Speaker 1: not radically adjusted, but is there a change agent within
Speaker 1: a given portfolio because we've gone from December twentye to
Speaker 1: what we hope will be January. Where a value managers,
Speaker 1: so we do not make those very very significant shifts
Speaker 1: training you're not shifting on the inflation dynamic now as
Speaker 1: a value manager. No, in terms of the inflation, we
Speaker 1: continue to see the FED working and bringing it down.
Speaker 1: The question is, and that's the question we've been talking
Speaker 1: about all over two, is whether or not the FED
Speaker 1: engine is too much of a recession or whether or
Speaker 1: not they walk that tight load rope of slowing down
Speaker 1: the economy to slow down inflation without tipping us into
Speaker 1: a deep recession. We continue to be of the position
Speaker 1: that if we do go into a recession, it will
Speaker 1: be a mild one. And I think we're seeing all
Speaker 1: the signs of a very mild recession and that has
Speaker 1: very good implications for companies because it's manageable. A deep
Speaker 1: recession is really difficult to manage, as you talk about
Speaker 1: that fixed versus variable cost curve. UM, we think a
Speaker 1: mild recession companies can muddle through. So on a value basis,
Speaker 1: where do you which sectors do you find the best
Speaker 1: dynamics to surprise and to say Junior July in terms
Speaker 1: of surprise, one area we're looking at is the industrial sector. UM.
Speaker 1: I think that when we're talking about industrials, we're not
Speaker 1: talking about as much the autos that you're talking about
Speaker 1: with Tesla, and we are aware of what happened there yesterday,
Speaker 1: well this morning. We are now looking at industrial companies
Speaker 1: well placed, and they have this really good secular theme
Speaker 1: that we're focused on. It's the electrification, it's industry four
Speaker 1: point oh, it's the Inflation Reduction Act. Those things will
Speaker 1: be structural drivers, and we're just making sure that these
Speaker 1: companies have enough wherewithal three, we think the order books
Speaker 1: are very very strong, the backlogs are at very high levels,
Speaker 1: and we think that the variable costs are rising, rages
Speaker 1: and any other type of inflation is really manageable. These
Speaker 1: industrial companies are areas that we like, Katrina, Where did
Speaker 1: they minus fit into this? We caught up with a
Speaker 1: guest a little bit earlier this week, Christopher owners Frateigus, Rio, absolutely,
Speaker 1: Rippley liked Rio, b HP, glen Core. Where are you
Speaker 1: guys on those names? Um? We we do own a
Speaker 1: position in Rio UM and we would we disclose that UM,
Speaker 1: and we like the the the asset quality that we
Speaker 1: have there. But you're right, those type of names have
Speaker 1: gone up substantially, which makes the valuation case a lot
Speaker 1: harder than it was just a few months ago. But
Speaker 1: as a value manager, we're looking at where are they
Speaker 1: positioned in the commodity complex, and we're trying to make
Speaker 1: sure that we've got that really good combination of companies
Speaker 1: that while they are dependent on commodity prices, they have
Speaker 1: a lot of things that they can do internally that
Speaker 1: will drive earnings in addition to realizing the benefits of
Speaker 1: the commodity cost moves, both both up and down. Katrina,
Speaker 1: can you just go a little bit further there? You
Speaker 1: said it's cordant where they are exposed in the commodity complex.
Speaker 1: Where do you want them exposed and why do you
Speaker 1: want them not exposed? Um? I think that we can
Speaker 1: look at something like the copper market, which people are
Speaker 1: very much structurally bullish on. We're seeing some science that
Speaker 1: actually that's coming into balance. And what does that mean
Speaker 1: is you're likely to have some level of pressure on prices,
Speaker 1: but balance is okay. It's when we have over supply
Speaker 1: that we need to be cautious about. So they're the
Speaker 1: type of markets that you want to avoid, and so
Speaker 1: from our perspective, we just pushed them to the side
Speaker 1: and we focus on those type of commodities where we
Speaker 1: have the either iron or exposure, and we have copper
Speaker 1: exposure and various medals where we're very comfortable with that
Speaker 1: supply demand. D'manamy riohans that that's for sure. Katina, thank you.
Speaker 1: Turn it down to their Franklin Mutual series. This is
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Thanks for listening. Join us live
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