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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump is mad at the

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Speaker 1: reports that he did not win in a landslide after

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Speaker 1: winning less than fifty percent of the popular vote. We

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Speaker 1: have a show of shows for you today. To the contrary,

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Speaker 1: author Charlie Sikes talks to us about staying sane in

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Speaker 1: in Saturday. Then we'll talk to Democracy Forward Sky Perriman

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Speaker 1: about fighting back against Trump's agenda using the courts.

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Speaker 2: But first the news.

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Speaker 3: So, Molly, one of the things we've been talking about

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Speaker 3: that I think is most important about Trump's incoming regime

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Speaker 3: is this mass deportation plan.

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Speaker 4: What are you seeing here?

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Speaker 1: I've been saying that we all need to keep our

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Speaker 1: powder dry for when Donald Trump starts rounding people up.

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Speaker 1: But our powder, I mean our outrage, you know, we

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Speaker 1: have to save it for things that are really outrageous,

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Speaker 1: like mass deportation. But before even Donald Trump has taken office,

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Speaker 1: it has become clear that this mass deportation plan is

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Speaker 1: going to be very expensive, not just the price of

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Speaker 1: separating people from their families and flying them to countries

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Speaker 1: that won't necessarily take them, but it will have enormous

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Speaker 1: effects on agriculture. So there's reporting that agricultural output will

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Speaker 1: fall between thirty and sixty billion dollars if Trump's flagshift

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Speaker 1: policy is carried out.

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Speaker 2: That's quite a lot.

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Speaker 1: And remember, farmers are already suffering because climate change has

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Speaker 1: made it harder to predict what crops are going to

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Speaker 1: look like, what this sort of farming landscape, if you'll

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Speaker 1: excuse the use of the word landscape, will look like.

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Speaker 1: And so now deportation of all of the farm we'll

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Speaker 1: add another wrinkle to an already very unpredictable business. And

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Speaker 1: you'll remember Donald Trump ran on making things more affordable.

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Speaker 1: Getting rid of the people who farm the farms will

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Speaker 1: mean that everything will be more expensive. Farmers will have

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Speaker 1: to pay more for labor, wildly inflationary, and restaurant owners

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Speaker 1: are already and agricultural leaders are already calling foul on

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's plans, and he isn't even in office yet.

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Speaker 4: Even Walmart is I mean, it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: No, this is the whole thing is completely insane.

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Speaker 4: It's okay, we'll all be eating the dogs and the

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Speaker 4: cats soon.

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Speaker 2: That's right, they're eating them.

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Speaker 4: So speaking of other things, that seems like mister Trump

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Speaker 4: wasn't telling the whole truth about on the campaign trail.

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Speaker 4: So begetting to look a lot like something you and

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Speaker 4: I said as coming true, which is that this whole

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Speaker 4: thing is gonna be staffed by Project twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll be shocked to know that everything Donald Trump said,

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Speaker 1: maybe not everything, but certainly this when he said he

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Speaker 1: knew nothing about Project twenty twenty five and that Project

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five is not him. Well it turns out,

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Speaker 1: you guys, I know you're gonna be shocked, but Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump was saying a lie. In fact, Project twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: five is basically Trump's transition And in fact, now we

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Speaker 1: see what the campaign over. Trump's transition team is turning

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Speaker 1: to Project twenty twenty five, even though they said they.

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Speaker 2: Weren't going to.

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Speaker 1: They're taking suggestions from for potential hires from their website,

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Speaker 1: which was called Project twenty twenty five, a website.

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Speaker 2: To staff the next Trump administration.

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Speaker 1: How ironic that they actually are using the thing they

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Speaker 1: said they would. It's a database, you know, it's been

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Speaker 1: set up for a couple of years, so it has

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Speaker 1: people have applied through it. Project's twenty twenty five massive

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Speaker 1: book of conservative I was going to say conspiratorial, but

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Speaker 1: it's sort of the same policy recommendations. It received the

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Speaker 1: most attention from Democrats. It was a wishless and by

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Speaker 1: the way, when people started googling it, they realized that

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Speaker 1: all of the things were pretty dystopian. Now we get

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Speaker 1: to see Trump try to enact them, we'll see what happens.

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Speaker 1: But again, it's really important to realize that in fact,

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Speaker 1: this is all Donald Trump's plan. And Russ Vatt is

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Speaker 1: likely going to return to the OMB director and he

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Speaker 1: was acting director, and he was deputy director before. He

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Speaker 1: comes directly from Heritage Action, which is a branch of

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Speaker 1: the Heritage Foundation. He wrote a chapter of Project twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. His chapter covers the Executive Office of the Presidency.

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Speaker 2: And you'll remember that the whole idea with.

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Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five is to expand the powers of

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Speaker 1: the presidency to ncap the federal government and to make

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Speaker 1: almost all aspects of the federal government arms of Trump's campaign.

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Speaker 1: So you know, the DOJ will be his personal criminal

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Speaker 1: prosecution arm. Every part of the federal government will be

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Speaker 1: in the service of Donald Trump, and you'll be shocked

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Speaker 1: to know that Russ Vott is in fact one of

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Speaker 1: those parts.

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Speaker 5: So this is interesting. Oftentimes I think people would get

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Speaker 5: really excited around election, sees that we can get rid

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Speaker 5: of the Marjorie Taylor Greens, of the Matt Gates is

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Speaker 5: at the ballot box, and that didn't happen. But it

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Speaker 5: turns out we are actually getting rid of Matt Gates

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Speaker 5: and Congress. What are you seeing here?

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Speaker 1: You'll remember that Matt Gates.

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Speaker 2: I can't stop laughing.

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Speaker 1: So last week Matt Gates resigned because the Congressional Ethics Committee.

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Speaker 2: Known to be highly toothless.

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Speaker 1: Okay, like the Congressional Ethics Committee has many times investigated

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Speaker 1: people and found no need for anything here, they were

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Speaker 1: about to release this report.

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Speaker 2: Clearly there was some stuff in there that really worried

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Speaker 2: Matt Gates.

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Speaker 1: So he was designed and Trump made him his pick

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Speaker 1: for Attorney general. Only in Trump world does such a

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Speaker 1: series of events happen. But Mark Gates spent the week

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Speaker 1: trying to avoid sort of the alleged story of him

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Speaker 1: having sex with an underage girl. He resigned right before

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Speaker 1: CNN ran another story about him allegedly having sex with

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Speaker 1: another girl who was underage. So again their witnesses, there's

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Speaker 1: just a ton you know, there's all of these VENMO payments.

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Speaker 1: I mean, where there's Venmo payments, there's usually fire.

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Speaker 4: Really twenty four thousand dollars to one girl, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so now there was a question because Gates

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Speaker 1: resigned before the next Congress, which he'd already won a seat,

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Speaker 1: and if he would stay in Congress in Florida's first

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Speaker 1: district or not. But yesterday, which was Thursday, because today

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Speaker 1: is Friday and tomorrow you will be listening to this

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Speaker 1: podcast on Saturday.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I know how the days of the week work at.

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Speaker 1: Gates told some news outlet, I'm going to be fighting

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Speaker 1: for President Trump. I'm going to be doing whatever he

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Speaker 1: asks of me as I always have. Oh, not even

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Speaker 1: a news outlet. He told that to Charlie Kirk. But

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Speaker 1: I think that eight years is probably enough time in

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Speaker 1: the United States Congress. I think the rest of Congress agrees.

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Speaker 1: Hours after Gates ended his big Trump announced longtime loyalist

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Speaker 1: and former Florida Attorney General Pam Bondy as his new

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Speaker 1: pick to head the Justice Department.

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Speaker 2: God help us all, Samali.

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Speaker 6: We have to discuss one last Trump phenomenee, wrestling magnate

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Speaker 6: Linda McMahon. Turns out she's had some pretty bad things

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Speaker 6: when it comes to being around children. What are you

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Speaker 6: seeing here?

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Speaker 1: So Linda McMahon helped co run Trump's transition team with

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Speaker 1: Howard Lutnik. Linda McMahon really wanted to be Commerce Secretary.

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Speaker 1: She's a big dop donor. She lost out on Commerce

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Speaker 1: Secretary to Howard Lutnan, who really wanted to be Treasury Secretary,

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Speaker 1: but lost to add to someone that Wall Street thinks

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Speaker 1: is sane. We still don't know who that is because

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of inviting about that one job. You

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Speaker 1: can tell what jobs they think are important from how

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Speaker 1: long it takes them to put together a nominee anyway.

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Speaker 1: So McMahon now has been given the door prize in

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Speaker 1: the Trump cabinet. She is the Secretary of Education if

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Speaker 1: she gets through congressional approval. The hilarious part of this

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Speaker 1: is that Donald Trump is planning, or at least thinks

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Speaker 1: he can shutter the Department of Education. So here's the

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Speaker 1: job that Trump is hoping won't exist. She has not

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Speaker 1: without her scandals. She's the former CEO of the WWE,

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Speaker 1: which is a wrestling federation. She found herself in a

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Speaker 1: lawsuit against her, her husband, the WWE, and TKO Group Holding,

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Speaker 1: it's the league's parent company, knowingly allowed employee Marvin Phillips

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Speaker 1: Junior to use his position as ringside announcer and essentially

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Speaker 1: exploit children again, you mean like QAnon. Charlie Sykes is

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Speaker 1: the author of the newsletter to the Contrary and the

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Speaker 1: book How the Right Lost Its Mind Welcome Back Too

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Speaker 1: Fast Politics.

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Speaker 2: My friend, Charlie Sikes, I.

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Speaker 7: Actually wanted to talk to you, even what's your podcast.

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Speaker 7: I want to talk to you about your about your

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Speaker 7: strategy to remain sane, because I do think that this

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Speaker 7: needs everybody has to have this on their agenda. How

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Speaker 7: are you going to get through the next four years?

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Speaker 7: What's your plan right now? Other than not doing the

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Speaker 7: same thing we've done over the last eight years, we

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Speaker 7: got got to mix it up, right, Bunnie.

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Speaker 1: You should ask this because I actually wrote about this

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Speaker 1: this week, and I think it's a pretty smart plan,

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Speaker 1: if I do say so myself. My theory of the

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Speaker 1: case is this, there is no knock novelty here, right.

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Speaker 1: We know where this is going, and there are very

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Speaker 1: few guardrails. Right, we have Democrats control no levers of

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Speaker 1: the federal government, though the House is very very tight,

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Speaker 1: and the Supreme Court has gone it is no longer

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Speaker 1: the Roberts courts. It's the you know, it's basically it's

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Speaker 1: like the Alito Court. It's not quite the allital Court,

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Speaker 1: but it's the Kavanaugh Court for sure. So my theory

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Speaker 1: of the case is that this needs to be a

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Speaker 1: kind of triage. The focus needs to be norms and institutions,

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Speaker 1: things that really will be undoable, like things where Trump

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Speaker 1: really just structurally damaged the United States in ways that

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Speaker 1: cannot be undone, and that those norms and institutions have

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Speaker 1: to be job one, and that everything cannot be outrageous,

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Speaker 1: because then nothing is well.

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Speaker 7: I think this is the hard part is you know

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Speaker 7: that we're about to go into this fire hose of

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Speaker 7: outrage that you know, starting on January twenty I actually

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Speaker 7: already started. Now it's going to be like twenty seventeen

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Speaker 7: every single day, and it is gonna be hard not

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Speaker 7: to set yourself on fire, particularly for the folks who

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Speaker 7: have to have opinions every single day. This is one

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Speaker 7: of the things I was thinking about earlier this year

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Speaker 7: when I said I was stepping off the daily hamster

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Speaker 7: wheel of crazy, which is not to you turn your

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Speaker 7: back on it, but if you basically keep your face

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Speaker 7: right up against that fire hose, it's going to make

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Speaker 7: you insane because every single day you will try to,

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Speaker 7: you know, fill space. You'll have the hot takes, and

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Speaker 7: you have to react to whatever outrage, and some of

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Speaker 7: those outre I mean, look, they're all outrages, but some

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Speaker 7: of those outrages will matter, and some of them are ephemeral.

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Speaker 7: So I think it's kind of separating out the big

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Speaker 7: stuff from the little stuff and not being obsessed by it.

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Speaker 7: I don't want to digress too much, but I don't

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Speaker 7: want to be chasing every single moment when Nancy Mace

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Speaker 7: is demagoguing something or the latest stupid thing that Marjorie

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Speaker 7: Taylor Green is, because at the end of every week,

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Speaker 7: we'll think, how did I get so stupid? And it's

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Speaker 7: because I spent all my time I'm talking about Nancy

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Speaker 7: Mace or Marjorie Taylor Green. Well, meanwhile, they're carting out

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Speaker 7: all the furniture from the Department of Justice and they're

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Speaker 7: dismantling the EPA I'd say, Okay, maybe we ought to

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Speaker 7: focus on the big stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's exactly right. And look, Nancy Mace

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Speaker 1: wants you to be outraged, right. I mean this is

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Speaker 1: like democracy dies in darkness.

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Speaker 7: Right, democracy dies in bullshit right.

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Speaker 1: And Nancy Mays only exists if she can dictate the

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Speaker 1: news cycle. Right, like she has learned at the knee

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Speaker 1: of Marjorie Taylor.

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Speaker 7: Green, do not take the bait. Just don't take the bait.

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Speaker 7: That's at least one thing.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 7: How long we're going to be able to stick with that,

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Speaker 7: I just don't know. So I was I was on

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Speaker 7: a Canadian show this morning and the host says, so, Charlie,

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Speaker 7: are people afraid? Are you afraid? And I had a

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Speaker 7: very inadequate answer. I said, well, you know, the day

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Speaker 7: after the election, someone suggested that I write a you know,

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Speaker 7: on my substack newsletter to the contrary that I write

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Speaker 7: the headline be not afraid. And I said, hell with that,

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Speaker 7: because people should be afraid. People should be afraid, but

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Speaker 7: they should not be frightened. And I think this is

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Speaker 7: the key thing. People ought to be very aware of

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Speaker 7: the danger, but not be so frightened that they cave

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Speaker 7: in or obey in advance. If you act out of fear,

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Speaker 7: I think it's one thing to be again on alert,

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Speaker 7: to be aware, but to act out of fear is

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Speaker 7: the dark place. That's what authoritarians want. They want us

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Speaker 7: to cower. They want us to think, how can I

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Speaker 7: not be noticed? How can I not make them mad?

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Speaker 7: And of course there's a lot of that going on.

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Speaker 7: And again that's not for me to say there's nothing

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Speaker 7: to worry about. There's a lot to worry about them.

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Speaker 2: There is really a lot.

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Speaker 7: You worry about it, but you stand and you face

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Speaker 7: it intelligently and effectively not run away. That's the key thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's really really so important. And

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Speaker 1: that's what I think about a lot is like this

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Speaker 1: is the break glass in case of emergency, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: this is it. This is as dark as it's going

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Speaker 1: to get. And so we need to be very thoughtful

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Speaker 1: about how we proceed, right.

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Speaker 7: And you can't break the glass every single day. The

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Speaker 7: other thing that I'm I'm really trying to commit myself

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Speaker 7: to is try to not chase every squirrel of outrage,

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Speaker 7: you know, not every every single shiny object. But also,

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Speaker 7: and this is really hard, and I think I'm going

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Speaker 7: to be misunderstood here. I think we do have to

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Speaker 7: keep a sense of humor.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, agreed, A grade agrade, because I.

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Speaker 7: Listened to some of just the grim people, you know,

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Speaker 7: repeating the same talking points that they've been repeating and

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Speaker 7: using the same jargon and everything, and they're depressed and

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Speaker 7: they're all ere and everything, and as a fuck that.

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Speaker 7: I mean, honestly, these people are They're absurd and they're dangerous,

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Speaker 7: and I think that there's a balance there to say,

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Speaker 7: you people are absolutely ridiculous. I mean people like Peter

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Speaker 7: hegxitt yes, and An RFK and Matt Gaates. I mean

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Speaker 7: they're risibly absurd human beings. Now that's not to say

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Speaker 7: they're not also dangerous human beings.

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Speaker 1: Yes, many things can be true, which I think is

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Speaker 1: part of what we're experiencing here. These people can be dangerous,

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Speaker 1: and they can also be ridiculous and look, and they

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Speaker 1: can also more importantly be stopped. And that's what we

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Speaker 1: saw with Matt Gates this week, right, because Matt Gates

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Speaker 1: really did in the end, there were enough brave Republicans

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Speaker 1: and we had questions and worries and dowds about this

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Speaker 1: but there were enough brave Republicans, so Matt Gates will

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Speaker 1: not be Attorney General.

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Speaker 7: I would say there were enough nauseator Republicans.

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Speaker 2: Right, we'll take it.

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Speaker 7: No, okay, I want to take this in a positive

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Speaker 7: point of view. I did write this morning that, you know,

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Speaker 7: the fall of Matt Gates, which was is a splendid

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Speaker 7: thing to watch, maybe more of a speed bump than

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Speaker 7: a guardrail. We don't know how many brave Republicans there

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Speaker 7: will be, but it is worth pointing out that Donald

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Speaker 7: Trump went all out to get Matt Gates, including this

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Speaker 7: report that they were going around telling senators, you know,

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Speaker 7: if you don't bow the knee to Donald Trump and

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Speaker 7: Matt Gates, we're going to primary you, and this guy

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Speaker 7: Elon Musk is going to bankroll it. So you had

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Speaker 7: basically this thuggish out in the open threat, and the

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Speaker 7: Republicans didn't caved. And it also didn't work because there

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Speaker 7: was a retreat they could have taken. They could have

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Speaker 7: you done that craven recess appointment, They could have surrendered

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Speaker 7: their power.

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Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell, hero of the resistance, told them they couldn't.

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Speaker 7: No fucking way. Mitch McConnell said not this time. Maybe,

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Speaker 7: unlike Susan Collins, he has learned his lesson. I don't know.

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Speaker 7: I don't want to be the lucy in the football

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Speaker 7: again with these guys. But you do get the sense

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Speaker 7: that maybe Donald Trump has seriously overplayed his hand by

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Speaker 7: going to war with the Republican Senate as right out

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Speaker 7: of the box. He insulted them, he threatened them, he

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Speaker 7: tried to humiliate them, and he's still trying to humiliate

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Speaker 7: them by shoving these nominees down their throat. And at

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Speaker 7: least as you and I are speaking, they said, no,

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Speaker 7: we're not going to do it, which again ought to

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Speaker 7: be you know, let plant let's plant this, you know,

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Speaker 7: rare flag of success.

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Speaker 2: Enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I also do think like remember as soon

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Speaker 1: as Trump won, Trump and Elon were like, we are

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Speaker 1: going to install Rick Scott, the president for Mars Attacks

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Speaker 1: as the majority leader.

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Speaker 2: And that did not work either.

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Speaker 7: No, Actually that that was really interesting. That was his

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Speaker 7: first big failure, right that he was He clearly didn't

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Speaker 7: want John Thune, you had, the Maga verse was all

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Speaker 7: on fire about that, and they lost badly. In fact,

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Speaker 7: that was the day you might remember, that was the

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Speaker 7: day that he began, you know, rolling out some of

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Speaker 7: the absurd original appointments. And it felt to me, having

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Speaker 7: watched Trump this long, that that was a way of

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Speaker 7: distracting attention from what otherwise would have been something that

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Speaker 7: Trump hates more than anything else. People pointing out that

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Speaker 7: you just lost, you just lost big on something that

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Speaker 7: that is going to have long term ramifications. But I

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Speaker 7: know that some people are really really surprised. I'm only

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Speaker 7: mildly surprised that the you know, rape mcfoorhead was a

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Speaker 7: bridge too far, or for this that it was such

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Speaker 7: a ridiculous I stole that from somebody. No, I think

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Speaker 7: I stole it from the guy who drops all the

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Speaker 7: F bombs even more than me. We'll see what they

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Speaker 7: do with Peter Hegsith.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, now that Matt Gates is out of the lineup

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Speaker 1: and Pam BONDI we actually know, is a lawyer, Matt

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Speaker 1: Gates is also a lawyer, though that seemed more a

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Speaker 1: little more circuitous.

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Speaker 2: Who is the cabinet appointment who keeps you up at night?

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Speaker 4: Now you know.

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Speaker 7: That that's a hard one to choose. And this, this,

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Speaker 7: I think is the and I'm doing air quotes here.

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Speaker 7: The flood the zone with shit. Genius of all of this,

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Speaker 7: because you know, the notion of putting Peter Hegsyth in

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Speaker 7: charge of the Department of Defense keeps me up at night.

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Speaker 7: The idea that we would put a Russian asset like

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Speaker 7: Tlsea Gabbard in charge of the US intelligence community keeps

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Speaker 7: me up at night. The fact that you have a complete, demented,

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Speaker 7: deranged conspiracy theory nut job like Roberda F. Kennedy Junior

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Speaker 7: dismantling the Department of Health and Human Services. I mean

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Speaker 7: that one is not just absurd and dangerous, it's potentially deadly.

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Speaker 7: If we go back to pre vaccination days. We have

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Speaker 7: opened We've opened a Pandora's Box of medieval horrors here,

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Speaker 7: so you pick your horrors. And also, as people have noticed,

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Speaker 7: things are becoming more and more dangerous in the world,

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Speaker 7: and I think they will become even more dangerous between

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Speaker 7: now and January. And so that delta between what we

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Speaker 7: would hope the kinds of people we would hope would

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Speaker 7: be in charge of our intelligence agencies and the Department

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Speaker 7: of Defense of the United States of America and the

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Speaker 7: people that Donald Trump has put there is becoming wider

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Speaker 7: and wider so great that you know, down goes Matt Gates.

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Speaker 7: But we have this parade of grotesqueries and horribles in waiting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I think the one who really keeps me up

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Speaker 1: at night. I mean, I guess you're right, RFK Junior

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Speaker 1: has to be the one because we did just live

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Speaker 1: through a pandemic. By the way, we just lived through

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Speaker 1: a pandemic that Donald Trump, you know, clearly again it's

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Speaker 1: not fair to say that he killed people, but he

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Speaker 1: certainly was not good for public health. Right.

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Speaker 2: I think we can all agree on that A.

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Speaker 7: Million people died and it has been completely memory hold,

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Speaker 7: just completely memory hold.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a million people died.

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Speaker 1: So let's let's put RFK, who does not believe in

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Speaker 1: vaccines in charge of public health.

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Speaker 7: Let's put a guy with literal brainworms in charge of

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Speaker 7: deciding how to keep Americans safe from the next pandemic.

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Speaker 7: And there will be a next pandemic. I mean, this

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Speaker 7: is going to happen.

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Speaker 2: Oh, no question, because of the climate stuff.

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Speaker 7: Right. And that's not Donald Trump's fault, That's not RFK,

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Speaker 7: that's just the nature of things. The question.

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Speaker 2: It's Ronald Reagan's fault.

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Speaker 7: Yes, go on is how we handle it, how we

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Speaker 7: respond to it, whether or not we will we will

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Speaker 7: actually be intelligent and serious and sober, or whether or

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Speaker 7: not we have put one of the most dement I mean,

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Speaker 7: where do you even start with him? The fact that

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Speaker 7: he actually is out there saying that the first one

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Speaker 7: was a pandemic obviously planned by the Trump administration. Who

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Speaker 7: the freak knows what he's talking about.

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Speaker 1: By the way, though I shouldn't laugh, but I'm laughing

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Speaker 1: to keep keep from crying.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, I love these quotes that are now

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Speaker 7: surfacing about how you're saying, you know that the Trump

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Speaker 7: is hitler and you know.

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Speaker 2: Terrible, and that's good.

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Speaker 7: This is this is I think the pre brainworm RFK,

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Speaker 7: which is like, okay, you got it at one time

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Speaker 7: before your brain turned to tapioca pudding whatever it was, before.

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Speaker 1: The worm the brainworm had died. I think that was

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Speaker 1: part of it right there. I think the brainworm is

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Speaker 1: no longer a line.

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Speaker 7: I think the brain worman was killed by what it

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Speaker 7: was eating. I mean, I all know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to go out on Pete Hexth because

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Speaker 1: if this happens, he will direct the United States military

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Speaker 1: and he will be sending the message that it's okay

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Speaker 1: to have numor allegations at the very least of sexual

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Speaker 1: assaulted misconduct.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, the details of that police reporter are interesting to dad. Yeah,

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Speaker 7: did you see my newsletter today? I did the WWD

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Speaker 7: question mark not this FS Yeah, what would Jesus do?

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Speaker 1: Not this?

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Speaker 7: For fuck's sake? Okay, So here's an interesting dynamic though

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Speaker 7: in the whatever mar A Lago Oval office. The one

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Speaker 7: argument you cannot make to the president elect is, hey,

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Speaker 7: we can't put this man in charge of the Defense

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Speaker 7: Department because he's been credibly accused of rape.

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Speaker 2: That does not hold a lot of water to Trump.

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Speaker 7: Right, because basically you will elect a rapist who grabs

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Speaker 7: women by the pussy, and you know what, you are

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Speaker 7: not going to be able to convince him that it's

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Speaker 7: disqualifying to rape someone or grab somebody. So the only

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Speaker 7: thing you can say is, yo, the votes aren't there,

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Speaker 7: or this is a distraction.

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Speaker 1: I think the votes aren't there is probably all you

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Speaker 1: can say.

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Speaker 7: That's the only thing you can say. I think that

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Speaker 7: hag sith there's got to be a big question mark. Again, ironically,

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Speaker 7: not because he may have raped someone. And by again,

439
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 7: the details of these you know, clean yourself up and all.

440
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 5: Of that stuff.

441
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 7: Oh my god, not because of that, but you know,

442
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,359
Speaker 7: as the Wall Street Journal reports, the Trump transition team

443
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 7: was amazingly blindsided by this. Who knew that these things

444
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 7: like that would happen? When you basically say, we don't

445
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,199
Speaker 7: need FBI background, Yeah, we don't need to vet these people.

446
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, those cocks in the FBI.

447
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 7: Yeah, we don't mind that you rape that girl, but

448
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 7: you should have told us about it on your form.

449
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 1: Right, right, right, there's social justice warriors in the FBI

450
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 1: known for their liberalism. Yeah, I mean, we'll see, but

451
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 1: it continues. The House has this very slim majority. You've

452
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: got Mike Johnson in there. I'm wondering, the last time

453
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 1: Donald Trump was elected to the presidency, we were all

454
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: eight years better looking.

455
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 2: Now we are.

456
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: And I'm speaking about myself obviously, because I remember those

457
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: salad days. Is it being in my thirties? Now we

458
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 1: are all very old and exhausted. I'm curious, like Paul

459
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: Ryan had to lead the House and then he and

460
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 1: then he left the business altogether. Now we have Mike Johnson.

461
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,479
Speaker 1: Talk to me about the difference between Paul Ryan and

462
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: Mike Johnson.

463
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 7: I was just thinking about the salad days in my

464
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 7: early sixties back then. So well, Paul Ryanland was of

465
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 7: course much smarter than Mike Johnson, but he had a

466
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 7: much bigger majority, right, right, they had quite an edge there,

467
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 7: and so when you're talking about a two three four

468
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 7: vote margin, particularly when you've seen that clown show that

469
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 7: they've had, and then of course now they have vacancies,

470
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 7: so Matt Gates is actually a vacancy. So for a

471
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 7: few months it's going to be below two hundred and twenty.

472
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 7: So I mean, we you know, what could go wrong? Well,

473
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 7: you know they've been giving us the off Broadway version

474
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 7: of what could go wrong for the last two years.

475
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: So I do think that's worth watching a good line

476
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 1: today on television.

477
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to steal your line and no, no, I'll

478
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 2: let you use a birth.

479
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,719
Speaker 7: The other thing is that that right now everybody is

480
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 7: you know, they're all in you know, swinging around, you know,

481
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 7: VVAK and elon are swinging around their big dicks about

482
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 7: how much they're going to cut government spending. You're going

483
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 7: to need congressional approval, and so it's one thing to

484
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 7: put out, well, Assie, I don't think they quite understand

485
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 7: that all the things they're cutting, all of those spending programs,

486
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 7: and I'm certainly not going to say there's not wasteful spending.

487
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 7: There's a lot of wasteful spending. But every program exists

488
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 7: for a reason, and there is a constituency for every

489
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 7: single program. And once you step on some of those minefields,

490
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 7: you're going to find out that even some MAGA adjacent

491
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 7: congressmen are going to be very, very unlikely to vote

492
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 7: to cut I don't know, veterans' healthcare, for example, That

493
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 7: is just not going to happen. So it is going

494
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 7: to be extremely messy. They're going to have to have

495
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 7: real discipline and the kind of discipline that we have

496
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 7: come to know they rarely are able to exercise.

497
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: Charlie Sikes, will you please come back?

498
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 7: I will come back anytime. I mean, I am a

499
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 7: man without a podcast. I'm just sitting here in my

500
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 7: robe in front of this it's rather pathetically unused microphone.

501
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, yes, please come back. You are just the best,

502
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 2: and so.

503
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,880
Speaker 7: You're the only one who invites me, So I asked, Michael,

504
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 7: you are the best anytime.

505
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: Scott Perryman is the president of Democracy Forward. Welcome back

506
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: to Fast Politics, Sky.

507
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 8: Thanks for having me. Always get to chat with you.

508
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: We're delighted to have you. So now we are in

509
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: the dystopia. Donald Trump is about to become president for

510
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: the second time, thus creating a tension where the courts

511
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: are really the only thing that are going to protect

512
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: the American people. So can you talk us through what

513
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: that look like?

514
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 8: Absolutely, you know, And part of it is we have

515
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 8: a little bit of knowledge here because of his first administration.

516
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,959
Speaker 8: He engaged and his administration engaged in such lawless activity

517
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 8: that was designed to create chaos. It was harmful, but

518
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 8: fundamentally it was also against the law. And while the

519
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 8: Supreme Court, of course has a majority of justices come

520
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 8: from the conservative legal movement, and we have the far

521
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 8: right legal movement that has obviously been responsible for cases

522
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 8: like Dobbs and other things that have really shaped the court.

523
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 8: The types of activities that this administration is expected to

524
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 8: engage in are ones that I think even that court

525
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 8: will stop in some instances. And the more important thing

526
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 8: is that there are hundreds of federal courts across the

527
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 8: country with judges that will fairly interpret the law and

528
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 8: litigation is just going to be a huge piece of

529
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,239
Speaker 8: providing that check for the American people. So we can

530
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 8: talk specifically about kind of what the cases would look like.

531
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 8: But what we know in the last administration, the Trump

532
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 8: administration lost nearly eighty percent of the time in court

533
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 8: because of their you know, lawless activities. We intend, along

534
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 8: with a lot of other organizations, to be really making

535
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 8: sure that people and communities are represented in court moving forward.

536
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: Yes, so that is a really good point. Say that again,

537
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 1: what percentage of court cases did Donald Trump lose?

538
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 8: You know, there's different estimates, but it was approaching eighty percent,

539
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 8: and in the first year of his administration, I think

540
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,679
Speaker 8: it was around you know, seventy nine eighty percent.

541
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: So, like the Muslim ban, it's like big pieces of

542
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: quote unquote legislation, right.

543
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 8: The Muslim ban, of course, was able to be successfully

544
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 8: challenged in the lower courts once it finally got up

545
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 8: to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court did issue an

546
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,479
Speaker 8: upolled part of that at you know, part of that.

547
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 8: But the important thing is, like, let's just look at

548
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 8: what he did across the board. So they appointed and

549
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 8: this will sound familiar to you if you're watching and

550
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 8: following the news right. They would corrupt commissions. They would

551
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 8: appoint people from outside of government that were deeply tied

552
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 8: to industries or to special interests that they curried favor

553
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 8: with to commissions to try to shape the way the

554
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 8: federal government operates. And they would do that and did

555
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 8: that without complying with all of the transparency laws and

556
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 8: other laws that we have in this country about how

557
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 8: you do this. So they got sued on that a lot,

558
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 8: and we've shut down a range of corrupt commissions. They

559
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 8: sought to abruptly discontinue important federal funding funded bipartisan programs

560
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 8: in cities like Baltimore and in counties like King County, Seattle,

561
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 8: and we were able to sue and successfully restore those

562
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 8: funding and stop their conduct there. They sought to reverse

563
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 8: a lot of policies that were really important for working

564
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 8: Americans and working families, and we were able to stop those.

565
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 8: So I want to say, it's going to be a

566
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 8: tough fight, and I don't have rose colored glasses. This

567
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,239
Speaker 8: is really such a critical moment for the country and

568
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 8: it's going to take all of us doing our part.

569
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 8: But we do know if the past is prologue, that

570
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 8: the courts are going to be such a frontline in

571
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 8: this battle, and we are ready to go. The lawyers

572
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 8: at Democracy for the lawyers at so many other organizations,

573
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 8: we are geared up and ready to go to ensure

574
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 8: that if they break the law, that there is legal

575
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 8: action to challenge it.

576
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: Yes, what are we going to see as people that

577
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: is really easily addressed in the courts? For example, give

578
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: me the kind of things because Trump's going to do

579
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: it a.

580
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 2: Lot of stuff.

581
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: He's got like numerous executive orders all lined up to

582
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: start on day one. So explain to us what sort

583
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: of the stuff that's going to be easier to challenge,

584
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: and then this stuff is going to be harder to challenge.

585
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, look, I think there's a lot of

586
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 8: we don't know entirely how they're going to do things right,

587
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 8: but we know, for instance, when they say they're going

588
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 8: to engage in mass deportations, You've seen the ACLU out

589
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 8: there talking about what those challenges will look like swiftly

590
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 8: and on day one. I'm not saying those are easy,

591
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 8: but I'm saying that there will be swift legal challenges.

592
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 8: We've seen, you know, Elon Musk and others say that

593
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 8: they're going to remake the way the American government works,

594
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 8: and Trump has said that he's going to create some

595
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 8: type of commission or department to do that. The things

596
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 8: that I've seen suggest that they're not going to be

597
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 8: following the law when they create these commissions. And there's

598
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 8: a lot of legal remedies that will be utilized. If

599
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 8: they want to come after the civil service and engage

600
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 8: in arbitrary mass firings of the civil service, which is

601
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 8: what they've said that they want to do, there are

602
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 8: legal remedies there reversing the last administration. They sought to

603
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 8: just reverse a range of policies without going through the

604
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,959
Speaker 8: process that they had to go through. And so I just,

605
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 8: you know, I think that this is not going to

606
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 8: be an easy path because there's so much but you know,

607
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 8: we're made to do hard things the courts right now

608
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 8: because of the balance in Congress. The courts really are

609
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 8: the tool at the federal level as well as I

610
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 8: think being clear and you and I talked a lot

611
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 8: about Project twenty twenty five before the election, and we're

612
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 8: now seeing him accelerate try to accelerate Project twenty twenty

613
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 8: five now that the election has been called for him.

614
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 8: You know, this is a president elect that ran by

615
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 8: telling the American people that he didn't know anything about

616
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 8: Project twenty twenty five and sought to distance himself from

617
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 8: all of these unpopular, you know, these unpopular policies. And

618
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 8: so I do think that there's going to also be

619
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 8: a role for the American people to really hold him

620
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 8: to account. But also they're members of Congress to accounts

621
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 8: when these Project twenty twenty five policies start rolling through,

622
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 8: to say, wait a second, you know, this is not

623
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 8: actually what the American people voted for. In fact, you know,

624
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 8: he sought to this is himself he.

625
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: Said, I have nothing to do for Ragic twenty twenty five.

626
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: And then, by the way, let's talk about Russ's voice.

627
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 8: Well, I mean, look, either they're not slowing down at

628
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 8: all to seek to really accelerate Project twenty twenty five.

629
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 8: Russ was one of the architects of this entire extreme agenda,

630
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 8: which again, in poll after poll, there was a lot

631
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 8: of disputes over polls. Guess where there wasn't disputes over polls.

632
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 8: In poll after poll, conservatives, liberals, and independents all broadly

633
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 8: rejected Project twenty twenty five on the issues. But now

634
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 8: they're going to seek to install Russ Voyd into the

635
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 8: administration and he will have to be confirmed by the Senate,

636
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 8: and I think that's going to be really important for

637
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 8: Americans to make their voices heard in those confirmation battles,

638
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 8: especially given them mis leading nature of the campaign where

639
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 8: they really disavowed Project twenty twenty five. But the bottom

640
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 8: line is, we also have that blueprint for over a

641
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 8: year because they published it. We know what their plan is,

642
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 8: and we know how to argue and we know how

643
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 8: to bring cases against it because a number of the

644
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 8: things that they are proposing are just flatly unlawful, and

645
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 8: we're going to have to rely on our courts to

646
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 8: do the right thing too. And that's really important that

647
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 8: people are making sure that we're clear that we expect

648
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 8: our courts to protect the rights of the American people,

649
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 8: to protect our democratic institutions, and that is what they

650
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 8: are here to do, and they're going to have to

651
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 8: stand up to you know, stand up and do that,

652
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 8: which we saw in many instances last time that happened.

653
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: So I'm wondering if you Ross Vointe is being put

654
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: in charge of budget. Yeah, will you explain why that

655
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: is and what he has the opportunity to do there?

656
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 8: Well, the Office of Management and Budget is really just

657
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 8: like such a core office that really seeks and is

658
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 8: able to help define the way the federal government operates

659
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 8: across agencies, because it's really an agency that is cross cutting.

660
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 8: This is, unfortunately for the American people, the type of

661
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 8: position that will have a lot of influence over multiple policies.

662
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: By controlling budget, he will have a certain sort of

663
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: ability to cut off the finances.

664
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 8: Right well, and what they've suggested is that this position

665
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 8: would be the one that would seek to impose what

666
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 8: is known as Schedule F to seek to reclassify our

667
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 8: federal workers to make them more political, to make you know,

668
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 8: reclassify civil servants as political appointees, to then enable the

669
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 8: president to engage in mass firings. And then also this

670
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,319
Speaker 8: office potentially could seek, through much of that work, to

671
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 8: undermine some of the more autonomous organizations like the consumer

672
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 8: financial Protection Bureaus. So now that's what they say they're

673
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 8: going to do again, I will just say like there

674
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 8: is a broad and diverse effort, and I would encourage

675
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 8: our listeners to go to democracy twenty twenty five dot org,

676
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 8: where you can see so many of the organizations and

677
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 8: groups that are lined up to really help represent the

678
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 8: American people. When these agencies engage in that, these offices

679
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 8: engage in unlawful activity to that is what they you know,

680
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 8: attacking our civil service and our ability of government to

681
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 8: deliver for people has been a censure piece of Project

682
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 8: twenty twenty five. And so you know, if the Senate

683
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 8: were to confirm us, you would really see an opportunity

684
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 8: that he would have to accelerate or seek to accelerate,

685
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 8: many of the harmful things in that policy.

686
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is really scary.

687
00:35:58,520 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 4: It is.

688
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 8: It's scary, but it should also be motivating. Trump and

689
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 8: the GOP have been saying they have this mandate. I

690
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 8: don't see that. What I saw in the election was

691
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 8: deep red Missouri vote for abortion access and people in Florida,

692
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 8: more people in Florida voting for the ballot initiative than

693
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 8: if I have my figures right, then they voted for

694
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 8: Donald Trump or Rond de Santis the last time, and

695
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 8: people voting for a candidate in President elect Trump that

696
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 8: blatantly throughout the campaign trail thought to deceive people about

697
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 8: his connections to these very people and to these very policies,

698
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 8: And so I think there's just a real moment for

699
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 8: both those of us that work in the courts, but

700
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 8: also for the American people and for those that are

701
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,760
Speaker 8: going to be going into Congress to check this extremism

702
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 8: by staying vigilant and pushing forward. And so it is

703
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 8: very scary, but there's not a mandate for this extremism.

704
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm hoping you could talk about how pushing back

705
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 1: in the court it's sort of the only way to

706
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 1: stop a lot of this stuff, right because Democrats don't

707
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: control any of the federal branches.

708
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 8: Yes, and I think this is important to understand that

709
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 8: the administration is poised to engage in a range of

710
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 8: harmful activities, many of which are of those activities will

711
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 8: have legal problems we can sue with the ultimate goal

712
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 8: of stopping that harm for people in communities, and that

713
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 8: is always the ultimate goal. And President Biden has appointed

714
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 8: more than two hundred and twenty pro democracy judges. I

715
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 8: believe at the end of this administration, if you look

716
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 8: across the federal judiciary that you will see that the

717
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 8: majority of those lower court judges have been appointed by

718
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 8: pro democracy presidents. And I will also tell you that

719
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 8: our team, as well as other teams, win in front

720
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 8: of judges, including judges that were appointed by former President

721
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 8: Trump and more conservative presidents. So I will say the

722
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 8: courts remain a hugely important tool to stop some of

723
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 8: this behavior. But more than that, litigation has a way

724
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 8: of helping change behavior, even if you disregard how a

725
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 8: court rules right, forcing people to every time they seek

726
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 8: to harm the American people and seek to do so

727
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,439
Speaker 8: outside the bounds of the law, to have to show

728
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 8: up in court and defend that, and to defend that publicly,

729
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 8: for the public to be aware of those challenges, that

730
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 8: is a critical, critical tool to really forcing the sort

731
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 8: of extreme administration to account. And so there's really important

732
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 8: impact beyond just how a judge rules. In the last administration,

733
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 8: last Trump administration, let me give you one example, Trump

734
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 8: created the Pence Cobalt Voter Commission, which was seeking to

735
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 8: undermine votes, are seeking votes right exactly because he didn't

736
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 8: like the popular vote count. Notice that no one's dispute,

737
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 8: Notice that no one's disputing anything now, but he didn't

738
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 8: like the popular vote count. Them and a range of

739
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 8: organizations including ours. I was one of the lawyers who

740
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,320
Speaker 8: did this, but a range of organizations representing people in

741
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 8: communities suit and in the face of that avalanche of litigation,

742
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 8: the administration actually just abandoned their plans of the Commission.

743
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,280
Speaker 8: Now I'm not again, I don't have rose colored glasses,

744
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 8: and I think that they're going to seek to do

745
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 8: a range of very harmful things and are determined to

746
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 8: do that. But we have seen time and again that

747
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 8: even apart from how courts are rolling, litigation is important

748
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 8: to force that there be some costs when extreme lawmakers

749
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 8: are seeking to undermine the rights and privileges and well

750
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 8: being the American people. And that's what we're committed to doing,

751
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 8: and that's what hundreds of organizations are committed to doing.

752
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you are faced with this because you're in the

753
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: court and your lawyer and your organization is faced with this.

754
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 2: It is very stressful.

755
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: Give us a two second tip because a lot of

756
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: people who listen to those feel things the way that

757
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: I feel things and the way that you feel things, like,

758
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: we really take this personally, we really care, which is

759
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 1: I always say, like the worst thing about.

760
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 2: Me is I believe everything I see on television.

761
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 1: So like, I actually I actually like think this is

762
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 1: a real crisis.

763
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: I don't think this is a game.

764
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 8: I think we're a huge crisis.

765
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to see if our institutions hold or not.

766
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,760
Speaker 1: And I think it's a real fifty to fifty question.

767
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: And the best thing going for us is that Trump

768
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 1: is erratic, and you know, he's nominating people who are

769
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: completely unreasonable. Why do you worry about Pam Bondi because

770
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,399
Speaker 1: she is not as problematic as Matt Gates, but she's

771
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 1: still very problematic.

772
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 8: Well, I worry about so many of the people, and

773
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,399
Speaker 8: Bondi is one. These are people that have made their

774
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 8: careers not engaging in the you know, just amazing opportunity

775
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 8: that we all have as people to help protect people's rights,

776
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 8: to ensure that our government is actually working for people

777
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 8: and delivering the things that we need. But this is

778
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 8: someone that's long been associated with a you know, a

779
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 8: quite extreme age, Inda, And so I think that you know,

780
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 8: we're the Department of Justice holds and just an incredibly

781
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 8: important role in American society and then protecting our rights.

782
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 8: And when you look at Project twenty twenty five, you

783
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 8: see that there are a range of plans that this

784
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 8: incoming administration has for perverting that institution and seeking to

785
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 8: weaponize it against the American people. I haven't seen evidence that,

786
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 8: and I'm an open minded person, so I'm going to

787
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 8: be listening and watching in the days ahead. But I

788
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 8: hadn't seen evidence that she is the type of person

789
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 8: that would buck that political and ideological pressure that we

790
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 8: see and know that the incoming administration would provide. And

791
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 8: so the question is will she be an accomplice and

792
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 8: seeking to accelerate some of the most harmful policies in

793
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 8: Project T only twenty five, or would she be a

794
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 8: good steward of the Department of Justice. I don't have

795
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 8: evidence to show me it to suggests that she would

796
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 8: be a good steward of that, but we will wait

797
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 8: at watch. But I think it's concerting when you look

798
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 8: at what they want to do to that institution, and

799
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 8: I think it's high concerning that. Like they've also sought

800
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 8: to prevent the release of information about Matt Gates, which

801
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 8: is important for American people to know and understand.

802
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 2: And I think that's a really good point.

803
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: And I think that the one bright spot here is

804
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 1: that you can absolutely bully.

805
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 2: These people into doing the right.

806
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 1: Thing if you're able to get their attention, and it's

807
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: going to be four fucking years of.

808
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,720
Speaker 8: That, and we saw in the campaign. I don't think

809
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 8: that it was a great day for Trump and his

810
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 8: associates when they had to come out and disavow and

811
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 8: distance themselves from Project twenty twenty five. I think it's

812
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 8: deceptive and it's consistent with this pattern of conduct we

813
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 8: see from him. But really it became such a problem

814
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 8: because the vast majority of American people in this country

815
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 8: reject that extremism and it is going to be incumbent

816
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 8: up on all of us. Yes, there's a Republican majority

817
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 8: in the Senate that there are senators that will be

818
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 8: held to account in two years.

819
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: Tom Tillis in North Carolina.

820
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 8: Wow, here's an old war story. You remember in the

821
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,439
Speaker 8: first early days of the Trump administration the last time

822
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 8: that Trumps was hell bent on repealing the Affordable Care

823
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 8: Act and thought they had the majority in Congress to

824
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 8: do that. And I will tell yeah, you know, many

825
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 8: of us there would have been legal problems with some

826
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 8: of the implications of that, and so there, you know,

827
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 8: there was a court strategy there, but we never had

828
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 8: to go to court because Congress ultimately did not deliver

829
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 8: on what President Trump wanted them to do, because the

830
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 8: American people pushed back. And that is the kind of

831
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 8: retail level advocacy It is going to be required to

832
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 8: save some of the institutions in our country in order

833
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 8: to ensure that at some point we can be back

834
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 8: on the track of moving forward as opposed to just

835
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 8: preventing a backslide.

836
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 2: Yep, yes, yes, yes, But.

837
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 8: For your listeners, I think, like I know, we're all scared,

838
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 8: and everybody is. You know, it's just a highly emotional situation,

839
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 8: and we're moving into the holidays, but there is a

840
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 8: lot we can do, and we just have to remember

841
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 8: that we cannot give up our own power. And so

842
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 8: lawyers are going to be doing that every single day

843
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 8: on behalf of people in communities that people can do

844
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 8: that too. And these extremists do not get to write

845
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 8: the last chapter or the next chapter of what happens

846
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 8: in this country. The American people do. And it is

847
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 8: up to all of us to help galvanize people. And

848
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 8: there's a lot of disaffected people who our institutions haven't

849
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 8: delivered for, and our government hasn't delivered for and I

850
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 8: think you see set in the voting patterns, and it's

851
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,880
Speaker 8: time to show up and do real things and to

852
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 8: motivate people to engage in that work, to show up

853
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 8: and do the real things. And that's what we're going

854
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 8: to really be focused on.

855
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, thank you, Please come back.

856
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 8: Thanks Molly a moment, Jesse Cannon, my Jen Fast.

857
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 3: One of the things that is just so sad that

858
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 3: we kind of knew would happen if mister Trump got

859
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,399
Speaker 3: re elected is well, the racists, the Nazis, the clan

860
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 3: type people they will be, and we're seeing it play out.

861
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 4: What are you see in here?

862
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 2: I did not see it coming. Oh boy, oh a

863
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 2: group of neil. But if you can't laugh about Nazis,

864
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,280
Speaker 2: who can you laugh about? Neo Nazi groups?

865
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: Scattered flyers across lawns and doorsteps in three Waterloo, Iowa

866
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: neighborhoods just before veterans state, the Handouds offered a chilling

867
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: assessment of the group's proximity in capital letters, we are

868
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 1: your neighbors. We are the random strangers holding the door

869
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,879
Speaker 1: open for you. We are everywhere. I'm not sure they are.

870
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 1: A week later, a dozen people march through with parts

871
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: of Columbus, Ohio that are known for arts and culture,

872
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: or carrying Nazi flags, using it bullhorn to shout racist

873
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: slurs against Jews and people of color. You'll notice they

874
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: also wore masks.

875
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 2: You know why they.

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Speaker 4: Wore masks, Please tell me?

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00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: Because they were scared of being identified.

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00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: And that, my friends, is why if you're scared of

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Speaker 1: being identified, perhaps you shouldn't be doing it.

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Speaker 2: It's a good rule for life. I think that's it.

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Speaker 1: For this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday,

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00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make

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00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,

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00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

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00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.