1 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: Luteus. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. 2 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: You're listening to Software Radio, special operations, military mails and 3 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys and the community. Hey, what's 4 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: going on. This is rad the host of Software Radio, 5 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: and I have a very special guest today, one that 6 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: I've been really working with trying to get him on 7 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: the show, and he finally was able to get on. 8 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: I'm super excited to have Derek Leebart with me. And 9 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 1: he is the author of Unlikely Heroes, which is about 10 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: the men, the Four Men, specifically, you know these horsemen 11 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: that surrounded Franklin Delano Roosevelt during the FDR time time. 12 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: When we're talking, you know, World War two is going on, 13 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: the new deals being brought up, Democracy is on thin ice. 14 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: It's almost like history is repeating itself right now. But 15 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: I want to welcome you to the show and thank 16 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: you Derek, well, thank you Red. Indeed, Now with that said, 17 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 1: do you see being such a you know, a person 18 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: who knows just about everything to going on with FDR 19 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 1: during that time, do you see any similarities to today 20 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: and then that just just like hits you right off 21 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: the bat. Absolutely so, And that's one driving reason that 22 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: brought me to this subject. The similarities perhaps not as 23 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: extreme between the Great Depression years the World War two 24 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: years and today we're encountering extremities of our own, with 25 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: economic turmoil, inequality, and altered American role in the world, 26 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: as well as other issues that were significant for that 27 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: long twelve year presidency of Franklin Roosevelt. One can even 28 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: think of climate change in that era in the mid thirties, 29 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: it was the dust bowl that eviscerated so much Midwestern farmland. 30 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: One can think of the challenges of a war in Europe, 31 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: which we now at a different level are encountering again, 32 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: the need for military preparedness and a severely divided America. 33 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: Certainly during the Depression we talk about polarization today, it 34 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 1: was extraordinarily polarized then, oftentimes between halves and halves, notts. 35 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:58,400 Speaker 1: So all the extremity of those dozen years, one can 36 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: indeed extract lessons for today, lessons on leadership, on preparedness, 37 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: and how we can better unify ourselves. Right, so we 38 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: can kind of take the lessons that we have learned 39 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: and apply them to today to stop that situation from 40 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 1: happening now. Back in the day thirties and forties, and 41 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: the war going on. Even early in the late twenties, 42 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, they had a pandemic, they had you know, 43 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: nineteen eighteen with the flu, and then they had the 44 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: Roaring twenties where they had to recover from the same 45 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: type of scenarios that we're currently dealing with today. And 46 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: then you have leadership within of our own you know, 47 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: political sphere here that we're also sympathizers to, Like they're 48 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: German Americans, you know, perhaps are their bloodlines go over 49 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: to Germany, and they're like, we're not so mad that 50 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 1: Germany's doing what it's doing, and they're like, you know, 51 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: wielding power within our Congress and our Senate. You know, 52 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: what I try to do in all my books is 53 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: extract lessons for today, particularly lessons on leadership. As you know, 54 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: a previous book of mine, To Dare and to Conquer, 55 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: concerned special operations and how special operations military elites have 56 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: altered courses of history over the last three millennia. So 57 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: I regard history as such a rich, entertaining reservoir from 58 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: which we can extract lessons to apply to our own 59 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: lives and circumstances. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Now, do you feel 60 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 1: that today's new Deal is kind of in the same 61 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,479 Speaker 1: compass as you know, FDR's New Deal, Like, you know, 62 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: how we're talking about these new deals. It's not just 63 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: a you know, a current new branded bill or proposal. 64 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: The new deal, it's based off of like what FDR 65 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,240 Speaker 1: brought around. Well, you're entirely right. There's a lot of 66 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 1: talk in Washington, certainly in the current administration about a 67 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: new deal, and in the Oval Office itself hangs the 68 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: portrait of Franklin Roosevelt. And indeed the current president is 69 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: certainly the last president that's likely to be born of 70 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: the nineteen thirties of the FDR era. Now, the New Deal, 71 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: by definition, was a vast program of reforms, projects, new institutions. 72 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 1: But we have to be careful with what we wish 73 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: for when we talk about a new deal. The New 74 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: Deal also was a reflection of larger than life figures 75 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: in American politics, figures like Franklin Roosevelt and his four 76 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: closest lieutenants whom I call his most intimate associates, and 77 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: that would have been and Harry Hopkins, who was the 78 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: de facto Secretary of Public Welfare, Harold Ikey's a phenomenally 79 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: powerful Secretary of the Interior, Francis Perkins, the first woman 80 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: to be in a presidential cabinet, serving as Secretary of Labor, 81 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: and Henry Wallace, who ran the biggest government department, which 82 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: was Agriculture and then it was elected Vice president in 83 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: nineteen forty. At the time, during the celebrity crazed nineteen thirties, 84 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: these were enormous figures, and indeed, by the war they 85 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: would become globally recognized. These four are the only individuals 86 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: who served with FDR at the very top of government 87 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: from the beginning ninety years ago. This weekend March fourth, 88 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty three, he was inaugurated under the old constitutional 89 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 1: calendar until the very end until he died on April twelfth, 90 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: nineteen forty five. At that era, a cabinet official was 91 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: indeed regarded as a statesman, as a celebrity. Today we 92 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: have so many countervailing forces think tank, social media, etc. 93 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: But if you were a cabinet officer in that era, 94 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: and there are only ten of them, you were considered 95 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: part of the president's official family. Oftentimes there would be 96 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: nineteen guns and Newts when you would go to visiting 97 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: the city. Your speeches were chronicled constantly in the newspaper. 98 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: So in many ways, that level of celebrity politics, of 99 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: big man politics is not or should not be the 100 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: best approach for America to governance. So when we talk 101 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: about a new Deal, we're implicitly asking for these larger 102 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: than life officials and might not be the best of ideas. Yeah, 103 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: careful what you wish for, right the journey could be 104 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: coming out of the bottle, and it might be fun 105 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: for the first two wishes. The ideals of the New 106 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: Deal itself were very very American. When we think of 107 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: the New Deal, it's easy to caricature it as a 108 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: form of collectivism, or as Republicans then and today would 109 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: describe it as a form of socialism. But the way 110 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: that FDR and as four lieutenants saw the New Deal, 111 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 1: it was the highest order of individualism in their eyes, 112 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: because it ensured that no American would be without healthcare, 113 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: would be prejudiced because of his class or color or 114 00:08:55,800 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: national background, that social security came from security indeed, and 115 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 1: this would enable individualism and a new deal for farmers, 116 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: the Agricultural Compact. So when FDR and his closest associate 117 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: spoke of the New Deal, it was not simply another 118 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: brand of collectivism. They saw it as empowering the American 119 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: individual against what was then as today a very powerful 120 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: corporate state. And FDR and lieutenants would often say, there 121 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:39,319 Speaker 1: have been so many handouts, so many benefits to big corporations, 122 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: certainly of that era, railroads, mining companies, that now we're 123 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: going to give the rest of the country a shot. 124 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: And during the depression it was not as easy as saying, oh, 125 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: pull yourself up by your bootstraps, rugged individualism. This was 126 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: the first time that the American government acknowledged it had 127 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: a role in protecting its vulnerable citizens in peacetime as 128 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: during war. So he's just so. FDR was just think 129 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: taking with his lieutenants of how to strengthen the individual 130 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: by giving them the means to have a sole security 131 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: coming in to keep them on their feet if they 132 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: met the criteria, you know, which is I think you 133 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: have to be in your sixties right to start, you know, 134 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: recuperating those things. But still it's there. And then you know, 135 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: he wanted to have healthcare. How come we have Why 136 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: do you think it's such a hard thing for us 137 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: to grab onto healthcare? Is it just capitalism versus you know, 138 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 1: neighborly being that way to one another? Do you feel 139 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: healthcare was the one great accomplishment that the Roosevelt administration 140 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: could not deliver. And Francis Perkins, the Secretary of Labor, 141 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: who was really the point person of so many of 142 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: these social programs, said at the end of this adventure 143 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty five that this was her greatest disappointment 144 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: that equal access to quality healthcare could not be provided 145 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: to Americans, that healthcare was not to be regarded as 146 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: a human right. Now, Why was that not accomplished? It 147 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 1: was very easy. It was the physicians lobby, the American 148 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,239 Speaker 1: Medical Association at that time, which was the most powerful 149 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: healthcare lobby. Today it's likely to be the American Hospital 150 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,719 Speaker 1: Association and Big Pharma, But at that time it was 151 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: the American Medical Association which denounced healthcare as a human 152 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 1: right as socialism. And it went nowhere, yeah, and it 153 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: just like right there. So they just had the power 154 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: to bring in the guillotine and just cut it right 155 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: there because they're like nobody. And in that era, healthcare 156 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: was not as exorbitantly expendeth as it is today. Today, 157 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: at least half the bankruptcies in America, the personal bankruptcies, 158 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: come from our medical bills, which are unsustainable. We might 159 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 1: have insurance, for example, but still a family can run 160 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: up tens of thousands of dollars in debt. At that time, 161 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: healthcare was not so exorbitant. And Francis Perkins, again the 162 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: point person of the social policies, had a very clear 163 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,959 Speaker 1: definition of what fairness was. She said, fairness is one 164 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: a working man does not have to give up his 165 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: entire month's salary to take a baby to a physician. 166 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 1: That was her measuring stick. And as you know today, 167 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: so many times our fellow citizens have to think twice 168 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: about going to a physician, or taking a child to 169 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: a physician, or themselves. Yeah, it's you know, we shudder 170 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: at like, oh, I don't want to go pay one 171 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: hundred dollar copay at the er. I don't want to 172 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 1: have to, you know, if you have insurance, if you're 173 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: fortunate to even have insurance. And these inequities are not 174 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: a question of left or right. There are not a 175 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: question if you're a Republican or a Democrat or that's 176 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: what Saint Francis Perkins would have argued, it's a question 177 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:32,560 Speaker 1: of basic fairness and of Americanism. Another issue of that 178 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: time was the extraordinary gap between the average worker and 179 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:44,959 Speaker 1: the average corporate CEO, which today is laughable because FDR, 180 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:51,599 Speaker 1: you're denounced that a CEO might be making ten times 181 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: perhaps more than his average worker on the assembly line. 182 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: And today, as you know, it's so whacked out that 183 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: an average CEO would make three hundred and fifty times 184 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: the average working age of the American So these are 185 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:14,839 Speaker 1: the issues that FDR and his four closest associates wrestled with, 186 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: and indeed you can save many commonalities to today. Yeah, 187 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: it's true. You know, I do run my own business, 188 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: and we have a philosophy my partner and I, and 189 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: it's like to keep it real right, So my staff 190 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: and I we all work together. We're all on the 191 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: same thing together, so we all pretty much pull in 192 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: the same thing together. I do own it. I do 193 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: put my neck on the line. I do put everything 194 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: I have in my business in front of me. You know, 195 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: this is everything I've got. So I'm going to be 196 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: a little bit more protective, and that comes with a 197 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: little bit more pay all right, but it's just a 198 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: little bit more. It's what you would expect. It's not 199 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: this ten thirty six hundred times your manager's salary while 200 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: you're still like expecting him to do twenty five different jobs, yes, 201 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: for that same pay, just like while you can milk it. 202 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, so I go in to help 203 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: offset that. So when we think of why so many 204 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: Americans today as that that error, are aggrieved, it's not 205 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: too difficult to point to many of the same underlying problems. 206 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: Leave aside racial issues, but these questions of economic fairness, 207 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: of healthcare, of inequities between the unions and the cloud 208 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: of a multinational corporation. These are not left right issues, 209 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: certainly not in my mind, but they're ones that resonate 210 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: with all of us. And indeed, what FDR encountered during 211 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: the thirties was political extremism from the left and from 212 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: the right, because by nineteen thirty three, at the depths 213 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: of the depression, it was very much a question of 214 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: not allowing your farm to be foreclosed. In Nebraska, for example, 215 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: you and your neighbors would band together and you would 216 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: keep the sheriff's at bay. There was much incipient violence, 217 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: especially in the in the Midwest, on the plains, and 218 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: in the West itself. And FDR was completely aware of 219 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: the prospect of a revolution in the United States without exaggeration. 220 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: Hard to brand it, left, hard to brand it, right, 221 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:38,239 Speaker 1: But it was deep grievance that was boiling over. Yeah, revolution, 222 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: you know, And that's that's the word that is. You know, 223 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: it's not a civil war and it's a revolution, right, 224 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: that's where you want to see change within itself. And 225 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: so i'd imagine all these farmers. Yeah, you know, I 226 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: do know the history, right, I have been in class. 227 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: I do know. This is not nothing new you're telling 228 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: I understand that history. Lesson Why don't other people that 229 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: have been Why are they just not seeing what's happening 230 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: today versus what happened then, which is very similar on paper? Right? Well, 231 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: you and me and your listeners, Yes, we have an 232 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: appreciation for history, but so many of our fellow citizens 233 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 1: lead such extremely busy, pressured lives that opening a history 234 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: book can be a luxury. What I try to offer 235 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 1: our stories that present history in ways that engage individuals 236 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: and can be entertaining. That's the best type of history 237 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: to write, not the type of turn to textbooks that 238 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: we remember from high school. But history to me has 239 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: always been so thrilling because at its best it's truly 240 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: acute storytelling and exciting and adventures. And when we think 241 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: of FDR crippled from folio, crippled being the word of 242 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: the time. And each of those four closest associates were 243 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: crippled in their own way. For example, Harry Hopkins was 244 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: wrecked with ulcers and then had two thirds of his 245 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: stomach removed from stomach cancer. Harold Ikeys was bipolar by 246 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 1: any definition. Henry Wallace had an intellect that the New 247 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: York Times described as freakish, and the distanced him from 248 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: so many lesser intelligent people. FDR understood these individual vulnerabilities 249 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 1: as he understood the vulnerability of the nation, and he 250 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 1: raised up these foursome and allowed them to soar. Now 251 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: with FDR, he was elected three times, rights, four times, 252 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: four times. Last one was in nineteen forty four. Yeah, 253 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: four times elective. Not like I'm just going to try 254 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: to roll into it. It It was elections. Yes, When he 255 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: ran for a third term, it broke the president set 256 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: by none either than George Washington. No president had dared 257 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: run for a third term. And indeed there was talk 258 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: of a military coup at that time as well, because 259 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: of forces on the right turning against FDR in nineteen forty. 260 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:29,239 Speaker 1: So it was a dramatic time of countless convulsions. We 261 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: talk of breaking the norms today, during the Great Depression 262 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,440 Speaker 1: in World War two, all kinds of so called norms 263 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: were being broken. Yeah, they were right. And he enabled 264 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: the conscriptions, right, FDR. He brought in you know, the 265 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 1: draft for yeah, right, and got that going. And so 266 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: he was able to get the American young man family. 267 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: Let's just say they're families like you know, hey, my 268 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 1: sixteen year old sons trying to join the war effort. 269 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 1: You know, he's often trying to join the war effort. 270 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: Or seventeen eighteen year old got through and got into 271 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: the war effort. And now they're out there fighting on 272 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 1: the beaches, are getting ready to go and do all 273 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 1: that Storm and Norman kind of stuff that you know 274 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: we've learned about. You know, FDR was able to bring 275 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 1: the country together to do that. Right, and then if 276 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: you want to flash forwards kind of like Vietnam conscription, 277 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,239 Speaker 1: it was not so welcome. It was like, no, this 278 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: ain't my war man. I'm not going over there, you know, 279 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: I don't want to go. I'm going up to Canada, 280 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to Mexico. But during FDR, everyone was like, yeah, 281 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: I will go because they saw the dire need of 282 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: really good versus evil happening utterly, and civilization was itself 283 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: at stake. If we consider the armed might not just 284 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 1: ib Nazi Germany, but indeed of the Soviet Union. And 285 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: we can't forget that the Soviet Union until June nineteen 286 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: forty one, it was closely allied with the Nazis, and 287 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: to that end, tyranny sat from the English Channel all 288 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: the way to the Pacific. So there were dire, dire threats. 289 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: But there are two points I want to make, one 290 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 1: on domestic policy during the nineteen thirties, the other for 291 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: the war years during the forties. During the New Deal, 292 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: FDR was criticized very very much by liberal Americans and 293 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: by the left for not being progressive enough. There was 294 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: great pressure in nineteen thirty three to nationalize the banks, 295 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: and arguably the banks would have been happy to be 296 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: nationalized as they were collapsing. The mining industry begged the 297 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: White House to nationalize all of it because it was 298 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: economically untenable as the mines were closing during the Great Depression. 299 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 1: But FDR was a died in the wool aristocratic capitalist 300 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: and such nationalization policies call them what you will, didn't 301 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: occur to him, and he negated all of that. So 302 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: he during the nineteen thirties not only saved democracy but 303 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: also saved the traditional American capitalist system. And then during 304 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:27,719 Speaker 1: World War Two he proved himself a phenomenal warlord because 305 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 1: so many of his idiosyncrasies his ability to evaluate talent. 306 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: For example, he was able to find the best of 307 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,239 Speaker 1: the best military commanders and in turn to raise them up. 308 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:47,159 Speaker 1: And he had a very acute intelligence himself, which so 309 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: many historians overlook. That he was an expert at Lodistic's 310 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: climate geography, all of which came into play during the war. 311 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: His one great failing, of course, was that he underestimated 312 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: the Postalin and that indeed opened up Eastern Europe to 313 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: Soviet conquest by nineteen forty four. Yeah, that he was 314 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: just in kind of his last legs of his life. 315 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 1: If he's expiring in nineteen forty five, and so you 316 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: have FDR just doing the most he can trying to 317 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: do the best he can. Really four terms, you know, 318 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: but terms for any of us. Even at the peak 319 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:35,199 Speaker 1: of health. Right, he was not only a paraplegic confined 320 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: for life to his wheelchair, despite the newsreels of his 321 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: being seen on crutches. He had many many other ailments, melanoma, 322 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: terrible nasal congestion from which he suffered. He smoked heavily, 323 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: four packs a day during most of his presidency, and 324 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,360 Speaker 1: that was ganging up on him. So by the end, 325 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: when he was sixty three, which was then considered old, 326 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: he indeed was in failing health. But my key finding 327 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: from Unlikely Heroes is that perhaps no presidency in American 328 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: history is as surrounded by myth as is FDR's presidency. 329 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: Myth about how the New Deal was created and implemented, 330 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: myths about FDR's views on Black Americans and civil rights, 331 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: the myth that he had a friendship with Churchill, which 332 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: is utterly loopy. That friendship, if anything existed, went one 333 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: way between Churchill and FDR. FDR had no affection for 334 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: Britain and its empire, and FDR in many ways was 335 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: incapable of friendship. According to the woman who was closest 336 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: to him, his chief of staff to facto missy Land, 337 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: whereas Churchill was abelient and outgoing. So myths upon myths 338 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:13,040 Speaker 1: cloud this presidency. Why because historians are always focused on FDR. 339 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: The Titanic Leader himself, and they rarely have nudged the 340 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: spotlight away from him to better understand the four closest 341 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: associates at the top. And when we look at them, 342 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: those four associates, we get a better understanding of FDR. 343 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: The man hand of his presidency. So do you feel that, 344 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 1: you know, I just wish that there was like a 345 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: simple solution to what I want to ask. It's just 346 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: that how can we just avoid what we're seeing? How 347 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: can we avoid it? How can we avoid what we 348 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: almost had happened last time? You know how we're going 349 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 1: down kind of the same past, the same struggles. There's 350 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: there's complete divisiveness right now in politics, with you know, 351 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: the right and left just coming to each other so hard. 352 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: There's what's this common unity that's going to get us together, 353 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: you know, to just say, hey, we have to realize 354 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: that we are all on the same boat together. We're 355 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: all an American people together. You know, how did FDR. 356 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: What was his magic spells? Well, he had, indeed, as 357 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: you say, the magic ability to empathize and communicate with 358 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: his fellow citizens. But he also understood what needs to 359 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: be understood today as well, this element of basic American fairness, 360 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: and that can't, in my opinion, be labeled liberal or conservative, 361 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: left or right as we were talking about earlier. However, 362 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: it's structured enabling Americans, all Americans, equal access to quality healthcare, education, 363 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: it polls show that leviside left or right. Many Americans 364 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: agree on these basic issues, on the importance of organized labor, 365 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:09,679 Speaker 1: for instance, to deal on a level playing field with corporations, 366 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: or childcare access such as that. These are basic issues 367 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: of fairness as FDR would have defined them. And rugged individualism, 368 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: which the Republicans extolled in that era. It's a phrase 369 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: from the late nineteen twenties, rugged individualism. Yes, it sounds good, 370 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: and America is based on individualism in contrast to so 371 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: many other nations, but one has to recognize that the 372 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: highest order of individualism can be giving everybody a shot, 373 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: not just the better education you get, the fancy or 374 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,719 Speaker 1: zip code you live in. So it's a basic element 375 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: of fairness. And I'm constantly struck today I live in Washington. 376 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: This does not have to be an issue of left 377 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: or right, Democratic or Republicans, right. I mean, you're right there, 378 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,879 Speaker 1: You're write about it. You know, you have a whole 379 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: book that's out It's called Unlikely Heroes, and it touches 380 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: based on the FDR. I'm going to say, chronicle stories, historical. 381 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: You bring it to light for us to enjoy and understand. Now, 382 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 1: aside from that, what was FDR doing with the military 383 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: in regards to like special operations guys? You know, because 384 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: you know that has to be something that was on 385 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 1: his plate. Do you have any insight into what he 386 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: was doing? Utterly? And it's one of the great myths, 387 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: for example, that America was entirely vulnerable militarily during the 388 00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: nineteen thirties and that we were unprepared for war. To 389 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: be sure, the United States was a global it was 390 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: a superpower island nation, if we can think of it. 391 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: We still depended on the Atlantic and the Pacific as 392 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: our moats. We were a superpower by any definition economically. 393 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: Yet Britain's Royal Navy was easily the most powerful navy 394 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: in the world. The Germans quickly during the nineteen thirties 395 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: built up the most formidable of land forces in the world. 396 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: But it's always overlooked that there was nearly a stealth 397 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: military build up in the United States during the thirties 398 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: depths of the Depression. It mostly concentrated on building up 399 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: the Navy in the later thirties from nineteen to thirty seven, 400 00:29:54,440 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: on laying out the first aircraft carriers to strayers battleships. 401 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: Remember that Fdr himself had been Assistant Secretary of the 402 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: Navy during World War One, and he had a passion 403 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: for the Navy, and building up the Navy was easy 404 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: for him to explain. It was all defensive, We're defending 405 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: our ocean moats. But indeed, the Work Progress Administration, the WPA, 406 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: also had a role in building up the army, in 407 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: creating barracks, landing fields, in training young men through the 408 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: Civilian Conservation Corps, not as soldiers, but giving them a 409 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: military like discipline, and enabling colonels such as George C. Marshall, 410 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: who would become the Chief of Staff during World War Two, 411 00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: to lead civilians. All of this was happening under the 412 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: radar during the Great depression because the national focus was 413 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: on pulling up out of the economic agony. But at 414 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: the same time, FDR was extremely attuned to world affairs. 415 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: It's forgotten that he spoke French fluently, his German was competent, 416 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: and he read Spanish easily. Henry Wallace, vice President, spoke 417 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: Spanish fluently, German competently, and he taught himself Russian very quickly. 418 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: Francis Perkins, Secretary of Labor, her French was perfect. These 419 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: were people attuned to the world. They were they were 420 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: they were taking on extra duties to communicate respectfully with 421 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: their counterparts. So it was a one on one conversation, 422 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,959 Speaker 1: you know that way you don't think, oh, they're talking 423 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: bad about me because you don't understand them and they're 424 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,480 Speaker 1: just saying hello. But they may have a different way 425 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: of saying it in their language, or they're like learning 426 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: Mandarin or learning Russian or learning French. Learning just these 427 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: basic communication skills is really what I would imagine world 428 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: leaders should be able to do. You see other world 429 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: leaders like President Makrone of France speaks English. Yeah, do 430 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: we speak French? Right? Just straight up, I'm just saying that, 431 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: you know, not the personal to anybody that's the leadership 432 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,479 Speaker 1: of our country. But do you speak French? You know, 433 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: if you do totally cool? Do you speak Spanish? Maybe 434 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: that's a quality I should want to see in the 435 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: next candidate out there. It's like, hey, I also speak 436 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: to these other people. I can have a world dialogue. Well, 437 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: in foreign affairs, Americans have every right to be aggrieved. 438 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:55,959 Speaker 1: We've had a series of failed wars in a row, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. 439 00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: These are failures by any definition, failures because we didn't 440 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: remotely accomplish what was pledged at this March. And Americans 441 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: have every right to be skeptical about foreign affairs. And 442 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: those in Washington who were making these decisions about foreign affairs, 443 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: many of them being naive, many of them being political appointees. 444 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: And to that end, we've got lots of reason to 445 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: be disappointed in our accomplishments in foreign policy, certainly over 446 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: the last generation. Yeah, I mean, you know, if you 447 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: want to just really I know you're talking FDR. But 448 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: in Iraq, we had sent over someone to take over 449 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: the country that didn't even speak the language, or didn't 450 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: even have any business in the Middle East. But yeah, 451 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: he went over there and just said, everybody's fired the 452 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: bath parties. Now this organization under our laws and we're 453 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: going to go after them. And yes, not to divert 454 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: our subject, I'm happy to talk about this. This was 455 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:08,760 Speaker 1: Jerry Bremer. He was an employee of Kissinger and associates. 456 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: He had no experience in the Middle East, let alone language, 457 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:20,919 Speaker 1: but he was patronized by mister Kissinger, who injected him 458 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: into the George W. Bush administration, which had the hopelessly 459 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:33,440 Speaker 1: naive vision of trying to transform the Middle East, democratize 460 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: the Middle East, as if that is something America could 461 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: accomplish with a heavy hand. And not just Bremer, he 462 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: was a mere tool, but so many others military and 463 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:55,320 Speaker 1: civilians showed themselves desperately naive about the Middle East, about Afghanistan. 464 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: And it's eerie the extent to which the disasters in Iraq, 465 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan we only replicate those of Vietnam, you know, 466 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: a generation previous to that, right, And so here's my dad, 467 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: former Vietnam watching this generation go into another Vietnam. That's 468 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: kind of how good job, you know. And I'm not 469 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 1: saying that those that went and fought in Iraq next 470 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: to their battle buddies. You know it's not you, it's you. 471 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: Did you think it's the people that are putting us 472 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: in these places for something that for these reasons out 473 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 1: there that maybe you shouldn't a big difference between when 474 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,239 Speaker 1: we went to war in World War two and afterward one. 475 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: This was no war of choice. We were fighting for 476 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: our survival against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Japan attacked us, 477 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: of course at Pearl Harbor, and Germany declared war on 478 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: us three days later. There was no naivete that this 479 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: was going to be easy. You can see in the 480 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: run ups to Vietnam, to the Iraq War, and to 481 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 1: nation building in Afghanistan the time and time again we 482 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: told ourselves this is going to be easy. Vietnam. We 483 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: were going to clean the clock of the Vietnam quote 484 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: quote from prominent generals. Victory was always right around the corner, 485 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 1: we would hear from generals in Iraq and in Afghanistan. 486 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: Americans had no such illusion nineteen forty, forty one and 487 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,280 Speaker 1: forty two, when we finally went to war, we knew 488 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: that fighting the Thermacht, fighting Imperial in Japan was fighting 489 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 1: the best military forces in the world. So you had 490 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: no illusion that, oh, will be home by Christmas. This 491 00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 1: will be easy, they will welcome us with arms. Yeah, 492 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: this has to be done. This is a you know 493 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 1: till it's done, and the you know till the last 494 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: of our you know, Save with Private Ryan, right, I 495 00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,720 Speaker 1: mean it was so serious that four of her boys 496 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 1: were in the war in the movie and they had 497 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,320 Speaker 1: to go and try to save the one dude because 498 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,479 Speaker 1: they couldn't let all four of her boys just die. 499 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,439 Speaker 1: So there's a spoiler for you if you haven't seen 500 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 1: Save with Private Ryan. But listen, it's like, you know, 501 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 1: at the time, it was like here is my sons 502 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: and daughters. And then on the home front, the women 503 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: that weren't deployed were doing whatever they could hear for 504 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: the war effort. It was a huge That's where we 505 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: see FDRs four Lieutenants making themselves central to World War 506 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: two victory. Francis Perkins mobilizing the female workforce on the 507 00:37:53,840 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: home front, creating daycare centers, hospitals, yea, the wives and 508 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: children of the men who were often battle World War 509 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: two was also a war of logistics and a war 510 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,360 Speaker 1: of oil. The side which was able to deliver the 511 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,839 Speaker 1: most oil at the right time was going to win. 512 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: About seven billion barrels of oil were consumed during that war. 513 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 1: Six billion of those barrels came from the United States. 514 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: And Harold Ikey's was the energies Are and he was 515 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:36,320 Speaker 1: able to arrange tankers pipe lines that would deliver oil 516 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: to our forces and the forces of our allies, including 517 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 1: the right army, at the right time, in the right 518 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,720 Speaker 1: place to achieve victory. Yeah. And so you have someone 519 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: who is all about agriculture with Wallace, okay, and so 520 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 1: he's trying to stop all of the bankruptcies and probably 521 00:38:54,640 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 1: working with the Midwesterns. You've got Francis who's moralizing the 522 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,760 Speaker 1: women and the movement, and they're making ammunition and rivets 523 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: on the planes and the whole nine yards. Okay, Rosie 524 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,680 Speaker 1: the riveter. That's the whole era. And then what was 525 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: what was his game again? What was he all about? 526 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: Was a phenomenally powerful Secretary of the Interior. But he 527 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: was also what we would today call energies are. He 528 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: had ultimate authority over all forms of energy, coal, oil, gas, 529 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:32,200 Speaker 1: every four hydro, every form of energy he was responding. 530 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: He was in charge of that. And so he was 531 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,319 Speaker 1: making sure it was getting to the proper places where 532 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 1: it needed to go. And then who's that fourth one 533 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 1: that I'm not bringing up real quick here. Garry Hopkins, Yes, 534 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: who became an intimate advisor to FDR by the late 535 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,959 Speaker 1: thirties and then during the war made himself indispensable as 536 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: a political military go between between the White House and 537 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:04,960 Speaker 1: our allies oversea and administrating len Lease, for instance. But 538 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: Harry Hopkins was inexplicably naive about Stalinism, and to that end, 539 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: an abundance of len Lease materiel went to Stalin far 540 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: far beyond what was required by the Red Army, and 541 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: I argue in my final chapters that it was by 542 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,320 Speaker 1: no means inevitable that the Red Army had to conquer 543 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: all of Eastern Europe. All historians say, well, there was 544 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:40,879 Speaker 1: no alternative. By the Alta Conference in February nineteen forty five, 545 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,520 Speaker 1: it was a faye of complete The Red Army was 546 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 1: there and there was nothing we could do about it. 547 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,360 Speaker 1: That's perfectly correct. By then it was too late, But 548 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: by late nineteen forty three, certainly during nineteen forty four, 549 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: we should have quietly pulled back on the len Lease. 550 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:05,240 Speaker 1: That was flowing to the Soviet Union and put conditions 551 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: on it and use his own language to speak back 552 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,879 Speaker 1: to the balance. How do we solve the world's problems. 553 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 1: I'm just sitting here thinking, you know, like t So 554 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,440 Speaker 1: it's good to have these four horsemen lieutenants in his 555 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: sphere that are able to focus on all those things. 556 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,879 Speaker 1: I'm happy because here we are today, all right, So 557 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 1: it was it was good moves. There's good chess moves 558 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 1: right there, because we're here today talking in English not 559 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: another language. Yes, there were many, many close calls during 560 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: the thirties and nineteen forties, and then after Roosevelt died 561 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: in April nineteen forty five, these four lieutenants stayed on 562 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,800 Speaker 1: for a while under Truman, but of course Truman wanted 563 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 1: his own people in those roles, and after thirteen years 564 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:08,480 Speaker 1: in government, they were eager to get out. Later, by 565 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: later nineteen forty six, they were all out of government. 566 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:18,800 Speaker 1: But by then, they, along with FDR, had really really 567 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: redefined American life and very much shaped the America that 568 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: we know today. I just want to clap because that's 569 00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: a good thing. Okay, I mean, I do like a 570 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:35,080 Speaker 1: healthcare mantra. I'm not against that as as an American citizen, 571 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,919 Speaker 1: as my own feelings, you know, I feel that that's 572 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:39,759 Speaker 1: a good thing that I think we should all try 573 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,400 Speaker 1: to achieve. Because my debate about healthcare is we're going 574 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,040 Speaker 1: to get it anyways, you know, so why not just 575 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 1: get it sooner and so if we're gonna be guaranteed 576 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,800 Speaker 1: it anyway. So you can't be mad about a universal 577 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: healthcare plan when there's already a universal healthcare plan. It's 578 00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: just that you can't get through sixty Healthcare made exhibit 579 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:07,920 Speaker 1: a not only a failing system, but also of economic inequality. 580 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:14,880 Speaker 1: The largest hospital system, nonprofit hospital system in the United 581 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:20,440 Speaker 1: States is Ascension Health. I served for nine years on 582 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 1: the board of trustees of one of the Ascension Health hospitals. 583 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 1: It's enormous. They own hospitals, healthcare centers all over the 584 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 1: United States and they are a nonprofit. Yeah, the CEO 585 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,279 Speaker 1: pays himself a base salary of thirteen million a year. 586 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 1: Thirteen million a year while going out of the way 587 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 1: of Ascension leadership say to break nursing unions and to 588 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: collect bills very aggressively from hospital patients unable to pay. 589 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 1: But a thirteen million annual salary for a hospital system ceo, 590 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 1: let alone a nonprofit hospital system is unconscionable. And FDR 591 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:16,680 Speaker 1: would have called out individuals by name for such piggishness. 592 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:23,440 Speaker 1: Indeed he did. He called out by name the CEOs 593 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,920 Speaker 1: of the steel industry who had the temerity to make 594 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 1: more than one hundred times, just a mere hundred times 595 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 1: what their workers were making. But here we put up 596 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:40,400 Speaker 1: with compensation not only thirteen million for a nonprofit hospital 597 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:44,799 Speaker 1: system administrator, but also inequities. And the tax structure is 598 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:50,880 Speaker 1: your followers know very well firsthand. And the fight attack 599 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:58,319 Speaker 1: social security is with us thankfully since nineteen thirty six 600 00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 1: thirty seven. Right, But as Bernie Sanders would say, the 601 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,920 Speaker 1: millionaires and the billionaires pay far, far, far far or 602 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:14,080 Speaker 1: less of their income. So that Bernie, he would say that, yeah, yeah, 603 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,319 Speaker 1: that's left or a right issue. That I see it 604 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,799 Speaker 1: as completely irrelevant whether it's liberal, correct, surmative. It's a 605 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:26,080 Speaker 1: fairness issue, that's right. It is. It's like it shouldn't 606 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: matter if you live on this side of the tracks 607 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,200 Speaker 1: or this side of the tracks, because let's say the 608 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,920 Speaker 1: hospital should take care of both sides. Just like that's it. 609 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,280 Speaker 1: Everybody should have access to that. You should have women 610 00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,440 Speaker 1: with access to pre metal healthcare in all communities. You 611 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 1: should have you know, access to MRIs and getting things 612 00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:49,279 Speaker 1: looked at. And I recall a doctor was from like 613 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,560 Speaker 1: Canada and an American congressman was given him a hard time, 614 00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,680 Speaker 1: given her a hard time about, oh, well, if we 615 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: go to universal healthcare, you know, you're not gonna make 616 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: any money. And she's like, well, I already work in 617 00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:05,839 Speaker 1: universal healthcare and I make good money. That's what she said. 618 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,319 Speaker 1: You know, straight up, she works in Canada and she's 619 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,400 Speaker 1: a doctor, and she's like, I might lose maybe ten 620 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:16,279 Speaker 1: percent of my salary. You might lose ten percent. A 621 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,360 Speaker 1: doctor might lose just ten percent of their overall salary 622 00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,880 Speaker 1: on a universal healthcare system program. Then not right. So 623 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,960 Speaker 1: if they're just for profit, they're gonna make that extra 624 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: ten percent. But if it's if it's a matter of 625 00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, the Heppocratic oath, okay, and if it's a 626 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,759 Speaker 1: matter of you know, do no harm and things like that, 627 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,000 Speaker 1: then what's ten percent? Doc? You know what I mean? Right, 628 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:46,919 Speaker 1: But it's not physicians compensation that is burdened today, Okay. 629 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 1: The difference between healthcare of the thirties and forties, and 630 00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:56,879 Speaker 1: today is this enormous administrative apparatus that has grown up 631 00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:02,040 Speaker 1: where you pay the administrators not just a thirteen million 632 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:08,000 Speaker 1: dollars salary ascension. But here in Washington, MedStar is the 633 00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:14,320 Speaker 1: local hospital provider, a nonprofit of course, and the CEO 634 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:18,279 Speaker 1: pays himself seven point five million a year. And if 635 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,479 Speaker 1: a CEO pays himself seven point five million, that means 636 00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:26,920 Speaker 1: the EVP gets, say, five million, and the associate BP 637 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,680 Speaker 1: gets three million, etc. And these bloated salaries at the 638 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:36,839 Speaker 1: same time that all too many Americans, certainly in Washington, DC, 639 00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:42,480 Speaker 1: the nation's capital, are struggling terribly to pay fees for healthcare. 640 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:48,319 Speaker 1: So these are very similar issues to what we're encountered 641 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:54,360 Speaker 1: in the thirties and forties. And would struck me writing 642 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:59,840 Speaker 1: this story is that FDR has closest associates and indeed 643 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,880 Speaker 1: any Republicans, because to be elected four times for FDR, 644 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,560 Speaker 1: you needed Republicans to elect you as well. They define 645 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,960 Speaker 1: it in terms of fairness, and that's the way we 646 00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:16,160 Speaker 1: must think of domestic policy today. That's a good point. Fairness, yes, 647 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,719 Speaker 1: like for the people, really for the people, right, like 648 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,040 Speaker 1: look at the people not just at your you know, 649 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:26,120 Speaker 1: these congressmen and these senators that go to their offices 650 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,759 Speaker 1: every day and look in their mirror and say, I 651 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 1: represent the people. Know you really do? You really do 652 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,399 Speaker 1: the people? It's not you, it's the people. And you're 653 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 1: a part of that collective group. And your constituents are 654 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,680 Speaker 1: both sides of the field. You have left and right constituents. Okay, 655 00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:43,520 Speaker 1: they may not have voted for you, but they're still 656 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:46,920 Speaker 1: your constituents, and you still have an obligation in the 657 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,120 Speaker 1: community to hear them out, you know, for their wants 658 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,200 Speaker 1: and needs as well. It's not just a you know, 659 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:57,880 Speaker 1: I'm not running for politics. I don't want that, but 660 00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,480 Speaker 1: it feels like it needs a nice vibe. Been there. 661 00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:08,879 Speaker 1: I'm just leg you. Oh jeez. So, Derek, another thing 662 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,040 Speaker 1: that you kind of alluded to me over according you 663 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,600 Speaker 1: onto the show, was there's a museum that you're involved with. Yeah, 664 00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,960 Speaker 1: I'll tell me about that. Yes, indeed, it's the newly 665 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:26,279 Speaker 1: opened National Museum of the United States Army here in Washington, 666 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:31,840 Speaker 1: d C. Actually right outside the Capitol itself, near Mount Vernon. 667 00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,080 Speaker 1: There had been a Marine Corps museum. As we all know, 668 00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:40,560 Speaker 1: there's been a National Naval Museum, actually right here near 669 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,000 Speaker 1: the mall in Washington, d C. There'd never been an 670 00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:48,680 Speaker 1: army museum. There's been lots of small museums scattered around 671 00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:56,920 Speaker 1: the country for Benning at Carlisle Barracks, etc. And indeed, 672 00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:03,960 Speaker 1: the presidential offic rization to create a museum for the 673 00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:08,360 Speaker 1: army went back to the War of eighteen twelve, but 674 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:13,640 Speaker 1: it had never been acted upon, no national museum. And 675 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:20,960 Speaker 1: after nine to eleven in the early two thousands, there 676 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:27,680 Speaker 1: became a citizen enthusiasm for creating such a national museum 677 00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:34,720 Speaker 1: of the US Army. Congress weighed in gave significant sums. 678 00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:39,759 Speaker 1: Many of us started raising money from small donors, and 679 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:45,880 Speaker 1: the upshot was to build the premiere military history museum 680 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:50,200 Speaker 1: in the world, which is right here outside of Washington. 681 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,640 Speaker 1: And I would add that the way we think of 682 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,479 Speaker 1: a museum in the twenty twenties is not the way 683 00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:58,799 Speaker 1: that you and I when we were kids would go 684 00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:02,799 Speaker 1: to a museum and look at exhibits through glass cases. 685 00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:09,360 Speaker 1: A museum now is a truly interactive learning experience, indeed 686 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,759 Speaker 1: gamified in many ways. So to be sure you can 687 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,320 Speaker 1: see the muskets and the machine guns and the swords 688 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:21,680 Speaker 1: and the tanks, but there's also at the National Museum 689 00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:25,880 Speaker 1: of the US Army a phenomenal way you can interact 690 00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:30,960 Speaker 1: and engage with the stories. And indeed we have of 691 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,560 Speaker 1: one hundred acres on which tank maneuvers can be conducted 692 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,800 Speaker 1: in re enactments of cavalry charges. So a museum today 693 00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:46,000 Speaker 1: is an educational institution with much outreach. Are you saying 694 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,000 Speaker 1: that at some time on the calendar there's going to 695 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:53,399 Speaker 1: be tank demonstrations on the property. That's the plan. That's 696 00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:56,800 Speaker 1: the plan. It opened. The museum opened in twenty twenty 697 00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,080 Speaker 1: mid COVID that autumn, so it has been getting into 698 00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:05,480 Speaker 1: gear really just the past year. But your followers can 699 00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:10,960 Speaker 1: find it on NU New n Musa and m USA 700 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:16,920 Speaker 1: dot org and you can see what our National Museum 701 00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,120 Speaker 1: of the US Army is like. And that's like new 702 00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:25,440 Speaker 1: Musa and U m USA dot org. Right, okay, perfect, 703 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:28,200 Speaker 1: We'll have that put into the website at the bottom, 704 00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:29,719 Speaker 1: so if anybody wants to click on it, they can 705 00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,400 Speaker 1: just you know, go down to the bottom of that 706 00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,279 Speaker 1: on software dot com and just click on the museum. 707 00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:38,880 Speaker 1: It's it's a marvelous, fulfilling experience to see the visitors 708 00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,800 Speaker 1: because so many of the families that would visit the 709 00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:45,680 Speaker 1: amount Vernon for example, my life side of town when 710 00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:49,239 Speaker 1: they're in DC, will then come to the museum and 711 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,319 Speaker 1: it's not just all you know veterans, but you see 712 00:52:53,480 --> 00:53:00,160 Speaker 1: entire families, children. It's a marvelously educational, uplifting experience. It's 713 00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,240 Speaker 1: definitely a place that you should put on your list 714 00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,160 Speaker 1: of visiting and paying respects and checking out. When you 715 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,680 Speaker 1: go to visit Washington, DC to do those sight seeing tours, 716 00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,719 Speaker 1: you should definitely check out the Army Museum. I know 717 00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:13,680 Speaker 1: I want to, and if I make it to Washington, DC, 718 00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:15,879 Speaker 1: I'm going to look you up and come and see 719 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,960 Speaker 1: that museum to get sure. Oh I would love it. 720 00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,320 Speaker 1: I bet you got some Special Forces like segment things, 721 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,600 Speaker 1: and tell me you got to display about a cook. 722 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,200 Speaker 1: Tell me there's somebody that's like a mannequin with a 723 00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,759 Speaker 1: cook and the whole grills all laid out, because how 724 00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,160 Speaker 1: an important job is the cook. We all know about 725 00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,920 Speaker 1: the airborne paratrooper. We all know about that, but what 726 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:41,799 Speaker 1: about the airborne paratrooper cook. Don't recall seeing a special 727 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:46,600 Speaker 1: culinary exhibit the Special Forces and Airborne? Is you know, 728 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:51,760 Speaker 1: they have their own specialized museum in Fayetteville, North Carolina. 729 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,719 Speaker 1: But what we have done with the National Museum of 730 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,600 Speaker 1: the US Armies bring all of this together to show 731 00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,960 Speaker 1: the Army presence in America history from the very beginning, 732 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:07,399 Speaker 1: including the Lewis and Cark Expedition, all of those fount Wow, 733 00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:12,720 Speaker 1: the Buffalo Soldiers. We don't find I think from the inequities, 734 00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,520 Speaker 1: you know, the slaughter of Native Americans or segregation and 735 00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,440 Speaker 1: the armed forces. That is all put out there as 736 00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,440 Speaker 1: part of the education, as it should be. You know, 737 00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:26,520 Speaker 1: we can't not remember where and what we've done to 738 00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,560 Speaker 1: be where we are. So I'm okay with you know, history, 739 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:32,480 Speaker 1: it's a good thing. It's a fun thing. Right. It 740 00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:35,440 Speaker 1: just opened your mind. You're like, oh, wait, you mean 741 00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:39,719 Speaker 1: I mean Utah? Right, Wait, this was Mexico. Hold on, 742 00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,799 Speaker 1: this was Mexico for two years where we lived when 743 00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:47,440 Speaker 1: the Mormons moved here, and then it became Utah. Seeing 744 00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:54,439 Speaker 1: you learn, Okay, you just learned things. Well, listen, I've 745 00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,560 Speaker 1: taken up a lot of your time and we've been 746 00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,120 Speaker 1: talking and it's been a wonderful experience. And you're such 747 00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:03,120 Speaker 1: an eloquently spoken guest. I really appreciate having you on 748 00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,120 Speaker 1: and all of the hoops you jump through to get 749 00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,560 Speaker 1: onto the show. And Unlikely Heroes is a book that 750 00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,320 Speaker 1: is out right now that you can buy any store 751 00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:15,920 Speaker 1: or specialty shop. Try to buy local momopop bookstores if 752 00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:17,719 Speaker 1: you can, or if they don't have to ask them 753 00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:19,960 Speaker 1: to order it and then they can order it for 754 00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,160 Speaker 1: you and buy it from them if you have to 755 00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:25,040 Speaker 1: buy other way, totally get it. But also the other 756 00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,879 Speaker 1: book is To Dare and to Conquer, which is special Operations. 757 00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,120 Speaker 1: You know, Derek is the author of many things that 758 00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,640 Speaker 1: book as well, and you should check that out. And 759 00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,839 Speaker 1: at the bottom of you know, the soft reap article here, 760 00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:39,560 Speaker 1: it'll just have some of these links that you can 761 00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,680 Speaker 1: just go check out whatever Derek's got going on. And Derek, 762 00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:44,719 Speaker 1: you've been a wonderful guest. Do you have anything that 763 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,879 Speaker 1: you would like to say? Last closing words here? Yeah, 764 00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:52,280 Speaker 1: it's just an honor to speak to your many followers, listeners, observers, 765 00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:56,239 Speaker 1: and I would leave us all with what we can 766 00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:01,000 Speaker 1: all agree on this Quest for Fairness in completing the 767 00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:05,080 Speaker 1: American Experiment. Okay, well, thanks for being on the show. 768 00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,759 Speaker 1: Quest for Fairness. I'm gonna leave it at that. This 769 00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:19,120 Speaker 1: is rad saying peace. You've been listening to self red 770 00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:19,600 Speaker 1: Radia