1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:21,119 Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. You know, looking back in Tom, 2 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: there's some characters out there if you are into literature 3 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: that kind of influence I think the way you think, 4 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: particularly when you're a kid and you're learning about these 5 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: literary giants, they influence you, I think the way you 6 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: look at the world. And I got to tell you 7 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: there's one character in particular that has always fascinated me. 8 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: And there's been various iterations of this character throughout Tom, 9 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: but probably this is the first. And his name was Faust. 10 00:00:53,880 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: And Faust actually is known for having made a deal 11 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: with the devil. Now this comes through they say at 12 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: least that he had a dissatisfaction with his life and 13 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: he was unfulfilled. But as a result of this deal 14 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: with the devil, he was able to become legendary in 15 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: his knowledge of all things, and he could experience anything 16 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: that he wanted to experience, almost on tap, if you will. 17 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: Today we've got an actual case of tragedy involving a 18 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: young woman who was only twenty one years old at 19 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: the time of her death, and also a man named Faust. 20 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Body Bags Brother Dave. 21 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: You know, I got to tell you, man, I think 22 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: that most people that hearing you talk about forensics on 23 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: the show, and they think that I am just by 24 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: default a science guy and you know, kind of a 25 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: nerdy dude, And I guess I am. Actually I embraced 26 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: the term nerd because I always tell my son, who's 27 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: twenty two now and he's in a very technical career 28 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: that he's being educated in at university right now. I've 29 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: always told him, I said, son, nerds rule of the 30 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: world and so, and that's the truth. But I got 31 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: to tell you, science was I've always been a science guys. 32 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 1: Science was never necessarily my passion. And when I was 33 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: in high school, my favorite subject in the world was 34 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: actually English and literature and I did That's the one 35 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: ap class I actually did in high school back back 36 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: during those times. And my professor or teacher was a 37 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: guy named doctor James Cook. And doctor Cook has passed 38 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: on now, but to have a guy that had a 39 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: doctorate in literature that was teaching high school was like 40 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: really really remarkable for that period of time. First off, 41 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: you know, nowadays you can swing a dead cat hit 42 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: somebody with a doctorate there everywhere back then, doctorates were 43 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: rare and to have access to that brain. And I 44 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: mentioned Faust just a second ago, and Faust is one 45 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: of those characters that we explored in high school. And 46 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: you know, there's translation between I think what we see 47 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: and do in forensics and the classics, because as they say, 48 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: there's nothing new under the sun. If you you know, 49 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: evil has always been around. And I got to tell you, brother, 50 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: the case of Tara Baker that we're talking about today, 51 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: this is pure unabashed evil and this family has been suffering, 52 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: now loathed these many years from a case that occurred 53 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: back in two thousand and one. They have been suffering 54 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: all this time. But I think the sweet Lord above, 55 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: they finally it looks like they finally have some answers. 56 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 2: When we were talking about Lake and Riley and that 57 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 2: whole rigormarole, I'm saying that happened with that, not her, 58 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 2: not that the story was rigamarole, just when that was 59 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: going on, and yeah, eyes of. 60 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: It, and there was so much around it. 61 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, this story came up Tara Baker because at the 62 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 2: time it was. 63 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: It did come up. It did come up, and it. 64 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 2: Was mentioned as hey, this isn't the first time we've 65 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 2: been there. Here's an unsolved crime from two thousand and one. 66 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: Holy smokes, you just hit me with that. I I'm 67 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: just thinking right now the proximity time wise to the 68 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 1: Lincoln Riley homicide and then on on literally on the 69 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: heels of this right out of Athens, Georgia. Yeah, this, 70 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: this reason has has been solved. 71 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 2: The reason it hit me was because you mentioned it 72 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: and one other person mentioned the Tara Baker story. And 73 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 2: I'm gonna be honest with you, I got it confused 74 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: with Tara Grinstead, another unsought case that has been solved 75 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 2: in the last two years, and a Georgia case, George 76 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 2: George case, right, yeah, And so I looked up I 77 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 2: remember Tara Baker, who are we talking about? And I 78 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 2: went and looked it up and I was like, oh 79 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: my word. You know, it was one of those things. 80 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: And then when I saw it bubbling up last week 81 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 2: that we had a solution, I'm the rumors, you know, 82 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 2: the rumors hit first, and then it's yeah, yeah, yeah. 83 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: So Tara was in Athens going to college. She was 84 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 2: accepted the University of Georgia Law School. After she graduate 85 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: from Georgia College with two bachelor's degrees. Twachel Yes, many 86 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: of us barely. 87 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 88 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: Anyway, her commitment to social justice was a big deal, 89 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 2: a very inclusive individual, pulling everybody along, you know, the 90 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: whole rising tide thing that was her. In a nutshell, 91 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 2: Tara was the person that people looked up to, not 92 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 2: because she was the loudest in the room, but because 93 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 2: she was the person you could count on. 94 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: Tara's entered into this world at this point, she's young, 95 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: just gorgeous, and but she's had to find a place 96 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: to live. And that's that's part of surviving college, because 97 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: I think that there are a lot a lot of 98 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,559 Speaker 1: brilliant people that have wound up housed in really bad 99 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:50,280 Speaker 1: areas or bad places, and they don't they don't survive 100 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: in those environments because it's not it's not healthy, it's 101 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: not a productive study area and that sort of thing. 102 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: But she had apparently lighted on this this apartment that 103 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: she had, and it's kind of a single story structure, 104 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: standalone thing, and she sets up housekeeping there, and Lord 105 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: have mercy, the horror that kind of unfolded Dave in 106 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: this particular case is something that we we don't really 107 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: see all the time. On body bags. But certainly it 108 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: has been revealed. Now now with these changes in the case, 109 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: it's been revealed what she probably went through. Dave's can 110 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: you kind of back up a little bit? I'm sorry 111 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: I prattled on, but what actually went down relative to 112 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: the discovery of Tara. 113 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 2: Tara was living by herself and I'm trying. I want 114 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 2: to make sure I get this right. She heads over 115 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 2: to the law library. She'd by the way, and this 116 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 2: goes back to the college lifestyle she had just after 117 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: returning to classes for the Springs amount. She heads to 118 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: the law library for a study session with a friend. 119 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 2: By seven thirty, the friend is ready to go, but 120 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 2: Baker not ready to stop. She keeps on studying. That 121 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: was her nature. At a quarter to ten, okay, her friend, 122 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: her study partner bails a seven thirty terras still there 123 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 2: quarter to ten, studying, She calls her friend from the 124 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: library to make sure she got home safe and mentions 125 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 2: that she has plans going to leave in a couple 126 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 2: of minutes and be back at her place. He's living 127 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 2: in an off campus apartment. It's about a fifteen minute 128 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 2: drive from the campus library to her apartment. You know, 129 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: I said, Baker was living alone. She had two roommates. 130 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 2: It kind of hit me in the head. Women she's 131 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 2: got roommates. They had both left earlier that evening for 132 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 2: a weekend trip out of town. Friday morning, all right, 133 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: so we go. Thursday night, she's at the law library 134 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 2: with a friend. Calls a friend to make sure the 135 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 2: friend got home. Tells the friend, I'll be leaving around ten. 136 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: Her roommates are gone for the weekend. We believe she 137 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 2: made it home because of what happened. The next morning, 138 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: nine point thirty, she misses a class. This is not 139 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 2: something she does. Mid morning hours January nineteenth, the Athens, 140 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 2: Clark County firefighters are called to an apartment fire Firefighters 141 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 2: break down a locked door to access the unit. They 142 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 2: find a fire has broken out in the bedroom. It 143 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 2: has burned through the roof. Amongst the rubble, firefighters discover 144 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: the body of a young woman who is later identified 145 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 2: as Tara Baker, so the thumbnail. Thursday night, she meets 146 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 2: a friend at the law library to study. The friend 147 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: bales at seven thirty Terrace, stays there till ten. She 148 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 2: talks to her friend at a quarter to ten, says 149 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: I'll be leaving here at about ten o'clock. That's the 150 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 2: last time we know she had contact with anybody. We 151 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 2: know she go to her apartment because she was found 152 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 2: the next day, so a twelve hour window basically of 153 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: the time we know she was planning to be home 154 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 2: ten PM till basically ten o'clock the next morning, so 155 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 2: a twelve hour window. And in that time period, Joe 156 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 2: something happened that caused her to miss her nine thirty 157 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 2: AM class for firemen to be called because there's a fire. 158 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: So whatever happened happened before nine thirty when she missed 159 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 2: the class. 160 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, just so you understand, one of 161 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 1: the big determinants here when we talk about fire cases 162 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: is you want to know you want to understand causality, Okay, 163 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: because there's any number of ways that fires can start, 164 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: and to be able to examine that, you can have 165 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: natural events which some people will refer to as act 166 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 1: of God, you know, lightning strates like for instance, or 167 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: maybe uh maybe for instance, uh, you know, like like 168 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: our friends out in California experience in other locations out 169 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: west with wildfires, which are you know, essentially acts of God. 170 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: And you can't have an idiot that thumps a cigarette 171 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: out of the window going down the road, and that 172 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: has been known to start those types of things starting 173 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: to think yeah, and so some sometimes. But but that's 174 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 1: the key, isn't it, Dave. When you walk in to 175 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: a scene and there before you are the burned remains 176 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: of a home and the charred body of a young, 177 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: beautiful woman who is working harder than most people can 178 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: even begin to appreciate. You want answers, and unfortunately it 179 00:11:53,360 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: took over two decades to arrive at some answers. Let's 180 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: track back in time here a little bit, back to 181 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: two thousand and one, just for particularly folks that might 182 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: be a bit younger, Dave, this is all occurring before 183 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: nine to eleven happened. You know, we're still months months 184 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: before this that event ever occurred. It was I have 185 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: to say, it was a different world prior to nine 186 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: to eleven. I probably can get you to agree to that. 187 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: More than likely it changed. It changed everything. So you know, 188 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: we had obviously we had the internet, we had news 189 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: on the internet. But when you were mentioning the earlier 190 00:12:55,120 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: case from young Lady Lake and do you do you 191 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: remember and I know you do, because we were right 192 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: in a swirl of it. The media saturation relative to 193 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: that case, how we had data coming in all the time. 194 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: There were articles and things and people making comments. We 195 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: did a podcast about it, I appeared on Nancy Show. 196 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:24,199 Speaker 1: I appeared on national television shows about it. Terra's case 197 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: for the time received some recognition. I don't know how 198 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 1: far and wide this spread, but I do know that 199 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: at the moment in time, and I was still working 200 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: in Georgia at the Medical Examiner's office, this case was 201 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: all over the news in Atlanta because it was such 202 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: you never heard of anything happening like this, and they 203 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: knew that they had a problem early on. They identified 204 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: this case as a homicide. But you know, first off, 205 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: when one of the things you have to consider when 206 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: you're examining a fire scene, you think about the time 207 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: of year it is, that's the first thing that comes 208 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: to mind for me. I have worked more fire deaths 209 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 1: in the winter time than I certainly ever have in 210 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: the summertime. And it's because of heating issues, where you 211 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: have individuals that have turned on a heater for the 212 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: first time when the temperature drops and they don't know 213 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: if it's still functioning. Dave actually had one guy that 214 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: lived in a little shack years and years ago, and 215 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: he had electricity but didn't have a space eater, and 216 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: he had bed bugs and he would kill he would 217 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: kill the bed bugs with kerosene and it's an old 218 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: fashioned remedy. Spray it on the bed. And it got 219 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: so cold that he had two army blankets. He laid 220 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: down with an army blanket over him, and he had 221 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: another army blanket that he wrapped an iron in and 222 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: he plugged it in and slept with the iron and 223 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: it shorted and it killed him. And so you have 224 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: events that occur like this. I've had people in temporary 225 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: shelters before. I had six homeless guys one time that 226 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: were sleep in a shelter right adjacent to the Carter 227 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: Center in Atlanta, in a plywood temporary housing thing that 228 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: they had built for these folks, and they one of 229 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: the guys came in drunk and knocked over the kerosene 230 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: heater and the whole thing went up, like Kenley, So 231 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: weather plays a role in this. So you don't want 232 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: to be predisposed as an investigator to think, Okay, what 233 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: what am I looking at here? Is this actually a 234 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: case involving a short circuit. Is it a case involving 235 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: I don't know. Was there a fireplace or was there 236 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: some other alternative source of heat that maybe? You know 237 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: my family, my granny in her old house, she would 238 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: turn on her gas up and leave the door open 239 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: in order to heat the house, you know, because she 240 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of money. 241 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 2: You put boiling water on this stove, yeah, get high 242 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: and go yeah. 243 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's kind of it kind of forms of cloud, 244 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: you know, a warm cloud. And so when you go 245 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: onto these scenes, that's one of the things you're contemplating 246 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: as an investigator, what's the origin, what's the source of 247 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: a fire like this? And then you know, the specter 248 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: of a potential homicide raises his head, not completely spinds 249 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: your view around. 250 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: That's what I was just going to. This is the 251 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 2: day before George W. Bush is inauguration. Okay, just when 252 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 2: you think about the things that were going on the 253 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 2: day this happened, Bill Clinton was still president of the 254 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 2: United States, he was in his last twenty four hours 255 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 2: of president. And because when we were talking about this, 256 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 2: and you think about she was in town beginning the 257 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 2: spring semester, right that had me thinking that it was 258 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 2: springtime already. It wasn't for the South that time of 259 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 2: January into the first two weeks of February. That's where 260 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 2: we usually have a colder time we did the rest 261 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 2: of the year. 262 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: We do. 263 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 2: And when you have a fire, and in the South, 264 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 2: when you have cold, people do immediately think space heater 265 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 2: or something along those lines. But it is an apartment. 266 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 2: Things are a little different in apartment complex or an 267 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: apartment in general. So when they get to this fire 268 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 2: in the morning, and I'm wondering, Joe, as they put 269 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 2: out the fire, I mean, they're going to be you know, 270 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 2: when firemen come into a place like that, they're scoping 271 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 2: at damage of where the fire started and whare to 272 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: put it out? I mean, isn't that the goal here? 273 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: Well? Yeah, actually they're looking they're going to attack those areas. 274 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: And I love the way firefighters address fire. You know, 275 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 1: they talk alike, they talk like they're in the army. 276 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: It's really how they you know. And they move out 277 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: in teams like this, and they're going to attack a 278 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: central area to knock it down. 279 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 2: But don't they treat it like a living thing? Yeah? 280 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 2: That is consuming oxygen, That it actually has to be killed. 281 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: It does. It does, and I think even de Niro 282 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 1: said famously, and that's a line that they lifted from 283 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: the Fire Service. Mind you, in the movie back Draft, 284 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: there's a soliloquy by Niro. He plays an arson investigator 285 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: in that movie, and he talks about the fire is 286 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: a living, breathing thing. I'd heard that for years prior 287 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: to that, and it was a license that was taken 288 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: by the for that thing. But it's true. It requires 289 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: there there's several things that have to happen. It's called 290 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: an uninhibited chemical reaction. And so you have to have heat, 291 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: a source of heat. Then you have to have an initiator, 292 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: which you know might be gasoline or some other fuel source, 293 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: and then or accelerant force. And then you have to 294 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: have a see what's it called. You have to have 295 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: a fuel source like it could be dry wall, it 296 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: could be carpeting, it could be wood of any kind 297 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: that's placed over an area. And then you have to 298 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: have an uninhibited supply of oxygen. And it's almost like 299 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: a big cycle that goes around. That's how fire works. 300 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: And suddenly you know, at some point in time, fire 301 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,360 Speaker 1: is going to play itself out, you know it. Sometimes 302 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: it takes longer than other times. And when people dump 303 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: gas in areas, that's merely an accelerant. How many folks 304 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: have ever taken gas? I would not, please do not 305 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: do this, all right, but have taken gas, for instance, 306 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: and thrown it into an already burning fire. What does 307 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: it do? It explodes? It's scary, it is, and it 308 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: flashes over. But guess what after that initial flash over, 309 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 1: it dies out really quickly. Now you might be trying 310 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: to initiate that wood or the fuel source that you 311 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: have there to burn more effectively, but after that gas 312 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,920 Speaker 1: is essentially that major component of gas is gone, that 313 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: has been burned away. The fire is now totally dependent 314 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 1: upon the supply of oxygen and the source of fuel 315 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: to continue to burn. Okay. The trick though, in any 316 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: kind of death investigation involving fire is going to be 317 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: surrounding areas because you're going to want to know where 318 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: the most damage is and anything that was being worn 319 00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: by a victim. And because many times with arsenists that 320 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 1: are trying to get rid of a body or evidence, 321 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: they will just splash gas all over a body. And 322 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: I think I've spoken of this before, but just kind 323 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: of as a little primer, we retrieve those those items 324 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: of clothing and also things that are attached to the 325 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: body because sometimes elements get stuck to bodies, to say 326 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: the very to put it politely, We'll collect those at 327 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 1: autopsy and then we keep them and we submit those 328 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,920 Speaker 1: for examination at crime lab for accelerants. And if we 329 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 1: can find a specific accelerant, say if it's a gasoline, 330 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: you can you can get it down to the brand 331 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: Dave because yeah, you know, because gas is gas, contrary 332 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: to what they tell you. You know, what makes it 333 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: different is you ever see these there you go put 334 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: up bump, But what you ever see these commercials for 335 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: gas where they say, well, it's got techron in it, 336 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: whatever the heck guy it is, yeah, and it's got 337 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: these additives that come into it that they claim are 338 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: going to keep your fuel lines clean. That's the designator 339 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: that separates all gases from other gases, because those are 340 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: unique to that corporation or that entity, and they they're trademarked. 341 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: They're trademarked, and so crime labs actually have a list 342 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: of these things. So if they recovered that molecular structure, 343 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: then you can say, okay, well I know that this 344 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: person went to a particular gas station. How many of 345 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: those types of gas stations selling that gas are located 346 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: in proximity to this event? And you see that's a 347 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: big indicator here, So you have to be really careful. 348 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: It seems when you're working these cases. 349 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 2: Well, unbelievable, unbelievable. It never occurred to me that that 350 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 2: would happen. 351 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: But you know, in. 352 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 2: Solving a crime, every piece of evidence comes into play. 353 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 2: Where that accelerant came from, who bought that, and now 354 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 2: with everything in surveillance cameras down right too, when that 355 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 2: was bought. But back to Tara for just a minute here. 356 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 2: When the fireman approached the apartment, they find that the 357 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 2: fire is burning through the roof in a bedroom and 358 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 2: I'm thinking in my mind, I'm envisioning that there's a 359 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 2: fire on the bed that's been piled you know, we 360 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 2: have terror on the bed right right, and the fire 361 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 2: is going straight up. That has the fire spread throughout 362 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 2: the entire apartment or is it isolated to that room? 363 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 2: And that event of her body is there to destroy 364 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 2: the body and as the first cause. 365 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, her body either being on the bed or adjacent 366 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: to the bed and right you are about that day. 367 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: Because you look for the area that has the most destruction. 368 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: Isn't rocket science, Okay, Wherever you have the most destruction 369 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: is where the heaviest concentration of heat is going to be, 370 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: which is the byproduct of fire, and the hotter the area, 371 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: the more destruction. And the reason it's going through the roof, 372 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: what's the fire doing. It's seeking the oxygen, Okay, and 373 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: it will do anything I say it like it's an entity. 374 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 2: But again, it has to have oxygen. 375 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the fire is seeking, it's seeking a fuel supply, 376 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: you know, that uninhibited flow of oxygen. And so that's 377 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: why if you if you see a case and I've 378 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: you know, I've worked many that are like this where 379 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 1: you have evidence of searing or smoke damage on the roof, 380 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: you know that this seeing is probably burned for a while, 381 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: that it took a bit of time for the fire 382 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: service to get there and knock this thing down. And 383 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: so you're looking at this and you're thinking, well, if 384 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: I'm seeing this externally, oh my lord, it is going 385 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: to be really really damaged inside the residents. Dave mac 386 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you one of the most intriguing things 387 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: that you mentioned about Terra's case was the length of 388 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: time between when she was last seen and when the 389 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: fire was discovered. Keep in mind, schools back in session. 390 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: There's people on campus, there's people in habit and you 391 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: go to place like Athens, those apartments are filled and 392 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: more than likely they're filled with kids that are there 393 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: for school, they're living off campus. Somebody's going to take notice. 394 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: They're going to take notice, particularly that time of day 395 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 1: when people are up and running. I mean, you remember 396 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: what it was like. You know in college, that time 397 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: of is kind of like you've got to take classes 398 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: at that time of day. You know you're going to 399 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: be heading out and people are going to notice this. 400 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: So you've got a fire burning this intensely, but yet 401 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: it's suddenly noticed. That time gap, to me is kind 402 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: of intriguing as an investigator. 403 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 2: That's why I was trying to get into that, because 404 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 2: there are certain things that we know about Tara's last 405 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 2: twenty four hour of life. I mean, and it is 406 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 2: because she was in school, and because she was a 407 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 2: creature of habit, and because here we are just starting 408 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 2: back in the semester, and where is she in the 409 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 2: law library studying they just took back in session, and 410 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 2: she's already putting in the work. She meets a friend 411 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 2: there who the friend bails at seven thirty and Tara's 412 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 2: there for another two and a half hours. That's who 413 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 2: she was. And so knowing that, realizing she wasn't one 414 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 2: to go out gambling about, you know, she went home. 415 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 2: And we have this time period just ten o'clock at 416 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 2: night because that's when we know she left the library 417 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 2: or was planning on leaving the library and heading home. 418 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 2: So ten pm we have no contact with her other 419 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 2: than what I'm aware of. Now. If I'm wrong, please 420 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 2: please please correct me. But ten pm we know she's 421 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 2: heading to her apartment. Now, was because this was an 422 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 2: unsolved crime for many many years, was the suspect laying 423 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 2: in wait? Had he been watching the apartment? There were 424 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 2: two other roommates, but they were gone for the weekend? 425 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,120 Speaker 1: Important point right there, Yeah. 426 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 2: Because I'm wondering was this somebody that knew them? Was 427 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 2: this friend of one of them that knew Tara was 428 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 2: going to be alone for the weekend that her roommates 429 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 2: were gone. 430 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: I think, boyd, that's you know, and that's That's a 431 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: big reveal there when you think about that. Who would 432 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,399 Speaker 1: have four knowledge of the fact that these two would 433 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: be out of pocket for that period of time to 434 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: show a woman to be isolated in this And you know, 435 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: first off, I was thinking, well, for those that have 436 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: never seen it, I have just allowed me indulge me 437 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 1: and let me describe it to you. This this Law 438 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: library at Uga is how can I describe it? Cavernous? 439 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: It's it's vast, there's all kinds of points of observation. 440 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,719 Speaker 2: Are you suggesting somebody was watching her? It could have been. 441 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 2: And that big? It is that big. 442 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: And also the thing about it the Uga campus is, 443 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: you know, I guess some people use the term bucolic. 444 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: It kind of rolls. There's a lot of old oak trees, 445 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: dark spaces hedges, all those sorts of things, and it's 446 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: really well manicured. But if somebody's laying in wait out 447 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: there in the dark, waiting for this young woman to leave, 448 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 1: maybe they had targeted her before this time. They had 449 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: an awareness of her and she probably fit a type. 450 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: Because most predators do in fact have a type. Some 451 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 1: of them are opportunity. They'll take the first victim they 452 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: can but sometimes they have a type of person that 453 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: kind of slips onto their radar where they they look 454 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: for the opportunity. But the fact that the roommates would 455 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: have been gone is something that is going to give 456 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 1: give me an idea here that you have to be 457 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 1: going through the backgrounds of the roommates very thoroughly. And 458 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:26,959 Speaker 1: they might even have an awareness of it. It might 459 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 1: be a peripheral. Maybe they said something while they're sitting 460 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: around drinking coffee. We know me and you know, and 461 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: she and I are both going out of town this weekend, 462 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:38,719 Speaker 1: and all you got, you know, Ef Hutton. They're kind 463 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: of leaning in and they kind of hear this, and 464 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 1: what a horrible thing, you know, to think about. But here, 465 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: here's here's the problem, Dave. We've got this huge gap 466 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: of time. This fire did not initiate overnight. This fire 467 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: is burning in the morning. People are just taking notice 468 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: of it. That leaves this time from when she was 469 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: lasting at the law library until she's finally found by 470 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: fire service in there the next morning. What what happened 471 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: during that time? What had she gone through? Look, what 472 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 1: did she even do her? 473 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 2: Here's my question, Joe. We know that firemen are there 474 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 2: they're called to put this fire out. And in an apartment, 475 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 2: I'm going to guess here that normally the fireman would 476 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 2: be called by the person that lives in the apartment saying, hey, 477 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 2: I started a fire, I can't get it out. Help, 478 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 2: you know, in this case, they were called because somebody 479 00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 2: saw the fire coming through the roof of the apartment, right, 480 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 2: And I don't know that they expected to see a victim, because, 481 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 2: to be honest with you, she was supposed to be 482 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 2: in class at nine thirty that morning and this is 483 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 2: after that. 484 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so how you know this is a bold 485 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: thing if you're going to be a fire setter. Most 486 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: most fire setters do the sort of thing at night. 487 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: And I was looking at the layout of of where, 488 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: you know, where this event actually occurred, and the old 489 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: address was one sixty Fawn Drive in Athens, and it's 490 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: it's it's a collection of kind of the road is 491 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: kind of I don't know, it's curvy that goes through here, 492 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: but there's two outlets. There's not a cul de sac 493 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: on this road, so it's almost it's not truly a 494 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: through road, but it is a connecting road that you 495 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: can get out to other major arteries. So if an 496 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: individual is walking away from it, just walking down sidewalk casually, 497 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: hoping that no one notices the fire, he might appear 498 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: to be innocuous at that point in time. I don't 499 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: know that anybody saw anybody sprinting away because I don't 500 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 1: know about you, men, But when I'm around fire, if 501 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: it's out of control, I want to get away from 502 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: it as quickly as I possibly can. No, with all 503 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: of my hair and skin intactooed and all of my clothing. 504 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 2: All right, Well, how do you know, Joe, when you've 505 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 2: got a fire that requires firemen to show up, they 506 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 2: put the fire out and find the body of a woman. Yeah, 507 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 2: and I know that according to the UH, I guess 508 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 2: the police are the ones that actually revealed that Baker 509 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 2: was beaten, that she was stabbed, strangled, and potentially sexually assaulted. 510 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 2: How in the world it's hard we're going to find 511 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 2: out all this? 512 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my gosh, it's so difficult, Dave, so very difficult. 513 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: So many changes occur to the body. And let me 514 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: tell you, just from the scene, what would have happened. 515 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: What do we know about the fire, what draw it 516 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: to the attention of a of a passer by. What 517 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: did you say, just a moment ago they saw the 518 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 1: fire going through the roof. Yeah, and guess what happens. 519 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: People don't think about this, but if you have a 520 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: fire that is involving the roof, guess what happens to 521 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: the ceilings in those rooms that collapse. So you've got 522 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: you've got the studs in the ceiling, You've got. 523 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 2: I got to stock you. My thought, Joe, I'm not kidding. 524 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 2: My thought was that you have the bedroom, you have 525 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 2: the bed, you have Tara on the bed, And to 526 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 2: be honest with you, in my mind, I was picturing 527 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:08,719 Speaker 2: stuff thrown on top of her that would act as 528 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 2: some type of fuel for the fire. That the fire 529 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 2: is lit and it goes straight up from the bed 530 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 2: and Tara and burns a hole in the ceiling and 531 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 2: burns a hole in the roof. That's what I was thinking. 532 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 2: And that's not the case. 533 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: No, it causes, it compromises the strength structurally and so 534 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: and it goes pretty quickly and it will collapse, particularly 535 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: when they start hitting it with water. This is the 536 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: other thing that folks don't realize. Did you know that? 537 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: Like the when you take sheet rock, for instance, that's 538 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: made out of gypsum. When you hit that with water, 539 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: guess what it turns into inside of a fire scene 540 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: when you can when you when you combine it with 541 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: all of the other chart and it turns to mud. 542 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: And so you're slogging through all of this and there's 543 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: like pieces of wood other debris that have collapsed in 544 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 1: and in one sense it protects the body, but in 545 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: the other sense it erases evidence and the fact that 546 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:16,480 Speaker 1: with Terra they were able to identify sharp force injuries, 547 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: blunt force injuries, which means she was struck probably multiple times. 548 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: And I think the most glaring is that she was 549 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 1: asphyxiated somehow, perhaps with ligature or hands. And you will 550 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: see you will see this externally. Even I've had cases 551 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 1: where people have been stabbed and cut and have been burned, 552 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: you can still see the insized injuries. Here's the problem, though, 553 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: As the body heats up, it hardens and it cracks. 554 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: People don't realize that that the remains actually cracked. The 555 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: skin cracks because you've got skin overlining a layer of fat, 556 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 1: and as that cooks, it begins to split. And so 557 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: being able to delineate between a sharp force injury and 558 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: a fire related artifact, which is what these are called. 559 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: It's a fire related artifact that presents on the body. 560 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: It takes these autopsies, Dave take hours, hours to do 561 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,560 Speaker 1: because you're having to it's almost like putting together a 562 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: jigsaw puzzle in mud because your vision is so compromised. 563 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: That's why X rays are really important. Many times you'll 564 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 1: X ray fire bodies. You'll find nails, you'll find screws, 565 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,800 Speaker 1: anything else that's around this area that may have fallen 566 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: into the bag with the body when you're collecting them. 567 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: Because most of the time you don't x ray the 568 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: body outside of the back. You put the plates under 569 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: the bag and you x ray the bodies while they're 570 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 1: in there. So you have to account for all of 571 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: this as you're going along. And also with fire, yes, 572 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 1: you're thinking, well where they shot and if they were shot, 573 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: are there going to be a little lead storm in 574 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 1: there or maybe an intact projectile. So my gosh, man, 575 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: it takes hours to make your way through it. Then 576 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:18,240 Speaker 1: on top of it, if that wasn't enough, fire fractures bone. 577 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: The hotter the fire gets, particularly with the skull, the 578 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: skull will begin to first off, the brain boils and 579 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: it splits the skin outside the fire does the brain 580 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: will boil almost not totally, but the liquid portion. Because 581 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,759 Speaker 1: the brain is not as firm as you might think 582 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: it is in life. The brain will begin to expand 583 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: inside the cranial vault, and the heat externally, combined with 584 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,879 Speaker 1: the internal events going on, will actually cause these kind 585 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: of heat fractures in the skull. So you have to 586 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: make your way through that. Is this related to say, 587 00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: blunt force trauma or is this related to an artifact? 588 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 2: Uh? 589 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,919 Speaker 1: After after the fire has passed. Uh, So you've got 590 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: the calculus in this thing. Fire fire deaths are a 591 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: lot harder to work, for instance, than even decompos decomposed bodies, 592 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: because you the body is continuing to be traumatized after death. 593 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 1: The human remains. So it's a it's a tough thing. 594 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: But but here's here's I think my point. Whatever they 595 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: assessed at the time of her autopsy, Dave, they were 596 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: able to recognize these three types of trauma which would 597 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: be manifested internally. So if you've got a choking event 598 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: or strangulation event, you'll see hemorrhage in the soft tissues 599 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,240 Speaker 1: of the neck, stab wounds you will have a track 600 00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: that is making its way through certain organ systems. You 601 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: can pick up on that. The bludgeoning might be a 602 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: bit more difficult. If it's a beating type type of event, 603 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: you might can find areas of hemorrhage, but you really 604 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 1: have to walk a find line there where you're trying 605 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: to assess what happened anti mortem and post mortem. But 606 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: here's the real thing here, this is where the truth 607 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 1: comes out. They've they've used the term sodomy here. They're 608 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: saying that she was sodomized. Now that means many different 609 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:34,680 Speaker 1: things to different people, but she was sexually assaulted. So 610 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: if she was sexually assaulted, knowing what we know now, 611 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: they were able to glean some type of biological sample 612 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 1: from her, I think probably through a rate kit possibly, 613 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,439 Speaker 1: And they've been holding onto this all these years trying 614 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: to explore and it would not surprise me in the 615 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: least bit if potentially familial forensic genetic DNA genealogy was 616 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: not involved in this, because it's taken all of this time, 617 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: they have some kind of biological sample. Because Dave, it 618 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: appears that DNA has unlocked the answers in this case. 619 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 2: The part about this that again we talked about it earlier, 620 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 2: the death of Lake and Riley that opened up the 621 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,160 Speaker 2: exercise of unsolved crimes in this area of the state, 622 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 2: and this was one that was mentioned Joe. It had 623 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 2: been an unsolved crime for so long, and we have 624 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 2: had in the last ten years DNA becoming front and 625 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 2: center on unsolved cold cases. At what point do the 626 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:58,360 Speaker 2: investigators decide it's time to run this through the database 627 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 2: or is there another way? I mean, I know you 628 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 2: have CODIS and we're developing a DNA thing like cotis, 629 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 2: But at what point do they send this off and say, 630 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 2: here's what we've got to see if you can find 631 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 2: a match. Are we going to how are we going 632 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,719 Speaker 2: to what are we going to do? Genetic genealogy? Are 633 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 2: we going to twenty three and meters? How do they 634 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 2: go about doing that? 635 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: Well, they're going to exhaust every every potential possibility to have. 636 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: CODIS is going to be the first stop along the 637 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,320 Speaker 1: continuum here to see if you can get a viable 638 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:34,160 Speaker 1: sample at that particular time. Does it go back to 639 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 1: any individual that is already pre existing in the CODIS database, 640 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 1: and there's two sections to CODIS, you have those individuals 641 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 1: that are known that are part of the databank, that 642 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: have committed some kind of crime that would compel the 643 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: state to take a sample from them and enter them 644 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,239 Speaker 1: into that database. Then you have the unknown or it 645 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 1: has in the past, it's been referred to as the 646 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: forensic database, and that is DNA samples from locations where 647 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 1: you you do not have a perpetrator. They're unknown cases, 648 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:14,759 Speaker 1: and they can get a hit off those. So if 649 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: you've got a if you've got like say, two cases 650 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: in Mississippi and Alabama, and maybe you've got another one 651 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: in Tennessee, and all of a sudden you have a 652 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 1: fourth one that occurs in Georgia, that's going to give 653 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: you an indication that the the donor of that of 654 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: that sample is migrating about. You just don't know who 655 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:39,279 Speaker 1: they are at this point, tom My, you know this 656 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 1: this case is so over the top, Dave. It's really 657 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 1: hard to believe that that this individual would not have 658 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 1: acted out sexually before, because this is a very violent 659 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:55,040 Speaker 1: event where I think, actually, for you know, my two cents, 660 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,760 Speaker 1: I think that he probably held her in that residence 661 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,879 Speaker 1: for some time. Remember they're all alone, and what were 662 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: we looking at is like twelve twelve hours, twelve hours 663 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: for the fire has ever seen. So yeah, was this 664 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 1: an all night event that went on where this individual 665 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: perhaps tortured her throughout the night, where he beat her repeatedly, 666 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:18,200 Speaker 1: choked her repeatedly without killing her, or stabbed her, or 667 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 1: you know, inflicted in sized wounds which are slices over 668 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:23,319 Speaker 1: a period of time. 669 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,839 Speaker 2: What we know is that during that twelve hours, Joe, 670 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 2: a wonderful, beautiful, smart, loving person, was taken from planet Earth. 671 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 2: And we now have, after twenty three years, we've had 672 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 2: somebody in custody. The police have arrested Edric Lamont Faust. 673 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 2: You mentioned this early on how that name would come 674 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 2: into play. He was twenty five at the time of 675 00:41:56,239 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 2: this murder. He's now forty eight. He has been charged 676 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 2: with felony murder, two counts malice murder, aggravated assault, possession 677 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,800 Speaker 2: of a knife during the commission of a crime, aggravated soatomy, 678 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 2: concealing the death of another person, tampering with evidence, and 679 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:18,400 Speaker 2: first degree arson Joe. Based on these charges, police learned 680 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 2: a lot. Because they've got possession of a knife during 681 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,840 Speaker 2: the commission of a crime. Doesn't that mean that he 682 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 2: brought it to the department. 683 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that it probably does. And what 684 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,279 Speaker 1: we don't know because the investigation from the perspective of 685 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: and hear me right, from the perspective of the fact 686 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,239 Speaker 1: that they have effected, finally affected and arrest, this investigation 687 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 1: is kind of beginning anew you know now, because you 688 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 1: have a target. Now, what we don't know is was 689 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,160 Speaker 1: the knife a leave behind or did they find it 690 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 1: on his person when he was arrested. Which while that 691 00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: many years after the fact, I would list more towards 692 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:05,880 Speaker 1: having left behind and those injuries would have been assessed, 693 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 1: the sharpforce injuries would have been assessed based upon the 694 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: physical evidence that that particular type of knife or knife 695 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 1: style would have left behind. And they have a lot 696 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,360 Speaker 1: to work with here. And you know, keep in mind, 697 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,760 Speaker 1: Faust has only been charged. He has not been convicted. 698 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:28,839 Speaker 1: He'll have his day in court. But something interesting came 699 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:36,800 Speaker 1: up as a result of Terra's homicide. The Georgia State Assembly, 700 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: the General Assembly, actually passed a law called the Coleman 701 00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:41,959 Speaker 1: Baker Act. 702 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 2: And it. 703 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,120 Speaker 1: The other victim that's named in this case or in 704 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,719 Speaker 1: this law is a lady named Ronda Sue Coleman and 705 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,360 Speaker 1: she was murdered in Hazel. Her steort are back in 706 00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety. And what this act actually does, Dave, is 707 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:07,880 Speaker 1: it it provides families with access to the files in 708 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 1: these cold cases so that they can work alongside the police, 709 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,520 Speaker 1: that they can go back and see where the police are. 710 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 1: And this thing was just filed in twenty twenty three. 711 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 1: It was just written into law at that particular time, 712 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: because you know, families are so frustrated. I can't even 713 00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:29,719 Speaker 1: even though I've worked these cases over the years, these 714 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 1: cold cases, I can not even begin to put myself 715 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,320 Speaker 1: in the position of families and the grief, the constant 716 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 1: grief that they're faced with. But this one little shining 717 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:44,439 Speaker 1: light is beaming through, and unfortunately it's in the wake 718 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 1: of the snuffing out of another shining light. Terror Baker 719 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,759 Speaker 1: died when she was only twenty one years old, just 720 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,520 Speaker 1: off campus of the University of Georgia. I'm Joseph Scott 721 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is Boddie Bags 722 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 2: Mm hmm.